good afternoon everyone I want

to welcome everyone to the meeting today.

We are alive and doing well. I hope you are as well.

This is March 12.

I will call the meeting to order first on the agenda are minutes

for approval.

We've passed out minutes by

email is for January 30 and February 13. We heard there was a correcion,

which has been made if there is any other corrections, please

let it be known now other wides

I'll entertain a motion for approval.

>> Mr. Chair, move approval of January 30 and February 13

minutes as corrected.

>> motion and seconded. Please vote when it comes up on

the screen. Motion passes.

Thank you.

So let's move on to postponements and/or withdrawals

from today's agenda. Mr. Nicholson, good day to you.

>> good afternoon, members, Chairman Of the planning

commission, nick nichol son here on behalf of ball homes.

A postponement request for item

number d on page 4 of your

agenda blackford property. We continue to work with staff

and I believe that puts us on

April 9.

Anyone wish to speak to this.

I will entertain a motion of postponement.

>> I move important postponement

for one month on April 9, pln-mjdp-19-74, blackford

property phase 4 motion motion

made and seconded by miss

plumlee for blackford property pln-mjdp-19-74.

Second by Miss Plumlee I might

have switched the names.

>> postponements until April 9, 2020. Please vote when it comes up on

the screen motion passes. Thank you, sir. >> gmp.

>> dick murphy on the bottom of

page 2, item 2a, pln pln-mjsub -- 21 we are requesting

a one month postponement. We have to do a cemetery study

on the property.

That take a little bit of time. If there are no questions,

please vote when it comes up on

the screen. Motion passes. Thank you, sir.

Other requests for postponements

and/or withdrawals. Yes, sir.

>> Mr. Chairman, members of

the commission, I'm mark with vision engineering.

On page 3 under development

plans item b.

-mjdp-19-71 riddell plaza, we ask for a two week postponement

until March 26. Glo are. >> do you think it will be

ready.

>> we hope have have it ready

for a few days. >> I until I heard the two weeks

I was going to ask ask you if an indefinite postponement would be

appropriate since it has been

going for sometime.

>> might be an item you might

want to accepted back to the subcommittee. >> the study is critical to this

development and to the area.

So that's a very valid point that it could impact the plan

and therefore impact other

aspects and other divisions as

well that is actually a very

good point.

>> in that case, two weeks wouldn't hardly be appropriate,

would it?

>> seems like a one month.

>> which would you like to go to? >> let's gr with one month.

>> anybody want to speak from the audience about this postponement?

And to make it clear that this

is, riddell plaza, pln-mjdp-19-71 until April 9

that would give it time to go back through the subdivision

committee which I think he is agreeable with. Motion please.

>> I will make the motion. >> Mr. Chairman, I move for

postponement of-mjdp-19-71 to April 9, request that it goes

back to subdivision. >> thank you. Motion has been made.

Do we have a second?

Seconded by Mr. Pohl for

postponement of pln-mjdp-19-71 until April 9.

Please vote when it comes up on

the screen. Motion passes. Any other?

>> staff has one item to bring

to your attention on page 2 of

your agenda, item c, this is a

final record plat.

20-11 for highlawn extension lot

28 and it's located at 1422 and 1422 and a half edgelawn avenue.

We have received a request for a one month postponement.

They have several years that they're trying to deal with at

this time. Anybody else wish to speak to

this.

I'll entertain a motion. >> sure.

>> Mr. Chair, regarding

pln-frp-20-11 highlawn extension

lot 28 and portion of lot 27 amended, move to postpone for

one month.

>> motion has been made and

seconded by Miss Plumlee for

postponement of pln-frp-20-11

for April 9, 2020. No further discussion on the motion please vote when it comes

up on the screen motion passes. Thank you, sir.

Any other requests for postponements or withdrawals

from today's agenda?

I did learn that at I believe 3:00 today, the mayor is going

to have a press conference,

which is going to take gtv3 away from us momentarily so we will

not be live.

It will be recorded and be available in its entirety after

the fact.

They will rejoin with us once the press conference is over;

however, we will continue on

during that process.

So first on our agenda...

>> Chairman Owens.

>> yes.

>> consent agenda. >> thank you, sir. Miss Wade.

>> thank you.

There are several items on your

consent agenda today. They can be considered at this time.

There are actually two development plans and one

preliminary subdivision plan.

The first item appears on page 6

of your agenda in item g. Pln-mjdp-20-6 for shellburne

plaza properties. the lex mixed use development.

This is an amended final development plan located at 501

south broadway. The next two items were

recommended by the subdivision committee for reapproval so

they've already been heard by the commission once.

The first appears on page 7.

It's item a pln mj sub 17-77,

the town homes at jefferson street phase 3.

Preston subdivision and this is also an amended plan.

Property located at 516 and 530 maryland avenue. On the agenda there were waivers

that were granted and a finding associated with access for that

particular plan.

Then the second item under

reapprovals is on page 7, item b

pln-mjdp-20-9, also known as db

98-1 for demand mission disposal services incorporated, and it's

an amended -- well it's a final development plan for property

located, this indicates off haley road, the original address

for the application.

Both of those items and then they were recommended for

approval by the subdifficult commission committee. The planning commission May

consider all of these in one motion for conditional approval

unless a member of the commission, member of the audience or a petitioner would

like to have one of these items removed from the consent agenda

in which case the planning commission would have further

discussion about that item. Is there anyone in the audience

who wishes to have any of these

removed from the consent agenda today.

again they are shellburne plaza properties, townhouses at

jefferson street and demolition disposal services.

Those three plans. Planning commission wish to have

any of these items heard today? Seeing none, you can take one

motion for these three items. >> thank you, Miss Wade.

So we do have a consent agenda

which is before us that's on the

tan sheet of paper. As Miss Wade has defined for us.

We have three items, if I wish,

a motion to approve those in one motion. >> Mr. Chair,.

>> yes, sir. >> agreeable I would move the

acceptance of the consent agenda provided by staff.

>> thank you.

We do have a motion for approval

and seconded by.

For the consent agenda as read and presented. Please vote when it comes up on

the screen. Motion passes.

We have 10 independent thinkers

and sometimes I need all of

those to help keep me in line.

Thank you, Mr. Wilson.

So to move on, at the bottom of

page 1, we have final

subdivision plan, pln-frp-20-0 9 willow oaks.

We have two of these.

24 one is lot 7.

>> good afternoon. We were looking at the on the

bottom of page 1, willow oaks shopping center, millpond

center, lot 7.

This is located at the corner of

man o' war and boston road.

This is the kroger shopping center.

This is an outlot parcel here.

there is a bounce you, gym kind of place.

Lot 7 is this and they're asking, they're subdividing this

into two tracks of land so that sorry about that.

Subdividing that one track into

two tracts of land and so with

that, we have our standard conditions.

And several cleanup conditions

or a few cleanup conditions and

whether or not the planning

commission grants approval for a

waiver they're asking for a waiver of the sewer line, the

improvements so they can go ahead and record this and create

the lot before the sewer is in.

With that we have several reasons here they said it's due

to financial hardship.

It won't hurt to create this lot

and record the lot with the waiver because that will allow

them to do the improvements

while they're under construction

and they can create that

easement one condition is no zoning compliance permit until

the sanitary sewer system has

been constructed and completed.

With the issuance of -- I'm

sorry, sanitary sewer has been completed.

So that's going to come, sanitary sewer is going to come

in through here to connect to this lot.

So with that if there is any

other questions.

>> questions? Apparently not.

Thank you.

Applicant is here. >> good afternoon.

Kevin phillips with vision engineering. Don't really have anything to

add to that.

request your approval.

Any questions for Mr. Phillips ?

Anyone in the audience wish to speak on this?

If not and there are no questions I'll close this part

of the hearing and open it up

for disution and/or a motion we need two motions.

One for the plan and one for the

waiver anyone? Mr. Penn.

>> I move for approval of pln-frp-20-10, willow oaks

shopping center...

>> it should be 9.

>> went-9 -- 20-9.

Willow oaks shopping center with

the 13 conditions presented by staff do we have a second?

We have a motion for approval of pln-frp-20-9. Willow oaks shopping center.

This is lot 7 any questions? If not please vote when it comes

up on the screen. Motion passes and then for the

waiver.

>> Mr. Chairman, I move

approval of the waiver for pln-frp-20-9, the waiver you

have on the white sheet of paper presented by staff.

>> thank you. Motion has been made and

seconded by Mr. Bell, I

presume as soon as it comes up, motion has been made by

Mr. Penn and seconded by

Mr. Bell for approval of the

associated waiver with pln-frp-20-9 for the reasons

provided by staff. Please vote when it comes up on

the screen.

>> we just need a voice vote on that.

>> I'm sorry.

So just a show of hands, please all of those in favor please

raise your hand thank you, sir.

We'll move on to page 2 for the

second part of this, pln-frp-20-10, lot 1. Miss Gault.

>> I'll try this again. Still on the same shopping

center of the willow oaks

shopping center this being man

o' war and boston road, this

time we are coming in for

subdivision create a lot for a

car wash with that I'm having a hard time today.

This is lot 1 and they're going

to subdivide and create a lot

there this being man o war and boston road.

They had just sign-off

conditions and yes, they're

asking for a waiver for the improvements to the land because

they're the ones that are going

to be bringing the sanitary

sewer across to be able to connect to lot 7.

This was the one we had previously and we are coming in

for subdivision of this they add for the same waiver of the

improvements due to financial

hardship trying to create the lot before it can be improved

and they want to do the

improvements at the same time. Sounds familiar.

Questions for Miss Gault.

Thank you, ma'am. Applicant.

>> Mr. Chairman, members of

the planning commission, E.A. Partners, we are in agreement

with the 11 conditions. Request approval.

>> thank you.

Any questions from Mr. Healy.

>> thank you, anyone in the

audience wish to speak to this

request I'll close the hearing and open it up.

Like the last one we need a motion for the plan itself and

subsequent waiver to follow. Mr. Chairman, I move for

approval of pln-frp-20-10,

willow oaks shopping center with

the 11 conditions provided by staff. Motion has been made.

Do we have a second?

>> second by Mr. Wilson for

approval of pln-frp-20-10 willow

oak shopping center lot 1. With the 11 conditions please

vote when it comes up on the

screen that motion passes.

Thank you now for the waiver.

I move to approve the waiver pln-frp-20-10.

>> second by Mr. Wilson for approval for the waiver

associated with pln-frp-20-10

willow oaks lot 1 so I need a show of hands for this.

All those in favor please raise

your hand any oppose?

Thank you so we can move on I

think to page 3 pln-mjdp-19-70

hamburg east amended.

Next item on the agenda is page 3.

Pln-mjdp-19-70 hamburg east,

baptist healthcare campus as

amended.

Now here is this is the outline in question.

This is polo club and here is we

have cabella's and cost company. Cost costco.

It is 129 acres.

This is a preliminary development plan on the property

and you can see again, polo club

boulevard, interstate, here is where we are proposing their

main campus along with out lots

here and here and in this

areaer, again this is a stream

and a greenway along with part

of the stormwater system that is

required in or e. Amp M.P. Stormwater plan that extends

through here where we actually

have a constructed wetlands in

this location. The plan, as you see before you

today, again, is a preliminary

plan so will you see a final development plan on this the

property and there will probably be refinements.

However what you see before you

today is 14 buildings, again, as

I said, the total is 129 acres. It's a large development we

don't have the pleasure of

seeing those as much as we used to.

Here is their proposed main

access into the development and

it comes, kind of a boulevard

entrance into it and then out

again here and you can see an internal street system.

Here is the secondary access that they're proposing as well.

This is the service road that

loops around.

These are all proposed at this

time to be private the median

they're proposing to create a nice entrance to the development.

As I said there are 14 buildings

included, over two million

square feet this is a very large development the parking they're

providing is over 7,000 parking

spaces to serve the campus, proposing garages in these

locations along with surface

parking staff worked with the applicant diligently to get to

the point where you see this. There will be, as I said, a

final development plan not only for this area, but when these

out lots, you will see final development plans for these

outlot developments so we can then deal with the details of

their access and layout, et

cetera in addition to that, here is a fire station location.

This land is being provided and

there is going to be a fire station construct inned this

location to serve this area of

our community those things went

forward in a normal fashion and

the plan has evolved and you can see again that it went through

committee and was recommended

for improvement, pardon me, approval, there were a couple of

resolution items and there is some history to this and this is

polo club.

Polo club was approved on its own development plan and the

access to polo club was

established on that development

plan.

Now they're set at 500-foot intervals. They're showing two and they

exceed that interval and they

could actually have had a third one to access the property,

again based on the predetermined

and agreed upon access now, in conjunction with that

development plan there was a

note that stated that the configuration of those access

points would be determined at time of development.

And that was, again, because in

the expansion area they were allowed to submit a development

plan solely for polo club.

Obviously the issue there is about the intensity and type of

development that might happen

and therefore there was concern

about the access points would be configured whether they would

have stop lights, whether they

wouldn't so to that, when this

was brought in and there was a lot of discussion about these

access points, and how they

would be configured and at one

time. We are not concerned about that.

Staff is fond of them, we think

they function very well but in this case there were concerns

and so it was determined they were not appropriate here.

So they do have a full access

point here and it will have a

light there is staff concern,

specifically traffic engineering concerninged about the function

of this secondary access point. The applicant is proposing a

full access point so in the future, that would be their

proposal, when it's needed, then

it will be installed. Traffic at this time is

concerned about full access.

And they have proposed an

alternative design at this time.

Now very simply, and I will defer any specific questions and

rationale to the division of traffic engineering about their

alternative design, but I can, -- they'll get it up here in a

second and we'll show it to you,

but again it's about it's important to understand that

your staff planning and traffic,

we very much are concerned with

the way that central baptist will function and function

safely and concerned about the traveling public and everyone

else who uses polo club and will

use polo club so the design being proposed and this is taken

from somewhere else in the country, is interesting.

It does show a left turn into the property.

And it shows a right out and a right in.

so, in essence, the difference

between a full access point is

just there will be no left turn

movement out of the campus and

that is designed to just try to

mitigate traffic conflicts at

this time it does not alter the fact that this could become a

full access point with a lot in the future should the warrants

dictate it.

Because of concern that the

applicant has with having a full access point and they want one

on their plan, they show that they would like to have one

determined now. Traffic engineering has recommended this design.

This is where we find ourselves

today is the need to answer that question. With that I will be happy to

answer any questions you May have for staff.

>> thank you, Mr. Martin.

Questions, Mr. Pn? >> could you put a note on the

preliminary development plan that when traffic washts that

that would be a full access and the left turn would be approved?

>> I believe we could put a note

on the plan on the final

development plan stating that as the applicant states when the

washts dictate, it would become

a full access point with a signal, yes.

>> it would be on the plan and perceived it would happen at some point?

>> yes, sir, we could do that.

>> my question is previously you

said by right with the polo club

development plan they had

potential for three full access points. >> they did.

Based on the spacing on the

original development plan of 500 feet tracey is correct, just

to be very -- they get three

access points those access points were predetermined.

A note on the plan stated the configuration would be

determined at time of development.

So they weren't guaranteed full

access points they were just

guaranteed access at that

location do you follow the distinction?

>> well, could you further define access point and full

access point.

>> full access point is usually

full movements available.

It May or May not be signalized.

For instance, a traffic signal

grants full access.

And full movement like a traffic circle.

-- traffic signal and traffic circle both. >> could you put it back on the

image what is proposed by

traffic and show me why this is not a full access point.

Show me the difference between what they're proposing and what

traffic is proposing and what makes one full access and what

makes one not full access.

>> there no, sir left turn

available to cars on this street.

There is left turn available in, right turn in, right turn out.

It removes one left turn, again

without a signal at this time, you see there is potential for a

lot mover connecticut flict with

the left turns. >> other questions?

Mr. Martin, let me just ask

real quick to clarify.

Here wanting full, which to me

would be 100%, 1, 2, 3, 4 possible turns, staff is

recommending right now is getting three out of those four.

>> yes, sir.

>> and it's not like we are keeping people there once they

get in there they've got a second intersection and light to get out as well?

>> yes, sir. >> any other questions?

If not, thank you traffic wanted

to weigh in now or later? Later.

Applicant. >> thank you, Mr. Chairman,

members of the commission, stach

for your record, I would say my name is bill.

I'm here with nick nichol son as legal counsel on behalf of

baptist healthcare and ryan hill

and brad boaz is here for the engineers. This is a major development on a

major site.

It's 129 acres of economic

development zoned property. Intended to house a healthcare

campus and a number of associated buildings.

It is a big deal and it's a big

project for economic development

, which means businesses and job.

That's an important thing to keep in consideration.

It is property that has

1900 feet of access to polo club boulevard.

The first phase of the project the first section is right here.

We filed this to show the entirety for the obvious reason

we wanted you and everybody else

to know what is intended.

Just this and the associated infrastructure is a quarter

quarter quarter quarter qua

all in it will be a billion plus project.

Initially 600 employees and full

buildout just campus here, not

the associated out lots, it's

two to three times that many and

for the entire site obviously

many more.

It's worth looking at the

planning history of this site. This is the development plan that was originally approved at

the time of the zone change let me set the sequence of this for

you because I think it's important. Baptist signs the typical

contract to buy the property

subject to approval of zoning, subject to approval of an

acceptable development plan.

That happen in mid 2006.

Property was zoned on September 28, 2006 showing three

points of access on the polo club boulevard.

Then August 27, again before

they acquired the property

that's a close up of the

original one this development

plan gets approved for polo club boulevard, own separate final development plan.

This is the frontage of the property there was a question,

what does full access look like? A picture is worth a thousand

words and if you look, that's a median cut there.

That's a median cut there, that's a median cut there.

This is slightly off of their property.

There is hope that at some day there will be a road that will

go all the way down there and

under the interstate and that would be a point of access.

That is where the fire station

is today so there was the note

about configuration. Nobody at the time this was

approved thought configuration meant well, we don't intend to

open these up and give you full

access how many turn lanes and

signalized or not, yes but the

kind of configuration you saw

today, no is that significant at this stage?

Yes, it is for baptist because they don't want to kick the can

down the road and I'll show you more pictures which I believe

there demonsrate it's not a

safety issue but an operational issue.

And the first iteration, if you think about the slide I

mentioned a minute ago, they're

going have surface parking. They're got toeing to build the

parking structures until later. The intention is for this to be the employee entrance.

If you look at the overall pap the closest way to the

interstate is not to come out of this property and go right, it's

to come out of this property and go left.

So if you want to get to the interstate instead of going in

front of costco and cabellas and

so forth, you want to turn left. The operational intend of this

property is for employees to use

the other access point, the

second area one so they don't

clog up the main access. It's intended that emergency

vehicles will ultimately use

that access and that service

vehicles will use that access.

If you are an employee and you

want to go to winchester road, you are going to go through this

and down to cabella's and take a

u turn in front of cabella's at a full intersection that's not

designed for u turns. That would be one of the

unintended consequences of what

the staff has proposed with their option.

All we are asking for today is what was shown on the

development plan before baptist

purchased the property.

They purchased it after this was done.

The rule of decision is 500 feet.

That's baked into polo club

boulevard.

500 feet. Assuming this is built and the fire station, whether or not

this road is, probably will be an access there.

But it's 752 feet.

Then you got 816 feet against a

standard of 500 feet this is a

picture the engineers went out

yesterday to take a picture

looking both ways, you can see 1500 feet.

More than a quarter of a mile.

The standard for sight distance,

this relates to safety that's

looking the other way you can see 1500 feet.

You can land an airplane in that

if you wanted to, small enough with that sight distance.

Here's across the road. They're worried about there will

not be any traffic coming from

across the road. That's immediately across from

where ours -- there is a flood

way that cuts diagonally across this.

Nobody is going put a road out there on the other side.

They don't have the horse power

to deal with the corps of engineers on something like this

and it would be silly because all that section is just

supposed to be a little neck of

what is designated to be a park so you are not even talking

about a full access coming from the other side you are talking

about a three legged point of

access that's the flood way I'm

talking about it is a ravine

that's back to the very first.

If you go to any other

healthcare complex in lexington

and you look at the access on the abutting roadways, it's far

more than what they're proposing

for this 130 acres. St. Joseph has two full access

points on waller avenue and

these are collectors they're on

and one on broadway, medical campus across the street has two

full accesses on broadway one right in, one right out.

Two full accesses on mason heedley, st. Joseph east has

three full access points on

eagle creek and two full access

points on blazer parke way and I

don't know how many of the U.K.

Medical center has.

Median is 40 feet wide Mr. Penn, you May remember

when we were going through the discussion how wide the right of

way would be in the expansion

area, one of our model was rich

objected road in front of henry clay with ample medians.

This is a 40-foot median, safe,

plenty of storage space for a car.

We feel very strongly about this

from the spanned point of operations.

We, baptist hospital does just from collector streets this

meets every standard that we could possibly have.

We don't want to kick the can down down the road as suggested

by the staff. Maybe, maybe not.

There will be a signal and maybe

at that time it will be full

everything about this property

warrants having a full median

cut access today whether or not it's ultimately signalized.

Nick, anything?

Happy to answer your questions.

>> questions for Mr. Leer? >> so what you all are asking

for is a second full access point.

You are not requesting a signal at this time, is that correct?

>> no, no, signaled if and when

the traffic counts warrant it.

Which could be a future decision

presumably come back here but

no, we are not asking for a second signal.

The engineers would fuss at me

if I didn't point this out. Because of signalized

intersections both in front of

costco and the main entrance here, signalized intersections

create gaps in traffic.

So that's another way that a left turn would be allowed to

take place because you are going

have gaps in traffic on both

ends. One of the engineers said they

didn't want to create another

sir barton there are more stop

lights and access points on sir barton than there will ever be

on this road and the reality is we tested it out.

You can get from one end of sir

bar ton to another in five minutes even if you have to

catch a couple of the lights. And the most important part of

that from our perspective, community perspective, there are

an awful lot of successful businesses out there with

thousands of employees that are

contributing to the economy of the community and this is

supposed to do the same thing.

>> I have a followup questions. Subdivision committee

recommended approval and we are

talking about item 13 right now,

resolve roadway widths and intersection configurations

internal to the site. We are talking about 13.

What we are talking about is 13. >> yes. Thank you.

>> Miss Plumlee?

>> thank you.

Take you back over there I think you indicate inned subdivision

there would be emergency

treatment facilities.

Will they be early on in the development and which building

or can you determine that at

this point? That would be in part of the

building I originally indicated. >> which part of the building

would it be?

>> the larger one or the one

that -- the square or the rectangle.

>> why don't you come up to the

microphone as well.

I think you also indicated at subdivision, you wanted the

second access to be for the emergency vehicles. Is that correct?

>> yes.

>> and not the main entrance.

>> and that's, again, if you

think about how the other campuses operate and it's best

practices, you don't want your emergency vehicles mixing it

with the main traffic and if you think where the emergency

vehicles enter the other hospital campuses, it's almost

always not the main.

>> thank you. >> can I add one thing?

>> you May.

>> brian hill with sam w. Bill did a great job of making

the case for the secondary entrance. One other thought, he talked

about phase one for the medica campus but he talked about

kicking the can down the road.

Well, the intent for baptist is

to be able to lease and

subdivide and develop auxillary supplemental lots.

Try to picture, for example, hotel or someone being

interested in this low kiss down

the road, how far will that be.

>> intend to build hotels?

>> I'm just using that as an

example. Anybody in the audience wish to

speak on this plan?

Traffic.

Would you like to interject? >> I'm steven parker with

traffic engineering. If it is appropriate I would

like to make a presentation about three to five minutes long.

Would that be okay?

>> sure. >> I would like to go back from

the beginning of when we saw

this plan initially.

In November, we awe a plan

submitted by cmw, reviewed and

we have been anticipating a

central baptist health hospital

coming in on polo club at some point this was the plan that was

initially submitted and it was

reviewed we met with

representatives from cmw and legal counsel.

And discussed our concerns.

And provided several documents of recommendations that we

thought would be appropriate for

this site at that point, we were anticipating future meetings.

We waited that at subdivision

meeting and there was some recommendations to both parties

that we meet to discuss those concerns that we brought up at

subdivision meeting last week a

new plan was submitted and most

significant change was a round

about was placed right there on

the site.

Much of the initial plan

submitted did not really change.

Some sceats and things changed that were necessary for the plan

to move forward, so trats where

we were from November to our

meeting on believe December 4 to

last week.

In discussions this is what they

were looking at.

>> a main entrance with the signal.

Secondary entrance with a signal

and in meetings prior to central

baptist health plan we met with

the property owners closer to

westchester road and coincidentally, an access point

that was shown on their property

in which they were requesting a

signalized intersection.

In reference to the previous plan that showed what they have

termed full access points, I can

definitively say there is no way

to coordinate signals that are

that close together sir barton way is not even that close and

I'm sure anyone who has driven

from where the meyers target

signal is up to man o' war, that

spacing is almost double the 500 feet that they're referring to.

You can't coordinate signals that close.

It's impossible. lexington green at nicholasville

road and reynolds are very

close.

Liberty road toddes and brighton shop, old todd's road.

Those signals, you can coordinate two but when you

start getting three or more it's

impossible to coordinate those

signals so we look at plans when

they say minimum wage, it is

minimum wage those were not drawn as definitive points because you don't want to lock

in a developer for those access

points.

So moving on, our initial

recommendation to the cmw was the introduction of two round

abouts and it was for safety,

cost, continuation of movement

of traffic as well as creating

two full access points, which we were trying to work with the

plan that was submitted showing

two full access points

initially. So learning from other cities,

this is in love lin, colorado,

sounds look a lovely place.

This is a site and it's

amazingly coincidentally similar

to this site there is a

healthcare center right here interstate highway.

Round about, round about, round

about, round about campus just

shy of 130 acres. This is under development right

now.

It's not completely built out but they have two round abouts

that are satisfying the needs it

continues to move traffic through.

This is zooming in sighter to

see the campus itself even has a

waterway on one side just like

this one vacant land here but

this corridor is very similar to polo club boulevard.

The expacks area has been built for a number of years and the

plan they presented said in 2006.

Traffic engineering, police department and several council

members have had to deal a

number of years with complaints

about haze boulevard, blackford parkway, polo boulevard, sir

barton way.

I would hope that we would learn from our mistakes in the past

and if we haven't learned anything for the last 20 years,

we are not making any progress.

That's why we were looking at something different than what we

have done in the past. Sometimes these roads are

designed and, you know, there is

just not enough band-aids to fix

the wound.

You can't -- it's just I am toes fix traffic and I lot of times

we do the best we can; this is

the last corridor currently in

the expansion area that can be

fixed and done ahead of time and appropriately and learn from the

mistakes of the past applicant is not very positive about

having two round abouts.

So we proposed, well, maybe the main entrance would be a full

round about and have a right in

and right out at the second entrance.

That they explained their

circulation pattern of employees, needing to come out

at this location so we proposed

what you are looking at today as a round about with a right in

right out and left in again we

thought this was a fair

compromise and would satisfy the needs if in deed that second

entrance needed to be signalized

at a later date, it could be.

You can put a signal that close

this a round about and it would

not adversely affect it.

So we anticipated further

discussions after the subdivision committee meeting.

The postponement that was

proposed here on December 12 referenced a need to discuss,

but it didn't have anything to

do with the development plan.

So we anticipated future discussions.

Those discussions did not take place at the division level.

They took place at the

department level.

So that was where we are today. We were looking at the round

about like you look at the coronavirus, try to limit your exposure.

You have eight at a round about.

Now with the left in and the

right in and right out, it's

kind of in between these two you have limited your potential

conflict points, those points are accident potential points so

it is a safety issue signalized

intersections cost taxpayers approximately 10 to $15,000 a

year in maintenance, utilities.

Things like that.

So long-term costs was part of

the impacts and while this is

economic development we would look at safety as well.

This is a video I thought would

make -- we were aware of this

this is called a texas round

about. This is when things go round at

a round about so well wear that

things can go wrong and round

abouts, too, however the angle

of impact when there is a wreck,

regardless of this one, in most

of the time is non-fatal, low

injury, low speed, so these round abouts, are more effective

than just typical anything out there.

As I previously mentioned, we

met with the property owner towards winchester road and in

those discussions, he has --

their group has mentioned where

they have access points and they

expect signals. So this shows potential of

signals down through here. This one being the main entrance.

This one being the secondary entrance and then we have one

down here at coster co-and one at man o' war.

We don't know what is going to happen at this corridor here.

You could have more signals out here.

I believe that we were just in

our recommendation for round abouts; however, those

discussions have come and gone

so that's how we arrived at this today.

We feel that this would be

satisfy the needs, both current

and future.

There is no crystal ball to make predictions but in our

experience in looking at the

site, with so much of it vacant,

we feel that this is appropriate

at this time.

>> thank you, Mr. Parker. Questions,. >> I have a couple of questions for you.

What are the average number of accidents that have occurred on

reynolds road at that round about? Do you have that number?

>> I do not have that number. I do know when that was

initially installed, there were

a number of accidents.

It was the first round about in

lexington.

We did a complete change of signage markings and since that

time the numbers have dropped down significantly.

I know the round abouts on alumni drive have been very

successful. - the number of wrecks in that

corridor have decreased.

I know the one at frankfort point has been removed.

I'm going to take exception with you on synchronizing the lights.

And I don't like to do that, but

when I come down downtown at

eight 8:30 in the morning for our subdivision committee

meetings, I hit the light at

jacob son park, usually red. It turns green and I'm green all

the way to midland coming into town.

How does that happen? On rich mobbed road all the way

in. How does that happen if you

can't -- I know I'm not the average driver because I have a

heavy foot, but other than that, how, if you can't signalize

those lights, how does that

happen for me the first thursday of every month coming into town.

>> they're not 500 feet aparted.

>> some of them are.

>> when you can spread them out,

that's what occurs. So, for instance, bell court, two signals.

The two works, but when you start throwing in three, four,

and more, that's when you have problems.

>> I'm coming all the way from jacobson down.

>> it's an arterial, plus

spacing along there. You would be surprised how far

it is.

From lexington green to reynolds

road is almost 700 feet.

So. The ones on richmond road are much longer than that. >> so when the additional lights

go on polo club, there is no way

those can be synchronized at a busy time like nicholasville

road sometimes gets synchronized at a busy time?

>> I believe it would be very difficult.

You May have a situation similar to what beaumont center

experiences where people are three signals trying to get out

of beaumont because the main

line gets the priority. A round about, you don't have

anybody stopping. They're yielding and in that

yield condition, it's more efficient movement of traffic.

>> it keeps it moving.

>> so we have very few, I

personally do not drive the round about just because I don't

live on that side of town on reynolds road.

However talking to several

engineers at different firms who

do work out in that area they have said there are no backups

there.

The backups on cur on one side of the tracks and mall road on

the other side of the tracks. Those two signals are very close

and you have a third signal up the hill at target.

That right there explains what I just indicated.

It's the close proximity of

those signals that are hard to

get synchronized when you are

heading out at rush hour traffic. During the day, it's not going

to be an issue. You are not going to have that much traffic.

It's rush hour and looking at

these sites in the future, if it is an intense use.

I mean this is only showing a

third of the development. There are two-thirds empty here.

You don't know what is going to be here. If I had a full development, it

would be a little bit easier to

project how traffic is going to

impact this corridor.

But we've got the parcel closer

to westchester road -- winchester road who has indicated they're

ready to start moving on development and we've had some

other sites towards cabella's

site that have indicated possible developments, depending

on those kinds of how those

properties develop, you could

have a road that is hard to signal with more timing.

>> thank you.

>> can you go back to the slide

that shows potential signals? Show me the two access points

from that diagram that I'm looking at on my development plan right now.

>> that's the main entrance this

is the secondary entrance.

And I think what you stated is

that when you have three or more signals, that's when it gets

complicated, correct?

>> well, their plan shows, although it's a road on sman

else's property, we have met with the owner of the property

adjacent to them.

So the plan that he showed had 700 feet, so had you 700 feet

and then you had 800 feet

between the main entrance and

their secondary signal.

So that signal is where the fire station is shown.

>> the reason I'm making that domestic, I'm making a decision

based on the development plan that we have in front of us

right now and I don't understand

why the note on here that says

secondary entrance signalized in future as warranted doesn't

solve this problem because we don't know when it could be

warranted, technology could change. I don't understand why that's

not satisfactory to get this approved by traffic.

>> well, the intersection

proposed by traffic is safer

than the intersection they're

proposing. What they have proposed right

now, what is shown on the development plan does not

warrant a full intersection.

The left turn movements can be

satisfied with one entrance being dual lefts as shown on

their plan.

It is a dual left situation.

Other questions?

>> presumably, if it were restricted in the way it is shown in the development plan

with the left only at one of the intersections, that could be

dealt with internally with signage.

Am I correct in that?

>> yes.

And talking to cmw

representatives, there was going

to be way finding signs that directed patients to the main

entrance, secondary entrance3 would be used by employees only

for the most part.

That's not say that someone may

meander that way but for the most part, it was indicated that

the main entrance would be how

people would get to the hospital.

And with the round about, our indication was even if you were

from out of town, you are going to be making a right turn no

matter what, whether it's a t intersection or round about, you

are making a right turn into the hospital.

That was our indication because sometimes people bring up, well,

out of town experience would be

different for person coming, eight right turn and that's how

we got to the discussion item about how people would get to

and from the hospital. >> Mr. Bell.

>> Mr. Parker, the subdivision

committee meeting, not this most recent but the time before when

we discussed this you spoke of the beaumont subdivision and

dealing with that traffic currently and while we don't

have a crystal ball, you know,

it's important to try to learn

from experiences.

Would you reflect on the

beaumont situation currently and

the cost that you referred to

that it would take to fix the current problem, if you would,

if that -- if you remember that conversation?

>> a lot of the problem with

beaumont is the intersection, although the double diamond

crossover has helped with safety, the movement on to new

circle is part of the impediment

for beaumont so it backs up that far, trying to get out of there,

it seems that the left two lanes

turning out are the two lanes

that get clogged.

so very different from the situation. That May be something that the

state looks at.

But one of the issues that

beaumont has is, the state

denied access point further down

I believe Mr. Leer was the

attorney that tried to get that and.

>> harrisburg or new circle?

>> further down harrodsburg out

so I believe the hay makers have

spent the money to make improvements along harrodsburg

road and beaumont center drive coming out, adding three lanes

to the left and that has not

been provoked here. At this point the development

plan before you, again, does not

warrant having three left turn

lanes out; nor three lanes on polo club boulevard.

>> did you suggest it would cost a billion dollars to fix that?

>> probably.

Because you've got bridge improvements. There is just a whole lot that

goes on in this.

That's a pie in the sky: it would be pretty expensive project.

>> the point is we need to try

to get it right the first time.

>> thank you. That goes back to the discussion

item about lessons learned on

heys boulevard on existing polo

club from man o' war up to deer

haven to blackford parkway.

Once you get houses, once you get property developed, trying

to fix traffic is sometimes

extremely difficult. Mr. Barker, if I May bring

this, I think back to the

present can you put back on the screen I guess the most -- yes,

that one for what it's worth, there has been a lot of

discussion prior to today and

today in regards to round abouts.

However, this is what is being

proposed right now one

signalized light and a second secondary entrance.

>> correct. >> so we are really talking

about the secondary entrance. How much of the secondary

entrance to we go forward with today? >> that's correct.

>> let me ask you one other

question Mr. Hill mentioned a moment ago as far as a possible

hotel on the corner, I know it's

not planned, however, would that

impact that secondary entrance? So what we are going to do now,

we are going to move to the rebuttal phase and give you your

chance to speak, which is going

to be like five minutes. I know you are wanting to get

somewhere as well.

>> well... I think that ship has

sailed for today. Will this get me all the way

back to...? While he is doing that, I'm glad

that the chair brought us back -

away from the round about because were there were a lot of

discussions about that.

This gentleman wasn't a part of them, but a number of folks

within the urban county

government were a part of them.

And that issue was, until I got

here today and heard this, put

to rest and not supposed to be

discussed today.

So I want to come back to this

issue about too many signals

because to refer to what

Mrs. Mundy said, these are not 500 feet apart.

Even if there is one, even if

there is one here, which May or

May not happen, it's 752 feet away and I've had the same

experience although my route into downtown is on high street

and there are plenty of theam that are closer than that, I

believe. I haven't gone and measured them.

And they do get synchronized.

But this is 752 feet and that's 816 feet.

Now I want to go back to the basic premise in the design of

this campus and there is a lot of expertise that has gone in.

Hospital expertise, including some of the best hospital

architects, design architects in the country that are working on

this and the idea is so that

except for patients, other folks

do not use this entrance. Service people do not use this

entrance, emergency people do

not use this entrance when

they're coming in or going out.

If you limit this to right out

from here, half of those people are going to end up coming out

here because it's going to be

the quickest way to get and maybe more than half of them,

because it's the quickest way to

get to winchester road. A lot of them are going to be

from out of town to just say one thing about the round about, 60%

of baptist current patients are from outside fayette county.

They do not come from areas like

the ones in the picture that are wall to wall round abouts and

they drive them every day the people that come here like the

first two years worth of people

that drove reynolds road, and I'll say I'm the reason for the

round about on reynolds road because when we presented the

initial plan and walter May said

I don't like this, quote dazzle

me, I said how about we put a

round about in. 60 accidents occurred in the

first two years.

The round about is gone. Thanks be.

This, from an operational

standpoint is not an unusual configuration.

It's actually a lot more

separated than you see in other areas that have been described

as problematic but I come back

to what I started out with. This is 129 acres.

All of my adult life in front of planning commissions, I have

heard the traffic people say the biggest thing wrong with lexington is that we don't have

access points.

We've cut off too many access points and the best road system

is a grid because you got

multiple access points. Well, they're basically trying

to turn this almost into 129-acre economic development

cul-de-sac. By forcing all of this traffic out.

It makes no sense whatsoever, no sense whatsoever to take a tract

that big that we know is going

to be intensity developed and limit access to that extent.

We've shown you the safety

features associated with that second entrance.

You got a quarter mile of

visibilty, room in the meade median, plenty of opportunity to

get in and out. I drive that road a lot.

i do shop costco and cabella's I've come out of the cabella's

access point and gone into the

cabella's point many times with

no difficulty whatsoever.

And this one warrants it. We think it ought to be, the

note that we put on which

doesn't guarantee a traffic signal, but having the ability

to have a median cut there and

full ak tess point -- access

point now is important to the campus.

>> thank you, sir.

Staff. Rebuttal. And at this point I would offer

to combine your time either with yourself and/or traffic, if they

would like to. >> Mr. Chairman, members of

the commission, your planning

staff is cognizant of our role

to facilitate your decision making.

So again, I'll reiterate what has been said.

You are here today to determine

the design of the secondary

access and sthaf would recommend that's where your focus needs to

be. Applicant is requesting a full

access. Traffic engineering has offered

alternate design. Both parties agree that warrants

will determine the future need

for traffic signal and again we just, there has been a lot of

discussion and we just would

like to help keep your decision making focused on what the issue

is before you today.

>> thank you, sir.

>> welcome everyone. Good afternoon.

First I want to thank our

council members who are here today.

Council member richard moloney,

council member bill farmer, Jr.,

council member josh Mccurn,

council member jennifer reynolds

and council member kathy plomin thank you for being here.

I'm pleased to welcome our

commissioner of health, Dr.

Greg ku mba ll, commissioner of the kentucky

high school athletics association, thank you to both

of you for being here.

I know how busy you are right now. Today the commission and I are

recommending that the organizers consider postponing or canceling

owl public, in person events as

part of our covid-19 response. We recognize that this will be

painful for some groups, but we

also know that we must do

everything we can to protect the

lives of our citizens.

I want to take a moment to thank all of our citizens.

You are doing a great job following the precautions we

have outlined.

I know this information changes

rapidly, and I apologize for any confusion.

It is changing hourly. Your willingness to step up and

follow the guidelines will make

all the difference in getting us

past this. Several events have already been

it cancel around town.

The university of kentucky and translyvania university have

switched to online instruction.

The city has suspended programming for senior citizens

and people are avoiding large

public gatherings. I'm told this afternoon there

will be word from keeneland

about some changes there.

And in a few minutes, we will

hear from commissioner tackett concerning boys and girls sweet 16 corn taments.

But first let's hear from our

commissioner of health

Dr. Craig hu mba ll who has

been a great teammate as we have worked to get information out to

the public on covid-19. Doctor.

>> thank you, mayor gorton. These precautions today are

designed to help us limit the

spread of covid-19. We believe that covid-19, like

other respiratory illnesses, is spread when people, who are

sick, sneeze or cough and that

others who are susceptible then

breathe in that virus and that

is how people get sick.

With we are able to limit the

physical distance between

people, that helps to prevent

the spread of disease. So today we know that this will

cause some disruption to people's lives.

We also think this is a prudent

measure to take in order to continue to try to prevent the

spread of the disease in our community.

We are asking that people who

have mild illness stay home if

they normally would stay home.

They May be worried because of

what they've heard on the news, but in most cases, illness with

covid-19 is relatively mild and

can be managed at home, all

right, with tylenol or ibuprofen.

Of course if they feel that their symptoms are such that

they need to contact their provider, then they should call

ahead to their healthcare professional or access him or

her by telehealth technology.

So these are great ways to do

that without actually going into

the doctor and potentially spreading virus, whether you

have to the flu or other types of respiratory illnesses.

It will be very important for

people to follow our advice.

We need our health professionals

and especially those at emergency departments, to be

dealing with the most severely ill folks.

We've got to put our healthcare workers in the places where they

can do the most good in our city.

Also, if you are going to the emergency room here in the city

or to your doctor's office, please try to take the minimum

number of people that you can,

not to expose others to inflew

influenza or any other respiratory illness that May be

circulating at this time. Thank you.

I will turn it over to mayor gorton again.

>> thank you. Thank you, doctor.

Next we'll hear from julian tacket, the commissioner of the

kentucky high school athletic association.

I think it's fair to say julian has had quite a day.

Commissioner tack it.

-- commissioner tacket. >> I don't really know where to

summarize. We have a special event here in

town that was scheduled with the girls basketball tournament

followed by a pretty good large

scale event next week with the boys basketball tournament.

We know the economic engine that those tournaments are for this

city.

We know that cancellation was uncomfortable: known will ever

know how comfortable it was for us.

But in the end, the more weep

talked to health professionals, the more obvious it was.

We were working with several professionals. We tried to maybe find a way to

limit a the audience, maybe find

a way to space, using the cdc guidelines. But in the end we feel that we

are in a leadership position with those events, and we know

there were events that were out there saying well as long as

they're going, we are going to keep going.

And it became very apparent

early this afternoon with the latest information and the

latest soon to be information that without question, we needed

to take a big step. It's hard. The city government has made a

big commitment to support that event.

It's obviously our life blood. But -- financial life blood but

at the same time nothing is worth the health of the citizens

of both the city and the state.

So we were -- I don't want to say

we were happy to cancel but we know on behalf of the citizenry, we needed to.

So I appreciate the opportunity,

mayor gorton and I'll turn it back over to you.

thank you: thank you so much, commissioner.

Finally today, I want to let

everyone know about a shortage

at God's pantry.

C.E.O. Michael halligan says they're critically low on

sanitation supplies, including

sanitizing wipes and sanitizers,

although they will maintain their critical services, mike

says they could really use some

help and so they're accepting

donations and I would like to

ask the public to call 859-255-

6592 or email info@God's pantry.Org if you can help out.

Now I would like to introduce

officer cliff gotbold. He is going to provide

information for our spanish

speaking residents.

>> thank you, mayor.

(Speaking spanish)

>> muchas gracias. We have information about

covid-19 on our website in

several languages.

We know that there are many

languages spoken here in

lexington, so if will you go to

www.Lexingtonky.Gov and click on covid-19 information.

Finally today, just before this news conference, I had a

briefing from congressman andy barr.

He wanted me to pass along a

piece of information where there

has been some misunderstanding.

He asked that I clarify for the public that the european travel

ban does not apply to U.S.

Citizens who are traveling back

to the united states.

Thank you so much and we'll be

happy to take questions. >> is there any time limit to

the recommendation on canceling public events?

I'll let Dr. Humball take that one. >> I believe it will be in

effect for the foreseeable future.

We expect we will be in this for the long haul, not a brief

period of time.

>> what are the factors that go

into making this decision? >>

>> several factors, first of all, you know, we understand

that seniors and those who have

chronic illnesses are at highest risk for severe illness from

this disease and we know there

are a lot of folks in that category here in lexington.

And we felt that we should try

to protect those folks as much as possible and that was one of

the major factors that went into

this decision. >> will this recommendation have

any impact on schools? >> so we have been talking with

the schools on a regular basis, sometimes more than once or

twice a day, and they have been following the situation just as

we are and we will continue to

speak with them.

May have a recommendation on certain after school events or

other events that they hold just

like any other event.

>> are there other questions?

>> we are still at two cases here of lexington residents but

there are other people that are

being tested.

>> what was the difference in

having the tournament at rupp arena on wednesday versus not

having it on thursday?

>>

>> it would be disingenuous to say that the information is fluid.

There is an update every hour. We know more thursday than we

knew wednesday and we knew more

wednesday than tuesday and there came a point when that

progressive amount of

information and especially the research done around the country

among the various health departments: it began to tip

the scales and it began to put

us in a situation where it was

thought that difficult a choice

in the end.

>> I would just say to that also.

I want the public to understand

this is a very fast moving

scenarios we are literally making changes and

recommendations every hour everybody is making decisions

based on latest information to

keep the public safe.

>> effective immediately.

>> I've not heard anything about comic con.

>> thank you all very much. >> excuse me.

One more. >> I have heard from the blood

banks that they need people to

continue to donate blood and

platelets during this time. They are especially in need of

that right now and again that's not a gathering that we would be

concerned about so I want to

urge people to continue to give

blood and platelets during this response.

>> thank you all very much.  -- I don't know what the

language is.

>> I would offer that, you know, 1: your recommendation is

either for the staff's

recommendation as far as the

second intersection or the applicant's. There is a little difference there.

And then the second part would

be signalized now or later. Funding is pretty much a given I

think and is agreed upon but you

can include that. >> thanks for the guidance.

I would like to recommend osh make a motion to recommend

approval for pln-mjdp-19-0070

amburg east baptist healthcare

campus with notes 1-12 and 14

with staff's recommendation and

with 13, with the applicant's

recommendation adding signalized now.

I think that that is -- something wrong?

>> I don't think you need the applicant's recommendation if

you are recommending to signalize it now.

Because if you signalize it now,

there is going to be a light there. So... Okay.

>> so I will say with all conditions approved by staff,

plus condition 13 adding that

secondary access point be signalized now.

>> I think the cost is a given they're going to be paying for

it regardless.

>> my question -- thank you, bruce.

My question would be and I think he was trying to follow as to

what I was offering as far as

the applicant's intersection as

opposed to the staff's

recommendation for the intersection.

>> and Mr. Chair, while he is

doing that, what I'm confused on, if you signalize now, it

doesn't matter. The applicant's position, they

get what they want. They get the left happened turn

and what is what. The signalization is the most

important thing in my mind's eye.

If you signalize now, it takes

care of that applicant's issue. >> sore you could say at the

time of -- if that's what... As long as everybody is

understanding and in agreement,

I'm okay with that. >> signalized at the time of

occupancy.

I hope someone is writing this

down. >> here's my question and this is like really more of an

engineering question than a law question just so you know and

I'm not one of those, but anyway, if there is an interim

period between the time when

it's going to be constructed and utilized versus occupancy when

it's going to be signalized,

then we May need some type of configuration to be adopted by

you all now which is either what the staff recommended or what

the applicant recommended until such time as whatever you want

to trigger the signalization.

>> I'm trying to say a

signalized, when the secondary entrance is constructed.

>> I think that takes care of it >> I would shake your hand but...

>> to clarify, you are asking

for all four movement rights

lefts on every side that's possible to be a three way intersection.

There is no fourth leg and the signalization would occur at the

time of construction of that intersection we are in agreement.

Do you have a question. >> I was going to say that

tracey was just more aggressive than I was about that but I

think the important thing is to

get the design of the

intersection as part of the

motion Miss Wade made it clear.

We are using the applicant's design on the development plan

that we are looking at right now if in fact it is signalized at

the time of construction, does that not resolve the issue you

are talking about? That's the bigger issue is what

is the design of the intersection and that's what we

need to make clear as part of

the motion. >> I just have something to add to that.

There are some of us up here that are concerned with the

safety side of it with regard to

design from planning or with it

starting with stop lights and that those two are safer than

that intersection starting with

no stop lights is everything

upon construction put the signal in signalize it upon

construction for safety purposes

as recommended by the gentleman

from traffic. >> I'm sure it's clear as mud

now.

>> so if I May reiterate, Mr. Nichol can correct me if

I'm wrong, the motion is for

approval of all 14 conditions

with number 13 to be a fully

signalized full intersection as the applicant is requesting.

How is that? >> at the time of construction.

>> at the time of construction okay.% so we have a motion on the floor

I. Was seconded by Mr. Pohl.

Any oter discussion? If not please vote when it comes

up on the screen. Motion passes.

Thank you folks. 3:22. We are going to take a five

is wellington way and palomar drive and harrodsburg is to the

east. The purpose of this amendment is

to revise the building layout,

so we have proposed building b and proposed building a.

This plan was previously

recommended for postponement because building a does not meet

the maximum setback of 20 feet in the b-1 zone and that has

that maximum front setback however on March 9 the past

monday applicant was grant add professional from the board of

adjustment for a variance for the front setback for building a

to actually be at 70 feet. Applicant has addressed several

cleanup conditions with their revised plan.

They've also addressed two of the previous discussion items

through the variance approval

that they received on monday.

Also what is currently condition number 11, they will need to

formally withdraw dp 2016-27, since that plan conflicts with

the layout on the current plan. That plan was approved back on

2016.

It was just never certified.

>> thank you. Applicant?

>> ladies and gentlemen of the commission.

John woodall on behalf of the applicant.

We are in agreement with the staff's conditions and we just

ask for approval. I know that there is an objector

that wants to speak so I'll address his comments afterward

if that's okay. >> it is.

Thank you, sir others that would like to speak?

yes, sir. >> thank you, Mr. Chair.

My name is doug martin and I'm a

resident I'm here to object on a

number of items? First is the proposed drive-thru

will increase noise, odor traffic, dust and light for

adjacent residential professional office properties.

So my office is in a building

that is zoned professional p-1.

And I guess on the left side residential and back.

And so so you have, you know, a drive-thru lane that is

immediately adjacent to

professional offices a loud

speaker that people ordering food.

You have because this is designated for restaurant use.

You have lights from headlights.

You have lights from the message board.

You have lights outdoor lights

lighting up, exhaust from the cars.

And so, you know, this is, you

know, particularly when you have a different zones immediately

adjacent to each other you have to take into account drive-thrus -

and things like that.

That's why and whether or not this drive-thru is appropriate

for this particular property.

I would submit to you that it is not.

The drive-thru is going to cause

noise, lights, exhaust fumes directly next to my office.

So I'm going to be looking at this drive-thru and people

ordering their fried chicken or

something like that. Should require a robust

landscaping noise light and dust mitigation so these are the

kinds of thanks that we do to

mitigate between two different

uses a b-1 use drive-thru restaurant next to a

professional office building is something that shid be taken

very seriously. The second item, the proposed

driving lanes for the on site

parking, they're too small and long lanes of drive-thru traffic

for a Mcdonald's or chic-fil-a would block customer vehicles

that park on site.

Line it all the way down and on

to harrodsburg road. So 24 doesn't seem like there is

a whole lot of room for a drive-thru lane, if they were to

have a very popular restaurant,

such as a chic-fil-a or Mcdonald's, so that means

those parking spaces would either be not useable or once

you used them, you are going to be stuck there while you try to

get out. And beyonded that, would you

have to get out maybe by going down that, you know, that

drive-thru which only has one lane. So if you go to Mcdonald's it

has an extra lane to get around. So it looks like it's too small

and I realize the applicant wanted to fit as much square

footage on this property as they could.

But the fact is, it needs to make sense from a parking

traffic and that kind of stuff.

The third item is proposed right in and right out entrance and

the driving lanes for on site parking peer too narrow for

emergency vehicles so in

and having these sort of tight parking lanes, you are going to

have to get emergency vehicles in there and I think the

development plan says the right in-right out entrance is

12 feet. I understand that's too small

but I'll defer to the traffic people about whether that's too

small or not. But good luck, for example,

getting in off wellington road

and turning right around that really tight turn to get into

that building b or whatever the

building on the right is.

And so the site is just too tight. The fourth item, the proposed

right in and right out entrance on wellington will force traffic

to the already over burdened palomar center drive.

Well, to the right of your

drawing is the intersection of wellington way and palomar

center drive, and anybody who

has gone out there knows that

the intersection is too close to harrodsburg road.

It is really difficult to get in

and around in that area because of the traffic that is coming

off harrodsburg road, the traffic coming from palomar.

There are only two entrances at palomar to get in and out.

If you are gogama loan's only two ways you can do it.

An entrance off lyons drive and you have the intersection.

Last year they put in a sedona

tap house and, you know, and there are zoning regs about how

much parking you have.

All all those -- many.

Folks are parking in my parking lot now because there is not

enough parking up there and I

have a full time valet up there. So not only do you have the cars

coming in and out of palomar but have you all the people going to

and from the sedona tap house. Add to that, two more

restaurants. He's got two restaurants

designated on here and so what is happened, if you are

traveling east on wellington way

so from left to right in the drawing you are looking at.

You are not going to be able to turn into this development

because it's a right in right out. You are going to have to go down

to this intersection and turn left and come in up by the

dumpsters and then kind of come

back and wind your way around.

And so the right in, you know, this applicant is the one to

developed good part of that wellington way.

They developed the L.A. Fitness.

They developed my buildings and

they developed the paer inia -- panera that is there.

Access is a problem here but

it's a problem created

themselves so it has right in

and right out but that's going

to be tough.

It has abintough turning radius to allow sanitation trucks

access to the dumpsters and

there their proposed location if

you look at the very far right

where the dumpster access is.

Many dumpsters are front loaders.

So I May be wrong but it doesn't look like you can come in that

entrance and turn to pick it up. The trucks I think are going to

have to back in that entrance back down toward the bottom of

your screen and front load and go up and unload and go out

again and so, you know, someone

knows more about traffic than i

do can come on comment on that.

I guess most importantly, I

think an engineering and examination of the existing

storm sewers for wellington way

needs to be done to verify these

systems that this applicant built so they're the developer

of my building, are in fact sufficient to support the volume

of stormwater coming off the project.

There is an easement for about

85 feet of that left property to

put water into our storm system

the applicant built the storm

system and they have built it insufficiently or it has

degraded since it was built. I'm going to end up with water

in my office because the front

corner office is a low point in the driving.

I have two drains outside my windows. If they mess this up, I'm going

to have water in my office.

First of all the drive-thru is or residential and we have the

stormwater. All the traffic stuff, traffic

people will figure out this applicant is the developer of my building.

Let me say this first.

I don't have a high degree of confidence that corners will not

be cut.

This is not a dot the I and cross the t type of applicant.

When we took over the condo

association in July we were told there were six condominium units

that were three or four years

behind on their dues six of 20

so I spent the better part of this year foreclosing on six

units in my building because this applicant didn't collect

the dues when they were in control of the non-profit

condominium association. Since July we have been trying

get our corporate records because they were in charge of

our finances and corporation during the control period.

They refused to turn over our corporate records or financial

records prior to July.

We made numerous requests for

this and I guess finally, you

know, I don't have a high degree

of confidence that that the stormwater system was

constructed that will accept the water.

I would like an engineering study to verify it can accept

all this water from a huge hill that is going to come down and

go under our building I think it's too tight.

They're putting too much property, too much building on a

small piece of property. I think the turning lanes are

too small, the water retention

is a serious issue and a

drive-thru lane right outside my

window is far from ideal. Thank you.

I can answer questions.

>> thank you, sir. >> others that would like to

speak in regards to this?

>> first thing I'll note, the first we heard of any objection

was on monday when we went to

the board of adjustment for the variance hearing and the request

was made and approved.

It was first we heard of Mr. Martin's objection.

Haven't seen this letter. I'll simply say this property to

my knowledge was originally

rezoned in 2013, b-1.

The uses that are proposed to be

made of it are permitted uses in the zone.

Restaurant retail. Mr. Martin bought his property

in November of 2017. He is one of 20 other owners in

this building and it's not just him in the building.

And the silence is deafening,

Mr. Chairman, when you ask for

other spokes to speak against it. Nobody else is against this

development that I'm aware of.

The variance was granted. It's also after having been

through this process a few times a little naive to think that a

plan gets to this stage without intense scrutiny as we saw in

the last hearing, from staff and

all the good folks that support

them in terms of movement,

sanitary vehicles, the auto turn

diagrams that address these issues that Mr. Martin brought

up were submitted sometime ago and accepted by fire to my

knowledge and if I am speaking incorrectly, Mr. Martin, you

can ceact correct me.

But at the end of the day, we have worked with staff to

resolve the concerns that they had.

The reason the variance was need

from the maximum setback was to

provide for on site retention to catch the stormwater and move it

in the direction of the gravity flow.

We couldn't put that it under

the building. That's where the system will

collect the water so we worked

through all these issues and we are, frankly, ready to move

forward with this development. I'm not going to answer any of

the personal attacks. Don't know, don't care.

doesn't matter.

That's about all I have unless you have questions.

>> any questions for

Mr. Woodall at this point?

Thank you.

Mr. Martin, any rebuttal?

>> well, as a former council member, I understand about

having public meetings. I've had dozens and dozens of

public meetings.

The fact is except for the notice sent out by staff, there

is not really any letter that comes about this development plan.

So I learned about it fairly recently.

The applicant, who knows this very well because they're

demanding that of the dues

collecting from the late condo

owners that we give them most of it they know who we are.

I'm the President Of the condo association. They know who I am.

And so they made no effort to inform our association and what

they're doing here.

They were trying to do this and the only reason I found out

about it, they had to give out

notice for the board of adjustment. At that time I thought this had

already happened because it was originally scheduled to be heard

in February.

So as far as me sort of coming to the nuisance, I think his

argument was, when I bought my property, I should have known

they were going to do this. Their development plan was not

filed at that time and the

drive-thru window is not a given. It's not a given.

and the fact that it has to be approved by this body means

there is discretion about within the b-1 zone about what goes

there. And about whether a drive-thru

is allowed there and about

whether the development is appropriate and satisfies all

the different requirements and

so I would respond that when you

buy an office there, you know, you don't know they're going to

put a drive-thru and you know you are going to have an

opportunity to say no. It is not appropriate. >> thank you.

Staff. Mr. Chairman, members of the

planning commission, first of

all, again just to clarify as I

think you are very much aware and we are used to hearing

concerns about traffic about stormwater and I would assure

you and I would assure doug that

the urban county engineer is

going to evaluate that stormwater and one of the reasons they asked for the board

of adjustment variance on the

setback so so that they could build an underground detention

basin that will address the stormwater issues out there.

That is one of the justifications for that because

they do know that they have to

address the stormwater issues which we are confident that they

will do so or confident engineering will evaluate those plans.

The same is true with the

functionality of the parking lot

and the functionality of solid

waste dumpsters.

That deeg said I want to clarify

something on this plan, and that Mr. Martin brought up and it

is very important and I would agree and right over here there

is some wording and this showed

up on a revised plan.

And initially this was just a

drive-thru, pardon me, an access aisle.

On the revised plan, drive-thru

showed up and I will gladly

apologize for not noticing that

when we reviewed this revised

plan because that word does have connotations. Drive-thrus must be approved in

this zone by planning commission%

or they go to the board of adjustment. Now that being head, there is

nothing on here beside that word that indicates that that is a drive-thru.

There is no window to pick up,

there is no menu board, there is

no stacking indicated anywhere.

So, again, I feel comfortable

stating that staff, including other department staff, we

didn't view this as a drive-thru

for drive-thru service. And we certainly did not believe

that this plan indicates a

drive-thru associated with the restaurant.

So our recommendation would be

that that wording be removed and

if they desire a drive drive-thru with a restaurant

that they dumb back to this body with an amended development plan

so we can address the issues

with the traffic generated by a drive-thru, with the lighting,

with the landscaping that would be associated with that.

We certainly agree with doug in

that regard, that had that been,

I think in our thoughts and in

our awareness in the evaluation of the plan, we certainly would

have addressed those types of

issues so, again, it is staff's

perspective that there is no drive-thru in terms of a

drive-thru window for services

being propose proposed on this plan, not as shown on this plan.

So I just wanted to clarify that

with you and I'll be happy to answer any questions you May

have for staff about that.

>> I believe we do have questions.

Sit tight Mr. Tom martin. >> you know doug and I tease

each other about being cousins

and his wife got upset thinking she hadn't been introduced to me.

I'm the cousin they don't want

you to meet.

>> I won't ask the obvious

question. Mr. Martin.

>> the subdivision recommended postponement, the staff has

worked through, got some additional substraxes and now

you are recommending approval.

The plan runs out 3-9-20. My question to you is, if we

need to see this as a drive-thru, does the applicant

need to allow us to postpone this so we can see this as a

drive-thru.

>> if they desire a drive-thru associated with that restaurant,

that is an excellent recommendation, yes.

That they postpone and come back showing that use.

Yes, sir. >> I wanted to ask that question

to you because the process. I don't mind asking the

applicant but I wanted to know the process.

>> yes, sir. That's a good suggestion.

>> other questions? >> yes, sir.

Just to clarify the development plan we are looking at right now.

It says drive-thru and emergency access lane but it has none of

the features of a drive-thru.

So you read it as. >> access lane.

>> got you.

>> and so if it were an actual drive-thru, we would have to see

a different development plan? >> yes, sir.

We would be talking about all

the issues associate with the drive-thru.

>> thank you.

>> yes, Miss Mundy, question. >> Mr. Tom martin, as you are

looking at that access lane cans

iting on to wellington there, is

that a full access lane can they go left or right.

>> it's a one way access but yes, as you can see, in the

history of the access, it is interesting. Planning staff, traffic staff

for years were concerned about the impact on wellington with

the development and I would add

this is an amended development plan as was stated.

These b-1 uses are legal,

previous uses were approved.

There was cross access among these properties at one time that is gone away because of a

change in ownership on the properties. And, of course, as you all are

aware, we encourage cross access

to help relieve conflicts and problems on the public right of

way. >> I remember that.

Thank you.

>> other questions? Mr. Martin, could you give us

an approximate time as to when

this drive-thru language showed

up. >> about a week ago.

>> that's close enough.

>> tuesday the 10th. >> any other questions?

>> would I like to ask the applicant quite frankly, what

did he mean when he put

drive-thru in there. >> do have you an explanation of

how drive-thru got on the plan?

>> several places I might add. >> banks engineering.

I'm not sure exactly the date that the drive-thru showed up

but it's been on there for sometime, a little bit before

this past wednesday but it was

on there mainly as a way that,

when we realized we couldn't get

cross access that was shown on a previous development plan, we

needed a way for emergency vehicles to be able to get out

from behind out in the back, not have to back up down through

there so that's where it came from.

>> thank you.

>> he just reminded me of that discussion, that is corect, you

that it was there for emergency

access primarily and not for a drive-thru restaurant.

>> are you okay with that, captain?

>> yes, like they said, when the cross access went away, that's

when we requested that drive aisle, not drive-thru.

And they provided the.

>> thank you.

>> so then we are saying it's two uses of the word drive-thru

in this case.

It's not a drive-thru restaurant. it's.

>> it's a drive-thru lane for

emergency vehicles and others.

>> anyone else? If not we'll close this part of

the hearing and open it up for

discussion and/or a motion. We have revised conditions.

I think we've clarified there is

no drive-thru restaurant here,

so revised conditions.

>> Mr. Chair, I move for

approval pln-mjdp-19-73, schroyer property lots 3 and 4

with the noted conditions but I

want to add a number 12 to

remove or strike through where

it says drive-thru on here so that there is no confusion as to

what that means.

So we have a motion for approval adding number 12 to remove any

drive-thru language on the plan. Seconded by Mr. Forester.

Any questions? If not, please vote when it

comes up on the screen. Motion passes.

Thank you. Thank everyone moving on, we do

have other items.

It's on page 5, plan-mjdp-19-77

winburn estates we have

revisions on a purple sheet of

paper.

>> as it stubs into the subject property.

This access road that you see

there was there to serve the

pump station that exists on the property. What you have before you now is

the proposed final development

plan for this property.

You can see again the applicant is proposing a cul-de-sac at the

end of ward drive they have distributed buildings throughout

the property.

There are nine buildings, 208

housing units with 476 bedrooms. So there is a mix of bedrooms in

these operates they're all three stories with the exception of a

building in this area that are

two stories in height.

They're proposing this is all

the parking areas that they're

proposing with the property and with there particular development.

The parking is 429 spaces

required based on the bedroom

count. They're proposing 436 so they're

not over parking the property

based on the requirements.

The lot coverage is at 17%, 25% is what allowed in the zone so

the lot coverage is well within

the realm of your regulations.

The ratio is right at.499 and

it's allowed.5 so they're

maxing out the ratio and from

the applicant's perspective,

that's important because, again,

this is an affordable housing proposal and when we say

affordable housing, this is a subsidized income-based

affordable housing to serve that

segment of our community.

The issue with the plan, and we

have worked with the applicant and staff would stress this.

We have met with them on numerous occasions and worked

with them on this plan to try to

develop this plan and get it

where we were both the applicant and staff were comfortable with

the plan.

Now, wait a minute.

There is something missing.

What I want to demonstrate and I

thought we had it loaded up

perhaps we don't,.

The evolution of this property,

it was rezoned sometime ago

initially and a plan was approve

ed. Here we go.

And I'll just point out briefly again. Here is the development plan

with proposed parking as it moves through and you can see

this is important that this is not a direct route through the

property. It's regards indirect and they

have parking isolated or not isolated exact word but in areas

on the plan to serve the various buildings what is important to

note is there is emergency

access being proposed to russell cave road.

Now here's their architectural renderings.

Staff is very comfortable with those.

They were presented to staff, to

the committee at one time to demonstrate how they envision

their units to be built and how they will look.

Staff has no issues with the

architecture proposed on the buildings.

Now as we continue to discuss

this, as I stated, we met five

times and we had very good discussions with the applicant

and staff. We have really, I think, all

parties have worked diligently

to try to address issues.

The remaining concerns come down to the initial zone change when

the property was initially

approved and its compliance with

the sman and as an aspect of

that plan, the design criteria for multifamily, they grew out

of the plan and were a part of the plan and part of the concern

with how multifamily needs to

function and work and be more successful and this was

particularly important in the

evolution of that plan and the

winburn neighbohood area. So here's where I was headed

with the historic district of the property.

He is the preliminary subdivision plan that was

approved and here is a key issue ward drive was proposed to be

extended and intersect with

russell cave road and that was

consistent with the winburn

small area plan. That connection, it has been

made very clear will not be approved by district 7.

The state of kentucky

transportation cabinet has said no.

Now the circumstances

surrounding that are the distances involved. It's very close intersection

down here. There will be conflicts and

concernses about how that will function.

There is site distance at the

bridge over russell cave road.

These are existing conditions and there are safety concerns

and district 7 we cannot approve

this so that's where we are today and that is extremely

significant to this property to

the design of the property. Before I go there because I have

left out something I want to point out to you about this

property and that is you can see the shape of the property, we

know where it sits with russell

cave road with, in fact I think

I'll go... Lets go back.

I like this better let's, again,

russell cave road, interstate, conditional zoning nat requires

buffering along the interstate

that is still in place. this is an environmentally

sensitive area that exist there is a small pump station that is

going to be taken off line soon. At the last meeting I attended,

they actually and this was just a week or two weeks ago.

They're anticipating all these older pump stations coming off

line within 30 days and then utilize the new trunk line and

pump station along providence parkway and out that way that

you are all very familiar with

and that is good news.

That is very good news that I think four pump stations will be

taken off line in the north end of town because of that work.

But I just want to demonstrate

to you again with ward drive coming in single family homes

here, the impacts of the site

and the key, again, to this plan

and the street that had been

proposed, which is now with

district 7 is created a problem

with how to get this property to

meet the design critera for multifamily.

And that is the key here, to the findings and concerns that staff

continues to have this plan does

not meet the findings that were integral to approve the plan.

Those concerns remain and those

concerns tie directly into the winburn small area plan,

compliance with that plan and compliance with the multifamily

design criteria that were developed, an integral aspect of

the winburn small area plan.

So with the previous submission, you can see again there is a

current submission.

The architecture not an issue. We think the architecture is fine.

We don't have a real problem with that.

Our concern is with the site development issues associated

with the adopted criteria for multifamily development and

again they have certainly hive

staff -- we want to be very -- I wanted to make it very clear

that staff is unwaivering in

their support for affordable housing we understand the need.

We know it's critical. We support it and we support

good developers. We want to see that.

The question here is the integrity of a plan and

supporting a plan and balancing these types of issues that we

face in our community. And so again they've checked

that off but there are other concerns with the plan.

And with that, I will add that

because you are at a position

today and you have your revised handout, today is the last

opportunity you have to vote

this up or down unless and staff

would certainly encourage the applicant to postpone and

continue to work with staff.

We would welcome that opportunity but that, they have

to agree to that because they have their concerns and their

issues and we are at that date where it's time to make a

decision.

So with that, you can see we are recommending disapproval of the

plan if we cannot achieve another postponement and

continue to work for the reasons

outlined that you see before you

>> it's outside the applicant's hands, correct?

>> there is a nuanced answer there.

It can't connect russell cave

road, but it can be extended.

Now they will elaborate and it could be cul-de-sacked.

It is being cull cul-de-sacked

right now at its current

termination. They will elaborate and explain

the costs with that are a big

concern to their ability to provide affordable housing and

staff is aware of that concern.

>> any other questions? >> I'm sure there will be the

first of many times you will see

valerie and I up here to talk about design related issues

moving forward. I think you all know I'm a

visual person so I had them

print out the development plan

for you so you could follow along. I'm not going to pick the plan

apart but I want you to see how each of the aspects I'm talking

about will apply to that. These are the principles, the

seven principles from the

winburn small area plan.

The argument I'm they're make is

about the shift we as the

division with you all as the commission... >> let me interrupt you for a

second.

Can you get this previous this

off the screen so we can see

other stuff.

>> our screens are all messed

up.

Sorry. Continue. No worries.

Hopefully I'm closer and I can read it to you guys.

So that first principle says

optimize the use of land to

promote mixed housing types and options to accommodate diverse

needs and affordability levels. so all we are saying that they

are checking that box, we really

made a conscious shift here with are all's help to do better

about building a sense of place, a sense of home, regardless of

the income level of the residents. Everyone should get to feel like

they belong to a neighborhood.

Where this current plan is falling short of the previously

approved plan is in its ability to increase connectivity and

expand the existing street

network for all modes, which

feeds into improving public

safety through more connected

network.

So the image that is up there

right now is a map of the winburn neighborhood taken

directly from our winburn russell cave small area plan.

And what it is showing you,

everything in purple the network

of cul-de-sacs and dead end streets served by a single

access point, which is winburn drive the neighborhood has

nearly 1500 residents and 600 school children at winburn

middle school that are served by

that, you know, this one intersection. This has seriously emergency

response implications and impacts daily activity such as

children traveling safely to and

from school.

The next image is the long-term

vision based on the findings of

the small area plan and I can't stress enough and you all know

that a small area plan is really

a 10 to 20 year vision. It's not near term so the idea

that while we might not be able to get a vehicular connection

today doesn't mean that we shouldn't still build the

infrastructure or at least not

create a design that precludes a possible street connection in

the future and if vehicular

access is not possible at this time, then consideration should

be made for fully envisioned bicycle and pedestrian connection to russell cave.

This connection should be a

clear and intuitive path for the existing residents along ward

drive to russell cave and it

should be publicly accessible

and ungated. So the remaining principle from

the small area plan that applies

to this site is to ensure that infill development is well

designed and sensitive to its surroundings.

Which leads us directly into the

multifamily design standards.

, which as you all very well know, went hand in hand.

The multifamily design standards

were grown out of the winburn

small area plan. I also want to share that all of

the standards I'm about to share

with you deal solely with the layout and design of the site.

As tom already said we don't have any issues with the architecture.

It is really how the site is shaping up.

It's also really, really important to note that you May

hear from the applicant arguments that implementing some

of the standards on an affordable housing project would

be too cost prohibitive, but I would like to remind all of you

that many of our multifamily

design standards come directly

from hud's affordable housing

design advisor check list which

means that we as a city, are demanding nothing above what the

federal government is setting as

their standard.

So these are -- this image deals

with kind of a street hierarchy.

Every standardly show you marked

with an asterisk is pulled directly from the hud affordable

housing check list. I think one of the largest

points where the current plan does not meet the multifamily

design standars comes because the site lacks a street

hierarchy or any form of street

for that matter. And when I say a street, I'm

talking about a perception of a thoroughfare, not necessarily a

fully public street all the way out to russell cave.

The site is currently composed

of a series of connected parking

lots rather than a hierarchy of

street network shown here which has, you know, primary streets,

secondary streets, alley ways,

et cetera. This can be done by pulling the

buildings up to the street edge. It it can be done through

sectional differences, through

streetscape amenities such as sidewalks, continuous planting

zone, lighting furniture, et cetera, and even through

material changes. Residents can easily have a

front to the building and access their parking to the rear with

the breeze way. This is just another standard

that really gets at the idea of setting buildings up, facing

each other and providing, you know, that enclosure that we've

talked about before.

And while the current plan does attempt do that in certain ways,

the perception of that is lost because you are looking across

seas of parking so it's, you know, two big seas of parking to

see the other.

Kind of our second big point,

too, is the continuous network. As we already discussed with the

small area plan, future connections should be

anticipated as well as clearly

delineated by connections

regardless of connection it has to be publicly accessible and

not gated. We need to think about the

11-year-old kid that lives on

ward drive taking the easiest route to russell cave to the

laish. We are asking to maintain the

rhythm of the existing neighborhood by aligning all

buildings facing along ward

drive at the same 30 to 35-foot

set back.

Sb 5 says clear continuous access to the neighborhood.

This one is a little subtler. With the current clubhouse

located at the man main entry to

the development and amen is -- amenities, it provides are really great.

It could be located more centrally to the residents.

It's all the way to the west

particularly if there is a

future potential. We suggested to the applicant

that they could leverage that central green space and

stormwater detention area and include it as part of their

central open space. And the kind of difference that

you are seeing with this one is

that the centralized green space

in their plan, is really surrounded on all sides by

parking lots so have you to

cross the parking lot to get to

your -- you know, the grill, the pool, whatever.

Your kid has to do that.

And surrounded by circulation

clear points of intersection.

We have been pushing a lot as part of the street hierarchy

that means that parking should

be to the rear and what you see are parking lots.

Way before you even see any of

the buildings y'all have seen several cases lately where that

has been a concern and that adequate screening is placed

between them, which is in addition to the privacy fence

that is being provided

appropriate to mitigate visual odor and noise impacts.

Again I want to stress that we worked with the applicant to

provide as many examples and suggestions on how they could

meet the previous standards but their plan has not been modified

in any significant way through those discussions.

We have stressed time and time again that a lack of primary

street and continuous multimodal network are really at the crux

of our concerns with the current

site. I think that's it for right now.

Thank you.

Mr. Simpson. Since you are coming up, it was

mentioned by Mr. Martin, I believe, that one of the

possible scenarios and would I

have to say a continuation on your part at this point, do you

have any interest in doing that?

>> Mr. Chairman, we've had, as

tom said, I think five meetings with the staff.

I think we are at a point where

the folks that I represent have

gone as far as they can go in

terms of their project that within their realm of what they

can do at the can't do anymore than what they're proposing today.

>> very good. Just had to ask the question.

Go ahead.

>> thank you, Mr. Chairman.

My name is bruce simpson here on

behalf of the ldg development, a

company out of louisville

kentucky, they are specialists in affordable housing, they have

been in business for 25 years

they're in seven states.

They currently own and operate 13,000 affordable housing units

in those seven states.

They have one housing complex

here in lexington on glen eagles

and they seek to have another

community off russell cave, off

ward drive here in lexington.

Wth me today, if ramona vasta

from ldg development and fred

eastrich, our engineer on this project, as tom indicated, we've

had a number of meetings.

We've gone through a number of

discussions, relative to what

sam has indicated and what tom

has indicated and the issue

really has boiled down to this road this road from extending

ward drive to russell russell cave.

Tom has suggested the state refused to allow access to the road.

And if necessary, steve parker

can I lusm nate on the reasons for that.

I've got an email from the

executive director of district 7

confirming there would be no access, direct access and, in

fact, he has indicated in the

email that even the emergency

access, which we are showing on

our plan, will be subject to

scrutiny as well we are showing emergency access and pedestrian

access and bicycle access to

russell cave along with the

sidewalk from our development site.

One thing that you need to keep in mind and if you recall about

a year ago we went through this

probably in your mind's eye add

ad nauseum when it comes to

plans, comprehensive plan, small

area PLANs here guides.

They're guidelines they're not ordinances. They're not law.

They're aspirational.

They are not regulations.

They are not ordinances you can

take the language and codify it

into a zoning ordinance. You can make recommendations to

that effect and the urban county

council can codify into that mandatory feature, all the

things that sam mentioned in her presentation.

Those can become requirements, but what she mentioned, none of

those are required. Those are suggestions.

Those are guidelines that can be

followed and they're mostly

used -- in fact, always used at

the zone change application stage.

And in this case they were used.

And in this case the applicant

three years ago submitted a plan, which, as best as they

could, followed many of those guidelines and submitted a plan

which showed the street going

all the way through from ward

drive to russell cave.

That plan never got developed. And if you will allow me a few

minutes to show you the history

of this particular 13-acre property.

This property has never been developed despite numerous

attempts to do so.

The first attempt, before 1969,

it was a farm. Frank can probably tell you more

about that than myself.

But in 1969, the property was zoned for professional office.

This is a 13-acre parcel.

As tom indicated, bordered to the north by I-75.

Got some significant constraints. It's got wetlands.

It's got a creek.

So the first development attempt was as a professional office.

And it sat there zoned professional office, could have

gone in there and put a

business, from 1969 until 2000, 31 years.

No business, no office.

And then in 2000, it was an

attempt to request for a residential zone.

It went through the planning commission and approved and then

it was withdrawn before it went to council.

So it sat there from again from

1969 up to 2005.

Another attempt at rezoning for

r-3 and the planning commission denied that zoning request so it

has been rezoned still, professional office.

No development until 2006. And at that time there was an

attempt, let's make single

family and it was rezoned as

single family.

71 single family homes in 2006.

And it sat there from 2006 until

2017 and it was not developed.

It could not be developed.

in 2017, it was rezoned to r-3.

Which is what it is today.

And the applicant sought to

develop it as affordable housing and then found out the costs

were so high, it couldn't be done.

One of the principal reasons is the public road takes up a third

of the land.

A third of the property.

So it sat there for three years

and he decided, well, I've got

to sell it and so he made it

available and ldg has come up

with a proposal this is all they do.

To develop the property into a

handsome residential community

no one disputes the

architectural design of the community.

There are some significant differences in what was proposed

three years ago and what is proposed today.

Primarily in terms of the number

of three bedroom units, which I think because they're in a

business of doing affordable

housing makes this more

marketable in addition to not having to put in the public road

which makes this unmarketable

for affordable housing 23 they have to put in a public street to take up a third of a 13-acre

site.

The original proposal for three bedrooms was 40.

They were going have 40 three bedroom units.

We are proposing 104. The original proposal out of

3,000 square foot clubhouse.

And this is 4700. The original proposal had eight

of the buildings 20 feet away

from the right of way on I-75.

We only have 3 between 30 and 45 feet away. we don't have all of our

buildings backed up to the

noisiest part of the surrounding

areas. And we are not putting our

residents out on a dangerous

area of russell cave road that doesn't comply with the

separation standards, which are

1200 feet between roads

accessing a public highway and limited site distance coming

over the bridge going southbound on russell cave road. We are not pulling our residents

in danger there.

But we are creating emergency

access point which is important for all of the residents in winburn.

We are doing that, which is important.

And it is a handsome design. It's not a public street and the

reason we are not getting the staff's approval today is

because it's not a public street

we met with the staff and the

last meeting we had and I said

correct me if I'm wrong, but if we built a street to public

street standards even though we

can't get out on russell cave and we were able to do the

things you are talking about would we be in compliance and

the answer was yes, we could do

the things if we built a public

street and then did these design

features that sam talked about.

Well, okay but then the project fails.

Why build a road that you can't access russell cave to satisfy

design features and run the

opportunity to have affordable

housing so we are talking about

a balancing test of having high quality affordable housing.

Rick is here, the director of

lexington's not only for affordable housing but the

developer and I know the

applicant, you don't see it in the comprehensive plan but in

the real world of doing development and approving

decisions, if you have someone

with 25 years experience with

this kind of a record, that's an opportunity.

That is a real opportunity for affordable housing.

We give a lot of lip service to affordable housing.

We don't implement much affordable housing and we have a

real opportunity with this

particular application, so the

choice is approve or not approve

now when I talked to tom earlier and I'll ask him again in terms

of complying with the

subdivision regulations and zoning ordinance, are we in

compliance with those today? >> we'll continue your

presentation and we'll get rebuttals after while.

>> I'm not rebutting, I'm just asking a question. >> I understand but he can

provide that rebuttal after the fact.

>> my understanding that we are.

Now I know we got a different plan. We have a different plan than

what was approved three years ago when the different applicant

came before this body and got a

zone change but there is a

reason the reasons we can't get on I --- we can't get on russell

cave and so the question is are

you going to force this applicant to design a public

street that can't access russell

cave simply to comply with some suggestions, some guidelines

that aren't law, that aren't

ordinance, that aren't requirements?

Now, yes, rezoning was approved based upon compliance in part

with the winburn small area plan.

It was also approved based upon

the goals and objectives of the 2013 comprehensive plan.

That was item a in your first

findings of fact.

And just because it's one of the

items that's a finding of fact

for rezoning doesn't constitute

or an only indication that is

not the law in terms of governing a decision for a

development plan after the zoning, particularly when the

road is not going anywhere meaningful.

It's just going to serve that

small parcel that is constructed

by wetlands, a creek, an interstate and a third of it is

going to be concrete road.

So we've got 208 units of high quality affordable housing from

a company that knows what they're doing it's an opportunity I don't think we can

pass up.

I want ramon ato come forward, I'm going to pass out a handout.

She is going to go through very quickly what her company does

and some of the design features

that we are talking about and

she is also going to talk about

some of the elements of the winburn small area plan that we

do address, some very important

ones, by I the way but at the end of the day, it's a balancing defendant.

We have an opportunity for affordable housing, handsome in

terms of its architectural

features which no one denies,

that is safe, a complement to

the existing neighborhood and

certainly worthy of your all's

approval.

>> has he mentioned I'm ramona

development manager with ldg development based out of louisville, kentucky.

My apologies: it's miscommunication on my part.

I didn't bring a flash drive so I apologize it's not on the

screen but we have the old school paper version so I would

ask for you guys to just follow

along with me so again, some of this is repeat from bruce but

just to talk a little bit about

ldg, we do have over 25 years of experience we have a commitment

to long-term high quality durable construction of affordable housing.

Most people, when they drive by our developments, you can't tell

the difference between whether it's an affordable housing

development or a regular market

rate apartment development.

We have developed over 13,000

units of housing, which is 70

plus communities across seven states.

Kentucky being our home state.

Tennessee, louisiana, georgia,

texas, virginia and kansas.

Our motto at ldg is everyone deserves a quality place to live.

So no matter your race, your economic status, you know, how

much you earn, we provide a safe

quality place for all to live just a couple of things on recognition.

We were in 2017 the number one -- thank you for doing that.

We were the number one

affordable housing developer in

2017 number two in 2018 and we are still awaiting the results

of 2019.

Most recently we were recognized

by khc for river portlandings in louisville kentucky.

This is a very innovative

project where it's an interester generational community of family

apartments, apartments for

seniors 55 and older and family scholar house which houses

children aging out of foster

care as well as single parents and helps them get through

schooling to be able to work and

provide for themselves next up

our kentucky development portfolio, this is just a

partial list but you do have

development in georgetown, we do have a development, an older one

here in lexington, glen eagles apartments off man o' war

boulevard near the costco.

In louisville we have over look

terraces, brook stone senior, brook stone, bristol bluffs

which was recently completed at around the end of 2019 and

jefferson green which is close

to the jefferson town mal if you are familiar with louisville

is currently under construction. These are family apartments,

targeted toward family. That's why we have a good number

of three bedroom units but there

is a mix of one, two and three

bedroom units for families and 208 total apartment homes that

we are proposing.

The next couple of slides we can quickly go through but these are

elevations from our architect

that show that the buildings do indeed look like they do in the

rendering and all of our

development so we can who have

through that this is town

commons in liz deathtown -- elizabethtown.

All of our developments have a

very consistent look to them.

So known for our developments

are adding as many amenities as we possibly can for our residents.

We have the clubhouse which

houses a little kitchenette, tv

lounge, seating areas, fitness center, business center for

those needing to use the

computer swimming pool grill

picnic area, benches and seating

throughout the site, playground,

on site management which is very

important as well as on site maintenance staff and 24 hour

maintenance number as well and what we are proposing is gated

access tore nights and weekends.

Next up is, unit amenities,

typical for our developments, dishwasher, microwave, balcony,

ceiling fans, washer dryer

hookup and vinyl plank flooring. It is beautiful.

And tile floors in the kitchens

and baths.

The next slide is just a few photos, a little hard to see on

the screen but on your pages probably easier.

The bottom left is our clubhouse at bristol bluffs and the rest

are just photos from units

inside the units.

Next up, this photo is actually

from also from bristol bluffs, our computer center, which also

have tables with crayons for

children like for people.

Bliss toll bluff is was recently

complete we are proposing the same type of program, if and

when we get through the development plan approval

process, we will be reaching out

to local organizations to put on

a similar program here for the residents.

So next up, a little bit about,

I won't go too far deep into the

whole affordable housing 101 but basically just wanted to let you

know that our developments are

financed with the low income tax

credits tax exempt bonds by the kentucky housing corporation.

We do use conventional bank

financing as well as hud

financing and sometimes soft

funds or gap funds are used by

the local housing authority, khs additional funds that help us

fill gaps when are is necessary

to get the development done. So this isn't public housing by

the actual housing authority.

We are a private developer but we provide housing based on

hud's definition of affordable housing and there are certain

rent and income limits that we

have to follow.

Next up, this is just an example for lexington.

The median income for lexington

for a family of four example is 74,500 and so with this

development, we would be serving

families that earn between 40

and 80% of that income range so

that's 29,800 to $59,600 for a

four person household.

The next slide, these are the maximum rents that could be

charged although there is a

difference between maximum and achievable rents for an area.

So these are just the maximum

per hud guidelines based on that 40% of the area's median income

to 80% and so this is the max rent range although those higher

end numbers are very likely to

not be that high. Next we can probably just,

you've already seen the site

location from one of the earlier slides.

That's just an aerial view but next up, this site plan is

different from the ones that you guys were looking at previously.

I asked fred to, our civil to add in the landscaping so that

we can actually see wht is going on here.

There is a lot of green space, grass, landscape buffers on the

site and I know that that is

very important to for residents to have a place to walk around,

to have green space to go to and

hang out and not only see a sea

of parking so we have done that by -- we've done that by, I talk

with my hands a lot.

We've done that by adding landscape, you know, different

areas like every so many spaces

in the parking lot as well as burring.

I just want to talk a little bit, somewhat of a summary of

the different conversations

we've had with planning staff to

answer, address, respond to some

of the concerns. Variation from the approved development plan.

We are a different developer, different civil engineer.

Our building footprints are dramatically different from the

previous developer in that we have a prototype that we use

over time that we have developed that now that we have a design

in place, it helps keep the

design costs low each time we

develop so we are developing

apartments for families and so

the footprints are larger than the previous applicant.

2 knowledges -- also with the

three bedrooms is very strict parking requirements.

With the municipalities we deal with they're one and a half

spaces per unit where heers in

lexington it's.9 spaces per bedroom which ever is larger so

the three bedroom units really makes it more difficult to work

with the smaller site with those

significant parking requirements.

Public road, which I will get

into a little bit more after this slide but the cost of the

road plus I am improvements and

the required size of the road is

another reason why we varied from the initial plan we do have site constraints when it comes

to parking as I mentioned.

Wetlands, we typically try our absolute best to avoid wetlands

because of permitting costs to

mitigate as well as we do a lot

with hud financing and it truggers many more environmental

reviews that take months to get through.

So we just try our best to avoid

wetlands at all cost. >> ects coup us me life hive

excuse me.

Let me interrupt for a second.

With the applicant's presentation being 30 minutes,

you are down to eight minutes just to let you know.

>> I'll get through.

I'll make it fast.

So bottom line, 208 units helps to make the development feasible

and affordable housing as you

know is desperately needed.

So getting into the public road connection, as bruce mentioned,

we lose almost a third of the

site due to the width necessary for the road. Road.

We are looking and this is actually on the conservative

side, upwards of $600,000 to to

put in a public road as well as whenever a public road is put in

like that there are going to be requirements for improvements on

to russell cave as well. Again it's just economies of

scale, the development is not viable with the smaller unit

count when you have additional

costs and not as many units to spread it out over.

It doesn't work and investors

they want a return on their development so it just didn't

work out feasibly.

Another thing, next up. As I mentioned, kentucky

transportation cabinet has currently says no to the access,

there is not enough site

distance for ingress and egress. Connection is highly unlikely.

Weigh have proposed emergency access which I know is very

important for the neighborhood

so we propose crash gates as well as move the emergency

access as far south possible to

allow for as much site distance

for emergency vehicles. Controlled access gates, it's

just strongly desired.

It cuts down on illegal dumping,

lowers the rate of car break-ins. I will say this is not a deal

breaker for us as far as controlled access gates.

It's just very strongly desired by property managers and we

propose to leave it open monday through friday during the day

and just close it nights and

weekends if that would be

acceptable.

Fencing. Bottom left and the right side

of the photo, you can see what

our typical fencing looks like.

It's aluminum, mostly decorative. Discourages people from cutting

through our single family

neighbor's yards.

I want to get to the design

standards.

Fox run yeah, so this one is

right down the street from the development from our development

and it shows fencing that is

similar to ours so I just wanted to point that out.

Position of the clubhouse, so it was mentioned earlier about

accepts of place and we do, our

developments our clubhouse is a welcome feature as you saw in

the previous photo, the aerial view, 99% of the developments,

the clubhouse is the first thing you see.

Residents stop in, they pick up their mail, on a first name

basis with the property leasing folks.

It's just a consistency among

our ldg developments. Okay. I want to get into the

architectural design. I won't talk too much as was

mentioned earlier architecture design does comply which is at

least, I don't know, 20% or so

of the multifamil guidelines.

The open space and landscaping,

while we don't sit every bullet

point, I feel like we do meet a lot of these but also some of

them we might meet partially,

for example.

Let's see, the ones that deal

with the road connection. So even though we are not

providing the public road connection, we are still

providing the sidewalk, bicycle connection.

We do have sidewalks throughout the site.

i guess visually it doesn't

look -- planning staff was not, I don't know the right word I'm

looking for, with what we've shown, saying that it's not a

very good flow, I guess to our sidewalks but the sidewalks are

all handicapped accessible, they interconnect throughout the entire site.

We would place cross walks,

speed bumps as necessary throughout so that everybody is

able to access every part of the

site as well as ward drive and russell cave.

We have provided stormwater detention per the design

guidelines, all paths are handicapped accessible.

Regarding site lighting, we always get a photo metric study

from our engineer, electrical

engineer that shows the lighting path.

So we aim to obviously not disturb our single family

residents and make the site lighting appropriate for the

site and our architect gets involved in the design as well

as long with kentucky utilities

and lg & e because we lease poles from them typically so

they would have a say so in the

design. You guys can look at the rest of

the bullet points but overall, I

will say we've done it was mentioned that some of the

design standards were taken from

hud and we've literally done

dozens of deals and developments

with hud financing and they're

hif hive they have never had a problem with the way that we lay out our sites.

A lot of our sites are fairly similar and we have to work what

we are given sometimes so, you know, number one, everyone

deserves a quality place to

live, affordable housing was we

do when I say that cost is an

issue, it doesn't come from a place of greed or anything like that.

It comes from a place of feasibility and actually getting

a development done and so if,

you know, if we don't get the proper returns for the investors

and lender and we are not able to pay the mortgage, then we

can't do the development and so that's where it's coming from.

So we were respectfully ask for

you to consider our development

for approval. Thank you everyone.

>> thank you. >> questions May come later.

Mr. Simpson, you have one minute.

>> I'm sorry.

>> you didn't do it.

>> one critical consequence of

putting the road in and also

putting in the three bedroom units that we are proposing,

which is two and a half times

greater than what the 2017 plan

proposed, is that if we put the public road in with those three

bedroom units, we would lose 112 units. The most units we can put in

would be 96. Which obviously is not feasible.

So there is a major consequence

of our plan and also being required to put that public

street in.

So for those reasons, we would respectfully request that you

approve our request and when we

get to that point, I have some suggestions on the conditions

staff has proposed with respect

to approval. thank you.

>> thank you, Mr. Simpson. Anyone else in the audience wish

to speak on this plan? No?

Okay.

So questions from the planning commission? Yes.

>> again, yes, fingers are coming up.

>> Mr. Simpson as we are looking at this site, this is a

difficult site p 5 to the north,

russell cave which is, you are not going to be able to gain

access to other than emergency

access.

If that is something you can't work around because of expense.

It looks like the staff wants to work with you to help make this

work and the question is connectivity and not how to

create thiscrossed.

There are solutions to work on

to not extend the road but continue connectivity.

You don't want to go back and work with staff to determine how

to provide the connectivity that

would make them happy?

>> it's not about -- it's not a

matter of wanting -- not wanting

to work with the staff, we have

met with them five times.

The issue is the staff wants a

public street. The cost of that public street

and the amount of land that it

takes up makes this a deal-killer for us.

>> I'd like to hear the staff's response to that, whether or not

they wanted -- is that the deal breaker, the public street or not?

I'm seeing heads --

>> it can be a private street

built to public street standards, but when we met with

them last, I asked them, is

where we are, is this that we need this public street or

private street built to public street standards and the answer

was yes.

>> bruce, if I May -- no, that is ok.

Let's stick with specific questions and back and forth

rebuttals can come after the fact. Ok? I'm sorry.

But we can get to that part.

Other questions? Yes?

>> I guess this is for the lady

that represented the developer.

Is this a build and manage or build and sell project?

In other words, when you complete this out, do you stay

and manage it or sell it to a property manager? >> yes.

So we stay in it as long-term

owners of the development, but we hire a third-party property

management company, we typically use winterwood who has a lot --

they manage thousands of units. >> as far as the property is concerned --

>> ass far as the property is concerned, we would not turn

around and sell it or -- we stay involved.

We are the owners, our company is the guarantor of the loans of

the khc kentucky housing

guidelines, there is a minimum of 15-year compliance period, so

we're involved in it and --

>> so you couldn't sell it for a minimum of 15 years?

>> we're long-term holders, for that. >> Ms. Mundi?

>> who manages or takes care of

or gives oversight to these youth youths that you have in the

facility that are transitioning? I've been involved with a

situation like that and it is --

>> oh, well that is a separate development, it was called

family scholar house -- >> so there.

>> this isn'ted same type of housing, that was just one of

the developments that we partnered with, the family

scholar house in louisville. But they offer those services at

that development of youth aging

out of foster care to help them get into educational programs

and single parents as well. >> so there would --

>> this development is different

from that in that it is just family apartments, but we will offer on-site monthly programs

for residents, that is voluntary

for the, you know, financial empowerment, things like that. >> thank you very much.

>> other questions? >> I also have a question for

you, if you don't mind. You said you avoid wetlands as

much as possible.

And as I look at the site plan,

the treatment of the wetlands is reflects that attitude, you

know, I'm looking at a lot of

six-foot retaining walls, just

encircling -- almost completely

encircling what could be nice amenities, but clearly walled

off and not -- not exploited in any way as a potential amenity

for the community.

I just -- I wonder if you could address that?

>> um... Well, there are -- sidewalks throughout.

for people to walk throughout the site.

It is still a visually pleasing

eye would say our civil could probably speak better to the

visual design aspect of it.

>> the site has a lot of relief in it.

So to build the large buildings as close as 30 feet apart in the

parking lot, we will have to fill and cut.

As you know the wetlands and streams in a low area.

The planning staff requires you

to show retaining walls, and without a detailed grading plan

at the time of submittal, I put retaining walls where I thought

they would need to be placed to accomplish the grading and

filling of the parking lots and building pads of all the relief on the site.

It will be a lot of grading on

the site to get it where it can be built upon.

>> Mr. East ridge, I'm sorry.

If you would, we know you. >> I'm sorry, I'm fred east

ridge for san teracorporation. I'm sorry.

I forgot all about it Mr. Chairman. >> that's ok.

It has been a long day.

>> so anything else? No? Other questions? Anything else?

Let me ask one thing.

You mentioned preferred gated community.

So does that mean -- obviously, limited access just to the

residents? >> that's what we're proposing

for nights and weekends.

It's just our property manager

and internal portfolio managers, it's what they prefer.

A good majority of our newer developments, it has worked so

well in texas, georgia, tennessee, that our developments -- everything that

we have currently in the

pipeline in kentucky is proposed

for controlled access in and out.

Again, it is not a deal-breaker,

it is just something that we're requesting and for it to be

open, you know, monday through

friday and closed nights and weekends. >> ok.

>> we're willing to work. >> thank you.

Thank you. >> yes?

>> I have another question for you regarding that as well.

So it sounds like the staff is really concerned with how you

can make the connectivity from

ward drive to russell cave. It's difficult.

I can see how it is difficult.

Would you all be opposed --

would you be opposed to the same gate system you have in the

front of the building at russell

cave to allow pedestrian access for the connecting neighborhood

at ward drive during certain operating hours?

>> we would -- well, I think there is a certain type of gate

that has to be used for the

emergency access on to russell cave.

Click to enter.

But there would be some -- a pedestrian in and out, if you

will, in the gate.

I'm not sure what type of fencing -- bruce -- fred might

be able to speak to it. I know there is a certain type of fence required around I-75

like 8-foot or something for noise barrier and a certain type

of fencing that probably has to

be used for russell cave, per regulations.

But we can provide a fence that

has a pedestrian in and out so

they can get in and out of the gate. >> that would help with

connectivity? >> yes.

There is a sidewalk that

shows -- that leads to russell cave. That is shown on the plan, currently.

>> ok. And a question about parking on

the development plan.

You are doing 0.9 parking spaces per bedroom.

Are you doing that because that is what your market demands

or -- maybe not taking -- >> no.

Typically we're around 1.5 to

1.7 spaces per unit is our

normal -- normal for our developments.

But the lexington -- lexington's

requirements are 1.5 spaces per

unit or 0.9 spaces per bedroom, whichever is higher.

Which makes all of the three-bedroom units 2.7 space requirement per unit.

So that's part of the tough part

about making that site work is that we had to get a certain amount of parking spaces per lexington's requirements.

>> right. But what we have seen with staff

is staff is willing to work with

parking reductions in order to help decrease density and

help -- >> mentioned that in the last meeting.

The thing is that there is nothing set in stone and there

wasn't really a time frame given.

We have a short -- we don't -- I mean, without giving details of

our purchase agreement, we don't have very much time left in our due diligence period, not sure

if the seller is going to extend.

So we're -- we can't really say because we don't have any

guaranties of parking reduction. >> any other questions?

We haven't done rebuttal yet.

We will do that. And I guess Mr. Simpson, you

would go first. Official rebuttal time.

>> rebut what?

Nobody said anything yet. >> ok.

Well, we have been going on it

here for a good hour, I'd say. >> excuse me?

>> we can look to the staff. >> he can't --

>> in order of our agenda, you

know, Mr. Simpson, do you have

anything you want to add?

>> closing statement or rewhat rebuttal. >> usually staff would say something.

I would say something if they did.

There is nothing to rebut if they haven't said anything.

>> if you have nothing to rebut, we'll move on then, you know,

give the staff an opportunity to

go as well.

>> that is the way we have done it.

Petitioner's comment, rebuttal. >> I don't believe we have

anything specific to rebut,

perhaps some clarification.

first of all, yes, the plan does

meet article 21, the land subdivision regulations are not

applicable. There will be no subdivision of

the property.

From the technical perspective, yes, they meet the parking, the far and lot coverage, that sort

of thing.

We really need to clarify the

street situation.

Staff did not insist upon a public street.

What we agreed to an

understanding is that the design criteria worked very effectively

with a public street.

What we did say to them is that

we would like for them to -- this is my word more than other

staff member's is mimic a public street.

Try to create a layout that

provides that feeling of a public street is what we were

looking for. And the connectivity and then

allow the criteria then to be applied. Applied.

A granted that poses some design issues. It does that they would have to

answer and they would have to deal with.

But as -- we didn't insist by any means upon an actual public

street.

We're aware that the vehicular

access to russell cave road is off the table at this time.

We would like to see a nice,

clear, well-defined bike-ped path connecting the neighborhood

to russell cave, we think that would be advantageous.

Granted there is movement through the property. You can see the sidewalks.

we think that a nice, clear

access well defined access would be an improvement, certainly in

it their connectivity. >> that's it? >> that's it.

>> can I ask him a question? >> yes, you May ask a question.

>> Mr. Martin, let me get

clarity here. Woodburn is a challenge because

it is the biggest community with one way in, one way out.

They have been talking about

some connection to citation road? Where is that?

>> it isson going. Moving forward.

>> that seems to be going forward, they would have access

to it.

>> yes woodburn drive will eventually connect to citation,

yes, sir. >> ok. Ok.

>> I think there is another small concern that I have.

I just lay it out here on the table.

Wind burn is a real special neighborhood and I understand

the affordable housing. I don't think there is a soul up

here who would be against affordable housing.

If you look at this plan, that is where all the apartments are.

What we tried to do in this community is spread this stuff

out through the community, not have all housing, affordable

housing in one area, so to speak.

Yet that's what we have here in wind burn as such.

I will sort of say, that is kind

of -- we're all for it, we want

it, but we would like to disseminate it.

>> and I mean,  --

>> you don't have to answer.

>> kc encourages that sort of thing. It is a function of economics.

>> I hear that. >> yes, sir?

>> tom, I have another question about this development plan.

So what you are saying is the

ward drive extension, you all are ok with the cul-de-sac

there, but you wanted -- I guess

more effort from the civil

designer is to, like you said,

mimic -- mimic a private street,

not at the expense of a private street, but mimic that kind

of -- that connection rather

than it all being accessed by parking lot? >> yes, sir.

>> is that a better way to describe it? >> yes, sir.

And that allows the criteria to

kind of fall into place and

complement each other and work.

>> I understand that the parking requirements is something that

we're working on to increase

density, which then increases density.

Now, I know that there are some

parking -- you can get some parking credits.

>> transit and bike.

>> transit and bike.

>> they're not allowed any regulate

regulatory relief at this time. Infill allows --

>> do we not have relief for if you deed restrict affordable

housing units you get a reduction in parking

requirements? >> no, sir, not current.

>> maybe their parking requirement requires them to

have 438 spaces, which we now are looking at a development

plan that instead of having a mimicked road system, we have a

parking lot system? >> yes, sir.

>> so this is difficult situation.

>> it is a difficult situation, yes, staff has acknowledged

that, certainly. Yes.

>> I do want to say -- we didn't -- we didn't share it with you all, because it just --

it didn't seem appropriate, but

we did -- valerie and I did work

on a mock up of how you could do it and fit in our design

standards and kind of work with

the idea of pulling a road like,

you know, basically a cul-de-sac extension toward the back of the

property.

And it doesn't have to be, you

know, a full public access road,

but the idea is that you, you know, you eventually some kay it

could be, so the infrastructure

and the width is there.

But we were able to get the

things to work, to get their

buildings on-site and we tried to work with the applicant as

much as we could, and you know, even give suggestions on how to

make it better.

So we're at a bit of an impasse.

>> were they receptive to that? >> no, not really.

>> ok.

Mr. Simpson, one minute.

>> I offered rebuttal earlier, and you declined, I will give

you one minute. >> because nobody said anything

for me to rebut. >> you had your chance. go ahead.

>> fred, can you come up, and

also ramona? There seems to be the

implication from staff that we weren't willing to work or

listen with respect to their design.

And I know fred, you looked --

you reviewed their proposed design.

And share with the planning commission what we would have

had to have done in terms of redesigning our project

regarding this street, be it a

private street or whatever you want to call it in order to

comply with their wishes? >> yes, sir.

>> I would just --

>> let him answer the question. >> the situation is the private

street has to be built according

to public standards. In putting the private street

in, we would have lost a lot of parking spaces.

They were showing parallel

parking on the private street,

which is not good. Their plan was very well thought

out, it was a nice plan.

Some of the aspects did not fit this site.

They had taken areas from a

detention base and put it in the wetlands, which won't work.

The bottom line is to accommodate their plan, we would

have lost units. That's the bottom line.

>> thank you, sir.

I will end this here at this point.

You know, we have gone through presentations, we went through

the rebuttal phases, questions,

so at this point, I'm going to close this part of the hearing.

open it up for any discussion among commission members and or

a motion at this point.

So first any comments?

From anyone? >> I'm going to make just some

observations. You know, I guess when I look at

plans, I see a lot of things

that maybe other people May not see.

And through this whole discussion, I guess I'm under

the impression that the solution

that we're looking at here is strictly an engineer solution

and not an artful solution in

any way, and that is the root of the problem.

And I don't know how else to put

it, but, I think that a greater willingness to work with staff

and to try to respond to some of the opportunities of the site

rather than sticking to these formulaic approaches would

really benefit and could come --

could bring the applicant to a solution solution.

I mean, I could suggest some things, but it's.

Unless there -- unless the willingness is there, it is a

moot point. >> thank you, sir. Anything else?

>> to follow. I agree with what you are saying

exactly. But what I am hearing is that

they're under a time constraint

and they need an approved

development plan to get to closing. Is that correct?

Just a nod?

That it is a timing issue. I don't know how to get

around -- I don't know how to

get around that, it sounds like there is a timing issue.

They need to get to closing.

It is a really difficult site. And -- I agree with everything

you said, so I'm conflicted. It is a difficult site with

russell cave and 75.

We have someone willing to come in, a nice organization to come

in, provide 208 affordable housing units. We don't have a problem with the

buildings at all. It is the connectivity.

I know the staff wants to work with them to get done.

This timing issue makes it

complicated for me.

>> other thoughts? Anyone? Go ahead.

>> just one quick thought.

One concern that hasn't been discussed that has struck me is

the possibility that this plan

could make an unsafe community

because of the sort of

disjuncture and lack of connectivity.

And opportunity for things to be

going on that are not being seen

and present opportunities for

bad behaviors. >> ok.

Yes, sir? >> I just -- I appreciate that

there is a time constraint.

I believe.

But it's a situation, I think,

as bruce has said, that it's not

the easiest site, and to have

been working on this for some time.

There is meant to be a compromise somewhere in there,

and I would think, if I were presenting this -- if I were the

owner of this property and such,

I would extend because it seems

like it is close, but we're kind

of being held in ransom that

that ends up being the issue. You know, I really don't

appreciate that situation, particularly.

>> Mr. Wilson, you were reaching.

>> well, I was going to cap my colleague's discussion here.

You see I hear the word ass time as being an issue.

I understand that. And from my perspective, if I

had a major project like this on the line, I would be meeting

more than five times. I would be meeting 24 hours a

day because I would have that thing wrapped up before I got

down here today. You know, it didn't seem the

sense of urgency to get it done as opposed to just doing

whatever. But -- >> Mr. Chairman?

>> I'm sorry, sir. No. No, sir.

I just texted the owner to see if we can get one more month,

and he's agreed to do that.

So if the chair is willing to

postpone a month, we'll give it another shot.

>> thank you, sir. I think I did ask that before we

got to this point, and would

appreciated it at that time. So we have two options.

I guess we have still options that we can move to approve,

disapprove or continue at this point. We would need to continue since

we have gotten to this point and

heard this information because I don't think any of us wants to

go through it again. >> Mr. Chair? >> yes, sir.

>> I would like to make a motion

to continue this application plnmjdp-19-77.

>> ok. >> one month.

>> April 9, if I remember correctly from about four hours

ago. >> ha-ha.

>> we have a motion on the floor for a continuance.

Do we have a second?

>> graham pohl has seconded it. Discussion, Mr. Penn?

>> I want to say, if we don't come back with some type of

continuity, or some type of -- come back with the same

development plan and there is no connection, continuity, whatever

they're looking for there, it

will be a pretty short hearing.

>> any other discussion?

>> I would -- I would echo that

comment and I didn't have the

opportunity a moment ago, I will say it now.

You know, we have comprehensive

plans, we have small area plans, and we always get into a

discussion as to is that law, is

it, you know, governance aspect

of everything.

And, you know, we often say that

we try to go with that.

And we should go with that

wheever possible.

And occasionally we do deviate

from that for various reasons but we should have strong

reasons when we do that.

This is one of those situations,

and at this point in time, I

think a strong case has been made to support the

comprehensive plan, which I

think this does, it also we

should support the small area plan, which we're being told

right now it doesn't.

And we need to work towards that aspect of it.

One thing that was said that didn't get a follow-up for the

most part, Ms. Castro did say, you know, they are planners and

they have to look for the future.

Right now, that connection to

russell cave isn't there.

But it May be in the future.

So with that, I would encourage everybody to go back to the

drawing board, so to speak, and put your heads together and see

what you can come up with. I do find it interesting that in

all of this discussion, time is

of an essence and now we have 30 days.

I will commend you for that. We don't have the vote up on the

screen. There it is.

I would ask for a vote now.

So we do have a continuance until April 9. That motion passes.

Thank you, everyone.

Good luck.

We do have another issue or two.

Fayette commonons, plan mjdb30-4, 3750 mall road, there

is a revision on this, which is on a yellow sheet of paper

before you as well. >> Mr. Chairman, members of the

planning commission.

At the bottom of page 5 is the

major development plan, 20-4

fayette commons, and as you are aware, that lovely yellow piece

of paper are revised conditions

for the revised plan.

This -- let's say. Which direction am I looking

here? here we go.

This is the site here.

Mall road, road j drive, nichols

road, the theater, my big fingers, oops, wrong way.

This is the aerial of the

current site in the fayette commons area, adjacent to

fayette mall.

Again, the theater is to your right.

Here is the amended development

plan that is before you today.

They are proposing a hotel in

this location.

With shared parking in this area. The access will be primarily off

of mall road into this area, the primary issue that is addressed

is this area here how it will

function and function safely without impacting mall road.

They moved their dumpsters to this location.

They were up in here, that was

not feasible from the staff's estimation.

They have worked with us, with

that staff is submitting an approval as you can see, subject

to the conditions on the plan. They will have to address their

parking in the site statistics. That is -- we have just been

trying to express that to them. There are new requirements in

this zone. They need to put those on the

plan and demonstrate their compliance with such.

Briefly add there was concern

with this edge on road j drive. You can see extensive

landscaping. And they have room to add trees

and that sort of thing, which

will create a much better street

presence for this particular development.

and again, I know it has been a

long afternoon, so I'll be happy to answer any questions you May

have for staff.

>> questions for Mr. Martin?

No? Applicant?

Good evening, my name is jeremy pettitte, representing cbl.

We're in agreement with the conditions staff set forth.

Here to answer any questions.

>> any questions? You might be catching us at a

good time.

>> I meant to say good evening, not a good afternoon, right?

>> I caught that. >> any questions?

No? Ok. Thank you, sir. >> very much.

>> anyone else in the audience

wish to speak to this plan?

Staff, you got anything else?

You're comfortabe with everything? Ok.

If there is no questions, motion Ms. Mundi.

>> Mr. Chair, I move for

approval of plnmjdb20-4 fayette commons, amended with the 12

conditions as set forth by staff. >> thank you, motion has been

made for approval, seconded by

Mr. Bell for plan mjdb20-4, fayette commons with the revised

conditions totaling 12. That motion passes.

We have one other item on the

agenda, Mr. George mankel property. We have looked at this for a while.

We have revisions. It is on a green sheet of paper

before you. just like your shirt.

>> you have noticed --

>> >> blue, green, lavender. Spring colors.

>> he does have a green tie.

>> green tie, yes, sir. >> lovely spring colors.

>> here we are, out in athens, boons world road and cleveland

through here. This is the site in question.

This is the existing home. I want to tell you something.

This gentleman has been here and

just today with great patience. They have set through a lot and

been through a lot on this plan.

This plan has evolved.

At one point, we brought this gentleman back full circle to

where he began, all in an effort

to construct a workshop behind

his home, but it is b1. You know, there is a little bit

of b1 there in the heart of athens. That b1 zone created challenges.

Not the least of which is the need to build the structure to

the setbacks required in the b1.

They will be relocating their

line, possibly, if need be,

otherwise, they believe they can

accommodate the existing sewer.

That has been the real key to this, through the whole process

that we have gone through, in order to get to where we are tday.

You can see, there is a just a few conditions left, other than

your standard signoffs. Staff is recommending approval

of this plan, and I would add,

again, Mr. Mankel has been patient with the process, played

by the ruleses, followed the rules.

In case you are curious, he builds custom guitars.

so... If you want take a look some time and see what his art

is like, I'm sure he would welcome that.

Any questions for staff?

I will be happy to answer?

>> questions? Claim?

>> one quick one.

>> you have been quiet all day.

[Laughter]

>> don't poke the bear now! [Laughter]

>> number 11. Document health department

approval for shared septic system, if they don't approve

it, it doesn't happen, right? >> that is true.

They have that approval. >> thank you.

>> ok.

So any other questions? >> Mr. Chair? >> yes, sir.

>> I would like to -- >> hold on?

Do you have a question? >> no.

>> applicant, need to add anything?

>> [Off mic]

>> go to the microphone.

>> as tom said I have. >> your name, sir.

>> george whitehead mankel the third.

Property owner, petitioner.

>> I have been patient 11

months, taken his advice, planning, and we here stand

trying to get my building built. I thank you for following all

the rules that you are supposed to do.

I have done the same thing. I respect your patience because

what I sat through this afternoon would drive me up a

wall. >> the inefficient from this

side to you all blowses me away, that is my personal opinion.

I have nothing else to say other than thank you for your

cooperation, thank you for the role that you play, the stuff

you put up with for people trying to just do anything.

I have now feel I have rewritten history, in the quote last but -

not least.

I am last today I think I am the least.

I say that out of respect.

I want to put a building 28 feet center of the line like I'm -

supposed to. Let me do it, please. >> Mr. Penn?

>> I was going to comment that

if they allowed outlighthouses we could have fixed this a long

time ago.

>> you know what, two properties over there was one.

>> [Laughter]

>> tmi, tmi. >> and there are nice trees that

work well. >> I understand.

>> make a deposit if you would like to.

>> thank you, Mr. Mankel, justin, you dare add anything?

>> I do not. >> thank you, sir.

Mr. Bell? >> Mr. Chair, I recommend

approval of plmmjdp20-8, Mr. George mankel property with

the 11 conditions as so noted. >> thank you.

Motion has been made and

seconded by Ms. Mundi for

approval, plan mjdb20-8, george mankel property with the revised

11 conditions. please vote when it comes up on

your screen. Motion passes.

Thank you, folks, thank you for

your patience. No audience items, it doesn't

look like.

Commission items? Yes?

>> oh, gosh! Thank you, Mr. Vice chair.

We do have a performance and

bonds letter of credit, which is on cran

granicus, if anyone wants to look at it.

Otherwise, I need a motion for approval. >> so moved. >> second.

>> motion is moved and seconded for the called of bonds.

Please vote, if it comes up on the screen.

Otherwise -- oh, here it comes. >> I made the motion.

>> Mr. Wilson. >> Mr. Wilson.

>> sounds good.

>> I second.

>> get 'er done.

>> thank you, once again, Mr. Wilson. Mr. Duncan.

>> thank you, Mr. Chair, if I could have your attention for a

few more minutes. You know the state of the world,

state of our country right now things are very much in flux

about public meetings and get-togethers.

At this time, we're still

scheduled for our planning commission work session next thursday.

We have scheduled a guest to make a horse country

presentation to us and we also have staff items to bring to you.

However, we will be monitoring what the mayor and others say

about the need for public

meetings, so at this time, I

recommend unless you all want to take preemptive action that we

leave the schedule as status quo, however, with the option if

the government does close for

any reason or we get other guidance that we is certainly

communicate that to you all. That would also go for the

zoning hearing.

That is a little more serious. It is one thing to cans a work

session and another for a zoning hearing. If it gets to that point, we

will provide you all more guidance as well.

>> I would offer that we continue on taking direction

from our mayor.

And if they see a need to

suspend us, then so be it.

Otherwise, let each individual

act responsibly and accordingly

as needed for their own sake. >> Mr. Chair? >> yes.

>> the governor just announced

that he's -- school is going to close for two weeks starting monday. >> ok.

>> so I know -- I'm only one -- maybe bruce got little ones.

>> that means. >> I will be home.

I will warn you now.

>> we can put in a day care center. >> I can put them back there.

>> ok.

>> anybody got teenagers that can come back.

>> with that said, any other comments? yes, sir?

>> only thing I would like to say is the horse country

presentation is an update from five years ago, and it is really

truly exciting the progress that

has been made, and fully respect the concern for one's health,

but it is not just -- I would

love -- we'd love for y'all to

hear from ann hardy on the process. >> hopefully we will continue next week.

If not, we will -- if not, we'll

invite them back accordingly.

So anything else from anyone? If not, I appreciate everyone's

patience today.

I'll declare this meeting adjourned.