# Special Committee of the Whole (COW) - October 10, 2013 > Auto-transcribed civic record · October 10, 2013 - **Permalink**: https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/meeting/3145 - **Source video**: https://lfucg.granicus.com/player/clip/3145?view_id=14&redirect=true - **Date**: 2013-10-10 - **Last revised**: July 15, 2026 - **Length**: 8,874 words > ⚠️ **Auto-generated content.** Audio from the official Granicus video was auto-transcribed with OpenAI's open-source Whisper large-v3-turbo model, run locally by The Lexington Times. Structured facts were extracted with GPT-4o; the narrative summary was written by Anthropic Claude. Verbatim wording may contain errors. See [methodology](https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/about/methodology) or [report a correction](mailto:editor@lexingtonky.news). --- ## Meeting Overview The Lexington-Fayette Urban County Council met on October 15, 2013, at 2:00 p.m. in the Council Chambers, with Ms. Gorton presiding. The council considered four agenda items during the meeting, taking six votes and hearing one public comment. Three of the four items were approved: a bus shelter and sign on Alexandria Drive, a kitchen floor replacement at the Corrections Facility, and Phase III of the Legacy Trail. One item—iPads for Building Inspection and Code Enforcement—was withdrawn from consideration. ## Attendance The following individuals were present at the meeting on October 10, 2013: - Henson - Akers - Lane - Stinnett - Ellinger - Ford - Myers - Scutchfield - Mossotti - Lawless - Clarke - Beard - Massadi - Farmer - Kay - Clark No absences or late arrivals were recorded. ## Votes and Decisions **Bus Shelter and Sign on Alexandria Drive** [timestamp: 00:13:44] A motion by Henson, seconded by Akers, to approve $45,000 for a bus shelter and sign on Alexandria Drive passed by voice vote with 8 ayes and 7 nays. Those voting in favor were Henson, Akers, Lane, Stinnett, Ellinger, Ford, Myers, and Scutchfield. Those voting against were Mossotti, Lawless, Clarke, Beard, Massadi, Farmer, and Kay. **Kitchen Floor Replacement at Corrections Facility** [timestamp: 00:18:41] A motion by Henson, seconded by Lane, to approve $400,000 for kitchen floor replacement at the corrections facility passed by voice vote with 13 ayes and 2 nays. Voting in favor were Henson, Akers, Lane, Stinnett, Ellinger, Ford, Myers, Scutchfield, Mossotti, Lawless, Clarke, Beard, and Massadi. Farmer and Kay voted against. **iPad Allocation for Code Enforcement and Engineering** [timestamp: 00:21:56] A motion by Myers, seconded by Kaye, to allocate $31,900 for iPads for code enforcement and engineering was withdrawn. **Legacy Trail Phase III Funding** [timestamp: 00:42:11] A motion by Ellinger, seconded by Myers, to approve $1.1 million for Legacy Trail (Phase III) failed by roll call vote with 4 ayes and 11 nays. Voting in favor were Farmer, Stinnett, Lawless, and Kay. Voting against were Henson, Akers, Lane, Ellinger, Ford, Myers, Scutchfield, Mossotti, Clarke, Beard, and Massadi. **Amendment for Legacy Trail Phase III Funding** [timestamp: 00:56:56] A motion by Lawless, seconded by Massadi, to amend the allocation by providing $600,000 from fund balance for Legacy Trail (Phase III) passed by voice vote with 13 ayes and 1 nay. Voting in favor were Henson, Akers, Lane, Stinnett, Ellinger, Ford, Myers, Scutchfield, Mossotti, Lawless, Clarke, Beard, and Massadi. Farmer voted against. **Adjournment** [timestamp: 01:01:27] The meeting was adjourned by voice vote. ## Budget and Financial Actions The meeting on October 10, 2013 included appropriations for three capital projects: * **Corrections Facility Kitchen Floor Replacement** — $400,000 appropriation for replacement of the kitchen floor at a corrections facility. * **Bus Shelter and Sign on Alexandria Drive** — $45,000 appropriation for a bus shelter and sign on Alexandria Drive, with Arts in Motion designated as the vendor or recipient. * **Legacy Trail (Phase III)** — $600,000 appropriation, representing a partial funding of the $1.1 million total project request for Legacy Trail Phase III. ## Public Comment During the public comment period [timestamp: 01:02:04], Massadi addressed the council regarding equity in park funding. Massadi highlighted disparities in funding across park districts and urged the council to consider equitable distribution of funds for parks. ## Contested Items **Funding allocation for Legacy Trail** The council voted on a motion to allocate $1.1 million for the Legacy Trail project. The motion failed with a vote of 4-11, indicating significant disagreement among council members. The primary dispute centered on the timing and source of funds. Council members debated whether the allocated funds should be used immediately or reserved for future use. Additionally, there was contention over whether distillery bond funds should be redirected to support this allocation. The failed vote demonstrates that a substantial majority of the council opposed the proposed funding approach at this time. **Use of fund balance for non-shovel-ready projects** Council members engaged in heated discussion regarding the allocation of large sums from the fund balance to projects that cannot be fully spent within the current fiscal year. The core concern was whether committing significant resources to projects lacking immediate implementation capacity represented responsible fiscal management. Council members raised questions about potential wasted funds and the lack of accountability mechanisms for projects that would extend beyond the fiscal year. This debate reflected broader disagreement about budget priorities and the appropriate use of available fund balance reserves. ## Bus Shelter and Sign on Alexandria Drive Council discussed funding for a historic bus shelter restoration project at Alexandria Drive. [timestamp: 00:05:11] The primary debate centered on whether LexTran should fund the project. Key speakers in the discussion included Henson, Lane, Massadi, and Lawless, who presented different perspectives on the appropriation. The council voted on the measure, with the motion passing by a narrow margin of 8 ayes to 7 nays. This close vote reflected the divided opinion among council members regarding the funding responsibility and allocation for the bus shelter restoration. ## Kitchen Floor Replacement at Corrections Facility [timestamp: 00:14:17] The council considered an appropriation of $400,000 for urgent kitchen floor replacement at the corrections facility due to health and safety concerns. **Key Speakers** The discussion involved council members Henson, Lane, Beard, and Myers. **Outcome** The council approved the appropriation. The motion passed with 13 ayes and 2 nays. ## iPads for Building Inspection and Code Enforcement A motion to fund iPads for building inspection and code enforcement was withdrawn following staff explanation of significant implementation challenges. [timestamp: 00:19:14] Key speakers Myers, Lane, and Emmons participated in the discussion of this agenda item. **Concerns Raised** Staff identified two critical obstacles that made the proposed purchase impractical at the time: - Lack of software integration capabilities - Absence of adequate data plans These technical and logistical gaps meant the iPads could not be effectively deployed for their intended inspection and code enforcement purposes without additional infrastructure and planning. **Outcome** The motion was withdrawn rather than voted down, indicating that the proponents agreed the proposal was not ready for implementation in its current form. ## Legacy Trail (Phase III) Council considered an appropriation for the Legacy Trail Phase III project [timestamp: 00:22:31]. The initial proposal requested $1.1 million in funding. **Discussion and Concerns** Council members Ellinger, Farmer, Lawless, Kay, Stinnett, and Clark participated in the debate. Key concerns centered on the timing of the expenditure and whether the funds could be spent within the appropriate budget cycle. Council members questioned the spendability of the full amount requested, raising doubts about the project's readiness to obligate the entire $1.1 million allocation. **Outcome** Rather than approving the full $1.1 million request, Council passed a motion to allocate $600,000 for Legacy Trail Phase III. The remaining funds were deferred to be addressed in future budget cycles, allowing the project to proceed with a reduced appropriation while preserving the option to fund additional phases later. --- ## Decisions - **Motion** — passed (8-7): Approval of $45,000 for bus shelter and sign on Alexandria Drive - **Motion** — passed (13-2): Approval of $400,000 for kitchen floor replacement at corrections facility - **Motion** — withdrawn: Withdrawal of motion to allocate $31,900 for iPads for code enforcement and engineering - **Motion** — failed (4-11): Approval of $1.1 million for Legacy Trail (Phase III) - **Motion** — passed (13-1): Amendment to allocate $600,000 from fund balance for Legacy Trail (Phase III) - **Motion** — passed: Adjournment of the meeting --- ## Full transcript Music Seats. we're going to go ahead and start our special committee of the whole to continue dealing with the fund balance and each of you should have a packet which has in it the fund balance project rankings and I want to thank Jonathan Hollinger who took the list from our previous meeting and color-coded it for us. And it shows in green the items that the Council approved last week, and it shows in yellow what was tabled, and it shows in red those items that various Council members removed from the list for a variety of reasons. So does anyone have a question, first of all, about the list and the color coding and all, where we are? And then your packet has the table of motions. And so we are ready to start with item number 14. And, Jonathan, if you could put our total available up for us. So, Council, you'll see on the screen that we started with $14.9763 million, allocated $7,353,000, and we did not allocate the $2.25 million. correct? The $2.25 million is still tabled, so if you did wish to fund that in the future, you would need to reserve that amount. And then you had also discussed the administration recommended unassigned fund balance. Neither of those have been adopted, but they have been included. And there's a summary on page four of your packet which outlines those two Okay, so, Council Members, if you look at page 4, and so the total allocated versus the beginning fund balance of $14.9 million, Jonathan, So remaining is the $7,623,300. That's the current number that we're working with. And I think you were putting those other items in there just so council members could see what had been tabled and what had been discussed and kind of where we are. So that $7.6 million includes the unassigned fund balance, correct, because Council hasn't taken any action on that. Okay. Does everybody understand what's what and where we're going? Yes, Mr. Lane. Could we just discuss that administration-approved unassigned fund balance? Is that part of the budget that we've passed already, or is that just? A number. Are we looking for a carry-forward amount for this year's fiscal year budget? I think our budget director is going to answer that. The 2.4 is not what was in the budget for FY14. That's just what the administration would like to keep in unassigned fund balances for things that come up throughout the year that we may not foresee. $1.5 million is what is in the actual budget, so we would not go any lower than that because that's what's in the adopted budget. You're welcome. Okay. Any other questions about the information that we have? All right. Let's get started then. We are on number 14, and that is Council Member Henson's recommendation for the bus shelter and sign on Alexandria Drive. Council Member Henson, did you have any comment before we or motion? I move approval of number 14. And this item does have some current funds, and as I explained before, this is the balance of the funds. And Lex Tran has also contributed to or will be contributing to award along with Dixon Electric. and there is another agency that has put up $2,500 toward the shelter and I can't remember the name of it. I apologize. It's not Bluegrass Foundation, but it's a foundation of some sort. Arts in Motion has put in approximately 200 volunteer hours with the proposal. Do I hear a second? Second. So Council Member Henson moved and Council Member Akers seconded to approve number 14 to allocate $45,000 to that project. Is there any discussion? Are those of you on here for discussion? All right. Council Member Lane? Yes, I'm not familiar with this particular location, but why would not Lex Tran put the bus shelter in? I mean, they have their own money, their own budgets for that. I think it's inappropriate for us to fund their operations when they have their own tax base. This is an existing bus shelter that's been there since the 50s. and it would be restoring it to its original. Right. I mean, why couldn't Lex Tran restore it? I mean, they have the money to do that. You know, this is money that we don't have an unlimited amount of money, and I think Lex Tran ought to handle that myself. And, I mean, we could pass a request. Well, it doesn't belong to Lex Tran. And so, you know, I just know that I think this is something we've been working on for over three years and coming up with the design and all the work that needed to be done to restore it. Well, may I ask who owns the property? Pardon? Who owns the property? It's in the Garden Side Shopping Center, so it's Pearson Trap. Right. We'll see. I mean, we would be improving their property, not urban county government property. I feel that the LexDran should enter into a lease agreement with them and then work out an arrangement to do the renovation. I think it should be restored just like you want. I just don't think we should do that one. And I would support an effort to get LexDran to do it personally. That's just one opinion. You know, I saw it very similar to restoring Scullers' Clock, only, I mean, I know that that was donated money, and we've been trying to get the donations, but this is just a different area. So that could use a little uplift. So thank you. Council Member Stennett. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Council Member Hinson, what is the total cost to renovate an existing shelter? This one is a lot of electrical work and lighting because it had lettering on the side that says garden side that lights up, and none of that's been working for years. How much is, what's the total cost? Fifty-three something. We have some funds. So the total cost is 53, you have six? Yes, 7,000. So this would pay the balance. So Lexitran, what are they paying of it? I think it's five. Dixon Electric is also donating the, well, it has got to be it, but they'll donate the labor. And then not to mention what Arts in Motion is put in. And if you added up those volunteer hours. So who would get the check for $45,000? Who would oversee? Who would we write it to? Arts in Motion. They would oversee the construction. Right. And I have a proposal. And Lex Tram's putting in five of the 53? They normally put in about five. And do you know what it costs to build the other shelters around town? I don't. Thank you. Council Member Lawless? I was going to ask some of the same questions. Okay. Council Member Massadi? Thank you, Chair. I have a similar issue where I have Fayette Mall, and we've been trying to get a bus shelter there. Right now they get the bus out behind Dick's in the parking lot, and it's LexTran that will fund that shelter. So this is very similar that it is a shopping center as is Gardenside, and I understand the need, but I'm not sure it should be our money that's paying for this, but it should be LexTran's as well. Thank you. Are there other questions? Thank you. Councilmember Henson, is the decision? That's the shelter action that looks right now. And did you confirm, is the shelter an arts in motion project? It is. We've been working on it for three years. Okay. Are there any other questions? This would also include the artwork. Any other questions? Councilmember Lawless? We are getting ready to the piggy bank art in motion shelter on Euclid is being completed. And there were a variety of ways. There was a neighborhood action match grant for $10,000. $10,000 was private donations on Kickstarter. they're always on private property, the shelters, because they can't block the sidewalks, et cetera. So I'm wondering if any of those efforts had been looked at as far as raising the money. I know that we were in the process of doing a fundraising campaign, And in all honesty, when this opportunity came up, because we had been working on it for so long, and only generated like $7,000 plus the labor cost, and this shelter is not like the other shelters to where the electrical work is a very expensive component to it. So that's why I placed it on the list. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Council Member Myers. Thank you, Vice Mayor. I, too, just believe that I think last time LexCham was in here, they had about $14 or $15 million sitting in the bank, and so I would ask them to step up and take care of this. Thank you. Does anyone else wish to speak? Seeing no one. We have a motion on the floor to approve $45,000 for the bus shelter and sign on Alexandria Drive. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? And if you'll log in, please. We need a couple more votes, Council Members, if you haven't voted. One more. One person has not voted. Oh, is it me? I thought I had voted. Sorry, folks. Okay. That motion passed 8 to 7. Number 15 was a request from the administration for the $400,000 for the kitchen floor at our corrections facility. Melissa, did you want to speak about that? Move approval. We have a motion to approve. Thank you, Council Member Henson, and a second by Council Member Lane. Okay. All right. We're just bringing this item forward. We didn't put it in the budget because at that time we didn't have viable competitive bids, and now we have those. I think everybody knows what's going on out there with the kitchen floor, and this is something that we can't wait on, so we would appreciate approval. of this. Councilmember Massadi. Melissa, can you tell me the square footage of this floor and what kind of material it is? I can't, but Rodney can. Thank you. 12,000. Good afternoon. It's 12,000 square feet and it's currently with tile. So it's a tile and grout floor. So the tile and grout has to be removed. How many bids have you gotten? How many bids have you gotten for this. Well, the first time we went, we only had one. We went back out this last time. We had three submit bids. One was not accepted, so we had two bidders, and we selected the best bid. Thank you. Council Member Lange? Yes, I'd just like to say I think this is a health safety issue and that we need to prepare food for the people that work there and also are prisoners, and I I don't think we really have a choice. This is a necessity, not an option. I'd like to tag on to Council Member Lane. I want to thank Mr. Ballard, who, after the corrections graduation, took me to the kitchen. And it's, I'm so sorry to put it this way, it's a mess. The floor is unsafe. And if you have not been out there to see it, how some of the tiles have actually peeled up, the water is running in places it shouldn't, it is definitely a safety issue. Council Member Beard. Thank you, Vice Mayor. You and I had had discussions on several occasions about the commissary and the phone situation as far as the money that we pull out from the various and sundry people incarcerated. Could any of that money be diverted to do this? Or has that already been? Have you already utilized it somewhere else? No, sir. But the commissary money is controlled by KRS, and the profit from those accounts can only be spent for the benefit of the inmates, personal hygiene and those kind of items. The telephone revenue is all turned back in to the general revenue to be dispersed. So the telephone revenue, I have no access to it. Is that a budgeted thing? Do we have a budget for that going in, or is this something we find out later? Budgeting for the floor? No, budging of the telephone money. No, sir, that money just comes back in monthly. We give it to the treasurer. Is it budgeted? I guess that's a question. Or is it found money? Is it found money? We do account for it in our revenue. It's not a substantial amount, but it is included in our revenue. It's not a substantial amount? No, not compared to this whole. I remember one year it was $600,000, which I considered. Well, there are various funds that come through corrections to our general fund, so we've worked on getting them separated out into more accountable funds for what they are in this budget. Well, I just was wondering if that could be this money or part of this money that could be directed toward the need here and requirement. Thank you, Mayor. Council Member Myers. Thank you, Vice Mayor. I agree. This floor, if this was a private sector business, the health department would probably have something to say about our floor. So we need to go ahead and get this taken care of today. Thank you. Does anyone else wish to speak to the motion? Okay. I see no one. The motion is to allocate $400,000 to replace the kitchen floor and corrections. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? And then if you'll log in your vote, it helps our Granicus folks. That motion passes 13-2. Thank you very much. number 16 is iPads for building inspection code enforcement, zoning enforcement, and engineering for $31,900. Do I hear a motion? Yes. Council Member Myers moved and Council Member Case seconded to allocate $31,900 for number 16. Council Member Lane. Yes, I have a question for Chief of Staff Emmons, please. Do you have money in your budget for IT that you could pay it out of our existing budget without coming out of surplus funds? If this was an important item, it seemed like it would have been budgeted for the year. Yeah, this was not one of our recommendations, Mr. Lane. Are you highly recommending that we get this equipment for your? I had heard that there were software expenses on top of this money that was not included in the request, so I think that might change the conversation a bit. Derek, do you know anything about this? The idea behind this, I think, and it came from Council Member Myers, is for when we have Acela working. One other unfunded issue will be cell service. When asked to spec it so that you can buy it with cell service, we would have to purchase a data plan for all of these pads as well, all the iPads as well. We will not have Acela up and running for use on this soon. What you're saying is you don't need the hardware. You need the software. Is that what you're saying? Well, the hardware, again, we don't have a program that we could send everybody out to use it in the field currently. When we have Acela, we will. But we are not to the stage that we will have it implemented to a satisfactory position that we will be able to install Acela and have everybody go out using it in the field. So at this point, if we were to do it, we would have to find a software system that we could use in some way to make use of it. Plus, we'd also have to have a data plan as well. So without those two things, it makes it a little bit more, a little less useful. Okay. Are you saying delay or are you recommending we? I would say at this point, we do not. I don't think it would be as useful this year. In the future, it will be useful. So I would say, you know, it's not a priority at this point. Okay. Thank you. Council Member Myers. I withdraw my motion. You withdrew your motion. Does the seconder, Council Member Kaye, do you withdraw your motion? So do you want to do anything else with that item? Do you want to withdraw it? Yes. Yes, we'll just do that. Thank you, Vice Mayor. So item number 16 is removed. Item number 17 is the Legacy Trail, $1.1 million. Are the folks on for the previous issue? Okay. And you should have before you, Leah Boggs did some really good research on the Legacy Trail to show what is funded, what is not, and then a copy of the article in today's paper. And I would entertain if there are any motions. Motion approved. Second. I have a motion from Council Member Ellinger to approve second by Council Member Myers. Discussion, Council Member Lawless. I'm going to withdraw my... Okay. Council Member Stennett. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Commissioner Paulson, can you give us the priority list? I know we talked about it briefly during my committee about our next trails in order in which we're seeking funding. Is this number one, the next one, or are there other ones ahead of it, or how does this one fall? I'm going to get you to come up as well. This was not in our CMAC grant funds, and this was not one that we asked for funds for. I think Keith can maybe give a little bit more in terms of where it may lie in terms of our priority, but this was not one of the, I think there were five that we asked for funding for, the latest CMAC grants, four, and this was not one of them. Okay. Very good. The next question I had, so the $1.1 million for those, I guess it was Vice Mayor Gordon, does this finish the trail completely? This would finish the trail completely. And it's shovel ready? And Keith Lovin is here. I'll let the two of them discuss this. It's shovel ready, ready to go, if we approve this tonight. So of the $1.1 million that's being asked, about $100,000 of it could be spent within this next year. The rest is unlikely it would be able to be spent this year, probably the following year. I guess that's my point, and using these one-time dollars, what can we spend the next year with the commitment that we find the rest of it? because my concern is, same as we have with the distillery bond, that trail money, the $1.2 million that we decided we haven't spent yet, will sit there for two, three more years, and we're already paying interest on it. This is cash, which could be even worse because it could go to other projects that are ready. So in the next 12 months, how much is the $1.1 million? Just $100,000. That's right. Okay. Thank you. Council Member Farmer. I'll just withdraw at this time. Council Member Kaye. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Let me ask Scott a follow-on question. Some of what needs to be done is a bidding design and so on. Can we do that if we don't have that money in place? So it may not be able to, I guess the question I'm asking is we may not be able to spend that money, but is there the preparation needed in order to spend it in the next fiscal year that would have to be done this fiscal year? I would say for outside that 100,000, no. So I can break it down into these four categories if it would be helpful, the 1.1 million. So 100,000 for the Kulavan area. This is for something we could do immediately, the design, covering the design and the engineering around that section. We know that's happening. $300,000 was in there to cover the amount that was ported from the Legacy Trail over to the Isaac Murphy Memorial Art Garden. There's a $200,000 ask in here to cover a section that had not been previously covered, the only section, Legacy Trail, that hadn't been previously covered from crossing Loudoun Avenue around the YMCA and the Hope Center. The reason for that is that there had not been clarity on how the trail would get through that area, whether it would be a very expensive bridge or not. Fortunately, it's looking like we won't have to build a bridge around there. We will be getting an accurate crossing from the railroad. So there's lots of good news there, which means that that number is now coming in at around 200,000 instead of something much higher. And there was a 500,000 contingency that was put in there as well. But if you're looking for what can be funded, what we can start on this year, that number is 100,000. Thank you for that. Then I'd just like to follow up comment, if I may. My concern about not allocating this money at this time is that there's been an impression, fairly or not, that the money had already been in place and that work was going to begin. And then there's been a series of holdups that have to do with rights of way and so on and so on. My understanding was that we were getting those resolved. and that my concern is if we don't allocate this money now, that when we get to the point of actually needing it, we may not have it. This is a part of the trail that initially was going to be funded before Phases 1 and 2, and not to put too fine a point on it, but given the history of underserving the north side in our community, We once again taking these funds that are available and not applying them to this project, I think, would be a mistake. So I understand that we can't spend that money in this year. I want to have it ready so that when we resolve the final issues, funding is not an issue as it has been in the past. So I would hope that people would support this. Thank you. Thank you. Council Member Massadi. Thank you, Vice Mayor. I appreciate your putting this on the list. I think it's something that everybody is interested in. However, I have the concern about the funding. If we have trails that are shovel-ready and need to be funded, why don't we do those instead of something that we can't do this year? Didn't you just say we had two or three trails that were ready to go right away and needed funding? I think Keith said that. I was just asking Keith the same question. That's what I thought he had said, that we had a couple trails that are shovel-ready and ready to go. So why not use that money for that and put this in the 2014 budget? And I think in terms of where the money goes to, which ones, I think what we've done in terms of our CMAQ grants are the ones that are not necessarily shovel-ready, but I think Keith can speak to the ones that we do have that are shovel-ready. Can you do that? The CMAC grant applications are, because there is a lot more cost associated with design and engineering right-of-way that we need to do for some of them, that's why we've asked for the CMAC grant funds. Keith, you're on. We've got a couple of trails that have been designed. They're located in some of our parks, so we don't have the right-of-way issue. Masterson Station's got a trail that's been designed. Jacobson Park has got a trail that's been designed. So those two would be what I would consider shovel-ready. There's still some issues with some of the user groups, particularly in the Masterson station, that we'd have to work through that. And Cardinal Run, we've also got a facility out there that's been designed. But those could be done with this million dollars, what you're saying, and those could be effectively done right away. Yes. Friday we worked out the issues with the stakeholders, and it's always, you know, we're behind people's backyard, so there's going to be some pushback on that. Oh, I understand. Okay. We were just told that we couldn't use this money, only $100,000 of it to complete the legacy travel. I think it's a great project. I just worry about the timing on all of this. And there is some of the money that could be used on legacy. We could go ahead with the design. And the only reason that I feel uncomfortable saying we can't spend it between now and the end of the fiscal year is because of the right-of-way issues. We have just started negotiating the right-of-way with three different property owners. A lot of times that just takes a lot of time. But we could spend some of that money for design. How much can you spend? Can you give me an accurate number? Probably a couple of hundred thousand, about $200,000. Okay. Thank you very much. Councilmember Ford. I'm sorry. Councilmember Ellinger is next. My screen is acting up. Councilmember Ellinger, I apologize. I didn't know, but I was thinking about for this trail because I'm going to be really excited back and forth. So every time I keep looking, my name gets pushed down further. I want to just continue on what Council Member Kay had said about keeping the money there. And, Keith, if you could come up here. I don't know of any project we've done here in this city in the last few years that has been more taken by this community as the legacy trail. And for one who cycles a lot and uses it quite a bit, I want to see us being able to get from downtown out to the horse park. and hopefully we're going to be able to continue that both north and south someday. But the hard part should have been the eight miles that we put on the trail, and the four miles should have been the easy part. It seemed like the four miles from the Isaac Murphy to get to the Y has been really a trouble issue, and I'm hoping that if we put the money there that it's going to get done. If it doesn't get all spent this year, at least we know it's a placeholder, it's there, and it's going to be there when we finally get everything ready to spend. Otherwise, I don't want to get to a point and then it's going to continue to get pushed back. I want to be ready whenever you're all ready to have it done that we move this forward. Like I said, for the quality of life, the project that's been used by this community in the last couple of years, I can't think of any project that we've had that has been taken and been used more by this community. And I, for one, want to spend the money and make sure that it's in there. And what are the dates that we're looking at that it can finally be completed? because it's a long time coming. Right now I'm projecting we should have the entire trail finished in 2015. The Legacy 3, which is the funding that we've got in place now, is to do the section from Jefferson over to the Isaac Murphy. The part that's not funded is the part that gets from the Y across the railroad tracks across Loudoun Avenue to get over to the abandoned rail line. with us using our own money we've eliminated a lot of the requirements that we would have to use if we were using federal dollars so um there is a chance that we could you know spend this quicker because we don't have to do all of the environmental we don't have to do all of the other requirements that we would have to do if it were grant money so this is one-time money that we can put forward and get a project complete, and if it's sitting there and whenever we're ready to use it, it's going to get done. I'd hate for us to, as Council Member Kaye said, we don't spend $200,000 now, and we come back and we left $900,000 on the table, and then when we come back for $900,000 and we don't have the money, then we don't get it finished. I think this is one thing we've got. We're almost at the end of the tunnel. We're very close, and let's get this one complete, because as I said twice now, I don't know of a project that we've done in this community that's been used more and been a benefit like the Lexi Trail is. Thank you. Council Member Ford. Thank you. Excuse me. Thank you, Vice Mayor. I want to begin by applauding Keith, Commissioner Paulson, for all the work that has led to IMAG finally coming on board. I echo what Council Member Elegan just said, Council Member Kay. I respect the consideration other Council Members have made. All of our trails throughout the system are important. but this is the legacy trail and as I understand before my time on council it was promised and a lot of the support was leveraged around the possibility of going from IMAG to the horse park we had that opportunity with this funding I support the motion thanks vice mayor welcome councilmember Beard thank you vice mayor well I would have to agree with councilmember Ellinger probably less than 5% of the 300,000 people that live in Fayette County will or have utilized the Legacy Trail. And we may have need for that million one for police cars, additional police cars, classes for both fire and police that are going to take care of the whole city. And I don't know how we can pass that opportunity up when it comes. We don't know specifically and haven't heard specifically what it will be, but we know that that's been the case all along, that they have not been able to do certain things. I know at one time there were two fire engines that were bought in 1986, and they were still using them. That's not acceptable as far as I'm concerned. So it would be nice to go ahead and bank everything on the front end. We won't have anything to be able to do things ad hoc if something really important happens. So I can't support this. Council Member Farmer. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Keith, is there anything that would stop us from using the remaining bond proceeds from the distillery district to do this with? Not that I know of. I'd like to make a motion to amend to provide this $1.1 million from the bond proceeds from the distillery district. So moved. I have a motion by Councilmember Farmer and a second by Councilmember Stennett to take the remaining proceeds from the distillery bond, which is, Commissioner, how much is left in the distillery district? I believe with the 500 for the hydrology study, there was 1.2 left. $1.2 million, take it from the Town Branch Trail, et cetera, the distillery district bond, and place it on finishing the Legacy Trail. Now, those of you who are on the list, do you want to speak to the amendment? Who wants to speak to the amendment? Okay, we'll just start right down the line. Council Member Lawless, then Council Member Kay. Well, I was on there not to speak to the amendment, but I'll speak to the amendment now. I think that how long is it going to be before the hydrology study is done for the distillery district? I would give an estimate. I would say it'd have to be about a year, just because of the measurements that have to be done to calibrate the model. My concern, just like with my concern with putting this off, is that if we take that money that's been earmarked for some time for the distillery district, then when it's ready, there's not going to be any money and the bond isn't going to be there, et cetera. So I'm torn about using those funds that have been sitting there for the distillery district and trying to move forward in an extremely worthy infill and redevelopment project. And then this, so that's my, I mean, I understand the logic behind that money can't be used for about a year. let's use it now but this is kind of the same argument about well this money can't be used for a year why don't we put it off or keep it as a placeholder so to me it's the kind of the same argument one question that I have on on this, and Mr. Levin, or you may be able to answer, or somebody. To the amendment? Is this a question about the bond and putting it from the distillery? Okay, no, I'll take that back. Next. But I do have another question. That bond was part of our TIF commitment for the distillery district, So legally, are we allowed to take that money that was part of the TIF agreement for the distillery and put it towards something else? Commissioner? I'm not going to speak for the Commissioner of Finance, but it's my understanding that those bond funds can be used anywhere in the city. They're not tied to the TIF. Okay. So they can be spent anywhere. Okay, thank you. Council Member Kay. Thank you, Vice Mayor. While I appreciate the spirit of the amendment, and I remain, of course, interested in having this funded, I don't like the idea of pitting one project against another project and making decisions about the allocation of those bond funds that we've begun to have a conversation about the best use, and it may not be in the distillery district, but if not, there may be some other uses as well. So I'm going to vote against the amendment. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Councilmember Akers. Thank you, Vice Mayor. I'm also going to vote against the amendment. I think that we've had numerous conversations and that there is a portion of the trail in the distillery district, the Town Branch Trail, that is ready to be constructed. And I just see this as robbing Peter to pay Paul and shuffling allocations. And if it's about shovel-ready, then one is, I mean, I just don't think that's really the conversation to be had. So I will vote against it. Thank you. Thank you. Does anyone else wish to speak to the amendment? Okay, I see no one. All those in favor of using the $1.2 million from the distillery district bond for the Legacy Trail, please say aye. And those opposed, nay. Nay. and that motion failed 4 to 11. And so the motion on the floor then is to allocate $1.1 million to the legacy trail from the fund balance, and I think we have a list of speakers still. Council Member Kaye, are you still on the list? Yes, I am. Thank you, Vice Mayor. I just wanted to ask an additional question. On the spreadsheet that I have, the contingencies, amenities, and miscellaneous does not specify that that would be used for Phase III, and I want to make sure that that's just an editorial omission, and that money is allocated specifically for Phase III. Is that correct? It's to finish out the legacy trail, yes. So it would be for the portion that's not built yet. which is Phase 3. I've got two different Phase 3s. There's a grant for Phase 3, which is specific for either the 3rd, 4th, or 5th Street corridor. That's a grant for Phase 3. The unfinished portion of Legacy, I could also call that Phase 3, and that's where this half a million dollars is for the unfinished portion of the Legacy Trail. And the Legacy Trail, from which portion of the Legacy Trail? From the YMCA to the Isaac Murphy Memorial Art Garden. That's the answer I was looking for. Thank you. Thank you, Vice Mayor. You're welcome. Council Member Stinnett. Thank you, Vice Mayor. You know, I think most of us fully support the Legacy Trail. It has, Council Member Ellinger said, it's been an asset to our community. When I asked my question earlier, is this shovel ready, I was hoping someone would say, absolutely, we can spend this money. because there's a lot of critical projects on here, a lot of good projects that can spend this money right away, not to mention three other trails in our city. We're also applying for CMAC grants in another list, and this one's not even on the top five, that we're applying for CMAC grants to get those trails done. So I think there's a, you know, I know, Councilman Kay, you said you don't want to pit project against project the way you are because we have other projects rated higher on our own list that we're applying other grants for. We have a bridge over Man of War that's waiting for an additional $1 million because it already has half a million, but we can't spend it because we don't have the other million. This could easily be used for. Let's put enough money in here that we can spend in a year because we do this all the time. We did it with the Senior Assistance Center. We put $5 million knowing next year they're going to come back and ask for more money. We can do the same thing with this cash. We can put the appropriate amount of money today and then come back and ask for the remainder. That's a commitment we can make each year in the budget anyway. So, Keith, 100% in this current year, how much can we spend? I know we've heard $100,000, we've heard $200,000. What number is it? I know I heard 1.1, but I know we can't spend that in here. But go ahead. Well, it's a difficult question to answer because it's contingent upon things that need to happen. We're negotiating with three different property owners. We've had to adjust the alignment. One of the things that we can do is go ahead and set the alignment and go with a specific easement to these property owners. But what's happened is we've gone to one property owner, and they didn't like it, and so we've had to shift it. And so we can do the engineering. We can finish out the Coulin Rail Trail. We can actually spend some of that $300,000. One of the things I'm doing is waiting until we get the Legacy III grant from Frankfurt. But the first thing I would be doing would be setting up the design team and starting the public meetings. One of the things that we could do is we could take this $300,000 and go ahead and start that process and not wait. And then whenever we've got the grant money, then we can just go ahead and start building it. So there is a percentage of each of these categories that we could spend. to give a number because if you're wanting a drop dead date to spend the money by I think there's just too many unknowns to give that but with those unknowns that you're talking about we still think we can finish 100% of this project by 2015 yes I think given the next six months we'll have the alignments selected, we'll know what we need to build, we'll have the easements that we need I just need six months to do that, which puts us very close to the deadline. You mean the end of the fiscal year? Right. This is fund balance money? Right. Okay, very good. So no dollar amount? I'd be hesitant to give it. One thing I do know is that half me, and that was just sort of thrown in there because I think Ms. Gorton wanted to know what it would take to finish the whole thing. And that's just to cover items that I can't foresee. So hold on. If it's just a throw in in there, I don't like to use that word up here when we're talking about a half million dollars. That could buy two ambulances for our community. So I just think we need a real number. 1.1 seems a lot more than we actually probably will end up needing. And we're spending cash today on this project. I don't think it's a firm number. and I hate to allocate this today without a firm number because I fully support getting it done. And if we could do it tomorrow, I'd say get it done because it's a great asset to our community. But we need a real number. We need to make sure we can actually spend money and get it done versus just putting a number in a budget. It doesn't. I'm sorry. Tell me how we threw $500,000 in there. The $500,000 was just put in there as a buffer to make sure that we had enough funds to complete the project. Well, I mean, that's almost double the cost of the other pieces. That's double. That's not a contingency. A contingency is 10 or even 20% I could live with, but 100% contingency? I'm not sure I can live with that at 1.1. I think we need better numbers to support this moving forward. Thank you. Council Member Lawless. Thank you. What I was going to say was it seems to me that, you know, the 300,000 to 5th, Phase 3 to 5th, is really quite doable. The $100,000 you need to get the application and the bid for the construction done. And then the $200,000 is in discussion with the railroad. Right. So by my math, which, Keith, you know is my thing, that's $600,000 that if it isn't all spent, you kind of need it there to proceed with getting these things done within this fiscal year. That would go a long way to getting us to where we need to be, yes. And if angels drop from the sky and things go really well, we could come back and visit the 500,000. Yes. Because that probably wouldn't be ready for the amenities until after this fiscal year, FY15. So would the $600,000 push us forward in a meaningful way this year and be about what we would need this year to push forward in a meaningful way? Yes. And then if we need more, we can come back and bond or whatever the other $500,000 if it all gets done. That would definitely go a long way. We could start the process of the design of Phase III. We could finish out the Kulavan, and we could also do that connection. And how long is the abandoned rail? The linear footage is about 2,500 feet. How many? 2,500 feet. Okay, well, you know I'm directionally in. Half a mile. Okay, and I helped with a grant with UK on doing a highline-type project like they did in New York with abandoned railroads, And so I found out a lot about that that I didn't know about abandoned railroads. So I'd be glad to talk to you about that also. Great job. And I would like to amend the motion to approve $600,000 for this fiscal year. Second. Did you make a motion? Mm-hmm. Okay. is to amend this number to 600,000, and Council Member Massadi seconded it. Now, folks on the list, do you want to speak to the amendment, or shall we just go down the line? Council Member Kaye, to the amendment. Thank you, Vice Mayor, to the amendment. I think this is a reasonable compromise, but I'm reluctant to be in full support. I will support it, but I want to make clear that I want, if it's at all possible, for council members to remember this discussion and that what I heard was people were committed to getting this trail completed with all the amenities. We're putting $500,000, if we do approve this, taking that off the table for the moment, but it's not gone. I don't want to go back to the community that's waiting for this and say, once again, money has been taken out of it. But I will support the motion because I think at this point it's a reasonable thing to do. Thank you, Vice Mayor. You're welcome. Council Member Ford. Thank you, Vice Mayor. I just want to echo. I agree with Council Member Lawless and Council Member Kaye. I think for the remainder of the fiscal year, this $600,000 as amended will go a long way. I support the amendment. Thank you, Vice Mayor. You're welcome. Does anyone else wish to speak to the amendment? Council Member Ellinger. It appears that we're headed to $600,000 from 1.1, which is better than at times it looked like we were going to not get anything. So we're getting closer. But I just want to reiterate what Council Member Kaye said is if we have to come back and we do need extra money to finish this, let's not get the project done because we're going to be Pennywise pound foolish. We're this close. Let's get it done. But I will support the 600,000, and if we need more, please let us know. Thank you. Does anyone else? Councilmember Clark. Thank you, Vice Mayor. I also agree this is a good compromise. In the first place, we don't really know how much more it's going to cost than the 600,000. So I think it would be a good starting point to take this compromise and start with that, and then we can come back, and I don't have any problem with that. I think Council Member Kaye is right. We can come back and finish this thing, but we might be able to do it in $600,000. Thank you, Vice Mayor. You're welcome. Does anyone else wish to speak to the amendment? Council Member Lawless. Yes, and I want to make it perfectly clear. I amended this with the full intention that if more is needed this fiscal year or when it is needed, it will be, I certainly would be 100% committed to it. Thank you. Okay. Anyone else? Keith, I just wanted to ask you a question. And in the $600,000, does this, I guess what I'm trying to figure out is whether the contingencies included change orders. I have. Are money built in for change orders? Yeah, I've been conservative with my estimates, so it should cover change orders, any design changes. The $600,000? The $600,000, yes. Okay. And will you know by the time of the next budget, will you have any idea of whether you need any more money, or is that too soon? That would be the first part of next year. Or council links, you know, is April, May. Yeah, because now if we have the $600,000, I can go ahead and start the design, and that's where we come up with the final numbers. We can have the design over the winter, come early spring. We should know what it's going to take to finish it out. So, yes. Okay. Well, I think this is a good compromise, and it gives you the go-ahead to finish the trail. So anyone else wish to speak to the amendment? To the amendment? Okay. Council Member Massadi. Thank you, Vice Mayor. I think we've got to be very, very careful here. We're spending tax dollars, and when we say we just threw it in, that doesn't give us very good credibility. So I appreciate that we've got this amendment and that we need to have our due diligence when we do these budgets, because if not, it doesn't say much for our credibility at all. Thank you. Anyone else wish to speak to the amendment? Okay. All those in favor of the amendment say aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? and then if you'll log in, that'll help our Granicus folks. We need one more vote. Oh, excuse me, there's one recusal. We're supposed to say why we recuse, Mr. Lane. I have disclosed this previously, but four or five years ago, So I did some consulting work for the developer at that time, and I've just recused myself on all votes since then. All right. Thank you. That motion passes 13-1. Now, does anyone wish to speak to the main motion to allocate to the legacy trail as amended $600,000 to finish it? I would like to give the chair to Mr. Ellinger. Excuse me. Vice Mayor? Thank you. Of course, I'm supportive of the motion and hope that the entire council will be. I did want to answer the question of other trails, because this list is simply a list that council members submitted. We all know that on every one of these items we have probably behind it 10 or 15 similar ones in the city. And part of the dilemma, I think, with our trails is that we never have enough money. We never have enough money. And people in Lexington, I remember a few years ago when the parks did their survey of Fayette Countians, and they asked, what are your top ten wishes in Fayette County, park-wise, and what are your top ten uses that you currently use? Do you know what number one was? Trails on both lists. And one of the things that I hope through this discussion that we will keep in mind as we go forward with every budget is that people in Fayette County want parks to have trails. They want our city to have trails. It's very important to people. And the reason we don't finish our trails is we don't allocate the money. So I appreciate the support this has gotten, and I think it's a great compromise that we came to. and maybe for those other trails that we haven't finished that were not submitted for this list, we can get those moving also. So thank you. Thank you, Mr. Ellington. I will pass the gavel back, Ms. Mayor. Appreciate it. All right. All those in favor of the motion on the floor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? No. and that motion passes 13-1 with one recusal. And now, we have now gone just about as long over into the work session as the 1 o'clock meeting went into this meeting, so I'm wondering if this is a good place to stop. What do you think? Do I hear a motion to adjourn? Do you think we could just terminate this meeting and then restart it after the work session and try to complete? We'll need to get a count of who could stay after work session to do that. How many people could not stay for, say, an hour after work session? Can you raise your hands high? Yeah. Five, six. Could not. They're about eight who can't stay. So I am happy to look for another date. Jonathan and Connie, can you give us a number of fund balance that we have left, please? The allocations so far are $8.398 million, and it's up on the screen as well. And so the remaining unassigned fund balance is $6,578,300. We didn't get too far, did we? We got a little ways down the trail. So we still have $6.5783 million in which to deal with. Do I hear a motion to adjourn? I hear several seconds, and I will look for a date that coincides with council's meetings. all those in favor of the motions on the floor to adjourn did you council member i had i had logged in and raised my hand i just wanted to go ahead make a statement um as we start moving down the list um you're right there are a million things that we need and i would like people to look at the amount of money that was spent on parks in different districts for the late items and look at what has been asked for in parks. Some of them got quite a lot. Some of them got very little. Some of them got none. and all our parks are important. But I think that in the meantime, that's an issue we really need to think about and look at. Thank you. All those in favor of adjourning, please say aye. Anybody opposed? We are adjourned. Thank you very much. Thank you.