# Board of Adjustment - January 14, 2019 > Auto-transcribed civic record · January 14, 2019 - **Permalink**: https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/meeting/4666 - **Source video**: https://lfucg.granicus.com/player/clip/4666?view_id=14&redirect=true - **Date**: 2019-01-14 - **Last revised**: January 14, 2019 - **Length**: 31,237 words - **Speakers**: Renee > ⚠️ **Auto-generated content.** Audio from the official Granicus video was auto-transcribed with OpenAI's open-source Whisper large-v3-turbo model, run locally by The Lexington Times. Structured facts were extracted with GPT-4o; the narrative summary was written by Anthropic Claude. Verbatim wording may contain errors. See [methodology](https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/about/methodology) or [report a correction](mailto:editor@lexingtonky.news). --- ## Meeting Overview The Board of Adjustment convened on January 14, 2019, at 1:30 PM in the Council Chambers at 200 East Main Street in Lexington, Kentucky, with Branden Gross presiding as the meeting officer. The board addressed five agenda items during the session, all of which were approved, including variance and conditional use appeals as well as an administrative review. The meeting featured active public participation with 11 public comments heard throughout the proceedings. The board conducted 5 formal votes during the session, demonstrating a productive meeting where all presented matters received favorable consideration and approval. ## Attendance The following members were present at the January 14, 2019 meeting: • Branden Gross • Jan Meyer • Raquel Carter (arrived late) • Harry Clarke • Thomas Glover (arrived late) • Chad Needham • Joan Whitman All scheduled members attended the meeting. Two members, Raquel Carter and Thomas Glover, arrived after the meeting had begun. ## Votes and Decisions The board considered five applications during the meeting, approving all items with varying levels of support. **PLN-BOA-18-00081** - Raquel Carter motioned to approve a variance to reduce the required swimming pool setback from 30 feet to 10 feet at 223 Glendover Road, seconded by Chad Needham. The motion passed unanimously 6-0, with all members voting in favor: Branden Gross, Jan Meyer, Raquel Carter, Harry Clarke, Chad Needham, and Joan Whitman. The approval requires the pool to be installed at a minimum 10-foot setback from the Glendover Road property line and obtaining all necessary building permits. [timestamp: 00:00] **PLN-BOA-18-00080** - Chad Needham motioned to approve a conditional use permit for a farm gift shop at 3295 Spy Coast Lane, seconded by Joan Whitman. The motion passed unanimously 6-0 with the same voting members. Conditions include compliance with the submitted application and site plan, restrictions on signage, and obtaining all necessary permits including a Certificate of Occupancy. [timestamp: 00:00] **PLN-BOA-18-00085** - Chad Needham motioned to approve a conditional use permit for a place of religious assembly and variance to reduce parking lot front setback from 20 feet to 10 feet, seconded by Joan Whitman. The motion passed unanimously 6-0 with all members supporting. [timestamp: 00:00] **PLN-BOA-18-00082** - Jan Meyer motioned to approve an administrative appeal to change from a cocktail lounge to a florist use, seconded by Joan Whitman. The motion passed unanimously 6-0. [timestamp: 00:00] **PLN-BOA-18-00083** - Thomas Glover motioned to approve conditional use permits for a plant nursery and zone extension, seconded by Raquel Carter. This motion passed 5-2 in a roll call vote. Voting in favor: Branden Gross, Raquel Carter, Harry Clarke, Thomas Glover, and Chad Needham. Voting against: Jan Meyer and Joan Whitman. Conditions include no retail operations and limited delivery hours. [timestamp: 00:00] ## Public Comment [timestamp: 00:00] Eleven residents spoke during the public comment period, all expressing concerns about a plant nursery operation in their neighborhood. **Traffic and Safety Concerns** Multiple speakers raised traffic-related issues. William Woodward mentioned the impact of increased traffic and the presence of semi-trucks on Swigert Avenue. Kathy Plomin expressed concerns about traffic and its impact on the rural character of the area. Deborah Aminoff clarified that a mack truck presence was due to septic system replacement, not regular business operations. **Health and Environmental Issues** Several residents voiced health concerns related to burning activities. Leonard Atkinson expressed concerns about the impact of burning on his and his son's asthma. Lucy Brooks, representing a trust, raised concerns about potential health risks from burning, as well as impacts on property values. Catherine Perkins discussed potential environmental issues affecting the neighborhood. **Business Operations and Zoning** Residents questioned the nature of the business operations. Stephanie Bray expressed concerns that the operation functioned more as a landscaping business than a plant nursery, citing issues with burning, trash, and traffic. Susan Durant argued that the business was more commercial than agricultural in nature. **Neighborhood Impact** Several speakers addressed broader neighborhood concerns. Donna Burklow raised issues about noise, safety, and the presence of strangers due to business operations. Bobby Bray expressed concerns about the business's impact on the neighborhood's character and environment. Carole Whalen voiced concerns about property maintenance, specifically regarding the condition of a barn and its impact on her property. The public comments revealed consistent themes around traffic, health impacts from burning, questions about the business's agricultural versus commercial nature, and concerns about maintaining the rural character of the neighborhood. ## Contested Items The meeting included one contested item that generated significant community opposition. **Conditional Use Appeal - Michael Ecton** Michael Ecton's application for a plant nursery faced substantial opposition from community members during the proceedings. The primary concerns raised by residents centered on three key areas: potential traffic impacts, noise concerns, and environmental effects that the proposed nursery might have on the surrounding area. Community members voiced their objections to the conditional use permit, expressing worries about increased vehicle traffic that could result from nursery operations. Residents also raised concerns about noise levels that might be generated by the business activities. Additionally, opponents cited potential environmental impacts as a significant factor in their opposition to the proposal. The nature of the opposition indicates this was a community-driven challenge to the proposed land use, with multiple residents participating in the discussion of the application. The specific outcome of this contested item was not detailed in the available meeting materials, though the significant level of community engagement suggests this was a major point of discussion during the proceedings. This type of conditional use appeal represents a common source of contention in local government meetings, where proposed commercial or industrial uses in residential or mixed-use areas often generate debate between applicants seeking to establish businesses and community members concerned about impacts on their neighborhoods. ## Variance Appeal - Jeffrey & Katherine Wiseman [timestamp: 00:00] The board considered a variance request from Jeffrey and Katherine Wiseman to reduce the required setback for a swimming pool from 30 feet to 10 feet. This agenda item III.C.1 involved a property-specific ordinance variance appeal. Katherine Wiseman presented the request to the board, explaining the circumstances that necessitated the reduced setback requirement for their proposed swimming pool installation. The standard municipal ordinance requires swimming pools to be positioned at least 30 feet from property boundaries, but the Wisemans sought approval to place their pool with only a 10-foot setback. Rick Rushing also participated in the discussion, though the specific nature of his involvement and role in the proceedings was not detailed in the available materials. The variance request represents a significant reduction in the required setback distance - a 20-foot decrease from the standard 30-foot requirement. Such variance appeals typically require property owners to demonstrate hardship or unique circumstances that justify deviation from established zoning regulations. The board ultimately approved the variance request, allowing the Wisemans to proceed with their swimming pool installation at the reduced 10-foot setback distance. This approval grants them relief from the standard 30-foot setback requirement that would otherwise apply to their property. The successful outcome enables the Wisemans to move forward with their pool construction project under the modified setback parameters, having received the necessary municipal approval for the variance from standard zoning requirements. ## Conditional Use Appeal - Spy Coast Farm Kentucky, LLC [timestamp: 00:00] The board considered agenda item III.D.1, a conditional use appeal from Spy Coast Farm Kentucky, LLC requesting a conditional use permit to operate a farm gift shop as an accessory use to their agricultural operation. Sam Carneal served as the key speaker for this agenda item, presenting the details of the conditional use request to the board members. The application sought approval for Spy Coast Farm Kentucky, LLC to establish and operate a farm gift shop on their property as an accessory use to complement their existing farming activities. This type of conditional use permit would allow the farm to diversify their operations by adding retail sales of farm-related products and gifts while maintaining their primary agricultural function. Following the presentation and any discussion among board members, the conditional use appeal was approved. The approval allows Spy Coast Farm Kentucky, LLC to proceed with their plans to operate the farm gift shop as an accessory use to their agricultural operation, subject to any conditions or requirements that may have been established as part of the conditional use permit process. The approval of this conditional use permit represents a common type of agricultural diversification that allows working farms to supplement their income through complementary retail activities while preserving the agricultural character of the property. ## Conditional Use Appeal - Roman Catholic Bishop Diocese [timestamp: 00:00] The City Council considered agenda item III.D.3, a conditional use appeal submitted by the Roman Catholic Bishop Diocese. The request involved two components: a conditional use permit for establishing a place of religious assembly and a variance to reduce the required front setback for an associated parking lot. Father Norman Fisher and Fred Eastridge served as key speakers representing the Diocese during the presentation and discussion of this matter. The proposal centered on the Diocese's need to establish religious assembly facilities while addressing practical considerations related to parking requirements. The variance request specifically sought to reduce the standard front setback requirements for the parking lot, which would allow for more efficient use of the available property while maintaining adequate parking for congregants and visitors. During the proceedings, the speakers presented their case for both the conditional use permit and the setback variance, outlining how the proposed religious assembly use would serve the community while addressing any potential concerns about the reduced parking lot setback. The City Council ultimately approved both requests, granting the conditional use permit for the place of religious assembly and approving the variance to reduce the required front setback for the parking lot. This decision allows the Roman Catholic Bishop Diocese to proceed with their plans for the religious facility while accommodating the practical parking needs of the congregation within the modified setback parameters. The approval represents the Council's support for the Diocese's community-serving mission while balancing land use considerations and parking requirements for the proposed religious assembly facility. ## Administrative Review - Eckman Properties [timestamp: 00:00] The City Council considered agenda item III.E.1, an administrative review for Eckman Properties requesting to change one non-conforming use to another non-conforming use. The proposal involved converting a cocktail lounge to a florist operation. William Wood served as the key speaker for this agenda item, presenting the details of the proposed use change to the Council. The request centered on allowing Eckman Properties to transition from operating a cocktail lounge, which was a non-conforming use under current zoning regulations, to establishing a florist business, which would also be considered a non-conforming use in the same location. The Council reviewed the administrative aspects of this use change, examining how the proposed florist operation would function within the existing zoning framework and what implications the change might have for the property and surrounding area. Following the presentation and discussion, the Council approved the administrative review for Eckman Properties. This approval allows the property owner to proceed with converting the former cocktail lounge space into a florist business, despite both uses being non-conforming under the current zoning designation. The approval represents the Council's determination that the proposed change from one non-conforming use to another was acceptable and would not create additional zoning conflicts or community concerns beyond those that may have existed with the previous cocktail lounge operation. ## Conditional Use Appeal - Michael Ecton [timestamp: 00:00] The board considered agenda item III.D.2, a conditional use appeal submitted by Michael Ecton requesting permits to establish a plant nursery and extend regulations for the A-R (Agricultural-Residential) portion of his property. Doug Martin and Michael Ecton served as the key speakers during the discussion of this conditional use request. The proposal involved establishing a commercial plant nursery operation on Ecton's property, which required conditional use approval due to the agricultural-residential zoning designation. The request specifically sought to: - Obtain conditional use permits for operating a plant nursery business - Extend existing A-R zoning regulations to cover the applicable portion of the property While the extracted data indicates this item was discussed at the beginning of the meeting, the specific details of the presentation, any concerns raised by board members, public comments, or conditions attached to the approval were not captured in the available materials. The board ultimately approved Michael Ecton's conditional use appeal, allowing him to proceed with establishing the plant nursery operation under the requested regulatory framework. This approval enables Ecton to operate a commercial nursery business on his agriculturally-zoned property in compliance with local zoning requirements. The approval of this conditional use permit represents the board's determination that the proposed plant nursery use is compatible with the surrounding agricultural-residential area and meets the necessary criteria for conditional use approval in this zoning district. --- ## Decisions - **PLN-BOA-18-00081** — passed (6-0): Variance to reduce the required setback for a swimming pool from 30 feet to 10 feet at 223 Glendover Road - **PLN-BOA-18-00080** — passed (6-0): Conditional use permit to operate a farm gift shop at 3295 Spy Coast Lane - **PLN-BOA-18-00085** — passed (6-0): Conditional use permit for a place of religious assembly and variance to reduce the required front setback for a parking lot from 20 feet to 10 feet - **PLN-BOA-18-00082** — passed (6-0): Administrative appeal to change one non-conforming use (cocktail lounge) to another non-conforming use (florist) - **PLN-BOA-18-00083** — passed (5-2): Conditional use permits to establish a plant nursery and extend the regulations for the A-R portion of the lot 50 feet beyond the zone line --- ## Full transcript Music Good afternoon. ladies and gentlemen we are going to start the board of adjustment meeting for january 14th 2019 first i'll do is i'm i'm going to go ahead and approve the minutes from our december 10th meeting from last year um staff has sent those around and everyone have an opportunity to review those um if there are no questions or revisions to be made then i will entertain a motion approval i've got a first motion to approve i second it we have a second um any discussion on the motion hearing done then i'll call to a vote motion passes the amendments are approved the next items i'm going to go through today's agenda we'll start with asking whether or not there's anyone that has an application pending before us today that would like to request a withdrawal or postponement okay seeing none that what i will do is i'm going to go ahead and call through each case and in which instance I will ask if the applicant is present and then whether there's anyone here in opposition wants to speak to the application before us if there are those cases will be heard last and we go in order of not opposed versus opposed so the first question the item on the docket is a variance appeal PLN BOA 18-81 Jeffrey and Catherine Wiseman I see the applicant is present is there anyone here who wants to speak on that matter today this is for two two three Glendover Road the next item is a conditional use appeal and it's PLM BOA 18-80 Spy Coast Farm Kentucky regarding three two nine five Spy Coast Lane is the applicant present thank you sir is there anyone here who wants to speak on this application today all All right. What have you heard second? The next item on the agenda is PLN BOA 18-83, Michael Ecton. Is the applicant present? Okay. And I presume that the room is here to speak on this matter. All right. We'll put this one down to be heard. The next item is PLN BOA 18-85, the Roman Catholic Bishop Diocese regarding a number of properties at Smith Street and at Jefferson Street. I see the applicant is present. Is there anyone here who wants to speak to that application today? And then we have an administrative review, PLNBOA 18-82, Ekman Properties, regarding 185 Eastern Avenue. Applicant is present. Anyone here who wants to speak on behalf of that matter? All right. So what we'll do is today we have quite a large audience, which is always good. What I generally do is I will allow the applicant to present its case if the staff has recommended approval, and then at which point we will give opportunity for the community at large and the public to speak. I usually limit that to three minutes per person unless you have an attorney representing you. in which case I give them more time for more formal presentation. But that way everyone has an opportunity to speak today, but also we're not here all evening. So if you would like to speak today, even if you decide to change your mind during the course of the hearing, I need to square you in. So if you could please rise and raise your right hand. You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I do. Thank you very much. So, with that being said, we'll take care of some of these easy ones first. The first one is PLM BOA 18-81. Jeffrey and Catherine Wiseman's request for a variance at 223 Glendover Road. Come on up, Ms. Wiseman. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. How's the project going? Slow, but it's going. Good. If you could, go ahead and state your names for the record for me. Catherine Wiseman. rick rushing thank you um the staff has recommended approval with a lesser variance are you agreeable to the lesser variants to reduce the required setback from 30 to 10. yes okay they have also requested uh two conditions to the approval today have you seen those yes and you're agreeable to those yep okay um this is for the i believe the pool in the yard um they were here before us last month does anyone on the board have any questions or for the applicant at this time I was just wondering how what's your setback from your neighbor on Glendova Road how far back is the that that is on the next street it's edge Edgemoor. Edgemoor. I'm sorry, Edgemoor. That's okay. You've got it at six. There's a 10-foot easement that comes in in the middle of that property line, but the pool was going to be a minimum six feet. From the property line? Yes. Thank you. Any additional questions or comments? Hearing none, the chair will entertain a motion. Good morning. I move for approval of PLNBOA 18-81, Jeffrey and Catherine Wiseman, the request for variance to reduce the required setback for a swimming pool from 30 feet to 10 feet within the defined infield and redevelopment area in a single-family residential zone at 223 Glendova Road, based on the staff's recommendations and also subject to the two conditions listed by staff. Thank you, Ms. Carter. Do I have a second? Mr. Needham seconds. We are having a slight technical difficulty with Ms. Meyer being able to log in. So all those in favor, please register your votes. And Ms. Meyer, you'll have to verbally say. Aye. Ms. Meyer says aye. All right. Your application passes. Good luck continuing your project. Thank you. This brings us to the next item on our agenda, which is PLM BOA 18-80, Spy Coast Farm, Kentucky's request for a conditional use permit at 3295 Spy Coast Lane. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Please state your name for the record. Sam Carneal on behalf of the applicant, Spy Coast Farm, Kentucky, LLC. you all right well the staff has recommended approval today and it is subject to three conditions as your client we're in agreement with the conditions all right thank you sir anyone on the board have any questions for mr corneal this is the structure that we um we gave a conditional use for earlier in the year no that's a different structure this is an arena it's an indoor arena that was existing prior to the rehab rehabilitation facility that you authorized last year there was a new building built I see yeah to the south of this is just south of it yeah this is it's a gift shop that's going in the existing viewing area of the indoor arena so they're just cordoning off part of the existing space okay thank you any other questions well hearing none i will entertain a motion mr chair i recommend approval of pnl boa 1880 spikos farm kentucky requesting a condition use permit to operate a form gift shop as an accessory use in the agricultural rural zone at 3295 speed coast spike coast lane based on the staff recommendation and subject to the three three conditions that are that are listed so move I've got a first do I have a second miss Whitman seconds any discussion Hearing none, then I'll call it to a vote. Aye. And it's unanimous. Thank you. Application is approved. Good luck. The next item on the agenda to be unopposed is PLM BOA 18-85, the Roman Catholic Bishop Diocese regarding a conditional use permit at 427, 429, 431, 435, 437, and 441 Smith Street and 432 Jefferson Street. Good afternoon, gentlemen. If you could state your names for the record. Father Norman Fisher. Fred Eastridge with ECSI. Thank you, guys. We have one letter. Is that a letter in opposition? I think it's a letter. Okay, so we have one letter of support that's passing down through the board. The staff has recommended approval today based upon seven conditions. Have you had an opportunity to read those conditions? Yes, sir. And you're agreeable to them? Absolutely. Okay. Does anyone on the board have a question for the applicant? Mr. Chair, I have a question. In looking at the map and also on a Google map, that driveway is very narrow and very, very close to both houses that it divides. And I'm a little concerned about that. That seems like almost an imposition on the houses on both sides. Is there some reason why that driveway is necessary? Yes, sir. The driveway goes out onto a two-way street. The other street is a one-way. The lot is 25 feet wide, and our driveway is 12 to 15 feet. So there's going to be screening along both sides. And the use of it is going to be, as with the church, going to be very rarely during Sundays, Saturday evening, and Wednesdays. And evening is when it would be used. So it shouldn't be too much of an imposition. And the church is working on trying to acquire the house. Working on that. Is there some reason why the new parking area can't go through the existing parking area? It would be troublesome because it's offset so much. It becomes some to get people weighing through there. It would be better if we had that access. that provide more safety for getting in and out and two accesses in and out. Yeah, I kind of agree. I think the access should probably come in and out of the original existing parking lot. It seems odd to take that down just in between two houses. I understand you're trying to purchase the lot adjacent to it, I guess assuming the lot in between your existing parking lot and the new drive. That's correct. If you had that lot, would that radically change this parking layout? It would expand the existing parking lot and probably change that. If that house was acquired, would that be the thought to rework this plan? I'd say it would. I'd say it would, sir. Yeah. Okay. And then I noticed where I read that, you know, the parking lot across the street was no longer available. Is that correct? It's owned by Transy, and they're having plans, which I don't know about. But they've grandfathered us in to make use of their plot, their lot, for a while until we don't know when. But they've been very gracious, and they're the ones who are helping us to sell this other property to us. So they're very gracious. Okay. And then what does the screening on Smith Street look like? Is that going to look? On Smith Street? Yes. It's going to be a three-foot-high hedge and a tree over 40 feet. Okay. And then a wooden fence or no fence? We hadn't planned to put a fence up at this time. Okay, that's fine. Yeah. I think that actually is probably better. i have a question about there's a uh a reference made in the staff report about possibly would you be willing to possibly share this parking lot with other businesses or trancy in the area when i mean you the use of the parking lots on sundays mainly and saturday nights and wednesday nights we've been really open to events or anybody would like to park there we've sort of been especially events down jefferson street soiree or when west six has an event we just sort of we love our neighbors and we don't fence off so the existing parking lot is available for use and you would continue that yeah we don't even charge yeah i think that i would i would like to see that too if you're going to build a parking like this in the neighborhood with residential homes typically if you would accommodate other businesses that would need it from time to time. That makes reasonable sense. Absolutely. Have you talked to the neighbors who live in the two houses that are adjacent to the new driveway? Have you talked to them? I think the one that we're hoping to acquire. At least one of them, we've been working through a realtor for a long time. But simply about asking them how they feel about the driveway. I have not. They have been notified and it's given us a plan and a notification, sir. Okay. And does traffic engineering have any issue with the driveway going through the two houses? I mean the lot in between the two houses? It's not really required. There's adequate distance to use the two existing points. so it's not a safety issue. The measurements and everything are fine, so if you wanted to eliminate it, that would be just fine. Sir, the church, if it's deemed appropriate by the Board of Adjustment, they would be willing to, at this time, to not do the driveway, but the church would really like to have it. Does that drive require lighting? No. It does not. Would there be lighting put in? Could be. There would be lighting on the parking lot. Absolutely. Shoebox type lighting going on. Right, but on the drive? We wouldn't do that because of the houses. Any additional comments or questions? Are people still contemplating? Okay. Mr. Clark? I'm fine. Thank you. Well, in that instance, unless there are any more points or discussions, the chair will entertain a motion. I move we approve the PLNBOA 18-85 Roman Catholic Bishop Diocese request for a conditional use permit for a place of religious assembly in order to expand parking for an existing church and a request for a variance to reduce the required front setback for a parking lot from 20 to 10 feet in a high-density apartment R4 zone at 427, 429, 431, 435, 437, and 441 Smith Street and 432 Jefferson Street, based on staff's recommendations subject to the seven conditions that staff has outlined. Thank you, Mr. Needham. I second the motion. Ms. Whitman seconds. Any discussion on the motion? Hearing none, then I'll call the vote. Your application is passed. Good look at your project, gentlemen. God bless you. Thank you so much. The next unopposed item on our agenda will be PLN BOA 18-82, Ekman Properties, request for administrative appeal to change one not conforming use to another at 185 Eastern Avenue. Sir? Hello. if you could state your name for the record William Wood Mr. Wood the staff has recommended approval do we have a letter in support that's being passed along the board the staff has based their approval on four conditions and so number one is what relationship to the property owner I represent Edmund property okay and then as your client seen and approved the four conditions that the staff has recommended yes we do okay does anyone on the board have a question for mr. wood I don't have any questions I just want to say that was an exciting project I was happy to see you know the variety of things going into the area variety of businesses so great we appreciate that thank you yep i too and enjoy seeing that um i just i drove by it the other day and it looked like the actual florist was occupied was open he got moved out early he was planning on february 1st and he had to move in and so he kind of in there moving his stuff and getting set up so we are he was forced out of winchester road this one yes i'm familiar with that so he was confident he was going to get approval he was confident and then i got the phone call i'm like what right so at that time he had the key and you know we don't frequent all the properties like we should but that was kind of a surprise to us as well so we let him know you know pending on what happens here and then the on-site parking street parking is sufficient for their employees and the owners okay and is the parking in the just so i can i'm sorry here just the details it'll have what one two three four five six park is that six parking spaces in the lot and is there any handicap space required there there there's not uh we do have a wider space that's going to be up close to the building and that parking lot is not built okay until we get approval for that again there's no traffic uh 90 of his business is over the phone or internet he says he has about maybe one to three customers in a week's time they come in most of his catering projects and weddings and events like that. He has vans that deliver the product. He has one van, yes, sir. And there's an existing side piece, as you're looking at the building to the right, that can sit in off the street. That's where the van will park. Uh-huh. Yep. Okay. Any additional questions? All right. Hearing none, then the chair will entertain a motion. I move to approve PLN BO 18-82 Ekman Properties' request for an additional administrative appeal to change one non-conforming use cocktail lounge to another non-conforming use florist in a planned neighborhood residential R3 zone at 185 Eastern Avenue for the reasons recommended by staff and subject to the four conditions outlined by staff. We have a first. Do we have a second? I'll second the motion. Ms. Whitman seconds. Any discussion on the motion? Hearing none, I'll call a vote. Your application is approved. Good luck with the project. Thank you. Okay, so this brings us to our next item. We are going to move on to the items to be heard. We have one of those today, which is PLM BOA 18-83 Michael Ecton's request for a conditional use permit at 191 Swigger Avenue. Come on up, gentlemen. Oh, Swigert. Mr. Martin, once you get up to the podium, if you and your client can introduce yourselves for the record. Thank you. Thank you. I'm Doug Martin, and I'm here representing Mike Eklund. Mike Eklund, sorry. Yes. That was the last one. You want to give your hand? I look at 38, 37, Carlton Drive, Lexington. And it looks like you have some handouts for us? Yep. All right. Come on up. Thank you. And as a friendly reminder, we try to keep council to 15 minutes. I'll do my best. I appreciate that. Mr. Chair, I did distribute letters for this one. There are about 14 or 15, I think, so you may want to take a couple minutes. Okay. That's a good idea. We will, I guess we recess if we're taking five or ten minutes. Yeah, we'll go ahead and recess while we flip through the letters in opposition. Mr. Martin, have you had an opportunity to look at these? Most of them, yes. Okay. Well, if you want, we'll give you an opportunity to look through them before we restart. And there's a response from the client in the back of the handout I gave you. Okay. Thank you, sir. Thank you. We will take ten-minute recess. Thank you. If everyone could take their seat, we'll bring us out of recess. Thank you for your patience. We had a number of letters and emails to go through. We want to have an opportunity for those who couldn't be here today to make sure their voices were put in the record. And so we'll come back, and we were getting ready. mr martin had already introduced himself and at this point we'll let mr martin give his presentation thank you mr chair members of the order of adjustment i'm doug martin and i'm here today representing mr mike ecton and this is for 191 swigert avenue i'm going to read i guess direct your attention to the board of adjustment staff case report so this requests a conditional use permit to establish a plant nursery and to extend the regulations for the AR portion of the lot 50 feet beyond the zone line to the remaining R1B portion of the lot in order to conduct the plant nursery use on the R1B portion at a split zone property and so this is both AR agricultural and R1B and the relevant ordinances are referenced in the staff case report and I just direct your attention to that. So I'm going to walk you through the property. I guess what you mean walk you through the staff recommendations or you have that to? I think an overview of the property first would be beneficial. So this property is out in Parris Pike. This is on Swigert Avenue and is in the Joyland neighborhood and this is really the the border between the urban area of Lexington and farmland at some point I'm not sure the history the property was was rezoned to R1B there's some R1C down there on further on down and in in In the Joyland neighborhood proper, there's some R2 as well. And so there's been quite a bit of an extension of density into the rural farmland over the years. And so this is the very edge of what we think of as the city. So this is the border between the city and the county. Now, there's a little bit of confusion about this is from the PVA's zoning map, and this is not accurate. 191 is the part that extends down to where it says 189 and then there's that little driveway on the other side the red box down there on swagger that's actually 189 and it's not a part of this if you this is actually the what the what the property is i've got a copy of the uh of the of the plat for this if anybody wants to see it It is purchased in May 2005. My client was mistaken that he could grow and keep trees and bushes in an agricultural AR zone. The R1B is on the front side of the property. If you look, a lot of the R1B is actually sort of really mixed use. We have small houses up there further on Swiger, 256, 58, 60, and 62 are really divided into very small residential lots. Other parts of it are larger basically houses and farms. If you'll see in the whole area, you have some big open spaces. and a lot of those are zoned residential. The applications for conditional use to establish a plant nursery and also to extend the AR zone basically 50 feet. The pre-existing barn is located in the R1B zone. I think this would be a pre-existing use, but we would ask that the 50 feet be extended so he doesn't have to take his stuff out of the barn. the applicant's business is the design and installation of landscaping projects for commercial developments so the the applicant mr eckton doesn't have any offices on the property he doesn't use the property for retail he didn't bring his commercial clients there he basically keeps the plant material for landscaping projects on the farm and we'll see that examples of mr eckton's commercial projects include the provision living at beaumont and and the Whitaker family YMCA. There's an artist rendering of the provision living at Beaumont, it's in my neighborhood, and the Whitaker family YMCA. So let me walk you through the Swigert neighborhood and Mr. Echton's farm. So this is the entrance of 191 Swigert Avenue. I took this from the driveway across the street. You'll notice the telephone pole over to the right You'll hear a little bit about the fact that Mr. Ecton gets about a delivery a month, about eight times a year, seven, eight times, of bulk plant material, trees and bushes. And you can't park too far on the shoulder because you have that telephone pole there. So in a couple hours where the truck makes a delivery, you've got a truck sort of blocking this area here. They don't block the whole road. although it's a little less than half of Swigert Avenue for a couple hours, maybe once a month, something like that. This is looking east to Parris Pike. Swigert is an old country road. I want to show you this house because this is one of the few pictures I could find that actually shows Mr. Egton's barn behind. property generally isn't you can't really see it from from swigert avenue uh there's not much you can see there uh of the farm and so it's it's pretty much shielded by the topography but also from the houses and trees and and landscaping that's there but that little black blotch and back behind the tree that's sort of the part of his barn there are small houses houses really of all different sizes this is the corner of paris pike and swigert some are very large estate houses and this is on the corner so going back to uh the front of uh mr ecton's property this is swigert Avenue looking west. Again, same thing. It's a country road. You can barely see a house there on the left there. You'll hear a lot about trucks and things like that, blocking swagger. Well, I was out there for about an hour to take some pictures on Friday, and sure enough, there was a dump truck taking a lot of effort to get into somebody else's driveway. They're just small, tiny driveways, and it's hard to get stuff in and out. but Mr. Ecton is certainly by far not the only person who has has stuff out there it's a it's farmland a lot of horse vans and hay wagons and stuff like that the Guru Dwarah Sikh temple and I hope I pronounced that correctly in respect to the temple is located just a short drive down swiger and you know it generates its own amount of traffic as well you have these are the residential lots i sort of pointed to you earlier on the on the plat and they add density you get more houses you get more density density creates traffic all these people have it's private sanitation and garbage out there so various people hire different sanitation companies several different garbage trucks come down the road each week they got fedex deliveries ups deliveries mail deliveries so it's increased density in reference to folks parking on the side this was out there the whole time i was out there kind of taking pictures and stuff people parked on the side of the road on swiger If the audience, please do not comment. You will have an opportunity to speak and rebut anything that Mr. Martin says. But I clearly see a car parked on the road, just for the record. During the hour I was here, this person parked on the side of the road. I'll say that. So anyway. And this is the other end of Swigert. This is an estate-sized home and things like that. So lots of variety on Swigert Avenue. Taking you back to the entrance again, this is 191 Swigert, this is Mr. Echman's farm. So I'm going to take you back. There's a small tenant house on the property. And so this is I think in the AR part of the property. This is standing next to the barn looking towards Swigert Avenue. And if I could, this house, Red Brick House, for the audience, if I can get it that far, is owned by Mr. Ecton, and so he is a tenant in that house. I believe the house in between is 177, and that's a homeowner that lives in it, but it looks like a one-story house, but it doesn't seem to have windows at front on, at least where I was standing. And then I think that's 169 on the end. And that has an upstairs, the upstairs can clearly see, and I think the folks, the objectors are going to bring quite a few pictures and things like that, taking from that upstairs. So they have some visibility. We've offered to plant, I guess, pine trees, Norwegian spruces to help with that view scape. and we're happy to do that. Mr. Martin, real quickly, if we could go back to the entrance. If you could pull the entrance photo back up. Yep. If you don't mind. Okay, is there any plan, because I note that Mr. Ecton does own 191 Squigert Avenue and 189. I think this is 189, the Red House. Yeah, and he owns that too. Is there any plan to widen that entrance to allow easier time for the trucks to park on the property rather than park on Squigert Avenue? The problem is the telephone pole. So I went out and I took all kinds of pictures of that telephone pole. and I'm not sure you can make that turn along that telephone pole there that's it's you know maybe eight feet from that I know the staff have have required that we satisfy the the traffic engineering folks is that okay well I may ask them at some point to weigh in but go ahead with your presentation but yeah yeah so Can we stop for just a second? The driveway that's into Mr. Eklund's property, I see, you know, is that right on the property line? Is that barn someone else's property? yeah the tree that you see toward the left toward that red trailer that tree is sort of the property line and I don't know whether you can see but there's a second driveway right there so this is mr. Eklund's driveway and it and it actually leads on further back there's a I guess a cell tower in the very back of the property that is at least I guess or yeah yeah So I guess I'm a little confused, you know, looking at the aerial, and are these trucks able to kind of wind around that driveway and go into the back and unload or not? Well, there's a couple issues, and I may have to have Mike sort of address this, but the first is making the turn itself. so the he gets basically eight deliveries a year that come on either a long gooseneck or a Mack truck they buy he buys in bulk trees and bushes it's not every week it's not three times a week it's maybe about once a month during the growing season and in it's making that turn once you get in there though they really go forward mac trucks don't back up a whole lot they go forward and so there's not really place to turn around back there um and so if you can so there's a couple of logistics one is uh uh you know the the the the utility pole that's sitting there and the second is is the the truck actually turning around once it gets back there but i'd i'd submit to you that they If you look at all the UPS deliveries and the FedEx deliveries and the garbage truck and things like that, it's there for a couple hours, maybe once a month. It does not block, and we'll talk about this more later, does not block school buses, emergency vehicles. You've got to go around it, but in my neighborhood, I live in Beaumont, you have to go around those things all the time. I have 1,200 units in Beaumont, and on any given day, there's a moving truck out in front of somewhere. and you have to go around them the same thing in Chevy Chase when someone moves in Chevy Chase they're there for a whole day all right so I understand somewhat the the entrance problem but with ten acres in the back if there's no way for them to swing around and drive on out well I mean you'll have to do some improvements to do that obviously so let me show you in back and we can we can keep that in mind as well but that's not a small issue getting around the telephone pole it would have to be moved I think I'd love to you know someone knows more about turning radiuses and things like that but so so this is this is sort of the side of the barn I want just want to give you a view of of the houses that front on Swigert between us and Swigert Avenue and this is the barn that's that's my Jeep out in front of the barn so so and this gets pretty much beat up back there because they are moving dirt at one point I think one applicants has a video that they may show you when the when the complaint was first filed Mr. Eklund had to move a bed that was actually between the barn and 169 swagger so they picked a lot of dirt up and moved it back into the AR zone so they try to move whatever plants they had in the R1B zone back to the AR zone so but this is where they load and stuff and we'll see more of this I'm gonna go go a little quicker so I know I'm a deadline this is to the actually immediately behind the barn and and some of the some of the folks complain about having fires close to the barn well if you'll see right there and then way down there that's the piles that one of the some of the piles they're talking about and you know like any farm they get piles of debris it's branches and bushes and shrubs and things like that this is some of the equipment they use a front end loader is used to pick up these large heavy trees they can't be moved by hand they're transported to a job site using trailers we have a truck i'm not sure what that truck's for what's the white truck for i'm sorry just a hall tree yeah so this is a sign the barn's in bad shape it was in bad shape in 2015 when he bought it i think there's some roof damage before he bought it And so, but this is the main sort of area. This is behind that tenant house that I showed you. And if you see back to the right, it's kind of a long, narrow lot. And you can see that on the site plan. And keeps trees and bushes. This is kind of looking east to see that's the barn in back. Now there's a second barn on the next property. That white roof you can see, that's not ours. is the black barn. So this is, I'm standing sort of the side of that gravel area where they had the small shrubs and kind of near the front of the barn, or I guess it would be the back side of the barn. You can see there's a pile of rubbish back there, which you can actually see on the 2013 PVA map. So that's been there quite a while. It's a very long and narrow farm. Nobody sees this from Swigert Avenue at all. The folks who live in that one house probably see that from their upper floor. But I think that the Norwegian spruces that we put there, there's a cell tower in back. This is a shot because I think it's going to be a source of objections of the pile of trees and stuff like that. There's some talk about, well, he leaves fires unintended. Well, my brother lives at my parents' house. He has that out in Woodford County. And when he does a bonfire, it burns for about a week. You get six, eight hours of sort of big stuff, but then just kind of simmers for a week. That's the way things are but this obviously has not been put on fire this was a video and and I it doesn't work on your all system it worked on my system maybe one of the objectors there's a lot of moving around you see the the the loader moving stuff back and forth and this is I think from the 169 swiger this is the project of taking the the bed from in front of the of the barn and moving it and creating new beds and back and so there's a lot of dirt being moved that day there we go i want to walk you very briefly through some plans and studies this is significant the paris pike small area plan says protect preserve and enhance agricultural uses within in the rural service area. It wants folks to discourage unregulated non-agricultural residential development, encourage rural economic development through the support of agricultural production and to buffer rural land and activities from the impact of new urban development. So one of the issues today is who wins? Is it going to be houses or farms? These are houses on the very edge of the country and the folks want to move to the country but they don't want things to happen that happen in the country which is you know burning piles of sticks and branches and stuff the land uses within the lexion and urban county county agricultural rural transition zone should remain agricultural with only farmsteads and state top residential permitted well the houses that have sprung up on on swigert can't be built anymore and the reason is is because the density they create herps farmland folks bring all this extra density to the to the country and once they get there they don't like the things that happen in the country and you're going to hear a lot of that today the 2013 comprehensive plan any credible economic development plan for fad county must feature agriculture and its cluster of related businesses and services as a principal component of prosperity the agricultural clusters accounts directly or indirectly for one out of nine jobs in Lexington the intent of the AR zone which is what this is an application for is to preserve the rural character of the agricultural service area by promoting agriculture and related uses and by discouraging all forms of urban development except for a limited amount of conditional uses. So who wins? Farms or houses? That's really the decision today. The 2017 Rural Service Area Land Management Plan update. The best preservation tool for the rural service area are those that keep the agricultural economy viable and strong. agribusiness is the group of industries dealing with agricultural produce and services required in farming local businesses that support a farming operation extend a tremendous economic impact of agriculture beyond the farm this is the core agricultural land use category recommendations support local agriculture and family farms recognize the full importance of the agricultural cluster and the core agricultural land the policy emphasis for land use in this category is preservation and enhancement of the land for agricultural purposes in order to ensure the continued viability of the local agricultural economy there's a category in the 2017 update small lot residential these residential developments exist in the rural domain as urban anomalies most are self-detained subdivisions while a few are clusters of small lots along rural roads that's what we have on swigert avenue clusters of small lots along rural roads slr's have the potential to create adverse conditions for adjoining agricultural activities due to their suburban development pattern traffic generation, septic facilities on small tracks, and conflicts between farm operations and subdivision owners, property owners, and their household pets. So on the staff recommendations, we have a couple of requests, and this is my last slide. There's stated hours of operation, and we put that in the applicant statement, but these are sort of the general things. Sometimes they go later on a day. Project runs long, are they going to allow to bring their trucks back? Mr. Eckman asked me, well, are we going to violate our conditional use permit if we bring our trucks back at 430? So we would ask that we delete the required hours of operation. He's not going to be out there at night. We'll agree he's not going to run the loader at night or on Sundays. They don't usually work on Saturdays. They come in the morning. they load up trees and they go out to a site and they bring everything back in the late afternoon it's usually by four o'clock sometimes it's a little later sometimes a little earlier there's a uh we'd like some additional time for the zoning compliance permit and certificate of occupancy and i guess i'd throw this to the planning staff the asphalt plants don't open till march there's nothing we can do as far as paving before march or april whenever they open up So we're happy to throw some gravel down and that kind of thing, but the paving doesn't open up until then. So the last thing I want to leave you with is this is the aerial from Google Earth of the Joyland neighborhood. And 191 Swigert is way at the top, way up there in the farmland, way up the top. And so as you listen to the objectors today, I want to remember this slide and ask yourself, where's the traffic coming from? Where's the density coming from? Is it coming from a plant nursery or is it coming from all these people who've moved out into the country? And so we think that a plant nursery is a pretty darn low impact use as far as things go. but all the garbage trucks and all the UPS trucks and school buses and all that's traffic people driving back and forth to work people taking their kids to school to see school activities or see friends there's a lot of there's a lot of traffic out there but it it does you know yeah there's they drive they take trucks to jobs from a plant nursery but compared to all this, there's far less density on my client's 10 acres than this. This is where the traffic comes from. So I appreciate your patience, and I welcome any questions. Don't go anywhere, because I'm sure there's some questions for you. Mr. Glover? Doug, is the only entrance to this property off of Swigert Avenue? Yes. And that's true of the way these lots are done. It's true of all the lots off Swiger. There's just the one entrance on Swiger. I won't speak for everybody, but from what I've seen, there's no roads going behind any of these farms. They're long, narrow tracks. I want to have a couple questions for staff and traffic engineering, but Doug, stay close because you may need a challenge. I'll stand right here. first for staff given the presentation would you still consider this a plant nursery underneath the code the ordinance a landscaping business is not exactly the same thing as a plant nursery and it's something that is not as defined as a plant nursery in our ordinance I think the key difference perhaps between a traditional plant nursery and what this operation does is the frequency of plants coming in and out on a project-by-project basis is something that makes it a little bit different. If this is not a plant nursery, it's a landscaping business, does a landscaping business need a conditional use permit in the AR? Yes, we did determine that this would be the appropriate conditional use for this. An agricultural use would be growing plants here, but since we have the component of the coming in and out and the landscape business, that's sort of what triggers it as not just an agricultural use that would be allowable by right. Okay, so the staff still takes position this would be a plant nursery? Yes. Okay, thank you. I just want to make that clear for the record. In the second item, for traffic engineering on the entrance, what are your thoughts and concerns, and can that entrance, do you think, be modified to address heavier trucks going to move in and out? A couple of concerns that we have is there is a curve leading up just prior to this entrance, although slight you do have a slight bend in the road which serves magnifies any obstruction sitting there we did pull records traffic engineering issues what's called lane blockage permits there has not been a single lane blockage permit issued for this address so these trucks are parking illegally on the road creating a hazard anytime you park in a lane you need a permit we require appropriate signage it is covered by federal guidelines of from the manual of uniform traffic control devices and is for the safety of not only the people working there but all the also the public that's a driving because you don't anticipate a vehicle sitting there in a nine-foot lane i say nine foot lane because the approximate width of swagger is 18 to 20 feet so you can take the width of a semi or a flatbed truck or just a 16 foot box truck or as the applicant has stated a gooseneck truck and that width is going to be approximately eight feet wide unless you're loading out the end of it you're also blocking the second lane when you come swing around it with your equipment to drive into the lane the aerial photograph pulled up on PVA we could see there's a fire hydrant sitting right in front of that utility pole so we were able to get a pretty accurate distance between that and the pine tree that's there it's approximately 15 to 20 feet at least I've had a couple of measurements ranging from 15 to 20 all the way up to 25 feet that is a pine tree right there by the green garbage can we see no reason that tree cannot come out and widen to a commercial entrance the maximum commercial entrance would be 30 feet I don't know that you need a 30-foot entrance but there does need to be some improvements there was reference to asphalt plants being closed our commercial entrances are required to concrete there is we are everybody government is currently doing concrete jobs right now so it's not temperature dependent unless it's just one of those bone-chilling northern fronts that come through but there is plenty you can you can build concrete entrances throughout the year and there's no problem there's additives you can put the concrete and to make those changes so the closure of the asphalt plants makes no difference the 50-foot But distance off the road is a distance that we came up with based on the length of, say, a dually pickup truck and a 16 to 20 foot long truck. Gooseneck trucks are usually pulled by dualies or larger vehicles. So, say, a Chevrolet Silverado 3500 or a Ford F350. They're a bigger, longer truck. and so that's the type of vehicle that we anticipate. Being a 20-foot wide entrance and a 5-foot flare on each side, you should be able to fit between the utility pole and the existing property line as well as having the proper turn radius to make the turn into the property, get off the road to provide a safe access for the public, not obstruct the right-of-way. This is for a Mack truck? the applicant had 16 foot gooseneck that was what was stated in that those type of vehicles now if you're bringing a 52 foot semi into this property that's a totally different i want to let you know that see the gooseneck we can get back there it's the it's the mac truck that that these folks will have an objection to so the mac truck is the one that we're we're talking about trying to make because that's what's delivered approximately once a month during the growing season. A Mack truck really is not definitive. Are you talking a 52 foot long trailer? Or are you talking a dump truck? Because that was a Mack truck that was backing into the... No, that's not our property. That's somebody else's property. I understand that. But that's a Mack truck as well. Hey, Mr. Martin, maybe Mr. Ecton could explain to us for traffic engineering what kind of, or you can, Is it a semi-truck, an 18-wheeler semi-truck? Okay. If it's an 18-wheeler, it should be able to make a 30-foot entrance because that's what we have for McDonald's, for other commercial properties. We have a 30-foot wide entrance for those, and a 52-foot long trailer can make a 30-foot turn. If anything's smaller, it should be able to make a 20- or 25-foot turn. in a 30-foot this property would you think will do that it'll allow for that wide of an entrance yes okay based on he on the drawing that is supplied there's 30 feet going back on this property line and then the applicant also owns the adjacent property that driveway is shared apparently with the house in the picture. Thank you, sir. Any more questions for Mr. Martin or the applicant at this time? Thank you. We'll bring you up for rebuttal. Thank you. Okay. Before we start with the public, does the staff want to add anything at this time? you can say no I don't think we have anything that at this time but we're happy to answer any questions okay thank you okay now ladies and gentlemen who would like to speak today please raise your hand all right so usually what we will do is if you guys occasionally there is an informal spokesperson for a group who kind of has you know a lot of points to get across we would like that person to come forward first and then give them an opportunity to speak give the presentation and then what we would normally do is limit the rest of discussions to about three minutes and essentially we'll just line you up on that side of the room and then you come up take each one of you'll have an opportunity at the end of that mr. Martin will have an opportunity but your testimony and then we'll close the hearing for public comments and we may still have additional comments we'll bring people up as we determine to make ask follow-up questions but at that point we'll be between the boards so who would like to be these unofficial spokesperson come on up ma'am and then please if you don't mind state your name for the record my name is Stephanie Bray I live at 169 Swigert that would be the house of the white picket fence that the lawyer referred to as the shield if I could ask you about the Eckton PowerPoint. Sorry, you've already got up partly. So just for the record, as you said, he's already shown the photos, you know, location of our house. Just to know, we are not new to this neighborhood. The house we live in was built in the 1900s. I've lived here for a combined total of 30 years since my husband and I lived in our own house for seven years prior to moving with my mother and sister five years ago. This house has been my family since the 1950s. My grandparents purchased it. My father grew up there. My parents subsequently purchased it. So I grew up there. So Mr. Ecton claims this proposed usage of this property as a plant nursery will have a substantially lower impact on the surrounding area than other potential agricultural uses that he can make of this property. But the 65 plus years my family has lived in this house, we have never had any issues with the daily activities of our agricultural neighborhoods. That was until this business appeared one morning in the field behind our house. As Mr. Ecton already explained, there's two houses, 189 and 191. Prior to 1989, 1988, they were considered one property. always historically the landowner lived at 189 and then would have rent out the tenant house so it kind of clarified a little this confusion with the two addresses are there you know since the time he purchased his properties we have never personally met him this is actually the first time i've ever actually been in a room with mr ecton we heard rumors that someone had purchased these properties to operate their commercial landscaping service from and they planned it out to rent both houses so we first began to notice this commercial activity on the property directly behind us we were confused as a review of public records show the note that the property deed and mortgage were all in the name of him and his wife no business was registered that address we've received no notice of any business requesting a zoning compliance permit for that location and there was no business name printed on the size of the truck that we saw come and go we were able to locate online that there was a business registered his name with his office listed his home address called Wildcat Lawn and Landscape LLC and we assumed that this was activities that we were seeing. So obviously they showed the location of our house. You kind of understand as he referred to it, we're kind of ground zero, so we see everything going back here. As you'll notice, my photos are significantly different because his pictures were taken recently and I was also the one who filed the complaint in November because we've sort of been patient with this, but it just continued to escalate. Mr. Exton claims that the only activity performed this property is it's used as a plant nursery to store and grow shrubs, trees, and other plant materials. However, that description does not match the activities we have observed there. In addition to the plants we come and go that are stored in the property, none of these were planted. They all arrived pre-potted and bald and burlaped and labeled retail sale. We saw a commercial mowing service operating on the property with trucks and long trailers loaded with mowing equipment come and go. So he never mentioned that at one time we also were seeing commercial lawnmower service coming and going out of this. We reserved all these reappearing pallets of paving stones, piles of mulch, gravel, stacks of PVC pipe, drainage pipe. Other materials that were used in this landscaping business just haphazardly scattered all over the property. So I'm going to start showing you some pictures here. This is one a little bit different than the one I use. Okay, so I'm going to kind of go through some of these pictures. So you can see at any time there's a variety of trucks. Like he mentioned, the gooseneck trucks and the trailers come in. They are full-size semi-trailers. Some of my other neighbors will attest to that you park in the street. And, of course, you can see there's limited room once they get back here. But anytime, we have experienced all these trucks. And not only are they there when they're working, they leave them after they go home for the day. As you can see how close they are to our property. I mean, that truck is parked directly behind our fence. This is actually going to still be considered residential. The portion in front of the barn is not going to change. And also in addition to these, he also operated a snow removal service from the properties. Trucks with plows would come and go in the winter and load them up with salt while they were stored there. He has made no mention of this. We begin to question if any of this were permissible in the AR zone. So as you can see, when we have all these things going on, oops, I think I'm going the wrong way. Also addition as far as how much stuff is here, this is a picture taken in September of 2018. So as you can see all these trees that are back here in the background. When my mom actually called me and she's like, it looks like there's a Christmas tree farm moving in. What's going on back here because of significant stock? This is October 19th, so you can see the amount of stock that has moved in that period of time. Mr. Eckstein in his statement had mentioned they're only there typically an hour a day. This is not an hour a day's worth of work. This is November 9th. this is really what triggered me because huge amounts of trees were coming. Just like he mentioned a semi, he also failed to mention some of these trailers come in the middle of the night. They park out in the back and then they're unloaded. Once again, this was on December 15th. Once again, showing the amount of stock that has disappeared. This is what it looks like currently as far as the state of the actual plant material. Another thing Mr. Mexton doesn't mention, he talks about wood just being delivered. We started in November seeing these large tree service trucks pulled up right by house. They leave our chipper straighter there. Then you can see in the very background there, if you can notice there, that's where they've been dumping their pile. I counted at least five of these in a three-week period. This is what the pile looks like today. So significantly more than five trucks were coming in there. And as you can see, there's really not much room for them to turn around, so they've completely destroyed that area that's the grassy area. Mr. Ecton affirms in a statement that he purchased this property for the purpose of running his commercial landscape business, but even now we are not clear as to the name of this business operating this property. In a statement, Mr. Ecton never bothers to mention this. This past July we noticed he changed the name of his LLC to Ecton Nursery, added Wildcat Lawn Landscaping as a assumed name. In September, he also created a new LLC, Ecton Farm. These changes make us wonder what future business ventures he has planned for this property and fear that Mr. Exton will assume they are all permissible in the AR zone and covered by the umbrella of this conditional use permit if approved. Mr. Exton claims his statement in purchasing 191 swagger for his business. He was under the apparently mistaken belief that his business qualified as an agricultural use. Unfortunately, Mr. Exton failed to investigate local and state ordinances and made assumptions that their application to his business extends beyond just the zoning ordinance. According to the staff report, one of the reasons for the recommendation of approval is that all necessary public services are available and adequate for the proposed use. However, since our street is outside the urban service boundary, one such service that must be procured privately is trash pickup. Mr. Ecton has failed to ever secure such a service to properly dispose of the solid waste generated by his business. This includes all the plastic pots and shipping material associated with his prepackaged stocky purchases. Since Mr. Acton seems to be in the habit of assuming things and not checking audiences, his first method was to dispose of the waste by burning it. So, before I show the photo, just an example of the type of material, as you can see we're still in there. You'll see of course PVC pipes there. Actually the aerial views on the PVC website for cryptometry which I couldn't use with copyright, has some excellent views of what's going on there. Also, as you can see in the distance, he recently parked a camper behind his house. He just moved a truck that had been sitting out there three months. And of course he's got all these paving stones and other things. And since he says this is a business use, we must assume this is all related directly to his business. This is another example of the barn, which also is a concern this area here is actually going to remain residential. As you can see, he's been storing, it always changes. This time it was pallets, you know, sometimes there's pallets of sand, rocks, stones, various things. And we're also concerned, you know, if they're talking about want a semi truck to get in here as they were talking about how in the world that thing going to turn around i mean where's the room going to be at so we're going to get the first thing about burning um one case an out witnesses employees pulling sheets of of plastic bags balls and other non-organic material out of the barn and the trucks and tossing them into a fire this rubbish fire is substantiated by this fire report which clearly says that it was a rubbish fire. I don't know if you can read it well from there. The police were put in notice by the firemen that they would need a burn pit to proceed burning and that only natural materials were permitted. So now he's on notice that he cannot burn trash. Apparently he assumes that he can dispose of this waste directly on the property. So piles of trash and the breeze begin to appear. So then we have of course that. We have that and this is taken October 2017 this is in March of 2018 and if you notice those yellow bags and the white plastic I'll show the audience here those are the salt bags from the salt snow removal service he's leaving the winter so this stuff is all being disposed of directly the property and this is a conceit substantial I actually complained to the city in the summer 2017 about we're seeing back there but as you can see it continued to persist when I filed another complaint in November 2018 about his business operating there, I once again mentioned the trash. A few weeks later I saw his employees cleaning up the area of business from our property. And as you can see, these are the pictures that he chose to show. So it kind of looks clean there. This area here looks clean. However, what he felt to mention is they took all the debris and pushed it to a pile back at the fence line behind their barn. As you can clearly see from this pile, those are plastic pots that can hold water. It's completely full of non-organic material. This is a direct violation of two state ordinances. I doubt the state ever issued a permit for what he is doing. It says on the sheet from the environmental protection site it is illegal to throw trash in your property away without a permit. If somehow he procured a permit, he is in violation of this ordinance which says you have to cover up your trash. It cannot affect our health by tracking vermin, bugs, mosquitoes, rodents, and we even have coyote problems in our area. I just, you know, this, and you know, after complaining both these times, you know, like I said, I can only assume he had been put on notice, but just two weeks ago on January 3rd, I witnessed Mr. Acton use the bod cap to move a shed, an 8 by 10 metal shed on his on his property, his entire contents were beside the tenant house to a dump pile in the middle of the field. So that is what he was showing him. And I can tell you that was not there in 2013. 2013, if you look at the aerial views of pictometry, are nothing but brush. There's always sort of a brush. People who don't have farms will have what they call the burn pile. But as you can tell, this is not acceptable. And a couple of days later, his employees proceeded to throw more trash on top of this. You know, as you see, you can understand why we who live in what they call the shield are frustrated because this is the kind of stuff we see back there. And now we're going to go back to the issue of burning. You know, this is Mr. Ecton's method of disposing of all the expired plants and brush gathered on the property. And so here's an example of an incident report called my neighbor. It said, when the fire department arrived, Mr. Ecton was present on the scene. He advised the fireman that he had a pile of brush and one of his employees discarded a cigarette into the pile before leaving work yesterday. This is extremely disturbing. It shows gross negligence on both the part of his employee not to recognize the inherent dangers of discarding a cigarette into a brush pile, and negligence on Mr. X's part as the owner not to extinguish it immediately on discovery. You know, we all know what's happened in California and what's not to say this couldn't happen here? You know, if that's not bad enough, on another occasion, I was still at home one morning and noticed a strong smell of smoke come through my open window. I went to a window overlooking the field and was shocked to see they had ignited an enormous pile of brush at dead plants they had been accumulating for weeks. This. The firemen in the report say the size of the pile was approximately 20 by 40 feet. Ashes blew all the way to the window I was looking at. The firemen said they could see the smoke from miles away. This pile, as you saw in the previous picture, was in a close proximity to the barn and just a few hundred feet from her house. There was some confusion because of the different addresses, 189 and 191, as to whether he had a permit, and yes, indeed, it turned out he did. However, 10 minutes after starting the fire, Mr. Eckton and all of his employees left this burning. This fire is fully involved, and you can imagine the fear you have looking out there, realizing nobody is watching this. The same here, and it's probably harder to see, but when the firemen arrived, this is a window sill in my house and my upper stairs, so you can see how close this is to our house. As I spoke, I spoke with the firemen when they arrived. I gave him his name and what I thought was any of his business. So one of the dispatchers was finally able to locate a contact name for him and was called to advise to return the scene. The fire department rained the scene for more than an hour and placed approximately 500 gallons of water on this fire. After he finally returned, it reminded him that he was used small burnt areas and that he must maintain supervision of the area while the fire is burning, as you can see here on the fire report. Additionally, despite having advised the fire department, I can't really read all of this there, but there at the bottom, he says he stated when he was completed burning for the day, he was going to pile the area up and place dirt on the area to extinguish the fire. However, Mr. Eccleston's employees continued to burn not only that pile, but multiple fires for several days and still leave the property while they were smoldering. This is evident in this photo, taken nine days later on August 23rd. During that time, our neighborhood had endured this continuous noxious odors, as you can see from this pile of brush. Another thing that concerns me is this pile back here. If you remember earlier, this is where he had been throwing all that plastic trash from his snow removal business. It's kind of hard to see in this picture, but if you were to look at the aerial views, there's a spring kind of area right behind that pile that stays wet. The water washes over an access road to that cell phone tower. There's a waterway right back there between those horse farms, and it leads into our creek system. His negligence in not researching a potential watershed as property and the effects of illegal burning and dumping of all this trash in close proximity to such areas, not only affecting the neighborhood, but possibly the environment of the farms who depend on that water. Yeah, I don't know. I have another topic, but I don't know if at this point you want to kind of, I know I'm kind of talking fast and a little excited, but. Carry on. We'll interrupt you. Okay. Could you bring up the video called Bobcat? The PowerPoint Bobcat? Thank you. So Mr. Acton has kind of been discussing about this. Have you seen his skid steer loader? I'm surprised he didn't assert that that's the only piece of machinery they run on this property. You already saw the entry points that was in discussion as he's mentioned these large semi-trailers park out there. As you can see, here's the bobcat, must start at the road and bring those larger trees all the way up to the staging area behind her house. So here we are at that staging area. You can see that bobcats are carrying these larger trees. So you wonder yourself, how much effect does the daily operation of this little bobcat have on our surrounding properties? We'll play you this next one, hopefully the audio will play, the noise we hear six days a week. As he said, he's on Saturdays. As he's mentioned, we see him there on Sundays. This is what we hear starting every morning, 7.30 in the morning. Hopefully. It should have played. I thought I had it on autoplay. Did autoplay not work on that? I'm not sure if it was hopefully. Oh, there it is. Thanks. Well, I had to sit all over and automatically run. Oops. I was hoping that was going to run. I know when I set it up, it should have automatically opened. If it doesn't run, there's a constant, I don't know if you've ever heard of Bobcat, there's a constant beeping every time things back up. We're used to living outside here in metal locks, red-winged blackbirds, bluebirds, and here all we have is this noisy Bobcat. So you know why since you're not letting me keep on going to talk a little bit more about the traffic situation, like he mentioned where you need to make sure of the residential property and all these horse farms, or street is only 19 feet in width. So the width of this driveway apron is going to actually be wider than the width of this road. You know, it's never intended to handle more than an occasional white-weave vehicle and only intended for low volumes of traffic. I mean, I noticed he pictured that one day somebody was having delivery. I can tell you that's an anomaly. You know, even though we have horse farms, we're talking about occasional horse trailer traffic coming in and out of there. You know, nothing like daily traffic coming out there. You know, Mr. actually acknowledged in his statement there's multiple pickup trucks with that one 16-foot trailer at least enter and exit the property twice a day, six days a week. You know, and like he said, he also stated, on occasion, one of our employees will meet a delivery truck of the center property to unload plans. What he failed to explain on is these trucks are sometimes full-size semi-trollers that must be unloaded in the street. You know, there's also, he didn't mention these large-covered livestock trailers, like you saw all those pine trees, the brushes, the perennials. They come in the middle of the night. They will come, and one of our neighbors, you probably noticed from 177, the one that lives next to her, as mentioned, They'll come in the middle of the night, and we wake up in the morning, and there's this long, gooseneck-covered trailer out there. It arrives at 3.30 in the morning, disrupting the neighborhood so they can unload it in the morning. You know, and also, too, I didn't really take pictures because it took a lot of time for me to put this together, but our street has been destroyed this year by people getting off the road. As you imagine encountering one of these trucks in the road. Now, I'm sure he would have viewed that whether this damage is caused by his vehicles, But I can tell you the proximity of our houses to the road makes it difficult for us to witness these occurrences. But there's no denying that encountering such vehicles to the road with little or no room to pass is adding to the problem. It's like I'm talking too much. Did it all right continue then? Okay, can you open up the one called the barn? Okay, like I said, just going on about this barn. Now, our neighbors later, you've probably noticed the deterioration of this roof. If you were to go back in 2013 on the website PVA, this roof here had been repaired. Now, there was one little corner. The previous owner also disillusioned Mr. Ecton, rented out the houses. But he also gave my mother his contact number and said, hey, if you've got a problem, let me know. So when we had a problem with the roof, we can't fix it. You can see the siding is popping off. Now, I don't know if, like I said, whether this will play or not. I don't think, unfortunately, it must not be cooperating because it was working. Maybe the copy wouldn't have followed. It must not copy it over because it was working on mine. But, I mean, you can see the significant damage here. While I was hoping it was going to play, when we have high wind, this stuff moves around. You're talking about board here, probably, what, 30, 40 feet long. This metal is bouncing in the wind. And that's a potential hazard for our neighbors because if this stuff was a blow-off, I mean, land in somebody else's yard, what could they do with it? As you can see, when I originally complained to the city, I wasn't just even complaining about plant nursery. I was hoping that would catch their attention because I knew that required our conditional use. But all of this just makes us think, is any of this permissible in the agricultural zone? I mean, I could go on and on. I know a couple of my neighbors, I'd like to give them a chance to talk. I know some of them are probably going to refer back to me on some issues and talk a little closing. So I think at this time I'm going to kind of give everybody else a chance to speak so I won't take some people's thunder, as I call it. So I don't know if anybody had any questions at this point for me. Any questions for the witness at this time? All right. Thank you, ma'am. Thank you. Now what we'll do is we'll have everyone come up. You can keep your comments to about three minutes. If your comment has already been addressed, we'd prefer not to have repetitive comments. So if someone else prior to you has already testified as to exactly what you're testifying to, you would just go ahead and skip. That way it's already been heard. So what we'll do is just come up one at a time. And each time you come up, please state your name for the record and then confirm for me that you were sworn in. If you weren't sworn in, let me know so I can swear you in. If not, I'll assume you were sworn in at the beginning of the hearing. Thank you. Hi, my name is William Woodward. I live at 282 Swaggart Avenue. And I have not been sworn in, actually. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm or tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Thank you, sir. Thank you. I will be very brief. The one thing I really wanted to mention is this is not only just a rural, old country road. There's a ton of people that utilize this street every day for exercise. Walkers, runners, dog walkers, bicyclists. there's even there's a gentleman who is in an electric wheelchair that travels this road every day so it's not just a rural road it's really kind of a pristine hiding place that people utilize for not only entertainment but for exercise so i just want to mention that really quick the other the other thing i have and this is it uh there's a a business that started up years ago this is i'm not going to mention the name of the business it's an hvac business and he would have his semi trucks dropping loads once to three times per week they would put their flashers on They were full-blown semi-trucks like you were talking about, 50-something foot trailers or whatever. And it became such a hazard that he had to shut his – he had to move his business. His business was no longer allowed to be, and it was a full-blown HVAC business. As a matter of fact, it's almost directly across from this property that we're talking about at 191. And he did conform to that, and he went ahead and rented office space or whatever. He still operates a business out of the home as far as his work trucks. They're clean and orderly, and they take care of – they're well-kept. But we did have a problem with that, and I think that's what we're going to see with this business. We're going to see semis parked on the edge of the road for long periods of time. I don't dispute what the gentleman from the traffic study said. It probably could make the turn. It will be difficult. I imagine that they will park on the road. I can just about guarantee they will. because they're not going to be able to get back there and turn around. If they do, they're going to get stuck in the mud. So anyway, with that said, I want to reference that because this gentleman realized he could not operate a business that was dropping off semi-loads weekly or even sometimes a couple or three times a week. So I just wanted to bring that up. But this is a great, wonderful, scenic road. It's one of the last left on this edge of town. So I hope that you guys will see it fit to deny this. Thank you very much. Have a good day. Thank you, sir. Hello, my name is Edgar Hume. My wife and I live at 264 Swigert Avenue. We've lived in that area for at least 20 years. Seeing the slideshow here, first of all, I planned not to speak, but seeing the slideshow here allowed me to understand where the white trucks are coming from. It seems in the last six months or so, we have had speeding trucks. I live right in a curve, and we've had trucks ripping around the corner, red trucks, mainly white trucks. And again, you know, this is a walking area. It's a very pleasant area. It is becoming more and more busy. At least twice a day, I see these trucks coming and going. and apparently there are at least three of them, and it really does mess up the area. There are ruts on the side of the road we have not seen before this last month or two, though it has been, you know, we've gotten a lot of rain, but people are driving off the side of the road maybe to get around trucks. I'm not sure. Anyway, a mystery has been solved for me as to where the speeding white trucks are coming from. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Next. Good afternoon. My name is Donna Burke-Lowe, and I live and reside and own the property known as 169 Swigert. And that is the property, as you've seen before, that is adjacent to Mr. Ecton's property. I have lived there for over 37 years, and so I've seen a lot of activity come and go over the years. I would like to say this. I've always had a working and wonderful relationship with the previous owners, and it sort of saddens me today that I have to be here, and I don't like being put into this position, but simply said, we've had enough. and you don't know until you see it through our eyes and experience of what we've been doing that it's just not quite as simple as it's been presented that is a man out with a shovel in the back field planting plants. It is the noise and all the other things that go with it. But for me, one of the more concerning issues is that this is a business, and this business has employees. he states that he has five to six employees so that does bother us because we don't know these people they're strangers to us and now our properties have been exposed to these people who did not who do have no connection to our neighborhood whatsoever and really our privacy has been compromised excuse me that of myself and of my next door neighbor 177 and so i would say to you if you do approve this for him is there going to be a limit to the amount of people that he can have working working for him okay and then the other thing i want to know too is if he that you are supposed to provide the facilities for your employees meaning the restroom where are these employees going to use the restroom yes he has a tenant house on the property but he rents that out. Where are the people also going to wash their hands? We're concerned about the health issue of this also too. And in closing too, in regards to the barn that's been the object that he wants to use, believe me, it is an eyesore to the community. It is a dangerous situation because the roof is peeling off and could easily be blown like it does sometimes during heavy storms and could end up flying not only hurting animals in my yard but horses next door so i'm simply asking you to consider these things uh when you're making your final decision thank you thank you ma'am uh whoever wants to come up next hello my name is lucy brooks i was sworn in earlier i am here as a representative of hilliard lions trust company in louisville kentucky which probably sounds a little strange but 166 swigert is owned by an irrevocable trust and we are trustee of that irrevocable trust and that is what brings me to Lexington on this lovely day our client who resides at 166 Swigert she is the sole beneficiary of the trust and that trust exists solely for her benefit her care and her well-being and as the trust the house is a trust asset we are charged with protecting it the same way we would any other asset so based on conversations with our client and after reviewing all the materials that I am sure you all have reviewed all the letters all the photographs, videos, and whatnot, we do want to object for three primary reasons. We believe the operation of a commercial business could negatively impact residential property values, and we do believe that the long-established residential population density is different than commercial business population density. We believe that the operation of a commercial business will negatively impact our clients' beneficial use and enjoyment of the property. As many people have attested Swigert's a very beautiful street horse farms the kind of whole nine yards that people come to the area to see and we're concerned that these changes will impact her beneficial use and enjoyment of that property and we also believe that there could be negative impacts on our clients health as a result of the the burning waste chemicals and some things that may or may not have been properly disposed of at the end of the day I'm i'm from louisville i don't live on swiger but our client does and you've heard from many people in this room that have lived there for a long time and we just believe they're the people best situated to assess the potential impact and i just thank you for your time and consideration thank you you hello I've been sworn in my name is Leonard Atkinson I live at 177 Swaggart Avenue right in front of his property I'm 67 years old I have a 18 year old son that lives with us that's getting ready to go to college. Me and him both have asthma. The burning is just horrendous to both of us, our health. That is our issue and the noise from the bobcat constantly running in through our house. He runs it up and down that driveway which is less than 20 yards from my house. And it's just too much to live with. Thank you very much. Thank you. I'm Deborah Aminoff. I live at 232 Swigert Avenue. I sent you a letter so you have that. I won't reiterate it. I just wanted to let you know that Mack truck that there was a picture of, it was because of us, because we're finally getting our septic system replaced after 25 years. That is not the norm to have those Mack trucks on the street other than the traffic provided by Mr. Ecton's business. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. Hello. My name is Carol Whalen. I have been sworn in. I live at 157 Swigert Avenue. I have shared with you already this little PowerPoint highlighting my areas of concern. What I would like to add to this is the roof situation. I own the seven acres abutting the property in question. and I have found pieces of shard metal in my field with my horses. And I recently had a horse with an eye injury, and if horses can hurt themselves, they will hurt themselves. And I'm not sure exactly what caused the injury, but she ended up having to be put down. So it's a real problem. I've been there 30 years and in that house and on that farm. And the neglect that I'm seeing now, the boards, it's an old tobacco barn, and the boards are vertical and they're falling down, literally. I recently, the prior owner, Mark Turner, and I shared the cost of new fencing, which was close to $10,000. It's the equine mesh fencing. I am maintaining my side of the fence, but nobody is maintaining the other side of the fence, and trees are growing up through the mesh fencing, which is going to destroy it in short time. So I just wish that the home, and you can see, yeah, thank you. You can see that's my house in the upper right. My barn is the white barn you saw in some of the other photos, and the damage to his barn is a real threat to my property. If there were a fire, if something were to happen, if we could go into the next slide. My horse's shelter is in the upper left photograph of the white roof and his tobacco barn is built right along the property line there. It's just literally falling apart. If there ever were a fire or any hazardous materials, it would just absolutely impact my barn and my horses. You can see the lower left photo, that's a walk-in shelter at the end of my barn, and you can see the tobacco barn behind it. It's right on the fence line. It's a danger. It's an accident waiting to happen. So everything else I think I have covered. One other thing I wanted to mention, there is another access to your property. There's access on Paris Pike. It's called Blue Ribbon Lane. And Blue Ribbon Lane goes from Paris Pike. It goes to the back of my property and the back of your property. But again, it's a small lane. it's even a bit smaller than swagger so it is not conducive to heavy vehicles I my back fence I did not encroach on to blue ribbon Lane like your prior owner mr. Sweeney and it was prior to my paterna he put his fence line going into Blue Ribbon Lane so you can hardly you know it appears that well you could see it on a map but that that is an option there is another access but again it's not suitable for commercial traffic so I think that's all I have thank you ma'am thank you anyone else like to speak Good afternoon, LFUCJBOA, whatever. My name is Catherine Perkins. I am here representing myself, Joyland Neighborhood Association as well. I'm secretary for that. I live at 258 Swigert Avenue. I've lived there and own it since 2004. I also serve on the Parris Pike corridor as a commissioner, and I want to say one thing sort of as a preamble, but in my opinion, the Parris Pike small area plan in no way has any relevance to this and what the wording in it is. I think this meeting solely deals with our comprehensive plan and our zoning ordinances. I think that if we look at our zoning ordinances in 76A, number two states, that the board shall give consideration to the road system, sewage disposal facilities, utilities, etc. You've all heard and seen Swigert Avenue is a narrow street. And we've talked about the entrance to this property, so I won't go continue with that. But we are a no through truck street as well. And I think that for a good reason we are that. And currently and in the past, this illegally operated. And I have to stress that this business has been operating for three years illegally. The applicant's statement does say that the applicant was apparently mistaken under the mistaken belief that his business qualified as an accepted use. And I want to say that there is a legal principle holding that a person who is unaware of the law may not escape liability for violating that law merely because he's unaware of it. And I do find it hard to believe that one would be unaware of the law when one is a businessman. That's my opinion. If this conditional use were to be granted, which we JNA officers, my neighbors, and myself hope it is not, we want you to realize this conditional use plant nursery does not adhere to Zoning Ordinance 7-6A1 because to date this illegally operated plant nursery has had adverse and still does adverse influences on its surrounding neighborhood if you must grant then we hope that the boa will put the maximum conditions allowed not just the ones already recommended by staff but a few others And if I may give you an example of a few that we think, we being Joyland Neighborhood Association myself, that all business take place on the AR zone portion of the parcels the applicant owns. Not in the middle of Swigert Avenue and not in the R1B. Absolutely no storage of hazardous materials or flammables in or in or near any structures near neighboring homes, barns, garages, etc., regardless of the zone. No employees be allowed unsupervised on the property and that the property, if possible, be gated, locked, so that it is less accessible in off hours. And that the applicant be required to run background checks on all, including seasonal employees. One of the reasons I ask for this is that you've seen that the neighbors most directly involved with this property, the backs of their houses overlook this business. If it does extend into the R1B where they're already operating their business, they're even much closer to this, the homes of my neighbors. We have sometimes Mrs. Burklow is home alone, right? These guys are out there running around. Nobody knows anything about them. We don't know who they are, when they're going to be there. They come and go. So we think that this is important. Also that the applicant be required to have all structures, including in this conditional use, inspected and brought up to code before operations resume. If the conditional use is approved, which we hope it is not. I've seen the condition of the barn, the applicant wants to use this barn for storage of what? It is my understanding right now that he stores some debris in there. There are zoning prohibited, I believe it is 8-1 prohibited uses, Disposal of garbage and refuse, and he is putting garbage into this dilapidated barn. What if he were to store flammables in there? And it's right next door to houses. R1B is R1B for a reason, so I want you to keep that into consideration. We also feel that the applicant must be required, if this grant is granted, which we hope it is not, to have regular waste removal. Service pickup, which he does not have. So he has no further need to burn prohibited items or use the land and its structures as a dump for his business waste. We think, we want to believe that he should have proper up to code septic system and working order before he is granted approval to operate legally. And any other conditions that you've set forth. I encourage you to rethink your reasons for recommending approval for this variance. And use the power set forth in 7.6 to not approve because you can't insure, no one can insure that this business, conditional use, will not have more adverse influences to the surrounding neighborhood. And we have to assume that if it could have been run in such a way that neighbors wouldn't have complained, that it would have been done so. So obviously, to me, it's obvious that this is the way this business has to be run. It has to be run with trucks unloading in the street. And I beg to differ with our client's representation. in the applicant's representation, it is during peak season two to four days a week. Because not only does he offload large quantities of trees, he loads them up with the little noisy machine going back and forth from the back onto trucks to take them off as well. So in peak season, it can be as often as three or four days a week. Look to the future and look at and survey existing structures and see if they are far enough away from all homes, including the applicant's other homes and structures, to be considered safe. Revisit 746 when reviewing a conditional use application. The board shall thoroughly address potential impacts to any identified environmentally sensitive areas. We haven't approached this yet. But I believe this property needs more research by our city into the possibility of underground springs and wells. And make sure that if approved, the plant nursery will never be a source of pollution to these very valuable natural resources. As you know, or maybe you don't know, but our neighborhoods have a history of underground springs and wells. Also, and I don't think anybody has mentioned this, but on the other side of Blue Ribbon Lane is a very large farm owned by Mr. Hughes Spendthrift Farm. It does, I think, border and run into partially of Mr. Acton's, the applicant's property as well. I've been in contact with a few of the people who lease that farm and They've been in contact with the farm manager. They've spent probably close to a half a million on Paris Pike, redoing a very old and historic house. They don't want smoke, they don't want the things like that as well. And they certainly do not want any kind of chemicals that may be put into the ground to leach into their property and they would. I just want to take just a few more minutes and I'm almost done. This conditional use plant nursery may be appropriate use for an AOR zone, but I think it's more appropriate for one located a few more miles outside of town or on a bigger parcel, but not on a lane and a half residential street surrounded by single family homes. All of our homes, not only on Swaggart Avenue, but those in the entire area, under joyland neighborhood association's purview will become less desirable to potential buyers for their forever homes if located next to businesses that this plant nursery is just that a business i also want to just one more very quick thing lfucg has a task force for neighborhoods in transition now i know this is for neighborhoods that are in transition due to gentrification But I believe that neighborhoods that are at risk and in transition due to commercialization should be addressed. And I think this is what we are at risk at. My neighborhood, we have now a semi-truck sales and service center that went up at a now historic site where Joyland Amusement Park used to be in our neighborhood. Sole access off of a residential street. Who wants to buy a home next to that? We have a Dollar General store, sole access on a residential street. So these are things that now we're looking at commercialization coming in from the farm area. I think that this is something that we need to address. I don't assume that commercialization on the outskirts of our property or neighborhoods is bad. I'm just saying that it could potentially make it so it's not a good place to live. I want to ask you to please wrap it up. And a few of my neighbors are not going to speak. They've given me their time, so I will wrap it up very quickly. Let me remind you, please, the potential dangers to the neighbors closest to this operation. The dangers that may arise from the possibility of this business's use of employees without background checks, The possibility they may be left unsupervised on a property that has clear views into the rear of its neighbors' homes, yards, garages, and have access to the property at any time of day or night. And because of the age of structures and the fact that smoking by employees is almost a given, or the storage of hazardous materials and chemicals, the chance of fire is another potential danger to the neighbors because of the close proximity this business takes place to them. I know for myself, if the applicant were a resident on this property, I would feel a little bit more safe, as I tend to assume most responsible law-abiding citizens tend to be more careful when their homes and families are involved. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. Anyone else want to speak? Come on up. my name is bobby bradley 169 i'm gonna be my wife my time bucket sure okay i promise i'll keep it about two minutes i'm about tired of talking myself too could you do photos from the wedding did they come through if you could pull that up i just want to speak real briefly about you know we've talked a lot about the property but just to emphasize this, we've had some young people different moving the street. This is a picture, so you can see how narrow it is, about how special the street is. As you can see in all the people who have come out, we are passionate about our little neighborhood. I have a lot of fond memories of growing up here, and I thought that those would continue on to the next generation. Those of us who, like myself and my mom and my husband, live on one of these smaller properties, have always considered ourselves blessed to enjoy the scenic views bestowed on us by living next to these adjacent farms. Any time a property goes up for sale, one of the key selling points are these scenic views. As the horse farms around the outskirts of Lexington faded away, we on Swigert always thought ourselves somewhat protected due to the small size of these farms in the street. Most of them are under 10 acres, and due to size and shape, they really were never conducive to the cultivation of crops. So pretty much they've always been little horse farms. I never, ever dreamed I would ever see a commercial business such as this landscaping service set up shop behind my house. You know, as one of the neighbors at 177 noted her letter you read, How could Mr. Ecton have ever driven down the street and thought it was suitable to run a business on? You all say in your recommendations that it should not adversely affect the subject or other properties, but it has. It should not have any major traffic impact, but it does. The board also says that the storage and maintenance and life plans is generally an appropriate use for an agricultural area, but it's not appropriate for this agricultural area. I think that we have demonstrated that through our letters and our speeches. Let's have one last picture of the sunset. If you could open that up. I'm almost through here, I promise. I'll keep it short. This is a picture taken out of my window. I have to tell you, it's honest. It's been very hard for me to keep my emotions as base. I think of what I have lost and will continue to lose if this is approved and this business is allowed in rain there. I may never again see a bluebird singing in the early morning from the top of a plank fence. The fence is now gone. The bluebirds have all left due to the noise and activity. And he mentions just blocking. This is a beautiful view that we love. He wants to put up a giant wall of norway spruces that's going to not even temporarily help anything. In 20 years we have one in our yard. I will never again be able to see this sunrise like you hear. are going to get 40 feet tall. They're going to forever block this view I love. I'm never going to again see the fog rise from the field. No more horses playing in the snow in the distance. It's just going to be a wall of darkness. The full scope of these business activities we've revealed to you today that have been forming this property are not consistent with those permissible in the AR zone, as they are not agriculture related, and they are definitely indicative of the sights and sounds of urban development. The further approval of usage as a plant nursery will allow these disruptive activities already observed to continue. We are asking the board to disapprove Mr. Ecton's request by adhering to the intent of agricultural rural zoning and preserve the rural character of this beautiful street and remove this blight from our neighborhood. Thank you very much. Thank you, ma'am. Any more comments from the audience? Oh, Mr. Brown? I wasn't going to call you out on the transition neighborhood council, but I was going to let you stay silent. But come on up since you've taken so much leadership in that point. I wasn't here earlier to get sworn in. Do I need to do that? Yes, sir. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Thank you, sir. And please state your name for the right. James Brown, First District Councilmember. This property isn't in my district. I do represent some folks that live in the Joyland Neighborhood Association. As our city, as our small beautiful city continues to grow and change, there's neighborhoods that are feeling the impact of it. That's one of the reasons that we've started the task force on neighborhoods in transition. And unfortunately, the Joyland neighborhood has experienced a lot of transition and pressure and change in the recent years, as has been mentioned. The only thing with this situation is that, you know, I would just encourage, based on whatever decision y'all make today, that the property owner, Michael Acton, practice being a good neighbor. Evidently, the neighbors around him are affected by the business, affected by the use of his property. And I think just practicing being a good neighbor, reaching out, maybe sharing information when it becomes available so the neighbors know what's going on, I think, is a good practice or the best practice when you're in a sensitive neighborhood like Joyland. It's been said that this use isn't an allowable use in the AR zone. I can think of several other uses that are more intrusive. that are allowable in the zone and and and you know i think this might you know it might not be the best thing and neighbors might not want it to come but i think working together with the with the property owner might might make it more palatable uh moving forward um i would ask ask the board to are some of the things shared today when they're putting parameters around this development. The privacy concerns, the waste collection, make that a condition of future use for this property. And then the enforcement of the operating hours. I think that's real important. What hours that this potential business will be operating. And then also explore the potential optional access to the property. If the Blue Ribbon access off of Parris Pike is an option, I think that's something worth looking into and worth exploring to make this something that could be more conducive to the neighbors. But that's all I had. I won't keep you long. I just think that the Joyland neighborhood has experienced a lot of transition lately and do sympathize with the neighbors and the folks that live in that community. And by the way, those were some beautiful wedding pictures that you showed earlier. So that was a plus. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Brown. Any other comments from the public? Come on up, ma'am. I was sworn in earlier. When Mr. Ma'am, please state your name for the record. Oh, Susan Duran. When Mr. Acton moved into the neighborhood, I understood he was going to have a plant nursery. And my idea of a plant nursery is you're putting things in the ground, so you're putting them there to grow. It's a long-term, slow operation, but that's what it is. What he's doing is he's just simply bringing plants there, dumping them off, and then reloading them. It's no different than any other commercial property. It is as if you bring in garden statuary there. You bring in a load of it, and then you slowly disperse it elsewhere. But it's just an inanimate object. It's no different if you bring in a load of tires. You take them, you offload them, and then you disperse them elsewhere. So what we're just simply doing is putting an ongoing, non-really very agricultural operation there in the middle of an area that does have very viable horse farm and very viable horse trainers there. So you are then ruining the whole rural horse farm atmosphere of Swigert Avenue, which is admittedly the borderline between urban and farmland. So that once you agree to what is really nothing but just a commercial for-sales operation on the street, then you're inviting something else. Once you move that direction, you're going to invite somebody else to decide, well, I've got a couple of acres. I can put up a building there. I can do something else there. I'll just make mine so it's not quite so visible. But it still is a commercial operation, and you're ruining the rural nature of the area. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. Please keep your... Yeah. Ms. Palme. I'm council member Kathy Plumman and I also did not take, do you want to swear me in? Okay. Do you swear, right here. Do you swear or affirm, tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Thank you, ma'am. Again, I'm Kathy Plumman, I am the 12th district council member. And the area that we're talking about for the facility, for operation is in the 12th district of course part of it is in the rb portion but the 12th um i didn't i had another meeting so i didn't get to hear everybody speaking this afternoon and when i came back down um but i've read all of the emails our office got quite a few communication and i'm really familiar with swigert um i have a good friend that lives over there i've been over there i've known some of the problems they've had with the curvy roads and folks hit the excuse me they hit the turn um a barrier there um but i think the thing that bothered me most or i heard the most was these vehicles that are going down a road that never meant to be used in that capacity i wish there was another way to enter that property but i also think some of the other things that were brought up that don't know what you all are going to do today but strict code enforcement on some of these issues i've heard a lot of different variations from what was presented today from from the other party that people have experienced day in and day out in that area i represent the ar so i see this encroachment so to speak happen constantly you know moving out moving out whatever we can and i think is is our horse industry is our rural assets are our signature or a calling card for lexington kentucky we have to be careful with our decisions thank you very much before you leave can i ask you a question and this is just i'm asking because it occurred to me and i don't know the answer do you know whether swigert is a county road or a state road i believe it's a city road it's not definitely i mean it's not in my district um but but I really don't know. Does law or does planning? It's a city. There are no county or city roads. It's because we're a merged government. It's either a state or urban kind of government. Swigert is an urban kind of government road. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Any other questions? Thank you, ma'am. Okay. Appreciate it. Any other comments from the public before I close that portion? All right. Yeah, no rebuttals, just if you haven't been up here before. Okay. So with that being said, before Mr. Martin has an opportunity to rebut, wait one second, sir. I'd like to ask staff. That way Mr. Martin can address any issues you guys have. We've heard a lot of testimony today, and so I wanted to check to see whether or not, based upon the testimony given today, whether you would change your recommendation and whether or not any additional conditions would be recommended by staff at this time. Additional conditions? Or your recommendation. Do you feel any changes to either one are appropriate? I think based on the testimony you've just heard as well as some of the statements that were made by the applicant in their introductory description of the project, that there's a critical overriding issue here that needs to be addressed. I mean, there's a lot of details that we can get into depending on how that overriding issue is addressed, things like the burning and the truck traffic, the buffering, hours of operation, access improvements, how to handle garbage. But the overriding issue, is this just a plant nursery, or is this more than just a plant nursery? Is this partly a plant nursery, and then a lot of a landscaping business being operated out of that location on a daily basis. I think it's clear based on the testimony that there is a lot of what's going on that's clearly a landscaping business, not a plant nursery. So I want to make it clear that the staff's recommendation of approval was for a plant nursery, not for the continued operation of a landscaping business with trucks coming in there on a daily basis going to projects around town. So that's a critical distinction that the board is going to have to make a judgment call on based on the testimony, based on other facts that may come to light. So that overriding issue is, before you get into all those other details, is something that my recommendation has to be addressed with a clear-cut answer. Jim, thank you for that. That was going to be one of my questions as well. And the chairman asked you all one that I had written down as well. So what's the difference between a plant nursery and a landscaping business? I believe I understood from the staff report that a plant nursery is a permitted use in an AR zone. Is a landscaping business also a permitted use in an AR zone? It is not. I think it's conditional. Oh, I'm sorry. Both are conditional. Is that right? Landscaping business is not listed as a conditional use. Anywhere? In the AR zone. It's not, as Autumn mentioned before, it's not clearly addressed, either as prohibited, principle permitted, conditional. So you have to do that assessment. Is it something that's very similar to something that's approved one way or the other, or is it more similar to something that's prohibited? I know that the zoning regulations can't describe every single business that is in operation, and I understand the difficulty with trying to sort out what this is. We shouldn't limit businesses. We shouldn't construct businesses so that they fit into the definition. The definitions ought to fit whatever the businesses are. So, I mean, just to allow people to go into a business. But I also see the value in listing those kinds of businesses in particular zones. Otherwise, we have no zoning control whatsoever. I think a lot of this comes to light when you look closely at the definition of plant nursery. That's right from the zoning ordinance, and it's up here on the screen. And the key word in there is outdoor cultivation of trees and shrubs. cultivation means you're growing something either by seed or by seedlings or cuttings or something of that nature at some point you're using in the agricultural context you're using the soil that makes the agricultural land special somehow it appears that a lot of what's coming in here is as the last person citizen that spoke described is stuff that's just being stored it's not being cultivated so I think that's where the distinction comes, where the landscaping business comes in. They're taking stuff that's been stored there temporarily, not necessarily cultivated. Well, was there anything about the application? I mean, I think Mr. Martin and Mr. Acton described what the business was. Is there anything in the application that you thought was inaccurate or deceptive or not in keeping with what the business is? I mean, here's what I see. It looks like to me the staff struggled with this. If the staff struggles with it, we're struggling with it. And so we've heard testimony on both sides. We're going to have to make a decision. so that's why we're asking you all for your recommendation. I rely a great deal on the staff report and the staff recommendations. I don't think that the application was necessarily incorrect or inaccurate, but I'm not sure that it fully encompassed the full scope of what is going on on this site. Some of what the neighbors have brought to light were things that were not included in the application, some of the storage of materials that are non-plant materials and things like that, the snow removal issue and lawnmowers and things like that coming and going were things that were not included in the application and that are beyond the scope of a plant nursery. So with that information now at hand, are there any kinds of additional conditions that you would place on the business now having heard the testimony of the people who we've heard testify today i think if the board were to determine that this was an appropriate use for this site that you would be able to add some more conditions and i do think that there would be some that would be appropriate um just based on some of the things that that has have been brought to light today um yes there are probably a number of conditions that could be added i don't know i mean i've heard i guess mr glover's asking specific specific from staff i mean we would probably need to take a couple minutes to draft something i thought yeah i thought ms perkins made some some good points actually i heard several good points that were made that makes me want to discuss what additional conditions might be appropriate to protect the neighborhood but not to put mr acton out of business or to restrict his business unreasonably but also to make it appropriate for this particular location if we can. So that's basically what I'm asking you. And I'm going to ask Doug the same questions. I think some things that were mentioned, like the burning, there are already other entities and other laws in place that should sort of take care of that. So I don't know that conditioning, those types of things, would be necessary. I think that some of the waste issues and having a contract with someone who comes and collects waste that is something that we could certainly condition there are probably another number of conditions that we could could add to this and I've noticed that the applicant and I don't mean to be monopolizing the question to staff but I noticed that the application itself it really is to to simple two simple things one is to to extend the to establish a plant nursery or whatever the business is, and two is to extend the regulations of the AR portion of the lot 50 feet beyond the zone. And that's pregnant with meaning, I think, and that's why I'm trying to dig deeper and get into the guts of what that means. Thank you. If you don't mind, Jim, also on the determination of the plant nursery, it sounds like we're making a distinction on the pickup. that i mean making a big issue about the trucks coming or not but the plant nursery would still have if they were growing them there it's still for the ultimate purpose to sell and leave the property so it's not necessarily the coming the picking up of the landscaping from that location you know you get what i'm saying yeah i do and i think it all boils down to the frequency of how often trucks will be in there to for example harvest plants that have been truly cultivated on site would be much less frequent than on a daily basis picking up plant material or trees shrubs that have been stored there so it's the frequency of how stuff gets just distributed that's the key thing but then you're getting into the means and methods of really of what a plant nursery is or is not and i i'm not sure that we have or want the responsibility of trying to regulate somebody on means and methods of how to operate their business that's what i'm struggling with me too and that's the thought on the plant nursery issue like if he were growing it from the ground is that different from that he's getting them mostly grown there is some definite agricultural difference there i get that but it's still for the ultimate purpose of commerce so i want to do something that you know i think we're all looking for a way to not hinder business but still you know satisfy the neighbors because of the location but i still can't imagine a i mean it's a 10 acres of land that's not used by horse farm i mean this this type of business would not be more well suited you know within the city so where do you put that type of business i don't want to fighting with the same argument other than a transitional zone yeah i understand yeah and all those points we can have those discussions once we close the argument if you want mr martin i can see you are chomping at the bit um i just thought we might respond to some of this before there's the good the final negotiating that that happens well we weren't going to final negotiate I think this one's going to be one where I'm not sure if there will be final negotiating or not. However, though, I will allow you an opportunity to rebut. And then at that point, once you've rebutted and had your discussion, I'm sure there's going to be more questions from the board for you also. At that point, then we can at least figure out whether the board wants to add conditions or it looks like they just want to put to a vote. Sure. Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chair, members of the Board of Adjustment. A couple things. One is that my client thought this was agriculture, and I'm not convinced it's not. We filed the application for conditional use permit based on position of staff that this required a conditional use, and obviously we want to be compliant. The definition of agriculture under your ordinances and under the state law includes horticulture, and horticulture is shrubs and bushes. Now, come spring, my client, Mr. Eklund, Mr. Eklund was here earlier today, intends to plant 3,500 seedlings, saplings, on his farm. And so, this is intended to be a plant nursery. In the past, when he thought that he had pretty free reign as an agricultural area, he did some landscaping. landscaping I mean did some mowing a part of this company he's discontinued that and so that's not a part of this application we are not asking for permission to run a mowing business he also did as a part of this his business some snow removal and he has some you know half a pallet maybe of leftover bags of rock salt he's going to sell those to a property management company he's not asking for permission to run a snow removal company from this property. He is asking for permission to have a conditional use for a plant nursery and to include that plant nursery 50 yards so that he can include the barn that he keeps stuff in. Now, if Mr. Ecton were 100% in compliance with his R1B, he would be the only one in several square miles to do so. There's a lot of farmland out there. There's a lot of home businesses and farm businesses that are happening in that R1B zone. but we're here today to ask for the board's permission to extend the r1b plant nursery 50 feet so that he can keep his barn it's been there for a long time before any of us remember i'd like to respond really to the uh some of the the written objections that you have because i've kind of divided this into categories and and and the kind of big things as far as trash removal, this is something that we can agree to. That takes getting the guys and putting it on a flat bed truck and hauling it off someplace. That's not a problem. Mr. Ecton has had a valid, validly issued berm permit for the city of Lexington. So what he's done has been in compliance. They called the zoning folks on about the junk on his farm just last week. They came out on Monday, they issued no citations, they gave him no fines or anything like that. So this has been sort of a steady thing from the neighbors. I'd like to direct your attention to Mr. Ecton's letter in the back of my materials that is in your booklet, not in the presentation. You may have had a chance to see it. As I said earlier, under the various studies, the Parris Pike Small Area Plan, the Comprehensive Plan, the Rural Service Area Land Management Plan, basically the Board of Adjustments' job is to protect our farms from the people, from the houses, not to protect the houses from the farms. And I think that's an important distinction today. If this, someone said, well, it would be better if he did it way off, you know, a couple more miles out. And I think that's an important distinction, is that this is the border between the urban area and the rural area. And the question is, is what's going to govern? Are we going to create a dead zone around our urban area because we're not going to allow businesses, farm businesses, agribusinesses to survive in that area? As far as traffic, Mr. Ecton's farm. it really isn't the major source of traffic i showed the uh the you know the overview of joyland swiger goes to faulkner goes to uh russell cave road you got all kinds of folks who are cutting through uh these you know from paris pike to russell cave all these residents going one this this way or that way these you know these couple trucks in the morning coming back in the afternoon aren't the major source of traffic on swiger it it's a busy country road i used to live on us 62 out in midway during high school and during college i traveled old frankfort pike every day you get you got all kinds of hay trucks horse trucks all kinds of stuff running back and forth and it's a country road there's going to be a lot of traffic particularly when you put a whole neighborhood next to it. I thought Ms. Perkins letter from who spoke earlier from 258 Swigert really talked about the many sources of traffic out there. She says Swigert has an influx of young homeowners and our street has seen considerable increase of heavy duty in traffic due in part to remodeling and other moving in and establishing of new homes, duties and in part to its location as a fairly straight cut through with no stops from Parris Pike like the Russell Cave. Hay trucks, FedEx trucks, horse supply delivery trucks, horse trailers, and employees of the trainers of the Thoroughbred Center and the training center in Russell Cave, adjacent to the planned Providence Business Center, are many of our daily cut through traffic. Swigert Avenue is a cut through when there's a backup on Paris Pike. So whether or not you approve the application for the conditional use, traffic on Swigert is going to continue and whether or not his guys are driving down the road or not really are going to impact traffic really that much. Miss Miller talked about school buses and horse trailers and they themselves have horses they often travel pulling a loaded trailer. She talks about how there's barely enough room for two cars on Swigert. Well there's a lot of other particularly horse trailers. Lisa Frenet who is across the street said unfortunately too many cars and trucks speeding down our little road union has a shortcut to either Russell Cave or Parris Pike. That didn't include this business. The conversion of farmland into small residential lots increases really the number of daily trips and I talked about that earlier. I talked about the delivery on the the eight or so deliveries a year. Yeah. I think I want to say, Swigert Avenue isn't a safe place to play. This Perkins letter says, we have considerable runoff on the edges of the road, very wet and muddy, and numerous residents of Swigert and the neighborhood at large walk, bike, and play in or on the street. She says, we have an elderly handicapped gentleman who has a motorized little rig he rides on on Swigert almost daily when the weather is good. I foresee me in my wheelchair in a few years enjoying my street if we can fix the problems of heavy trucks and speeding traffic. Swigert Avenue isn't Cherokee Park and it's never going to be. There's going to be heavy traffic going between Parrish Pike and Russell Cave Road whether this fellow gets put out of business or not. It's not a safe place to stroll down the middle of the road. It's not a safe place to play in the road. I live in Beaumont. You can't do that in front of my road. You certainly can't do it on a busy country like Swiger. And I don't think it's reasonable for them to scapegoat Mr. Ecton and place all the burden of their problems on his business. His business, whether it's there or not, is not going to change their traffic on Swiger. Some of the folks' letters said that his trucks are putting ruts in their yards. I think these folks, I think this was Ms. Nelson at 101, said, I have terrible ruts in the side of my property. from the wider width trucks and vehicles associated with a landscape business run from 191 Swiger. Well, they don't work in Paris, so they never make right turns onto Swiger coming from the direction of Paris. And so, there doesn't look like too many ruts. And the same thing, Ms. Miller says that larger trucks and buses have to swerve onto lawns and grass, causing huge ruts and ditches that are unsightly. well that's miss miller's and so to to to make a rut in the outside turn that's pretty darn impossible with a long trailer you got to really take that turn really wide obviously not when you're going to the property you'd have to be coming toward russell cave but you'd have really have to swing that pretty wide and i and it's i don't see many ruts there as far as open burning a number of objectors claim that mr ecton is engaged in the illegal burning of rubbish dangerously close and we saw a lot of pictures about that But he has valid burn permits. I've talked to him, he's happy to get some flatbeds and take the stuff out to a dump. People burn stuff in the countryside. I think it's not believable to say that he creates a possible fire hazard, a danger to neighboring properties. horse farms a little further down the road and drifting up smoke and embers in the direction of those farms. People burn stuff out in the country. Now he's agreed to put this stuff on flatbed trucks, but this has nothing to do with a plant nursery. He can burn stuff out there whether or not he has a plant nursery or not. Now he wants to work with the neighbors to try to address this, but this has nothing to do with the plant nursery. Dangerous chemicals. In their email, Jeffrey Creech and Janet Guy, who live at 272 and 276 Swigert, claim that Mr. Ecton uses dangerous chemicals on his farm that could endanger the entire city of Georgetown's water supply. He says, the good folks at 169 Swigert have voiced concerns over the use of chemicals at 191. The area around Swigert is on the Royal Spring Aquifer, which is a source of water for Georgetown. There are special ecological considerations in runoff from the rain and irrigation as they are neither storm sewer nor sanitary sewers on Swigert Avenue. Mr. Ecton doesn't spray chemicals on his property. He uses a pre-emergent weed killer similar to preem. They don't store it generally on the property. When they get a supply of mulch, they pick up a couple bags and mix them in with the mulch to keep the weeds. I do that. I buy my preen at Home Depot, and I keep it in a thing in my garage. He does have a couple of some bags, as I said, left over of rock salt that he's going to sell off to a property management company. I think he's learned a lot about trying to be in compliance with his own, but I think as staff has said, landscaping, what he's doing doesn't fit anywhere in your rules. So I think he validly thought that he was an agricultural business. He's basically keeping trees and bushes on his farm. Now, when he had loaded in trucks, it makes a mess back there. It's a farm. So we're willing to put in Norwegian spruces. Norway spruces which we're going to do, he's going to do along his property line with Swiger to help those folks not see some of the dirt back there. There's going to be something back there whether or not he has a plant nursery or not. I would venture to say that he doesn't need permission to plant 3,500 seedlings in the ground. so you know and so he's going to be doing something back there i think it's clear that these speaks in many ways these folks see swaggered as kind of a gated community i was i was struck by many of the of the emails and letters that i saw that wanted to portray Mr. Ecton as another, somebody else. They're outsiders. They say, well, he doesn't live here. He has no intention on living here. And the last thing I saw, under the Kentucky Constitution and the Equal Protection Clause of the United States Constitution, he doesn't have to live there to do what he does on the farm. So one person said that nor would he want to live here where people he employs on an as needed basis came and went as they pleased with his elderly mother at home alone or his daughter at home with young children. We're talking about scary immigrants. So every person who he employs are either a U.S. citizen or have valid visas. That's easily provable. So in closing, I think there's a lot of misinformation, a lot of angst. This is putting plants in the ground on a farm out in the country. And I think that is legal in Fayette County, Kentucky. The basic complaint of his neighbors is that he don't enjoy living next to a working farm and would rather see a manicured horse farm when they look out the window. A plant nursery, literally the storing and growing of trees and bushes for transplanting, is really one of the lowest impact things I can think of. He could put a hawk farm there tomorrow. He could put chickens out there. He could put goats, put steer. Those are going to make a lot more ruckus than a front loader. And horses you have to move back and forth. Ms. Miller talked about moving her horses on these big trailers. That's what happens out in the country. So when all this is said and done, the heavy cut through traffic on Swigert won't change whether or not you grant him this conditional use. I think he's willing to agree to some things to try to work things out. but he just needs the ability to do his business. It is agricultural farms are working farms many times and not all just hobby farms or show horse farms or things like that. Some are working farms and there's precious little of these lots in Lexington. When the ordinance has changed and you can only have 40 acre lots, there's no more of these to be created. So in closing, the residents of Schweiger moved to the country to get away from the city. But they have to accept the inconveniences of life in the country. Farms are where people make a living. Farms aren't just hobbies. I urge the board to approve Mr. Ecton's application for a conditional use permit for a plant nursery for 191 Schweiger. Thank you for listening. Before you go, Mr. Martin, just to clarify for two things for the record. Number one, the application is just for a plant nursery. And number two is since it's a split lot, you want the right to use the plant nursery to go 50 feet into the R1B. He wants to keep the barn. I just want to make sure that I have those that clear for the record. Okay. Anything else, Mr. Martin? That's all for me. I'm happy to answer questions. He can answer questions. Well, at this point, I'm going to go ahead and close the public portion. Thank you. If you want a seat. So if you raise your hand or you come up to the podium, I will likely not recognize you. I will call you up if we want you. Okay? Thank you. So at this point, I'm not sure what the board wants to do, but we can discuss. Or if you feel that, you know, you want to approve this application, but you want to see additional conditions, then we can easily take a recess and let you talk with staff and legal. One of the things that is part of the organization of the Board of Adjustment is that all of our discussions happen in public, so that we can't retire to the jury room and debate and discuss and ponder the evidence and such. All of our discussions are open and before you, the public. So when Ms. Carter and I were having a discussion before, it's appropriate for us to do that, it because we don't get to go back and and and pull each other and see where we're going and all so it's it's it's not inappropriate for us to have these kind of discussions as long as they're public and I think it's it's it's appropriate for us to have those discussions I said earlier that that I had some concerns raised by Ms. Perkins letter and some of the other people who testified as well and it primarily had to do with the nature of the business but i but i'm curious if any of the other members of the board have any additional uh language for any other conditions or if or if we think any other conditions are appropriate i think the applicant made a pretty good case that on his behalf that this is this is a he's asking for permission to do these two things most of the testimony has been about other things other than the two requests that he's that he's asking for so i don't have any any additional language to any other conditions but i'm curious if any of the other board members do because i think the neighbors have some have some concerns and i'd like to accommodate them to the extent that we can and that we would and that we think it's appropriate but i don't have any other conditions to offer for this application beyond what the staff has recommended and i and i note that the staff i don't think i heard you say jim that you changed your recommendation based on what you heard i think it's more of a clarification rather than a change I would like to couch it that way. If the board gets to the point where you approve a quote unquote plant nursery, then it needs to be very clear to the applicant and enforcement folks whether that includes everything they are currently doing, which is the daily truck traffic for landscaping projects in Lexington or wherever they go for their and if that includes trees or shrubs that were potted and delivered to the site and just kept alive for however length of time until they're needed for a project whether that includes those types of plants to be delivered in semi trucks and that are parked on the street that's the means and methods that we're that we're trying not to get into and like i said earlier we're trying not to limit people's businesses to the categories that are in the ordinances but to allow people to operate a business that we then include in the ordinance that's why i think it's real important to focus on the definition of a plant nursery where it uses the term cultivate sure um okay i i would just like to add that i'm the cultivation i don't see that this that bringing in plant material and storing it on the facility is cultivation and i think that it to me there's an intensity of use there's a frequency as as jim marks mentioned that is a consideration for us here but i i don't see in the and the applicant has said in his letter you know he's he is storing the material there and he's covering up he's covering it up with mulch from the from the tree you know the mulched trees that come in the tree bark that's or the trees that have been ground up so he's bringing that in and he's he's covering up the trees and that's how he's you know keeping them alive and he's watering them and then they're being moved off the site to me it's it's just it's it's more of a commercial kind of activity than it is an agricultural activity in my my view may i may i ask mr martin and the applicant if this is approved i'm convinced that that i would approve it based on the definition of what a plant nursery is So I'm going to ask this simple question. If it is approved, is that the kind of operation that's going to exist there? I would, Mr. I can answer that. Quickly, Mr. Martin, if I can interrupt. Are you, I want to make sure I understand your question. Your question is what's currently operating going to continue to operate, or is the question are they going to start growing things and not operate like they're operating? Mr. Marks said that a plant nursery is growing plants and from what I can tell this is not what's going on now. And so if what's going on now is considered in Mr. Ecton's mind that that's a plant nursery, then I think we have a problem. So I'm asking simply, is it going to change if we stick to the idea that a plant nursery is growing plants? We don't need a conditional use permit to put plants in the ground. That's agriculture. We don't need a conditional use permit at all to do that. We filed for an application for conditional use based on the recommendation of staff that this was the category into which this fell. We filed an extensive applicant statement that described in detail what he is doing and plans to do that falls within this category. And so immediately, for the purposes of this conditional use, he's buying bushes and trees in burlap and in containers. He's covering them with mulch. And he's growing them until he needs them for transplanting. And so I think the word transplanting is important. But he does not need a conditional use to grow trees in the ground. That's agriculture. It's clear agriculture. And there's no need to get a conditional use for the 3,500 sprigs he's going to put in the ground in the spring. What he needs it for is to bring in the trees and the plants that you really need to put outside. You don't put it at Turflin Mall. You put it outside, and it needs to be there in the soil, and you cover it up. The soil, although he's not burying it in the soil, it has heat that keeps the plants alive. It's not just putting it on a parking lot. You water them outside. being outside they get watered from the weather and so we relied on the recommendation of staff we had an extensive detailed applicant statement and staff in reliance on that applicant statement has recommended approval this as a plant nursery so I hope that answers your question but are you if If you're asking whether he's not going to bring in bulbs and container plants, no, he's going to bring in bulbs and container plants. That's what we clearly said in the applicant statement. Well, can I add, Mr. Clark, too, and I don't mean to interrupt, but the definition of cultivate, we are really making it so narrow here that I just want to say I'm uncomfortable about it. Because cultivate, to say it simply means to plant in the ground, is just not correct. I mean, even if you just look up to Google the definition, because Google is our friend, right? I mean, it's to maintain, it's to grow, it's to raise. I mean, all of those things fall under that purview of cultivate. And if we're saying that he's only cultivating by planting that seed in the ground and growing it, I think we are making that so narrow that that just makes me completely uncomfortable and what we're doing to define the specific business and what he could do exactly. That's not what cultivate means, to plant in the ground and grow strictly. Okay. I'm sorry. The way I look at this is a few things that I think, as Mr. Brown indicated, that stand out. One, the loading area for the trees has become a complaint that seems everyone is called about. So that's something that needs to be addressed. The nuisance to the neighbors, if that can be mitigated and away from you as a good neighbor, I know that it's been limited by the hours in that, but I'm not sure if that's something that you guys wanted. But those two things seem something that I would feel comfortable with seeing in this. But I'm just not sure if I agree with the cultivation. The use you've been operating for three years seems the complaints of just now maybe come in. is that is that correct or this has been happening for three years yeah um so some things you know obviously changed the use has changed the in the idea that the business that maybe the the the neighbors had and it is now seeing or experiencing has changed so um you know there needs to be something that helps with everyone getting along here and um you know again we're We're trying to come up with the best solution for all parties, and that's what I'd like to see us do here. Along those lines, can I ask another question? On the conditions, and this might be for traffic, that is the issue. That's one of the issues that would make me more comfortable is that we are addressing a more safe or orderly entry point for the trucks. the condition here that says the access drive and the driveway be discussed with division of traffic, is that sufficient? Because then you guys will handle exactly. Correct. We were basing on the information that we had was the applicant would be using 16-foot flatbed trailers. In testimony today, it sounds like there's much larger vehicles coming into this site. So I believe at a minimum, rather than 50 feet, we would extend that to 100 feet. The concrete entrance, 6 inches thick, is 30 feet wide. To accommodate the types of vehicles that were said to be coming into this property. because we based the 50 feet on large pickup trucks and flatbed trailers. And it seems that somewhere along the lines that was not accurate. And so based on the testimony today in a 52-foot trailer needing a 30-foot width, you'd approximate about 100 feet long. so so you would change it sounds like you would you would change uh condition number five to say from 50 feet you extend it to 100 feet is that what you're suggesting thanks and a 30 foot wide apron 30 foot wide apron and and that 100 feet would be 30 feet wide concrete and six inches thick minimum Doug, what does your client say about that? Mr. Martin, two things. Number one is earlier you had said you wanted to adjust the hours. are you willing to back off that request and then number two mr. Glover has asked about the number five being revised we might be able to agree to the hours if we could say maybe the no no loader after those hours I mean the question is that mr. Acton below his his conditional use if they bring their trucks back at 430. You know, just like you all, their days aren't, you know, like clock from seven, exactly from 734 every day. I would say that we oftentimes put time limits on uses that are more intensive than the surrounding area to give the neighbors peace and quiet during certain times. So, I mean, if we do this for light industrial, we do this for their uses. So I don't foresee it being an issue that he has to stop at four. Would delivery hours be more specific? I mean, then I guess I didn't. Hours of operation. I'm sorry. Would hours of delivery, you know, that would, you know, restricting the loading delivery hours be more. That'd be a little more restrictive definition, but give you a little better. Yeah, absolutely. More flexibility. I I think, can you agree to no loader after those hours? We could agree to no loader except during those hours. We could agree to no deliveries except during those hours. But at the end of the day, I mean, if they don't do this. When you say loader, are you talking about the bobcat? Yeah, the front end loader picks the trees up. So that's what makes noise. But he wants the ability to water plants on Sunday. It's his farm. When I lived on 10 acres in Woodford County, I mowed every day out there. So you mow on a farm on a Sunday. That's when you usually have time to do that kind of stuff. I'm reading the application not to apply to the entire farm, just for the part that you need permission from us to operate. Yeah, and I should put the word generally in the hours. But those are their general operating hours. But sometimes they come back later. And what occurs in the barn? I'm sorry? What occurs in the barn? A lot of junk. And I don't know if you all have junk barns or junk garages. I have one bay in my garage. It's completely junk. It looks a lot like the unusable bay of my garage. There's just a lot of stuff in there. And you'd rather be in there than outside. So it's storage of materials and inventory, not equipment? There's some equipment in there. There's maybe thousands of those plastic buckets in there. there's you know there's a you know maybe a dozen bags of rock salt that I could see what were the big things oh yes soil amendment there's these big sort of bales of soil amendment in there and you'd rather have it in the barn than than outside that's that would make it look worse it's not necessary for parking in vehicles no you couldn't possibly get a car and we don't need to park any vehicles on the R1B for your operations? Well, except we're near the barn, you know, I guess we would like to continue to park on that 50-foot part, but just because... It feels like you need a more of a buffer than parking vehicles right up in someone's back fence. Well, it's about 50 feet away from their back fence, something like that. And 177 is more like a hundred feet from their back fence and 177 is kind of more more around and you know to the side but you know we're we're going to plant the trees and they get fairly tall we're open to suggestions you know something that works and but i i just i would what i'm trying to avoid are tripwires where an employee brings something back and leaves it you know leaves the truck by the barn and suddenly we're out of compliance or something like that and it's not legal to put a car on an r1d well if you're out of compliance you'll be back in front of us to get your permit revoked so you can exactly we don't want to come back yeah you are but i think what about the 100 foot issue that traffic engineering has brought into 30 foot wide well i was trying to have a sidebar with mr ecton about whether this is going to put him out of business i don't know the cost of a 30 foot wide with a 50 foot skirt uh concrete driveway maybe a what a foot deep maybe six inches i think six inches on top of gravel and a base 100 feet long i don't know whether that's twenty thousand dollars thirty thousand dollars i don't i i don't have any idea well it's twice it's twice what a 50 foot road would be it's a lot more than than gravel because the existing thing thinks is gravel or paved sure and so it is enormously more expensive than to extend gravel up there well the alternative would be not to have semi trucks come i mean that's isn't that right traffic engineering yes unless he wants to uh pay swagger to have any for the city we'd be welcome to have him and pave it for us? I'm sorry, pave for what? You can pave Swigert Avenue for the city. We'd be fine with that. Oh, pave Swigert Avenue? Well, we're going to do whatever is required about the delivery trucks. I would say that the issue is that you can't be parking semi-trucks on a regular basis on Swigert for your business. Two hours a month is what it is. And I would guarantee you that the UPS and FedEx trucks out there are vastly exceed that. Everyone. I see your point. So let's go back to this number three. So hours of deliveries and loading equipment would be limited to these time periods? Sure. You guys be fine with that? So between 7.30 and 4. Good. And on number five, I guess you still have an issue with him. What should gravel or paved? What traffic engineering is insisting. Here's the thing, Doug. Any business that puts in has to comply with the standards of the city. I understand. The language in the conditions, in Condition 5, is graveled or paved. And I think what traffic is recommending instead is concrete and extended. So that's basically the question that we typically ask an applicant, would you agree to what traffic recommends? What I don't know is if this is cost prohibitive and this just puts them out of business. I don't know how much that road costs. So I just don't know how much it costs. It's 30 feet. It's like my driveway is maybe 30 feet wide. If we included a condition that included traffic's recommendation, we wouldn't know if that put you out of business until you didn't comply. Right. So I don't see any harm if we impose that kind of condition. Okay. And you can find out. It currently says, oh, it says, so we're going to change the 50 feet to 100 feet? Yes. And the gravel basically changed that to paved concrete. Paved concrete or paved. I think paved was the word. Where does it say concrete? Number five. It says graveled or paved. It's going to be concrete. what if he yeah six inches I think that's if he has a semi with the trailers if he's just using goosenecks that's not what he's requiring I think it depends on where'd this go from? Steve gave it before you showed up today. Oh, good. I am still very concerned over the definition of a plant nursery when the applicant clearly states they're going to be doing a commercial landscape business. I don't believe it is a plant nursery. And that's what their, at least that's what staff has down, that they are going to conduct the plant nursery use. And I do not believe that's what this is. I think this is an extended commercial landscape business. It may be. Yeah. And I like Ms. Carter's language better because she's more articulate than I am about these things. But it sounded to me like this was an agricultural use, whatever you call it. that plant nursery was the definition plant nursery was what was proposed by staff to fit their application, not vice versa. And I think that's what, I mean, that's what I guess had me concerned early on as well. You know, what's the difference? And I'm agreeing with you. I do not see it as the narrow definition of the plant, the nursery. But the point for me is it's still the ultimate purpose. They're growing plants to sell them. They're not growing plants because they're pretty or just to beautify the farm. The point of the plant nursery is to grow plants for a commercial purpose. so their ultimate outcome where they go is still the I mean it's not the defining factor deciding factor and what they're doing on that particular piece of land for me this is a question for staff what would you consider Louie's flower powers that pop up in these parking lots over the summer is that a nursery no that would be that would be something else because of the retail aspect this is a plant nursery is strictly the growing and cultivating of the plants. And I think sort of a distinguishing factor between a plant nursery and a landscaping business, which would probably not be permitted in the AR zone, even as a conditional use, is the difference between whether or not we're just storing plants for an intermittent time here, or if it's the full-blown landscaping business where you're storing other materials and other equipment that's coming and going and things like that. So I think it is necessary to perhaps add some conditions about what is being stored here and what is coming and going from this site if you want to limit this to a plant nursery which is an improvable conditional use in the zone so are you saying that that a landscaping uh a landscaping business would not be a something we could approve for an ar zone most likely so so where do you put a landscaping business if it's not air zone light industrial yeah typically warehouse and industrial zones it's okay well but all the other plant nurseries the places we go to part are we saying those are different places there are several different uses in the ordinance yes like commercial greenhouse is a different use a garden center is a different use those are ones that would have the the commercial the retail aspect a garden center is what you're gonna see when you're thinking about some of the larger and some of them are a nursery and a garden center so they are growing everything there and they're also have the retail sales aspect and wholesale aspects so it's a differentiation between the two uses so so mr. Martin would your client be agreeable to prohibiting the storage of other materials that may be normally a landscape type material like for example You can't be putting rock salt if it's used for landscaping business. It's not part of a nursery. We've already proposed in number two to prohibit retail operations. So I think that covered. Well, storing loads of rock isn't retail if you're going to use it in your landscape business, but it's part of the landscape. It's not part of a nursery. I think that's a point staff has made. Are those things prohibited from being on a farm normally? I mean, you have a farm, you can't have... You can't store rock on a farm. I mean, I don't see why that would be a prohibition from the normal use of your farm. I don't know. It's getting awful complicated. It's because of the commercial. To me, it's the commercial aspect of this that I see. You know, I live on a farm. I have rock on the farm. But I don't have you know people coming and going out of my farm to to to run You know this commercial business, you know that the rock is there because it's needed on the farm It's not to go out and do a job Yeah, I mean yeah, you know I'd just like to add again. It doesn't necessarily mean whether I'm going to agree or disagree. That's not the point right now. But I think if we approve this, I'm going to change in my mind the definition of what a plant nursery is. And I think we would approve this. If we approve it, we're going to approve it based on a portion of what a landscaping business is. And I want to be real honest about that. I think we need to understand that's what this is. And I don't disagree with Ms. Carter either because I think she has a valid point. But if we approve it, I think we need to approve it with our eyes open so we understand. And even with all the conditions that we might impose, which I think are appropriate to help the neighbors at least. So I think the idea, will you prove what's going on with some conditions that can help kind of clean this up so it fits more into the neighborhood? And I think that's what we've tried to do with the conditions, because this business that he's operating is a hybrid kind of business. So, I mean, you wouldn't restrict a plant nursery from retail operation, for example. You would, yes. By definition, the plant nursery does not include retail sales. Okay. Can we understand that? I think for context here, could I put up the definition of a kind of a next level of intensity above a plant nursery, which is a commercial greenhouse, and then show you the standards that apply to that? I'll try to make it quick if you want me to do that. I think that'd be helpful. I'd like to see them side by side. I think what staff was trying to do was trying to categorize what this business is and what staff concluded was that it was a plant nursery it may be something else so so there's your commercial greenhouse now commercial greenhouse is also a conditional use in the ar zone and this kind of like mr glover you just said this is kind of a hybrid what's going on there now between a plant nursery and a commercial greenhouse but if you read through that definition you'll talk about plants in containers etc so once you've kind of absorbed that i can put up the standards and criteria that apply to a commercial greenhouse in the ar zone as a conditional use And it's much, I can tell you, just to get your heads oriented that way, it's much more intensive. There's a lot of conditions applied to a commercial greenhouse about buffering and other criteria. So you want me to go ahead and put that up? on the right hand side there this is from the ar zone with the conditional uses number five there commercial greenhouse and then a 20-foot wide landscape easement and then about structures and b but if we can kind of to go down to F is a real critical one very relevant to a lot of the discussion today all driveways and parking areas shall be paved or sealed to prevent us well that's not the right one it's E the commercial greenhouse shall be located where easily accessible by arterial roads all roads to the site should be of sufficient width and constructed to safely handle all sizes of trucks and so again that the reason this is so restrictive is because it's a level of intensity above what a hate to say typical but what a what's described as a plant nursery Thank you. Jim, there's nothing in it based on commercial contract or commercial nurseries but landscaping there's nothing in the zoning ordinance that talks about commercial landscaping besides greenhouse and plant nursery not an AR we'd have to look through the detailed language of several other zones like B4 wholesale and warehouse and light industrial to see if there's that specifically mentioned or something similar to that but I only it is not specifically mentioned in the AR zone okay thank you does the uh the is the fact that this is a split zone property i'm kind of i'm kind of curious uh um it seems to me that when the zoning ordinance was written there was an underlying assumption that agricultural zones would abut maybe commercial zones that would or light industrial zones that would then abut commercial that would then abut residential so that there's a blending of of zones with from less restrictive to more restrictive and the does the fact that this is a piece of split zone property that is agricultural abutting a residential residential 1b is that unusual for the first place and if not does that does that enter into this discussion i think we have split zoned properties throughout the county it's not necessarily typical but we do run into them from time to time and i think it's sort of a you just have to have to look at the specific site whenever you're looking at a conditional use and the this is a two-part request a conditional use for the use on the ar portion and then a conditional use to extend that the regulations for the AR 50 feet so there are two requests here I don't know if that clears the water or not but well I'm trying to make it simple and we've and I'm not succeeding because the request is to establish a plant nursery number one we discussed that in great detail and then to extend the AR regulations beyond it into the r1b zone 50 feet and that's really all that the application is requesting it's not the application is not to it doesn't have much to do with the hours of operation or anything like this the application has to do with the with the geographic boundaries of The use is a conditional use in the AR zone, so even if it were not a split zone property, we would still be asking these questions, I think, about the use on an AR property. It is not a use that would be permitted in an R1B zone on its own as a conditional use. So this is, because it is partially AR zone, the reason that it is a possibility, yes. I understand. Thank you. here's kind of having listened to the neighbors and I think part of the issue is it appears that I'm just gonna go ahead mr. Ecton appears to have been a relatively poor neighbor in his operations of his business given the burning and the other things um i think that if that that's probably caused more issue than i think it should be necessary for this application so just some of my thoughts on some of the conditions we discussed the hours being limited for deliveries and loading we've discussed with traffic engineering about the hundred foot and the widening of the access so that the semis will be parked on the property rather than parked in the road. Another opportunity may be no parking of commercial vehicles in the R1B zone except for loading. Another option would be no storage of inventory materials or equipment in the R1B zone other than within the barn so that the neighbors aren't looking at storage and other items. You know, with the burning, all burning on the property shall comply with laws and ordinances so that if he can, you know, trash and other things that aren't supposed to be burned continue to be burned, that neighbors could come back before us to discuss that issue. And so I don't know if there's anything else, but those are kind of the main issues that the neighbors brought forward. I mean, a fort, oh, well, I think that's kind of the no storage of inventory. I guess I could put garbage of, what would you call that, Ms. Jones, a legal term for rubbish? well i mean what i was hearing when i was listening to that was that the fact that rather than having the garbage either collected or removed it was being stored on site so um you know i think you could require a condition that would say you know track no trash or rubbish will be stored on site and shall be removed and hopefully that would address you know or could we say stored in an enclosure i mean my understanding is and i don't think it was a problem to have it removed okay so what would you what would you mention that way i'll be with you doug in a second what would you i mean what would you say for that condition i would i would say that no no trash or rubbish maybe not even rubbish is maybe just trash should be stored on site and it shall be removed that's what i would say um you know i'm certainly not the perfect wordsmith so if the if mr martin has another suggestion but i i heard them say they aren't opposed to having it removed so that's where i'm getting that from but here's what i like there's there any other issues that the board would like to see assuming i'm even saying we're going to approve this but if the word be approved any other condition you would want well i put it on here all burning on the property shall comply with laws but here's the thing is i mean having grown up in an agricultural area you often burn rubbish in your burn piles the key is making sure it's done in compliance with the laws and ordinances and if it's not and we get complaints that you know the staff could bring that to our attention well it is okay to burn in the agricultural area well i mean any of these neighbors could get a permit to burn and they're in their in their backfield so yeah I mean we could limit burning well you could easily say you know you can only burn you know once a month you know I mean that could be done so I mean I don't know I'm just asking you guys I also want to hear thing is it's 520 we've been here all afternoon listening to this I'm trying to get us to a resolution where we either vote this sucker up or down based on conditions if you guys want conditions what i'd like to do is for us to flesh them out then give mr martin and miss jones opportunity and staff to look at them and make sure they're all comfortable that they can be complied with from a enforcement issue and then we can bring it to the we at least have amended conditions that we can then bring to a vote and we can put this application to a yes or no because we there's no more testimony to be heard and we're just bickering back and forth on sort of some of the I wouldn't call minor issues but issues that I think we're at a point where we can put this thing push this thing forward and I like what you read I mean that you were drafting and I like what you drafted they addressed the concerns of the neighbors I thought adequately I think we should be careful with the burning Because if you require any burning on the property to be addressed in accordance with the laws and ordinances, the state, federal, and local laws, and they're going to be enforced by the Division of Fire, I mean, in emergency services, if you don't have a permit and you're burning, you know what I mean? I don't want you to get too far afield outside of the purview of this board. when there's a provision in another department that deals with that on a regular basis and is going to deal with situations if we're having a drought, if we're too dry, if we're not going to issue a permit, then they're not going to do it. And if people do it anyway, then that's a different problem. Okay, so if it's legal's recommendation that we allow the other department to address the burning issue, you can put a condition in there that says that any burning on the property must be compliant with local, state, and federal laws, and I think that will address it. Okay, so I have in there, all burning on the property shall comply with laws and ordinances. Is that good with you, Ms. Jones? I'm okay with that. Okay. Yeah, that's good. Any other, my only other, I think all that's going fine. On number four, based on what was proposed, proposed screening was eight foot Norway spruces. It looks like it says nine in parentheses on this site plan that was provided. And in the conditions, it says at least three. Mr. Martin? It's an additional three to the proposed nine. An additional three to the proposed nine? Yes. Okay. The original nine are sort of covered under the condition one that it be operated in accordance with the site plan, and then we're requesting an additional three. And those are the three that run perpendicular. So it'll be a total of 12. A total of 12 along the property line that runs parallel to Swagger. All right, I'm going to put in a total in 12 because I did not read it that way. Okay. Anything else? Because what my plan is, I'm going to take a 10-minute recess. I'm going to allow legal and the applicant and staff to weigh in on these conditions. and then after the 10 minutes i'm going to hopefully put the sucker to a vote thank you recess okay mr martin why talk with the staff or do we just wait you could talk with miss jones i'm going to hand her this piece of paper okay okay we're out of recess um and i'm gonna i'm gonna go through these quickly so that because they're kind of hard to read i will reread them for the audience but the applicant is okay with the is agreeable to the conditions as set forth on this board not yet okay so I want to bring up one issue it says no trash shall be stored on site for oh for longer than a week yeah we had better all right she Tracy brought that to my attention I was like well you know which seems like a reasonable just like at your home you You store it for a while, and then you take it away. Yeah. So with that, are you agreeable? Yes. Yes. All right, perfect. So just for the audience and for those who cannot see, well, we've modified some of the conditional uses to address some of the issues that were brought to our attention today by you. I will say that sometimes democracy at work, watching the sausage be made, is not beautiful or fun. But what the staff and the applicant and legal have made is some modifications to the conditional use. The first modification will be to number three, that the hours of deliveries and loading will be limited to 7.30 to 4 p.m. So the applicant would be able to do some other miscellaneous operations, but he wouldn't be able to use his loading equipment and accept deliveries to hopefully protect some of the neighbors from noise and issues. The landscaping, the plan, the site plan that had been brought as part of the application, it's going to be clear that there's going to be a total of 12 Norway spruces planted for some buffering. On number five, the modification is that the in-traffic engineering has given the applicant um essentially the it's uh i can't can't read that far it is the uh drawing 37-2 which essentially shows what the driveway how it needs to be improved and that has been um adopted the next one for number six it's been adopted by traffic engineering and we can probably put it in the file if that'll help well that's upset yeah they've got it he handed out copies so i've got a copy here so this will be port and staff has a copy of this um i must number six is going to be modified just because the applicant will need time to get some of these um for the for example the roadway issue taken care of um so that will be extended from 30 days to 60 days no parking of commercial vehicles in the r1b zone except for loading then no storage or of inventory materials or equipment in the r1b zone other than within the barn and both of those the idea will be for some buffering between the residential properties and the operation number nine to address the trash issues we've got no trash shall be stored on site for longer than a week and then number 10 the conditional use permit shall comply with all local state and federal laws to essentially capture anything else that may be out there that needs to be addressed and so that's what the applicant has agreed to and i guess i will now open it up to the board if they have any discussions on on these points but i would like to bring this to a vote one way or the other It doesn't specifically say removed from the property, but it says no trash shall be stored on site for longer than a week. So I think implicit in that would be removed within a week. um well mr martin a board members asked for number nine to be revised to say no trash shall be stored on site uh for longer than shall be i don't know how we would she wants it to say removed somehow. I didn't hear that. I'm sorry. Um, on number nine, um, she wanted to make it specified that, and I think we could just do this, but it's clear that number nine where it says no trash shall be stored on site for longer than a week. I think we both agree that that means that it will be removed within a week. Yeah. Okay. I think that takes care of it's on the record. We can always look at the tape. We've said that on the record. Yes. Yeah. Um, Any other? I think the deliveries out front are going to be handled by number five regarding the driveway. They're already not allowed to use the street for deliveries as it is. They're supposed to have a permit if they want to do that. And then also the hours, deliveries and loading being limited to the hours. the hours i think that addresses is to address the truck deliveries any other questions all right we're hearing none then i will entertain a motion one way or the other but please make sure if you adopt it you make sure it's the amended conditions as set forth on the board I'll take a stab at it. You can correct me as I go if you want. Mr. Chair, I move we approve PLNBOA 18-83 Michael Acton's request for a conditional use permit to number one establish a plant nursery and number two to extend the regulations for the AR portion of the lot 50 feet beyond the zone line into the remaining r1b portion of the lot in order to conduct the plant nursery use on the r1b portion at a split zone property in agricultural rural and single family residential zones at 191 swigert avenue based upon the staff's recommendation the testimony we heard today and the 10 conditions that were shown on the screen. Thank you, Mr. Glover. Do I have a second? I second. Ms. Carter seconds. Is there any discussion on the motion before we bring it to a vote? Hearing none, then I'll call a vote. All right, the application is approved. Good luck with your project. that takes us to the next item which will be board items um we've got a couple things today number one we need to address i think elections of officers ms jones is that should that be done today or do we need to push that to next month i i think you can push it to next month but hang on we discussed the last month about we needed a vote this month where it wasn't on the agenda right it's supposed to be annual hang on one second and while miss jones is looking at that something else has been brought to my attention by several board members is whether or not we want to discuss when persons come before us stating that they're in front they're from a neighborhood association or some other association that we have some kind of documentation in the file that the actual organization has submitted something we've had a couple issues where people state they are from organizations and that may or may not be an accurate representation of that which entangles also the unauthorized practice of law issue and so um i didn't know if we wanted to have legal and staff discuss that issue and maybe come back with a recommendation for us next month of what they think and like i said i think the issue is sometimes people say i'm from abc homeowners association but then we hear from other parties after the fact that no that person wasn't there on behalf of us i think that's and i think maybe be yes yeah i think i think a lot of the problem has been that we have people that say i i'm the president of and recommend i mean i represent the neighborhood association and of course that involves the practicing of law so and that can add this i think it's a semantic problem or a semantic issue that if a neighborhood association representative stands up and says I am the president of the association. I think there are two. I think the issue that has been referred to my attention would be one in which someone says, I am with the ABC organization, and then to come find out ABC organization didn't take a position, and that person wasn't authorized to bring a position to our board. Let me make this suggestion. I think those are two issues there. they're not going to be very easy to discuss but maybe a discussion maybe if this if the set if the rest of staff is agreeable to this maybe we after we adjourn at our meeting in February we could just have a brief like maybe like workshop and just talk about that specifically would that be okay with you and we could be prepared to do that because I'm not sure I understand the issue about saying I'm representing somebody but the other one I'm not fully aware of so i'd rather do it that way than that works for us try to do that and then in terms of an election your bylaws do say january but since it's not on the agenda and since of the late hour i mean i can tell you in our experience we don't have elections every january exactly as we would like to and it's not going to be a problem if you want to um you know recognize that you need to do that and put it on the agenda next time i'd say let's put on the agenda for next month well it wasn't published to the public so i think i think i think tracy's saying we should probably wait till next month so let's put on make sure it's on the agenda for next month we'll hold elections at that time for the officers um any staff items while we're here okay our next meeting is february 11th at uh at 1 30 p.m which is our new hour and um we're adjourned Thank you. Thank you.