The ¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶ Thank you. ¶¶ ¶¶ Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The Historic Preservation Office maintains a full-time staff to assist you with your projects. The Board encourages and recommends that applicants use them as a resource. The Historic Preservation Office is located at 101 East Vine Street, Room 220. It is our procedure to consider applications in the order in which they are listed on our agenda. In each case, we'll have a presentation by the staff and we'll hear any additional comments from the applicant. The Board will then ask questions or make comments regarding the application and then hear comments from other interested parties. The Chair will then ask Board Members to enter a motion. If you wish to address the Board, please come to the microphone and state your name and address for the public record. We also ask that you write your name on the sign-in sheet by the door so that the information can be recorded correctly. I would like to note the following staff approvals before we begin our review of applications. There are certain items that the staff can approve, eliminating the necessity for all applicants to appear before the Board. There are a total of 17 approved applications noted on today's agenda. They are as follows. In the Ashland Park Historic District at 132 South Hanover Avenue, replace fence and gate. At 214 South Hanover Avenue, replace driveway apron. In the Ellsworth Historic District at 334 East High Street, replace installed rear fence. At 147 Woodland Avenue, remove tree. In the Bell Court Historic District at 140 East Bell, renovate site, pave driveway, and replace fencing. At 209 East Bell Court, reissue the COA. At 163 Forest Avenue, replace roof. At 625 Sarah Avenue, replace fence. At 629 Sarah Avenue, replace fence. In the Fayette Park Historic District at 424 Fayette Park, reissue the COA. in the north side historic district at 262 north broadway renovate structure in sight 412 west third street renovate the rear sleeping porch and site 495 west third street reissue the cla in the seven parts historic district at 1603 nicholasville road repair roof in the south hill historic district at 431 south mill street replace the front walkway 432 south mill street Tuck Point the structure and finally at the Woodford Heights historic district at 338 Marino Street renovate site we'll turn now to our first application at 326 South Broadway install the front yard shine itch get the applicants here come on Thank you very much. State your name for the record, please. Yes, my name is Dan Rose, and I'm one of the owners of a company called Priscus LLC, which is the owner of the property at 326 South Broadway. Okay, Mr. Rose, I note that the staff has recommended approval of the application to change the sign-out. They're subject to what I call the standard conditions, the first one being once reviewed by the other lfucg divisions resubmitting changes to the staff or board for review and approval prior to start at work number two if any changes are made that altered information submitted resubmit the changes of staff review and approval prior to start at work are we in agreement with those conditions yes sir all right any comments from the board members any comments from the audience if not then the chair is ready for a motion. I will note for this motion I will not be participating in the motion nor will I be voting. Mr. Chairman, I move to approve the application for certificate of appropriateness for case number 02501, I'm sorry, 02510326-I at 326 South Broadway with our two standard conditions. Do I have a second? Second. Any further discussion on the motion? The Chair will call the question. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Please note for the record that the Chair is abstaining. Thank you very much. R has recused, actually. Thank you. Thank you. At 222 Clay Avenues, there's application number two. Is the applicant here? Come on up. The scope of work on this particular application is construct rear dormer in addition and patio, reconstruct the driveway, and rebuild the front shed dormer. The staff has reviewed your application, and they have made a couple substantive changes. I'll read them into the record. the first being change the front roof shed roof to three over 12 pitch to allow for the use of the composite shingles number two is change the dormer to shed roof to lower profile of the new dormer and the other two are what i've been referring to as the standard conditions those are that if you alter the information submitted resubmit the changes to staff for review and approval prior to start of work and once reviewed by the other divisions any changes shall be returned to staff or board for review and approval prior to start of work are you in agreement with those changes yes all right any questions or comments from the board members any questions or comments from the audience chairs and ready for a motion mr. chairman relative to case number Case number 04140222G. I move that we approve this application for a certificate of appropriateness for the work proposed in this middle and reviewed and approved by the staff with the conditions that you just read. um all right do i have a second second okay we have a motion to approve the application and submitted subject to the four conditions as read into the record any further discussion on the motion if not the chair calls a question all those in favor say aye aye motion passes thank you thank you so much for your cooperation thank you all right thank you all right turning out to 224 south ashland avenue your mic can you turn your mic on thank you uh turning out to 224 south ashland avenue scope of work is construct barrage in addition uh is the applicant here applicant one okay come on Hi there, John Cheatham, Graves Architects. All right, Mr. Cheatham. I'm sorry, what's your name again? John Cheatham. All right, are you the architect? Yes, sir. All right. I just didn't see your name on the sheet. Steve Graves Architects. Yes. Okay, thank you. The staff has recommended approval of the COAs subject to a couple of what I call substantive conditions and conditions three and four being the standard ones that I've read into the record. The first substantive condition is the side gable and siding in lieu of brick with final details returned to the staff for review and approval prior to issuance of COA. The second substantive application is more windows be added to the side gable with final details returned to staff for review and approval prior to the issuance of the COA. In the guidelines, the staff has suggested perhaps at least three windows to lighten the load, I guess, of the side. Are you in agreement with those? Yeah, we're happy to comply with that. All right. Any questions or comments from the board members? No. Okay, my dwindling audience. Anything from the audience? If not, then the chair will ask for a motion. Mr. Chairman, I move to approve the application for a certificate of appropriateness on case number 08760125-E at 224 South Ashland Avenue. All right, do I have a second? Second. Any further discussion on the motion? If not, the chair will call the question. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Motion passes and your certificate's been approved. Thank you. As conditioned. Thank you. Turning now to 591 West Short Street. The scope of work is Construct Shedd. Is the applicant here? Yes. Come on up. Good evening. Good evening. Can you state your name for the record please? Kelly Bailey Harris. Harris. I will note that the staff has recommended disapproval of your application for the COA to place on the parking lot, for lack of a better word, the shed that has been proposed. Yes. I will note for the record we do have a letter of objection. It's not signed, but it's going to be entered into the record regarding 591 West Short Street. I won't read the letter into the record, but it's noted. I think we read the letter last time. We've also had findings. I'm wondering, do we need to go back through another presentation of the findings? Because there have been a couple changes. That is certainly the board's choice. The staff is glad to do so if you would like. I tell you what, for the record, let's go through the application and the reasons for the denial. So whose is this? Mr. Dennis. All right, Barry. Mr. Dennis, if you'll make your presentation, please. Ms. Harris, you may sit down if you like. Thank you. 591 West Short Street. The scope of work is to construct a shed. the applicant is requesting a certificate of appropriateness to construct a shed on the southwest corner of the site adjacent to short street well is it working I was going to show the photos as I went through but staff had had a preliminary discussion with the applicant. If you pull the battery out and put it back in it may work. Oh there we go, never fails. I'm assuming the picture is showing the brown structure is being the shed being proposed. yes this is the shed in question this is the existing structure which houses the wagon bones barbecue this is looking towards the southeast across the parking lot and again the shed the cars are traveling on short street and Jefferson would be to the right and this is looking from the east back towards the back of the shed and the property line is approximately in this location um staff had preliminary discussion with the applicant about the plans for use of the site that is to include a rollaway bar exterior seating and some type of structure staff suggested that site design and especially less parking would be a concern since the boi boar originally reviewed the case the parking issue has been cleared up with an agreement to allow parking at the Main Street Baptist Church. No final plan, details, or COA application were filed with the office. At a later point in time, while in the area, staff discovered a prefabricated shed had been installed on the site and contacted the applicant who submitted a COA application to retain the shed. The application did not originally have the owner's signature. The application has now been provided or the applicant has now provided the COA application with the owner's signature the guidelines are included for your use findings the staff finds that the proposal to construct the structure does not meet guidelines and may not comply with LFC Z zoning regulations for or B1 neighborhood zone in regard to setbacks. We don't know that. That would be through planning. The proposal does not comply with guideline 2B2A, which states that outbuildings should be located in character with other secondary buildings for the street, near an alley, or at the rear of the property, not close to or attached to the primary building, nor does it follow design guidelines established for new construction of primary buildings per 2B, 2G. Additionally, if reviewed as a commercial building based on its location and design, the proposal does not meet 2B, 3G, and 2B, 3H, which state, respectively, commercial buildings should be compatible in design, shape, proportion, and scale to other commercial buildings along the street and within the historic district and follow design guidelines established for new construction of primary buildings. The staff recommends denial of the certificate of appropriateness. Okay, I have a process question, and I think this may be more directed to our attorney. Before an applicant comes to us to get approval for a particular building, do they need to first get clearance from the other divisions as to setback? I can't hear you. They come here first. Come here first, okay. And then once we approve, if we approve it. We could approve it, but it could run into. It would go to a division, and if they say, nope, this doesn't fit, then. All right, then my question is, do we really take into consideration, zoning considerations as part of the approval process? Typically, we don't. We just go by our guidelines. That's what I thought. I think based on what Barry was saying was just that it may violate those just as a statement. It's just an aside, basically. Yes. As lawyers like to say, dicta. And essentially, you can't, the permit is no longer valid if you cannot, your COA is no longer valid if you cannot get your other necessary permits. Right, it's subject to being approved by the other divisions. i just wanted to check and make sure because i was entertaining and thought well do we kick this out and let her see whether it can get approval from the other divisions but we'll we'll go ahead and consider it uh any miss harris coming up well first i thank you guys for your time and thank you for considering my application again i appreciate that um now i did go forth i did talk to them and try to get the things that they asked for i did get the signature onto the application that she asked i did go to mr jarman which is part of the planning and zone i think where he approved well he told me that everything's okay the parking's fine and the way it's set up and i did talk to barry i don't know your last name i talked to him on yesterday and informed him and um i um i also asked mr jarman to email them i think amelia did he email you okay well i asked him to email them as well to inform them of his findings and according to him when he said to me that everything was okay that i'm good to go they have no problems whatsoever i can try to get a letter from him if you guys will allow me to meet another time but i can get that letter stating that and then also when i talked to dennis on the other day i think they were looking for more of oh first let me address some of the things that is this the only place i could put that shed back behind there is not my property and on the other side you can't put it because the property the building is this much left on the other side like a game way to go to the alley i have no other spot but that other spots taken up by my grill if you've seen it earlier the other spot is taken by grill but initially i would like to state that when they came out i did ask them um about where could a location be and i did sit and talk with mr dennis mr dennis and amelia i don't i can't remember her last name but i did talk to both of them before any of this had been put together and this is the spot that they told me that i could do so and i did so but other things have happen in the meantime and i don't want to cause more problems i'm more of a person who would like to try find solutions and get things done um i'm i informed mr dennis on the other day that that's not the finished project product of the shed i think they were more addressed that it does not look like the building and i told him they were adding the shingles to it to match the building so that would be one it's also going to be painted to match the building i'm just doing it in stages because it's coming out of my pocket i really don't have any money um and then also their skirt will be addressed around it as well so you don't see the bricks or the high rise of it and any other thing that they would like me to add to make the appearance look good to the building other than i'm not changing the wood i like the wood because it's my theme of barbecue but i think mr dennis told me they're not caring about the wood but if i do take the shed top the roof to make the roof look like my other roof by putting the brown shed the brown shingles on it as you can see i didn't know y'all had it back behind me but as you can see the little um shingles clay shingles i'm going to put the little chocolate ones on the roof of that one as well so and then you can't see it really but around it like the skirt but i'm trying to make it as appealing to the to the property as well i have as i stated earlier i have no other place to put that thing but i do need it because my building is only nine hundred square feet is taken up with that's the city of the customers in a very small kitchen already and inside that shed it holds it holds my patio furniture and every and my my catering equipment and then i don't have to fight no more about my garbage cans because the people behind me take my garbage cans and everybody put everything in my garbage cans this kept my garbage cans kind of safe and out the way from the people basically um and like i would like to state again whatever you guys need me to comply with i would like to add to it i will i'm able to do it and willing to do it um i if you want to approve this with a based on a contingency that i get the roof done um and i get the thing around the bottom taken care of if that's the pill that's the problem of the shed other than a complaint because it hides my window which no one even sit in that window or the window is filled with i have polos in the window majority of times where i put my um for the seats for outside so i don't even use the window and if anybody cares about the window would be me okay i'm not entirely sure this shed can work under any circumstances but mr dennis if you'll come up for a moment i'm assuming that you miss harris have been talking is there a way and what i'm actually thinking is if she withdrew this application and reworked it to make it in more conformity with the guidelines along what she's been saying can that get it to the place where it can be approved i'm not asking for promises i'm just asking for your thoughts Mr. Chair, may I make a process comment while he's thinking? Mm-hmm. Be thinking. But it is not possible for her to withdraw this application because this is a matter in violation. If this were only on paper as a proposal, she could certainly withdraw. But the work has already been carried out. She's already put it in place. That's correct. So a decision needs to be rendered on this application, yes or no, or yes with conditions, or have a continuance. The deadline for action on this while we're talking is June the 27th. Well, I'm assuming that the suggestions that she has been making has not actually been incorporated into her application, correct? Well, let Mr. Dennis address. Yes. I met with Ms. Harris. She dropped into the office yesterday. afternoon and told us or told me that she had those plans for the structure and during our discussion i you know let her know that you know there's no way for us to review and give direction without having something to look at and so we would need some drawings of some type to determine if it would then be compatible with the site our other issue based as mentioned in the staff report is that it has the appearance of a storage shed and if you look at it as a storage shed then the guidelines talk about it needing to be placed on the back of the property you know they're normally not on a major cross street so that's why the staff report goes on to talk about if it is a commercial structure then you know it needs to be upgraded it it would need to have a foundation and have more of a commercial finished appearance and then that would get it away from the shed which also talks about not being close to the primary structure if it was a commercial there is there are definitely ways that it could be done whether or not it would be cost prohibitive and if she would like to go that route i cannot answer okay I think at this point you're asking us or we would almost need to do some design recommendations to give to her which is not normally. It's not due to normal. I understand. We're really prohibited from doing that. Let's get some comments and observations from the other board members first. Ms. Tate. I'd like to mention that since I've been on the board, this is the strongest group of people who were willing to write their letters and tell us why this group has been important to them and important to the neighborhood. And I keep coming back to... I think it does more damage to try to make it look like it's an integral part that satisfies our recommendations. To me, having it look like what it is does not really have a negative impact on that corner building, which is a special building in that neighborhood. And I think it's just a really difficult project to try to fit it into requirements that really don't, really don't, that aren't written for these prefab storage units. All right. Josh, any comments? I think the way things are, I think the way our guidelines are written, this one does not comply. I am trying to scratch my head here if there's any way. Is there any amount of site screening that could be employed here to change the definition of location? I could read. Referring back to the actual site. I'm pretty familiar with this place. So yeah, I mean, talk your way around it. I'm there all the time. So you have pretty narrow street frontage with a drive-in from Jefferson and also one from Short Street. You know, is there the possibility that there could be some landscape screening put around this corner? Possibly here? No. How does this board deal with a dumpster enclosure? Or how do our guidelines deal with that? I don't think I've ever seen it talk about one. We have had those on new commercial. We look at them basically as fences or site walls, typically. and the site utilization and where the best place is to accomplish that is reviewed and um you know trying to make it and i'm not sure if you as little impact as possible i'm not sure if you were here at the time but on second street there was a garage with a pavilion that was reviewed and that had some you know herbie screening that the board required to move from a side property line around behind the there's no behind here is the problem yeah i understand so as far as could it be screened an attempt could be made i don't do not know how effective it would be well the issue is with the screening bring into i see two issues one is screening it a little bit and the other being putting some kind of a skirt or permanent foundation so that you know it doesn't look like it's sitting on cinder blocks so that if you skirted it would that bring it and shingling it would that bring it more in conformity with the guidelines but i'm wondering if what we really need to do is have this application withdrawn one more not withdrawn but continued for further discussion and plans being written drawings being submitted to you so that you can actually figure out what you're doing correct I believe Miss Harris would have to sign a extension agreement Miss Harris and let me ask a couple questions Miss Harris are you willing to withdraw the not withdraw to continue this matter and waive the deadlines time deadlines in condition to submitting some written detailed plans so that they can figure out what to do with this yes sir I have no problems okay now that may now that may entail you're having to agree to put in some kind of fencing yes and may entail putting in the shingles and putting in the the skirting I that that was I informed him but I didn't give him they're I'm looking forward to writing, but I didn't do it in writing. Okay, but you can't wait until the day before the meeting. Yes. Well, I received his information. They emailed me yesterday, and then that's why I went there, because I received the information on yesterday, so I reacted. Okay. And I went straight there. I think what we need to do, hopefully, is let's go ahead and continue this to another meeting with your waiver, and that you promptly set up a meeting and get some plans to them so they can review before our next. Shall we push it out of the month? Now, are you now permanently back in town or are you still doing this? No, sir, I will be running back and forth, but I will make myself here on your date. As long as I don't, if I don't have a court date already put in place, I'm fine. Okay. i do i know i have to be somewhere on the 8th so i have to be back in chicago on the 8th i do know that so you can pick whatever day you want okay we could push it out to july or could we push out to august now you've got a conflict on august 8th right or on july 8th i gotta be back in chicago on july 8th i just left them i just came back and i was there all day That's your next available meeting is July 10. So she's not going to be available then. Then your second next available meeting is July the 24th. Would that work for you, ma'am? Yes, sir. The next meeting will be for general business August the 28th. Okay, why don't we push this out to July 24th. Before you go to Chicago, sit down with the staff, bring some plans, maybe think about having an architect help you out. You are a nonprofit. they can actually donate some of their time and have it count. And Sarah alluded to something that I skipped over, and we have to point out that you are a nonprofit. You do have the support of your neighborhood, and you've had a lot of letters. They're fairly old, but letters that have supported your efforts, and we are appreciative of that. And I appreciate you guys. You guys do a great job, and I don't want to disturb anything. I want to do right. Okay. I think what we need to do then is we'll entertain a motion to continue the hearing to July 24th. Do we have a motion to effect? Mr. Chairman, relative to this case, which is... I have to go through the wall. There you go. Oh, there we go. Case number 171-705-591-C. I move that we reschedule. Continue. Continue. trying to work through these things by July 24th. July 24th. Okay, do I have a second? Second. All right. Any further discussion on the motion? If not, the chair will call the question. All those in favor of continuing the hearing to July 24, say aye. Aye. Opposed, nay. Motion passes. Ms. Harris, thank you. Thank you for your time, everybody. your time now this is going to probably be your last continuance I understand that and I will work with them believe me all right Mr. Chair I think it's important to note that it is contradictory to the design guidelines to put an additional roofing system on that building it ought to meet the guidelines it is what it is it's got an asphalt shingle at the present time I assume Yeah. So we have a guideline in this process that is very specific to not trying to copy other buildings or make your building look like another building, that being your main building. So putting any kind of shingle on it to give it this look that makes it pretend to be part of the building or have a look like the building next door is contrary to our guidelines. So I wanted to give you a heads up about that while you're thinking about your solutions. I think we have to look at this shed in conjunction with it being a commercial building. And I think what Ms. Curry is trying to point out to you, you may have to sell this particular structure to someone else and put something else in place that will accommodate your catering equipment and your Herbys. I'm just saying that that might be the solution I'm hoping it's not I know I will work with them I'm hoping it works with me so we can work together Okay Ms. Harris And before you leave we have to sign the waiver I'm finishing filling it out Okay thank you Alright this is our last case I do not believe we have minutes yet so we now need to move on to conceptual review All right, and that's at 107 South Ashland Avenue is the applicant here. All right, so let's go ahead and have the presentation of the conceptual review, please. Do you have it? Yes. All right. Good? this is 107 south ashland it's the first house on the west side south ashland avenue south of main street immediately adjacent to donato's and there is some screening here and a wood privacy fence as you see the drawings this is the existing driveway it kind of comes in at an angle and back there is an exist this was used as rental in the past and so there is a door to this fire escape deck, stair. This is looking more towards or from Main Street. This is the rear edition that was constructed prior to 1934. This is the rear of it. We think this is an original opening, original to the edition. There was a one-story porch in this location previous to this addition. This has been added. Kind of a close-up, you can see the difference in detailing between the two canopies. Amazing what they do to buildings. And this is south side of the addition. The addition is wood clapboard siding. It has low slope roof and then buck that tie in at the same elevation as the eaves of the historic structure. And since this is a conceptual, I won't read all of the background. We'll just kind of skip through. I had originally started writing this as a formal staff report. and just hit some of the high points there are some opening changes along this wall where this door has been cut in that's proposed to be filled and then a window put at the second floor elevation once this landing stair is gone there's also a proposal on this the end of the north wall of this L for a new door with landing and stairs so the the main house is from about 1919 and as i mentioned the addition was changed from a porch and enlarged it's not just an enclosed porch prior to 1934 we don't have sanborns that cover precisely the time that it was built so additionally there is a proposal to do a new garage and we'll go through the drawings a little bit so that this was originally proposed to be a 25 foot new curb cut with a drive back to the garage which would have entailed parking in the front yard this is the new garage location this is a new wood deck on the back of the addition and then there is a brick wall proposed around the back of the site that ties in with some of the commercial buildings and it's about six feet ten in height that i believe and then once you come up to the front from this point back there is another brick wall proposed at five foot ten that would be in the location more or less of the wood privacy fence it's there now so that would screen the parking from donato's and the whites and you'll see that better in some of the later drawings since we discussed the front yard parking and the driveway with the applicant sent me these drawings and they narrowed up the drive took out the front parking and kind of changed the expanse here What I didn't mention is on the rear addition that does not come completely across, there is an infill addition in this southwest corner. So this is looking from Ashland, back the driveway at the garage, and the garage, a large single garage door, and vertically aligned steel, possibly steel, they may be a different material, windows in the upper, at the second floor level. is the north elevation this is the l that i had mentioned earlier with the new door and landing and steps this is the location where that wood deck and stair was or is located proposed to be taken out the poche here is where the door would be enclosed and then the new window added which occurs at the end of this stair landing This is the south side of the addition to the addition with the same type of windows on the first and the second floor. The new deck with a steel railing. and then these would be the end piers of the wall that wraps around the site south door or south elevation of the garage and another garage door once this is constructed obviously you wouldn't be able to get a vehicle back there or anything so there are two garage doors proposed one on the south and one on the east. This is the rear elevation. This is the garage and the addition. A large bank of steel windows with a pair of doors at the first level which repeats at the second floor level minus the doors. And I'll let the applicant go through this more, but he did provide this week with some 3D modeling showing what the site will look like. So, Mr. Dennis, basically they are going to replace or tear out most of the siding of the back addition and replace it with windows? It would be a complete exterior rehabilitation. But they're not tearing it off and starting over? They are not. They are only, or at least, not that I'm aware of, right? Yeah, they're adding in this location. you can see that where this void is from the south wall of the historic structure to the later edition you're filling that in yes okay so that would be filled in So, any idea when this addition was built? Sometime between 1919 and 1934. Our Sanborn maps are... But the Sanborn map shows this addition being there as of... 1934. Okay, all right. The 1919 map shows a porch. The 1934 map, which those are the two closest, show the addition. Okay. all right thank you and it shows a two-story edition all right the guidelines are included for your use and findings since this is conceptual the staff has no findings but following there's some questions that the board may want to consider is it appropriate to change the openings in the brick north wall of the historic structure. If the change in openings is found appropriate, is it appropriate to install metal windows in the historic mass of the structure? Now windows or doors. Is it appropriate to construct the garage? Is the fenestration appropriate for the garage? Is it appropriate to enlarge the rear addition? Is it appropriate to change the openings and renovate the rear addition? Which also includes removing all of the existing siding which would be replaced with a I believe a cementitious shiplap siding. Will the changes to the existing addition eradicate too much historic fabric? Is it appropriate to construct the rear deck is it appropriate to construct the seven foot high brick wall around the backyard and is it appropriate to construct the five foot ten brick wall on the north property line is it appropriate to construct a 25 foot wide curb cut again this was written prior to receiving the revised site plan and 25 foot curb cut and driveway in the front yard and is it appropriate to have parking in the front yard? No recommendations at this time and do not have a deadline for board action. Okay and one further question, I'm assuming the staff is of the opinion that the addition is historically significant to the main structure? We have not made a determination at this time. Is that a question that needs to be resolved or looked at? Yes, I think more investigation needs to be done. I can't tell the board what to do, but I think you should look at it as if it does have significance because it is 1934, and there probably have been some changes made, but we do not know what they are. Okay. All right. Thank you. Mr. Cheatham? Or whoever's making the presentation. And you'll need to state your name for the record, too, if you want to participate. My name is Ralph Whitley. I'm the homeowner. Okay, Mr. Whitley. All right. All right, Mr. Cheatham. Back up again. It's been – is it not working? the same renderings that you had up first. There we go. Okay, you need to speak into the microphone. The old presentation that was up. Yeah, Ralph gave you those, but there's, I'd like to go back to the previous pictures first, please. I think, you know, it being a 1934 edition is significant in the fact that I believe it was changed to apartments at the time due to the way that that, you know, I don't know when it was changed to apartments, but with the opening in the existing house with the exterior fire stair and the way that the staircase leads up to a separate structure on the second floor in the back when you come in the back door. so when you come in this right door you immediately come up a staircase it's a tiny hallway and then you occupy only this second floor area so it's not useful to the existing house as it is right now at all as a single family home which it's being turned into by the Whitley family. Well I was only asking the question because I'm wondering if it'd be appropriate for you just to tear off the whole thing and start over. Okay understood understood. And I'm you know I understand what you're trying to do. You're treating it as being historic and you're trying to work with it. Sure exactly. Okay. We're actually just leaving the footprint as much as possible building on the existing structure and then only adding up across the back elevation of of the house right there. I'm not the architect here, so I want to stay out of it. I'm here to answer any questions, and Ralph would like to speak on the driveway a little bit as well, I think. Any questions you guys have? You've got a wall section that's showing about ADD. Thank you. You've got a wall section that's, is that through your garage or through your house? On the garage? Oh, the wall section is at the house. It's at the addition. It's to identify the type of siding. We want to use the minimum insulation to kind of show the roof structure and to show that the heights of the floors will match with the existing structure. I think we, as far as the roofs, can I go ahead and start commenting? Sure. Or do I need to ask questions? I'm just trying to follow the rules here. As far as the height of your roof, we certainly don't want that to go above your EVE. So I can tell you're already kind of like impressed for headroom and such. Yes. Is your garage got a dwelling unit or a car lift? It's just going to have an unfinished second floor space right now. Just an empty shell space. Storage. With a staircase inside across the back wall. Okay. Have you sent it in any? Haven't we sent it in? The addition. Oh, this is not. Okay. So, right. The first step is the COA, and then we'll go to building permitting if we get approval. I'll go back to that last one. This one? The one that shows all the windows in the back. This one? uh-huh um those would be really it's on speak more into it sarah um that's that's not studio space or any no ma'am it's a living room and kitchen on the first floor and then as you can see you go through the we're going to open up the existing brick a little wider inside than it is now and place the island in the middle kitchen on the right i got and living room on the left and then upstairs it's the master suite incorporating coming through the back hallway bedroom on the left bathroom on the right and then closet in back into the existing structure Talk about having that much glass in a kind of dense commercial area, really. Well, you're the owner, I was going to say. How do you feel about that? If you mean from a privacy perspective? Yeah. Well, I think we're definitely, that's actually one of the things we talked about is that we would have to look at trying to do some sort of movable shading or something that's inside the house to accommodate that. We liked the idea of the first floor having all that glass and being able to see the brick because both me and my wife just love brick. so and in a minute I'll kind of show you why that creating some sort of view out that window is important for when I get to show you some of the photos as they are but it's kind of because just you know as John's been helping us design it we've looked at a lot of inspirational photos and really loved the way he kind incorporated the little shading offset that you can see to the left of the glass. So that's and then he had the full height glass on one side of the house. So it's kind of very creative because you don't notice it as you're just looking at it from the outside. But when you start looking at the floor plan, you realize that as you're coming across the second floor, you actually approach into the more private area of the room, which is the bathroom and then the closet, which doesn't have as much glass. So it's natural light, but yet you're doing it in the places that you don't need as much privacy. It would be such a shame if you had to keep closing, closing up shames. I wondered that myself, to be honest, for the second floor. The first floor didn't bother me, but the second, I was curious about that. I'm reminded of a building or a new renovation that was on Richmond, that it was a cool-looking building, and they promptly threw up the, you know, put up shades because of the windows facing out on Richmond Road. Part of me is bothered by the fact that you need to step in that addition a little bit. It seems to be right even with the main mass, and I don't think that's going to be... We're a foot inset, sir. I'm sorry, what? We're one foot inset. Okay, it didn't look like it were in the drawings. Okay. Now, on the right-hand side, we are, but we can adjust that. What we're doing is we're creating a shadow line. Step out on the right side of the plan right here. The existing wall and foundation are remaining. And we're creating a little shadow line for the windows with these little pop-outs right here. Now that's a mitered corner shiplap. So it's not your standard hardy plank with a lap siding. So it'll be vertical and have a tiny little eighth-inch reveal between the vertical eight-inch siding pieces. The curb cut in the driveway, I think, will be an issue moving ahead. Trying to get some extra parking in the front is usually something we don't go for. Is that – I'm not sure which version you might be looking at, to be honest with you. Well, hopefully the latest one. Well, yeah, no, it was kind of – and some of this was taken – how does this move forward, this one? Okay. So some of this was taken from stuff I'd seen done in historical neighborhoods. It was probably before the BOAR was reviewing stuff. And I was trying to find a creative way. You know, the building is obviously very landlocked in a neighborhood that most of the houses have twice the yard space as this one. It's been somewhat neglected because it's been a rental property. So there's a lot that has to be done to even make it habitable, really, for a single-family home. So to describe to you why the driveway, that pole right there, I guess is this? Yeah. So this utility pole right here. So Kentucky Utilities, you know, put that pole there, and when they did that, they basically caused the driveway to have to cant. Yeah. Right? So I'm just wanting to explain to you why we got there. So when you're coming out, step one when you're back out of my driveway is make sure you get as close to that pole as possible with your back left corner. Because as you're coming out, you can see how hard the turn has to be coming in to the neighborhood. That whole left side of the driveway is worn down to mud because that turn is impossible to make because of the telephone pole, as you can see there. And that, I'm not so certain. Well, I guess part of the, there used to be a curb there, or maybe there was, you can see where people have tried to add brick to try to remediate it. But, and this is why it happens. The way that this intersection was designed, you can turn left off of Ashland Avenue onto Richmond Road. You can turn right. But as you're coming in, it's one lane. and they have to swerve out, but there is parking right in front of my house, right? So it creates this scenario that you're trying to back out of, right? And you can see this car right here is barely hugging that yellow line to try to get past that vehicle, which is legally parked in front of my house. so our concept probably was a little abrasive to put it in the front yard but i saw it done on second street so i didn't know um but ideally all i was trying to accomplish was some way within the confines of a landlocked lot that we could get a car around a car and so the final concept was or the most recent idea i don't know where that's that drawing is but it was to maybe where that stair is where the stairs the exterior stair okay I think that's okay you know that wooden stair that's out there yeah okay so that wouldn't there it is so the thought was is maybe we can create something really nice and rounded that kind of cuts into the main house and takes advantage of that little step out that happens where the gable end is and kind of, yes, that's it. That's the only reason. It would not have to be, I kind of like the width of the driveway. I think it's small, but maybe we could just make it wider to next to the house so we can get around cars. That's, that's all I'm trying to accomplish. Cause when you're coming out, when you're coming, when you're backing out of that driveway in the morning, you see it the most when cars are in the turning lane, they're backed up to probably a little bit past that manhole. You're having to cut that out and actually most times turn right back into the street. Your front wheel will cut across the yard again because you can't come all the way out. I follow you. Yeah. Okay. That's my challenge. Yeah. And maybe there's nothing to be done, but then it does create a situation of how did this happen in the first place? So we do see cases with a poll in the worst place like yours. Oh, I'm sure. And there's got to be a strategy to do something for you, right? Right. So the main thing, so if it's widening a curb cut, then, I mean, we can talk about that once we get to an actual application. But one thing that is frowned upon is providing a spot for you to park in front of your house. So that's what I'm trying to give you a heads up on. Well, we're on the side of the house. the side of the house we get into a little more discussion not just h1 regulation the city does not allow the parking in the front yard which I had sent you the email that LFUCG which I could go to BOA possibly and get a variance on that I'm not sure if it would happen or not so you've got two steps h1 approval the OAR and variance right now my revised curb cut is the same width as the widest part at the street here's what I've got in front of me just let me know if this is a date or not okay that's okay yeah that's very the existing dashed in on your plan there yes so we would like to just straighten out the driveway from that widest point uh to eliminate what he was talking about earlier the muddy section where they have to drive in the grass anyway to get around the corner so this is the submitted site plan and then the next one is what was sent to me afterwards okay yeah that's an improvement It was just a nice cut in to the left. You're going to have to speak. Sir, you're going to speak more into the mic so we can hear you. Sorry. I think we need to focus this conversation a little bit. We're sort of rambling all over the place. So if we could actually go through the concerns being raised by the staff and Josh, if you could just address those. Okay. I think that might focus the conversation a bit. Well, I thought the driveway was in there. It is. Okay. If you're not concerned with the rest of it, just the driveway. Well, I was going to get to the driveway first. It was kind of the clearest one to talk through. All right. So with this plan, the other thing the board would look for is not paving right against your house. So we would be looking for some landscaping, and that may just be two or three feet right against your house and the driveway, or between the driveway and the house. or that's what our guidelines usually look for I should say not the board I can't speak for the whole board that's all I got for the driveway okay any thoughts about is it on working just through the different concerns starting at one is there appropriate to change the openings in the brick north wall Have you given any thought? I think that's appropriate. It might not be. That's what I'm trying to get at. I've got the north. The north is the back, right? Right. Okay. So the main problem with not changing that opening. Actually, it's the side. Yeah, this is facing Donato. So this is when we remove the wooden staircase from the outside of the house. All right. Yeah. We're actually changing the slope of the interior staircase that's on the other side of that wall. We're tearing out the whole staircase to the second floor. Right now it comes up to a landing where that door sits and then switches over to the left and goes up five more steps. We're creating a straight run up to the second floor and then creating another switch back stair up to the third floor. So that doorway would actually be in the middle of a riser for the staircase. so the doorway on the outside so that's the proposed on I believe a 3.1 or 3.2 he has it up there now okay 3.2 please that's why I just want us working through so I've got the staircase on the inside of the house dashed in there and and then the hatched area right here is where the existing doorway is and we're proposing to make the just move that opening up so we reuse the existing brick in this location above the existing door and fill in where the door is now moving that window up to a logical location at stair landing if we leave it where it is now as you can see it'll be it'll have structure behind it of the staircase that is in the existing house right there so this is the line of the addition right here this is the addition this is the existing house all right it might be the other issue on this side is the doorway right here is an existing window that stops at 18 inches above the floor right now and we're proposing keeping the existing head height and width of that window opening but opening it up so it can become an accessible entrance into the house right there and then along the backside you're putting in these large metal windows yes you know we are flexible there if you say if you say that's too much fenestration were you know agreeable to reduce that a bit. Well that's why I was raising the issue if the addition is truly not contributing significantly to the overall structure that may give you a little bit more flexibility as to what we can do. On the other hand If it is historic, then that may be too much of a window. Because you're basically eliminating the entire... And it is... Excuse me. East wall. Go ahead. It is the board that determines... I know. But we have to have some basis for making that finding. I would say I've spent a lot of time... I like the look. it's just i'm trying to work my way through it i understand i've been under that house a lot fixing a lot of things well i imagine crawled in that crawl space um i mean if you look at it and you're in it you'll see that it wasn't it was built as at least when they filled it in or renovated it for apartments it was built as inexpensive as can possibly be built the center beam in it is is held up by a, what am I trying to say, a tree stump. There's a tree stump between the ground and the beam. It's not, a lot of the boards have been hacked apart by plumbing that's been put in to turn into apartments. It's not been, for whatever it's worth, it doesn't appear like it was built to be a substantial lasting structure to the house. Okay. Anything else? Sarah? I was just curious when I was looking at the project. Do you have any problem with the smell, I guess, of the Donato's and the bakery um i have two basset hounds they love it i'm not sure we're gonna have to leave early um so yeah the uh the so and to be honest with you there was a lot of stuff that was done on the commercial side when denials and mcgay's was built and i don't know how it got past lfcg but there's code violations all over the place yeah there's exhaust the building first also built on our property line both of them are which i think under current code would be a violation the exhaust for donato's and for mcgee's is within two feet of the wall edge which is required to be 10 feet from a property line and so are the rooftop units so it's got some challenges that occasionally when the wind blows the right direction my front yard smells like pizza which is not the end of the world but it does it does bother a lot of tenants it does bother I've heard people when we've talked about you know friends where do you guys live at you know I'm like well we live next to D'Arles and McGee's and I've heard some people say oh that must be great you must go get pizza another person say gosh how can you stand that you know but the whole house has those kind of challenges it's surrounded by commercial property and it needs a major investment to save it and not everybody's going to want to live there so part of the reason why some of these things have been asked for is to try to create curb appeal if you look at why we wanted to build a two-story garage to that point it's to hide the hvac equipment on the roof behind donatos because from the line of sight you can't see it um if you could can you bring up the other okay the other photos yeah i wanted to at least while you guys are here i want to have an opportunity to explain to you where all this stuff came from it should take very much he'd like you to pull up the other set of pictures that he gave you um so let's see let's be quick so that there's a lot of bushes and overgrowth and weeds that are here right now but i've kind of let some of the ones that are along the fence line grow up because that hvac unit that you're seeing right there that's from the front of the house and all the equipment you can see so ideally i've already looked at the elevations the garage would hide it so that that's part of it is creating curb appeals for the neighborhood that's part of the reason for the brick fence as well because you'll notice that at least this fence is falling down. How tall is that fence? It's six feet. Okay. And so I was wanting to do something nice for an entrance to the neighborhood that was brick. That was where it was coming from. Right. So this is the back wall Donatos. That shows you exactly what I was talking about about the code. I don't want. Yeah. Yeah. You never smell Donato's, but what is interesting about the property is Donato's closes down at 1.30 or so. McGee's opens up at 2.30. So these are other things that, in the morning, these are other things that, as you're talking with people about, you know, the property, it's got its pros in that you can walk anywhere, which me and my wife love to do, but it's got some cons that make people say, why would you ever live there? So all All that ties into why I believe you've got to be able to create a nice courtyard environment and it's got to have some serious perfection in the way the outside looks so that you can offset some of the cons that are tied with it. Here is the back lot looking towards McGee's. So part of the reason I want to build a brick fence here, for two weeks this past summer we've had someone that was living behind this right here. They were friendly and didn't hurt anybody, but I do have two daughters. So I want to try to kind of create a little separation here. We're pretty friendly with the people in McGee, so I was maybe hoping to build perhaps an iron gate. As weird as it is, even though we're so close, we've actually become neighbors. We know the owners and we talk frequently and stuff. But this is the view out the front of the house, which also creates some of the challenges I'm talking about when you're thinking about investing in this property and trying to save the front part of it. This is the view of, you know, the shut down flower shop. And it doesn't seem to be, you know, very well taken care of. So this is the other front view. So other challenges that you see the property and then my left side of course is rental property so and i was i was mentioning a lot of small so it's basically like what i'm trying to create is yeah it's got all these cons but once you're on the property it's essentially perfect so and then there's the pro being able to walk everywhere and hopefully people when they see it would say this looks like a a good urban environment project and i can understand how one project can start you know build momentum towards other stuff years down the road or what have you i'll point out that normally we restrict the height of a fence to six foot and you're proposing i think a seven foot brick fence right uh we're happy to put six foot in the back. That's good. The brick may be problematic. Probably not. What we don't want to have or what we try to avoid is barriers. And brick is a very impermanable type material. And the fence is a little lighter. A wooden fence might be. But again, we have approved brick walls before so long as they're the appropriate height. Along with the barbed wire on top course right and that's where the brick is your mic on I can barely hear you there we go yeah okay Okay. Okay, good. All right. I would look at this one differently. I think I wouldn't have a problem with it. All right. Sarah, do you have anything? I think it's just a really interesting project because there are not many like It makes you wonder when they put the road in and built the houses, what was going on on Main Street at the time. but I think it's a really interesting project and it's one of those that it's real difficult just to go by all of the normal rules that we deal with here. This may be an issue where we're going to have to find some creative variances for you because it is a different kind of situation. I'm assuming you're zoned R3. What are you zoned? R2. R2? Okay. Interesting. Yes, R2. It's zoned R2. Well, we're allowed to live in it and have a business as long as we live in it. Okay, R2 then. A business as well? Then you're probably allowed to have a business in it if you live in it. Okay. In one of the apartments. Anything else? I'll quickly go down the list if you want. Just my, these are brief. Yeah, go through the list. Number two, if the change in opening found appropriate, is it appropriate to install metal windows in the historic mass of the structure? I don't have an answer for that one. Is it appropriate, number three, is it appropriate to construct the garage? It does seem really tall. What we usually look for is the other accessory buildings on your block, and the scale and the rhythm, the form of those. I don't know what those look like right now. I didn't look that up before today. But that's something you should keep in mind. Number four, is the fenestration appropriate for the garage? I don't have a problem with it. Five, is it appropriate to enlarge the rear addition? I do find that appropriate. Number six, is it appropriate to change the openings and renovate the rear addition? Yes, I think it is. Number seven, will the changes to the existing addition eradicate too much historic fabric? I don't believe so. Eight, is it appropriate to construct the rear deck? I don't have an answer for that for you right now. I just skipped over it. 9, is it appropriate to construct the 7 foot high brick wall around the backyard? I think given your neighbors being McGee's and I guess Donato's is on the side yard, I find that appropriate. I guess you have a 5 foot 10 brick wall on Donato's, is that right? Yeah. Okay. 11, is it appropriate to construct a 25 foot wide? I spoke to 11 and 12 earlier, so those are my thoughts. And, of course, as to number 12, the parking front yard probably violates city ordinance. Correct. I think we've already moved past that. Although Hanover's managed to finesse that a little bit. There's some front driveways. I don't know how they got them, but they're there. Okay. Anything else? I would only like to answer a couple of questions that you had about the garages. on Hanover and Ashland we actually have more larger one and a half story garages on that street so there's actually a bit of presence for that I think her staff's concerns about the window fenestration is looking at the fenestration that would actually have much more of a reference to the historic mass with having more sort of a better opening to a solid ratio in the back of glass i don't know if you and barry have talked about that a little bit but i think um like we talked about um the elevation on the south side you know um has much more of a compatibility that that we think meets the guidelines and maybe think about that for the back as well Amelia, I was just curious, do those guidelines still kick into effect if the finding is that the back half is not? Yes. Okay. The whole thing. But it actually, yeah. They would have, yeah. Well, the guidance. If it's not significant, then we would look at it as a new addition, which also requires that opening ratios be compatible with the historic structure. But I think what we just have to think about. Well, but we do look at the opening to solid ratio to actually make sure that what we want to make sure is that we're not looking at too much commercial look and reducing that a little bit and putting a bit more residential feel into it. Is that something we can work with? Of course. Because, sorry, the engineer in me hears ratio, and I think you probably can get the same ratio with making the glass a little smaller, but then on this wall, but that may not be what you want. You may want some symmetry. Not so much that. I think maybe more. Necessarily it's the placement, which adds up to the ratio. Okay. So that's how we'll put the historic. But something we could work out or maybe potentially meet together, yeah. Okay, anything else? If not, I think we will bring this discussion to an end. Thank you all very much. Thank you. Interesting project. We'll see you in a couple weeks. Okay, very good.