My heart and soul is full of pain My mind is full of sad memories My heart and soul Is full of pain Since I lost your love baby You know my poor wife It don't mean a thing How could you do it to me, baby? Didn't you know you would break my heart? How could you? How could you do it to me, baby? Didn't you know you would break my heart? I thought you loved me like I love you But I guess you were just playing a part Now I went to see my doctor But I stopped outside the door Cause I knew that he would tell me What I already know You see a doctor, he can't fix no heartaches He can't even ease the pain What I need is your arms around me I'll never, never be the same It's a sad situation Italian blue As I can be When you booked yourself space on the plane, baby Oh, don't you know You booked some plane for me I said this the day you left, I said I gotta find me I've got to find me a part-time love I've got to find me I've got to find me a part-time love The next time my baby leave me I'm gonna get up Go out and get me A part-time love People in the cemetery They're not all alone Some turn to dust But some still have bone I'd rather be dead Sleeping in my grave I can't stand to be lonely Each and every day My woman came home this morning All I did was ask her where had she been You know what she said to me She said fool don't ask me no questions If you do I'll leave again Get out see I need to find me I got to find me a part-time love The night time my baby leaves I'm gonna get up Go out and get me A part-time love I found out the hard way Somebody I know I shouldn't say this Y'all don't want to hear this I'm going to say it anyway It's sleeping in my bed Somebody It's sleeping in my bed You know what make it hard to take? I'm still making payments on the bed You know what I'm saying? I know I should have been there Guess what? But I was someplace else instead Sleeping in somebody else's bed You see, I believe in fair play I gotta love somebody's baby Cause I tell you, somebody, somebody, somebody Showing love and mind And everybody Around me knew it That's what hurts But I was in the dark For such a long, long time I made up my mind That I'm gonna get What she's been Giving Get myself together And start living I'm gonna hold Somebody's baby Y'all can help me say this I tell you, somebody Shove and hold in mine The reason why I knew it Cause you know my baby told me Not so very long ago She said, I don't love you, Daddy And you gotta let me go That was too much fun That's why I walked the back street and cried It hurt me so bad To hear my baby say goodbye She said another reason And make me want to leave She said Milton you know you ain't got enough for nothing To keep me halfway clean I tell y'all that was too much for me Yeah That's why I walk the back street and cry Yeah It hurt me so bad You're my baby, say goodbye She said you're a good man, baby To treat me like you do Oh yeah She said, mm-mm, you ain't done nothing to me She said, but I ain't gonna stay here with you I stood and watched my baby As far as I could see And I tell you all the girls, she started running Have to wait in front of me It's too much for me Walk the back street and cry Can't hide me so bad I know a little bluebird I sure wish she would sing for me I tell you I know I know a little bluebird I sure wish she would sing for me She's been flying around so long I wish she would land in my dream Oh! Oh! Little Bluebird Please come mess with me I think I say it again a little louder No! You're a pretty little bluebird guitar solo I'm going down, baby My nose Is in the sand See, I said sand where my nose is but you can put your nose wherever you want it. That's your nose. Come on down, baby. My nose is in the sand. Yeah. Yes, it is. A cloud of dust has come over me. I'm sitting here singing me all this evening, but I feel like I'm drowning on dry land. And I bet this has something to do with it. Listen. My grandmother told me the story about the little nearsighted dog that didn't see too well. He was crossing the railroad track one day. And the train cut off a piece of his tail. For the first time in his life he decided to look up Just to peek back over the rail So I guess I'm just like the little dog that lost his whole head Trying to find a piece of tail Hang him up God bless you Little Milton Little Milton Little Milton What more can be said? Little Milton Little Milton Little Milton Little Milton guitar solo guitar solo That luck is falling, falling down like rain. That luck is falling, falling down like rain. No matter what I do, it seems like my luck won't ever take. The Board of Architecture Review, we appreciate those of you in attendance today. The board was established by zoning ordinance in 1958, and our first historic district was Gratz Park, and we now have a total of 15 historic districts. The board, which is appointed by the mayor and confirmed by the Urban County Council, is a part of the Division of Historic Preservation. The Historic Preservation Office maintains a full-time staff to assist you with your projects. The board encourages and recommends that applicants use them as a resource, and the Historic Preservation Office is located at 101 East Vine Street, Room 220. It is our procedure to consider applications in the order in which they are listed on the agenda. In each case, we will have a presentation by the staff and we'll hear any additional comments from the applicant. The board will then ask questions or make comments regarding the application and then hear comments from any other interested parties. The chair will then ask the board members to enter a motion. If you wish to address the board, please come to the microphone and state your name and address for the public record. We also ask that you write your name on the sign-in sheet by the door so that the information can be recorded correctly. I'd like to note the following staff approvals. Before we begin our review of applications, there are certain items that staff can approve, eliminating necessity for all applicants to appear before the board. There are a total of 55 approved applications noted on today's agenda. At 111 Deshaies Road in the Ashland Park Historic District, refurbished windows. Also in the Ashland Park Historic District at 315 Deshay Road, install right on pipe. At 338 and 340 Deshay Road, renovate garage and structure. 343 Deshay Road, replace front walk. 242 South Hanover, remove trees. 207 South Ashland. And these are in the South Ashland Central Historic District. Renovate structure at 218 South Ashland. Renovate structure at 237 South Ashland. Renovate structure at 247 South Ashland. Replace bulkhead and door. At 255 South Ashland Avenue, replace front entry and door. And then in the Aylesford Historic District, at 203 Arlington Avenue, replace beadboard ceiling. 210 Arlington Avenue, repair gutters. 317 Alesford Place, install gas meter. 320 Alesford Place, as well as 324. and 325 Aylsford Place install gas meters. At 325 Aylsford Place repair driveway and install patio. 328 Aylsford Place repair driveway and parking area. At 330 Aylsford Place repair driveway and parking area. And 331 Aylsford Place repair driveway and parking area. For 332 Aylsford Place reissue COA as well as repair driveway and parking area. At 332, 342, 345, and 346, Aylesford Place install gas meters, as well as 371, Aylesford Place. 375, Aylesford Place install two gas meters. At 131, Kentucky Avenue renovate structure. At 152, Old Park Avenue re-roof and re-line gutters. At 148, Woodland Avenue renovate front porch. 338, Woodland Avenue renovate structure. In the Bell Court Historic District at 605 Boonesboro Avenue Renovate Structure. At 141 West Bell Court, install fencing. At 222 Delmar Avenue, install radon pipe. In the Constitution Historic District at 232 North Limestone Renovate Structure. At Nailsmere Park Historic District at 629, Nailsmere Park Reverb Structure and Relaying Box Gutters. In the Gratz Park Historic District at 201 North Mill Street, renovate structure. 247 North Mill Street, Tuck Point, the structure. In the Mulberry Hill Historic District at 431 North Limestone, install plaque. In the Northside Historic District at 210 North Broadway, as well as 411 West 6th, 426 West 6th, and 440 West 3rd. All of those are to renovate structure. In the Seven Parks Historic District at 107 and 109 Arcadia Park, replaced driveway. Also in Seven Parks at 112 Dantzler Court, install fence. At 209 Dantzler Court, install fence. And at 1601 Elizabeth Street, restore door surround. In the South Hill Historic District at 331 South Mill Street, renovate structure. 329 South Mill Street, renovate structure. 432 South Mill Street repair replace vation soffit and 324 South Upper Street replace door in the western suburbs historic district at 601 West Short Street tugpoint to structure 612 West Short Street renovate structure and at 624 West Short Street restore fence we shall now proceed with the review of applications for certificate of appropriateness first case on the agenda this evening is at 436 West 3rd Street in the Northside Historic District where the applicant would like to install a pool. Mr. Bloomfield had a previous engagement and could not be here tonight and request that go ahead with the hearing of the project. Sure. Well, that being the case, and I appreciate that note, we don't always know. The staff has made a recommendation to approve. Pardon me, let me catch up with my paperwork. Staff has recommended approval as proposed with the following conditions, that the final details and location of the mechanical system be submitted to staff. If an additional perimeter fence is required, that details come back to staff for review and approval prior to the start of any work. and three, once reviewed by other LFCCG divisions, all changes come back to staff for review and approval prior to the start of any work. We've seen this case before, not in dispersion. Are there any comments or problems from the staff or from the board? Excuse me. Because I feel like it's pretty straightforward in the staff's recommendation. I completely agree with. I'd feel okay making a motion on it. We're hearing a motion. Mr. Chair, relative to case number 18800436-S, 436 West 3rd Street, I move that we accept the recommendations of the staff for approval with the following three conditions, that the final details and location of the mechanical system be resubmitted to the staff, or be submitted to the staff. Number two, if an additional perimeter fence is required, that the details come back to staff for review and approval prior to the start of any work. And number three, once reviewed by the other divisions, all changes come back to staff for review and approval prior to start of any work. Thank you. Second. Second. Are there any, before I ask if there are any other comments on the motion, is there anybody in the audience to speak to this case this evening? Just making sure. are there any other comments or discussion for this motion that being the case all those in favor please say aye aye all those opposed and the motion passes next case in the agenda this evening is a 440 West 3rd Street in the north side historic district and the scope of that work is to rebuild the rebuild and expand brick wall change driveway and remove trees the applicant did call me and said he had a 4 o'clock meeting so maybe we can push this back to the last case just in case he does appear. Sure. Well, I don't have a problem with that. We'll set it aside and come back. The next case on the agenda this evening is at 202 Arlington Avenue in the Aylesford Historic District, and the application there is to restore front porch. Is that applicant here this evening? Yes. If you'd like to come forward and introduce yourself, please. Give us your name and home address for the record. Sure. My name is Aaron Godlasky. I live at 202 Arlington Avenue. Good to have you here this evening. Thank you. So have you had a chance to review the status findings and recommendations? Yes. They were pretty favorable. I'll go through the recommendations. Are you in agreement with all the recommendations? Yeah. Great. Great. So just to review, those recommendations were, to approve with the following conditions. One, change the skirting lattice from diagonal shown to a vertical and horizontal detail. And number two, once reviewed by other LFUCG divisions, all changes come back to staff for review and approval prior to the start of any work. And you're okay with both those conditions. Is there strong feelings one way or the other for diagonal versus the vertical horizontal as long as it's privacy related? I think it's just been our preference for a while. It's not the same for every house, but I can't give you a strong answer on that. You know, sometimes diagonal is appropriate. Sometimes we've just had horizontal or vertical. I think in your case where you've asked to use, you know, a lattice or a cross, you know, two-part lattice work, in this instance they've said vertical or horizontal. We can certainly hear from the staff and hear what their reason for that recommendation is. I'd be curious too. The reason that we had that was from some comments Graham had made a few meetings back about a project on woodland. so thought that the board was urging us in that direction but we really have no strong feelings we know that the applicant would prefer the diagonal and as long as it wasn't like the inexpensive off-the-shelf lattice i think we would be fine with that i i tend to agree the the only opposition i have to the diagonal is the the very quarter inch stapled and glued stuff that falls apart so easily. Do we have a diameter of opening in these plans? I haven't gotten to look that closely. For your lattice, does it matter? No, I think I listed in the written portion just that it would be a privacy lattice, which would be. The real key would be to get you to commit either while you're standing here or back to the staff, depending on the board's interest of what they want to reflect in their motion, to lock in what would be the pattern and specifically about the diameter of the openings. Right. Because, of course, the whole undercurrent to this is to have small diameter openings. Small openings, correct. Right. Would that be something that might facilitate the outcome? Why don't we do this, then? And why don't we simply suggest that he come back to staff with final details of the lattice work for approval before work begins. You okay with that, Mayor? Would that work for you, sir? Yes. Okay. There are some instances, some homes, where I feel like the vertical or horizontal or diagonal have a strong place. Right. This one, I'm kind of ambiguous. It could be either way, and I'd be okay with it. Let's hear what the other board members have to say. If anything at all. Okay. I think it would be more common to see a horizontal and vertical as an original application. The diagonal, I don't think you would have seen on a house of this vintage. And my objection to it is it often is not well built and falls apart. I think what's more important is the frame around it and how it's fastened to the systems. If you do that well and it's set back and properly detailed, it'll last a long time and look good and serve you well. So that's certainly something that can come back to staff with the final details. Absolutely. Okay, so we just need to be particularly clear about the size of opening and if our preference is for the vertical or horizontal. I may go back to my wife and she'd say that the horizontal vertical is fine, and we'll just go with that. Well, so size of opening, thickness of materials, and then the attachment method. And then the kind of frame it has around it and how it hooks in structurally to your porch surround. Okay. So we'll need essentially what we're saying. We need the construction details in addition to the design details. Okay. We can do that. Very well. well all of that being the case any is there anybody audience speak to this case i see none i would certainly entertain a motion at this time mr chair regarding case number zero zero six one zero two zero two dash e 202 arlington avenue make a motion to approve application with following conditions have skirting lattice details go back to staff with regard to size of opening thickness of material and type of framing that will be used on that lattice work and then number two once reviewed by lfucg divisions all changes come back to staff for review and approval prior to start of work thank you very much is there a second to the motion i'll second any further discussion of the motion? All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. All those opposed, the motion passes with those conditions. Thank you very much. Thank you. Good luck with your project. Next case on the agenda this evening is a 701 East High Street in the Aylesford Historic District. That application is to install a new sign and install the new deck and railing over existing concrete ramp. The applicant received a copy of her staff report and of course she was postponed from the previous meeting. I did go and meet with her about that, but she is apparently not here. I was going to say that the applicant is not here, but this case was postponed from the previous meeting, obviously. So in the interim, I did meet with her to sort of discuss any issues, but she is not here. I don't guess you know if she intends to be here. I assumed she was going to be here from our previous conversation. Well, we're stuck in kind of a holding pattern then between 440 West 3rd Street and this project at 701 East High Street. Neither of which are very clear cut. We can go ahead and open the discussion on 701 East High Street and see if the applicant shows up. I don't disagree with the staff's recommendations. I think that part is pretty clear-cut, but I would think that the applicant would want to speak for themselves, and so I hesitate. Your deadline for action on that, because we've done an extension with this property, is June 28th, so technically there are two more meetings available under that agreement, just for your info. No, thank you. That's good information. It certainly gives us something to think about. I'll open to the board for just a conversation of how you'd like to proceed. I mean, do you feel like this is clear and we can move on it, or ought we wait and see what the applicant has to say? Who just showed up? This is your West 3rd Street gentleman. Being a hearing officer and doing hearings, I've always been of the opinion that when someone's given proper notice of a proceeding, that they do have an obligation to contact staff and make a formal request for postponement and not just blow us off. It creates disrespect and may create, unfortunately, a pattern in other people thinking they don't have to pay attention to the notice at all. We'll just move it on. And I think that it's important that if they have noticed that we proceed with the case, even though it may be a disapproval of their application and something as ambiguous as the front facade sign needs to be further studied, which I'm assuming reflects a disapproval of that sign as submitted. Is that correct? Correct. Okay. And I feel strongly that we should move forward and basically treat this as a default. They can always resubmit an application. The new designs, which will be treated as a new application, I assume. I didn't, I'm sorry, I didn't understand your last sentence. If they correct, if they, I recognize that they can't resubmit the original plans within a year, but if they submit amended plans. That are different enough. That are different enough, they'll be treated as a new application. And I think obviously that's where we are at this juncture. Right. It would, of course, as you're aware, be the board's determination whether or not there is enough new evidence to open that again. I recognize that, too. I'll tell you what, and you guys tell me what you think here. I think the applicant's here, 440 West 3rd Street. We can discuss that case with the applicant. If at that time that's complete and we're ready to talk about 701 East High Street, you know, we review it on what we have, and we can make our comments as needed. I think in the case of this case and the owners, or the staff's recommendations, I don't have a problem moving forward. It would be better if the applicant were here, but we can't help that. So if everyone's agreed, we'll just move on with 440 West 3rd Street and see what happens after that. If you'd like to come forward and introduce yourself, please. Give us your name and address for the record. Steve address Steve Grossman the address is 440 West Main Street every time I see Graham I get nervous I see him at the Y so I didn't recognize him with his clothes on here tonight laughter laughter laughter well we've gone to a strange place laughter laughter Why? So I wonder if you've had a chance to review the staff's findings and recommendations for your application at this time. The staff's findings? I have not. Well, for review, so we're all on the same page here, staff has recommended approval of the application with the following conditions. Once reviewed by any other LFCC division, all changes come back to staff for review. and approval prior to the start of any work, but they also recommend denial of the removal of the tulip poplar tree, and I wonder if you're in agreement with that. I'd actually like to have it. I'm a tree person. I plant, you know, 10 to 20 trees a year on my farm, so I'm a tree person. This one, we've had problems with roof damage due to the raccoons accessing the roof, and I think I submitted in the proposal there the damage that was done not only to the roof but the interior part of the attic. I do not live there. This has been a rental piece of property for me for several years. And I've had the credit control has probably been out seven or eight times on different occasions, and the damage not only to that end but also to the back part of the house has been a continual problem. In addition to that, you know, and I know the size of the tree, but it's no grass can be grown there. It covers, it's a beautiful Warfield grass design house, and it's actually striking. We've gone through and repainted everything, shutters, and I would like to open it up, one, because of the damage, but I think aesthetically it is more attractive to have it open a little bit more. our plans is to completely landscape the front, have a little bit more balanced approach to the landscape. Sure. Well, I appreciate what you're saying, and what I'd like to do is have the staff make their presentation, and we can limit it to just the part about the poplar tree. If you're in agreement to the other staff recommendation, which is for approval, we can discuss that portion, hear the staff's report on that portion, then come back, and we may have comments or questions for you after that. Okay. She might want to be where you're standing for that. Sorry. This, of course, is 440 West 3rd Street, and of course the whole scope of work is to rebuild and expand the existing brick wall, a new brick wall, and then change the driveway and to remove the trees. The particular tree in question is this tulip poplar right here. and then and here's another this was taken about a month and a half ago before it completely flourished and then the proposal as you can see in the landscape plan that was put forward was to continue the boxwoods around and put put another dogwood here and then there's a dogwood sort of hiding back here that will be moved forward And then, Randy, if we could go to the attachments to the plan. and so this is the proposed plan of continuing the boxwoods around here and then to put the replace the teal poplar here with the dogwood and then and have more hydrangeas and in this particular area. Guidelines are included for your reference. The tree arborist has also visited the site with us to look at this tree. He's determined this tree to be healthy. The tree is, of course, obviously over 10 inches in diameter. And within the findings, the proposal to re-landscape is within the guidelines. However, staff finds the tulip poplar is significant and needs to be retained. Staff suggests that the tree be pruned in lieu of removal. In Guidelines 3, 6G states, trees with trunks greater than 10 inches in diameter should not be removed unless diseased or unsafe. And, of course, recommendation. Staff recommends denial of the removal of the tulip poplar. And the applicant is here. I'd like to come on back up. We'll give you a hard time. Can I ask you a question? Yes, sir. How old is that tree? Do you know by any chance? I don't. I don't. Okay. What are your thoughts on the staff's recommendations for pruning over removal as you tried to prune the pool? Well, if you go back to the picture, I think we've already limbed it up from that current. Limbed it up from the side of the house or limbed it up from the ground? From the bottom. Okay. Okay. You can, depending on, you know, you're going to cross-cut the, I guess, the tree. Do you have? Yeah. There we go. So you'd be taken off that section there. What are your thoughts if you were to try to remove the limbs that are against the house? Well, you can do that. It's a continual process. But I don't know how far. I don't know how raccoons work. But they seem to get up there quite a lot, whether they go up, jump across. However, I don't know how they do it myself. But I've spent probably close to $1,000 on repairs for the raccoons. I guess I'm kind of a symmetrical guy, like kind of balance and so forth. And I want some higher, you know, on the corners. You know, the boxwoods have lower trees like the dogwoods that are kind of in front of the house to kind of get a little bit more balance. You also got leaf issues and so forth with the gutters. Well, I'm just trying to feel out what your thoughts are and maybe what's been tried before now. You know, what would be terrible is if you removed the tree and you still had a raccoon problem. Now there's a perfectly healthy tree that's gone that you still have the problem. Well, we basically have removed every tree because the other possibilities were between that house and the house to the right of it. And there were several trees that had grown up, and so we had removed those as well. But they were, you know, those were like volunteers that had just grown up because of neglect, so to speak. And so we've kind of cut those trees out. And so we've still had raccoons, you know, coming up. There's no other, except for those trees and that tree, that can't access the roof from any other section. I certainly sympathize with you. I have a home where some previous owner has planted many trees far too close to the home. And one day I'll have to make an application to do something about it myself. I'm surprised KU's come out to my place and want to cut down about eight trees that were all right next to the electric lawn. I can see where they've whittled out a route right through there for their lawn. Are there other comments or questions? I think Ron was on the right track. How old is that house? I think it's like the 1940s. Does that sound great? It looks like it's a reasonably recent construction. Yeah. But you have no idea when that tree was actually planted, although it's probably not too—the tree looks young, quite frankly. Well, they're not that slow-growing a tree, but it's not that young, I don't think. I would say it's—I planted a whole row of red sunset maples in my driveway probably 12 years ago when they're not half that size. Yeah, maples grow fairly quickly. I would like to have an education from the staff. How did we land up with an absolute 10-inch, and that be the only criteria for determining whether a tree is historic or not? I'm not sure how we got there, because a lot of these trees have been inappropriately planted and, frankly, are nuisances to the houses themselves. The 10 inch is not a measure upon which to base your decision. It is a measure upon which determining whether they need to pursue a permit. So your 10 inch is a threshold that if it is that or greater, they need to pursue a review and a permit. It is not a commentary whether the tree is significant or healthy or contributing to the property and the streetscape or any of the things that you weigh when you're weighing the tree specific that is requested to get that permit. But the design guideline says that you cannot remove a tree if it's greater than 10 inches. Is that not correct? Without a permit. And then your regulations apply, so you've determined it's greater, 10 inches or greater, therefore you need a permit, and then it kicks into what are the rationales that need to be weighed when it's being decided whether or not a tree should be removed. And the only rationale is whether it's unsafe or diseased. That's correct. The intent is to retain the sizable trees in the old neighborhoods. Would it be helpful if, because the issue is, as Mr. Dickens pointed out, was the fact that the proximity of the house, I love a tulip poplar. I have several out of my farm. if we say, okay, let me remove that, do my tree stuff here, and I'll plant another sizable tulip hoplar more towards the road out in front of where that is as opposed to so close to the house. And that's a good mitigation plan. That goes a long way. We've had several other applications where a diseased tree or the like was being requested to be removed and a large tree was being proposed to go back in its place or in a better, in this instance, obviously we wouldn't want you to put a tree in a harmful location too near the house as this one is. I think that's a great part of the conversation and certainly goes a long way as far as how I feel about the removal of this tree. Isn't this tree's trunk sort of equidistant between the sidewalk and the main elevation of the house? Am I missing interpreting that? It probably is, I would say so. Because in terms of a tree canopy, it is centrally located into the green space. You know, when trees are close to houses, they're usually two feet from the foundation or three feet from the foundation. for what will be, by its variety, a sizable mature tree. They've really kind of selected the central point to give it an opportunity to grow in all directions, and that's tied to our recommendation to trim off on the toward the house side. If you go too much toward the sidewalk, the utilities are going to be right back upon you in terms of topic. But you've got utilities, I think, running through it this way from the street as is. Going back to the house. Yeah. Right. If we can work out so we can get all the utilities underground, that'd be great. We'll count on you to make that initial first commitment. I'd love to do that. Well, I mean, I know tulip poplars grow really fast, and I know they're a really tall tree. I'm just wondering if we could, I mean, the fact that the house is covered up by the tree, and we know it's not an original tree to the house, that we couldn't go back and do something, you know, plant a different tree in there that maybe goes along, maybe not what he's asking for, but maybe something that does have a little bit more verticality that could replace that tall tulip tree. I mean, that's just my... Without damaging the house in the future. That's correct. Right. Because we had a tulip poplar in front of our house, and I remember one year it looked like it was, you know, you could touch the top of it, and two years later it was... Yeah, yeah. I mean, they grow really fast, so... Out of my farm, I've planted certain trees in certain spaces that are actually close, but they're very tall, and the width of their canopy or their sides are pretty narrow, so I don't get that cumbersome on the buildings themselves. So that's my two cents. I'm not sure in our conversation we're any closer to one direction or the other. or at least that's my feeling or my sense from what we've said so far well we haven't heard from rand yet do you have any comments or observations ran or i think you guys are doing a great job well i'll make one other observation because i've had raccoon problems too and we pruning in my case pruning worked but if you got raccoons getting into the attic obviously they can impose a unsafe condition to the house they have a nasty habit of getting into electrical wires and doing other things and so arguably by extrapolation the tree is presenting an unsafe condition for the home itself which might warrant and justify it's being replaced by another tree of similar size but further away from the house so that you don't have a an issue. Have you actually explored with an arborist how you could do a pruning of the tree that would keep its symmetrical appearance and yet keep the limbs off the roof and wait? Well, alternatively, there are barriers that you can create to keep raccoons out. I've scrubbed the trunk with Clorox. Really? Yeah, because they said that they fall out like a urine scent and so forth. I've done that. And it didn't work? No, I haven't. You know, we haven't. There are mechanisms by which you can keep the raccoons out of the tree. Shotgun. For me? Yeah, for me. Shotgun. A little electric eye. You know, I don't know how tall the tool plopters get to be pretty large. My issue is, like I said, the house area eventually is going to be taller than the house. So you wouldn't, if you limbed it up enough, I just don't want to limb it up. So, well, one, you limb it up so you've got light that comes in because it's just dirt right around that because no grass can grow because there's just no sun that hits it. So because I wanted to come in and there's an irrigation system there that we're fixing, but we're going to sod all that area as well. But if it's so much shade, it's just kind of problematic as far as being able to grow grass. If I limb it up tall enough, that might help as far as giving some added sunshine. But all of a sudden, you don't want just a whole, you know, top canopy that's like this and the tree is that long. I mean, I don't think that would look very attractive myself. The staff recommendation was with an eye more toward trimming it back off the house. We really weren't suggesting, you know, all the way around. Like I said, Tim suggested to go ahead and limb it up. So we've already done that. Which is an option. Yeah. So I'm sorry. The lemming effort that's already occurred was after this picture was made? It was before this picture was made. So we can see the work that's been done as far as the lemming goes of this tree. And it has been brought up off the ground. That's correct. But no effort has been made to bring it off the backside as far as creating some distance between the edge of the canopy and the house. That's correct. Which, you know, if you could back it off the house far enough, you hope that you're beyond a raccoon's leap. Yeah. Yeah, there we go. When was that picture taken? That's recent. No, that's before we put the shutters up, but that's... That was about a month ago. That's after you limbed it up? Yeah, that's been limbed up. And you're still having... See, I don't see the branches being dense enough to support a raccoon. They're pretty heavy. That's what I think. That's why I get a little baffled on this thing, how they do it. Did they install an elevator next to your house? Pardon me? My tenant thinks they did. They're very clever, for sure. They're honoring. Once they're there, they're there. I would note that the utility poles on the corner of your drive, right between the sidewalk and the street. Yeah, there's one right there. Yeah, which means that if you were to plant a tree closer to that, you'd have a problem with that power line. Eventually, yeah. It would run right over the top of it. I think Betty kind of straightened us out on that, too, when she described the location of the tree being in the center of the yard, where any larger tree that comes back to replace this consideration has to give in to the shape of the tree. But there are lots of trees that thrive in small spaces that could work. but the problem is it the height would never be what that is because of the power line unless you were to move it to the other corner of the yard swamp oak pardon me swamp oak swamp oak they apparently do really well in the strip between the sidewalk on the street well there's many uh pin oaks that i've had that borash thing i mean we've cut down 10 of them well yeah they have a limited life yeah well you know or you know the urban streetscapes you know you know like the stuff we planted at the triangle park you know along there it's limited life even even though those imperial honey locusts have a long lifespan. It's just salt and everything that comes up on them. Well, we've kind of talked ourselves into two different directions. Let me see if I can pin them down. One direction of the conversation has been to try to limb up the backside of the tree and create more space between the tree and the house itself. that's certainly one direction I think that falls that's the staff recommendation and as far as we know or can tell from what you've said that hasn't been tried yet even though limbing up from the ground has been done and then the other thought is to remove this tree and replace it with an appropriate species and in an appropriate location to be determined I think if that were chosen that second half of that conversation could be between you and the staff. And if it needed to come back to us for review, it could. But I think you'd have a lot of latitude to work with the staff there given that direction on selecting a tree that fits the yard and in a location in the yard that doesn't create future problems against the house or the power lines or the pole and that sort of thing. Was there that? I think those are the two directions, right? Yeah. So without any strong direction one way or the other from the group, you know, my personal thought is, other than being a route for raccoons to your house, it's a good-looking, healthy tree. And it's a – I would hate to remove it and then find out that, you know, there's still a problem with the raccoons. I wonder if we can't prune it and see. I mean, is that something you will try to prune it? And then if it's still a problem, you know, come back and we'll talk about removing it. And if it is a problem, if you've read documentation of how the damage they have done to the house. Yeah, I haven't been inside to see the attic yet, but I know that we've had. And I sympathize. The trees I mentioned that were too close to my house is Raccoon Highway or Squirrel Highway right to my attic. That's where they all hang out, my attic. Well, can we say we'll go ahead and we've limited up, we'll prune it off there, we'll see how that goes. And if we're still having issues, then I'll get back with Amelia and maybe we can get Tim Query to come in and we can kind of look at that site with the possibility at that time to look at what might be a suitable. I think that's a good idea. Then we're not jumping too far ahead. If this middle solution is good, you can keep this good-looking tree. and hopefully get rid of your raccoon problem at the same time. And you could plant another one on the other side of your front walk, and then you would have symmetry. Symmetry, you're exactly right. It's very simple. You know, I haven't thought about that. Anyway, I'm going to ask the question. If we disapprove the popular tree and he does the limb up and say in the next two or three months he still has a raccoon problem, is he going to have a difficulty resubmitting his application to remove the tree? I think that the simplest thing would be to suggest to you consider to withdraw your application to cut it down in light of what you've just said you're willing to do, which is to trim it. And then it would make the waters simpler if you did need to come back and make an application to cut the entire tree down. The distinction is if they vote today to deny the application, which they have to vote yes or no, they're not really in a position to say, keep the tree for a while and come back. That can't be a procedural outcome. It will be cleaner for you if you do need to make applications to cut the whole thing down. There is a regulation that if action has been taken on any application, that whatever that action is, is not to be revisited for 12 months. unless there's something dramatically changed. Since this is all of a kin discussion, I think it would, if I were suggesting, I think it would be simpler for you to not have to make a case that there's additional evidence and therefore it needs to be reopened and all that. There's no downside to withdrawing it. There's no penalty against you for when it comes forward again, if indeed it were to, it becomes irrelevant, whether it's already been discussed. Let me see if I understand what you're saying. As far as this, basically, we can have this just completely strike that out, or do I need to come back with a new application? Your option is twofold. The board can act on it today, yes or no, about your request to demolish it. Now, we're not talking about your whole application because the other portions obviously are already in the works. Well, let's just go ahead and move to strike that. Okay. Okay. And that way is to say there's no plus or minus to that outcome. It leaves you positioned at what you've just said you would like to do as proceeding in concurrence with the board, and it leaves the door open down the pike for you to start this discussion further with a new application. There's no requirement for you to make an application to prune the backside of the tree. So you can withdraw this portion from your application, try the pruning effort, and if it doesn't work, come back with a new application to remove the tree. Okay. And we'll go from there. We won't have to have the whole conversation over again, but we'll. Yeah, and definitely bring, if you can bring damage to your house and, you know, a recommendation for another tree to go in there, it would go a long way. And my five Daniel Boone raccoon skin caps. Absolutely. I was just going to ask you to bring the raccoon. That's not required. Please don't do that. Okay, so that being the case, what I think I've heard is that the tree removal has been withdrawn from the application. and in front of us then is the staff recommendation to approve with the condition that it come back to staff if there are any changes after LFUCG review. And I think you would agree with that part of the staff's recommendation. Sorry, there's no one else left in the audience to speak to this case, I don't think. So all of that being the case, I would entertain a motion at this time. Mr. Chair regarding case number one eight eight zero zero four four zero dash F at 440 West 3rd Street I make the recommendation to approve the application As submitted Once reviewed by any other LFU CG divisions all changes come back to staff for review and approval prior to start of work thank you very much is there a second to the motion i'll second that motion thank you any further discussion of the motion all those in favor please say aye aye all those opposed and the motion passes with that recommendation great i do want to add though the million that group over there have been very very helpful in the whole process this is my virgin run at this thing you know so thank you for saying good appreciate it well that brings us back to 701 East High Street. Again, the applicant does not appear to have arrived. I think we should proceed. It's, I think it's pretty clear cut based off staff recommendations and my understanding of the guidelines. I'd like to hear Amelia's report or I don't know if it's Amelia anymore or not, the staff's report. And we'll go from there. This is 701 East High Street, and we actually saw this case several years ago with the installation of a rear porch, and they took there was a solid porch, and they took it back to a screen porch, or an open porch system. And of course this was a previous Kauffman Beauty School, and so it has been turned into residential units. And so there are five units in this building. This particular front door piece accesses one of the units. And so per my conversation with the property owner, they wanted to have a front porch deck, and on inspections they started to install one. And so this was staff stopped the work on February 27th where they were installing this porch system over top of the handicap ramp with a PVC railing system. The stegma system is composite, and it is on a wood slab. The property owners did check with right-of-way. There was no right-of-way issues. so they just wanted to install this system here. I assume those two pillars are the rest of the port system that they just stopped. That's correct. You know, for the longest time, I thought that was just a Photoshop example until I actually saw it. Correct. It just looks really odd, the way it's put in there. Right. And so this sort of gives you a little closer view of that. And, of course, it's obviously not finished to this work stop. During a conversation, the applicants also, you know, and they've talked to us previously about wanting to have signage that would advertise or put the address and have the name of the condominiums, which is the 701 luxury units. they did have to change the sign up to take off the one bedroom set or take off one of the signs of the signage name I think is one direction so there is a sign we'll see later on that cleans that up a little bit so they were proposing to put a sign between these two windows and then this is the rear of the structure in its this particular porch that was opened up that was closed and opened up that we went before the board for or they went before the board for to open that up and put a new railing system in and so they want to also install a new sign in this particular location and this is sort of a another view of that and this is the location of the sign is that sign there now or is that no okay the signs have not been installed the banner pieces are there, but they will be removed if the sign is proposed to go forward. This is their plan for the deck on the front, or the porch on the front. The door has been worked out, so this is not part of that proposal. They're putting a full light door back in. And this is their proposed plan in plan form. And then this is their proposal for the signs that just says 7-1-1 at Chevy Chase Apartments, but then phone number in the two locations. This is just sort of something we saw before. And these will be flat against the building. The guidelines, of course, are included for the reference. Staff finds the design, scale, materials of the proposed porch are inappropriate, not within design guidelines. According to the Sanborn maps in the KHC survey form, this property was historically a commercial storefront. It had residential on the second floor in the rear. The porches on the side and the rear indicate a residential portion of the building, while the commercial storefront is not original and has been replaced it is still a commercial building on the front storefront the proposal to install porch making the front commercial storefront a residential is incongruent with the style of the building and not within the guidelines 2a1 3 which states patios should be compatible in the scale materials with the principal structure and surrounding buildings along the block and within the district and should be compatible with the principal structures, architectural style, and not be of an earlier architectural period that give a building imitation history and appearance and are not allowed. In addition, the use of composite flooring and PVC railing are not appropriate or within the guidelines. The use of PVC railing is not within the guidelines. The guidelines state that the use of vinyl is not permitted. Guidelines 2B1F and J state respectively, porches and decks should be compatible in scale, materials with the principal structure, and materials in surrounding buildings and areas where strong continuity materials texture and material color is a factor in the continuity use of materials is strongly recommended the concept of installing signage on the structures with the guidelines however is proposed the scientist needs further discussion the proposed sign in location the front sign is out of scale with this building it is too large and visually distracting in addition it appears to be competing against the two windows staff suggest a smaller sign a different location be further studied the proposal for the signage in the rear of the building appears to be appropriate and not overwhelm the rear of the structure guidelines vc state signs should be sized in proportion to the building and relate to and complement not overwhelm the site in the building street and avoid oversized signs i will stop here and just add that in my previous meeting With the applicant, I sort of tried to suggest they use that band that's already there for signage to go above the windows below that. And she was not wanting to do that because she was really trying to make this residential and not a commercial structure, so she was not wanting to use that existing location, which has always been used as signage. So I just want to tell you that was a conversation that was had with her about where further studying and signage should go. recommendation staff recommends disapproval of the front porch as proposed staff recommends approval of the rear signs with the following conditions once reviewed by any other LPC divisions all signage come back to staff for review and approval prior to the start of any work and staff suggests the front facade sign be further studied and of course the applicant is not here and that last further study was to sort of look at the location of any signage be in that band that's above the storefront. Could I add one thing to the staff report? I think on the sign possibilities be further studied, at this point, since this case has gone on for a long time, in the sense of extended and so forth, you've had discussion with the property owner about encouraging that a sign belongs above the commercial storefront architecture of this building. Has she refused or indicated she is totally unwilling to submit that? She is. In that case, I would recommend that the staff recommendation for both the signs, for the all but the back sign, be for disapproval. I was coming to the same conclusion in that the applicant's not here for us to sort of steer that conversation or make recommendations on how that conversation proceed with the staff. You know, if we were to deny it now by vote and the applicant were to come back with a different location that was approvable, I think it'd be an easy application to open up again because it would be, it would have to be different than this in order for us to consider passing it as well as even consider discussing it again. So I feel comfortable making more of a clean motion in that way on this issue. Well, I think the staff would like to tweak its recommendation to reflect similar to what you expressed and what I expressed a few moments ago. No, I appreciate you saying so. I'll just say for myself, I completely agree with the staff's recommendations as submitted. And I'm a little let down, too. I had to check with Ron. I do remember this case coming before the board before for some additional work with the porch. So we know that this applicant knows the process. Was it the same owner at that time when we saw it before? I mean, I think the builders represented the owner in the previous situation. Correct. During my conversations, she felt like she already thought that this plan was approved. Of course, staff also did check to make sure that there was no deck or porch, whatever, on the front of the building, which there wasn't on any of the plans. Well, that's unfortunate that that might have been the applicant's understanding. but that's incorrect. So, again, that's a bummer that work was done without an application, and I wish it were different. Any other thoughts or comments from the board at this time? That being the case, we're out of participants in the audience to speak to this case. I would certainly hear a motion at this time. Mr. Chair, regarding case number 09290701-H, 701 East High Street, I move to make the, or follow the recommendations of the staff for this application. and that is to disapprove the front porch signage. Also, to approve the rear signage with the following recommendation, once reviewed by other LFUCG divisions, all changes come back to staff and review and prior to start of work. I think, Ron, a friendly amendment. I think what you meant to say was that we recommend that we accept the disapproval of the front porch. Yes, I misread that. You're correct. And I would like to add that we also want to disapprove the front facade signage as submitted. I'll second. Do you wish, however, to, I think you've reflected this, but you might help to articulate it, if you would, that you are approving the sign on proposed for the rear elevation? Yes. And I realize that's in accordance with the staff recommendation, but given the divvying up of this, I thought it might be helpful. Yes. I do recommend the approval of the rear signage with the one condition that LFECG needs to review it and if there's change that comes back to staff. Thank you. If you don't mind before we vote on this. Would you just restate the recommendations? Yes. As you see them? I will be more than happy to. I appreciate that. Thank you. Chairman. recommendation number one disapprove the front porch as proposed recommendation number two approve the rear signage with the following condition once reviewed by all of ucg divisions all changes come back to staff for review and approval prior to start of work and then three disapprove the front facade signage as proposed. Thank you very much for that clarification. Is that what you understood when you seconded the motion? Yes, I did. Second. Excellent. Any further discussion of the motion? Hearing none, all those in favor, please say aye. Aye. All those opposed, and the motion passes with those recommendations. The next case in the agenda this evening has the applicant has requested to postpone that until June 10th. Can I get a motion to that effect, please? So moved. And a second. Very well. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. All those opposed, and the motion to postpone passes. The final item on the agenda this evening is to review and approve the Board of Architecture Review Minutes from April 22, 2015. I was not present, so I have no comment. but if the others have had a chance to review that if there are any comments to make please please move the approval of the april 23 board of architectural minutes for april well do you say other than mine 22nd okay april 22nd so there's a change i have another um issue that i would like um to confirm and it may need to be done by the staff and that is under the on page three there's a list of conditions relative to the demolition of the garage and a building of a new garage and my memory may be faulty but i think that we asked that the hardy siding in on a part of the garage would have a four inch exposure so that it contrasted with the eight inch siding on other walls where it's matching other walls i might be wrong about that but if the staff could check that record on that i believe that the elevation showed no siding on that wall the south wall and we want it was recommended to have six inch exposure to match the other to match the others oh but we can certainly review the the audio to double check confirm yeah just confirm that i'd be glad to i might be remembering this from another case but i do remember a discussion about whether there was enough of a contrast between a six inch exposure and an eight inch exposure i too remember that but i can't remember the numbers we'll check thank you any other comments uh hearing none i think there was a motion made second second any further Any further discussion of the motion? All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. All those opposed. And the minutes are adopted pending that verification by the staff. That brings us to the end of the agenda this evening. I would entertain a motion to adjourn. So moved. Second. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. And we're adjourned. Thank you. Thank you. guitar solo Bad looking for it