Music You're watching GTV3 The End Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Go ahead and start the meeting. This is the August 13, 2013 Public Safety Committee meeting. And welcome back from our wonderful recess. And I want to thank Jonathan Hollinger for staffing this committee meeting while Jennifer Benningfield is out on leave. And we'll be back soon, I think. But Jonathan, thank you. And first on our agenda is approval of the summary. So moved. Second. Is there any discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Thank you. Next on the agenda is the tenant transition and household disposal placed in committee by Council Member Ford. Council Member Ford, do you want to speak? Yes, Madam Chair. Thank you. And good afternoon to committee members. I'm not a member of public safety, but I'm glad to be here to introduce this issue. the tenant transition and household disposal ordinance. Council Member Henson, before I get started, I also want to echo and thank the support of Jonathan Hollinger and Council Member Clark's office, who has been a great help, and my legislative aide, Tiffany Tatum. I'm going to also take this time to introduce some folks who will be able to speak to the committee this afternoon from the administration, Mike Sanner, an attorney in the law department, David Jarvis in code enforcement, and Steve Feast from Waste Management hopefully will be here to join us soon. You guys probably do recall the issue back in February that led me to introduce this item in committee. And you do have the memo there on February 11th. But the contents of what's in the packet are also on page 8, a summary, which I think will hopefully just get the conversation started today and allow Council and the committee to ask the appropriate questions. On pages 9 and 10 are sections of the Code of Ordinance. Chapter 16 of our Code of Ordinance basically pertains to waste management. And then we have Section 1610, which talks about schedules, and then Section 1614, special collections. Attorney Santa will be able to guide us on other aspects of Chapter 16 of the ordinance if needed, but just for this discussion is there. And then we also have the newspaper article and photos that may be familiar to you. Going back to my memo on February 11th, the second paragraph I indicated what my objective was in studying this issue, and that's to eradicate the presence and the proliferation of uncontained household waste and our bulk household furnishings at the street curb and our right-of-way of our residential neighborhoods. At the bottom of the page, I listed four items that I wanted us to address, and I won't recite those because they're there in your packet. But of those four issues, I personally, with the assistance of those that we've studied with, I'm comfortable with three of those, number one, number two, and number four. Per my examination and learning of the facts, I think we've addressed each of those, and I'll talk about those in just a second. So it leaves number three, which is our local government's local guidelines for curbside collection and the disposal of household waste and bulk items. That's what we're really going to focus on today, which is bulk items disposal. As I conclude, if you'll just go to page 8, I'm going to briefly go down these summary of facts. I've termed this, for lay terms, the move-out ordinance, because there are factors that lead to how items get to the curbside. They could be from the eviction of a lease tenant. It could be from the eviction of an owner-occupied foreclosure. It could be just a voluntary move, somebody relocating, or it could be an occupant of a dwelling who remains there but just needs to clean out things to the curb. The definitions are set out, move out, and the evictions, you guys list those there. Madam Chair, if it's okay, I'll just take another minute to give the summary of facts. LFUCG, we provide waste disposal services, including landfill, bound waste, recycling, yard waste, bulky item pickup, and special collections. And put a pin in the bulky item pickup and special collections. What we do not do, however, from a service standpoint, the government is not responsible for providing household storage, particularly in the case of evictions and foreclosure evictions. The public right-of-way is not a temporary storage site as a result of things that come to the curb from those evictions. Property removed as a result of evictions is placed in the right-of-way because the former tenant is not allowed to return to the property. I'll summarize what we've learned here. We were fortunate to have a few roundtables to discuss this issue in anticipation of this meeting. And officials from the constable's office and landlords are represented. And what they explained to us is that the constable's role is not to remove items from an evicted household. Their role is to carry forth a court order that allows that landlord to regain custody and occupancy of their dwelling. And the constable's role is simply to officiate the orderly process to allow the landlord back on the property and the removal of any household items, if any, that the constable has to remove. To the benefit of the general public, the constable does take the role of confiscating any hazardous materials that may be found once they arrive to perform an eviction. If there's hazardous chemicals, if there are weapons, if there are computer hard drives, which we may not know what's on it, they'll confiscate those. It seemed to me that we had a pretty good consensus of the constable's office and the landlords and a better understanding of their role in the case of evictions. And we've determined that it does not conflict with the Landlord-Tenant Act, which of course is a state statute, and our local laws could not trump. The last item in the summary of facts is really what I hope to implore to the committee. and it's that absolute and exclusive application of once a week collection of bulky items, which right now the ordinance states will only be collected on your regular collection day, it conflicts with the special collection provisions of Section 1614 in the Code of Ordinances. My recommendations to the committee is that we do recognize now that a few years ago, maybe a decade ago that our government transitioned from twice a week pickup to once a week pickup. And that once a week pickup allows any household to have any service pickup that they need. If it's recyclable, if it's yard waste, if it's disposable goods, if it's bulk items, they can simply bring those to the curb, they don't need to call, and we will retrieve those items. But I contend that once a week bulky pickup is impractical. Because what we've learned is that folks move in this community every day. And there may be circumstances when in a voluntary move, the once a week set out does not meet the demands of the schedules of those folks who are required to be relocated. We think 72 hours is a reasonable time frame to adopt to the special collections. We would ask in those cases of special collections that citizens would call in, and if not, the citizens that call in, our government employees, such as code enforcement, folks that are out in the field, would call those in. And then lastly, Madam Chair, I know that the committee had just approved in February the 24-hour emergency abatement that code enforcement is using, and we find that to be satisfactory as it stands right now. But their role primarily with the 24-hour abatement is to address issues that are of imminent and immediate public safety. So with that, I will yield back to you, Madam Chair, and if there are any questions, I'll be glad to try to answer those on behalf of the work group. And then we also have the folks from government that can answer questions as well. Thank you, Council Member Ford. Do any Council Members have any questions? And Council Member Akers, thank you. Thank you, Chair. So, Council Member Ford, I certainly appreciate this effort and see this all the time throughout Lexington. Someone gets evicted and the street and curb is piled with their belongings. And so I was hoping to see or thought that perhaps we could, I mean, if you, there are ways that are required where you have to rent a dumpster if you're going to empty your house or remodel your home and that sort of thing. So I thought that maybe we might see some recommendation where landlords are required to rent a dumpster in order to empty, so that we don't have this sitting around even for 72 hours. So I just wondered if you might speak to that, if you considered that. I will, and I'm going to, in my responses, try to speak briefly to the question that you guys raised. And the reason I say that is that what I've learned in the six months since I referred this item to committee is that this is vast and dynamic, all the issues that pertain to this issue. What we've learned is in the case of an eviction, what we have here really is a distinction between disposal and relocation of household goods. The landlords and the constables have told us that their role in an eviction is not to dispose of the salvageable household contents of that unit. those items still belong to the evicted party. There was a conflict or confusion in regards to what the constable and what the landlord's role is. And that role is to provide a reasonable time for those folks to come retrieve their items. And what we're understanding is that through a legal eviction there are many steps in the way and hopefully that the evicted party has had opportunity or noticed that they'll have to be moving here pretty soon. But anyway, so the constable shows up, they have a court order, they have the right to regain that custody of that household, that dwelling. It's the landlord who is going to hire or have the folks to relocate the items from inside the dwelling. And typically the practice is that they will bring it to the right-of-way. When we first studied this issue, my concern was why bring it to the right-of-way? We shouldn't allow it to bring it to the right-of-way. But what we've seen is from practice, it's perhaps the most practical place for them to bring it. They cannot leave it in the front yard. They cannot leave it in the driveway because the court order that must be posted on the door by the constable informs that evicted party not to return to the premises. They're legally forbidden. They'll be trespassing if they come back. So the items are brought to the right-of-way. Councilmember, does that help? Because I have some more to add, but I want to answer your question first. Sure. And, I mean, I knew that that wouldn't be an easily accepted, I mean, that's extra costs. And if you're evicting someone who isn't paying rent anyway, that no one wants to incur those fees and all that. But that certainly helps. Thank you. Thank you. And let me, if I can, let me add on while I'm there. So the big conflict that we've had is, so the items are brought, in the case of eviction, they are brought to the right-of-way. They are technically at the right-of-way for the purpose and intent to allow the evicted party to return and get their items. In some cases, the folks aren't coming back. In some cases, they can come back. The constable's role while he or she is there is to safeguard those items if the evicted party is present and has demonstrated their intent to quickly come back and get them. Sometimes you have cases where, unfortunate cases, where the folks are evicted and they're just in a moment of crisis and they're trying to get the resources needed to get a truck or whatever to get their items. In that case, the constable won't allow folks to interfere. But I think all of us have seen witness to once things go to the curb, people come and pick and go through those items, which is illegal. It's against the law to go through those items, but it's very difficult for us to enforce. So the big distinction is when it comes to the curb side, from the perspective of urban county government, it's disposal. Anything that goes in the right of way is for the purpose of disposal. And my point is, as soon as practical, as we can respond in the disposal, it's better for the neighborhood and for the overall cleanliness of the community. So the landlord, they technically cannot dispose of it. And we're only talking about salvageable things, furniture, personal property. If there's trash inside, they're responsible for getting it and putting it in there. Council Member Ford. Council Member Massadi. Thank you, Chair. Council Member Ford, I'm assuming that number three would take care of what have you just spoken about then, having the timely bulk item pick up within 72 hours. That would take care of your last statement that you were discussing? It would, but we're going to need some cleanup of the ordinance. And I think, Mike, if you can come forward, and I'll share with you what I believe is we have a conflict in the ordinance, and you guys, particularly what you guys have in your packet. Section 1610 talks about the scheduling. And 1610 is on page 9 in the packet. It talks about the refuse scheduling. I'm not going to read it verbatim, but I'm just going to summarize it. It says that the Urban County Government provides once a day pickup. In my neighborhood, that's on Thursday. Some parts of my district is today. It's Tuesday. And it talks about the type of materials that will be picked up on the regular collection day. which are the three containers, the Herbie, Lenny, and the Rosie, and any other materials that you can properly, per ordinance, bring to the curb, we'll pick those up, particularly bulk items. But Section 1614 speaks of special collections, which primarily is bulky items. And it speaks to the fact that you can call those in and have those picked up. But the operation as it stands right now is we're only recognizing those to be picked up on your regular set-out day. And that's a conflict to me. Mike, you want to speak to it? Some of the relevant provisions in Section 16 are 16.5 gives the collection procedures and sets out the obligations of the person living at the property to keep the right-of-way free of trash and debris, and that when something's put in the right-of-way within three feet of the refuse collector, it's deemed to be trash to be picked up. and then section 16.61 addresses how to package everything to put it in the right of way for proper pickup. Section 16.10 gives the pickup schedules, you know, you have to put it out, you can't put it out three days in advance. It gives the pickup schedules once a week and it needs to be on the curb no sooner than 4 p.m. the day before. And that's with once a week pickup. and then we come for regular trash collection then we come to section 1614 and that allows for bulk pickup if you call the division of solid waste 24 hours in advance so if you're moving and you have a bunch of things solid waste I'm moving I'm putting this stuff out I'm letting you know 24 hours advance that my stuff is being put on the curb couches desk whatever you want now when this ordinance was passed we still had two a day pickup to two times a week pickup So the most anything that was going to sit at the curb was two or three days. Now, with once-a-week pickup, if somebody moves out on a Saturday, calls Solid Ways and says, I'm putting the stuff out on a Saturday. I've done my duty. I've let you know 24 hours in advance. But my regular pickup days until Friday, that stuff lawfully sits on the curb for six days. Now there was some disagreement in our task force committee. some people felt that the way the ordinance was written was that the calls must be made 24 hours prior to your regular pickup day as it is now. The way Council Member Ford and I read it, and at least one other person read it, was calls can be made at any time during the week, 24 hours when you place the stuff in the public right away for pickup. So that's the part of the ordinance Council Member Ford would like to clarify, that the citizen just calls 24 hours before they place the stuff in the right-of-way because, as he said, people move out every day of the week. And then you'd have to mix that with the operational aspects of being able to follow that ordinance. That's, Council Member Henson, if I can. Thank you, Mike. That is correct. And, again, with the sentiment that this is a move-out ordinance, and it could be based on eviction or it could be based on move, just a regular relocation, or set out, the question becomes operationally, what is an illegal set out? And I think generally, I think our practice is an illegal set out is anything that's set out on a day other than your regular pickup day. So my day is Thursday at my home. So any day that you set something out, it's kind of unofficially understood that that's an illegal set out. But Section 14 says differently. And particularly if you look at the last two sentences of Section 1614, Letter C. It says calls must be made at least 24 hours in advance of the pickup. And there's a maximum of one special pickup per week. So let me summarize this here. So my regular pickup day is on Thursday. If I set out all three containers and I set out a sofa that my wife's replaced, we set it out. It's a bulky item, but it's part of regular collection. Anything that's legally that you can put out on your regular pickup day is a regular collection. The way I look at it, a special collection is if she were to go and get another piece of furniture, go shopping on Saturday. And we have to relocate items from there. You bring it to the curb. So as long as the citizen calls in per the ordinance, as Mike said, that's a legal set out. And so now the question becomes how properly should urban county government respond in service delivery to picking it up? Because Section 16-14, Letter C, only speaks to the obligation of the citizen. It does not speak to the response of the government. Madam Chair, it may be appropriate if I can ask Steve to come and talk a little bit, because I think now we're lending ourselves towards the discussion of operational items. Don't have any prepared remarks, but we ain't glad to answer questions. Okay. I know we met with the group three different times, and it was a great discussion. We've had some good discussions, I think, certainly about the eviction scenarios. As a matter of fact, I got a call about 45 minutes ago from the constable's office, and they were concerned they wanted a loan of box sent over, and I think we're going to be able to do that. And so I think that kind of situation I think we can work really well with, and I think that's something that has a real positive aspect. But as far as bulky item pickup, it's kind of a deeper issue, and so I'm here to answer any questions you might have about that. Council Member Akers. Thank you, Chair. I agree with Council Member Ford, I think. in interpreting paragraph C of section 1614, and I think that I've thought this and done this before myself when I've replaced a water heater or when I've replaced a couch, for instance. But if I call, it seems I would understand this to read, that if I call 24-hour, if I call today, that tomorrow or the following day, depending on the time, that someone will come by to pick it up, that I don't have to wait until my regularly scheduled pickup day. And certainly I think that's in the best interest of the city because, as we all know, people do move out every day, people are evicted every day, and people shop a lot and just dispose of bulky items and appliances and that kind of thing. And so I guess we definitely should look into clarifying that for you all. I agree. It definitely does need to be clarified. Yeah, it would definitely change, I'm sure, you all's entire work schedule. Most of what happens right now, the bulky items that we pick up, I'd say 97%, 98% of the materials that we pick up that are outside the containers involve no phone calls. People generally understand that their set-out day is one of four pickup days, and they set their material out there. Generally, it's not a problem. When you get into a situation or in neighborhoods where they have a lot of rental properties, there's a lot of turnover, then the issue becomes a little more difficult to actually deal with. And that's where we have most of our problems. But overall, folks generally comply with putting materials out on the day that they're supposed to. So as it currently stands, if I see in my neighborhood that someone's evicted on a Monday and my pickup is not until Thursday, and there's trash bags and dressers and a large quantity of goods. And I call you all. You won't come until Thursday, though. Well, let me clarify. The eviction issue is something where the consul actually gets involved. And the hope is that we'll actually get an ongoing relationship going here. where they'll call us as soon as they know something is up. And a lot of times they don't know until they actually get to the property and find out that there's a lot more stuff in that house than they actually thought. But if they can call us, we'll try to get a box out there and at least get it in the box, get it off the curb so that it can be contained. But those are relatively rare. There may be, I want to say, anywhere from 10 to 20 of those a month. You'll have to ask the constable's office for a little better estimate on that. But we can probably react to that. But outside of the eviction scenario, bulky items itself, somebody sets a couch or, that's probably a bad example, just an end table or a couple extra bags out that is not with the container. There are thousands of those incidences every week. And so it's probably two different situations here. One is kind of a situation where we have a real threat to public safety, and the other situation is people just setting stuff out on the incorrect day. Well, and I think sometimes people may move out of an apartment, maybe not necessarily evicted, But they leave a lot of stuff they just don't want and don't want to have to deal with. And then the landlord or the cleaning crew or whoever comes in and does set all of that stuff out. And, I mean, it can be large messes. It can take up, you know, a large section of a sidewalk in front of the house and look unsightly. And so those are also left until pick-up day is what you're saying. Yes. If I called 311 and made a report, it would not be a good pick-up day. If it is deemed to be a public nuisance, then we'll call David Jarvis. He'll get involved and do a 24-hour clean-up. He'll give a 24-hour notice, and they have to get that taken care of, or they will have that picked up. In a lot of these situations where people just leave, they don't call. They just leave, and there's no phone call involved. Right. That's what I was more talking about. Okay, thank you. Council Member Clark. Thank you, Chair. Steve, I'm trying to put all this together in my head here. B and C basically are saying the same things. One talks about appliances where you have to tell people to leave the door off and so forth. But they're basically the same thing, would be basically the same pickup. So basically what Councilman Ford is saying, we need to make it clear what the responsibility is of the citizen and what the responsibility is of waste management. Right, absolutely. Do those two things, we've got it. Now, I'm a little confused about Chris setting out a sofa for you to pick up on a regular pickup day. Are you really capable of doing that? It's not going to be the same truck that's going to pick up your garbage that can pick up your sofa. Wouldn't you have to have a separate truck come and pick up the sofa or a desk or something like that? It depends on your area. Most of the city is serviced with these automated pickup trucks where the arm comes out and grabs a container. Those can't do the bulky item pickup. And so right now we have what we call overflow trucks that follow. It's about a three-to-one ratio that for every three automated trucks, we'll have one that goes on each street and takes care of any overflow, any material that's sitting outside. And so it's typically a different truck. Okay. So basically the ordinance says that if it's on a regular pickup day, you don't have to call. Right. If it's not going to be in a regular pickup day, you have to call a certain time, and Waste Management will pick it up within 72 hours or whatever the ordinance would say. Right. And the ordinance really doesn't explicitly state that you don't have to call. We probably should. That's another thing that we probably need to deal with. That's the other question. If it's not in the container, it's different. It should be treated differently. Okay. Good. Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Chair. Mr. Chairman. Council Member Ford. Thank you, Chair. I want to be explicitly clear is that I am asking the committee and moving towards asking the Council to work with waste management to expand our services and to enhance our response to special collections and bulk pickups to address all facets of move out and transition in the city. I am asking, I am advocating change here. I'm not advocating unreasonable change. What would be unreasonable is the moment that the evicted party's items comes to the curb or the moment that my neighbor sets out his or her bulk items is for waste management to come and respond. That's unreasonable. That doesn't make sense. But what I am asking for is as soon as possible, within a reasonable amount of time, that these items be addressed. And I contend that it's within 48 to 72 hours. Now, that all applies a better communication between neighbors, folks who notice these items on the street, et cetera. So let's talk about the ordinance says that special collections are entitled to citizens. And we have to respond to them sooner. I think that's basically all it is. I will say give waste management this credit is that we're trying to have a more coordinated service delivery. So, for example, Steve has advised us, and we understand now that because of the health hazards, if there are upholstered items, boat items that go to the curb, waste management is making a concerted effort to get to those items as soon as possible. So if there are sofas, if there are mattresses, which could transmit and carry bed bugs and other unsightly things, that they are going out and getting those things, and they're getting it with some equipment specialized for that. So that's good. That's kind of lending itself to kind of where I would like to see us go. So, however, if there's a sofa, if there's a mattress, if there's a Chester drawer there, the Chester drawer and the other items will remain. And the upholstered items will get picked up. Now, try explaining that to the neighbor that's going to call our office to say that we just performed a partial service. And so the best we can to get the items up. Another point that I want to make is that David Jarvis' shop responds in cases where there is a true emergency. And I contend the longer items remain at the curb, beyond a reasonable time of response and delivery, it exponentially increases the likelihood that what may have been a tidy site becomes an emergency that he has to respond to. Just the nature of things. So going back to the recommendation and discussion items, I think the second bullet really is what I'm asking the council to consider. And it's really basically honoring what's in the ordinance. You know? But Council Member Ford, Council Member Stenet would like to speak. Thank you. Steve, can you come back up for a second? Based on some of the comments that Council Member Ford just made, what do our current bulky item crew, what type of day do they work now? Do we just have one crew, one truck, or how many trucks? Give us an overview of our current system. Well, like in the downtown areas where you have a lot of on-treat parking, we'll still have the old traditional rear loader trucks with two guys on the back. And they will pick up bulky items as they're also picking up emptying the Herbys. But they won't pick up appliances, mattresses, et cetera. Right. They do not pick up. Typically, they don't pick up those extra items. that maybe have bed bugs in them. And those are all handled by the special truck where the operator doesn't have to come in contact with them. So give me the hours of the special truck. How many do we have? The special truck that just picks up the mattresses? Anything. Just give us a quick overview. Well, it's generally from 5.30. All the bulky item trucks generally work the same time as all of the other trucks do. It starts at 5.30 and it ends really when the route is completed. And typically that's 2.30 or 3 o'clock in the afternoon. Okay. But on a special request pickup, what determines the route? You all get a list of calls from the day before, and they just complete everything on that list? Yes, for mattresses and… Refrigerators, appliances. Yeah, and usually those are separate trucks. The used appliances are taken care of by a separate truck. It's a liftgate truck because you can't crush all the refrigerators and used appliances. But they're typically on the same schedule as all of our other crews are. And with mattresses, there's a lot of demand for that, as you might imagine, because particularly it's a seasonal thing. This time of year there's a lot of them out there. And sometimes it's harder to keep up with that schedule than it would be other times. But those trucks, they'll try to get all of the requests taken care of on an individual day. So how many trucks do we have total doing those? Just one that's picking up mattresses right now. What about appliances? Just one. So given some of the comments made, how do we increase our response? Do we need to buy new trucks, more trucks? Is it an issue of land power? It depends on where you draw the line. in terms of what you want to respond to. If it's a bulky item, if it's just an extra bag sitting out, all the way from an eviction that fills up the sidewalk down to the extra bag or extra item sitting out, somewhere where you have to draw the line. If we're going to pick up everything that's outside the cart, obviously it's going to take a lot more people, certainly in order to respond in a fairly fast manner. a lot more people and a lot more trucks. I haven't run any numbers there because I wanted to kind of give first a feel for really what we're being asked to do first. But regardless of the level of material that we're trying to address there, obviously more trucks are going to have to be dealt with. So by what I hear you saying, you said a lot more people. It sounds like we have enough people, though, given our overview of other operations and waste management. It's the trucks that we need, and maybe we need to do a special time of year. If this was the busy time of year, we're sort of people, too. We have 35 vacancies right now. But the thing that enables us to handle the situation that we are right now is that we're able to pick everything up on an individual day. If we're going to try to respond to individual calls all around town, then the efficiency of your operation goes down dramatically. And so you'd have to have a lot more people in order to get that done. If we're going to just take calls in and drive out, pick up you on one side of town and somebody else on the other side of town. And obviously there's some routing that can be done. but it's not the same as operating within a certain geographic area. No, I understand the preference is a systematic route or a geographic area, but there has to be a way within our current operations that we can fit in this type of special response, whether it be by whatever's called in by 2 o'clock that day we'll go out and get as one big bulk pickup attempt or some way to modify our procedure. I'd like for you to come back to this committee and figure out a way to do it, because I think 72 hours is very long to wait, too long. I think 24 hours is what, when we all get that call, when we get the call, Chris got the call last year on North Broadway, we were out there within 24. I think that's, in those situations, it has to be 24 hours, given the volume that we were dealing with. I'm not sure how many of those we're going to deal with a year. Code enforcement may now have better numbers, but I'd like to see some of that and what our plan of action. And we can have a standby crew ready if we had to, something like that, to do that. And certainly we're wanting to make sure that can happen. The question would be just where do we draw the line because there are folks that would put out 15 bags. Do we pick that up? Is that a response item? There's four items of furniture, 15 items. so we need to know kind of where we're able to actually draw the line because if we're going to try to pick up everything that's outside the cart or if it's just something that we hold to the worst of the worst it makes a big difference in how much the actual cost is I'd like to hear a recommendation from your department as to what you feel is appropriate to draw the line because this is obviously an issue we're working on in the Waste Management Task Force that if we ever go to a pay-as-you-toss system, we're going to have a policy anyway on how much you can set outside your Herbie because it affects the pay-as-you-toss program. So we're going to have this issue coming down the pipeline anyway if we ever gravitate. So it's better we get some ideas out there and be allowed to discuss them. But the 24-hour emergency situation I think is totally unique, and I would discourage anyone from using us as an easy way to get rid of a lot of stuff at once. versus when code enforcement or a constable goes there, I think that's an opportunity to be able to respond fast. And I think we have, if we can fill those 35 vacancies, that's another issue, of course. But we've authorized, I think, enough people from the council standpoint and budgeted enough that we can get this done, is my point. If we need to buy new trucks, I think we need to have an idea of how many we really need and what needs to be done. So I'm just asking for a plan to come back of how do we accomplish what Council Member Ford has brought for us. Thank you. Thank you. Council Member Ford, I know you've signed up, but I do have some questions that I would like to ask if it's okay with the committee. And, Steve, I agree with everything that's been said as far as, you know, I think Gary Warner and I had a conversation last week about there are certain areas that on any given day, will have a set out. And typically, you know, it's like in the 11th District, garbage pickup day is on Thursday. But then on Friday, the folks move out. You know, they may be moving to another state, and they don't want to take a couch with them or whatever it might be, and they set it on the curb. And most always it is in areas where there's multi-housing units and high turnover with tenants. And maybe it could be that we would identify certain areas to check on a regular basis. I don't really think people know the rules. I think the landlords might, but they don't have enough control on their tenants that the tenant sets it out without them realizing it. And then, you know, and it's really, you know, it harms the neighborhoods to have the items sitting out there. So if there's, even if we, I would be in favor of adding an additional pickup day, say Monday. We would go all over the city and pick up the bulky items because I would think generally people move out during the weekend, so between Friday and Sunday. So I don't know. I would just like for that to be given some serious thoughts. I'm not sure I was going to ask, what are the fines for illegal set out? And according to the ordinance, it doesn't really seem like there are any. Right. We have fined some people through our ordinance, and it's generally in the $45 range. But that's, you know, it's not a very stiff. That's after we've been out there three times. And so it's not really an effective deterrent. It's very minimal. Right. Yeah. But, you know, I just don't know a way that we could communicate with everyone, let everyone know what the rules are. And in the meantime, you know, to me that just seems like an impossible task. But if we could just add an extra bulky item pick-up day, that would certainly help. Thank you. Thank you. Council Member Ford. Thank you, Council Member Henson and members of the committee. I appreciate your attention to this issue in committee. I think we can get it done, and I almost furthermore, I think we're obligated to get it done. I don't want to appear to be an expert by all means, but I've listened tentatively to what the folks have said, and Steve may confirm this for me. I don't think it's going to be as much of a burden as we think it's going to be, particularly in the bulk items. So on the three road cart services that come through my neighborhood on Thursday, the trucks are coming down that street anyway, irregardless if my neighbors put a road cart out or not. Now, surely we're going to have road carts out, but the procedure is that they're going to go down each and every street because that's what they're scheduled to do on that day. The bulk item truck does not go down every street on my pickup day on Thursday. I think because of the technology that we employ out there at Waste Management, that based upon what's observed by the previous service trucks that go through, they'll hit that button when they see a bulk item at my house. And so it's not that we're being inefficient and sending bulk items down every street, I don't believe. So there is some routing that's being employed now on bulk item pickups that can just as easily be employed on special collection days, days outside of regular pickup. So we're not asking for a bulk truck to drive every street in the city every day. That's the importance per the ordinance of calling in, whether it be the citizen or city staff that can get it reported so we can efficiently go to it. The last thing I say, Council Member Henson and committee, is that I don't want us to confuse enforcement and abuse to good service. Steve is correct. Surely there are going to be cases of folks abusing the system. and there are going to be those instances. And we should enforce them. We should enforce and hope that folks will comply with the ordinance that governs our service delivery. But if the ordinance says that I can put something out and all my responsibility is is to call, then that's not an illegal set out. and the response provided by this government ought to be timely somewhat more than once a week. More than just once a week. And I think this would apply to all aspects of how things get to the right of way. the end that I want to leave with is that we should try our very best to keep our right of ways clear as best we can, as soon as we can. And the ordinance calls for that. So I guess is it I can't make a motion, and I think that the committee very well may have more items to discuss, but I would implore for us to work with the administration and waste management to make it possible for us to provide the services that are called for by Section 1614. Thank you, Council Member Ford. Council Member Clark. Thank you, Chair. I'm not sure a motion is in order at this point, but what I would like to ask is I think we're close enough now. Now, I think Council Member Ford and Mr. Feast are close enough in terms of what we need to do at this point to change the ordinance. I think it would be appropriate if they could come back to this committee, not to the Council yet, but come back to this committee with a recommendation for an ordinance change. And I'm not going to make a motion to that effect, but we can keep this matter in committee and ask them to do that because I think we're awful close to that point as we speak. I think it's just a matter of whether it's a regular day pickup or a special collection and how those two work together. I think the ordinance could be changed very simply, and that's what I'd like to suggest. Thank you. I agree, Council Member Clark, that if we could ask the Division of Waste Management to— Steve, I don't know how much time you would need. If you could possibly come back in September, or we can just say by October, if that would work for you with a recommendation of how we can correct this. So does any other Council Member wish to comment? Thank you all. Does anyone from the public wish to speak on this item? If not, we will move on to the next item on the agenda, which is an update on the kitchen floor at the detention center, which this should be very brief, I guess. And I know that it's Director Ballard. Welcome. Welcome. Good afternoon. At the urging of the government, we retained the assistance of Brandstetter and Carroll here, architects here locally, and particularly Mike Carroll and Eric Chambers. They've been out to the JAPI at least four or five times. We've met with them three times off-site. They probably prepared a set of documents about that thick and gave it to Todd Slayton. Now the purchasing has it, and they're going to put that out to bid. The good thing for Council is that they've identified other type of floor materials for the kitchen that meets our needs, which means this time we hope we'll have more vendors apply and get a better price range. Council Member Massadi, did you have a question? Yes, I do. Thank you. Mr. Ballard, I guess my question is, why would you have to engage services of an architecture firm for a floor? Well, we originally had done it ourselves, and then the CAO's office asked us to look at it. There are some issues there that we couldn't answer. One is the moisture that's causing the floor to fail coming from the top or coming from the bottom. And if you put a flooring material down and it's from the bottom up, it voids the warranty. So we needed somebody that had more expertise in the flooring industry than we could offer. All right. Thank you. Thank you. And it sounds like we're well on our way getting it corrected. And we'll have the plan for the transition while the floor is being replaced. You'll have a remote outdoor location. That is correct. Okay. For the kitchen? Yes, ma'am. But I know that it'll be good to get it done. I saw the floor. I know how bad it is. And I appreciate your work and coming here today to give us this update. Thank you. Thank you. Next on our agenda are items in committee. And I'm not sure about Jennifer Benningfield will be back, who is the council staff for this committee. I'm not sure about item one, if anyone has any information on compiling. Here I am. I'm sorry. I didn't see you, Council Member. No, no. And that's the title we used to put it in committee because I think there is a need for shelter for folks during severe weather. And I believe we should take action on it, but I don't know what that next step should be. But I'd like to keep it in committee until we can get there. Thank you, sir. And I agree with you that it, and I will get with Jennifer and see what we might need to do, because I agree this is very important. And it may be that we need to engage with some outside partners so that we can help people harden some places that folks can go to during a time of distress, just as a thought of right now. Thank you, ma'am. Thank you. And then Council Member Myers, abandoned housing. I think we're still looking at some opportunities to do some things in Frankfurt, so if we can keep this in here. Okay. And the infill and redevelopment steering committee recommendation nuisance abatement process, I'll get with Council Member Kay and determine where to go with that. The tenant transition we know is still in committee. I know that a motion was made to remove the police home policy, right? So do you want to keep it in committee for one year? Okay. And there are other items in committee that haven't been placed on the list that came out of the links, the budget links. So we'll be adding to the list. But if no one has anything else, I will take a motion to adjourn. All in favor? Thank you. Thank you.