# Board of Architectural Review - May 24, 2017 > Auto-transcribed civic record · May 24, 2017 - **Permalink**: https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/meeting/4262 - **Source video**: https://lfucg.granicus.com/player/clip/4262?view_id=14&redirect=true - **Date**: 2017-05-24 - **Last revised**: May 24, 2017 - **Length**: 17,876 words - **Speakers**: Kate > ⚠️ **Auto-generated content.** Audio from the official Granicus video was auto-transcribed with OpenAI's open-source Whisper large-v3-turbo model, run locally by The Lexington Times. Structured facts were extracted with GPT-4o; the narrative summary was written by Anthropic Claude. Verbatim wording may contain errors. See [methodology](https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/about/methodology) or [report a correction](mailto:editor@lexingtonky.news). --- ## Meeting Overview The Board of Architectural Review convened on May 24, 2017, with the chair presiding over the session. The meeting addressed three main agenda items, including the review of minutes from the April 22, 2017 meeting, consideration of Certificate of Appropriateness applications, and conceptual review discussions. The board conducted 11 motions and votes throughout the meeting, with the Certificate of Appropriateness applications receiving approval. No public comments were recorded during this session, indicating the meeting focused primarily on board business and application reviews. ## Attendance The following members were present at the meeting on May 24, 2017: **Present:** • Catherine Bucks • Wayne Qerim • Jerry Hager • Scott Book • Reece Reinhold • Paul Ale • James Griggs • Andrew Mott All members were in attendance with no absences or late arrivals recorded. ## Votes and Decisions The board conducted eleven votes during the May 24, 2017 meeting, all by voice vote. Nine certificates of appropriateness were approved with conditions, and two items were postponed. **Approved Certificates of Appropriateness:** • **385 Oldham Avenue** - Passed with the condition that documentation of a completed easement minor plat be filed with the division of planning prior to COA issuance. • **381 Oldham Avenue** - Passed with the condition that documentation of a committed division for driveway planning staff be submitted prior to COA issuance. • **411 West Third Street** - Passed with the condition that any changes be resubmitted to staff for review and approval prior to starting work. • **422 East High Street** - Passed with the condition that rail details be provided to staff prior to certificate of appropriateness. • **602 Sayre Avenue** - Passed with the condition that once reviewed by any divisions, the project come to the board for approval. • **734 West Short Street** - Passed with the condition that any changes altering the submission be resubmitted prior to start of work. • **137 Ransom Avenue** - Passed with the condition that windows and doors in the garage be single-pane rather than multipane. • **249 South Limestone** - Passed with the condition that once reviewed by other divisions, changes come back to staff or board for review and approval prior to starting work. • **326 South Broadway** - Passed with the condition that panels between storefront sections be changed to aluminum material or panel material matching the aluminum framing of the storefront systems. **Postponed Items:** • **347 Linden Walk** - Decision postponed to June 7th. • **601 Boonesboro Avenue** - Discussion continued to July 12th. All votes were conducted by voice vote with no recorded individual vote counts or member positions documented. ## Contested Items The meeting featured one significant contested item that generated substantial debate among participants. **Use of Boral Material for Trim Replacement** A heated discussion emerged regarding the proposed use of Boral material for trim replacement on a historic property. The debate centered on whether this modern composite material would be appropriate for maintaining the historical integrity of the structure. The discussion was described as lengthy, with participants presenting arguments both supporting and opposing the use of Boral material. Those in favor likely emphasized practical considerations such as durability, maintenance requirements, and cost-effectiveness of the composite material. Opposition arguments presumably focused on historical preservation standards and the importance of maintaining authentic materials consistent with the property's original construction. The nature of the debate was characterized as heated, indicating strong feelings on both sides of the issue. This suggests the decision carried significant implications for the property in question, whether related to preservation standards, budget considerations, or long-term maintenance obligations. The extracted data does not specify the final outcome of this discussion or whether a resolution was reached during the meeting. Additionally, the specific participants involved in the debate and their individual positions are not detailed in the available information. This contentious item highlights the ongoing tension in historic preservation between maintaining authenticity and embracing practical modern solutions for property maintenance and restoration. ## Review minutes from April 22, 2017 The board conducted a review of the minutes from their previous meeting held on April 22, 2017. This agenda item served as an informational discussion to ensure accuracy and completeness of the prior meeting's record. The review process allowed board members to examine the documented proceedings from the April 22nd session and verify that the minutes accurately reflected the discussions, decisions, and actions taken during that meeting. This standard procedural item ensures proper record-keeping and maintains transparency in the board's operations. No specific concerns or corrections were noted during the review process, and the item concluded as an informational matter without requiring formal action or amendments to the previously recorded minutes. ## Certificate of Appropriateness Applications The board reviewed multiple applications for certificates of appropriateness for property modifications within historic districts during this meeting. The discussion involved several key participants including Catherine Bucks, Wayne Qerim, Jerry Hager, Scott Book, Reece Reinhold, Paul Ale, James Griggs, and Andrew Mott. The applications under consideration involved various proposed modifications to properties located in historic districts, requiring board approval to ensure compliance with historic preservation standards. Board members and applicants discussed the specific details of each proposed project, examining how the modifications would impact the historic character of the properties and surrounding areas. During the review process, participants presented information about their proposed changes and addressed any questions or concerns raised by board members. The discussion covered the technical aspects of the modifications and their compatibility with existing historic district guidelines. Following the comprehensive review and discussion of the various applications, the board approved the certificates of appropriateness. This approval allows the property owners to proceed with their proposed modifications while maintaining compliance with historic preservation requirements. The approval of these certificates demonstrates the board's commitment to balancing property owners' needs for modifications with the preservation of historic district character and integrity. ## Conceptual Review The board conducted a conceptual review for a proposed addition at 440 West Third Street during this meeting. This agenda item was structured as a discussion session to provide preliminary feedback on the development proposal. The conceptual review process allows the board to examine early-stage development plans and provide guidance to applicants before they submit formal applications. This preliminary review helps identify potential issues and ensures proposals align with local planning guidelines and community standards. The discussion focused on the proposed addition to the property located at 440 West Third Street. During conceptual reviews, boards typically examine factors such as building design, scale, compatibility with surrounding structures, and compliance with zoning requirements. This agenda item was classified as informational, meaning no formal decisions or votes were taken. The purpose was to gather initial feedback and allow board members to express any concerns or suggestions regarding the proposed development. This early input helps developers refine their plans before proceeding with formal application processes. The conceptual review serves as an important step in the development approval process, providing a forum for dialogue between the applicant, board members, and potentially community stakeholders. It allows for adjustments to be made to proposals while they are still in preliminary stages, potentially saving time and resources for all parties involved. No specific transcript timestamps were available for this agenda item, and no key speakers were identified in the meeting records. The outcome remained informational, with the board providing preliminary guidance on the 440 West Third Street addition proposal. --- ## Decisions - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Approve certificate of appropriateness for 385 Oldham Avenue - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Approve certificate of appropriateness for 381 Oldham Avenue - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Approve certificate of appropriateness for 411 West Third Street - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Approve certificate of appropriateness for 422 East High Street - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Approve certificate of appropriateness for 602 Sayre Avenue - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Approve certificate of appropriateness for 734 West Short Street - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Approve certificate of appropriateness for 137 Ransom Avenue - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Approve certificate of appropriateness for 249 South Limestone - **Motion** — postponed (0-0): Postpone decision on 347 Linden Walk - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Approve certificate of appropriateness for 326 South Broadway - **Motion** — postponed (0-0): Continue discussion on 601 Boonesboro Avenue --- ## Full transcript Music We'll be right back. Thank you. Thank you. Good afternoon. The May 24 meeting of the Board of Architectural Review. We appreciate those of you who are in attendance today. The Board was established by zoning ordinance in 1958. Our first historic district was Grants Park, and we now have a total of 15 historic districts. The District of Historic Preservation Office maintains a full-time staff to assist you with your projects. The Board encourages and recommends that applicants use them as a resource. The Historic Preservation Office is located at 101 East Vine Street, Room 220. It is our procedure to consider applications in the order in which they are listed on their agenda. In each case, we'll have a presentation by the staff and we'll hear any additional comments from the applicant. The Board will then ask questions or make comments regarding the application and hear comments from any other interested parties. The Chair will then ask the Board members to enter a motion. If you wish to address the board, please come to the microphone and state your name and address for the public record. We also ask that you write your name on the sign-in sheet by the door so that the information can be recorded correctly. I would like to make a note of the following staff approvals before we begin our review applications. There are certain items that the staff can approve, eliminating the necessity for all applicants to appear before the board. As can be seen from the agenda sheet, the staff has been extremely busy this past couple of weeks. We have 34 approvals to go through. In the Ashland Park Historic District, remove a dead pear tree. At 101 South Hanover Avenue, replace satellite dish. At 125 South Hanover Avenue, install landscape plan. 242 South Hanover Avenue remove deteriorated pin oak tree in the South Ashland Central Avenue Historic District at 221 South Ashland Avenue renovate garage at 254 South Ashland Avenue restore front porch in the Ellsford Historic District at 233 Kentucky Avenue remove dead persimmon tree at 334 Rosmer Avenue remove deteriorated tree At 326 Clay Avenue, renovate front porch. 336 Lafayette Avenue, remove tree. 337 Linden Walk, remove deteriorated trees. 347 Linden Walk, remove deteriorated trees. In the Belcourt Historic District, at 543 Boonesboro Avenue, renovate structure. Again, at 543 Boonesboro Avenue, replace fence. At 597 Boonesboro Avenue, remove deteriorated tree. at 202 Bell Place at 601 Russell Avenue, Tuck Point Chimney. In the Caden Town Historic District at 763 Caden Lane, install fence and gate. In the Constitution Historic District at 194 North Limestone, install landscape plan along Martin Luther King. In the Fayette Park Historic District at 438 Fayette Park, remove dead tree. At 228, in the Grand Spark Historic District, 228 Market Street, install landscape plan. Also, 247 North Mill Street, install radon pipe. In the north side Historic District, at 418 West 6th Street, install landscape plan, remove tree. At 461 West 2nd Street, renovate front porch. And at 421 West 3rd Street, install skylights and garage. In the Seven Parks Historic District at 111 Dantzler Drive, enclosed rear yard with new fence and gate. At 1620 Nicholasville Road, renovated structure. At 150 Shawnee Place, renovated structure. At 431 South Mill Street, replaced Lexan material. In the Western Suburbs Historic District at 580 West Short Street, renovated structure. at 731 West Main Street, re-landscape front yard, 733 West Main Street, re-landscape front yard, 735 West Main Street, re-landscape front yard. At 625 West Short Street, install patio. And finally, in the Woodford Heights District, 308 Madison Place, re-roof structure, and at 834 West Maxwell Street, restore window. We will now turn our attention to the applications that require our approval by the Board. And I'll turn first now to 385 Oldham Avenue in the Ellsworth Historic District, construct driveway, remove tree. We also have an email, I believe, on this one. Yes, Ms. Terrell couldn't be here tonight. She's in Europe, so she sent the email and agrees with the staff report. And I'll note from the email that she agrees to all the commissions and recommendations made by the staff. I will note for the record that there are three conditions. They seem to be fairly standard, which are submit documentation that a completed easement minor plant has been filed with a LFUCG Division of Planning for the driveway to Historic Preservation Division staff prior to issuance of COA. That comes from the application overlapping, I believe, the property line. Is that correct? Yes, sir. There's not enough room completely on the 385 property. She owns both properties. Right. She's going to provide an easement for that driveway. That's correct. And this application should be heard in conjunction with 381 Oldham Avenue. Yes, sir. Which has the same conditions, correct? Yes. Okay. We'll take them in order, though. The final two conditions of any changes need to be made after work is started that alter the information submitted, resubmit the changes to staff for review and approval prior to the start of the effected work, and once reviewed by the other divisions, resubmit any changes to staff or board for review and approval prior to start of work. Let's go ahead and take a motion on the first one, but first, are there any comments or observations from the audience? Any observations or comments from the board members? If not, the Chair is ready for a motion only on Attachment 1, 385 Oldham. Mr. Chair, regarding case number 14300385-B, a move to approve the application for certificate appropriateness, conditional upon the following recommendation to the staff. Number one, submit documentation that a completed easement minor plat has been filed by the LFUCG Division of Planning. for the driveway to the Historic Preservation Division staff prior to the issuance of the COA. Number two, if any changes need to be made after the work is started, alter the information submitted, resubmit the changes to staff for review and approval prior to the start of the affected work. And finally, number three, once reviewed by other LFUCG divisions, resubmit any changes to staff or board for review and approval prior to the start of any work. Okay. Do I have a second? Second. Any discussion on the motion? If not, the Chair calls the question. All those in favor of the motion, please say aye. Aye. All those opposed, say nay. Motion passes. I don't think I need to reiterate the conditions on Attachment 2 since they're identical to Attachment 1. This is in respect to 381 Oldham Avenue. Do I have a motion? Mr. Chair, regarding case number 14300381, 381 Oldham Avenue, I move to approve the application for a certificate of appropriateness with the same conditions as last time. One, submit documentation that a completed easement minor plat has been filed with the LFUCG Division of Planning for the driveway to the Historic Preservation Division staff prior to the issuance of a COA. If any changes need to be made after work is started, that alter the information submitted, resubmit the changes to staff for review and approval prior to the start of the affected work. And number three, once reviewed by other LFUCG divisions, resubmit any changes to staff or board for review and approval prior to the start of work. Okay. Do I have a second? A second. Any comments or discussions on the motion? If not, the Chair will call the motion. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed, nay. The motion passes and the certificate is approved. Turning now to case number three, or attachment number three, 411 West 3rd Street. Is the applicant our owner here? Good afternoon. Thank you for braving the rain. Yes. I'm Catherine Bucks. I own 411 West 3rd Street with my husband. Okay. Ms. Bucks, have you reviewed the recommendations of the staff? Yes. Are you in agreement with them? Yes. All right. Any comments or observations by the board members? Any questions or observations from the audience? I will note for the record that the conditions are pretty standard. They are simply one, if any changes are made that alter the information submitted, you'll resubmit the changes to the staff for review and approval prior to the start of work. And the second one being, once reviewed by the other divisions, any changes come back to staff or board for review and approval prior to the start of work. Do I have a motion? Mr. Chairman, relative to case number 18800411-K at 411 West 3rd Street, I move that we approve the application for a certificate of appropriateness for the work proposed in the submittal and reviewed and approved by the staff with the following conditions. Number one, if any changes are made that alter the information submitted, resubmit the changes to staff for review and approval prior to the start of work. Number two, once reviewed by other LFUCG divisions, any changes come back to staff or board for review and approval prior to the start of work? Okay, do I have a second? Second. Any further discussion or comments about the motion? If not, the Chair will call the question. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed, nay. The motion passes and the certificate is approved. Thank you, Mrs. Bucks. Thank you. All right. Going to attachment number four at 322 East High Street in the Ailsford Historic District. And I see that the applicant's here. Say your name, please. Wayne Karam. All right. Mr. Karam, have you reviewed the conditions and recommendations made by the staff? Yes, sir. Are you in agreement with them? Yes, sir. All right. just briefly, they recommend that provide final railing details to the staff prior to the issuance of the certificate appropriateness. Number two would be if any changes are made, that also the information submitted, resubmit the changes to staff for review and approval prior to the start of the work. And of course number three, once reviewed by the other divisions, any changes come back to staff or board for review and approval prior to the start of work. Any comments or questions from the board members regarding this application? Any comments or questions from the audience? If not, the Chair is ready for a motion. All right. Mr. Chairman, in regards to case number 09290322-D, I move to approve the certificate of appropriateness with the following conditions. One, provide any final rail details to staff prior to issuance of certificate of appropriateness. Two, if any changes are made that alter the information submitted, resubmitted changes to the staff for review and approval prior to start of work. And three, once reviewed by other LFUCT divisions, any changes come back to the staff or board for review and approval prior to start of work. Okay. Do I have a second? Second. Any discussion of the motion? If not, the Chair calls the question. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed, nay. Certificates approved. Thank you so much. Turning now to attachment number 5, 602 Sayre Avenue. Is the applicant here? If you come to. If you state your name for the record, please, and address. Jerry Hager, 602 Sayre Avenue. All right. Mr. Hager, have you had a chance to review the conditions? I have. We seem to be pretty routine. Yes. Are you in agreement with them? Yes. Okay. The Chair will simply note for the record that the two conditions are the standard ones. Once reviewed by the other divisions, any changes come back to staff or board for review and approval prior to the start of work. And they reversed them this time. If any changes are made that alter the information submitted, resubmit the change to the staff for review and approval prior to the start of work. Any comments or questions about the application from the board members? Do I have any comments from a quickly dwindling audience? Do I have any comments or questions from the audience? If not, the Chair is ready for a motion. Mr. Chair, regarding case number 16780602-N at 602 Sayre Avenue, I move to approve the application for certificate of appropriateness, conditional upon the following staff recommendations. Number one, once reviewed by other LFUCG divisions, any changes come back to the staff or board for review and approval prior to the start of work. And number two, if any changes are made to alter the information submitted, resubmit the changes to the staff for review and approval prior to the start of the work. Okay. Do I have a second? I second. All those, any comments or questions about the motion itself? Not hearing any, the Chair will call the question. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed, nay. Motion passes and your certificates approved. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. All right, going to attachment number six at 734 West Short Street, construct new screen porch and enlarge deck. Is the applicant here? Mr. Clark was emailed his staff report, and we have not heard whether he would be here. Okay. The Chair will note that the recommendations are the standard ones that, number one, any changes are made that alter the information submitted, resubmit the changes to the staff for review and approval prior to the start of work, and the other one being once reviewed by the other divisions, resubmit changes to staff or board for review and approval prior to the start of work. I don't see a need to delay consideration of this particular application. Do I have any questions or concerns from the board members regarding the application? No, I had a comment for the owner that the section doesn't show screening under the deck, and if he is serious about wanting to keep bugs out, that he should be screening the underside of the deck surface as well. It's just a detail. It doesn't have anything to do with our review. You might want to pass that on to him. I can pass that on. And he's right. It's a way to keep animals and bugs and whatever. Anyone from the audience have a comment or observation? If not, I think the Chair is ready for a motion then. Mr. Chair, regarding case number 17170734-F at 734 West Short Street, move to approve the application to first certificate appropriateness pursuant to the conditions recommended by staff, by staff, those being that if any changes are made that alter the information submitted, that those changes shall be resubmitted to the staff for review and approval prior to the start of the work. And number two, once reviewed by other LFUCG divisions, any changes will be resubmitted to the staff or the board for review and approval prior to the start of any work. All right. Do I have a second? Second. Any discussion concerning the motion? Hearing none, the Chair will call the question. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed nay. The certificate's approved along with the suggestion. All right. Turning now to attachment number seven at 137 Ransom Avenue, Demolish Garage and Build Garage. Is the applicant here? If you come forward. State your name and address for the record, please. Scott Book, 1320 Bryan Avenue. Okay, Mr. Book, I notice that the only condition of any substance is the windows and doors in the garage be one over one in lieu of multi-pane. Are you in agreement with that? Yes, sir. All right. And, of course, the other two conditions are pretty standard, which we have read more than once today. Are you in agreement with those? Yes, sir. All right. Any questions or concerns from the Board members? If not, any questions or concerns from the audience? If not, the Chair is ready for a motion. Mr. Chairman, in regards to case number 15740137-0, I make a motion to approve the Certificate of Appropriateness with the following conditions recommended by the staff. One, windows and doors in the garage be one-to-one in lieu of multi-pane. Two, once reviewed by other LFUCG divisions, any changes come back to staff or board for review and approval prior to start of work. And three, if any changes are made that alter the information submitted, resubmit the changes to staff for review and approval prior to start of work. Okay, do I have a second? I'll second. Any comments or concerns about the motion? If not, the Chair will call the questions. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed, nay. The certificate's approved. Thank you. All right, we'll turn now to attachment number 8, 249 South Limestone in the South Hill Historic District. The scope of work is change of opening, and there are a number of items that I won't go through at this point. The, is the applicant present? Yes. Will you please state your name and address for the record? Reese Reinhold, 244 South Ashland. Mr. Reinhold. Have you reviewed the conditions which are the standard ones of once reviewed by the other divisions, any changes come back to staff or board for review and approval prior to the start of work? And have any changes made that alter the information submitted, resubmit the changes to staff for review and approval? Yes. Prior to the start of work, do you agree with those? Yes. All right. Any questions or observations from the board members? Any observations or questions from the audience? If not, then the Chair is ready for a motion. Mr. Chairman, relative to case number 11670249-H, 249 South Limestone, I move that we approve this application for a certificate of appropriateness for the work proposed in this submittal and reviewed and approved by the staff with the following conditions. Number one, once reviewed by other LFUCG divisions, any changes come back to staff or board for review and approval prior to the start of work. Number two, if any changes are made that alter the information submitted, resubmit the changes to staff for review and approval prior to the start of work. Okay, do I have a second? Second. Any comments or questions about the motion itself? If not, the Chair will call the question. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed, nay. Certificates approved. Thank you. Okay. I will note that we are now coming up on attachment number nine, which is 601 Boonesboro Avenue. I'm going to exercise my prerogative. I realize there's going to be a discussion about this one, so I'm going to set this one aside until we sound the rest of the agenda. All right, turning now to attachment number 10, 347 Linden Walk in the Ellsworth Historic District. Scope of work being constructed, two-story edition. Is the applicant present? The applicant was emailed his staff report and is not present. You will note left on your desk that there was one letter that you received. And I didn't see it. It should be right behind the three. There's a letter of basically an objection, I take it. Yes, sir. And the text of the letter basically is saying, as you'll know from the enclosed photographs, there is in fact no addition to 347 Linda Walk to which the second floor can be added. The proposal makes no sense. Do you want to clarify that? Yes, sir. The board approved a one-story addition and the demolition of an existing addition in that location in a previous meeting. Since then, the applicant has filed a new application to increase that approved addition to a two-story addition. Okay. Are either Mr. Birchfield or Mrs. Birchfield here? I don't see them. Not that I'm aware of. Staff did try to contact them to talk to them today and left a message explaining the facts. All right, the Chair will note that the recommendations are the standard ones. There's one substance to provide final doors and window details and specifications of staff prior to start of work. What is the desire of the, given the objection, do we need to postpone this or should we go forward with it? My sentiment is that I don't see any reason why we need not to move forward. Any concerns or observations about the application? My concern is that the drawings are so sparse. I'm having trouble understanding what was proved before and what the changes are. You know, all we have, am I correct? All we have are a side elevation. and a rear elevation, which is all that would be seen. We have no plans in this package? No, sir. I don't have a rear elevation either. I have a front one. I can show them on the... Well, you know, I'll tell you what. Let's do this. Let's move on to the next one, and we'll come back to this one. And before you leave that, if I could, I think in light of the fact that the owner isn't here and there are some questions, could the staff just weigh in? It's totally the Board's decision, but could the staff just weigh in that I believe at this point we would recommend that it be postponed to the next hearing. I'm not trying to steer what you all decide. I'm not disagreeing with you. I think probably that would be the best course. You all agree? If so, then let me have a motion to that effect. Yeah. So we haven't opened the case, so we're just postponing it? That's correct. All right. To the date of the next meeting, which is June the – we're all going. Ah! 7th? 7th. All right. Our attorney has confirmed. It's the 7th. Do I have a motion to postpone this matter to the case number 117-20347-G to June 7? So moved. Do I have a second? Second. All right. All those in favor of any discussion about the motion? Any observations from the audience? If not, the Chair will call the question of postponing this matter to June 7, 2017. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed, nay. Motion passes. and this matter is postponed. Turning now to attachment number 11 at 326 South Broadway in South Hill Historic District, construct elevator stair addition. Is the applicant here? Yes, sir. Good afternoon. Would you state your name for the record? Paul Lee with Studio A Architecture. Okay. Have you reviewed the conditions? I have, yes. Are you in agreement with them? Yes. All right. Just to review, the first one is provide railing details and specifications to staff prior to start of a certificate of appropriateness. Number two is change the panels between the storefront sections to wood siding for continuity. Sure. You in agreement with that one? Yes, sir. And, of course, the other two are the standard ones. If any changes are made that alter the information submitted, resubmit the changes to staff for review and approval prior to start of work. And finally, once reviewed by the other divisions, resubmit changes to staff or board for review and approval prior to start of work. All right. Any questions or concerns from the board members? I would like to discuss the recommendation to change the material in the square front section to wood siding. I don't agree with that recommendation and so I would like to have some discussion about it. Okay. I hate to do this to you, but since we're going to have a conversation and I hopped over another one that's ahead of you, let me go back to that one, okay? Okay. And we'll come back to you in just a minute. Okay. All right. Let's then turn to the Boonesboro Avenue application 601 Boonesboro attachment number nine. Scope of work is replace the trim with composite materials known as Brow, B-R-R-A-L. And is the applicant here? Yes. Jim Griggs at 600 McCall's Mill Road. And I'm assuming for the record that you're in disagreement with the staff's recommendation of disapproval. Yes. All right, let's have a staff presentation then, please. Of course, this is the property at 601 Boonesboro, and we have seen this property come before the board several times this year. Most recently on April 12th, where there was a request and approval to rebuild the front porch, and that request was granted. and due to the fact this was a complete rebuild, the proposal to install the boreal material was permitted at that time. At this time, the applicant is requesting the Board of Architecture review to replace all the exterior trim work, which would include cornice, fascia, crown mold, brick mold, and sills on the main house and the front and the dormer. Now, the rear dormer went before the board also and was approved to be riddened at a previous meeting. And at that time, the material was sort of a question mark, and he would like to replace that material with Burrell as well. And of course, one thing, too, to be noted about the windows, staff did review the condition of the windows. last year and a permit was granted to replace the windows. He is also desirous of replacing the brick mold of those windows as well with the borel material. Guidelines are included for reference. Findings. The proposal to replace existing historic trim on the main house with composite material of borel or borel is not appropriate nor within the guidelines. While borel is material that acts similar to wood, it is a composite, synthetic material, and guidelines regarding rehabilitation and renovation of architectural details and features respectively state that architectural details should be maintained, retained, and should not be removed or changed if original to the building. Should be repaired versus replaced. If missing, that is consistent with properties of similar design, age, and detailing in the surrounding area, it should be replaced with approximate the same shape, material, color, texture, and other visual material. It should not be covered with artificial siding. The philosophical approach to the guidelines is to make repairs and replacement of in-kind materials. If elements start to be replaced with either non-visual materials or with composite materials during the renovation of the building, the building starts to lose its historic integrity. The guidelines focus on replacement as need with the intention of retention of historic fabric, and the replacement of the architectural detail elements due to deteriorations based on the replacement using in-kind detailing, profile, and material. In addition, the presence for allowing composite material on historic structures is a very difficult path, because our guidelines discuss general use of synthetics to encompass many materials, not just Borrell, And even on additions and garages, vinyl is not permitted, and most composites are vinyl PVC-based materials. This, again, returns to the argument that wood provides an in-kind replacement that is proven to be able to replace in any deteriorated material with accuracy and longevity when done appropriately. As stated in the technical brief 16 regarding the use of substitute materials on historic buildings, It says, in the last four decades, however, many, partly as a result of historic preservation movement, new families of synthetic materials such as fiber, glass, acrylic, polymers, and epoxy resins have been developed and are used as substitute materials in construction. In some respect, these new products that often has never had high-tech materials show great promise. In others, they are satisfactory since they are often difficult to integrate physically with porous historic materials. It may be too new to establish solid performance records. The preservation grief continues to state, because of overzealous use of the substitute materials of historic structures, all preservation options should be explored thoroughly before substitute materials. Staff suggests the historic fabric material be retained, if not available, then replaced with new materials to match historic fabric. Recommendation, staff recommends disapproval of the replacement of the trim, cornice, soffit, fascia, brick mold, crown mold, with the composite of borel. And of course, the applicant is present. Okay, the Chair will note there are a couple of typos in the presentation. One is in the first line on the second page, in some respect, these newer products. It should be N-E-W-E-R. And at the end of that paragraph, I believe the words are used was omitted from the quote. I just double-checked that quote, and that's what I've determined. Thank you. So let's correct those. Thank you for both of those. Okay. All right. You ever come before the podium? Yes. And now you can say your name. My name is Jim Griggs at 600 McCall's Mill Road. Okay, and we've had some conversation regarding this issue, but I suspect that you would like to explain to us your rationale and reasoning. Well, I think that in the staff report, they are saying that we want to replace the existing trim work with composite material borel, but we really just want to replace some existing historic trim. Much of what we need to replace is not original. And I'd like to show you some slides of the interior of the house that shows the damage that has occurred there over time. And then I have with me a Borrell representative, Andrew Mott, who can speak to the characteristics of Borrell and the lab testing that they do that accelerates aging, and some historic buildings, some case studies where they've used Burrell, including Shakertown. So he'd like to speak for five or ten minutes when I'm done. Now, I've got some slides I'd like to show you. There's three and a half minutes. You want him to do the presentation first and then slides, or slides first and then his presentation? Well, I thought I'd show these slides so you know that we're talking about a house that's really, was so close to falling in on itself. Okay. Because I think that what happened here six weeks ago when I was in front of you with the front porch, and after a long discussion, Boral was accepted because, you know, to summarize, that it was a total rebuild. And that speaks directly to today's request, because not only have the staff allowed us to replace the windows is because the sashes are so deteriorated. But like the front port, the cornice is being completely rebuilt, and I've got plenty of evidence to show you that it's pretty much deteriorated structurally and aesthetically around the whole house. So that's what I'm hoping will put me in a category where replacing all this trim might be acceptable. So I don't recall. There may need to be a little clarification on that, but what's your query? I don't recall approving Burrell for the rebuild of the front porch. It was approved specific and only to the front porch, and it was tied to the fact that it is going to be a totally new construction. That's right. Because the front porch is entirely missing. No element of it survives. That's right. but we made the equivalent of sort of a new addition to the back. And so that's the difference. It's why the Burrell was able to be considered for that front porch, was that it is building a new element in the place where something had been missing for years. Okay. You had a clarification as well? I'm sorry? You had a clarification as well, or was it? That was the same clarification. Let me, you're not speaking of the flooring on the front porch, are you? No, it's just a poured concrete. Current existence is a poured concrete slab sitting there. Isn't it? No, no, the outcome was that it's to have a wood floor. That's correct, but the actual foundation is concrete block. Well, concrete block, but it is not a historic material in the way it's physically sitting there currently. And what the board's actions reflected was to install newly built a wood-floored front porch. Okay. Is that clear? Well, sort of. Well, let me know more if you need it. Let's go ahead with the presentation of your slides. Thank you. Okay. Do I point this back at you? This is what we bought. The house was owned by a hoarder and became uninhabitable. Gas and electric service was shut off in 1996. Code enforcement levied $23,000 in fines, penalties, and interest over a 15-year period. LFUCG foreclosed. We were the high bidder. We intend to make this our home. These photos show our effort to preserve historic fabric where it is reasonable to do so and provide evidence where it is beyond repair or missing entirely. This house was filled to the brim. Good Lord. Here's the same view after we emptied those rooms behind the doors. Oh, I thought I emptied that. The floor system is rotted. The ceiling plaster is rotted. The walls plaster is rotted. And there's mold throughout. We made the decision to gut the entire house. This is with the plaster removed. Notice the tilt of the hearth. The basement was hoarded into also. There's a water table from the town branch. Every time we have a big rain event, it rises, and water comes out through that dirt floor and finds its way to a floor drain. But part of the reason this house was eaten up with termites is that the basement was damp, and it wasn't occupied for 20 years, and no heat. So the floor system was rotted out. We decided to start rebuilding this house, we needed to stop that water. So I've got a few slides that show how we did that. We dug down, poured new footers for the main beam, dug a trench around the foundation so we could support the dirt underneath the foundation, formed it, used some Owens Corning Tough and Dry to wick water that would creep under the foundation down into the gravel, filled it full of rebar, poured concrete, then took the forms off and started digging so we'd have a little extra headroom. And filled it with gravel and poured a concrete floor. We also salvaged the flooring up above. It's heart pine, sort of an extinct species. And we took it up, Kim and I did, took out the nails and squared it up and bundled it. Kim refinished all the interior doors. I'm trying to show you that we care about the original fabric of the house. And she cleaned the hardware and restored the locks. The floor joist damage, water from above, termites from below, made it unusable. So we removed the floor joist. The foundation ledge was repaired. A pressure-treated plate and band was installed, and the floor joists replaced one room at a time. the foundation ledge was uneven we repointed the whole thing but we left the top course loose so that we could set it out on a laser line and that cornerstone was so handsome that instead of tearing it out I drilled holes in it below the laser line and broke the top of it off and and there it is finished out with the floor above it, and that's the finished basement. Now, this is what I was really trying to get to. Those two-by-sixes are the ceiling above, and they extend over the brick wall and become the cornice. The trouble is rot and termite damage. This is the most severe but over the years as the box gutters failed these 2x6's have been cut off and spliced into, tails added. That's new framing on the interior but those 2x4's, there's four of them showing, one with the green end on it, just the little 2x4's, they go out over the brick wall and become the structure of the of the cornice and that happens in several places around the house. Eventually, the sheathing was extended over the box gutters, the crown molding removed, the modern gutters installed, the original soffit and fascia and its supporting structure has been patched and modified to the point where it should be replaced uniformly. There, you're seeing the overshot box gutters, with that little flip up. I guess I could try to use this. I don't know. Does this have an on-off switch? Oh, right there. Oh, I've got it. So there's the overshot gutter. This modern gutter added. The soffits pieced together every three feet. You can see the joints in it. And that's because of the rotting out of the original box gutter and then those tails that were nailed onto the two-by-sixes behind that soffit. And in this case, because those attic vents are illegal because of their proximity to the property line, so that gable end has to be fireproofed. This is that same Gable Inn looking at the neighbor's driveway so you can see the proximity to the property line. This is showing a host of crimes. The porch roof, which we're going to replace and make flat, it's at a 412 pitch now and it cuts into the cornice. And so the cornice behind that has been destroyed. And of course you can see the overshot gutter there. But over here, the same thing, the roof tears into the cornice. This is rotted out. And there's multiple large holes in this roof here and here. and the hanging gutter is evident there and across there and across the front. So the next slide is of that dormer, that front dormer. You can see the siding is shingled over and the tar is covering rotted framework. And, of course, the window is going to be replaced and the roof is going to be replaced. So when I'm thinking about the work I need to do, if you're replacing the siding and you're replacing the window and you're replacing the roof, then you might as well, and the trim's rotted, you might as well do something about that too. Here's another picture of the soffit around on the other side of the house where you've got six pieces of soffit material in just under 14 feet. then around on the back where that addition and we are redesigning that addition to have a flat roof like the front porch so we'll have a cornice all the way across the back of the house but when that was installed in the 50s they tore the cornice off the whole back part of the house so really all four sides of the house the cornice is a mess and that's why I was hoping to look at it as a total rebuild and to be uniform about it. That's all I've got to say about this, but I'd like to answer some questions if you've got some, and if Andrew can come out and tell you a little bit about oral. Let's go with Andrew and let him do his work. Let's go with Andrew and let him do his presentation and then. Here you go. Would that be appropriate, board members? Yeah. Okay. All right. If you'll state your name and your business address for the record, please. Andrew Mott, and it's 427 Oregon Street in Cincinnati. And so your last name, please. M-O-T-T. Okay. All right. So I just want to give you guys a little bit of background on the product and on the company as well, and also give you a couple historical examples where it's been used or replaced wood. You need to speak a little louder. Sorry. Speak directly in there. I know. I'm trying not to speak too loud. Okay. It is a composite, but it's made of a different makeup, the composite. It's made from fly ash, which is the byproduct of coal combustion. It's combined with the polyurethane. so even though it is a composite, it's a different type of composite. That mixture contains no wood fillers, so it's not going to rot. There's no wood fillers for moisture to cycle in it, so it's not going to knock the paint off the product or when the product can be taken straight to grade or straight to the roof line or even soaked in a bucket of water and cycled to hot pavement all day and it will not rot. And we've had tons and tons of customers that have been turned on to the product because of that and the ease of the install. It's also dimensionally stable as well. The only other trim product on the market that doesn't absorb any moisture, maybe seen as the end game at one point, is a PVC product. The problems that they seem to feel with PVC products is when it's painted a dark color, it expands and contracts a lot because of thermal expansion contraction. With True Exterior you can paint it boral, which the product is called True Exterior. Sorry, I refer to it as True Exterior a lot, but it's Boral True Exterior. It can be painted a dark color or white, anything in between, and it's not going to change the expansion and contraction. It's very, very minimal. So when you solve the moisture issues and you solve the movement issues, you really knock down the guidelines for installation. The installation becomes very simple then when there's not restrictions from grade and there's not restrictions from the roof line. You don't need to pry many ends. Like I said, the makeup is fly ash and polymers. It's minimum 70% recycled material, which is that fly ash. It has a cradle to cradle certification. The dust, when you cut it, the product is created as a nuisance dust, so it's not harmful. And although it's been only out for, I think the first house that it went on was in 2008, I believe, we do have accelerated testing in a first-class research and development center down in San Antonio, Texas. They have accelerated testing. They've put it through thousands and thousands of freeze-thaw cycles, almost to the point where they've stopped freezing and thawing it. They also have what is basically a glorified tanning bed, and it simulates 30 to 40 years of UV rays on the product. So we do have accelerated testing. Another thing about the product being a relatively young product is that if you're not familiar with boryl, a lot of people associate boryl with boryl bricks, or that's what they think about when they think of boryl. We are the number one manufacturer of brick in the United States, the number one manufacturer of culture, manufacturer stone, which is cultured stone, and also the number one clay and concrete roof tile. So we've taken other products to market and been successful with those products and brought good products to the market. And we're doing it again with the Truxteer, so it really does solve issues. And finally, I have some examples, and the last one is a pretty local example. And I also have a few for your reference as well. if you want any contact information on any of these places, I can get it for you. You can get testimonials from other historical districts in the country that have used the product, whether it be siding or trim. This is the Chautauqua Institute in New York. They replaced all the siding, and this is before we had our architectures. We have a line of siding called the Craftsman Collection. This is before we had the Craftsman Collection. and actually milled flat stock trim from, or milled the siding from flat stock trim to make a cove look for this one. This is kind of hard to tell, kind of hard to see, but that's the Avalon Theater in Maryland. This is another example. This is in Hershey, Pennsylvania. The Hershey Homestead, they replaced all of the old rotting wood siding with true exterior siding. Another, it's kind of hard to tell here too. This is in Tecumseh, Michigan. All that detail, all the trim detail, everything except for the decking there because it's a non-structural product. It's all true exterior. That's all been made from true exterior. So you can get the architectural need or the detail that you're really looking for, but without the worry of the paint coming off or the product rotting in itself. This is an 1898 door face that was, pieces were glued together. We don't make panels yet, we will eventually, but pieces were glued together and the door face was routed to replicate that of a 1989 door. This is in Dayton, Ohio. These are a couple right here that are in Indiana. I'm just really showing the mitering detail on the corners how crisp you can get it to look. Here's that Chautauqua Institute again where the product's going up. This is in Michigan where they replaced an old train car. They replaced the whole side of it with the true exterior. There's just a little baluster that was made from pieces glued together just to show the workability of it. that it really is workable and meets the demands of today's trim installer. Here is Shaker Village. I think this is the West Family Wash House. If you look above it, and there's a couple extra pictures too, you can see that old poplar, all the paint coming off of it and the poplar rotting. And you can tell they had painted over it numerous times. There's a pretty thick layer of paint on there. And they're actually taking our 5 quarter by 6 board, ripping it in half, and putting their own shaker bevel on it, whatever matched that old traditional bevel that they had. They're pre-drilling and then using those old triangular nails and hand-nailing everything in, too. So the product can take a little bit of a beating with a hammer and still not crack or bust or be so brittle. This is Shaker Town at Pleasant Hill? Yeah, this is in there. Okay. Yep. And they were doing just this first house. I haven't been out there in a while, but they were looking to get approval to do, there's probably 15 other buildings that look just like this one in the same color siding. These buildings are on the National Historic Register, right? I believe so, yeah. Okay. Are they also doing the trim on that house with Boral? Yeah. There's a couple of additional pictures. So this was kind of a little bit of a test for them to do the first house like this. They've been trying to get this approved for a while out there, and they let them do it on this first house, and then they're going to see how it goes. And I think it's a really nice testament to our product when other people come to the Shaker Village and ask, what kind of wood are you installing now to replace the failing wood? So there's a final picture. and I think that's all I have. And I have other examples of, I can get ones from Charleston, South Carolina, a German village in Columbus, Ohio, some of the top historical districts in the country that have used the product and get you some more testimonials if needed. So, and that's all. If you have any questions. Stay put. Any questions? Yeah. Mr. Powell, any questions? I think you've answered the main question I had, Matthew, which was regarding the length of time that the product's been in the field and the quality of the testing, how much confidence we can have in the product. I've gotten stung in the past using a product that hadn't been properly vetted. The company went out of business, product failed, and I got stuck with it. Yeah, I know. So I'm pretty shy about that. Oh, I know. That makes complete sense. But yeah, like I said, the testing, the machines that they have down there are pretty top of the line, first class. That whole area, the technology that goes behind in making the product in itself is pretty cool. And then also, I always say the warranty on the product is only as good as the company that stands behind it. And Boral is a $5 billion company. and we weren't going to roll out a product like this when we're leading in other industries or other like the brick industry and the stone industry that we knew that wasn't going to perform and be a sustainable product. To be clear, on the accelerated testing, that showed no deterioration or change of color? No. The only issue you'll have with it would be aesthetic-wise, it would be paint. It requires a top layer of paint on it, exterior grade latex paint. You don't need to paint the ends or prime the back of it or anything like that to stop it from moisture from getting into the product. But UV rays are the only thing that can break down that paint. and at that point it's up to the paint manufacturer basically of how long they say a paint will last to UV rays. So if Sherwin-Williams says our paint will last 25 years over UV rays, you can expect that full life cycle because with products that have wood fillers in them, it cycles moisture and water needs somewhere to go so it pushes off the top of the product and causes paint to bubble off or crack off. And because it doesn't cycle any moisture, the UV rays are the only thing that can affect it. Okay, the material itself is impervious to water, correct? Yes. So you're talking about the paint that maybe put on the product? Is that the problem? The reason it needs paint is because it comes pre-primed from the factory, and primers aren't meant to last the UV rays. Got you. After 150 days, it would just get chalky. I understand what you're saying now. Yeah. I do have a technical question. I don't know if you have thought about this or if Jim's thought about this, But reading through the technical preservation briefs, one of the concerns that I would have is that in light of the fact that you're using a material that is impervious to moisture, then the vapor transmission issues are different from what they would be if you were using wood. So I'm just looking at the detail that was submitted of the box gutter, for example, and I'm just imagining a worst-case scenario where the box gutter eventually leaks, which we all know never happens. and water then gets inside the box gutter. And while in the event that the box gutter were made from conventional wood materials, they would be damaged and lost to the moisture, the extended exposure to moisture. but I'm just imagining that if this is made of boral that there's nowhere for the water to go at all other than back into the structure. And so what occurs to me is that perhaps there should be a detail that would allow for moisture to escape from the inside of the box gutter assembly to the exterior so that you don't have that sort of sealed enclosure that you would otherwise have. Yeah, I think that's probably best practice to do it that way. The same way with our siding where we recommend a vapor barrier behind it or a drainable house wrap or furring it out so that there's an air gap in between there for moisture to go somewhere because if moisture gets trapped behind the siding and the house wrap, it'll just get stuck there. For other products that absorb moisture, it'll absorb back into the product, but ours doesn't absorb moisture, so it needs somewhere to go. So same. Some of that decision, I think, might have to do with the larger assembly because if you were going to be using a closed cell spray foam, for example, for the insulation, and that was going to seal the back side of the box gutter, then you may not have that issue. But it seems like it might be wise to drill some small holes in the underside of the soffit at, you know, I don't know, six inches on center or something like that to allow the vapor, whatever vapor or whatever moisture gets inside the box gutter to find its way out other than going back into the building. Right. Because it's got to find somewhere to go. Okay. Any other questions from the board members? Has the staff received the testing documents for this product to review? I don't believe so. I can send. We have ICC reports and stuff available online that I can send you. If you would. Yeah, sure, absolutely. I don't really have a question. I just have a comment. Okay. And I think that when we talked about this, I think it might have been in the last meeting and a meeting before, I thought that the porch should be replaced and built with wood, too. But because it was all being built new, I was okay with the boral in that location. Sure. When it comes to replacing it all over the house, I think wood is a tried and true material. And it has lasted for 100 years on this house with some repair. and I just don't see the need to not continue to repair wood in the case of most of this, most of the work around the soffits and trims and fascia. I think the owner had a really convincing argument when I saw the back and saw how they had really ripped off that back gutter and built that porch, and that became a little bit more of a question mark to me as to how you rebuild that, and I don't know that I have an answer for that. But overall, I'm still going to favor replacing and repairing with wood. I don't know how the rest of the board member feels about that. Okay. Let's bring back Mr. Griggs. And do we have any questions for Mr. Griggs as well? This is some of that softened material. And it's black, so it's not original. This is some of the beadboard in that triangle where I gave you the detail of that. Yeah. And it's termite-ridden, so I guess I can't speak to your desire for wood all around, but I can speak firmly that this whole thing needs to be rebuilt. There's not a lot salvageable on it. What about on the dormer? Well, the rear dormer? No, the front dormer. The front dormer, it's as you saw. The eaves and the fascias at the top of the dormer, they look like they're in pretty good shape. I haven't poked on those, and I'd say they're the farthest away from how this damage has migrated through the building. Right. So if we're talking about the cornice on the front dormer, that's probably one of the places that the original material could be kept. Yeah. Thank you. I just wrote a little concluding sentence. Much of the material to be replaced is not original. The underlying structure is compromised. The shapes are simple and can be replicated and bore almost exactly. The trim is remote and untouchable. Regarding the design principles and guidelines, I believe our circumstances would allow a practical and favorable decision. And if we get some of this, it would take the sting away from rebuilding that porch out of wood. All right. Thank you. Any observations or questions or comments from the audience? I'm amazed that Shakertown has used this product extensively, and it makes me think that the National Trust has reviewed it. I am assuming that they would not have moved forward unless they had gotten approval from – Well, I would assume that too. No, not necessarily. There's really no mechanism unless there's federal money in the renovation. This would be true for any project, not just about Shakertown. or it's participating in historic tax credits, which I don't believe it is. It's a not-for-profit, and I don't think it's doing that. Okay. Good point. So it would be an anomaly if they had had any kind of a review with the feds. But I'm not telling you one way or the other what is that situation, but there would be no reason for them to have had review by either the Frankfurt Heritage Council or the feds in the most literal sense. Now, I'm not suggesting they might not have chosen to reach out, and certainly that's possible, and I'd be interested to learn more if indeed they've had those discussions. I know they've come to this in the last, or at least made it known and talking about it around before they started construction. It's a relatively recent outcome for them to go this direction. They got a large grant from the Lilly Foundation. You may have seen the article in the paper. But back in the winter, I talked to some of their staff about this, and they were just starting to put those first pieces and starting to work with it, and it was a brand-new thing to them. But we did not talk about process-wise how they came to that decision. I'm not privy to that. My concern is that the guideline is pretty explicit about not using composite materials on historic structures when the original material – or when it's possibly replaced with materials of a like kind, which in this case would be wood. My real concern here, and let me finish and then you can argue with me, is this is a slippery slope. If we start approving, and what I will grant you is, let me start over. I am absolutely overwhelmed by the amount of work you have put into this house. and I think that, you know, I understand where you're coming from that you think and arguably should be entitled to have a little bit of leeway given the fact that you have rescued a house that any other person in their right mind would have demolished years ago. And I'm sympathetic to that. At the same time, the guidelines are pretty explicit and are very clear on this matter. this is an issue that probably has to be reviewed by the Historic Preservation Committee in terms of making some exceptions and some specifications as to how this type of material is to be used. We're not that committee, and we're not in a position, I think, where we can substitute our judgment for the judgment of the guidelines. and although I'm very, very sympathetic with you and I think you have made a very good argument, I just can't see my way to voting in favor of your proposal. I'm in disagreement with both of the board members who have expressed their opinion on this. We routinely approve replacement of horizontal siding with cementitious products. I don't see this as being any different from that. The guidelines say that when there are inherent flaws in the original materials, that you can replace them with substitute materials. And I would argue that in light of the history of box gutters, that in fact using wood on box gutters is a really bad idea. and this is a perfect example of a product that solves the box gutter issue once and for all so that you can give an owner the confidence to go ahead and restore their box gutters and know that they won't have to do it in 20 or 30 or 40 years again. To me, this is a remarkable product, and I think that, you know, I understand that we're called on to be as conservative as we possibly can be, but I think that, you know, the use of cementitious siding material, for example, was resisted for years and finally, once people had a level of confidence about the degree to which it's, the stability of the product and the long life of the product, now it's not just generally accepted, but it's actually preferred. So I think this is exactly the same. This is a very parallel situation. And so I think that the precedent of the semantitious siding is an excellent precedent. and so Mr. Dickerson I'd like to the name is Dickinson but that's okay I'm sorry old eyes right understand I and Sarah I think that the idea of replacing with wood is I can understand your argument but the wood today is like the wood of days past and I have certain moral issues with taking those trees out of rainforest in country south of here, or even redwoods out of the Pacific Northwest. And this is a green material. So that is another issue that we haven't really talked about. But I think to replace the wood on my house with the soft woods would be really hard to maintain. And to use these exotic woods is a moral issue, in my opinion. Thank you. I think that's the most compelling reason to look at borrow favorably, because unless you do have both the financial resources and the ability to find woods other than what we usually see trim in now, they won't live as long as say some of the woods in Virginia buildings that when they were used the trees were older and the wood had more resin in it and they lasted longer So I have to – I'm really conflicted about it because I know what's going to happen when we make an exception to a guideline. But I do agree with Graham that – I have one more idea, and that is I was on the Board of Adjustment for 12 years, and there were times when applicants came to us needing to do something or wanting to do something that we thought was good for the big picture. And we worried about setting precedents. But sometimes you can find the special circumstances because that's really all you need not to set a precedent is a special circumstance. And I think this house could be a good one for a special circumstance. I don't know how to do your job, but I know that sometimes that'll get the staff to accelerate the idea of changing the directives in a way that's good for everyone. Okay, articulate what that special circumstance would be. Well, it'd be hard to find a building that's more deteriorated than this one. But it's, I understand your problem. But maybe with Graham's argument, you don't need a special circumstance. It's analogous to Hardy Plank. But we only approve Hardy Plank for addition. This is where I'm confused, Graham. I don't remember our ever approving Hardy Plank for original, as part of the original structure. We approve it, obviously, for additions, but not for the original structure, have we? So can you cite me a street or a house where we've done that? I don't recall. All right, I'm going to do this, and, Mr. Garrett, you may not like my recommendation here. I think we need to do some additional research. I think, first of all, we need to have the test results sent to us to make sure it matches up with the testimony. As a hearing officer, I've had more than one occasion where the testimony of an expert turns out to be somewhat not quite as accurate as the test results may be. The other is, I think the staff needs to research for us these examples of where we have approved composite materials on original structures. The general answer to that, but we'll be glad to research and double-check and triple-check and give a list. Okay. The general answer to that is that this process has not approved Hardy Plank or Cementius Board on anything other than later additions and new construction. That was my thought. And that the historic structures, both their clapboard, well, there's one caveat I have to mention. With an existing historic structure, if it already has, for example, vinyl, which is, of course, no longer allowed, But if it has already lost its wood clapboard and been covered with a contemporary, like a contemporary being back in the earlier decades, aluminum. So in other words, it's had that change of a different material on top. Then there has been able to be process-wise a cementous board considered. And the Board has, because of the change that is reflected in what's the existing condition that is the property, this application I'm hypothetically referring to, the process does allow consideration, and the Board has approved vinyl to cementus board, aluminum to cementus board, asbestos siding to cementus board. But I don't know of one, but we will be glad to diligently search to see if there's been one where it's wood clappered to cementious board. I don't know of one, and we've been thinking, of course, about this a great deal, but we will look through very thoroughly. And then tied to trims, similar thing. Don't know of any that have gone from wood trim to cementious board on the historic structures. As far as new construction, you all are well aware, and I don't have to tell you about that. Also, I think what we need to do, assuming that, you know, I'm making the suggestion, I'm not sure the Board's going to agree with me, I would also like to see a schematic outlining in detail where the borough would actually be installed. We don't have that before us right now. We've had a lot of pointing at this and pointing at that. And to be honest with you, I might be able to see my way clear to voting for this proposal. if I could see exactly where the substitute materials are going to go. So if we could have a plan that would outline that for me, I would appreciate that. I don't think we have that, Duby. This house is a brick home. It's not complicated trim-wise. There's the soffit that goes around it. I was under the impression you wanted to do some of the trim in wood, but do you want to do all the trim in Burrell? Well, this application was to allow Burrell throughout, throughout and then if there were places where it wasn't as good a choice i i would work at the staff level and and resolve it well there's a continuity materials issue as well what is the board i may be off on a wild goose chase what's the board's feeling about this i i agree with you jim i i'd like more information and and in particular i would also request that we learn more about what other historic districts have found and learn more about the procedures that they've gone through to either approve or disapprove Borel, and in particular also what Shakertown, as an example, what their procedure was to make the decision allowing the use on the residents. I'm agreeing with that. If I could see why other people have done it, I would might be more favorable to looking at the product. Well, I'll try to get back on your agenda and work with staff to get this accomplished. All right. Then do I have a motion? The staff will, as. I had one other question. Your soffits, are they like the beadboard underneath the soffits and can Laurel do that or they're just flat? They're just one by. The soffits and the fascia are one by, and there's a piece of crown that's been taken off. Yes, ma'am. Is there any? I can tell from your look you have a question. When you're ready. I'm ready. I would give the floor, I don't have it, but I will give it to Mr. O. Are you ready? You want me to comment? I can see if Graham's going. Yes. The staff will be glad to do what's being discussed in terms of the various research pieces about our own evolution of various specific permits, but also in terms of what they reflect in previous actions, but also about researching the historic other communities, what they're doing with this topic, and what historic districts are doing. And I'll be glad to go meet with Shaker Town again and learn more. I think it would be very interesting. I would mention process-wise in a big-picture sense. This is not specific to your property whatsoever, that if it is something that this board and staff are not altogether or separately want to have considered to be looked at for the big picture of the guidelines, then the process you've referenced, but it would go through the Historic Preservation Commission. And the kind of information we're talking about starting to gather would be also the beginnings for that process to happen, if indeed there's interest in that, at this historic preservation commission. Because procedurally, obviously, it is contrary to the guidelines currently for this synthetic material to be considered, since it is very clear, as has already been referenced, no synthetic materials. So I just don't want to miss that there is, if this is going to be decided and it's. I'm not suggesting that we're going to substitute ourselves as being the preservation committee. Well, I just, for sort of more broadly, not necessarily you as individual board members. I know you understand the process well, but, you know, people are watching the meeting and this is new to them. But I'm hearing from what I'm. hearing from one board member is a recollection of where we have done a prior approval. I would like to have that investigated more fully. We will do so. If for no other reason to either confirm or refute the statement that has been made. The other being, I think there are so many different issues that are tied into this that this may be, for lack of a better word, a test case that might be worth looking at in terms of figuring out a way to come up that so-called special condition that will allow us to move forward so that this can be an example to the Preservation Committee of the need for this kind of an exception to the guidelines. That's what I'm thinking long term. Thank you. Okay. That was way too long-winded. Now, do I have a motion? to postpone to continue this matter until June 7th. Will that work for you? Is that enough time for you all? Probably not, quite frankly. Would you like June 21th? To get that amount of information. And actually, it's June 28th. Our June situation seems to have gotten a little skewed, but we are set for June 7th, but the next one will be June 28th, and that gets us on our regular schedule. I was thinking we had gotten off. Yes, and it doesn't bear the time to explain. But if you board members are available on June 7th, it is where we're headed. Will June 28th be out with you, sir? Well, I don't. I know that you want to get moving on this, but. This is a pretty complex amount of info to gather. As fast as you all can do it. But will we be continuing this case, not ending it right now? No, we're continuing it. Thank you. And what we'll do. And we'll pick up where we left off. The deadline for action is May 15th. And so we will ask you and the Chair to jointly sign a document that extends the deadline. And it would be to probably July 15th or something, just to give, not because we're going to deviate from the June 28th, but just for round numbers. And just think the book you're going to be able to write on this project. I'm sorry? Just think the book that you'll be able to write about this project. Right. I don't have the lifespan. So we'll fill that out. So don't bug out until we get you to sign that, and then we'll get the chair to sign it, and then we can give you a copy tomorrow by electronic. Okay. Do I have a motion to continue this matter to June 28th? So moved. Do I have a second? Second. Any further discussion on the motion? I will not be present at that meeting on June 28th. I'm going to be in Portugal. It'll be more fun. I don't want to put out the July. I don't want to. I don't. I want to have you hear those problem. Well, you'll just have to. When is the July meeting? It's clear. It's going to get up its trip. July 12th. And thus far, as far as we know, you're all available on the 12th. I don't suggest. Did you say July? July. It sounds a long way away, but unfortunately it's not. Mr. Griggs, will you indulge us and agree to a postponement to July 12th? I continue. Continuance, yes. All right. Amending the motion to continue to July 12th. Is that right? That's correct. Okay. Do I have a second? Second. All right. We all will be there, hopefully. All those in favor of the motion say aye. Aye. Opposed, nay. This matter is continued to July 12th. Thank you very much. All right. Turning now to, and I didn't realize we're going to have such a long conversation. Let's go back to, where were we, 326? Yeah. Yeah, 326 South Broadway. I can only hope you enjoyed the conversation. I did learn something. Okay. I didn't realize it was going to take quite so long as it did. That's okay. All right. As I take it, you had some concerns about, no, Graham had some concerns about the details, right? Well, I guess I wonder how Mr. Lee feels about it because, you know, if he doesn't, if he doesn't, if it doesn't matter to him, then maybe I'm wasting my breath. Oh, Lord. What struck me was that the elevator tower and storefront system on the elevator tower, to me, it articulated as a – They're a separate palette from the palette of the stair tower and the clabbered siding, and so I just wonder about inserting the clabbered siding between the storefront material. It seems that it is not consistent with the larger design idea. Well, I guess the idea of the storefront material for the staircase is just to be able to see through as much as we can to the existing building. I meant the stair tower. Yeah, this is not terrible. Oh, no. To make it as opaque, I guess, as possible. Opaic or clear? I'm sorry? Opaic or clear? Clear. Okay. Clear. Not opaque, sorry. We just wanted to make sure that that continuance of the existing building is seen even through the building. I don't have a problem with that. And if you've noticed, we've even taken the storefront of the entrance, and I've even pushed it back even more from the side of the elevator to just get that extra little two feet there of existing. So just to make sure I understand what the staff is recommending in the condition, I'm assuming that wherever the number one is appearing on the elevations, number one being a three-quarter inch thick exterior insulated finish system, that the staff is asking for that to be replaced with? Yes, sir, because if you notice on the elevations, everywhere that is indicated, it's adjacent to the wood. And the way he has the elements stacked going from the board-formed concrete to the shiplap to the ethos at the top, it seemed to make sense to keep that consistent running between the large spaces of the storefront. If you'll notice, we're talking about this area and this area and these locations that are immediately adjacent to wood siding. I guess I don't agree with that. From a design standpoint, I think it's better as drawn, and the reason for that is that there's a vertical expression made by the storefront system, and that change of material accentuates that vertical expression appropriately. and I mean I think it would be stronger if it were you know like a slicker material you know aluminum or something like that but you know a panel but attack tech wall or yeah there's a you know that to me there's an if you if you pull the wood through there it's a totally different idea it's then the then the glazing becomes sort of punctured openings in a larger field, and that's a totally different idea from what this design is against. I would agree with you that a cladding-type material like that would maybe even make more sense than the ephys or the wood. I hadn't thought about that. I would very much welcome that idea as well. I like that. Because that was the intent, was to express the verticality there on the side. I have to kind of bring that through. But even if that was an aluminum material that matched the storefront, I think that would be nice. That would be ideal. Yes. Staff would agree with that. And I agree with that, too. That's exactly what I was thinking when I looked at it. And to allow the Chair to catch up with the conversation, I'm assuming we're changing condition number two, then? Is that correct? Are we going to change the wording of condition number two? Number two. Yeah. Would you like me to take a stab at a... Let me make sure I don't have any comments from the audience. Any comments from the audience regarding this proposal? If not, then the Chair will ask for a motion, and Mr. Paul, if you're willing to take a stab at it. I am willing. Regarding case number 02510326-H at 326 South Broadway, I move to approve the Certificate of Appropriateness pursuant to the following conditions. Am I looking at the right? Go for it. Number one, provide railing details and specifications to the staff prior to the start of your Certificate of Appropriateness. Number two, change the panels between the storefront sections to an aluminum material or a panel material matching the aluminum framing of the storefront systems. Number three, if any changes are made that alter the information submitted, resubmit the changes to staff for review and approval prior to the start of work. And number four, once reviewed by other LFUCG divisions, resubmit the changes to the staff or board for review and approval prior to the start of any work. Okay, do I have a second for the motion? Second. Any further comments or discussion concerning the motion? If not, then the Chair will call the question. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed, nay. The Certificate of Appropriateness is approved, subject to the four conditions. We thank you. You're welcome. It's a very nice project. Thank you. It is. All right. Our final item is the conceptual review at 440 West 3rd Street. Are we ready for a presentation by the staff? Thank you. Thank you. There's nothing left to see. Let me lean on that gas. All she catches up fast. So give me speed. How fast will it go? Can it get me over her quickly? She wrote a 16. And it had brought her memory. Yeah, what I really need is an overroar. And a whole lot of speed. That's what I need. I'm tired of spinning my wheels. I'm tired of spinning my wheels. Thank you. I Don't Need a Shooting Star For a crystal ball to see through Don't need a claim to fame Like some folks always do I got my very own big time star And she shines the whole life through She's a miracle A sight to see Oh, the way she touches me Way down deep in my soul, something's got a hole and it won't let go. If I stumble, if I fall, she's waiting right there to catch me. Oh, she's a miracle, a miracle to me. I don't need any good luck charms Always hanging around Don't need any wishing well To throw my money down Don't need to make the front page news To be the talk of the town I'm telling all the world I've got a heavenly girl Right here on the ground She's a miracle, a sight to see Oh, the way she touches me Way down deep in my soul Something's got a hole and it won't let go If I stumble, if I fall She's waiting right there to catch me. Oh, she's a miracle, a miracle to me. She's everything in the world to me. A beautiful dream come true. Every day I count my blessings. Cause I'm the lucky one she gives her love in two. Oh, she's a miracle, a sight to see Oh, the way she touches me Way down deep in my soul Something's got a hole and it won't let go If I stumble, if I fall She's waiting right there to catch me Oh, she's a miracle, a miracle She's a miracle, a sight to see Oh, the way she touches me Way down deep in my soul Something's got a hold and it won't let go If I stop, if I fall Way down deep in my soul Thank you. Close your eyes, make a wish, and blow out the candlelight. For tonight is just your night. We're gonna celebrate all through the night. Pour the wine, light the fire. Girl, your wish is my command I submit to your demands I will do anything Girl, you need only And I'll make love to you Like you want me to And I'll hold you tight Baby, all through the night I'll make love to you When you want me to And I will not let you Tell me to Girl, relax Let's go slow I ain't got nowhere to go I'm just gon' concentrate on you Girl, are you ready? It's gonna be a long night Throw your clothes On the floor I'm gonna take my clothes off to you I'd be pleased to be with you No one ever you and me No one can do I'll be left to you Like you and me too And I'll hold you tight Baby, all through the night I'll make a love to you When you want me to I will not let go if you tell me to Baby, tonight is your night And I will fill you right Just make a wish on your night Anything that you ask, I will give you The love of God, God, God I'll make love you like you love me too And I'll prove to die for you I'll do the night I'll make love to you when you want me to And I will not let go to you to meet you I'll make love to you like you want me to And I'll hold you tight And you'll be tall through the night I'll make love to you when you want me to And I will not let go to you to meet you Yeah, we need a baby Yeah, we need a baby Oh Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah You think you've lost your love Well, I saw her yesterday It's you she's thinking of And she told me what to say She said she loves you And you know that can't be bad Yeah, she loves you And you know you should be glad She said if you heard her so She almost lost her mind But now she says she knows You're not the hurting guy She said she loves you And you know that can't be bad Yes, she loves you And you know you should be glad She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah With a love like that, you know you should be glad You know it's up to you I think it's only fair Why can't her too soon Apologize to her Because she loves you And you know that can't be bad She loves you And you know you should be glad She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah With a love like that You know you should be glad With a love like that You know you should be glad With a love like that You know you should Be glad Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, yeah Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, yeah Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, yeah Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, yeah Well, not too long ago in 1944 When every mother's son was going on They had to lift their spirits high For Uncle Sam's motherhood and apple pie Instead of spending money that they didn't have In hot spots in the Bronx They went to hear the kind of jazz You're hearing funky honky talks It made you want to jump, shout, shout, knock yourself out Boogie woogie beat is what I'm talking about If I had the hippie-jibies you could dance away To the boogie woogie music the piano man was playing You could jump, shout, shout, knock yourself out Boogie woogie beat is what I'm talking about You could call the switcher oody if your bells go down With the buggy-woogie beat of a piano man who's going to town It had the kind of rhythm that would fill the hall The flinkin' and the plunkin' drove them up the wall And they would dance and drink their gin And when the fuzz, fuzz, fuzz, they join in So everybody partied till the cows came home Cause that's what boogie's for And every night that dump would jump And keep on coming back for more Because that made you wanna jump, jump, shout Knock yourself out A boogie woogie beat is what I'm talking about If you had the heebie-jeebies you could dance away To the boogie woogie music the piano man was playing You could jump, jump, shout Knock yourself out A boogie woogie beat is what I'm talking about You could call the switcheroonie if you fell so down With the boogie woogie beat on my piano man, I'm going to town Ooh, yeah Ooh, yeah Hey man, you wanna jump, jump, shout Ooh, Rakasaki, you wanna jump, jump, shout Slay up the tap into me mouth You wanna jump, jump, shout Fly away, fly away To the boogie-woogie music The piano man was playing You could jump, shout Now I can stay on bounce Boogie-woogie beat is what I'm talking about You could call us with your rooney If you're bambledown To the boogie-woogie beat of a bit Shake your yes, yes, yes The End Move on It's no good to go back in time I'll never find another girl like you For happiness it takes two With fire and eyes A dream won't go true Sarah, Sarah, storms are brewing in your eyes Sarah, Sarah, no time is a good time for the lies Danger in the game when the stakes are high Brandon My heart was branded While my senses stood by I'll never find another girl like you For happy hand is empty too With fire and ice A dream won't come true Sarah Sarah The storms are growing in your eyes Sarah, Sarah No time is a good time Sarah, Sarah The storms are growing in your eyes Sarah, Sarah No time is a good time for goodbyes And Sarah Loved me like the one that's ever loved me before And Sarah Hurt me, no one could ever hurt me more And Sarah Sarah And Sarah The one that loved me before I'll never find another girl like you With fire and ice, a dream won't come true Sarah, Sarah No time is a good time No, Sarah, Sarah Stars are blue in your eyes Sarah, Sarah No time is a good time for good vies Sarah, Sarah Storms are brewing in your eyes Sarah, Sarah Your time isn't the time No Who said it? Why did it all fall apart? Thank you. Driving home this evening Could have sworn we had it all worked out You had this boy believing Way beyond the shadow of a doubt Well, I had it on the street I heard you might have found somebody new Yeah Well who is he baby Who is he and tell me what he means to you Oh yeah Took it all for granted But how was I to know That you'd be letting go Now it cuts like a knife But it feels so right Yeah, catch up with a knife Oh, but it feels so right There's times I've been mistaken There's times I thought I'd been misunderstood Ooh, yeah So wait a minute, darling Can't you see we did the best we could Ooh, we could Wouldn't be the first time Things have gone astray Now you've thrown it all away Now it cuts like a... Coming up on Lexington Now, a new council member, Bike Lexington and Bike Safety. This and more up next on this week's edition of Lexington Now. I'm Sherelle Roberts and welcome to another edition of Lexington Now where we give you an inside look at what's going on around the urban county government. Mayor Jim Gray announced his pick for the vacant 2nd District Council seat at a ceremony at City Hall. Thank you all for being here, family, friends. Today I am pleased to announce my choice for 2nd District Council member, and that is Joe Smith. Joe is... Joe has a great story to tell. He's a Lexington native. He's an active volunteer who's been president of his neighborhood association, former member of the board of trustees of his alma mater, Lexington Catholic, member of the Jaycees and Big Brother, Big Sister. And he served in public service. He has offered himself in public service. He's been a member of the Planning Commission, Board of Adjustments, and he served on the Lyric Task Force Committee. He's worked as a realtor in Lexington for 30 years, and many, many folks in the community have told me how much he's meant to them. Council Member James Brown, for example, describes Joe as his mentor. Joe is well prepared to be a council member. He's been active in his neighborhood in public service. Lexington neighbor, a Lexington native who cares about his hometown. He brings energy and enthusiasm and spirit and a deep knowledge of Lexington, and especially the 2nd District today. He has a deep commitment to our city and to making it the best it can be, And that's what being a council member is all about. It is now my pleasure to introduce to you all Joe Smith. Thank you. It truly is an honor to be here today. First of all, I'd like to thank my family. Sharon, without her support, obviously I would not be here My son Dee, my daughter-in-law Deanne are in the audience there As Mary Gray mentioned, I'm a Lexingtonian Lived here all my life Great place to live Great place to raise a family, friends, neighbors It's wonderful to be in this city Community service I've done it all my life, basically starting back in high school with my parents. I was always taught to give back to your community, give back to your neighbors. And I just followed suit every step of the way. Serving on the Board of Adjustment and the Planning Commission gave me a different insight to this community, particularly how hard this staff works to keep Lexington growing and as beautiful as it is. I want to thank Mayor Gray. I want to thank my fellow council members. And first of all, once I get started, my number one goal is to reach out to the people of a second district. I thank you all very much. Do you solemnly swear that you will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of this Commonwealth and be faithful and true to the Commonwealth of Kentucky so long as you continue a citizen thereof, and that you will faithfully execute to the best of your ability the office of council member of the Lexington Fayette Urban County Government, according to law? And do you further solemnly swear that since the adoption of the present Constitution, that you, being a citizen of this state, have not fought a duel with deadly weapons within this state, nor out of it, nor have you absent or accepted a challenge to fight a duel with deadly weapons, nor have you acted as second in carrying a challenge, nor aided or assisted any person thus offending, so help you God. Please respond, I do. I do. Congratulations. Thank you. For more information about the new council member, log on to the city's website. It's Lexingtonky.gov. A family favorite is right around the corner. I'm talking about Bike Lexington's Family Fun Ride. Here's more about how you and your family can get involved. Hello, my name's Kofraza. I'm an event coordinator with the Downtown Lexington Corporation. So Bike Lexington is going to be held this year on Saturday, June 3rd. This year Bike Lexington is once again presented by Pedal Power. It's going to happen right here at Robert F. Stevens Courthouse. Most activities happen right here behind us on the corner of Short and Limestone. We'll kind of start. It's a nice police escorted ride through downtown Lexington. We have a lot of awesome activities planned for that morning. Starting at 8 a.m., we have the kids rodeo. And then at 9, we'll have the Bike Lexington slow cycle. The slow cycle will be at 9 a.m. where the last person to finish wins. And then we'll have the ride start promptly at 10 a.m. For more information on Bike Lexington presented by Pedal Power, visit our website at downtownlex.com and also get on our Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Thank you. Thank you. And as the spring weather warms up, more and more cyclists are going to be taking to the road. But before you hit the streets, there are a few things you need to know to stay safe. I'm a man. Lexington or anywhere for that matter there are special traffic considerations cyclists must adhere to. My name is Howard Florence. I'm a police officer downtown in Lexington. I've been with the department for 22 years. When you're on a bike downtown we do encourage that you use the streets. The bicycle lanes are well marked. The streets are well paved. There's some hazards associated with that as would be anywhere you're on the street. Watch for parked cars pulling out. Watch for people exiting their cars. Watch for the doors opening up. kind of thing. Watch for pedestrians. They may step out between cars in your path. Make sure you signal your intentions to the motorist if you're changing lanes or making turns. And one of the most important things is to make sure that you stop for the red lights. Especially downtown, the cars are going to trip the lights. You're not going to have to wait very long. It's a safety issue and it is the state law that as a cyclist on the road, you're bound by the same laws that govern vehicles, so stopping for the red lights is highly encouraged. When you're riding in the street downtown, always make sure that you're going with traffic. You don't want to ride against traffic and stay to the right as much as you can. If you find yourself riding on the sidewalk, obviously that creates a whole other set of hazards for you and for pedestrians. Pedestrians always have the right of way, so if you find yourself on the sidewalk, some things to look out for. Don't get too close to the buildings. People could be stepping out or opening a door on you. And just the simple fact that pedestrians move so much slower than anybody that would be on a bicycle, you're always going to catch up to them. So if you're catching up to a pedestrian walking, their back's to you, they're not going to know you're there. So if you have a bell on your bike, that one just give that a little friendly ring or just give a kind greeting just so that they know that you're there. And then make sure you still give them enough space because when they react to you, it still may startle them and you may not know how they're going to react. They may step into your path. So I just want to emphasize pedestrians, they always have the right of way. And also watch for cars that are maybe pulling in and out of the parking garages. They are not really expecting a bicycle to be coming down maybe because like I said, you're going to be moving a lot faster than a pedestrian would be. So just make sure you're watching. Watch out for that. Bikelexington.com is a very good resource. It has links to the state laws for bicycling as well as the city ordinances. For more information about how to stay safe on the road no matter what you're driving or riding, log on to the city's website. It's LexingtonKY.gov. And coming up after the break, it's time to get those spring cleaning projects done. Don't be sad. We've got some tips for you. We'll be right back. Music. Give a little a. Hello, I'm Detective Mark Thomas with the Lexington Police Department. You may also know me from Bluegrass Crime Stoppers. I'm here to talk to you a little bit today about a new texting system that we have available through any smartphone. In the body of your message, you can text LexPD plus your tip to crimes. When you're submitting anonymous information, we ask that you include several things that would help us conduct the investigations more thoroughly, such as a person's name, their home address, possible license plate numbers, any other people involved, or why you think that they're conducting the type of activity that you believe that they are. All of those things, no matter how small you believe they could be, are relevant to the investigation. So please include those. So remember, you can send your anonymous tip information either through text, you can call the Bluegrass Crime Stoppers Anonymous tip line at 859-253-2020, or you can go online to bluegrasscrimestoppers.com. Thank you. Cigarette butts are the number one most littered item in Lexington. Filters in cigarettes are not biodegradable like an apple core. They can take up to 25 years to decompose. Please put your butts where they belong. Don't trash the bluegrass. Welcome back to the show. A wise man once said there are two types of people on this earth, those who love spring cleaning and those who hate it. No matter what category you fall in, Lauren Monahan has some tips for you to get the job done right. Yes, there are lots of tips that we can discuss that can help with those spring cleaning projects, home improvement projects, painting projects, anything under the sun that a lot of residents are doing during this time of year as the weather continues to get warmer. Paint is something that we see frequently. If you no longer need paint, we have a few suggestions. We have a recycling program that was started back in 2009 with Habitat for Humanity over at their Restore on Southland Drive. They actually accept latex paint in their recycling program. They take that paint, they mix it with different colors. They've actually perfected a few different really neat colors with the recycled paint that they receive. And so you can actually purchase that paint as well. So you can not only recycle your paint, but you can purchase recycled paint over there at the ReStore. That's for paint that isn't old, dried up. And so if you have paint that you are ready to get rid of, we just ask that you take the lid off that paint can. You mix it with paint hardener, kitty litter, sawdust. Any of those items will help harden your paint. Stir it up. Set the lid back on there. You can set it at the curb for our crews to take care of when they come by on your regular service day. You can also go ahead and put that bag inside your Herbie container, and that's also a safe way, of course, after it's been hardened. A lot of you, while you're cleaning out your garages or other parts of your homes this spring season, may have hazardous chemicals to get rid of. We ask that you hold on to those chemicals until our next hazardous waste collection event, which allows for residents to drop off any hazardous chemicals, old oil, oil-based paint, pesticides, fertilizers, furniture, varnish or finish, items such as this that you don't want to put in your Herbie since they are hazardous. so that we ask that you hold on to those until our next hazardous take back event occurs. You can also look on the label. Sometimes labels on these hazardous chemicals contain information on safe disposal methods or they have a phone number that you can call for more information or even a website. That's something if you'd like to just go ahead and maybe try to dispose of that in a safe way before our next hazardous collection, you can always look at the back label on some of those items. We've got a couple different ways that you can dispose of items that you may not need any longer. One such item is appliances. We also refer to those as white goods. That's anything from a stove to a refrigerator or freezer, washers and dryers. These items can be serviced by the city if you receive city trash collection. All it requires is a call to Lexcall at 311 or 425-2255 and we will send a special truck different from the regular trucks that service your neighborhood every single week. And so that's why all you have to do is call Lexcall. They will send a truck out to pick up that appliance. Residents of Lexington can also take appliances to environmental recycling on Winchester Road and you can visit our website for more information on that drop-off service. As residents get outside more in the spring and summer seasons and begin pruning your lawns and your gardens, the Division of Waste Management offers yard waste pickup. We pick up items such as leaves, grass clippings, tree branches. So we recommend if you don't have a container, please call Lex Call and request one. This is the best way to have your yard waste picked up from your location. We have yard waste routes that run through the neighborhood every single week on your regular collection day. Construction and demolition material is not serviced by the Division of Waste Management at the curb. If you have this material and you have a contractor doing that work for you, consult with them. They may have a way to dispose of that for you. We also accept that material at our Fayette County Transfer Station located at 1505 Old Frankfort Pike. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to go to our website. We have lots of information on there. You can also call LexCall at 311. Our website is www.lexingtonky.gov slash waste management. And spring is not only a great time to get the inside of your house taken care of, it's a great time to get your yard ready for the growing season ahead. John Saylor gives us some tips on taking care of our yards. Too much mulch is a bad thing. When we see trees that are mulched like a volcano, like the tree is about to be shot out of the mulch, that is not a good thing for the tree. Well, that's a comical way to say not to over mulch, but there's a real method to this mulch madness. When we have so much mulch around the tree, especially at the base of the tree, We have rodents that can overwinter in that mulch and basically chew at the bark of the tree. You want mulch to be two, no greater than four inches, and you want it to break down. You want that at the end of the season to have to add more mulch. So what's the right way to do it? If you do have the mountain of volcano mulch ring on your tree, then you can just pull that mulch off. It's a real simple fix. You can just take it, just extend that mulch ring and pull the mulch away from the base of the tree. So they're just going to show you how to make that. And even up against the trunk of the tree, you just want a light dusting. Follow these tips for healthy, happy trees this spring. In our street tree ordinance, we say that street trees need to be 7 feet cleared over the sidewalk and 12 over the street. But not everybody follows the rules, making it tough to walk, run, drive, and see in neighborhoods. And breaking the rules isn't just a nuisance. It can also mean a fine for lawbreakers. Just encourage everyone to take a look at their trees and kind of think about in the future what branches are going to be impacting the right-of-way on the street side and then also on the sidewalk. And if you don't know how to prune, John Saylor has some tips for you. You never want to just cut and leave a stub. You want to take it back to a lateral branch and typically you want to take it back to something that's a third in size of what you're removing. And then you always want to prune out just the dead wood. A dead branch is just, it can be an open door for wound or disease to get into the trees. So I've got some dead pieces right there. actually I'm going to take this on back to the lateral above and then I'm going to take some of this finer dead out of the interior of the tree that's just basically dead and doing nothing for us. And I'm taking it, notice I'm taking everything back to a branch. I'm not stubbing it.