# Environmental Quality and Public Works Committee - September 25, 2019 > Auto-transcribed civic record · Committee · September 25, 2019 - **Permalink**: https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/meeting/4841 - **Source video**: https://lfucg.granicus.com/player/clip/4841?view_id=14&redirect=true - **Date**: 2019-09-25 - **Body**: Committee - **Last revised**: February 5, 2026 - **Length**: 11,636 words > ⚠️ **Auto-generated content.** Audio from the official Granicus video was auto-transcribed by OpenAI Whisper-1, with speaker labels folded in from Granicus closed-captioning. Structured facts were extracted with GPT-4o; the narrative summary was written by Anthropic Claude Sonnet. Speaker labels and verbatim wording may contain errors. See [methodology](https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/about/methodology) or [report a correction](mailto:editor@lexingtonky.news). --- ## Meeting Overview The Environmental Quality and Public Works Committee met on September 25, 2019, with Fred Brown presiding as the committee chair. The committee addressed two informational agenda items during the session, focusing on municipal services and emerging technology infrastructure. The meeting covered the 2019 Leaf Collection Plan and discussed 5G Wireless Small Cells, both presented as informational items to keep committee members updated on relevant departmental activities and policy considerations. Committee members received presentations on these topics to better understand operational plans and technological developments affecting the community. The committee took one formal vote during the meeting, though no public comments were heard during the session. Both agenda items were handled as informational presentations rather than requiring formal action, allowing committee members to gather information and ask questions about the city's leaf collection operations for the upcoming season and the implications of 5G wireless infrastructure deployment. ## Attendance **Present:** • Fred Brown • Kay • McKern • Jake Gibbs • Bledsoe • Reynolds • Maloney • Evans • Mosatti **Absent:** • Mr. Farmer **Late:** • None Nine committee members were present for the meeting, with one member absent. ## Votes and Decisions The committee conducted one vote during this meeting. **Approval of August 20, 2019 Committee Summary** [timestamp: 00:30] - Motion by: Kay - Seconded by: McKern - Vote type: Voice vote - Outcome: Passed The committee approved the summary from their previous meeting held on August 20, 2019, through a voice vote with no opposition recorded. ## Budget and Financial Actions The committee reviewed one significant financial item during this meeting. **Leaf Collection Program Contract** The committee discussed a $920,000 contract with Republic Services for the leaf collection program. This contract represents a substantial municipal expenditure for seasonal waste management services that will provide leaf collection services to residents throughout the community. *Note: Specific resolution numbers and transcript timestamps were not available in the provided meeting materials for this financial item.* ## Contested Items The Committee meeting featured one primary area of contention during discussions of municipal services. **Leaf Collection Program** A heated discussion emerged regarding the city's leaf collection program, with council members raising concerns about both its cost-effectiveness and operational impact. The debate centered on multiple aspects of the program's implementation and value to residents. Council members questioned the program's effect on the city's sewer systems, suggesting that current leaf collection practices may be contributing to infrastructure problems. Additionally, concerns were raised about the fairness of service distribution, with some members arguing that the program may not be equitably serving all neighborhoods and residents throughout the city. The discussion highlighted disagreements over the program's overall effectiveness relative to its cost, with participants debating whether the current approach represents the best use of municipal resources. The nature of the debate suggests significant differences of opinion among council members regarding how the leaf collection program should be structured, funded, or potentially modified. *Note: Specific timestamp information was not available for this agenda item.* The outcome of this discussion was not specified in the available meeting materials, indicating the matter may require further deliberation or could be revisited in future committee sessions. ## 2019 Leaf Collection Plan [timestamp: 05:00] Rob Allen presented the annual summary of the proposed leaf collection efforts for 2019. The leaf collection program is scheduled to begin on November 4th and will involve coordinated efforts between multiple service providers. The collection plan includes two primary components: • **Vacuum leaf collection** to be conducted by the Streets and Roads department • **Additional collection services** provided by Republic Services specifically in Zone C Allen's presentation provided an overview of the operational framework for the upcoming leaf collection season, outlining how the city will manage the annual removal of fallen leaves from residential areas. The dual-service approach combines municipal resources through the Streets and Roads department with contracted services from Republic Services to ensure comprehensive coverage across the city. The presentation was informational in nature, providing committee members with details about the timing and logistics of the leaf collection program. No specific concerns were raised during the discussion, and no action items or decisions were required from the committee regarding the proposed plan. The November 4th start date aligns with typical seasonal timing for leaf collection programs, allowing the city to begin operations as trees enter their peak leaf-dropping period in early fall. ## 5G Wireless Small Cells [timestamp: 120:00] CIO Valencinti provided an informational presentation on the deployment of 5G wireless technology and small cell infrastructure within the city. The discussion focused on the city's regulatory role in managing telecommunications infrastructure in public right-of-way areas. Valencinti explained the technical aspects of 5G small cell deployment, emphasizing how these smaller cellular installations differ from traditional cell towers. The presentation covered the city's responsibilities in overseeing where and how telecommunications companies can install this equipment in public spaces. A significant portion of the discussion centered on aesthetic considerations for small cell installations. Valencinti addressed how the city balances the need for improved wireless coverage and faster data speeds with maintaining the visual character of neighborhoods and commercial areas. The presentation outlined the review process for small cell applications and the design standards that telecommunications providers must meet. The CIO discussed the city's role in managing public right-of-way access for these installations, including permitting processes and coordination with utility companies and other infrastructure providers. The presentation covered how small cells integrate with existing utility poles, streetlights, and other public infrastructure. This was an informational presentation with no formal action required from the committee. The discussion provided committee members with background knowledge on 5G technology deployment and the city's regulatory framework for managing telecommunications infrastructure in public spaces. --- ## Decisions - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Approval of the August 20, 2019, committee summary --- ## Full transcript Thank you. I think we have a quorum now. I'd like to call the Environmental Quality and Public Works Committee to order. I'm Fred Brown, the vice chair. Mr. Farmer is out of town and will not be here today. So I will be up here trying to introduce the programs. First thing on our agenda is the approval of the August 20, 2019, committee summary. I need a motion to approve that. So moved. We have a motion by the vice mayor, Kay. Who seconded that? Council Member McKern. What we had as far as the minutes of the August 20, just to refresh, they were, we had Charlie Martin, director of water quality, reviewed the list of various division of water quality projects around Lexington. Greg Lubick, stormwater section manager in the Department of Environmental Quality and Public Works, providing an update on the stormwater priority list. And Chris Smith, government affairs manager for Metronet, providing an update on the fiber optic installations through Lexington. No action was taken on any of those items at our last meeting, and they've gone forward to council. So with that, we will start out with our, on the agenda, with the 2019 leaf collection plan. And I have Mr. Rob Allen, director. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity to present the annual summary of our proposed leaf collection efforts, which will be kicking off this year, Monday, November 4th. Streets and Roads, once again, will perform vacuum leaf collection along with a private contractor for private, or I'm sorry, for residential homes that receive city garbage collection. Republic Services, this will be the third year they've assisted us, and they will operate in about 25 percent of the urban service area, what we call Zone C, and that will be on the map that we'll display here in a minute. The Division of Water Quality assists us by providing inspectors to go along with these crews, so there is a liaison both for the contractor and the public to interact in the field. This year, our big improvement, the contractor has also adopted our set-out schedule of Sunday evening or Wednesday evening so we're consistent. That was a big hit last year where folks didn't have to set out their leaves on Sunday night and we didn't get there until Saturday, and that caused a lot of problem with killing grass and blowing around, so everybody's on board, and hopefully that will really help us to prevent delays and collected leaves from blowing back out. Also, last year we nailed down if we get behind as we had in years past, and we hope not to, we do have a system in place where we can pay them additional money and they can assist us so we stay on schedule. As I said, who receives leaf collection? Approximately 90,000 households. We do not service duplexes or apartment complexes that have dumpster service. This is for cart service only, and it's residential. It's not commercial. Guidelines for it, leaves should be raked between the sidewalk and the curb, not into the street, which presents a hazard. They should be, the pile should be free of limbs, rocks, dead critters, anything that could clog up the equipment or hurt an employee. Folks also have several other ways that they can dispose of their leaves. They can use their gray waste container. They can mulch the leaves. You can see their composting. They can take them out. If you're a Fayette County citizen, you can take them out to the Haley Pike landfill, and then, of course, everyone has the option of using a private collection service. The schedule, we begin Monday, November 4th. We'll go right to left with the prevailing weather, and we'll see those zones here in a little bit. And our target completion date is Friday, December 20th, and we can work until the 27th. And there's a, shows the start dates, A1, A2. And those are the leaf collection zones. The pink zone is the Republic Services area, and the green zone is the zone that LFUCG will start in, and that's on November 4th. You can see this is just a breakdown of how many households receive trash collection in each zone. The target was 2,500 households, give or take, and that allows us to service a quadrant in one to three days, as I mentioned, so folks don't have loose leaves piled in the utility strip waiting on us. Start time, this is always a point of debate. Four years ago, we had snow on November 12th, which is a direct conflict with streets and roads. Snow removal is our primary function, and so we had to kind of shut the behemoth down for a couple days. It wasn't a big snow, but it's still an issue, so it's always a balancing act. We work with administration to look at possible start dates, and also we're dealing with two to three major holidays with Thanksgiving and Christmas. Employee leave time factors in and things like that, basically for leaves to drop. And we were talking about it earlier. You'll notice a lot of leaf drop this year compared to years past, and it's because we're in a drought, and it's a conservation mechanism for trees, and we don't have much relief in sight. So we're going to continue to see a good amount of leaves coming down ahead of schedule this year, especially as we get cooler temperatures in the evening. So it's kind of a throw the dart at the board and make our best scientific guess as to when we start. But traditionally, since we're only doing one pass, starting in the beginning of November is the best option. Also, I want to emphasize that with one pass, as council decreed several years ago when streets and roads took over, that this is not the primary means of leaf disposal. The gray yard waste container, which comes weekly and will pick up one to 200 bags, is supposed to be the primary means of disposal. As I mentioned, leaf collection, there will be one pass for each zone. Street sweeping is suspended for this time except for the nightly downtown and the university campus area monthly sweeping. Those are things that the administration decided that we need to continue with, so we kind of slow leaf collection down. But every night, downtown core still gets swept, and then we do use four street sweepers to follow the various crews, so we put a finishing touch on what we collect. We adopted, three years ago, extended hours of collection. We work 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. That is worked out. Also on Saturdays, so roughly 58 hours of collection a week. What this does is allow us to minimize the mobilization, the setup and the takedown, and work longer in the day, get more done. We're always watching the weather as to when it's going to start snowing and when it gets colder. It's in our interest to get this complete as quickly as possible. However, and I did not mention earlier, this year in the calendar, we have built in some extra days. We kind of bogged down in some of the older neighborhoods that have denser tree canopies, so it's a little less aggressive schedule this year. I think it will work out for folks where they're not waiting, you know, one or two days longer for us. As I mentioned, we suspend collection for snow or any kind of weather emergency. If we happen to get a storm and a lot of debris and we have to respond to clearing rights away or roadways, leaf collection will be suspended. We do work in all weather, even rain, even frost, even U.K. basketball. So it's a very interesting logistic when you have a home game where you're trying to dump eight garbage trucks full of leaves by running them through downtown and having to reroute and avoid the area. Our communication plan, folks in the commissioner's office help us with this quite a bit and PIO. We have a website, which is really popular. 311 does a tremendous amount of work for us in putting out information that is correct, I might add, to the citizens that really helps us, plus our folks in environmental services that work with us put out information on Facebook and next door. There is a postcard sent to each household to remind them about leaf collection. We do news releases. We do LexTV and also print and radio if requested. The interactive map, and we'll see an example of that, a citizen can type in their address and it will give them their collection start date and up-to-date schedules. If for some unforeseen reason we get bogged down and we're behind, we would inform folks through all those media outlets plus the map. And then also, as I mentioned, the schedule for leaf put out the Sunday night before or the Wednesday night before. And this is an example of the map. The pink areas are collection areas, as you can see. That's 90,000 households receiving LFUCG waste services. And with that, I'll take any questions. Okay, I have a list of questions. Councilmember Jake Gibbs. Thank you, Chair. Thanks, Rob. I've got a bunch of questions, actually. I didn't see a price tag. I saw last year it was $920,000. Is it about the same? Yes, that sounds correct. Right around there. Also, does that include the disposal fee? Like what's the cost per ton to get rid of these, and do they go to Red River mulching? They go to Red River. I don't have those figures. And actually, Aldona and I were talking before the meeting that we're going to look at drilling down and getting more accurate figures. The mayor has already requested those. Red River hauls them to the Red River facility for LFUCG, and it's combined with the yard waste. Okay. Is that included in the $920,000, or is that? That comes out of waste budget. That's out of the waste budget? Yes, it's in the hauling. Right, and that's about 50 bucks a ton. Was that it? Something like that? I don't know the tonnage in years past. We had budgeted $40,000, and it ended up being $20,000 to $24,000. And then once we started that facility behind the transfer station, we turned it back over to waste. Okay. I agree with the administration. I'd like to see a breakdown of the budget when you guys get it. Also, the history of the program. I know you're relatively new in your position. You've been around for a while. When did we start this leaf collection? Do you have a rough idea? Oh, golly. Let me follow up with that. And the main reason for it was for the sewage problem, you know, the stuff getting in the sewers. Is that correct? It was a water quality issue. That's what I thought. And parks handled it before that. It was property management. So you can go back, gosh, at least to 2001 when property management was disbanded. It got handed over to parks. for several years, and they gleefully handed it over to Streets and Roads in, I believe, 2008. I bet. Do you know, I was hoping Charlie was going to be here, because I wonder if there's been any type of evaluation of how effective this is keeping it out of the sewers. As far as I know, you know, there's been no analysis other than you could look at tons of leaves and say this was diverted. Yeah. But just thinking out loud, it seems like we're spending almost a million dollars on this, and we don't. Again, just thinking, we're not going to make any changes this year, but I wonder if we get people to compost these things in the backyard, it would save us a fortune. But that's just thinking out loud. Thank you very much, Rob. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Next, I have Council Member Bledsoe. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Mr. Allen, for your presentation. I actually have two large sycamores behind my house, and I did nine bags about two weeks ago, because all the leaves were already gone. And I thought for sure they were dying, and my friend tells me they're not. They just, they're dropping earlier, I guess. So the complaint that I get routinely, because as you can see, all of A is in my district, again, lovingly, again, that it's too early, that we come too early. And so would you just remind the theory behind the ABC and why you did that? Well, our prevailing weather comes from right to left. And also, when you look at the D zones, there's a tremendous amount of Bradford pears, which tend to hold their leaves later into the season. The 10th district tends to have more maples than oaks, which drop a little bit earlier. Also, you know, the weather has a lot to do with it. And, you know, we have to start somewhere. We started, for example, in Heartland before and ran into trouble with the oaks for some reason that year, held onto their leaves. We made a pass through there and spent days, and it looked like we hadn't done anything, you know, a week later. So it's, with one pass, it's really hit or miss. And, you know, we, yeah. But the reason we don't rotate, if I remember several years ago, we had the conversation, and your thinking was, we're not rotating them because of the right to left prevailing weather, but also because of the tree species in those areas. We're trying to be more theoretical and strategic about why we pick up when. So I just wanted to be reminded of that for my 10th district people who live out there who ask these questions. Yeah. Andover at one point had 2,000 Bradford pears. And then, you know, that's a huge mass of leaves that in some years, if we have a mild winter, don't drop until the second week of December. And just logistically, it would not make sense for us to go left to right. And as I've mentioned several times, the prevailing weather. And, you know, this year we're in a drought situation. And I'm sure, like you said, you've done nine bags. Folks are going to complain and say we're not coming soon enough. I know. I honestly had that thought. I thought this will be the year that everyone says, why aren't we doing this in October? Right. And that's when I get to emphasize that this is a complementary collection to the yard waste cart, which, you know, is available to folks each week, even if, you know, we come too early. They still have the yard waste bags and the cart available to dispose of. And it's pretty easy. It is easy. I do it. And it's the kids wanting to jump in it. And I was like, no, they're all gross leaves. They're not fun leaves to jump in. Anyway, I digress. My second question is or just a comment. We worked really hard to get CDL licenses and drivers through the academy. And last year we hired some. So it's the five you have added. Is that a total number of public works skills academy or did we have some in addition to that from last year too? We put six folks through the skills academy. And all six of them are still working for the urban county government. Okay. A couple of them have transitioned into civil service jobs. Others are still working as apprentices. We have one within streets and roads that is going to work as a driver this year. And we're also looking at adding other drivers through the same system. We've partnered with Community Action Council on some preliminary training. And we also look at these folks when they get their CDL to we have a real shortage of drivers for snow removal. And the administration has been working with us all summer on this. So hopefully we'll have that squared. Good. I was just wanting to make sure. I thought this program was such a great idea to piggyback on what we're already doing. We had some issues with Blue Grass Ad. They were the initial funding source. We think that we have things straightened out with them. It was too late to do a class using their resources this year, but we've looked at alternatives. And we're pretty comfortable that we'll get some more folks in. It was a huge success. I mean, we had six people that were underemployed or unemployed that are still working full time for us. Everything we invested in them really feels like it was worthwhile. I think it's exceptionally worthwhile. And I think it's a program that I would like to see us grow. As I mentioned last, you know, we started the idea. I'm a big proponent of it and want to see us continue to do it. And you've got my support to move it forward. So thank you. Thank you, Chair. Next we have Council Member Reynolds. Thank you, Chair, for recognizing me since I'm not on this committee. Thank you, Mr. Allen, for coming. I like your tie. It's very fitting. I wear this for Mr. Farmer. Well, I, for one, like this program. I live in a neighborhood with a lot of old trees, and my front yard gets full and full of leaves. And I've used it the past few years. Last year we didn't have an issue. There was a starting date of when we were supposed to come by. And everybody on my street had the leaves. And it was soon after that that they were picked up. Two years ago, everybody put out their leaves. And it was, I mean, it's a lot of leaves. And we were told that it was going to be a certain date was the start time. And then I kept checking the map, and I kept checking, checking, checking. And it was never updated. And it was, I think, two months. We ended up bagging our leaves because we didn't want them sitting out there any longer. But a lot of my neighbors left them for that long. And they got really gross and all of that. So has it been updated so that how do we know if they're going to actually come around that date or not? We have been we recognize that problem, you know, in years past that we said, hey, put them out Sunday night. And we didn't get there until Saturday or even a week after. We have been pretty good the last two years on our side, especially last year with updating the map, you know, when we're going to start. And if we thought that we were even going to be two days late, we were notifying both the council office and our media people to let folks know, you know, hey, we're going to push it from Sunday put out to Thursday put out. And that's when we went to the Sunday, Wednesday put out, you know, dividing it in two. So you had a smaller window of time for leaves to be out there. And we really, really try to hit those schedules, at least start those zones on time. Sometimes it takes us a little while longer to finish the zones, but we're trying to provide real-time updates. And I think we've made a lot of progress towards that. And as I said, this year the contractor has adopted that same put out schedule. And the 11th district is actually in the contractor area. And that was, you know, it's been a learning curve for all of us. This will be, I believe, the sixth year that Streets and Roads has done it. And each year we learn something new, and each year we strive for improvement. So if my neighbors check the interactive map and you thought it would go out that Sunday night and it doesn't go out until another time, it should say when. Right. Yeah, the map would be updated. We would actually contact your office and also let PIO know, hey, there's a delay in these zones. Can we get the word out either through Nextdoor, Facebook, Twitter? Just really trying to inconvenience citizens as least as possible. And, you know, communication is what has really helped us. And I can't emphasize enough. I'll go back to 311. Those operators are a tremendous asset. And, you know, they're not passing the buck. They're able to answer citizen requests and get them right to the interactive map. And it's a big help. That's actually one slide that I must have left out or after the question slide. Yeah. These are the divisions that actually partner with us. I mean, we talk about budget, but we also have environmental services, the commissioner's office, fleet services, GIS, Lexical, parks. I mean, parks has to loan us trucks. PIO, waste management and water quality. So, I mean, you know, it takes a village, I guess, to collect a leaf. But it is a big undertaking. And those are probably what we would call indirect costs when you look at how much time, for example, GIS spends on creating unique maps for us and doing the interactive map. And yearly updates. As, you know, we add streets each year, the actual count of who gets serviced by us goes up. It's not a tremendous amount, but it could be, you know, 1,500 households in a year. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Thank you, Chair. We have Council Member Maloney next. Thank you, Chair. I just want to give a little history about this yard waste. It probably went back all the way when the merged government. So when they merged the city together for 25 years, all that money came out of the general fund. Anything that was in the city area were the only ones that got leaf pickup. Anything outside the city area back then did not get leaf pickup. The problem was we had, back in the 90s, I think Council Member Mazzotti was here, we had to deal with general funds. We didn't have any money, and we kept taking all the money out to pay for the leaf pickup. So we decided creatively to use it for solid waste. And what happened is it opened up a little bit of a hornet's nest, because there's a lot of people in the urban service in that area don't get city pickup. They end up not getting the streets cleaned up. And we got hit on that. We still get hit on that. And then later we come back with ain't it supposed to be good for sewer. I don't think that's the first time. I mean, I've heard it does keep some out, but I don't know if it's true or not. But I kind of agree with you on some of the ideas. Maybe we ought to look into other options. I don't know if it's really paying for itself or not. I've always asked that question over the years, because those people who end up not getting the service, were adapted to pick the leaves up themselves and now able to do it. And they have just as big a yard and trees as those who have city pickup. So I know I'm opening up a hornet's nest here, but I'm looking at how to be conservative with our money, to be fair and equity across the city. Now, if Charlie Martin comes down here and says it does help sewer, keeps the sewer problem and keeps it in compliance, I would like to hear that myself. My question is, but that's my biggest concern. Going back to Council Member Amanda Blesso's comment about the CDL license, I think it's a great program. I know the community action is now doing that. I've got two or three people I know that I personally got them on it because we couldn't get them back on there, but we were able to get into there, so they are going through community action. I hope you get back on that list. But I just want to give you the history, and I think Council Member Mazzotti will verify a lot of this, because we've stepped back in the 90s, and I think Council Member Farmer, he pushed forward, because he had a lot of big trees in the 5th District. The majority of the 5th District isn't on the city pickup. But there are some that are still not on city pickup. You go out to Council Member Mazzotti's district, there's a lot of people not on city pickup. There's a lot of people in certain areas that don't have city pickup. So it is kind of, but until Charlie Martin, and if Charlie Martin comes in here and says that it does keep sewer, then we need to go back and look at picking up everybody's leave, because if you're going to start picking isolate in certain areas, I would be setting up my hornet's nest again, because to me we have to look at doing everybody in the urban county government, because they're all paying into that sewer fee, and if it is causing problems. So that's the $64,000. Where is it really helping that? And if it's not, then it goes back to my question, are we really doing the right thing staying in this business? So those are the two questions. Until Charlie Martin comes in and tells us it's working, then we need to open up and look at doing the whole city. That's just me. Councilman Mazzotti, in your area, whether people are not getting pickup? Because if it is getting in the sewer and it's helping, then we should use the same argument that we can use money to pay for that from out of Charlie Martin and that area. So thank you for what you do. You do a tremendous job, and I commend you. I've gone through this for many years, and I commend you for what you have done. You have changed that program around drastically. And I'm not here to take it away from you. I'm just trying to see what is the right way we do this in the future. Right. You know, we touched briefly on CDL drivers. Expanding the program would be really hard, both in terms of drivers and, you know, Fayette County's unemployment rate is so low, it's really hard to hire temporary workers. I mean, you know, and get it staffed. So you would almost have to look at going more towards mechanization. Just to follow up, we have one of the largest ginkgo trees in Kentucky. And I think we may be in the top three in Kentucky. And my wife, she doesn't wait on the truck to come. Because when those leave, she just gets out there. We get the bags. We use the Herbie's. We do what we're supposed to do. And I just want you to know there are people who do wait on you, go on and do it, because they're doing what's right to keep them out of the sewer problem. But just to let everybody know, there used to be other people who did it. They adapted not to do it. So it can be done. Thank you. Next is Council Member Evans. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Rob, for this presentation. I guess I'll just have a couple of statements as well. I think this is probably just really ripe for, is it the Thinklex, Aldona? Okay. Because this is something, as Council Members have already mentioned, that it's not something that I think any of us want to take away. But it is certainly something that, you know, it's almost a million dollars, as Council Member Gibbs pointed out, that is supplemental. But perhaps people don't think of it as supplemental anymore. I am, or I guess I would just encourage you to, and your employees, to really kind of think out as they're going out this season to really just think outside the box. You know, what are the ideas that we could do to do this differently and more efficiently? Because this is something that I just sense that we could be creative somehow. I don't know what it is. As Council Member Gibbs said, maybe there's some composting, you know, idea that we could provide for the city or something. You know, if they're looking at landscaping, you know, just ideas that they have. I mean, I'd just be really curious to see what their thoughts are. So I would just ask you to really encourage them as they're out there this season to really just think outside the box and see what their ideas are. Because this is something that, again, I know the city really, or residents really want, but it is a supplemental thing and we've come to expect it. But, you know, we don't know how efficient it is. So that's my thought on that. But I am curious, or I will perhaps give my two cents about, you know, the timing of it. I live in Zone D, so, you know, I can assure you, Council Member Bloodstow, that, yeah, we still have leaves in December. So, yeah, I know there's no good way to do it. So I'm sorry. But just to kind of help you out with that. But, yeah, I just don't think there is any good way to do that one and time it because that's the complaint I get that Zone D, you're still coming too early. And there's still leaves on the trees. I'm like, well, it's January now. They're just not falling off. So I think, let's see. Oh, yeah, I'm just curious. Are there, I mean, things that I guess the employees have changed? I mean, have there been just small things that? A good example, when we inherited it from Parks and folks ask us, they say, oh, you used to put out no parking signs. A tremendous inconvenience for the public. And our folks, our mechanics came and said, hey, there's a new blower that's twice as powerful. And we think if we invest in some of these, we can cut out worrying about having people move their cars for collection. And we've used them for the last two years. And also because we have those blowers now, we also use them when we clean up after parades or NCAA. So it has been beneficial. But, yeah, that's a direct example of feedback from frontline employees. And I can't say enough about our staff. They're constantly coming with things like, hey, there's a new safer gas can. And plus it will keep debris out of the small engines. We worked with risk management a couple years ago. And you'll notice our folks are wearing earmuffs versus earplugs. And that's a safety thing that actually came from risk management. But we came up with it so the driver who's in charge of the crew can actually look in the mirrors and make sure that all the temporary workers and other staff are wearing proper safety gear. I mean, it was just a, you know, a no-brainer. I, as a supervisor, can drive on the work site and go, okay, one, two, three, vests, everybody's got, you know, earmuffs on. So a lot of those feedback items, we're hoping through the Rethink Lex platform, there are multiple ways for employees to provide feedback. And the program is actually designed to be from the ground up. They can send anonymously if they're worried about it. They can send it directly. We discussed it as a division on Monday. And, you know, one of the things I told them is if you do send it anonymously, you won't get feedback. You know, that's the only drawback. If you want feedback and say, hey, I've got a great idea, please discuss this with me, just leave your name. But there are three ways to email, and you can talk to people directly and things like that. So we're excited about it. It's something that we really, I've been at the government almost 18 years, and I don't know that we have comprehensively ever looked at what we do and how we provide it. So, you know, certainly any opportunity for improvement in leaf collection is maybe that's a digestible chunk that could serve as a template for other programs within the government. I'm looking forward to hearing what else they can provide. But, yeah, it's a service, like I said, that we all appreciate and we all try to use. And I just want to make sure we can do it more efficiently, if possible. So thank you, Chair. Next is Council Member Mosatti. Thank you, Chair. Thanks, Rob, for your help. And I know this is a big task for your division, and you all have been so very responsive over the years. So I'm assuming, unless I miss this, that all the leaves that are picked up go over to Haley Pike and they're mulched. Is that correct? Yes, the leaves we pick up are transported to the Red River composting facility, and they are mulched and recycled. And so those who do not receive the yard waste pickup can do the same thing? Those people who don't get city trash services, they have the same ability to do that, bring their stuff over and get it composted? Do we work with them? No. No. Okay. They can take them out to Haley Pike. I do not know that they can take them to the Red River facility. And what's Haley do with it? Do you know? Compost it or? If they're taking them to Haley Pike, they are taking them to the compost facility because they're closed. So, yeah, that might be outdated information. Maybe you can find out and just let me know because it's important that, you know, if they're going to take the time to bring them out to the place, they need to know they're going to be used for compost or something, not just thrown in the landfill. Yeah. And does Republic or any of the other private haulers, do they, what do they do with the leaves? They bring them to our facility. That's part of the contract is that we want them to recycle them. They're not taking them to their landfill or anything. They're using our facility to dump it. Yeah. That's good to know. And I know Council Member Maloney brought it up. You know, there's been the rub about that for a long time, about, you know, private versus city pickup and I have leaves, too, and if it's the stormwater. And, you know, I know we've been trying to work this out for a long period of time. I don't know if maybe you all could come up with something or if you have some information or maybe things that we need to try to help you with on that because we get calls every year. I know I do. You know, big, you know, where we live, big lots and they all have private garbage and they have a bunch of trees and they say, my leaves go in the stormwater drains as well. I don't know if we set up something to allow non-LFUCG served folks to drop off leaves or bags. Yeah, possibly. Didn't Kroger's used to have bags, too, at one time? Kroger's still does. And they still do. You can get coupons. Okay. And, you know, I don't get city service. Well, neither do I. Yeah. And they go in the, you know, into the garbage because I don't have the ability to. Yeah, and that's why I was wondering where all this goes, just to make sure that at least some, it's going. At least they're not going in the storm sewer. No, no. But I'm afraid some do. Yeah. There's no question about that. So, well, I appreciate. I know this is a tough issue to be able to be equitable. And, again, what everyone has said before, being able to make sure that we're getting the bang for the buck on doing this. So if there's anything that we can help you with, assist you with, that you think it may help your program, please let us know. Thank you. All right. Thank you. That's all. Chair. Am I on? Yeah. Council Member Maloney, I think, has a comment. I just want to follow up on her question. Now, in the private sector, we have an agreement with the public now to work with you all to go around and pick up the leaves that are out on the street. They go, we're paying for the weight and everything going out there, and we're also paying the public for doing that. That is correct. Now, on Council Member Zotti's area, she raised it out there. The public comes to pick it up. They're going to take it to their landfill because we're not paying for her leaves to be put out there. We're only paying for the leaves that they're in the urban service area. They're being used for garbage pickup. That's the only money that's coming out. Now, the public is not going to come out and use it. I'm sorry, unless you pay for it. Then they're going to send it out there, which they're not going to. They're going to send it to their own landfill because they get money on the weight they have now. Let me clarify this. The only money that's going up there is what the city is paying for the garbage pickup now. Anybody on private, they're going to their regular landfill. So when I bring the thing up, if Charlie Martin was here and he said that the water sewer is better off with the vacuum leaf pickup, that's how you open your situation in areas where you have, where they don't have, where they have a private hall. Really, it's a stormwater sewer that they can use that money. To me, that's how you fix this problem so everybody can do it. Now, if you can't, then we've got to go back and revamp and see what we want to do. That's the problem. I want everybody to make it clear that not all the leaves are going to the landfill, I mean to Haley Pines. And just to clarify that, so we, I still think we need to, and you're doing a heck of a job. I'm not here to jump on you. I'm just trying to figure out how we can do it better and how we make sure everybody gets it done equally. And if it is what we think it is, Charlie Martin needs to answer that for me. So I just want to clarify that. Thank you. Okay. I think everybody has their questions asked and answered. Thank you, Director Allen. Thank you. Appreciate your presentation. Next, we have a presentation for 5G wireless small cells provided by CIO Valencinti. Good afternoon. I live in Councilmember Bledsoe's area, and my leaves are already all down almost. And I'm at the end of a court, so I have the value of getting all of the leaves at the end of the court. Right, I'm private. Before I start with this presentation, I appreciate the thoughts about Rethink Lex, because this is really an opportunity to take a service that we have been providing to the city for a long time and see whether we can do it in a different way or we can do it more efficiently. And I think it's exactly this kind of thing that we're trying to focus on. Suggestions are coming in, and by the way, I think we've reached almost 100. Some are, you know, trivial and can be done right away, and some are going to take a long, long time or may need investment. So anyway, thank you. 5G. And I think the best way I would like for you to think about this is that a small cell is the hardware part of it, and the 5G is the software part of it. That's the technology end of it. We do not control the deployment of 5G. And you'll see as I go through this presentation that the responsibilities of the city are fairly limited. 5G is deployed by the private sector, by the telecom companies. So we'll talk a little bit about technology, the evolution and revolution of 5G, and the small cell that I just referred to, and then really looking out into the future. What is the city's role? How are we deploying it? And then the role that the FCC has in its deployment. Just a little bit about the history. I don't know if you remember 1G. 1G is when that technology was an analog and you kept it in your car because you needed a suitcase to carry it in. It was that big. You hardly walked around with it. Or you needed its own briefcase. We then advanced to the 2G. That was the digital. And once it was digital, the devices were smaller. Not quite as mobile yet, but definitely smaller. 3G, about 2001, it's a mobile. And that's when the devices became so that you could carry them. You could put them in your briefcase, in your purse, et cetera. 4G is where most of us are now. And 4G LTE, and if you look at the bottom of that slide, the G stands for generation. And LTE, long-term evolution. That means that over time, the technology is going to get better. And if your cellular provider has 4G LTE, that means that they're on a path to keep upgrading it as possible. 5G is where we're going. And that's 2020. And the standards are still under development. And it's really quite important to remember that. That means that there are no standards yet. It also means that the speeds can go up to 10 gigabits per second. That's more than 600 times faster than your typical 4G. So evolution. What does that mean? That means that there'd be less lag time, especially for playing games, for sending large files. Because you know right now, when you send a large file, it takes a fairly long time. You can kind of wait for it to send and then to start populating your screen. That would all go much, much faster. The revolution end of it, it's probably, and I say probably because, again, no standards have been developed yet, it would be more reliable for the Internet and remote locations. Because right now, wireless doesn't work very well in remote locations. You know very well when you get dropped or you have one bar, maybe two bars, or no bars. You know, when we talk about bars, we mean cellular transmission and how quickly it goes. That will all get better. That's the revolutionary part of 4G. Now, I've highlighted some things there. And the reason I did that is that we need to focus on this. The 5G will increase the density of the fiber, but it depends on fiber. So 5G is not apart from fiber. It works with fiber. That's what makes it go faster. As I can see, I've referenced several different authorities on this. All right, what does it look like? That's always the question. So you've got a light. Let me see if I can get this pointer working. Here's the light, and here's the device, the small cell. This is what you see right now. Whoops, I think my light just went out. But if you look on the right-hand side, if you look on top of buildings, that's what you see right now. Look on top of one of the hotels or one of the office buildings. Those are the receptors, and you've got lots of them. That's primarily to increase better receptivity and better transmission. And here again, a couple of different areas that we see in the city. Right here, right here, right here. Much smaller, much more concise. And primarily on top of light poles. So in other words, you don't add another pole to it. Not yet, but I think that's going to be the bigger issue. So why are small cells required? Well, the 5G standards are not really deployed yet nor defined. Later on this year, the World Telecommunications Organizations are going to meet and define the standards and define at that conference what will emerge. I call them the two flavors. Let's see if I can go back. I want to point out there's a low density and a high density. And this depends on below 6 gigahertz and above 6 gigahertz. We call them the two flavors. One is not as invasive, probably, in terms of gigahertz. And the other one is much more so. The high density, high band frequency, and the low band frequency. You know what happens? Dogs leave the room when you get to the high band because it hurts their ears. All right. Let me go back again. I'm trying to use the pointer to point out a couple of things. High band frequencies will require fundamentally different architecture. Well, what does that mean? That means much denser, many more poles, whether they're light poles or small poles. There are some communities right now in the United States that are debating the height of the poles. Certain areas require certain height. They will not want a tall height, so it can't be a lamp. It can't be a street light. It has to be lower than that. And that's what's being debated right now. Again, there are, let me just emphasize, there are no standards yet. At the very bottom, I again highlighted what is going to be required. Each small cell will require power. Not very, not much power, but fiber, connectivity, and site access. So those three things are required for every small cell. All right. What is the city's role? And this is the part that we play. We have to award a telecom franchise agreement to qualified applicants. So in other words, they would come. They would apply for that. They come to general services. General services works with the law department to provide a telecom franchise. And our role is then to manage the public right-of-way. We have to do the balance between the wireless service and the requirements and aesthetics. I don't know if you remember, but when we did the Town Branch Commons and we did, I think, a slight change to Chapter 17C of our ordinance, we did it from an aesthetic perspective. And the reason for that was is that that is the part over which the city does have some control. So in other words, you don't want a big box sitting way down on the ground for some reason. You want it at a certain height maybe on a pole that would not impede vision or would not have any kind of traffic implications. It had to be at a certain height or certainly be blended into the architecture of whatever we were looking at. The third part is one that we are just in process of looking at, develop a strategic plan, how to utilize this asset then once it is deployed. That's the part where overall, if you look at what has already been deployed in the city, it's been fairly minimal. So here is what the FCC regulates now. They voted to override any local rules, and that occurred last year in 2018. So when an application comes, we really have what I call a shot clock running. So if it is for a site, and again, let me point out, if it's for a site, a new location, we have 90 days to provide that. If it's for a site, an existing site, 60 days. And the last item is, you know, we charge a fee. All franchises have a fee attached. There are some cities right now, or at least before some of this regulation came out, that had fairly high fees. In other words, part of that to prevent, in some cases, of implementation. That has been called upon, and there have been some lawsuits. So it is viewed that the fee has to be a reasonable fee. Yet again, nobody has defined what reasonable means. So what is this going to do for us? That's really the basic question. 5G small cell deployment will obviously provide opportunities to implement new services because you can download more data, you can look at more data. It's going to be faster and reliable. And so let me give you a couple of examples. For instance, right now, we do not own any lights, any street lights. But there are cities that own street lights. If they implement 5G technology, there's the potential now to have an application where the street light would come up if there's a disturbance in that area, or they would go down if there's no disturbance. Or if there's a lot of traffic, it might get brighter. If there's less traffic, it might not be so bright. That's probably the more simplistic one. Otherwise, there are cities now that are looking at sensors in streets, sensors on lights that will provide now the capability with the data that it can traffic, can be manipulated or diverted if you need to because you now got more data or it can be changed or rerouted. Because right now, look what we do. When we have a blockage of some kind, we said, reroute, reroute. You go to this direction. A lot of that could be done electronically in the future. There is a term called IOT, the Internet of Everything. You know, there are people who believe that over a period of time, everything's going to get connected. The good side is it might make it easier. The bad side is it might make it easier. There are people who are talking about, for instance, 5G wireless being deployed for driverless cars. In other words, you would need that kind of technology to do that. And there's a couple cities that are experimenting with that. So I'm not going to go through any more of these, but I do want to go to this slide. This is really the summary. 5G is not going to replace the existing 4G wireless networks. And remember, I said LTE. That's a long-term evolution. The 4G will remain. It will get upgraded with technology over time. The evolution of those networks over time, and that's really what that LTE means. 5G wireless standards will be finalized in 2020, and not until then. So right now, there are no standards. And I've included some of the things here, so let me see if I can point out. 5G dramatically changed the capability of wireless service because of its increased speed and bandwidth. So let me give you an example. Right now, our police force, in fact, every police force in almost every city, has a computer in their car. They are dependent on wireless telecommunications, wireless capability, to check license plates, to check whether there's a disturbance or something already maybe had happened, and in some cases to send a photograph if they believe that they have apprehended someone who might have already been apprehended before. Right now, you know what? That would take a long time over some of that wireless capability. That all will be enhanced because that's going to give you that added capability. Wireless companies are looking to install small-c technology, and it is done. Remember, this is the private sector, and it is done sometimes by having companies work together. There are companies that install the small cell, and then they work with companies to provide that wireless capability. And the very last item that I've highlighted down here is that the FCC 5G overrides any local rules. Now, you might ask, what are we doing about all this? What we found out over the last, I guess, about four or five months is that we've had wireless telecom companies come to us and come to different parts of the city. Sometimes they go to general services. They've gone to traffic. They've gone to engineering. They've gone to parks. And then sometimes they come to me. So what we've done is now we've organized ourselves into a small group and said, we're the people, so if you've got a request, we've got a working group, come to one place. Because that way we have a better understanding of what their capability is going to be, what they want to install, a way to actually send them to the right area, to the law department if they apply for a telecom franchise, and then also to have a better oversight of the aesthetics of what they want to implement. At the same time, that implementation right now, if I had to look at the city, is fairly slow. The interest has been mostly in what I call the high-density, high-volume areas. It's around Rupp Arena. It's around the university. It's those places. There has not been much interest yet in looking at the more sparser environments in terms of density. So they're looking at how to eventually increase the usage of their wireless networks. So we've got this working group going. We come together. We probably haven't been together for several months, but that's how we manage that deployment right now. And I'll be happy to answer any questions. Council Member Maloney is first. Thank you for this information. I understand the FCC regulation because we had one a couple years ago, a permit to put one in somebody's farm, and it was denied. Then we came back and tried to put it in somebody else's area, and it was denied. Went back to court, and the FCC overrules everybody, so we've got to put them up. And I understand where you're coming from. I'm still stuck in the 1G, 1979. I just want to give everybody a heads-up there. My constituents, and I've seen my colleagues up here, have been getting this letter, and I don't understand anything about it. When it comes to health, I get concerned about it. And I assume the FCC is already looking into this. Could you explain to me, because I told my constituent if it ever come up there, I would have somebody who's an expert to explain to where we are on that, what should we do on that, or should we not do anything on it? I just want to define what that letter means. Well, you know, I think that letter has come not only to many of you on the council, but has actually come to me, and I get sometimes multiples of them. There's very much a campaign, I think, going on across the country. It's going on in every state and in every city. In fact, the mayor got one that was actually intended for Lexington, South Carolina, but got sent to her by mistake. Almost exactly the same kind of letter. So there's definitely concern, but the point is, is that we have no role in this. And until standards are set and tests are run, what those tests mean, and it's really when I talked about the two flavors, less than 6 megahertz and above 6 megahertz, I think that's where the concern is going to be. What does that really mean? Now, you have articles that are being written. You have folks that are being quoted, some that are extremely, extremely conservative that say, oh, it's not a big deal, to everything from, you know, we're all, this is all going to be just the end of the future. So the point is, is that until there are some standards set and testing can be done against those standards, I don't know that there is an answer that anybody can give you. They can give you and cite literature on both extremes. And, again, the city really has no role in it. Thank you. Next is Councilmember McCarn. Thank you, Chair, and thank you for the presentation. To follow on Councilmember Maloney's point there, do you see this being any more harmful than what's already in place? I don't have enough knowledge to give you an opinion. Okay. But I think that what we have is that it has not been deployed greatly yet throughout the United States. I think probably where it has been deployed are the cities with a lot of density and where potentially a lot of people congregate and want that connectivity to be fast and reliable. Sure. I think it's going to take us another, you know, a year or 18 months before we see more literature coming out and more studies being done. You know, every single time a new technology gets deployed, there is a concern. And I will cite for you a very personal situation. You know, one of my early, early jobs that I had in technology was to help to deploy email in Great Britain, and that was back in 1984. And we always said the Brits weren't quite sure whether electricity was going to stay around or not because there was a lot of concern. You had this big green thing sitting in front of you emitting this green light, and it did look pretty scary. But the point is, is that in this particular case, there's probably not enough evidence on either side, and it would be irresponsible for us to do that. Appreciate that. A few other follow-up questions. You said the FCC overrides our local rules here. That's correct. Which we passed something back in the spring for the Town Branch Commons and the trail to keep the aesthetics pleasing and whatnot. How is this going to have an effect on that? No, this is actually we met with Town Branch Commons with the understanding that that is the part that we could control and have some input. So it's the aesthetics part that we changed in the ordinance, and we did that in conjunction because actually Brandy, who heads that effort, was part of our group and still is part of that group. Okay. Great. Thank you on that. And last, on page 29, you showed the cell towers that are already in place right now. Are these already active? You know, I don't know that, but I think they went around and looked to see where we had the small cell up there. I can't tell you whether they're all active or not. Okay. Probably the telecom company that has been most active in Lexington has been Verizon. And then if we look at, there's a couple of others, I think, that are looking to see. I think certainly AT&T potentially and others. But it's sometimes, like I said, they work in tandem. Crown Castle is a company that primarily puts on small cells that actually develops them and then actually builds them and hoists them. They are in the process, though, of changing themselves as a company. They're acquiring many more cellular companies. So I will tell you that this market is in flux. Okay. With the towers, all of them seem to be above ground. They are. And I understand that if they're above ground, they can spread out farther with their waves. I get that point. But can any of them go underground and be effective? Small cells will not be underground. Okay. That's why they need the fiber to feed. Now, you've got to remember, the small cells that are there are on top of lamps, of lights. So the reason they're high above the ground is because they're mounted. And the pole itself, the light pole itself, has enough space in it to provide fiber if needed. And by the way, you know, fiber can be provided by multiple companies. Right. And is the city going to be paying for any of the power to these or is it just going to be from Verizon, AT&T? Oh, because we do not own poles. Okay. All right. Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Council Member Evans. Thank you, Chair. So we do currently obviously have some franchise agreements. We do currently. So I guess I'm really concerned about the aesthetics, which is what we can control because what I think our forefathers, whomever did not have the foresight to do was control what is now the East New Circle Road because that is my district where it is cluttered with, you know, the utility poles and street lights, which are great to have. But I think that is a large part of what people get frustrated with aside from the used car lots. But so I'm wondering, that's the discussion that we need to be having. Is there some kind of concerted effort to talk to the telecom companies to perhaps sway them to use the light poles or poles that are already in existence? How do we have that conversation? Because that would be the last thing that I would want to see is having just recreating what is on New Circle Road around the city. Well, you know, the way that technology was deployed in the earlier years, primarily electricity, was to deploy it on poles and to deploy it above ground because that was actually the quickest way that people could do it and probably the most economical way that you could do it. In those cases, what happened is, and by the way, that also is controlled by the FCC and our Public Services Commission. So the Public Services Commission also allowed wireless to go over those same poles. Now, what is happening, if you look across the country, there are cities that are making the expenditure to bury all of those lines. I don't know whether that is possible or not in some cities, but in some, they're doing that. Most of these small cells would go probably over new poles, not over existing poles in most cases because the reason is to go on a pole, they have to get an agreement from the company that owns the pole. And in Lexington, the poles are owned by two companies, KU and Windstream. And with that, those. You want to make a comment? Sorry. Evan Thompson with the law department. We can have a hand in aesthetics and we do. I think it was in the spring we have a new section of 17C that deals with aesthetics generally and then also one for Town Branch Commons specifically. So that is something we can do and we are doing it. And as for poles, I went through the council, I think it might have been a couple of months ago, decommissioning of streetlights with KU. Basically, there's an agreement that states that it's between us and the telecom company that basically outlines the process of how these companies can get on KU's streetlights, goes through us and then we apply to KU and then they take it down and then the idea is that then the telecom company would come and put up a new pole in its place. So that's what we're trying to do. Okay. Well, I don't know if I want less streetlights. No. I think it's still going to be a streetlight. It's going to be a streetlight, usually a streetlight, small cell combination. So you said decommissioning. Yes. So I'm thinking that it would no longer be an active working streetlight. It would no longer be. Okay. What I really want to know is how can we work or encourage these telecom companies to work with the owners of existing poles so we don't have additional poles going up in the city. That's what I really want to know. And we can do that. So back when the FCC put out this thou shalt, they gave us a thou shalt date of if you want aesthetic controls, you have to have them by April 15th, somewhere along in there. We got that in. And basically what our aesthetic controls say, long and short, is you're going to put unless you've already got a permit out there before this April date, you're going to put it on an existing light pole, atop that light pole or replace that light pole if it can't handle that additional load. So our 17C was changed not just for Town Branch Commons, but for everywhere throughout the city. So 17C gives my staff and me the authority. If they come and say we want a new pole here, we say no. Our 17C, even though the FCC says you can go anywhere, the FCC also gave us some leeway to say if you have aesthetic requirements, they have to follow them. So as it stands now, if they come to us with a new pole, we say no. There's a great street light 50 feet away. We'll still get the coverage you're shooting for. Go talk with KU to decommission that pole. And by decommission, we mean we know our rental requirements for it. Then it's just an agreement between them and the utility. But we still monitor that because if a light goes out, they're still going to call us to get that fixed and we'll still call KU. So we do have controls in place right now as of April that prevents what we call pole farms where they just don't throw up poles everywhere. Because we don't want that and we know council doesn't want that and citizens don't want that. So, yes, we do have those controls in place. Again, it would have been passed probably in mid to late April. Council passed that update to 17C through. Thank you. Anything else? Okay, I have Council Member Plowman. Thank you, Chair, for recognizing me. Aldona, first of all, I want to compliment you. When you explain all this tech stuff to me, I can understand it. And that's not easily accomplished. So thank you for the explanation in such a concise way. My question, of course, wearing the 12th District hat, always is saying, what about the rural area? You've already chimed in and you've said that just like many of the others, that density is going to override because of the cost. Is that correct? That's correct. I think right now the intention of the companies, at least when they talk about the 5G deployment, is that potentially it could evolve where you would have greater distances and more reliability. But right now that is not necessarily where they're making their investment. Okay, but it does have the potential to do that. The potential is supposedly there. And that would be because of the height of the — Not only the height, but the density. Okay. The density. And in some cases, if you look at the presentation, there's a couple of quotes there about there will have to be more poles to actually provide that reliability. Okay. But the potential is there. The potential. That's great to know. The other thing I was going to ask you, when you talk about the FCC 5G order overrides local rules, is it too soon to know what those local rules are going to be, possibly overridden? Well, I think that before, I'm not sure that we had a shot clock running. So in some cases, if a company applied for a telecom franchise, I don't really think that there was really a time span unless they wanted it for some reason. So in other words, to be quicker or longer. But now we are given a time frame in which we have to provide that telecom. So they control that. They control the time. They control it. Okay. Great. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Okay. I don't see no others having a question. So thank you for your presentation. Certainly. The next item of business, we have a referral list there. Is there any comments or anybody want to change anything on the existing referral list? Certainly. You can get that information to Councilmember Farmer if you want to change some of those things. But we do have a number of items on there. So if there's any changes or updates on when presentations can be made, I think we need to talk to Councilmember Farmer or Kendra in the office. I think the last item is, do we have anybody signed up for any type of public comment on the two issues that we've talked about? I don't have anybody. All right. I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. We are adjourned. Thank you.