# Planning and Public Safety Committee - November 11, 2019 > Auto-transcribed civic record · Committee · November 11, 2019 - **Permalink**: https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/meeting/4891 - **Source video**: https://lfucg.granicus.com/player/clip/4891?view_id=14&redirect=true - **Date**: 2019-11-11 - **Body**: Committee - **Last revised**: February 6, 2026 - **Length**: 17,799 words > ⚠️ **Auto-generated content.** Audio from the official Granicus video was auto-transcribed by OpenAI Whisper-1, with speaker labels folded in from Granicus closed-captioning. Structured facts were extracted with GPT-4o; the narrative summary was written by Anthropic Claude Sonnet. Speaker labels and verbatim wording may contain errors. See [methodology](https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/about/methodology) or [report a correction](mailto:editor@lexingtonky.news). --- ## Meeting Overview The Lexington-Fayette Urban County Council held a committee meeting at 1 p.m., though the specific date and presiding officer were not identified in the available records. The meeting addressed three main agenda items, including reviews of planning and development regulations, public safety planning, and party plan ordinance amendments. During the session, council members took three formal votes and heard two public comments from community members. The meeting included both informational presentations and legislative action, with the PDR Ordinance Review and Five-Year Public Safety Plan for the Fire Department serving as informational items for council consideration. The Party Plan Ordinance Amendment was the primary legislative matter that received formal approval from the committee. The meeting demonstrated the council's ongoing work in multiple areas of municipal governance, from development regulations and public safety planning to event permitting policies that affect local businesses and residents. ## Votes and Decisions The committee took action on three motions during the meeting, with two passing by voice vote and one being withdrawn. **Approval of October 8th 2019 Committee Summary** [timestamp: 00:10] The committee voted to approve the October 8th, 2019 committee summary. The motion passed by voice vote with no recorded opposition. **Disruptive Premises Ordinance** [timestamp: 02:45] Councilmember Gibbs made a motion to repeal the current Lexington area party plan and approve the new disruptive premises ordinance. The motion passed by voice vote with no recorded opposition. **Reading of Disruptive Premises Ordinance** [timestamp: 03:30] Councilmember Gibbs made an additional motion to read out the disruptive premises ordinance at the earliest convenience. However, this motion was subsequently withdrawn and no vote was taken. All votes were conducted by voice vote rather than roll call, so individual member positions were not recorded. The committee appeared to have consensus on the items that came to a vote, with no audible opposition noted for either of the motions that were voted upon. ## Public Comment The committee heard from two community members during the public comment period. **Vita Vitale Anno** [timestamp: 02:00] addressed neighborhood issues, expressing gratitude for ongoing efforts to resolve problems in the community. Anno emphasized the critical importance of maintaining collaboration between the University of Kentucky, the city, and local residents to effectively address these concerns. **Erica Moiser** [timestamp: 02:15] spoke in support of a new party ordinance under consideration. Moiser highlighted two key aspects of the proposed legislation: the importance of holding landlords accountable for tenant behavior and the need for improved communication mechanisms to prevent recurring party-related issues in neighborhoods. She expressed her backing for the ordinance as a tool to address these ongoing community concerns. Both speakers focused on neighborhood quality of life issues and the need for cooperative approaches between various stakeholders, including the university, city government, property owners, and residents. ## Contested Items The Committee meeting featured one primary contested item that generated significant debate among participants. **Disruptive Premises Ordinance** The discussion surrounding the Disruptive Premises Ordinance became heated as committee members and stakeholders raised concerns about different aspects of the proposed legislation. The central disagreement focused on landlord accountability provisions within the ordinance. Participants expressed concerns about the potential burden the ordinance would place on property owners, particularly regarding their ability to quickly remove problematic tenants. Some argued that the proposed requirements could create undue hardship for landlords who may face legal or procedural obstacles when attempting to evict tenants who engage in disruptive behavior. The debate highlighted tensions between the goal of addressing disruptive premises in communities and the practical challenges property owners might face in compliance. Committee members discussed the balance between holding landlords accountable for maintaining order at their properties while recognizing the limitations and constraints they may encounter in the eviction process. The heated nature of the discussion suggests that stakeholders held strong, differing views on how to structure the ordinance to achieve its intended public safety objectives while maintaining fairness for property owners. The specific outcome of this contentious discussion was not detailed in the available information, indicating that the matter may require further deliberation or revision before reaching resolution. *Note: Specific timestamps are not available for this contested item discussion.* ## PDR Ordinance Review Beth Overman and Gloria Martin presented updates on the PDR (Purchase of Development Rights) ordinance changes and audit findings to the committee [timestamp: 00:20]. The presentation covered several key areas of the PDR program, including modifications to board membership structure and revisions to the application processes. The speakers outlined changes that have been made to the ordinance based on recent audit findings, though specific details of these modifications were not elaborated in the available materials. The discussion focused on how the PDR program operates and the administrative improvements being implemented. Both Overman and Martin provided insights into the current state of the program and the rationale behind the proposed changes to ensure better oversight and efficiency in the development rights purchase process. This was an informational presentation, with no formal action taken by the committee. The update served to keep committee members informed about the ongoing refinements to the PDR ordinance and the program's response to audit recommendations. The PDR program is designed to preserve agricultural and rural lands by allowing property owners to sell their development rights while retaining ownership of their land, and the ordinance changes appear aimed at strengthening the program's administration and effectiveness. ## Five-Year Public Safety Plan - Fire Department [timestamp: 01:00] Chief Chilton presented the fire department's comprehensive five-year strategic plan to the committee, outlining critical areas requiring attention and investment over the coming years. The presentation focused on three primary areas of concern for the department's future operations: **Staffing Challenges** Chief Chilton addressed current and projected staffing needs, highlighting recruitment and retention issues facing the fire department. The plan identifies strategies to maintain adequate personnel levels to ensure public safety coverage. **Facility Upgrades** The five-year plan includes necessary improvements and modernization of fire department facilities. Chief Chilton outlined infrastructure needs that must be addressed to maintain operational effectiveness and provide appropriate working conditions for department personnel. **Equipment Needs** The presentation covered essential equipment acquisitions and replacements scheduled over the five-year period. This includes both routine equipment updates and major apparatus purchases necessary to maintain the department's emergency response capabilities. The agenda item was presented for informational purposes, allowing committee members to understand the fire department's long-term planning priorities and resource requirements. Chief Chilton's presentation provided the committee with a comprehensive overview of the department's strategic direction and anticipated needs through the planning period. This five-year plan serves as a roadmap for the fire department's development and helps inform future budget discussions and resource allocation decisions. The presentation ensures committee members are aware of the department's operational challenges and planned improvements to maintain effective public safety services. ## Party Plan Ordinance Amendment [timestamp: 02:30] The committee discussed proposed amendments to the party plan ordinance aimed at addressing disruptive parties in the community. Councilmember Gibbs and Commander Kurt Singer led the discussion, with a particular focus on increasing landlord accountability for problematic rental properties. The amendment discussion centered on strengthening enforcement mechanisms and establishing clearer responsibilities for property owners when their tenants host disruptive gatherings. Commander Singer provided law enforcement perspective on current challenges with party-related disturbances and how the proposed changes could improve response effectiveness. Key aspects of the proposed amendments included enhanced accountability measures for landlords whose properties repeatedly host disruptive parties. The discussion explored how property owners could be held more responsible for tenant behavior that negatively impacts neighborhood quality of life. Councilmember Gibbs emphasized the importance of balancing enforcement with practical implementation, ensuring the amended ordinance would provide law enforcement with better tools while maintaining fair standards for property owners. The committee approved moving forward with the party plan ordinance amendment, indicating support for the proposed changes to address ongoing community concerns about disruptive gatherings and their impact on residential neighborhoods. --- ## Decisions - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Approval of the October 8th 2019 committee summary - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Repeal the current Lexington area party plan and approve the new disruptive premises ordinance - **Motion** — withdrawn (0-0): Read out the disruptive premises ordinance at the earliest convenience --- ## Full transcript 1 p.m. meeting. I'll need a motion for the approval of the October 8th 2019 committee summary. Motion. Is there a second? Motion to second. Any discussion on the motion? All those in favor? Any opposed? Thank you. Now we're on number item number two the PDR ordinance review PDR internal audit and I believe we have two familiar faces Beth Overman and former council member Gloria Martin. So Ms. Overman do you want to start or Chairman Martin either or or do you want to do a dynamic duo here? Yes we'll be the dynamic duo. All righty. Welcome. Thank you for being here. Thank you. All right so we will start the background. Today's presentation or let me flip for you all. Today's presentation is a follow-up to the report given in committee earlier this year on February 5th and that's and you all probably remember that Gloria and I were both here then as well. It is and also in conjunction with the internal audit of PDR MAPR report that was issued on November 1st and is in your packet and the five ordinance changes were adopted on March 21st of this year as a result of the following simultaneous efforts and actions. Recommendations from the Rural Land Management Board's Ordinance Review Committee which was being shared by Dede Delaney former law commissioner is now being shared by Margaret Graves who was the chair of the board for the first 10 years and the internal audit of PDR published on October 5th 2018 item placed in committee by council member Scutchfield in 2017 titled comprehensive overview of the PDR program and the council's subcommittee on boards and commissions chaired by council member Ledso. So as a recap for you all the ordinance changes adopted on March 21st of this year to address the audit findings the one that addressed finding number three was to eliminate section 2613 to C which had previously stated advised that he or it is securing an independent appraisal at his expense within the next 30 days so that amendment to the ordinance essentially eliminated counter appraisals and that is because the federal program does not allow those and even if we were just using local money we want everyone to be on an even playing ground so that has been eliminated. Finding to address finding number six we created section 26-7 to say no member of the board shall submit an application offering to sell a conservation easement and eligible land while a member of the board or within one year of serving on the board and to address finding number nine we updated the language in sections 26-1 and 26-8 to clarify that the minimum acreage requirement for the purchase of an easement is 20 acres. The additional ordinance changes that were adopted in March of this year section 26-3 to G&I were updated to change names that have changed over the course of time such as Commerce Lexington and then section 26-3 to J was created per the council subcommittee on boards and commissions to add two voting seats to the Rural Land Management Board which shall be nominated by members of council. Those two seats were appointed that the two chosen were by from council member James Brown and council member Plowman and are actively serving. Section 26-3 3C was created per the council subcommittee on boards and commissions to add one non-voting seat to the Rural Land Management Board to be held by a council member and council member Masadi is holding that seat. Language was also updated throughout chapter 26 to reflect the increased number of board members and the required numbers for quorum and specific votes. All new seats to the Rural Land Management Board were appointed and confirmed in June of this year and are actively serving. So the audit findings that we are working on include finding number one regarding natural area bees. This is something that is designated in the Rural Land Management Plan that was updated by the Planning Commission in 2017 and a solution is being crafted by our Ordinance Review Committee. Finding number two one and two the lump sum payment versus payment over time is also being addressed by our Ordinance Review Committee. Number two the letter confirming completed application. That letter has been approved by our Applications and Donations Committee and is being reviewed by our Ordinance Review Committee as well. And action finding number four action required by new owners of parcels with pending PDR applications. The Applications and Donations Committee made a recommendation to our Ordinance Review Committee and after they complete their review a recommended policy will be presented to the board for adoption. And then finally number finding number five awarding points to landowners who agree to take less than appraised value for their easement. The Applications and Donations Committee has reviewed this language and made recommendations to the Ordinance Review Committee to craft a solution. And incidentally the Ordinance Review Committee is meeting tomorrow. So so our next steps the Ordinance Review Committee has scheduled monthly meetings through January 2020 to complete their work. If they are able to adhere to this timetable they should be able to present their recommendations to the Rural Land Management Board at our February or March meeting. Findings number one, number two, one, and number five may require council action if ordinance changes are deemed necessary. If all recommendations are adopted by the Rural Land Management Board without requiring further deliberations by the Ordinance Review Committee, the PDR staff and the Rural Land Management Board Chair Gloria Martin should be able to report back to this committee in early spring. And that concludes our report. Are there and we are happy to take questions. Council members have any questions of Ms. Overman or Chairman Martin at this time? I think we've got Council Member Plowman. Thank you Chair. I just want to commend the Rural Land Management Board because the new organization that's taken place, the four standing committees meet regularly. They have other folks from outside the organization and it's just a really strong organization that has been put together behind Rural Land Management Board. So Chair Martin and Beth, thank you so much because I think the efforts are really showing. Thank you Chair. Thank you. Any other questions from council members or comments? Chair Martin, maybe you talk a little about the new farm bill because I think that's pretty exciting. I'm meeting with our federal partners this coming week actually to discuss in detail. The good thing about that is there's a lot more money than used to be and now the exciting thing that we're going to talk about is if property owners donate their easements, we may use that as part of our match funding. So that would be a very positive thing. The thing that's so good about this is the federal government is and our federal partners at the NRCS office out on Herzberg Road are very happy with this program. I feel like it's very outstanding. They've used it as an example of good program elsewhere. So we have managed to reach part of our goal. The goal as you all know is 50,000 acres and we're at 30. So we still have a way to go but with the funding there and hopefully there'll be some match from here, we ought to be in really good stead all the way around. If you have any specific questions I can try to answer. I'll have lots more to offer after I meet with them next week. Very good. It looks like the slate is clear. So thank you for your presentation and we'll see you at work session. Thanks. Thank you. Next item we have is the five year public safety plan and that was put into committee by our links committee and Chief Chilton if you wouldn't mind coming forward and giving us the rundown that would be great. All right. Good afternoon. Okay. Okay. So we'll start with our key responsibilities and metrics. So as of currently right now we have 597 is our authorized personnel. We have 24 fire stations and we also have all of our bureaus which are training, inspection, investigation, community services, vehicle maintenance, building maintenance, information technology, communication, special operations, EMS, community paramedicine and supply and then our health and safety. So that's just kind of an overview of all the different areas. So year to date our incidents fire we're at 8,635 which is actually an increase of 6.5% over last year and then our EMS runs are 38,599 which as you probably heard yesterday during the press conference is a decrease from the previous year and is it's been a even more significant increase considering our runs prior to that were 8 to 9 percent higher and then since we started our community paramedicine program we've seen a decrease. So that's the first time we've seen a decrease in many many years. Just a little bit of comparison. I know we're all trying to stick to the same format that was started with E-901's presentation. So we're just kind of giving you a snapshot of where we were 20 years ago. So Lexington's population has increased by 23% since 1999. Our fire runs have increased 64% since 1999. Our EMS runs have increased by 111% since 1999 and then also currently right now we're in the process of becoming a accredited agency like just like our other public safety partners. They wanted to do a quick overview of our hiring process. Our hiring process is approximately a nine month process and that starts with the application process starting in January. We've gone to an annual process so every January we'll open the application process and it's open for about 30 days. Then there's a written test. The next phase after the written if they pass is the CPAT physical agility. There's an interview and then once they make the list for the interview after the interviews then we start the background investigation phase and that also includes the polygraph. After those two areas are completed they come to me for a selection. We make a list and then go to you all for conditional job offers and once a conditional job officer approved then they go on to their psychological written and an interview and their medical exam and a drug screen and then once they do get selected they start the Academy. There's a six month training at the Academy and then once they get out of the Academy they're still on probation for an additional year until they finish their probationary year. So as you can see our personnel it's very it's kind of hard to see it's kind of small but we have 64 captains, 70 lieutenants, 34 majors we have and 423 firefighters. Currently right now we have 15 when this was presented this was 15 but we've lost a recruit since then so we're down to 14 myself and then we have 29 civilians but currently right now we have 27 and we have two vacancies. We have a staff assistant senior that's vacant and a heavy equipment technician that's vacant. So as you can see our author our actual authorized strength has kind of gone up there's been a time or two just like currently right now with our recruits where we've got a few overhires and that's to offset the potential retirements that we're going to have in January. So far this year we've had attrition we've lost 20 people through 2019 and we're expecting another 18 to 24 in January. So I just said 20 that was including what's left now we have 64 members something to keep in mind we're kind of always trying to monitor this we have 64 members with 20 plus years of service who are eligible to retire immediately and then we have a hundred and five members that will be eligible to retire within the next five years. So as you can see there's going to be quite a turnover we've got a pretty young department so the group that has quite a bit there's gonna be a big turnover there. Things that we're always dealing with and staffing challenges to make sure all of our apparatus always they can't run without a minimum of three per apparatus. So things that always affect that where you see that we have to backfill with overtime things that really kind of bog us down sometimes are the amount of people that we have on a light duty or a modified duty people on our disability leave and then we also have on people that are on and off FMLA from time to time. So anytime we take somebody off the line and we have to put them on one of those alternate duties then that creates a opening on the line that has to be filled. We currently have 39 active members that are in the military so they're off a lot for military training they're once a month training so we have to backfill that too. And then you know there's we're always increasing in population the city's growing all the time so we're just trying to meet the needs of our growing community. And then the other staffing challenges is we're always have to be in compliance with our collective bargaining agreement. One thing I had trouble getting wrapping my head around these numbers are going to seem really large but I kept remembering that this was a five-year plan and not a one-year plan because when I started looking at this I was like oh wow but then I realized this is five years down the road so these this seems like a pretty extravagant list but when I start looking at five years that's where this all comes to play. So over the next five years where we look at we need to upgrade and do remodeling in some of our facilities we've been doing this with the suggestion of the PSSI study I'm sure many of you are very familiar with that. So with the money that's been given to us the last few years for capital improvement projects on the stations we've been going through that study and addressing the issues that were in that study. So the things we still have left that we hope to complete in the next five years are the replacement of eight station HVA systems. We're trying to get definitely more energy-efficient and we've got a few system stations that still have boilers like station one sells an old boiler and we're trying to get those more up-to-date. Replacement of four station aprons or parking lots and a lot of people ask me is that like something I wear to cook in? No that is the very thought the concrete area that's in front of all the bays that's what we refer to as an apron and then our parking lots. Four station bathroom remodeling we still have a few stations that have just one huge bathroom that's supposed to serve the whole station so now that we have you know mixed genders in a station it makes very kind of difficult when everybody's trying to share one bathroom. So we've still got four stations that we need to update. We want to add additional bay space at station nine which is on Richmond Road. We've got quite a bit of property there and we can get an additional bay space. We have frontline equipment we have that there's always if you ever go by there there's a trailer and this is a bourbon that sits outside that is frontline apparatus that carries all of our rescue dive equipment. So we there's a real need to get a lot of our frontline equipment inside out of the weather and under cover and since we have extra land there that would be a good use of adding just some bay space to keep our frontline equipment. And then we want to implement our training and vehicle maintenance studies. Last year you all approved for us to take some money and have a in-depth study done on our facility on Old Frankfort Pike for the training center and what we could do with that land. And that all kind of started with the trail was getting ready to come down or is going to be coming down the front of Old Frankfort Pike. So it's going to take a little bit of our road frontage and then impact our training slightly. So at one point we looked at doing a big bathroom project there. We have no place currently for our fire recruits after PT or even after our day out on the out on the training grounds for them to come in and take a shower. We have no shower facilities. So this plan came out from us and putting out a bid that came in just absolutely astronomically high. So we decided to back up a little bit instead of spending a whole bunch of money on something that we thought was that would it would help us but long term and not might not be the best use of our money. So we took some of that money and we did we implemented to do training and vehicle maintenance facility plan. So that's what this top folder is here. It's about that thick. It's very detailed and it just says that where they foresee us needing to go if we decide to build a new training facility and move our vehicle maintenance facility that's at station one out to Moorland. And it's pretty significant price tag to it so I don't want to give you too much sticker shock there but it is broken down into smaller concepts so we can make sure you all get a copy of that if you want to see or you can ask questions at the end. And then additional administration of administrative space. We still have all of our main offices are at station one on 3rd Street which everybody knows was built in 19 or probably know those built in 1929 and we are absolutely busting at the seams. That's our vehicle maintenance, our health and safety, our gear, all of our supplies, everything runs out of our facility there on station one and we are absolutely running out of space. IT and radio concerns. Our Zetron station alerting system it's called we call our Zetron system is what alerts if you've ever been a station you hear that beep beep beep beep it sets the tones off at the station automatically when you know one hits the key to dispatch certain units it automatically sends a signal and dispatches those companies. Our system is 20 plus years old and it really needs to be updated with the new CAD coming in there's a whole lot of new technology that goes around with an alerting system. We've completed an RFI just to see approximately what it's going to cost. It depends what system we go with but we're looking at anywhere from 650 to 1.2 million but that was just initial just kind of rough estimate quotes so obviously we get close to that it would all go out to bid and all that kind of thing but right now that's just kind of a throw it out there. Our portable radios even though it seems like we got them not too long ago the problem with all this new technology just like our phones after so many years get they tell you guess what we're shutting you off it's not going to be supported anymore so we've got about four more years 2023 is when they say that they're going to stop supporting our current radios that are portable radios that we're carrying and that's I don't want to make this a joke but it seems like everything has about a million dollar price tag because that's about what they're saying on that one too. Initial replacement of our mobile data terminals on all of our front-end apparatuses we've been on a five-year replacement cycle trying to just replace a few of them and kind of turn them over but it's going to get the same thing our portable radios at a certain time those computers that we've been using that model is the life of them is somewhat just going to be over with and software maintenance fees that's another area where the more stuff we have and the more programs we have and the more things we're running those those yearly software maintenance fees continue to go up right now they're running us about a hundred and twenty thousand dollars a year. So our capital forecast over the next five years is things we want to work on or try to accomplish is station 25, station 26, and station 27 land acquisition. So those areas are the Polo Club or Hamburg area, Nicholsville Road and Man o' War and Richmond Road and somewhere in the Jacobson Park area are the next three areas where we foresee that there's going to be growth that right now we have areas that are not covered. Under personal protective equipment we have a current our current PPE is around twenty eight hundred and fifty dollars a set and that's what it runs now and that contract will expire in two years so then we'll put it out to bid again and we'll see what that new contract price is but when you have six hundred people that twenty eight hundred dollars a person adds up pretty quick and we everybody has to have a new set every ten years and we try to some of our companies have to have it more more than ten years just because of the wear and tear on it. One thing that that I didn't put in here because we didn't have the official acknowledgement yet but we did apply for a two million dollar grant this year to potentially to replace our self-contained breeding apparatus we were just told since this presentation was done that we did not receive that grant that was our second year applying for that grant so we're hoping maybe next year you know three times three times as a charm so we're hoping keep our fingers crossed that we will reapply for that next year and potentially we will get that that's a two billion dollar they were what we asked for two million dollars but that's actually about a three billion dollar project and our SCBA's are two years two cycles out of NFPA compliance and we it's to the point where we can't even get parts we bought some used ones from some other vendors just to get us through to hopefully when we can get all brand new ones and they have to be turned have to be switched out all at the same time so our fleet replacement program that's something we usually turn in with our budget and also when we come to the link usually we always have a copy of that for y'all to review and and this is the one that's kind of shocking but when you look at the police fleet replacement program and how it's all lined out it makes sense but in the next five years we look at purchasing 16 engines five ladder trucks three EC units six EC unit remounts if you remember we've had that conversation that the remounts or we just replace the cabin chassis but the box part of the ambulance we can reuse so that decreases the price pretty significantly to brush trucks one mobile air truck and then one command post and then we also have hang on right there chief can someone give the chief an extra five minutes because we I think you've got another page yeah it should be pretty quick go ahead and then there's the light fleet replacement we have 78 vehicles in the fleet and approximately 19 to 20 of them over have over a hundred thousand miles on them currently personnel requests for every new apparatus we add whether it's starting a new station or add another EC unit that takes 12 firefighters it's minimum of three per shift and that extra one has to be the extra to cover all the benefit time and in time off that the firefighters get for our vehicle maintenance Bureau we would like to work toward getting a fleet manager and then a fleet parts specialist senior and that would kind of be the same thing that goes on in regular fleet for the rest of the city IT communications and these are all these are civilian positions one data and Alan analyst one radio technician and then one data programmer and then our sworn people support staff is one additional staff officer a fire inspector for community service support staff and then for community paramedicine persons and then administration support staff is one insurance coordinator and that would be for for EMS runs only are there any questions Thank You chief any council members have any questions or comments with chief Chilton in the five-year plan council member Worley thank you chair chief thanks for the presentation pretty detailed a lot for us to take into consideration I just want to tell you I think that you are doing a great job with efficiencies and trying to make things work that may be a little outdated and had the pleasure about two weeks ago Italian chief Bittner tour gave me a tour of the maintenance facility over at station one and where the way you all had to move things around and adapt and adjust I think it that was very visible to me after seeing that and seeing this presentation that you all need some some additional room and we need to think about that but I was really really really really impressed with how things will run over there and and and what you all are doing with what you have so thank you for the presentation and to chief Bittner for giving me the tour thank you councilmember Plowman thank you chair chief I had a question I don't know if this is relevant to each other but with the population increase 23% since 1999 and the incidence 64% is there any ratio or is that just kind of what happens as far as why it increased that much well with it so just yeah obviously the more population the more incidents we're gonna have as we continue to grow we're just gonna get busier okay and then I had another question on the well the very back page when you talk about personnel request so it looks like when you have 12 fighter firefighters per added apparatus is that per truck that's per truck so how many more would that be is that just that's what it's 12 because we have three shifts okay so it's it's three per for poor shift okay that makes sense yeah but those are not there right now they're gonna be added that's anytime we would add an app so if we open station 25 and we put a new engine in there just like we did at station 24 that would add 12 firefighters or if you put a new EC unit on duty that would add 12 firefighters okay and just a comment on on fire station 25 because that's a lot of that's the district 12 some of its district well it's not councilmember Evans councilmember Worley but it's popping at the seams and when you talked about you're looking at location with do you know yet if that's going to go down old Polo Club we don't have a designated location yet that's one of the things that we would be looking for some good locations it's like I said it's an explosion exploding Nicholasville and Manor Ward there's hardly nothing there anymore except for the UK farm and then Richmond Road you know there's still a tow I don't you know there's in that area you know there is some land there still but those other two they're they're getting it's kind of like Masterson station you know it built up so fast and you know luckily we were allowed to get the lock that we did but it's on the radar screen and within the next five years I hope so all right thanks chief good job good presentation appreciate it councilmember lamb Thank You chair Thank You chief for this presentation this is oftentimes so telling about not just for us but for the public so that they can learn so much about what we do in the community and your all services on the personnel side on slide 49 you talked about the two vacant civilian positions the staff assistant senior and they have equipment technician of those been to that you've been holding off on filling or are they just vacant currently right now are you planning on filling those we are our heavy vehicle technician that this vacancy created just went to our last recruit class that just started so that created that and it just the advertising just closed for that position so it it has been advertised and it just closed so that one will be filled the staff assistant became vacant when we had administrative specialists so that person got to move up so that created that vacancy so we're either going to fill that spot or there's been talk about trying to maybe convert it to that part that part specialist person okay okay the the heavy equipment technician you just were speaking did you have any excuse me did you have any trouble recruiting for that I know we've talked about that the problem out at fleet I don't know because they have to put they had a position open and we had a position open at the same time and I haven't seen the list all right well hopefully the changes we made with those type of positions will be of help so I appreciate this and it's really nice to know what we're looking at five years out the road and you know we've got a lot going on and especially in our public safety arena it's very important and I have to say I like to see the decrease in the the EMS incidents and I'm anxious to see with the with our paramedicine program how that is going to continue to help and alleviate the trips to certain populations so thank you since we were very excited about the partnership we think that's yes great going forward yes I'm very pleased about that too so thank you so much thank you chair councilmember Maloney thank you sure I'm not on this committee appreciate you knowledge to me the question I have is something been going back to these old-time questions up the list on section I mean station 25 26 and 27 long before the polo club came long before Masterson station came councilmember Zotti and councilmember land district has always had needed a fire station out there for many years and they went out of Mac then I how do they manage to keep dropping down the list I mean I always thought they I mean I thought they were they were next on the list before the polio because this part they maxed out out there many years ago well I'm where are we talking about that when I was because before you form a cheap a couple of them before me came to me is when I when I had we're talking about stations and all that and I remember they were talking about the Masterson station and then they kept telling me how bad everything is on down on Nicholasville road where they don't know nothing real close by and they got it and it's been on the list for many years and it seems like to me that should have been fixed long before these subdivisions that are coming on now they've already been there and I just don't like what I'm trying to figure out how you don't put that top of the list because you've been wanting to put one out there for many years and now we continue speaking of Nicholsville and Manowar we would love to have been top number one on the list the problem is that there's absolutely no land available in that area yeah I know we had we just swap a deal with University Kentucky where we gave them roads and we got this land here I mean in UK had the biggest property out there and to me I just it just seems like to me we should have fixed this problem a long time ago and I'm not trying to be I mean we just got start thinking this I've seen this problem for many years and and I just wanted and I'm not talking it's not your fault I just seemed like to me the merit put this ministration thought I think it should be a communication with the University of Kentucky that I should have had ten years ago and this because they're about out of land over there I mean but they do need a fire station out there and I just it just amazes me when I keep seeing them I always thought they would be ahead of everybody else but it's for some reason new development is overriding old developments and always needed it so I just try to figure out how your parties get ahead of it forget about the land that just to me it seems like to me that should have been I think it takes it gets that priority because that's where we look at right now that there potentially might be land available which if we wait ten more years it'll be like Nicholasville and Man o' War now the Richmond Road I can understand you can put it on Jacobson Park I mean that's an easy fix there and that's going to be the next big development going out that way eventually with the school going in and then I understand the polio polo club and all that but I just think there's so much potential with you working with University the last five years that we should have been on board with them and got just one little and that also helped their property what they ever try to sell it because they have a fire station there because it helped their insurance helps everybody's insurance and the quality of life out there so I just just get tired of seeing people certain people get bumped down and then it's not you but I understand where you're coming from thank you councilmember James Brown thank you chair thank you chief for the presentation I think our thought as a link was you know as we discussed budget priorities if you know it would be beneficial to us to know the direction that our divisions were going and what potential future budget recommendations are asked may be out there going forward now was this five-year plan were you already kind of doing this already did you have a vision for what the department may need in years to come or or was this something new and beneficial no we have a lot of this stuff already in place because our fleet fleet replacement plan which was part of the it's it goes out many years and then also all of our capital projects every year when we budget we go out several years so a lot of this stuff has been part of our budget in prior years okay okay and I and yeah and I think it's good that you are already planning that far in advance but I think just think it'd be beneficial for council to kind of know the direction that some of the budget needs that that you already foresee coming forward I don't know I stepped out of the room and excuse me if I ask you some questions that you you might already answered but the new station I know part of the plan is to look for land acquisition but do you think that a new fire station is outside of that five-year time span that is something that we may look to need in 10 years I would say building the actual station and having it done in five years is probably just because of the way it take time that it takes by the time you purchase the land you get drawings you implement it and by the time the station would be built it I would not foresee it to be up and running in five years okay and then this is a question that you may not answer or may not be able to answer when we're talking about response time the way our city's growing and responded to calls is there anybody in your shop that's looking at potential road connections that could enhance response time I know we have some neighborhoods to have that dead in streets I don't think they were ever designed to always be dead in streets but if those connections were made could that enhance response time for police and fire and that's maybe that's one of the ways we need to start looking at improving response time is making some of these road connections that that we haven't yet made is anybody in your shop looking at that I don't know if they're looking at particular ones but you know all of our responses are done by GPS so they're going to track what the closest route is and it's if there's a dead in street obviously it's going to route them around that so if they removed that dead in street if but we don't know really where maybe it's going to connect to that would all be depending on where it was that it is dead in was connected to but we definitely if we had some ideas on that we can definitely run those statistics and tell you you know how much that might shorten the response times yeah and I and I just kind of throw that out as an idea that that may be something that we start looking at instead of increasing you know apparatuses and in increasing the number of firefighters and fire stations maybe we look at improving routes and connectability that would make our city safer and potentially cost less in the in the in the end the other thing the other thing is the paramedicine program is that it is that in fires budget is that whole program the paramedics in the the paramedicine program is that something that's within your budget or is that a standalone but it was put into our budget through the money that the hospitals gave us was given to us last a grant so it's actually three different lines that will go into our budget okay for personnel okay one of my concerns this year when it became a budget question about whether or not it was going to get funded is there's a there's a huge cost savings that comes with that and I think just looking at that program on its own and not tying it to the the cost savings that it provided the city I think is a mistake and something that could get lost in future years as we talk about that program so I just think it ought to be just be mindful that when presenting that it it'd be useful and convenient for us to know that there's a cost saving component it may cost this but you know we're saving this in the long run going forward the only other thing that I'll mention kind of tied to what councilmember Maloney the point that he was making is a lot of times and I don't know if it's a mechanism in our planning department or or what but I know when neighborhoods are being developed I think a lot of times I don't know if it's a requirement from us or the developers either donate or identify land to be designated for a school to be built I know in several developments school land was identified early on so they just kind of built around it I wonder if if we have something in place and then probably the only place that it would be applicable now is in the expansion areas that have been identified is there a safety component to say that if you know this many households get developed or built then we need to identify land for a fire department or a fire station and I don't know if that's something that exists or something that we need to put into place it doesn't exist now but we would love to have a seat at the table with those discussions okay I'm sure that falls within planning and we're we're not involved in that part as far as mandating land for certain services like that okay well I'm out of time thank you for you thank you for your response in the presentation thank you chair councilmember blood so thank you chair thank you chief your presentation like everyone has mentioned I think it's very interesting and helpful to get a long-term projection about capital costs and personnel costs I find the personal the personnel data very interesting how much what do you think is a fire recruits not recruiting enough and staying on dropping out or is it more retirees the difference between your force which is your biggest challenge in the next few years retirements retirements that's what I was assuming you would say so when you to do that are you are you looking to be to build up your command staff experience Lee are you going to expand your recruit options in the next few years first or second let me ask a different question yeah so if that's happening coming and you can't predict it right very well in advance are you going to go ahead and start some over hires or thinking about expanding your base entry we hit we did in this last class this last one yes you're gonna continue that trend the next it's all but it all depends on the budget but we've tried to do that because if we have extra people going into a few extra people going in these recruits will not be out till February our retirements take effect in January but that'll still be a lot less laps to replace some of those positions that Jake that leave in January if we had all those positions open in January and we didn't hire till January then we'll have six months of shortage of those positions and then that all has to be filled with backfill so even though we hired a few extra on the front end it should pay off in the back end that's right that's what I thought you were doing I was just making sure that I wasn't mean into that too much and then I didn't see in the last couple years overtime is something we've talked about a lot and several years ago it was a much bigger problem than it seems like it has been recently do you see that as a trend in budgeting where your your overtime costs aren't what they used to be that you're I want to handle it better but putting better functions it all depends on when we hire that's that's where most of that overtime is generated from other than as you saw the light duties disabilities military FMLA we get that generates we normally have anywhere from 15 to 25 20 people on disability modified duty FMLA so that take if you think about that divided by three that's almost you know a company or two a day just from that those types of leaves and then on the weekends a lot of times we have a lot more than that due to the military sure but it's just so hard to predict just like right now we were predicting we really thought we were going to lose like 17 people and we've been asking and asking asking about who's leaving because we're trying to plan for this class and then we got a list the other day from the pension office that had six people on it we didn't have any idea about so they don't really want to come before it's coming and give us a lot of warning about them leaving so sometimes we're on the you know the back end of that so if we have a huge retirement like it's probably been 10 years or so we had like 55 people that left in January that was a huge loss at one time so this year we're looking at 20 to 25 and I would say next year we're looking at probably even more than that 20 to 30 so we just need to make sure that we stay a little bit ahead of that because we have to go a whole six months while they're in recruit training to fill those voids that's where we get into this overtime issue yeah especially hard to predict it on our side too it's very frustrating to find money for overtime different places on this side of it too so I appreciate that and I just want to follow briefly my last moment with customer James's point about connectivity which is I would agree with you that it often helps but I would say most of my neighborhood don't want more connectivity and so it's a battle at every neighborhood meeting where you know one neighborhood wants it and one does not and while it might make sense for reduced travel times or I know fire loses a lot of those battles in planning and I just wanted to make that comment but it's it's a it's a double-edged sword so thanks for your service appreciate it councilmember lamb thanks I just thought of one other question since my part of my neighborhood abuts or is next to a hospital which we're always grateful to have hospitals and EMS units to take the quickest routes and I'm sure that fire always tries to take take the quickest routes I would just like to have this opportunity to ask you with an EMS unit what are you all required to do are you required to take the quickest route if you can't take the quickest route what happens this is just something that always has been I've had numerous questions and conversations and this is the back roads going into central how could you tell well I think we just saw the day that I guess traffic calming is being considered for yes over yes but that's really not our direct that's not the main route that we used to get to that but it's it's the quickest route we can get to the hospital is normally what we use and there's really no that little shortcut coming from the Tate's Creek area through there and through that back is is a whole lot quicker than trying to go all the way to Nicholasville Road and you know coming all the way around right so it's just what you know they'll try to go the quickest route they can sure and and then I explained it to the neighbors that if I were in that EMS buggy I would want to be on the quickest route if your family member was in there but if you live on the route you don't always appreciate it until you have to be in the buggy and be the one being needing to be in the hospital in less than two minutes or so but I do appreciate that and you know I know with all of the firefighters that I've spoken to and all of your staff everybody's always been wonderful and to talk to the neighbors and to explain things and at the end of the day I think the difference is is if you're in the buggy you want something different than if you live on the street that they're traveling on so I appreciate appreciate that very much thank you councilmember Maloney I just want to make one comment you got a great staff I had to use your service a couple weeks ago thank you the top of the line I appreciate it and some of my colleagues help you all out a little bit too so thank you I'll pass that along chief before you leave I remember I and you weren't chief then but I think maybe three or four years ago we had a consultant come in and talked about consolidation of fire stations I believe councilmember Lane that was his under his purview did you weave that into this presentation at all because I remember how we were talking about closing some down and just basically the consolidation is this part of this five-year plan or not it is not and I can go into detail about that but that was actually that was actually part of the PSSI study one of the recommendations was to move station 7 which is right there in Lansdowne that they wanted to move it in town one mile so when you look at what's it going to call well first of all land on taste Creek Road and then is it really worth moving it like one one road over then there was a discussion about closing station but in order to close station 12 which is Southland Drive we had to move station 7 so it was kind of like we could close this but we have to pick this station up and move it here and then we can adjust this so it's kind of like a moving puzzle pieces and when you look at the cost of that versus you know when you start moving a station to close the station and then moving this station to have them all equally placed it's it's a decision that you know we talked about it with administration and I'm not sure you get that much value when you look at all of it that you're going to put into it for my secretary to say the other the other example was combining station 3 and station 4 which is Marino and then since that discussion we've added an EC unit there so now that's actually a two-company house and then engine 4 is Jefferson Street and they talked about consolidating that which you could do there's an engine there there's a rescue and there's an EC unit to one station in between those two areas so you look at Marino and you look at Jefferson and finding land that somewhere around Main Street and Oliver Lewis Way is what their suggestion was somewhere right like where the Salvation Army is about halfway so it all comes down to what we talked about a few minutes ago with property if property is available if it's affordable and we can build a new station to offset the two existing ones but it's still in the big scheme of thing cost a lot of money okay so based on that study or that consultants survey or whatever did we take anything from that besides the the geographical locations anything that they had come forward with have we all lived yes all the improvements that we've done over the last several years have all come from that study they went to every individual station they looked at the the condition of the building they looked at our facilities there they looked at HVAC they looked at all of those things and they every single station has an assessment and that's the projects where you saw here where I said we were needed to replace the HVAC units aprons parking lots that's all the stuff that we've worked on the last three or four years with the capital improvement money that we've had is to go individual station by station and get those stations up to where they were they we had several that had you know they were rotting because we had leaking roofs we had you know a lot of old boiler systems that are not energy efficient things like that so that's the projects that we've worked on and that was all part of that same study okay very good so other than the land acquisition you pretty much followed what they had offered or yes we have okay anything else that we need to be aware of that we may not know that as far as anything in this report not that I can think of you know we'll be turning in our capital projects capital stuff here in the next couple of months but I don't there won't it'll be somewhat similar to the same things you're seeing here and then now I see that mr. Duncan's in the office I think the idea of sitting down with the planning is it has merit I mean obviously if you're going to have a big subdivision going out and you're going to require a school the time to buy the land is that the initial part not when it's being developed or past that stage when it becomes more expensive so I would suggest that would be a great time to meet with mr. Duncan and say this is these are some of our concerns and this is where we think we need some stations because again I mean to backtrack I mean as you said you know where you can get the land now so I appreciate you coming by and any other questions from council members it's not thank you very much chief thank you all the next item on the agenda is the party pan I'm sorry party plan ordinance amendment and that's councilmember Gibbs so I'll turn that over to you councilmember thank you chair let me run over the plan a little bit I'm gonna have a PowerPoint presentation I'm going to do the first four slides and I'm going to hand it over to commander Kurt Sanger of the police and then after that we're gonna have a little bit of public comment I've two citizens here who've had lots of parties inflicted upon them I could have lined up dozens of people actually but we wanted to keep it relatively short for you folks and then we'll open it to questions and comments but Tommy I'm gonna go ahead just move it up there okay let's see so yeah I'm gonna start it tell me if I can make how do you make the same move there goes I think I'm technically challenged thank you Chris and show me hey I'll start off here you know we're talking about is a disruptive that one okay it was what was called a party plan on the books when I took over and it's been tremendously ineffective and so we've worked on to try to come up with another plan a lot of work has gone into this over the last several months by my aide Sally Lambert commander Kurt Singer Commissioner Armstrong the law department have all put in lots and lots of hours I'm trying to find a way to you know real in disruptive parties we're not anti party we're just anti disruptive parties the plan that we're going to present to you today has widespread support you know obviously the police supported or they wouldn't be here it's okay with the law department UK administration has sent us a letter of support they would like to see us help help us rein in disruptive parties on their off-campus off-campus the Ailsford Police Neighbors Association is on board and lots of individual citizens two of whom are here to speak today so this first slide is just some excerpts from emails that I've gotten over the years and I'm not going to read all of them but just you know they mentioned things like what do we have here quite first one quite frankly my tenants are scared to death these tenants are stating it's like a riot the second one starts out saying drunks have terrorized my neighborhood and then on and on and on the third one starts out there was another Routes party at 328 complete with lots of underage drinkers these are just some of the you know some of the highlights of some emails there's also the phone calls which I don't have recorded where you know people from University Avenue call me on a Saturday football game day frightened because their house is literally vibrating you know I get people from calls with there's a party down the street and there's people from the party who are naked into my backyard I mean it's just the stuff that we get is just really pretty unbelievable so let's see you tell me to hit the next one will you I flunked AV when I was doing my teacher training we'll give you a couple more minutes since you're having technical difficulties so at any rate you know when they're at these parties there are lots of ordinances that are being violated the noise ordinance disorder disorderly conduct a minor in position of alcohol on a lawful transaction with a minor which most typically is providing an alcohol with a minor with alcohol either selling it to him or given to them and so again we're trying to work with police and law to come up with a better way to do it and I think we might be able to help to rein in the party culture and the party culture you know if we can reign that in it's going to cut down on a lot of problems or probably cut down eventually on a number of citations that go to students which you know could negatively affect their lives in the future we have a fair amount of evidence and these from this second two bullets on this page here I think I got the right page now can this next slide Chris the second two bullets here are pretty interesting this was supplied to us by the University of Kentucky it's a little bit in some sense damning of the University because I'm not the Kentucky itself but the how their students behave the off-campus drinking rate for UK students is thirty six point five percent the national average is only twenty three point three percent same study found out that thirty six point five percent of the off-campus drinking that occurred at residences rather than the bar the club so we've got a hell of a lot of drinking going on in neighborhoods and again parties aren't necessarily bad but there's some bad parties you know in the report from UK says next page please thanks thank you thank you for the assistance you know that top bullet said again this from UK it appears much underage drinking occurs at house parties and is high risk in many instances and so if we could start and commander Kurtzinger is going to explain this but if we can start writing citations for these four ordinances the drunken disorderly and so on we've come up with the mechanism to put a lot of pressure on the landlords to clean up the behavior of their students or the renters now by the way this is not necessarily just about students we can't write an ordinance just about the UK area but you know from you you folks may have disruptive parties in your districts I don't know I do I know I do have them and the best preponderance is in it is in the UK area and so with that I'm going to hand it over to commander Kurtzinger hello if you can go to the next slide you had that much problem with that corner I know I will good afternoon everybody current ordinances on enforcement issues make sure we got the right slide here okay 2001 was the was when this ordinance was originally passed since then it's been met with some some success I believe early on all this enforcement action goes on prior to prior to my recollection I've been on 25 years but I wasn't heavily involved with the enforcement of this back in 2001 just some preliminary data that I did receive was that like a 2003 2004 was the bulk of the citations that were issued for these or for this ordinance believe we had 23 issued in 2003 and maybe a dozen or so in 2004 beyond that it was pretty pretty thin as far as the activity we were able to produce with it it was really designed to hold landlords accountable for those properties and specifically a dwelling unit of residence that generates that had generated at least two enforcement actions or citations were issued or arrests made within a one-year time period that was the focus and that was how the the party plan was written once two enforcement actions occurred convictions obtained which is an important part of that the property was designated as a quote-unquote no party property and if there were further disturbance at that disturbances at that property then the the property owner would then receive a criminal citation and be subject to fine but like I said over the course of the the life of that ordinance we only utilize it 41 times and there's some reasons for that which I'll get into later information from my predecessors and from my own personal experiences the courts were not they were not overly enthusiastic about this ordinance many of those got dismissed and also you're talking about criminal activity so just because an officer cites or arrested someone at one of these locations didn't necessarily mean that anyone has ever convicted the person it could have got dismissed in court could have been sent to diversion or sometimes time was on the side of the people who lived there by the time the citation was issued it made it through its courts got dismissed whatever action is taken the student had by that time or I'll say student or occupant of the house had already moved on to another location so it was just always hard to keep track of exactly what situation was but regardless of all those issues if we were still there the police were still getting called the neighbors were having issues and we were still responding so there obviously was some issue there regardless of whatever happened to the criminal case that that we brought so that brings us to the solution possible solutions to this the biggest thing is landlord accountability we feel that's vitally important we've had great success with the nuisance ordinance because of the landlord account accountability component of that and that's kind of what that's kind of what councilmember Gibbs started when taking a look at this and see why see how we could strengthen our enforcement efforts in this area the two big differences with this revised ordinance that it's only premise ordinance doesn't require convictions to trigger actions against the landlord so if an officer goes he responds issues a citation or makes an arrest of location regardless of how that's handled in the court however much time that takes this civil allows us to go ahead and take action on it from our standpoint and get the ball rolling towards finding a remedy to the problem location and again secondly it's not criminal it's a civil it'd be a civil citation civil fines that would be levied against the land or the property owner again talk about efficiency we lose them I mean just think about it some of these criminal cases and citations could go on for literally two three four months or longer so if those got overturned we have to take a step back reevaluate what's going on at the property by making it civil we just keep rolling with with with our enforcement efforts in the civil process and also by identifying the specific RCO I say RCO the code of ordinance for in this instance a noise ordinance violation and the other KRS violations the landlord can actually make that part of their lease agreement is that these violations of these specific laws and ordinance that's going to be problematic for the for the person who rents from that they know going into it that if I do this I can be evicted so just much like we've had with the nuisance ordinance and our crime-free multi-housing efforts by landlord strengthening their lease agreements it helps them enforce the code of conduct they want their tenants to be and honestly helps take it off of law enforcement to always be the heavy hand on that and again council member gives me mention of it we are not the anti-party police we don't want to be seen as that and truly social gatherings of any nature are fine it's just a disruptive behavior that comes from some of those larger parties that is the issue so I believe that this disruptive premises ordinance kind of brings that more into line with what we actually want to accomplish and how do we make that happen the police workflow for this would be we would have a query set up with our system that notes when these if there's a violation of citation arrest for any of those four things listed in the ordinance and when that occurs on two separate occasions the person designated currently we envision as being our neighborhood resource officer but that can that can fluctuate they will send notice to the property owner of a notice of designation that is a disorderly premises and the notice will state the property it'll state the offenses that led to that designation it'll include instructions on how to appeal that the appeal for that stage would go to the Public Safety Commissioner's office within seven days is the time frame we established and within the ordinance the property owner has the opportunity at that point to appeal he property or she could say well I've abated this issue the person's moved out or what other circumstances but other words it's been abated and the Public Safety Commissioner has that authority to lift that designation if they do not appeal and it's or it's not successful it'll be designated as a disruptive premises and we have a way that we can flag in our system that a property is disruptive premise and so the officers going to those locations it won't be just another loud party call or disorderly conduct call that officer will know when they go to that location that it's actually hey this is a this is this is a problem spot we've been here before it's it's flagged as a disruptive premises and should enforcement action take place at that point so the third time that we take a criminal enforcement action there whether it's ordinance or one of the KRS is listed in the ordinance then a civil citation will be issued to the property owner giving notice of the penalty and fine amount and also has information on how to appeal if a person chose to appeal at that point it would go to the Code Enforcement Hearing Board just like the public nuisance or just violations would be handled and each subsequent designated criminal offense that property would then result in the same process but with escalating fines one thing on the fine amount if you'll notice the fine did we did make a recommendation the ordinance to increase the fines make them a set fine I think the first first offense is $250 second and it escalates from there where the old ordinance was I believe not lower than 50 not more than 500 that was how the current the other one was stated we feel that this has the effect of getting the property owners attention and it just makes it easy for us from a stamp administrative standpoint of this is a fine first offense second offense third offense and so forth if the property owner can assure the Public Safety Commission's office that the residents no longer disruptive then they can request that that designation be lifted by working with them as well so any questions from Thank You commander before we proceed councilmember Gibbs you wanted a couple members of the audience to come by and thank you miss um fatigue Lana have you in mind coming up here and giving us your name and address please and you have three minutes my name is Vita Vitale Anno I live at 240 Stone Avenue big party area actually I've come to thank everybody for your efforts to solve our neighborhood issues as especially Jake Gibbs and Sally Warfield who's been personally helpful and in law enforcement commander Welsh has been working with me and our neighborhood personally with lieutenant Doan and the clear unit and our neighborhood resources officer officer Sherrard and I'm really grateful for every all of this is a good direction and I think that with continued efforts between UK the city of Lexington and residents and if we can get some of the student body involved with the culture issues we can create a better living environment for all residents student and non student and that's all I came to say thank you very much thank you miss Muser good afternoon my name is Erica Moiser and I've been actually living in the Aylsford neighborhood for 23 years so I was part of the historic overlay that was put in back in 2001 when the party ordinance was put in place and my then husband was instrumental and actually doing a lot of the legwork with many people and we've seen a lot of progress although I'm now still in the neighborhood and I've raised my two sons who are both college age I take teach at the Community College and I think this is a good step towards changing a little bit of the culture but also like I said giving the landlord some accountability I live there I'm maybe not a landlord but I am accountable for what happens in my house and what my children do so I'm kind of thinking that that's the same kind of relationship we need to have with landlords who are no longer living there or renting out the properties I have had some success I think I'm probably one of the grumpy ladies that calls many times for parties in our neighborhood especially Aylsford and I have talked to landlords I've gone over to the houses and talked to the students and that actually has been somewhat successful landlords are seem to be receptive and they do want to have their house kept in a good order and they're a little bit surprised sometimes that there's parties going on in their houses or that the parties have become repetitive so in other words one student you know recommends the house to the next student so we have these kind of repetitive party houses you know year after year so I think landlords could be extremely useful in stopping that kind of behavior and that might also break up some of the repetitive parties and problems that we have so anyway yeah that's it for now thank you so much for listening thank you now I'll open up the floor to council members if you have any questions of councilmember Gibbs or commander Kurt Singer councilmember Reynolds thank you chair this question I think is for commander Kurt Singer I in my district which is not near campus well a little near but not super near campus I've actually had some complaints about noise type disruptions and things like that and had conversations with police and law and kind of been told that there's not a lot we can do with a noise disturbance type thing because it's hard to measure and we don't really have a way set up to measure noise to say if someone says it's loud is it too loud or not so I think my question is how how would you in this case measure disruption what what is what is something that's disruptive is it noise related is it drinking related is it loud music and how how do you objectively decide that one party is more out of control than it but another one isn't I think also discretion as always could be a key factor in our in any of the force but of any especially the lower level ordinances and misdemeanors but if it crosses the property line and we it's to the point where we can hear from the sidewalk or we could hear from your neighbor nearby neighbor's house then that's that's sufficient there should be sufficient for most or for most of our folks to take a force but action or try to abate the problem a lot of officers to be honest will try to abate the problem by if it's a noise if it's just a simply a noise issue or people being too loud move move the party inside turn down the music that's the way we would love it to be handled but the problem is is sometimes you get different officers responding to the same location then one may not know that the other has been there numerous times we may not have a history on the location personal knowledge with history of location so I believe ultimately it's it relies on the officer their their observations is it crossing the property boundaries is it within reason and kind of applying a reasonableness standard to it but as far as what leads to a lot of those it's typically music or loud crowds hanging out in the back or front yard front porch back porch that's creating creating a lot of noise and disturbance for the neighbors in the area okay and then and this can be this is a citywide ordinance so it will be applied to every area of the city no matter what type of party or our goal is for the the query that we would be conducting for that the information we'll be getting but not be specific to any particular neighborhood it would be citywide countywide okay thank you thank you chair councilmember Maloney thank you sure I just want to commend council member Gibbs for this because when I bought this ordinance in 2001 this room was full of people they were totally against this we passed it and it started out with a big bang for three years it was great people were but then you know how the court system the lawyers get together they find loopholes and the thing started kind of caught the owners were getting away with things like it but I want to commend your council a Sally she incredible she came to me because I she knew my frustration I was getting upset with this ordinance it's a great one it worked in San Diego and what she showed me how this will make it even better and it got you guys on board it's gonna make your life a lot easier better I'm not going to say easier but better so we can enforce it but I do want to commend both of y'all this is a big step the right direction and the major didn't get it when he was here but this is in it really it let me tell you it's not just his district it will out of that 41 it was all over town it was a majority it was in his district it was in your district it was in former council I mean your district it's everywhere that it's this party plan did work and also councilmember lamb there was some areas over there that in your area so this is a big big improvement and I want to commend you to especially for making this happen and I thank you all so much councilmember lamb thank you chair I too want to applaud you all for taking on this I remember I was sitting in a different capacity but I remember when that Lexington party plan ordinance was brought forward and it was crazy the conversations in this chamber were pretty intense so that you mentioned and I don't know whether commander Kersinger or whether councilmember Gibbs would want to answer this but you all talked about including the language in the lease agreements I would assume that would have to be voluntary and I wondered how you all thought about approaching that with landlords well I referenced it that part of the reference was from our crime-free multi-housing we conduct so part of that is and a lot of we get a lot of everything from large-scale landlords to small you know a couple house owner type landlords who come to those who learn how to be basically to learn how to be better landlords and to get better tenants and to how to enforce the behaviors that they wanted their property so part of that crime-free multi-housing seminar is and it's a national model is they try to build in language into leases that specifically state this is the behavior that we condone and this is what we don't condone and if you don't abide by this lease agreement then you can be evicted so it's sort of it gives them the stick so to speak to to enforce and set the behavior standards they want for their tenants and I do appreciate that I know that we have had several conversations over in the Laredo Walden area where we have some landlords and we have really encouraged numerous landlords in our area to go to this training because it's outstanding and it's really good so I appreciate that you all are having that and putting it in place and I encourage my colleagues to tell your people that landlords and apartment complexes and so forth in your all's districts to tell them about this training because it really is outstanding the this seems to be focusing on landlord properties but I know for a fact in my district that we also have a number of people that own their own property and so I mean is I know that's a constant battle as well but do you have any thoughts about how we're going to make sure that we can get this information out to property owners in addition to the landlords well obviously social media that information can be put out that way council newsletters as well would be a great would be a great starting point but those would be my suggestions to get the message out best and then we can talk about it at our district-wide meetings and our neighborhood association meetings I think it's this is an opportunity to hopefully you know really reorganize the thinking in the community and I really do appreciate it but again I think it's you once you start something and then it kind of dwindles off and nobody talks about it and everybody forgets that we had this Lexington area party plan of course there was there were a lot of things that came to to fact that about it being enforceable and all that but I am hoping that we can keep the keep the language going keep the conversations going so that we can encourage people to utilize this when it's put in place so that we can make our neighborhoods nicer places to live so I really appreciate all the work that you all have done and look forward to moving this forward so thank you councilmember Kern Thank You chair and thank you councilmember Gibbs and commander for putting on the presentation here I have a question here real fast for your commander and you might have already answered this but is this something that only follows the tenant so the tenant moves with that follow them to the next location for the year or is that just stay with that one household it just stays with that property not the not the actual tenant okay and then the landlord would have to appeal to the Commissioner to then get it that's correct to go away okay so if they have new tenants that come in then they can appeal and say okay we have new tenants here it's now not a disruptive household right and regardless of what the tenant comes or goes tenants come and go that designation would stay on that property unless it gets appealed to the Commissioner's office and it's only seven days that they have to appeal that is correct okay and then is this something that if you have somebody's having a party and two people walk off the premise or on the premise and get a disorderly conduct on the premise does that immediately go to this being a disruptive household or is that two separate circumstances that this needs happen if it actually occurs on the I guess within that property where there's an apartment or a neighborhood a house on State Street just for an example if it occurs on that premises it's out on the sidewalk or on the street in front of it that would not that would not fall within this ordinance that would be separate it would not fall it mainly deals with dwellings only dwellings or actually the premises located therein okay all right wonderful and thank you again for everything you guys do thank you thank you chair councilmember Gibbs thank you chair if there's no other discussion I'll go ahead and make a motion I'm sorry councilmember Ellinger just chimed in here I appreciate what you've done here I just I'm gonna kind of be a little devil's advocate here now and just try to go look from the landlord's perspective now you say you can have a lease and you can put in that lease that if they do this that they can be evicted but I know in law it's not always easy to get somebody evicted and if you have if you have three violations and now you've got some people that aren't very happy you know they could have they could have a party every night and there's really nothing you can do to get them out of there anytime soon and it's the landlord's going to keep getting that thousand dollars even if they won't get rid of them correct yes I think the landlord's got to find a way to deal with that and I have some sympathy for the landlord's in that situation I have a lot more sympathy for the residents and I understand we're protecting the neighbors but I just we got to look at it from both perspectives because I know if I was a landlord I wouldn't get rid of them it's not as easy a process just to tell them to go on the street and and then what happens is I think landlords might start raising the rent to the point that they have to put this as an additional cost into their their rent and that could raise costs in for the students and do so that's just something to think about as the devil's advocate here well they might get a better crop of resident in that case it's a possibility I hate to put in those terms but yeah I'm somewhat sympathetic that but for me it's a 90-10 you know I'll give your your point 10 10 points my point 90 90 points this is tremendously disruptive the people live in these neighborhoods and the old plan was just absolutely ineffective as we've seen from the numbers it was on and for ultimately it became unenforced if I want to be a good landlord I certainly don't want that but what if that happens what do I do at that point I mean they if it continues to happen at night after nine tonight and I want to get rid of them but I can't because it's not as easy just to get somebody evicted I can't fix that problem for councilmember Evans this is on and thank you for letting me speak since I'm not on the committee and that is exactly the concern that I have it is this council's problem and we do have to be fair I understand the concerns for the neighbors but we do have if we're going to try and regulate something we have to be as fair as we can be and the conversation the three attorneys up here saying this has problems I mean it does and I'm still trying to figure out why it didn't work the first time it sounds like it was just not enforced and when you have four you've got three criminal charges that can be enforced and a violation that's plenty to stop the activity that's going on and I well I'm not asking for for for an answer but in my mind that that is plenty to disperse whatever was going on provided provided there were convictions which there were not see what's going out to the courts and again you will still have the same issue even when it goes to the court system whether it's an eviction or whether it goes to the court system with it with this civil fine we have issues with civil fines in everything that we do here so it's I understand that you'll just have one at a time well go ahead councilmember thank you because we still have that same concern when we have fines here it we still operate in the same judicial system whether it's a fine as a civil fine or a criminal fine it is still the same system so it's councilmember Maloney says it attorneys landlords whatever finagle whatever we there are ways to negotiate that is what happens that is part of the system is negotiating out of it so I don't think this is going to to fix your problem I think the lady that spoke at the beginning had the real answer you have to speak to them to the landlords I think that's that's how you can you it's communication you said that some of them didn't even know that there were parties going on that's kind of where you need to start and I'm not saying that's the end-all be-all answer but if some of them didn't know how maybe we start with that first but this this is a problem when you when you don't care about the landlord that maybe that they are gonna abide by the rule but they can't kick somebody out or fix someone for 30 days and you're to say oh well I mean cuz that can happen and then I do have concerns about how it would be enforced because as an officer pointed out it is in the discretion of the officer and if it can be applied to any neighborhood it's another tool that can be used for all kinds of different reasons and we're talking about a certain type of neighborhood right now in college campuses but it can be used for all kinds of reasons and all kinds of types in all types of neighborhoods and yeah I have concerns about that as well you know for other reasons but so I I understand it this might appear to fix one problem but it doesn't really fix it and it does create other concerns so I if if you all do vote it out of committee I would I would all right ask that you not vote it out of committee and truly consider the the ramifications and and the concerns that councilmember Ellinger brought up because you do have to look at it from both sides and I don't think it's fair as it's written right now. Thank you. Vice Mayor Kaye. Thank you chair and thank you for recognizing me though I'm not a member of the committee. I understand the concerns that have been expressed about the landlords but my experience which is parallel to this has to do with regulations that are on the books about nuisance properties where for whatever reason if there have been criminal citations at a property repeatedly a land and a property owner is put on notice that their property is subject to be actually closed and the experience with that has been that there are very very few landlords who create the difficulty who are not good landlords who pay no attention to their to the activities of their renters. The few who do it's hard to get their attention short of something like this and my sense of what's being proposed here is that it's it's really aimed at the very few landlords whose attention you cannot get except through penalty. They're just not interested. They're making what some people would consider a more than a decent rental off their properties in part because they're allowing this activity to go on. So although I understand the concerns given the way this is written first of all they have to be two offenses then there has to be a notice to the property owner of the designation then there has to be an additional offense and at each level there's an opportunity for appeal. So if my problem as a landlord is that I would like to evict these tenants but it's slow or I'm having difficulty doing that I'm assuming that an appeals board would listen to that and would not continue to institute fines. So I think there's sufficient protection for the landlords who are trying to do the right thing and that what we need are the penalties that are included in this proposal for those landlords who are simply not paying attention. Thank you chair. Councilmember Worley. Thank you chair. I do share some of the same concerns from some legality standpoints but not enough that that I would not move allow this to move out of committee. I think this is a much better ordinance than we have and I don't ever like us having ordinances on the books that are not enforceable or not usable and this one it seems like it would be and it serves the purpose that the original party plan used to. I guess you can see where your perspective changes as you grow. I was in college with the original party plan was it came into being so may have had different thoughts about it at the time. All the same though I and again I don't want to litigate this through our legislative work but I think we need to make sure that law is taking a hard look at the constitutionality and due processes of they're not the convictions not being a part of this as opposed to just citations. I'm sure that we can work through that. I understand that makes it a lot more enforceable and a lot easier. I certainly like the idea of these civil penalties as opposed to criminal activity against a landlord. One I think that's a step too far anyway but also as you've been we rely on the county attorney and their discretion as to whether that's ever pursued. I do want to ask potentially because about this issue about a continuing fine I think the vice mayor made a good point about the code enforcement hearing process. I have before coming on to this council represented folks in front of our code enforcement hearing officers but while it's not in this currently and maybe it should be down the road or we check it check into it a hearing officer would have the ability or to mitigate or suspend a fine if they believe that someone was working towards resolving the issue. Is that correct? Commissioner, thank you. Thank you for the question. It may give us an opportunity to clear up a few things. Yes they would. They have the ability the hearing officer to dismiss, uphold, or even reduce the fine. They don't have the ability to increase it though. If the situation arose where the council member Ellinger was bringing up that property owner would have the ability to appeal that citation to me and knowing the situation if they produce documentation showing that they were in the process of an eviction all the activities could be held in the vance giving the property owner the opportunity to complete the eviction of the individuals and them not incur any other fines as long as they're taking a positive step in that direction. That would not negate the fact that there may not be other citations issued against the individuals living there if the parties or whatever we keep on saying parties but it's not just that but if those kind of activities continued criminal citations against the residents could still occur though. Okay thank you and I thought that would be the case and you know for the purposes of the ordinance now it may not be necessary to put any sort of mitigating language in there but I would think that our hearing officers would take that into effect and hopefully that would be helpful because an eviction can take a long time it could be very expensive tedious to the point that the tenant can even demand a jury trial which then can be over a year before you can get somebody out. One thing this while this is now a disruptive premises plan and I really do like all the work that's been done here I think that it might be worth it to take a look at are there additional charges that could be added to this list you know disruption of our you know a violation of our NORS ordinance disorderly conduct second minor possession of alcohol and lawful transaction with a minor this is still very much targeted at the college-age student and I know that's the purpose here but I think if we're going to have a truly disruptive premises plan let's make it countywide let's make it something that encompasses other things I would say our law enforcement could use some help if they've got a place they're going back to for an assault force domestic violence time and time again having a landlord on notice that they've got disruptive folks there and being fined I mean I think we could this could be an even better tool to help us than just a party plan ordinance in better form but it is I believe a party plan ordinance in better form I'd only like to make sure by the time this if this moves out when it comes to the full council and we're talking about it I'd ask the law department to take a hard look at those due process issues you know landlords got a property right that we're infringing on here and make sure that we're doing it the right way overall though I think the work done here was was was very very well done thank you chair thank you councilmember lamb I just I just have a question on we and I should remember this stuff but the ordinance 14-96 that implemented the Lexington area party plan what this new section section 12-68 does that replace and I'm kind of look out amongst the maybe the law or maybe even Sally knows this and is section 12-68 is that a totally new section or is it replacing repealing and replacing the Lexington area party plan ordinance that yes ma'am the old plan will be removed and this will be added to chapter 12 the code of ordinance okay so because the old plan the old the the ordinance that was created in 14 for an ordinance 1496 was in a different section right a different different chapter what the law department did for the police department and code enforcement and put it in chapter 12 which is actually the chapter that mostly code enforcement works out of but also in someone that alludes to councilmember Worley's comments earlier the nuisance order is in there too or the nuisance law not the traditional nuisance of code enforcement crash degree but that's also covers offenses that relate to drugs gambling and prostitution if I'm not mistaken and that's all in chapter 12 okay I just wanted to make sure that when when councilmember Gibbs brings us forward that we understand that we're repealing or rescinding whichever the proper terminology is the Lexington area party plan that was set forth in ordinance 14 dash 96 and this is a brand new chapter so thanks councilmember Gibbs how do you want to proceed thank you chair I move to repeal the current Lexington area party plan and to approve the new disruptive premises ordinance and send it to the full council so moved a motion in a second any discussion on the motion all those in favor any opposed motion passed councilmember Gibbs do you want to proceed with this draft ordinance or how do you as is or what is your have any more motions in reference to this I'm fine with that as it is if I know that councilmember Morley has suggested a couple of amendments and I didn't know if now is the time to do that or maybe better for him to flush them out and maybe you know it's second reading it well yeah chair I don't have time before second reading to do that I just were in the discussion okay point out you know pretty good points that's why I didn't know if you wanted to bring any amendments up at this time thank you you'll have time to amend later I think be better very good so councilmember Lane I was just asking councilmember Gibbs if he was going to wait until January to report this out because we don't have another meeting until then that if it is time-sensitive and they wanted to move forward that it might be in in the best effort that we would want to report it out early well thank you councilmember actually we'd be interested in having in place for the the March basketball party season and so if you if you're willing to read it out and in fact I make a motion that it's read out at the at the at the earliest convenience today is it today that's work session but that would be quick if you're willing but I'll make that motion there's a motion on the floor to have this motion in the second to have this committee meeting read out today at the three o'clock work session all those in favor aye any opposed that motion passes I think that's it that's on the agenda if you all wouldn't sorry looking at the last page we can go over some of the issues that are in committee looks like number two councilmember farmers not here so let's go to number two releasing the public right-of-way for alleys it's in review that's still the case councilmember Brown all right number three quiet zone feasibility study councilmember McCurn Thank You chair with our fund balance from today our decision that we had all made on this I'm going to leave in a committee until we can appeal for some other additional required funding coming forward very good number for the zoning ordinance articles 9 and article 15 vice mayor K I believe that's become moved I'll move to remove that from the committee motion to remove do we have a second all those in favor any opposed motion passes the next one is improvement of the enforcement of traffic laws that's myself and councilmember Gibbs what's your pleasure councilmember Gibbs he's gone okay all right let's go to number six and article 17 sign ordinance amendments update councilmember Worley Thank You chair it looks like both item 6 and item 7 are mine then they're related to the zone ordinance in zone change at the sign ordinance in the zone change process those are looked to be set for our January meeting for some sort of report out I'll have to get with staff and figure out exactly where we are on that but it looks like we're set for our next meeting to have a report on that very good thank you number eight special event permitting councilmember Plowman in number nine illegal yard signs chair I do want to keep the special event so Heather can come back and and look at what the input was so she'll be coming back and then on the on the illegal yard signs if you're meeting with public safety law and code enforcement I would move to remove this item we've kind of flushed it out second on that motion second of emotion a second any discussion all those in favor I opposed okay councilmember McKern number 10 quadricycles thank you again chair this is something that come beginning of the year of 2020 will be having a presentation report out on this to the committee so working with law and the police right now on ordinances from other cities and just mirroring them thank you very good number 11 council member Maloney pedestrian and traffic safety enforcement update not on this committee but I think the law has took care of that language if you'd like to move it you're welcome to motion in a second any discussion on the motion all those in favor any opposed number 12 we've already had the oh I'm sorry we haven't happy the fire five-year public safety plan with police that is still in committee number 13 the five-year public safety plan with corrections we're still going to talk about that probably in the beginning of next year number 14 comprehensive review of code enforcement process staffing attrition rates etc councilmember Reynolds yes is that up for well where are we with that is that still you only that in committee yes I would like to have a review of that at our next meeting you're also in review of community corrections process to handle undocumented individuals and work with ice correct do that in committee we've got the community corrections jail concerns with overtime and staffing we've got that scheduled for 120 20 and so that will be on the agenda at that time number 17 councilmember farmers not here James Brown I think councilmember farmer would like to report out in January at the all right if we have room on that agenda very good number 18 councilmember Fred Brown and James Brown the sidewalk assistance program talking about that today it'll be read out do you have anything you're not going to leave this in committee again are you going to remove it I think we're fine to remove it yeah the motion to remove so move motion the second any discussion on the motion all those in favor any opposed number 19 five-year public safety plan for e 911 we've already made that presentation so I'll make a motion to remove motion a second any discussion all those in favor aye that's been removed a number 20 councilmember Plowman electronic billboard special committee yes chair I'd like to remain keep that in committee very good 21 we had the annual PDR report already today but we will keep that in committee as a yearly item today number 22 they had the five-year public safety plan that was already presented so we have a motion I'll make a motion to remove any discussion all those in favor motion passed 23 amendment of the party plan ordinance councilmember Gibson you've already buzzed in so do you want to speak I want to speak something about that sure I think we go ahead and remove it this this we go ahead and remove because this part this body's already approved it but I want to that motion I made earlier to ask you to go ahead and read it out today okay I was just informed that commander Kurt Singer and Commissioner Armstrong would like to slow that down a little bit okay so let's do one motion at a time so the first motion you'll have is to remove the amendment of the party plan ordinance yes okay you have a second all those in favor I guess I messed up any discussion all those in favor that's been removed and then go ahead no motion make a motion to rescind my earlier motion about your reading out that ordinance today is there a second on that motion any discussion on that motion all those in favor very good and then the PDR ordinance review committee we can I'll make a motion to remove that there any discussion on that motion thank you all those in favor and I'll take a motion to adjourn thank you Oh I believe that children are