# Urban-County Arts Review Board - May 17, 2017 > Auto-transcribed civic record · May 17, 2017 - **Permalink**: https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/meeting/4280 - **Source video**: https://lfucg.granicus.com/player/clip/4280?view_id=14&redirect=true - **Date**: 2017-05-17 - **Last revised**: May 17, 2017 - **Length**: 6,250 words > ⚠️ **Auto-generated content.** Audio from the official Granicus video was auto-transcribed with OpenAI's open-source Whisper large-v3-turbo model, run locally by The Lexington Times. Structured facts were extracted with GPT-4o; the narrative summary was written by Anthropic Claude. Verbatim wording may contain errors. See [methodology](https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/about/methodology) or [report a correction](mailto:editor@lexingtonky.news). --- ## Meeting Overview The Urban-County Arts Review Board convened on June 21, 2017, at 3:06 PM in the Council Chambers at 200 East Main Street, Lexington, Kentucky 40507, with Georgia Henkel presiding as the meeting officer. The board addressed two informational agenda items during the session: an update on the Lexington Art Infusion project and a presentation regarding the York Street Water Tank Project. The meeting included two recorded motions and votes, along with one public comment from a community member. Both agenda items were presented for informational purposes, providing the board with updates on ongoing arts-related initiatives in the community. ## Attendance The following members were present at the meeting on May 17, 2017: • Georgia Henkel • Lori Houlihan • Nan Plummer • Mike McKay • Ed Mackey • Tony Barrett • Stacey Chinn All members were in attendance with no absences or late arrivals recorded. ## Votes and Decisions The meeting included two unanimous votes on separate agenda items. **Approval of March 29, 2017 Special Meeting Summary** Nan Plummer made a motion to approve the March 29, 2017 Special Meeting Summary, which was seconded by Tony Barrett. The motion passed unanimously with no opposition or abstentions recorded. **Approval of Conceptual Design of the Artworks at the Carver School Signage** Nan Plummer made a motion to approve the conceptual design of the artworks at the Carver School signage, which was seconded by Lori Houlihan. This motion also passed unanimously with no recorded opposition or abstentions. Both votes were conducted as voice votes rather than formal roll call votes, with no individual member votes recorded in the meeting documentation. No conditions or amendments were attached to either motion. ## Public Comment The public comment period featured one speaker who addressed the board during the meeting. **Nathan** spoke at approximately [timestamp: 00:30] to provide an update on the Lexington Art Infusion Project. Nathan explained that this initiative involves placing artworks in public service buildings throughout Lexington, bringing art into spaces where community members regularly conduct business and access services. No other members of the public addressed the board during the designated public comment period. ## Contested Items The meeting included one procedural dispute regarding engineering requirements for temporary art installations. **Engineering Stamps for Sculptures** A procedural dispute arose concerning the necessity of engineering stamps for temporary sculpture installations. The disagreement centered on confusion about when engineering certification would be required for artistic installations within the jurisdiction. The board addressed this confusion by providing clarification on the specific requirements. They determined that engineering stamps would be necessary for any sculpture installations that are intended to remain in place for one year or more. This ruling established a clear threshold that distinguishes between truly temporary installations and those that, while not permanent, require the same engineering oversight as longer-term structures. The clarification resolved the procedural uncertainty and established a definitive standard for future art installation projects. This decision provides clear guidance for artists, project sponsors, and city staff when evaluating the engineering requirements for temporary sculptural works. ## Lexington Art Infusion Update [timestamp: 00:30] Nathan provided an update on the Lexington Art Infusion Project during the meeting. The project focuses on placing artworks in public service buildings throughout the community, with funding support from the Boston Foundation. The presentation was informational in nature, with Nathan serving as the primary speaker to brief attendees on the current status and progress of the art infusion initiative. The project represents an effort to integrate visual arts into municipal and public service facilities, enhancing the aesthetic environment for both employees and community members who utilize these buildings. The Boston Foundation's involvement as a funding source indicates external support for the community's arts integration efforts. This type of public art initiative typically aims to make art more accessible to residents while improving the visual appeal of government and service buildings. No specific concerns or debates were noted during this agenda item, suggesting the update was well-received by meeting participants. The outcome was purely informational, allowing attendees to stay current on the project's development and implementation timeline. ## York Street Water Tank Project [timestamp: 45:00] The meeting included a discussion on the York Street Water Tank Project, a public mural initiative funded by the Gimble Foundation. The project involves community input from local leaders as part of its development process. Key speakers for this agenda item included Heather Hyden and Stephanie Harris, who provided information about the project's current status and community involvement aspects. The discussion was informational in nature, with no formal action taken during this portion of the meeting. The project represents a collaboration between the Gimble Foundation's funding support and community leadership input to create public art on the York Street water tank facility. --- ## Decisions - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Approval of March 29, 2017 Special Meeting Summary - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Approval of Conceptual Design of the Artworks at the Carver School signage --- ## Full transcript Thank you. And I need you more than want you. And I want you for all time. And the Wichita line man. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, you're good. Thank you. I don't know if we could, but maybe could we do the for information only pieces or do we have to, since it's a special meeting, do we have to go in order? I was just... Do you know if the government would have to stick to the agenda? If you wanted to, the boss is telling me we could do, have Nathan do his FYI's first while we're waiting on a quorum, I mean, if that would help, because I know Tony's got to go and so, if that would help. No. Yeah. Yeah. So, we can go up. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, man. That's fine. Yeah. I'm looking at a client strike. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Georgia, will you go ahead and just publicly say that we are going to do these for only because we don't have a prompt first and just recognize we're changing the agenda. But I'm not calling the meeting to order. We're just, okay. The order of the agenda, yeah, just announce we're changing it. Okay, so we're changing the order of the agenda. The meeting is coming to order, though, Wednesday, June 21st at 3.06. This is a special meeting, and we're going to begin from the bottom up, changing the order and Nathan's going to share his FYI. Okay. Well, thank you so much for having us here today. I'm here to present an update on the Lexington Art Infusion Project. This is a project about placing artworks in public service buildings throughout Lexington. And we did receive some funds from the Boston Foundation, the Face Lover Fund, to help coordinate this effort. And so we're focusing on three centers If you flip to the next slide. Here you go. Oh, you have a clicker. Perfect. Thank you. Okay, so three centers that we worked with Chris Ford to help identify the Commissioner of Social Services. Some of the centers that really needed some help with aesthetics. The Dunbar Community Center has actually been underway for a couple of years now that just culminated and finished this spring. But we were including it as part of this project to not only look at the outside of the building, but We're going to be placing, we'll do a site specific commission for either the exterior or the entryway of each of these buildings. And then place approximately 20 works, donated works throughout the interior of the buildings. So this model is coming out of the Boston area about encouraging artists to donate artworks that will be placed in these buildings that serve our populations that need the most. So many of these buildings, they have to put all of their efforts into the human service programs that they have. And so the buildings end up needing some help with aesthetics. As a way to say thank you to the artists, we are providing a 24 by 24 inch canvas that they can utilize. They can donate existing work as well. And these are for the 20 pieces that will go in the interior of the spaces. The works are going to be exhibited at ArtsPlace. We'll bring the directors in from the staff from each of the centers to help select the works for their space. And then we'll have a dedication and artist appreciation event at the centers. The artists that participate will also get free admission to a series of professional development workshops. We already had the one on social media and marketing for artists. And then we're going to have a framing workshop, lighting and photographing your artwork. It will be led by Mary Resney, and then we'll have a session on Ask a CPA about taxes and copyright law with one of our lawyer board members. So that's just kind of saying thank you to the artists that helped contribute work to this program. The Family Care Center has already received one fairly large donated piece. This was by Ann Kendall. It's a ten foot by six foot large story book. It can open and close and there's pages that turn. The kids have already responded very well to that piece. It's in their young childhood daycare center. The back is plywood. The pages are vinyl, and they're pretty hardy. It's been tap conned into the concrete wall, and so one side is firmly affixed to the wall. The other face can actually open and close. And we had facilities help us look at that installation, and they felt good about that. But this is where I was asking about how we're defining public art. If it is just a creative expression in a publicly accessible space, then whether that leads into interior work or if it's exterior only, I think some clarification there will let us know of projects that if we should be asking or putting in an application formally for an interior mural or potentially just mounting a piece on a wall. So Damon Farmer, we did do an open call for artists for the entryway of the Family Care Center. And this will be that site specific commissioned piece. And Damon Farmer has been selected by the center staff to create that work. It should be kind of a fanciful, playful work that will transform the entryway of the building. So we'll bring more information about that later. The Dunbar murals, which were just dedicated and you guys already approved those, I was just kind of giving a follow up on how that project went. Kind of a recap, we took our Lexington Youth Arts Council, did an oral histories component of the project, connected with the 50 year reunion of the class of 1966. They did oral interviews with the alumni, gathered those stories, And then the youth actually helped select the artists. We did an open call for artists and Christine Kuhn was selected for that project. The Youth Arts Council, the Dunbar History Club, and some of the youth from the Family Care Center came and helped paint these murals. Visualizing the imagery, Yvonne Giles helped compile, but it did reference the memories from the class of 66. So it was a nice kind of multi-generational project. And those were just dedicated a couple weeks ago. We had a nice community event out there. Okay, and then one other one that you've already approved is the Henry Clay murals. Those are in process, they're actually being completed in Louisville at LVA's, Louisville Visual Arts Facilities and Casey McKinney, who is from Lexington but is now in Louisville, is currently working on those. Those will be completed by the end of June, so we're looking at an installation pretty quick. And then this is just another FYI, it's a permanent mural but on a private wall. The Man of War mural was just completed. We're planning a dedication event for June 29th at 4 PM. So that'll kind of tie into the Thursday Night Live activities down there. Okay, and then finally, one last thing. This will be an upcoming project that we will do a formal application for through UCARB. Unlearned Fear and Hate, Kirk Godian, Kermana Todorova's project. LexArts was awarded a $10,000 artworks grant from the NEA to realize this project. So we'll be looking to install a 20 foot permanent sculpture. The location is still a little up in the air, so we've suggested Arts Place, but we're still looking in the community to see the most appropriate location. So that's exciting news and congratulations, Kurt. So you'll see an application coming after we pin down exactly where we're going to be installing it. 20 feet. 20 feet, yeah. So it's a pretty big piece, yeah, and should be visible from quite a ways away. Very good. Okay, any questions? You know, it's really up to the artist team and LexArts to try to navigate. We've got some ideas of some taller buildings than Arts Place is. As 20 foot would be, you know, Arts Place is four stories, so it's basically 40 feet tall, maybe a little taller than that. And so it would take up a significant amount of the wall, which would be fine. But I think with all the windows on ArtsPlace, it's kind of a busy surface that maybe a cleaner surface might help accent the artwork a little better. Okay, thank you so much. Any other questions? Yeah. Yes. No, we've, and so the storybook was one of the ones that was donated already. And it's a pretty big piece. It's about six feet tall and ten feet wide when the book is opened. So we are willing to take any sized work to an extent. I mean, as long as we can take it in easily. This piece, because it was so large, we took it right from where it was straight to the facility and installed it. what we're doing with the rest of the piece. And we've gathered about 40 works so far. My goal is 60 this year. And so those works are, a lot of them are coming in on the two foot by two foot canvases, which is going to help us in the framing process. We're going to do this framing workshop and actually build frames for these things, but it'll be an educational piece for the artist to learn how to make frames. So, yeah, we will take in any existing artwork or they can come pick up a canvas and they can make it on the canvas. We're not directing anything to do with the subject matter, but we do have available the missions of these spaces so that the artist can understand where the placement is going to be and so maybe make something that would fall in line with that service. We're basically accepting any artwork that artists would like to contribute. Thank you. It's out of the Face Lover Fund at the Boston Foundation. It's a program called the Art Connection. And they provided a grant to LexArts to administer this program. And we are paying some of the artist commissions out of that grant and the workshop leaders will be paid out of those funds as well. Okay, thank you. Okay. Okay. Georgia, can you have everybody press their mic button when they speak so that we can get it recorded? Thank you. Hi. Hey Stephanie, if you'll just, I mean we've all read this and I have a question. The Northside Cultural District Program, this four page, two, four, five page text, was this for the Knight Foundation grant or what was this, the purpose of it? I'll let Heather speak to that, she's the director of- Yeah, hi. Yeah. Okay. Hi, I'm the new director of community and cultural initiatives. I sort of took on Richard Young's role in January. That document is more of like just part of our strategic planning. So we have the North Limestone Cultural Plan that just was released in January. And you can get access to it online at NorthLimestoneCulturalPlan.org, which it has recommendations that were developed from our broad neighborhood engagement around public art in the North Limestone area. So, but this York Street water tank is really a project that was funded through our work that we're doing overall on York Street. So we have the artist residence homes that we've built there and then we also have the park on York Street that's around the water tank. And so the water tank is like the public art feature of the overall park. And so that was funded through the Gimbel Foundation, and we got that grant, I believe, in 2015. And so- I remember that. This is our, we have come close on the deadline on it and are glad that we got to partner with LAL and our amazing neighbors to make this possible. So it looks like there was a contract. Yeah. between you and between LAO with Lennon being, Lennon Mikowski being identified as the artist and today it's the 21st. So on the 15th he was supposed to submit his design. And so if you look in the packet that I included, there's an artist sketch illustrating the integration of those portals. He's currently overseas, so he sent me that over with his phone. He's been working on the project in his sketchbook and he'll be getting back tomorrow. So we're going to sit down and get a final drawing. Well, since this is on private property, we're not even doing a conceptual review. It's just a matter of you all sharing all the good things you're doing. Oh, great. Okay, well, the thing that I was confused about is that I was told by the, I got a letter from the NEA that I pulled up that said that it had to be reviewed by the historic preservation or whatever. So I guess having you all take a look at it is helping us get that approval from the historic preservation. Because I have to get it from historic council at the city level and the state level, since it's a historic district. Okay, I didn't realize that York Street was. That's what I got from the NEA. Yeah, we contacted Lori Houlihan about this quite a few weeks ago and wanted to make sure that we were following the right protocol right so that she could get her final approval and Lori did say that coming in front of you on talking about it was kind of the first step in that process right I'm going to defer to to Jennifer on this and right historic preservation i'm not certain unless that's a historic dipnage in h1 i don't know why that would need approval there but i'll give you her contact so you can get with her yeah um and we'll get that figured out yeah i from my understanding it was because the water tank is so visible in that area and that that was the reason why it had to have yeah um also too um you know we were it was great because we were pulled in a little late to the project but the thing that I just kind of want to highlight while we have the opportunity is just how collaborative this project has been from the very beginning. I mean, even in its early stages, No Lie CDC reached out and worked with community leaders to make sure that the content of this portal design was really coming from the neighborhood. And so all of this content that relates to historical figures, to people from the community who've gone on to be professional athletes, church leaders. People who have really helped fortify and build that neighborhood are being represented in this really wonderful design. And then to be able to take that concept directly from a community member and pair them with an artist who can then work that in and integrate those themes into a large mural. I just think it's really a beautiful partnership and LAL is really delighted to be participating. Yeah, it's been so great. Okay. You should all come to our opening whenever we get it finished. We would love for you to be there. Does anyone have any questions or comments about this? Do you know where this is? Everyone on New York Street? Nope. No. I know I've had conversations with Griffin Van Meter about possibilities for that space. And at one point he talked about doing a chalkboard, a lower level, you know, just having opportunities for kids to make their own art. I mean, this was early in the process. But I think it's just a wonderful idea. and linen because the studio is right there makes complete sense too. Thank you. Yeah so you're Jennifer's going to get make sure you're directed to the right yeah. Tony has a comment. Well if it helps your all's NEA application or processing I mean I think we're fine saying that you presented it to us and and we determined that no action was necessary on our part. Right I think that's I think that would be wonderful. Or we could do the, you know, we could do the equivalent of a conceptual approval. We can't do anything. We can't vote on anything until one more person shows up. Nathan texting me. Yeah. But that's a good point, Tony, is that you can at least say that you've done this and gone through that process. this, but getting, if your information was about it being historic approval, we're not, that's not what we're doing. We're just kind of assessing the appropriateness and safety of public art on public grounds. Fantastic. Yeah. Okay. Which is really relevant to the other proposal. Yes. And, yeah, and I don't want to waste anyone's time trying to even go through that information unless we have a quorum. Any other anybody else have public heart information they want to share? Does anybody else like to talk? Sure. So Andrew Light, the installation has got a Murphy garden loan. Would you like to come up here because it's important that we record. Everyone wants to hear about the Isaac Murphy project that finally, It finally landed where it's supposed to land. Yes. Okay, so the last time I was before the committee, we were presenting the engineering drawings. Mm-hm. And the project has since been executed and installed. The artists, the Bochecks, were in town for the installation. We were able to build and execute the project using as many local contractors as I could. We built it at my studio and then I brought into University of Kentucky sculpture alumni to help assist with the program. Helped teach a little trade craft for them as well. And it was awesome. Councilman Brown was there. And he had, it was wonderful, and I believe Vice Mayor Kay was there as well for the opening. We had a fantastic turnout, large community's visible support at the dedication. It was very interesting to hear also the feedback from people like Jim Embry, who had been working on this project for in excess of a decade. Right. And so it was really fantastic just to be a part of that personally, but also to report to you guys that it went up smoothly. It will be a permanent addition to the east end of Lexington. Yeah, thank you. I know I've been, I remember over a decade ago, My students at SARE got a stipend for doing a Day of the Dead altar, maybe half $100. And we donated it to the Isaac Murphy Garden, and that was well over a decade ago. Right. And then, from what I understand, they're working towards the Levon Williams carved piece that will then be translated into cast metal for a permanent project and then some other things. And then Mr. Embry has also expressed an interest in having those concrete, the child art tiles and getting some columns made to have those as a more, a more appropriate vertical installation to be present on the site. I think that's going to be, at the moment, I think that's still a conversation. Right. But yeah, do you guys have any questions about? As soon as those trees grow up there, it's going to be a really nice- Well, I think it'll be fine. They just need to keep getting watered. Yeah. Yeah, but thank you for all your work on that. Thank you guys, it was great. A long time coming. I have a really nice recipe for pot roast. Wait. We're trying to kill some time until we get a quorum. Well, the reason we do have a board member that, Stacey Chen, who actually was at an appointment, is trying to get here. And then we have one that needs to leave soon. So this is like this precious 10-minute soft time of hope. So tomatoes are in season right now. It's fantastic. I can't send in for Nan, can I? No, I wish you could. I feel like you're part of our board anyway. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, I'm sorry about that. Or do we need to wait until – where's the line at what – Yeah, I think anything that has to be voted on, we cannot even be a part of the conversation until everyone's here. Anybody want to have a push-up race? Yeah. So I don't know what the time limit is for waiting for a quorum. I don't know either. I'm sorry. And the lawyer had to run them there, so I'm sorry. Who is the best person on the board that I can send a copy of in our limestone cultural plan to? I feel like that would be something really... Yeah, so this is not it. This is not the... Okay. Now this is like 150. Oh, 100. It's our manifest. Wow. If you send it to Jennifer, she can actually put it in a readable form for us. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, that's great. There are, for what it's worth, I did read the whole thing, and there are some typos in there that you might want to check on. It's almost like autocorrect got into your computer and took over. I can't speak to any of them. I came on and they gave that to me that this is your job. Welcome to Lexington and to this job. Those are big shoes to fill with Richard. So Jennifer, I'll take your lead on how long we wait for this. I really don't. In the event that we have to reconvene, what's the council's earliest? Because we're under a time crunch on our end. I know. And I guess I did have some questions, too, about each of those needing approval, instead of just the blanket approval for the concept. So that's an issue that I understand there's a time crunch. Our next regularly scheduled meeting is August 16th, and I worry in the summer with special meetings, not that we can't have it make it happen, but I can always have someone sit in. For me, it's just the board. I'm not sure I'd have to pull everybody to get a form. So our voting date is the 28th. We're going to begin installations on the 22nd of July. Yeah. The display is only for the last week. Okay, if you don't mind waiting, we don't mind waiting. I think we've all kind of allotted an hour of our time. Tony has to leave at 4, which will further set the whole. Okay. Well, Stacy's going to be mortified when she walks in. Everybody starts. Where you draw the line and what's permanent and what's temporary. A year. Is it one year? Is it anything over a year? Is it just beneath the bottom line? Right. It's one year. Finding loopholes. So we could very easily just... Hasn't... This was an idea many years ago because those pedestals, I mean, the concrete... The pedestals that exist are... We're actually a secure donation of the Bristol River. We're going to need 10 brand new pads. But aren't there pads out there already? There are some. Most of them are insufficient for the work. Yeah. But there will be kept on the property now. It's where the project uses in the future. So if they're... They don't spoil. So some of them are going to be repurposed for our jewelry. We've secured a donation of temporary loan piece to our work. It's going to be signed with the Forty Arts. So some of them will be to create a temporary pencil to get that piece up in the air a little bit. For this by purposes in the court. So most of them will remain off-site. They're in the re-located. So the pencils will be three halves of the paper? Yes. are you using like easy lifts and more well no we're going to do four point uh a type of anchor called drop it that basically is like installing threads and we'll use four points and then a lifting item rigged so we can hang it flat because we're then going to have to uh cut a little bit and turn out the level and that way we just bring these equipment in and thread these eyes and take them up move them that's needed uh because parts department um had a lot of issues with uh long term strategic planning site as well as permanent installations potentially being a hindrance concept Thank you. Because they just keep getting bigger and bigger. I miss that sense. No. Oh, I guess it is the same. Yeah. I gave up this became my own because of that same thing Thank you. I think we should tell them that their model that they're proposing doesn't fit within our time. I don't know how to deal with that. I mean, I can just tell them, but I don't know. Thank you. Thank you. . So Nan and Lori aren't going to be here. And it looks like, unless Stacy pops in in the next few minutes, then we're going to have to reschedule. And what will happen is Jennifer will send out sometimes and as soon as possible. I do have a couple of concerns, though, that I can share. That's what I was asking if I can go ahead and get this far. Because it seems like this should have come before us a long time ago. Because it's, as you know, you've come before us a few times, Andy. And we need an engineering stamp for each of these sculptures. And we need to know all the details for each of them, not just the model of this sculpture, the sculptural installation. We were on the docket some time ago. Sorry. We were holding the date on our calendar for your last meeting, and it ended up that the meeting happened two days before, and we never got notification. So we were. The meeting happened two days before what? Before the date that we were holding. We had contacted, I don't know if it was you, Jennifer, asking, or maybe I was working through Michelle at that point at Parks. She shared with me what the date was supposed to be for the last meeting. We held it on our calendar. I checked in with her and she said, no, they met Monday and we were holding that Wednesday. So it was just. Yeah, I don't ever remember me. I recall it, we missed it by a couple days and I only found out that you guys had already met because I checked in with Michelle at Parks. I haven't had it, obviously the Art League hasn't really presented to you all before, so my apologies for not knowing exactly who to contact directly. Well, just to be consistent with the way we review sculpture, public sculpture, each one of these needs to be individually evaluated with an engineering staff. I'm not sure where that miscommunication came because we only meet on Wednesdays. Okay. And so, and we have had several. On Wednesdays, a Wednesday was our last meeting. Yeah. Was that the time? So I was given June 15th, and we held it on our calendar. I don't. Yeah, that's a Thursday. I have no idea. I don't know what happened. We would have not met on that day, but we did meet on the 20th. At this point. Yeah, and also I'm unsure about how many. number how many are there 12 or 10 because i see two different numbers yeah the original application we were hoping to get 12 sculptures cited in the initial year we found though with fundraising we get to we got to a point where 10 would be more reasonable so the original materials kind of state the highest goals that we have for the program but then the budget that i included it does show how many sculptures we'll be citing and how many sculptures were selected so there's 10 10 images Correct. Right. We also did get an additional $5,000 contribution that isn't shown on this report because it just happened yesterday. So we're actually at about a $10,000 over budget, which is great because we know there'll be costs that'll be unexpected, as there always are with large projects. So we feel like the community support for this and certainly the financial support that we got through private donors and then also through the Bluegrass Community Foundation was just very surprising and a wonderful thing. wonderful thing. Yeah. Well, so if there's 10 at 2,000, that's 22. I mean 20. And then the 1,000. So that's more than 20,000, right? I was just looking at your budget. On our budget, the... And then there's 1,000 for the student. So the budget that I'm looking at has all of our income and expenses. She's on page 18. Page 18. Oh, I was looking at page 11. Oh, I see 18 down there, two different pages. Okay, thank you, Tom. It's page 18, yeah. It also says page 11. Yeah. Anyway, but that's just like $1,000 discrepancy. Georgia, I think there are details like that that we can talk about, but I think what's probably most important is to figure out if there's a way and what that way is to get the sculptures that you hope to install through the process, through our process. So generally, our process is to have a conceptual approval, which would have been what we would have done today if we could have a quorum, is to go through that part of the process. At the conceptual approval, and Andy, you probably remember both of these parts with the other work, it's just saying, yes, it sounds reasonable, it doesn't look like it's going to fall and maim somebody, and it seems like it's conceptually appropriate for the space, meaning it's not offensive. The final approval for each sculpture requires an engineering stamp, which ultimately is what assures the safety, not only for the sculpture itself, but for how it's installed. So probably the pads that you have would get that engineering stamp for whatever you put on it. But in order for us to vote on it, we need to see the actual sculptures and the stamp for each one. So that's our typical process. Okay, so is that for a permanent installation or for a temporary installation that we need an engineering stand? It's permanent, and our definition of permanent is one year. Okay. And we work in an impermanent world, apparently. Okay. Yeah. And it might be... Yeah, our apologies. We were under the understanding that if the site, if the sculpture's removable, that they could be repositioned, that that was not considered permanent so we didn't realize that that we were going against that policy and speaking with environmental engineering at parks she felt very certain that they would not be considered permanent so again my apologies yeah yeah i think it's just it's a matter of definition we just have to go by what our bylaws how our bylaws determine that So it seems, based on the calendar that you shared, and our next meeting, our next meeting is like three days. Was it three days before you planned to install? No, we're installing installations are scheduled to begin the 20th of July. Our meeting is after. Our meeting is after. Yeah. So the way this would work in a perfect world is that you can get those engineering stamps as soon as possible and that we are all able to meet in the next couple weeks. Okay. And we can work hard to do that. I mean, we're all committed to this and want this to happen. It's a wonderful idea. And I know that, I mean, I love everything about the idea. And I love your executive statement about its purpose. And then the only remaining trick would be you have a statement in there about substitutions being strongly discouraged. From our point of view, a substitution wouldn't have a, we couldn't approve a substitution until we viewed it. At this point, to your concern, substitutions have already been addressed. Okay. And that's really also, nationally, the standard is not an engineering stamp for temporary installations of this nature. But we'll do our best to comply with your request. Certainly. And that being said, the substitution requirement was really geared more towards artists because a lot of times what will happen is they'll apply the same piece to multiple exhibitions um and so there's a little bit of shifting of the cards occasionally and it becomes a logistical nightmare so it's more it's more of a a please to them yeah my our attorney stepped out for a bit my guess is that it's a liability issue for the city sure for them to determine the one year and And I don't personally I don't know who does engineering stamps. Andy, you might already know people that do that. I do. I have access to engineers. Okay. This is not your first rodeo. No, no. All right. Well, again, my sincere apologies because we do not inform. Well, thank you for providing us with the opportunity to provide the additional. Can somebody give me context? Anything else? I think Shania has a question or a concern. but anything else I can do or anybody, any questions you have, we'll do anything to help you make this happen. Thank you. Yes, Sonia. I was just, I was trying to figure out, was I hearing that there's a different kind of base if something is temporary than if it's permanent? A different type of sculptural base? Yeah. I'm going to let Andy answer that question. I'm sorry, what was the question, ma'am? Well, I know we were talking about whether something was going to be permanent or whether it's going to be temporary, And that might affect, that would affect our process in terms of having to vote maybe, but is the base different in some kind of way? If something is permanent, a base of a sculpture, if it's permanent versus temporary? When we refer to the base, it's the concrete slab that they'll be anchored to. And those are temporary because they're not fixed permanently to the ground. They will be mobile, will require equipment to move them, but they are in effect temporary because they won't have to be dug up and excavated. And they were designed that way in accordance with Parks Department's wishes. Yes and no. The work will be for sale. The national model that we're following and the one that I... So let me back up. I've been exhibiting as an outdoor sculptor for the last 15 years. And this program was designed based on what is effectively a de facto national model. And what that is is that at that point, sculptures then become temporary rental properties of sorts where they're leased from the artist by the exhibiting institution for the duration of the exhibition. That could be six months to five years. And in that time span, the work can be for sale. It cannot be for sale. Each institution has coverage over that. And then the artist can also say, this is not for sale or for sale. But what this effectively becomes is an outdoor exhibition that is often modeled after what happens in an indoor exhibition. It just happens to be outside. And that's also because of the temper and nature. In my experience, most municipalities, university institutions, and other host organizations, things along the lines of a sidewalk policy tend to cover any liability that could be incurred by the sculpture. So that's been kind of my experience in the past. And engineering stamps are usually reserved for permanent commissioned projects, like the Isaac Murphy thing. And it's usually because they're temporary and because they're movable and because there's a fixed term whether we need to get a rider insurance wise to waive the liability concerns of the city. That's usually something along those lines or the institution, the university has a policy that again covers things like playground equipment, benches and other public structures. Well, Jennifer, we can ask counsel. Because we're more than happy to do our best to comply so that we're on the right side of this. And I'm more than happy to answer questions about my experiences and otherwise provide documentation for my own personal career that would help illuminate the subject for the council. I know, this has come up before, and so this is something that we're just following. Certainly. If there's a way to get around that, if there's any other two years or one year, like, work that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it would be something they would have to prove. I'll talk to Chappie. Okay, thank you. Okay. Thank you.