# Services Committee - November 3, 2009 > Auto-transcribed civic record · November 3, 2009 - **Permalink**: https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/meeting/1111 - **Source video**: https://lfucg.granicus.com/player/clip/1111?view_id=14&redirect=true - **Date**: 2009-11-03 - **Last revised**: July 17, 2026 - **Length**: 7,308 words > ⚠️ **Auto-generated content.** Audio from the official Granicus video was auto-transcribed with OpenAI's open-source Whisper large-v3-turbo model, run locally by The Lexington Times. Structured facts were extracted with GPT-4o; the narrative summary was written by Anthropic Claude. Verbatim wording may contain errors. See [methodology](https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/about/methodology) or [report a correction](mailto:editor@lexingtonky.news). --- ## Meeting Overview The Services Committee met on November 3, 2009, at 1:00 p.m., with Mr. Chairman presiding. The committee considered four agenda items during the meeting. Four motions were voted on, and the committee heard eight public comments. Of the four items on the agenda, one was approved: Address & Firegate Identification/Numbering. Two items were deferred: Loading & Unloading and Items in Committee. One item, Private Solid Waste Providers, was postponed. ## Attendance **Present:** Ellinger, Myers, Lawless, Beard, Feigel, Crosbie, McChord, Martin, Henson, Lane, Gorton **Absent:** Schonegger **Late:** None ## Votes and Decisions The council held four votes during this meeting, all of which passed by voice vote with no opposition. **Motion to remove the multi-way stop at Starshoot and Ogden Way** [timestamp: 00:39:26] Council Member Stenner moved to remove the multi-way stop at Starshoot and Ogden Way. The motion passed by voice vote with all 11 council members voting in favor: Ellinger, Myers, Lawless, Beard, Feigel, Crosbie, McChord, Martin, Henson, Lane, and Gorton. **Motion to remove sign ordinance and horse cruelty ordinance from Services Committee agenda** [timestamp: 00:39:58] Council Member Myers moved, seconded by Council Member Lawless, to remove the sign ordinance and horse cruelty ordinance from the Services Committee agenda. The motion passed by voice vote with all 11 council members voting in favor. **Motion to remove curb replacement item from Services Committee agenda** [timestamp: 00:43:15] Ms. Gorton moved, seconded by Ms. Feigel, to remove the curb replacement item from the Services Committee agenda and refer it to the Water Resources Oversight Committee. The motion passed by voice vote with all 11 council members voting in favor. **Motion to adjourn** [timestamp: 00:43:46] Council Member Henson moved to adjourn the meeting. The motion passed by voice vote with all 11 council members voting in favor. ## Public Comment Eight public comments were presented during the meeting, addressing three primary topics: addressing and citation processes, public outreach strategies, and solid waste collection concerns. **Addressing and Citation Issues** Mr. Myers [00:22:08] inquired about the number of non-compliant addresses and whether their locations are known. He confirmed that the 24% non-compliance estimate is based on three pilot areas and that the 911 fund would support a dedicated staff position for citation work. Mr. Lane [00:24:46] asked how multiple dwellings on private roads or farms are addressed. The response explained that properties with more than three addresses require the driveway to become a private street with naming and signage. The county works with property owners to choose between internal street naming or a single address with building numbers. Ms. Henson [00:29:05] noted inconsistent address numbering on her street, where even numbers switch from the right side to the left in the newer section, creating confusion. She confirmed that such inconsistencies are common in older developments and that the county prioritizes fixing the most problematic areas. **Public Outreach and Education** Ms. Feigl [00:30:42] suggested using neighborhood associations, press conferences, GTV3, and utility bills to promote address posting. She offered to help distribute information to her district via email and newsletters. **Solid Waste Collection Concerns** Ms. Crosby [00:35:08] reported that recycling services vary by area, with some private haulers not offering recycling and others charging extra fees, which discourages participation. She emphasized the need for consistent information. Ms. Henson [00:35:40] noted that private haulers in her district charge extra for recycling bins, undermining recycling goals. Ms. Lawless [00:36:11] raised a concern that some apartment and condo areas are taxed for public garbage pickup but cannot receive service due to narrow roads, forcing residents to pay private haulers despite the tax. Ms. Crosby [00:37:16] suggested that the committee ask solid waste providers to discuss safety standards for their services at the next meeting. ## Contested Items **Private Solid Waste Provider Services** Community residents raised concerns about inconsistent recycling availability and extra fees charged by private haulers for recycling services. These issues created confusion among residents and discouraged participation in recycling programs. The opposition centered on the lack of standardization in service offerings and the additional costs imposed on those seeking to participate in recycling initiatives. **Addressing in Older Neighborhoods** A split vote occurred regarding address numbering discrepancies in older neighborhoods. The issue involved inconsistencies between address numbering systems in older and newer sections of streets. Rather than enforcing uniform addressing standards across all zones, the county chose to prioritize fixing the most problematic areas. This approach reflected a compromise position that addressed the most critical addressing issues while avoiding the broader implementation of comprehensive uniformity. ## Loading & Unloading [timestamp: 00:00:00] Council Member James presented the existing loading and unloading ordinance to the council. She highlighted concerns about how the ordinance would impact the upcoming conversion of Short and Second Streets. Council Member James emphasized the need to proactively address loading and unloading issues with business owners, delivery companies, and the public before the street conversion takes place. She stressed the importance of engaging these stakeholders early in the process to ensure a smooth transition. A notable concern during the discussion was the absence of administration representatives at the meeting. This lack of administrative presence limited the ability to fully address implementation questions or coordinate on the ordinance's application to the planned street conversion. **Outcome:** The item was deferred, meaning the council did not reach a final decision and will revisit the matter at a future meeting. ## Address & Firegate Identification/Numbering [timestamp: 00:03:43] David Lucas presented the county's addressing program, which serves critical functions in public safety, emergency response, and service delivery. The presentation covered the current state of the program, including compliance rates and the citation process for properties not meeting addressing standards. Lucas proposed updates to the county's addressing ordinance designed to reduce costs while maintaining consistency and effectiveness. The key changes included: * Removing the requirement for mandatory rural address markers * Replacing mandatory installations with optional marker installations * Implementing block-range markers as an alternative approach These modifications aim to lower implementation costs for property owners while preserving the program's core objectives of ensuring properties can be properly identified for emergency services and administrative purposes. Lane participated in the discussion alongside Lucas. The agenda item was approved. ## Private Solid Waste Providers Ms. Gorton introduced this agenda item to assess how private haulers contribute to the city's trash-free-by-2020 goal. [timestamp: 00:32:54] The discussion involved speakers Gorton, Crosbie, Henson, and Lawless. However, the item was postponed due to the absence of solid waste representatives who were expected to attend and provide essential data for the discussion. The representatives were anticipated to present information on: * Recycling availability through private haulers * Pricing structures * Safety standards **Outcome:** The agenda item was postponed pending the availability of solid waste provider representatives and their data. ## Items in Committee [timestamp: 00:37:50] The committee reviewed several pending items during this portion of the meeting. **Actions Taken:** - **Multi-way stop at Starshoot and Ogden Way**: This item was removed from the committee agenda after confirmation that the installation had been completed. - **Horse cruelty ordinance and sign ordinance**: Both items were removed from the committee agenda and referred to the appropriate committees for further consideration. - **Curb replacement item**: This item was referred to the Water Resources Oversight Committee due to its impact on stormwater drainage. - **Automobile usage reimbursement program**: This item was deferred pending an annual update. **Key Participants:** The discussion involved committee members Schonegger, Beard, Lawless, Feigl, and Gorton. **Outcome:** The overall outcome for this agenda item was deferred, with various pending items either removed, referred to other committees, or postponed pending additional information. --- ## Decisions - **Motion** — passed: Motion to remove the multi-way stop at Starshoot and Ogden Way - **Motion** — passed: Motion to remove the sign ordinance and horse cruelty ordinance from the Services Committee agenda - **Motion** — passed: Motion to remove the curb replacement item from the Services Committee agenda and refer it to the Water Resources Oversight Committee - **Motion** — passed: Motion to adjourn the meeting --- ## Full transcript Music Music Loading and unloading, and that was put into committee by Ms. James, and we'll go ahead and let you start with that. Sure. This item, and it doesn't appear that anyone's here to speak on it. If you are, raise your hand. No. I wanted to bring this item to the committee ahead of time instead of dealing with something after the fact. As you know, we were presented full council with the proposal for conversion of Short Street and Second Street, of Short Streets and Seconds, Short and Second Streets, and part of that conversion is going to be we're going to have to do something with the loading and unloading zones because you lose that lane pretty much. And so working with the group from planning through public works, they had talked about, you know, other cities have dealt with this issue before, and the way that our ordinance is right now, it's not necessarily something that helps when we – it doesn't help now, and it definitely won't help when we actually convert the streets. So I know that there's a group in planning. I think Max Conyers Group is working on the conversion under Chris King, and, of course, Commissioner Webb is involved in this as well. But we need to start looking at this issue. We need to hear from business owners, concerned council members or others, about what are their thoughts on the conversion there and how does this, and I guess delivery companies as well, and how does this affect how their business is run. So I just wanted to present what our existing ordinance is on the books and just open that up for council members so that they would know this is an issue forthcoming, and unfortunately there's nobody here from the administration to talk about it. I think we invited the parking authority. I don't see them here, but this is something I think I'm glad to see you being proactive on that we're going to have to be addressing, and we can keep this in committee, Are there other issues that the council members like to talk about at this point, or should we just keep this in committee as it progresses when it goes towards the two-lane switching over? Is there anything further? No, there will be some public meetings coming forward, and I'll be happy to share those dates with council members as we meet with organizations, businesses, and residents around that area. But, again, this is something I think if we can make changes to an ordinance ahead of time, we'll be bringing those proposals to you. back to this committee since we have now the issue in committee and get your opinion on making those changes in looking forward and getting prepared for the conversion instead of after the fact. Thanks. Thank you. The next item on agenda is the address and fire gate identification. And this is put in by Council Member Lane. I'll let Mr. Lane go ahead and start. And I see David Lucas here, too. And we also have a PowerPoint. And we passed around the information to the committee members, too. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is an issue that we've really been working on for several years. There's a two-fold benefit. One is to improve the identification of locations in the rural service area where the farms are because the properties are spread out pretty far. And then the second is within the urban service area itself. The urban county government has had a program to put numbering in the rural areas, and we have an ordinance that addresses numbering inside of the urban service area. Because we're, you know, in business in the urban service area, I think having the numbers on buildings would make it a lot more user-friendly for people trying to find a business location or people from out of town. And then in addition to that, there's a fire safety and EMS type issues available where responders in an emergency can get to the location faster. So I appreciate all the work that David Lucas has done on this, and I think he has a presentation to update us on what we're doing. Thank you. Thank you very much. The presentation looks thick, but it's really not that long. I'll go through it. Thank you for having me here to talk about addressing. Addressing is often the overlooked part of public safety. Everything we do in public safety, and actually a lot of the things we do in government, is based on providing services. We provide services to the individuals usually based on address, from garbage collection to 911, et cetera. So actually putting up your address is one of the simplest things a resident or a business can do to assist themselves in getting services quickly, not just from us, but from everyone who delivers services. So it's one of those legs on the three-legged stool that often gets ignored, but it's something that is very important. Just basically, in Fayette County, we've defined an address by these five components. Your number, a direction, which is just north, south, east, and west, which only can be assigned to roads that actually cross Main Street or Limestone. The name of the road in this example is Red Robin. The street type, which is Street Boulevard Avenue Drive that we have throughout the county. And then units. Units are down to apartment or suite level. So this is just an example, and the two that are underlined, the number and the name, are actually the only two aspects of an address that are required. You have to have a number and you have to have a name to go with an assigned address. Just some quick statistics here. We have over 165,000 addresses in the county. That's remarkable. It's remarkable that we've actually counted them all, and we actually collected them all, and we actually have in our GIS systems a dot for every single map. or every single address. And they're broken down, as you see here, residential, commercial. And then there's other things that we address that most people don't realize, cell towers, detention basins, pump stations. KU has their junctions throughout the city, and if you look closely, they actually have an address posted on every one of them because we respond there just as well for one of their employees or if there's a reason we need to respond there. Posting of the requirements are already set forth in our ordinance, and I won't read that for you. It's pretty straightforward, except for in the bottom we do have minimum standards. Every number needs to be at least four inches high. They need to be three feet above street level, and I'll show you some examples of why that's important. And they should be affixed to the structure or within four feet of the named easement. Sometimes a building will sit very far back from the road, especially in the rural area, or also in subdivision, or not subdivision, but strip malls. So if they have the address out by where we enter, that's good enough, because there's only one building behind it. In this example, there actually is no address. This is a sample of just a residential home, but if we were responding to this, we would be actually searching for the address because it is posted nowhere. Here are two examples of defaced addresses. One of the numbers is actually off. Actually, it is a four-digit address. There's only two and a half there. This other one is where actually we had a rule address marker that you see there. Someone actually changed the number on it because they didn't like the number assigned to them. That's not unusual. People will change their number. But you can imagine the liability with that and the issues of response when they change the address that is assigned. Here's another example of a noncompliant. You can see in this one it might be better in your hard copy. There's actually a number posted here, 1,600 nice brass numbers on the brick wall. However, that's only during the day. When they come home and they park at night, we cannot see the address. That is why we require it to be so high from the street level so we can actually see it if someone parks in front of it or otherwise obstructs it. It could be not just parked cars. It could be leaves. It could be snow. Here are two popular ways of addressing in Lexington. We call these tombstones for more than one reason. But as you can see, they're just a concrete block usually out front or this one's hidden by vegetation. But in both cases, clearly a car parked in front would block it, vegetation, or a nice snowfall, and we will not be able to see the address for this particular residential location. These are nice, but they're only nice if you supplement them as a supplement. You should have your address on your house or your business so we can see it at all times. Here's an example, one that we love. Nice, clear numbers, dark numbers on a white background. You can obviously see this, no vegetation obstructing it. Here's a similar one. They could not put it by their door because of their vegetation or their overhang of their porch, so they put it above their garage entrance, and that is very well seen from anyone coming through. Here's an example of one of our businesses. Businesses are notorious for not posting their addresses, which is ironic because they are trying to attract people to their location. But you can see where this facility actually placed it on both corners because they are a corner property. And you can clearly see this from each street as you approach. This is one of our favorites, as you can tell. That one's out in Beaumont, and anyone who's been in the Beaumont area realizes there's probably a dozen buildings out there that are all the exact same architecture. But once you get there, they're clearly marked by these numbers, and you can see which one you're going to. And in addition, if you walk up towards the front door, they have a list of all suite numbers, which is very helpful as well. Here's an example out of Old Harrisburg Road where they actually provide a range of addresses because back in this development there is multiple addresses, and so they provide a range out front. And if you look in the back, they actually have the number on the building as well. This is a great example of well-posting addresses. In 2006, late 2006, the ordinance was updated to create an address hearing board. This was required so that when we started grading citations for not properly posting your address, there was an appeal process. So this board was created. Although it was created in 2006, it wasn't populated for almost a year. We do have an address hearing board. They have not started to receive any citations being appealed to them yet because we are still working on getting the process up and running. Here is the progression of how citations work. We provide a notification of noncompliance. They have 30 days to comply. If they do not, there's a second notification, another 30 days, and then we start giving a citation with a fine amount. and you can see how that progresses over time. The note on the bottom is all fines are reduced in half if they are paid within seven days of a notification and the address has been correctly posted and they waive their rights to appeal, or should I say further appeal. Currently, we are doing our citation process through the Division of Code Enforcement. They already have an appeals board. They already have a citation mechanism set up, so we have worked with them in an agreement. They do five citations for us per month. What we do is we go after ones that are very bad, that we've had complaints from citizens or from our divisions of police and fire. As you can see, since that period, we've done 238 citations. Only two of those have been appealed, and they were both resolved in the appeal process. Currently we have seven outstanding. If you look at those numbers, that's over a 98% compliant rate. And so obviously using these citations, even before actually adding a fine to it, is a very successful way to have people comply and put their numbers up properly. We did a test pilot area in Metathorpe. There's over 938 addresses in the Metathorpe area. As you can see, 106 of them are commercial and 832 are residential. We worked with those residents and commercial entities in that area. Before we got there, only 60% of the commercial had actually posted their addresses and 70% of the residential. We sent them some letters, some pamphlets on how to do it properly. And as you can see, right now we have almost 100% compliant. We have, I think, seven that are not compliant at this time, out of total 938. So we're very proud of that area, and they've done a lot of work locally to post their addresses. Currently in our – I think I might have skipped one here. There we go. So currently in the citation department, we did two pilot areas to see the rate of noncompliant, and we came up with 24% of addresses are not posted, which is roughly 40,000 in Fayette County. We would like to, no pun intended, address that issue and go out and get these people to actually put their numbers up properly. To do that, we calculated that we could do that with one dedicated staff to cite throughout the county. We currently have an administrative position that is assigned to the addressing board to process the citations and the appeals. That is currently vacant, but we are working to fill that currently. And we also have been working with other divisions in government to require that a proper address is posted to obtain your CO, your certification of occupancy. That's been a hard process to get into, but we are into that deeply, and we've moved forward on that, and I think that has been accomplished. Just for your information, both of these positions and all the positions and addressings are funded through the 911 fund and are not general-funded dollars. Another thing we need to talk about is fire gates. Actually now they're called rule address markers or RAMs. And I have a picture of one here. You can see that in the back. There's actually two of them in this photo. They're brown and they actually go about three and a half feet above the surface and they're about one and a half feet below the surface. They're very flexible. Don't try this, but you can run over them with a car and they'll flex back up. We got those from the highway department and they're used on the interstates. You'll see them on the ramps, especially the circular ramps around New Circle Road, very similar material. We place on there their number on both sides. These are reflective four-inch numbers. And if you go in the rural area, especially at night, you can see these are very well displayed. Currently, our address, our rural address markers are mandated in our ordinance, and our ordinance is required for anyone in the rural service area to notify public safety when their rural address marker is missing or if they need one, et cetera. This is actually a carryover from the 80s when we had fire gate polls out there and people, we did not have an addressing ordinance that required posting of addresses. These are installed only in the rural service area, and often they actually duplicate the property owner signage. If you go in the rural area or in the RSA, you will see that many people actually post their numbers on their gate, or they put a stone entrance, and they'll incorporate it into that. They'll have that number, and then our rural address marker will be out there as well. And also we realized created a problem that in the urban area we are enforcing our address ordinance and requiring people to post their address, but in the rural area we're actually putting it up for them. We find that kind of an imbalance. There is an ongoing and increasing maintenance cost for these fire gate poles or rural address markers. They cost about $25 in materials and then the manpower to actually go and install and maintain those. A lot of areas in the rural areas, they're not needed because the residents or the property owners have actually already posted the numbers either properly on their mailboxes or in their customized address markers that they've created. Some of our goals is to update the ordinances. This has not been updated almost three years, and we've been reviewing the address marker as one of the ways we can do improvements. One of them would be to remove the mandate for the Curtin ordinance because of the duplication and the ever-increasing cost, but, however, still provide that marker to any resident who would like to purchase one, and we would install it for them. This is similar to other counties and states that we reviewed. In Iowa, it's very popular, and there's places in Illinois as well where it's very similar. They will provide the marker or provide it and install at a cost for only those that have requested it. Also allows the property owner, there are a lot of property owners who do not like our markers. They will remove them. So obviously that's a waste of our time and energy to keep replacing them while they remove them. This will also allow us to enforce the address posting ordinance I mentioned earlier consistently throughout the county, either an urban area or rural area. There still will be a requirement to post your address, and it will be the responsibility of the property owners. However, one thing we do want to do is maintain a marking system in the rural area. And that last bullet kind of discusses that, install and maintain a block range markers. What we propose to do is going out on a rural road is put one of these markers every so often block will just mark it. You're at the 3600 block, the 3800 block as you go through. So we will still know as a public safety responder we're getting closer or we've passed the address that we're trying to get to. This will lower the cost, but it will still meet the needs we need of telling our public safety where they are responding to. It will cut down the number that we have, and we will know exactly where they are, and we can keep them updated and maintained with the manpower we have. Now, why is address posting so important? Well, it actually comes down to, in our area, it's the 911. If you call 911, obviously we try to obtain an address from you, because address is what we send the police, fire, and ambulance to. So going to an address is helpful, but it's only helpful if the address is posted. Monthly we have complaints about delayed response, and we review every one of them. Is every one of them due to an address not being posted? No, but I will say more than 70%. When we go out to do a field check, we realize that the address we're looking for is not posted. And it's not just the person, your neighbor, not posting the address. As we go down the street, we expect to see odds on one side and evens on the other. As you drive, you've all done it as you're looking for a house. If you go through a neighborhood and they're not posted, you know, your neighbor not posting kind of slows us down to getting to you as well. And I'm sure a lot of you in your roles have gone door to door through neighborhoods and realized how nice it is when they're well posted and how surprising it is how many are not posted. Or they are posted, but it took you 10 minutes sitting there, staying in the front yard to figure out where it was. Here's a can we find you in time, and that's what it comes down to. In public safety, it's all about time and minutes and getting to you quickly, but getting your address posted properly for us also helps you in your own business. It will help you in getting deliveries from other service providers, be it the pizza person or the person doing your landscaping. So we wish we had the additional manpower to review more than – Right now we are complaint-based. Someone gives us a complaint, we look into it. So outside of new development, we're really slow in catching up and getting areas up to par. And this time I'll open to questions. Mr. Myers. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Lucas, for your presentation. You always have succinct and great information and timely. Going back to the citation needs page, you said there's estimated 24% of 40,000 addresses not in compliant. Do we know about – how many of those do we know where they are, I guess, or do you address those when you find out? What we did is we took three areas of the county geographically and did point by point. We went to every address, and in those three areas it was around 24% consistently. So we just extrapolate that out throughout the county. So we do not know where everyone is. We know where every address is assigned. We just don't know if they're posted properly. Okay. That position that you're looking for, that dedicated staff? Yes, sir. You're saying that the 911 fund is where the money would come from to pay for that? That is correct. We currently fund our addressing section. Ninety percent of all their salaries is out of 911. one is not 100% because I don't want to get in the position that anyone is 100% one fund because we do. For instance, I'm doing the presentation today because the whole addressing staff is actually doing census collection today. We actually have a deadline of November 19th to finish. So obviously they're all working on that diligence. So that's why it's only 90% and not 100%. Okay. Will that fund sustain that position long term? Yes, it will. What do you have to do to put that in place? You need to blue sheet it and send it forward? That is correct. Do you plan to do that? Yes, I do. Okay. And then the last bullet point, require the proper address posting to obtain your CO. At the very end, you said that you think you have that about done. Can you not just put that in the ordinance? Well, it's actually in there, I'll say, on their checklist. FIRE does a checklist, and a lot of different divisions look at have to approve a CO. But it wasn't one of their major ones. It wasn't a deal killer. It was one of those optional. So we've gotten with Division of FIRE and others and moved it up that they do not have this. Don't give them one. So it is a yes or no. Either you have it or you don't. So putting it on that urgency, it's amazing how quickly those numbers go up. Well, if you need any help from us, if you need a motion from us to move that through the full council, to kind of codify that, if that would help. That's very helpful. We are working on updating the ordinance that we have, and we want to add that in there. Okay. I think that's all the questions I have. Thank you. Thank you. Are there any other questions? Mr. Lane. Mr. Lucas, could you spend one minute and address persons who may have housing on private driveways or private roads? I could even have multiple dwellings like on farms and private subdivisions. And what kind of a problem that creates for responders and how these people might be able to get their streets registered in Fayette County? That's a very good point. Especially in the rural area, but there's also some non-rural areas, is the big thing comes up, what's the difference between a private driveway and a private street? Actually, we've set it up that if you have more than three addresses or three buildings that need addressing, your driveway becomes a private street, which will require you name it. We'll put a street sign at the corner wherever it comes off the major road, and the same addressing requirements posting along that road are required. However, in the rural area where you have farms, which are more like campuses, and have multiple buildings and multiple roadway, a road network actually inside of them, we get with the property owner and let them choose. Either name every street inside and we will give you an address off of that, or you can have major, one address assigned off the major road, and then we can give you building numbers, which are similar to the apartment complex. Apartment complex, you'll go in, they'll have one address, then every building is numbered. and every apartment within the building, they actually get with us for those assignments. So in the rural area, we actually work with them to go either way. And there's advantages and disadvantages for either one. Actually, it's more on the property. As far as we're concerned, public safety, if it's posted and posted consistent to our standards, we don't care which way they go. So we give them that option, and we will work with them on where to put the signs, the signage size, the reflectability, and where those are. So some of the farms we have done have really moved forward, and you go into them before, and it was a maze. You would just walk in, and they knew where barn 3 was or barn 18, but now they have at every cross street signs that say go this way or this way for the barns, and when you get to them, there's actually a sign above each one. On that note, we're actually working with Keeneland now, and hopefully by next session, we will be finishing our addressing with them, and they're going to address every one of their buildings, and do internal street names. I think that's all I've got. Thank you very much. Well, I'll do one more question I guess I should throw out. Is there any way that we could better advise the public on this through maybe calling a press conference or putting something on GTV3 or putting a flyer on some of them like the, for example, the water bill, water sewer bills that go out, some way to advise people to put their numbers up? Yes, we actually should do and can do a marketing campaign of some sort because we've worked with some neighborhood associations like Metathorpe, and once they saw how simple it was actually to put the right numbers up, and we do offer a service for those who are not capable of putting a number on their house, maybe they're elderly or they don't have the resources, we've actually installed them for them. So I think maybe doing a push with our neighborhood associations and doing, like you said, some TV3 and some additional to push it, because we did that last spring with our 911 system in conjunction with 311, when to call 311 and when to call 911. And that's a good suggestion. We should probably move forward with that on posting your address, because it's a simple and not a very expensive thing to do for most people. Actually, the simple solution is probably less than $15, but people get into it and they'll spend more. But as long as they do it and post it properly with contrasting numbers, it works out well. Thank you, Mr. Lucas. Ms. Henson. Thank you, Chair. David, I just wanted to make a comment. I live in an older area off of Fersales Road. and my street, when you turn on the street, the even numbers are on the right side and the odd are on the left. But then when you get into the newer section, which my street extends over into a newer section of a newer development, it switches. So do you see that much? Unfortunately, we do. Okay. And what it is is the older section was created and developed before we had rules and guidelines, and the newer section followed the new guidelines. We fix those when we find them, but I will say we choose our battles. If we come to an area that's not really bad, it might flip, but there might be a gap in between, we're going to live with it because we'd rather go with the ones we actually have that will be on their left side than go to the right and then go back to the left. And that's really confusing. So those are the ones we're trying to tackle first. But the one you outlined is not consistent, and we would like to get to that eventually. Okay. I was just wondering if that presented much of a problem. It does create a problem, like I said, when they flip-flop. When they change once, I mean, Texcreek Road changes. If you realize, if you go out Texcreek Road, once you pass alumni, it flips to the other side. However, there's a big gap in there where there's no addresses and anything posted. Are we going to change everybody on the Tate Creek Road? No. But if they post their addresses, it will really alleviate some of these minor problems that we wouldn't have to go and re-address large sections. And you will come to neighborhood association meetings and speak? Yes, I do. I've done that quite often. Okay. Because I really think that education is very important to get folks in compliance. A lot of people don't realize how much we depend on addresses and how simple it is to fix. And usually when you get a neighborhood group together, especially a neighborhood association, they've got that synergy and they can really push and get it done. It's a good project for them. Thank you. Ms. Feigl? Thank you so much for your presentation. That's basically what I was going to suggest, too, is that we work through our neighborhood associations quite a bit. and some of us communicate either through email on a regular basis or electronic newsletters. If you would just send us a little statement that would address all of the information that you would like to get out to the neighborhood associations, I know that we can help get that information out if you could send us something. I'll send you a short statement, which will actually have a link to our urban county webpage, page which will go into very detail of what is required and good examples, photos of good and bad and my contact information where we can schedule if they want me to appear or one of my addressing staff at their neighborhood meeting. MS. Okay. I would appreciate that. Thank you very much. Thank you. Any other questions? So you're going to be bringing something back to us with an ordinance in? MR. Yes. And if you like, I'll bring it back to this committee to review and then we can move it forward from there. I think that would probably be the proper thing. You're suggesting bring back a revised ordinance or ordinance modification? That would be great. Do you think you could do it by our next meeting? When is your next meeting? In a month. What's the date? Yeah, if it's a month, yeah, we could do it for your next meeting. I think it would probably be in January. Could be the middle of January. Actually, our next meeting is December 1st at 1 o'clock. Okay, I'll have something for your packet then. Great, thank you. Now the next item on the agenda is the private solid waste providers, and I do not see anybody from solid waste who actually presented the graphs and the information in the packet. Ms. Quarton put this into committee, and we can go ahead and let her have some discussion, but we might have to postpone this one until we have somebody who actually brought the information forward to us, because I don't see anybody out there. So, Ms. Gorton, if you want to go ahead and start. And I think when we do discuss this, we need to have solid waste here. The reason I put this in committee is because our administration announced that we will be trash-free by 2020. And so that's supposedly our goal as a government. And if we're going to do that, I was interested to see how that worked with the private haulers and what they're doing. And one of the things about these charts is I think it's difficult to, I think it's very important to know who's recycling and who's not, who's offering recycling and who's not, because the recycling, as everybody here knows, has the direct impact on going trash-free. So it's, you know, I think we need solid waste here to discuss this. Right. They presented this in this format, and I think they did a good job with this, and they were apprised of this meeting a couple different times. And we just contacted them again, and we haven't heard back. So unless they're maybe en route but have not got here, I don't think we can go ahead and continue without them being here to explain to you. I wonder if, would you, Mr. Chair, ask for whenever they do come, if they can, for instance, on two of these services, if they can specify whether they accept recycling? Certainly. I'll have Mr. Schonegger follow up with them. So that we know who does and who doesn't. Sure. Thank you very much. Ms. Crosby. I found we've been dealing with actually some solid waste and recycling issues in our district, and I found that in some areas they do, and it's something they can get into more detail with, but I found that in some areas they do offer recycling and in other areas they don't. Like in my specific part of my district, they don't offer recycling, but in other areas they can contract out and offer recycling. So I think it's going to be very specific to almost what street, what area you're talking about. And it makes it quite difficult when you are having this type of discussion because obviously there's just some areas that they cannot offer recycling contracts to. But I don't think it's – yes, Ms. Henson? And I was also going to say that I have found in the areas of the 11th District that have private pickup, they actually charge extra for the recycling bins. So they're not really, it's not encouraging folks to recycle. Right. Well, unfortunately, I don't think we're going to be able to have a complete discussion on this without them with solid waste being here. Yes, Ms. Lawless. I don't know if this goes along these lines and maybe could be added, but I know that there are some apartment areas and condo areas in the third district where they are taxed for garbage collection, but the city either won't or doesn't have trucks that can get in there. so they have to pay to have their dumpsters, even though they have to pay private garbage to pick them up, even though they're taxed as receiving public garbage pickup. So I don't know if that can... Well, I think that's something else we need to address. I know Ms. Crosby had that issue here recently because her roads weren't wide enough. So I think that's something else. That's why I think we need them here. So I recommend that we just move this until the next service committee in December and make sure that they come. But they provide this information so they knew this was on the agenda. So I'm not sure why they're here. Yes, Ms. Crosby? Can we also ask them, too, if they can discuss some of the safety standards? Because that's been another issue that's come up in my area with the private versus the city services, some of the different safety standards with the service that can be provided, if maybe they can go over that as well. Certainly. I think Mr. Schoeniger is taking notes here, and we'll ask the parties to bring all that to the next meeting. Is there any other issues that we'd like to address that we have them address for the next one? And the next one is items in committee. and we have time if we want to go through these and see what we have left here. Okay, the solid waste we're dealing with. Mr. Schoeninger, if you want to go through these. This first item is actually different than what you're dealing with. The solid waste ordinance, as I understand, Council Member Stenner referred to this committee. This relates to the ordinance or the enforcement of taking the roll cards off of the street. and according to waste management or environmental quality they'll be ready for the December meeting for that I think they can be in the umbrella of the trash meeting the second item I'm going to refer to or defer to Council Member Lawless she referred this item in late September I really don't know much it actually should be East Main and Vine The mayor asked me which way, and I'm directionally disabled. Those are state roads. I've gotten information, and I'm trying to set up a meeting with the state folks and the city folks for how we can make that. When you get that information, you'll get that to us? So as soon as I get that information, we can put it on the docket on our services committee. The third item is the multi-way stop at Starshoot and Ogden Way. And this, it says Council Member Beer, but I believe it was Council Member Stenner who referred this item. After contacting traffic engineering, that multi-way stop was installed the first week in October. I haven't talked to Council Member Stendon, but it would seem appropriate that this could be removed if you folks wanted to. Do I have a motion? So moved. Second? Do we have a second? Second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. All those opposed, we'll remove that. You've dealt with the next, you're dealing with the next two items in today's meeting, and then probably for later on as well, the next item is the horse cruelty ordinance that Council Member Beard put into committee. I'm meeting with law later this week to try to draft, get a first draft for Council Member Beard and his aide to look at. The sign ordinance has been dealt with before, but this is still in committee from Council Member Myers. Do we need to send something to General Assembly? I think we get second meeting on that. Okay, so that has been taken care of? Yes. So really I think you should take both of these out. and then we'll just follow up and see what the general assembly says. Take both of them out. Right away. Signed below. Okay. Do I have a motion for that? So moved. Do I have a second? All those in favor say aye. Aye. All those opposed, that passes. The multi-way stop at Glendover Drive in Valley from Councilman Beard, I believe he's waiting for a petition from the neighborhood association, from the neighbors. The next item, curb replacement from Councilman Gordon. This is from back in 05. Ms. Gorton, yeah, no, this is something we need to address. When I put this in committee originally, I had envisioned a program. Some citizens had come to me to see if we had a matching fund program like we do with sidewalks, and we have not really had much money for the sidewalk program, let alone this. I think if we can ever get to the point where we have money for something like this, it would be a good thing because right now, if you live on a street where you have a curb, you're responsible for replacing it totally. But I think if you want to remove it from committee now, that's fine. I'm not. Motion. All right. I think Ms. Feigl had asked that we keep that committee. And Ms. Feigl, could you elaborate on that, please? Thank you, Chair. I didn't really know why this was in committee, but thank you for the history on that. I do appreciate that. And certainly we do need to try and offer some assistance, particularly, I think, because, and this is where I really had hoped to do more research, is that I do think it's a part of our stormwater system, stormwater drainage system. If the curbs are not there, then the water is actually not channeled down the street properly. And so it is a part of our system, and we do need to make sure that it is functioning. Unfortunately, what happens when the city goes out and resurfaces roads over many, many years, those curbs tend to disappear. And when the curbs disappear, we lose our drainage system. So my thought was that this really should be taken up by the Water Quality Committee to talk about the impact on our drainage system. And there's a possibility that we might even be able to use the stormwater management fees to help address some of these situations. Well, we do have a motion presently to remove it. Do you want to withdraw that, Ms. Gorton? Well, I didn't make the motion because I'm not on the committee. but it might be the appropriate thing then is to refer it to the Water Resources Oversight Committee for discussion. What we might want to do is remove it here, and then in council, in the work session, you might refer that to the water quality and then. So we have a motion. I don't know if I had a second on that. Second. So all those in favor of removing this, say aye. Aye. All those opposed? That passes. And then the final. The last item, the automobile usage and reimbursement program, you've asked for an annual update from General Services on how this is going, and I was anticipating that would occur sometime early next calendar year. Okay. If that satisfies you folks. We'll look forward to that in the spring. Anything else? Entertain a motion to adjourn. So moved. We have a motion to say all those in favor say aye. Aye. All those opposed, we are adjourned. Thank you.