auto I'd like to call to order

the December 13, 2018 planning commission.

I'd like to welcome all you in the audience, welcome the staff

and all of our commission

members today: we have a full program. We are doing three meetings in

one so we are going to kind of

continue to push along here as best we can.

First thing we have is approval of minutes but I have been

informed we do not have the minutes prepared today so we'll

move right along to postponement s and withdrawals

and this will be part of the

subdivision committee.

>> we request a one month postponement to your January 24

th meeting.

Spoke with Mr. Bell yesterday

and we would like an opportunity

to discuss matters with staff to discuss if there is any common

browned to be found. >> anybody want to speak to this

recommendation for a postponement?

Anyone on the commission?

If not we'll entertain a motion.

>> I move for one month

postponement to January 24 for zota 2018-5.

>> it has been moved by Mr. Frank penn and seconded

that we postpone zota 2018-5

amendment update article 15 to January 24 or one month.

Any other discussion on the

motion? That motion carries.

Thank you.

>> Mr. Chairman members of the planning commission.

If we could turn to page 2.

Under development plans major

development 18-75 willow oak

shopping center, request a one-

month postponement to the January 10 meeting.  --

>> 24?

>> you said one month is that January 10. >> the subdivision.

The next subdivision, not zoning sorry.

>> and your reasons? >> staff recommending

postponement so we have more things to work on.

>> that's a good reason. >> anyone in the audience like

to speak to this proposed

recommendation for postponement.

Anyone on the commission.

>> I'll move postponement of pln -mjdp-18-75 willow oak

shopping center until January 10

>> moved and seconded that we

postpone pln-mjdp-18-75 willow

oak shopping center until January 10. Any other discussion on the motion?

Hearing none please vote when it

comes up on your screens. That motion carries.

Thank you.

>> next item on the agenda major

development 18-76 blackford

property phase 3 also request a one month postponement to

January 10 for the same reasons. >> anyone in the audience like

to address this particular proposed recommendation for

postponement. Anyone on the commission?

Ready for a motion. Mr. Berkeley.

>> move for postponement of pln

-mjdp-18-76 until January 10.

>> moved and seconded until January 10.

Any discussion on the motion? Please vote when it comes up on

your screens motion carries.

Thank you.

>> thank you.

>> Mr. Chairman members of the commission my name is matt

carter vision engineering.

I'm not sure what page in the agenda it is.

>> page 4. Top of the page.

>> distillery district... >> no, sorry.

Got the wrong one.

>> it's pln-mjdp-18-90. >> top of page 3.

I'm sorry.

>> we did not realize we had to post a sign and affidavit so

because of that we have to postpone until January 10 to get

that taken care of. >> anyone in the audience like

to speak to this particular

recommendation. Anyone on the commission?

We'll entertain a motion.

>> I'll move postponement of manhattan-mjdp-18-90 distillery

district west unit 1 until January 10, 2019.

>> second.

>> moved and seconded that we

postpone pln-mjdp-18-90 distill

ery district west to January 10.

Any other discussion on the motion?

Hearing none please vote when it

comes up on your screens.

Thank you.

>> Chairman Wilson on behalf of

the staff we have a postponement

on page 9 under item c 1 zota

2018-4, an amendment to update article 21, the staff reported

to both the zoning committee and the subdivision committee last

week that we intended to request an indefinite postponement of

this text amendment. we would ask the planning

commission to take action on

that today. >> thank you. Anyone want to actress this

particular issue in the audience

on the commission?

If not, motion. Mr. Berkeley.

>> I move for indefinite

postponement of so thea 2018-4

amendment to article 21.

>> moved and seconded that we in

definitely postpone zota 2018- 4 amendment to update

article 21. Any other discussion on the motion?

Please vote when it comes up on

your screens. Thank you.

That motion carries as well. Any others? >> yes, sir.

>> Mr. Martin.

>> Mr. Chairman, the staff would like to bring to your

attention the item on the top of page 4, item e.

This is major development plan 18-94.

Hamburg east lot 3, staff has

received a request for a one one one one one one one one one one one one

one one one one one one one one one one one one

one one one one one one one

>> anyone in the audience like

to speak to this particular postponement?

Anyone on the commission?

If not we'll entertain a motion. >> what is the date?

>> January 10. Miss Mundy.

>> Mr. Chair I move for

postponement to January 10, 2019

, for pln-mjdp-18-94 hamburg east lot 3 amended.

>> okay.

The motion has been made and

seconded that we postpone pln mj 18-94.

Any discussion on the on the any discussion on the motion?

Please vote when it comes up on

the screen anything else? Miss Wade, I go back to you

possibly for consent agenda item s?

>> thank you, Chairman Wilson members of the planning commission.

There re a number of items available for approval on the

consent agenda today and that is on the tan sheet that the plan

ning commission members have three items have been recommend

ed for approval by the subdivision committee as well as the staff.

One is subdivision item and two are development plans.

the first appears on page 1 item

ai at the bottom of the page for

pln mj sub 18-64 and that

property is located at 1101

walnut hill road because this property is located in the agricultural area of our county,

a sign is required to be posted

to indicate a subdivision is being requested and the engineer

has provided the required affidavit of such to the staff that appears to be in order.

The next item does appear on

page 4 and it's item f.

Development plan pln-mjdp-18-96 for fayette industrial park

block a lot 3, an amended development plan for property

located at 130 west tiverton way in lexington.

And the next item is a

development plan requested for one-year extension and that

appears on page 4 at the very

bottom, item g pln-mjdp-17-115

for cold stream research campus

unit 2 a lot 11 for hampton inn manies an amended development

plan for property located at

1801 new town pike.

The request for a one year

extension contains the same conditions. At this point I will ask if

there is anyone in the audience

that wishes to have any of these items heard by the planning

commission or further discussed

or if anyone on the planning commission would like to discuss

these three items today. Seeing none, Mr. Chairman, I

believe those items can be considered in one motion by the

planning commission. >> okay then we would like to

have a motion to accept the

consent agenda as provided by staff. Mr. Brewer.

>> yes, sir, Mr. Chairman I

move for approval of the consent agenda.

>> motion has been made to accept the consent agenda

provided by staff second made by Miss Carolyn plumlee.

Any other discussion from the panel commission members?

If not please vote when it comes

up on your screens. You have performance bonds and

letters of credit and without

objection, would I like to get a

motion to get that taken care of

while they're getting that set

up.

>> I move to release the call of

bonds as presented today. Now would anyone like to make a

motion for adjournment?

I mean we are on a role roll here.

>> back to the serious business at hand.

>> Mr. Chairman, members of the planning commission, the

first item on the agenda is on

page 3, it is a major

development plan 1893 wiggins

and company we would like to ask

if the applicant is present.

The address is located at 2520 nicholasville road.

The applicant or the engineer

responsible for this particular plan? Mr. Martin it seems they're

not here. >> we do not see anyone we

recognize or anyone we have

dealt with on this plan, Mr. Chairman.

There were some issues that we knew where we thought would be

discussed today so at this time I believe postponement would be

the prudent direction. >> have they attended any of the

committee meeting? S. >> they've attended committee

meetings, met with staff and we have communicated with them by

email as well about some of our concerns.

Yes, sir. >> we'll entertain a motion for

postponement.

Is nip in the audience object to a motion of postponement on this

particular agenda item? I might say that we will

postpone, if they happen to come

in late, we'll reassert them.

But we'll do it on the back end.

Okay.

>> move postponement for one

month of pln-mjdp-18-93 wiggins and company.

>> motion made and seconded that

we post pope for one month pln -mjdp-18-93 wiggins and

company incorporated lot 5. Any discussion on the motion in

hearing none... >> just one clarification.

We have been saying one month

and one month led to January 10.

Is this the tenth or the 24th of January?

>> typically those items are postponed until the first

meeting for the planning commission of the month so the

tenth would be appropriate.

>> the tenth. >> just for clarification.

>> good clarification. You've heard the motion.

Any other discussion? If not would you please vote

when it comes up on your screens okay.

Motion that motion has been

taken care of. As I am now looking at the

agenda, that means we have cover

ed all the items under the subdivision. We can now move to the second

part of our agenda and that

would be the zoning issues.

Miss Wade, there is one potentially that could satisfy

as an abbreviated. >> yes, sir. There is.

On page 7 of the agenda item 2 a

and b anderson communities and it has been recommended for

approval so if there are no objectors who wish to have a

full public hearing, we can continue with this item in an

abbreviated manner.

I would ask if anyone... Yes

ma'am, you are here today?

>> we'll go through the full

measure and follow the process.

Mr. Bailey.

>> good afternoon.

We are going to start with pln-mar-18-22. Cbrothers llc.

Bear with us.

We are just pulling it up now. >> we were growing to go ahead

and take 18-0024.

>> we can. First item on the agenda for

zoning cases is 22 on page 6. Mar 18-00022.

The applicant is seeking a zone

change from a restricted high density apartment r-4 zone to a

restricted light industrial I-1

zone for 4.43 net and 4.81 gross acres.

At located at 2370 sanders road. This had been discussed heavily

over the last couple of months

and recommended for postponement

the staff has worked with the

applicant subject property is

located on the south side of sandersville road part of the

hiel enmire nursery farm and

business until 2006.

the large block brick block

warehouse utilized by hillenmeyer business for several

decade for storage. The house on the far west is

known as the lincoln house. The property to the northwest is

zoned planned neighborhood residential zone.

All other adjacent properties are currently zoned a-u.

Plant nursery and still remain

for the hillenmeyer landscaping

located directly across from the

subject property.

300 feet away to the east is the norfolk southern southern railroad.

You can see it here.

Right below here you have the

spreeng lake golf course and hillenmeyer nursery right here.

Adjacent to the property during

the initial rezoning was a 2006 initial rezoning is a single

family home within that r-4 zone

that has been sold off by the

property owner. Used to be part of the property.

We have a closer vision of the property surrounding it.

You can see some I-1 located to

the east of the property over here I'm sorry, I-2.

Heavy industrial but there is a natural buffer that separates

them from residential from the

industrial use pattern including those in the wholesale warehous

ing b-4 zone.

Traditionally these are not recommended to be located

adjacent to residential developments but in industrial

mixed use projects are indicated if they are indicated to be the

intent of the site, the location can be appropriate.

This is due to either the incorporation of residential use

or uses that can be geared towards having an element focus

ed on neighborhood

residential elements golf cours ed to the south.

Planned residential neighborhood zone in this area that will be

developing shortly. You also have the nursery right

here and then your heavy

industrial uses over in this area.

If we are looking at the site

from the road, coming down sandersville road, this is fac

ing east towards the train tracks with the building on this side.

We do have those, the stone wall

s right along there, historic stone walls that does

restrict the roadway in this area.

Sandersville road while it is a

connector street, this area is somewhat substandard because of

the historic properties at the site.

You are restricted by both the

building itself, the warehouse

right here there is some heavy truck traffic but that is not

what staff is trying to see grow in this area.

That was some of the initial concerns that staff had with

this rezoning.

You can also see the pinch point underneath the railroad tracks.

In which the road narrows and shortens.

So again, if there is any major truck traffic that is going to

be coming through this area and perspective development, they

would be having to come from, if

we go back here, come from greendale along the west and cut

over on sandersville looking at the buildings themselves, these

are the historic warehousing right here.

Across the street you have some historic houses associated with

the current nursery and the new

construction that is to the west

of the property.

Over the course of the review process, the applicant has been

forth right and detailed regarding the proposed use.

The applicant indicates they're planning to utilize the space

and maintain the current

structures for four different uses permitted in the b-4 and I-

1 zones. Originally brick warehouse will

be divided into three sections

for three different uses.

Along this section right here of the warehouse, the eastern most

section, they're planning to do

historic car restoration and parts manufacturing and machin

ing.

I mention these parts manufacturing and machining

because there is a real

difference between these two things.

The applicant has indicated a

desire to package and sell parts which if the demand arise, the

packaging and sale of such machine items indicates a clear

shift from a machine shop, proin

use in the b-4 zone to one focus ed on the production of

manufactured goods, a use in the I-1 zone.

This shift occurs to due to the

sale of the parts to off site locations.

Machine shop is where lathes,

presses grinder,s and other

machines are used in aid to the

production of goods that will be utilized by the manufacturer in

support of their own work.

this use transitions to an I-1 or I-2 zone depending on the

intensity of the production.

The applicant proposes to store parts and materials associated

with the rehabilitation of

vehicles in this space as well, which is permitted in the b-4

zone.

The western most portion of the warehouse over here will be used

for the storage of bourbon

barrels as well as the bottling

of bourbon.

The storage is a permitted b-4 use whereas the bottling of any

beverage moves into that I-1 zone.

For this section you see they're

stating that there will be bottling, the bourbon from the

bourbon barrels that will be stored here staff wants to make

sure we are covering all types of beverages.

You'll see that in the conditional zoning that comes up

shortly. In the center portion of the

brick sure proposed a retail

sales of bourbon bottles, bottl ed bourbon and other finish

ed products applicant has indicated it will be a tasting

room where you can fill your

bottles. Row tail sales are permitted

within the b-1 zone and allow

able a flex face project.

The applicant proposes to

utilize the lincoln house, the western most portion over in

this area and we can see better

picture of that right here. There have been various aspects

staff was uncomfortable with put ting an I-1 zone in the

middle of a growing residential area. In an effort to maintain

historic structures on this site

, which include both the

warehouse and the lincoln house,

the applicant has proposed to

maintain and retain the existing 19th century structures.

They also have limited the I-1

use on the property and tailored it down just to the packaging

processing and similar treatment

of auto parts and benchings, including -- beverages including

the bottling facilities limiting

the total I-1 zone uses to 5,000

square feet of the entire development.

There are also multiple b-4 uses that everybody prohibited in

this zone including laundry, ice plants tire retreading, et

cetera, etc. You can see this on the streen

right now the petitioner indicates the proposed rezoning

complies with the adopted goals and objectives of the

comprehensive plan and rezoning associated plan identifies areas

of opportunity for adaptive re

use and mixed use development.

The plan is consistent with the

comprehensive plan's land use change consideration as it

proposed to employ underutilized land to provide greater utility

and function will promote historic preservation and

maximizes the use of property within the urban service area.

The conditional zoning restrictions will allow for the

preservation of cultural resources by maintaining the

historic structures while

incorporating new uses that incentivize the restoration,

development and maintenance of the historic structure.

Staff agrees with these aspects of the justification.

again this is the conditional

zoning proposed by the applicant and if you have any questions,

I'm here to answer.

>> any questions?

>> thank you Mr. Martin. >> Mr. Chairman.

Members of the planning

commission the development plan associated with the zone change

begins at the bottom of page 6

and continues to page 7.

The plan-mjdp-18-85 hillenmeyer

properties.

Here is than sandersville road

this is the large 30,000 square footwear house building that

they intend to save and utilize for new uses.

Here is the lincoln house, the

office area as it's known.

And associated parking 54 park

ing spaces as I said.

This is 30,000 square feet and

this is about 2500 square feet this is one of those plans where

there is no physical changes at

this time being proposed on the

property, however we would like

to note that in conversations

with the applicant, staff recommended and the applicant

has agreed that they're going to change the status of this plan

from a final development plan to

a preliminary development plan.

That's important for several

reasons.

So we've got an area here where there is an opening and as you

are aware and you've heard this discussion in the I-1 and b-4,

there is a restriction on distance that large warehouse

openings and doors and infrastructure structures

relative to the residential they're going to have to go to

the board of adjustment to address that issue and so that

is something that can be defer

red to a final development plan.

In addition they've stated their

intent to have a flex space project. That's one of the things staff

is very supportive of because it allows a variety of uses, many

of which are much more neighborhood oriented in terms

of the services that they can offer that is a final

development plan requirement and

it requires the uses be on the

plan it requires the parking to address those flex space issues

and that sort of thing.

So again they can solve that by

bringing in another plan to you, a final development plan for

your review no permits will be

issued under this preliminary dln plan.

They have to bring in a final development plan before they can

convert and utilize the%

structures as they intend with that I would direct your

attention to the conditions.

These are very standard conditions there are just a few

cleanup conditions that remain and I believe they'v actually

on one errings of the plan

addressed several of those the

last two conditions, 16 and 17 were both very important

discussion items, again these are final development plan items

and that's why they were on your

agenda and issues that had to be

resolved by going to a blim development plan staff is

comfortable with those two conditions stating that they

shall be determined at the time

of the final development plan because those are final

development plan issues this is certainly one we felt it was

appropriate for the enhanced landscape.

Sandersville road improvement that's a very difficult and

tough question out here.

As you are aware, large parts of this road still retain it's

rural character a large part of

that had to do with the stone

walls but again any time we have

a plan we want to talk about

necessary improvements in this

case particularly improvements

from those large newly

developing residential areas to

this development as they pursue

those flex space opportunities that beer hoping they will avail

themselves of. Staff is recommending approval

of the plan and I'll answer any

questions you May have.

>> questions for Mr. Martin?

Applicant.

>> nicauagua ol son on behalf of

the applicant cbrothers llc, the

members of the llc and rory

kaley is here with the partners.

Before I kind of get started, I want to basically issue a very

heart felt thank you to the plan ning staff and jacob walburn

who is representing the neighbor s.

This was a very tough project

for everyone involved and it is

a great example of how a successful project can come

together working together as a group from three different

perspectives. I think we've done a very good

job at krafting conditional zon ing restriction language that

will allow a great project to go forward and address any concerns

that the existing neighbors have and any future neighbors down

the road. this project is about saving the

historic structures that are on this property.

To give you an idea pa we are

really talking about this

facility was first created in 1810.

It was a cotton mill originally, therefore basically -- there for

a few decades until it became a manufacturing facility for

different types of cotton fabric s.

Since there was some scepticism about abraham lincoln's

connection to this kind of talk ed about at the zoning

committee, I have a plaque to show which we will talk about

here later as well.

For the next kind of few decades , it kind of went back

and forth from a manufacturing

facility and also some of the

land was sold off to the hillenmeyer family which was the

start of their family business

which would own this.

I think the 1880s, our firm's founder and his family helped

create the commonwealth distill ery company which

basically occupied this facility

creating bourbon for many, many decades and eventually in 1915

it was sold to the hillenmeyer

family, which basically had their main nursery operations

there until they sold it to our

clients who are here today. This is the side facing the

lincoln house on the west. You can see the heavy machinery

that was actually used here with the hillenmeyer nursery property

this is a look from the far west of the property where you can

see the lincoln house as well as

the kind of hillenmeyer nursery

building this top facility here middle of the roof is a fee

feature of the building and leads to natural light but one

of the reasons it was very problematic to turn this into a

residential facility as

originally contem mated 10 years ago. This is a close up of the

lincoln house back in the early 1900s and here is the first

label of the old elk bourbon dis tilled on site in this facility.

We went back, found some bottles from back then.

This was just their pint and

this was a gold pressed version

of their 750 millilitre bottle today it is more run down than

what it was in the early 1900s

this is the site that is on the lincoln side, the western side

of the property. Here's looking down where you

can fully see that this is the two story part of the building

and here is the opposite send

this is the opening that is

existing that Mr. Martin was discuss.

This is approximately standing

at the edge of the existing landscape now looking back to

give you a view point of how far away and how close this facility

is to the existing residential and this is the current

landscaping that has been installed as part of the final

development plan bee have acknowledged that we are going

to have to discuss some form of enhanced landscaping in this

area to make sure that we are an appropriate buffer between our

proposed use and residential. That will also include a

discussion about any type of lighting that goes in this

facility especially suring that the we are not basically

directing that toward the

residential structures.

This is the sandersville road

distance between the road and what was previously discussed.

We are tight. No argument. Another thing we are going to

have to discuss on the final

development plan because your typical streetscape does not

exactly work there but we have to make a commitment to ensure

that any public that is travel ing to our facility,

whether that be vehicles or pedestrians can enter our site

in a safe and productive manner

this is a good side shot of the building. You can see the step down.

There are three bays I'm going

to walk you through this is the two story and the far end is

what we showed earlier, the true one story side.

Here is a more close up of that

one story side they're bays,

split into three different parts of equal about 100 feet each and

that's kind of why it was easy

to propose a flex space project

because there are already this is the door in question facing

the residential side you can see the natural light coming in that

itself certainly a feature that

we want to ensure is retained moving forward this is part of

the project that we are going to

be using for the kind of

historical car 1960s, 70s restoration of those types of

cars and as you can see, right

here and a closeup right here, there are already vehicular bays

that were historically used by the hillenmeyer nurse are I for

storage of their facilities and

while these are certainly not, you know, typical historical

cars, you can see the coffins

are storing to vehicles in here that I don't believe they have

moved since they've own the property.

This is moving into the kind of

the one and a half story facility.

You can see that there is a full

very large facility and an under

floor about this is the floor

that is still in tact from it's rnlg form this is what we are

looking at under feeth. I'm not kidding when I say this

is only a story and a half in

here. This is ducking underneath and

this is looking back this area is where we are envisioning to

have the public area, the tast

ing room, hand bottling, pocket of food service would be

the area that is dedicated to be

really the neighborhood engage

ment area you can see this natural light coming through in

here and you can also almost envision the bricks that would

be holding the bourbon that are already there. Of course a whole lot of work

would have to be done in order

to turn this into the proposd

facility but that gives you an idea walking through the

building of the current

condition and how it is separat

ed there is an actual

plaque we can point back to our

roots that marid to's father own ed this facility and used the

office as his personal office. This is what the facility look

likes now currently used as

their equine office and I wanted to make sure you saw what it is

currently today.

I show you these pictures so you know what this promise is all about.

It is making sure we turn these buildings into a productive use

in order to ensure that their

history continues forward. We think we are providing a very

great use. A multitude of uses.

If this was inside the infill and redevelopment zone we would

be calling it an adaptive reuse project but since it is not, we

are left with what Mr. Murphy

has put forward in a previous

text amendment as a flex space project.

This gives us the opportunity agreeing to conditional zoning

restriction that requires the buildings to be maintained and protected.

We are actually using the buildings in many of the ways

they have historically been and

doing so in a manner that will

engage the neighborhood and create a neighborhood focal point that you can walk to or

come down to or important importantly you can share with

your neighbors and any visitors, something unique that is about

your neighborhood. We acknowledge there is work

that has to be done for the final development plan about it

we feel this is a very important first step to take to ensure

that we are able to kind of preserve these buildings and

create a good neighborhood

project but also protecting that neighborhood moving forward. Out of respect for what I know

is a very long docket, I will

kind of cut my words there.

The owners of spring valley and hillenmeyers were planning on

being here today but in my error

I was not expecting so many postponements and I told them

that they didn't need to show until around 2:30.

I apologize but they were here

in support for this project or

planning to be in support of the project.

Jacob walburn is here representing the two residential s and here we are.

>> I am here.

>> steven hillenmeyer. Obviously this project is pretty

important to our family.

Been there for many, many years. Our 177 year history continues.

We are just across the street

but the fact that someone has stepped up to the plate to find

a way to use this historic

building is important to us and I just wanted to be here today

to let you noy that we support it.

We have 16 acres right across the street and nothing would

make us happier to see this, you know, really restored back to

what it was and/or improved as

opposed to continuing to go down

hill an dilapidated. There are not many people that

will step up to the plate to do something like this.

So I just wanted to come today and let you know that we are in

full support of the project.

>> thank you.

Any questions... Have you finish ed your presentation.

>> there are going to be two re visions to the staff recommendation in order to just

make sure that everything is

solidified for the final development stage.

As you can see, instead of the two discussion items, those

would be transitioned to denote

and also add landscape buffer and lighting in order to make

sure that those are resolved at the time of the final

development plan.

My question for you is this.

If this is not approved, do you have the ability to scrape the building?

>> we do have that ability, yes.

It is not on a national, you know, historic register or

anything like that.

In looking over the past decade

at ways to turn this into a high density residential which is

what it is currently zoned for, it has simply been determined it

was not easible a lost problem

related to the natural light kind of piece.

If you think about the design on how apartments would have to

work in this facility one you would have the slope issue of

one story, one and a half and

two stories but also you have kind of an apartment configur

ation problem. Wide enough to have two

apartments and a hallway, do you really want to waste the best

feature on your hallway.

It wouldn't be able to introduce natural light into the apartment s and leave you with

only the side win doughs.

The other issue is you would

have two very distinctly apartments.

One right up on the road of

sandersville road as staff indicated there is industrial

traffic on and the other side is looking at on what now is the

golf course.

Two very distinct apartment feels. the other solution to that is we

have to create very narrow but

very long apartments and so you

would have ones that span the entire length of the building so

you get to take advantage of the

natural light but it did not logistically work because you

are dealing with one story apartments on one side and the

kind of double set on the other

and so a very long winded answer to your question is yes they

have the ability, no, they do

not want to because every question they've had when

developing this question is how

to protect this building but if

we don't get out of the residential zone, I don't know

if they'll have much of a choice >> any our questions.

>> this is a citizen participation time.

Anyone who would like to speak

to this particular development

plan?

Mr. Walburn?

>> jacob walburn on behalf of

the adjacent neighbors. I did want to point out to the

commission that both of them are here today that's who are

important and significant they

think this project is to their home we have reached an

agreement with the conditional

zoning restrictions that have been suggested my clients would

find this project to be acceptable.

There is a little hert burn on both sides and that's usually

indicative a good deal was made. For the commission's information

and as you can consider final

development plans my clients were primarily concerned with

three things, because of the close approximate proximity of

their residents and it is their home, they wanted to make sure

any industrial operations we

talk about some of the uses permissible in the I-1 zone and

b-4 could be a little

problematic to live next to

concerned about lighting and joyce and truck traffic but the

way it has been drawn while

there is no such thing as a

perfect solutiony athink it accommodates mostly our concerns

and with those resolution items that address some issues of

importance to my clients, will

of course will stay tuned during the final development plan

process to make sure that our

concerns are accommodated I can say that we have withdrawn our

objection to the zone change. That we are pleased that they

are able to preserve this historic property.

We think it's a beautiful

building and a great example of lexington architecture that is

frankly fading away. So with that I would be happy to

answer any questions that you

might have but pleased to work

with staff and pleased to work with Mr. Nicholson and had his clients.

I think we've come to a solution that everyone can live with.

>> good to know.

Any questions or comments?

I'm blight delighted that you to preserve the historical

buildings, get good news for them and come to the

accommodation that you need to make in order to do your

business enterprise as well anyone in the audience like to

speak to this particular agenda item? Then I'm going to abbreviate

things just a little bit because there are no objections.

I'll close out the particular audience area and come back to

the commission for discussion% and/or motion. >> Mr. Owens.

>> thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to echo what Mr.

Wilson said as far as applicant staff and neighbors

working on this diligently to make it work.

We are or dealing with unique

property here and my history

says that I've known this as

what I'm going to say as a commercial wholesale retail

landscaping business for many years as Mr. Hillenmeyer said.

He said 175 years. Pie history is not quite that

long but it has unique features. It's got a very special building

or two on it. I applaud them with trying to do

something to work with and save. The rest of the property is unique as well.

You have a golf course that

surrounds it on one side,

railroad tracks that help buffer

you've got practically one lane

underpass that helps control the

traffic and large traffic and it

has for many years and it's work

ed when anybody is ready, I'll make a motion.

>> any other general comments. In that case Mr. Owens if you

would like to make a motion.

>> I move for approval of plan

mar 18-22 cbrothers llc. Noting the revised conditions

presented by staff. I believe there are three

reasons on this for approval.

>> mike owens has made a motion

to approval prove pln-mar-18-22 cbrothers llc.

it has been seconded by Mr. Patrick brewer and motion

is made with the conditions as

identified by staff.

Any other discussion on the motion? Please vote when it comes up on

your screens. And make note of the development plan.

>> I move for approval of

pln-mar-18-22 hillenmeyer

property llc with the 17 noted cnsz.

Changing 16 to read denote improvements to sandersville road.

Subject to the final development

plan and then also number 17 to

denote enhancement of landscap

ing buffer and lighting

next to r-4 zone to the east of the property at the time of the final development plan.

>> and this is a preliminary plan.

>> and this is a preliminary plan. >> moved and seconded that we

approve the preliminary plan -mjdp-18-85 hillenmeyer

properties, llc. With the 17 conditions as

provided by staff number 16 de

notes the improvement of sand ersville road subject to the

final development plan and 17 de

note enhanced landscape buffer

next to r-4 zone to the east

subjected to the final plan.

Any discussions on the motion? If not please vote when it comes

up on your screens. That motion carries.

Thank you all.

Located at 2811 spur road.

The petitioner proposes rezoning a portion of the subject

property to the high density apartment zone to allow for the

construction of three elderly

apartment buildings. Additionally the applicant

proposed to remove the conditional zoning on the

remaining portion of the subject rot to allow for the

construction of the apartment buildings while also allowing

for higher density and mixture of housing options.

The proposed zone change would

include the development of 364

total units at a density of 9.64

units per acre. The subject property is located

on the north side of spur road

just west of the norfolk southern railroad.

Running this way.

And having sandersville road stub into the property coming

from this side.

Over the last two years a

greater mix has not affected the urban service area. The zoning surrounding the

property is primarily comprised

of the planned neighborhood residential r-3 zone with

smaller portions of the agricultural rural zoning to the

north and west over in this area

there is a small portion I-1 zoning and high density

apartment zone located approximately a third of a mile

northwest of the subject

property along georgetown road.

It was initially changed in 2006

during the initial rezoning the petitioner proposed the

development of 128 single family residential dwelling units on

the subject propery.

The applicant proposed development was concentrated on

the western portion of the

property over in this area. The applicant's proposed

development was trying to move the furthest it could produce

from the railroad and creek and soils. You can better see the creek in

this picture right here along

the western portion right there over all density of the

development was 3.53 dwellings per net acre.

Consistent with the specific

recommendations of the 2001 comprehensive plan planning

commission approved the rezoning of the subject property to the

r-3 zone with conditional zoning

restrictions regarding density, setbacks and environmental conservation.

These restrictions state that a total average density shall be

equal to or less than five units

per net acre 50-foot setback

would be provided along spur

road to maintain the rural esthetic along the roadway.

And the 16.4 acres of wooded land depiblghted on the

development plan and as you can see here, not the development

plan but this wooded area in

this area would be protected and

the environmental sense

sensitive area would be preserv

ed. Here we are looking at the

property. This is on the top we are

looking into the property from

lucille drive looking west along

spur road and then looking east along spur road you can see the

bump right there is whir you are

seeing the train tracks cross

spur road down spur road you can

see the bend around and then

back towards the railroad tracks this is looking into the

property from sanders bill road

the stub that is currently there

this is directed to the southeast towards spur road and

back towards the neighborhood amount canted --

the applicant indicates the zon ing currently is

inappropriate. They opine there have been

significant changes in the economic, physical and social

nature within the area, not anticipated when the conditional

zoning was imposed.

And that these changes have substantially altered the

character of the area becoming inappropriate and improper.

This specifically hits on the 50-foot building line set back which was to preserve the rural

character of spur road. However, as new development has

occurred in the area, spur road has become more urbanized and

the roadway is propoatsed to be

improved to urban standards.

Regarding the 16.4 acres of wood

ed land determined to be an environmentally sensitive, the

applicant suggests the area has

been more precisely studied since its designation.

The applicant will seek to locate proposed developments in

areas outside the vegetative buffer associated with the creek

and alouvrial areas. While not discussed by the

applicant there have been changes to the lfucg zoning

ordinance and storm water manual

that protects -- that establishes conditional zoning of its own

and protects these environmental ly sensitive areas.

Article 19-7 g 4 c, the vegetative buffer zone.

This buffer allows for the protection of environmentally

sensitive areas that were the

concern of the planning commission when the conditional

zoning restriction was put into place.

Furthermore, the regulation of

the areas allow for targeted in

fill of the urban service boundary on properties that May

contain environmentally sensitive areas but do not cover

the entirety of the property. Additionally, the petitioner

opines the r-4 and the removal of the conditional zoning is

consistent with the 2013 and

adopted goals and objectives of the 2018 comprehensive plan by

maintaining the urban service boundary while increasing the

density of housing.

Petitioner candidates it -- indicates prioritizing the

higher density and a mixture of

housing types. It also supports infill and re

development throughout the urban service area through the

mixed type and higher density. The application -- the applicant

suggests the zone change will allow for the production of safe

affordable and accessible hous ing to meet the needs of

older and/or disadvantaged residents. Additionally the applicant opine

s the proposal also maximized development on vacant

land within the urban service

area and promotes the use of underutilized land in a way that

enhances the existing urban form

the staff concurs with these elements of the applicant's

justification and supports the request for rezoning.

If you have any questions, I'm

here to answer them. Mr. Chairman, members of the

planning commission I forgot my

agenda.

so I will direct you to the page of your eand...

>> pln-mjdp-1-83.

>> I direct your attention to

this lovely, lovely blue piece

of paper and these are the revised conditions applicable to

this plan today with this

particular zone change.

This is a combination plan and

that is a 34reu78 preliminary development plan that impacts

this area of the r-4 request where the apartments, the

elderly housing are located.

This area over here which is

sfam lir homes along with some

townhouses, in this location are

the r-3 portion of the property

and are subject to a preliminary

subdivision plan at this time.

The elderly apartments, the r-4 section is approximately nine acres.

You can see there are three buildings in these locations

here, five stories.

They're going to have 210 units.

There are 163 parking spaces associated with this development

there is 158 required so they're not overparking the development.

They have a lesser parking

requirement because they are

elderly housing units.

They have proposed an emergency and gated access off spur road

in this location.

There are 130 single family lots throughout the development.

There are 25 towns houses as

this plan evolved discussions the applicant and staff, there

was a lot of concern about the

street system certain aspects of the development.

You can see the main entrance and this will be a collector, a

boulevard in this location which will intersect with sandersville road.

The rest of the streets are

local streets the characteristic of this development that is very

important is the street pattern

that they are proposing and the single family lots to be rear

loaded with access easement and

all vehicular access to be to

the rear of the units that will allow them to move the units

closer to the street a more

urban appearance and urban feel which is consistent with other

developments this particular

developer has done there is a stream in this location.

It is not fema flood plain so it is not regulated but it is

subject to the storm water

manuals and those types of similar protections for an

environmentally sensitive area

and you can see it's an amenity

to the property and right in

this location is a pump station

that's a temporary pump station it along with several others in

town will eventually go off line

as we don't make improvements to

our sanitary sewer system in our community with the consent

decree. There are two waivers associated

with this opinion.

And we... You have the report.

These waivers are connected to

the design of this development

very much an integral part to

the proposed development mat earn that this developer wishes

to achieve and again -- I might need some tech support here.

There we go. This entire street system, you

can see how tight it is and how

the streets are located with the intersections.

Those of you on the committee

knew staff was concerned about this intersection and you can

see this revised plan that has

addressed that the concern there are medians and that's an

integral part of this design that prevent conflicts and

direct the traffic now.

That was a big concern of staff

that traffic be able to know where to go.

How this was going to operate. This is a two-way street that

will take you into the apartment complex but when they come out,

here going to have to go around

the median and come back out if

they wish to access spur road at this location.

That was not kerr on the previous design.

By providing a median and pork chop in that area, they helped

lean that up. That was a big concern for staff

at the time.

The waivers are two fold one is

a request to waive the geometric requirements of the street and

this affects the right of way

much applicant is proposing to

maintain the required pavement

width. However they're asking for a

waiver of the right of way so

the utility strip and sidewalk

and street trees would be in an easement adjacent to the right

of way that they are going to dedicate adjacent to the roadway

s this is part of their

vision for this plan this is to

allow them to have a more street

oriented development with their

homes closer to the local

streets the easement would be in the front yard, the homes would

be closer and it's part of their

desire to create more urban feel that's the reason for that

particular waiver request on the

geometrics. There is also one associated with the right of way on the collector because it's going to

be wider when you utilize a median which is generally a

boulevard characteristic, they're going to be wider in

this particular situation

through here.

And wider here as well.

The other small wear associated

again with street geometrics is

the spacing of access.

This driveway into the clubhouse ar area does not meet the

minimum distance from the center line of spur road so that's

another aspect of their geo metric waiver.

About 150 feet.

Minimum spacing is generally 250 feet. One of the concerns if you have

traffic generated you don't want the access point to be too close

to other access points or too close to collectors.

This is a very small parking lot it's designed to serve the

clubhouse, which is an amenity

there is one concern that staff

has about the waiver on the geo

metrics and utilization. That is a concern that was voic

ed very strongly by our traffic engineering people and

as you all know we work very

closely with those folks and

they're very, very good people.

A lot of complaints down to the

mundane of where is the stop sign going to go. Somebody knocked over my stop

sign, where is the street sign. People are driving too fast so

they're very concerned about

operational issues and right of

way is clear fee simple ownership to the government and

an easement is not.

we are confident we can develop language for the easements that

will grant the government all the authority they need to

address these operational issues

whether they're maintenance or whether the placement of signage

and that sort of thing, just

like we do in a right of way.

And staff believes that this is

part of an important step

towards helping realize a design

of this nature which is driving this development and we don't

see a lot of these developments

in our community as you are

aware. There is one other waiver and I

know that waiver covered a lot

of ground a waiver request for

the geometrics it is not going to be gated.

It will allow full movement for both the public and public

safety vehicles. This has been done in some other areas.

It has been done for several

apartments in our community and commercial areas where public

streets transition into a

private, sometimes a parking lot

instead of building a full sized cul-de-sac in that particular location.

It's not common but it's

certainly not unheard of.

And this particular case they also are trying to mitigate

their impact on this green area and this drainage because this

has to function for their storm water and they also want to

protect it as an amenity 10

trying to terminate and build a big cul-de-sac would

unnecessarily impact this environmentally sensitive area

and you still have to have

access into into the apartments. nomple allie we don't encourage

apartment access on to a local street.

We try to get them out on to the collector to avoid moving

through neighborhoods.

However this distance right here to lucille.

That's lucille and that's a

major collector as you all know

is going to run from spur to lee stown.

That distance is not remotely

close to meeting the subdivision

requirements for spacing along a collector.

However from lucille to their

proposed boulevard does meet the

requirements so staff felt it would be better to bring these

folks and it is an element out

through this short expanse to a

collector and then down to spur road.

So they are requesting a waiver of the determine nation

requirements under the regs, the cul-de-sac requirements as well

staff has reviewed this and

again as I said we consulted with law on the easement question.

We are recommending approval of these waivers.

There is a condition that we are recommending that you can see on

page 2 of your waiver report at

the bottom that states that

easement language sufficient to provide the government the full

ability to meet all operational requirements will have to be

developed to the approval of law

planning and traffic engineering at the time and all final record

plats are filed that will

dedicate the streets because

that's the time that the streets

get dedicated and easements are created so it will actually be a

component of the final record plats as they come through to be

recorded and as you are aware, that's after all the infrastructure has been

constructed and it's just a

matter again of creating lots so

they can build houses. We are recommending staff

approval of the plan and waiver

and I'm happy to answer any

questions you May have for staff

going back to the geometrics,

are those 31 not streets inside

the curb to gutter yes, sir.

As required but they're 3 is foot. >> yes, sir.

>> so the addition since the

subdivision review is you wide enthe boulevard and they've

extended the median to remove the conflict.

That was our major discussion. Thank you.

>> any other questions.

Thank you.

Applicant. >> thank you Mr. Chairman.

I'm dick murphy pleased to be representing anderson

communities and dennis ands is here with me in the back and

rory kaley you probably can't see him.

It's a crowded room but we found

some chairs in the back.

As the staff mentioned to you,

this is a zone change for about

38 agers of land up on spur road near the railroad track.

This has been subject of a zone

change before you back in 2006

with a different developer they had bad timing with that.

It was just before the start of

the great recession. Unfortunately this property has has

been in bank ownership since 2011 for over seven years it has

been owned by the bank with no

development activity on it. Dennis is under contract to

purchase this and we think it is

a good opportunity to do a development with mixed type of

housing on it as dennis has done

in other locations we are model ed on townly center.

We have gotten a number of awards for townly and I'll show

you street system is very

similar to was we had proposed

in townly center as well. I do want to say that we agree

with all staff reasons for

approval and all staff conditions all development plan

and on the waivers I know you have a lot on your agenda.

I'm not going to make a long presentation on the comprehensive plan.

I have two or three pages in our applications demonstrating how

this agrees with the 2013 plan

and the 2018 plan goals and objectives. The staff has discussed this

with you but just to summarize,

there are a number, a few over arching goals in the

comprehensive plan and that is

includes increasing density with

a variety of housing types, utilizing overlooked parcels for

development.

Encouraging pedestrian friendly

communities and preserving the urban service boundary.

Those are the offer arching

goals as far as residential use goes and we meet all those goals

both the 2013 plan and the 2018

goals and objectives.

This is our plan as you saw it

we have had a lot of discussion

spur road, the railroad tracks,

and our entrance off spur road a

loat of discussion about that parking lot there and the

streets in general.

So we revised that to bring to you and have made a number of

changes as Mr. Martin has

noted to you, first of all his ning staff, redesigning this

extending this median, putting the pork chop in there to direct

people out, to make this a safer intersection flow on the property.

We have eliminated driveway

access down here our visitor parking for the townhouses has

been shifted down to this location.

And we note the greenway coming in.

As this is one of the major design features of the

development that you come in off

spur road and the median of the

collector street links up with

the open space we are going to

have in the rear. Woo have -- we have entry from

this street and the independent

housing facility over here so you will have pedestrian access

all the way around. Single loaded street up here for

access to the open space up

there as well we think it is very well designed.

Independent living here.

Townhouses here.

Family detached residential on

the rest of the property. I'll discuss some other design

feature as long with the waivers

this is an air yeal -- aerial

photograph of townly where and the shopping center where you

cross the road and come into townly.

We have a similar setup with the

median right here, we have

similar layout the of the street systems.

But there is one difference

between us and townly townly was

done 10 or 15 years ago and our streets out here, Mr. Penn,

this goes along with the question you asked, our streets

are going to be five feet wider

than what is allowed on townly

so will be similar but five feet

wider to meet the 31-foot cross

section back of curb to back of

curb because the subdivision regulations have been changed

since townly was done.

But you can see the layout of

townley, the houses are about 10 feet back from the edge of the sidewalk and that's what the

waiver is requesting for. What this does, the waiver

allows us a couple of things

allows us to bring the houses

closer our 20-foot setback is

measure from the curb. The houses will be about 10 feet

back from the sidewalk rather

than being 20 feet back from the sidewalk wrk use that space to

do the rear alley ways on here

and by using the rear alley way,

our streets are dominated not by

driveways and garages but by houses and porches, which I

think goes along with what our comprehensive plan calls for as well.

The other thing you don't see, this is a photograph of townley.

The other thing you don't see is

a driveway every, whatever 30 or 40 feet along there.

That makes for safer sidewalks because you don't have driveways

pulling out over the sidewalk

every so many feet and the thing also, it allows you to have the

houses closer so the person can

sit on their porch, have some intersection with people walking

along the walk whether it's just

to say hi and hi these days is

an important form of interaction

among people, or you can talk a little while longer if you want

to from your porch to the

sidewalk.

We've done this in wool wood ridge development how are we

going to be looking different on the ground by getting our waiver

on this? The answer is there is going to

be no difference on the ground as far as the width of the

street is. In townley, what you see there,

we did this before, you allowed us to have the right of way

measured to the back of the curb

and then we had a combined

utility street tree easement and

a sidewalk easement for the sidewalk and we are asking for

essentially the same thing.

We'll have the right of way

utility and street tree easement and sidewalk easement which will

give us the full width as if we

built it to the regular 50 or 60 feet width which is required

for the awb public street. There is no difference on the

grund as far as the appearance of the street whatsoever.

We have agreed to work out the

wording of the easement as required by the government.

We are not trying to take away any government rights in the

sidewalk or street trees or utilities.

We want to word it the way law department traffic planning and

engineering want do it to assure whatever is in the easement is

available for future use by the city whether it be street wid

ening or repairs or whatever. We've agreed to work out that

language with the staff, traffic engineering division and law

department as well. We feel our waiver is justified

and I think this is precisely

the reason there is a section in your subdivision regulations,

which allows waiver for design innovation.

It says you are supposed to meet

the intent of the subdivision regulations and I sure their

think we do because we are providing on the ground the same width.

We are just using a different nomenclature to call it an

easement instead of part of the right of way.

Would be the same width but it

meets the goals of the subdivision regulations and

allows an innovative form of development, which as I said

will put our houses closer to the street.

Allow us to have a more pedestrian-oriented development.

Which has provenned successful

in townley subdivision.

We are very pleased with the development we have before you

because we do think it is the

type of development that you'll see more of in the future here

and we think it's the type of

development that is called for

by both the 2013 plan and the 2018 plan.

I did get a chance to talk to a couple of the neighbors while we

were waiting for this to come on

one of them did did mention that

there May be a grave ward on the property.

We were not aware of that and previous two plans which you've

had before you in 2006 and last

year did not show a graveyard either but we'll check the

property for a graveyard and if there is one, you have ordinance

s we have to comply with and we would have to show

that compliance to you on a final development plan.

We had concerns about traffic

coming through and I think I mentioned though those, too.

But I want to mention that we

have designed this purposefully

the medians act as a traffic calming feature urban county see

we have some curbs here.

The lanes while they're wide lanes they appear a little more

narrow perception wise and act

as a traffic calming fee awr

auras well.

I've read just having houses closer to the street acts as a

traffic cawp little feature

because there is a perception

that the road is narrower we are happy to answer any questions

you might have.

>> if I questions for Mr.

Murphy?

>> 130 single family units,

you've got dimensions showing

town homes and apartments.

Most of the lots up here are

very similar there are a few

lots that appear to be bigger. How much variaton do you fore

see with the single family units?

>> they have a number of different... Dennis is coming up

to address that. There are a number of different house plans.

I'll let him address that.

>> just a curious question.

>> I'm dennis anderson I live at

120 east main.

These lot sizes are 26-36 feet so there are variation in the

single family.

We have, basically three floor plans and three different

elevations and that's the same

model we used for townly.

We bring them in at a good affordable number.

It creates a streetscape where

there is no two nine houses, I don't think there are nine house

s on any block so there are

no two houses that are identical

>> do you have any size projections.

>> 1350 square feet just about

all of them are 1350.

Tree bedrooms two and a half

baths.

The utilities are in the strip

where they normally are. >> the same place.

>> we have underground utilities

here now again citizen time. Is there anyone in the audience

that would like yes ma'am.

Come on. Just like up.

>> I'll be fast. I have three issues.

I live at 2969 spur road, I'm karen wynne.

I'm directly west. My property is zoned agriculture

and I don't see anything in

their proposal to assure me that

they're going to put up fencing along agricultural land as

required if in the building code 6-3 b.

I want to be sure that there is,

because I have horses on my property. I don't want people coming

through the subdivision and just

coming into my pastures and damaging my livestock or anything like that.

I want to be sure that was addressed. Number two.

There is a historical cemetery

on the property this is the old est cemetery.

There were six stones and what

they tawld field stones that

represent field graves slave

graves.

Stevens 1761 to 1801 and another one born in 1756.

This is a very old grave graveyard and I wanted to be

sure that was also addressed in their planning to either urks

you know, move the graves or

properly fence it off and be respectful of it.

Number three, spur road itself from the railroad tracks due

west to the boundary of 3011 spur road a short section of

maybe a quarter of a mile but it

is very, very, very narrow.

And I would like that the county

or the city or whoever owns that

road make some provisions to widen it.

I guarantee you my mail box is knocked over at least four times

a year because the shoulder on

the north side of the road is non-existent. Steep drop off there as well as

at this property. The looed way with additional

traffic coming in and out of the

subdivision needs to be address

edment. >> I'm angel read.

If I go over my three minutes, please stop me because I have a

lot of concerns.

I live in park side at masterson where the neighborhood that is

going to back up to this new subdivision. Sandersville is going to run

straight through, which bothers me in that right now yes, it

dead ends right there.

But a lot of children play out there in the road. I mean not play in the road but,

you know, they're playing out there I worry about cut through

traffic coming through our little neighborhood.

We have 135 homes in the neighborhood.

We were part of the sniders briggs development that went ca

put and what we got is was we've got. I don't know.

I don't know when anderson starts building their community

if it is like what they say, it

is nothing like our community

sitting right here.

It's just bothers me that the traffic is going to come through there.

I agree with Miss Wib as far as

spur road we have a very large

green space in our neighborhood and the cars have taken the tree

out.

They've taken I mean they've taken our stone fence.

I mean it's very narrow and very dangerous road.

So I would think something would

have to be done as far as wid ening. I've always told my husband, my

favorite road in lexington is spur road especially coming up

from the back through the farms

and everything.

But I realize growth has to go on. Has anyone thought about the

schools. Sandersville is almost maxed.

Just something to think about that there is going to be more children.

Where are they going to go to

school?

I know they talk about park side as master son but we are not

part of mass masterson station. We are our own little

neighborhood of the 135 homes and we are on our own.

i've even asked before about

having speed bumps but they said we couldn't do that because we

would have to pay for it and our hoa can't afford it.

We are just too small but those

are some of my concerns.

>> tiffany roland.

I live at park side. To echo what these ladies have

said, have I two small children and I'm concerned about the school system.

We have been redistricted once.

My child started in sandersville

and we moved to coventry oak. I'm the P.T.A. President.

We are a C.S.I. School as many

of you read in the news that has

issues that we are dill diligent ly trying to address.

I spoke with the principal and assistant principal this morning

and we are very close to max

already capacity as well I have never been part of something

like this before but I do have concerns of someone who has been

in lexington and part of the

community now for 15 years and set my family up here of what we

are going to do as this area as

we can see is growing in and lexington needs growth.

They told us it was phase 3. I always knew there would be

housing in my backyard so I'm

not arguing that but I do have concerns as we grow that the

infrastructure of the schools

and the streets must be address ed.

>> thank you, ma'am.

Mr. Murphy, I've heard, based on what the issue is fencing,

historical cemetery. I don't know where... Anybody

have any idea where the cemetery

May be located? The schools are beyond our

purview but address what you can , Mr. Murphy.

>> on the agricultural fencing, I think Miss Wynne's tract is

about four and a half acres. If it is being used for

agricultural use, we'll do what

is required in the subdivision regulations. That is normally addressed on

the final development plan or final subdivision plan.

There is a provision in there and we do need to address that

with Miss Wynne because I think the default on that is if you

get together with your neighborhood and don't agree,

it's a wire fence but you can

agree on other types of fence, too, if both people on both

sides of the fence agree so we'll meet with her to see what

can be done on that the cemetery this was the first time we've

heard of this.

It hasn't been shown on any previous plans but we'll check

into that and you have ordinance

s on cemeteries and if

there is, we'll have to show you cliens with that on the final

development plan as well spur road there was some discussion

at the subdivision committee on that and I didn't bring it up in

my main presentation but we are

doing an urban section on our

portion of spur road there was some discussion previously on

what would be there whether it

needed a curb and that sort of thing.

We are showing curb, gutter and sidewalk along spur road but

I'll mention to you that our houses on spur are not going to

have driveways on spur. They're going to be rear loaded

like the other ones.

we will be doing the urban

section along our frontage of this property.

The other frontage obviously will have to be addressed at

other developments or through

the government itself.

As far as traffic goes, the

connection with sandersville road and the rear of our

property is something we are

supposed to do and required to did and we're showing that connection.

As I mentioned to you, I think

on our property we are doing built in traffic calming feature

s on the property. I don't think that there is

going to be a lot of incentive

for outsiders to cut through this subdivision because it's

just going between the two neighborhoods there.

Our neighborhood and the

neighborhood on the west of us. I don't think there is going to

be a great deal of traffic generated from that.

Schools, I will point out that

the bulk of our units are independent living units which I

hate to use the word but under

the ordinance they qualify as elderly housing, have to be 6

the years of age or older and that's not going to be

generating school students.

Some of ours will. Widening of spur road is

probably going to be a challenge because that will be a governmental issue as well as

what they can do with what the government will be able to do

along those lines. And of course I understand the

issue with the schools as well I'm just trying to quickly

summarize as it relates to the people who have come forward.

Do you have any other thoughts? With that I'll turn it to the

commission and ask if you have any questions of any of the

people that have presented so

far. I'll bring it back to the

commission for additional

discussion and/or a motion nobody else has anything they

want to bring up, I'll be glad

to make a motion. >> we'll probably, depending how

the first one goes, probably need three different motions.

Go ahead.

>> want the waiver separate. >> yes.

Here's what I would like.

Zoning first. Preliminary, the plot second and

the waivers collectively third. Mr. Chair, I'm going to move

for approval of plan mar 18-24

with the three for the three

reasons noted by staff.

>> moves approval.

Any other discussion on the motion? Woul you please vote when it

comes up on your screens.

>> I'm going to move for approval of the, was it three or

four waivers?

Granting as well as the condition for the additional

requirements for the easement language. >> just a minute.

Let's go back to the preliminary

plan if you could first for a

second. Save the waivers for last.

>> going to move for approval of

plan-mjdp-18-83 with the nine revised conditions as proposed

about I staff.

>> motioned and second that we

approve pln-mjdp-18-83 as amend ed with the nine revised

conditions by staff.

Any other discussion on the motion?

If not please vote when it comes up on your scriens.

>> and finally I move for

approval of the waivers for the

street system the geometric

waiver and determination waiver

and adding the recommended moved and seconded at that time we

approve the termination waiver along the geometric waivers with

the conditions by staff with the addition of the recommendation

with the easement language being sufficient to provide the

government's full ability to meet all operational and

maintenance requirements on the public streets any other

discussion on the motion? If not please vote when it comes

up on your screens does anyone

need a break. Okay.

We'll take a five minute break

and then be right back with you. We still have a few other items

on the agenda.

The next is page 8, southern and jones properties.

This is a park lot. If we are ready to start this

these proceedings. >> Mr. Chairman members of the

planning commission if you will

autoy turn to page 8 item 3 a pln-mar-18-00026.

Southern and jones properties

llc.

I have passed around 25 letters of opposition and three letters

of support. You'll note on one of the pages

of opposition there is both opposition and support, a

household was divided in this. See so you will autoy see that

is a mix. I've noted that on the page.

There is also a letter and presentation from the represent

ative of the group. You will see that in the front of the packet.

>> you are telling me that there

is one household where and on one side and the other on the other side.

Do we have a priest available? [Laughter]

>> he already left.

>> so this is pln-mar-1826. The applicant is seeking a zone

change from single family

residential r-1c zone to r-3

zone for.525 net located at 1847 nicholasville road.

The petitioner proposed a rezon ing to the planned

neighborhood residential r-3

zone to construct eight

townhouse dwelling units at a

residential density of 10.85

units per acre. The petitioner has requested a

zone change from the r-1c to the

r-3 located at the intersection

of nicholasville road U.S. 27

and penmoken park.

It is an arterial roadway.

Peak hours of traffic flow they

utilize various lanes.

Nicholasville road experiences 33,000 plus trips and it serves

as a major commuter corridor for

the lexington fayette urban county.

Pen motor vehiclen forms penmoken.

There is an egress and ingress. You can't quite see it on this

one but on here it's that kind

of double line right there. It is bound with residential

with the exception of r-2 zone located in the northeast of the

subject property all residential units are located within the

single family r-1c zone. Historically this area has been

zoned for single family

residential as an aspect that

has been proposed to continue

with this development it is important to note that the

property is currently non-

conforming use in this zone boarding houses were removed

from single family residential zones across the board connected

to issues regarding the

definition of family.

This is just your aerial view of

the property.

It is located right at that intersection.

Keep the pattern in mind the gray and blue leans will come up

shortly. This is just the view of the

site itself looking across nicholasville road.

Property is right here. You can see the setback and the

grade change this is the northern edge of the property

into the PROPERTYth. And then looking back towards

nicholasville road I also wanted

to show the setbacks off of

penmoken looking down penmoken park.

Here we have opposing the

structures looking down penmoken

park here as well.

When looking at the lighting pattern, staff observes

historical pattern whereby the subject property is more context

ually associated with those properties along nicholas

ville road exemplifying large lots with larger structure s much the introduction

of smaller single family lots

are more in context with the lot ting pattern along pen moment

en and adjacent streets.

while also allowing for greater

density along the major arterial

roadway.

This is an over view again.

The petition opines the zone change is consistent with the

2013 comprehensive plan and

adopted goals and objectives of the 2018 comprehensive plan as

it adds to the density of hous ing within lexington while

supporting the maintenance of the urban service boundary.

Petitioner indicates the rezon ing of the site will

accommodate the demand for hous

ing in lexington responsibly prioritizing higher density and

a mixture of housing types. Proposed development supports in

fill and redevelopment throughout the urban service

area. In addition through the

incorporation of single family

townhouse residential along a major arterial corridor, the

applicant is able to add dwelling units to the

neighborhood which will help up

hold the concept this proposal

also promotes the use of under

utilized land in a way that

enhances the existing urban form and the public commitment to

expand options for mixed house

typing -- mixed type housing.

The staff concurs with the

applicant's justification.

And recommends approval. Your subdivision committee also

recommended approval for this plan. If you have any questions, I'm

here to answer.: >> any questions from the

commission.

>> Mr. Martin will present the

dislan development plan.

S. >> Mr. Chairperson, members of

the planning commission. The preliminary development plan

on the top of page.

Plan p pln-mjdp-18-95 penmoken park. The proposal, as you can see, is

to put eight townhouses on the

lot and here's your nicholas

ville road frontage,

penmoken park frontage in this location.

They had originally proposed to

utilize an access point that was , existing.

This plan has been revised and they've put the access point at

the rear of the property.

This was a very important

concern to staff and to traffic

engineering to try to reduce conflicts in this area with any

stacking and turning movements

from nicholasville road and penmoken park.

You can see that they are proposing, again, in cooperation

with the staff, to set up a potential future connection to

the adjoining property should

they develop to allow for mutual traffic flow between the

properties and that, of course, is designed to deep people from

having to get back out on nicholasville road and back into

the properties 69 it's something that is similar to a lot of park

ing lots that are inter connected.

Just to allow cross movement. The townhouses are approximately

700 squre feet in terms of their lot coverage.

They're three stories. 35 feet in height.

As I stated, there are 18

townhouses and they're proposing 19 bedrooms. The traffic will come in, all

the parking is to the rear of

the proposed townhouses.

One condition that they address

ed early on when they proposed an r-3 zone we asked

them the status of the plan, what is your intent on what type

of development you are going to have?

And that is is it going to be group res education, are you

going to subdivide it, and they subsequently submitted a revised

plan that indicates that they

will subdivide these properties.

And with that, the evaluation of the standards change of course

under r-3 and so they're

evaluating under the r-1 hch t standards. This plan should it move forward

and you approve the zone change, they will need to file with you

for your review a final

development plan and a combination subdivision plan

that would actually create the subdifficult violation -- dub

have I digs and meet the

requirements of the subdivision regs at that time and subdivide

the property should they wish to and of course one of the reasons

it works this that pattern is

that you will subdivide them down the common shared wall of

the townhouses but since they are attached.

This is the infill and re

development area as well.

There are standards for certain design features.

These two are also a requirement

of a final development plan. There is a note on the plan

stating they will comply with those: it's in the ordinance. They have to.

Generally at the time they pull

permit to build, they have to document to building inspection

what features they're going to employ to meet those standards

that are in the ordinance. With that, I mean again it's a

fairly simple plan with the townhouses as you can see or

yepted -- oriented again my big thumb and I hit the wrong button

here we go.

For fronting on penmoken and nicholasville road.

It is hard to see if you look on

your screen, there is a reserv ation here.

Indicate add cross the front.

This area indicates a potential

expansion of nick lasesville road.

And that's from the 2040

transportation plan that our transportation section developed

and was a party to and again

it's a 2040 plan and it's just what it sounds like.

It's a plan for the future. As we grow, as traffic increases

, one of the recommendations of the plan is

that you provide a rapid transit lane.

And those things can take various forms but that was one

of the reasons staff requested it.

They acknowledge that on this

plan so there is a little area. They're cooperating in that

regard to help facilitate that

lan should it ever come to fruition: with that, I would

add that your subdivision committee has recommended

approval of this plan, condition

number 7 which says discuss

access to penmoken park could be removed since they've moved it

to the rear of the property per

staff's recommendation. I'll be happy to answer any

questions you May have.

>> questions for Mr. Martin.

We'll get to you. Promise.

Amp cant. >> Mr. Chairman and members of

the commission, I'm bruce

simpson here on behalf of the

applicant.

David jones is the principal of

the llc that filed this zone map amendment request and if we

could go back to the slide last

one he had up there with the

development plan.

A little bit of background first off.

David has owned this property

since about 2005.

And he called me back in the summer and indicated he had been

following the comprehensive plan

and particularly with respect to

the increase in density recommendations that have been

discussed many times, of course

it was also part of the 2013

comprehensive plan and was curious about what were the

development options he might be able to pursue with respect to

this large lot that is on the

corner of penmoken and nicholas ville road.

So as a typical protocol, when a

client calls for something like that, I suggest that we meet

with the planning staff,goat

their take on it, see what they recommend, see if there are any

issues or concerns that that we

need to be apprised about, to

make a decision whether to keep

on paying me or keep on paying an engineer and if there is

anything worthwhile that might

be pursued in connection with

the redevelopment of this

property.

So we had a couple meetings with the planning staff. We were favorably encouraged, particularly with respect to increasing density at this location because it was expressed to us that the staff

wanted to see increased in density along nicholasville road

a major arterial which this isn't the first time I've

received that recommendation

from the staff and it's become

more and more ingrained in almost every zone change that

I've been involved in the last

three years. Those that participate in this

city is that we do not want to expand the urban service

boundary until it is absolutely

necessary and you better

demonstrate compelling evidence to justify that expansion.

It has not been expanded since

1996 to any extent whatsoever, 22 years. We've been dealing with the same

amount of land.

And so typically in the past,

before '96, developers wouldn't even look at this property for

redevelopment because what we see today.

People don't want change with respect to this house and the

way it's functioned for many,

many years.

But the policy's changed and

we've had to change with it and clearly the message to people

that want to do development in

this community is density is a good thing.

Make it work.

Listen and pay attention but we

want density because the urban service boundary, we do not want

to expand it except as an

absolute last resort.

So the staff, we got every indication they were favorably

disposed to eight townhouses in lieu of the single house that's

there now, which, as hal

mentioned is a non-conforming use.

It is zone r-1c which the

minimum square footage for an r-1c lot is 8,000 square feet.

This is almost a half acre.

So it's well above the minimum

for an r-1 contract c.

In fact it's well above the next level which is r-1 b which is 15

,000 square feet for a family residential. It has never been a single

family residential for at least the last 50 years.

It has been a rooming house and

I will share with you some

photographs in a minute that

illustrate it's use, but for as

far back as we can find, there were several rooming houses,

tourist homes, they went by different names but it was rooms

to rent and they're typically short-term rentals and they're

all sij will men -- single men.

10 are currently living there. Various lengths of time.

Some short-term, some have lived there a couple of years.

But it's mainly a week to week month to month kind of situation

and it's been going on like this for many, many years, at least

50, if not more.

So that is not a permissible use

in a single family zone.

As hal mentioned that kind of

use is not alone loued but that

kind of use was going on when

this property got zoned in 1969.

So it was grandfathered in.

It became a non-conforming use. It has never been a single family.

It has basically been a 10 unit

apartment building one room and

they share a kitchen and they thrair bathrooms and that's the

way it's operated. David said, you know, I think I

can make a better use of the property.

I'd like to do something really

nice and came up with some conceptual drawings for all

brick town homes. Average price for each of these

units will be about $250,000. I'll have him explain how that

price is arrived at in a little bit. But they're going to be well

appointed with a lot of nice

amenities and it's primarily designed to serve the

professional community, medical community near central baptist,

which is about 160 yards away

from this site. And the university of kentucky

which is less than a mile away

so there will be really nice homes, oriented toward

newsmakers lasville road and

four towards penmoken but it's right on the corner so they will

be exiting on nicholasville road

and coming back off nicholas

ville road all the time.

Before we filed the zone change,

we met, sent out a letter to all the people to get legal notice

of a zone change. We wanted to introduce them to

the concept before we even filed

it and so we had a meeting back in September and shared with

them our design and what we were

growing to do with respect to the zone change that would be

filed about six weeks later and

we did file it about six weeks later.

I will say the reaction was not favorable, which is why a lot of

folks are down here today. They much prefer the house

remain as it is. They expressed concerns which

I'm sure you'll hear today about increased traffic from the eight

townhouses compared to the 10

room boarding facility. There were several objections to

our proposed design of the town homes.

We explained that these, the

design was conceptual at this

point because we wanted to show

how conceptually what we were at least thinking about in terms of

these all brick town homes would

fit in along the nicholasville road corridor.

I will show pictures in a moment

of similar kinds of structures,

although I will contend ours are much nicer.

Right across the street on nicholasville road these are in

your material there, but right

over here about 128 feet away, I think they're duplexed but they

could be town homes they face

nicholasville road.

And then there are a couple

right off the corner of johnston

and nickelodeon wroa want

ed to have something nice. We didn't want to hurt anybody in the neighborhood with respect

to what we were going to do. And we proceeded to file the

zone change.

We had several meetings with the staff alorchg the way and went

to the technical review committee and we got approval there.

Went to the subdivision

committee and got approval there went to the zoning committee and

got approval there.

There was never any... No one ever showed up at any of those

meetings to offer any opposition but obvious obviously they're

here today as is certainly their

right, to express their what I expect to be their opposition to

our proposal. And that's understandable

because I have been doing this a

while and I understand that increasing density, tearing down

a house even though it's a non-

conforming use, has never been used as a single family

house for more than half a

century, it has been a glorified

apt build apartment building inappropriately used in terms of

the zoning anyway and we are

proposing to pay attention to the comprehensive plan that you

adopted in 2013 and the goals and objectives that you all

adopted for the 2018 plan understand we have to take

advantage of opportunities when they arise but in the same

respect, it has to fit in so we

have done our best at this point

to try to fit in eight town home

s, they're two stories above

ground, one story below ground. Two car garage.

So you won't have a sea of park ing out there.

Maybe parking, you you know, if

there are two people living there, they will be in the

garage. Which is fairly unusual for town

homes because you see a lot of

them that don't have a garage. These will be underground park

ing and screened with wooden eight-foot fence and 10-foot

ever green trees or ever green

trees every 10 feet on center. 20 match up with a fence so it

will be a nice complementary landscaping feature and we are

certainly open to enhancing that if necessary.

And with respect to the design,

we share with the neighbors when we met with them in September.

This was our proposal. The staff never gave us any

negative feedback about it.

Tom indicated hal they believe

conceptually it fits in with the

infill and redevelopment guidelines at this point but

it's a platform development plan

we are certainly open as I said

we share with the neighbors in September to looking at

alternative design but we haven't received any as yet.

Nevertheless should you all approve this and the couple

approved it, when it comes back for the final development plan,

we're still open for alternative

designs to see what would fit better than what we have come up with.

This is a substantial investment on the part of david jones and

we want to make it a top shelf development and we want the

neighborhood to like it.

We are not there yet but we are certainly willing to make adjust

ments in terms of landscaping, in terms of looking

at alternative design to make it work.

The next slides now put mine on

the overhead there.

This is the subject property

right here.

The next slide you see the stone wall that will be maintained and

kept as part of the project. And the next slide is you can

see where it says rooms that's

been there for probably 50 years

or longer.

And the next one this is the parking lot.

Actually when you develop the whole site with the town homes

and the parking, p the amount of impervious area isn't going to be appreciably much more than

what is already there counting

the lot with the house and the

parking and the next slide. One more time.

This is rose mobt garden.

Hal mentioned penmoken park is a long cul-de-sac street but this

is a safety valve off rosemont garden. It's like one lane and the

incomes slide shows that so

there is the opportunity to in degrees and egress.

You can flip that over one more

time.

Rosemont garden has a light and

pen moaningen park does not.

Hype hype penmoken park does not

the next one.

Duplexes or townhouses 128 feet away from our property on the

other side of nicolasville road

we looked at ashed said we match

up with that because this

property orients towards

nicolasville road as opposed to penmoken.

A couple town homes or duplexes

on johnston right close to the

corner of nicolasville road. 190 feet away and the next one

to it is a little bit further

away from our property. 240 feet away.

These are primarily brick. Parking in the rear.

No garages. And then the next series of

slides, this is not showing up because of the light but in the

handout material are the proposed design that we shared

with the neighbors.

This is painted brick, was kind of a concept that the person we

utilized to come up with the design, it's all brick but some

of it is painted brick. Around the edges.

They're all two and three

bedrooms with two car garage. We believe, I mean this is one

of these cases where the test is on you guys, you are either

going to approve more density on

the arterials or you are not.

And if you are not, you know,

we'll stick with the rooming

house and there won't be any density.

We think we've got a good alternative that's worth

exploring if there is design features that need to be examin

ed, as I say, we are will ing to explore those.

I highlighted several fixtures

and these are policies in the

comprehensive plan that support our application.

I've highlighted several section s. In yellow they talk about

increasing density and also

being sensitive to the as built environment in tomorrows of

context sensitivity.

And this being a preliminary development plan we are not

exactly to the final plan stage

to see what our design will be

but we believe we've shown

enough good faith efforts to

warrant approval going forward with the recognition and

understanding that the final development plan is going to be

another level of review with

respect to approval of this development process.

So we think these policies under

score the application you

all approved a somewhat similar rezoning in March of this year

on tates creek road this is of course a different arterial.

it's one of the most highly

trafficked in fayette county I

want to have david come up and

share with you his thoughts, he has been involved with a lot of

home construction, he manages a lot of property in lexington, to

share with you had is thoughts

and ideas and aspirations with respect to how this property

will function, what his

intentions are in terms of of

how he intends to be a

contribute oar factor contribute

tory factor.

I do care how we develop this.

I grew up right off jesselin drive, about two blocks away,

half mile away from there and in the next few years I'm going to

be moving back to that

neighborhood so I do care.

Projects like this I'm a for profit business.

Certain costs are fixed. The land cost, the legal process

, the engineers, getting

through this process, the infrastructure. Those don't change whether you

have one unit or 50, so from a purely economic standpoint, I

would look at a project like

this and say what's the highest zoning, what is the most number

of units. But having owned this 13 years,

I've come to be able to look and see how the nicolasville road

corridor May or May not have expanded and how other major

arteries in lexington have expanded. I've watched this community make

the decision, 72%, you know, in late 2017 decided that we want

to protect our horse farms.

We don't want to expand the urban service boundary. We agreed as a community, we

want higher density.

We want inward and upward, not outward.

So 10 years ago I might have

looked at this project differently than today. But I look at the area and I see

precedent for this. I see townhouses across the

street on johnston boulevard. I see an opportunity to get

eight homeowners in this

property, in my vision less than 500 yards. Walkable to central baptist

hospital, a mile from the U.K. Medical center.

There are probably 10 to 15,000

people employed between both of those systems and I think this

is an opportunity for eight new

homeowners to come into this neighborhood.

What we envision is going to be

an asset and improvement to not just this neighborhood but the

entire nicolasville road corridor. We are all familiar with nicolasville road.

There are a lot of older properties there and this is one

of them. It's tough to do, you know, it's

tough to do a single single family road on nicolasville road

nobody wants to deal with the traffic.

We see something that is in

between high density apartments but high enough density to make

it financially viable.

Is all brick townhouses we

envision around a $250,000 sale price.

1500 or 1600 square feet on the two floors that are above ground

you'll have a full basement for two car garage in the basement

as well.

we've softened the approach the streetscape from the street.

We did pass out some color rend erings and I want to make

very, very clear that these were

just these are not even done by

an architect, just preliminary renderings.

The reason we do that, I did see what vision I have in my mind

for this project but no one else can because we are look looking

at a two dimensional piece of paper.

This is just to get an idea what

the streetscape might look like.

We have heard a little bit in our initial meeting four or five

months ago that some people were

unhappy with the arc tech actual  -- architectural style and

people think the neighborhood deserves a craftsman style.

I'm perfectly open to do that.

We haven't engaged an architect. Architects are expensive and

we've changed the size and layout of this project probably

a dozen times working with plan

ning, working with traffic.

I can't afford to draw new plans every time we do that.

No one does that.

I'm hope to feedback as Mr. Simple simpson said.

We had a meeting with the neighborhood. Courtesy meeting several months ago.

We had two public meetings with

the zoning subcommittee and subdivision zoning committee.

Nobody showed up to those. We shared our contact

information at the first meeting we said if you have questions or

comments or suggestions please

reach out to us and we haven't received that. This is not the first project

like this that I've done and the

ones that always work the best are whether the neighborhoods

and yes I understand people are opposed to any change sometimes

and I understand that.

That's a natural human nature but these projects that work out

best are when the neighborhood% and neighbors engage everyone

and engage myself as a developer and, you know, we work out

something that we can both live

with and someone said at the other thing, both sides leave

with a little heart burn that means it's successful.

But we still remain open this is a project I'm looking forward to

doing. It will provide much needed

housing and I don't mean to say

it's affordable housing but in an affordable price point for many people.

We are not proposing mansions or $500,000 houses.

And I think this will be a good addition to a corridor that

desperately needs it.

So any questions, if you have

them, I'm happy to answer. >> thank you.

Are you ready for any questions.

>> a couple items in the handout material, Mr. Chairman and

members of the commission. If you'll look under tab number

3, one of the concerns that the neighbors expressed when we met

with them is that this proposal

that we are sharing with you would devalue their property and

we wanted to make sure that we took the appropriate steps to

understand the value of their property and what we were going

to do and to let them know, as

we've waited you are our average

starting price would be did $ 250,000 for the town holes.

Tab number 3, we listed all the

average pva assessed value with

respect to the houses on

penmoken ashed the square foot age.

It is zoned r-1c, too but hate has a minimum square authority

of eight,000 square feet.

The average lot on penmoken is,

as you can see under tab 3, 7500 square feet.

So the lots on penmoken don't conform on the average to most

of them anyway to the r-1c designation.

And this is because in '69 there was county wide zoning, they

zoned the entire county at one time.

They didn't go in and pay

attention to do tail, and put the rurp December I go na ition

on power property and the rest of pen penmoken without looking

to see whether or not they had

the eight,000 square feet or not

those are non-conforming lots

for the most part. We are not going to put

something in there that would devalue the property in term

limits of a lower sale price

than what their homes have been assessed and likewise we looked

at all the property from penmoken to goodrich to both

sides of nicolasville road, average price for the property

is $238,000: the lots are very

big compared to what is on penmoken. The average lot on nicolasville

road from penmoken down to good

rich, 17,than 0 square feet. Ours is almost a half acre.

There are some that are even

larger than that. We mentioned this is a non-

conforming use and you have to understand this is an

important governmental policy that's codified into the zoning

ordinance. In other words, it's the law as

opposed to the dplan which is a recommendation but the ordinance

with respect to non-conforming

uses like ours is pretty straightforward and if you look

under 4.2, hive highlighted it for you.

The intent of the zoning

ordinance to permit non conformities established in

article 4.1, which is this

article, to continue until they

are removed but, and this is the

important part, but not to encourage their survival.

So the policy is to get rid of

non-conforming uses because they don't comply with the zoning

ordinance and it makes difficult

enforcement and our proposal

will follow this by eliminating

a non-conforming use and make it compliant with the zoning

ordinance.

The last section one of the few

email doarms I don't know Mr. Henson but he sent an

email in that I thought was very pertinent where he said I just

wanted to let you know that not

every resident of the area is against the development.

I believe lexington is a growing

city and growing cities need density on major roads and

public transit routes this area

of lexington is ideal for university of kentucky employees

such as myself.

I can easily walk, bike or take

a bus to the largest employer in

the county lextran route 5 provides access to the downtown core.

I really hope that the planning commission prioritizes infill

along the major roads including

nicolasville road. Which is what we are trying to

do. This is the recommendation we received from the staff. The recommendation that is in the 2013 and 2018 comprehensive plan and based on all of that,

we would ask for your approval.

Be happy to respond to any

questions.

>> any questions for Mr. Simpson? Okay. Thank you.

Now it's time for citizen

participation.

If you'll line up, we'll get to the people who object a little

bit later.

Do you all have a representative >> my comment is the comment read into the record.

I just wanted to say that I recently looked throug the comprehensive plan for the city

of lexington posted in the facebook page for the

neighborhood and it was striking how this project really fits

into that comprehensive plan.

I've been I'm a graduate student at the university of kentucky

and have been in conferences around the country and having a

dense city makes cities better,

having density along the public transit route promotes the use

of the public transit route so I really think that as a city we

should invest in having density

on the urban corridors, invest

in having a city where people live in places where they can

access the university of kentucky, where they can access

the downtown area and the way we do that is have people live on

the major roads and provide good public transit to get people

from where they live to where they can do jobs.

That's why I support this development.

>> thank you. I own the property two doors

down at 1855 nicolasville road. And I would just like to

congratulate Mr. Jones on a home run development plan.

It's a beautiful projec.

We are taking down an eye sore,

a danger zone with transient

people staying in rooms.

We are improving with $2 million project of all brick

construction town home project

that has been recommended by our

lexington board, our lexington

staff, you know, the zoning committee recommended it.

And of course the subdivision committee recommended it.

I respect their knowledge this

this area and the development project this meets the

comprehensive plan for infill.

It's a beautiful project it will

be a great improvement and enhance my property and the city

and I have been a realtor for 40 years in this community and you

can't buy much anymore for $250 but this will give opportunity

within walking distance to to

the big employers big venues. I own the property two doors

down.

Have owned it since 1985. I've lived there for 20 years on

nicolasville road now I have it leased to a football assistant

coach so we are right within 50

yards of this project I

represent the neighborhood we

call pens cola pensacola and this is a group of citizens that

are really concerned about the development.

Many wanted to be here today but since it was at least started at

1:30 on a thursday, many people couldn't make it.

I don't know if we all realized it would go into the after work

hours but also for that reason

I'll try to keep myself under reasonable timeframe.

I know you have all been here

and listening to a lot of peek

people speak. The residents here on the one

hand very concerned that a 93 -year-old home that's over

4500 square feet is being demolished in favor of a

development that is poor design and doesn't fit with the

comprehensive plan. Now you've just heard from a

couple residents, one of whom is , I guess both of whom are in

favor of this development but

one of whom frankly stands to

benefit down the road financial ly. As you'll notice on the site

plan, and especially the one submitted on the tenth of

December, there is a future connection allowed for on the

site plan that will connect presumably to a future

development on a neighboring

property he would be the next property over.

I'm sure he is seeing this could

become just a row of town homes but that's very concerning to

the residents in the area. And with respect to the zoning

change, there have been some

changes in the plan that was submitted on the day we submit

ted our response which was

the tenth they submitted an update so there are some

differences and I see there are

some recommendations for changes

by the subdivision committee, but most importantly with the

zoning, it doesn't clearly meet

r-3, r-1-t or article 15 from reading the text of the articles

, applicable to this property.

And I guess to clear up there hasn't necessarily been a back

of input from the citizenry regarding the change in zoning.

The neighborhood was told. Your opportunity to come and

have your voice heard is going

to be this meeting today.

Furthermore there were people at the subdivision committee and

zoning committee who were representing us so there has

been no lack of input on our part.

Specifically with the zone, I

don't know how to word this I should mention how we see this

project not meeting the A.M.

Applicable sewn zoning regulations are in pages, it

starts on the bottom of page 4

and goes through page 7 of our response. This figure is meant to show you

with the highlighting that it

doesn't meet clearly any one

plan and the -- any one article

and the main issue it has to do

with setbacks this is an old neighborhood.

It's a lot of homes that were ranging from 1920 all the way up

to mostly 1930s and 40s.

The setbacks along nicolasville

road, as you can see, are

significant. Any development is 20 feet and

this was also attached to my

response the regulations with respect to the setbacks show you

this is not conforming to the surrounding neighborhood.

it's not appropriate for single family neighborhood that has

been there for nearly a century and it's a very successful neighborhood.

It's a real jewel of lexington

that has a lot of these crafts

men bunk lows and bungalow s.

The design as it stands has no

real contextual sensitivity down

nicolasville road or penmoken. While the residents are concern

ed about tearing down a 93-year-old home, I don't think

anyone here will tell you they're absolutely 100% against

development for the sake of

being against development the point is if there is going to be

development that takes out a

home like this, it should fit

the comprehensive plan and use

smart design and should employ an architect on the project

which we've heard and knew has

not been involved until now and the presentation so far makes it

seem like it is not a thought

out site plan.

Goals two and three.

We talk about the comprehensive plan indepth.

So these proposed town homes are

going to remove a house that's stood there this neighborhood

has flourished because of things

like the setback and because of

things like it houses 10 people

and this is going to displace 10

people and what we get for it is approximately and this is accord

ing to an old site plan is 370 more square feet and maybe

assuming full occupancy nine more people, eight more people

and it's displacing 10 so in

terms of it propose motoring high density it's not clear how

this is going to further that high density plan and it comes

at great cost because we are tearing down this home and

because instead of trying to

rehabilitate an existing

property, we are building a

totally new footprint which also the comprehensive plan talks

about environmental sustain ability.

That's not very environmentally sustainable.

There are other options to do with this house for one.

The house could be rehabilitated I have a specialist who is going

to talk a little bit more about that and show examples but it

can be reabled and get to the

point where it meets almost the

same level of occupancy that

these proposed town homes will the developments like this one

on mitchell avenue, you start to see some difficult lap days.

You have the crooked columns,

brick walls crumbling, hardscape inconsistent.

Drastic slopes that's not A.D.A. Compliant hand rail.

There are also issues with drain age, which, in this

particular area on 1847 nicolasville road there are

drainage mitigation issues and I see the subdivision committee

has requested more information

on what they're going to do with to accommodate the sanitary

sewers and storm sewers on the last one to the right, you can

see how the town homes on mitchell avenue completely

destroy the fabric of the neighborhood.

We've got two story town home there right next to a privacy

fence and then eye home and some sort of industrial maybe like a

water pump or something there.

but as you can see on the bottom

half of the slide, the town homes that are proposed look

just like the tates creek town

homes, just like the mitchell avenue town homes.

We've heard a lot about we were

trying to meet what they did on johnston. Those are town homes from the 90

s. I think that we would all like

to think that we've progressed

in terms of design since the 1990s.

And furthermore, the

comprehensive plan is a forward we shouldn't be looking back at

what has been done. It should meet the fabric of the

neighborhood and the comprehensive plan.

This point was clarified but

it's not clearly adding any affordable housing.

They're priced to sell at a

minimum of $250,000. There is reason to believe that

that won't be the case and these

will be renter occupied because other developments are renter occupied.

The johnston town homes are rent er occupied.

But this, the price point of

$250,000 is about $180 per square foot.

That is far above the median average home value for the area

so we are not adding affordable housing.

On a related note you are not adding any accessible housing or

housing for the elderly because these are all multistory town

homes that are accessible by stairs and briefly this was

mentioned when you saw pictures of sophia alley but the resident

s are very concerned about the traffic burden these

town homes will create penmoken is a cul-de-sac.

Far down on the other side is a

one way alley with homes on

either side very close with out

lets to rosemont garden it's

not like that alley is an alternate street.

It's not very wide and there has been no track study that we've

seen on the impact of these town

homes we are asking that you delay approval until we have the

opportunity to create a small area comprehensive plan so that

the neighborhood can weigh in on

what is appropriate design. There is no evidence the

neighborhood was offered this

option and we request design elements that the proposed

developer must meet to ensure it's appropriate to the

neighborhood and contextually sensitive and we've asked that

they have bring an architect on

board who can make sure that the site.

To do a site plan feasibility

study and including water

mitigation, how the garages are

going to work and also a form

height slope study and soil

studies I see on the subdivision committee a tree plan has been

requested that was one of our

request but it looks like we are

in agreement there are a lot of options that could be done with the property.

I'll let something with more training in architecture show

you a couple of options on the

slides my nape is jessica I'm an

architect and we happen to live

in the pensacola park neighborhood. This came to our attention

because the lawyer put out the submission of 500 feet which we

happen to be on and I live on nicolasville road so I'm one of

those people that moved to lexington, bought a home and

renovated it and put a lot of money towards it to enhance it

because I actually love our neighborhood.

A lot of people say why live on nicolasville road well I used to

live in L.A. So I'm kind of used to traffic.

But with that said I'm also

really used to what is incorrect when you do infill and re

development. I've read the comprehensive plan thoroughly.

I was energized because I think there is stuff on there that is

very important.

Very important to progress

lexington there are a lot of things I see that are great for

growth but the idea that we need to dense phi without looking at

what is appropriate.

And in the comprehensive plan it clearly states that we should

look at our existing neighborhoods and make sure that

things are appropriate developed

. Thr things that the have not

been investigated. As you can see this the slide I

show, the yellow line around it is the existing property.

If we were going to take this and my stance on this personally

being an ash tect is that the I

do think that development is important but I think it it has

to be appropriate in this case

since we are I a historic neighborhood, pensacola park is

one of the more north carolina

neighborhoods of lexington.

About 95% are pre-1945 homes, so we are asking is there a way

that we can either integrate

this... I don't think it should

be an indicator that we should

abandon all design reason or densification and say we must

develop just because it says

here we just develop it's very important that we treat our

corridors as being just as approachable as the rest of

everything else.

We've heard about saving the urban boundary and while I agree

with that, we have to realize there is an identity to

lexington that we they'd to go to.

There is an identity marketers

that you go to and that is historic homes.

So when you are driving down

richmond, for example, which is almost as busy drive as nicolasville road is.

You have a very different

experience of that than other

roads so on nicolasville road we

are the small pocket between

southland and going up toward penmoken that we are residential

why do we have to densify it and change the identity of this?

That's one docket.

And if we have to change the

identity of it can we be progris sive enough where we are

identifying this more for people so people drive down

nicolasville road and they don't

feel, what is the word, uncomfortable because if you look at the plan he showed, you

are pushing the pedestrian right

up against the road so this idea

that we want to redefine our boundaries that we have public

transportation that we have alternate transportation,

bicycle routes and pedestrian, how is it that we are allowing

developments that come in that don't address the pedestrian

either from a neighborhood

standpoint or from a walk and

standpoint on any of these ideas setbacks are incredibly

important to these types of

neighborhoods and to the borders

and nicolasville road corridors

no one walks on veer sigh and we

are versailles. We have infill to death and push

ed everything to the edge of the street.

So going back to this, the

question is can we maintain this

we said heck not afford to rehabilitate this and that's why

we've asked for an architect to

come on board and a feasibility study. What we have seen with the

previous construction is the

same construction over and offer

again cookie cutter design and developer. I don't want that identity com

ing up on the road and being presented like that.

I want the unique these to show up.

So then can somebody do a feasibility study to show in

fact why couldn't we rehabilitate that? The neighborhood is not against

development as you will hear from a lot of them but they are

for appropriateness. Appropriateness would have been

can we firstly maintain the existing home.

Secondly how do we minimize the impact of that home on the

neighborhood.

And then thirdly, if we can't

maintain it, can we progress it enough to be a jewel for the neighborhood.

that's not a dilapidated house.

That's a beautiful craftsman home. Whether you like historic homes

or not, changing to that on the top left whether or not that is

going to be final design, which more than likely it will be one

of those, is a great loss to

lexington and we have to remember there are identity mark ers in lexington that need

to be saved and if we can't do rehabilitation, can we do

progression? And this is a slide where, it

might be a little progressive for some people but the idea is

that these are all historic

homes, all rehabilitated successfully and not homes,

they're all town homes.

So these are all multifamily

units and it is a way that has pushed architecture forward.

Another topic that came up from Mr. Jones is he can't afford

to do something creative or that

he has done something very high end.

What he has proposed for the neighborhood that has come out

of his lawyer's office and said

up here where he cannot afford an architet to design, what you

get is cookie cutter. If he had brought on an

architect from the very beginning, you would have had

progressive thought, a feasibility study he could have

brought up and I hate to say it,

but I do think there is some lying that is happening about

selling these homes because from a construction standpoint, if

you run through the numbers,

what he is proposing, he cannot sell those homes and make a profit.

he will rent these.

It's a very different ideology than he is selling to you and I

can tell you from a professional standpoint, I've run the numbers

what he should be doing and this is why an architect should have

been brought on is hooey should be thinking about progressive

architecture if he wants to do town homes like these three.

The top one, they're down homes built in philadelphia and they

were built in a historic neighborhood.

And they also will get that developer, there is only five of

them on the same lot size that

david jones is doing, will go it

them $740,000 for each one but that is considered high end

development. It's high end use of materials,

high end use of interior spaces.

The people have spaces to go outside, which is not the case in this one.

They have a balcony. So there is thought when

architects go it involved of how

you integrate into the space.

P and the second one is a living

space that was done and these

people got $375 for a smaller

unit and 1.1 million for a larger unit. That is a very successful

development in england and it

also is an adaptable sustainable development.

We hear in the comprehensive plan about sustainability.

I have not seen one thing come

from david jones about sustain bility. It is important that you look

these projects and realities

that just approving infill and redevelopment can open up a wide

range of bad development and

there is no going back from that it is important that we have

professionals look these things over.

It is important that an

architect be involved in a multi-residential project.

And then the last one and I'll

be done soon is that last one,

you know, them implementing that into their project.

And what we've heard from david jones and his lawyer is what

they've looked at 1990 homes. And they've tried to replicate that?

When they have over 417 homes in

the pensacola park that could

have pulled from there has been nothing to push there forward

except to give him a green light

and then what. Then it's too late.

So I would ask that you please

at least pause this and think of a small comprehensive plan to

our area or at least ask him to

bring on a professional to show that he can actually develop

this and not just cookie cutter it. Thank you. >>

[Applause] >> I indicated if you had a

question, if you want to pose it now, this is a good time to do it.

If you had a question that you

wanted... You can get in line

right behind her if you would like.

>> I had a brief question.

>> your name please ma'am. Your name and address.

>> I have to stand on my tip toe s.

I am jodi mckee and I thank you for your time today.

I live at 128 penmoken park and

i have lived there for 44 years.

We are a diverse neighborhood of modest closely spaced homes

separated by narrow driveways.

Most of our homes are single

story with a detached garage and

almost all are over 50 years old

my own home was built in 1923 and it's 95 years old.

I am opposed to the demand demolition and rezoning of the

property at 1847 nicolasville road because it sets in motion

the erosion of the fabric of our neighborhood.

We are historically a dead end

street you know we awe slides of

the sophia alley some of us like

to call it a lane, not an alley.

That was someone's driveway

really initially that frosty lived on that street and she

allowed us to use her driveway

to get over to rosemont just to avoid traffic.

It was little used except by residents until a couple years ago.

I'm not sure why the city put up a street sign.

It was never labeled before. Never had a street sign at all

but a few years ago the city put

up the sophia alley on either end of it which alerted people

on rosemont to know that it was there and they could use it and cut through.

We saw a big increase in traffic

because of that street sign as

far as I know, nobody has an address that the U.S. Post

office needs to use it as an address. I don't know why it has been

labeled but it has and we notic

ed a big increase in

traffic from that.

We are a pedestrian friend will I street where you frequently

see folks of all ages walking, sometimes with a dog, sometimes

with a baby carriage, sometimes

with a two wheeler with training wheels.

Because we have limited open

space and are not near a park in

spring and summer you see folks

in the street throwing a

softball or frisbee, sometimes nine and 10 yearolds set up a

basketball hoop at the edge of

the curb and practice their free throws.

When we hear that a traffic

study has indicated that

penmoken sees 700 cars a day and

can accommodate 300 more per day , we only shake our head and

realize the traffic engineers

don't know how neighborhood. We live here and if you live

here you know that cats, dogs, parents and children and seniors

use our street and we know to

slow down, to smile and to wave when we add traffic that cuts

through our street to avoid the light at nicolasville road and

rose mopt garden we add a stress

or that is not only

dangerous for us but corrosive to the harmony of our

neighborhood.

Our homes on penmoken all face

the street and most have generous front porches and well

tended yards often with flower gardens.

The proposed townhouses to

replace an existing 93-year-old rooming house, to are me,

doesn't quite smell -- doesn't pass the smell teft.

We have been told that the eight

three bedroom townhouse units

will be sold but a similar

townhouse project on mitchell avenue is all rentals.

We have been assured the

materials will not be vinyl sid ing but quality material but

the similar project on mitchell

avenue includes vinyl siding and materials that haven't been

passing the test of time. Already starting to show signs

of wear. Part of the charm is the human

scale of our homes and especially our front porches.

If you have lived in a community

with front porches, you know the

value they add and the promotion

of neighborliness.

The townhouse project is a multi story multiunit development

that lacks scale and porches and

is incentive to its neighbors.

Without any leverage over the architectural consideration, we

have concern over the compatibility of the design to

our existing neighborhoods.

I've got my wrong glasses on.

I believe that infill is a priority and has become a trend

ing topic for planning in lexington.

But can we just throw down a bit and -- slow down and look at the

big picture, maybe see what is

happening with other sectors. Conventional resale stores are

taking a beating. My daughter this christmas when

I asked her what she wanted to for christmas, she said mom, I

don't want anymore stuff. So we, instead of giving each

other gifts for things, we are

going to go see martin and

martin at the rupp arena in

January. Online shopping continues to

increase and the younger generation like my daughter have

been embracing more mip malist type lifestyles.

Shopping centers like fayette mall are going to have to re

invent themselves. Already there are store fronts

that lie empty.

Why not multistory multiunit housing at the fayette mall site

there is no existing neighborhood to infringe on.

It's close to restaurants, close

to a bus line.

Close to the movies. Turfland maul has been talking about that.

I don't know the progress or

status of that project but

they're not invading an existing

neighborhood. There is vacant store front in

many prime locations, a large rite aid store not far from our

neighborhood closed recently and

is presently unoccupied. I understand and know that not

all of the unoccupied store

fronts are necessarily appropriate for residential development but the whole world of retail is reinventing itself

and why not wait and see how some of this shakes out before

we infringe on established neighborhoods?

Developers like to develop lexington deserves development

that is thoughtful, and

harmonious. You, the planning commission, if

you have any misgivings at all about this project, please

consider holding off approval at least fo now. Wait and see.

We have over 70 household on penmoken that will be negatively

impacted just on penmoken and of

course there will be more on wabash. When we weigh that against the

net gain of four to six housing units, it just doesn't make a

lot of sense. Thank you for your time. >> thank you.

And ma'am, let me apologize to the rest of you.

We try to put everybody on a three minute timeframe because

have you other neighbors who want to make their presentation

so if you could stay with the three minutes, that would be

helpful.%

and also if your friends have made the point and you just want

to make sure that you are on the record, you can just say I agree

with the preceding speaker and go on.

But whatever.

But let me be clear, we welcome

your comments. >> thank you very much.

My name is jerry gillespie.

I reside at 164 penmoken park. My wife has had that property

for 30 years. I've lived there are for 20 years.

I didn't intentionally -- didn't

intend to ask this question but

martin wanted to know if anybody involved with the project is here today.

I know that legal representation is here now and the developer is

here. I don't know about any engineer

ing staff I think it's important that you all are here

to benefit from the feedback of

residents instead of just the legal representation of the developer.

I agree with everything this

lady just said.

Sophia alley is already quite a

nuisance as far as people cutting through. They speed down our street

causing danger to residents.

it is a one lane alley, it cannot be widened without

demolition of houses on either

side so that's going to be a big problem.

Secondly, I fully realize, Mr.

Jones that business is business.

I've attended two previous meetings, the first one which I

met you at and complimented you for being there in a roomful of

people that were probably going to be opposed to what you were

planning to do.

And I realize that business is business but at that meeting and

again today, you are asking for us to present you with different

options.

I think that's your job as a

developer to present us with

different options.

>> I think it's the developer's responsibility to present different options for

construction, not our responsibility to present

different ideas to a developer and a couple directions.

The first meeting I attended,

you were there and you stated

then and today that the

residents of penmoken park were

notified in advance of this proposal.

At the first meeting it became

clear that the residents within

500 feet of this proposal were notified 245 does not include us

who live at the far end of

penmoken where the cul-de-sac is where sophia alley is.

We will be affected as well

another adepended um for you is

that as far as lot size confirm

ation our house was built in 1926.

The plat for our property which

I obtained from city hall is

from 1926. It has a lot width of 45 feet

and depth of 162 feet, which is

obviously not compliant with the

current zoning laws for lot size

you can't go back 42 years and

change that.

So you are incorrect that

everybody on penmoken park was notified of this proposal.

We were not.

And and I, there are a lot more things I could say but...

>> your time has expired.

>> we are not opposed to

development and infill as long

as it fits with the continuity

of the existing neighborhood.

That being said, as far as rehabilitating that property,

which is occupied by 10 men,

which, today on screen and at the first meeting I accompanied

where you were, Mr. Simpson,

you seem a little bit obsessed

with enforcing the fact that it is 10 men that live there.

I don't really get that.

And I certainly don't have any understanding that there could

be any documentation or

historical evidence that that properties creates a danger zone

for our neighborhood.

I'm sorry foregoing over time. >> thank you.

[Applause] >> I probably live within 500

feet but I did not receive any notification of any meetings

the first I was aware of this

was when the pensacola park preservation society sent out

some things about what was happening.

This was maybe three weeks ago. Maybe a month ago.

So I did not receive any notifications whatsoever.

No written, no flyers in the

mail box, no post at the property that they were meeting that was talking about this

significant situation that was happening right down the road

from me. So I wanted to be very clear

about that.

I want to say we agree with our professional representatives.

I applaud them they provided

some excellent information and I hope that you were able to hear

all of that.

>> I live at 1 7 rosemont garden I purchased that home there with

my family 13 years ago.

It had been repossessed and

abandoned and we poured blood, sweat and tears into that home

to restore it and to improve the neighborhood.

We've watched our other neighbor s do the same. A lot of families in the area

that have spent a lot of time and invested in that

neighborhood, not because they're wanting to resell their

homes right away but because

they wanted to settle down, put down roots and build a neighborhood and I think that

this project is directly antithetical to that ideal and

would be insulting and

discouraging to people who are

pursuing that same goal.

With everyone else here, I very

much the I would hopefully respectfully hope that the

commission would take the advice of our professional represent

atives here today.

>> I grew up sn in the area. I left home and went to

cleveland, ohio and pursued my career in new york city.

And one place I wanted to come

back to was lexington, kentucky

and penmoken park and the entire area. There are young families with

children in addition to wonderful senior citizens and

retirees and they're buying old

homes and fixing them up to the era of the neighborhood and

again, I'm not opposed to re

doing that home but I their we

need to stay to the historical era of the neighborhood.

Thank you. >> this is the second time I

have been in front of this committee.

The first was as an applicant.

My wife and I work in property development.

We think this is a comical

proposal for this neighborhood.

The architectural renderings presented are the blankeddest

thing that -- blankeddest thing

that could possibly be imagined when I stood in front of this

committee and I imagine when m r. Nichols stood in front for

his apartment building up on north limestone, at that time we

were both represented by an architect and as a matter of

fact, every time I've stood in front of a planning and zoning

committee, my architect was in attendance.

My architet developed a site

plan, my architect communitied -- communicated with the community

that we were building. If Mr. Jones doesn't respect

the community enough to build a good project, he should find a

developer that is willing to. This neighborhood, it will not

support the project that he is proposing. Doctors, nurses, all these

medical professionals are going to go buy a single amily house.

they're going have a yard.

They're going to play with their kids like my neighborhood who

renovated their house before

they moved here from michigan. They play on the street, they

run on the street, we all do so

if Mr. Joaps wants to develop

something and wants to develop what his history suggests he

will develop, he is going to be looking for a different client,

not the doctors, not the nurses

a developer could sell good town homes here. As a matter of fact, the

represented pva values discussed are not realistic for the

current sale prices of the homes the house next door to me sold

for nearly $300,000. It's not much bigger than the

town homes he is presenting.

But I guarantee it's a lot better done tearing down things

that are nearly 100 years old,

not respecting our history?

That's how we erase what makes

lexington lexington.

There are a lot of ugly

buildings and a lot of beautiful buildings but that's where the

developer had their feet held to

the fire to do a good project. That didn't just happen because

somebody said I'm going to build something great.

That's consistently the case. If we look at neighborhoods up

in cincinnati, or the pittsburgh proposal from earlier, these are

neighborhoods where somebody was required to do good work and I

suggest you at least ask an architect to look at this.

>> thank you.

[Applause]

>> my name is rebecca glass cock

I have live there had for 25

years. i support infill and re

development. However, I think we should be

very careful to preserve the character and as much as

possible, the history of our city.

The property at issue today,

1847 nicolasville road was once

part of property onopenned by wallace overton when he died in

1827, his property was split among his children.

Later it was part of the farm,

57.85-acre parcel which stretch ed from nicolasville road

back to the railroad track was

sold to louis price in 1900 and

1923 the craftsman house now

occupying the site was built.

A stone wall and number of

mature trees add to the esthetic of the site.

As was said in 1993, the

geography of nowhere "community

is not something you have like pizza.

Nor is it something you can buy. It's a living organism based on

a web of interconnectedness

which is to say a local economy.

It expresses itself physically

as connectedness, buildings actively relating to each other

into what public space exist be

it the street or the chows or the village green."

as a member of the penmoken park community, I ask the zoning not

be approved. I wish to live in a community

with character and history and connectedness.

I do not wish to live in a geography of nowhere where every

place is the same.

[Applause]

My name is michael stance field.

I live on pem motor vehiclen.  -- penmoken.

my in-laws have lived there

since 1967.

I have been married to my wife for 40 years and we have lived

in cleveland, ohio, harrisburg,

p pennsylvania and long boat key florida and have decided to%

settle here. We came here four years ago to

25ic care of her mother who has since passed away.

Purchased the house and my wife said to me, I'm surprised that

you wanted to live here in this little house on penmoken park.

I said I have been looking at this house for 40 years.

We come here for christmas. I said I've been thinking about

what I'm going to do to it when I finally own it.

And in the four years we've been here, we have been trying to

make that house as perfect as it

was the day it was built. We've redone the front porch

period type tile, we have done

everything we can to make the

house as sharp just like chris

is doing and many other neighbor s, in the neighborhood are doing.

They're trying to make those old

houses look like they did back in 1923.

And in a few years, many of those homes are going to be 100

years old I'm striving to get

the neighborhood to look and

live up to it's potential rather

than to... What I've seen are

eight brick block house houses,

very generic and I don't see how

they will fit into the neighborhood. I know we did a traffic study

this year. I saw the police car parked on

the wrong side of the road so

people, when they would see him from the nicolasville road would

make sure they slowed down and

or go another way because we had

actually put in for speed bumps

and they said it wasn't feasible as some of the folks have said,

people walk their pets, there

are older folks who walk bicycl ist, children who play in the streets.

We want to keep that flavor alive.

We understand the development is

an important thing but I just pray that you take the advice of

the professionals that spoke my in-laws are looking down at me

and saying save this neighborhood.

>> barbara and I live at 104 wabash.

My family has lived here for a quarter century.

We chose this neighborhood

because it's safe and close to the shops, drives and restaurant s.

The neighborhood has a nice mix

of single family modestly priced homes with old trees.

It is very safe and walkable.

Speaking of emotional I remember pushing my son, now a graduate

student in a stroller down was

bush -- wabash. We grew up in the neighborhood

and come back to settle and this

cluster would start a chain

reaction of 14r-6789d cookie cut

ter developments we are not against development as many

people pointed out but we are

oppose a project that hurts our neighborhood.

We will welcome a promise that

remodels the current home into a multifamily one with good

architecture.

Thank you.

>> dave alfred, my wife and I re

side at 131 suburban court

just like to say why I empathize

with the commission's intent of having infill redevelopment and

keeping the urban boundary line in tact.

I don't think they intend to

have that as blanket arolf for any mull if I family to be

thrown up anywhere this is one of the oldest neighborhoods in the city.

I mean I think if you look

around, there aren't too many

outside of downtown chevy chase

area that look like this. While I believe the interest of

investments and trying to make a

profit, I myself am a real estate investor, my pa are ther

in corey is here as well.

Last October of 2017 we bought

1828 nicolasville road which is a 1927 single family hope

converted to a mull if I family

unit in the 70s or 80s.

Offer the past 12 months we have dumped well over six figures of

investment into that property to restore it.

I really enjoys earlier when we

first got here the hillenmeyer project you saw.

That was a restoration project. This is a demolition project of

an old home that is not too dilapidated to be restored.

I find it hard to believe.

So anyway I want to voice knew

support of our representatives and strongly urge, I think you

can tell by the people who are

here that there are as very strong objection to this and I

think it's the responsibility of

the commission to to hear these

people.

I live at 120 goodrich avenue.

I want to take a moment to say

that unwake we are not being territorial and possessive that

is not our purpose for being% here and I would like the

council and commission to know

that rebecca talked about how this was a single family home

when it was built.

It was made a boarding house and it doesn't have to remain that

way. Lastly I think when we are going

to allow development into our neighborhoods and we are going

to densify, we do need to make sure they're held to a higher

standard because when we are

allowing just profit to rule the

day, and when we are demolishing

houses and letting profit be the guiding factor for how our

neighborhoods are changing, that is nothing to speak to the

positives of lexington. It's not what we into ed to be doing here.

You know, there are 419 other

residents that bought in to

pensacola park and they need to be protected as well.

I wish I had a dime for every time bruce simpson stood up here

and said we don't want to devalue our house.

I wish I had a dime for every time. If you go back and look at

previous council meetings you'll

see where his predictions of noted devaluing things have not,

that's not been the case. So thank you very much.

I agree with the representation.

>> peggy and I live at 127 penmoken and it is wonderful to

see my neighbors here.

I bought the house on the street in 1985.

I thought I was buying a house to walk to work and I got a

whole family and there are a lot of people who are not here and

the cool thing about penmoken is when I write a check all over

the city because I still write

checks, people always go, penmoken park. I used to live on that street.

I love that street. That's a wonderful neighborhood.

So please pleats, lease listen

to us and don't do this rezoning thing. We have a really good thing

going and if we listen to our professionals and get some good

architects in there, we can keep our little neighborhood the way

it is and it's so important

because we are lexington. This is lexington.

This is what you are looking at. I hope all of your neighborhoods are the same.

Thank you. I wanted to say something about

the 10 men that live at the morgan house.

As far as my understanding has always been that they're very

heavily screened. They're subsidized, low income

gentlemen and some have disabilities.

Few, if any, have cars and so one gentleman I think walks to

kroger every single day and if they get displaced, I don't know

where in the world they will go.

My name is dennis web and I live at 120 suburban court.

I've lived there, my wife and I for 30 years.

First want to read a statement

by linda whitley who had to leave early.

While I am not opposed to infill development in lexington, I am

passionate about the buildings fitting the existing

neighborhood in function and

esthetics there is an irony in that the dennis anderson

proposal looks just about like pensacola park. It's a newer version.

It has a boulevard down the middle and no trees yet.

Other than that it looks about

identical to where we live right now.

Why would you want to mess with

perfection which is kind of was I want to read three statements

that came out of the 2018 plan. Lexington citizens say build

owner occupied higher density multifamily dwellings designed

by architects so these are functional and attractive and

worth owning.

That's straight out of the 2018

comprehensive plan verbatim. This is what lexington citizens

say much this is not eye rate people who live in pensacola

park much these are people across the lexington spectrum.

What makes a successful neighborhood diversity of home

sizes and an architectural identity that reinforces good

design and community engagement.

Lexington citizens say create design standards.

Thank you for your time and I support everything our represent

atives said. I'm a faculty member at the

university of kentucky and I bought on suburban court so

could I walk to work, walk ability as we see in the

comprhensive plan was really important to me as well.

Quickly I realize I could not walk to work because the

sidewalk is 18 inches from nicolasville road and I'm not

going to walk to work.

So I've got to turn left off suburban court. Within our neighborhood, there

are six streets that come out that connect directly to

nicolasville road and only one of those has a red light.

So every morning me and lots of

other people probably 400 of us, attempt to turn left to

nicolasville road.

So traffic is a major issue.

A lot of times I have to wait three light cycles for cherokee

park and rosemont to turn red

just so I can turn left. Traffic is a major issue.

I don't know if there was a traffic study on my end.

I know there was one on the good rich end. Traffic is a major issue for

those of us who live there. We talk about infill but to

densify even more than we are, I

don't know how cars backing up on to our streets are going to

let out and same with pensacola park.

Backing the driveway up, I would

be willing to bet that during rush hour that cars back up as

far or further from there. Think about the red light

situation and how we are getting out of these corridors. Thank you.

[Applause]

>> I live at 99 goodrich avenue

and I just wanted to thank mike

owens for his comment on an earlier development where he

said he really appreciated the people talked with the neighbors

they worked with the neighbors.

They were restoring the hell in

mire's nursery building. Those are the things we are ask

ing in the neighborhood. The same things that you applaud

ed that I saw other people in this committee shaking their head yes.

This is what we wanted to have happen. We want to work with the neighborhood.

We want development.

We want to restore buildings that are already there and not

tear them down thank you. The other comment I have is I

keep hearing that there has not been any study of the sewer and

storm water. And unfortunately some of you

really know me because I live on goodrich where it floods on a

regular basis. And as per the last big rain we

had, I lost my sidewalk.

We are getting new storm water -- I'm sorry, we are getting storm

water pipes.

We don't have them in our neighborhood.

We have no storm water pipes in our neighborhood.

We are getting them in places. We are not getting them in our

whole neighborhood. I had flooding so bad my

sidewalk in the front of the house was gone with the last big

rain we had. We don't need another property

where somebody hasn't looked at the storm water and the sewer

water and where is this water going to go because it's going

to go in front of my house because I know that because it

all runs down nicolasville road

from wabash from penmoken all the way down to my house because

my house is the low point after nicolasville road.

So please at least consider

postponing this until somebody has dealt with the sewer and

storm water and where is it

going to go in our neighborhood? >> thank you.

[Applause]

>> amy clark of 628 castle road

and I have a great deal of

respect for this neighborhood. I understand this is about a

zone change today. There will be a development plan later.

This will be a lot of design issues later.

In a zone change you need to ask yourselves how much density, how

much intensity shall we allow on

this net one half acre lot that

fronts on nicolasville road?

And the zone you give it, the

r-3 sets the parameters for set

backs and open space and tree

canopy and all these other things.

And it helps establish what

would be context sensitive and what would not.

I urge you to look closely at

the findings of fact, prepared

for you in the event of approval by the staff.

Prepared by the staff and they

are quoted they're cited

exclusively from the 2018 goals

and objectives for the comprehensive plan.

The goals and objectives are

approved by council.

But the plan is still in traft.

It's not complete.

It's not comprehensive. It's not there yet.

It has some great big ideas,

some good ideas, many of them

were warmly welcomed by the neighbors here.

Things like transit oriented development along nicolasville

road. You are looking at a proposed

development that has 23 parking

spaces delineated for cars for

single family occupancy.

I need to rush.

A big issue is in the new

comprehensive plan in the draft,

the same historic language in the goals and objectives.

But in the new draft, it's say ing old isn't necessarily

historic.

And it's pretty much floating national register standards for

deciding if a place is historic.

Do you need to honor the historic context or is it

historic at all? These are questions that need to

be resolved but they haven't been yet.

You can't use those goals and

objectives to judge this

proosed zone change because it is still half baked.

There is nicolasville road corridor study that is actually

even got funding but it hasn't happened yet.

So how can you say what would be

efficacious or contextually correct.

I urge you to go back to page

102 of 2013 comprehensive plan

where it says single parcel

projects should fill in the gaps

only for larger lots that is to say larger parcels up to about

two acres do you conceive of increased density.

It's important that single parcels respect the context and

character and the small parcel is two to five acres.

That's when you begin to get

different sort of r-3 type

densities and mixes of housing.

This is a half an acre it can

only hold so much and be compatible and contextually

sensitive with the neighborhood

and look forward toward a development of nicolasville road

that is appropriate my husband and I are both in opposition of

this. My neighbors on siertdz side of

me could not come but said you have my permission to say we are

in opposition to that and that

is six more that goes to the 23 letters. I would also like to say that

the characters of these homes we

have four inch wood, things you

can't spend $250,000 now an get

that kind of quality and charm

with that and the other thing I'd like to say is the town

homes across the street on john ston are all rental property

they're an eye sore. People get evicted from them all

the time and they leave their

junk out on nicolasville road.

Their garbage that sits there for days and people in the

neighborhood, that are walking

by, pick that trash up from that

rental property on johnston boulevard.

I'm in support of everything

else everybody else has said. [Applause]

>> my name is joe miller.

I live at 141 goodrich avenue and my wife and I have been in

that neighborhood for 35 years now.

It looks like I'm the end of the

line so I'll try not to drag it out.

I'm not opposed to change. Which is often sort of the

accusation for people who

disagree with a project like this.

I'm opposed to this project.

I'm not opposed to the idea of development if done appropriate

ly.

With all due respect to the hard

working staff of the planning commission, I disagree with the

assertion they make where they say the proposed development

will provide well designed neighborhoods and communities

that will enable existing

neighborhoods to flourish. That's one of the challenges you

face and everyone faces what is appropriate and what does

enhance or not enhance a neighborhood? I just am very concerned that

this project will not enhance the neighborhood in which I live

and many share with me. I don't think it will set a good

precedent for lexington.

I'm very concerned about sort of

the domino effect through the nicolasville road corridor.

I see lots of big stately old homes between this development

proposal and southland drive and goodrich is the last street

before southland and I really

would hope that whatever infill

does happen along this corridor

can serve as an exemplar for

really good design and good

projects.

>> I'm garrett hanson I live at 135 suburban court.

Sorry for dragging this out any

longer but I wanted to relay to you the experience I had when I

first moved to lexington six years ago.

I remember driving in and coming off new circle road and heading

up on nicolasville road to a

rental property at 121 suburban

court and just being disappoint ed frankly.

It was just strip malls and I thought, God, this is not where

I want to be.

And I remember getting past southland and hitting what, you

know, I would come to know as my

neighborhood and just exhaling,

seeing these homes that were on the side of the road that these

were real homes and they weren't something that had been thrown

up.

And we moved to 121 and we met

our neighbors in 119 and when they bought a house further done

the road on suburban court about a year and a half later, we

bought a house three months after that right across from

them.

And we realized what an amazing community that we have become a

part of just by happenstance. And the fact that there are

people who are coming from dead end streets like suburban court

who are not connected to any of

these other streets, we all support each other because we

live in this tiny island of these beautiful craftsmen and

beautiful bungalows and I just

wanted to offer my voice and that experience to the committee

as well. What it means to drive down

nicolasville road and enter into that community is something we

enjoy every day when we come home.

So thank you, guys.

[Applause] >> now ladies and gentlemen we

have a little way to go yet

because we have to get into the rebuttal phase and what we will

now is the applicant to respond and we are on a timeframe for

you, Mr. Simpson of five minutes I think it is.

And then for the persons representing you all have an

opportunity to react to what he says for five minutes then we

close out with the staff.

>> thank you Mr. Chairman and members of the commission.

I certainly appreciate the interest by the neighbors and

their neighborhood and coming

down here tonight I have been involved in many of these and

it's a good thing that people

participate in these proceedings let me tell you a couple things

that this is not about. It's never been about.

It's never been about how many

people can come down and protest

and say I support development

but not here because that's politically correct thing to say

because it makes their objection

a little more palatable to you all. And I understand the reason that

they don't want the change.

You know, this body appointed a

small area plan back in 2007 to

study the northern nicolasville road area, for a small area plan

it was suggested by one of the representatives that we needed

to do a small area plan.

You all, in fact, adopted that

provision in the 2007 plan and

as the staff will tell you, the neighbors refused to participate

and it died for lack -- mainly because of opposition. They didn't want a plan.

They wanted didn't want to participate in the plan because

they were happy, as are most people with the status quo.

I like what I have. Don't think about changing it.

I don't want to talk about a plan.

So you try to plan and that went nowhere. It never got off the ground

because people didn't want to participate in it.

So now here we are in 2018 and everything that I've heard when

we met with tom and I met with hal and tracey.

We talked with jim, what do we need, what is it that you all

would like to see? And I want you guys to tell me

if I'm wrong.

We want to see more density on this spot.

Is that correct? Jim, hal, tom?

Did you tell me you wanted more density on this location?

>> Mr. Simpson.

Go ahead... And make your rebuttal statements.

It's not... >> this is rebuttal. >> it's not.

I respectfully suggest go ahead and make your point and then

that's it. We will listen. We are listening.

>> and I appreciate your listen

ing but rebuttal means

that I'm entitled to put on evidence to rebutt the issues

that the were raised by the

other side from or own staff.

And if you are going to

encourage developers to read the

comprehensive plan and to read

this language, defending vacant and underperforming land in the

urban services area to accommodate lexington's growth

is a key component of safeguard

ing the rural land.

And if you are going to adopt

language we submitted our conceptual drawings to the staff

we have never received any

negative feedback. On the contrary nothing but

endorsements that our proposal

did in fact meet the conceptual guidelines because there is no

specific guidelines on approving anything.

it did meet the conceptual

guidelines of scale, massing and

size of the surrounding buildings.

It's two story, we face nicolasville road.

That's our neighborhood.

We are also connected to penmoken because we are on the

corner.

So we follow what you say you

want is, increasing density on

those large lots on nicolasville road. Now this is what is in the

downpayment and when we talked to your staff, this is what they

say they want.

And when we follow it, we believe we ought to be given the

green light to go to the next

level.

Now as within any zone change,

you file conceptual preliminary applications because you are not

going to bring in and have something designed because if

you don't get zoning approval, you've wasted your money.

That's why we have a two step process.

A preliminary development plan if that gets approved in

connection with the zone change, we come wak for another whole

hearing on the final development plan. So with respect to the people

that want to follow the plan and increase density, we've done

that and that's why we believe

we are entitled to get approval from this body today.

Your staff has recommended it.

We've met all their concerns on the development plan, the sub

committees have approved it without objection.

And we believe we are entitled to move forward to the next level.

The details on the final development plan come with the

final development plan stage.%

but we've complied with the comp plan and your staff agreed with

it. >> the staff will get the last word.

So you can pose questions and they'll provide the answers when

they get their opportunity. Now I'm going back to the community.

If there is any concluding or other thoughts you May have, you have five minutes to make your

final points. >> I don't need five minutes.%

there is a lot in that last rebuttal that frankly I don't

need to respond to. It's not really rebuttal or

relevant. The only thing I want you all to

know is that the we don't think the zone change is appropriate

because the design doesn't currently meet the zoning

regulations for the zone he applied for r-1 t and it's not

supported by the comprehensive plan and thank you all for

listening to all of us today. >> thank you.

>> now, staff.

>> I'll be very brief. In the staff's professional

opinion, the plan does meet the ordinance.

It didn't be before you with our recommendation of approval if it

didn't because that is our job,

as you know, to evaluate it and

be sure that it meets the requirements of the ordinance.

And now just as a side bar, to

educate folks, I know how sophia alley got named.

And I know why.

the e 911 ordinance for

emergency response is they tried to name every little road and

alley and street in our community because that is how

our police and fire find things.

And it's all based on response time. So that's how that happened.

It's named after a man's

daughter by the way.

So that's it.

>> just a couple of extra things

so within the 2013 and 2018 comprehensive plans, staff has

gained the knowledge from the

public that says that they do

want dense if I indication along our arterial roadways in

lexington, kentucky. Because that guides our process

of thought, yes, staff agrees

there should be be a greater densification along our arterial

roadways. So along the question that was

posed and the audience that asked as well, those are where

staff stands.

The individual that did not receive notification, she is

outside of the notification area

there are multiple redundancies so notification is sent out to

the public including the posting of signs as well as the legal

notice that is presented in the newspaper.

As for single family versus mull multifamily, there was a lot of

discussion of this being a multi family this is attached

single family dwellings. I want that to be on the record as well.

If you have any further questions for staff, we are also

here to answer. >> okay.

That's what we will do now. i'm going to open it up for the

commission to ask questions of either the applicant, the people

in the community or the staff as it relates to this particular

issue.

If you have questions now, the

is the time to do it. Yes, sir Mr. Owens.

>> thank you Mr. Chairman.

This would be for Mr. Simpson. In the lends of time we have

been listening to this, a lot of things everybody said but two

things jump out at me.

One was the question as far as

home ownership versus vental -- rental.

What sort of security guarantees can be placed in that to make

make make make make make make make make make make make make

make make make make make make

>> you mean are they going to be

rented or sold? >> yes.

>> the same assurances that I mean there are probably what 40%

of the folks on penmoken that

rent, david?

3w-7 37% of the houses. His commitment is to sell the

units. That's what he wants to do,

david, is that correct? >> yes. >> okay.

>> the second thing is I think you mentioned a couple times in

your presentation that these

town homes would be all brick

and then lastly lately you have mentioned context sensitivity as

far as the design and so forth.

How can we be assured that it's

going to stay as being presented

within a reasonable and won't go

to what we've seen as far as

vinyl student housing? >> we will not submit a final

development plan without it

being all brick and if we do,

turn it down. This is a serious commit: this

is going to be a well designed

project and we'll have an architect at the final

development plan to be queried about every single thing as well

as the construction manager.

>> thank you, sir. >> first I have a question as

well. You know, there has been a lot

of stuff thrown around about the design and how it's going to

look and what all is going to be

involved and there need to be architects involved and

everything else.

Typically at this zoning phase, we don't have all that

information.

We have conceptual, so we don't have all of that information

until we get to the development plan. Am I correct?

>> that's correct. The ordinance and the law

requires that you come forward

with conceptual representation

of what you intend to do.

And as you all know, just to get

conceptual approval from our

staff is a major accomplishment.

Because they go over this weeks and week and days and days and

changes are made and your mission is, as a developer, you

got to get staff's approval.

And that's... That is what we accomplished in connection from

the voor first time we met with them up to today we finally got

staff approval on everything that wave' submitted.

>> okay.

Thank you.

>> anyone else? I have one quick question and it

has nothing to do with the plan and what have you.

What happens to the 10 people

that would be potentially dis placed? What are you going to do with

that and how would you handle that?

>> david has already met with those gentlemen and has given

each one of them a heads up sheet, if you will, explaining

that a zone change has been

filed; that depending on whether

it's granted or not, they May have to move elsewhere.

But he has a number of houses

100 houses in lexington and will

make accommodation for them to

stay at the same rent or less with his representation to each

of those 10 gentleman to make

sure that there is a proper transition. This was done months ago.

>> okay. Any other questions?

Comments?

>> yes.

>> you know the 2018 comp plan

is based on the fact that 10,000 citizens said we don't want to

expand the urban service boundary.

it's also based on the fact that

infill, we still have places

that infill can happen.

When we, as a planning

commission, get approval from

our staff for a zone change and the preliminary development plan

, and I want to emphasize

the word preliminary because the final development plan will look

like you want it to look like it will not look like what you have

seen today. And as far as the reason Mr.

Simpson enumerated he didn't know if he would bet a

zone change or not.

It is not our intention or not

my intention to change your neighborhood.

It is my intention to increase

the density along nicolasville road corridor and I don't mean

by commercialization that

happened at the other end of nicolasville road.

I mean by putting people in homes that want to stay there or

housing types that want to stay there. I'm going to support this

because of the zone change

because we have to have more

density in the corridor. We've already, as a commission,

we already voted that this is

what we want to happen with our goals and objectives.

So I can't disapprove the zone change because what is happening

here is happening according to

what the plan we've adopted or at least the goals and

objectives. I will tell you that I don't

like the development plan.

And I will tell you that most of

the commissioners on here don't

like the development plan. (Audience yelling don't approve it).

>> if you'll let me finish. I get a chance to approve the

development plan at another time

all this is is a place holder.

So that's why I'm going to vote

to approve this because I know

I'll get another bite at that apple with the development plan

and it better look a lot better than it looks right now but I

don't want to hold up a zone change that our staff has

approved because we've got to have reasons to disapprove this

and if we believe in the comp

plan, we have got to uphold this

zone change. You will be notified and you

certainly can come and see it and you will be notified when we

are going to hear it and you can come back down here and talk

about the development plan then. But right now the best thing for

us to do if we are going to up hold the comp plan is to

approve the development plan on the -- the zone change on the

faith that development plan is going to look different and

you'll get an opportunity to see it. So I'm just telling you what I'm

going to do thank you for being here.

It has been a long afternoon we want sustainable neighborhoods

but we are bound by the comprehensive plan and our

commitment to corridors it's obvious you love our neighborhood.

It's sustainable.

But and I'm sure my colleagues

up here would agree with you that they wouldn't want change

in their neighborhood either.

But we have to look at the big

picture and that big picture is develop the corridors and hold

the boundary on the so-for-that

reason I would be willing to

vote for this zone change. Again, thank you for coming down

here. You think that you've been

miserable. You think that we haven't listen

ed. You think you have not gotten

your way but like frank said,

wait for the development plan.

But your energy into that and perhaps it will be more liking

for you. Thank you.

>> thank you. Anyone else on the panel like to

say anything?

Any questions?

>> I just, I guess am going to

reiterate a little bit while I

think there is plenty of room for improvement on the

development plan, it is

preliminary.

I'm going to closes the process back to the commission for

additional discussion and/or a motion as to how you want to

proceed from here. I'm going to move for recommendation of approval of

the zone change for pln-mar-18-

26 for the reasons

noted by staff. We are voting.

The motion is approved.

>> and I'm going to move for

approval of the preliminary

development plan-mjdp-18-95

changing number 7 to resolve access to penmoken park.

>> I think we can just eliminate that.

>> I'm fine with that. So the six conditions as noted

by staff.

It has been moved by Mr. william berkeley and

second by Miss Karen mundy that

we approve the preliminary plan

-mjdp-18-95 penmoken park. Hearing noun please vote when it

comes up on the screen let me say, my colleagues couldn't be

more eloquent in terms of where we are in this process.

You will have another bite of

the apple and quite frankly I agree wholeheartedly with my colleague.

I don't like the development plan either but at this stage of

the game, this is a zone change and these are the kinds of

things that we have been struggling with.

Ladies and gentlemen, let me also thank you sincerely for

your patience today.% because you have stuck it out as

well as any group has and I can understand why you would stick

it out because you've got a lot at stake with your homes but

we've all about be in the same situation in another situation

another circumstance but I thank

you all for coming and do indeed

wish you the best. But again this is just a

preliminary event here.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen we are

still in session here. If you would please proceed to

the hallway for additional discussion at which time you can

continue to talk.

Right now we are still in

session.

Mr. Duncan. Ladies and gentlemen. We are continuing.

There is a section on our

program agenda for anyone who wanted to speak about anything,

they had a couple minutes to do so and there is a person here

who did not get a chance to speak monday and we indicated we

would allow that individual to%

make a comment so is she here?

Come on up to the front to the

microphone and identify yourself

and I'm from lexington, kentucky

and as someone hob part of the comprehensive plan from the

verbiage of the vision statement

to today, I was looking over the

final comp plan and I was wonder ing, it's filled with lots

of pretty pictures and lots of pictures with pretty people in

them but it's not comprehensive of the whole of lexington.

There are people with mobility

issues, disabilities in wheelchairs things of this

nature and it doesn't represent ... It doesn't show any

representation of that except for drawings.

And it was just... I was just wondering if y'all could just...

It has come to my attention that the resources are out there to

help do that.

And it would just be really nice

if the comp plan represented the

all not just the pretty people. Thank you.

Kudos to you for making a comp plan by the people for the people.

You did a great job in doing that. You tried to incorporate as many

as you could and for that, I am grateful that's all.

>> thank you, ma'am and

appreciate with that

>> thank you, Mr. Chair.

The staff would like to make

some sons -- response to some of the comments that you were

presented with monday night so

with that we'll ask chris woodall and then I will round

out the staff comments based on monday night's presentation.

>>

>> Mr. Chairman, members of the commission.

I know that you all have had a long afternoon so I appreciate your patience as we discuss this

important topic.

And I always appreciate the opportunity be in front of you

all to speak. Today, we'll try to keep our

presenting brief.

But you'll be hearing as Mr. Duncan said from myself,

chris taylor, and then director duncan regarding what we heard

on monday,, everyone of us will be making a specific point to

address some of the primary issues that were raised and the

main point that I would like to

address, is that, there is no legal question the comprehensive

plan in its current form, can be

adopted today, and implemented tomorrow. To be clear, your legal counsel

will tell you the same thing. We have followed and far

ex-sided -- >> excuse me.

I'm going to put a marker on that because I understand that

you are an outstanding planner but I want to hear from the

attorney as it relates to just your statement so would you take

that and make that a part of the record. >> we have looked at this, and

you'll hear more from them

that -- or this evening, about where -- some of the language

that was talked about on monday

night where the terms like,

"shall" and "must" have been

modified to read more in terms of "should" or more suggestive

and more guidance oriented than what was being put forward as

being mandatory language. Which is what you also heard a

lot of monday is that the comp plan is supposed to be a guide.

Sop with that in mind, and with

the fact that we have put off indefinitely until we get

through this process, article 281, our office feels

comfortable that this can go forward as it is. >> okay, thank you.

And I apologize, Mr. Woodall for that. But -- >> that's fine.

>> you have the credentials for the planning.

You just did not have jd behind your name. >> I'm okay with that.

But, as I was saying, we -- we

have followed and far

ex-exceeded the minimum state standard asset out in krs for

what is required for a comprehensive plan and we've

done so in an inclusive and fully transparent manner.

Our data collection has been robust, we've looked at

national, state and local resources for that.

The our research has been thorough over two years of

preparation. Public input resulted in

historic numbers. Over 12,000 people contributing

to this plan and we've consulted with public officials and

agencies, almost 70 expert advisers and our counsel

unanimously approved the goals goals and objectives on this

comprehensive plan is built. the place builder is the

embodiment of one of only about handful of actual implementation

items that are called for in the council approved goals and

objectives. By moving the development

criteria from an implementation to a primary objective and goals

and objectives made clear from

the very beginning, that imagine lexington would include a place builder.

The planning and commission has called for and demanded better

guidance on the zone changes. The call has been the development community.

Planning has not been sigh lept on this for the last two years.

We've developed a document of best practices, and concepts

that make for great places. When we solicited input, the

neighborhoods were not silent. We've been out educating and

we've been discussing it. We've been teaching how it would

be implemented and taking specific feedback along the way

and incorporating it into the document. Those same opportunities have been made available to the

development community, and today we haven't had a single comment

in writing with changes to address the substance of what

has been submitted. E-mail, planning staff is committed at every turn to the

neighborhoods and citizens. To create a better tool to

better discuss and evaluate zone changes.

For planning to equivocate on those commitments to the public

is unacceptable and it is not snag the planning feels that we

can do.

place builder is the balance in the comprehensive plan.

It is a pro growth policies. Place builder is how we are

going to reach consensus. It is how we're going to bridge

the I don't individual between

developers and residents. And I know that sounds

idealistic, you know, I have been doing this a long time too

much I've heard a lot of people complain about a lot of

different things.

There is optimism about this. The people who we have taken

this to, they understand what

the plan and place builder is trying to achieve.

And so, the last point I need to

make is that from the ground up, showing basically going back to

the goal and and objectives the

plan was developed around a simple philosophy of goals and

objectives, clear policies, and

a list of criteria to implement them. Place builder is not simply

tacked on to the end of the imagine lexington like an appendix.

It is referenced throughout the document, and it is the back

bone of the plan.

And it cannot be removed as far

as the planning staff feels. And with that I'll turn it over

to Mr. Duncan. We'll get back to you in just a minute.

>> I have a question.

>> hong on a minute. We'll get to you.

Go ahead. >> our neighborhoods are

distressed about change. And that the an understatement

given what you all just went through.

on the heels of yet another contentious zone change hearing.

Neighborhoods are concerned that redevelopment will change the

character of their neighborhoods. And they are concerned that

redevelopment will cause

problems for traffic and storm water. Our mains are concerned that new

development takes away their open space. And causes problems with traffic

and storm water.

That distress is not new.

Our archives are filled with

files of stressful contentious

zone changes but both, and after

the great 1996 expansion. And no matter what process we

have in place, no matter how much farmland we make available

for the development, we will

always have contentious zone changes in lexington. And for good or bad, some of

those will end up in the courts.

The 2013 and 2018 comp plans are pro growth plans.

We eliminated the future land

use map, and declared that infill is a strategic component

of growth.

The underperforming and underutilized ones.

The intention in 2013 was to follow up with criteria.

We ensured that was a priority

for the 2018 plan. So now we find ourselves in the

place where the urban county

council has unanimously stated, that no farm land will be made

available for urban development

for the foreseeable future.

And the process that they have sanctioned to consider whether

and where to expand, is no guarantee of expansion.

and will likely never lead to an

expansion like we had in 17996. Second:

people do not want new or redevelopment in their neighborhoods.

They don't want it. They are satisfied with the

status quo.

Even if what is offered would be better they know what they know

and that's where they want to b finally we know that we're still

a growing community. And in part because this is where the jobs.

Are this is where the services are. The educational opportunities.

The university of kentucky is

continuing its multi-billion

dollar improvement to its campus and they wouldn't be doing that%

if the they were not drawing in more people to educate, more

people for research and more people to this community.

We also know that people are coming to lexington because this

is just a great place to be.

For tangible and intangible reasons. Put those three things together.

No new land, neighborhood

distress about new development, and a growing community.

How do we take those three desperate ideas and move this

community forward? That is where place builder

comes in.

By the 1958 planning commission to the cost and uncertainties

associated with unchecked

sanitary sewer expansion. That 1958 policy of urban

service area boundary, has been

the lynch pin of comprehensive planning.

And caused us to develop in ways that are different and more

efficient. Likewise, place builder sets the

stage for responsive and better outcomes.

As a reminder, place builder is not a recent development. The goals and objectives that

you recommended, and that

council approved, called for criteria.

And if you'll forgive me for using the wrong tense, place

builder is criteria. The framework for place builder

was introduced in August and the

full criteria were offered in

September. We held six input opportunities

and every work session has been open.

We have met with industry, and

neighborhood organizations, on their terms.

There have been ample opportunitiers of the past

months for input and change and

to date er, we have received no constructive feedback on how to

improve place builder. So eliminating place builder as

chris taylor said is not an option. Tans element of the

comprehensive plan.

But, improving it is always an option.

And we have been eager to hear lou the plan could be improved.

All we have really heard is, make it go away.

We are prepared to move forward

with the plan today. After 26 months, more than 60

open meetings, research and analysis, public input, we're

ready. However, in the spirit of

outreach, clarity and an ongoing

interest in improvement, we offer an alternative should you

wish to continue this discussion

to another date. We will hold feedback and

workshop sessions in January, as

an opportunity for anyone developer, neighborhood, other

professionals and citizens, to

have additional time to discuss place builder and offer

constructive recommendations for

improvement.

We will then reopen the public

hearing on 31 to discuss the potential changes to place

builder, and finalize action on the plan.

Should you be interested in this path, we have just handed you a

schedule of dates and times that you could reference in a motion

to continue this hearing until

January 31.

>> Now I would like to give -- if any of the commission members

have a question for any of the

presenters, Mr. Berkley. We'll have two group sexes but

at different times, and that

will be it? Because I don't know if

everything can be vetted in --

>> I agree with you. So, the first bullet point

number two talks about the two focus group sessions and you're correct.

Those are identical sessions held at different times and one

of the daytime for folks that

are working professionals that are engaged in it or whoever

else wants to attend and also an evening he meeting for folks

that May have to work to participate.

But, we also step number four

talks about a workshop for

public to the proposed changes. So, we would listen in those

focus groups, hear what it is, and make some proposed changes,

bring it back to folks who want

to attend that meeting on the

January 16, and then, he would receive additinal feedback from

there, and then revise even further and then bring it back to the planning commission.

So there would be two opportunities for input.

>> >> are we going to go on

parallel lines with article 21

or how do you intend to address that?

>> we're not talking about article 21 so we'll get through

this plan, and including through

the month of January, so we will continue to indefinitely

postpone article 21 until the plan has been adopted. >> that's what I wanted to know.

Thank you. >> okay.

Any other comments? >> real quick.

One, I appreciate this very much.

And two, I'm liking what I'm seeing so far.

I do appreciate a time line with

an end date so that we can

hopefully get this thing through

with a known end date.

One comment on two items that doesn't need a response, just

something to look at throughout

this process, month day night,

and after, two things that I

didn't hear about today.

For you to look at would be a table of contents, and then

also, take a look at the appendix that was -- there was

some concern about the appendix and housing as well.

So, like I said, no comments needed, but, just something to look at.

>> I don't know if anybody else got copies of those, but, I did

not. In my packet.

And I could not print it. The appendix did not get it in the packet.

And I could not print it from sew.

>> so the appendix is available underneath on imagine

lexington.Com. If you look there can is a link that you can click on it.

>> are you talking about the one that you just put out on the fourth?

>> the booklet thing? >> yes. >> you cannot print from that.

>> there is a -- so if you look at the top left corner there is

a little tab that should allow you to download it and once you

download it, you should be able to print it. If you have trouble, let me know

and I'll help you out. >> I tried.

I mean, I tried. >> I did too.

>> and -- it was kind of at the back and it wasn't there, but

one day when I looked for it and then, the next day, it was.

And, okay, so. >> well, yeah.

If anybody -- if anybody has trouble accessing it or printing

it, I'm a resource, so let me know. I would be happy to help.

>> and okay.

Anything else?

>> since -- I was not there monday night.

I think you guys know about some commitments that I have at home

that I can't really change to come in here.

I did thanks to chris, watch the whole thing.

He sent me a link. And, with several cups of coffee

I did go through the whole two hours and 15 minutes or whatever it was. And, it was --

>> why are you complaining, you had coffee.

[Laughter]

>> I'm not complaining. No, no.

I'm just saying that I did share your pain.

And, you know, I'm never one to want to push something off or

take more time when we can do it appropriately in an efficient or

a shorter timeframe.

But, I thought what I heard was that there were significant

questions that needed to be addressed.

And, the outpour of concern

about place builder and the

checklist, the -- how this would

turn into -- you have 14 and

I've got 18, how do you balance

who meets the criteria. So I'm really quite pleased to

see the change in language that you put out first about changing

all of the "shall" and "must" to "should." from my perspective anyway, that

addresses the checklist issue. Right off the bat.

As as far as the timeframe, you

put forward, it's ambitious to say the least.

But, this also as you pointed out, has been gestation periods

of 26 months. So, we want to do it right even

if we have to take a little longer to do it.

I think you have done a good job

of compromising on, let's get this thing done because, you all

live it every day. The rest of us don't.

So I can appreciate your

frustration with not being able

to -- when in your opinion it is done.

So, I am fully supportive of the -- what I consider to be a

very adequate compromise on the timeframe.

And I appreciate what had to

have been a lot of late hours putting together this

information between monday night and tonight.

So, thank you all. >> thank you.

>> I want to encourage the staff

to cut us a little slack here.

What we saw today and what we did today, is what we're going

to do many times over and over

for the next four years and beyond.

And the more education that we

can do for ourselves, because if we don't fine tune it as a

commission, we won't follow light so we wasted our 26

months, patrick. But, there comes a time when you

have got to say, okay, we have got to fish or cut bait.

And, if we can get to that point, by the end of January, I

think that we have done a great job.

But, always remember, this is

just as good as a -- that you

can use and I'm more concerned about us being brought into this

and enforcing it and just like

today, you know, four years ago,

he would have been very tempted to pass the zone change and

postpone the development plan.

Well, we're past that know now. We go for it or we don't.

But we have to have reasons and we have to understand. i'm willing to keep working on

it but I think has to be an end

time at some point.

I mean, there's two things that can happen.

You can talk to it until you paralyze it or you can decide,

this is as good as we can do and go forward with it. Once we decide we're going

forward with it, that just begun.

And now, it is a matter of implementing it and education.

So, I salute new doing this I think that the legal partner was

great. We're never going to get it

where everybody is very satisfied with it.

It is democracy, and, it is not a perfect thing. But I salute you.

>> thank you. And Ms. Plumley.

>> thank you.

I stated earlier, I believe that

we had a good document with comp

plan proposal.

But I fully think that the message going forward to

neighborhoods is, don't go downtown, don't bother.

Because it is already cut and

dried. And, as I say, I have already --

I sort of believe that. Even though I love

neighborhoods, and I believe

that they get the raw deal a lot of times.

But, anyway, I just have to say that because I think that is

going to be the message and I

think it is correct. >> thank you.

Anyone else? If not, the chair would

entertain a motion to continue

this meeting until January 31. >> so moved. >> second.

>> okay, it has been moved by

Mr. Frank p eppnn and seconded by Mr. Mike owens that we

continue this meeting until January 31.

>> I can can I make a comment or a question. >> just been -- we got the

motion on the floor now. It open for discuss. Yes.

>> go ahead. >> open for discussion. >> this is discussion now.

>> so, if I understand this correctly, we're going to have a

series of opportunities for everybody in the community to

input this. Right. And at least two or three that I

see on the piece of paper,

right.

So, then do we -- are we obliged to open up the next meeting for

a full hearing again for full public comment?

Because, we have got the public comment that we -- for everybody

who wanted to participate

we're giving them all new opportunity to provide input at

three different time points, right.

Already.

I would hate to see us get to a situation where we have to do

another three hour or four-hour

meeting, to hear what -- almost

assuredly be half of the same things again.

Is it possible just to go with the input that we have on paper?

>> I'm -- let me put it this way. Go ahead.

I have my own opinion.

>> we talked about this. the staff did a little bit

yesterday and today.

But, first off, by continuing

this hearing, until the 31st of January, you are incorporating

what you have heard. In other words, you're not just

erasing it and starting over. Now, certainly, there is going

to be some discussions at these workshops and at these sessions,

and they May bring up new things.

And, you know, one of the things that Mr. Woodall and

Mr. Duncan and I have been talking about the last couple of

days is, that -- and I don't mean this as any disrespect to

the other members of the

planning and zoning board, but, a lot of what we have heard and

we've had meetings with

different members of that, that you all haven't been in but

we've all been in, and you know, if there are specific things and

items that need more explanation, that we can do in

those sessions, and if there are

specific alternative language or

alternative ways that we can modify this, it would be great

to hear what those are because the message that we've been

hearing is, you should take this out.

And that doesn't help us modify.

So, I say that to say this:

if as we go forward in these sessions, if some new things

come about, certainly you're all

going to have to have the opportunity to discuss those.

And you're going to have to have

the opportunity to hear people, but, it is really up to all as a

commission and to your chair if

you're going to open it wide up, and hear everything that you

have already heard again. I don't think that you have to

do that.

But I do think that if new things come online and new

changes, those are going to have to be discussed.

>> what I was going to say for

the most part is, let's he hear what goes on and make a decision

about how we deal with that. We don't have to make that

decision right now. But anything and everything we

do I'm hoping that we'll be able

to get done, by January 31 but also agree this is am by shouse

but it depends on what else we hear. And how well people react to

what we have. But I'm -- I would say I

wouldn't close it but I wouldn't

open it up just automatically. Either. >> okay.

We have a motion on the floor for continuing.

>> yes, ma'am, go ahead. >> simple question.

How do we get the word out? >> I'm sorry.

>> how do we get the word out?

>> >> we'll submit through the

email list serve that includes everybody that is involved in

the planning and zoning process, all the neighborhood

associations that we have, we'll

put it out in our social media accounts. We'll -- we have every intention

of advertising this far and wide as we have everything else to get as many people to

participate as possible. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> and no problem.

any other comments or questions. Discussion. Motion on the table is to

continue this meeting January 31. There has been properly moved motion and second.

Any other discussion?

Hearing none, are we still voting.

All in favor, please vote when it comes up on your screens. Okay.

The motion carries. Ladies and gentlemen, if there

is no other public business, I

wish you a very happy holiday, and thank you very much.

The only thing that I want for christmas is a parking space.