I just can't buy, I don't care too much for money, money can buy me love, buy me love, love, buy me love. guitar solo Thank you. guitar solo guitar solo guitar solo Thank you. ¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶ I guess we can get started if everybody wants to have a seat. Okay. All right. Thank you. We will begin our General Government Social Services Committee, February 2, 2016. And the first item on the agenda is the approval of the committee summary. Is there a motion? It is approval. Second. Okay. I think, was that Council Member Scutchfield made the motion and seconded by Council Member Akers. Is there any discussion? There being no discussion, all in favor, please say aye. Any opposed? All right, thank you. We'll move on. And our first item is the aquatics program design presentation. and I know Council Member Scotchfield has been working on this item and it's my understanding that this item is going to require more than the standard 15 minutes presentation so I believe 25 minutes would be in order if there is a motion to that effect. All right, Council Member Scotchfield made a motion seconded by Council Member Akers to extend the time to 25 minutes. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right, thank you. and Councilmember Scutchfield. Thank you, Chair. It has been an absolute pleasure to work with this committee that's gotten together to work on the aquatics plan. Many thanks to our Parks and Recreation Department for bringing this forward and working with our consultant to bring what we have in front of us today. Thank you to Councilmember Brown and Councilmember Bledsoe for serving on the committee. We also had a great group of people that represented personal interest in the aquatics program as well as professional swim teams. We had YMCAs. We had a lot of people that came to the table so that we had a good representation of all the interests that need to be looked at. I guess I'll go ahead and have you all come up to the stand and you all can give the presentation and then we'll do questions after. Thank you, Monica. Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Lamb and the Council Members Brown and Bledsoe and Scotchfield, who served on our committee, giving us a lot of guidance through this process. I'm going to introduce Pat Hoagland with Branstetter Carroll. He's going to be giving our presentation today and our update. Thank you. Thank you, Monica. It's great to be back here again. We were here back in October and made a presentation at that point where we had discussed some of the current issues facing the aquatics, the timeline for the master plan, the goals, and also the master plan progress at the time. Let me... Maybe the wrong one. There we go. Some of the demographics, and we also answered some questions at that point. What we're going to be talking about today is quickly going through some location analysis, see where some of the facilities are currently located and where they should be, the goal for aquatics in the future, some exciting concept plans for what how you could improve your pools, and then some various projects packages of how you could put some of these projects together in a coordinated effort, and then some opportunities for fees and revenue and also then answering questions at that point. This is the the current service areas for the pools and what you see is here in the green is everything within five minutes of a current pool or neighborhood pool or aquatic center what's in yellow or anything within a 10-minute drive of the family of outdoor aquatic centers that's the larger pools at southland woodland castlewood and tates creek what this shows is basically in the northwest and in the east where you see these little dots the The dots represent, I think, 40 people each. That's where the people live. You see these gaps that the committee has called the aquatic desert. So those are areas that are missing, and those are also the growth areas of the community. And as we did some analysis, and I showed you last time, some demographics of people living within poverty and lower socioeconomic factors, there's several neighborhoods in those areas also that have that. So there's some needs in those areas as well. So on this map, there's also the maps from the HOA and neighborhood pools, the YMCAs, health and fitness clubs as well, are mapped there as well. Some of the goals of this process are just mainly to increase the things that are listed here, the equity and service throughout the city, the fun that residents can have, fitness among the community, the safety of the people that attend the pools, the shade is something we heard quite a bit in the public input, accessibility of the pools and meeting the accessibility guidelines and requirements, the financial stability of the aquatic facilities, and there was a lot of discussion in the public input of developing some year-round opportunities as well. We'll go right into the recommendations that would have shown here. First is to take Shilato Pool and change it from an underperforming large body of water and developing it into what we call a regional aquatic center. They'll be released, served citywide. And we'll show you the reasons for that and why that was the logical location in a minute. Then there will be seven family aquatic centers. Right now you have four. So we're going to upgrade the four existing family aquatic centers with some improvements. and then take the neighborhood pool at Douglas Park and change that into an aquatic center. And then ultimately two new family aquatic centers to fill those voids in the northwest and the east. And then six different spray grounds, and we'll show you some pictures of those. Two or three of those would be stand-alone spray grounds or in parks without a pool. And that would be Jacobson and Masterson Station to fill some of that void soon. And then also discussions of an indoor aquatic facility as a public-private partnership. So then with the new pools, basically at Masterson Station of Jacobson, and those general areas, but that's where you own land, so that was the logical areas to look at. You can see from the earlier maps, that yellow extends out quite a bit further than it did on the other maps. So we really fill those voids by the development of those two facilities. Currently, I think about 48% of residents are within a five-minute drive of an aquatic center, and it'll increase to 51. So that's not a huge increase. But right now, about 86% of the population lives within a 10-minute drive of an aquatic center, and that'll go up to 96%. And then looking at the Shiltoe Regional Center, 95% of Lexington residents live within a 20-minute drive of that facility. So it's accessible to a lot of people. Let me show you the concept here for Shelatoa Park. Right now, there's the 50-meter pool and then a diving L in this area. So that's the 50-meter pool and a diving L there. What we're proposing is basically rebuilding that existing pool to keep the 50 meters that's desired by a lot of the swim teams and competitive groups, but adding some really exciting features. A key one that a lot of people ask for is this lazy river. It's about 640 feet long, a little longer than the one in Frankfurt. That would be a great place for people of all ages to float in the water, to walk with or against the current. That's a great senior activity we found in a lot of places as well. Another exciting thing is two large slides in this area that goes into a plunge pool, just like some of your smaller slides do now, but the added feature is we'll put warm water in that pool. So we can take some of the senior programs and the senior aerobics programs that are currently taking place at Pickadome, and then when that closes, they go to Tate's Creek or other locations, move them here to a pool that's got a ramp, it's got steps, and a lot of other features that the seniors can benefit from. So you'll have the warm water there and also a good place for lessons in a little bit warmer water. Some of those morning swim lessons in the beginning of June are pretty cold, so it's going to be a good place for that. Because we've got all these other additional facilities, we'd have a new bathhouse, a pool house at that location to replace the one that's there because we need more room. We'll have a family activity pool here. We'll have a family slide. It'll have an interactive play feature right here, zero-depth entry. That's like walk down like a beach. this is a large shade structure you'll have a concession area concession area here and the shade structure here and then relocating the large blue one that you have out there now then another feature is the spray ground over on the corner the nice thing about having the spray ground on the edge of this facility is that after the pools close when school starts you can keep the spray ground open and keep the rest of the pool closed so we need to make sure we had access to some restrooms on that end of the building, but you could do that. And we're proposing that at some other locations as well. So this is an opportunity that will really enhance all of Shillow Thill Park in quite a bit of the warmer months of the year. At Castlewood, we're making, not doing any major things other than we're taking the small wading pool out and putting a spray ground in that location, also at the edge, so that could be used before this main swim season. Putting a larger slide in, putting an additional water play feature in the shallow water area, and several more shade structures throughout. We'll add a family restroom building, restroom inside the building as well. There's an unused concession area that we could repurpose for that. And those are the main, and adding the shade are the main things at that facility. Douglas is one that we'll be upgrading from a neighborhood pool to an aquatic center. And right now there's basically an L-shaped pool, and we're trying to keep within the limits of that existing pool. So the existing pool is right about here, other than we're sort of blowing it out on this one end to put a zero-depth access in. so that meets some of your handicap accessibility, provides some water play features. And that's one of the problems at Douglas now is that there's not much to do there. The same with shillatel. There's not a whole lot to do there. There's no shallow water other than the baby pool with one little mushroom feature in there. So this will provide some other activities. There'll be a slide in this area. And because we didn't have a body of water to put it into, it's going to be what we call a run-out slide. So it just goes into a trough that has water in it so you don't have to have a whole other body of water. Keeps the cost down. We will have a spray ground on the corner, like we talked about at the other pools. And then if you know the area now, the bathhouse that's been there forever is in the back of the park, back of the pool. So you have to walk around the pool, into the pool house, and then into the pool. I don't know why it was done that way back when that was originally done, but it just doesn't make sense. So we're going to put the new pool house in the front, because it's really difficult to improve what you've got. So you've got a new pool house, spray ground, zero-depth access, a climbing wall and a diving board, and some more shade and a slide at that location. So without spending too much at that site, we can make that a much more functional facility, much more attractive to the neighbors. Next is Southland. that's the most used facility that you've got, most heavily used, the most profitable of all the facilities, because there's so much for the kids to do, a variety of things. We heard that a lot in the public input process. But it can be made better. One thing that we need to do, the new accessibility requirements require that all waiting pools have zero depth access. So we'll have to extend the end of the waiting pool to have a large access with zero depth. providing you see some shade structures throughout the site, adding those, general improvements to the pool, and then we put a taller slide in, just basically replacing what's there with something that's more exciting and taller. We're also going to move the bathhouse. When that pool was redeveloped in the mid-90s, mid to late 90s, the bathhouse stayed the same. Nothing was done to that, so we could spread the money out further. So we'll move that closer to Hillandale Road to provide some drop-off area here. Right now only one car can come in and sort of block the traffic there. So it would improve that. But by moving the bathhouse, we can get the concessions out of this small building and move it into the same building. We can add a party room for rentals. And add the family restrooms and other things that we can do in a new facility in that location. woodland not a tremendous amount of things we can do there again it's pretty tight on the site it's one of your your second best their most used facility but there we are adding some some shade structures throughout the area a taller slide and generally fixing up some leaks adding a family restroom just making it just a better environment really couldn't go any further there's a lot of Underneath the decks, there's a lot of hollow area from the old filtration system. So we had to put smaller shade structures in because of that. So that's one that we're just basically enhancing what you've got now. Tate's Creek is another one that we're just basically enhancing with some more shade structures in various locations and along the center here, different areas, and then replacing. There's a pergola and a deck area near the concessions area that will be replaced, just getting worn and tired. And fixing the drop-off function in the front, providing a drop-off lane that's not there now, just to make circulation on the site better. Adding some lighting to the parking lot. And that's more for the use of the ballroom than it is for the pool, but it could all happen at the same time. And when, I guess in the future, the ballroom will have some renovations, that would be a good time to do all this work as well. That would be logical. Spray grounds, these are some examples of some spray grounds. I think it's different. Most of these are on the perimeter, one up in Centerville, Ohio. This one here on the right is in Paducah. I think both of these are. Spray grounds are great. They can be a variety of different sizes and shapes. There's actually some that have no vertical elements like you see here. They're just jets and sprays coming out of the ground. So when it's turned off, it's just like a plaza space. So there's different ways to do that as well. We've done themed ones with sunken ships and octopuses or octopi, whatever they would be. But there's a wide variety of things we can do there, a lot of theming we can do. Here it's required to have a restroom within 150 feet and some showers, but the showers can be outdoors. So there's a variety of locations we've talked about for doing the spray ground areas. So as I said earlier, we've broken this down into several packages. The first package, or 1A we're calling it, is basically the safety and regulatory requirements that pretty much we have to do. So these affect Southland, Woodland, Tate's Creek, Shillitoe, and Picadome. Shillitoe would be minimal because that's one we're recommending that you do some large improvements to, but some things you'll need to do right away, which is repairing leaks, replacing some of the drains, They're called VGB or Virginia Graham Baker Act drains that are safer. Replace the chemical controllers, add water level controllers. Some of the play features have gotten old and need to be resurfaced. And several ADA improvements that are required. Replacing shade structures and some warning signs on the decks. That's about $227,000 to do that package 1A. package 1b is castlewood douglas improvements doing two spray grounds and then the shilito design so castlewood as i mentioned on the site plan the new slide the wading pools change to a spray ground water play features some shade in the family restroom douglas is reconfigured and upgraded as i showed then does the design of the shilito center so we'd move that into the first phase so that we can get that process moving and then be ready for construction in the following package. Spraygrounds in those underserved areas at Jacobson and Masterson Station Parks. Masterson Station, you've already put a new restroom in by the large playground where the old airstrip was for the model planes. That is a natural area to do that sprayground. And at Jacobson, as you do the new large playground in there, it would be great to do this at the same time. The total cost of that package, both 1A, those safety requirements along with this, is about $5.7 million. Then package 2, which is the Shiltoe Regional Aquatic Center in the downtown spray ground, would be developed. Why Shiltoe? People have asked that. You've got a lot of land around it. It's one, you really can't expand Southland or Woodland anymore. You've got parking. It's the best parking access you've got at any of the pools. You've got public transit in the area as well, not right to the pool area, but close by. It's a high-usage park that could benefit from this. It's an under-performing pool right now. It could do a lot better because there's not a whole lot to do. As I mentioned earlier, 95% of the residents in Lexington live within a 20-minute drive of that site. And then I showed you on the site plan all the different amenities and improvements that would be made there. It would be pretty drastic. Pretty much everything out there would be brand new. And then the second part of that one is the downtown spray ground. That's at a location to be determined later. And the idea there is somewhere in the downtown area developing a spray ground. Try to encourage people to use this rather than using the fountains that are there more for decorative purposes and not really designed for public to play in. So the total cost of that package with the Southland improvements, or the Shillito improvements, and the downtown spray grounds is about $8.1 million. Package three is the existing facility upgrade. So we already talked about in 1A those things that have to get done right away. These are other things to make those parks improved with taller water slides, pool houses, shade at Southland, at Woodland, the improvements there at Tate's Creek, just as we talked about on the concept plans. Total package is about $2.7 million for those improvements. And then packages four and five would be the two new family aquatic centers that would be developed in the northwest and the east. It would cost them about $5 million each for a total of $10 million, and those could be phased over time. We suggest that this be a later phase and that you relook. The population is growing in those areas. So as you get a few years down the road, check the population growth in those areas again just to see how much more it's increased. The idea with this typical family aquatic center, which we didn't show earlier, it's got an eight-lane competition pool by 25 meters, a small lazy river, which would be an optional item, the spray ground accessible after the pool hours, and then water slides and a zero depth and shallow water area in here and in here, shade around the area. We purposely designed this so that you could, if you ever wanted to put a bubble over that pool in the future for competition use, you can. You have to use it in the off-season, so that's an option to be considered as well. And package six would be an indoor aquatic facility. It's part of a public-private partnership. This is something that no one group should have to bear the whole cost of because they're costly to build and to operate. And they would have, ideally, based on a lot of the public input to serve the area, a 50-meter by 25-yard competition pool, places for spectators, a diving well and warm-up pool, a warm water therapy pool so you could move some of those aerobics programs indoors in the off-season, a leisure and recreational pool, locker rooms, and a lot of the more successful ones have a fitness and cardio element as well. It's not just swimming that you can do there. And we mentioned some possibilities for the partnerships with the city schools. Transylvania University has a a new pool in their long-range plan, so at some point when they want to do that, that could be a possibility. We've seen a lot of health care providers partner with recreation centers, for example, to develop therapeutic pools in rec centers. The swim teams, the YMCA, and others could be part of this process. It's going to require some major sponsorships for the operations costs. We looked at the construction costs being about $15 to $20 million, And as we looked at a lot of facilities like this throughout the country, and some case studies that will be in the report, most of them operate at a deficit on their operations costs. Average of about 10 facilities we looked at was about $350,000 a year, with a low of $250,000 and a high of over $600,000. So something to look at closely with these types of facilities. There are some opportunities for generating additional revenues. These new facilities, we have more opportunities for rentals, for private parties. And looking at some of the rates currently, your individual pass, whether you're an adult or child, is $40 right now. And we looked at several facilities throughout the area. And the average in Kentucky was 104. But when you look at the larger ones right around Lexington and Richmond, Georgetown, and Nicholasville, the average is about $106 for an individual pass. So that's quite a bit of difference. Louisville charges the same as you do with the $40 a person, but they've got four smaller pools. They've got a bunch of spray grounds, but they don't have the aquatic facilities you have to offer. Youth passes are also $40, and the average there is about $74 statewide. Senior passes is about the same at the 40 and 70. 40 now and 70 is in the Kentucky average. Family passes, you're right in the same ballpark. They're about $200 here for a family of five, or up to six, I believe. And then it's $205 is the average. So your family passes are about right, but the individual passes are lower than everybody around you. So there's some opportunities there. Your daily fees are currently $5 and $4, $5 for individuals and adults and youth and seniors at $4. And we looked at the average as $7.30 for daily individuals and $5.64, so they're significantly higher. And that's not, you know, I'm not talking about big water parks. We're talking about the ones in nearby communities that are charging a good bit more. some other opportunities for increased revenues are you know increasing the individual season pass rates uh charging higher daily fees at shillito people would have the option of keeping the same rates at other pools possibly but for a better larger facility you could increase the rates uh and again as i said earlier that the better facilities will increase those opportunities for rentals and events, increased attendance, concessions, and those types of things, so we can increase the income. Any questions? Quite a bit of information and data to back all this up. Thank you for your presentation. Councilmember Maloney. I'm sorry I missed a lot of it, but I was looking at the fees, and when I look at the prices of the fees across the state and all that, you look at Whitford County, they have one huge pool, and everybody uses that pool. If you all compare the cities our size that have as many pools as we have, because most of these states, Kentucky average, would be one pool for their county, which would mean they probably pay a little bit extra to have that luxury, which I've seen what's happened in Frankfurt. Frankfurt has one pool and all that. But when we have all these pools here, and we also have a large population of low-income people, The majority of those pools are being used by large, low-income people because a lot of the people have country clubs. We have a lot of country clubs in this city where people can afford to go to their country clubs, and they have meets and things like that. I'm just trying to figure out if you all compared us with other cities our size. I bet you like Louisville and places like that have many. I don't know if Boyle has many pools as we have. They don't have as many as you do. We did look. There's a report that we've got that lists the top 100 cities in the country by size, and you rank 40th in terms of the number of pools per 100,000 people. And we also have the Y here, who gets built one of the largest pools, I think, in Kentucky. Maybe it is Kentucky. And I think they're working with low-income families to be able to use those pools. But I'm just trying to figure out how we raise these prices to get the luxury that all these other counties have because they can afford one big pool. Right. And for us to go around and decide if we're going to do these kind of pools, that start to isolate some of these locations in certain districts where they will not be able to get the luxuries that you all want. I assume you're going to be looking at where the numbers are higher for your pool use to be able to put these up top for the grade kind of splash pools or stuff that, I mean, all those other activities they have. You're looking at probably a Southland. You're looking at Woodland and places like that. We just spent a lot of money on Woodland 10 years ago, and we've been to update Southland. But I just don't feel good about seeing that you're comparing us to the state when most of these people have one swimming pool. We can certainly provide some information on what other cities of comparable size charge for their fees. I don't have that top of my head, but... And that's the concern I have, is that the low-income people, and then what I'm afraid is when you decide to do one of these pools, which I'm afraid are going to be where the most use is, you're not going to be able to get a certain part of the town over on that side to be able to use it. Now, I commend the Y. They have built swimming pools. They've got three or four of them that are built around this city right now. They just built one in north and then one over at Hamburg. Hamburg, which is now the Davidson District. I just want to know if we put all those news in there. We're not proposing any changes. All we're doing now is showing that there's some opportunities to do that. The policy on the rates and charges is something that you all would be involved with before any of that happened. We're just saying that Shillito, for a larger pool, you have some potential for larger rates. There's still the opportunity. You could keep the rates as they are. uh the other pools if you'd like uh and also the idea of the spray grounds and splash pads that are like the ones that were proposed for jacobson and masters sensation are free so you don't have to pay to go to those you can't swim but you can go play in the water and there's no charge for those and the ones that are associated with pools are free when the pools aren't open when the pools are open they've got to pay the admissions charge there's no way to really compare you know keep the two going so so we could um so that's another opportunity that but he's free to people. And I apologize. I was out. How do you pay the $25 million back? Pardon me? How would you pay the $25 million back? That's a question for you all. How would you want to fund that? I mean, there's... I'm just asking. And you... I didn't hear that. Maybe I wanted to hear if he said that. If he didn't say it, then I don't know. I'm going to build it. Okay. All right. Council Member Gibbs. Thank you, Chair. Thank you for the presentation. Thank you. I have some questions. I'm not sure you can answer them right now, but I was hoping you provide us with information when you can. But I know there's some institutions in our country that have been thriving for generations and are now starting to fade, for example, golf, fraternal organizations. And I was wondering about swimming in municipal pools. Is there a trend towards doing more or less of it? I'm interested in demographics, like typically young users or preponderance of them. What's the trend? Can we expect more or less of them in four or five years? That's the sort of stuff that I'm interested in before I make large investments. So I don't know if you want to take a shot at that now or just provide us with more information later. Sure. I can get some more backup information. But generally, the National Sporting Goods Association does a survey every two years of about 10,000 residents and looking at their activities that they participate in. Walking and jogging together is number one. But second is swimming right after that. And it's been that way consistently for a long time. And the numbers aren't getting any smaller. I can't remember the exact numbers, but we can certainly get some information. And it'll be in the report as well. I think camping is right up there as well, too. I didn't think that was one that surprised me. You like projections on demographics, like how many 10-year-olds we have now, how many 10-year-olds we're likely to have in 10, 5, 10, 15 years. Yeah, we looked at all that demographic information will be in the report looking at that. So we've got the trends. And even though there's, I think, the population is having less children in the households, a lot of the minority populations, which are growing at a higher rate than the white population, have more children in the household. So it's being made up, and you can see that with the need for additional schools. Okay. Well, thank you very much. Thank you, Chair. Council Member Akers. Thank you, Chair. I want to thank you for this and the parks staff. I know this is a lot of work, and the parks advisory board, and all those who served on this advisory committee as well. I think it's very exciting. I'm really glad to see some ideas and new thoughts and creativity, especially in underserved areas like the north side and the west end. My district, I represent the Leastown-Masterson area. And so in the second district, we have no pools. So when you talk about it's a growing population, I think it has grown. I don't know that waiting is necessary for the aquatic center out there. But I wanted to ask, for each of these proposals that you have, there's just a total cost on each package? Right. In your full report, do you have these itemized by each improvement or at least? Yes. Okay. Yeah, we do. So for the Castlewood Aquatic Center, for example, the slide in each of those would be itemized? Right. Okay. And have we received that or will we receive that? We can, and it'll be part of the report. It's something that we can send you that, the breakdown of each package and the individual costs for the different pools and those. Yeah, I think it would be helpful, because I don't think that anyone is probably ready to say, okay, let's go with 1B or 1A or 2 or, you know, in which order. Put this slide up that's got the cost. I've got it. It's right here. Oh. There you go. Oh, thank you. This one has shows. I had to remember that these had some backup slides. Southland at 1.8 million, Woodland at 534,000, Tanks Creek at 352, Castlewood at 1.2 million, Shiltoe, we talked about at 8 million, that includes the design, the Douglas Pool at 2.6, and then the spray grounds are each, but Jacobson would be 700,000 because you need a restroom there with it as well. The one at Masterson Station would be about 500,000 because there's already restroom there it still hasn't opened the downtown aquatic center about 600 000 downtown uh spray ground about 600 000 and then those two uh the new aquatic centers in the northwest and the east be about five million each great yeah that's very helpful um can you talk a little bit about the rationale for well first of all did you propose or suggest closing any existing pools The only one that would really close eventually would be Picadome, because the attendance is mainly the seniors doing the aerobics program, and we're providing a better opportunity at Chilito, which is not that far away. It's on the same side of town that we've talked to a lot of the seniors. And they'll have warmer water, which they liked, better surface, designed more for their activity. And besides just the warm water and the activity in that pool, they could also go over to the Lazy River and walk against the current as well. So there's more to do as well. And they're scheduled at times when the pool's not used by the general public, so they still have sort of exclusive use of that area as well. And then for— We wouldn't even do that. I wouldn't recommend closing that until after either an indoor pool is built that would have some therapy water in it or the Shilatoa's facility is done. Okay. And then for Douglas Pool, this is a pool that is adjacent, close to my district, the closest one, I guess. And we have talked about in past years or recent years of trying to lower rates to increase attendance because it's a really low-income area. Right. And we thought that that was maybe a barrier to usage of the pool. That was not approved by parks. So I'm curious what the rationale is. I thought that we would consider closing the pool and just building a spray ground so it would be free to the neighborhood. So why an upgrade to an aquatics facility versus the spray ground? There's a couple different ways of looking at that. The cheapest thing for the city to do would be to build the spray ground and close the pool from an operating cost. Because you don't need lifeguards for those spray grounds. That's the nice thing about them. But there's also the desire to keep the ability to swim in the neighborhood and teach more people to swim. So the desire is to get more people in the water. So to do that, we also need to have more things for them to do there. So there's not that much to do. So the balance is do we go the less expensive route and provide the water spray? And then, you know, Castlewood and Woodland are not that far away. I think we started looking at some of the results from the surveys. A lot of people that are using public transportation are going to Woodland because it's easier to get to than going to that. Is that correct, Keith? I'm going to make sure. So there was a lot of discussions about that as well, the opportunity to either just close that or replace it. I think what has to happen for that pool to reach its potential is, one, having more to do. But secondly, the whole park needs, and the whole area of town needs more programming, needs just a better image so that people will want to go there as well. Right. And that's not something that this plan is going to solve. But it is a piece of that puzzle. I know that there are lots of initiatives in the works, improving the playground and lots of things happening in the park. So I'm not opposed to it. I just was surprised to see it and wondered what you all's rationale was when you did the study. It's sort of an outside objective eye. That's why I just asked. We started out actually looking at several different options for that. That's the one pool that we had the most discussion about what to do there. The rest of them were pretty logical what needed to happen. And the impact on the community and some of the community leaders in the area were also involved in some of the discussions. And there was some desire to keep a pool in that area and upgrade it to the same level as the other ones. We had a plan that had basically a totally new pool there, but then adjusted that to try to keep it a little less expensive by working within the existing footprint as much as possible, that existing pool. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Ms. Conrad or Ms. Hamilton, can we get a copy of this slide? We actually don't have that in front of us, and it's a really good breakdown, and I think it would be very helpful. So if we could, thank you. Councilmember Evans. Thank you, Chair. I've got a lot of comments, I guess, swirling in my head, but I guess the real question that I have, I guess two questions. when you've listed them as packages, which to me, and it might just be semantics, is a little confusing. I don't know if those are options or if those are suggestions to do in order or just things you all noticed. I didn't know why. Good question. Started out as phases, but then there are certain things depending on funding that can move back and forth, and you can move between those as well. So that's why there's a breakdown of the cost for each of those different facilities in the packages as well. Okay. And then just like I think we'd had this conversation with the golf courses and when we talk about fees, we don't have the total revenue that pools bring in compared to what it costs to operate it. I think that would be helpful before we start talking about changing anything money-wise. So if we could do that, because the general consensus is let's start, well, I won't say general consensus, but if TONE is perhaps closed golf courses, well, I think maybe we need to look at everything. If we're talking about conserving money, we don't need to pick and choose. If there are things that are operating in a negative, then I think we need to look at everything that way. So I'd be interested to have that information as well. But that being said, a little comment. I grew up swimming at Tate's Creek every summer. So it does baffle me that kids need more stuff to do. I mean, it was very simple. I swam for four hours every day and just played in the pool. So that's an interesting twist on all this other stuff. But I'm not sure what to make of it all and what we really need to do. But, yeah, I would say my district as well. I don't think I have a pool either. And I would challenge that 10-minute drive. It feels more like 20. But I'll trust your numbers. According to the computer programs, that's the way they come out. But we didn't check all the drive times. And there will be a lot of detail in the overall plan with the backup, the numbers on the existing revenue. And there's some changes. Just the change alone to the minimum wage in the city is going to impact the costs of the pools of operating them. All right. Council Member Fred Brown. Thank you, Chair. I think my question may be more directed to the Commissioner and or the Director. I'm not sure, but I'll start. I wanted to know if this aquatic plan is it part of our master park plan that we're still trying to develop. I think the way we envision it is this plan stands alone but will be rolled and made part of the overall parks master plan as it's done and completed. So it would be incorporated. The people doing the Parks Master Plan would make use of this plan and their overall strategies. And moving forward, are we going to get some recommendations from your staff or your group? Yes, and I will be making, in the mayor's budget, we will probably be talking about what we would want in terms of first-year funding, of what projects within this overall recommendation we think would be done first and what would be pushed off to the future fiscal years. Okay, good, good, because that segues into my next question of the budget amounts because some of this at the pool is going to be maintenance, and I don't know if you're talking about capital improvements versus maintenance or some of this will be in your regular budget request, I would assume. For instance, I'll give you an instance, and I talked to Monica about a pool in my area, of course, and then pools across the city about having more shade trees or shade areas. Yes. And I think that was what we were going to push regardless. We're going to be pushing that. I noticed they're in this plan here, and I think those are good recommendations. What about pool attendance? It's been down, hasn't it, the last few years? Pool attendance varies tremendously based on the weather. If you remember, for example, last summer, it wasn't warm until at least mid-June. It didn't warm up until later. But in general, in the last few years, it has gone down here. what we have in our annual audit report, and it shows pool attendance, I believe, down over that period of time. But yet, you know, we're looking at spending a lot of money, and, you know, there's got to be an effect there, and there's got to be, you know, some way to pay for this. Right. I think there's several things that impact that. One, as I said, is the weather, which we've seemed like we've had more bad years than good years in the recent past. And then also, I think the condition of some of the facilities has an impact, and people really don't like going into, not to say dirty because they're not maintained well, but just old, tired restrooms. And yet the biggest comments we heard were about pool houses, and it did have nothing to do with water. Most of the comments were shade, pool houses and restrooms and those kind of things. And we see that in a lot of communities we work in. How do we compare, when you were looking at this analysis, how do we compare? We've got several. The YMCA does a great job of pools across the city. How's the competitive spirit there, or what are we trying to do additional to what they're doing? And, you know, are we just the number of children or the number of young adults or seniors or whatever? Are we compressing that number over even more pools? Well, it's part of the mapping that we did. We mapped all the pools, HOA pools, Neighborhood Association pools, whatever. Again, it's part of that looking at the gaps. We wanted to look at all those areas. For example, we looked at areas around Masters of Station. There's only one neighborhood pool, whereas around the area around Jacobson, there are more neighborhood pools in those areas. So that's meant. The Y, I mean, Dave from the Y, Dave Morano, is here. He's been part of the committee. I think the city and the Y get along great. There's some great cooperation there. Are all those indoor pools at the Y, are they indoor year-round pools? Two of them are, Northside and downtown Beaumont, and then the new one at Hamburg will have indoor pools. I really like the idea of having some type of, maybe having one of our best pools or something, ability to maybe have some year-round swimming there that would maybe increase the revenues, and you'd increase probably the daily prices also. And that was an issue. There's a lot of competitive groups that would like to see some indoor swimming in the community. And the why is accommodating their members more than the rentals, if I can speak for you there, Dave. So they've got to look out for their members more than anything else. And you get a swim team in there, it takes up a lot of the time and space in the pool area and disrupts the members. So that's something to keep in mind. But there's a large demand for a lot of swim teams here, some strong swim teams. Thank you. Thank you. Council Member Stennett. Thank you, Chair, and appreciate you being with us today and sharing the information. Just a couple questions. One, what's the maintenance cost difference between a splash pad and a pool? A tremendous amount. Splash pads or spray grounds are about $10,000 a year. The other pools, they vary, but you're talking more in the – I've got that number here. There's a table. Let's see. The expenses at the other pools, you know, it's like looking over the years, about $600,000 for all the pools together. So you figure there's seven of them. You divide that up. So you're talking almost ten times the amount of cost. The biggest thing is 66% of your cost at your pools is the labor. It's labor, yeah. And you really have very little labor. You don't have any lifeguards, which is the biggest cost. Did you analyze our costs at our existing pools to see if we can become more efficient or if there are ways to save money at our existing pools the way they're being operated? There's not a lot you can do to make them more profitable other than improving them and getting more people in there and possibly if you wanted to raise fees. Okay. That was one of the key areas there. And you recommend a couple of new pools, new locations, one being in the east and one northwest. did you take into consideration the new YMCA getting ready to open in Hamburg? Yes. So you would still stand by that recommendation, even though there's a huge, probably one of the largest in the state, aquatic centers getting ready to open up in North Lexington? It's an indoor facility and an outdoor spray ground. But the indoor facilities don't meet that larger demand of the outdoor swimming in the summertime. As an example, one of those case study cities that we looked at that has an indoor and an outdoor facility down in Georgia, they have an average of 7,000 people a month in those non-summer months, but 114,000 in the summer months if they're out to a pool. So that's the difference in the number of people that use indoor versus outdoor. Right. It's natural, too. Right. Your recreational swimmers want to swim in the summer. Right. So in terms of how many pools do we need in Lexington? I mean, what's the standard? You're asking to add two more, so I'll have nine, maybe close one, I'll have eight. What's the standard? There really is no standard. The National Recreational Park Association got rid of all their standards when they came out with a new book in 1995. And it said based on what your community wants and what the people say and how you can serve the people. And that's what we're looking at here is how can we serve the residents. And we heard a lot of people from both those two underserved areas saying that they'd like to see something close to home there. And that study of 100 of the top population cities in the country, you're ranked 40th in terms of the number of pools per 100,000 population. By adding the one additional facility, you'd go up to like 35th. It's not like you'd change it up to number one. But it's interesting, and it's like Cincinnati and Cleveland, Ohio, are the two of the top in the country in terms of the pools per 100,000. You'd think it'd be the warmer climates, but it's not. And during the public input phase, how many unique people responded or did you come in contact with? There was about 5,000 people we were engaged throughout the process through a wide variety of methods. Okay. And in those areas such as Douglas and North Lexington where I used to represent, did you break it up how many people from each area and talk to them specifically about do they want a new pool, do they want something else? We have numbers on the survey results from those different areas but not the other methods as well. Okay, I mean, the only reason I bring this up, and to be truthful, I wasn't supportive of this process, because this is the third time we've done this since I've been on council. The third time. The second time we've done it, we recommended closing a pool in the 8th district, and then in my district, the old 6th, where I used to represent it. So now we're asking to add one back in those areas. We recommended closing, we closed them, didn't help the pool profits, and now we want to add two more. To me, we're spinning our wheels and going around in circles and not really focused on what do we really want to offer the entire community, not just the 5,000 who responded, but the entire city, and how do we balance that against other park amenities and needs in those areas, such as I'll take Douglas, for instance. Every time it comes up, every time we do a pool study, we change the fees, we lower them, pool tends to increase. We've done a number of things, but has anyone ever sat in that community and asked, do you want a $2.6 million pool, or would you rather have a million dollar splash pad and then better basketball facilities or football? Have we done a town hall meeting? Do we plan to do that? Because, you know, the Y is right there, too. I know the Y is offered free swimming classes. No one took them up on it. So I think we have the Y as a partner in our community. We need to start realizing that, especially when they open to Hamburg. We've already closed two pools, and now we want to add two more. I just think we need a lot more thought put into this plan and really see what our need in the community is for aquatics. Councilman Maloney mentioned you can go to Wilford County. The pavilion in Georgetown is phenomenal. I think, you know, if we did have one phenomenal facility, people would still drive there. I know we want to be under this notion of I want to be five minutes or I want to be ten, I want to walk. But, you know, those days have changed. A lot more people are mobile. And, you know, Constitution, we closed it because of Castlewood. It was right there. You know, we closed Berry Hill because it takes creek. And now we want to add pools back in those areas. I think the priority needs to be on the areas that aren't served at all and the safety issues first in this upcoming budget. I mean, let's take care of the safety. Let's jump into Jacobson Park and then the Master and Station area. I think those are very underserved because they don't have anything out that way. I know you alluded to the clubhouses and stuff, but not everyone can afford those. But we really need to get our handle around what we really want to offer in this city and pools and make that decision first. Thank you, Chair. Okay. Council Member Henson. Thank you, Chair. Thank you for the presentation. It's good to see you again. I agree somewhat that maybe I would agree with upgrading our current pools, make them as exciting and adventurous as possible. But when it comes to adding new pools, if our attendance is low at the current pools we have, I don't think it's feasible to place one in another pool throughout the city. But I do like the idea of the spray grounds or splash paths, whatever. So I was wondering, when you look at the low-income areas, it might be a 20-minute drive for most people. But for a lot of kids, they're not going because they can't get there. Public transportation, you mentioned going to Woodland. So that's a good thing if they can get on the bus and get there. But I was just thinking if we looked more at the spray grounds, then the kids, it would give them more kids a better opportunity just to walk. Like we used to have neighborhood pools, and they were very small, didn't offer anything really exciting. And I personally like Southland Pool. I think it's fantastic. I'm like, I really wish they had that when I was a kid. But, you know, that, you know, I'm not sure I would be in favor of building more pools, but enhancing the ones we have, putting in more spray grounds, and looking. I think it's very important, and I know our new director mentioned this, is everyone needs to learn how to swim. So if we do a program where we could get the kids there, round them up, really entice them to come and learn to swim. So get them to these bigger parks, maybe give them a free pass for the summer or something if you enter one of our swim lists. So those are just my thoughts. But I really like the designs, the accessibility for individuals with disabilities and our seniors. I like the zero entry, whatever, depth, the warm water. All that sounds fantastic. But, again, I would be more in favor of no new pools, enhancing the ones we've got, and then just keep a tap on the attendance. You know, you see companies do it all the time. it's like they ask for your zip code when you go there so they know where are these people coming from. So, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Council Member Scutchfield. Thank you, Chair. I know we've talked about this at some point in the past. I can't remember if it was this group or another group. Just so that they can have a good idea, how did you get all this information together to try to make these decisions. I know I went to town hall meetings with you. You went to the pools. If you could give us the basis of how you collected these 5,000-plus comments and ideas. We had four town hall meetings spread throughout different areas of the community so we could make it accessible to as many people as possible. we had a statistically valid mail survey that we had over over 500 responses to that we also had a web and handout version of the survey we had quite a few responses to that as well that anybody could fill out not just the random sample we also had a website set up that the people could respond to and gave us information on that we had events at the pools we went had a big kickoff event at Shiltoe. We had another one at Southland. I went to Castlewood and to Douglas where we could talk to the people while they were there at the pools. Most of those days were free days. The one at Shiltoe was a huge success. A lot of people there. And even the one at Douglas had probably 10 times the number of people they normally have in a day there. It was days when there was a lot more people there because of other activities. The back to school event was going on. What else did we do? Pardon me? Yeah, there was a... We also had... The lifeguards helped us. We had little cards for people to fill out at the pools and give their comments. So we talked to the users as well. The libraries, community centers, Salvation Army. Okay. Yeah, good point. We had the surveys done in Spanish and English at the libraries, community centers. The Salvation Army distributed some of those as well. And we had a whole series of stakeholder groups, well over 20 of those. We met with the swim team coaches and parents of the kids that are involved in swim teams and swim lessons, the Commission on People with Disabilities, a wide variety of good police and fire departments as well. Look at all different groups that could use this. So we met with a lot of different groups as part of the process. And obviously during this time you had this group that was the steering committee that you met with to kind of keep us updated. And we did have people very interested in the swim programs that helped to kind of bring insight when you kind of hit walls on some of the issues, too. One of the other things I wanted to say, one of the things that we looked at as a committee was we've got an aging pool infrastructure here in Lexington. Throughout central Kentucky, I think the loss of a lot of our attendance can be attributed directly to Georgetown having both an indoor and an outdoor parks facility. Jessamine County has an outdoor facility that has a zero-entry pool, which we don't have here. In Richmond, there's another huge slide, swimming pool, lazy river, playground, everything. and then I think just south of, I can't remember where exactly it is, but just south of Richmond there's an entire water complex. So within a short 10-minute drive, we can go to an outdated pool that if you have a 2-year-old, you're scared to death to not look at them because you don't have a zero entry, or you can drive an extra 20 minutes and be at a place where you feel safe with children of all ages and adults and whatnot. So I think that has a big bearing on the current attendance. One of the things that we did have put into the budget, I think it was last year, instituted last summer, we now are tracking the people that are coming to the pools on a more solid basis because we have the Wi-Fi at the pools. So I think that's going to give us a great way to be able to see what changes we do and how that impacts the bottom line. And then one of the things that we talked about at the final meeting of the steering committee was Shiltoe is going to stay an eight-lane pool. But the way that it's set up, somebody had mentioned about indoor facility, which the reality of a brand-new indoor facility is out of our reach without a partner. But the idea of using Shiltoe is a possibly big bubble because there is a pool, a private pool, though, in Louisville that bubbles their large eight-lane swimming pool during the winter to increase the ability. So this is a possibility in the Shiltoe area. So, you know, we brought that up. We didn't say anything about funding it or doing anything. But we know that these things are some of the possibilities that we can look at down the road, which gives us a lot more opportunity. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Council Member Bledsoe. Thank you, Chair. Thanks, Pat. This has been a fascinating process the last six to eight months. And we've met, as Council Member Scutchfield said, a number of times with a lot of different people. Certainly we met out at Clay's Mill and did a public hearing. We had a lot of people come to that. I grew up going to Southland Pool when it was the box. It was on their swim team. And I rode my bike there. And when my kids go back, it does have a zero entry on the big pool. And part of why we love that pool is because it's fantastic, and there's a lot to do. There's a variety of things for different ages to do. And you've done a great job of trying to get public input. The hard thing about getting all the public input is then trying to figure out what we can afford to do and what we want to do. And I think what the tiered approach is something that we, myself in particular, had kind of asked Pat to do, which was, you know, this is the Cadillac. $26.3 million is a Cadillac version of an aquatics program for Lexington. What if we want a Pinto? What if we want an Osnipiel? So that was, I want a cool car, I just can't afford the Cadillac. So that was kind of why we got to the tier, was to try to figure out what's a middle ground, what could we grow into. And I think all of that comes down to what are our goals for Lexington? What do we want Lexington to do? And that, I think, is a discussion that we need to have, having heard some of the public input of what they're recommending. Now it's up to us to decide what that looks like. I, too, agree that we want all kids to swim, for instance. I don't think we're the best facilitator of that. One, I think it's better done at school, while kids are in school, and that's during the winter. So I think partnering with the YMCA and saying, hey, it is our goal for every Lexington second grader to swim. Okay, that's something we should do within partnership and maybe partner through the YMCA and our schools to do that kind of a program. The last thing I will, I'm not for adding more polls either. I kind of feel like we should, if we were in the public sector or in the private sector, we might say, how can we, we're going to lose money all the time in polls. We just are. The question is, how much are we willing to lose and still provide an equitable, awesome experience for Lexington kids? That's the real question. And is that better done with four or five really awesome pools that do everything? And yes, we have to drive 20 minutes to them, but they're awesome, and then we invest in splash pads in other areas? Or is that trying to have somewhat of a neighborhood pool everywhere? That's a discussion point that I think we have to decide what we want to do and how we want to do it. And thank you for the data that helps us make those decisions. We need that. And then I think it's just kind of up to us. And I'd be curious, I won't put Monica or Jeff on the spot now, but if I gave you $100 and said, where do you want to put it in parks? Would you give $0.05 to pools and $0.05 to tennis and $5? I'm just curious what you would look at as a budget. If we're going to get $0.75 in the dollar from golf courses and we're going to get an average of $0.33 back on pools, what's the best for us? And I think that's a discussion we need to also have towards the master plan. Thank you, Chair. Vice Mayor Kay Thank you and thank you for allowing me to speak even though I'm not on the committee I appreciate the report I've got a couple questions and it builds a little bit on what Council Member Bledsoe just was saying the questions are what's the difference between a splash pad and a spray ground and then why are the spray grounds so expensive given what they are So it's a good question. They're the same, but there is one company that has trademarked the name Splash Pad. So in the report, we're using the word spray ground, but nationally, they're both they're both the same. They're just called different things. So those are the both really the same same thing. I see. And so then the question, I guess, is why, given that they're very simple, as I understand it, and I've seen some, why 500,000, 600,000, 700,000? Good question. All the prices that we've got in here, we've included all of your fees, the design fees, geotechnical reports, and all that. So the prices, and there's a little contingency in there as well. So everything is inflated a little bit, but it's trying to give you a total project cost. Spray grounds can change. I mean, how many features and how big you want to make it can dictate that. But the water is recirculated just like a pool. You've still got chemicals and chemical controllers and all that. You still got to do, unless you do like Louisville and just go directly and not pay for the water and dump it directly to the river, which they do. But they don't pay for their water, so they can afford to do that. So that keeps the cost of that part of it down quite a bit. It's less maintenance as well. But since the city would be paying for the water, we did a study for one, and it was a matter of using 10,000 gallons a summer or 2 million gallons a summer. So it was pretty clear that you needed to recirculate the water. But some of those elements that are out there are expensive. There's a lot of concrete. So we can rate that. That's sort of like a good spray ground. We can go a little smaller, make them different sizes as well. Okay, so if we were... Oh, that's a good point. The requirement that you have a restroom within 150 feet is part of that. That's the difference between the $500,000 and the $700,000 one is having the restroom close by. So if we have a spray ground to avoid the conflict with the splash pad issue, we're spending a couple hundred thousand bucks on a restroom? Yes. Okay. So if we were to ask about the least costly spray ground, what's the minimum you could put? So $200,000 for the restroom, and then how much more to get a minimum safety, usefulness, and so on? I'd say about $250,000 to get a small one. Okay. So we'd be looking at roughly a half a million bucks, no matter what, maybe a little less. Okay. So I think the question that Council Member Bledsoe was kind of moving to it or maybe thinking about is that I think, given this information, our job is to think about what services we're trying to provide. So a splash pad or a spray ground provides a very different kind of service, and in the places where we most need water facilities, they might be the most useful, because that's where the kids are. That's where the kids have nothing. And I'd be interested in our looking at those kinds of things. What kind of services are we trying to provide? A splash pad, you can't swim in it. We know that. Certain kinds of pools, you can't do laps, and so on and so on and so on. So what are we really trying to do as a community to provide services to our constituents, and what are the cost-benefit ratio? I'm impressed that even though they sound expensive to me, the spray grounds, I think, perform a good service, and they're very inexpensive to maintain, no staff, et cetera. So I would encourage my colleagues to think about short-term spray pads or whatever they're called where they are most needed. Spend a little money that way, get some basic services to the community, and then think about larger investments. So thank you. Thank you, Chair. Council Member James Brown. Thank you, Chair. And thank you, Pat. Ms. Monica, I see David in the audience, and Jennifer, I know they were part of the steering committee as well as fellow council members. There were a lot of meetings, and there was a lot of time invested into this master plan. I guess one of the points I was wanting to reiterate is in some of the phasing of this aquatics plan, some of your recommendations were to have spray grounds instead of pools. And I think it's a big difference between building new pools and the spray grounds. The spray grounds are going to be less costly. The maintenance on them is not going to be as much as a pool. So where they take out pools and other areas and put spray grounds, I think that provides a service to constituents in that area that they would still have activity in the summer to go in and use a water facility. And then I know it was a story shared about a community in Ohio that was very similar to the North Lexington-Nouglas Park area where they had a pool in the area and it had low usership. But what they did is they went in and invested a lot of money. And I think the story went that it was the only facility in the city that they charge a rate, and it actually increased in usership and kind of changed the whole perception of the area, and it's one of the most popular pools in the city. Now, keeping that mindset in mind, I think it's important to make sure that you have that service in an area where there's low income, there's a lot of minorities on the north side of Lexington, and then I think you shared the information that those populations are increasing. So the need to have the facilities to be able to teach children how to swim, I think, is important, as well as making it exciting and interesting for them to come and use those facilities as well. So that's why I'm actually pleased with the proposal about the Douglas Park facility. Councilwood, that facility is a pretty popular facility, and it was shared during the steering committee meetings that it's very well attended. I don't know how Park and Rec documents the usership of that pool, but I know from my experience going by Castlewood and from some of the information shared at the steering committee meeting, that pool stays crowded. So I think having or making the improvements of another facility that's on the north side will help alleviate some of the congestion at the Castlewood pool and could maybe help the whole aquatics plan and the pool system in general. Another point that Council Member Scutchfield made is that we're losing, I think we're losing potential income, and citizens are traveling to other counties and other cities to use better facilities. And I think that's kind of on us to do what we can to improve our facilities and lessen that burden on them to have to travel and go to a better facility that can have them here in town closer to home. And I think it's also important to point out that the YMCA and the service that they provide is a little different between public outdoor facilities. I think they do a good job at serving their members in our community, but I think the experience in an indoor pool is just a little different from the experience at an outdoor facility. So I think there's an opportunity for us to partner with the YMCA, possibly since they you know have a background and have experience in managing pools they might have something they can show us at the at the city on what we can do to manage our pools a little better all right thank you chair that's all right councilmember stennett thank you chair we're in our time last time but I wanted to go back to castlewood you know that's where I grew up and that's where I learned how to swim years ago and why didn't we look at doing what we're what was planned at Chilloteau but instead of castlewood because there's not a pool in the North End at all. Shillitoe has Southland close by. Tay Street's not horribly too far away. Why not Castlewood and Makita Regional Center? The attendance, contrary to what Councilman Brown had said, a lot of people say they go to Castlewood, they go there because Woodland's so crowded. They live closer to another pool, but they go there because it's less crowded. There's less activity going on there. and without disrupting some of the there's a lot of other things in the park would have to sort of move to make room for something as large what we're proposing at shillitoe there's more land at shillitoe and and that one we both of those we feel underperformed they could do better with what they have calcwood already has the zero depth and a slide and and some water play features where shillitoe had none of those things so we felt that the best opportunity for because of the space and the population base around the pools to get more people in and be more successful was at Shiltoe. And did you, when you say population, did you look at where the most heavy concentrated young kids are in the city? Yes. Okay. Do you have a map you can show us? I don't have a width here. And so your recommendations are based on where the heaviest populations of young people are. Not just young people, just people in general, because not just young people go to the pools. Right. I understand. Yeah. I know there's a big emphasis on teaching kids how to swim and that sort of thing. I said, no, if you had a map you could share with us that you shared with the steering committee. Not today. I'll add the numbers here. And then while you're looking for that, I'll ask one last question. Sure. So the cost-benefit ratio of adding a particular piece of equipment, is there any correlation to how much that increases usership or revenue? So if, say, we come down to we want to do this here and add the fountain, add the slide, you get that much more attendance? Is there anything that looks at that? Because I've heard a lot on this council, well, if we make it better, more people will come. But is there evidence of that? Well, not for each specific element that you would add. But in general, we've seen, when we've gone into communities and taken their pools, and just like when you changed the Southland and Castlewood and Woodland, the number of people that went to those pools after you added more family-friendly types of activities increased tremendously. Your numbers were a lot lower before that was done. We see that all over the pools that we redesigned, is that once you add more shallow water, the zero depth, and some family activities and add things like family restrooms and more shade, the numbers just go up tremendous. We've seen some pools as much as quadruple the attendance from one year to the next based on the features in the pools. And did you all look at pools versus other amenities in parks? Because I know one of the biggest things we get, especially over the last 12 years I've been on this council, is we need more athletic fields. We need more soccer. We need more football. We need more lacrosse. We hardly ever get a call thing. We need more bulls. So have you compared that? We didn't. No, that's what the next project you're going to be doing is going to be looking at all those other. We focused on aquatics only. Only aquatics versus other things. Thank you for your work, Pat. I appreciate it. Thank you for the council members and everyone that served on it. I think it is some information that is worthy of using as we go down this path. Thank you. Thank you. Council Member Maloney. Thank you. I'm tickled to death with this. To be honest with you, the concern that I have is we've got a lot of other things we're going to bond. And personally, I'd rather have this stuff for bonding. I'd rather have this. And there's a reason why. It's because I've been on this council and I've sat through many recessions. When I came on in 89, we went through tough times there. When I came back in the 90s, we started coming back. and then came back in 2000 to be the CAO, we had to make drastic cuts. A lot of people cannot go out of this town. They had to stay home. You've got a lot of families now that have both parents working. You have kids that have nowhere to go. And to me, this is an opportunity for these kids to have something to do for the future of Luthington. And I see this more important than some of the things that we're getting ready to bond. and to me that's why as I look at the stock market today and look at what it's done this year it's not good and I usually go by the stock market and when you see things start going down we just went through a little recession I don't want to go back through that again but when we do go through bad times like that we learn that we need to help take care of our folks in Lexington and to me that's what I've been hearing to my colleagues a lot of them are going out of town to go use other and that's the last thing i want to do because lustington's a great city and i want to be sure we have the best of what we can do and to me and i'm not putting you on the spot i'm putting this council on the spot that we need to put our priorities together on what we want to bond and to me we've got three four big other big projects out there that we want to bond i'm going to personally say that i like this better than the ones that we are bonding so i just hope we all open up and see what's going on with that. We've got a new presidential election coming up. We don't know what's going to happen there. We've got a new governor that would come up. We're going to have to go through some... I just want to be conservative with what we're doing. But I also want to help our citizens to know if we do go through tough times, that we have the tools here in Fayette County that these folks have a right to use and be able to not have to worry about going out of town to use it when they probably won't be able to get out of town. So I commend you on this, and I just know there's a priority list that we've got to put together. So I'm excited about this, and hopefully we can come up with something to make sure what's more important and what we bond this year and what is not important or what's best for us. All right. Thank you. I actually have some questions. I was waiting for everybody else to. Of the existing pools, I know of one that has an accessible lift. Do any of other existing pools have an accessible lift currently? They all should. I think they all do. They have to have two means of access into a pool. Okay. So usually a lift is one of those, and whether it's stairs or a ramp or zero-depth access is the other. Okay. All righty. And you talk about the east and the northwest family aquatic centers being new. Does the $5 million include a purchase of property, or are we going to put it on existing government property? We looked at a variety of different things, and I think the committee came up with the decision that the city is more than likely not going to be buying any land for these. So it would logically be Jacobson Park and Masterson Station Park. If you wanted to maximize the people within a five- and ten-minute drive, you'd probably move them in towards the center of the city a little bit more. Say, for example, but the land either isn't available or you don't want to be buying land on Citation Boulevard because it's so expensive, for example. But you'd get more people if you did that. So there's some tradeoffs there. So these numbers did not include any land acquisition. okay so but to be fair the east would be is is uh proposed for jacobson and the northwest is proposed for masterson that would that'd be a logical areas if you know if there's something other land available that'd be fine too but masterson makes sense i think you could do something in that same area where the new playground and restrooms are going well i mean there is a large population that is expanding in both of those areas too so the other question that has to do with spray grounds and i realize that there is not a immediate need for staffing because it is not actually a swimming area but does would that include um if we add more spray grounds to lexington then we would have to up our maintenance i would think yes you do have that's all part of that you'd have some maintenance costs um the people that do the pool maintenance documents the same processes and procedures uh so they could do that as well but there are there are so you got to check them and you got to check the chemicals and those kind of things so um but that's something you do have to do right okay i appreciate this information and is there any other further discussion on the council? No? I would think that we would want to leave this in the committee and that way we can discuss it further as necessary. So I guess we'll thank you all for your presentation and all the information today and I'm sure that we'll be getting some calls from our constituents after they've heard this and And hopefully we'll all be able to answer their questions or we'll point them in your all's direction. Thank you. It was a pleasure being here with you today. Thank you. Okay. Our next item on the agenda is the board's agencies and commissions update. Council Member Scutchfield, as you make your way back to your seat, this item was referred by you, and I know that the report was sent out to all council members. We ask for feedback from all council members. I believe we got one piece of information, and I think Council Member Scotchfield has some more information, so I'll recognize you. Thank you, Chair. And I know it might have been from Council Member Bledsoe because I had spoken to her that she had some ideas for it. I think we, yeah, and I was just talking to Chief of Staff Reed and General Services Commissioner. It's just going to be too many things to say now, Jeff. But I think the one sheet that included all of the boards and commissions, I think that in a more condensed form would probably be best case scenario. Maybe not including, and this can be other people's decision, the last column where they came. I guess the biggest thing is the boards and commissions, how many they're supposed to have, how many they currently have, and expiration dates of those that will be leaving the board so that we can be informed and ready when that time's coming. I think other than that, if we have a question, we can follow up and get more information, but as a quick screenshot to be able to see what the current status is, if that makes sense. Sure. Is there further discussion on this issue? I'm wondering if it would be helpful if we could actually have a draft of what Councilmember Scotchfield is talking about so that we could actually view it, and that way everybody can kind of look and see what they think about that. It's hard to envision it in your head, but any—Councilmember Bledsoe. Thank you, Chair. We had looked into it a little bit. I know that Louisville uses Board Match, which is an automated system, and it would take some software, obviously, on our side to use, but it would be much more friendly to the outgoing public and for us. You could go on Google real quickly on the website, pull up who's on the committees, how long, that kind of thing you could searchable. So just an opportunity to think of maybe it might be easier to produce reports that way as opposed to this thing, which, you know, a little encumbersant. So that's just an idea that we had. And the other thing to just think about, too, is how do we find new people to be on board? You know, United Way used to do the Get On Board program for those under 40, and they don't do that training anymore. So how we might be able to better encourage young people, having an online little friendlier system might help people who are like that to do it, A, and then, B, finding a mechanism to help them be worthy and trained for it. So just my suggestion. Thanks. I think those are really good suggestions, and I want to recognize Chief of Staff. Thank you so much. Commissioner. I really appreciate that. Reed. Thank you. I don't have any idea how that happened, but we are taking a look at the boards and commissions, how we do it. I think something electronic we've already started exploring, like board match, we will get that. In the meantime, we're happy to get what you all would like to see in some presentation and work with Council Member Scutchfield on getting something back to you that you could see a dashboard of the information you'd want. An awful lot of progress has been made on this before I was here the first time, so a lot of hard work is going into it. And I think there's been a lot of improvements, and we'll make more. I appreciate that. And maybe what we can do is keep it in here and then have a report back in April, because I believe March is going to be pretty packed. So maybe you all can bring us a report back in April. I'm sorry. If I could, I think what would be the best thing is we can do it as a report back, and then if anybody has any comments or concerns, we can do that on a quarterly basis and just have them give us the report in the new form. Okay. All righty. So there's some more council members that have signed in. Council Member Evans? Thank you, Chair. I know we're getting close. But I guess I'm a little confused on what the purpose for the reports will be. Are we trying to focus on recruiting individuals? And if that's the case, which is fine, should we not be more concerned with just where the vacancies are? And perhaps that might, I mean, I don't think I need this full list of everyone all the time. I would just be more concerned about what boards have vacancies and then focusing on what our role is in helping that not be. because, I mean, we've got people to do that, but I'm just going to confuse them what the purpose of us getting this information now is. I mean, I know initially we did want to know what was available, but then I thought we were going to have the discussion about whether or not some of them perhaps should be eliminated as well. I don't think we've addressed that either. So I'm just kind of curious to figure out what direction. we were going in that, or if that's still the case. Right. Council Member Scotch. Well, I think it was purely we wanted to be transparent. And right now, knowing who was on boards right now and knowing who was going off boards in the near future, we didn't know. We have people sitting on boards that are expired. We have people on boards that have been off the boards for several years that are still, quote, on the books for the boards. So I do think we need the full list until we have a system down that we're able to track it easily. And right now we don't have that. Okay. Is that an answer? Okay. All right. Council Member Akers, I'm sorry. I was, no. Okay. All right. Is there any more discussion on this subject matter? No? If not, I guess we'll just leave this in here and we'll come back in April then. The next item on our agenda is the ethics ordinance update, and I'll recognize Councilmember Evans. Thank you, Chair. We have received, I guess, the official memo from the ethics commission with comments on our proposed amendments. So the subcommittee will be meeting later on this month to go over that. we are reaching out to at least, in the very least, the chair of the Ethics Commission, Allison Conley. So perhaps that dialogue will go faster, but we have received it. Hopefully the subcommittee members have been able to review it so we can have a very full and helpful conversation, discussion about the comments that the commission had. So looking forward to that. Thank you, Council Member Evans. The next item on the agenda is the EMS service fees update. This is Council Member Henson. I know this was an item you referred, but I believe Commissioner Ford. I don't see Commissioner Ford here today. I was thinking that he was going to give us a quick timeline on what information would be prepared for this. Council Member Henson, do you know? Oh, there he is. Thank you, Commissioner Ford. Thank you, Council Member Lamb. Apologize for being just upstairs. We have implemented and put the emergency medical transport assistant as a resource in our toolkit under the emergency financial assistance program. There has not been much demand at all in regards to this program. However, we can continue to monitor it as we go forward and we'll incorporate that in our budget request for fiscal year 17. We are somewhat, as we mentioned during our presentation back in May, prohibited from fully advertising. But there may be other ways that we can communicate this resource to folks in the community who may need it. All right. Thank you. Is the commission or council members, are you all okay with moving? Okay. Ms. Henson, did you want to say anything? Council member? No? Okay. All right. The next item is CNG fueling station update. This is the final item on our agenda. And Council Member Maloney, I believe this item was referred by you. Yes. And do you have an update to provide? I have an update, and if you have any questions, I have the CAO to answer them. They have gone and redid the RFP. It has now gone to the state. The state has to okay it, and then it will go back out for the RFP to be sent out. So I believe it's where we are right now on that. That's accurate. And where we are is Commissioner Hoskins-Squire talked to the state this morning, and they don't approve or disapprove at this particular point until we issue. But we're going to issue. Now we're ready to issue the RFP, and we'll put it out next week. Thank you. And then we'll bring back to everybody and sort of go over what we found from it. All right. Thanks. So we'll leave this into committee as well, and maybe we'll know something in April, maybe. Okay. All right. And so then it takes us to the referred items in committee. We'll leave the aquatics program design on. The Parks Foundation, Council Member Scutchfield stepped out right now, but I'm assuming we're going to leave that in here. We've been over the review of the ethics coordinates. the ESR process, Council Member Bledsoe, I believe we're on track for March. Yes, okay. We still don't know anything about the Veterans Affairs, and Council Member Hensley's not here, so maybe I'll reach out to ask the staff if they could check to see what the intention of that item is so we can maybe move forward with that. Thank you all. And Council Member Fred Brown, the security cameras, do you have any information on? Commissioner, you can come to the podium there. We were going to put the item of security cameras, and you and I have talked about it a little bit. Is that still okay for April? I think it's fine. I think it needs to include Commissioner Bastin in the conversation because, again, I'm happy to do whatever, We're happy to talk about cameras, but we're getting to the realm of law enforcement, and I'm concerned about Park's role as we move forward. Okay, but we can still leave that on in April just for kind of a presentation, question, answer type of thing. Because when I put it in there, I knew it was something that is out there. A lot of communities are doing it. but I was kind of leaning toward maybe a pilot program to see how well it would work because we do have some cameras out there now. And so it's really information and see what we can do going forward. So April, if we can do it in April. Thank you. All right. All right, then. And then the legislative review, Vice Mayor Kay, I believe we've got that queued for April. Is that okay? Okay. And the CNG fueling station will be maybe Council Member Maloney will have that in April if we can. So the board's agencies and commissions will stay in here as well. The Bluegrass International, we have slated an update for June or July. And EMS Services, I believe, I guess we'll leave it in here for an update in the next few months. Is that okay, Councilmember Henson? Thank you. I wanted to ask Commissioner Ford one question. Is there any way of tracking unpaid fees, like if a person has received a bill for EMS services and they're not paid, Is that turned over to a collection agency? I suspect it may be rusty, and the folks in revenue may best be able to provide that information, but I can check with them and report back for you. I was thinking that might be a way of getting, you know, once a bill is delinquent or whatever, then along with a delinquency notice, we put a notice in their staying inability to pay. you can contact this number. And we wouldn't be singling out a person by their insurance or age or anything like that. So just a suggestion. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Chair. All right. Is there any other discussion on any matter in the council committee? Otherwise, is there a motion to adjourn? A motion made by Council Member Henson, seconded by Council Member Gibbs. Is there all in favor? Aye. Any opposed? I think we lost four. No, we've got five. 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