# Board of Architectural Review - October 9, 2019 > Auto-transcribed civic record · Board · October 9, 2019 - **Permalink**: https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/meeting/4855 - **Source video**: https://lfucg.granicus.com/player/clip/4855?view_id=14&redirect=true - **Date**: 2019-10-09 - **Body**: Board - **Last revised**: February 5, 2026 - **Length**: 10,360 words > ⚠️ **Auto-generated content.** Audio from the official Granicus video was auto-transcribed by OpenAI Whisper-1, with speaker labels folded in from Granicus closed-captioning. Structured facts were extracted with GPT-4o; the narrative summary was written by Anthropic Claude Sonnet. Speaker labels and verbatim wording may contain errors. See [methodology](https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/about/methodology) or [report a correction](mailto:editor@lexingtonky.news). --- ## Meeting Overview The Board of Architectural Review convened on October 9, 2019. The meeting addressed two main agenda items: Staff Approvals and Certificate of Appropriateness Applications, both of which were informational in nature. During the session, the Board conducted seven motions and votes on various matters before them. No public comments were recorded during this meeting. The Board's work focused on reviewing architectural and design matters within their jurisdiction, with both agenda items serving to inform Board members of ongoing staff activities and pending applications for certificates of appropriateness. ## Votes and Decisions The Board considered seven Certificate of Appropriateness (COA) applications during the October 9, 2019 meeting, approving five applications and postponing decisions on two others. All votes were conducted by voice vote. **Approved Applications:** • **Case 09290601H** - COA for 601 East High Street Woodland Park was approved with conditions requiring the applicant to grade the demolition area and install sod, along with standard conditions. • **Case 05550212A** - COA for 212 Desha Road was approved with standard conditions. • **Case 08760219** - COA for 219 South Hanover Avenue was approved with conditions requiring final material decisions to be submitted to staff and canopy support attachment points to be mounted in mortar joints. • **Case 07041012C** - COA for solar panels at 1012-1014 Fincastle Road was approved with the condition that any increase in height must be submitted to staff for review and approval. • **Case 07041012B** - COA for 1012-1014 Fincastle Road with modifications was approved with conditions requiring final details of windows and doors to be submitted prior to COA issuance, along with standard conditions. **Postponed Applications:** • **Case 02510402B** - The decision on 402 South Broadway was postponed. • **Case 02140601G** - The decision on 601 Boonesboro Avenue was postponed. All motions passed by voice vote, though the meeting records do not specify which Board members made or seconded the individual motions. The transcript timestamps for these votes were not available in the meeting documentation. ## Contested Items The Board meeting on October 9, 2019, featured one significant contested item that generated heated discussion between the applicant and board members. **Window Replacement at 402 South Broadway** The primary point of contention involved a proposal to replace windows at 402 South Broadway. The disagreement centered on the necessity and appropriateness of window replacement versus preservation of the original windows. The applicant argued for window replacement, citing two main concerns: noise issues and deterioration of the existing windows. They presented their case that the current windows were no longer functioning adequately and that replacement was necessary to address these practical problems. Board members, however, emphasized the critical importance of preserving the original windows as part of the building's historic character. The board's position reflected their commitment to maintaining the architectural integrity and historical authenticity of the property, viewing the original windows as significant contributing elements to the structure's historic value. The discussion became heated as both sides presented their arguments, with the applicant focusing on practical functionality concerns while the board prioritized historic preservation principles. This type of disagreement is common in historic preservation contexts, where property owners' practical needs often conflict with preservation standards that prioritize maintaining original architectural features. The structured data does not indicate the final outcome of this contested item or whether a resolution was reached during the meeting. The intensity of the discussion suggests this was a significant issue requiring careful consideration of both the property owner's concerns and the board's preservation mandate. ## Staff Approvals The Board reviewed staff-approved applications for various properties located within historic districts during this informational agenda item. This regular agenda item allows the Board to stay informed about preservation activities that staff has already approved under their delegated authority. The discussion covered applications that had been processed and approved by preservation staff for work on historic properties. These staff approvals typically involve routine maintenance, minor alterations, or other work that falls within established guidelines and does not require full Board review. This agenda item serves as an informational update to keep Board members apprised of ongoing preservation activities throughout the city's historic districts. No formal action was required from the Board, as these applications had already been reviewed and approved by qualified preservation staff under their administrative authority. The staff approval process helps streamline the review of routine preservation work while ensuring that more complex or potentially controversial projects receive full Board consideration. This system allows property owners to proceed with appropriate maintenance and minor improvements in a timely manner while maintaining preservation standards. *Note: Specific transcript timestamps are not available for this agenda item.* ## Certificate of Appropriateness Applications The Board reviewed Certificate of Appropriateness (COA) applications for various properties located within historic districts during the October 9, 2019 meeting. This agenda item was designated as item number 2 on the meeting schedule. The discussion focused on the review and approval process for COA applications, which are required for property modifications within designated historic districts to ensure compliance with preservation standards and guidelines. These applications represent requests from property owners seeking permission to make changes to structures or properties that fall under historic preservation oversight. The agenda item was structured as an informational discussion rather than requiring formal action or voting by the Board members. The review process allows the Board to evaluate proposed modifications against established historic preservation criteria and community standards. No specific details were available regarding the number of applications reviewed, the particular properties involved, or the nature of the proposed modifications during this session. The meeting materials did not identify key speakers who presented information about individual applications or Board members who led the discussion on specific cases. This agenda item represents part of the Board's ongoing responsibility to oversee Certificate of Appropriateness applications as part of the historic preservation process, ensuring that proposed changes to properties within historic districts maintain the character and integrity of these designated areas while allowing for appropriate property improvements and maintenance. *Note: Specific transcript timestamps were not available for this agenda item.* --- ## Decisions - **09290601H** — passed (0-0): Approval of COA for 601 East High Street Woodland Park - **05550212A** — passed (0-0): Approval of COA for 212 Desha Road - **08760219** — passed (0-0): Approval of COA for 219 South Hanover Avenue - **02510402B** — postponed (0-0): Postpone decision on 402 South Broadway - **07041012C** — passed (0-0): Approval of COA for solar panels at 1012-1014 Fincastle Road - **07041012B** — passed (0-0): Approval of COA for 1012-1014 Fincastle Road with modifications - **02140601G** — postponed (0-0): Postpone decision on 601 Boonesboro Avenue --- ## Full transcript oh so so so so so so so so so so the october 9th meeting of the board of architectural review we appreciate those of you who are in attendance today excuse me the board was established by a zoning ordinance in 1958 our first to start district was france park and we now have a total of 15 historic districts the board which is appointed by the mayor and confirmed by the urban county council is a part of the division of historic preservation the historic preservation office maintains a full-time staff to assist you with your projects the board encourages and recommends that applicants use them as a resource the historic preservation office is located at 101 east fine street room 220. it is our procedure to consider applications in the order by which they are listed on their agenda in each case we'll have a presentation by the staff and we'll hear any additional comments from the applicant the board will then ask questions or make comments regarding the application and then hear comments from any other interested parties the chair will then ask the board members to enter motion if you wish to address the board please come to the microphone and state your name and address for the public record we also ask that you write your name on the sign in sheet by the door so that the information can be recorded correctly and i apologize it's allergy time i would like to note the following staff approvals before we begin a review of the applications there are certain items that the staff can approve eliminating the necessity for all applicants to appear before the board there are a total of 15 approved applications noted on today's agenda they are as follows in the ashland park historic district at 212 de sherry road install gate and fence at 231 de sherry road install chicken coop in the ellsworth historic district at 131 kentucky avenue replace the rear door at 331 lyndon walk refurbished windows at 126 old park avenue renovate structure in the constitution historic district at 120 east third street remove damaging tree and at 122 east third street remove that damaging tree in the cadentown historic district at 752 cadent lane remove dead tree at 772 cadent lane renovate structure in the ellsworth historic district at 667 ellsworth replaced the vinyl windows at 646 ellsworth replaced fence in the fayette park historic district at 435 fayette park replaced the rear entry doors in the mulberry hill historic district at 461 north limestone replaced two trees in the north side historic district at 323 north broadway refurbished the chimney and finally in the woodward historic district at 864 west high street remove damaging trees we will now turn to our applications we will turn to our first one at 601 east high street demolished restroom building is the applicant here please come on up mr chair while they're coming up we'd also note that it's on the next line down but the other portion of that application is to construct a restaurant well i'm sorry yes i didn't read the whole thing and site work to go with it please and of course i didn't rearrange them okay this is the ellsworth historic district the scope of the project is demolished restroom building and construct restroom building i believe the staff has recommended approval subject to what i've been referring to as our standard conditions let me turn to them very quickly the only condition of substance would be the grade to demolition area and receipt or place sod the other two are what i refer to as the standard conditions if any changes are made that alter the information submitted resubmit the changes to staff for review and approval prior to start of the affected work and once reviewed by the other divisions resubmitting changes to staff or board for review and approval prior to start of work are in agreement with those recommendations we are all right is there any discussion about the application as a personal note i live near the park and i think the building will be a wonderful addition to it any comments or observations from the audience if not then the chair is ready for a motion at some point may i ask did you all identify yourselves and i missed it we did not oh i'm sorry i'm just bouncing right along excuse me would you please identify yourself for the record thank you thank you absolutely i'm rob deal with jre architects representing the department of parks and recreation for the all right and i'm just trying to save the city some money by making this go as quickly as possible for you so we appreciate you got and one more staff member from the division of please ask yourself yep michelle kasiniak with parks and recreation thank you for being here all right any further discussion on the motion or on the project i need a motion then please chair um i recommend on case number 0 9 2 9 0 6 0 1 h at 601 east high street woodland park that the um coa be approved per staff recommendations which uh includes um one item that's non-standard which is number one is grade the demolitionary and receipt and place or place sod and then the two standard requirements number two if any changes are made that alter the information submitted resubmit the changes to staff for review and approval prior to the start of the affected work and number three once reviewed by other lfucg divisions resubmit any changes to staff or board for review and approval prior to the start of work okay do i have a second second any further discussion on the motion if not the chair will call the question all those in favor of the motion say aye aye opposed nay the motion passes and the coa has been approved as conditioned thank you thank you so much thank you guys thanks all right turning now to our next uh application at 212 deshae road mr dennis we sort of rearranged the schedule a little bit uh is the applicant here scope of work is construct patio come on i will now try to remember to ask for your name so rj yosvick all right thank you sir i believe the application has been approved subject to our standard conditions are you in agreement with those yes all right any questions or comments about the application i have i have none any questions or comments from the audience if not the chair is ready for a motion that's all right mr chair uh in regards to case number 05550212-a at 219 deshae road i move to approve the application for a certificate of appropriateness with our two standard conditions applied all right do i have a second i second any discussion of the motion i i have only one question and is it 212 or 219 212 all right 219 is up next did i call it wrong thank you no okay all right any questions we'll correct that all right with respect to the application at 212 deshae road which is it is what john okay all right yes uh all those in favor of the motion say aye aye opposed nay all right the motion passes and the coa is approved thank you sir turning now to a third application at 219 south hanover thank you this is a proposal to construct a patio canopy and new opening and the applicants walking up to the podium uh please state your name for the record please excuse me franklin gray all right uh mr gray i believe the staff has recommended approval of your application subject to a couple points one being uh the final decisions on the materials to be submitted to the staff once you have dissented them uh you will need as condition two attachment points with canopy supports be mounted in mortar joints and not in the masonry itself and the last two are the standard conditions uh do you have any questions about those are you in agreement with them yes sir all right do you have any questions or comments from the from the board any questions or comments from the audience if not then the chair is ready for a motion chair relevant to case number 08760219 at 219 south hanover avenue um i recommend approval of the coa per the staff's review and recommendations including their three conditions as you just noted all right do i have a second second any further discussion on the motion if not then the chair will call the question all those in favor say aye aye opposed nay motion passes and your coa has been approved as conditioned thank you very much mr gray thank you so much turning now to uh our next application at 402 south broadway uh the scope of work is renovate structure and construct addition is the applicant here coming up now you have a bunch of conditions state your name for the record they saved me state your name for later i'm brian luffman okay lexington kentucky and you are for the record james burris 1647 duntree all right this is an ambitious project i go by this building every single day i'm looking forward to seeing what you're going to do with it thank you but it's a complicated project indeed and we have a number of conditions i'm assuming you want to be heard on this application i would uh i prepared a little slide presentation if you don't mind if if the board would like to see it okay are you in disagreement with any of the recommendations and suggestions made by the staff for the most part i'm in agreement um let's go through and see where your disagreement is uh the staff is to review and approve any windows proposed to be replaced in general the windows requirement is going to be the the sticking point that i would like to discuss today we'll talk about that in a moment sure number two upon removal of the t111 coverings of openings along maxwell street staff shall review openings to determine the door or window and style required to be modified i would like them to review yes okay and then you can talk about that later yes number three provide door windows as required in place of filling the historic opening i guess i would like to also discuss that all right uh provide door and window details and specifications for staff for review and approval prior to the issuance of the coa i'm assuming we're we're going to comply with whatever the historic preservation society says on the roof and number five provide the metal roof details and specifications for staff for review and approval we're okay with that all right six and seven are the standards so let's focus this conversation then on the windows and the replacement windows all right and normally our process is to let the staff go first and then you can have your presentation as well all right thank you good afternoon good afternoon i would like to point out that there is a letter of recommendation for the project left from ben kothman right okay so this as you mentioned is a little complicated but i'll try to mainly target the issues that the applicant has concerns with all right thank you so 402 south broadway um this is the broadway elevation just a closer view this is the area this is the area that's proposed to be rebuilt with the new windows above and a new door so these these panels would become glass and then also above the door is that painted glass bearing i'm sorry is that painted glass above the um what no it's plywood okay and by t111 what do you mean okay and by t111 what do you mean t t111 is a plywood type siding i'll get to that later that's not at this well okay i don't mean i don't mean to jump you out of order miss hill is knowingly saying she knows what that means i had no idea okay okay thank you you'll see it in later photos all right thank you i just wanted to give you sure kind of an over overview of the site uh this is the south elevation rear elevation this is the proposed location of the addition and this is the existing cmu edition close up the screen please oh thank you north elevation uh these are the three historic openings that are in question um here's some close-ups of those this is t111 it's a plywood siding made to look like a board and batten leave you with that so the applicant is uh requesting a certificate of appropriateness to construct an addition in the rear of the structure the staff had no problems with that we agreed with the applicant applicant agreed with the staff number two is replace all windows and when i say all windows i'm speaking of all of the double hung windows that are not enclosed with t111 throughout the structure those locations plus on the south and east elevations so the proposal calls for the replacement of all windows in the historic structures the openings at the first floor level along maxwell street have been covered in t111 plywood siding and are proposed to be returned to openings with new glass and panels the the balance of the double hung windows are proposed to be replaced with aluminum clad windows and then reconstruct the storefront with new glass and solid panels the solid panels in question are along the the concrete stem wall so if we can look at the drawings so so this is uh the first floor cmu which will be covered with the new cementitious panel system um this is a a new addition above that with glass and so here's one of the windows that would be replaced where we talk about reviewing the windows after the t111 is taken off these are the proposed locations again this is along the maxwell street uh the western most i'm sorry the eastern most and then the center are proposed to be all glass above panels at the lower portion this is currently noted which is again a historic opening to be replaced with solid panels so the guidelines are included for your use i'll go to findings i'm going to concentrate on number two the staff finds that the proposal for the replacement of all windows in the historic structure requires further discussion the opening at the first floor level along maxwell along maxwell street that has been covered with t111 siding may retain artifacts of what may include material or evidence of historic doors or windows again staff does not know that but we would like to see once just that t111 comes off because there are existing what appear to be historic window frames around that t111 in order to meet guidelines 124a which states windows should be preserved and maintained in their original location size and design with their original materials and number of panes original framing original framing of the opening should be retained and maintained and 124b which states in part windows should be preserved and maintained in their original location size and design with their original materials and number of panels original framing of framing of the opening should be retained and maintained staff is staff should be given the opportunity to be at the site as the exterior t111 siding is being removed to determine if modifications to the proposal is required to fully comply with the guidelines the replacement of the balance of the double hung windows with aluminum clad windows does not meet the guidelines staff has done a cursory review of the one of the windows and did not see obvious evidence that all or even most of the windows were beyond repair the design principle states windows should be maintained and repaired to match the original design if windows are deteriorated beyond repair the installation of new wood windows to match the original designs is recommended windows of baked enamel or anodized aluminum clad may be considered only if original windows cannot be repaired guideline 124a and 124b state respectively that windows should be preserved and maintained in their original location size and design with their original materials and number of panes original framing of the opening should be retained and maintained and should be repaired rather than replaced if the review process determines it is necessary due to severe deterioration that the replacement should be in kind match the original and size material and design the installation of new wood windows to match the original design is recommended the installation of baked enamel this sounds a little redundant but it's different parts of the guidelines the installation of baked enamel or anodized aluminum clad windows not not not totally aluminum construction may be considered if aluminum clad windows are applied they should match historic wood windows as closely as possible in their dimension profile depth of muttons and surrounding trend vinyl or vinyl clad windows are not allowed so we don't need to go into number three and as far as recommendations staff recommends the denial the denial of the proposal to replace all wood windows additionally the staff recommends approval of the balance of the coa with the following conditions um and you've read the conditions okay should i read them to the record any questions for the staff members staff to review and approve any windows proposed to be replaced number two upon removal of t111 covering of the openings along maxwell street staff shall review openings to determine if the door or window and style required are required to be modified provide door and windows as required in place of filling the historic opening that is one to the west provide door and window details and specifications to staff for review and approval prior to the issuance of a coa provide metal roof details and specifications to the staff for review and approval prior to the issuance of a coa and if any changes are made that alter the information submitted resubmit the changes to staff for review and approval prior to the start of the effective work once reviewed by other lfucg divisions resubmit any changes to the staff or board for review and approval prior to the start of the work and the deadline for board action is november 10th 2019 thank you very much any questions from the board members at this time all right then let's have the applicant come up uh mr luffman yes sir it's your turn i'd like to first honestly thank barry and amelia for helping me throughout this is my first uh rehab of any kind of project in lexington especially in a historic district so they've been very supportive and helpful throughout so thank you um this is merely just informational but the uh the plan for 402 south broadway is to revitalize a old iconic building that everyone in lexington seems to know and drive by frequently so we want to succeed where many others over the past 15 years have failed and that is coming up with a plan that will revitalize that project make it look good without it being a sports bar or neon signs or whatever it's going to it's going to remain a icon of lexington and we want it to look as that so the scope is a full-scale rehabilitation of the blighted neglected building for 15 years we want to create a long-term upscale vacation rental for large groups so essentially it's going to be an upscale vrbo or airbnb in lexington for as everyone knows lexington has quite a bit of tourism through keeneland and the bourbon trail equine everything else within the guidelines of um of zoning there is a extended stay hotel um conditional use permit that we have applied for we have support for from the neighborhood and our review of that is next week on the 14th we do have a letter of support from the south hill neighborhood association they are very supportive of this project and my plans for the building and we believe that that will be approved next week and in that we have to have specific we have to meet specific business type of guidelines where we um lease it for more than a month or sorry more than a week at a time for more than 50 percent of the time and that is truly our business plan with the project it's not to create a hotel with high traffic um it's like i said a revival revitalization of an iconic building in the downtown area and that that allows it to be in the opportunity zone as an investment and why that's relevant is that i have to to meet those requirements i have to essentially double the value of the building with a significant revitalization so um for it to qualify as an opportunity zone investment i have to invest more than a half million dollars into the building which i'm planning on doing and that will provide significant tax benefits and also comply with their with their guidelines this is the letter of support from the south hill neighborhood association president justin denton i meet met at their meeting and everyone was resoundingly supportful supportive um the current state if we can dim the lights maybe for these photos um they can see the one behind you better wonderful board members can it's a little challenging for the audience okay i apologize for that that's okay so the uh the current state is what you expect in 15 years of being vacant um roofs have fallen in um there's trash everywhere paints chipping all over the place um there's lots of lots of damage so this is a full gut rehab we're going to hopefully stay or maintain or keep some of the flooring some of the architectural details of the uh of the finished carpentry etc and the staircase the the needs or what i anticipate anticipate to be important for this project success is that we have a lot of bedrooms because um this is going to be for large groups i want each one to have its own bathroom and that we want it to be modern on the inside um with all the amenities that you know an out-of-town guest would expect um we want the modern interior and i appreciate the historic preservation for not hammering me too bad on the inside it's nice that i can do what we want on the inside make sure it's modern amenities um the key is the noise reduction um this is on a very busy corner and a lot of noise and for someone to be able to sleep in some of these rooms it would be very difficult in the current state uh we've been up there it's been incredibly noisy um and we're going to definitely improve that with insulation efficiencies um new drywall etc i think that's going to significantly help but i'm hoping that the windows can also be a part of that and then um we want to we do want to preserve the exterior even if it weren't in h1 as we all know this is a very cool building and we want it to look the same just refreshed and uh the key to the project is opening in spring of 2020 and that's why i'm asking for your approval today with a few conditions of course i'm sure but um because in caneland opening in april and the kentucky derby in may and then the huge bourbon tourism season of the summer we kind of need to be open for that uh if we miss that window we're going to be uh behind the eight ball on this project um this is the key component and that is just noise um i brought a decibel meter to the to the building took it upstairs and um it was flatlining around 45 to 50 and you'll see on that chart that's between a quiet library and an average home's room tone so i thought that was okay but then it's not great because a quiet bedroom at night would be in the 30s um this bus drove by and it shot up to 60 right at that moment and these windows are you know they're old and they're single pane and i'm sure improvement can be made with adding storms throughout um but it's certainly there can be improvement beyond that and that's what i'm why i'm asking for a replacement also um secondary egress um to get these built these operable to where someone could have to jump out if they needed to or for ventilation or for whatever reason the person would want to open a window with storms on the outside it's going to be impossible not impossible but very difficult to get out and then the current status if you can see the photos of the windows many of the panes are broken um these are three separate windows and there were other panes that are broken there's much deterioration many of the sashes are coming apart these aren't things that i i think i do agree with the staff that they're they could be replaced i mean repaired it would it's a heavy lift um i i agree anything can be done if there's unlimited budget and if there's a when there's a will there's a way but what i found out and i've got estimates from lexington wood and windows who is highly recommended um with laryn and they came out and did a full estimate and of the just the upstairs windows um on two of the faces the the main broadway side and then the parking lot side it's going to cost me twenty thousand dollars to replace just the upstairs and put put storm windows in and in that many of these panes are being replaced and many of the sashes are being rebuilt with new wood and when they told me that i'm thinking this seems like we're doing replacement windows anyway in a way um i know it looks different looks the same as these historic windows but it's not really we're just keeping windows this is a full rehab anyway so that's why i disagree with the staff's recommendation that we can keep these windows in general i find it to be putting lipstick on a pig when these things have been vacant without storms in many cases for more than 15 years and they are truly deteriorating in my opinion um just for let me ask you let me ask you a question report are those the original window panes and do you have any idea what they date back to how do we know i would guess they are in many cases not all of them there's some of them have been replaced the rolled glass that you can see in some of them right are are still intact but there are places and as you well recognize to a preservation nerd that rolled glass is important of course okay all right yes i'm understood and when the board's ready uh the staff can provide you with some additional uh study about what's visible at least um from the window situation because of course the wood in the sashes is in the ones that it survive is the historic elements as part of the issue so i don't want to digress it's your all's moment to make your information well known thank you but when the board's ready we can go there understood i'm almost finished um and so the uh the interior is going to look modern i just brought this slide to to get you more excited about the entire project and the entire scope of it rather than hanging up on one issue um we want to get this thing started and it's um i think it's a really exciting thing for lexington and hopefully i have more than one location of this i think i think it's going to be relatively popular and we would like to restore some other buildings downtown to to accommodate um so essentially i'm asking for your approval today i know that's a heavy a tall ask when um when it's been recommended a denial of the proposal is what i'm suggesting um reason this is because we've got a big tourism season coming up but beyond that just because jace did some studies on on sound um ratings on newer windows we we're almost certain it's it's impossible to say what the current state is and what it would be improved with with storms but it's almost impossible to believe that new windows can't outperform on the noise reduction and getting us the good reviews that we need with this project and for that reason i'm i'm essentially begging for your approval of this project under the condition that we can do what we need to do with the windows to ensure the project's success okay thank you did you want to add something well i'll just i'll just add that this we want this to be successful and these kinds of projects live and die by the comments of users and you know referrals and when when when the stc which susan and josh know about the sound transmission classification of products we can we can with new windows the performance of that the lowering of the of the sound transmission for what they are now is is it's going to be a very large amount so we're we're estimating it's 0.15 to 0.18 of the existing and we can go to a 0.35 with a new high performance window that would it and the staff uh comments if those windows are applied the aluminum clad we would be work closely with the manufacturer so that the dimension profile mutton surrounding trim all of that are closely as close as possible a match to the existing so we feel strongly in the argument that we're trying to bring something back to life that has been very neglected and we're spending a lot of resources the the measures that we're taking to bring this back are pretty extensive so in the in the window questions specifically the operability for a tenant the sound transmission classification the long-term performance the maintenance all of those are key important things that affect the the budget and and how we're trying to do this responsibly and at the same time make a sound investment that's going to be successful for this area so that's all uh did the staff have any additional comments or questions at this time the only thing in a procedural sense um and we can ask mr dennis uh if the board comes upon that you want more information from the preservation guidelines perspective specific to these windows what he's seen and so forth i myself have not been on site with this project um but before we get to but before we get to that or when you're ready for it um i would also just remind everybody that the application um is two pieces relative to the staff recommendation we're on the windows which is the sticking point but don't lose track please of the fact that the staff's recommendation is for approval of the balance of your projects application um with conditions and so um it it's an approval largely with a recommended disapproval specific to this topic and the board of course will reflect those considerations in their actions let's go miss hill do you have any questions or comments um i do i do have a couple of questions and it has to do with um egress from the second floor miss hill would you lean into your mic a bit or pull it towards you i drop it down there you go all right thank you the operability and egress is egress dependent on those windows is in terms of review is that a dependent item for egress from the second floor but these several of these windows will be egress windows from bedrooms so um is that in terms of operability it's important that that you can get out quickly and that yeah i just i my question also is are you all having to sprinkle the building this is going to be i've spoken with lfucg this is going to this is a residential falls under the krc so okay so what kind of fire code provisions are you falling under because i'm not sure they're going to prove a semi-hotel building having as their exit through the windows they're going to have to be some kind of a interior stairwell that they can use to get out i would think and jim uh mr dickinson but um i don't think if you looked at the floor plan the um there's adequate doorways to get out okay and per code to get out of that you have so many feet without using the windows right right the code is not going to say jump out your second floor right i didn't think so and i was just right however if i'm if i'm a guest in a hotel and well not a hotel but if there i have a little bit more um confidence if there's a fire outside i can i there's a way to get out this isn't we're not talking about a huge issue here essentially it's the sound the efficiency the getting all of the windows to match with the building because we are replacing some it's almost guaranteed we have to replace some because some of the opens have been closed we have an addition we don't want it to be a mishmash of new windows with refurbished windows and so there's many the egress is a small component i think that's why the the proposal is strongly saying you go with wood it's where you for any replacement windows you may do so that you will have a better match ultimately now here's here's the problem although the guidelines speak in terms of should there's some guidelines that have a little bit of flexibility and there's some that we don't have any flexibility at all when it comes to windows that are capable of being repaired and they're original to the house we really don't have much leeway if any to allow you to take those windows out and destroy them that may be but let me suggest a couple of thoughts to you that you may want to explore one of which is how your decimal device will work in the empty room is going to be different when you have that room filled with furniture rugs drapes and all the other sound deafness dampening devices you may have you can use drapes you can probably use an interior window without any problem that will actually give you that extra measure of protection in terms of noise and yet preserve the integrity of the window i live in a very noisy neighborhood i have windows on the second floor that have the interior window i don't hear anything and i'm right next to euclid avenue and i don't hear traffic at all i understand what you might want to do is just for a sample get it get some interior uh plexiglass windows and put them on the inside of the building and just see what your decibel reader will do certain there's a way to continue to improve upon it however at some point i want the guests to show up and say oh this is a cool room this is i mean this is look i can open the door and feel the breeze and or open the window i can um that this looks like a modern hotel and there's with storms and interior windows you're losing i believe that i mean that's just my opinion i would i agree with you there are ways certainly in today's modern world very few people actually open their windows anymore with air conditioning i understand of course you would i was just in paris and i was in an old historic building this is like four months ago and this is when i got on this kick and um i i was in this historic hotel and brand new window and it's completely quiet in my hotel room and i appreciated the heck out of that but then i did i opened the window and i remember it distinctly and this is before i bought this building and took in the sights and sounds of paris and for whatever reason it's it's okay to replace windows in these even more historic places like old cities like paris and then in lexington it's it's a challenge and that's okay in some cases i understand why you would want to keep these windows in this case if if any of the three of you went and looked at these windows yes they maybe can get improved but for 15 years of neglect it is essentially rebuilding them out of old materials is what essentially what i got out of this estimate is what we're we're approving it's not just keeping the windows as they are and they're in good shape anyway it's a huge overhaul i'm i'm not so opposed to this if they can duplicate the windows as they're that's not what the guideline calls for it doesn't call for duplication that's not what the guidelines is right now they're covered up in storms and they'll probably have to continue that way i understand the argument that argument has been presented before but the guideline is pretty emphatic that repair is far preferable to replacement even if they match in the repair process can you insulate them via the uh filling the pockets on either side of your cavities and all that and then the window glass itself is where you put your exterior storm and hence creates your gap that helps with your insulation and you can come pretty close to what you get in your ratings with a new window so can can you use an insulated glazing unit in the window as in break out the glass and and put in well particularly where the glass is already broken and can't be reused mostly we have got uh barry you want to address this that was done because we've had we've had some where you do have uh but the whole unit is a new window i hate to do this but there are there are limited seven i hate to do this since we have a time limit i want to give us about five more minutes on this proposal okay i'm not trying to cut you off but believe me i love this project thank you but there we have to work with the guidelines go ahead barry okay there there are multiple ways that you could reglaze you have to remember that single pane glass is 3 16th if you wanted to put insulated glass in that a residential is 5 8th inch thick the muttons and all of the sash would have to be routed out to make it deeper and once you start doing that the profile where the og is you know you start losing that it gets more shallow there is the possibility of sash kits that can be put in place miss carver mentioned filling in the sash weight pockets if you want to keep these windows operable there's two options one is to keep the pockets with the cords and the weights the other is to replace all of those with spring so that that's kind of the different levels of options that you would have okay so just just a few comments because it is a wonderful project it really is um and when deciding and part of the reason i think that it's going to be very successful is it is a historic building is people aren't going to come to it because it's brand new building they're going to come to it a location and because it is a historic building and so i think expectations uh what what you're doing proposing to do will really bring life to this back to this building and so i think from my point of view that means that the weight of following the guidelines is really important um that the expectations of folks who are staying here is that they're not they're not coming to a replicate building they're they're coming to a building that has the story of the history of lexington in it which is very cool that you're doing that and there are a lot of cities in europe where the conversation about that this is even more intense far more intense than here so um and i know that windows uh make an issue uh difference both in terms of noise but but also energy but there are definitely many examples of historic buildings uh within our core that have dealt with this issue and have done it within the guidelines you can actually make those windows a selling point for yourself and i tell you what it took me a long time and several intense conversations with miss curve for me to finally catch on to what was i'm missing with these old windows and finally one day i noticed in my house which was built 1925 and still has its original windows i saw how the light worked off that window as opposed i had to replace a pane it was a completely different experience and that's when i got it that's why these old windows are important and that really is something you can play with in terms of advertising your historic building not a replica but a building that has been there since 1875 and that's going to be your selling point and that's why people won't come if they have a noisy night and i don't think i don't think they will i think you'll figure out a way to quiet it down people know that you're on a busy corner they're not going to demand perfection or they wouldn't be in their first place i think if you're an out-of-town guest and you just pick a place you don't know how close that building is i respect all of your opinions on this and i do and the the guidelines say it's not as cut and dried as what i've seen i agree with you i do if we're in the old house and i'm restoring it to the nines on the inside it'd be ludicrous to replace windows the guidelines say if the review process determines that replacement is necessary due to severe deterioration now that's an opinion and that's that's a completely subjective um someone has to make that determination my determination as the landowner is that they are severely deteriorated to the point where they're going to all be pulled out rebuilt so in most cases with old glass which will get you the effect that you're discussing but in my opinion that is it's hardly a just keeping of this so i understand what you're saying but i still think i still maintain it's idyllic to think that that people will just show up and be really appreciative of the windows but there would be the one negative person that says i couldn't sleep in that room because it was too darn loud and you're going to have those regardless i guarantee it even with your new windows uh let me make one more quick quick quick point then we have to move on uh this your application to replace all the windows is probably premature do more of an inventory of what you've got maybe bring in an outside evaluator other than yourself and your and your consultant and see what they have to say about the windows oh we have brought the the premier window repair place in the in the that's your estimate for replacing but i'm talking about this is a repair estimate okay has that been provided to the board uh no it has not but i can it needs to be provided to the board and submitted into the record but tied to this may i suggest that what's lacking here is we need a window by window evaluation study and so we can go gives you uh you know window number one window number two all the way through the building that gives you a how intact is the wood in the sashes where is the rot what is the level of repair necessary we need it for every window and you can't just blanketly uh kind of take a hey we think they're all shot and i'm not not criticizing i'm just saying miss girl let me suggest can we actually go ahead and prove the rest of this application and defer uh taking action on the disapproval it's certainly an option for the board why don't we break that out if we can for further consideration well if you're asking amelia's suggested that we request approval based on everything except for the windows sorry she said it much more uh elegant than you did not but that's what i'm trying to suggest okay and then and then the other portion could be considered for continuation right okay i i have one quick question uh about replacement of the window at what is there a kind of percent of wood deterioration um that triggers allowing replacement under the guideline or is that still a fairly subjective it's very subjective uh we need to see you know so it's more than 50 of it gone usually um and in locations that make it very difficult to repair because i do think the one thing that is challenging is if on the on the south broadway elevation two of the three windows can stay and one needs to be replaced that that may be some flexibility with how those are evaluated so that there's some consistency from elevation to elevation okay let me get a direction from the staff at this point is there any of these uh conditions that we need to defer action on or can we work on all these seven and postpone to a later date the discussion about the windows uh barry you're the most familiar but i believe item obviously item one would be what you're considering to uh continue on right and then um there the items two is you know to allow the study really to occur for as the covers are taken off these things so that should be a condition of the project's approval there'll come a time you all haven't yet gotten into the how you're going to renovate the main core of the building in terms of tuck pointing and all that kind of thing you're going to need permits for that the staff's empowered to do a certain array of a list of those and certain things maybe not so um item two kind of crosses over into that broader renovation of the existing structure concept so there's nothing wrong with including it in this action but it's kind of a headbone shinbone connected problem and the the recommendation that talks about the window specs uh that would be in the addition also so we still need that correct so we're down to five and six and seven so you would retain everything except one and the the item what about three barry on the provide door window is required in place of filling historic opening i mean that's it's the one on maxwell and we have all the detail we have detail all the detail we need no we do not we need to well yeah we need to uh review that should this read provide door or window details as required excuse me and number three provide door or window detail detail as required is that what you want yep okay it's required so um let me back up for a quick second is this going to behoove anything to not continue this whole application or you're not going to start anything in the next few weeks are you um well i'd like to we'd like to get our coa our conditional use permit next week and then well quickly i want to go ahead and then quickly get a building permit if we can at least get a demo permit to begin work and taking the t111 off and see what we have well you don't need a demolition permit to remove your t111 per se you will need a demolition permit for any rare additions and that kind of thing we can counsel you all about the nuances of that at another moment okay we won't take the board's time uh postpone out two weeks but your windows situation it it certainly won't be when it's continued if it's is continued it'll be two more weeks before the board meets again so anything tied to those windows isn't going to be able to proceed for a minimum of two weeks from the permit process um and i just want to be careful that the board is not approving some things in a rather unknown manner tied to other openings and such because really when you're starting your removal of your t111 on all openings a lot of things are going to be learned about this building that are going to affect how you're going to cope with it and hence what your permits need to reflect so it's a slippery slope we're on a little bit of a can we can i have a motion to continue this to october 23rd the whole thing october 23rd no is that right yeah we're on the night out to the 23rd i can't hear you the whole thing the whole thing yes let's go ahead and continue the whole thing talk over as a practical matter you can move forward with your other permits you don't need the coa to get those yes he does you can't have your it's somewhat helpful to have some sort of approval from the except for that there's no anything well we can prove three four five six and seven i guess we can uh we can bury while they're talking this does their roof plan have issues could they get a permit for a roof it's not that simple unfortunately i see it needs details all right roof is uh the metal roof on the addition oh it's not the main roof it's not the main you haven't applied yet for the main roof i think truthfully a little more organizational focus on this is going to be necessary to get all the different pieces in an order that's going to help you and we do want to help you so we'll be glad to work with you and get this all kind of compartmentalized so that you're on a path to get your permits exactly mr chairman i move to postpone case number 02510402-b at 402 south broadway two weeks until what was it 23rd october 23rd yes thank you do i have a second second all right all in further discussion on the motion if not chair calls question all those in favor of the motion to postpone or to continue until october 23rd say uh say aye aye those name motion passes and thank you for your time all right uh we're now to our application at finn castle finn castle i will suggest we do a couple things and come on up and i apologize that we're in a time crunch but we don't have a quorum after 6 15 that's correct so let me suggest that we do this much let's go ahead and take up your uh install the solar paddles okay okay so at least get that one approved okay all right so i believe they have recommended approval uh subject to the only i'm let me call let's start over i'm calling to order now the matter of 10 12 10 14 finn castle road case number 07041012-c it's the last application before you get to the morale applicant please identify yourself my name is jill farfan architect with pole rosapole thank you miss farfan and thank you for your indulgence and i apologize that no problem we're crunched for time with respect to this application the staff has recommended approval subject to a one substantive uh provision that any increase in the height shall be submitted to staff for review and approval prior to the start of work yes i understand yes okay all right any questions or observations from the board members all right then i think we're ready for a motion chair related to case number 07041012-c at 10 12 10 14 finn castle road um i recommend acceptance of the staff's recommendation of approval with the following conditions number one any increase in height shall be submitted to staff for review and approval prior to the start of work and number two and three are the standard conditions all right do you have a second second all those in favor of the motion say aye aye opposed nay the motion passes we at least got your solar panels done great that's wonderful thank you okay now with respect to the 10 12 10 14 finn castle road um hang on case number 07041012-b i think we have recommended approval most of your project there is were hung up on the canopy yes i'm not sure we'll have time to hear your canopy argument unless you want to just give up on that particular point well i do semi want to give up on that particular point i'm trying to make it easy today and we've re-evaluated the side canopy and both of the mike our clients have decided to let that go and keep the existing canopy on the side and there's a slight change to the canopy in the rear that i'd like to show you today and i brought electronic file we have time for that we could just amelia in about three sentences just give the what we're doing and then you could do your thing sure thing yeah of course we heard this at the conceptual review last time and um in um and can actually if we can go real quick this is i'm just going to go right to the proposal that the applicant has presented and um sorry as we can see this is um per the board's discussion about the greenhouse plus the panels over the the two nude windows in this location this is the element that they've decided not to pursue in this is per the discussion of course this is also the element but you can sort of see in the foreground here the proposed deck and um as as long as well as the stairs that we're going to be in this location okay so quickly um guidelines are included for your reference and typically i have to read all of this in the record but um so of course the front stairs and the proposal to add a new staircase system off the west porch leaning out the driveways within the guidelines doesn't create a false sense of history nor does it change the building it is in guidelines 2b1f the site work as far as a proposal to install a new gate fence and patio is in with guidelines and patios of 2a1a and which also fencing 3 1d and driveways 3 5b and those guidelines are included there and then of course the rear south elevation the proposal to install a new deck with railing and new greenhouse addition atop the deck any windows openings within the guidelines proposal is a contemporary approach which is in with guidelines design principles for new building primary buildings which is in that guideline is included in the record their guidelines it also is in guidelines 2a1a g and 2a4a and d regarding decks and additions and hold on one second yes of course and of course there was discussion about the west side about the canopy and retaining the canopy it's already been resolved it's all resolved and and i think the recommendation staffer recommends approval with the following conditions final details of the windows and doors prior to issuance of coa any changes are made that alter the information submitted to resubmit the changes to staff for review approval prior to starting work once reviewed for any lvc divisions any changes come back and return to staff for board for review and prior to any work and staff recommends denial of the removal of the canopy on the side door and of course and the applicant's here and she's going to show us some new plans actually may i just mention while you're changing the mic if you as the applicant would withdraw the portion of the application that is to do with the historic canopy on the driveway side okay that will take care of that okay how do we just verbalize that okay you're representing the owner or withdrawing right the applicant does remove the request to remove the side canopy okay now i have a question where are we withdrawal withdrawal where are we with respect to the so-called modern canopy because i didn't that means there would not be any change on the driveway side so that moves out that issue it moves that issue all right very good yeah so these these are new this is a new sheet a 3.2 to the drawing set that we have revised you can see that the side canopy is shown in the 3d rendering to remain so we officially withdraw that request there is a slight change to the back um canopy that just continues to extend out yeah exactly yeah to that area which actually serves the client much better it gives them a nice covered area and um kind of solves a lot of things so and thank you because you show this is where the process works i i like the changes very much great thank you in many ways much simpler and more straightforward very clear what the addition and new work is and really respectful of the house very nicely done yeah architect and owner did not disagree with the comments from staff so um we're much happier with this as well and for future reference just to save you some time if this happens to you and you've already said we're you know changing everything so that we don't have to have a long conversation right give the staff heads up oh i would have gone ahead and taken you ahead of that long it was a little bit last minute but we will do that next time yeah all right any just further discussion about the application then do you have any comments from the audience yeah i just want to make one quick comment this is how the process can work and i think can work to the benefit of all so chair is ready for a motion mr chairman uh i move to approve the application for a certificate of appropriateness on case number 07041012-b at 1012 and 1014 fincastle road with the following conditions uh noted that the applicant has removed the request for the to remove the canopy um the following conditions are that final details number one that final details and windows and doors be provided be provided prior to the issuance of a coa and uh conditions two and three are standard conditions okay i do have a second second any other discussion about the motion if not chair we'll call the question all those in favor say aye opposed nay motion passes thank you thank you so much appreciate it all right thank you you're going back to face standard conditions one two nothing never mind all right uh you can do that we don't have any never mind we'll we'll talk to her do we have minutes today no okay any further any i'd like to note for the record that we have a postponement of the 601 boonesborough avenue project the case number 02140601-g we don't have to do a motion do we yes please all right uh i have lost my agenda it's postponed to postpone 23 do i have a motion to effect until october 23 yeah do i have a motion to effect second second uh motion passes and we're postponed till the 23rd of october any other thank you all right then the chair is ready for a motion to adjourn so moved second we stand adjourned at 609 thank you so Oh If you need me, call me, no matter where you are, no matter how far. Just call my name, I'll be there in a hurry, on that you can depend and never worry.