Thank you. guitar solo Board of Adjustment Meeting for March 29, 2013. So first, we have two sets of minutes from January 25, 2013 and February 22, 2013 that are ready to be considered at this time. I move we accept the minutes. Second. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed? Okay. So moved. Next, I'd like to ask anybody who has a cell phone with them to please turn it off or silence it. and anybody who plans to testify please stand you plan to say anything before okay please raise your right hand and affirm that you will tell the truth thank you okay so first what I'd like to do is sound the agenda so first I will ask whether there are any postponements or withdrawals of scheduled items please come forward Good afternoon, board. My name is Chad Dickin. I filed the conditional appeal use to establish a garden center at 3280 Clay's Mill. I would like to ask for a proposed appointment until next month's meeting in order to address the issues that the board has, as well as try to alleviate any concerns that the neighborhood associations have. This item can be found on page 4 of your agenda. It's item C, 2013-13, Chad Dickin. Is there anyone in the audience that came to testify on this matter? Do you all oppose a postponement for a month? We do not. No? Okay. Okay. Any questions, comments from the board? No? Okay. Do we need a motion to postpone? Yes. Okay. Madam moved. I'll second. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed? Okay. We'll see you next month. Thank you. Are there any other items to be postponed or withdrawn? Okay. So I will begin going through the items on the agenda that remain and ask if there's anyone here who is in opposition. So first we have V2013-16 James J. and Sarah S. Maggard. Is the applicant here? Is there anyone here in opposition? V2013-17 Dong. Is anyone here in opposition? Okay. V-2013-18, Amina Shalash. Is anyone here in opposition? C-2012-47, Nadia Ali Benali. Madam Chair, I have some information on this. This is on your agenda today as a part of the six-month review when the board approved this. The staff has checked in and has talked to the applicants. They were on a scheduled vacation this month and will not be here today. The staff has not received any complaints on this item since it was approved by the board originally. If there are no objectors here, the staff sees no reason why the board could either choose to postpone this month or choose to approve this use, and it will get its normal annual review. the board has the authority in either way. Is there anyone here in opposition? Okay, I think when it gets to be time, we should just go ahead and do that matter. CV 2013-15 Universal Homes of Kentucky. It's the applicant here. Is there anyone here in opposition? C-213-14, Brian K. Crowder. Is the applicant here? Is anyone here in opposition? AC-2013-12, Susan Ritchie. Is the applicant here? Is anyone here in opposition? And that concludes the items on the agenda. So we will begin by going through the matters in which the staff has recommended disapproval, then address the ones that have recommended disapproval. So V2013-16, James J. and Sarah S. Maggard, can you come forward? Please state your name for the record. James Maggard. Have you read the staff's recommendation? Yes. Do you have any questions about it? No. Are you willing to abide by the conditions that they have? Almost definitely. Okay. Yes. Do you have any questions for us? No. Anyone have any questions? Madam Chair, I move to approve V. 2013-16 James J. and Sarah S. Maggard's appeal for a variance to reduce the required side yard from 8 feet to 1.5 feet in order to expand an existing garage in a single-family residential high-density apartment historic district overlay zone at 114 Barbary Lane, Council District 3, as recommended by the staff and subject to the condition as recommended by staff. Second. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed? Thank you. Good luck. VC 2013-17, Mr. Dong. Please state your name for the record. Xinchai Dong. And have you read the staff's report? Yes. And do you have any questions about it? No. Are you willing to abide by the conditions that they have recommended? Yes. Okay, thanks. Any questions? Okay. All right, so I'm ready for a motion. I move to approve V2013-17 Jing-Chai. Jing-Chai. Jing-Chai. Jing-Chai. Yeah. As appeal for variances to reduce the required number of parking spaces for a restaurant within the defined infill and redevelopment area by 50% and to increase the allowable 300 foot distance from the parking area to 1,100 feet in a neighborhood business B1 zone at 289 South Limestone as recommended by staff and subject to the two conditions outlined by staff. I'll second. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed? Good luck. Thank you. V 2013-18 Amina Shalash. Please state your name for the record. Amina Shalash. And have you read the staff's report? I have. And do you have any questions about it? No, ma'am. Are you willing to abide by the conditions they've recommended? Okay. Does anybody on the board or staff have any questions? If someone would like to make a motion. Madam Chair, I move to approve the 2013-18 Amina Salash appeal for a variance to reduce the required 30-foot setback along Alumni Drive to 20 feet in order to construct an in-ground pool in a single-family residential zone at 1921 Long Pond Walk as recommended by staff and subject to the three conditions as recommended by staff. Second. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed? Good luck. Okay, now moving on to conditional use appeals. I guess we could just go ahead with the C-2012-47. As I had mentioned earlier, we did check, and the staff has not received any complaints on Ms. Benally's use of tutoring for the Arabic language on the property at 368 Shoreside Drive. The staff is obviously recommending continuance of their approved use and sees no reason to object to it. The applicant says that they are not able to be here today because they had a scheduled vacation. And I did tell them that we would relay this information to the board, and the board could choose on whether to go ahead and act on it today or whether to postpone it. Or if there was any opposition here today, obviously we would have recommended postponement of this item. Madam Chair, I'd make a motion if you'd like one. I move that we approve C2012-47 Nadia Ali Benali's request for a six-month review of a conditional use permit approved in August 2012 for home occupation tutoring in a high-density apartment zone at 368 Shoreside Drive in that there is no complaints and no opposition. I do have a question of the staff, I guess. How often are we going to review this? Now it will, based on the motion that you're making today, the staff would anticipate that this would be on the normal annual review of all conditional uses that our zoning enforcement staff looks at. So it will be on our docket again in a year? No, it would not be backup for a docket unless there was a reason during our annual visit to bring this item back before you. Items like this that are subject to an annual review stay on your docket, in effect. Yes, sir. As long as the conditional use is available. Yes. Like all conditional uses subject to annual review? Yes, sir. All conditional uses are subject to an annual review, and Mr. Marks and his zoning enforcement section, they look into those. And we have one zoning enforcement officer in particular that goes around looking at those as a part of her normal daily duties. In that case, I'll second the motion. Thank you. All those in favor, please say aye. All those opposed? Okay, the next item on the agenda is CV 2013-15 Universal Homes of Kentucky. Madam Chair, as the applicants are coming forward, I forgot to mention at the beginning of the meeting, but all of the required neighborhood notices and signage were put up on all of the applications this month. Thank you. My name is Tom Hatfield. I'm with the EA Partners, and I'm here on behalf of Universal Homes. We're in agreement with all the conditions and be glad to try to answer any questions that you might have. I actually have one question on this. It says that there'll be no more than two employees on the maximum shift. Is that correct? I've got the representatives of Universal Homes. This is David Denham. you can probably answer that better than I can. Details on the operation. Hello, I'm David Denham, hometown manor. That is correct. We are a 15 unit facility and in assisted living, you have to meet the criteria to be there. And that's basically mobility and safety concerns. So So the maximum during the day would be two employees. The staff would like to point out one technical issue on this. The original request also included a floodplain setback variance to five feet. The applicants have amended their site plan and now only request an amendment to 10 feet, and the staff is recommending approval of the variance from 25 feet to 10 feet. And that's in the report here. And then my understanding, this is similar to another case we heard where if this portion has all been completed and if this portion went up, it would get the approval. It's just that it's part of a larger project. Is that correct? That is correct. One of the things, and staff once again points out, this building is not in the floodplain today and will not be in the floodplain. We were talking about the floodplain setback, which is required from 25 feet. The current regulatory maps have a larger setback than the approved but not completed new floodplain that has been approved via a conditional letter of map revision through FEMA. All of the improvements on this property are done, and therefore it is actually really the best available information for what the true flooding is on this property is gleamed from that permit. And the items that are left to be done are not on this subject property. They are further downstream, and they will not have a negative effect on this property whenever they are completed. But until that letter of map revision is finalized, from a regulatory standpoint, there is still a setback on this one. When the applicant's revised plan, once the letter of map revision is finalized, this building will actually be 30 feet away from the floodplain and a variance would not be necessary. Mr. Tom Hatfield is a professional engineer for the project. I'm sure that he could also answer any questions that you have about the floodplain. I have a question going back to the use. You said there's 14 rooms, single occupancy, or did I misunderstand? Is it dual occupancy? There's 15 rooms. And they might be double occupancy. Married couples. It's an assisted living facility, so you could have married couples on the facility, but typically there's one-bedroom apartments. Well, I'm just curious, as Kathy was, about two staff members. when it looks like you might be providing quite a bit of service, meals, laundry, room cleaning? Would there be more people there during the day? Or are meals catered? Is there a dining room? I have three locations, and our maximum is 15 units in Georgetown. These individuals are fairly independent. that we're there to help with what we call their ADLs, activities daily living. To meet the criteria to be there, the Department for Aging and Independent Living says you have to be mobile because you can't be a safety concern to yourself or others. Having said that, they do need help periodically with those activities, but two individuals during the day is very sufficient to cover any needs that they would have. So this is, in fact, independent living, not assisted living? No, this is assisted living. The independent living is not regulated through the state, and then assisted living would be the next step, and then skilled care would be the third step. It's my understanding you needed more people than that, but you're the expert, not I. The Department for Aging and Independent Living does not specify number of employees per number of residents. But you are regulated by the state and there probably are annual inspections and we are certified and yes there are biannual inspections. Thank you. You're welcome. Are there any other questions? If anyone wants to make a motion. Madam Chairman, I move that we approve the appeal of Universal Homes of Kentucky CV 2013-15 for a conditional use permit to establish an assisted living facility and a variance to reduce the required 25-foot setback from a floodplain to 10 feet in a professional office zone at 2141 Executive Drive for the reasons stated and with the six conditions recommended by staff. Second. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed? Good luck. Thank you. I'd now like to call C2013-14 Brian Crowder. Brian Crowder here. And have you read the staff's report? I did. Do you have any questions? I have a question, maybe some clarification. Item 3 on the recommendations, pawning of vehicles shall not take place. I understand that there is no place to store a vehicle there. I would like the opportunity to make loans against them and store them off-site with the permission and understanding of the customer. But this doesn't say that. It just says don't do it. The planning staff would like to ask, Mr. Marks, if on item number three, if the first phrase, the pawning of vehicles shall not take place at the subject property, would that cause you any enforcement problems? If it was still left, that condition number three would just say vehicles pawned, other vehicles, pond, shall not be stored on the site. Well, let's try this. Maybe we could just say, pond vehicles shall not be stored at the subject property. That's fine. That would account for pond vehicles from that location or any other location. It's been my experience that we might do one every three months. in the seven years prior that I ran a pawn shop, that I owned a pawn shop, we might do three a year. The staff really had two primary concerns with this, is that technically a vehicular storage yard where you would just store a licensed vehicle is not a principal permitted use in the B3 zone, and also with the very small size of this lot and the configuration of the parking, that we felt that if vehicles were pawned on this site, then it could very easily eat up the available parking for this, and it could become a problem. I don't think that the Division of Planning staff, if Mr. Marks is okay with this, would have any problem with the pawned vehicles shall not be stored on the site. I think that would get at our primary concerns on this property. No argument that there's no room to put them there. It wouldn't be a good idea. I have no argument on that, but I would like the option to store them elsewhere if we do make a loan against them. The application as it was submitted was devoid of any information from the applicant on whether they would or would not store or pawn vehicles on this one, And so the staff took a, we took the best staff at that condition as we could to deal with it. As I understand it, the concern of the staff is flooding this space with stored vehicles, and it's a space issue. Do you understand that? I understand. And it's also, I don't think it's a good thing for the security of the vehicles either. It would not be a good idea. I'm not arguing that it's not a good idea to store them there. well do you see the language that the staff has recommended on number three the revised language up on the screen i'll read it to you it says it says pond vehicles shall not be stored on site does that is that an acceptable condition for you sir and if i wasn't going to die on this issue anyway i would just I understand. Thank you. Are there any other questions? Do you have any other questions? No, ma'am. Does anyone else have any questions? Madam Chair, I move that we approve C2013-14 Brian Chowder's appeal for conditional use permit to operate a pawn shop in a highway service business zone at 1206 New Circle Road. based on the staff's recommendation and subject to the six conditions with the change made to the third condition stating that Pond vehicles shall not be stored on site. I'll second. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed? Okay. Good luck. Thank you kindly. Before we move to the last thing I just realized was the universal homes, there was an amendment. Was the language we used for the approval correct? Yes. Okay. All right. And now for item AC 2013-12, Susan Ritchie. Please state your name for the record. Susan Ritchie. And have you read this staff's report? Yes, I have. And are you willing to abide by the conditions that the staff recommended? Yes, I am. And do you have any questions? No, I don't. We do have two letters received. I've got two copies of them. I have a question of the applicant while they're reading the letters. I'm just curious. Hedgehogs, really? I mean, what do you do with hedgehogs? Well, they make fine pets. Our family happens to be very allergic to animals, and my daughter attained a hedgehog about a year and a half ago, and they're hyperallergenic, so they benefit the home that is allergic to most pets. I know my children have always wanted hamster and guinea pigs and such, and we've tried them, but we end up being allergic to them. So this is a nice benefit for those families that can't have those. How big is a hedgehog? How big do they get? We have one right now that tops almost two pounds. So size-wise, about this big. Softball size? Yeah. I have an email that we're looking at. This woman states that safety and possible health-related issues that may arise as a result of hedgehogs coming into contact with humans, fungal skin infections that may be passed from hedgehogs to humans in neighborhood dogs and cats. Could you speak to that concern? Sure, absolutely. I understand her concern. I'm a mother with children, so I have those concerns as well. We work closely with the USDA and the Animal Welfare Act, and according to all their sanitary conditions, we have reviewed them, and they came and they made an inspection on the way we dispose of sanitary, the way that we have it set up, and they gave us all thumbs up, gave us a wonderful inspection review, and we passed. So I feel confident that this could make her feel a lot better, that we're doing this legitimately. Have you spoken with your neighbors? I don't know about this. I don't know this person personally, so I haven't spoken with them. We've also had a physician come to our facility, a veterinarian, and he approved the conditions. He even wrote that the environment is clean, very organized, and above satisfactory conditions. And I have a letter stating that if you would like me to approach. How would a hedgehog do in the wild in Kentucky? Would it flourish? No, it would not. Would it perish? It would not. And these are not wild hedgehogs. These are domesticated, so there is a big difference. Like a hedgehog, a domestic hedgehog would not be able to hibernate, but a wild one would. So the conditions do need to be where the person who attains them has to keep them in a room temperature, not below 75 degrees. So they wouldn't survive the winter outside? Absolutely not. And are there diseases that you know of that could be passed on to domesticated cats and dogs? No, I do not know of any. Ms. Ritchie, how many hedgehogs do you plan to raise? curious about the size of this operation okay well at present we have wrote this down I can't find it it's less than 30 that we have right now that would include five males and the rest are females I we don't want to get big that's too much because I work this and I don't want it to get big you maybe saw the pictures of the room in the house it wouldn't be able to hold a lot I'm not interested in money, lots of money. I don't want to be greedy in this. I want to give the hedgehogs the best care and treatment, and I'm not sure that would be possible if you had a lot of them. At present, we sell about four a month, so that's real low, real low end. How long have you been doing this? Well, my daughter started it last year in March, and because of her age, she was under 18 at the time. She turned 18 in November. I took it over from there because it was too much for her to handle to become USDA certified and all that needs to be done. So why is it you're coming before us now? Well, to get a conditional use permit. Yeah, you've been doing it for a year. What happened that brought you here? Oh, okay. We're totally legitimate. We have a sales tax number. We went through a tax ban this year, and when we handed him everything, he handed us back a form to get licensed, and we didn't know anything about getting city licensed. So as soon as I got that, I read that, and I did what it asked me to do. So you didn't know about the need for a conditional use permit? Not at all. What is a hedgehog worth, or do you sell breeding payers? No, I don't sell breeding pairs. I don't actually condone breeding for people that buy from me. We usually sell one per customer. You talked about the price of them. It really is a supply and demand thing. Right now, we currently sell them at $300 a piece. That could go down once the demand raises. Did I say that right? The other way around. Who regulates your business? The United States Department of Agriculture. Do they conduct inspections or do you have to submit reports to them or anything like that? They do annual inspections. They just did one on March 18th. They did a pre-licensed inspection and they said, I am ready to be licensed. They do one annually, and the veterinarian is going to do one every six months. And I have that all here if you'd like me to approach with any of that information. Jimmy, I read the staff report, and it seems like you struggled to make sure that this wouldn't be precedent-setting and because of the differences between hedgehogs and dogs, you finally thought they weren't really comparable. But can you imagine someone with a different species that they'd want to raise? Like, what about cats? I never hear about cat breeders, but cats could be maintained inside, and they're slightly larger, and would this be a precedent for people to breed cats in residential neighborhoods? I believe that the way that the Division of Planning looked at this request whenever she came in, that's the reason why it is coming before you first as an administrative appeal to determine that her breeding operation is allowable as a home occupation. The Division of Planning, as we were looking through this, we did see a material difference between indoor animals and outdoor animals. I can see that if somebody were to bring in an animal that was extremely similar to a hedgehog, that if you make the decision today that, yes, this is an allowable home occupation, then we would issue the referral form for them to come before you and look at their particular home occupation. where the staff definitely feels that where a dividing line is, commercial kennels, which are defined as the commercial breeding and keeping of dogs, that really has that outdoor component where you can become a nuisance to the surrounding neighborhood. And a commercial kennel is definitely inappropriate for use as a home occupation. So in a sense, it is precedent setting on the decision on the administrative appeal portion of this, that if we had another animal that was substantially similar to the hedgehog, we would issue the Board of Adjustment referral and allow them to come forward to you as a home occupation. if if today you decide that the breeding of any animals is not appropriate to go forward as a home occupation then obviously we would not issue any referrals for home occupations at that point if somebody else wanted to do it they could always do another administrative appeal to the board any decision that the staff makes but we will based off of the decisions that you make today on that administrative appeal, we will then look at those facts of this case and apply them appropriately with future applications. I don't anticipate that breeding hedgehogs is going to take over any neighborhood or anything. I'm just kind of curious. During the conversation, it got me to thinking if somebody wanted to breed turtles, for example. Well, one of the things that is a distinction for us in the fact that she has been doing the breeding, any property owner who are keeping pets, they're going to be allowed to do that. But the essence of this application is that they're wanting to make that step from being pet owner to operating a breeding operation, which is, we think, an allowable home occupation because of the small size and quiet nature and indoor nature of the type of animal that she is breeding. So this is the first time that this has come up for the breeding of any animal, including fish. There are no commercial breeding operations in Fayette County that you know of right now in residential zones. The staff could not put our finger on any other application that's become before you that we could make a determination on, hence the reason why it's first an administrative appeal and then the conditional use request. Closest case we could find was one, I think, over 10 years ago for a home occupation for a citizen that wanted to rescue puppies on a short-term basis. And the board did approve that, and it was obviously found to be different than a kennel, given the facts of that case. But that was the closest one we could find. And no breeding was involved in that? That's correct. I'm just wondering about 30-pound rabbits and where this could go. I believe the staff would apply the same logic that we did with this one. If any type of animal were in need of an outdoor area to handle their breeding operation, I believe that the staff would look at that and say that that was substantially similar to a kennel. And those would be the facts of those kinds of cases as they come forward. So your bright line basically is indoor versus outdoor. If it was outdoor, it would not be appropriate if it's indoor. It is. I mean, I'm looking for some guidance. That's half the equation. I think the other important half to the equation that the staff reviewed was finding out whether there were any health department regulations for this particular animal. and I think regardless of the animal, that would be something the staff would ordinarily do and want to report to the board what applicable regulations were in place. Okay, and you said this animal is hypo? Hyperallergenic. Hyper or hypo? Hypoallergenic, hypo. And if I'd like to add something, hedgehogs are capable of being maintained continuously in cages. They do not produce noise, and to ensure, maintain a clean and healthful condition at all times with no odor, I properly dispose of animal waste in a sanitary manner according to the regulations and standards set up by the USDA and the Animal Welfare Act. Just my two cents there. I have another question for staff. When you look at the definition, home occupation is a gainful occupation of profession, so presumably she's looking for this as a gainful occupation. Then it goes on and it has a bunch of examples, and this is clearly completely different from any of those other examples. Besides the rescuing dogs, are there other home occupations that have been approved that are very different from the examples listed here? The answer is yes, but I wasn't expecting that question, so give me just a moment to – I'm trying to – obviously, I've only been doing this for a year, but I – or this particular job for a year, so I'm – I'm looking over Mr. Marks, and we're at a loss. Okay, and what was the question again? I'm sorry. If there are other home occupations that the board has approved that are completely different than the examples listed in the ordinance. So, I mean, as a matter of how you read the ordinance, one could read, this could be a gainful occupation. Presumably you're going to make money from it, so it's gainful. But then the ordinance lists a bunch of examples, and this is nothing at all like any of the examples. Well, I'm not sure how to answer that, but I'll try to answer something. You know, we don't bring in hedgehogs and store them to sell. Like if you were to order a product, the only product we sell is what we produce on site. Does that help answer that? No, I was asking, it's a question really for the staff. I wouldn't expect you to know what other home occupations have been approved. I'll try. The only thing I might offer is the second part of that question is, is it similar to the ones that are specifically listed as not allowed? And it's not really, so. The staff was looking at this. Also, her proposed there are eight conditions that all home occupations need to comply with. And the staff, the applicant has proven that she can meet all eight of those conditions. As the staff, this was one of the toughest staff reports for the staff to write. If you can read between the lines, it's kind of a razor's edge on that. and we came down on the side of the applicant's rights as a property owner, that she didn't have any, it was not similar to any of the uses that are specifically not allowed. It was, in essence, somewhat similar to the ones that are allowed. We didn't say it this way in the staff report, but legally the hedgehogs are property. and she is producing property for sale. In that sense, it is similar to somebody who is creating something in their home as a home occupation for sale to the public. In this particular case, that product is a living creature in the breeding operation. And with those close similarities to a commercial kennel, That's why the staff spent a lot of time looking at what we called the health department, we called the animal control office. We were looking for to make sure that we were making a good judgment in our recommendation to you today. I'm thinking, what other animals might someone want to raise in their homes? And the snakes just came to mind. and I am scared to death of snakes and I would be very upset if I had a neighbor who was doing that. So, I mean, how do we draw the line here? One thing that in our talking with the Fayette County Animal Control Office, our regulations there are related to warm-blooded animals, mammals and birds, I believe that if someone were to bring in a fish or a reptile breeding program and ask for a home occupation, that would be a material difference that, once again, we would review in detail before we made a recommendation to you. So I do not think that your approval today of the hedgehog breedings, a mammal, would be substantially similar to a reptile breeding operation. I believe that the staff would want to look at that in detail before we made a recommendation one way or the other. Okay. So another question. The cats and the rabbits. Cats and rabbits could survive outside. I mean, say that they should get out of the house and they get out and they could live out and reproduce. So is this kind of a drawing line? Whereas the hedgehogs cannot, we've been told, cannot survive outside. Correct. They cannot survive for longer than four hours in a temperature less than 70 degrees. That's what the USDA covered as well with me when they did an inspection on the 18th of March. If the board were to approve this application today and someone brought in a cat breeding operation, one of the things that the staff would, the first question that we would ask, is this completely indoors? Is it contained within one bedroom of their home, such as the applicant? Is it cats are one of the things that can go outdoors or could be indoors? That's one of the things. Those are the types of questions that we would ask to determine how similar the next person's operation is to the one that's before you today. And at either rate, at any rate, the home occupation is always going to be a conditional use. And so it's a matter of whether they're coming before the board with a conditional use home occupation or whether they're coming back for the board to make the case that they should be allowed as a home occupation and then request approval of their specific home occupation as the applicant is doing today. Are there any other questions or comments? Mr. Sidley did have one section that we could offer for the board if it would make you more comfortable today. Under the staff recommendation for approval of the administrative appeal, We can put it on the overhead. We could clarify in the findings of approval of this application, should the board do so, that the hedgehog operation that you are seeing today would allow them to be bred completely indoors, unlike rabbits, cats, and reptiles, thereby clarifying in the findings for approval that those types of animals would definitely not be setting a precedent for those particular types of animals talked about today. Actually, Jimmy, I think you could raise rabbits, cats, and reptiles completely indoors. I think what we were trying to say is that by adding that language there today, we might work on the – the point would be is that if you wanted to approve this application but limit it to simply hedgehogs, that would be – that's what we were trying to get at with the revision. If you – that's the way the board is leading. and we'll try and wordsmith this for you. I think it needs some wordsmithing. I'm persuaded that hedgehogs are benign. If they're good enough for Lewis Carroll, I think they're good enough for the city, and they're good enough for raising indoors and residential areas. I am concerned that we have a bright line between hedgehogs and others, And I'm concerned about, I guess, special legislation. I think there needs to be a bright line. I don't know where that line is. The bright line on the three that are mentioned on the staff report, rabbits and cats can be raised completely indoors, but oftentimes they are raised a combination of indoors and outdoor pens. And cats are one of those things that, you know, sometimes people let them out and sometimes they don't. With the rabbits, oftentimes the people that I know that have had rabbits that have bred them have had outdoor areas. And as far as the reptiles, any type of reptiles do not fall under the warm-blooded regulations of the Fayette County Animal Control, and therefore that would require some additional review before we would be apt to say one way or the other. I guess I keep going back to the fact that they cannot survive outside. And I don't know if that's some wordsmithing that we add. if the board or Mr. Glover thinks that that, or the staff, or how can we better define this? Or I don't know if we can, you know, I need your guidance here about the fact that they can't survive outside whereas cats and dogs, I mean cats and rabbits can. I think that's kind of my point, The fact that they can only live inside. And, you know, only survive in 70. Yeah, and they can't even survive in temperatures over 85 degrees for a certain amount of time. I don't know. Let me ask you this. Trying to answer this question is you made a distinction, Ms. Ritchie, between the hedgehogs that you're raising and hedgehogs in the wild is there some way that we could approve your application for domestic hedgehogs without approving an application for wild hedgehogs for example i mean i i mean i we may be cutting it pretty fine here but i understand the staff's concern the board's concern about this is is is the we we don't want to set a precedent that will be a foothold for the next application for somebody raising a bunnies inside i understand that concern i'm equally concerned about that i'm looking for ways to grant the grant your application without opening ourselves up to other applications for for species that are considered pests. I mean, I wouldn't want to consider an application for somebody who wanted to raise rats in their home, but I can see how somebody could make a legal argument that if you can approve hedgehogs, why don't you approve rat breeding operations? So I'm open to suggestions. Yes, sir. Sorry, I didn't want to interrupt you, sir. No, that's all right. Please approach. This is my husband, Gary Ritchie. Sure. Just to try to tip the scales a little bit if it's okay. If you can see how many applicants you're getting, it's 2013. There's just not many people putting applications in to raise animals. And one thing, just in principle, to try to tip the scales, I went to my CPA or my tax man, and he informed me of this information which he spoke of. And this is trying to make righteous judgment. This is trying to be fair and be honest with our children, how to raise them, that you do what the city says, you do what the USDA says, and to teach our children very fairly of doing right. And so that's why we're here, and that's probably why you don't see a lot of people here, in all fairness. he said one 10 years ago. I mean, that's because the people who do it probably don't run down and try to get permission or approval just for what that's worth. I'm just trying to give us a little tidbit that we're just trying to do the right thing and be fair. If you could somehow make it to where it would, you know, help our children, I appreciate it, you know, help our family. And to be right, we don't want to do anything wrong. We really try to do the fairness, and she hadn't even mentioned to you, We don't even sell the animals at our home at our doorstep. There's no traffic problem. We do it at another location. And it's just such a clean. She works so hard, and she does such a good job. The USDA was blown away. He said, I've never seen nothing like this. How clean. He said, I have. There's no odor. It's just how good this woman works to keep these animals. And my children, the other three, nurturing the animals. They don't treat it like it's a spring house of throwing babies out. They really take care of these animals tremendously. And the more you play with them, the more you're going to get because they're going to have a loving nature. And that's just to try to skip the scales a little bit. No strong rebuttal other than just putting to you that we're just trying to do things right. Mr. Ritchie, I'm right here. I appreciate what you're saying. And I think one of the reasons there haven't been a lot of applications for raising animals in the residential zone is because building inspection tells them and staff tells them that it's simply not allowed. You folks have taken it to the next level, and I commend you for that. And it's a special situation, granted. But I could see that there would be a lot of applications for people wanting to raise animals in their homes because it's a way to make money, and everybody's looking for ways to make money in this economy. So I think this could actually open an avenue for a lot of hope that it could turn into a problem. Could I mention something real quick? I think it would be good the city's made a recommendation that a program of veterinary care shall be set in place for this use to ensure safe and responsible animal husbandry practices. getting a veterinarian to come to the home and to adopt this husbandry as their own I follow his instructions it's very hard to do you have to pass that veterinarian's inspection also to have them be USDA certified I can't tell you how how tedious that process is it's very tedious And I happen to be a perfectionist and am very into what I do. It's not very easy to blow away the USDA, especially on the first inspection. They give you three tries, and then you're out for six months, and then they'll give you six months to fix everything. I got approved on the first inspection. And those aren't easy to do. If those things can be mandatory for the future people wanting to put an application in, I think that will weed out a lot of applications for this. I think that you shouldn't take this personally if the decision doesn't go in your favor. We're trying to consider what's good for the community as a whole. Absolutely. I understand. I'm wondering if we can include something in the reasons for approving this request that it can be regulated, it is regulated by somebody. It seems like that's one of the justifications that you're giving is that there's some outside agency that regulates it, whereas, you know, the USDA, and you indicated the USDA wouldn't regulate snakes. Is that true? I do not know about the USDA. I checked with our local Fayette Animal Control. Snakes and other items, cold-blooded animals, animals are regulated through the state under the wildlife regulation laws on that. That's what I learned. I did not call up the state and do any other further research into snakes because I was concentrating on the application at hand. Once I got that answer, I kind of stopped that line of investigation. The staff would author, based off of the evidence that was offered at today's hearing, some additional to reword our findings for approval on the administrative appeals so that that would allow domesticated hedgehogs to be bred and raised completely indoors and that they cannot survive outdoors in the wild. That could be a new setting for whether the breeding of such an animal. The other thing is that should another case come along and an applicant wishes to apply for you, they would have the exact same rights. Even if the staff disagreed that the next breeder of any animal, if they came along and the staff disagreed that it should be allowed as a home occupation, the applicant would still have the ability to file an administrative review with the Board of Adjustment and request that make their case that they are a home occupation. in a way this is precedent setting and in a way it's not. Does that make sense? Do we need to come back and look at this in six months or a year? Would that help us, help them? Actually, Tommy, I'm convinced that this operation would be benign in the neighborhood. I don't see a problem with what they're asking to do. I don't either. I'm just trying to. I'm just worried about putting it on the books. Yeah, I understand. My thoughts are, and I share your concern about precedent setting, almost everything we do, almost every conditional use that we grant is potentially precedent setting. So, you know, life's a risk. I'm willing to serve and review other applications, and I think I'm comforted by the language that you have, the printed language and also the language that you've added, and the testimony by the applicant. I'm prepared to vote. Any other questions or comments? Is everybody else ready to vote? Is everybody ready to make a motion? I'll make a motion. Madam Chairman, I move that we appeal AC 2013-12, Susan Ritchie's appeal, for an administrative review to determine that breeding and raising hedgehogs should be considered a home occupation. if determined as such a conditional use permit for a home occupation of single family residence zone at 1589 Springfield Drive which is as I understand it subject to the zoning ordinance listed there on the staff report for the reasons set forth in the report and subject to the conditions as amended by staff. Do I leave anything out? The reasons were amended, not the... The reasons were amended, sorry. I'd like to say that I'm going to vote for this, and I'll second the motion because I think there's been a lot of thought put into it, And if there's any harm that comes from it, I think it'll be small. So I second the motion. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. All those opposed. Good luck. Thank you. God bless you. I appreciate it. Thank you all. God bless you. Thank you, Lord. I'd like to give kudos to God. I give all credit to him for all my talent, and I appreciate him today. And I thank you for listening to me. God bless you all. Thank you. Are there any items that a board member wishes to present to be heard at this time? Staff? Madam Chair, we would just note that Mr. Neal is here for traffic engineering today. Mr. Gallimore is here today, but he will not be with us any longer after today. He is retiring and today is his last day, but we certainly wanted to let the board know that and say from the planning perspective that we'll miss his contributions to your meetings. Wish him well in retirement. Thank you. All right. I now move, pursuant to KRS 61.8101C, to go into closed session for the purposes of discussing pending litigation. Thank you. guitar solo guitar solo Thank you. guitar solo Thank you. I'm going to go to the next video. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to go to the next video. Thank you. 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Thank you. guitar solo guitar solo guitar solo guitar solo guitar solo guitar solo guitar solo Thank you. guitar solo Thank you. so Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to go to the next video. Thank you. Okay, we'll now resume the Board of Adjustment meeting for March 29th. Madam Chairman, I have a motion to make. I move that we authorize the Department of Law to enter into an agreed order in Fayette Circuit Court Case No. 12, CI-3113, that's the community in lawsuit in Fayette Circuit, to extend the revocation date of the conditional use permit for property at 824 Winchester Road for 120 additional days from the original deadline of April 8th with specific conditions of due diligent efforts being made to locate and move to a permanent location and identify temporary locations if a permanent move cannot be made in the 120-day extension. I'll second. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. All opposed? Nay. Thank you. What was the outcome of the vote? 4-2. Okay. Are there any further matters for the board? Our next meeting will be April 26, 2013. There will be no further business. We are now adjourned. Thank you.