Music Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. appropriate and necessary. Right, Peggy? Mm-hmm. How many we got? Can we call the meeting to order? We'll take a couple of minutes. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. All right. Yeah, seems like everybody needs to. Call the meeting to order in about three minutes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Hey man. We'll call the meeting to order. Mr. Stennett arrives. That's all right. Just take your time, sir. It's been a busy day. All right. We'll call the meeting to order. This is the meeting of the works session of the council. And first on our agenda is public comment for issues on the agenda. Mr. Mundy is shaking his head. and nobody wishes to speak for issues on the agenda. Then that allows us to move to the second item on our agenda, which is docket approval. There's no docket approval required this week, which allows us to move to the third item, which is approval of the summary. Is there a motion? Motion by Council Member Beard. Is there a second? Second by Council Member Clark. Is there any discussion on the motion? All right. Hearing none, then we can take a vote. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed, no. The motion carries. Item number four is budget amendments. There are no budget amendments to act on this week, which allows us to move to new business. Item number five. Move approval. Motion by Vice Mayor Gordon, second by Council Member Beard. Is there any discussion on the motion on new business? Is there any discussion on the motion? Well, all right. Hearing none, then we can take a vote. All in favor, please, all in favor of the motion to approve, please indicate by saying aye. Aye. Opposed, no. Motion carries. All right, next on our agenda. Continuing business and presentations, and first is the NDFs. Is there a motion to approve the NDFs? No. Motion by Council Member Massadi. Second by Council Member Ellinger. Is there any discussion on the motion? All right. Hearing none, then we can take a vote. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed, no. Motion carries. Next on the agenda is a summary of the General Government Committee meeting on February the 5th, and that will be given by Council Member Kaye. Actually, Mayor, I was not present, and Vice Chair Jenny Sketchfield was there. Would you mind giving the report? Thank you. We called the meeting to order on February 5th. We approved summary. Summary was approved of the previous meeting. We did discuss the amendment of Section 4.104 of the council rules. Several council members discussed updates to the rules. I believe law is going to come back with us with the updates to those rules at the next committee meeting. We also had a presentation by the Metro Employees Credit Union regarding an update to their lease. The website linking policy we went over, and they are, again, going to bring that back to us with the IT division to give us an example of the external linking policy. There were some issues with the items referred to committee that were going to be discussed on whether they needed to be in this committee or the budget committee. And that is all for the committee. Thank you, Council Member Scotchfield. Vice Mayor, you wish to speak to? Yes, sir. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. There does need to be a correction on the general gov minutes, and that is that the very first part should reflect that Councilmember Julian Beard was in attendance. If we could go ahead and change the minutes to reflect that. Thank you. Thank you, Vice Mayor. All right. Thank you, Council Member Scotchfield. And that allows us to move on to the next item, which is the Public Safety Committee summary. Council Member Henson. Thank you, Mayor. The February 5th Public Safety Committee meeting, we approved our summary from the previous meeting. The second item was a nuisance abatement form update from David Jarvis, the director of the Division of Code Enforcement. He presented a new 24-hour notice to abate form. There were some unclear items in the form that several council members spoke about, and we ask that Mr. Jarvis bring that to the next public safety meeting with the corrections to move it forward. Next on the agenda was the hazardous materials ordinance. Each of you received a copy of the ordinance, and this was done because it was just a cleanup of the current ordinance that previously was under emergency management but is now managed by the Division of Fire. Greg Bayer with the Division of Fire mentioned several of the changes made to the ordinance. So I have a motion to move that to the full council. So I move to place on the docket for Thursday, February 28th, an ordinance amending Chapter 16A of the Code of Ordinances, the Lexington Fayette-Urban County Government pertaining to hazardous materials. Second. Motion by Council Member Henson. Second by Vice Mayor Gordon. Is there any discussion on the motion? Any discussion on the motion? All right. Hearing none, then we can take a vote. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed, no. Motion carries. And then third on our agenda was, or fourth, was the public nuisance ordinance. Leah Boggs, Council Member Kay's aide, presented a PowerPoint presentation. Changes were made to the current public nuisance ordinance that it applies to all properties, not just residential. It added assaults, sexual offenses, weapons violations, and any felony. And it did exclude crimes which was not in the current ordinance, in which the owner or occupant is the victim of a crime, and had no control over the criminal act. There was quite a bit of discussion on that. Several members of the public spoke. and then a motion was made by Councilmember Akers to move it to the full council with a second by Councilmember Lawless. So I have a motion to move to place on the February 28th docket a first reading of ordinances, amending section 12-60, 12-61, and 12-63 of the code of ordinances relating to public nuisances. So moved. Motion by Council Member Henson. Second by Council Member Lawless. Is there any discussion on the motion? All right. Hearing none, then we can take a vote. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed, no. Motion carries. That concludes my report. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Council Member Henson. Next on our agenda is a presentation by the Citizens Advocate, the 2012 Annual Report by Citizens Advocate, Penny McFadden. Penny, welcome. Thank you. It's been a long time since I've stood up here, so bear with me. You've got all new equipment, and I hope I don't move these screens around or something. I wanted to take this opportunity to start out with to give you just a little bit of information, or the folks at home, just a little bit of information about the Office of the Citizens Advocate. It is a very, very, very small office, just me, and I'm there part-time. I'm there about 20 hours a week, and I wanted to give my office hours, Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, from 9 a.m. to 1 p.m., and on Tuesdays from 1 to 5. There's a lot of different ways that folks can get in touch with me. By phone, 859-258-3230. By fax, 859-258-3232. email citadv at lexingtonky.gov or you can go to the website www.lexingtonky.gov and on the website if you look for the Citizens Advocate webpage you'll find that my email address is there and there's also a new web form that folks can fill out if they need a little guidance kind of giving me the information that they think that I need. You can also stop by to see me at the Government Center, 200 East Main Street, room 441, or you can write me at 200 East Main Street, room 441, Lexington, Kentucky, 40507. I wanted to give a little summary information of some of the activities that have gone on during the year in the Citizens Advocate Office. If you'll look at this little graph here, you will see that during 2012, we had 205 citizen contacts. And it looks like, if you look at each quarter, that it's pretty even throughout the quarters. Total intake in 2011 was 134 citizen contacts, which means that this year it was pretty busy. I had 71 more contacts than they had in 2011, and that's an increase of nearly 53%. The citizen contacts can be broken down into contact types. One is assistance, complaint, and informational. Assistance might be somebody that calls and says, gee, I got an emergency bill for an ambulance and I don't think this is right. Can you help me figure it out? Can you help me find the people that I need to talk to? A complaint might be, for example, if we've done a project in an area. I had a lady, we'd done a project in her area, and we'd gone through her yard, and we'd fixed it back. But her complaint was that it was not fixed back the way it was before we were there. So we had to look at that and investigate it. And informational may just be, who do I need to call? If I want some information about zoning changes and the process that you have to go through for a zoning change, and then in that case I just forward them on to the folks in planning. Okay, this gives a little bit of a recap of which departments were affected by these calls, and I'll read through those because I had to abbreviate them. Some of them have very long titles that wouldn't fit on this chart. CAO's office, the council office, environmental quality and public works, general services, the law department, Lexington Parking Authority, the mayor's office, outside agencies, planning, public safety, finance, and social services. And you will see that outside agencies, that's what I get calls about the most. And some of those outside agencies are agencies that are related to us, and I can make calls and do a little bit of investigation and a little bit of help on those. The agency within the urban county government that I get the most contact for is public safety. And although that's kind of divided by several different agencies within public safety, the number one is probably police and number two would be code enforcement. Now I wanted to give you just a little idea of maybe one of the calls that I've gotten and how we deal with it. And I like to call this one, Where's My Car? A citizen called in, and she had parked her car in front of an apartment building. She went out of town the next day with a friend and was gone for a week or so, came back, and her car wasn't there. So where's my car? Well, she did make a couple of phone calls, and she found out that her car had been towed. and she felt that it had been towed inappropriately. She also found out that it was going to cost her $600 plus to get that car back. And one, she said she didn't have the $600. Two, she didn't feel like it should have been towed in the first place. So what I did is I went to the location of where the car had been parked and found that it had been parked on a public right-of-way. But I also called the towing company, which happens to be the urban county government company that we use, and they said that they had been called by the apartment building, and they had been told that the car was on the apartment building's property. So I went ahead and I checked with the police just to make sure that they had not asked for the car to be towed. They had not. I called the apartment building, the people at the apartment building. and they had mistakenly assumed that where the car was parked was their property. It was not. Once I contacted the towing company, the towing company realized that they had towed it inappropriately, that only the police can tell them that they can tow it from public right-of-way. So they decided that, yeah, I'm sorry we made a mistake. We thought it was private property. It wasn't. They released the car, and they waived the fees. and the lady did not have to pay $600 to get her car back. So she was very, very, very excited. When I'm doing these things and I'm going through and I'm looking at these complaints or these people will call maybe and ask for help, some of the things that I find are governmental issues, which means that I find things that kind of raise a red flag to me and causes me to think maybe these are things that I should bring forward to you guys because it may be that you want to take a second look at these. And one of them is the conditional access list. And for those people out listening to this who don't know what the conditional access list is, it's a list that contains names of persons who during a visit to the urban county government facilities are limited in their access to certain people, certain offices, or they may be required to have an escort to certain offices because of some type of past behavior or some kind of incident. Now, this list is a very important list because it does speak to the safety of the people that come here to visit and the people that work here. But I have had some folks that have had their names placed on the list that have called and had questions and had some complaints about this. And the number one complaint that I've had is that they are upset about the way that they were notified that their name's been placed on the list. And how they are notified that their name has been placed on the list is when they come back into the government center and they go to the security desk, the security person at that point will tell them that their name has been placed on the list and they will tell them what conditions are placed on their visit to the government facility. The folks that have talked to me have been a little upset that they say that other people have been standing around the security desk and other people have heard that they're on this list, and it's been kind of embarrassing to them. So this is, you know, one of their complaints. A couple other things that really have popped up to me for this list is that I think that it's important, and I've kind of noticed that the people who are on this list feel like they don't understand, and sometimes when you read the little paper that requests that people be on the list, it doesn't quite spell out the types of behavior or events that should place somebody on the list. People will always ask me if there's an appeal process, and there at this time doesn't seem to be an appeal process. And for my purposes, I would like to have some documentation when people come to me as to what happened and when it did, because then that's easier to go back to them and explain what happened and why they're on the list. Now, I had contacted the CAO's office back in July and asked to work with them to come up maybe with a CAO policy that kind of went into some of this. We did work on a policy, and the policy was signed. I recently found out, though, that the policy was never implemented. And so this kind of gives me the opportunity to come to you and give a recommendation that this issue maybe be placed in a council committee or some kind of subcommittee that's created by you to kind of go back and look at these questions. You know, it's good for the people that get placed on the list so they know what kind of behaviors, and it's spelled out and we have them there, that they're not supposed to engage in. It's also good for the people that place these folks on the list to know what puts them on the list. How far do they have to go before we're able to put them on the list? Because I think some people maybe do hesitate sometimes putting people on the list because they're not sure that they're a little worried, like, did they do something wrong enough to be on the list? And then on the other hand, some people may be putting people on the list when it's not a big incident that maybe has happened. So my recommendation would be to turn that over to you all, and maybe you could come up with some policies or a policy and some procedures for this. Okay. One of the things that I also dealt with is someone had come to me to say that they knew that there was an employee in one of the divisions that had a CDL position, a commercial driver's license, and their position was required to have a CDL, but when they were hired that they actually did not have a CDL. So I found that this was unfounded after I investigated it. But one of the things I did find during my investigation is asking for a copy of their CDL license so I could look at it and see, I found that HR does not maintain a copy of their license. They only put it in a database, and that it's up to the division to maintain the records. So I contacted the division, and the division in question said that they also maintained a database, but they did not keep copies of the CDL license. So a question came up to me is, okay, you know, this is pretty important that these folks have their CDLs if they're driving this big equipment around. So who ensures that they do have their CDLs and that they haven't been revoked or they haven't expired? And when I asked the division that, they told me, well, it's the employee's responsibility to come and tell us, which we all know sometimes does not exactly happen. So I contacted another division that I knew that had a lot of CDL positions, and they did kind of have a procedure in place that dealt with this, and that was that they did maintain a spreadsheet with all the expiration dates of the CDLs and the medical cards because you can actually have a license, but maybe you haven't filled out your medical card, so the license is really not good. but they also keep copies of the CDLs, and they keep copies of the medical cards on file. They do a quarterly update, which means they go to their folks quarterly and say, okay, these are the people that it looks like they were supposed to expire. We need new copies of your CDLs, and we need new copies of your medical cards. And they also do random checks at safety meetings. So this to me was a more comfort level on this CDL issue, and the person that I talked to at this division felt very strongly that it was important to keep these records, and it was for the best of the division to know that the folks that they employed there did have their CDL license and that they had not expired and that they were valid. Okay, so it's my recommendation that the administration maybe take a look at this divisional policy and the way that different divisions manage their CDL information. And even though I know that we're trying to streamline things and go to, let's just have computer records, sometimes actual copies of things may be more important. okay and the next and final issue that i saw was false alarms didn't know that there was actually a false alarm board here but there is if you have an alarm in your alarm system in your house you have to get a permit okay and when looking at another issue in reading the ordinance what i found out is that to get a permit, you usually don't go straight to the urban county government. You go through the alarm company. And the alarm company actually gives you the information. You pay the alarm company. The alarm company pays the urban county government. Then when your permit expires, the urban county government sends out a renewal notice to the alarm company. the alarm company sends that out to the person that owns the alarm. Now, what's been happening lately is there are a few alarm companies who have kind of been dropping the ball on this and have not been sending out renewal notices. And what happens if somebody has a false alarm during that time period and they haven't been renewed, then they get sent a citation for $100. So what this says to me is that the responsibility for renewing these permits or actually getting these permits is being placed on the alarm company, but if these permits are not renewed or if they don't actually get them, then the homeowner is the person that ends up having to pay the citation. When I was in public works, we actually had a similar issue to this with dumpsters where the dumpster companies were having all the responsibilities to get the permits and renew the permits and place the dumpsters and so on. But if they didn't do their job, then the property owner was the person that ended up being fined. So I would just like to recommend and ask that the administration reviews this false alarm ordinance and maybe consider placing the responsibility of, well, the responsibility is on the false alarm company, but also replacing, you know, the consequences on the false alarm company because they are the ones that actually are getting the permits renewed and getting the original permits rather than the homeowners. So that ends my report for exciting 2012. Thank you, Penny. Thank you, thank you. We have some council members signed up for comments or questions. Council Member, actually Vice Mayor Gordon. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you very much, Penny. You're our first permanent part-time citizen advocate, so you're kind of our guinea pig in a way. And I want to thank you because I think that things have been working very well from you and your office. And I did have a couple questions. On your sixth slide, the 2012 quarterly report recap, where you noted that the highest number of grand total calls were from public safety, or the second highest, excuse me, and you said they were first police and second code. Going back to your categories, assistance, complaint, informational, do you remember in terms of police and code if those were requests for assistance or if they were complaints, or do you recall how that broke out? There are less complaints than you would think. Let's talk about police first. Less complaints than you would think. I think a lot of it is people are a little afraid when it comes to calling the police department. And so if there are questions or issues or things that they need to have looked into a little further, and they are not calling for an officer to come out, they're calling about something else, they're a little nervous about calling the police department. And so they'll call me, and I'm able to kind of be a little bit of the go-between between them and the police department. Now, there have been two or three complaints. I do not handle complaints for police officers. That goes to IA, and so I will tell them to call IA or ask them to call the police officer supervisor. But mostly I think it has been just people a little nervous about contacting the police department, who to contact there and things like that. Now with code enforcement, it's interesting. About half my calls are from people who are upset because they have been cited, and about the other half of my calls are from people who are upset because somebody hasn't been cited. So it kind of, you know, they kind of offset each other a little bit. Right. But that's really most of the cause for code enforcement. Okay. Okay. I appreciate that. And then my other question was on your recommendation about the conditional access list. I wonder if rather than put this into a council committee, if it might be good to have kind of a work group of someone from the mayor's office or the CAO office and security and general services and someone from the council because it affects all of government as to who can walk in that door and get access. So, I mean, we could put it in a council committee, but it might be helpful to just get a recommendation from a group of the folks who deal with it all the time. Maybe you could be on that group. Okay. And I don't know if it would be appropriate to have it as a CAO policy or whether we want to actually put it in, you know, what we would do with it is put it in an ordinance. I don't know if that would be better than maybe a CAO policy. I don't know. Well, there was, I guess, a CAO policy that was developed back in July, But there were some of the issues that it really didn't address, and then the policy was never made official. So I wasn't sure exactly the best way to go about it, but I'd be open for anything. I just think it needs to be looked at, and some of these issues need to be addressed. I agree with you. We've had multiple questions about it. Okay, thank you very much. Maybe Penny and Sally can get together and review and maybe suggest process. Would that work? Yes, thank you. That would work. Okay, great. Thank you. Okay. Council Member Massadi. Thank you, Mayor. And I want to say thank you to Penny. I have sent a couple of unusual requests to your office, and you've spent a lot of time on it and got them done efficiently. And I just wanted to say publicly thank you for doing that because I don't think a lot of people realize what a resource we have here in you and the government. So hopefully those that are watching today on GTV3 will realize that we do have an advocate for them and that there are a lot of different scopes of areas that you can provide assistance with. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Sadi. Council Member Lawless. Yep, Council Member Hanson. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, P&E, for such a good report. And I think as far as the recommendations go, I was a little concerned about, you know, I want to make sure that we handle those things. And I know the vice mayor talked about our list, and I'm assuming that security currently holds the list, right? So, and how they, we don't know how they get placed on the list or any of that process, so that would be good to have. With the CDL information, I do know that our Lexington Police Department pulls over drivers real often, commercial drivers driving where they have to have a DOT or whatever. And I would say this is true for many of the vehicles that we own. So to me it would be very important that we follow the proper guidelines. And if a person is driving a vehicle, maybe don't have a license at all, but they don't want to tell their supervisor or manager that they've lost their license. So we should have a way of periodically, annually, give me a copy of your driver's license. Same with CDL or any time you drive a LFUCG vehicle, anyone that's authorized, I would think. But I'm not sure if that would fall under fleet or who that should fall under. So I would recommend the administration also look into that. All righty. Sally, I'm sorry. Sally and I are going to be best friends here in a minute. Yeah, she's a good one. But, you know, I think I've gotten a lot of complaints recently about our DOT officers citing folks pulling trailers and lawn care companies and things like that. So, like, we should obey those rules as well. Well, and I'm sure most of the divisions keep a database, but, you know, sometimes database is the first thing I learned about a database is garbage in, garbage out. And sometimes there's, you know, a keying error or something. And so I think that if you have some of these other things in place, it would be helpful. Yeah, I agree. But I really appreciate your work. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Henson. Council Member Lawless. Thank you, Mayor. Two things. on the restricted access. I think that too is an administrative thing, but it needs to be very careful. And I think it's also very important that that process also protects whoever puts them on that restricted access list. And secondly, on the false alarm company, One of the issues is that it's a fee that's paid to the urban county government, and the alarm companies are responsible for getting that data and paying the fee. And there isn't, you know, many people such as myself who have a lot of experience with alarm companies, the data doesn't change, but there's not an easy way to enter that data with, I mean, it's like a hard copy you have to fill out, because the division of public safety that deals with the alarm system doesn't have. And so it seems to me that just looking at that whole process of why people can't go online and update that directly with the police, et cetera, rather than, you know, it's a real roundabout way. So, and again, I don't think we have any other business that is responsible for collecting a required urban county government fee on behalf of their customers and getting that data. So it really is technically between the Division of Public Safety and the individual homeowner. So I'm just going to throw that out for as people look at that and examine that, that that's kind of an antiquated process. And then you fill it out hard copy, you send it to the alarm, and the alarm companies keep it updated, but they won't accept that update from them. They could just shoot them an Excel spreadsheet once a year with all that information, but they don't have it. So then they have to enter the data, and then the police or the public safety alarm people have to enter manually the data. So it's cumbersome and somewhat antiquated. Yeah, and I think one of the problems is when the lady I talked to, her complaint was, you know, I paid for my permit and then it came up for renewal. And I think a lot of us, I know I don't, I know some people that are very organized and they probably know when every bill comes in, But a lot of us don't remember that last year on February 19th they paid their bill and it's going to be due again on February 19th without receiving some notice and that the alarm companies weren't giving the homeowners that notice and then therefore their permit had expired. So then when they had a false alarm, police went out there and it's like, oh, they've got a false alarm, they don't even have a permit. and rightly so, according to the ordinance, they gave them a $100 fine. But somehow it was in the middle that the alarm companies did not. And I'm sure there are some alarm companies that are better than others, but it's also a very cumbersome, you know, I don't mind the fee, or I think the alarm company that I have pays the fee, but I've still got the paper to hand fill out with the same information. The alarm company has that information, but it's required by the – so I think looking at how that works would be a good idea. Yeah, this is a good opportunity for that. All right. Thank you. Council Member Lawless. Penny, thanks very much. I, too, have hurt – oh, all right, didn't see Council Member Stenner. I was going to ask Commissioner Mason, do you want to add anything in on the false alarm? I know when Council passed this in 2006, it was set up so that the burden was on the police department to collect the fee, and then now we've shifted that burden to the alarm companies. And then tell us some more information. By happenstance, for a couple of weeks I've had a meeting this morning on my calendar about alarms because I'd asked the police department to take a look at some revenue figures in a couple of different areas that they have. And some of these things were recognized as some issues. We are looking at revamping the ordinance in terms of updating the fee structure. there is recognized a problem with some alarm companies not passing the annual fee over to the LFUCG. And so we're looking at trying to come up with a way, an automated system which can correct that. Just in the past couple of years, the contract registration fees and fines have gone from $318,000 in FY11 to $368,000 in 2012 to $580,000 this year. So we're looking at some ways to ensure that we're also not missing any monies that are out there. I met this morning with some of the police staff, and they presented a package that also included some solutions for some of the technological issues that they're dealing with in trying to work this system in a better way for the citizens. But hopefully the Public Safety Committee will be getting that as soon as we get up with law and work on some language changes to the ordinance. Thank you. If we could add electronic submission maybe in the future. That's one of the ways to be able to do that. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Thank you. All right. Penny, thanks again. I, too, I was going to say you've heard a lot of praise for your positive spirit and approach to problem solving. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. All right. We can move on to the council reports, which is next on the agenda. If Council members wish to offer a report, please sign on. Council Member Massadi. Thank you, Mayor. All of you should have a resolution that I've passed in front of you. I hope you all do in reference to public safety. If someone does not, please let me know. But my concern is I think it was from the first day that I've been here about the brownouts that we continually have throughout the city, and I don't think there's anyone on this horseshoe that doesn't disagree with me that this is not a huge public safety issue. I know there have been concerns about financing and so forth, but I don't think you can put that as a reason as far as not going forward with a basic service that we provide our citizens and that they pay for. So, therefore, I'm submitting this resolution for your consideration, basically directing the Mayor, the Commissioner of Public Safety, and the Fire Chief to immediately end the practice of temporarily suspending fire equipment or stations from service or brownouts. I so move. Second. Second. There's a motion. And there's a motion, Council Member Sati, second by Council Member Scotchfield. Is there any discussion on the motion? Yeah, we'll need to just hands up on the motion for discussion, and I suspect that we'll need some comments from the observations and comments from the administration as well. Does any council members wish to speak to the motion? Clay, I thank you. Well, I think, again, as we've said, Chief Jackson, when he came in, how many months ago, Chief now? 23. 23 months ago. But whose county? You know, set upon establishing a plan to incorporate both public safety and fiscal responsibility in looking at the breadth of the Division of Fire. And we have tried very hard to keep the brownouts to a minimum. We have a new class in currently. We're very near the end of a process to bring on another class starting here in the next couple of months. And we're very confident in the plan we've been operating under for a good while and feel like it's very viable, it's very good. Our response times are still very good. And we're in a position to say that what we've set up works. Council Member Lane. Thank you, Mayor. Yes, I know people are concerned about brownouts, but I take the position that the operation of the government is the prerogative of the Mayor's office, and I think you all are doing a reasonably good job of minimizing brownouts, and there's going to be occasions where that's going to have to happen. And I think it would be difficult if we stipulated that you could never have a ground out because I don't think that's practical to put that mandatory obligation on operations. All right. Council Member Ford. Thank you, Mayor. I support the resolution that Council Member Masati has brought forward. I take heed to the comments that Council Member Lane just offered as well and Commissioner Mason. But I can only speak for myself in that I know that this is a major concern of my constituents. And I know I can talk for quite a while at times, but I guess I'll just leave it there, is that this is a piece of legislation, very succinct and clear in its legislative intent, and this one council member supports it. I hope it will be a clear sign to the administration to advise us of what it will take. We understand that there will be some shuffling, but in the vein of public safety, I think, is what our constituents are calling for. And so I thank Jennifer for bringing this forward in your consideration, Mayor. Thank you. All right. Does any other council members wish to speak? Council Member Clark. Thank you, Mayor. I've also had several comments from constituents about brownouts, And I certainly hope that we can get rid of them as soon as we possibly can. And I appreciate it. Council Member Mazzardi is already bringing this to our attention. On the other hand, I think this is a matter of personnel, and it's a matter of taking what we have and trying to do the best with us, and the best we can with it. I think that's the problem. And I have talked to several people about when we begin to have additional personnel, that we hope will automatically reduce the need for brownouts. I also have a concern that a brownout occurs when a crew is off on another run. That station is simply uncovered, and if something comes up at that time, you have an automatic brownout that nobody creates. It's just the fact of life in assigning crews to various parts of the city. And so I'm probably just as concerned about brownouts as anybody. But I think to force this issue at this point probably is not wise, and I would probably vote against it. Thank you. Thank you, Councilman Clark. um councilman farmer i'm supportive of my colleagues in the conversation um i might have phrased this a little bit differently in terms of directing it to immediately in the practice and i'm a student of conversation and so i i feel like the the will of the council is behind doing something here. And with that in mind, in thinking it needs more conversation than what we can get out of it today or propose in this short resolution, which does get to the heart of what we want, I just think it might be better couched both in terms of our conversation as well as information that the administration may want to bring to us in terms of decision-making to refer this to our next Budget and Finance Committee meeting so that we can have a full conversation about it before we would take action on it or change the verbiage in it because it may be that we want to hear more before we act. And so I would just, by way of amendment, propose to send this resolution to Budget and Finance for consideration during the next meeting. And there may not be a second for that, but my conversation point is complete. There's a motion to refer to budget and finance this resolution. Is there a second? There's a second by Council Member Kay. Is there a discussion on the motion to amend? Council Member Kay. Yeah, just a little, perhaps a little clarification of why I think that might be useful. It seems to me that there's a difference between brownouts as a policy and brownouts as an exception. that happens despite the policies we have. And I also feel that I personally don't know enough about what it would take to end it immediately or what it would take to put in place or what plan there is in place to end brownouts and how long it will take. I've also heard from constituents a concern about this issue, and it's extremely difficult to explain to people why a basic service of government is not being delivered according to our own standards of what we feel is appropriate. So I would support the motion to put it into Budget and Finance, get some of this information, and have a little further discussion about it. Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Kaye. I see the Chief has stepped up to the podium. Chief, let me ask Council Member Beard, and then I'll ask you to speak. Council Member Beard. Just putting it in budget and finance extends the time, if in fact time is of the essence, we're just throwing a month away that we could be implementing the secession of brownouts. It's amazing how the public latches on to certain things and makes it a bigger deal maybe than it is. And maybe that's our fault for communication or lack of thereof. I think the most common thing I hear is $300 million for Rupp Arena. Now they're going to run a river down Vine Street, but we've got brownouts. I mean, that's 99 times out of 100. That's what it is. And it becomes a reality to these folks. I guess they think that we're down here digging the holes right now. And for that matter, there are probably a whole bunch of people that haven't been downtown in a long time. And that's a fact of life, too. So I support the motion. I'd like to go ahead and see it implemented, and we can go from there. And I'd like to see it done, or at least started immediately. Okay. I would like to speak to it as well. First, if I may, Chief, let me speak to it. This is, to my knowledge, this is the first that the administration is aware of this. and I've learned that there's wisdom on the council and respect that and often to step back and take a deep breath but I do ask you to sometimes our institutional memory I recognize can be short this man stepped into this role less than two years ago at a time when we were experiencing overtime that had peaked at more than $2 million and tried to adjust it and adjusted it down from when he inherited it from $800,000 down. And at the same time, worked to improve morale in the department that was severely challenged. and that generally is what good management is all about and leadership is all about. He led more than 800 members of his armed services unit in Iraq, a pretty good demonstration of leadership and management. and he came into this role and immediately began embracing a plan, creating a plan. It was designed to address these issues, including an unexpected number of retirements and adjusted and adapted. And he's working that plan today. I hope I'm not taking anything away, Chief, from what you're about to say. I would encourage, as you said, Council Member Beard, that sometimes we can react, and that's part of democracy, understand. At the same time, it's worthwhile for us to recognize that our actions can have a real impact, and reactionary actions can have often more of an impact. What's the cost of this if you annualize it? I think one time, Chief, you said that it could be $40,000 to $50,000 a week. That's $2 million a year or more. So the spirit, I recognize the spirit of the motion and the amendment, and I want to ask the Chief to speak to it because I do think that while the conversation and discussion about this and engaging the administration and the command staff would be worthwhile to examine it, I think that certainly could merit attention. So, Chief? Real quick and brief as I can be in explaining the last 23 months, Taking on the position, we started out at 545, had over 40 retirements, plus 2012. We were down 80 firefighters from 545 to 582. I was directed to come up with a plan that would provide protection for the citizens of this community with 482 firefighters, let me correct myself, 482 firefighters, to include officers and administrators to maintain an EMS program that was probably, well, in my eyes, because I'm a paramedic, I've maintained my paramedic for 19 years now, the most exemplary paramedic system in the state of Kentucky and probably the United States. So with that, I worked with the staff to create a program that would not close fire stations, number one, that would provide a system that rotated through the community and would not cause any disruption politically to the different varied areas of the community. So with that, we created the SAPA process. and quote-unquote brownouts were going to be a part of our directive in protecting the city. So our focus then became on to provide you, the council, and the community a fiscally responsible department. And with that, we went from, as the mayor made reference to, almost $3 million in overtime to working with $69,000. And with that $69,000, we have been able to move forward and do some positive things, continue to brown out, which we started out with nine trucks in 2012. we were browning out nine trucks a day. That would include the personnel that were not present off each shift and to allow us to conduct training. From that point to the beginning to the middle of this year, or last year, 2012, we reduced that to three trucks. currently with the most recent class and this being a season where not a lot of guys or gals are taking off we have, for example today, we're not browning out any trucks so it's a seasonal issue beyond the technical issue so as we spoke about three weeks ago So the primary way that we end brownouts is to get our personnel numbers back up. And in getting our personnel numbers back up, the ship commanders are allowed to manage on a daily basis or reduce brownouts to where they're nonexistent. So as we move forward, we could give you a dollar amount, which we did. We discussed a couple of weeks ago. And right here, when we briefed you, it was about $3 million to get through the year. And that would be the nine personnel, three trucks that we would get us through the end of the year and hopefully into the next fiscal year. So what we've asked for, and I think been given in some budget amendments, is an opportunity to manage about $200 extra, $1,000. And with that, we've been able to get our paramedic class through and, like I said, get to the point now where on specific days, not every day, we have no brownouts. We have enough personnel to ensure that every station is manned. But as the commissioner, I called you commissioner, I moved you up, didn't it? Councilman Clark made reference to as we try to be fiscally responsible and then provide the utmost care and service to the citizens of this community, We also have to understand that there are situations where if engine four is in training, nobody's at that station because they're in training. So if somebody pulls up to station four and station four is in training, then we have a situation where somebody may consider that truck browned out, but it's not browned out. They're in training. So our job is kind of fluid. Not kind of, it is. It's a fluid position that we're in. And so as we move forward, I ask that you support me and support the Division of Fire with the hiring of the classes and letting us put the personnel in the positions. You know, I'm not a dumb guy. I would ask you for the money. But like I said the first time, the money is just a Band-Aid. We need the personnel. And so with that, if you approve the budget amendments and allow us to continue to work the system and then hire the classes that we hopefully will hire in April and May and then a follow-on class in October, November time period, then we'll get our numbers up. And as we go through the links process, I'm going to ask for some more personnel that will give us the buffer that we need to ensure that the citizens that ask you the questions, the answer will be there. So, you know, we provided the public safety aspect with the Division of Fire, the personnel. So brownouts are not a question anymore. So as we move forward, you know, I thank you for your support. first, but understand that we've put a plan together. We want to see it through. If we can get some monetary support, some funding to help us get through the tough periods, which is spring break, the summertime, until we can get these recruits on the line, then we'll do our best, continue to do our best to manage and provide the citizens with the best fire department in the state of Kentucky. Thank you, Chief. I think Vice Mayor Gordon wishes to speak, and then Council Member Lane. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Chief. I think probably the intent of this resolution is born from the questions that we all get and the concerns by the public about brownouts. I have a couple questions. The brownouts, well, they're not exactly the same kind of brownouts, but what Council Member Clark mentioned about when a unit is in training and they're not there. It seems to me we've always had that, have we not? Or is that a new? That's not new. That's not new. I just use that as an example of the situation that has been multiplied because of the brownouts. And I say multiply because when someone pulls up to a station, Station 10 right from my grandmother's house, you know, the buggies out, but we browned out Engine 10. But the ladder and the engine are out, and someone comes to me because they know who I am, and they say, well, that station's browned out. I can pull out. I can't do it today because my phone, I just got a new phone, I don't know how to use it. But I can say they're on a run. And so that's just an example of the fluidity of our profession. So we've always had those situations where we had firefighters who were in training pulled off of their trucks to go train because they're required to do their training, correct? Yeah, we have to maintain. And they have to maintain that. So I think the things that I know that I hear about, I don't want to speak for other council members, but are the ones that were budget-related. So maybe the idea here with your amendment, Mr. Farmer, is that I know I would like to again at some point this spring see the way forward because I know you've been working hard with the administration on the plan to be sure we pump up our numbers and have our new classes. and I've had a lot of faith in you in particular because I think we've seen the plans coming forward as we've gone along and so to see the plan as to the other kind of brownouts going down is what I'm really interested in And I think I'll support your motion to go ahead and put it into budget and finance. I don't think a month is too far away because I think the chief has just explained that there is a plan in place, and we've heard about it, and that would certainly be soon enough to hear it again and see what the future holds. And as I stated, we got down to 482, and our numbers are inching up. We're right now at $4.99 because the class comes out in two weeks. So I'm starting to count those guys as one gal, guys and gal, as a member of our service because on March 1st, they'll move from the recruit firefighter to the probationary firefighter stage. And then our numbers. And so the plan in and of itself is starting to work. because as we go from 480 to the 499, and then hopefully with the blessing, we get the additional firefighters, then we're up to 530 or so. And then as we move from 530 and next January, I'm hoping to be up to around 545, 550, which puts us back where we were in Brown House. Okay, and are the budget amendments coming to us this spring, or do we know when some of those will be coming? Yes, ma'am. Yes? Okay. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Chief. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Council Member Lane, then Council Member Stennett. Chief, we had a meeting some time ago, and you were explaining to me your strategy when you had to close down a station on a temporary basis, how you redefine the service areas of the other stations around that. I think that the people who live in Fayette County would like to understand how that works because that, to me, makes me feel really good that we have a plan if we have to close the station, how we're going to service every home, and there won't be anybody that will be overlooked. Right. When we put our plan together, we base it on our five districts. So if we have Station 10, I'll go back to Station 10. And if we have Station 10 out of service, then we have Engine 13, which is on Lees Town Road, Engine 4, which is on Jefferson Street, and Engine 8, which is on North Broadway, who provides the same coverage in that area. And, of course, with that, our response time slowdown, 30 or 40 seconds, but you have an engine coming from the north, an engine coming from the south, an engine coming from the east. And you just take that and you move it throughout the whole city. So if engine 15 is out, we have engine 22, we have engine 20, and we have engine 12 that are in the response area. So we'll never close down a station. I don't want to use that. We'll never brown out a station that doesn't have the proper response times or the second-end unit taken out within the same district. So that way our response times are not increased to the point where we are outside the national standard. So that has been our strategy from the beginning. Thank you for that explanation. It makes me feel very comfortable that we're on top of our game and we're ready to respond to any emergency that comes up in a prompt and immediate time frame. If I could, I'd like to elaborate on a brief point. When Chief Jackson talks about units being in training, they are on duty. They are at the training academy on Old Frankfurt Pike, which is centrally located in town. So if something does occur, they can pull those people off of their training status and send them back out to respond to events. So that's also another important point. They're not out-of-town training. They are actually within the New Circle Road area. All right. Council Member Stennett. Thank you, Mayor. Chief, I had a couple of follow-up questions based on some of my comments. I wasn't clear. You said for the rest of the fiscal year, how much money do you need? And I assume those were through the budget amendments you referenced. You said an amount, a million or three million or something. No, that was when we had the presentation here. For us to get through the rest of the year, it would be about three men per truck, three trucks, would be about $3.2 million for the fiscal year. That would be from this point all the way to June 30th. That was the number that we had up there. Right, and what does $3.2 million do for us? That puts those three personnel on three trucks. for the three trucks that we brown out. So it's basically overtime dollars that would end brownouts. Right. And you're bringing budget amendments, did I hear that, to that effect? So you're already doing that? No, we're bringing a budget amendment that would allow us to manage, because right now we're not browning out those trucks because we're managing our personnel. Our personnel numbers are up. So those budget amendments are to help pay for the paramedic class that we have going on, which those students are off the trucks, and we're paying those guys to be in class. And so those guys are, the backfield will come from that. So those budget amendments are in reference to supporting the paramedic class and overtime money. And how much of that was overtime? of those amendments? $100. Yeah, $120 and $80. Okay, so if this resolution were to pass today, could we end brownouts with overtime dollars, given the fact that we don't have the personnel bodies today? Yeah. I mean, that would be the very expensive way to go about doing it, but yeah. But it could. And you also said that a class graduates in two weeks. Right. When does the next class start? And you said the blessing. I'm not sure who needs to give the blessing, but I think this body is fully behind starting them as soon as possible. You guys vote on it. But we're getting to the end of our polygraphs right now. Sure. So in two weeks you're ready to go then? No, no. We'll have to go through the selection process. Once the polygraphs are done, and then we'll go through a selection process to select our next group of recruits. And then they have to go through the psychological and physical, and then we'll have them before council. Okay. Well, I just want to end by saying a couple comments. Chief, first of all, this motion has nothing to do with your leadership and your ability. I think we're all 110% behind that. I think you've done an excellent job with the tools you've been given. I asked back in December for a presentation in January about how this body could help, help you do your job better, give you better tools. I think that's sort of what this motion speaks to. It speaks to that the council is willing to get behind something and put overtime dollars if it means ending the brownouts. Because I know the administration and yourself, you all don't like brownouts any more than we do. But at the end of the day, we set the policy as this body. I heard on Friday many colleagues supporting that. Now today I hear a lot of different tone. I'm not sure what happened over the weekend, but having said that, you know, we owe it to the community to make public safety our top priority. And we can dream over here, and we've got to balance those two together and have a vision for the future. But at the end of the day, if we're not meeting our basic services, then what are we doing here? What are we doing? And saying a month won't hurt, well, I've already heard the presentation back in January. All this says is let the administration figure out the best way to do it. It doesn't say you have to do it with all overtime. It doesn't say you've got to do it tomorrow on Wednesday. What it asks is find a way to do it. Let us know what the plan is because the vice mayor spoke about the plan. And to be honest with you, I don't think anyone here can articulate what the real plan is because we've supported fire. We're just talking fire today. We've supported you in the budgets the last two years. We put those classes in there. We all agreed unanimously. we want that to happen. So I'm trying to figure out what else we can do, and that's what this resolution says. We want to end them. I know you do too, Chief, because you've done a great job. The men and women of fire who have gone through the plan the last couple of years have done a great job. But this council, this expresses our sentiment that we want to end it and end it sooner rather than waiting. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you. Thank you, I thank Council Member Farmer. And then Kay. Thank you, Mayor. Certainly there's an abundance of concern. There's been kind of an economy of conversation. In speaking earlier with Council Member Mazzotti, it would have been my preference to send this issue to committee so that the council can craft the legislation rather than, in deference to Council Member Stenet, this says directed to immediately end. And I, like everyone else here, hold very personally the stake each of us has in the protection of the citizens of Lexington. But I can't imagine us doing this not knowing what it actually will cost. I think we're kind of sitting back a little bit and saying, hey, we know there's a fund balance. Let's just go ahead and spend it. We don't actually know how much the fund balance is. We don't actually know what this would cost. And we've gotten two really good responses from the chief and the commissioner giving us, for the first time in my mind, and you can talk about what we talked about in January or what you presented in January, I need a timeline. I would almost rather just say end the temporary suspension or whatever brownouts by the end of the physical year or by a certain date so that we can work into it. I think this is a little too, and Council Member Kay in conversation used the term draconian, because this is couched too forcefully. and I think that we can find a way to end this quicker than a month's time if we set our mind to it rather than shoving this out there to say just get this done because I don't think that's responsible leadership or management either. So I would still go with sending this to budget and finance, but I think that the conversation will only help this legislation get better. Not that it's bad. it just needs to have a different tone or a different outcome path than directing to immediately end. I think the chief has made it clear that there are more moving parts to this. This goes back to, why is it trucks? It's fire trucks, it's food trucks, it's always trucks. But we've got to find a way to end brownouts, but we need to do it responsibly. and I'm not sure that the thrust of this gets to that in a proper way. Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Farmer. Council Member K. Thank you, Mayor. I'm going to reiterate a couple of points and then hopefully add a little bit to the discussion. I agree that your leadership has been exemplary. I think you're doing a great job. And I think the administration has had a plan in place, and they've been moving forward on it. And I also believe that this is a policy question. This is something that is squarely in this council's area of responsibility. I'm uncomfortable with having a standard of fire protection and making a decision that we can't meet it for whatever reason. And so I would put ending the brownouts as my top budget priority. I want to say to the community, we're not doing what we need to do here, and we need to change that. And, as Council Member Farmer said, when I look at the language to immediately end the practice, I get uneasy. Because I don't know what that means. So I have two questions that I think would have to be answered before I could support whatever. And they would help me make a decision about the balance between the intent to provide the public with full protection and there are budget restraints. So the first question would be, when will the present plan provide sufficient force to eliminate planned brownouts? That is, we now have in place a system that says we are going to brown out on a regular basis. When will this plan that we have in place end that practice? And secondly, what would it cost in overtime until there is sufficient force? If I know those two things, then I've got a better idea about whether it makes sense and at what pace to proceed. I'll begin with the second question first. The second question, I wouldn't want to throw out a number without sitting with the staff and giving a specific number, but I can have that number to you, whereas the camera's at, I can have the numbers to you by tomorrow morning. Chief Hoskins, if you got that. Okay, so... from where we are as of March the 1st. The second class and what I want to present to you through the LINCS process, which will get our numbers up to around 550, that class would start around October of 2013 and graduate around February of 2014. And that would put us up around 550 firefighters. At that point, we should be able to manage the personnel and end brownouts as we see them forced by circumstance today. Okay, so as I understand it, the present plan, we can project all things being equal by roughly February of 2014. 2014. The policy of planning for brownouts could be eliminated. then the question is between now and then essentially what would it cost in overtime right and that's the second question i couldn't answer that chief hoskins who's probably watching right now um can answer that so we'll have you we can have you a number if that's that's sufficient for for the body okay thank you thank you mayor all right does Does anyone else wish to speak? Council Member Massadi. Thank you, Mayor. It wasn't my intent to surprise anyone. I think this is an issue that everyone has been faced with. I don't know what price you put on someone's life when someone knocks on a fire station having a heart attack and it's closed. Gentleman was lucky that he found assistance someplace else. If he didn't, we would be in a big world of hurt. We're looking at 2014 before we're fully ramped up. Councilman Baird said it, time is of the essence. I don't know how you can explain to me that we're okay for a year if we can't have a station open. Brownout is acceptable. I think I remember reading in the newspaper when all of us were running for office, the question was brownouts and all, I think, down the road, the response was almost unanimous, unacceptable. citizens are paying for this this is a basic service we're obligated to provide it I just feel like that is our job that's what we do we provide basic services for citizens I know it's difficult these times are physically strapped for everyone it's tough to go to the grocery and look at your bill at the end of the day but you certainly want to be safe in your home you want to be safe if you have a health issue you want to know that your community is safe and that's what our job is is to provide those basic services. And as I said, what kind of price do you put on a human life? I don't know if anyone can give me that answer. If you can, please tell me. And I would certainly encourage all of us, of course, as Council Member Farmer says, to work together and to get these solutions. I'm worried about the lag time. We're going to wait until 2014 to get this rectified. That's a year. That's a long time. We've got spring break. We've got summertime coming up, kids out of school. A lot of things can happen, and a lot of things happen out of the ordinary as we read the paper every day that we're not prepared for. So I just feel very strongly that this is a basic service, and I'm not saying it's got to be done tomorrow. I'm just saying that we need to move quickly on it rather than yesterday or waiting for another year before we decide, okay, now we're at full complement, now we're okay. I feel very strongly about this and hope you will support my motion. Commissioner. I just would like to reiterate, I think that through the management team led by Chief Jackson, that they've done a remarkable job. I think this community still is safe. We have endured a more difficult time in the past in terms of numbers. We are recovering, and I think that the system and the plan that Chief Jackson has worked up should go forward. We're really handling things very well. All right, so we have a motion to amend that's on the floor. Does anyone else wish to speak to the motion to amend? Council Member Beard? Well, I just wanted to reiterate something. Part of our problem is communication with our constituents. If I can get Rupp Arena, there are 18,300 voters in 4th District. And if I get them all there, because they don't all read the newspaper and they don't all watch GTV. So I'd like to get them all collected and then bring Chief Jackson in to explain that there is a plan and that there's a timeline that we need to adhere to to get the job done and I think most of those 18,300 people will say, well, isn't that wonderful, and leave. But I can't pay the price to do that, so I need some money, Mayor, to rent Rep Arena. It's the only venue we have. I couldn't do Commonwealth Stadium except the weather is pretty rough. Thank you, Mayor. Council Member Ford. Thank you, Mayor. I will speak to Council Member Farmer's motion to send it to the budget. I think for all practical purposes, we all recognize that this has major financial implications. And so one way or another, we're going to have to discuss this budgetary-wise anyway going into the next fiscal year. There's roughly four months, I believe, left in fiscal year 13. However, I want to speak to, so I wish, and I know that the amendment was tendered in good faith and compromised, but I really see two different issues. I think that the issue of Council Member Massadi's motion is really about policy. Every decision we make, we'll have to figure out the money aspect of it, but this is about policy. And policy is whether or not we condone brownouts. I think it's fair to say that we've all supported them. I've personally supported the administration and Chief Jackson in going with those. Jennifer's right. in the survey that we all took while we were running, I think my response was something to this extent. It basically said, and it was a tightrope that we all had to balance being responsible without trying to be over the top. And I've basically said something that I recognize that brownouts are short-term policy needed to regain stability in the fire department. And I look forward to the time when they can expire. In my opinion, the time is up. I hate to be that frank, but the time is up. And for us to wait another year to ramp up personnel, I don't think it's fair. It boils down to two questions. And Chief has already alluded to this earlier. The question is, can you or will you? Can you first and will you second? Can we end brownouts immediately? And the answer was yes. Throw money out the window for just a second. Operationally, can we end brownouts? can Chief and his leadership team go back and restructure their personnel assignments in short order to end buy-in-outs? And the answer was yes. The second part of that question is, then will we? And I think we should. And to dedicate the necessary resources to do so, Jennifer's resolution, very succinct, it says, by any means appropriate. It didn't say by X means, Y means, or Z means. It gave the administration a clear understanding of where we stand. And I think also it lets you know that we'll be there to support whatever financial application will be needed to put it forth. So I won't be voting for the motion to amend, just because I think the finances are a different issue. I will support the original motion by Ms. Massadi as tendered. Thank you, Mayor. Vice Mayor Gordon. Yes, thank you, Mayor. Council Member Massadi, I wanted to ask you, because you just said that you didn't necessarily mean tomorrow. So where do you stand on going to budget and finance and getting some firm numbers in March? and then moving forward with the plan. I'm just curious because this does say immediately, but you kind of indicated you didn't mean. It does say upon passage, not immediately, so it's upon passage. My concern is that 2014 number. Yes. A year is a long time. I don't think there's anyone on this body, I could be wrong, that feels that it's acceptable. And I agree with you. I think everybody up here doesn't want to see that. But I was trying to get a sense of where you were on the going to budget and finance so we can get some more numbers and what it would take sooner to do this. I think the chief said he could have it tomorrow, the numbers on that. He did say that. I said before, this is just something that I have heard over and over from my constituency, and I cannot give a good answer. And I think we all have gotten the same question. And I do feel it is our obligation, as I mentioned before, to be able to provide this policy, as Council Member Ford said, as his body to make sure that we provide this basic service. And I'm not questioning the chief. I think you've done a remarkable job with the resources you have, or the commissioner. I know you're in a tough spot when it comes to dealing with fiscal restraints. I'm just saying to me that this is a basic service that needs to be provided. The taxpayers are paying for it. Therefore, I think we should fulfill their expectations. Thank you. All right. Does anyone else wish to speak to the motion to amend? All right, then we can take a vote. All in favor of the motion to amend, please indicate by voting yes electronically or no electronically. All right. Is everyone voting? The motion to amend passes. All right. The vote reflects passage on the motion. So that takes us back to the original motion, the motion now as amended. Can we vote on the motion now as amended? It's a motion to approve the motion. Excuse me, Mayor. Could you have someone repeat the motion as amended? All right. My interpretation of the motion as amended is, and Council Member Farmer, help me if I can. I would send this resolution as tendered in the original motion by Council Member Mazzotti to Budget Finance for its consideration in its next meeting. It was what I, was my, was the motion of amendment. All right. All right. So that then is the motion to amend. All in favor of the motion now as amended, please indicate by saying aye. All right. And voting electronically. All right. All right. All right. The motion, has everyone voted? All right. The motion as amended passes. All right. That takes us back. Council Member Sadi, do you have anything more on your report? All right. Just one quick thing. There is the Stonewall Homeowners Neighborhood Association this evening at 7 p.m. Thank you. All right. Council Member Farmer. Mayor, thank you. Just two things. First, I wanted to compliment you on your leadership earlier today on the issue as it relates to the Affordable Housing Trust Fund and the plight of those in our community that are less fortunate than ourselves. And I feel like the commitment that you made through your comments and your actions to follow in the budget will make this day a day of action when some here in the chambers may have felt like we did not do anything today. I felt like it was very important what you said, and the actions of all of us to follow will also be very important on that issue. Secondarily, as someone, like many Lexingtonians, who's interested in the dreaming that we're doing, I've had a hard time trying to get over to the Downtown Arts Center to see the mock-ups of the Town Branch Trail stuff. I went one Sunday, and it was locked. and I went back the following Saturday and I was able to go in and take a quick look before it was time for the center to close. I was wondering, as I recall, those were all supposed to step through the 20th, the 21st, the 22nd. When they come down, could they come over here and be on the mezzanine level for people to see? Because, I mean, not that we get a whole lot more traffic than the Arts Center does, but we get some more. And I'd like to have some time to consider what the other visions were and what the one that was picked. And while that room is a great room, it's just separate from our opportunity, and it's part of the great vision for Lexington I'd like for all of us to be a part of. I think that's what the previous discussion was about, was all of us going someplace together. And sometimes, you know, you're driving the motorcycle, and we're all in the sidecar wondering what's happening. So if you could bring those over, that'd be great. Or the other way around sometimes. Thank you, Mayor. democracy with its capital D. Well, I think Jeff Fugate is perhaps like the chief talked about, Battalion Chief Hoskins. Jeff Fugate may be watching too. So I'm sure he'll get the message within the minute or so if he isn't. Thank you, sir. Yes, sir. That's a good idea. Council Member Henson. Thank you, Mayor. I just have a couple of announcements. Park Activity Board for Valley Park will be February 20th at 530 at the Jesse Higginbotham Neighborhood Center. And on February 26th at 6 o'clock, the Southland Association will have their annual meeting at the Olingas Temple on Southland Drive. Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Hanson. Council Member Lane. Thank you, Mayor. I just wanted to mention that the mayor and I will be at the Heartland Gardens Homeowners Association meeting this evening. And it's sort of interesting because I represent that neighborhood. I'm also a constituent. So, but I'll look forward to seeing you down there. And it's going to be at 7 o'clock in the Heartland Gardens Clubhouse on Heartland Parkway. Thank you. Excuse me, the Heartland Clubhouse on Heartland Parkway. Thank you, Mr. Lane. Council Member Ellinger. Thank you, Mayor. Today in the Budget and Finance Committee, we had a very full agenda, didn't get through all the items that we had hoped to get through, and one of them was the financial efficiency ordinance that Council Member Lane had put into committee. I promised him the time before to put it in, and then when we got it today, we did not get through it with all the agenda. So he says it's a timely issue that he'd like to get done before the next budget and finance committee. So I would request that we put it in the work session, and I've talked to our council administrator, and there's an opening on March 5th in two weeks, and I would request that we put that in there so we can address this issue in a timely manner. So I'd make a motion to that expat. Motion by Council Member Ellinger. Second by Council Member Farmer. Is there any discussion on the motion? All right. Hearing none, then we can take a vote. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed, no. Motion carries. All right. Any other council members with council reports? Nobody signed on, so we can move to mayor's report. There's no mayor's report this week. Is there anyone, Mr. Mundy, signed on to speak to issues not on the agenda? He's shaking his head. No, sir. All right. So then I'll ask for a motion to adjourn. Move adjourned. Motion by Vice Mayor Gordon to adjourn, second by Council Member, who was that? Council Member Clark. Unless there's objection, we will stand adjourned. Thank you all. you