# Special Planning Committee Meeting - October 5, 2009 > Auto-transcribed civic record · October 5, 2009 - **Permalink**: https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/meeting/1052 - **Source video**: https://lfucg.granicus.com/player/clip/1052?view_id=14&redirect=true - **Date**: 2009-10-05 - **Last revised**: July 17, 2026 - **Length**: 16,548 words > ⚠️ **Auto-generated content.** Audio from the official Granicus video was auto-transcribed with OpenAI's open-source Whisper large-v3-turbo model, run locally by The Lexington Times. Structured facts were extracted with GPT-4o; the narrative summary was written by Anthropic Claude. Verbatim wording may contain errors. See [methodology](https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/about/methodology) or [report a correction](mailto:editor@lexingtonky.news). --- ## Meeting Overview The Special Planning Committee met on October 5, 2009, at 1:00 p.m., with Linda Gorton presiding. The committee convened for an informational session focused on public comment regarding Student Housing Task Force Recommendations. During the meeting, the committee heard 24 public comments on this single agenda item. No motions were voted on during this session, which was structured primarily to gather input from the public on the task force's recommendations. ## Attendance The following 27 individuals were present at the meeting on October 5, 2009: - John Roberts - Edda Mae Sills - Bill Sills - Ike Lawrence - Tommy Cunningham - Chandler Lyles - Scotty Stutz - Stephen Marshall - Robert Keston - Jennifer Nichols-Leinbach - Mark Wallace - Deborah Ball - Kate Savage - Anne-Marie Stamatiotis - Ryan Smith - Lori Sills - Donna Maupin - Katie Neal - Dawn Forey - Micah Poston - Robin Waller - John Cole - John Bernal - Mark Barker - Steve Keston - Nick Such - Amy Clark No attendees were recorded as absent or late. ## Public Comment The meeting included 24 public speakers addressing the Student Housing Task Force recommendations, with opinions sharply divided on proposed density limits, rental licensing, and enforcement measures. **Opposition to Density Limits and Licensing** Multiple speakers opposed the task force's core recommendations. John Roberts [00:10:18] argued that limiting rental units to three unrelated individuals is unconstitutional and impractical. Mark Wallace [00:40:25] criticized the proposal to limit students to every third unit as unworkable, emphasizing rising demand for student housing near campus. Jennifer Nichols-Leinbach [00:38:14], representing the Lexington Apartment Association, warned that rental licensing would delay move-ins and harm the leasing industry. John Cole [00:22:56], a real estate veteran, dismissed the task force's proposals as impractical and warned of unintended consequences. **Constitutional and Economic Concerns** Tommy Cunningham [00:23:25], a PhD student, expressed concern that warrantless inspections violate Fourth and Fourteenth Amendment rights and could lead to costly lawsuits. Scotty Stutz [00:28:06] argued that removing students from neighborhoods would harm property values. Dawn Forey [01:14:46], representing a private landlord, warned that new regulations would increase costs for tenants and threaten business viability. Steve Keston [01:31:02] cautioned that new fees and taxes would bankrupt landlords. **Support for Task Force and Enforcement** Anne-Marie Stamatiotis [00:56:44] supported the task force's recommendations, citing neighborhood degradation and unchecked student density. Mark Barker [01:29:25] supported inspections to enforce existing laws, arguing current enforcement is ineffective. Amy Clark [01:36:37] supported mandatory rental licensing with distinctions for different property types. **Alternative Approaches** Ike Lawrence [00:16:21] advocated for inviting University of Kentucky leadership to address housing issues directly. John Bernal [01:26:10] urged adoption of the Ohio State Plan, arguing current laws are sufficient. Ryan Smith [00:59:43], UK Student Body President, warned the proposal would increase rents and worsen traffic, calling for better collaboration. Nick Such [01:34:27] urged a traffic study before implementing changes. Lori Sills [01:02:24] called for a new, inclusive task force with student leadership and business input. ## Contested Items The October 5, 2009 meeting featured three significant areas of disagreement among participants. **Student Housing Density Limits** A major point of contention was a proposal to limit student density in rental units to either three students per unit or one student in every three units. Public comment revealed substantial opposition to this approach. Speakers raised constitutional concerns about the proposal, argued it would cause economic harm, and questioned its practical feasibility. The community opposition centered on whether such restrictions were legally sound and economically viable. **Rental Licensing and Inspections** Heated debate emerged over the proposed mandatory licensing and inspection system for rental properties. Disagreement focused on whether such a program would be effective in addressing housing issues or would instead prove overly burdensome. Landlords warned that mandatory licensing and inspections would cause financial harm to property owners. Conversely, residents advocated for stronger enforcement mechanisms, arguing that more rigorous oversight was necessary. The core dispute reflected differing views on whether regulatory requirements would improve housing conditions or create undue economic burden. **University of Kentucky Involvement** A procedural dispute arose regarding the University of Kentucky's participation in addressing student housing issues. Several speakers criticized the university for its minimal involvement in the task force process. These critics called for university leadership to take a more active role and participate directly in collaborative efforts to address the student housing situation. The disagreement centered on whether the university bore responsibility for engaging with the community and whether its leadership presence was essential to finding workable solutions. ## Public Comment on Student Housing Task Force Recommendations The Special Planning Committee held a public hearing on October 5, 2009, to receive comments on the Student Housing Task Force's recommendations [timestamp: 00:06:30]. The proposals under consideration included density limits, rental licensing, and inspection requirements for student housing. The hearing drew a diverse group of speakers representing multiple perspectives on the recommendations: **Speakers and Positions** The following individuals provided public comment: John Roberts, Ike Lawrence, Tommy Cunningham, Stephen Marshall, Robert Keston, Jennifer Nichols-Leinbach, Mark Wallace, Deborah Ball, Kate Savage, Anne-Marie Stamatiotis, Ryan Smith, Lori Sills, Donna Maupin, Katie Neal, Dawn Forey, Micah Poston, Robin Waller, John Cole, John Bernal, Mark Barker, Steve Keston, Nick Such, and Amy Clark. **Range of Views** The public comment reflected a wide range of perspectives on the Task Force recommendations. Some speakers expressed strong opposition to the proposals, while others voiced support for the recommendations. The comments addressed the key policy areas under consideration, including density limits for student housing, rental licensing requirements, and inspection procedures. **Outcome** The hearing was informational in nature, allowing the Committee to receive public input on the Student Housing Task Force recommendations before any formal action. No votes or decisions were made during this agenda item. --- ## Full transcript Music Thank you. guitar solo All right. Today is October the 5th, and it's 1 o'clock, and we do have a quorum for Planning Committee. I'm Council Member Linda Gorton, and for those of you who were here before for our previous meeting, some of this will be a repeat, but we're here today in a special meeting to hear from the public about the proposals which came out of the Student Housing Task Force. And we have a few rules to the speaking here. If you spoke at the previous meeting, we do not want to hear from you again. That sounds harsh. But we have a lot of people who signed up who didn't have an opportunity to speak. So if you spoke before, please do not get up to speak again, and we'll try to work our way through the list that we have. And then if you don't have an opportunity to speak today, we are going to take e-mail comments, which Mr. Southers will distribute to all members of the committee. And his e-mail address, I think some of you may have picked up the letter about this, is jsouther, J-S-O-U-T-H-E-R, at lfucg.com, and he will be certain that all the members of our committee get a copy of your comments. I'm hopeful that we can work through everyone today. So as I call your name from the sign-up sheet from the last meeting, I'd please like you to give your name and address for the record because this is televised and recorded and you'll have three minutes to speak and if you will please try to say something new and different we like new and different and with that I will ask is there any other comment from council members about the speaking and what I've just said And so I will stop you at three minutes, and I'll repeat Jerry Souther's email at the end of the meeting. So first up today is John Roberts, and then Taylor Watson and Clark Hocker. Welcome. Those two individuals could not be here today, and they are signed up. Okay, we'll go right down the list. Could they yield me their minutes? Are they here? No. No, you have to be here to yield your minutes. Then Edda Mae Sills and Bill Sills are here, and they yield their minutes to me. Where are Edda Mae and Bill? Can you stand up, please? Now, did you – I seem to remember that – Here they are. Okay. Okay. You're signed up from today's list, and you did not speak or yield minutes last time. Okay. Very good. So that gives you nine minutes, John. Thank you. So thank you very much. I'm John Roberts. I live at 3325 Lansdowne Drive, Lexington. Mrs. Gordon, members of the Council. I am speaking today against the recommendations being made by the Student Housing Task Force. We may never be able to recover from the recommendations if enacted that would change the landscape of student housing. We do, why do we allow a few individuals who cause most of the problems change the way we all operate? Money that is collected from the charges made for repairs that the city orders to be done should be put back into the code enforcement budget. The recommendations that there be only three unrelated individuals living in a rental unit is simply ridiculous. In my opinion, it will be ruled unconstitutional. The way to go on this issue is to use square feet. It has been done in several other cities. The number of square feet in a house or apartment should determine how many individuals live there. 114 Westwood Drive, a house my wife and I own, was originally built with four bedrooms and has never had an addition. The suggestion that I could only rent the house to three people is simply ridiculous. That is part of the Penn State plan. Dr. Stevens has stated in the opinion piece in the Herald-Leader recently that the units that are occupied as rental units will continue to operate as they are grandfathered. When do they discontinue from being rental units? If you try to sell a house that cannot be used for rental housing, what kind of price will you get? I would say that it would be lower. If students move out and one stays, then two or more move in, is the real unit ever vacant? If one person is working and taking a semester off, is he still a student? We have a lot of questions which the recommendations of the task force do not address. We now pay a license fee, net profits tax, and the task force is recommending, in addition to those two, that we pay for the proposed cost of an inspection and a re-inspection if needed, plus a rental licensing fee. That is too much in fees and taxes. I appreciate your response to my plea that the garbage tax was too high. The council outlawed parking on gravel, which is porous, and required pavement, which is non-porous, was ill-advised. The non-porous surfaced, if not controlled, will cause more runoff in the area. The recommendation that every third house is a rental is unworkable. I support the Officer Keith Gaines' recommendation for resolving the U.K. student housing problems. Thank you. I yield my remaining time to the next speaker. Thank you, Mr. Roberts. And just to remind you, any applause will cut into our talk time. A point of order, if I can. I would recommend that someone from the other side be allowed to offer rebuttal to Mr. Muser's recommendations. He spoke for 25 minutes during the last session, and I believe that the other side should have an equal amount of time. Well, this, I appreciate your opinion on that. This isn't a zone change. The planning committee last meeting heard the report from the Student Housing Task Force, which he chaired. So now we're here today to hear comments from the public. He spoke, and there are people here that have a different approach. Well, I'm hoping that we get to all these. And they were on the task force. Okay, thank you so much. Next is, let's see, Clayton Campbell, are you here? Cassandra Harden, Leslie Hammond, in that order? No? Nicholas Cutlin, and I apologize if I mispronounce names. Ike Lawrence, Greg Keyes, K-Y-E-S. Is Ike here? Okay. Any of those folks I named, if you're here, please cue up. Ike looks like you're next. And then Lauren Gianuzzi, Alex Hardin, and Ashley Hockney will be next if they're here. Welcome. Ike Lawrence, 221 Clinton Road. Madam Chair and members of Council, my name is Ike Lawrence. First of all, I want to thank and honor those young men and women who are eligible here today for fighting for our First Amendment right to be present here today at this microphone. I will be handing out some things that I believe you've already been emailed, but these are extra handouts in case you didn't get it or you want to see it again. And this is a direct response in answering Mr. Roberts' question. As a town commissioner, I have answered the task force report, even though I wasn't on the task force. and closes my response as a town and gown commissioner, basically as a town commissioner, to the Student Housing Task Force report where I point out at least 50 relevant facts that are omitted from the report. Oh, by the way, I meant to say, if I'd stop a second, I have three extra minutes from Scott Fielder, so if you'd recognize his three minutes, please. Scott, will you please stand up? And you've given your three minutes to him. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Sorry. Also here in this is this summer's newspaper article that says Penn State is the number one party school out of 371 colleges, thereby validating that institutional moist campuses make for a dry party and natural owner-occupied neighborhoods. The most glaring item between these two reports, Mr. Moyes' report and my report, is the cost to implement it. The task force report costs hundreds of millions of dollars to implement for the city to buy up property via a land grant, land trust, survive court challenges of taking a property via downzoning to owner-occupied, called grandfathering, and moving students away from the university via mandatory biannual inspection and three adult bedroom limits. Current consumer tenant and parental free eyeballs, along with targeted code enforcement, are still the best way and the cheapest way for safe housing, just like you own your own home. My report, on the other hand, costs just 50 cents or two quarters. This loose change is in honor of Dave Cooper, who, enviously to all of us, has no cell phone. Dave is Elizabeth Street's own Don Quixote in a nice way, who can't be here today as he has more serious mountainous windmills of change to stand up for our next generation. These two quarters from me represent the two phone calls that need to be made by either the mayor or vice mayor, or anybody else who wants to take charge, to the U.K. Administration Building and to Donnemire Farm to invite Dr. Todd and Mrs. Ball to this town and gown microphone to find out publicly for the first time why they don't socially provide for the critical mass of their students, why they have a dry fraternity policy when no other state or SEC school has such a policy, and why they keep knocking down older fraternity houses with no plans that they are ever going to build a new fraternity park. They have consistently broken their promise from this 10-year-ago promise that they made. My experience with all other town and gown universities is strong home ownership naturally occurs around the perimeter of a university when the university takes the stand that it is their duty and moral obligation to institutionally manage and control their dances and parties in well-kept fraternities or other outbuildings so that it never ends up in our neighborhood. To this end, neighborhood leaders, landlords, and students are united as one as to the source of the problem. Should Mrs. Ball or Dr. Todd ever have a chance to come to the microphone with only one phone call, we fiscal conservatives in the age of Obama gladly say, keep the change. Thank you, Mr. Lawrence. I want to confirm, is Clayton Campbell here or Cassandra Harden? Leslie Hammond? Nicholas Cutland from 695 Winnie Street? Greg Kyes? Lauren Genuzzi? Alex Hardin, Ashley Hockney, Brian R-U-C-K-E-S. I don't think anyone's downstairs since we have C-S-U-P here. William, perhaps PASEO or PASIC from Holmes Hall, Dave Love or Dave Lone, Rhodes Smith Reese Bramall Kelsey Hayes Tom Cunningham Well, please make your way to the podium. Are you Tom? All right. And after Tom is Chandler, L-Y-L-E-S and Scotty Stutz. So welcome. Hi, thank you. Will anybody like to yield me? Name and address first, please. Tommy Cunningham, 915 Journal Avenue. Would anybody like to yield me their three minutes if they weren't planning on speaking? Were you signed up at the last meeting? Okay. And I'll start talking faster than anticipated. Pardon me? Will anybody yield? No? I'm opposed to the recommendation. Do you need more than three minutes? Probably four, you know. Well, some of these folks who signed up, is there anybody here who was signed up last meeting who wants to give him some time? It must be midterms. Okay. It is very tough timing. Do you want to go ahead and start? And then there may be someone stand up later who wants to give you another minute or two. I just want to thank the council for giving me an excuse not to write my dissertation today. You know, I thank you a lot for that. I'd like to first address you as a student. I've attended the University of Kentucky for the last eight years, first as an undergrad, and now I'll be receiving my Ph.D. this year. So I've gone through the whole gauntlet of different city council members I follow pretty regularly. I've been a registered voter for the last eight years here in Lexington. but I can't help but stand up and talk when I see that I think my Fourth Amendment and 14th Amendment rights might be violated with some of these recommendations that are in this proposal. I don't have anything to hide in my house as a homeowner in 915 Journal Avenue, but I don't like the idea of a code enforcement agent coming in and checking out my property and my roommate's belongings without a warrant. I'm not a law student, but I think that goes against search and seizure laws. That's not for me to decide. My lawyer, my simple petty bourgeois lawyer, costs $352 an hour. If some of these were to be enacted and somebody comes into the house, that's how much it's going to cost for me to defend my rights as a student. I can only imagine how much the bourgeois lawyers in Chevy Chase area would cost the city to defend their position on why they thought it was okay for somebody to enter somebody's house without a warrant. That's just something that as a taxpayer and a registered voter, I do not want to see the city of Lexington set themselves up for a large lawsuit that might come in about five years if these recommendations are enacted. Secondly, I read the proposal last time we were here, and I read the entire proposal thinking that Dr. David Stevens was an economist, a professor that knows a lot about planning commissions and zoning. It turns out he's actually in my dissertation. He's cited for knowing what the navicular bone does during pronation of the foot. But I don't think he's an economist. So I think these recommendations have to be taken with a grain of salt. If we're going to move students away from campus, maybe down Tate's Creek, if we need a sidewalk to go down Tate's Creek, that might be where he comes into play to give us a trail of tears to them. We can't just take a student body and displace them. This has gone throughout history. Replace student with any other ethnic group in the country or in Europe. it doesn't bode well. Trail of tears. If you just made a reservation for all the students, how would that go over? You can have a tailgating night of broken glass. Just round us up and ship us out. That's not the way to go. These recommendations would be taken with a grain of salt. Thank you very much. Thank you. Next is Chandler Lyles. or are you signed up from the last meeting we're trying to hear from everyone who signed up at the last meeting to be fair and then did you sign up today so when we get to that if you don't mind okay are you signed up from the last meeting oh okay you were going to be next so we're going to give you two minutes. There you go. Scotty Stutz gave you one minute. I do want to address you as a homeowner in that area. You've all seen the plans for the Elizabeth section of town. UK is noticeably silent on this issue. They have a conflict of interest in this area of town. They will eminent domain these houses, the permanent residents' houses, within three to five years. I do not want to see my market value of my house drop in that time by kicking out students. The only thing that has kept the market value insulated in this recession. Trash and debris do not bring down the house values in this area. The only thing that keeps up house values are students. It's best to keep them here, hold on to your property, so when UK comes in eminent domains, we at least have some money to, I don't know, maybe pay off my student loans I've accrued over the last eight years. And I won't take up any more of your time. Thank you. Thank you very much. Scottie, excuse me, Kathy King, are you here? Scottie Stutz, you have two minutes. Scottie Stutz, address 438 and a half Woodland Avenue. I'll be as short to the point as possible. I'm a second year student at the University of Kentucky. I'm a first time living very close to off campus. I'll admit that students do get a little rowdy, but any group of people get rowdy, and some people won't like other groups. Like, I'm pretty sure that the Ku Klux Klan went like black people living next to them, or Hitler did not like the Jews living next to him. We have our culture, which involves partying, and we should be, as long as we don't get too reckless, too reckless, we should be allowed to do it. I'm honest. And then back to the student. I live extremely close to the library. I spend a majority of my time at the library during the week. So pushing me further off campus would affect my studies. I lived on Tades Creek and Man of War last semester and I was late to class countless times because of car accidents on Tades Creek Road. And then, oh crap. All right. And I think we'd have a lot more students today if it wasn't for midterms right now. And I think another thing that would help so we can hear from the students that want to speak is have an evening meeting. And I'm going to rest my case here and have a nice day and thank you for hearing from me. Thank you very much. We did try to schedule an evening meeting and we could not get as many planning committee members here. So Alan Jackson and then Brenda from 2042 Rambler Road are either of you here. I'm sorry, I apologize. I don't know what your last name is. Susan Strickland from Lindhurst. Zaheer Siamwala from Hughlet Taylor Hundley Shelby Schott Michael Beaven Jeff Williamson Are any of you here? Sandra Evans Stephen from 2909 Summerfield Ah, welcome And are you Stephen? Okay, and following you will be Andrea Pat Salidas And then Katie Wilkerson Welcome Thank you Stephen Marshall, 2909 Summerfield Drive And I just wanted to hit on the density limits proposal. One of our first speakers at the last meeting noted that we need to remember we're a university community. And to the extent that we can allow the students to thrive and have off-campus residences, if we can facilitate that, Lexington is going to win. On its face, the density limits proposal seeks to limit the options for students off campus. We know that UK is never going to house all of their students. We know that UK student population is going to grow. We know that. There has to be off-campus options for students to live. The density limits proposal sends a message of we don't want you here. Now I know that the proponents of the proposal will say, look, housing that is already tagged for students gets to stay. It's grandfathered in. But the fact of the matter is only students are the ones that are being targeted by this legislation. That's counterintuitive in a university community. I represent the Lexington Department of Associations in their litigation. I get calls all throughout the week from families who say, we came to Lexington this summer looking for off-campus housing. That's going to continue to happen. Every summer families are going to come. They're going to try to find a place for their students to live off-campus. what they're going to find is they're going to find homeowners in the neighborhoods that would like to rent to them, but they're going to find out we can't because there's already 50% student housing in this area or 33% or however it's said. And the message that those parents are going to get is this community doesn't want students living around the university. This community is not welcoming towards students. That's counterintuitive in a university community. We ought to come closer to setting forth legislation that expands and enlarges the options for students around the university instead of restricting it. Because I think it should be a given between us. If we can facilitate our university community, Lexington is going to win. We're going to win in tax dollars. We're going to win in bright minds who live here and work here. We're going to win if we can facilitate it. The density limits legislation on its face points to students and say, you all are the problem and we've got to limit you. That's not welcoming. It sends a bad message and we need to reject it. Thank you. Thank you very much. Andrea Patsolidis from Columbia Terrace. Katie Wilkerson. Gail Fulton. Robert Keston. You're up next. Then will be Jennifer Nichols and Mark, maybe Wallace. Okay, Robert, welcome. This is Gordon. My name is Robert Keston. I live at 3737 Dixonia Drive in Lexington. I'm a resident of Lexington for 40 years. First to council members and fellow citizens. I should begin. For 40 years, a U.K. alumnus, a property manager for over two dozen rental units in the campus area and numerous others around Fayette County, I served on the Student Housing Task Force. I'm a member of the Executive Committee of the University Area Housing Association. I was one of the delegation that traveled to Columbus, Ohio, to learn how Ohio State University deals with student housing issues in neighborhoods near campus and promotes cooperation between universities, city, business, and neighborhoods. I'm going to try to cover a few different things, and I'll do my best in the three minutes or less that I have as of now. First, I want to just summarize a few things from the University Area Housing Association's response to the Student Housing Task Force report. And several of us from the UAHA served on the task force, and were part of that policy, and I enjoyed serving on it, a lot of good people on it. We want to put on the record that we support expanded enforcement, that we particularly support of existing laws, that we particularly support the creation of an off-campus student services office, which is basically what we call the Ohio State Plan, or if the university continues to be reluctant at this time, the preferred student housing pilot program that Officer Keith Gaines proposed would be a suitable substitute for the Ohio State plan until the university comes on board. We also support and encourage planning solutions for neighborhoods like ND1 overlays that would allow neighborhoods to determine their own fate and have better control on a block-by-block basis over things like oversized vinyl box additions. We support additional parking requirements that would help ensure, require one additional off-street parking space for every bedroom greater than four bedrooms for each dwelling unit, in addition to current requirements for those zones. We oppose the Penn State Density Reduction Plan, feel that it's not applicable to Lexington, that it won't work, that it simply raises the issue of where will the students go, and it opposes the issue of live where you work or live where you go to school. We oppose rental licensing as expensive and not needed. We think that fooling around with the definition of family is going down a dangerous, slippery slope. We feel that parking should be increased, not decreased. Our main thing is that we support personal responsibility. Now, I want to address, if I have time, two additional issues. The first is a little more on rental license. Actually, I'm going to address on housing choice because this kind of strikes to my heart. The speaker who I believe is a student who is up here, and he's talking about putting students on reservations. I think he's a little bit hyperbole, but I appreciate his sentiment. In my time studying and debating this issue, I think a lot of people come up and say, we're glad to have the students in our neighborhoods. We just don't want so many, or we want them to be regular. Robert, I'm so sorry to interrupt you. Yes, you got a lot in in three minutes. Thank you very much for being here. Not a problem. Thank you. And thank you for your service on the task force. Jennifer Nichols-Leinbach, Mark. Jennifer, are you here? Oh, okay, good. And then you'll be followed by Mark from 3478 Taste Creek Road. Is that you? All right. Very good. Good afternoon. Jen Nichols, 420 Reading Road. City Council members, It has been brought to my attention that a proposal for the rental licensing ordinance has been presented to you, the members of the City Council. We are here to say that we oppose. Perhaps you have not realized what this would do to the leasing industry here in Kentucky. If this ordinance is passed, you will be expecting us to get each and every ready-made apartment inspected by the City before we can allow an occupant to enter into the apartment. Apparently, this could take the City anywhere from a few weeks to a few months to inspect the said apartment. Due to this, we would be unable to give anyone precise move-in date, causing much frustration to the client and, in effect, causing a major loss of revenue for our company and the tens of thousands of dollars. This could slowly deteriorate the leasing industry here in our city, perhaps causing bankruptcy, the loss of jobs, and other repercussions that are unforeseen at this moment. The financial workings of an apartment complex relies, of course, on the abilities of the staff and on the company in whole, but the financial stability of a company relies on the happiness of our current residents and the satisfaction of prospective tenants. How can we make them happy if we are able to be hindered by an impractical ordinance that will only cause them confusion? Thus, I, as well as my coworkers, owners, and all other apartment communities here, ask you, do not pass this ordinance. As part of the Lexington Apartment Association, we urge you to consider not only will this ordinance encumber us, it will do the same to all of our clients coming to us to find the housing that they deserve within a timely manner. Please oppose this ordinance to any council members. Let us continue to provide the high-quality apartments and the immediate satisfaction that our prospective clients deserve. Thank you so much, The Lineback Company. Thank you very much. Mark, and I apologize about your last name. I'm sure you'll straighten us out. And then is Kirk Griggs here? Or Bill DeBoerch? If you are, you'll be next. Welcome. Thank you. Mark Wallace, 3478 Day Street. I own seven houses on South Broadway Park. Over the last 10 years, I've seen the street go from about 65% rental to 90%. The reason is because of demand. As UK gets bigger, builds more buildings, increases their student population, tears down residences. Building car garage, the demand for student housing count close to campus increases. Which is really the basis for this problem. What do we do with all these students overtaking residential areas? I don't think anyone would vote UK to stop growing, but of course that would solve the problem. Another part of the problem is that not all students like to live in high-density mid-rise apartments. Living in a house gives a feeling of home, which is what they have experienced for the first 18 years of their life. Most of the houses on South Broadway Park are 80 to 100 years old. These Victorian-style houses have tall ceilings, many fireplaces, hardwood floors, and the character of these houses cannot be replaced in new apartments. Also, parents like their children living in these houses. I don't think anyone would say that students are just not allowed to live in houses. So the problem continues. As the student population increases, so is the demand for students to live close to campus. It has been that way for years and will continue for years. So what is the solution? One, decrease the demand by building economical living conditions for those who are willing to live in high-density apartments. With the Angliana, Red Mile, and South Broadway construction projects, I believe we'll see demand for houses being converted to apartments be small in the next few years. Two, we can make more rules by laws, committees, and hire inspectors and enforcers so we all can get along in a beautiful neighborhood. The big question is who's going to pay for this solution. Will it be the homeowners who are the most to benefit from this ruling, or LFUCG, landlords, or all three? Three, any new addition to a house close to campus should be regulated through building permits to see that it's not a vinyl box. Vinyl boxes make any neighborhood look ugly, especially a street that has Victorian charm. Fines should be increased for those building without a building permit. Those who have started building without permission must have a stop work order until they comply with Building Planning Commission. Four, allow student density around campus to grow proportionally, just as UK is growing. Neighborhoods close to campus 50 years ago may have been mainly residential, but now are mainly students. It's just part of growth of UK. The proposal to have students only in every third unit is just crazy. This would mean there would be a high number of units that need to be filled with non-students who like living close to campus and around students. If not, then these units must stay empty. This does not make sense for anybody. We would also have the difficulty of defining what is a student. If one worked full-time and took one or two classes, are they a student, like my wife is now? What if a husband or wife goes to school full-time while the other works? Are they students? Who is going to enforce this? Is there going to be a census every year going around asking house to house how many students live here? I think we can see this proposal is not the right solution. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Wallace. Kirk Griggs, are you here? The next name is maybe Bill DeBorch or DeBorch Ball, and there's no address. I'm so sorry. Is there anyone here with a name similar to that? Jim Ball? Okay. 6-2-1-5-3-1-0. Is that you? Okay. Do you want to come to the microphone, please, and give us your name and address? And I apologize. That's all right. That's Deborah Ball. Can I have his minute and a half that he had left that he yielded? Is that okay? I yielded two minutes. You are well, does that suit the committee? It's fine with me. Okay. So you have five minutes, and it's Deborah Ball. Yes. And your address, please. It's 2281 Guilford Lane. Good day to all the members. Thanks for letting me come to speak. My name is Deborah Ball. I'm a real estate broker here in town, a member of the Lexington Board of Realtors, also a builder and developer, and a member of the Lexington Home Builders Association. Just to let you know, I have two juniors at the University of Kentucky. My husband is an alumni, and we also have a daughter of our five daughters that graduated from the University of Kentucky. And that just kind of lets you know what we think of UK. We love it. With all due respect to the task force, it kind of surprises me that with as much development and as much money that has been brought into this town, taxpayers' dollars, et cetera, et cetera, that both of these industries have brought, that neither of those industries had a representation on the task force. Just want that said. Also, to let you know in the city of Lexington, according to Sperling, we have a population of 279,440. And is everyone aware that in Lexington, Kentucky, 40.4% of Lexington is rental property? Is everyone aware of that? And if you take that industry away from us and you take the taxpayers' dollars of property taxes that build the roads, pay the workers, pay the dollars for the schools, what do you think that's going to do to our industry? Do you have any idea? That means that half of the population in this town is rental. That's amazing, isn't it? So if you want to mess with an industry that pays for half of this town today, you're really, really, really pleased think about what you're doing. I'm not for or against what the task force did. I just do not think that they thought through what they're messing with. I think that we need to go back to the table, and I think that we need to look at other ways. Let's look at this right now. Now, as a landlord myself, the KRS 383-605 requires that tenants themselves, number one, keep premises clean and safe and practical. Number two, dispose of all ashes, garbage, and rubbish in the yards. It's not my requirement. It's theirs. That is a law. Number three, conduct himself in a manner that does not disturb the neighbors. That's not my requirement as the landlord. That is the tenant. That's a KRS statute. So that's not my requirement. That's my tenant's requirement. Okay? Also, another one is not to engage in any illegal or unlawful activity or conduct within the premises. I have my own children living in Sherrard Circle, of which one of your task force went to. If there is something there that you do not like, I have my own children living there, so that they will tell me what goes on there so that I can address it. But let's also remember, if some of you here have not read the Landlord-Tenant Act that was instituted in 1974, I suggest that everyone in this room read every line of it. Because as the gentleman mentioned earlier, there are civil rights that were also part of this act in 1974. 1968 that none of you are thinking about. Just like the gentleman said, you can't go busting in somebody's door. If I do not like what one of my tenants do, and believe me, a lot of times I don't, there is nothing I can do about it. I have to give them a 24-hour notice. So I think before a lot of us are going to get on the bandwagon about trying to pick on a particular group of people, there are already statutes. There are already laws in place. how about let's all work together to try to utilize those that are already in place? I have made a suggestion to this council before through the Home Builders Association and through the Lexington Board of Realtors. I'll tell you how to clean up the trash. The tenants, when they get the water in their name, if you will impose a penalty on them through their water bill one time for $100, imposing it on me does no good. Because no matter how many times I ask them to pick it up, it doesn't change. But if you'll put that $100 on their bill one time, hit their pocketbook, then you don't have to worry about the trash. You don't have to hire additional workers from the city to go there and pick up the trash. Because believe me, I care about my properties. I don't have 401Ks. I have five children, I have three grandchildren, and those properties are my 401Ks. So I do care very much about the trash being in the yard. Awesome. Thank you very much. Okay, thank you. I'm sorry your time is up. Unless somebody wants to give me more. Is Jim Ball here? My father-in-law didn't make it, no. Oh, okay, thank you. Tommy Cunningham, where are you? Oh, you signed up twice. Oh, okay. You've already spoken. Sorry about that. Is Amy Clark here? I like your creativity, but we're trying to see that everybody gets one opportunity to speak. Amy Clark, are you here? Okay. Kate Savage, did you speak last time? Okay. And then after Kate will be Michael Friedman. And I believe Marguerite Waddell is going to give me her three minutes. Is this true? Okay, so you'll have six minutes. I'd like to debunk a couple of myths from last meeting. The first one is that the Student Housing Task Force was an open meeting. It was not a group of people meeting on a clandestine basis. I attended many of these meetings myself, although I was not on the task force. I probably attended about 50%. So the people who were here today and the last time who complained about not being represented, this task force had 16 people on it. It was hard enough watching them come to a consensus, but there was no reason why anybody who wanted to could not attend those meetings, be privy to the emails, all of which I received. So it's just a matter of how much you wish to engage with these things as they're going on. It's too bad to try and complain after the fact. Okay, I live on Columbia Avenue. I failed to state that, and my name is Kate Savage. And your address, please, on Columbia. 619 Columbia Avenue. Thank you. And this is not an anti-student effort. What we want is moderation in behavior, in the ratio of students to everybody else in the neighborhood. I moved into my house 25 years ago. It's an eclectic neighborhood. That was my choice. I did not want to live in some rarefied atmosphere over in the O2 neighborhood. Sorry, guys, I know lots of you live there. I like the fact that I have little old ladies, that I have musicians, that I have a young student couple with a baby living next door to me. We even have the two folks that make sushi at Kroger's on Euclid living on my block. I like that. It makes for a very colorful neighborhood. We also like to have students. But I don't want to wake up one day and find that I'm the only student living on my block, and I'm the only person who still has a backyard. It makes sense that students live close to the campus, as well as people who work there. It's appropriate that we should cluster close to the campus. Everyone is welcome. But we don't want to be overwhelmed, those of us that are trying to live there. The problem exists because UK has expanded and expanded and expanded. There are now 27,000 students enrolled at UK. 7,000 of those have on-campus accommodations. That means 20,000 students are out there milling around trying to find adequate and appropriate housing. There's an ordinance that allows an 800 square foot house to have up to 26,000 additional square feet added to it. That's just absurd. Affordable housing is what we all want, but unfortunately, the expansion of UK and the ordinance that allows for these absurd additions has created sort of a loophole almost where these scofflaw landlords have been able to come in and, in their avarice, and not all of them are this way, in their avarice, take advantage of a situation that has developed. I would like to see family redefined. What's wrong with four people who are not related? That pretty much encompasses anybody that falls between the usual orthodox cracks. I'd like to see businesses licensed that are operating in R1 neighborhoods. I live in an R1 neighborhood. I think that a business is anything where you're making a buck, and landlords are making a buck renting their homes. Why are they not licensed? I cannot operate my catering business out of my house. I have to pay for the health inspections four times a year at my health-approved facility on Romney Road. If I don't pass the health department inspections, I'm closed down. It's as simple as that. And we're not talking just about covered food and seals on refrigerators that work. We're looking at things like whether the hydraulic closure device on the women's restroom works. It's pretty stringent. Landlords, in my opinion, are running a business. It's not a hobby. It's their livelihood. They're renting these homes in R1. It's not a business zoned area. Why are they getting a free ride? So I want to see family redefined. I want to see businesses licensed, and I want them to go through the regular channels of getting a conditional use license like anybody would have to that was trying to change the use of their property in an R1 district. Just as I recall Bob Cook, who used to be the president of the Columbia Heights Neighborhood Association, When she tried to get a license for her massage therapy business out of her house, she had to go to all kinds of lengths. She had to canvas the neighborhood. She had to be sponsored. She had to have two readings in front of the council. Why are these landlords not having to do the same? They are running a business, ladies and gentlemen. It's not a hobby. And I want to see UK brought to the table. Does anybody have any ability to bring UK to task? They're sitting there in their ivory castle in La La Land. They've created this problem. Where is UK? All we've got is UK students down here thinking that we're trying to drive them out. Where are the people who make decisions who can engage with us from UK? Thank you for your time. Thank you very much. Next is Michael Friedman. Are you here? Anne-Marie Stamatiotis. And then I believe I was told Ryan Smith. Is Ryan Smith here? Okay, you'll be next. Welcome. Hello, I'm Anne-Marie Stamatiotis. I live at 125 Barbary Lane in the Seven Parks neighborhood. I, along with many homeowners here in the Chamber, are here to voice our support to the Housing Task Force and its recommendations. Of course, the issue at hand is that we homeowners have experienced the problems that the Task Force has dealt with and offered solutions for, and this is why we support some or all of the recommendations. We have evidence of the degradation of our neighborhoods due to the increased density, and we are trying to save them. Over many years, we have experienced firsthand the apathy of absentee landlords, the unruly behavior and disrespect towards the properties by transient residents, and the inability of city departments to enforce ordinances due to lack of money or personnel. Now, we have seen too many single-family homes turned into boarding houses or mini-dorms so that a few can profit at the expense of the neighborhoods and the city. This continued conversion of properties into boarding houses and the increase of density in our neighborhoods needs to stop immediately to avoid current and future problems. Those who are speaking here against the recommendations or are protesting aspects of it are simply speculating, often with great exaggeration, in order to create a doomsday scenario. We believe that you are clever enough to see through that. If you do not take these recommendations and work with them to see which ones can be implemented and which ones may not work for our city and our neighborhoods, you are dooming these neighborhoods to continued deterioration in which no permanent residents will choose to live. Discarding the task force recommendations will perpetuate the deterioration of the neighborhoods, since neither the large numbers of student renters nor many of the landlords care to keep them up. I also want to express my disappointment in the University of Kentucky for not taking responsibility for this problem. The U.K. administration should be ashamed of itself for its minimal participation in the task force and for making no official offers to provide more student housing on its property or even seriously considering it in their future plans. So in the end, I'm asking you not to drop the task force recommendations, but move them forward to the council for further consideration and voting. Thank you. Thank you very much. Ryan Smith, Lori Sills, and then, okay. And so if you can kind of cue up. And then Larry. Is it Sills? Okay, thank you. All right, welcome. Nice to see you. My name is Ryan Smith. I live at 411 Pennsylvania Court. I'm the student body president at UK. And I'd like to thank you guys for giving us the opportunity to come down here today as well as two weeks ago. I think it's clear there are many different perspectives on this important issue. As a student at UK, I felt it was important to have a presence here today and two weeks ago to show members of the council, the vice mayor, members of the community, our perspective on this issue. We feel that the leading proposal before you presents significant challenges to the students and the surrounding communities. If enacted, you will see prices for rental properties increase due to a significant decrease in the number of rental properties. Furthermore, I don't feel that the city is prepared to see this increase in traffic and congestion and parking in areas that are already struggling with those issues, particularly surrounding UK's campus. Pushing students farther away, I don't feel, is the answer and into the surrounding communities. We need to embrace students and we need to entice them to stay here in Lexington after graduation. This policy proposal does not, I don't feel, promotes that type of cooperation that we need to see. I think it's clear we need to start with a better level of communication and cooperation between students, government officials, the university, local residents, and landlords. I'd like to have an honest discussion about student housing and propose some real solutions that will benefit all parties involved. This proposal, the leading proposal before you, presents a significant number of unanswered questions that I don't feel have been properly thought out. For example, how will the city fund this buyback program? Will that result in an increase in taxes? How do you define a student? Will a 50-year-old nontraditional student qualify as a student? Does a BCTC student qualify as a student? Does a Transylvania student qualify as a student? How do you enforce whether landlords are abiding by these rules? What will lead to a loss in a permit? I just ask these questions because I want to make sure that everyone has clearly thought out the implications of pushing students farther away from campus and the implications it's going to have for the university and the city. And I look forward to talking with each of you over the next few weeks and months as we work together. So thank you. Thank you very much. Next is Lori Sills. And then Larry Sills. and then Donna Maupin and Katie Neal. Welcome. Hi. Good afternoon. Larry Sills is going to be giving me his minutes. Oh, Larry, where are you? Okay. You have six minutes then. Okay. My name is Lori Sills. I live at 1137 Shinaway Road. I am part of Sills Properties, Incorporated. Sills Properties has been investing in student housing around U.K. for the past 20 years. We're frustrated with the proposal put forth by the Student Housing Task Force for two reasons. The failure to engage the vast majority of residents and business owners that this measure will impact, and the anti-student density measures that make up the foundation of this proposal. The task force chairman presented that this proposal had received fair student and landlord participation. I think it's clear to this committee by now that this was simply not true. This proposal is opposed by the vast majority of the student culture, as well as most of the businessmen and women who provide them housing. We understand that there is more than one side to this or any issue, but to represent that all parties were fairly included is simply false. To fail to allow proportional participation of the vast majority of people who live close to UK is wrong. I feel that this proposal is a minority view. It is a view held by 10 to 20 percent of the residents close to UK who have chosen not to move as their neighborhoods have changed. And it's a view that was shaped from the beginning with a predetermined outcome. We are frustrated with the reduced student density foundation of this proposal. We reject the measures to limit students to only three per house. We reject the measures to limit students to one house in three. We reject licensing measures that are designed to put landlords out of the business of renting to students. We reject references in this task force proposal that student density is the problem that needs to be solved, and we reject references in this task force proposal that suggest that businesses that rent to students, such as mine, do not provide a high measure of economic value. What we have then is a failed document from a failed task force. We have a rehash of the same thing that we went through several years ago. That is why that we are asking that this committee vote on rejecting this proposal completely and entirely and disbanding this task force and start again. A new task force is needed, a task force that can relate to student culture, a task force that is about engagement and not disbursement. We ask that you allow the majority of residents in the UK area to have the majority representation on the new task force and the majority voice in the new proposal. We ask that a student be the chair. We ask that you engage those businesses that have a long history of providing student services in the area, including housing. We ask that you allow participation by pro-student community leaders, such as Officer Gaines or someone like-minded. We'd like for you to provide a funding model to improve student services by the city, such as student transportation, trash collection, law enforcement, fire and safety. And we want you to recognize that university students are young leaders and they're highly educated individuals, many of whom will become future Lexington property taxpayers. Thank you. Thank you. Next is Donna Maupin. And then Katie Neal will be next after that. Welcome. Thank you. I wanted to ask, the first gentleman that spoke had nine minutes and he only used three and he gave six minutes to the next gentleman who only used three. So that left six minutes, and she took two of them. So there's four minutes left. I don't think that's correct. I've been keeping a tally up here. I did watch the clock. Okay. All right. Well, I have some positive things to say. If you could give your name and address, please. Thank you. My name is Donna Maupin. I live at 333 Transylvania Park. I have been a homeowner occupant and an employee of the University of Kentucky since 1986. I also have lived in Lexington all my life, and my father was a lifelong employee of the university. I have three degrees from the University of Kentucky, so I'm not opposed to UK. Today I'd like to speak about four things. the diverse needs of the people involved in this issue, the history of Aylesford, which is where I live, other university solutions to similar problems, and requests that the City of Lexington implement a standard of accommodation for Lexington neighborhoods that abut the university. Landlords need to make money off their investment. Students need appropriate housing. Homeowners need to be able to maintain the cultural and historical integrity of their neighborhoods and at the same time protect the monetary value of their investment. And university needs housing for their students. And Lexington needs to maintain and promote their cultural integrity and historical neighborhoods. Elsford was designed by the Olmstead brothers who designed their neighborhoods based on the City Beautiful movement. Since I'm running out of time, I'll skip over that. Several top research universities have had similar problems in neighborhoods near their universities. Yale has been successful and Duke has been successful. been successful. In 1996, Duke committed to creating 12 partner neighborhoods around their campus. And these are now some of the most historic in Durham. And the students live in those neighborhoods as well as homeowners. And their neighborhoods, their communities, they're not just downgraded housing for students. So we need a requirement, a standard of accommodation around UK. And we need to look at resource utilization, utilities, sewers, parking, and streets. When houses hold 12 to 15 students that were meant for four to six people, and backyards hold 12 to 15 cars that were meant for one car, that is not utilization. So we need to ensure that as a city and a university and a community, we can be proud of the environment that surrounds the campus and promotes the communities for everyone to enjoy and live in, not just students, not just homeowners, and not just so landlords can make money. And I had pictures, and I forgot all about that. Are they... Eight seconds. Go ahead. Oh, well, they don't show up. This is just to show that one street over from my street is pretty much very, very downgraded and embarrassing, and it's two blocks from U.K., and I would think that the city and Lexington would want to clean that up. There was humongous amounts of trash and mattresses and beer bottles out yesterday, Sunday. Do you have the hard copy pictures that you could at least pass? I had a handout for each of you, plus I have a CD with the pictures on it that I can leave. Okay, all right. Thank you very much. Katie Neal, and then perhaps Don or Dan Truex. I'm so sorry. Katie, go ahead. I'm sorry, could you speak at the microphone so we can hear you? Katie Neal, I'd like to pass my minutes to Debra Ball, please. That's fine. You'll have three minutes. Okay. Back to what she was just talking about. Even if you go back to the landlords of what you are trying to do and impose an additional $50 on us, I still want to know how, and I agree with her, I don't like seeing any of that. And I don't own any property near the University of Kentucky. And I agree with this lady that spoke earlier that lives there. None of us want to see that. I don't think anybody wants to see a mattress or any of the trash or anything when we go to the games. But I want to know from the task force, how is imposing an additional $50 and trying to come up with 100 more employees going to really make that trash go away? It's just I've been in rental business for 25 years. That's not going to do it. If you don't punish the person who is actually putting the trash there, it's not going to stop. I've had tenants for way too long. You just have to understand, we already have stuff in force, police. We have trash. We have, again, the KRS statutes. We have to learn to go back to what we already have. And, you know, I know some of you are mad at us because this is what we do for a living, But, you know, this just happens to be what I do for a living. I have a job. I work every day, sometimes 15, 16 hours a day. And if I go and I talk to a tenant and I get cussed out or if I feel threatened by them, there's nothing I can do about it, you know. But we do pay license. We are taxed by the city of Lexington already by a net license fee. We're taxed by the federal government. I promise you, I assure you, we pay our taxes to have a business. Maybe you're not aware of this, but we do. What? Huh? In R1? Yes. In anything, if I have a duplex, if I have a triplex, if I have a single family, yes, I have to report that to the government that that's what that is. Yes, ma'am, I do. And so it's not a free ride by any means. What we do and what we bring in is income. I think no one is picking. I know I'm not picking on the task force. I'm saying I wish we could go back. I wish there were some way, all of us who have the net license fee, that you could poll us and ask us what our problems are. You think we don't have problems with the tenants? I have some of the most wonderful tenants in the world, and I have some of the most nightmare tenants in the world. But I wish there was some way to poll every landlord and ask us how we could help you. You know, because believe me, there's ways that we want to help you help this problem. It's kind of like I tell my children, help me help you. Don't fight me because there's things we can help you do. We're not the bad guys here. We're really not. And, again, the kids, they're out of school. They're on their own. They're 18 years old. If the police catch them, arrest them. But, again, I've got children in college. If they do wrong, they're going to pay the consequences. Thank you very much, Deborah. Okay, thank you. Now, the next name looks like either Dan or Pam or Dawn. Is there someone here with a maybe true X? Did you sign up? Okay, please come forward. And then Micah Poston, and you'll be after, is it Pam or Dawn? I'm sorry. So then you'll be next, Micah. Thank you. Hello, I'm Dawn Forey, and we're a transplant from Western Kentucky. Can you give your address? 1501 Muir Station Road. Okay, and can you spell your last name for me, please? F-O-R-R-Y. Thank you. And our complex is located in District 1, 150 Northland Drive. We are not located in an R1 district. We are designated commercial. We have about 78 units. We are privately owned. And all of this talk about licensing every single complex that doesn't even house UK students is going to significantly impact our business. I am speaking for private landlords, areas that are already designated commercial, and my modest income tenants. And probably the most significant thing is the utilities have increased horrendously. And because of that, we're paying 43% more on just water and sewer. That does not include the water fee tax that is going to come up, and that will start in January. Our pools have been mandated that we have to get a new drain on them. Our fire hydrants have been mandated that we have to significantly have them upgraded and painted. All of these go to the bottom line. Our unit is conservative. Our tenants are barely hanging on to their jobs. And every time a new mandate comes down or a new regulation comes down, what do you think that does? That's going to hurt our tenants. And when these regulations come by and go into effect and we have to raise the rent, the thing that we will have to do is we will have to tell our tenants, you know, the city mandated this, so we are going to have to pass along these significant increases. otherwise we will no longer be a viable business in the town of Lexington. We are not rapacious landlords, and as far as trash goes, my husband and I have picked up enough trash we could fill this room. Okay? We keep our complex nice, we value our tenants, and we also value their pocketbook, which is going to be hurt significantly. So please take all of this into consideration. Every time you pass one of these ramifications, it hurts our tenants. And they're not wealthy people. A lot of them work at restaurants. A lot of them are single moms with little kids. We can't continue to keep legislating people out of existence. Thank you so much for being here. Micah and then Robin Waller. Are you here, Robin? You'll be next. And then is Joe Gravis here? Okay. Bob Hoskins. Hodgkins. Okay, welcome. Give us your name and address. Micah Poston, 274 Lafayette Parkway. I'm here as a homeowner. I don't own any other land in Lexington besides where my wife and I reside. And I'm just speaking in opposition to the task force recommendations. I live in the Southland Drive area, close to Lafayette High School, which is, I guess you would say, on the fringe of campus property, campus rental property. We'd like to see, I've talked to myself, or obviously these are views of myself, but I've talked to neighbors on both sides about what is going into effect or what could be going into effect. And we would like to see this resolved, the density problem resolved here, instead of dispersing thousands of students to the outlying neighborhoods, because we'll be next. We'll be dealing with this in five years in the Southland Drive area. I don't know enough about the Penn State-Ohio State plan to speak educatedly about what's going on for the details of that. But I, my wife, and my neighbors believe that the students should be able to live close to where they go to school. I graduated from UK in 2006, and now I've just been working for the last few years. And I moved exactly where I moved so that I could be close to where I worked. and if this was 2005, 2006 and I was a student, I would be a little miffed that there was a group that didn't want me around. You wouldn't dare do that with any other kind of socioeconomic group today. So that's it. I just wanted to voice my opposition to the task force. Thank you. Thank you very much. Is Robin Waller here? Okay. Joe Gravis. Bob Hodgkins. You'll be next. Oh, are you Robin? Okay, very good. Robin Waller, 621 Orchard Avenue. I just wanted to voice my opposition to the task force. I've lived on Orchard for 25 years. I've owned my house. I don't have any trouble with students, and I never have. And the boxes that they build are ugly when people have the additions, but it's necessary. I feel that I live there because I like walking to Kroger, walking to Rite Aid, going shopping, going to restaurants, and that's why a lot of people, and the university. So that's why a lot of people live in my neighborhood, and a lot of people want to live in my neighborhood. And I don't see any houses that when they are up for sale don't get sold, because a lot of people and young people, like they can afford the prices in my neighborhood. And so I just don't want anything that is going to harm the students from feeling comfortable about being in my neighborhood and about from people renting in my neighborhood, buying houses in my neighborhood to rent to students because we do. It's a student neighborhood, and that's what it is. and people just have to deal with it. And I haven't had any problems in 25 years, and I just want to say that I'm against the task force. Thanks. Thank you very much. Bob Hodgkins. All right. John Cole. John Cole is next. John. John Cole is next. Robert. Sorry. We'll get there. My name is John Cole. My home address is at 311 Holiday Road. My office address is at 431 South Broadway. I would like to be brief today. To begin with, I'd like to thank all the members of the Council. Over the years that I've come down here for various things, I've been pleasantly surprised some occasions and pleasantly pleased with others where you have made right decisions. One of the things that I want to talk about today is I want to explain to some of you who I haven't seen for a long time because I haven't been down here for a while. My family has been in the real estate business for 52 years. We've been on South Broadway that entire time, since 1956. We built probably 2,000 units of apartments across the state of Kentucky as far west as Glasgow. We have dealt with smaller communities and Lexington. We have a great deal of experience with apartments and housing. In fact, I started in 1973 in Lexington on Rose Lane, managing efficiency apartments for students. I don't want to go through all of the things that you've listened to, Ed, over and over again in this meeting. What I would like to do is to tell you that from my experience in the apartment business, dealing with the National Apartment Association, I've been president of the local apartment association, one of its founding members. I was a founding member of the Commercial Property Association. My review of the information that has come from this task force is that it is impractical. It will make a lot of difficulty in terms of managing properties in the area. And the real problem that I see here is that there will be unintended consequences from particularly the idea of licensing and inspections. It's not that we shouldn't inspect. It's not that we shouldn't have some form of licensing when necessary. But the types of ideas that have been espoused by the Commission are not workable in my opinion. I have known Dr. Stevens for a number of years. I used to have lunch with him out at Keeneland from time to time. but I must respectfully disagree with his opinion in this matter. The types of issues that we are dealing with here need to be rethought. I would be happy to volunteer in any way possible for this from my experiences, but the truth of the matter is that I don't see this as being a viable alternative to what we presently have. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. John Bernal, Mark Barker, Steve Keston. Welcome. It's very clearly written. This is John Bernal. I live at 1212 Cape Cod Circle. I'm a commercial real estate broker here in Lexington, second career, but deal with real estate all over the nation. and I am a member of the Board of Realtors as well as Lexington Department Association. I sit on their board. I'm looking at this somewhat objectively. I don't have a dog in this fight, so to speak, but I do kind of see things. I served originally on the Stormwater Task Force when we had the problem back then because my house flooded. I, of course, have been part of the EPA mandate as it relates to water quality, and now we're talking about student housing. Two degrees from the University of Kentucky. I happen to be 75 years old. I've seen a lot of water over the dam, and I try to be very pragmatic. In looking at this situation, I just think that we probably are trying to do too much to solve a problem that already has solutions on the books. I think we have adequate regulations. We have adequate ordinances on the books that would take care of this situation. I think that when you get into the area of licensing and defining family and things of that nature, you're in slippery territory. That assumes that all the generations before us have not done their job, and I don't think that's the case. The Apartment Association has offered its recommendations. It has dealt with this box deal of adding space with the MD1 overlay proposal. It also has said in its rebuttal that the people out there are responsible citizens who are providing this housing, and there's a lot of them. They formed an association to do things right. And I think that in doing so, they have a handle on it. They have given very logical solutions to this situation. Looking at Penn State and comparing it to the University of Kentucky and Ohio State, bad comparison because of the rural nature of Penn State. We visited Ohio State. They have a plan. It does involve university participation. I wish the university would do that. I have met with the hierarchy of the university in the past, talked to them about these matters. They, of course, are only going to allocate about 20% housing for the student population and leave it up to the community for the rest. And I can understand that. They want to put their money in facilities and in teaching things and things of that nature. But yet on the other hand, I think these people have done a relatively good job. You do have to put the onus on the students for what they do. I think that in reality we have a situation where the record here has been overwhelming on the part of the testimony that you've heard. Listen to the people. They've said that this task force recommendation is one that probably isn't on the mark, And we would recommend to the council, and I have emailed each of you asking you to adopt the Ohio State plan or the officer's plan and see what we can do with this thing. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Next is Mark Barker and then Steve Keston. Welcome. Hello, my name is Mark Barker. I live at 439 Park Avenue. I'm just here to support some of the student housing task force recommendations, particularly the first two, I think, density and getting a hold of inspection so that we can actually look into these houses and see what's in them, see if they're abiding by the law. But people keep on saying we have the laws in the book. The problem is there's absolutely no way to enforce them, and the only way you're going to be able to enforce them is if you can't inspect those homes or rental properties. We have a law saying that you can't have rooming houses in single-family homes, but that's pretty much ignored. And people oppose the Penn State plan, but in reality the Penn State plan, in effect, allows some rooming houses in R1, where the law, if it's actually enforced, allows none. One of the people said that they didn't support, well, someone said that they weren't included. Well, we send out letters to the landlords and to the students every time we have a neighborhood association meeting, and they rarely ever come. What you see is they come in large groups when something is proposed, and then they walk away once they've killed that off. And then another two years later, three years later, someone proposes something again. They oppose it, but they don't do anything in between to participate in the community. Coming and picking up your rental check and leaving is not participating in the community. Thank you. Thank you very much. Steve Keston. And are you the Mr. Keston who's getting the three minutes from Mr. Hodskins? Is that? Okay, Mr. Hodskins. Where did he go? Oh, you're not. Okay, you have three minutes. Welcome. Thank you, Linda. My name is Steve Keston. I reside at 3205 Tates Creek Road. I've been in real estate in Lexington for 30 years and lived here since 1968, despite my foreign accent. As owner and manager of apartments, a real estate broker, and an LBAR member for 20 years, As of October 30th, I shall have to pay $17,000 in property taxes to Fayette County. January 1st, I shall have to pay a fee for storm sewer runoff, and this is based on the size of my roof and asphalt. Last month, I paid $600 to the city for a financial license fee to make all of my properties LLCs. I just paid $2,000 to fix sidewalks by order of the city, plus federal, state, and city taxes. Repairs keep rising with the age of buildings. Recession forces rents down. Higher tenant turnover than any other year since I've been in business is now the case due to higher unemployment. If this council and state government did a better job of supervising the airport board, the library board, the League of Cities, the League of Counties, we'd have all the dollars we'd need to police code enforcement of landlord and tenant. and to settle a $500,000 robbery by those four scoundrels on working at the airport for a lousy $10,000 is certainly not good business. I know that the gentleman who's vice mayor and runs a very large business would never accept that as payment in full. All governments know how to spend, but not how to save. Dave Stevens knows less about economics than Barack Obama, and our national deficit and the value of our dollars shows how little he knows. You will bankrupt the landlords or force rents through the roof to pay all the taxes you want to impose. Ohio State and Columbus, not Penn State, is the campus and the city most like Lexington and UK. To compare Penn State to UK is like comparing the New York Yankees to the Lexington Legends. Thank you. Thank you. Next is Nick S-A-C-H, maybe? Such. Such a guy. Okay, will you please come forward? And I think I saw Amy Clark come in. Did you still want to speak? You're signed up. Okay, so you'll be after Nick. Hi, my name is Nick Such. I live at 187 Montmolin Street. I'm a former U.K. student. I live Montmolin Street right across from campus, across South Limestone. I now work downtown and live with four graduate students, which I think is a situation that's not typically what you think of when you hear about students living together. I mean, we're all 23, 24 years old, a little bit different than 19-year-olds in their first or second year of college. So I'd actually like to speak about something a little different, though. I was watching a speech by Dean Kamen last night. He's the inventor of the Segway. And a point that he made, one of the reasons he designed a new personal transportation device, was that cars occupy typically 60% of the land mass in the 20 largest cities in the world. I don't think Lexington would be considered much different from that. So I think it's kind of interesting that no one has put forth the proposal to move cars away from the neighborhoods. around Lexington, because if you took all the street area and all the parking area, I'm sure we could build plenty of new single-family homes in the areas around campus. Additionally, I think this could help with some of the bicycle and pedestrian-friendly recommendations that the city is pursuing. So my point is that I think transportation is something that was not fully considered in the plan. I think there's the potential, if we take a bunch of students who normally walk across the street from their home to campus and ask them to commute from other parts in the city, I think that will have a very negative effect not only on the people, on the students themselves, but on the city as a whole, anyone who lives and works in the campus or downtown area. and urge that a traffic study is performed before any further progress is made on this plan. Thank you very much. Thank you. Amy Clark? Good afternoon. My name is Amy Clark. I live at 628 Castle Road in Hollywood. And I would mention that although we had wonderful volunteers working on the Student Housing Task Force, and I'm very grateful to each of them, people with real influence and judgment, I speak for people who live, for myself and others, I believe, who are like me, who live south of Euclid in an R1E neighborhood. Our lot sizes are about 4,000 square feet, maybe a little larger. Most of the lot sizes of members on the task force were really a lot larger, so I thank them for their perspective and their contributions, which are amazing. But think about the tiny little houses crammed with too many tenants. I would say that I think mandatory rental licensing is the best proposal offered by the task force. It protects all tenants. It protects, there have been studies that note that it was very efficacious protecting migrant workers in housing. Our situation with trailers might be improved by that. A voluntary inspection program, licensing program is a great start, but it punishes the good citizens, and they get the reputation for what landlords who aren't as conscientious are perpetrating. It especially can solve the problem that came up over and over again in the task force of enabling inspectors to enter a property to inspect. Properly written, it could do that. I would suggest that it might be prudent to distinguish between R1 or R1 and R2 properties and other sorts of properties which are already built and constructed as rental housing in having an inspection program. I also hold it a high priority to enforce the existing ordinances. I would suggest that the council and the task force members, the planning committee, invite the mayor to assume personal responsibility simply as the executive arm. Perhaps have a website where complaints can be registered and then the follow-up tract and the resolution posted. because we're not seeing the enforcement that we think we pay for in our taxes. I would caution that when a great majority of the task force finds so many difficulties with enforcement, I think it needs a lot more study before we say that we should bypass the district course and have an administrative procedure instead. And finally, I would say that the idea of a 50-50 limit, please give us ordinances that are truly enforceable. I think discriminating against student ownership or renting would not give us enforceable ordinances. Thank you. Thank you very much. Are either of the Kestins or Mr. Hodskins still here? Okay. Is there anyone who did not get to speak who would like to speak? Now's your chance. All right. I want to thank all of you for attending today and thank our council members. We will go back to Council discussion of the proposals from the task force at our meeting on October the 20th at 1 p.m. in the Council chamber here, and we'll also be hearing, I'm hopeful we'll be hearing from someone from U.K. and from Officer Gaines. So thank you all for being here. The meeting is adjourned. Thank you. Troubles, I forgot them. I buried them in the sand. So bring me to Bina Colada's. She said goodbye to her good time and then. Bring, bring, bring me to Bina Colada's. Yeah! One for each end. That's all set to sail with Captain Morgan Will we never leave dry land Troubles I forgot them Troubles I forgot them I buried them in the sand I buried her in the sand So bring me to Pina Coladas And say hello to her good time and man Bring me two Fiena Coladas I gotta have one for each air Let's all set a sail with Captain Morgan And we will never leave dry land The troubles I forgot Your mama used to worry about that big muddy river. Honey, do you remember? He let the screen door slam when you stepped off the front porch. Tell your mama calling, don't be late. I'd hear your daddy holler, son, she's my only daughter. You'd stick your nose in the honeysuckle down by the gate. I could still hear your mama calling, don't go near the water. We fell right in way over our heads, but we didn't go near the water. The girlfriend's so young and sweet And the nights got hotter and hotter We were sure enough getting our feet with Mama But we didn't go near the water You'd hear the rocking chair squeaking As you sneaked up the backstair Mama waiting like a grizzly bear Had to get the honeysuckle out of your house But in the morning light You looked right in the eye It wasn't a lie We didn't go near the water We fell right in way over our heads But we didn't go near the water Love ran deep so young and sweet And the nights got hotter and hotter We showed up getting our feet with mom But we didn't go near the water Your mama used to worry about that big muddy river She shouldn't worry about me Cause we were shown up getting our feet with mama But we didn't go near the water Didn't go near the water Didn't go near the water Yeah I hear the tingle of the clock I'm lying here in the room's pitch dark I wonder where you are tonight No answer on the telephone And the night goes by so very slow Oh, I hope that it won't end though Alone Till now I always don't lie on my own I never really cared until I met you And now it tells me to go home How do I get you alone? How do I get you alone You don't know how long I have wanted To touch your lips and hold you tight You don't know how long I have waited And I was gonna chill you tonight But the secret is still my all And my love for you is still unknown Alone To love I always got my own I never really cared Until I met you And I would choose me to the moon How do I get you alone? How do I get you alone? guitar solo Oh Lord, Oh Lord Well, I met her out at Murphy's Restaurant She said she was fresh from the farm And I remember thinking for a country girl That she went pretty well on We sat there talking by the lobster tank I ordered her a slow-down fish And when them chicken fried steaks are on She said I like living like this So I made her the queen of my double white trailer With the polyester curtains and the redwood cake Now she's run off and I've got the trailer Down with black heart and a pretty redneck Oh Well a few nights later I run into her With some stranger on a park bench She said he rebuilds engines and his name is Earl He's the Cholette Daniels of the Torrent French I whispered, honey, let's just go on home and have some onion rings and watch TV. And as I walked her to the truck, Earl was crying, don't you leave me. I told her, this is the queen of my double white trailer with the polyester curtains and the red hood cake. Sometimes she runs and I've got the tailored bag A black heart and a pretty red neck guitar solo Sometimes she runs and I've got the trailer dang, the black heart and her pretty red neck. I said, this is the queen of my double white trailer, the polyester curtains and the redwood neck. Sometimes she runs and I've got the trailer dang, the black heart and her pretty red neck. Oh, she's a queen. Kissing Queen I'm sorry. I think they're okay If they don't give me proper credit I just walk away They can beg and they can plead But they can't see the light Cause the boy with the cold hard cash Is always Mr. Right Cause we are living in a material world And I am a material girl You know that we are living in a material world And I am a material girl Some boys romance, some boys know that That's alright with me If they can't raise my interest Then I have to let them be Some boys dry and some boys die, but I don't let them play. No way. Only boys that save their pennies make my rainy day game. Cause we are living in a material world, and I am a material girl. You know that we are living in a material world, and I am a material girl. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh And that's all right, you see. Serious has made me rich and know they're after me. Cause everybody's living in a material world. And I am a material girl. You know that we are living in a material world. And I am a material girl. Living in a material world. And I am a material girl You know that we are living in a material world And I am a material girl A material, a material, a material, a material world Thank you. Thank you. We'll do just fine. I've done everything for you. You've done nothing for me. I've done everything for you. You've done nothing for me. You know someday I'd have a whole lot of money. I'd be a millionaire. But when that didn't happen overnight, I found out how much you really cared. But all you want is a whole lot of money All the rest is just jiving, honey I've done everything for you You've done nothing for me I've done everything for you You've done nothing for me When I first met you You didn't know how to love a man All those things about making love you don't understand But now you know about everything I'm telling you it for memories I've done everything for you You've done nothing for me I've done everything for you You've done nothing for me I've done everything for you You've done nothing for me I've done everything for you You've done nothing for me I'm going out on the town tonight Get as wild as I can be I'm going to find out what it's real I like to be loose, high and free I don't care what the people say I'm taking my mind, I'm changing the state I've done everything for you You've done nothing for me I've done everything for you. You've done nothing for me. You've done nothing for me. You've done nothing. You've done nothing. You've done nothing for me. Nothing you can take can tear me away from my guy Nothing you can do cause I'm stuck like glue to my guy I'm sticking to my guy like a stamp to a letter Like birds of a feather Stick together I'm telling you from the start I can't be torn apart Oh my God Nothing you could do Could make me untrue To my God My God Nothing you could buy Could make me tell a lie To my God My God I gave my God My word of honor to be faithful And I'm gonna you best be believing I won't be deceiving my God As a matter of opinion, I think he's tough My opinion is he's the cream of the crop As a matter of taste, to be exact He's my ideal, as a matter of fact No muscle man could take my hand from my God My God No handsome face could ever take the place of my God My God He may not be a movie star But when it comes to being happy The eye that's got a man today Who can take me away from my God No muscle-bound man to take my hand from my guy No handsome face could ever take the place of my guy He may not be your movie star But when it comes to being happy, we are There's not a man today who could take me away from my God What'd you say? There's not a man today who could take me away from my God Tell me more There's not a man today We'll be right back. Since you're gone Nights are getting straight Since you're gone Words from nothing that's making sense Since you're gone I've stumbled into shame Since you're gone Everything's in perfect tense Well, I can't help it When you fall apart And I can't help it Guess you better start That is Since you're gone Since you're gone Night you get Since you're gone Since you're gone Run it all away Since you're gone Since you're gone Night you get Since you're gone Since you're gone Turn it all away I can't help it Everything's a mess I can't help it You're so touchless When it comes It's a mess Since you're gone I can't help it Everything's the best I can't help it You're so dangerous Oh, where's that death from now? Since you're gone, since you're gone I'm Mr. B. Sensation Since you're gone Since you're gone, I took the big vacation Since you're gone, well, never feels the pain Since you're gone, well, moonlight ain't so great Since you're gone, since you're gone I've thrown it all the way Well, you know Since you're gone It's strange I've found it Since you're gone Well Since you're gone Since you're gone Since you're gone Since you're gone Who knows what tomorrow brings In a world few hearts survive All I know is the way I feel This wind, I keep it alive The wind is long There are mountains in our way But we climb the stairs every day The lifters up where we belong Where the eagles cry On the mountain high The lifters up where we belong Far from the world below Up where the clear winds blow Some hang on to your feet Live their life looking behind All we have is here and now All our lives are there to fight The road is gone There are mountains in our way But we climb a step every day Love lifts us up where we belong Where the eagles cry on a mountain high Love lifts us up where we belong Far from the world we know Where the clear winds blow Time goes by, no time to cry, last you and I a lot, baby. The listeners are where we belong Where the eagles cry On a mountain high The listeners are where we belong Up and wide we know Where the clear winds blow Well, lookers are where we belong Where the eagles cry On a mountain high There's talk on the street It sounds so familiar Great expectations Everybody's watching you People you meet They all seem to know you Even your old friends Treat you like you're something new Johnny, come lately The new kid in town Everybody loves you So don't let them down You look in her eyes, the music begins to play Hopeless romantics, here we go again But after a while, you look in the other way It's those restless hearts that never meant Johnny come lately The new kid in town Will she still love you When you're not around There are so many things You should have told her But night after night You're willing to hold her Just hold her Tears on your shoulder There's talk on the street It's there to remind you It doesn't really matter Which side you're on You're walking away And they're talking behind you They will never forget you Till somebody new comes along Where you've been lately There's a new kid in town Everybody loves him, don't they? And he's holding hands And you're still alive There's a new kid in town Just another new kid in town Everybody's talking about the new town Everybody's walking like the new town There's a new kid down I don't want to hear it There's a new kid in town. I don't want to hear it out. There's a new kid in town. There's a new kid in town. There's a new kid in town. Everybody's talking. There's a new kid in town. People started walking. There's a new kid in town. There's a new kid in town. There's a new killing down Maybe I'll treat you quite as good as I should. Maybe I'll love you quite as often as I could. Little things I should have said and done. I never took the time. You were always on my mind. You were always on my mind. Maybe I was in front of you. All those little bit of a time. And I guess I never told you. I'm so happy that you're mine. If I made you feel so embarrassed. I'm so sorry about this problem. You were always on my mind You were always on my mind Tell me Tell me that your sweet love has been died Give me One more chance to keep you satisfied Satisfied I love you. Thank you. Always on my mind Maybe I didn't treat you Quite as good as I should Maybe I didn't love you Quite as often as I could Maybe I didn't quote you Oh, it's a little late time I guess I never told you I'm so happy that you're mine I took off for a weekend last month Just to try and recall the whole year All of the faces and all of the places Wondering where they all disappeared I didn't ponder the question too long I was hungry and went out for a bite Ran into a chum with a bottle of rum And we wound up drinking all night It's those changes in attitudes Changes in attitudes Nothing remains quite the same All of our running and all of our cunning If we couldn't laugh, we would all go insane Meeting departure signs in some big airport Reminds me of the places I've been Visions of good times that brought so much pleasure Makes me want to go back again If it suddenly ended tomorrow I could somehow adjust to the fall Good times and riches and son of a bitch As I've seen more than I can recall These changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes Nothing remains quite the same Through all of the islands and all of the highlands If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane I think about Paris when I'm hungry and wide I wish I could jump on a plane So many nights I just dream of the ocean God, I wish I was sailing again Oh, yesterday's over my shoulder So I can't look back for too long There's just too much to see waiting in front of me And I know that I just can't go wrong With these changes in attitude, changes in attitude Nothing remains quite the same With all of my running and all of my cunning If I couldn't laugh, I just would go insane If we couldn't laugh, we just would go insane We weren't all crazy, we would go insane You better watch what you say You better watch what you do to me You fucking get it away Girl, if you can do better than me Yeah, I'm bold But remember But love is hard to find But love is hard to find You got lucky things You got lucky things When I found you You put a hand on my cheek And then you turn your eyes away If you don't feel complete If I don't take you on the way Then hold Yeah, hold Remember People in love is hard to find People in love is hard to find You got lucky, babe You got lucky, babe When I found you Yeah, I'm cold Just cold Now remember But love is hard to find But love is hard to find You got lucky in me You got lucky in me Well, I found you Thank you. Out from the wreckage Can't make the same mistake this time We are the children The last generation We are the ones standing behind And I wonder when we are ever gonna change Living under the fear Till nothing else we find We don't need another hero We don't need to know the way home All we want is what we are Looking for something We can rely on There's got to be something better out there Love and compassion. That day is coming. All else are castles building the air. And I wonder what way are ever gonna change. Thank you. So what do we do in our lives? We leave our way from our... Will our stories shine like a light? For in this dark, is it all or nothing? We don't need another hero We don't need to know the way home All we want is life beyond Underdome All that you say We don't need another hero We don't need another hero All we want is life beyond Underdog This is the day of the expanding man That shape is my shape There where I used to stand It seems like only yesterday I gazed through the glass At ramblers, wild gamblers That's all in the past You call me a fool You say it's a crazy scheme This one's for real I already bought the dream So useless to ask me why Throw a kiss and say