We are here to convene the first meeting of the new session for the Planning and Public Works Committee. I welcome all of you, and in particular, I welcome some of our new Councilmembers, Councilmember Clark and Councilmember Massadi, to our Planning and Public Works Committee. Our first item of business will be to elect a chair, and then I'll turn the meeting over to the chair to appoint a vice chair and to conduct the rest of the meeting. So if you'll use your login, please, if you wish to make nominations, we'll take any nominations first, and then we'll vote on them all. Council Member Ellinger. Thank you, Vice Mayor. I'd like to nominate Bill Farmer. Okay, Councilmember Ellinger has moved and Councilmember Beard has seconded to nominate Councilmember Farmer as chair to put your name on the list. Thank you. Yes, thank you. Is there any discussion? All those in favor of placing his name in the queue, say aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Are there other nominations for chair? Seeing none, I would ask that a motion come forward to approve Councilmember Farmer as chair of planning. Councilmember K moves. Is there a second? Council Member Henson seconds to elect. This motion is to elect Council Member Farmer as chair of Planning Committee, Planning and Public Works. Any discussion? All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? All right. That motion carries. Congratulations, Council Member Farmer. Do you yet have a vice chair you'd like to appoint, or will that be during the next week? I was going to ask a returning council member and someone with whom I was in the same pledge class several years ago, Jennifer Mazzotti, to be my vice chair, if she would so. I agree. Thank you, ma'am. Okay. An honor to serve with you again. So Council Member Farmer is the chair and Council Member Mazzotti is the vice chair. Thank you both for serving. Thank you, ma'am. Then we'll just take up the agenda as laid out for us for the January 15th meeting. First is the approval or conversation and approval for the November 20th summary, which is one that we had some conversation about, and an addendum was added in that kind of gave clarity to the discussion. and that was actually paper clipped to the sheet or to our committee packet. So I wanted to see if there's any additions, corrections, or discussion about the November 20th summary. Seeing none, I ask for a motion. Second. Motion by Council Member Ellinger, seconded by the Vice Mayor. Any discussion? All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, like, sign. motion carries. Then new to this packet would be the December set of minutes, which actually are on the docket to be approved today at work session, so I'm glad we're taking this up now. And this is where we talked about kind of the nuts and bolts of the repaving program, about utility poles in the right of way, and items in the committee. There There was one motion to remove one item from the committee group of war because there's really no other motions in there. I would ask for a motion for approval of these as they are submitted so far. Motion by the Vice Mayor, seconded by Council Member Ellinger. Under discussion, any questions or additions? Then all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed, like, sign. Motion carries. Then we move on to item number four on our agenda, which is exploring the use of alternative fuel resources for Fayette County. This is something that Commissioner Hamilton and John Sheet is here, but I just wanted to draw to you all's attention that the last page of the addendum was an item that the Planning Commission had taken up on our behalf and approved, which was the alternative text draft that would give someone the opportunity to locate a compressed natural gas or a liquefied petroleum refueling station. So the stage is properly set in our county to take advantage of any opportunities. And Shamsheed, welcome. Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity and good afternoon. We've been asked to provide an update, an overview per se, on the latest development in us pursuing the use of alternative fuel throughout our fleet. This has been a topic of discussions and consideration for the past three and a half years, at least as far as I know, as long as I've been here. And so throughout the process, we've been trying to identify technologies as well as a fueling option that would be what we call equipment and task-specific, things that we think we're going to be able to get the biggest bang for the buck per se. After the review, we've identified CNG as a viable option that would provide us potential savings both in terms of fuel cost as well as the potential savings in repair and maintenance. Just to give you an overview, right under 80% of the entire fleet budget, it's fuel expenses. And that's almost right under about $6 million. And a lot of that's spent on heavy equipment that utilizes biodiesel. and that's our biggest expenditure on our heavy fleet, the solid waste vehicles, compactors, and then also we've got streets and roads with their heavy equipment. And then on the light side, obviously, we've got the police vehicles and public safety that utilizes quite a bit of that budget there. In determining which one of these sectors we were going to target, we looked at a few usage and decided at this point, specifically for CNG application, the heavy fleet was the most applicable one to be able to look, pursue, and analyze. And after when we looked at the heavy side, we decided that the solid waste group with the compactors are probably what we call the lower hanging fruit. You talk about vehicles that average 2.1 to about 2.5 miles a gallon and quite a bit of fuel usage. then the idea was what can be done in terms of reduction in cost while we sustain and even improve the quality of services. And so that was one of the main items that we had in mind while trying to identify these fueling options. One of the things about natural gas, specifically CNG, that we looked at last two years, on average, per what they call a diesel equivalent gallon, the CNG has continuously been cheaper on average of $1 to $2 per gallon. Now, the wide variation is primarily based on the geographical location, who's doing the fueling, who owns the fueling stations, overhead costs, and so forth. But we find it to be a whole lot less volatile than your biodiesel and your regular fuel. The other also advantage to utilizing CNG was the potential reduction in our greenhouse emissions, specifically since our heavier equipment are, lack of better word, the biggest violators when it comes to those kind of environmental impacts. The third item you see up there is one of the main reasons we find a CNG to be much more stable in terms of availability and also in terms of cost. As you can see, the majority of it is produced in North America. So that reduces the reliance on what might be happening outside the North American region. The formula you see on the bottom, that's just pretty much specific asset. Cheaper fuel, based on the track record we've seen in comparison between CNG and diesel. and then the lower cost associated with using the maintenance when you use the CNG. Now, what percentage? We're still kind of working on that one. One thing that's certain is that you will see reduction in your regular maintenance of these vehicles. The numbers right now probably anywhere from 2% to 3%, but I'm thinking with the technology as we move forward, development of the newer engines, I think we're even going to see that number increase. What we wanted to do is just give you an overview, just a brief graphical presentation of a what-if analysis. We looked at the numbers in fiscal year 2012 that ended in June of 2012. From that point on, taking a look at what we anticipate the miles traveled would be, estimated amount of fuel that's going to be utilized, we wanted to give you all at least a view of how these numbers were going to shape up. What you see in here is what we anticipate, we estimate the cost of fuel would be. The blue one on top obviously shows you if we just replace vehicles with diesel, no non-CNG. And then what we did was we created another graph based on what if we replaced the heavy side on the waste management at a rate of a 10 vehicle per year for 10 years. And the 10 years, the reason we use that is a typical life cycle on your compactors that a lot of municipalities and industry use. So as you can see, you're looking at probably around anywhere from $800,000 to $850,000 is the estimated savings. And as I said, this is just an estimation and prediction. There's a lot of things that can impact it. The cost of the fuel, we looked at what the national average has been and what the predictions are for the next five years to ten years. We've done some regression analysis just to try to be able to at least get some trend lines going on this one. So it's going to at least give you an idea of what we think implementing CNG technology just for the 100 compactors at the waste management over the period of 10 years will result in. As I mentioned, you're going to see some, we anticipate seeing some savings also on the maintenance side. This will show you what we call the O&M cost. O&M cost primarily has the cost of fuel plus what the cost will be for maintenance and repair of the vehicles. So that's another probably about $100,000 is what we anticipate, $100,000 to $120,000 difference there. Now, closing, we're looking at some challenges out here as well as opportunities. Obviously, there are four areas that we are concentrating on. Number one is the vehicles themselves. Availability of the funding is going to be crucial in being able to replace the current units with CNG. We looked at the conversion option and everyone we talked to, we found it not to be the best course of action to take. We've talked to a few of our peers out there who've done this. everyone highly advising that we just purchase CNG vehicles that have been designed and manufactured for that purpose. Infrastructure in terms of fueling station out there has also been a challenge. This area is still new to this technology. We've been in conversations and discussions with potential private developers who are interested in providing fueling stations. While we're doing that, we also have been looking into pros and cons associated with us getting into a contract directly with an outfit out there that seeing what the cost would be for them to provide a turnkey operation providing us the fuel. We are in the process of finalizing an RFP that's going to go out within the next couple of weeks for that purpose. I'm confident we're going to find two or three pretty good respondents that are going to come in, give us at least an opportunity to take a look at that option, see what might be the cost associated with it. We're going to be required to have some facility modification done. Because we're not completely changing all the 100 units at the same time, We are going to be able to phase this in. We have already identified a couple of bays in our heavy site for conversion. It is not very cost prohibitive, but obviously there are some costs associated with it. Partnership opportunities, as always, we look to our peers in this area, as well as Louisville and Cincinnati, and seeing what they're doing. As a matter of fact, we've been having discussions with Lex Tran in regard to their initiatives, and this seems to be both of us are arriving at the same point that CNG makes a whole lot of sense in many ways. And so we had a discussion with them last week, and I think we have found some good opportunities to provide support to each other and be able to move this thing forward. In a nutshell, that's the update we have. I'll be glad to have any questions you might have. Excellent update. I appreciate that very much, especially the outreach to Lex Strand. I think that's a great opportunity for our entire community. Council members first, we're going to go with Peggy Henson. Council member. Thank you, Chair. John Sheed, there's one question that I had as far as the mileage on the vehicles. The gas, the fuel is cheaper by 50% at least, right, or 100? Just to give you an idea on the biodiesel that we use on those compactors, we've been averaging about $3.38 per gallon average. During the same period, we're looking at $1.75 to maybe about $1.90 for equivalent gallon if we were using the CNG. And what kind of mileage would the vehicles get the same? The mileage and the graph that I showed you incorporate some of these changes. CNG technology averages about 10% less efficiency in terms of mileage compared to your typical diesel or biodiesel. So when we're doing the estimation, we make for that. So whatever, for example, if you've got X number of gallons that you use for your biodiesel, We actually have been able to increase that by 15% to make up for the loss of efficiency. Still makes a whole lot of sense in terms of finances. And to convert the vehicles, you don't know what the cost would be? We've looked at it. They're all over the place. Some conversion packages have been around longer than others. It's sort of a moving target at this point. But the rule of thumb on the conversions, we're looking at probably anywhere from 35% to 50% reduction in efficiency. And really, to be honest with you, we're looking at some vehicles that are going to be four or five years old, and putting any kind of conversion on them, you're only going to be able to utilize them for another four or five years. We felt like just going in with the brand new units is probably going to be a whole lot better option. Thank you. Sure. Thank you, ma'am, very much. Next up is Council Member Lawless. Council Member. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, ma'am. Are you just at this time looking at the waste management? That is correct. Okay. We've divided the process into three different sections. The first one is the compactors with the solid waste. The next group that we are going to take a very close look at would be the heavy equipment with the streets and roads. The last group is going to be the light option. At this point, with the exception of a few pickup trucks, primarily Ford being F-150, 250, and 350s, really there are not that many options with CNG for the lighter vehicles. So those we're looking at right now, we utilize the hybrid or electrical vehicles as our first option. We'll be considered replacement. But that's pretty much the phase in that we're looking at. We've had a conversation about this before, about converting some of the cars and smaller pickup trucks, et cetera, to using vegetable oil that is free and very efficient and works well, and it's not much to convert them. And it also takes that grease that restaurants use and keeps it from being dumped somewhere that isn't good for the environment. Have you all looked into that? Yes. After the last discussion we had last year, We reached out to the Agriculture Department who is responsible for any kind of fuel quality and so forth. And that option is not considered a viable one for any kind of vehicles out here. As a matter of fact, there was going to be some issues in regard to warranties on units that were under warranty. So we at that point did not feel like that was an option we wanted to pursue any further. They require a certain percentage of fuel value to exhaust and so forth, and the used cooking oil did not meet those minimum requirements. Now, if somebody out there... They certainly have been successful in their places. Yeah, we've been looking at it on an individual basis, you know, private vehicles and so forth. We are aware that a few out there are doing it. We could not locate any municipalities or any state vehicles that have looked at it and have decided to go to that direction. And certainly I know that there's a big issue with the environmental issues with the diesel fuel and the carbon footprint, but I also know that there is a huge issue also and controversial issue with fracking, which is the predominant method of extracting the gas. And so I was told when I asked somebody, one of the people that sells the compressed natural gas, that it wasn't done here in our state. But I think we all know we're... So I think we support us doing it, but I think we also need to think about the larger consequences to our environment. I agree. Best of my knowledge, darling, no alternative or even traditional fueling option available out there that does not have one way or the other a con associated with it in regard to environmental issues. At this point, I'm going to come to picking the lesser of two evils and try to improve on the technology. And I agree. I've heard the same thing about the fracking and some of the issues associated with it. I've even looked at some solar deal at this point. solar energy is not even close to where it needs to be. We're doing a very in-depth analysis of the hybrids that we've been having for the past quite a few years. And, in fact, we've still got probably the largest hybrid fleet in the state, comparing those versus just the high-efficiency newer models and how they will compete. So this is an issue that you always have to just keep on examining and looking at the new technology and identify one that you feel are going to give you the best results. Well, I do appreciate your global and local work and your initiative on this. So thank you so much. Thank you, ma'am. Council Member Kaye. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, John Sheet, for this. My questions really have to do with potential implementation. So, you know, one of the factors is replacement costs and et cetera. Can you talk a little bit about what the normal life cycle of these vehicles is, when they would have to be replaced anyway? Is there a threshold number of vehicles before it's justified to invest in infrastructure that would service them, that kind of thing? Typical in industry, and I'm just averaging because there's a little bit of a deviation between private industry and municipalities. Some of those differences obviously have been reduced during the past few years because of the financial issues that everybody's been dealing with. But typically 10-year, 100,000 miles have been the rule of thumb. To be honest with you, I think it used to be a good indicator. I don't subscribe to it because there are many other factors that goes into a vehicle beside the age as well as the mileage. So we're developing an in-house evaluation model, which we're almost close to finish, which will take into consideration the age as well as the mileage, but also, in my opinion, other conditions such as condition assessment, what kind of conditions the vehicle is in when you're doing your annual and semi-annual inspection under carriage structurally, the engine, looking at what the average costs have been in terms of maintaining these vehicles. So those are the things that we are trying to bring all in one location where we be able to really have a more objective way of evaluating these vehicles. But again, the short answer would be 10 years, 100,000 miles on your compactors have been the average. And to follow up, have you looked at any scenario, any likely scenario for replacement? And I guess I'm presuming if you needed to have 15 new vehicles in order to justify the infrastructure, that you could trade in old vehicles? Or is there a market for old vehicles if you wanted to buy new vehicles that had the natural gas ability? That's another option we're looking at. Also, there are a couple of outfits out there that have been around for about a couple of years now where they actually will take your current units. Obviously, they have to still have a pretty decent salvage value or at least about three to five-year age, and they can actually apply that as a credit and provide you an opportunity to lease CNG-powered equipment and so forth. We're looking into those. My issue is at this point the funding portion of it is an issue because if I'm going to be leasing a vehicle or a fleet of vehicles, legally we are obligated to meet that financial obligation every year. It's going to impact our operating funds. So it's going to be impacting other operations when you're going to come across some years where the funding is reduced overall. Therefore, you're going to have to make other compromises in other operational areas, which we might not have to do if we just do an outright purchase. We also look at outright selling our vehicles. We do all the time utilizing the government side for the auctions. and we've had a pretty decent experience with them. The problem is, especially with the compactors, it's a Feastor family. We've had units that we put out there, and we have a reserve, and actually we sell it a whole lot more than reserve. We've had units out there we thought it was going to really get moving fairly quickly, and we had to actually lure the reserve to sell them. So it's not what I call a stable market, but that's definitely always an option we look at. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Vice Chair Mazzotti. Thank you, Chair Farmer. Hello, John Sheed. I know that you're talking today about compressed natural gas. What about, have you looked at electric at all, or has that been a previous presentation that maybe you've done in the past? Compressed natural gas primarily is going to be dealing with heavy fleet. Electric has always been an option with us on the light one. As a matter of fact, we just purchased our first fully electric vehicle that Parks and Recreation is going to use. We were successful at applying and getting a grant to make up the cost difference between a regular vehicle and an electrical one. The idea is, before we really get into the electric vehicle business, we want to make sure that we have had a chance and opportunity to look at it over the period of a year at least, look at pros and cons, any kind of specialty requirements in terms of maintenance, that's going to be required because obviously you're going to have to have some specialty equipment as well as training in order to meet the demand. I see it being a viable option as we move forward with our light vehicles. Thank you. Sure. Good questions all. Any others? Yes, you're welcome, Councilor. I'm a little confused about the process of buying new vehicles. Are we thinking that we're not going to convert the older vehicles? We're going to wait to buy new vehicles? That is correct. And if so, is there enough in the budget that will allow us to buy enough new vehicles? At this point, based on the funding that we have available for the current fiscal year, we've been in discussions with Solid Waste, Steve Feast, and his group, we probably have enough to purchase five, potentially six vehicles, which would be a good start, as it might be the first in this market in here. So the short answer is yes. For the current fiscal year, we'd be able to at least get that five or six units. Thank you. Sure. Housewoman Clark, thank you, sir. Commissioner Hamilton, did you have a... Yes, ma'am. I just wanted to give you a brief update on our conversation with LexTram. I found this very interesting, and it sort of goes back to your question. Council Member Kaye, there's sort of a sweet spot here of when you can buy these vehicles and when you can get them fueled. It's that chicken and egg problem. We had a very good conversation with LexTram because we felt, and we knew you would agree, that we need to be very careful that we're not doing one thing, and then here comes LexTran doing the other, and all of a sudden we've got two big fueling stations. Right. And so we talked to them. Their goal is to go all compressed natural gas in all their vehicles, and they were going to their board last week to talk about this. They would then be looking at about two or three years as they get their new property, and they would go out on an RFP for their fueling station. They would get somebody to provide their fueling station. It probably, in the long run, would be better if we went along on their contract and got our fuel from there, from them. Now, the question is, if we are ahead of them, how do we do this? I mean, you know, they're buying property and they're doing all this. So what we're looking at is finding that sweet spot, that five vehicles we need, try to go out on an RFP for somebody that can do our fueling on a very short-term basis. We don't want to enter into a contract that's long-term and tie ourselves in when there's LexTran over there. So that was our conversation, and we're staying very close to them so that we don't get ourselves out of kilter here time-wise. It's a good foundation. It's a good way for us to stay. So I just want to share that with you all to let you know what we were doing. Thank you. I had just a couple more myself. Well, from your presentation, I really hadn't taken into account that the operation and maintenance costs would go down. That's an additional savings that wasn't part of the conversation in my mind, so I think that's wonderful. And then just from a very subtle quality of life standpoint, these vehicles will be very quiet. and a neighborhood street early in the morning will be far different than it is right now in terms of a hustling diesel thing rolling up through there. We get these things turned to natural gas and get new brake pads, we're going to be in great shape. So in terms of implementation, do you think that in the 2014 budget, during that time frame, we would have five or six vehicles? Is that what your thought process is? The idea is with the current funding that we have to go ahead and place an order fairly soon because the lead time on these vehicles are typically about 10 months, sometimes 12 months, because you're dealing with two different manufacturers. One is you have to purchase the chassis with the manufacturer. Then it's going to be shipped to the body manufacturer, and they have to manufacture the body and attach it and bring it here, and then after that we usually take about two weeks or so before we check everything, make sure the units have been delivered or meet their specifications and do their licensing and tag and so forth. So the idea is to go ahead and place the order prior to the end of the current fiscal year. Really? With the idea that hopefully we can have those in early next year. Okay. And that's going to work hand-in-hand with the timeline we have for a potential fueling station for the meantime. So because what we're looking at is maybe skid-mounted fueling stations. They seem to be very popular right now because a lot of other groups like ours that are looking at it, they're also not getting into it all of a sudden with 50, 60 vehicles. Everybody's just kind of dipping their toe in the water, per se. So this technology was developed for if you've got five units or ten units or 15, it will suffice. It will provide that. As the commissioner mentioned, we're going to be looking at a RFP that's going to support us for the next 24 months to 36 months. And by then, hopefully, we can rely on either the LexTran or I can guarantee there would be other opportunities with other chains that we're probably going to be interested in, too. The paradigm will shift. Absolutely. I appreciate the depth of your research and the background work that's gone on here. And I think you can tell from the questions here, and I know at the full council level, you have our support for this. This makes Lexington better, and that's what we're all about. So we look forward to helping you in your partnering process as you would need and just with your ongoing conversations with LexTrans. So I appreciate all of y'all's expertise here today very much. Thank you very much. All right. Last up on the agenda is... I have a few more questions. I'm so sorry, Council Member. Excuse me, I didn't look down. Yes, ma'am. That's okay. I had a couple more questions for discussion. Yes, certainly. Okay. John Sheed, you mentioned, I mean, is it possible that private industry could also start going in this direction to where then the need for the stations would increase? Absolutely. Every indication is that we've been looking and discussions with municipalities as well as some private companies that are very interested. And the state really, from what I've heard, the state's really getting into pushing forward, creating those fueling stations. Obviously, the primary goal would be at the interstates and so forth. But I would say within the next three to five years, you'll see a big upsurge in terms of the fueling stations. Technology is evolving also, so they're going to be a whole lot less complicated. Hopefully the costs would be reduced on what it costs to put a CNG fueling station together. But, yeah, I don't see this market going anywhere but up. Are our current maintenance mechanics, do they have the skills you think? They're all ASC certified. This is obviously going to be something new for them. Part of that specification, we're putting together for the manufacturer of the chassis, especially, and to some extent with the body. It's going to include, at no charge to the city, providing the training that's needed. That's great. Now, and last, is there any, like as far as if one of these vehicles were involved in a collision, are they any more dangerous than? And that was the first thing we looked at two or three years ago, and the technology has even improved quite a bit. I've been told by quite a few people in the industry that, as a matter of fact, these vehicles are less susceptible to explosions and so forth than it is with your typical regular fuel. So we have not seen anything in terms of cons associated with safety and collusion and so forth. The tanks have come a long way. The storage tanks on these got a cage design around it that, to be honest, which is almost indestructible. Location for me got three different options. So I'm confident you're not going to see any major issues with those units. Thank you very much. Excellent questions. I appreciate that. I think subtle to that, too, is this fuel is lighter than air. So if there is a breach, it will evaporate and go away, rather than some gases will collect along the ground. Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. All right, anything else on this issue? Thank you all. The last item is to review the items that have been referred to committee, which is on page 18 of the packet. And at our last meeting in December, we vetted through each one of these and kind of found them worthy of our continuing efforts and focus. I was just going to ask if any of you, especially newer council members, had any questions about the items that have been placed into the committee. And if there are any, I'll be glad between myself or staff or others to give you some backgrounds on them. But generally we try to work things out so that we've got a couple or three of these to bring forward each month, depending on where we are in terms of background and work. And I see that the vice mayor is first up. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, ma'am. I wanted just to ask about perhaps you remember or some others remember, are we waiting on the issue of Fayette County Public Schools and SALT? I see Mr. Wente's here. Are we waiting for that report on who the requesters are for SALT and an update on that? He may give you a different answer than I, and I would encourage you to continue walking forward. I think what we lack there is a bit of leadership in terms of what we want to ask the public schools for. I think we've never said to them, if it's going to snow an inch, we need X amount of dollars. We've never really quantified what the ask should be. Mr. Wente? And I think that's accurate. Our first meeting this season was good with Pakenham Public Schools insofar as their request for additional salt where they would feel, you know, So if it's along our primary routes and they feel it needs additional attention per their drive-bys, we'd be happy to cooperate with that. The issues that we were having were these 3 o'clock phone calls that were coming to us during a precipitation event where they were saying we need salt at this intersection that was out of our purview of our snow plan, and I think that was something that they felt if they were going to make requests for additional materials, it would be solely within our mapped snow plan. and there would be specific individuals that would contact us from Fayette County Public Schools. In regards to your request, Vice Mayor, specifically with them contributing to the costs of material, that's something that we actually did engage in a dialogue in perhaps partnering with Fayette County Public Schools in purchasing additional materials moving forward that might lessen our per-ton costs, but nothing further than that at this point. So we need to keep it in committee, it sounds like, and have it in a timely way so that we don't come to July and we're discussing it for the past six months is what I'm thinking. I agree with you, and I'm wondering if there's a way for us to bring additional focus to it. Because, I mean, there must be a quantifiable way to say these are extra streets or extra intersections or extra whatever, and that would cost X amount per mile or per whatever. And then we could turn to them with a certain dollar value because right now we don't really turn to them either way. The discussion of the combination of them buying salt with us is a good one, but I think have you ever talked about how would they buy 25% of the salt or something, or have you had that kind of conversation? Not in that great of detail at this point, no, sir. I would agree with the vice mayor. I don't want to speak for you. Go ahead. Could we hear it in February? Absolutely. Well, I think it would be timely. So I think we'll have to have some offline discussion about what you all can talk about, and we would encourage you to have a meeting between now and our next meeting. Okay. All right? Is that good advice, ma'am? Thank you. Yes. Very good. Thank you, sir. Next up, Council Member Mazzotti. Thank you, Council Member Farmer. You said that we could inquire as far as some of the Issues that have been referred. I wondered if you could just give me a quick synopsis of the revision of the signed ordinance, the design excellence update, and the amendment of Article 5A, 1A, right of entry. Okay. I asked the council to place in the committee the possible revision of the signed ordinance because it just needs it. I mean, we're in a situation where old signs stay up for a morass of reasons that go along with how we currently regulate that. And we've really never taken the time to focus on that. We're at that point now. But we need to sit down and rewrite what's going on there to make it clearer, better, and easier, I think, because we see some things go on that I don't believe go on in other municipalities based on if they take the sign down, they know they can't put it back up. And we want to get in a position where people know what they can do and we can have better signage because of it. Are you also considering different kinds of signage? Absolutely. This might require us to have a little bit of a working group or a separate group to take it up, but I think we'd take any opportunity because I think there's different kinds of signs and different things that could be done with taste or to make Lexington look better rather than leave some hulking signs up out there that have no face to them. They're just a placeholder because if they take it down, they can't put it back. Okay. What was the next one? I'm sorry. Design excellence update. This now has Council Member K's name next to it. And I would just say we just need to call Dr. Blue's. No, I'm kidding. He's the co-chair. You are the co-chair. Do you want to give an update then? Because this is in for quarterly update. Yeah, I'm not prepared. I can give you a brief synopsis of where we are. I'm just asking for a brief synopsis of where we are. Actually, I don't know when. It's a quarterly report. It's a quarterly report. When's it due? Dr. Blues, he gave us a couple of them down the stretch, like a brief one in November and a brief one in December before he left this role. So here's my thought about that is that the Design Excellence Task Force is actually close to engaging a consultant to assist with the actual drafting of language for design excellence, changes in the zone text. That will take probably three or five months. I think it would be appropriate when we get close to the end of that to report back at that time. Absolutely. Okay. Good. And the other? What was the last one, the amendment of Article 5A, right of entry? I don't understand. This is one that had been in, and we took it out and took some of it, and then the vice mayor was pleased. Yes. I think, if I recall, and Council Member Henson was on the public safety link with me and Council Member Myers, the discussion was in the public safety link. This has to do with code enforcement getting into the inside for code enforcement violations. And I think this will soon be ready to be heard. We're hoping, yeah. Council Member Henson, did you want to add to that? It was my understanding, too, that this would also lap over into zoning enforcement. For instance, if there is someone operating a business from home, which is one thing I've had issues with in the 11th District. I'm sure we all do. But then they put up a privacy fence and put it behind the fencing. So then it's questionable as to how that can be enforced. So I know that I recently had a conversation with Chris King in planning about that particular issue. So I hope that that will also be addressed. But I think it's just right of entry in general. Very good. Thank you. Good on all. Thank you, ma'am. Council Member Ford. Thank you, Mr. Chair. The issue of the Oliver Lewis Way project that currently is on our docket as a quarterly update, I was wondering that the committee would be willing to maybe discuss a reclassification of this item and maybe even a referral to a different committee, and I'll explain why. Oliver Lewis. Oliver Lewis, WED Extension. That project was physically completed. Of course, Newtown Pike extended from Main Street, Leastown Road, over to the Main Street over to Versailles Road in anticipation of the WED Games. But it's generally the Newtown Pike Extension project, that long, long project that we're still undergoing. There's so many different components of that project that I think it may benefit us to kind of expose and delve into that a little bit more, particularly the planning aspect from the extension plans from Varsales Road over to the U.K. campus, I think. All right. But particularly there's some implementation and some things that are going on right now from a social services and community development aspect in regards to the community land trust, the housing, the social service and the social engineering that's going on down there. A lot of great things are going on down there. I just throw out the idea, would this topic be more applicable now and beneficial to be referred, for example, to the Social Services and the Community Development Committee, particularly because of the new housing and the social engineering, the social services for that. historically plagued Davis Bottom area. Just a thought, Mr. Chair, and didn't know if the committee had any discussion. Well, I think you make a good point that brings us to discussion because you're right about the physicality of it and then the social aspects, which are just the curtains just going to go up on them. So I see the Vice Mayor has a comment, and we'll just take it from there. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that, Council Member Ford. I wonder if we could leave the big public works project in planning and take the social services pieces as they are timely and hear them in social services. If we could kind of split it out somehow. And I'm not sure exactly how to do that, but I think we would want to leave the public service, I mean, the public works project in here. Okay. And that being basically Newtown Pike Extended. Yes. Vice Mayor and Mr. Chair, I think that that's a way to go. I think it's definitely worth us studying more because that project in itself, as it starts dealing with our low-income residents. Well, let's work on it in terms of either having a motion during a work session or at the very latest the next time this committee meets and split it out according to the areas of need that you're talking about because I think it has been in here in a very broad form, and you're delineating in a way that I think there's a social service aspect for it. In fact, we might just enter it in that role into the social services committee, but I think an excellent point of discussion. Yes, ma'am. Well, I wondered if, I mean, we could make a motion today to be reported out. And I would support that if you want to make the motion to split those social services pieces out and send them to social services, and then we can figure out how to do that. I'm hearing the basis of it. I think that would be good if the committee would support it. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Thank you, Chair. Let's make a motion. I'll make a motion that we, and help me couch this here, I'll make a motion that we, expanding from the Newtown Pike Extension Project, that we refer the items related to social service aspects, particularly the land trust and the neighborhood redevelopment to the Social Services Committee. We have a motion. Second. And a second. Discussion on that, anyone? All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Like side? Well done, sir. Thank you very much. Other items on our referral list or other thought or commentary? Hearing none, I would ask for a motion to adjourn. So moved. Motion second. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Like side. Thank you very much. Thank you.