# Council Planning Committee - August 24, 2010 > Auto-transcribed civic record · Council · August 24, 2010 - **Permalink**: https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/meeting/1480 - **Source video**: https://lfucg.granicus.com/player/clip/1480?view_id=14&redirect=true - **Date**: 2010-08-24 - **Body**: Council - **Last revised**: June 18, 2026 - **Length**: 9,695 words > ⚠️ **Auto-generated content.** Audio from the official Granicus video was auto-transcribed by OpenAI Whisper-1. Structured facts were extracted with GPT-4o; the narrative summary was written by Anthropic Claude Sonnet. Speaker labels and verbatim wording may contain errors. See [methodology](https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/about/methodology) or [report a correction](mailto:editor@lexingtonky.news). --- ## Meeting Overview The Planning Committee convened on August 24, 2010, at 1:00 P.M. to consider two agenda items. The meeting addressed topics related to land use and community safety planning, covering Fencing Regulations and Secure by Design. The Fencing Regulations item was handled as an informational presentation, while the Secure by Design item was deferred for future consideration. A total of 2 motions or votes were recorded during the session, and no public comments were heard. ## Attendance All ten council members were present at the August 24, 2010 Council meeting. No members were recorded as absent or late. **Present:** - Gorton - Blues - Gray - Ellinger - James - Lawless - Beard - Feigel - Stinnett - McChord ## Votes and Decisions Two motions were brought before the Council during this meeting, both passing by voice vote. - **Remove Parks Master Plan from Committee** [timestamp: 51:35]: Councilmember Stennett moved to remove the Parks Master Plan from the committee, with Councilmember Ellinger providing the second. The motion passed by voice vote. No individual roll call tallies were recorded. - **Remove Downtown Master Plan from Committee** [timestamp: 54:12]: Councilmember Lawless moved to remove the Downtown Master Plan from the committee, with Councilmember Beard providing the second. The motion passed by voice vote. No individual roll call tallies were recorded. Both votes were conducted as voice votes, so no breakdown of individual ayes, nays, or abstentions is available in the record. ## Contested Items - **Fence Height Regulations:** The council engaged in a heated discussion regarding fence height regulations, focusing on the competing considerations of public safety and neighborhood aesthetics. Council members expressed a range of differing views on how best to address the issue, though the specific positions of individual members are not detailed in the available record. The discussion centered on the practical impacts that varying fence heights could have on both the safety and visual character of the community. No specific outcome, vote result, or resolution is recorded in the available data for this item. ## Fencing Regulations [timestamp: 11:20] The Council held a discussion on the regulation of fence heights, focusing on the potential dangers posed by tall fences in front yards. This item was brought forward as an informational discussion rather than a vote or formal action. Councilmember Blues raised concerns about both the safety implications and aesthetic impact of tall front yard fences. Chris King also participated as a key speaker in the discussion. No formal action was taken as a result of this agenda item; it was treated as an informational discussion. ## Secure by Design [timestamp: 50:30] Agenda Item 2 concerned the Secured by Design program, an initiative aimed at encouraging safe design practices in neighborhoods. The item was scheduled for discussion at the August 24, 2010 Council meeting. However, no substantive discussion took place on this item. The Council deferred consideration of the topic due to the absence of two key participants — Councilmember James and Chief Bastin — whose presence was necessary to move the discussion forward. As a result, the item was postponed to a future meeting. No presentations were made, no concerns were raised on the record, and no action was taken. --- ## Decisions - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Remove Parks Master Plan from the committee - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Remove Downtown Master Plan from the committee --- ## Full transcript Drag me out on the floor Dance with me till I can't dance anymore One step, two step, get in line I gotta find a way to make you mine Rock my world I tell her that I love her but it ain't enough She says I gotta learn to be sooner Get a little wild on Saturday night Make sure she's home before the morning light Sunday she's all ribbons and pearls Rock my world, little comfy girl Rock my world, drag me out on the floor Dance with me till I can't dance anymore One step, two step, get in line I gotta find a way to make you mine Rock my world, little comfy girl Rock my world, little comfy girl Rock my world, little comfy girl Rock my world, little comfy girl Rock my world, little comfy girl Rock my world, little comfy girl Silly girls just seem to find out early How to open doors with just a smile A rich old man, she won't have to worry She'll dress up all in lace and go in style Late at night, her big old house gets lonely I guess every former refuge has its price And it breaks her heart to think her love is only Given to a man with hands as cold as ice So she tells him she must go out for the evening I guess every former refuge has its price And it breaks her heart to think her love is only Given to a man with hands as cold as ice So she tells him she must go out for the evening I guess every former refuge has its price And it breaks her heart to think her love is only Given to a man with hands as cold as ice So she tells him she must go out for the evening I guess every former refuge has its price And it breaks her heart to think her love is only Given to a man with hands as cold as ice So she tells him she must go out for the evening I guess every former refuge has its price And it breaks her heart to think her love is only Given to a man with hands as cold as ice So she tells him she must go out for the evening I guess every former refuge has its price And it breaks her heart to think her love is only Given to a man with hands as cold as ice So she tells him she must go out for the evening I guess every former refuge has its price And it breaks her heart to think her love is only Given to a man with hands as cold as ice So she tells him she must go out for the evening I guess every former refuge has its price And it breaks her heart to think her love is only Given to a man with hands as cold as ice So she tells him she must go out for the evening I guess every former refuge has its price And it breaks her heart to think her love is only Given to a man with hands as cold as ice So she tells him she must go out for the evening I guess every former refuge has its price And it breaks her heart to think her love is only Given to a man with hands as cold as ice So she tells him she must go out for the evening I guess every former refuge has its price And it breaks her heart to think her love is only Given to a man with hands as cold as ice So she tells him she must go out for the evening I guess every former refuge has its price And it breaks her heart to think her love is only Given to a man with hands as cold as ice So she tells him she must go out for the evening I guess every former refuge has its price And it breaks her heart to think her love is only Given to a man with hands as cold as ice So she tells him she must go out for the evening I guess every former refuge has its price And it breaks her heart to think her love is only Given to a man with hands as cold as ice So she tells him she must go out for the evening I guess every former refuge has its price And it breaks her heart to think her love is only Given to a man with hands as cold as ice So she tells him she must go out for the evening I guess every former refuge has its price And it breaks her heart to think her love is only Given to a man with hands as cold as ice So she tells him she must go out for the evening I guess every former refuge has its price And it breaks her heart to think her love is only Given to a man with hands as cold as ice So she tells him she must go out for the evening I guess every former refuge has its price And it breaks her heart to think her love is only Given to a man with hands as cold as ice So she tells him she must go out for the evening I guess every former refuge has its price And it breaks her heart to think her love is only Given to a man with hands as cold as ice Thank you very much. The next item of the August 24th planning committee will come to order. And the first item we have on the agenda is fence regulations and councilmember blues put this Well, as you may recall, the question that concerned me was that, you know, why we permit fences as high as six feet in front yards? And I have at least one residence in my district where there is a six foot stockade fence all around the front yard. And aside from aesthetic considerations, next door neighbor whose driveway is right up against that fence cannot, has no sight line on to the sidewalk, trying to back a car out or on to the street. So it constitutes a very not only inconvenient situation, but an extremely dangerous situation. So that is why I put this issue into committee to see whether it is possible to, you know, to regulate this situation. There's probably nothing we can do about existing tall fences that block vision, but it may well be that we're able to, you know, to going forward in the future to prevent such things. This king has really done the heavy lifting on this. What sometimes seems to be a fairly simple issue, why can't we just say that there can be no fences above a certain height and there's an end on it? But as you begin to think about all of the, you know, all of the related issues, it gets a bit more complicated. And Chris has really, I think, seen this question in the context of, well, we hope all of them, and has crafted a, you know, a revised regulation that may work. So we're looking forward for discussion today to see, you know, to see what questions there may be about it and to consider whether we might want to move it forward to the full council or to hold it for further discussion. Very good. Thank you, Council Member Blues. I just wanted to see if, just make a comment, and it might be something that Chris could talk to at the same time, but just coincidentally, I had asked to have this fence ordinance or our fence requirements put into committee as well. I've had some constituents talk to me about the structure of the fencing where the uprights are that they are currently facing toward the main road rather than the interior of the yard. Like on Alumni Drive, there are the stockade fencing where the good side of the fence is toward the house rather than toward the yard, I mean, rather than toward the street. And so I just wanted to see if we had any kind of provision for that. Is that issue, did you say it's already in a committee? No. Oh, okay. I was going to put it in committee, and I found out that Council Member Blues already had this in committee. Okay. I bet Chris knows the answer to that question. Oh, no. Well, Dewey Crow's here. He might know. Okay. So we'll try to get to that also and see if Dewey knows. But Chris King, Director of the Division of Planning, welcome. Thank you. And I don't know that I could add anything to the introduction to this issue that Dr. Blues gave, just a little bit of additional history. You have been working on this issue before, and in January of last year, you had some consideration of an alternative approach to the fencing to deal with site distance, which would have appeared in the Code of Ordinances and might have allowed some different kind of approaches to be taken. But it's my understanding that after further review with law and public safety officials and others, it was decided instead to look at the fence height issue, which I would say is not as detailed or probably as perfect an approach in terms of actually getting to that problem. But to the question of the aesthetic issue and also to greatly improve the percentage possibilities of there being any conflict, we think that this approach that we're going to put before you today would be worthy of consideration. I would also mention that at this point, this is all very preliminary. As Dr. Blues said, this is just a starting point for conversation. And even if the council chooses to initiate an amendment, it would, of course, be a zoning ordinance amendment and have to go through the full process and procedure after being officially initiated by the full council. The planning commission would review it, have a full public hearing, make a recommendation back to you. So it's not like it's something you have to get every little detail perfect on at this point in time. But we did want to kind of put before you what the situation is now and how we feel this might be improved with taking an approach that we've put in your packet today. As you know, you have seen basically a bunch of legalese, which the zoning ordinance is. We thought perhaps the easier way to explain this to you might be through a few visual exhibits. I think we're going to ask to put those up on the overhead now. It might be a little easier rather than pouring through the details to show you what it is that this language is attempting to do. As I was saying, we kind of went old school with this one, not PowerPoint, but crayons and pencils. Bear with us. This first exhibit is basically what the ordinance is today. And it's been this way. We've tracked it back to at least 1969, and my guess is that if we started even looking at older ordinances, that this basic regulatory provision has been what has been in play for the laws of Fayette County for many, many decades. The drawing here, I hope everyone can follow, represents two lots. Okay? Barbara, if you could kind of, thank you, highlight one lot's a corner lot, because corner lot situations are a little bit different. We're going to explain those to you. But we'll start with the lot that appears on the right, which would be more the normal type of lot that you would encounter. The current ordinance requires that any fence within the front yard, okay, and by front yard, you've got to kind of think in zoning law terms of front yard, it doesn't necessarily mean in front of the house, as I'll show you in a minute. But each zone has a prescribed minimum building line, a prescribed minimum front yard. In the example that we've used here, which is fairly typical for most single-family zones, that's shown at 30 feet. Okay? So the house could not, in a new house development situation, could not be closer to the street right-of-way than 30 feet, but it could be pushed back farther, which represents part of those, those details that Dr. Blues was talking about earlier. But under the current law as it exists now, no fence can exceed six feet in height in the front yard area, which we've circled here as the yellow color, and cannot exceed eight feet in height on side and rear yards behind that front building line. So any other portion of the lot, you could have an eight-foot-high fence. And on rare occasions, we do even have folks come to the Board of Adjustment and ask for variance from those height restrictions to go higher. Not typically in the front yards, but in the side and rear on occasion. So that's the situation we have now. And as Dr. Blues pointed out, you don't see it very often, but this basically means that one could go to the right-of-way, right next to the sidewalk in this drawing, right about where we have that six-foot shown along that frontage, and presumably put a fence up to six feet high, solid fence across the front of your property. So that's what we have now. And as Dr. Blues pointed out, when you have that happen, there are some aesthetics concerns perhaps, but more importantly in the safety realm, if there's a driveway running along the side of that house with a lot next door, and someone has a six-foot-high fence that runs along that line or across the front, if they're coming out of their driveway, it's very likely that a fence of that height would impede their visibility up and down the street. You can't generalize for every situation, because site is also affected by curves in the street. Not every street situation is straight 90-degree angles or gridded, and then also you have situations, the elevation of the street, if you're on a steep hill one way or another, your ability to see is also affected. So each situation is different. But obviously in most situations, if you were trying to see through a solid six-foot high while you're sitting in your car, you're not going to have a whole lot of luck. But again, it's not the kind of problem that we see. I'm sure it would have been addressed earlier if that was something folks did a lot. Okay. So in putting something forward for you all to consider to mitigate these potential problems, I want to turn first to the next exhibit. Now we're taking a little look at what this language that appears in your packet would basically say. And that is that for a distance of at least 20 feet back from the street right-of-way, which in this example would be typically the back of the sidewalk, the house side of the sidewalk, you would restrict to a fence height of no more than four feet. And if you think about the community and think about situations you have, it's not uncommon, particularly in older areas of the community, to have four-foot high chain link fences across the front. You have different kinds of walls and things like that. But with having a four-foot height fence, and we would include that down the sidelines at least 20 feet as shown here, that means that you would have a fence no higher than this, and you would greatly, greatly mitigate the potential problems without having to go out and custom fit every individual driveway and fence situation. We did some research and found that probably these days four feet, three-and-a-half feet, four-and-a-half feet is much more typical regulation in front yards than the six feet. We did find some jurisdictions that still had six feet, but certainly going to four feet would not be something that would be seen as extraordinary compared to other communities. So then we thought about, well, what about the area after 20 feet? Again, as we said, that house that we've kind of drawn in there, in this case would be required to be no closer than 30 feet, and, in fact, bigger lots or smaller houses, it could be pushed back quite a bit of distance. And what we thought perhaps would be reasonable is that since you're farther away from the street, we would allow a six-feet height, as is currently allowed, basically from the 20-foot setback line back to the front face of the house wherever it might be. Okay? And then, and that's kind of indicated in the reddish outline in this example, and then in the area where the blue around the framing perimeter of the side and rear yard, you would still allow up to eight feet as per the current ordinance. The next one, we had to kind of deal with a different situation. As you're probably aware, in many older areas of the community, the house may be closer to the street than the front yard line that's required by the zone, because those were put in place before the zoning and the zoning regulations were established. And in this drawing, you can see we've drawn that house as being about 15 feet back from the street. In some cases in older communities, they might be right up on the sidewalk almost five feet, something like that. And what we thought would be reasonable there, since you have something as big as the house potentially blocking your view, it seems that you wouldn't need to worry about the fence quite so much, at least from the right-of-way line back to the house. So in this case, the four-foot fence height restriction would only apply between the right-of-way line and the wall plane, the front wall plane of that house. So once you hit the front wall plane between there and the rest of the normal prescribed setback for that zone, we would allow the six feet, as indicated in the red there. And then again, for the remainder of the side and rear yard, you could have the eight feet as you could today. And that seemed like a reasonable way to deal with those kinds of situations. The last situation we wanted to review with you is corner lots. Corner lots present a little bit of a different challenge, because essentially you have two front yards required by the zone. And one of those is actually referred to in the ordinance as the side street side yard. Whichever yard is the side of the house versus the front of the house has little different restrictions, but basically you're talking about two front yards. Now, if you all just close your eyes a minute, you probably can visualize that how many corner lots have you seen typically where the backyard, in order to create privacy, the landowner comes and puts a tall fence right along the street or along the sidewalk so that they can maximize their private space that you typically don't have in a corner lot. And I was hoping to get out and take a bunch of pictures of these, and they're everywhere, but I just didn't get that opportunity. But I'm sure you can all visualize places that you've been and close by that have that kind of situation. In that case, we thought maybe restricting the four-foot height to within three feet of the right-of-way on that side street side yard. The front yard would be just like we've described it for the other situations, but you can see there along the side street, if you picture the house fronting the wider yellow area in front, right, you have the side yard over on the other street that we would keep the four-foot height, if someone wanted it, right next to the sidewalk. But after looking at some of these, we thought if we came three feet, and that could be five feet, it could be ten feet, at that point then allow them a six-foot high fence to create more privacy. And then on the remainder of their property, once you got past the side street side yard, you could go with the eight-foot high, excuse me, fencing. Basically, that's what this language purports to do. And again, our hope was that it would still allow folks reasonable fencing for most of the kinds of situations that we see that they might have. Please remember that if these laws were put into effect, one would always have the opportunity to go to the Board of Adjustment. This would become the new rule, and exceptions still could be granted by the Board of Adjustment. Also remind you that as a zoning ordinance, that any situations out there that don't meet this would be allowed to remain. They would be legal, nonconforming uses. There would not be enforcement to, oh, you've got a brick wall that's six feet high along the sidewalk here. And, you know, it would be able to stay, it would be able to be repaired, it would be able to be maintained. If you have any details or questions about that, Dewey can explain those procedures. But basically, we just wanted to throw that out there for your idea. We think it would improve the situation and still allow people to have a fair amount of fencing that most folks would find reasonable. Chris, thank you very much. And I did ask Paul to go ahead and maybe get from you or Barb one of the color copies of each plan, and we'll make copies for the committee members. Committee members, do you have any questions about the presentation or comments? Council Member Stennett. Thank you, Chair. This was an issue, one of the first issues I tackled when I got elected to council about six years ago. The problem we concluded with, though, is what you just said, Chris, is that any current fences stay up. And that's the problem here. This does solve any future new applications for fence permits, provided that Dewey Crow's division can see if there was a fence there or not there previously. We have one site in my district in question now that just put up a fence on their own, and no one can prove otherwise, and the GIS doesn't really give conclusive evidence. So that's going to be the tough thing, is to see whether or not a fence was there or not. Obviously, eyewitness accounts help. But going forward, I think this is a good change for all new fences. But we still have the same problem with current fences. And I guess, did you all look at that at all? I guess there's nothing legally we can do with current fences. With current fences, if you remember the legislation that we put before you back in January, I wasn't the one presenting it, but you did back at your January meeting, and I have that here. We had suggested that in the code of ordinances you could have an investigation, and if a facility was declared a site distance hazard that was a clear danger to the public, then it would give enforcement authority against that. But, again, it's my understanding there were some issues with that. I was here at that meeting in January, and then upon further review with law department and public safety officials, I think it was decided that there were some inherent problems in that that made them want to kind of put that to the side, at least for now, and focus on the fence height approach. Yeah, and to that issue, you know, if there is a current fence that a property owner feels it does give them a public safety issue when they back out of their property, you can always take that to court and let a judge decide on the status of that fence, even though we can't write an ordinance to make them remove it or reduce the height. That's the conclusion we came up with six years ago, is the current fence is going to be tough to regulate right now. But going forward, this is a good change. Thank you, sir. Council members, if you have questions, please log into your screen. I don't see any right now, but we have Council Member Blues. The requirement here is that if you want to build a fence, you go to building inspection for a building permit. So that going forward, people would know that as long as they apply, that these regulations would be enforced and that they would either conform to them or apply to the BOA for a variance. Regarding Council Member Feigl's issue, which it seems to me, I think that a number of homeowners associations prohibit putting the backside of a fence toward the street or toward the neighbors, and I think that that's a reasonable prohibition where you put the posts and the stringers so that you don't see them, but that your neighbor is obliged to. And I would think that if it does seem feasible and advisable to incorporate that provision in, you know, in this proposal, that we ought to go beyond prohibiting that practice along the public right-of-way, but all around the fence. Just a thought, but it does seem to me that it's quite reasonable to say, if you're going to build a fence, put the inside of the fence on your side. I did that last year on my own personal property. I know that's the customary way. You show your good side to your neighbor. I think that's just being a good neighbor. I don't know of any regulation currently in place either under the Code of Ordinances or other perhaps building code. I don't know. It may be that just that's the more customary practice. I don't know any reason offhand why. I don't know exactly how I would write it, but, you know, you could probably make some kind of provision in the zoning ordinance where there is a fence or require that the solid fabric, whatever it is, would be facing to the outside or something. I've never seen that. I've never researched it either. We could certainly look into that, certainly could make it a part of anything that is considered. Well, it does seem to me that if this seems reasonable, feasible, there's no reason, you know, to do one thing and then do another later on. We could incorporate into the same piece of legislation. So I'd be happy to work with Council Member Figo and with you and see what we can do. We might want to look at some deeds of restriction for a homeowner's association because I know that that kind of provision is in many of them. Thank you, Chris. Thank you. Thank you. And it might be that council members want to make these two separate issues. I don't know that for sure. So with that, Council Member Figo is next. And eventually when we're off of your presentation, we'll hear from Dewey. I think what I had considered when this issue came to me is I thought maybe that I would take it to the Corridors Committee, but I don't think they really deal with policy. So I thought maybe this was the more appropriate place. But primarily I was interested in trying to do something on the major corridors, not so much interior streets as the major corridors. But that was just my first thought. I don't have a problem with looking beyond that, but, you know, that was initially where I thought I'd like to go with that. And there's a section in this language where we talk about the heights of fences that back up to streets that prohibit access, like Man of War and others here. And perhaps it could be an adjunct to that part of the regulation, something like that, if what you're really concerned is not so much private property to private property relationship but a relationship with the public street right of way. Council Member Lawless. I, too, have my fence with the inside facing my yard. But just something to think about, years ago at a previous residence, one of my neighbors had put up a fence on his side yard that faced, if you will, the pretty side to my yard. The neighbor behind me did one that had the inside facing my yard. And when I went to put one up, I didn't know which to do. So it was a hodgepodge. I tried to match the fence, and what I ended up doing is putting planks over the existing fence. But that was quite so. I think we need to keep that in mind as we're making any kind of policy about you might be in a situation where you're boxed in with three neighbors that have done three different things or whatever. So that's my two cents on unintended impact. Thanks. Julian. Excuse me, Council Member Beard. Thank you, Madam Chairman, Chairperson. Chris, how would you handle fences of greater height that are being utilized as sound barriers? There are places, plenty of places where I've driven along, and they're 15 to 20 feet high. And I can think of a situation where it may be employed or may need to be employed on Tates Creek Road when they tear out, they've got mature growth there and the growth will have to go. And nobody can afford to put the trees back the way they were. And so there may be a need for a fence of that height. Is that a board of adjustment approach? I would say if it were being put up by the private entity, yes. As it's written now, it would be something that would go to the board of adjustment. And that's the kind of situation I think that would tend to give some justification. As to the ones that you see along the interstates and places like that where they're being installed by government, by the highway department, those would not be covered under the regulations since the government entity would be exempt. So, again, if it was a public works project to create sound buffer, then it would not be in conflict. There may be a need then for the state of Kentucky or whomever to, at least in this one stretch I'm thinking of, put those up or put something up that would work. I never thought the defense, some of them almost look like armor-plated things that I've seen. And in some cases, they're partially a retaining wall, it looks like, extended. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Beard. I'm just thinking up here how to do this. It seems like there's at least beginning support for what you've brought us. And there's a need to hear from Mr. Crow and maybe do some more research on the other issue, the fence, the way the fence faces. So, Council Members, do you want to show any kind of support for what we're talking about today in terms of the presentation that Chris made but hold it in committee and ask you all to come back with something about the facing of fences? Or do you want to hold it all? What would you like to do? Council Member Bluth. Well, absent of any material objection to this proposal, I don't think we need to formalize it but that it would be safe to be able to say, we have a zoning ordinance revision here that seems to be reasonable. Let's look at it further to see whether we might, and if so, how we might incorporate the fence facing question into it and come back with that discussion, with that answer at our next planning committee meeting. Does that make sense? That does make sense. Is there anyone who wants to keep these two separate issues, the facing of the fence as opposed to the height of the fence? Do you want to have them together or two separate? Council Member Lawless. Sorry, I changed seats. It seems to me they're two separate but I'm fine with whatever. But I'm fine with whatever the committee wants to do. I mean, I... Okay. Council Member Feigl, and then if there's no more discussion, we'll hear from Dewey Crowe. It really doesn't matter to me. I don't want to hold Council Member Blue's effort up unless, you know, I mean, if there's some urgency to move forward with it, I don't have a problem with that. But if you, you know, if you don't mind holding it, I think it would be a good idea maybe to consider it as one issue just because throughout the discussion of this it may be that there are some other ideas that come out too. No, I think that, you know, if this can be incorporated into this proposal, it makes good sense. And I think it would make the whole process a little simpler in the long run. So it's worth holding off for a month or so and discussing it and see what we come back with. Okay, very good. Could we hear from Mr. Crowe about the fence direction, whether there's any current law or anything on the books or what guides people now? Good afternoon. Welcome. To the best of my knowledge, there is no citywide requirement to face a fence either in any one direction. As Council Member Blues pointed out, we are aware of lots of deed restrictions in various subdivisions that do regulate what direction certain types of fences face and how they face and even to the point of dictating specifically what type of fence you're allowed to put up. But those aren't issues that we enforce. Again, we don't enforce deed restrictions. Those are strictly up to the homeowners associations and the individual owners to ensure that they're putting their fence up after they get the permit that they're putting up in compliance not only with the city's zoning regulations but with their owners association restrictions. But there isn't any countywide requirement as to how a fence faces. Would you be able to do some research on that maybe in conjunction with Mr. King about what other cities do, whether there's a good way to handle this and bring this back at the October, excuse me, the September meeting? Okay, that would be September, right, exactly. That would be September 21st. And then we can bring back, we could bring back what you've brought us today, Chris. And then maybe add to it the facing of fences. The only comment I would make about any type of facing requirement, it potentially has an enforcement issue due to subjectivity. And you kind of reminded the old adage, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So there are fence types out there that are very obvious. What's considered the good side versus the less good side. There are other fence types that we've seen that very subtle differences. And what someone favors is the good versus the bad can vary. So there's a little bit of an enforcement issue. We would urge that if we look at anything, we do it very concisely. There's something that we can make very quick determinations on, like the height. These are very straight up, very straightforward, very easy to enforce, easy to convey to homeowners exactly what the requirements are. Well, how about if you and Chris bring us that? Something that's easy to interpret. And perhaps to start with, follow the guideline which Councilmember Feigl suggested on our corridors. As opposed to, I think Councilmember Feigl, you were not initially thinking of deep into neighborhoods. You were thinking of our main corridors. Are you thinking of the arterials only or? Well, I think that's something that we would have to talk about. I think, you know, the arterials and the major arterials and minor arterials, those are just a whole range of different size corridors that we could look at. So I guess we'd have to cut it off somewhere. But certainly on the major corridors. Okay. How does that sound to the committee and to you all? See what you can find that's good, easy to interpret, and that people understand. And then we'll put that on for September 21st. Okay. Any other questions? Thank you very much to both of you for being here. Really appreciate it. Our second issue, Councilmember James put in committee, and it's secure by design. And Councilmember James couldn't be here. She is ill. And also Chief Bastin, our police chief, couldn't be here. And so we're going to delay that. We'll delay that until September also, September 21st. And so, Councilmembers, if you'll turn to the back page and look at our issues in committee that are outstanding. Are there any issues on here that you know of which can be removed or that you know will be ready? We're working real hard to get all these ready. Councilmember Stennett? I would make a motion to remove the Parks Master Plan from the committee at this time unless anyone has an issue with the plan itself. I know I see on there Parks Master Plan funding, which is a separate issue. But I personally don't need my name attached to it because I don't have any further issues with it. Okay, do I? I think we vetted it. Okay. Councilmember Stennett moves to remove Parks Master Plan and seconded by Councilmember Ellinger. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Anyone opposed? Okay, so that will be removed. Is there any other issue that's ready or that needs to be removed? Councilmember Beard? One question, Councilmember Feigl. What exactly, there is a downtown Lexington building inventory already in place. So what do you anticipate? I thought, Paul, can you clarify that? And if I put words in your mouth, I don't mean to. But it's my understanding that the DDA and the Historical Preservation Department will come to you folks. They came to you, they came to the council, here's the inventory, I believe they're going to come back to you and say how they're going to, how they want to use that inventory. And I don't know the answer to that. Okay, but they'll come back to this committee? Yes, yes, sir. Yes. And in fact, I believe they'll be ready to do that in October. In October. Okay. So, Mr. King, is that, no, you didn't have a question about that. We have been, Paul and I have been working with everyone who has one of these issues in committee to try to move them along. So eventually we want to get these 2007 and 2008 issues vetted and off of our docket. So was there another comment? Council Member Lawless. I have the downtown master plan which we moved to the full council for approval as a concept. And we now have the guideline form or design or whatever task force going. So I don't know if you want to take it off there or. What, would you go ahead and make that motion? I think it's. Yeah, I moved to take it off. Okay, Council Member Lawless moved and Council Member Beard seconded to remove the downtown master plan, which I think your point is well taken. The whole plan was approved in concept and the form-based code design guideline task force is up and running. So is there more discussion about that motion? All those in favor, please say aye. All those opposed, same. Okay, that will be removed. Is there anything else at this point? It looks like our September meeting will be fence height and. Pardon me. Yes, it'll be like the August meeting fence height and secure by design. And then in October, the downtown building inventory should be ready to present and we may have another issue ready. So, yes, Council Member Feigl. Thank you, Chair. I think that there's a possibility that the parks master plan funding might be available in September. We, I just wanted to announce that we are going to have a special speaker on Wednesday, the 25th of August. His name is Bill Juckett and he is with the Louisville Olmstead Conservancy. And he is going to come and make a presentation to us on how we might go about creating a conservancy for our parks plan, parks master plan. And that is open to the public. I invite all of you to attend. I think it will be a very informative meeting. I don't know if you're aware of the Louisville Olmstead Conservancy, but it's a very successful foundation. And so that is tomorrow. Yeah, it's going to be tomorrow night. It's in the Phoenix building on the second, third floor conference room. And it begins at 6 o'clock. So I would invite all of you to come if you are so inclined to do that. Will that be taped? So we have not arranged for that, but we can possibly do that. Or even audioed. There are probably a number of us who can't attend that. It might be helpful if we could get the audio even. Okay, we'll make that happen. Okay, that would be great. Thank you very much. And so if you can let Paul or myself know by the September 21st is the planning meeting. So if you could let us know perhaps by September 10th, whether that will be ready. That'll help in our planning for the meeting. Any other issues? If not, do I hear a motion to adjourn? All those in favor say aye. Anyone opposed? Meeting is adjourned. Thank you all very much. ♪ In a place where there used to be a happy home. In the house on the corner of a lonely and gone. If she talked about leaving, I wasn't listening. She showed me a sign, well I never saw. Did she stop believing? Did I stop giving? Hey, putting my finger on what went wrong. Now the quietest noise I'm told is the sound of letting go. Could have heard a tear drop. Could have heard a heart break. Never saw the flood come, even though I felt the rain. Never heard a house sound so loud with memories where there used to be a happy home. In the house on the corner of a lonely and gone. Whoa, never heard a house sound so loud with memories where there used to be a happy home. In the house on the corner of a lonely and gone. ♪ There must be some misunderstanding. There must be some kind of mistake. I waited in the rain for hours. You were late. Now it's not like me to say the right thing. But you could have called to let me know. I checked your number twice and don't understand it. I went home. Well, I've been waiting for this weekend. I thought that maybe we could see a show. I never dreamed I'd have this feeling. All I've seen of you is believing. That's why I don't know why you didn't show that night. There must be some misunderstanding. There must be some kind of mistake. I was waiting in the rain for hours. You were late. Since then I've been running around trying to find you. I went to the places that we'd always go. I rang your house, got no answer. Jumped in my car and I ran round it. Still don't believe it. You were just leaving. There must be some misunderstanding. There must be some kind of mistake. There must be some misunderstanding. There must be some kind of mistake. There must be some kind of misunderstanding. There must be some kind of misunderstanding. There must be some kind of misunderstanding. I've been a whole lot easier since you left town. Been a whole lot happier without a face around. Nobody up stairs will stop and shout. Nobody at the back door won't pull my laundry out. She holds a shotgun while your touch head Don't. Shotgun while your touch head Don't. She want one man made of her knees and supernova. I've been a whole lot easier since the bitch is gone. Little Miss, Little Miss, Little Miss can't be wrong. Little Miss, Little Miss, Little Miss can't be wrong. Ain't nobody gonna bow no more, yet the sound is gone. Little Miss, Little Miss, Little Miss can't be wrong. What you gonna do? You can't do another one of these now that you're gone. All the people stop, say ain't y'all hand-me-downs. Would it be so bad as if they turned around and You cook so well, all nice and French. You do your brain surgery too, mama, but with your monkey wrench. Little Miss, Little Miss, Little Miss can't be wrong. Ain't nobody gonna bow no more, yet the sound is gone. Little Miss, Little Miss, Little Miss can't be wrong. What you gonna do? You can't do another one of these now that you're gone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can't be wrong. No, no, no, no. Can't be wrong. Oh, you can't be wrong. Can't be wrong. Can't be wrong. No, no, never. Can't be wrong. I hope them cigarettes are gonna make you cough. I hope you have this song and it puts you off. I take that back, I hope you're doing fine. And if I had a dollar, I might give you 99. Little miss, little miss, little miss. Can't be wrong, yeah. Ain't nobody gonna love no wrong. Yeah, for sound you know. Little miss, little miss, little miss. Little miss, little miss. Can't be wrong. What you gonna do? You can't do nothing when the beat has rock and roll sound. Oh, little miss, little miss, little miss. Little miss can't be wrong. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Oh, you can't be wrong. No, you can't be wrong. You can't be wrong. Oh, little miss, little miss, little miss. Little miss, little miss can't be wrong. No. Oh. Yeah, little miss, little miss, little miss. Little miss can't be wrong. No. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. My friend, what new I had for you all the time? What can I say? I don't feel the need to give such secrets away. You think maybe I need help, you know I know I'm right. Alright. I'm just better off not listening to friends' advice. But they insist on knowing my bliss. I tell them this when they wanna know what the reason is. I only smile when I lie, then I tell them why. Because your kiss, your kiss is on my list. Because your kiss, your kiss is on my list. Because your kiss is on my list. You're the best thing to lie. Because your kiss, your kiss is on my list. Because your kiss, your kiss I can't resist. Because your kiss is what I miss when I turn out the light. I go crazy wondering what there is to really see. Does the night just take up your time? Cause it means more to me. Sometimes I forget what I'm doing, I don't forget what I want. I won't regret what I've done, regret you. I couldn't go on. But if you insist on knowing my bliss. I tell you this if you wanna know what the reason is. I only smile when I lie, then I'll tell you why. Because your kiss, your kiss is on my list. Because your kiss, your kiss I can't resist. Because your kiss is what I miss when I turn out the light. When I turn out the light. When I miss you baby. Ooh. Because your kiss, your kiss is on my list. Because your kiss, your kiss is on my list. Because your kiss is on my list, Of the best thing to lie. Oh man. Because your kiss, your kiss is on my list. Because your kiss, your kiss I can't resist. Because your kiss is on my list, Of the best thing to lie. Girl, to be with you is my favorite thing. Yeah. And I can't wait till I see you again. Yeah. I wanna put on my, my, my, my, my boogie shoes. To boogie with you. Yeah. I wanna put on my, my, my, my, my boogie shoes. To boogie with you. Uh-huh. I wanna do until the sun comes up. Oh yeah. Uh-huh. I wanna do until I can't get enough. Yeah, yeah. Uh-huh. I wanna put on my, my, my, my, my boogie shoes. To boogie with you. Yeah. I wanna put on my, my, my, my, my boogie shoes. To boogie with you. Woo. Yeah. Boogie down, boogie down. Woo. I wanna put on my, my, my, my, my boogie shoes. To boogie with you. Yeah. I wanna put on my, my, my, my, my boogie shoes. To boogie with you. Yeah. I wanna put on my, my, my, my, my boogie shoes. To boogie with you. Yeah. I wanna put on my, my, my, my, my boogie shoes. To boogie with you. Yeah. I wanna put on my, my, my, my, my boogie shoes. To boogie with you. She knows every move that a man could make. She knows every trick in the book. She knows how to give. She knows how to take. But so many times she's been taken a fool. By those alibis and her lying eyes And all the best of lies The Lord knows she's heard them all. She's heard them all. She's been cheated on and pushed around And left alone. The Lord knows what I've put her through. And boy you can bet If a move can be made She knows how to make one on you. She once thought that love wasn't just a game Her feelings watch came from the heart One day I gave her a wedding ring And one night I tore all those feelings apart With my alibis and lying eyes And all the best of lies The Lord knows she's heard them all. She's been cheated on and pushed around And left alone. The Lord knows what I've put her through. And boy you can bet If a move can be made She knows how to make her own alibis And lying eyes And all the best of lies The Lord knows she's heard them all. She's been cheated on and pushed around And left alone. The Lord knows what I've put her through. And boy you can bet If a move can be made She knows how to make one on you. He went to Paris Looking for answers To questions that bothered him so He was impressive Young and aggressive Saving the world on his own He's been cheated on and pushed around And lying eyes And all the best of lies The Lord knows what I've put her through. With the warm summer breezes And French wines and cheeses Put his ambition at bay And summers and winters Scattered like splinters And four or five years Slipped away And he went to England Played the piano And married an actress Named Kim They had a fine life She was a good wife And bore him a young son Named Jim And all of the answers And all of the questions Locked in his attic one day He liked the quiet Clean country living And twenty more years He lived Well the war took his baby Bombs killed his lady And left him with only one eye His body was battered His whole world was shattered And all he could do Was just cry While the tears were falling He was recalling Answers he never found So he hopped on a freighter Skidded the ocean And left England Without a sound Now he lives in the islands Fishes the islands Drinks his green label Each day Writing his memoirs Losing his hearing But he don't care What most people say Through 86 years Of perpetual motion If he likes you He'll smile at you And if he doesn't He'll lose his emotion If he likes you He'll smile and he'll sing Jimmy Some of it's magic Some of it's tragic But I had a good life All the way He went to Paris Looking for answers To questions That bothered him so Oh Here I am Just like I said I would be I'm Your friend Just like you think It should be Did you think I would stand here and lie While our moments Were passing apart Oh I Am here waiting For your change of heart It just takes a beat To turn it around Yes I'm waiting For your change of heart At the edge of my seat Please turn it around Please turn it around Days Go by Leaving me with a hunger I Could fly Back to when we were younger When adventures Like ours we would ride And the years Lie ahead still I'm trying While I Stand here waiting For your change of heart It just takes a beat To turn it around Yes I'm waiting For your change of heart At the edge of my seat Please turn it around Turn it around Around around Turn it around Around around Turn it turn it Turn it around Mind Leading mind Never feel the laughter Cause Sometimes Nothing reveals the answer If there's a truth That you're looking to find It's just nowhere Outside of your mind But I Find time Waiting for your change of heart It just takes a beat To turn it around Yes I'm waiting For your change of heart At the edge of my seat Just turn it around Yes I'm waiting For your change of heart It just takes a beat To turn it around Yes I'm waiting For your change of heart At the edge of my seat Please turn it around Turn it around Around around Turn it around Around around Turn it turn it Turn it around Turn it turn it Turn it around And I'm Waiting for your Change of Heart Ooh Waiting for your Change of Heart Thank you for watching! Please like and subscribe! See you next time! Just off of a beaten path A little dot On a state road map That's where I was born And where I'll die Things move At a slower pace Nobody's in The rat race And these days That's a special way of life Down home Where they know you by name And treat you like family Down home A man's good word And a handshake Are all you need Folks know If they're falling on hard times They can fall back home Those of us raised up Down home In the corner Of the hardware store Gathered round A checkered board With old men Telling lies And crowning kings Kids driving Down the old town square Hops roll down In the cool night air Go and see what's Shaking at the Dairy Queen Down home Where they know you by name And treat you like family Down home A man's good word And a handshake Are all you need Folks know If they're falling on hard times They can fall back home Those of us raised up Down home When I was born I couldn't wait To leave this place But now I wanna see My children raised Down home Down home Down home Folks know If they're falling on hard times They can fall back home Those of us raised up Down home Where they know you by name And treat you like family Down home A man's good word And a handshake Are all you need Folks know If they're falling on hard times They can fall back home Those of us raised up Down home Down home Way down home Way down home Down home Down home Way down home Down home Way down home Well it was nearly summer We sat on your roof Yeah we smoked cigarettes And we stayed at the moon And I showed you Stars you never could see Baby it couldn't have been That easy To forget about me Baby tell me Nothing, anything seemed real Yeah you confused Like fire When you made me feel Like every word You said Was meant to be No it couldn't have been That easy To forget about me Baby even the losers Get lucky sometimes Even the losers Keep a little bit of pride They get lucky sometimes Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! Took our spark And the old past Set the world Like a broken glass I should have known right then It was too good to last God is such a drag When you live in the past Baby even the losers Get lucky sometimes Even the losers Keep a little bit of pride They get lucky sometimes Baby even the losers Get lucky sometimes Even the losers Keep a little bit of pride Yeah they get lucky sometimes Baby even the losers Get lucky sometimes Even the losers Get lucky sometimes Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Even the losers