# Council Work Session - October 6, 2009 > Auto-transcribed civic record · Council · October 6, 2009 - **Permalink**: https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/meeting/1054 - **Source video**: https://lfucg.granicus.com/player/clip/1054?view_id=14&redirect=true - **Date**: 2009-10-06 - **Body**: Council - **Last revised**: June 18, 2026 - **Length**: 24,924 words > ⚠️ **Auto-generated content.** Audio from the official Granicus video was auto-transcribed by OpenAI Whisper-1. Structured facts were extracted with GPT-4o; the narrative summary was written by Anthropic Claude Sonnet. Speaker labels and verbatim wording may contain errors. See [methodology](https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/about/methodology) or [report a correction](mailto:editor@lexingtonky.news). --- ## Meeting Overview The City Council convened with the Mayor presiding over a session that covered a broad range of municipal business. The meeting featured 9 agenda items, the majority of which were informational in nature, spanning topics from a junior fire chief introduction to updates on the Census 2010 effort and the ongoing Streetscapes project. Of the 9 agenda items, one item — the Vacant Property Review Commission — resulted in a formal approval, while the remaining items were presented for the Council's information. In total, 9 motions and votes were recorded during the session. The meeting included 2 public comments, including dedicated comment on the Streetscapes project. Committee reports were delivered from several bodies, including the Water Resource Oversight Committee, the Outside Agency Oversight Committee, the Budget and Finance Committee, and the Committee of the Whole, reflecting a wide scope of ongoing municipal oversight activity. ## Attendance All eleven Council Members were present at the October 6, 2009 meeting. No members were recorded as absent or late. **Present:** - Council Member Crosby - Council Member Blues - Council Member Beard - Council Member Ellinger - Council Member Lawless - Council Member Myers - Council Member McCord - Council Member Stennet - Council Member James - Council Member Gorton - Council Member Hinson ## Votes and Decisions All votes at the October 6, 2009 Council meeting passed by voice vote. No roll call votes were recorded, and individual vote counts are not available. - **Agenda Amendment** [timestamp: 0:02]: On a motion by Council Member Crosby, the Council voted to amend the agenda to allow the fire department to introduce the junior fire chief first. Passed by voice vote. - **Approval of September 29th Summary** [timestamp: 20:06]: Council Member Blues moved, and Council Member Crosby seconded, to approve the September 29th summary. Passed by voice vote. - **Approval of New Business Items** [timestamp: 20:37]: Council Member Beard moved, and Council Member Crosby seconded, to approve new business items. Passed by voice vote. - **Amendment to New Business Item E** [timestamp: 22:22]: Council Member Blues moved, and Council Member Myers seconded, to amend Item E in new business to correct the number of trucks from 5 to 24. Passed by voice vote. - **Special Meeting for Showprop TIF Public Hearing** [timestamp: 1:03:29]: Council Member Ellinger moved, and Council Member Myers seconded, to set a special meeting for October 27th for a public hearing on the Showprop TIF project. Passed by voice vote. - **Vacant Property Review Commission Ordinance** [timestamp: 1:08:28]: Council Member Crosby moved, and Council Member Feigel seconded, to add the draft ordinance for the Vacant Property Review Commission to the docket. Passed by voice vote. - **South Limestone Project Work Hours** [timestamp: 1:53:28]: Council Member Stennet moved, and Council Member Lawless seconded, to request a plan to extend work hours on the South Limestone project to 10:00 or 11:00 PM. Passed by voice vote. - **Amendment to Ordinance 137-2009 (Corridors Commission)** [timestamp: 2:13:29]: Council Member Beard moved, and Council Member Ellinger seconded, to add an amendment to Ordinance 137-2009 regarding the Corridors Commission to the docket. Passed by voice vote. - **Neighborhood Development Fund** [timestamp: 2:17:33]: Council Member Ellinger moved, and Council Member Crosby seconded, to approve the Neighborhood Development Fund. Passed by voice vote. ## Public Comment Two members of the public addressed the Council during the October 6, 2009 meeting, both speaking to issues related to ongoing street construction in the South Limestone corridor. - **Rob Morris** [timestamp: 0:06:35] opened public comment by raising concerns about the **South Limestone Streetscapes Project** and its economic consequences for local businesses. Morris cited significant business losses resulting from the disruption caused by the project and urged the Council to take action to address the impact on affected businesses. - **Mr. Cirigliano** [timestamp: 2:30:14] also spoke to the **South Limestone Project**, but offered a contrasting perspective. He commended city officials for their responsiveness in handling the project and pushed back on criticism from the business community, noting that many of those currently complaining about the project's impact had not attended planning meetings held prior to construction. Together, the comments reflected a divide in public opinion on the South Limestone Streetscapes Project — with concerns about economic harm on one side, and a defense of the city's planning process on the other. ## Contested Items **South Limestone Streetscapes Project** The South Limestone Streetscapes Project generated heated discussion among council members and local business owners. The debate centered on the project's impact on businesses in the affected area and questions about whether the terms of the contract were being properly followed. Business owners expressed frustration over disruptions caused by the project, while council members pressed on the need for compliance with contractual obligations. The record does not indicate a final resolution was reached during this portion of the meeting. **TIF Project Approval Process** Council members engaged in a contentious debate over the Tax Increment Financing (TIF) project approval process. The disagreement focused on the timing of moving the project forward, its economic viability, and whether sufficient public input had been gathered before proceeding. Some members raised concerns that advancing the project at this stage was premature given the economic climate and the level of community engagement that had taken place. The discussion reflected broader tensions over how and when major financing decisions should be brought to a vote. No clear outcome is indicated in the available record from this portion of the meeting. ## Introduction of Junior Fire Chief [timestamp: 02:48] Battalion Chief Marshall Griggs appeared before the Council to introduce the Junior Fire Chief, Ben Setlak. Following his introduction, Ben Setlak addressed the Council directly, sharing fire safety tips as part of the presentation. This item was informational in nature, with no action or vote required from the Council. ## Public Comment on Streetscapes Project [timestamp: 06:35] During this portion of the meeting, the Council received public comment regarding the South Limestone Streetscapes Project. **Key Speaker:** Rob Morris Rob Morris addressed the Council to raise concerns about the economic impact of the South Limestone Streetscapes Project. Morris spoke to the negative disruption the project has caused, urging the Council to take action to address the situation. - **Project in question:** South Limestone Streetscapes Project - **Concerns raised:** Negative economic impact resulting from the project's disruption - **Request to Council:** That the Council take steps to address the disruption caused by the ongoing project No formal action was taken on this item. The discussion was informational in nature, serving as an opportunity for a member of the public to bring concerns directly to the Council's attention. ## Water Resource Oversight Committee Report [timestamp: 22:52] Council Member Blues presented a report on the Water Resource Oversight Committee's most recent meeting. The report covered two primary areas of discussion: budget and financial information, and updates on current construction projects. No additional details were provided regarding the specific figures discussed in the financial briefing or the particular construction projects reviewed by the committee. The report was informational in nature, and no action was taken by the Council as a result of the presentation. ## Outside Agency Oversight Committee Report [timestamp: 25:10] Council Member Myers presented the report from the Outside Agency Oversight Committee, covering two primary recommendations from the committee. **Key Recommendations:** - **Regular meetings of the Economic Development Task Force:** The committee recommended that the Economic Development Task Force hold regular meetings going forward. - **Renaming the committee:** The committee proposed renaming itself the **Partner Agency Oversight Committee**, reflecting a shift in how the body characterizes its relationship with the outside agencies it oversees. The item was informational in nature, and no formal vote or action was taken by the Council at this time. ## Budget and Finance Committee Report [timestamp: 27:19] Council Member Stennet delivered the Budget and Finance Committee Report, covering several financial topics before the Council. The report addressed the following areas: - **Revenue and Expenditures:** Council Member Stennet provided an update on the town's current revenue and expenditure status. - **Fiscal Year 2009 Audit:** The committee discussed the audit for fiscal year 2009, with Council Member Stennet presenting relevant findings or progress to the full Council. - **Business Occupational License Fee:** The committee held discussions regarding the business occupational license fee, though no final action was indicated as part of this report. The presentation was informational in nature, with no votes or binding decisions recorded as an outcome of this agenda item. ## Committee of the Whole Report [timestamp: 32:09] Council Member Ellinger delivered the Committee of the Whole Report, providing an update on discussions related to a Tax Increment Financing (TIF) project. The report centered on the SHOPROP Lexington Development Area, which had been a subject of committee deliberation. Ellinger noted that the committee's discussion included the need to schedule a public hearing in connection with the TIF project. No final action was taken as a result of this report; it was presented to the full Council for informational purposes. ## Vacant Property Review Commission [timestamp: 1:06:45] Council Member Crosby led the discussion on this agenda item, which focused on the reactivation of the Vacant Property Review Commission and proposed amendments to the relevant ordinance. Council Member Crosby presented the case for bringing the commission back into active status, along with proposed ordinance amendments connected to its reactivation. The specifics of those amendments were discussed as part of the item. The Council approved the item as presented. ## Census 2010 Update [timestamp: 1:13:06] Benjamin Johnson from the US Census Bureau presented an update to the Council on preparations and priorities for the 2010 Census. Johnson emphasized the importance of achieving an accurate population count, highlighting two primary reasons the census matters for communities: - **Federal funding:** Census data is used to determine the allocation of federal dollars to states and localities, meaning an undercount could result in a community receiving fewer resources than it is entitled to. - **Political representation:** Population figures from the census are used to apportion congressional seats and draw district boundaries, making an accurate count critical for ensuring proper representation at the state and federal levels. The presentation was informational in nature, and no votes or formal actions were taken by the Council as a result. ## Streetscape Update [timestamp: 1:33:26] Harold Tate and Cleet Behnken presented an update on the downtown streetscape plan during this agenda item. The presentation focused on the Cheapside Park component of the streetscape project, and the speakers also addressed questions related to the South Limestone project. The item was informational in nature, with no vote or formal action taken by the Council. No additional details regarding specific design elements, timelines, costs, or concerns raised during the discussion are available from the provided materials. --- ## Decisions - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Amend the agenda to allow the fire department to introduce the junior fire chief first. - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Approve the September 29th summary. - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Approve new business items. - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Amend item E in new business to correct the number of trucks from 5 to 24. - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Set a special meeting for October 27th for a public hearing on the Showprop TIF project. - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Add the draft ordinance for the Vacant Property Review Commission to the docket. - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Request a plan to extend work hours on the South Limestone project to 10:00 or 11:00 PM. - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Add amendment to ordinance 137-2009 regarding the Corridors Commission to the docket. - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Approve the Neighborhood Development Fund. --- ## Full transcript Call a meeting to order, if we could, please. Council Member Crosby. Mayor, I'd like to make a motion. Um, I know there are a lot of people here, uh, from the public to speak on a few items on the agenda. And last year, when we had our junior fire chief here, uh, they had to sit for quite a while while the public spoke on items. So I was gonna make a motion, maybe if we could amend our, um, d- our agenda and, uh, let the fire department go ahead and introduce our junior fire chief so that- I second. ... he can get out of here if he needs to. We have a motion and second to amend the agenda. Is there any discussion? All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Oppose, no. Motion carries. So with that, uh, motion having been approved, let me welcome to the podium Battalion Chief Marshall Griggs, who will do the honors of the introduction. Thank you, Mayor. Appreciate, uh, appreciate you, uh, uh, having us up here and having us up here, uh, first. That, uh, is very nice as well. Uh, it's my pleasure to get to, to speak to you and introduce our, our junior fire chief, uh, this year. Uh, this is a program, uh, that we've, uh, instituted since 1959, uh, with our very first, uh, junior fire chief. And so it's a nice tradition we've, uh, got to, uh, continue and... So this year, uh, when we selected our junior fire chief, we did something a little different. In the past, we've always done a, an essay contest or something, uh, to that e- to that extent and this year, we thought we'd do something different. Uh, we tried, uh, a poster contest, uh, uh, just to, to mix things up and to allow an opportunity for more children. So this year, from Cassidy Elementary is, uh, where we selected our junior fire chief. And, uh, so I'd like to, uh, bring him up, b- bring him up now and introduce you to Ben Setlak. Ben, come on up. Ben is gonna, uh, he's got a, a prepared speech he's gonna share with you and we'd also like to show the poster while he, uh, reads that. There are many ways you can stay fire smart. Here are five that I think are really important and pretty easy to follow. First, you should have working smoke alarms on every floor in every bedroom of your house. Second, check to make sure you do not have damaged electrical cords because damaged cords can cause sparks and start rugs or other things around them on fire. Third, every family should have a f- family escape plan so that everyone in your home or apartment knows what to do or where to go if there is a fire. Fourth, you should make sure that your furnace and chimney are inspected each year because they can get dirty inside and catch fire. Fifth, you should make sure that your pot handles and stove, on the stove are turned inward so people walking by don't accidentally bump into the pots and burn themselves and so that they don't cause a grease fire from knocking the pot over into the stove flame. I hope people in our community find these to be helpful reminders and use them to stay fire smart. Don't get burned. Thank you. So, uh, those are the messages that, uh, Ben's been, uh, sharing, uh, with the community this week. Uh, he, uh, shared them yesterday and then, uh, got to participate in our fire prevention, uh, parade last night and, uh, so we certainly appreciate that. If you notice, all those themes really focus on the home and, uh, one of the reasons we're hitting that so hard is... ... uh, 80% of fire deaths don't happen in the home. They, or don't happen at, uh, work or at school where everyone practices their fire drills. They happen at home. So, we're really focusing on that. Not only these key things, but also having a, having an escape plan is one of the things he mentioned, and so we're just really encouraging families, uh, to do that, to, uh, do a fire drill at home, just like you would at school. Practice getting out and having a, a central place to meet. So, we appreciate the, your time and getting to, to meet Ben, and, uh, that's all we have. Thank you. Thank you very much. We appreciate you being here. Great job, Ben. All right, we'll return now to the agenda. The first item is public comment on issues on the agenda, and it looks as though I have two people who have indicated a desire to speak. Uh, first is Mr. Morris, Rob Morris. And, uh, Mr. Maher and Ms. Hannah and Ms. Vault are all donating time to Mr. Morris, is that correct? So, that would be ... total of 12 minutes that, uh, Mr. Morris would have. Mr. Morris? Okay. I'm, I'm Rob Morris. I am the owner of, of Lowell's and ... presentation's advancing automatically. Um, I'm the owner of, of Lowell's Independent Automotive. Uh, we're off of 111 Mechanic Street. Um, I also reside at 647 Mint Hill Lane in Lexington as well. Um, the, the reason that I'm here to talk with you today is about the Streetscapes Project. Um, I, I first started to kind of really absorb what was going on with the Streetscapes, uh, Streetscapes, uh, uh, ar- f- really from anecdotes from customers. Um, we started to get increasing complaints from our customers about traffic, especially after the High Street intersection was closed. We're, we're located s- just off of North Lime. Um, one older customer called us from Nicholasville, asked how to get here, and when she tried to get here the day before, doing a trial run, she couldn't make it. Um, then I started to hear anecdotes from other businesses as well. Uh, of course, you've heard about the South Limestone businesses, many of which are closing or letting employees go. Uh, we also heard from s- a similar business to ours that sales fell off a cliff in August and September. Um, then from a Festival Market business owner, we heard a frank assessment, and he started out the discussion with, "Business sucks." And, and so it raised a question for us, how many of our customers come from South Lexington? And then how many of those South Lexington customers have had an issue getting to us since South Limestone closed? We looked at six different ZIP codes in, in, uh, along either Nicholasville or Harrisburg Road, since those were the clogged arteries, and, and included Nicholasville in that assessment. And when we did, we, we noticed that South Side accomb- uh, accounted for about 30% of our customer base. And so, out of those 30%, after the closure, proportionally, we'd lost one third of those 30%. So, in, in essence, since July 22nd, a full one third of our South Lexington customers aren't coming to us anymore. That means, basically, that one tenth of our customer base has evaporated. The rest of our customer base, despite the economy, has stayed relatively stable. Now, the question for us was, if Lowell's has lost 10% of our customer base, we have an incredibly loyal customer base, w- what's the impact to all of downtown? Because this is no longer just the businesses on South Lyme, this is businesses all throughout downtown. And, sorry, this probably doesn't show up terribly well, but once you close South Lyme and you take the 25,000 vehicles that go down South Lyme and you push those over onto Harrisburg Road, and add that to the 36,000 vehicles that are already on Harrisburg Road and end up with 61,000 vehicles. And then you, uh, on top of that, you add the 19,000 vehicles on West Main and the diversions of that traffic, and the 7,000 vehicles on Old Frankfurt Pike and the diversions to that traffic. Pretty soon, you end up with 90,000 vehicles in disrupted traffic patterns. Accounts for about 20% of all of the, all of the commuters in Lexington are now in disrupted traffic patterns. And what that means is that, if you guess that those customers are spending about 45 minutes in traffic each day, to and from work, total of 45 minutes, that's about 5% of their waking hours. And that means, that's time that they're not buying at stores or restaurant, that's time that they're not working or producing, that's time that they're not delivering goods or services. It's also a quality of life issue, it's time that they're not spending with their family and friends. And if you start to extrapolate that to Lexington's economy, Lexington has r- roughly a billion-dollar economy. If you estimate, say, 8% of that business takes place downtown and a 5% hit to downtown businesses, either through customer rejection, lost productivity, or some other interruption to their business, interruption to supply chain, what have you. If you take those estimates, a-and they're relatively conservative, more, more of our business should be taking place downtown than 8%. Our business was impacted by 10%. 5%'s a pretty conservative estimate. That means that about $84 to $92 million are being lost due to the South Lime closure. So, $84 to $92 million lost due to South Lime's closure. If you start looking at that, that's 30, $360,000 per day lost due to the closure of South Lime. Or, translated a different way, during the year-long course of the project, that's about 700 to 1,000 jobs lost. And if you add that to the project costs, which are, depending on what the latest version is, $9 to $17 million of total project cost, we're talking about a project that basically accounts for $100 million, th- that costs Lexington $100 million. So, the question for you is, when will a beautified South Limestone return $100 million or 1,000 jobs to Lexington's economy? And you might be asking yourself a pretty obvious question: Are these numbers right? Are they a- anywhere close to accurate? Now, I'd suggest to you that's the wrong question to ask. The right question is to ask, how do we let ourselves vote for such a disruption to the local economy without any idea of the true impacts of that disruption? This weekend on Twitter, I had a rather tense exchange with, with Council Member Martin, and the gist of it, I won't go through all of it, but the gist of it was that, it had to do with, with, um, my, my complaints about, uh, the, the, um, traffic issues that we were seeing in the city. And basically, to sum up, Council Member Martin said, "Y- you need to transform from being a complainer to being a leader on these issues and building consensus around the issues." And it made me kind of furious because, in essence, what that was saying was, after, m- after getting punched in the face, I was supposed to be developing a, some sort of, of nosebleed plan. And, and so, i- i- the, the, the idea of building consensus around the South Limestone streetscapes is, is akin to telling the victim that they should have figured out how to deal with this in the first place. I shouldn't, I shouldn't be telling you how to fix or how to lead in doing something right with the South Limestone streetscapes. You should be figuring that out for yourself. It's been three weeks since business owners stood here and told you about the devastating impacts to their businesses on South Lime. It's been two weeks since many of you participated in a walking tour to see that devastation firsthand. And the question is, when will LFUCG address the million, $100 million hole in our city? On South Limestone, uh, uh, despite the fact that I shouldn't be here telling you what to do, it's obvious that you're not gonna take action soon. So I'll tell you what you should do. Commissioner Webb and Project Manager Milligan have already identified how we should be accelerating this project. They just said they're not willing to do so. Basically, they said, "Well, we could ask the utilities for more people and more effort, but that's kind of uncomfortable. And we could ask the cement company to stay open past 5:00 PM, but tha- that's uncomfortable too. And we could deal with noise ordinances and figure out a way to work around those, but that's kind of uncomfortable too." And my point would be, $100 million is at stake. 1,000 jobs are at stake. Get over your discomfort. Figure out a way to deal with South Lime that's much more productive than sitting back and waiting. And if, if Commissioner Webb and Project Manager Milligan aren't able to do that, find someone who is. When, when you talk to Mr. Tate and Mr. Bankin later on Cheapside, Vine, and Main, give full faith and credit to no one. I know last time, you gave full faith and credit to the mayor. I would suggest you don't give full faith and credit to the mayor, Leonard Lawson, or Mr. Tate. Only trust detailed plans of execution. And why I say that is, when you look at the South Lime corridor pictures, those are beautiful pictures. The problem is, this really isn't South Lime. When you look at the picture, these buildings don't exist. It's doubtful we'll have the gleaming marble sidewalks that are shown in the picture. When you look at the left side of the picture, those buildings don't exist either, and the vista of downtown towers don't exist. Essentially, we were seduced by really pretty pictures of what the streetscapes would look like without realizing that those buildings don't exist on South Limestone, and that streetscape won't exist either. When you look at actual pictures of South Limestone, you also notice that the street is narrower than is portrayed in those pictures. And the towers that you see are actually far off to the left. We've seen pretty pictures like this before, and we've also seen what those kinds of pretty pictures yield us. Uh, there are lots of questions you can ask. I'm not gonna spend time on this slide, but as you look at what, what, um, Mr. Tate and Mr. Behnken tell you, don't accept any of these things. Vague assurances about, um, what ... I, I'm sorry, it's not vague assurances. If, if they can't provide step-by-step details on how the project will unfold, that's a f- that's a failure. Mr. Morriss, you have about 30 seconds. Okay. I'll finish in 30 seconds. If they can't provide an estimate of the true economic disruption caused by these streetscapes, that's also a failure. If they just give you pretty pictures and they don't give you details on how the project will unfold, that's a failure. If they give you vague assurances, uh, that we won't disrupt businesses, all you have to do is look at Beth Hannah's business and the disruptions they've gotten twice in the last week. That's a failure as well. Don't accept no economic estimates on this. Don't accept lack of detail. Don't accept pretty pictures or vague assurances. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Morriss. The next person I have who has, uh, signed up to speak is Mr. Sitter, Russ Sitter. All right. If you'll, uh, step to the podium, you'll have three minutes, Mr. Sitter. Sorry, I was here to yield my time to Mr. Morriss. All, all right. Thank you very much. Uh, does anyone else wish to address the council on any matters that are on today's agenda? All right. We'll proceed then. We don't have a docket to approve. We do have a summary to approve from September 29th. Is there a motion? Motion to approve. Second. Have a motion by Council Member Blues and a second by Council Member Crosby to approve the September 29th, uh, summary. Any discussion? All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Oppose, no? Motion carries. Uh, we don't have any budget amendments. We do have a small number of new business items today. Is there a motion? Move for approval. Second. Council Member Beard, it's moved the approval of the new business items. Council Member Crosby has seconded that motion. Any discussion? All in favor of approving the new business items in, please say aye. Aye. Oppose, no? Motion carries. Next item, uh- Mayor. Council Member Blues. Uh, Your, your microphone is not on, Council Member Blues. Uh, Mr. Green just informed me that there is an error on item E in new business. And the, uh, the number for procurement, uh, is not two trucks, but, uh, 24. The other ... The other number is, is, is, is correct as I understand it, but, uh, so I w- I would move to amend item E accordingly and correct that, uh, uh, that error. So moved. Second. I'm sorry, I didn't pick up on, on the correction. The correction is on item E line seven, uh, the number two should be, the number 20- Five. Or f- I'm sorry, five should be 24. Should be 24? Yes, sir. I'm sorry. All right. The motion is to amend item E to, uh, strike five and insert 24. Is there a second? Second. Have a second by Council Member Myers. Any discussion? All in favor, please say ... Uh, Council Member Lane. All right. I just wanna verify, in, in essence, we're approving 24 vehicles instead of five. Is that correct? Okay. That's a pretty major error. Agreed. Um, any further discussion? Those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Oppose, no? Motion carries. We're now ready for the Water Resource Oversight Committee report. Um, and I'm not sure who is bringing that report today. Doc- Council Member Blues. Thank you, Mayor. The, uh, verify resources Oversight Committee met on September 22nd. We received, uh, budget and financial information from Acting Commissioner O'Mara. Uh, that included a statement of revenues, expenses, and changes in net assets. And in the minutes that, uh, came to all council members, that is, uh, handout number 18. Also, the sanitary sewer system financial model, uh, that's handout 19. And this document provides data on current and projected projects through 2015, and shows bond projects that are anticipated to go to market this month amounting to $32.8 million. Uh, Water Quality, uh, Division Director Charlie Martin passed out an updated listing of current construction projects also included with the minutes. Uh, you will note that the projects highlighted in orange represent consent decree items. In his director's report, Mr. Martin noted that the consent decree requires the updating of the stormwater projects list. And he pointed out that with revenues that will be generated by the water quality management fee, we do have an opportunity to consider stormwater projects on a watershed basis as opposed to a piecemeal approach. And this question will be on the agenda for our October 20, or October 20th meeting. The committee briefly discussed the ad- advisability of creating a capital project management team to oversee all governmental infrastructure projects. I'll meet with Director Martin in the very near future on this issue and will report back to the committee at our next meeting. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you. Any questions for Council Member Blues? Very well. Uh, Council Member Myers. Thank you, Mayor. I'm gonna give an overview of the Outside Agency Oversight Committee, uh, report for October 1st and wanna thank my, my, uh, committee members and as well as the administration. Over the last, since 2005, this committee's worked hard to move from, uh, looking at the budget process with respect to the outside agencies to moving towards, uh, full oversight, which is what we intended to do in the very beginning. This administration has been very helpful in, in that process. Um, I've issued a report, several things are in the report, but for time's sake, um, I wanna say that we've got two recommendations that have come out of the committee and they are as follows. The committee recommends that there be a, a regular meeting of the Economic Development Task Force for at least the next six months. So moved. Second. We have a motion and second. Any discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed, no? Motion carries. Thank you, Mayor. And the second one is that we're gonna change the name of the outside, o- Outside Agency Oversight Committee, um, to reflect its true mission, and that's the Partner Agency Oversight Committee. So moved. Second. Have a motion by Council Member Myers and a second by Council Member Beard. Any discussion? Council Member Martin. Thank you, Mayor. Uh, Council Member Myers, can you repeat the motion please? Yes, and I'll give you a little background. Um, this administration when they came in, uh, they took a look at, at the fact that when we look at o- outside agencies, normally this government focused on social services, but there's also several outside agencies that don't have anything to do with social services. And so this administration began calling them partner agencies instead of outside agencies. And so we wanna change the name of the committee to reflect that. Any further discussion? Those in favor of the motion, please indicate by saying, "Aye." Aye. Opposed, no? Motion carries. Thank you, Mayor. And anyone who wants a copy of the report can contact my office. I'm sure it's in the packet today, too. So, um, thank you very much. Thank you. Council Member Stennet. Thank you, Mayor. Budget and Finance Committee met last Tuesday, September the 29th. And a- as always, we start off with our revenue, uh, discussion. Revenue updates as of August 2009 through, uh, August 31st, 2009 are as follows. The unemployment rate was down in Fayette County, whereas the building permits, uh, were also down for the month of August, which could be contributed to a seasonal, uh, building permit cycle. The top four revenue items that we look at, the payroll, the net business, uh, profits, the insurance, and the franchise, uh, fees, for the month of August alone were down 8.03% from last year, or $1.8 million. Year to date, we're down 0.4% compared to last year, or $134,000. And then as a percentage of the budget, we're down 1.18% of our budgeted revenue, or $405,679. Looking at the expenditure side of things, um, operating expenditures were down 28.8% or $2.745 million, uh, as compared to last year. Overall, total expenditures were down 2.9%, which include the debt service and capital, or 900, $964,000. Again, we're down 2.9% expenditures. Uh, revenue, we're down 0.4%, or $134,000. We also received a report on the audit from fiscal year 2009, which ended on June 30th. Uh, the current numbers, we have an ending undesignated fund balance of approximately $2.1 million. Our economic contingency fund, uh, ended a balance of $14.4 million. Uh, we're also currently saving for the 27th payroll period, which we expect to be here in sometime in 2017, coming up. We have a current balance in that account that we're saving for of $2.1 million. And then encumbered reserve, we have four, another $4 million, which brings the total fund balance from fiscal year 2009, again, unaudited of $23,372,997. That concludes the first item for discussion on our agenda. The second item, which we discuss once again and allow for public comment, was the business occupational license fee discussion. Again, Mr. O'Mayer stated during our discussion that this, this actual license has been around since the 1950s. We just recently, as part of our fiscal year 2008 budget, started charging the $100 fee. Um, we had several items for discussion in terms of changing that, um, doing away with the fee, possibly changing when we collect it. It will stay in committee until, uh, committee members have had a chance to work through that as well as we'll take additional public comment at any time on this item should we need to at our next Budget and Finance meeting. Um, last but not least was an update from the generalissimo recommendations from the council budget links. Uh, we heard recommendations from, um, or follow up on the recommendations from several of the committee chairs. We ended the meeting with a request for debt service, um- ... in terms of what we've approved the last two budgets, and that will come next Tuesday to work session from Mr. O'Mara. And our next meeting, it is to note that we will have our quarterly update from Commerce Lexington at that meeting as well, which was put into the Budget and Finance Committee back in May. So, meeting ended. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Council Member Stennet. Any questions for Council Member Stennet? Council Member Crosby? Council Member Stennet, I have a quick question. Will the occupational business license fee, will that be an agenda item for the next committee meeting, or will it just be kind of open-ended, or are y- you gonna have it on the agenda for the next meeting? Unless there's action to be taken against them or unless you know there's public comment that needs to be had. Right now, it's not on the agenda, but we can put it on there. Okay, thank you. Anything further? Council Member Beard? Um, Council Member, um, or Budget Chair Stennet, um, can we ask, um, uh, Finance to tell us when we had had the last increases and decreases in the occupation fee and the reasons why they occurred? Uh, I don't want to scare anybody about it, but I'm just, uh, somewhat curious about at what level, uh, that button ever gets pushed, and why it had gotten pushed in the past. And of course, then it was rolled back, but at the same time, uh, j- just a little information about that would be a h- help to me anyway. I assume you're talking about the net profit for businesses only, not payroll, or both? Payroll, both. Payroll and net profit? Yeah. I'm sure they would c- can provide that. I know we've had that information provided before. Okay. I'd, I'd love to see s- see that. Thank you. Very good. Thank you. Thank you. Anything further? All right. Uh, I believe Council Member Ellinger had a little, uh, information to relay from the Committee of the Whole meeting, so, uh, now might be an appropriate time. Thank you, Mayor. Uh, the Committee of the Whole met on October 1st at three o'clock. We did not have a quorum, but we did meet, and we did discuss, um, the item on the agenda, which was the TIF. And it was the TIF project, the SHOPROP, Lexington Development Area. And, and Joe Kelly gave the presentation. He stated this is... And I'll give a brief summary. I've passed out a summary, and also there is a, a letter from Mr. Parsons, um, dated today, and action steps to establish this SHOPROP, Lexington Development that have also included in your all's mailbox. But Mr. Kelly stated this is a 20 acre multi-use project on Anglin Avenue, that Mr. Kecorian, who is the developer, has agreed to pay for the consu- consultant fee and the administration fee that is due at the end of the process once the project is approved. Ms., um, Kris Westover, who is the attorney, gave a PowerPoint presentation of the overvi- overview of the project. She stated the proposed development will have 3,000 seat, 15 plex theater, bowling center, rental units, five-level parking garage, an amphitheater, and more. She stated that they hope to bury all the lines. That was a question that was asked from the council members with this project. Mr. Fa- um, John Ferris, gave an overview of the qualifying public infrastructure. The publicly infrastructure costs total $36 million. He stated the most excis- significant cost is the parking structure of $14.25 million. He stated that the state usually sets a cap for their dollars. He also stated that the state usually asks for a local contribution as well. He recommends priorit- prioritizing the qualifying public infrastructure list. And I think Mr. Kelly is here, and Ms. Westover's here also. And then, Mr. Kelly also stated that he'd like to get this application as soon as possible. As I said, included in here in the packet I put out, here is the action steps of what we need to do to go ahead and establish this development area as a TIF. And he stated that the administration would like the, the developer to use local contractors, and they have agreed to do this. Mr. Parsons, and this is just a summary of the action steps, said an application can't be turned in until all local approvals are in place. He stated to create a TIF, the development plan has to be completed. Then the council will have a public hearing on the development plan. In addition, there's a 30-day waiting period between the public hearing and the plan could be adopted. He stated assuming everything moves forward, the earliest an application could be submitted is late November. They have requested for me to set up a special meeting on October 27th for this public meeting, and that would get the application to Frankfort in early December. The next issue that we dealt with outside of the, the project SHOPROP was looking at, um, the pr- who pays for this. And Mr. Kelly had, gave us a letter that said he thought it was appropriate, and should have you understand that it is the developer's responsibility to pay the fees and costs. He stated if the project is successful, then the developer can recover the cost. This is an issue I think that we need to address, um, separately, um, in the council. And he stated the st- uh, the statute states the fees will be paid by the applicant, but does not state where the money has to come from. In discussions that we had, it looks like there's probably four options. Developers pay all the fees associa- associated with the project, the LFCUG pays, um, for the fees, you look at it case-by-case, or maybe you pay both of it. With that, I think I would ask Mr. Kelly if he would come up, and also Ms. Westover, if there are any questions, to, um, talk about the action steps that we need to, to establish the SHOPROP, Lexington Development Area. And as I said, I'll make a motion when we're through that we go ahead and has- have a special meeting October 27th, uh, for the public meeting. That was an excellent report. You, you, uh, hit all the high points. I don't have anything to add. I would, I would just reiterate that if you are inclined to do so, to set the public hearing for October the 27th would allow us to get the, uh, get the... Assuming you are in favor of moving the project forward, it would allow us to get it to Frankfort in early December, so that those folks can start working on it. Because, um... ... obviously the holidays come at the latter part of the month, and then the, uh, legislative session, uh, begins in, uh, January. This is a full session. It's a budget session, and the, uh, all the staff will be distracted by the legislature and the, uh, i- issues that'll be facing them. So, in order for us to get, uh, a bit of a head start, it would be nice to get it over there in early December, if at all possible. Questions for Council Member Ellinger or Mr. Kelley? Council Member James. Thank you, Mayor. Um, I'm not sure who should answer this, but one of the questions that I had for Mr. Parsons that time was about the bonding market, um- Yeah. ... for TIFFs, and he sounded as if it was not favorable at this time, so I wondered- True. ... where it... The pictures are pretty. Um, I wondered, the economic stability at this time, not just for the market, but for the market for cinema, bowling alley, the high rent, which I did not hear a response about the affordability and the, maybe, um, inclusion of affordable housing- Sure. ... units on the property. Um, but I think we do need to... Uh, it sounds like we're really caught up in establishing the process for moving forward, setting a date and everything, but we really haven't talked about whether it's a good project. Is there a demand for this project at this time? Yeah. Uh, and we fully expect that you'll want to have more discussion about that. We're just trying to get it on the calendar in, in the event that you do want to move forward with it, that we could get it over there, uh, the first of December. You know, the, the issue about, uh, the bond market relative to, to TIFF financing right now, um, it is not the best bond market for TIFFs at this moment. But we, as we've mentioned before, um, from the time the project's approved, and we would anticipate it would take the state maybe six months or, or so to either approve or not approve the project. Uh, we would anticipate that it's a good project and they will approve it. Um, from the time... You don't have to start the clock on your project then. Uh, you could, you can start the clock on the project at a later date if the e- economics are not good, if the economic climate's not good at that point. So, then when you start the clock on the project, then you have two years from that time to begin the project. And if the, for whatever reason, you're not ready within that two-year period, you can ask for another two-year extension from the state. So, in essence, we're talking about, um, if you needed the, the full amount of time, you're talking about probably four and a half years, four and a half to five years of time before you would have to, um, uh, enter the financing market. And, uh, I, I certainly anticipate and hope that the, uh, economy will be, uh, much better way before then so that the project could move forward. What's the benefit of doing it now? Well, the benefit of doing it now is to get the project approved, to get the process, uh, local process completed, so we can take it to Frankreich so they can approve it. And then, when the market does improve, he may have other financing available that, that would not require, necessarily, uh, TIFF funding for some of the infrastructure. I don't know that. But assuming that we wanna use the, the TIFF market for that, hopefully the market will, will have improved and we would be ready to move then. As opposed to waiting until the market, you know, improves and then going through the process and, and it taking a year, uh, to get, uh, through the process. Um, you've lost that much time. Okay. Um, did you have a response about the affordable housing? I would defer to M- Ms. Westover. Okay. Uh, if, if she is... She may not be in a position yet to d- to, uh, comment on that, but I'll defer to her. Just a couple points. There were several other questions that the council had about, um, uh, green infrastructure and that sort of thing, and we are preparing a response now. Uh, we've got a, a conference call scheduled for tomorrow. Uh, I would anticipate that we should have an answer to that in the very near future. Um, Mr. Krikourian is aware it's an issue. It's an issue involving more than one council member, and, um, uh, as I said, I hope to have a response. Certainly, if the council decided to take the step to set the public hearing, those are among the kinds of issues that could be discussed at that, at that hearing. Okay. Thank you. Um, I'll turn it back over, but, um, I will be voting no until I get those responses. I think that's something. We need to set priorities for our economic development in our city, and until we as a council start putting the request out for the things that we need, um, I don't think we should support it. Thank you. Council Member Lane. Uh, thank you, Mayor. I just, uh, wanted to sort of make a comment on this project. I think that we need... The council needs to thoroughly and adequately review this project and try to accelerate, uh, moving it forward because we don't want the actions of council to delay the progress of this project and could jeopardize the deal. Uh, maybe... I mean, here are things that could happen. Um, you know, the s- state legislature could change the TIFF, uh, legislation at the next, um, go-around or six months from now. ... and then this deal might not even be viable at that time. So I think delay is not good for the developer, it's not good for the city, and it jeopardizes a deal. The other thought, uh, I just want to throw out a, a numbers idea here, is that I don't know how much the inv- the inv, uh, developer has invested, but if they have five million invested in the land, and they're paying 5%, uh, interest on that, interest only, that's $250,000 per year, or over $20,000 a month. That is, you know, a cost being incurred in addition to legal fees, engineering development, architectural, et cetera. So, uh, the meter's running for the developer and the meter's running for the city. I would encourage us to, as I said, do a thorough and adequate review, but let's do it on a timely basis. Uh, thank you, Mayor. Thanks. Council Member McCord? Thank you, Mayor. I want to just publicly thank Mr. Kecorian for, uh, for this, looking at Lexington in this light and wanting to do something in Lexington. And I think as it was said earlier by, by our folks here, uh, how do you replace economic loss? It's, uh, through things like this, where someone from the outside wants to put economic, uh, investment into Lexington during the times that we're in. And I think, uh, I, I especially want to, uh, thank him for, for looking to bury power lines, looking to do things green, looking to hire local contractors, looking, uh, to preserve Tobacco Warehouse history. Uh, all of those things show me that, that this person is, uh, is extremely sensitive to some of the, the issues that we wrestle with. Why should this council move forward? Uh, because there is absolutely no guarantee that TIF or TIF in its fi- in its form right now will be around this time next year. As the General Assembly comes into session, you want to put this into their hand. Uh, you want to put this into Frankfurt's hands, uh, and, and let them make the decision that's gonna take well over a year, as we've seen. Um, so it is something that, uh, that all that we can do to move the process forward, uh, so that it can make, have those decisions made. What the council really needs to take up is not a matter of do we do this or not, is how are we gonna handle this TIF application fee? Because as Council Member Ellinger said, uh, there's about four different ways we could do it, and I think that this council, uh, at, at its earliest convenience, needs to take up that question so that we have a policy, uh, going forward, so that if people do want to do this, they know what we expect or, or, uh, what they should do. But the other reason, uh, the other, uh, point to Council Member James's, uh, question about the bond market and so forth like that, um, we need to know. You don't have to sell bonds. That is not something you have to do with a TIF. And as we've learned, uh, that whatever the lift is from this project, going from what it generates now, which is not very much, to what it ultimately will, uh, and certainly even during the construction phase, uh, y- once you start the clock ticking, Mr. Kelley, it's one of those things where we can choose as a government how we want to, to deal with that, if we want to sell bonds or not. So it's not an issue of what the bond market is doing right now, uh, because that's a decision, uh, for much later, and it's a decision that a council will make about how they want to deal with the revenue at that time. So I, I appreciate that, but I would point out that this council needs to take up the question specifically of, of that application fee, because right now we have a, a very schizophrenic way of looking at that that, uh, isn't very fair to, to folks walking through the door. And I think Council Member James is correct that, uh, you know, we need to know, uh, what it is that this council's going to say about economic development as it relates to TIF. Uh, and this is something that we can do. So I would, I would put, uh, ask that we would take up a motion as soon as we get done talking about this to, to address that specific question. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you. Council Member Crosby? I, I would just like to clarify with Council Member Ellinger, are you just asking for a public, a hearing on this subject? At this point, when, uh, we're done discussion, I'm gonna be making a motion that we set a special meeting October 27th for the public meeting, yes. Okay. So, so I guess my next question would be then, possibly for Mr. Kelley, if we, that doesn't tie us down to anything, is it? It's just our opportunity to get public input on whether or not they desire- That's correct. ... us to actually move forward. And I guess probably I would support this motion today so that we can hear. We've heard, um, from members of the community on the South Limestone Project and how they felt like they didn't get very much public input, and this, I think this is a perfect opportunity for us to hear from the community on what they want and what they expect and what their expectations are of us during this process. So I think since it doesn't tie us down in any way, shape, or form to actually supporting the project further down the road, I, I will support that motion. Thank you. Council Member Gorton? Thank you, Mayor. Mr. Kelley, hi. Um, couple questions. Um, is there a reason... Well, I guess first I ought to ask Ms. Westover, Chris, when you think you'll have the answers to your questions from the conference today. Uh, I think in the next couple days. Okay. Well- Very soon. Is there a reason, Joe, that we couldn't set this next week at work session? Is one week- Well- ... to set an October 27th public hearing if we're satisfied with the information? This, the, the notice and publication requirements for tax increment financing are quite onerous. Uh, a metes and bounds description of the entire property has to be published with the streets, the footprint. There are very difficult requirements, and I had a long conversation this morning with Susan Lamb, of course, of the Council Clerk's office, in terms of how long does it take to put that together? In addition, the newspaper requires at least one week's notice from the council clerk to get it in the newspaper. So in other words, if you waited till next week... ... probably, assuming the council did wanna go forward, we'd be talking about, uh, a public hearing and enactment if the council wanted to in mid-December, if not later. So, you don't think if we, if next week after hearing the answers to the questions, uh, we put this on for a public hearing October 22nd, you're saying that wouldn't work- Well- ... from the perspective of preparing the information? It, it, after the, if it said the 22nd, then there would have to be, um, it would have to be a- another week or more for the newspaper to get it. Susan has to do some things with it. And then between the public hearing and the actual ordinance enactment is a mandatory minimum 30-day period. So- Then you're getting into Thanksgiving, and um- So the week from today to next Tuesday, what will be done? Will the, will Susan Lamb be preparing the ad? Um- I- I'm simply asking what's the impact of waiting to get the answers? You said several council members had questions, and that's all I'm asking is next week, could we put it on for the same date? But I think what I- No, you could not because- ... 'cause there's not time. ... of the timing between Susan getting it, the newspaper publishing it, and then the minimum 7 to 20 days notice. So that wouldn't work. That would put it in November, and if you put it in November, then you're talking about if the council went ahead with it, had the hearing, and there was the 30-day, um, minimum time, you'd be talking about mid to late December when you're on break. Thank you. Thank you. Council member Beaird. Uh, thank you, Mayor. You know, we have so many opportunities as far as, as putting up the stop sign to stop something, but if we miss an opportunity to go forward, we've missed the opportunity forever. And, um, the analogy is that, uh, you drive out to Fayette Mall and you park your car, that does not mean you've gone in and shopped. And, um, so I would favor that we go forward. Thank you. Thank you. Council member Blues. I would, I would, uh, add to that, that as we, as we look at this, at, at this project and, and, and give it a thorough review, that we, we do want to, uh, recognize that, that this is gonna be a powerful eco- uh, economic development initiative of affordable housing is always desirable. Jobs are always desirable. Uh, the kind of revenues that are generated by such a, a project, uh, and the wages that are a consequence of it, uh, they bring affordability too. So it's a, it's a, it's a total picture question. And, and I don't think we should be evaluating it on, on, on one factor or another factor only. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you. Council member James. Thank you, Mayor. I, I do have so much respect for my council, for my colleagues around the horseshoe, and I know that we want opportunities for economic development. I know we talk about that we need these things, but I also know that there are so many times when we say, "I wish that we could have. I wish that we could have had this opportunity. I wish that..." And where I think stop signs are an annoyance, I know our neighborhoods really do appreciate stop signs, um, to slow the speed, um, and that's for public safety and for caution. And in this case, I think the caution that we have is we've talked extensively about our role as council members in economic development, and that we haven't had, we haven't been able to... Not just the desirables of affordable housing. It's not just a desire. It's a necessity, a need for it. It's shown as a need. So I think where I may be the affordable housing council member that always says that we need it, um, and I'm not saying I want it, I'm saying that it's needed based on the facts and the research that's been shown. So I don't wanna try to stop this project, but I want to make it we're bec- we're in bondage to this system of some kinda hypothetical that it may go away. We heard the same thing last year. Eh, I don't think that it's fair to say, "Let's hurry up and take this opportunity before it goes away." That's not fair to say. If the opportunity is not there when it, when it, it happens and when things are ready, that opportunity is gone. We just don't have that, and hopefully something else will be open, or maybe we need to advocate for extending and making sure that they don't. We can let the state know we're working on a TIFF project. But to say, "Let's not, the, the new legislators may get in there and it may be gone," that's the wrong way to pursue this, I believe. I think this is an opportunity. Um, we're, eh, you know, we have people speaking at the mic about their deadlines and the deadlines for posting this and doing that. What are our deadlines? What are our deadlines? What are the things that we as a council will say, "By this time, we need this form of economic development. By this time, we need this percentage of affordable housing in our city. By this time, we need TIFF projects that will respond to the needs of us and not look like we're begging and pleading for people to come and throw anything down our throats?" ... 'cause we need more movies and bowling alleys. I think that there are things that we need in this city that we can utilize these TIF projects, and we can negotiate. This gives us that ability to do that. I think we should know our power as council members, so I will vote against a public hearing/meeting, and we need to... if it does move forward, we need to clarify whether it's a hearing or a meeting. And we need to understand what that means, because we heard from some people about CenterPoint. And what did that mean? When they came and spoke, and they emailed and they called us, what did that mean? What were we listening to and listening for? So what's the purpose of any public meeting or hearing, and are we gonna heed what our citizens are telling us about it when they step forward? Are we gonna make changes based on that, or do we already have a preconceived idea that we wanna accept this because it looks good and shiny? Thank you. Thanks, Mayor Gray. Uh, thank you, Mayor. Um, I'm, I'm supporting this basically because I feel like that, um... Well, let me put it in context. I do feel like that we learned a lot in the, in the, um, effort that we took through the, um, TIF Committee, those who really worked and, and participated in it, and a lot of council members did. Um, I guess, to me, that would be the preferred method of continuing to examine the... to examine these. But since we made the decision to take it to the committee of the whole, um, I feel like that we still have the time, especially with the time that we've got with the public hearing, to examine and challenge and support to the extent that, you know, everybody feels they need to. So, that's, um, that's my view on it. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you. Councilman Gorton. I just had two process questions. Uh, what, at what meeting will the council discuss the information that Chris Westover brings us? Did you know, Mr. Ellinger? Y- you could discuss that at the work session next week, or- So it could be an item on the presentations for discussion. Would that be- Sure. Sure. That would be- I, I, I think that would be- ... definitely a good thing. Yeah. ... a good thing to set aside a specific discussion of the project, and the questions that were asked, and the answers that you're bringing. I, I would be delighted to come next week and discuss that wherever you would like it on the agenda or at any other time. Mayor, do you know if there's space, or Artie, do you know if there's space next week? Can we bump something or... ? Mr. Green is probably the most current person about the agenda for next week. If you could, uh, come up to the podium when you have a moment. And then, while he's coming, Vice Mayor, when, uh, it seems to me I do recall when we discussed the CenterPoint TIF that we did discuss the fact that we need to have a process in writing. Do we have that yet, as far as you know, or does anyone know if we have a TIF process? The process was to- We've kinda just left it. ... the process was to take it to the, the committee and to examine it that way, but this project was presented as needing to move, I guess, more... I can't remember exactly. Okay. How was it presented? That we needed to move it more s- quickly? That it should therefore go to the committee of the whole? Uh, let me elaborate on that just a little bit. There was some discussion among some members of the council about the desirability of having a process in place for the TIF. There was also some discussion among other council members about the fact that the nature of the TIF process was such that having flexibility for each project, uh, was more significant than having a process in place. I think the latter view was the one held by Mr. Parsons, who was advising the committee as we went through the process. The reason we came with the recommendation that the council consider dealing with this as the council of the whole as opposed to going back to the committee was, after we spent a considerable amount of time in the, um, TIF delegation, or, or whatever we wound up calling it, it was still necessary to educate everyone else on the council about the whole process prior to actually moving forward with either of those first two TIF applications. And so, when we came forward with this proposal three weeks ago, or whenever it was, uh, I think the proposal was, "We think it makes some sense to do it in the context of the committee as the wh- of the whole, so that everybody will have access to the information, but if the council prefers, we'd be glad to do the delegation process again." And the vote was to do the committee of the whole. And do you know, Mayor, are there other TIFs that you know about, none- Not, not at present. ... on the horizon? Now, that's not to say tomorrow one won't walk in the door, but we, we don't... I'm not aware of any others that are being seriously entertained at this point. Okay. So- We do have room on the 13th. Pardon me? We do have room on the 13th. All right. Ne- next Tuesday. Would that suit you, Ms. Westover? As I said, I would be delighted- Okay. Great. ... to address the council at any time on this, and I hope to have all the answers. If more questions arise, please let me know, and I'll try to prepare an answer, uh, insofar as I can for next Tuesday. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you. Councilmember Martin. Thank you, Mayor. One, one of the main goals of economic development i- is to make the economic pie bigger, to be able to, to bring more revenue into Lexington so that we as a city can do more. ... with additional revenues to Lexington, we can afford to do more projects or the things we want to do. Uh, certainly if we leave Angliana Avenue as it is, we're not gonna have any more revenues in Lexington, and we're not gonna be able to afford to do the things that we want to be able to do as a city to make city of Lexington better for, for all our residents. A community can afford to do more by attracting capital to the area, either by attracting investment or by creating products and services that are sold outside the state to bring new revenues to Lexington. Again, this makes the economic pie bigger. The more money we have in Lexington, the more revenues the city can generate from taxes, and the more we are able to do with those revenues, uh, to make the s- lives of our citizens better. I urge the, the council to approve this project. It's a great project. There's not many times you get $75 million projects knocking on your door. And, uh, I appreciate, I'm enthused about the project, and, and I hope that the council will give favorable consideration to this. Thank you. Thank you. Councilman of Blues. Thank you, Mayor. Uh, Ms. Westover indicated that if there were other questions that we might discuss too next, uh, next Tuesday, it would be good to bring them up and, and I suggest that, that maybe th- as, as well the, you know, the broader picture of the, the economic, uh, impact that a project in this, uh, in this reviving area of our city would be, would be helpful. Let's see that big picture to the extent that we can. Thank you. All right. Uh, Councilmember Ellinger. Well, I was gonna wait 'til everybody was done and then I was gonna make the motion. Mr. Beard, do you wa- wanna make a comment? One quick question. One quick question of Mr. Kelly. P- part of the process, uh, at least as I remember, is an economic, uh, analysis of, of the, of the impact of, of this. So we will be getting that anyway as part of our, a part of the process that's already prescribed for us. Actually, you've already received it. That was Mr. Ferris's report. Oh, okay. I, I've been a little out of pocket. I'm sorry. Yes, sir. I know you have. Glad to hear you're feeling better. Thank you. Uh, so you do have that economic analysis that has been provided to you if you... A- a- and it may need to be d- in more in depth or w- we can go further from it, but it is something we can work, start as a starting point anyway. Yes, sir. It's very well done. It's very detailed, and, uh, it's, uh, it's actually pretty easy to read, so. Okay, great. Th- that's even very rare. Thank you. Coun- Councilmember Ellinger. Thank you, Mayor. At this time, I'd like to make a motion that we set a special meeting October 27th at 3:00 for a public hearing for the Showprop TIF project. Second. I have motions and a second by Councilmember Meyers that we set a public hearing for October 27th at 3:00 for purposes of discussing the TIF application on Angliana Avenue. Any discussion? Those in favor, let it be known by saying "Aye." Aye. Those opposed, "No." Motion carries. And Mayor, one other thing that I brought up when I was, um, given the report. I think, and, and Mr. McCord raised that issue again, is that we need to decide how we want to, in the future, pay for the TIFs, and we're probably gonna either have to have another committee the whole or do this maybe in work session, but I think it's something that we wanna try to look at a, a standard for future TIFs to come through. And that was also discussed at the committee the whole. With that, I will say that was the report from the committee of the whole. Thank you, Mayor. L- let me, uh, just ask council while we've got everybody here, would that be an appropriate topic for discussion on the 27th? Is there any objection to taking that up that day? All right. Councilmember James. I don't necessarily have an objection, but I think we need professionals in the room, um, that can talk to us about incentives for economic development. Um, I know Councilmember Feigl and I attended a workshop at the, um, Kentucky Institute for Economic Development. It might be nice to have some of those experts in the room about what can be used as incentives. Um, tha- I mean, because I think what we've heard, uh, a- and no offense to anyone, but what we've heard are reasons why not to do it. And I think a- a lot of the cities that we've compared that to are cities that have other types of incentive programs in the, going on, and we don't have anything else. So, I- it's a false comparison. So I just want a broad, someone non-biased to speak on what incentives, uh, holistically we have. I think it's a deeper discussion than just TIF. It's about everything. It's about IRBs, TIF, um, percentages for minority contractors. It's a bunch of things that we need to discuss. So I don't know if that's the right day to do it, because it's more in depth than just TIF. So I would prefer to not do it that day. Yeah. Th- that's a pretty huge discussion. But, uh, to the extent any member of the council, um, would like to have someone present to participate in that discussion of the TIF, and specifically with the discussion of the question as to how we should deal with the various fees that are paid to the state. If you would try to get those names to Mr. Kelly sometime this week, and then we'll extend an invitation. I don't know whether or not they'll be available that particular time, but we can at least extend an invitation if there are particular individuals that, uh, you think would be helpful to have present. All right. If there's nothing further on that topic, we'll, uh, proceed to item E on the agenda, which is the vacant property review commission. Councilmember Crosby. Uh, thank you, Mayor. I'll try to be brief with my report out. Uh, basically, uh, during a council meeting, uh, the vice-mayor had appointed a task force to look at, uh, the fact that we didn't have an active vacant property commission. I guess we haven't had one for several years. And so, uh, this was actually chaired by Dr. Derek Paulson. My office staffed this, uh, task force. Uh, Commander Mark Barnard, uh, David O'Neil, who's our PVA, Council Member Feigel, uh, David Barbary, and myself, uh, served on this task force. And basically, what we did was we looked at, um, the code of ordinances dealing with the vacant property commission. All of you all got a copy of this, uh, prior to today. And we had a few, uh, council members give us some feedback, and there's gonna be a few changes that I'm gonna make to the ordinance today, um, to push it forward. Um, they're very minor changes and I'll go through them quickly. And I see that David's here as well, so if anybody has any further questions. But in section 1283, number three, it will be changed to say, um, a home builder or a person who owns rental property. And then in section 1283, number four, instead of saying, "One elected representative from a neighborhood association," it'll say, "A person holding an elected position in a neighborhood association." So those are the two changes that we have. And so, um, with that, I'd like to make a motion that, uh, we amend section 1282 of the Code of Ordinances of the Lexington-Fayette Urban County Government to clarify and further define the purpose of the Vacant Property Review Commission. Second. We have a motion by Council Member Crosby and a second by Council Member Fe- Feigel to, uh, add this proposed ordinance to the work session, uh, uh, to the council meeting docket. Council Member Crosby, is that, uh, where we wanna go with it? Uh, yes, sir. All right. Any discussion? All in favor of adding, um, this proposed ordinance to the docket for the next council meeting, let it be known by saying, "Aye." Aye. Opposed, "No." Motion carries. Thank you. Mayor? All right. Point of order, sorry. Council Member James. Um, Council Member Crosby, that was just to section 1282. Did you also need to make a motion for section 1283? Well, let me try to help out a little bit. Uh, although- Okay. ... it was an abbreviated description- Yeah. ... my impression was we were voting to add this draft ordinance with the two amendments that Council Member Crosby discussed to the docket. Yeah, I said 1283. I'm sorry. Sections three and four- Okay. Thank you. ... of 1283. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. All right. Thanks for pointing that issue out. All right. Uh, the next item on the agenda is going to be probably one of our shorter ones, but I think it may well be one of the more important ones. It's an opportunity to congratulate a, a, a couple of different groups of employees who have made, uh, some extra effort to help provide our citizens with, uh, better customer service. I think everybody would agree that even though we're in the private, uh, in the public sector, just like the private sector, it's important for us to try to serve our customers, the public, as well as we possibly can. And today, we are pausing to recognize 18 employees who have completed 15 to 20 hours of training through a program called The Winner Circle, that was developed by city employees through our Division of Human Resources. So let me just call their names out. And as I do, if you would just please stand where you are. Not all of these folks could be with us today, but I wanted to, to recognize those who are, and at least read the names of those who've gone through the program. Phyllis Arnold, Margaret Ballard, Julie Brown. I know Julie, yes. Cynthia Cannon-Ferguson, Dianne Catlett, Shirley Cruz, MK Eads-King, Jean Gardner, Jada Griggs, Margie Keller, Diane Limondola, Patricia Lonea, Kevin Lynn, April Meadows, Gina Meyer, Patricia Prather, Cheryl Rodriguez, and Pat Smith. Thank you all very much for your over-and-above effort to provide good customer service for us. And now let me, uh, ask our Chief Information Officer, Rama Duaraha, to step to the podium, who has just a little additional, uh, recognition. Thank you, Mayor and council members. Today, uh, we are also recognizing six employees, uh, through our government who have done and who have been essential in helping Lexcall, uh, do its job this year. Lexcall 311 is our customer call center, and, uh, its 12 staff members, uh, handle thousands of call, uh, each month, and some- sometimes each day. Uh, the Lexcall staff wants to honor these six employees for their outstanding customer service, uh, and to express the staff appreciation for the support they provide. Frank Mapson, Patricia Smith, Angela Share, Valerie Thomas, Phyllis Arnold, and Pam Camel. You'll hear from- Thank you. Thank you. And I particularly wanna say a word of appreciation to Suzie Evans from Human Resources, who's in the back. She's been helping to lead the charge. Thanks so much. Now it's my pleasure to welcome to the podium Mr. Benjamin Johnson, who's here, uh, from the, uh, US Census to bring us an update on some various significant issues for our community in connection with the 2010 Census. Mr. Johnson and I talked three or four months ago, I guess, something like that, about, uh, some opportunities for Lexington, and I'm glad you have the chance to be with us today. I'll, uh, turn the podium over to you. Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity. Um, as the mayor said, my name is Ben Johnson. I am the team leader for the state of Kentucky, uh, for the 2010 Census effort. You've been hearing a lot about what's going on. Kind of wanted to give you some updates, a little bit of background, as well as present you all an opportunity to participate in this effort. Also want to acknowledge Council Member Blues and Council Member James who have, um, been helpful to our efforts and invited us to participate in some of their community events. But in a nutshell, what we are undertaking now is a tremendous national event. The census happens once every 10 years, and those are the numbers that we end up having to deal with for that 10-year period. The next census will take place April 1 of 2010. It's Census Day. The forms will go out in the mail. It is a mail-out, mail-back process where we will be sending a census form to every household in this country, which is over 100 million. I wanted to point out something very important there. You all should have a copy, but this form that I'm holding up is a informational copy of the census form. And if you happen to live by yourself, this first page is your entire census. You will hear some information about how onerous it is, how long it is, how invasive it is, and it is not. Um, the census itself is a 10-question process for the person who fills it out, seven questions for anyone else in the household. So if there are three people in the household, your entire census form is one 8 1/2 by 11 piece of paper, front and back. Take approximately 10 minutes to fill that out. And that's just one of the things that we have to get out to people. We also want everyone to understand that the census is 100% confidential. Census employees undergo a background check first and then take a lifetime federal oath to keep that information confidential, not for the duration of your employment because we have a tremendously large staff that will all go away next year, myself included. We are coming on for this special project. When the project is over, we go back to what I call civilian life. But I have worked for the Census Bureau twice. I have taken two lifetime oaths. You only get one lifetime, but if you walk out the door and come back, you take the oath again. And we have to do that because when you're asking for household information, we want people to be absolutely comfortable with the fact that their information will be used in the most judicious and careful way that's possible. So we want to get that across to people as well. Also, very important that everyone understand that we count everybody. If you are residing in this country, if you are residing in this community, we need for you to be counted because there's been a lot of discussion that I've heard here today about development, about economic opportunities, about opportunity cost, about what will be lost, about the effects on your citizen, about the effects on your businesses. All of that is census information. When you're looking at roads and businesses and buildings, all of that is census information. What does your population look like and where do they live? Besides where do they live, where do they work? How do they get there? So everything that you do, everything that this council is charged to do can be benefited by having correct and accurate census information. So that's why I'm coming before you today to ask for your assistance in reaching your constituents, reaching the residents of Lexington to help with this process. Also, in your packets, you have two other pieces of information. One is called a partnership agreement. What that does, that gives you some ideas of some things that you can do. Again, some members of this council have already done that, providing us speaking opportunities, letting us get bef- get before your constituents. We can work with businesses. You can do website links. Some things that do not cost a thing, but what we're hoping to have happen is people will become so familiar with the census process that they will decide, "You know what? It is important. I need to be counted." So there are a lot of things that you all can do in your regular course of business. And you can look through that partnership agreement and say, "Yeah, you know what? We're having an event and since we all can come out and participate in that event." I have an electronic newsletter. I will put some census information in that newsletter and different things like that, that will be of tremendous benefit to us because, again, we're federal employees. We're here and we're gone, but you all sit where you sit because your constituents say, "We want you to represent us." So your word and your, uh, uh, participation will go a long way in helping us get that done. Also, you have something in there about a Complete Count Committee. What that is, that is a document which will show you how to organize a group, again, of your constituents to say, "We wanna make sure that everyone in our district is counted." I'm working with some persons out of the mayor's office to put together a Complete Count Committee for the city at large. But if you wanted to take that a step further and really involve persons and organizations in your districts, you can do that. We work with the library system. We work with the public school systems. We work with businesses. We work with other organizations, faith-based institutions because there is a role that every organization can play in making sure that we have a full and accurate accounting for the 2010 Census. There has been a lot of talk here about economics. A couple of quick numbers about the economics of the census. Over $435 billion is allocated by the federal government every year, based in large part on census counts. And you're talking about TIFs and ERV's and, you know, CDBG and on and on and on. A lot of that is based on population. You have to have a certain threshold of population to even be eligible. The only thing worse than not reaching that threshold is actually reaching that threshold, but not knowing it. Then all of a sudden, things that you are eligible for, you do not even have the opportunity to apply for. So you have to keep that in mind. Also, again, I said the census will be conducted mail out mail back. Early mid-March, the forms go out in the mail. We're asking people to fill those out, send those back, and you're done. On a national level, for every 1% that we increase the mail-back response rate, that saves $90 million. So again, we can use your assistance and having your constituents understand that irregardless of party, irregardless of politics, the census will happen, because it's happened every 10 years since 1790. It is mandated in the Constitution. But that is something that each of us can do individually to help either defray those costs or have that $90 million per 1%. And there is no economies of scale. If we increase the mail-back response rate by 5%, that's five times $90 million. So we wanna make sure that people understand that. And that's something that, again, we can all do individually to help make sure we have a complete and accurate accounting of who's in our population, but also defray the cost. And again, we all know that there are much better ways that money can be spent than repeating a process. You will get a form in the mail. If you do not send it back, you will probably get another form. That's a cost we really don't have to spend. If you do not respond then, you will absolutely have someone knock on your door. That is a federal mandate, because we have to conduct a full enumeration. There is no sampling, there are no adjustments. So we want people to understand how this process works. And again, there's only 10 questions and it's name, age, race, gender, ethnicity, relation to other people in your household. There's a phone number if we don't understand your form and tenure, do you rent or own? That's pretty much it. No citizenship question, no social security number. My father's name is Ben Johnson, my name is Ben Johnson, and my son's name is Ben Johnson. We live in three different cities. I'm sure there are a few more Ben Johnsons somewhere in the country. Without a social security number, we could all be the same person and it won't matter. So the information cannot be used in a way that harms you. And then don't forget, we still have that federal oath that we take, the penalties for violating which are up to a $250,000 fine and up to five years in federal prison because this is a federal job, which makes it a federal crime. And I don't know of anybody who works for the Census Bureau who's willing to take that chance. So we really just wanted to come out and kind of give you that little bit of an update. Um, the person who works particularly in this community is Michelle Ellison. She is here. Thank you, Michelle. Uh, she's, she handles the Lexington, Fayette, and the surrounding counties. She's working with other communities to do the same thing, but we realize that Lexington is, is really the hub in this part of the state. So as Lexington goes, we expect some of the other areas will do so we're really looking for you all to take a leadership role in helping us put forth this effort. Again, Michelle is constantly available to you all. Like I said, we're working with the mayor's office on a large complete count committee, but I think if each district were to establish a complete count committee, what that would really do is bring your constituents together. We also working with the school systems and so forth. So that's really a way to take part in this large national effort. They will hear about that quite a bit. We have a curriculum in the schools that a lot of students are using, and we try to do some fun, creative things. We were at Roots and Heritage, we're going to be at a Latino festival. Uh, Michelle has done with some of her assistants almost every festival in this community for the past six to eight months she's been at, because we want people to be, to be aware of what we're doing and understand how important it is to them individually and then to our community collectively. And one of the other things that we like to point out is that if you're here, you need to be counted here. UK students count here. Transylvanian students count here. A lot of people feel like for college students, home is where mom and dad is, where I go on break. They spend the bulk of a calendar year in Lexington, so they need to be counted in Lexington. That's where they spend their money. That's where you want to provide their services. And again, census information is used all day, every day, whether you're talking about your fire districts, your police districts, your hospital rooms, um, entertainment and so forth. So we really need to make sure that we have an accurate and complete accounting there. We're working directly with the University of Kentucky on some things with their student body. We work with anybody and everybody, anywhere, everywhere, anytime, all the time. I rip and run throughout the whole state. I've been here enough that I probably should be paying taxes, but I'm glad nobody's asked me that yet. Um, but I'm contributing to the economy, even coming back and forth here. So we just want you to understand how extremely important it is, and we are really looking to you to help lead this effort because Washington, DC seems so far away to people. Some people in Lexington don't even like to go to Frankfurt, but they live in and love Lexington. So we want to make sure that those persons who have that dedication to this city will understand how important it is for this city and for your future. Because if we get it wrong in 2010, the lights go on in 2012, there's nothing you can do until 2020. It doesn't make a difference. This is not like a political season where two years, love 'em or hate 'em, you keep 'em or get 'em out, four years, another election rolls around. ... 10 years, we are having to live with these numbers, and there's nothing that anybody can do about that. So we really have to get it right in 2010 so that you have good information to make the decisions that you have to make on a daily basis and serve your constituencies. So first and foremost, those Complete Count Committees will be a tremendous effort, and it involves the grassroots constituency. And then after that, their partnership agreement, which will also get you in our system in Charlotte, where we're based, to get some updates via email, also snail mail. And then also through that partnership agreement, you can work with our staff to say, "We have this going on, we have that going on. We can help you this way, that way." Emails, newsletters, speaking engagements, community service, on and on and on. So I thank you for your time and look forward to working with all of you. Thank you very much, Mr. Johnson. Um, I'm sure several folks are gonna have questions for you. But I wanted to, uh, let the council know that I have sent request a number of individuals asking them to serve on a Complete Count Committee for Lexington. I think your suggestion about the prospects of having Complete Count Committees within council districts would be, uh, uh, one that would be especially good. And we have some council districts that have a disproportionately high number of the hard-to-reach members of our community. Um, certainly low-income folks generally are difficult to reach. Uh, students are hard to reach. Members of our Latino commi- community are hard to reach. Uh, homeless folks are hard to, hard to count. So if you have any of those constituencies, or for that matter, any other group in your, uh, your, uh, um, district that you think might be particularly good to reach out to, please, uh, either let us know or work with us to create a, a Complete Count Committee by district. Let me ask you one thing that is somewhat unique to Lexington. It so happens that, uh, either the Keeneland Meet will be underway or about to start, and there are a number of people who move from one racetrack to the next. Um, if they are here on April 1st, are they counted here, or does it go to where they spend most of their time? That is a very gray area. And we, we do face that in, in a number of communities. Um, and it... Because actually, sometimes that question is answered both, and it really depends on, on the length of time that they will be somewhere. The, the challenge there is, wherever they are, they will be using services. But, you know, I'm hearing here in the Lexington community that your, you know, your migrant population, your Hispanic/Latino population is becoming a little more settled, if you will, and not moving quite as frequently or quite as often. So if they're here, then more often than not, they need to be counted here. I'm working directly with the Migrant Network Coalition to try to figure out and find out exactly what's going on. I've met with the, uh, the, uh, head of the Housing Authority here, working with the Black Church Coalition. Great. So we do have some particular outreach into some of those hard, harder-to-count, harder-to-enumerate communities, working with PG Peoples, of course. Um, and any other individuals or organizations that you are aware of that we need to be working with and particularly seeking out to, again, have them advocate on our behalf to their constituency and say, "It is safe, it is important." And the irony there, Migrant Network Coalition, they can only advocate for the number of people that are officially here. So if your population is nervous and sort of hide, they can't come to this body and say, "We have 10,000 that we need to set up, you know, bilingual telephone services for and ESL classes," but then you go online, look at the census information, and it shows 2,700. You're not gonna say, "Well, you know what? We take your word for it, it's 10,000." We are a numerically driven people, so we're trying to get that point across to those organizations that their abilities to help their constituency is magnified by having a complete and accurate census. And again, we're gonna be stuck with those numbers for 10 years, so we wanna make sure that we, um, that we do that. And real quickly, we also will have places throughout the community, and you helped us with this, called a Be Counted site, where we will just put census forms. If somebody thinks they did not receive one, they can pick those up. And again, we want high-traffic areas in each district in each community. We will have a Questionnaire Assistance Center located throughout the community, where people who have language challenges or literacy challenges can come and get help filling out their census forms as well. And the forms will be available in five languages in addition to English. So we are really trying to reach out to the entire community. Great. Cons- Council Member McCord? Uh, thank you, Mayor. And I thank you for what you said about there is nothing more than, that brings more money to a, uh, an area than an accurate census. And so if we talk economic development, i- it's all about getting these numbers right next year. My question is, you, you started in March in, in sending these things out. W- when is kind of the cutoff date? Does it go all the way to December 31st of next year? Absolutely not. December 31st of next year, the numbers will be on the President's desk. Okay. M- first, second week of March, the forms go out in the mail. April 1st is officially considered Census Day. The Bureau has not set a hard, fast deadline yet, but somewhere towards the end of April, obviously there has to be a cutoff, and that's when we start the door-to-door operations, which again, are not only more expensive, we tend to get less accurate information at that point too. Because if somebody comes knocking on your door and says, "I'm here from the federal government, I want to ask you a few questions and I'm here to help." You don't get the warmest response. So if people fill it out themselves and send it back, then we get better information at a less, at a lower cost. So when is the last time that, that the information is gathered up and, and taken in so it is on the President's desk in December? What, when is that? Again, that hasn't been determined because what happens, depending on the mail-back response rate determines our workload for going door-to-door. What we're hoping to do, get the mail-back response rate up, then the work, the door-to-door workload will be, will be decreased. But we, we also will be putting out on our website when it gets started response rates for an area, so you can also see how your area is doing 'cause we want people to be, to be fully aware- Great. ... of, of what we have going on. Thank you. Thank you. Council Member Myers. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Mr. Johnson, for coming in today. I had, uh, the privilege of chairing a complete, since it's complete count committee for the city of East St. Louis back in 2000. Oh, okay. So, I understand the task at hand and the importance of it. Um, I look at this list that we have in our packets here, um, and I see three or four things that I myself can do to help you out. We've got a, um, I've got an e-newsletter for the district that we can put your information in. Uh, Gainesway Community Center can be one of the drop sites- Sure. ... one of the information sites. Um, and then also what I wanted to do is make a motion today for the council that we, uh ... on here on your list it says, "Issue a public endorsement of the 2010 Census and send an endorsement to members, chapters, or affiliates." What I'd like to do is make it a motion that we put a resolution on the docket for our next Thursday night meeting, that we, uh, endorse the census for 2010 and then send a letter, um, and the company resolution to all of our partner agencies. Second. So moved. We have a motion and second to, uh, put on the agenda for the next council meeting an endorsement of the 2010 Census and request that that resolution be mailed to our partner agencies. Any discussion? Uh, I had a second by Council Member McCord. Um, any discussion? All in favor then please say, "Aye." Aye. Opposed, "No." Motion carries. And then if it would be appropriate, I don't know, I'd like to do a, a GTV3 spot with him if you haven't got something like that already planned. That'd be excellent. Okay, so we'll talk about that. Sure. And then I'd like you to see Mr. O'Meara at the end of the meeting when you head out because you talked about paying taxes here. Can you raise your hand, Mr. O'Meara? There you go. So he'll wanna talk to you on your way out the door. I'm spending all my per diem and plenty of hotel stays. Thank you very much. You did a great job- Thank you. ... today too. Thank you. Anything further? Thanks so much. Thank you. All right, let me now ask, uh, Mr. Tate and Mr. Behnken to come forward for streetscape update. Good afternoon. Uh, Harold Tate, Downtown Development Authority, and we're here to talk about the continuation on phase one on the downtown streetscape plan. We're here to answer any questions you may have, but the main purpose of today's meeting was to talk about the Cheapside Park component, which is the next thing that we'll be working on in terms of the streetscape itself. Uh, so I will turn it over here to Cleet so he can stu- start the presentation and then we'll be able to answer any questions you may have. Thank you. Thank you, Harold. Again, Cleet Behnken with Kinzler & Klein Gosman. I'll be brief and, uh, be happy to take any questions. Um, since the last time we presented to you back in June, we've had, uh, series of meetings. We had a public open house on July 29th in the first floor here in the ballroom, uh, where, um, we got, uh, uh, very good turnout, uh, lot of positive reaction to the overall, um, uh, in- initiative for the phase one streetscape work. Um, because of some timing, um, uh, uh, differences between the projects, I'm gonna give, I'm gonna lay out quickly, uh, what we're doing on the three projects that we're currently working on. Uh, on Main Street, um, it looks like we will complete construction documents in November. Uh, that project could move forward with your, uh, authorization, uh, in early 2010. Uh, Vine Street will be using some federal stimulus funding for green infrastructure enhancements. Uh, there is, as you can imagine, a, uh, review process that the state follows, uh, for that, um, the, the expenditure of those funds. The state is also very involved in the traffic, uh, and lane reconfiguration, uh, that is necessary for the, for the bike lanes that we will be, uh, bringing in. Um, because of that, we will m- need to submit those plans earlier, um, although Vine Street would likely not need to go to bid, uh, until, uh, around, uh, the first of the year as well. Uh, construction on that project could also start in early 2010. Uh, Cheapside, uh, is, uh, uh, uh, a bit of a quicker turn in that, uh, we would like to have the ability to open Cheapside for the April 2010 season. Um, we believe it is possible to do that. However, we will have to have, uh, your consent and blessing, uh, in order to do that. Um, I've heard, uh, a number of questions coming from folks, um, about, uh, bike lanes in recent, uh, days and, and weeks, and, um, I think it would, uh, be important for me to note that, uh, we are progressing to design the streets so that they can accommodate, uh, bicycles in both the one-way and two-way configuration. Um, so, uh, I, I know there has been discussion about that. Um, we have, um, obviously been doing a lot of work, and it's not feasible to present all of that work in the limited amount of time we have. Um, some of those examples are in the packet, and based on the amount of time that, that you have- ... uh, today and, and the, uh, the packed nature of the agenda, I won't go through all of those. Um, I will invite you to, to do so, um, and invite you to stop out in the, um, the atrium area out here, uh, to view the current drawings for the, uh, the Cheapside Pavilion Building. Um, it's my understanding that, uh, f- uh, corporate donor Fifth Third has stepped forward to, uh, offer to fund that building. There would be, uh, some recognition of that on the building. Um, there are a couple of, uh, section views, elevation views of our current, uh, state of progress in your packet. And again, uh, out there in the, uh, the gallery area where we have some more boards and we would certainly like to see you look at them and be happy to take any questions about them. With that, I'll turn it back over. All right, uh, Council Member Lawless. Thank you, Mayor. Um, first of all, I'd like to say, Clete, you have been a pleasure to work with and, um, very aware that you have nothing to do with how the South Limestone Project is going. That being said, um, I wanna thank Rob Morris for the incredible, uh ... and on the agenda it says we're discussing phase one of the streetscape and that's part of it. Um, for the very good, uh, presentation you made at the beginning of the meeting. It was excellent and informative. I think we're at a point where, um, we have got to demand that something be done differently. And, um, s- I'm so frustrated, so I can't imagine how the people whose livelihood is being challenged every single day on South Lime, um, must feel. When I first heard about it from a constituent who heard it from her landlord after it had already gone out to bid ... and, Clete, you can sit down now 'cause this doesn't have anything to do with you. Harold, you can stand up if you want. Uh, um, I found out about it after it had gone out to bid with a dig date right around the corner, and I talked to you and you said, "Oh, it'll probably only last about four months and one lane of traffic will be open." Uh, when it was put on the, the agenda for the council, there was absolutely nothing in the little blurb that would've, uh, indicated it was about South Lime and the extent of that project. And let me say, I absolutely support that project getting done. I do not support the fact that it was done when it was, how it was, and the way it was. And it is, just as I said when I was concerned about voting, and if I ever he- ... I don't think I'll ever regret a vote as much as I regret that one. And Mr. Morris, I won't be hoodwinked again. Thank you, V- Vice Mayor, for that term. Um, they're still not complying with the contract. They're still not, uh, they're not ... Uh, you know, the excuses of, "Well, we don't wanna ... uh, you can't get concrete after 4:30," which is not true, that they can't get materials that are all over the street, that they don't have time to put the heavy equipment up, that the, um, uh, the conditions are absolutely unforgivable and an embarrassment to this community. So I wanna make sure as we move forward, we know what we're getting into because this wasn't part of it. If it had been done, um, after the 2010 games and plenty of time for engineering and traffic studies and proper signage, um, and some warning while other projects weren't going on ... I had a, a constituent call me last week and lives on Mill Street and he could not find a way to get home and wanted to know if the city was gonna set up a service to deliver his groceries. Um, that's pretty bad. So, um, I'd like to meet with, uh, Kevin Wente, uh, as soon as possible so we can see what we can do about getting those utilities in there and out of there as quickly as possible. And I want ... we have got to have some way to speed this thing up and the, the excuses we're getting just don't work for me . And they don't work for the community and they don't work for good economic development. So, thank you. Council Member Blues. Thank you, Mayor. Uh, actually, this is a question for, for Clete. Uh, s- so, I know that, that, that you have worked on a, you know, a number of streetscape pro- type projects, uh, that this is not, uh, new to you, that you've done this in, in, in various cities and it's an ... you're not directly involved in the execution of the projects that, uh, that you design and, and, and recommend to municipalities, but perhaps you could give us some perspective, uh, drawing back a little bit from the, from the, you know, from the immediate- ... uh, that we face here, with, with reference to the, to this particular project. And, uh, and can you give us some perspective on the, uh ... Well, we, we hear a lot about the cost of doing this, this project, and the inconvenience, and, and, and the, uh, and the troubles that it, that it, that it causes, which, which they do. What about the, the corresponding, uh, benefits, the payoffs? Mm-hmm. Uh, that, that's, uh, the obvious question today. Um, and, and thank you for, for posing it. Um, you know, we, we deal with a lot of, uh, aging, um, corridors, uh, where the infrastructure is in bad condition, um, where it has to be replaced, uh, and where it's, it's always painful to go through that. Um, uh, uh, there's, there's the old cliché, no pain, no gain, and, and that's certainly true of projects like streetscape projects. Um, Limestone is unique in that, um, Limestone has a lot of underground infrastructure that was in a terrible state of repair, uh, and desperately needed to be replaced, and, and that is not, uh, typical. So you're, you're experiencing something that, um, most of the cities that we work with don't have to experience. So it's ... I won't say that we do projects like Limestone all the time. We do streetscape projects all the time. We probably do five a year. Um, and it's ... Um, the reason you do them, i- is the aspiration to, um, to, to realize a, an economic impact down the road. Um, you, you try and do them in such a way to minimize the disruption to current businesses and property owners. But you do it with the recognition that the upside, uh, and the payoff is, uh, is going to be greater than the current, uh, pain that you're suffering. And I think most of our clients, um, recognize that, and most of them realize that benefit over the long term. And I think Limestone, as an example, um, it has great potential to be a very, um, productive, um, engine, economic engine for the city. Uh, you've got one of the country's finest universities. You've got one of the country's finest cities. And what's missing is the tie that binds them, and, um, while it's certainly painful and it's certainly costly, um, in the short term, um, there are people sitting in this room that are, that are talking about making investments in the tens, if not hundreds, of million dollars along that corridor as a result of the work that's going on. So it's not, um, it's not pretty to deal with while it's happening. It's kinda like making sausage. It's not very pretty to look at, but it sure tastes good when it's done. Sorry for another cliché. But, but that is ... Uh, the, the devil is in the details. I'm not making light of the, of the pain and suffering that property and business owners are undergoing, but I'm saying that, um, in hindsight, I think was, it's, it's the right decision to move forward and to suffer the pain, um, uh, because it will ultimately, um, have a positive impact on the city. We certainly, um, agree that you wanna, to minimize disruption and you wanna, uh, do the best you can to accommodate the business owners that are there, and we would certainly like, um, to see everybody be successful in the long term. And frankly, I think an improvement like that will set the stage for businesses to be successful long term along that corridor. Thank you, and one, one further question. Uh, do, uh, do you anticipate the same kind of, of underground, uh, disruptions- Mm-hmm. ... uh, and complications on, on, on the o- other, uh, corridors in the, in the project? Uh, uh, n- no. Uh, along the other, along Main and Vine and, and at Cheapside, the, the underground work is much, much less extensive. It's, um ... By comparison, it's relatively minor, so. So this is the, the worst of it? You've, you've suffered the worst first, yes. Thank you, Cleet. Council Member Stennet? Thank you, Mayor. Cleet, u- on the Cheapside, in our packet, the, the drawings of Cheapside, when will you have the final design done for the, uh ... Um, Council Member, we, we have something that looks, um, closer to the final design out in the hallway. It didn't make it into your packet 'cause we're continuing because of the pace to work through it. So we're ... Um, um, we will have to have, if we're going to stay on schedule to, to, uh, get work started in December, we're gonna have to complete documentation in November. So we basically have two months to co- complete Cheapside. And on the Cheapside piece in particular, why are we cutting the pavilion short of going the full distance of the whole street? Um, it, it has a lot to do with wanting to, um, leave space for the Cheapside, I'm sorry, for the, uh, Breckenridge, uh, statue and memorial to, uh, have a prominent position, um, in the, in the space. Uh, we also wanna have a little breathing room for, um, outdoor activities and events to occur. Uh, we've worked with Jeff DeBelt from the Lexington Farmer's Market to, I guess, right size it. ... um, one of the important design considerations is the placement of the pavilion, uh, the center pavilion. Uh, we're looking to have that be very transparent and open, and center on the axes of the existing courthouse building there. That was one of the design determinants for that. That's what I thought. How many people can you fit in the pavilion for the farmer's market? How many vendors have we estimated? Um, uh, anywhere from, from probably 28 to, to 32, um, depending on how much space they, they wanna occupy. How many currently do we have on a normal farmer's market Saturday? Um, my understanding is peak season, and Jeff could probably answer this better than I, but peak season, it varies between 90 and 100 vendors down there. Um, he's shaking his head, so I think I said that right. Um, and it, it, it obviously lasts as you build up to peak production, agriculture So I assume that they'll be around e- are they gonna be, are we planning on having them adjacent to the pavilion or around the back, like what they are now, or? Um, they, they're, they'll, they'll function, uh, in different ways. There will be some that will operate out of the trucks the way they do today on Short Street. Uh, there will be others that, um, uh, will only operate underneath the cover of the canopy. There will be some that will operate, as the perspective shows, in some, um, some canvas, uh, tent structures out along the, the sidewalk. Okay. And then last, on the naming rights, uh, where, where would that placement be for the naming of, of the pavilion? Uh, can we switch to the, uh, elevation view again? That one right there. Is it ... Thank you. Um, it's, it's very difficult to see, uh, from where you are, but on the lower view, uh, we've got a sign band in the center. There's a pointer up there. There's, okay. It's right at the bottom. Okay. The bottom. The bottom. The bottom. At the bottom? No, no. Down straight down. Underneath? Yeah. Okay. Oh, gotcha. Thank you. Uh, so there's sign band right there. Um, these are, these are early drawings. Um, I'm not even sure if the, uh, donor has, has even seen these yet. So we're, we're proposing that the naming occur here, and at the ends that, um, there be some recognition of the district itself. There, there could also be recognition of the donor on the ends. When you get those, can you bring them back to this body, so we make sure that we get a copy and, and, and see what that looks like and if they're done tastefully? Sure, sure. Be happy to. Last thing we want is neon lights on top of building possibly - I completely appreciate that and understand. Well, thank you on that note, and, and that's all the questions I had on the chief's side. Just have a couple, uh, comments on the South Limestone project. We've heard a lot of discussion over the last month about the obviously negative consequences that a project can have. A lot of us have dealt with this issue, not just, um, on South Limestone, but all of our districts. When we widened Liberty Road, Council Member Crosby and Council Member Lane had those issues. And we're gonna start widening Man o' War intersection at Liberty here right before Thanksgiving. You can imagine what could happen to Hamburg at Christmastime if we don't make sure one lane of Man o' War is open when we widen that intersection all the time. So, I feel Council Member, uh, Fallawless' frustrations in all this. I think what we've done, we've done a lot, too much discussion on this issue and, and it's time once and for all to put this issue to bed and let them finish the project one way or another, and let this b- body make a final decision as to how we're gonna finish this project, whether keep the same recurring schedule or request that we get an option to speed up the schedule, and that's what I wanna make today. Mayor, if we could have the administration present to us next week, um, what it's gonna cost us to work till 10:00, 11:00 PM and what our options are to get that done, and let this body once and for all vote it up or down, whether or not we wanna spend additional money, whether or not we wanna leave it as it is and move on, because I think we've had a lot of discussion, a lot of people have been back and forth on this issue, but we need to make a final decision, so I'll make a motion to request that we have, uh, a can-do plan as to how we can work till 10:00, 11:00 at night so we don't vi- violate noise ordinances, so we stay within, um, the, the current ordinances and, and laws we have to speed up this project, and we have a cost estimate given to this council by next Tuesday, uh, and anything else it's gonna take so that we can make a final decision as a body. Is there- Second. Uh, uh- The, uh, motion is by Council Member Stennet, and I'll give Council Member Lawless the most votes here for a second here. Um, I guess, uh, if I understand correctly, you want a cost estimate about what it would take to increase the workday from 6:00 or 7:00 in the morning until 10:00 at night, and what the cost and implications of that would be. And any legalities we'd have to go through amending contracts, we just need it all on the table, Mayor, so we can make a decision ourselves. Obviously that would necessitate getting some estimates from a number of people who aren't in this room, and I don't, I don't know whether or not it's physically possible to get the estimates in that timeframe. Mr. Milligan suggests it is. Is that correct? Okay, that, that case. Any discussion of that motion? Then those in favor? Council Member McCord. Comment. You know, again, eh, we wasted a month and, and the frustration is evident and palpable. And, you know, we've gone and we've seen and so forth, and this body has to remember, it only acts when it makes motions. Comments are nice, and, and, and, and talking even like I'm doing right now, that's all fine and well, but I appreciate Council Member Stennet stepping up and actually making a motion so that something can be done. And, and I would ask, Mr. Milligan, that we move post haste so this, this body can make a decision and, and move forward, 'cause we hear ya'. We do hear ya', and, and it comes through the form of motions, uh, that this body acts. And, and I appreciate Council Member Stennet taking a lead on that. Thank you. Any further discussion? All in favor then please say aye. Aye. Opposed, no? Motion carries. Thank you, Mayor. Council- uh, Council Member Beard. I just wanted to say, um, I've been in the queue now, and I was right behind, uh, Council Member Stennet to make a similar motion. And, um, so I appreciate him getting that done. And I appreciate what I've been hearing from, uh, folks like Council Member McCord. Thank you. Vice Mayor Gray. I too appreciate the, um, sentiment of the, um, motion, and I did vote for it. And I look forward to hearing the numbers. Um, but I don't think we should pay a dime more for a contract we're already... for a scope that we're already paying 50% more than was budgeted. And for where what we really need is compliance. Now, Cleta, I was gonna say, I appreciate, you know, in the two years that I've known you, this is a parenthetical that I've... your- your hairline has receded just a little bit in the course- ... of these two years. And I suspect it may even go a little bit more. But to dial back just a little bit, um, you know, the way that we tend to operate as members of this legislative body is to offer input. And if we can't go along with something because of whatever conviction or experience that we have, then the only way to register our objection is to vote against something, which is what I did when this project was presented. As much as I believe that the history shows that I have been a pretty strong advocate for doing not just this project, but the downtown, my belief was that we were shoehorning this project in inappropriately in the schedule, that we had plenty of time for this project, that we needed to earn the respect of the community by doing first the cheap side project, or at least examining the options. And so I voted for this because of three reasons: process, inappropriate to do a project like this on a design-build basis, the document should have been prepared and the bid should have been competitively engaged. The priority, already talked about that, and the price, already talked about that. Now, I was there on Saturday, and all I saw... at the job site, all I saw was a skeleton crew. So George, I like to see daily reports, how many people were working on Saturday. And I really don't understand why, with a schedule like this, that we wouldn't be working on Sundays. We have all other emergency operations in our city working on Sundays. These people that... and these businesses that are struggling today, it is not an illusion that they are struggling. Those of us who walked the site surely know after those conversations that people weren't making this up. It is a red herring that the concrete company, the concrete supplier cannot provide concrete after 5:00. So, I look forward to hearing what comes next week, but I think that it is our responsibility to insist on compliance with the contract that we already have. Thank you. See any... Council Member Crosby. Thank you, Vice Mayor, uh, or thank you, Mayor. The Vice Mayor brings up some, uh, good points. And I would just like to request also in addition to what Council Member, uh, Stennet asked for, if, uh, there are areas of the contract that are non-compliant, if we could somehow get a list of those, because it appears that next Tuesday, probably, we might have some kind of motion that might come forward. And this is obviously, particularly if it comes to some kind of big financial decision, I would like to know with the contract, where we're not compliant, what we might be able to enforce, and before I would make some kind of decision based on financials alone, because there may be some areas within the contract we might also be able to enforce and kind of put those hand-in-hand. And I just feel like if I don't know that part, you know, that portion of the picture and I'm just going on financials, then- then I don't... I wouldn't understand it wholly. So, and I don't know who the appropriate person would be to... Uh, I mean, I'm hearing that there's parts of the contract that they're not being compliant, but I don't... We- we've heard so much on this project. I don't know exactly who is the right person to provide us with that information. I would ask that those council members who have been referring to the, uh, lack of compliance with the contract just make a list of the contract sections that they think have been violated and a brief description of how. And if we could get those in time to be included with the packets next Thursday, then we can circulate it to everyone, and, uh, you can be aware of it prior to the meeting on- on Tuesday. That would be great. Thank you. All right. Um, council- Council Member Wallace. Um, I was actually punched in to tell you, uh, no, to- to respond to you and to say that, um, last week or two weeks ago when I asked for an update, I ran through quite a few, and one of them, which was that the offsite, um, storage of equipment, and that the... and Mr. Milligan said, "Well, that area that's fenced is always full." And I told him I had photographs of it being empty, and I've got more photographs of it being empty. So I'll make a list. I'm sure that many of the, um- ... uh, people that are living it every day will have things to add, but, uh, I'll do that. And again, thank you, Council Member Stennet, you beat me to the punch. I was gonna make the same motion, and thank you. Bye. Council Member Myers. Thank you, Mayor. I guess I wanna kind of piggyback on what, uh, Council Member Crosby asked, and that is, is whose responsibility is it, I guess, the project manager might be the, the title, but whose responsibility is it to manage this project and make sure that everything is in compliance? Well, Mr. Milligan has the day-to-day responsibility, and then there are folks from Public Works that have been overseeing, um, other aspects of the project, but day-to-day, it'd be Mr. Milligan. W- um, could I, could you come down to the microphone for a second? I, I guess my question is, being that that's your responsibility, d- are you aware of things that are out of compliance or have been out of compliance on this project? I appreciate the council members bringing together their lists of what they think is out of compliance, but, but from the government's perspective, we have someone who is the project manager that is supposed to be keeping track of compliance. So are there things that you're aware of? There are, there are things that were listed in the construction, initial construction plan that once construction began, uh, it was determined that it was not feasible, and so changes were made, and some of those are some of the things that, uh, Ms. Lawless is, uh, is mentioning. One of, one of the biggest one is, uh, storage of equipment and moving equipment from the site. Excuse me . W- what happens when we have a contract, and then once the project begins, for whatever reason, we determine that there are things in the contract that aren't really feasible. What, what happens at that point? The, uh, in, in the, the instances of this contract, the construction team, which c- which consisted of, of myself, the project engineer, the project inspector, uh, working with the, the contractors, came up with an alternative to go ahead and speed the project up. Um, has that alternative been discussed or disseminated to the business owners so that they understand and what changes were made in the contract, or what agreements were made in the contract? And then also, did they have any input in those changes? They, they were aware that the changes are there. Their input probably w- at the time was not done. It was, it was done as a, as a, as a construction management decision. So, so that information's been given to them, so they understand some of these things that maybe we think are out of compliance, really aren't necessarily out of compliance. We have- They've just been - Ms. Lawless and I have, have discussed most of these issues probably almost on a weekly basis a- as, as to why, uh, some of these things are, are done or are being done the way they are being done. I'm speaking more of the business owners though, because if they're not aware that change has been made, amendments were made to the contract, then if they have a copy of the original contract and they're thinking or if they went to some of those meetings where things were discussed, they think that things are not in compliance, but maybe they are with the amendments that were made. Councilman, we have not officially... We have not done a written amendment to the contract with these changes. There, there, these are field decisions that were made. There, there's no written, uh, amendment to the contract. Had there been one of those, it would have had to come to you all, I believe. Okay, thank you. Yes, sir. Any other questions for Mr. Beenken or others? All right, thank you very much. We appreciate the, uh, report. We're down now to council reports. Do, uh, Council Member Crosby. Thank you, Mayor. Just a few brief things. Uh, first, when I was doing the report out for the Vacant Property Review Commission, I inadvertently left out David Jarvis on the committee. I was reading a list of names, and I had his name on there, but I was trying to be so quick because we had so many items to discuss. So I wanted to thank David Jarvis because he attended every committee meeting, and, um, certainly, I just overlooked his name, so I wanted to make sure I pointed that out. I also wanted to thank, uh, the fire department for the wonderful parade last night. Um, it was great fun. There was a good crowd downtown, um, so thank you for that. And I also wanted to announce this Saturday, the Andover Hills Neighborhood Association or neighborhood is, um, hosting their annual or their, uh, semiannual garage sale. So thank you. Thanks. Council Member Blues. Thank you, Mayor. Uh, first of all, I'd, I'd like to, uh, thank and commend the, uh, Division of Police for their work in the, in, in the Windburn neighborhood in, in recent weeks. Uh, as you know, there have been a, a rash of robberies in the neighborhood. Uh, as a consequence, a, uh, a, a special robbery unit or team was, was, was formed. Uh, within the last few days, several suspects have been, have been arrested. Uh, and I think the neighborhood made safer and to feel, uh, a little more secure. So I, I'm really very grateful for the kind of response, uh, to this, uh, uh, to this crime problem. Couple of announcements. Uh, tonight at 6:00 PM, the historic Woodward Heights neighborhood will meet at the Community Action Building on West High Street. And on Saturday, the, uh, Mettlethorpe Neighborhood Association will hold its Fall Festival starting at, uh, at 1:00 until, until 5:00 PM. Look forward to, uh, to seeing the neighborhood out at, uh, Louis Met- Mettlethorpe Park, uh, I think, I think it'll be a good time if the weather holds. Thank you, Mayor. Thanks. Councilmember Hinson. Thank you, Mayor. I just have a couple of announcements, um. Cardinal Valley Neighborhood Association is meeting tonight at 7:00 at Cardinal Valley Elementary. And I'm having a community leaders meeting, um, Thursday, October 8th at six o'clock at Picadome, uh, Clubhouse. Thank you, Mayor. Thanks. Councilmember McCord. Thank you, Mayor. This, uh, marks a very large weekend in Lexington. This is, uh, one of those weekends where, uh, it's gonna be great to be in Lexington. You have not only the Kings of Leon concert. You have, uh, the end of the Bourbon Chase Relay coming 200 miles in from, uh, starting in Shepherdsville on, and e- ending here in Lexington on Saturday night. You have, uh, WRFL's Boomslang, uh, over that whole weekend. You have Latina Fiesta on Saturday night. Uh, and then on, on Sunday, you have Second Sunday. And, uh, uh, the last organizational meeting for it will be tonight at 5:30 to 7:00 on the, uh, seventh floor of the conference room. But, uh, just, just to point out, uh, we're... Th- this is a, a big, big deal. Uh, I was in West Virginia yesterday, and I spoke for the Southern Legislative Conference, uh, and, and spoke about Second Sunday. And you had everyone, uh, representing, uh, all kinds of branches of state government that picked up on this and started running with it. And, and, uh, looking forward to next year is potentially doing it outside the state borders. You have 104 counties across the state of Kentucky doing something together, which, we don't do a whole lot together in Kentucky. Um, it's a national model. But the main thing that I wanna share with people watching and the people around this horseshoe is is that Second Sunday will, in large part, be looked at, uh, through a Lexington lens. Uh, a lot of the stuff that we do here in Lexington is the standard, uh, for the state, but it'll also be the standard for the nation. And, um, o- one of those things that happened is is that there's a gentleman by the name of Mark Kruger. Mark was a semifinalist on season five of Biggest Loser. He's from Pennsylvania. He and his brother, uh, were on that show. It was the first time that they started doing pairs. And Mark was kind of a, a fan favorite across America. Mark heard about this last summer, and, uh, has flown in on his own dime, uh, is speaking at William Wells Brown on, uh, uh, Friday morning, speaking at UK, uh, toward, with hundreds of students. He's on, uh, a number of radio shows, with BizLex, with KET. And basically, this guy, who has lost a hundred and some odd pounds down to 185, 11% body fat, running marathons, uh, has had a radical change in his life because of the show, has said this is the greatest thing he's ever seen. And he's flying in to promote it, and lend his name and his celebrity to it. That's the kind of positive attention that when you do things right and you take a leadership role, uh, can happen. And, and so what I wanna say to people watching and I wanna say to the people in the audience and up here, please come. Because much like the census, last year you were in seven... we were in 70 counties, and there were about 12,000 plus people across the state of Kentucky. You're in 104 counties, and if Lexington and these counties show up in mass, what will happen is is that, uh, people across the nation will see that, uh, Kentucky is no longer just at the bottom of the health barrel, but rather a solutions provider and a leader. So it's very incumbent upon everyone to come out. There is no rain, uh, fall-back date. It's, it is be there. It is not an event. It is an absolutely change the game board type of thing. And I wanna encourage everyone to at least come down for a while between 2:00 and 6:00. Um, and something that was mentioned earlier about South Limestone. You know, here sits th- an opportunity to take thousands of people, bring them downtown in a pedestrian-friendly way, and walk them around. And I've shared with the South Limestone folks, um, that they need to be down there in mass. We need to be taking people down there. Here's a positive opportunity we can take, uh, and, and, and benefit some hurting businesses, uh, and those folks down there. And what people do a Second Sunday, it's all up to you. But what's really amazing to watch is that, uh, we put a, uh, a call-out to nonprofits that wanted free space. We just said, "Hey, we'll give you free space down here. And the quid pro quo is is, uh, uh, if you'll just bring your membership down here." We have 75 nonprofits in our community coming out. When do we do that? When do we do this kind of stuff? This is something so special and so unique. So again, I say that, uh, you hear me talk a lot about Second Sunday, uh, but the bottom line to it is is that this is an event that, that can change Kentucky and c- can change Lexington. And we are the gold standard, and as such, I would expect, uh, folks to come out and be a part of it. So with that, th- here's to a great weekend in Lexington, Kentucky. Thank you, Councilmember McCord, for your report and for all your effort in making it successful. It, it's a great event. I'm looking forward to it. Councilmember Beard? Thank you, Mayor. Um, I would like to bring forward a, an, and actually walk on an amendment to ordinance number 137-2009, section 246... 2-468. Um, th- this, of course, is on the books presently, and we wish to have the, that section amended to insert the word voting so that the section would read, "A majority of the voting appointed members of the commission," said commission being the Quarters Commission, "shall constitute a quorum for the transaction of business at any meeting of the commission." So moved. Second. I have a motion by Councilmember Beard, second by Councilmember Ehlinger to, um, add the draft ordinance dealing with an amendment to section 248 of the Code of Ordinances to the docket for the next council meeting. Any discussion? Councilmember Blues. Thank you, Mayor. Uh, I- Can, uh, can I get a bit of an update from you, Mayor, on, on the, uh, appointments to the, uh, to the Corridors Commission? We have, uh, the commission has or will have 11 voting members, and, um, I can't remember the exact number of non-voting members. Uh, and I know that, that, that this is an important body. We, we, we've, uh, we're gonna have a pretty full agenda. And, uh, I'm wondering when we can begin starting to, uh, to meet? Well, as you know, there are a number of specific individuals that are identified to serve on that, uh, that particular, uh, commission. We have made requests, uh, repeatedly now to get their information in so we can bring them to you, and we haven't had much success, uh, getting the documentation in, the resume, the completed applications, and the like. So if any of you are in a position to nudge some of those folks along, uh, I would encourage you to do so. I, I, I know Council Member Feigl has been interested particularly in getting that to happen. Uh, we're ready to, ready to move forward. I, I checked on that one just coincidentally earlier today. So, uh, I'd like to try to get it in for consideration next week, uh, which means I, I need those resumes and related materials by Thursday morning. I'd be glad to help out if I, if, if I could, if there are- Sure. We would, we would welcome that. Um, Mr. Kelley, if you could ask Ms. Hargrave to contact Council Member Blues and, uh, follow up on the Corridors Commission specifically, we would welcome your, your- And maybe some of the other- Sure. ... council members who have already been appointed. Mm-hmm. But you're entirely, you're entirely right. That one especially does need to get going, and we're perfectly willing to put forward the names just as quickly as we can get the documentation together. Good, thank you so much. Thanks. I have one other, one other or a second point. That is, this comes under the category of, uh, misery loves company. Uh, we need, we need to vote to add that to the docket- Oh. ... first. That's right. Uh. Uh, any further discussion on the motion to add that to the docket? All in favor say aye to that. Aye. All opposed, no? Uh, the motion carries. Council Member- Thank you, Mayor. As I say, misery loves company. I just wanna be sure all of my colleagues have had an opportunity to read page one and two of this morning's newspaper concerning Lexington Public Library and the expenditure of over $210,000 in legal fees dealing with, um, open records requests and, um- ... o- other things, which, uh, well, let's just put it this way. My blood pressure went so high, I thought my ears were gonna blow off. And I just want everybody else to join with me in this thing and, uh, and, and feel the same thing, feel the same pain. So I just wanted to bring that out. Thank you very much. Thank you. Council Member Ellinger. Thank you, Mayor. Move approval of the Neighborhood Development Fund. Second. Council Member Ellinger's moved the approval of the NDF. Council Member Crosby seconded that. Any discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed, no. Motion carries. Council Member Lawless. Um, I, I've had to triple my blood pressure medication since I've been on council also. Uh, I've said this before, I feel like I've been in a forest fire with a squirt gun for the last eight months, but I do love it. Um, the Ellsworth Neighborhood Association meeting will be tonight at Woodland Christian Church at 7:00 PM. Um, I wanna thank, um, Council Member McCord and the Downtown Lexington Corporation for all the incredible work you've done, um, on Second Sunday, and the trails and really, really appreciate it. And it's nice to be put on the map for something really great. Um, I also have gotten quite a few questions about the water quality fee and, um, Mayor or whoever, uh, I was wondering if people could be, uh, there's a lot of misunderstanding that, you know, oh, if I have a driveway, et cetera, and if that could be put on the water bill now, in January 1, your water quality fee will be X to residential customers, I think that would be really helpful, uh, because I think there's a lot of confusion about that. Uh, Mr. O'Meara and others have been working with the folks at Kentucky-American. You might come on up. I think, uh, in light of Council Member Lawless's inquiry, it might be helpful just to give a quick rundown about what is transpiring in the way of preparing for the stormwater utility, uh, that will be billed out early in the year. Um, the experts are outside the room, so I'll give it a go because I have been in the meetings. There are quite a few, uh, plans for, uh, public education. Uh, they did a, uh, survey that said that, uh, a lot of people don't know the difference between a sewer and a stormwater, and the, the awareness or lack thereof in the community about the stormwater fee, uh, they are working on, um, a publicity campaign that is, uh, supposed to roll out before January. Um- We, uh, also sent out, I believe, uh, Charlie Martin gave a recap, I think it was last week, about, uh, communiques to, to, uh, the churches and to those people that, uh, had multiple renters in the same space with different water meters and that type of thing, look, working with the, um, um, professional community about their fee. The one thing that is, is, um, good about the fee is that all residential units are one ERU, equivalent residential unit. And the rate is, I'm sorry, but it's $5 and something, but I- $4.32. Thank you. That was pretty cool. Um, $4.32 per month, um, if you live in a house. Doesn't matter the size of your driveway, your garage, this type of thing. So, um, that is going to be part of the publicity campaign to communicate that to residents, that, that, uh, the residential rate is the same, it is equally borne by all residents, and will start on the January, uh, bill. Well, yeah, I'm clear about, about what it is. I just thought maybe if there could be an insert in the water bill, perhaps, to residential customers explaining that, it, that would probably be a really efficient way to get that information out to everybody. I, I know communication through Kentucky American Water was on the agenda for discussion. The, I, I don't know about the insert, but I know, uh, we have a lot more latitude with the message that is printed on the bill rather than the insert. Okay. But I can take that back and, and we can have this- Well, it doesn't have to be in there, but somehow notified on their bill and start doing that soon so people can be prepared. And so thank you. Mm-hmm. Um, I also, uh, wanna say that, um, a, a week or two ago when I asked for an update on the progress of the library audit, um, I got a somewhat pointed response. And I didn't, at the time I was just thinking, "We need to know and move on." Uh, now I see that they're hiring attorneys to help them through this, so it's costing us money. So again, I would request, it did say in the paper, uh, expecting an, uh, audit report soon, but it would be really helpful, um, if we could have some kinda idea what that means. Thank you. Vice Mayor Gray. Um, I just have a quick announcement that, uh, regarding the Affordable Housing Task Force, uh, Council Member Lawless, uh, had asked me to sort of poll the council members to see who might be willing to serve on the task force, so I thought this might be the most efficient way to do that, if you all please. Anyone who is willing to, uh, for the Affordable Housing Task Force. Uh, Affordable Housing Trust- Trust Task Force. Right, sorry. Affordable Housing Trust Task Force. Thank you. Question. Oh, yes? Um, what's the purpose of the group? This is the, this is the, um, to examine the affordable housing issues, including the, uh, the commission work and the trust options and all of that. Coun- uh, Council Member- The only thing I would add to that is when we, when we looked at this, we had the workshop. We said that we would come up and, and try to find a way to pay for it, and that's what this would be, is to look at, at options on how to pay for the, the trust. Council Member Myers. Sorry about that. Thank you, Mayor. Um, Commissioner Oskar, can you come up for a second? Council Member Beard brought up a, a good point today, and I know that I keep asking questions about the airport board and, um, I, you know, today they were supposed to be here again today to, to give us an update. And they sent us a letter saying that they would, they need more time to bring a final report to us, and I, and I respect that. I guess my question is, I've asked a couple different people, um, elected officials to weigh in on, as to what the council can do and not do, and haven't been able to get any answers. Um, so I'm not really sure what direction to go. One of the questions I have now about what the airport board has done is, it's my understanding they went into closed session to hammer out that agreement with their former director. And I'm not sure, since he wasn't an employee at the time, and I wouldn't think that litigation was pending since they'd already publicly stated in the newspaper the agreement that was reached. I'm not sure what legal grounds they had to go under closed session to do that. So, I'd like you, one, to look into that. All right. But number two, I guess maybe the question is, do we have a council workshop so that you or the appropriate people can explain to the council what our role is when it comes to things like what the airport board's doing and what the library board's doing? Absolutely. Um, so I guess, could you work with us to get that scheduled on the calendar? Sure, be happy to. And, and there are a couple of, um, documents that have been submitted previously- ... that might be of some assistance to you, and I'd be happy to recirculate those. I will tell you that, um, uh, there was a decision last week by the Kentucky Supreme Court dealing with the immunity of the airport, which, uh, had some language in it concerning the relationship between the airport and LFUCG. And, uh, so, uh, we will update the information we previously sent out and be happy to answer those questions. Now, with respect to the open meetings, you, I'm not, uh, they're represented by counsel and so I don't know, but I'd be happy to find out. Their minutes should reflect that. But I will tell you that it's not just pending litigation, it's proposed litigation as well. So, uh, that's, that's a possibility, but I don't know. I'll be happy to look into that and report back to you. Okay. And I know I heard some sighs over here on this side of the room whenever I asked that question. Her- here's the situation, you know, maybe not all of us, but some of us are still getting emails and text messages and phone calls about these situations and- Right. ... I think for the public, this isn't gonna go away until and unless public trust and confidence is restored. And so I don't enjoy asking these questions. I don't enjoy that these things have happened, but I think that, you know, this body has a responsibility to look after and to protect the taxpayer. And, you know, just as, as Councilman Beard said, he wants other people on this council to, to share the pain and, and to ask the questions, and I'd appreciate that too, really. But if that doesn't happen, I'm not gonna stop asking the questions until we get all the questions answered. Hope... And- I'm sorry. ... I don't have an ax to grind. It's simply once and for all, if we figure out what our role is and what we can do and not do. Well, one thing that's important to remember, and a couple of these memos would have addressed that, is that it is not a one-size-fits-all type situation, because with respect to the boards that we're state law governs, there are different rules that apply. But I'll be happy to try to get you some additional information about that and also find out this question about the airport board meeting as well. You're referencing the Supreme Court ruling- Yes. ... falling under our umbrella of sovereign immunity? Is that correct? Is your microphone on? I, Councilmember Beard, I'm sorry, I didn't hear you. I'm sorry. I apologize. You're referencing them falling under the umbrella of our sovereign immunity? Right. And also, there was some discussion about the state also, there, uh, but yes, that's correct. All right. It was a rather lengthy opinion. Okay. I just, um, you know, all coins have two sides , so if they, if they get to have that, they ought to have to then take the other p- pill also. Thank you. I understand. Anything further? Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Commissioner. Sure. Councilmember Gordon. Thank you, Mayor. Um, Mr. O'Mara, over here, you, and you don't, I don't think you need to come down. I just had a comment about the fee- That's fine. ... which will be implemented in January, and I would like to be certain that the wording complies with our ordinance. Um, as all of us know, I think we know that the reason Fayette County was sued by the EPA was we were violating the Clean Water Act. And so the fee that we have coming is a water quality fee, not a stormwater fee, uh, because the whole first goal of what that fee will pay for is clean water. So will you be sure whatever wording goes out that it complies with how it's listed in the ordinance? Thank you. Just so the record can reflect- Thank you. ... he nodded his head, so. Uh, yes, thank you. Now that's... Is that all, Councilmember Gordon? All right. Does any other member have a report? I have no Mayor's report, and I only have one person who's indicated a desire to speak, which is Mr. Cirigliano, if you would, uh, step to the podium, you'll have three minutes. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you. Um, I didn't intend to talk, but I came in in the middle of a presentation, uh, the PowerPoint presentation on, on the, uh, South Limestone and, uh, we manage a property on Maxwell that is affected by this project and have been actively involved with, um, with, uh, Diane and, uh, Harold and, uh, George Milligan. And I must say that, um, George and Diane and Harold have been very responsive. We've been very active in giving them comments on things from parking, traffic direction, both before this project started and during, and they've been very responsive. So I know I've heard a lot of negative things. I didn't intend to talk today, but I just think that it's been too negative. Uh, and secondly, I've attended, either me or my staff have attended many meetings about Downtown Master Plan and the streetscape as these things were developed. And I can tell you that only... I, I saw almost none of the people and none of the merchants at those meetings during the planning period. Almost none of those people who are complaining now were at these meetings, which took place over quite a few months, weeks, and days. And I'm just scratching my head a little bit about the responsibility that citizens had who could have given comments that would have been helpful to this problem. And I bet, you know, it certainly is challenging. Uh, didn't, they weren't there. They're complaining now. And, uh, it hurts a little bit, because I spent a lot of time there, and, uh, we did, and a lot of energy, and they weren't there. And I think, um, our responsibilities as citizens are far greater than, uh, showing up when, you know, the dirt is just turned over. Secondly, um ... this is really a dual project, which is that infrastructure, and it has mandates and federal things, and it has streetscape. Those are two, in my mind, they're two separate things. And I just always wonder what would happen if we had, you know, a gas leak, a sewer blowup, water main break, an- and where this work had to be done on emergency terms. That would've really, really been ugly. So I think we need to cut people a little bit of slack on that. Um, and, um ... uh, it certainly, um, you know, affects us all, for sure, but, uh, we're out there. You know, I'm out in the street every single day, looking at that project and commenting even to the workers, and to George, just about every day. So I think there are people who are out there. We're not complaining, we're just trying to make it better. And, um, I just am shocked that the dialogue has been totally negative when not everybody showed up to take their responsibility as citizens. Thanks very much. Thank- thank you, Mr. Cirigliano. Does anyone else wish to address the Council? Do I hear a motion to adjourn? So moved. Second. Council Member, uh, Crosby's moved to adjourn. Council Member Ehlinger has seconded that motion. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed, no. Motion carries.