# Council Budget & Finance - September 27, 2011 > Auto-transcribed civic record · September 27, 2011 - **Permalink**: https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/meeting/2188 - **Source video**: https://lfucg.granicus.com/player/clip/2188?view_id=14&redirect=true - **Date**: 2011-09-27 - **Last revised**: July 17, 2026 - **Length**: 6,765 words > ⚠️ **Auto-generated content.** Audio from the official Granicus video was auto-transcribed with OpenAI's open-source Whisper large-v3-turbo model, run locally by The Lexington Times. Structured facts were extracted with GPT-4o; the narrative summary was written by Anthropic Claude. Verbatim wording may contain errors. See [methodology](https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/about/methodology) or [report a correction](mailto:editor@lexingtonky.news). --- ## Meeting Overview The Budget & Finance Committee met on September 27, 2011. During the meeting, the committee addressed three agenda items, heard eight public comments, and took one vote. Two informational presentations were provided: a Monthly Budget Report covering August 2011 and a presentation on the Administration's FY 12 Budget Reduction Exercise. The committee deferred action on Items Referred to Committee to a later date. ## Attendance The following individuals were present at the meeting on September 27, 2011: * Ellinger * Lane * Gorton * Kay * Farmer * Stinnett * Myers * Beard * Lawless * Blues No absences or late arrivals were recorded. ## Votes and Decisions **Motion to Adjourn** Mr. Schoeniger moved to adjourn the meeting [timestamp: 0:45:17]. The motion passed by voice vote with no opposing votes recorded. The following members voted in favor: Ellinger, Lane, Gorton, Kay, Farmer, Stinnett, Myers, Beard, Lawless, and Blues. ## Public Comment Several committee members and officials provided input on budget planning and fiscal management during the meeting. **Budget Planning and Revenue Forecasting** Mr. Lane [0:30:39] advocated for proactive budget cuts rather than waiting for revenue shortfalls to materialize. He emphasized the lag in revenue data and stressed the importance of fiscal responsibility in addressing potential budget gaps early. Dr. Cain [0:38:46] proposed holding an early, small-group workshop with the council, mayor, and administration to discuss budget planning, revenue forecasts, and policy issues before the formal budget process begins. Mr. Beard [0:41:36] supported this approach, suggesting alternative locations such as Tates Creek Golf Course and expressing a preference for small, interactive sessions over formal presentations. **Budget Assumptions and Capital Planning** Mr. Stinnett [0:15:09] requested a one-pager to track progress on key budget assumptions including health care, collective bargaining, and capital planning. He emphasized the urgency of developing a capital plan before the next budget cycle [0:40:20] and stressed the importance of early policy discussions, such as decisions regarding internal security forces, to allow for council input before budget implementation. **Audit Status and Fund Management** Vice Mayor Gorton [0:09:07] inquired about the status of audits for partner agencies, noting that the Lexington Center Corporation audit was complete but others remained pending. Ms. Lawless [0:28:17] questioned why certain lines on the reduction plan sheet were darkened, particularly those related to constitutional and partner agencies, seeking clarification on their status. **Reserve and Special Funds** Mr. Beard [0:29:02] asked about the status of the emergency reserve fund and whether surplus funds from the prior fiscal year would be allocated to it. He also inquired about the solvency of the Streetlight Fund. ## Contested Items **Inclusion of Council in Budget Reduction Planning** Council members raised concerns about their involvement in the budget reduction planning process. The disagreement centered on whether the council should be included in submitting budget reduction proposals. Council members expressed worry about being included in the reduction planning despite not being formally asked to submit proposals. Vice Mayor Gorton clarified the situation, explaining that the council was on the list for guidance but was not currently required to submit plans. This distinction between being included for informational purposes versus being formally tasked with submitting reduction proposals appeared to resolve the immediate concern, though it reflected broader questions about the council's role in the budget process. **Streetlight Fund Solvency and Capital Planning** A heated discussion emerged regarding the financial health of the Streetlight Fund and the urgency of capital planning. Mr. Stinnett raised urgent concerns about the fund's solvency, noting that it was already operating in a deficit position. He emphasized that delays in planning could lead to serious operational issues by the next fiscal year. The concern was not merely about current financial status but about the trajectory and timing of necessary corrective action. Stinnett's warnings highlighted the risk that without prompt attention to capital planning, the fund could face significant difficulties meeting its operational obligations in the coming year. This discussion underscored the tension between immediate budget constraints and the need for proactive long-term financial planning to prevent future crises. ## Monthly Budget Report (August 2011) [timestamp: 00:00] Bill Mayer presented the August 2011 monthly budget report to the council, providing an overview of the municipality's financial performance and key economic indicators. **Key Presentation Points** The report highlighted several important trends: - A decrease in local unemployment - Positive year-to-date revenue performance - A year-to-date surplus of $1.3 million **Council Discussion and Requests** Council members engaged with the presentation and requested additional information to better understand the financial picture: - Council members asked for additional historical data to provide context for current figures - A request was made for a macro-level view comparing revenues versus expenses **Outcome** The agenda item was informational in nature, with no formal action taken. The presentation provided the council with an update on the municipality's August 2011 financial status while identifying areas where council members wanted more detailed analysis and historical perspective for future reporting. ## Administration's FY 12 Budget Reduction Exercise [timestamp: 00:20:37] The committee discussed the administration's proactive request for agencies to submit contingency plans outlining both 5% and 10% budget reductions in anticipation of potential fiscal shortfalls for fiscal year 2012. **Key Discussion Points** Council members raised several questions about the scope and process of the budget reduction exercise: - **Council's inclusion in the process**: Members questioned whether the council itself would be included in submitting reduction plans alongside other agencies. - **Streetlight Fund status**: The committee inquired about the current status of the Streetlight Fund and how it factored into the reduction planning. - **Capital planning timeline**: Council members asked about the timing of future capital planning decisions in relation to the budget reduction exercise. **Administration's Response** The administration, represented by speakers including Bill Mayer, Ryan Barrow, Mr. Lane, Mr. Stinnett, and Mr. Beard, confirmed that the collection of reduction plans from agencies was ongoing. The administration emphasized the importance of early preparation and proactive planning to address potential fiscal challenges, rather than waiting until shortfalls materialized. **Outcome** The discussion was informational in nature, with no formal action taken. The administration's position that advance preparation of contingency reduction plans was necessary and prudent was acknowledged, though council members' questions about the process and specific fund implications remained part of the record for further consideration. ## Items Referred to Committee [timestamp: 00:42:42] The committee reviewed several items that had been referred for further analysis and development. Key speakers in this discussion included Mr. Schoeniger, Vice Mayor Gorton, and Mr. Lane. The following items were discussed: - **Board of Architecture Review Fee Structure**: This item was under review, with completion expected by November. - **Economic Contingency Ordinance**: The committee anticipated receiving this item for consideration next month. - **Solid Waste Management**: The Waste Management Task Force had convened once and would be addressing key issues related to solid waste management going forward. - **Procurement-Related Issues**: A procurement task force was nearing completion of its report, which would address three main areas: - Local vendor preference - Minority women business recruitment - Procurement processes **Outcome**: The items referred to committee were deferred for continued work and future presentation. --- ## Decisions - **Motion** — passed: Motion to adjourn the meeting --- ## Full transcript And it is the monthly budget report. And I see Bill Mayer coming to the podium. Welcome. Thank you. This is for the month of August 2011, second month into the year. And the first slide is traditionally showing you a comparative unemployment rate. The top yellow line is Kentucky. and between July and August it was unchanged at 9.5%. The next line is green, which is the United States average, and it was unchanged July and August at 9.1%. The red line is MSA, and we have plotted through July, but I have the August numbers as well. The MSA, July was 8.1, and August came in at 7.4. and then Fayette County is the bottom line, and we were at 7.4 in July, and in August it's at 7.2. So we are experiencing flat on state and federal, but in the local area we have some decrease in the unemployment. The next is the same information, but looking at a three-month average, kind of trying to smooth out some of the spikes up and down. And then the third slide has selected economic indicators. And I would show you that the second line is the Fayette employment, and we noticed that there was a spike between May and June from 146,000 to 147,000. and as you can see in July it came in at $145.8. The permits issued and the new business licenses are virtually flat. There was an uptick in home sales from July to August. Unfortunately, there was also an uptick in foreclosures between July and August. The month of August, the top four revenue categories, we were expecting a timing difference between July and August in withholding, and that came true. If you'll remember, we were below budget in July. In August, we were over budget. The net profits is slightly below the budget. Insurance is virtually flat. The franchise fees are up just a little. If you look at the two months together, the year-to-date budget compared to year-to-date actual through August, we do show positive trends in each category. The encouraging one would be the employee withholdings. Net profit is showing slight uptick, which we were anticipating. Insurance and franchise fees are slightly ahead. So actual August year-to-date compared to the budget is up $1.3 million. The monthly budget, I would point out to you, is based on a five-year average of the different months. So where we have had some volatility between July and August or August, September, September and October, we're trying to smooth that out by looking at what July is five years in a row. So there will be some smoothing in the monthly budgets when we're comparing with the actual. And then finally, I tried to make this slide a little easier. Last month there was about 16 columns. But because last summer we had a lot of unusual activity in the amnesty program, We're trying to show you what this year's actual results were to comparable actual results last year after backing out the amnesty program, which was in full swing July and August of last year. So if you look at last year's actual without the one-time amnesty, we are slightly ahead in employee withholdings. The strength in net profits is showing. The insurance winds up being slightly below and the franchise fees ahead. So that's up 3.3%. Looking at budget, it came out 3.9%. So hence that variance between month-to-month budgets and last year's actual. Do I have questions on the August top four? Any questions for Mr. Mayor? I might be able to answer. We can see in none. Mr. Lane. I just had just one minor request, if it wouldn't be an inconvenience. It's on page four. Would it be possible that not only could we have the current year's numbers, but maybe put last year's numbers in, too, so that we could just see a longer trend line on that? To me, it would be a helpful bit of information, and you only have to put it on once and just keep adding the monthly data on there. That wouldn't be any convenience. I'd appreciate that. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Anybody else? Mr. Beard? Thank you, Chair. On this less amnesty page, Bill? Yes, sir. Is it valid, as it's insignificant, but I'm just curious, is it valid to even put insurance and franchise fees in that? Because they don't play in the amnesty, do they? They do not, but I was trying to show an actual to actual comparison, same time last year to same time this year. I was just saying that there were major adjustments in the actual last year for employee withholdings and net profits. No adjustment was needed to insurance and franchise to make them comparable. Well, as I say, it's not significant one way or the other. I just was curious about the thinking behind it. Mr. Stinnett. Thank you, Chair. I assume are we going to get the same report on expenses or are we just going to do revenue today? I've got the revenue information. We have expenses coming? I didn't see it in our packet. Not today. If I can maybe address that, Council Member. In terms of we're still closing fiscal year 11 because we want to give you, obviously, a perspective of how we finish the year. and told you we'd bring back that number of the ending fund balance. Council, Vice Mayor, you would ask about that last time. So we are still in that process. In fact, just had a meeting this morning to get an update on where. We're probably still a month out from even our first look at that year end. In terms of expenses, we've done some analysis on personnel to date, but we aren't bringing that to you today. but we can provide you with follow-up information. Well, and I appreciate your explanation. I understand the need to close out last year, but we're also at one quarter into this fiscal year, and I think based on the email that I saw in our packet that was sent to all the division directors asking for reduction in expenses, I think it would be nice for the council to see where we're spending money right now and where we're not, and I think that's why I'd like to see that report each budget and finance meeting. That's fine. And we've not closed out September yet, so we don't have a quarter's worth of expenses yet, but we will certainly get that to you once we have the first quarter closed out. Of course, the macro level, expenses versus revenue, I asked for this about four meetings ago, and I still haven't seen it in our PowerPoints. Revenues minus expenses equal current balance. I mean, one simple slide to show us where we're at. Are we ahead of this year? Are we behind this year? I know there's a lot that goes into that. You can dig down and make it a lot more complex than that, but I think just a bird's-eye view of seeing revenues, mines, expenses, what gives if we're up this year, behind this year, and kind of give a snapshot of those two big numbers that I'd like to ultimately see. But providing the detail of the expenses, I think we need to start seeing monthly. And we will do it. The next one will be the first quarter. Certainly we'll include that in there. And it gives you one of the things I was going to talk about, if I may, Council Members, if you were finished with your questions, was to talk about... I think we have a question from Vice Mayor Gorton before we get there. Sorry. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just since you brought up the audit, I was going to ask later, but I'll ask it now, about the audit. I know that the Lexington Center Corporation audit is finished. The board received it last meeting. And do you know if our other partner agencies, the airport and such, are complete? We can get you a status on those. Again, we have timetables set out so that we get their information to incorporate into our financials, and we do have a schedule for that. But I don't know right offhand which ones we've received and which ones we've not, but I can get you that. Okay. Do you know offhand what your schedule for those partners is? because I know we can't do ours, complete ours until theirs are complete, correct? That's correct. So do you know when? We provided that last time, I think, in the packet, but I'll have to, exactly, it's a scary. I think Mr. Lane would like to give some input on that. Right, I was just going to say, last year the airport board on which I serve as a board member, we were a little bit late because we had a lot of construction in process and there was a matter of auditing the work in progress and allocating the capital improvements from the pending amount to be paid. But we've been assured by our accounting people and our auditor that we're working aggressively to get a faster turnaround so there wouldn't be any delay this year. And so far, everything I've heard is very positive. I turned around to ask somebody to call our accounting director, and she just appeared. She's here. Hi, Marianne. Sorry. The dates of the external agencies, when are they due? They were due on September 15th, and we have received three. So we're in contact with the rest to get an estimate, and October 1st looks like the date for when we would have the other external agency reports. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Thank you. She is a runner, too. Any other council members? Go ahead, Commissioner, then. I was just going to draw your attention to the last slide that we included in the presentation. It really begins to address, and without the other half of the picture, Council Member Stenet, it is hard for you to judge where we are in terms of revenues and expenditures. But we did, as we looked at the trends of revenues, just wanted to say again that we still have lots of needs out there in the event that the trend continues, which we hope it would, but that we still have some challenges as we move forward. Obviously, the biggest one is realization of our budget assumptions, the budget you did pass. There were some assumptions about collective bargaining, about health insurance, about some efficiency savings, and we are working hard towards realizing those budget assumptions, but that is still a work in progress. In addition to that, and just to put in front of you that we still continue to have extensive capital needs, A goal would be to have 5% of general fund in a renewal and replacement program. That currently equates to about $13 million that we don't have any dollars sitting there going towards that effort. Obviously, we have a backlog of repairs and maintenance and then our long-term capital planning needs, which are endless, as you are well aware of. In addition to that, we have talked to you about making strides in our emergency reserves. Although we did pass a budget that adds to the Economic Contingency Fund based on an ordinance that you passed, we still want to stay on track with the goal of building that fund up, as well as with our health care being self-insured, having an appropriate reserve for health care, which we estimate to be about $3.5 million, which we don't have that kind of reserve today. And then obviously one larger issue that you, again, are well aware of is we still are continuing to have needs in addressing the long-term structural sustainability issue of the police and fire pension. That number there, some of you may have seen the slide that we presented to the legislative overview that the mayor had on pension and the whole Civic Center revitalization. And that adds the liability, the actuarial liability for pension payments as well as the OPEB, the medical liability, the actuarial amount of that, plus our debt that we've issued towards the pension fund. And that amount is a little over $536 million, which is when you put it in perspective is twice our annual general fund or, you know, it's close to that amount, so it's pretty staggering when you think of it in those terms. So we just wanted to set the stage again on that we have a lot of challenges still to address. We made a lot of progress in this budget, but we still have significant work to do working with you, you know, in order to accomplish some of these issues. And I can address the... We have some questions now. Okay. Mr. Stinnett. I appreciate you giving us this slide because it does kind of point out some glaring issues we'll have to deal with here in the coming months. But going forward, can we also have a one-pager showing us where we stand on the budget assumptions that were made by the administration going into the budget and adopted by counsel about the hoe in the health care, if we're on track, behind that target, collective bargaining, to name two specifically. So can we see a snapshot for on track, behind track, how much we've saved to date, type slide? I don't know if that's possible. If you're tracking it, I would hope that you all are, especially the health insurance. Yes, we are tracking it. We can provide as much information. Some of the things are ongoing and in flux, but we'll be able to provide you an update on where we find ourselves on those, certainly. And then the $13 million, tell us a little bit more about that concept and idea. Are you asking to establish a new fund that would be a maintenance fund? We're not suggesting today establishing a new fund. We're just saying that we have, if you just look, there are typically in government's best practice in terms of a dollar amount that's set aside or established for capital needs in terms of just renewal or replacement of capital items in your budget, and that's just a 5% target. That was just to give you sort of a benchmark. We haven't really thought through the mechanics and are not proposing a fund today. But again, just looking at you have the long-term capital planning, future, new things, et cetera, and then you have your replacement issues as well. Right. I just want to make it that that's a 5% number. We don't have $13 million today to go out there and fix. We probably have more than that. There's nothing today. There's also not the health care reserves, aren't there? Those are goals or benchmarks, if you will. And then I know we did a draft debt management plan. I know we issued no debt in this current budget except for the recommended pension bonds that we have yet to issue. What about that? Do we need to bring that off the shelf and adopt that at some point? Because we're waiting on a capital plan to go along with it, And I've not heard anyone speak about working together or forming a work group or task force or work on a capital plan. We do have the outline, if you will, of a capital plan, and we've been working with some of our larger capital agencies that have capital needs that spend the majority of capital in this government. So I think we have good bones to that program and are going to be able to bring you something soon. So I think in tandem with that, it would be good to bring back that. And how soon do you think the capital? If you can, if I can. January, February? Because you'd really need to do it before the budget. That's the problem. The goal would be the first of the year. Okay. Very good. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Mr. Lane. Just to go back to the emergency reserves or the economic contingency fund or the rainy day fund, whatever you want to call it. But we budgeted, as I recall, $50,000 a month to go into that account. We currently are still doing that, right? Yes, sir. And the other question I have is if we have any surplus from last fiscal year, will 25% of that surplus also go into the rainy day fund? Have you used all that money already for financing this current fiscal year? Well, we made some assumptions about the portion of that that would be included in this budget, so there may be additional money, but again, until we have that number, which we'll bring back to you. All right. And then the other question I had is our cash flows about a year ago were extremely tight, as I recall, and I know that we've been doing cash management and we deferred capital expenditures. Can you, I don't expect an exact number, but could you maybe sort of assess the cash position of the Irving County government at this time? I cannot do that standing here. We've been so knee-deep in some health insurance and other issues, but I can get a number for you. Well, I was just looking for something like good, better, or best, or not so good, fairly good, or we're strengthening. Do you have any kind of directional? I mean, do you think we're doing a lot better than this time last year, perhaps? I know you weren't here, Commissioner, but. Yeah. You're speaking about getting tight at this time of the year prior to property taxes coming in. Are you talking about how close in terms of. Yeah, we have cash, you know, we have money in the bank, and we're not having to really hustle to make our payments, or do we have surplus cash at this time that we can work with? I mean, I think we're not hustling to find money at this point, but I really would feel more comfortable getting back with you on that. Okay, thank you. Any other questions for the commissioner? If not, I think we'll move on to the next item. which is the administration's fiscal year 12 budget reduction exercise. Did you want me to address that? Yeah, if you would, please. Sure. I mentioned this last meeting that we were sending out a request to agencies as a tool to use in the event that we would need to make any reductions. And I think Paul may have included an email that I sent to him as to the why we were going through this process. And we did ask for preliminary draft plans for reductions in the event we would need to make reductions during this year. We did ask for two different levels, a 5% reduction and a 10% reduction, but we considered this a proactive tool. It is pretty standard in many governments to include this in your budget process. We sort of included it afterwards, but would want to include that moving forward. In contrast to last year, which is my only context for this government that can put it in, last year we needed reduction plans for immediate implementation. That is not the case this year. We want to be prepared in the event that we do have to make reductions. We are still getting those responses in. We did ask for reduction plans for all the funds, not just general fund, but every fund that an agency had, what they would do if they had to make reductions in any of the funds. So we're still gathering that information, certainly still going through the initial information for clarifications to potentially go back to agencies to ask them for follow-up, just so that we're clear. I think also included in that is the actual technical email that went to folks with the attachments, so how they would fill out the reduction plan. In addition to that, we ask that the director sign off on that and that the commissioner sign off on those responses as well. I think we have a couple questions. Vice Mayor Gordon. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, I wanted to just relate the conversation I had with Ryan Barrow about this, because council was actually not asked to reduce their budget. You'll notice we weren't on the email. So Ryan and I had, I called him immediately when someone sent us this email, and he said, and I don't know if you want to elaborate, but he did say that right now they weren't asking council for a proposal, but you will notice that the council is on the list. So maybe you can kind of update us as to what you're thinking about in terms of council. I know that we've asked the citizen advocate to look at cuts in her office, and we would be prepared, I think, to do the same if asked. So can you just kind of update us about what you're thinking about the council? I can tell you the list. I had asked Ryan to put together a list just for a guide for folks on the 5% and 10%. So that's everything listed. So that was a part of what went with the email. We did, again, the thought was the operating agencies that we would go through and ask them to prepare certainly will take a proposed reduction plan from the council. But we thought if we got to that point that we'd be working with you anyway in terms of reductions. And I didn't mean to monopolize, but Ryan may have some additional thoughts I know you guys conversed about this. And it's important for Council to understand that because we weren't asked right now to propose anything. So, no, that gives me what I think I needed to hear. And if you do feel that we need to propose something, I know that you'll express that to us. and so that was all. I didn't know if Ryan wanted to add anything or not. Yeah. Okay, thank you. Mr. Stinnett. Speaking of, you said you've been asked to reduce the urban services funds as well and their operating costs. Is there any update on the Streetlight Fund and its solvency? Have we, again, looking at that issue? Well, we've been looking at it quite extensively. There isn't, from our perspective, an update yet. We laid out to you kind of our plan looking at the expense side, et cetera, the allocations. But right now I know the streetlights are that issue. We don't have any internal expenses. We outsource all that maintenance, correct? So there wouldn't be reductions in staff or anything having to do with streetlight fund that it currently pays for. There is some personnel and operating in terms of indirect, but that's applied as a part of that fund. In other words, certain people are supported by that fund directly, and there are some indirect charges. Who would be supported by the fund if we contract all the maintenance? I'm not saying specifically street lights. I was talking about the fund in general. The Urban Services Fund itself? Yes, sir. Because the last presentation we got on that fund, it was already in the hoe on two of the three. So if we're going to further ask for reductions, aren't we just going to keep digging our hoe deeper? Well, again, planning purposes, you know, if we can find reductions within the fund and they can be used for streetlight. I mean, there are all kinds of opportunities there. As Ryan mentioned, there are some engineering staff that are charged to the urban service district fund as it relates to street lights. When will we get an update on the status of that fund? Well, I know the Commissioner Taylor has been working on some of that list, that plan. Part of it was hers to look at, and then we were going to get back together as a group. Because believe me, July comes around very quickly when we go on summer break and we return in August and we have to approve the funds for the next year. So if we don't have a plan between now and then to correct this fund going forward, we're going to be in a world of trouble with our streetlights and our community and other funds within the Urban Services Fund. So I would urge the urgency, so to speak, for lack of a better word, to get it done. We have a list of priorities on a sheet posted in financing. It's not like we can go back and change property tax. Right. That's one of them. That's at the top two or three, four issues. Okay. Thank you. Ms. Lawless. On the sheet, it's darkened at the bottom, but like constitutionals and partner agencies, I'm not sure why those lines are darkened, but for instance partner agencies, with many of those, haven't we signed a yearly contract? There are agreements, but there's also language within those agreements. But again, we didn't ask. We asked our internal operating agencies. Okay, so they haven't been. This is a list of the total. That's why they're darkened. Okay, thank you. Mr. Beard. Thank you, Chair. I'm not real sure who can answer this question. Maybe Paul. The $5,015 that we had committed out of our individual centers, we did that again, did we not? And that's, I think, the third year we've done it. You all need to be aware that if, in fact, there are $75,000 sitting out there that we're rat-holing for an emergency, I guess is as good a term as any. I was treated similarly to last year's budget. I think Brian wants to give some input. Well, Ryan and I have had a conversation about this, and it's my understanding, and you'll correct me if I'm wrong, it's out of the budget. It's gone. It's already taken out. It's been taken out of the East Center? Yes. Yes, in the new budget, when the new budget came out. I mean, we did that ourselves. Yes. Yeah. It's gone. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Mr. Lane. The current economic conditions around the world and the United States are not that good. And, you know, looking at these numbers about reducing expenses, do you feel that maybe we would be smart if we could go ahead and did some cuts now because once we see our revenues have declined, that's going to be 30 to 60 days after we've actually found that out because there's sort of a lag in getting the information. If we went ahead and made some cuts, and if they were technically unnecessary because our revenue and our budget remained at the level we forecast, then we'd be okay. but I believe we forecast a $6 or $7 million increase in revenue over the previous year. Because I'd hate for us to come towards the end of the year, and then we've got to make huge cuts and not have time to really think about it enough. Well, I guess that's why we've been proactive and asked for these plans, so that we won't have to hurry up and rush, that we'll have some good indications of where the agencies are thinking, if there were reductions where we would need to go, as well as monthly meetings with the agencies that will help us be more proactive and become aware of an issue earlier rather than later. I'm just thinking from a fiscally conservative and responsible approach, maybe making some cuts pretty soon might not be a bad idea. And I'm not trying to be negative, but we're working with the forecast of increased revenue, and if that revenue increase doesn't come in or it's not as much as we want it to be, then we'll have to make a bigger, deeper, more serious cut, whereas if we went ahead and did it earlier, maybe we only cut it 4 percent or 3.75. That cut would be enough to cushion us all the way through the end of the fiscal year. I think two months' worth of data, again, as we move a few more months into the year, that conversation becomes. Okay. In other words, you're saying after we get the data in for like September and October, maybe we would be looking at that. All right. Okay. Thank you very much. Any other questions from council members? The final item on the agenda is items in the referred to the committee, and we asked council members to send to either Mr. Schoeniger or myself about brainstorming ideas, and we received one from the vice mayor, and I'll let her talk about doing a potential workshop. Vice mayor? Yes, Commissioner. Sorry to interrupt, but one of the things I thought might be helpful is if we, before you actually start to put together the budget, we could have a joint workshop where we all sit down together and hear analysis of the situation. I'm talking about the full council. and that we maybe exchange ideas going forward so that we can hear what you're thinking, you can hear what we're thinking. We've talked about this before, getting something started a little earlier. And I know that there's a lot on your plates, although I think it might be helpful if we could begin early. And you'd also, I think, in your email had said include the mayor along with this process. And we've done a workshop, and we did it over in the other building, the Phoenix, and we had a very large group. I think I would like to keep this as a smaller group with the council and the administration and the mayor. I think it would be more helpful. That's what I was thinking is a small group, council members, the mayor, administration. not outside folks because this would be more what I thought was it would be more of a give and take not a presentation but a give and take and you know where are we where do we think we're going that sort of thing so I don't know if it's possible to get that together I was thinking before we go on our break in December so try to end up before November or Well, I think the commissioner's input would be really important because that's going to require all of us. And I guess maybe in terms of information that you would be expecting us to provide then, I guess I'm trying to think of in terms of what would be valuable information in terms of planning for the next year that's early. We have a pretty compressed, I'm speaking from the administration side, pretty compressed time frame now getting the information back from agencies, getting up-to-date revenue estimates, et cetera. So I just want to, you know, if you have an expectation, I want to make sure we're able to write what type of information. You know, we'll be finishing our audits. We'll be finishing the prior year around that time. Well, and it could even be in January when we come back. I mean, I don't think there's anything magical about before we go on break as opposed to when we come back. I think just looking at last year and kind of analyzing last year, and, of course, you all were all brand new, but if we could have a conversation earlier on with some updates, expectations with the entire council. I know that's rather general, but council members can help fill in the blanks. Well, we've had quite a few that have signed in that have some ideas or suggestions or questions. Mr. Lane? One of the ideas I was thinking is perhaps we could get our revenue forecasting group that helped us estimate the revenues for this fiscal year, maybe have them go back and reassess their information, see if they feel that we need to make an adjustment in revenue for the balance of the year, and also maybe to forecast for fiscal year 13, so we'd have that number a little bit in advance too. We are still working. I think you all know you graciously approved money for us to work with the University of Kentucky. We're working through on that revenue estimating model now, but that is underway. So, again, I don't want to overpromise in terms of we want to get through that process so that we'll have a model in place that will help us moving forward. But, I mean, we certainly can get Dr. Trotsky involved. We're still the second lowest unemployment area in the state, so we're doing very well comparatively speaking, but our unemployment is up over 7%, which is pretty high for our community. And, you know, if it continues to edge up or stay about the same, will have an impact on future revenues. I certainly think some overall economic indicator kinds of information, we can get that kind of updates. Why don't you talk to Dr. Trosky and tell him we need this information urgently. Thank you. Dr. Cain. Thank you, Chair. I have a couple of suggestions. First of all, I think it would be useful to do it sooner rather than later. And if it's also useful, maybe do it again later. So before the break and then maybe after the break. I agree with the sentiment that has been expressed about having it be a small group that is council and key people from the administration. In terms of the agenda, I think it would be useful to have that jointly constructed. I think there needs to be more conversation between the mayor's office and council about what we would like to see on there, what you can and cannot produce, and how we want to structure that. I also want to reiterate something I said earlier when we were talking about this, and I'm an advocate of fuzzy information with caveats rather than no information. So I'd rather hear, you know, this isn't in stone, but this is what it looks like. here's why we can't be more certain about that, that's helpful to me anyway. So I think there's ways to put this together in a way that will really be a meaningful exchange of information between the council and the administration. Thank you. Mr. Stinnett. Thank you, Chair. You know, just to kind of help give additional feedback on the lines that Dr. K was speaking about, this is a very easy task. This is about having a conversation about policy. I don't necessarily want to get into the revenue numbers, and you don't have to get that detailed. This is about, if there's opportunities you see in the budget, as Commissioner Finance, as our directors see out here, share those with us and get our feedback prior to implementing those in a budget. I'll give you, for instance, last year, if you see there's savings with not having an internal security guard force, tell us that ahead of time rather than showing up on budget day and saying, hey, we're just going to cut them and we'll get you the numbers. Those are the kind of conversations you have to have before the budget to be effective at budget time. So if there's plans, if there's things we all need to give input on, we did this about five years ago the last time we did as a group with the mayor and the council in Brainstorm about things that are working, things that are on the horizon. Those are all good conversations to have. So that's what I would work on is policy things coming up. How do we feel about certain things? And we can ask the same about the administration. What are the plans to do X, Y, Z? And those are good, good conversations to have prior to a budget being put in our lap to be able to balance. Mr. Beard. Thank you, Chair. I just wanted to reinforce what I felt about Council Member Kaye's comments. I would agree with him wholeheartedly. I think third floor of Phoenix Building doesn't exactly turn me on as far as the utility of it, I guess. We have other places that we can try. We did this once before. Tates Creek Golf Course has a large central building that could handle us. And there are other places that would be available to us that are free, except for the one that I would vote for, which would be Gulf Shores, Alabama, for about three or four days, but at best probably not in the cards. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. I think if we could have the Vice Mayor, myself, and the administration, if we could try to come up with a time that worked for all of us would be, I think as shown from the council members, that's something that would be worthwhile. With that, Mr. Schoeniger, if you would look at the items that are in committee and where we stand with those. Thank you, Council Member. The first item is the Board of Architecture Review fee structure that was put in the committee by the General Government Link in conversations with the Director of Historic Preservation, a little bit of work that I've done. I think this will be ready to the November meeting, if that satisfies. The catering definition, I'm going to have to defer to, well, I thought Council Member Crosby was here. I don't know when she wants that or what the time frame is for that item, so I'll get back to you about that. The Economic Continency Ordinance put in by Council Member Farmer, I believe if I understood that you thought Council Member Farmer would be ready for that. We had a brief discussion before and he thought it would be ready next month. The solid waste information, or waste management information, there has been a task force formed and it's met one time, the Waste Management Task Force. I have it down here. I'm sorry, Vice Mayor, I have it down here. The Solid Waste Task Force. You've repeatedly reminded me of my error, so it's the Waste Management Task Force. And I think they're going to address the three or four issues that are listed here. And the last three items, the local vendor preference, the minority women business recruitment issue, and then the purchasing procurement and professional services selection process. I'll try to say that three times fast. We're all referred to the procurement task force, and I believe you folks are wrapping up those. And we're hopefully going to be presenting that next month. And I think I'm finished then with that. Okay. Is there any items that come before the committee? I will entertain. Oh, Mr. Lane. When do you think the issue about local vendor preference will be coming before the committee? Do you have a date on that? Well, that is underneath of the procurement task force, so we will be coming out with the recommendations, Hopefully, if we can get back from the state auditor and present that next meeting. Now, the three items that are in here were kind of handled very generally in the task force because that really wasn't the charge of it. So we're going to have to go from, once we give the report, how we want to attack those because they were answered but not in a specific manner with those more in a general because that's really not what the task force was told to do. Okay. All right, I just wanted to set a timeline, so maybe when you know something, give us a note on that. Thank you. Will do. Anything else? I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. We have a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. As opposed, we are adjourned. Thank you.