Is there any public comment related to issues on the agenda? Hearing none, is there a motion for approval of the document? Second. Time out, time out, time out. I'm looking at the wrong agenda. There is no docket. Motion to approve the summary. There is no docket, right. Second. Motion to approve the summary and a second. There is a motion and a second. Is there discussion? All in favor, please say aye. Aye. All opposed, no. Motion carries. Last item on our agenda today is the budget amendments. Point of order. Yes. Aren't we supposed to have a special meeting about the budget first? No, there is an error on that. We are going to get to the budget under new business. Thank you. Right. Budget amendments, item, Roman numeral number four. There are none. Move approval of new business. There is a motion and a second for approval of new business. Is there any discussion? Hearing none, Dr. Stephens. I think it would be appropriate at this time to offer the motion from the Committee of the Whole as part of new business and this motion I will make. I make a motion to place on the Urban County Council meeting docket of June 24, 2008, the fiscal year 2009, Mayor's proposed budget as amended by votes of the Council Committee of the Whole. Second. And a detailed schedule is being prepared by the Budget Department and will be available by Thursday. We have a motion and we have several seconds. Is there any discussion? Hearing none, all in favor of the motion as stated by Dr. Stephens, please say aye. Aye. All opposed, no. Motion carries. All right, before we move in. It would probably be appropriate to record the vote. All right. Yep, yep, yep. All right, let's. Use your electronic voting instruments. Absent Councilmember Beard, is it yours functioning? And Councilmember Henson? All right. Well we have it. Thank you. I hope that everybody's got it, Dr. Stephens. Yes, sir. All right, before we, on Roman numeral number six, continuing business presentations. Yes, sir. Is your thing working? It is. Okay. I have a question on item O. New business. New business, yes. I don't know if there, is there someone here that can respond to item O? It looks like Commissioner Askew is coming down. Maybe. Is there someone here to speak on this? On item O? Maybe I should just ask the question and that way if someone knows the answer they can respond. My question specifically is, I'm not, I just need clarification, and I'm sorry I wasn't able to ask this prior to the meeting, but what does a charitable gaming license mean? Looks like the Downtown Lexington Corporation is asking for a charitable gaming license. I know from our visit to Austin, gaming means electronic gaming, like computerized gaming, but I'm guessing that's not what that means in this case. I am not certain what the specific request was, but I'm going to get an answer for that for you here in just a minute. Okay. You'll let me come back to you here in just a few minutes? Sure. We may have to pull that item if we need to move forward with, if we don't have a response on that. I would request that we, unless someone here around the council knows what that means and what's intended. Bingo? It's bingo? I believe that would be in order, that would be a charitable non-profit type of gaming activity. Okay. So. There are all kinds of raffles that take place. I think you're asking Council Member James about the specific request that was made, and I'm not sure right what exactly it is that they're asking to do, and I'm not sure with the specifics about that, but let me check on that quickly, and I'll come right back to you. Okay. Thank you. Okay. So, are you asking, we're not going to wait on this, are we? What's the procedure? I can move to table item O, if that helps us proceed. Okay. There's a motion and a second to table item O from new business. Is there any discussion? There's no discussion. There's no discussion. That's right. All in favor, please say aye to the table. Aye. Opposed? No. Item O is tabled. All right. Remaining items of new business, then, we have a motion on the floor. Mr. McCord, and then Mr. Lane. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Councilman James, if you look on page 41, there's a detailed description, I believe, that goes to what you're asking about, they want to do a charitable raffle, basically that's what that temporary gaming license amounts to, but there's a letter specific to that, if that helps. I read that. It's not specific enough. Thank you. My question is on item C. Commissioner Cole, just real quickly, this is for the acceptance of a grant from the Gold Office, Commissioner Cole, sorry, I have to enunciate. This is just to receive the grant from the Governor's Office of Local Development for the Recreational Trails. I'm just asking specifically where this was. I was under the impression we did not receive anything this funding cycle. Could you just, you don't have to come to the mic, would you mind just helping me after this is over with and showing me where that goes? Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Thank you. Mr. Bennett. I believe Mr. Lane was before me. Mr. Lane. Thank you, Vice Mayor. I may have skipped over this, but I need to move to place on the docket for the first reading at the Tuesday, June 24, 2008, Council meeting, item number B, an ordinance amending sections 13.5 and 13.9 of the Code of Ordinances to establish an annual minimum. Mr. Lane, just a second. Can we hold this until we have a motion on the floor right now? It would be okay with you? All right. Thank you, sir. Thank you so much. Mr. Stennett. Thank you, Vice Mayor. On item P, I believe we have someone from engineering here to speak to item P. I guess my big question is I know we're in the process of actually unloading land in LFUCG's inventory. Why are we accepting more land? And if we are going to accept this detention area, are all the detention areas now going to be maintained by engineering? Can anybody speak to this one? Because we're taking on, once again, more maintenance and more mowing, and we get the phone calls. And every time we call, either we don't have enough mowing money to do the job or that's not our detention basin. So I thought we were going to review every process of accepting these before we accept any other ones. I know we've talked about extensive over the last two years, and yet I see one before is accepting another piece of land that, once again, we've got to spend dollars to take care of. There's been a question. While Mr. Baltimore is coming, there's been a question. Which item is this, Mr. Stennett? Would be P as in Paul. Thank you. I think they will be maintained, they will be accepted and maintained by the Division of Water Quality, but I think Commissioner... So engineering no longer is maintaining any retention basins or detention basins? Water Quality will. All of them? Yes. The ones that they accept for maintenance, they will be maintaining, yes. Okay, so there are some that they do not maintain, that are maintained either by parks or by... That is correct, by private... Okay, I thought we were under the process of putting all of them under one roof. Are we not trying to do that so that we have one contract for mowing these things? That's why we're in favor of the EPA. I mean, we're not maintaining these things like they should be. I know that issue came up. Where are we at on that? I mean, before I vote to accept another piece, we need to be very clear about how we're going to maintain these going forward. Commissioner Taylor. I'm sorry. Let me make sure I'm answering the question correctly. What did you need? Sorry. Maintenance of all detention basins? No. We're voting on PEED to accept yet another detention basin. My question is, who is maintaining every single detention basin that we own, and do we have the funds in this year's budget to accept another piece? Because every time we ask to have one mowed, it seems like we don't have enough money, or that's something parks does, and we're putting the burden on parks. Who is going to maintain our detention basins and retention basins going forward? Ultimately, the accountability for these devices will rest in my area. Right now, what we're trying to do, we have somewhere in the neighborhood of 1,300 of these detention basins in the county, and right now, some of them are maintained by our group. We mow. Some by parks, they mow. Some of them, we contract, and it's a little bit scattered, but we're in the process of and have made a list of all of the basins, both that the city owns and that are privately owned, not only so we can maintain them, but also because now we have to inspect them, and beginning the month after the consent decree is finished, then we begin in hopefully August. We have to do inspections for the majority of those every single month, so we're sorting it out. We do have money in the budget. We earmarked about $300,000 for maintenance for greenways, and we still have to work through some issues to make sure every single one has an accountable person for that, but that's the plan at this point. That's being worked out. In fact, we meet on it a couple times this week already in that particular item, so if there's a particular one, I can find out. By August, you'll have a new process going forward? We have to, yes. That's required. Just want to make sure that we're... It's a little bit in flux, but the first step was identifying all of them, where they are currently, who does it now, where are the holes, and then come up with the best solution to have them all maintained, and we're looking at everything from bringing in more contract mowing service. We have some of them actually get cut for hay, and so we have a variety of things have been maintained in a different way, and we're trying to pull those into one system. Okay. I just know Parks has always got the blunt of, well, every time we set a piece of property, go mow it. They do, and they have the equipment and the people, and we have to work through to make sure that every single one has an owner. That's what we need to do. Okay. And it's not done yet. So you'll be the owner of this one, and you have the money to maintain it? Yes. Thank you, ma'am. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Stennett. Any further discussion on items of new business? All right. Hearing none, we have a motion and a second. All in favor to accept new business, please say aye. Aye. All opposed, no. Motion carried. All right. Moving on to item Roman numeral number six, continuing business and presentations. The agenda calls for the live United Day proclamation. Before that, I'd like to allow Councilmember Ellinger to introduce the senior interns so they can move along. Thank you, Vice Mayor. I just want to take a minute to welcome our senior intern class. This is the 24th class of the senior interns. I want to thank all the government employees who take the time to educate our seniors. I hope they've had a good week. They started Monday. They've been here all day since 8.30. They go from about 8.30 to 3.30 every day, and then on Friday, they have alumni luncheon with over 200 people that meet at the Hyatt and where they graduate. So I just want to welcome here to the work session. Hope you're having a good week, and you just have a few more days to graduate. So good luck. Thank you. Thank you, Councilmember Ellinger. It's been suggested that the senior interns please stand before you all exit the chambers. Thank you all. And be recognized. Thank you. Thank you, Councilmember Myers. Thank you, Councilmember Ellinger. I know you all worked hard on this. Thank you all so much. Okay. The next on our agenda is the Live United Day proclamation, and that's going to be presented by Councilmember Gorton. Don't stand up beside me. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Live United or Live? Actually, Live United. Live United. That's how we're all going to live. There we go. Okay. Thank you. And thank you very much. And I'm so happy to have with me Kathy Plowman, who is the Director, Chairman, President, Head Honcho of United Way of the Bluegrass. And this is a wonderful concept. In fact, when I got my button in Austin, I told her how really inspirational I think this is. So I'm happy to read and present you this proclamation. And then if you'd like to say a few words, we'd welcome that. So this is a proclamation by Jim Newberry, the Mayor, Lexington-Fayette-Urban County Government to all to whom these presents shall come, whereas the entire community can effect positive change through actions, big and small, and whereas Live United defines a united way of bringing everyone together, every resident, every family, every corporation, every charity, every non-profit organization to change lives and conditions in Lexington and beyond, and whereas citizens Live United by giving, advocating, and volunteering in support of the community and its citizens, and whereas through its Live United campaign, the United Way calls upon the community to join together to ensure that Lexington provides the building blocks all citizens need for a good life, a quality education that leads to a stable job, income that can support a family through retirement and good health, and whereas citizens who reach out with a caring hand in support of their fellow citizens make Lexington a better place for everyone. Now therefore, Jim Newberry, Mayor of the Lexington-Fayette-Urban County Government does proclaim June 20th, 2008 as Live United Day in Lexington and urges every citizen to Live United for a better community. And I'll give this to Kathy and ask you to say a few words if you would. Thank you, Councilwoman Gordon, and Vice Mayor, Councilmembers, thank you so much for the recognition and appreciation of the Live United. Please share that appreciation with Mayor Newberry for the proclamation. But as mentioned, on Friday, June the 20th, the entire community will be involved or can be involved in the Live United Day, starting at 6.15 in the morning with the mayor, actually, and going until 4.30. You will be involved in activities that represent what can be done in the areas of health, access to health, education, and also financial stability. So thank you for Living United, and if permitted, could we leave some of these buttons for the additional folks in the room at the back? We will do it. We'll look forward to seeing you to continue Living United Friday and on. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Councilmember Gordon. Next on the agenda are Council reports, if you all will indicate. There we go. All right. In this order, it looks like Councilmember, I just lost, I know I just lost, started with, all right. Councilmember Gordon, then Myers, then Lane. Okay. Thank you, Vice Mayor. I had two issues. The first is on this coming Thursday, June the 19th, is Dump the Pump Week. So everyone can get on the bus free and ride free, and if you need, you can also get on the American Red Cross Wheels vans. And so the public transit will be free to the citizens on Thursday, and I'd like to encourage everyone to take advantage of that and try out our LexTran services. So that's this Thursday, June the 19th. And then the second item I wanted to highlight for the public is, in the past, the Lexington History Museum has only been open on the weekends. And for this summer, through August the 15th, it's going to be open seven days a week, from noon to 4 p.m. during the week, and on Saturdays, it'll be open at 10 a.m. And I think that's a really good opportunity for the community to get to know Lexington's history. We have several wonderful exhibits there right now. And if you want to find out more, you can go to the website, which is www.lexingtonhistorymuseum.org. So go to the History Museum this summer. Councilmember Myers. Thank you, Vice Mayor. I would like to recognize the citizen's advocate, Ms. Joan Beck. Thank you, Councilmember Myers. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. In February, I reported to this Council about problems associated with the approval of plans and construction of stormwater facilities. In essence, the regulator, the LFUCG, relies on the regulated, the consulting engineers, to verify compliance with stormwater management regulations. I wish I could report to you that things are improving, but instead, I must report that the situation is not good for the citizens of Lexington. And I have an example that I've brought today. Do we have that map? There's an existing church next to an established neighborhood that wanted to expand, and that's a good thing. They added on and enlarged the parking area. But the new parking area, let's see, here, I'm not so good with this pointer thing. It drains into the south lot line, which abuts several homes. And the building addition also sheds water across a ball field and in the direction of the same neighbors. When the neighbors pointed out the additional water in their yards, the church put up a berm along that property line. The berm is about, oh, 12 to 18 inches tall, but it doesn't go the entire length of the rear property line. So water goes around and over the berm and into their backyards, even when it's not a significant rain event. Now, the neighbors have attempted to talk with the engineer and with the property owner, and they've attempted to talk to Lexington officials. They asked their council member, Mr. Myers, to intercede, and they asked me to intercede as well. Well, Mr. Myers and I neither have been able to engage the conversation with the administration. Well, why should they? Present regulations allow the urban county government to bow out and to shift the burden to the homeowner to create a battle of experts. But the act of the construction that created the problem destroys the neighbor's ability to prove the preexisting condition. So two citizens are here today who can show you what happened to their homes and their backyards. Allie Hendricks and Carol Mingo, who are residents and citizens of Heartland Parkway, would like to tell you of their experiences. Mrs. Hendricks, if you'd like to come and explain to the council what you've tried to do. What I want to do today is lay out what this problem is and then offer a proposed way to address this. Yes. Thank you very much for letting me talk to you. I live on Heartland Parkway and there are approximately nine or ten other houses whose backyard backs up to the Tate's Creek Presbyterian Church property. On the church property, they have dug out a great deal of land and made a soccer field, which is, the field is quite hard, so when it rains, there's pools of water in it. Not only have they built a soccer field, but they've built any number of parking lots, one of which aims directly at the property that I've mentioned. This has led to what you see in the picture there of just huge amounts of water coming onto the back end of our property. Just to illustrate, this spring there was quite a big rain and I looked out the back window and there were pools in the soccer field and there were ducks swimming in them, so you can imagine how much water there is. The problem with all this water is that it really is ruining the property because a great deal of the soil has been washed off and it's practically impossible to grow things there and presents a very ugly situation. I've talked to the minister at the church and I've talked to the lawyer that works for the church. I had somebody from the engineering department come to see the situation and Mr. Myers has come a number of times and we've talked and emailed and nothing seems to happen. They did build a berm, but since I was the major complainer, they did put it on their property behind my property, but it then ended just a little bit before my property ended and did not continue the berm for the properties below me. If you have any questions or do I need to add any more explanation? Thank you. Good afternoon. My name is Carol Mignot and I live at 4692 Heartland Parkway, which is downstream from Allie Kendrick's house and I am the big recipient of all of this that's rushing through her backyard. I have lived at this address since December of 1989. At that time I was the last resident and none of what you see on the map today existed and the church was just a church and not an educational and athletic complex that it is today. In addition to her description of the water that comes down the back of Heartland Parkway, I am also the recipient of water that comes in a perpendicular direction. So we have two things meeting at the corner of my backyard. And when we met with representatives from the church, I pointed out where the sources of the runoff were occurring and said that indeed what once was sloping, grassy, absorbent lands has been converted into sloping asphalt. And we all know what happens when water meets that. So in addition to the back lots of residents on Heartland Parkway, there is also water streaming along the back line from the family center running perpendicular through a wooded area and joining forces and all of this is converging in my backyard and during heavy rains the fence that I have is of no consequence because the power of the water forces its way in between the fence boards sometimes to a height of six inches. So in addition to just coping with running water, which is controlled to an extent by a catch basin that Ball Homes installed in 1989, the catch basin really cannot keep pace during our frequent thunder and cloudburst types of storms. And all I can do is just listen to the roar of the water at night knowing that it has flushed out to probably a six foot circumference around this catch basin and it takes days before all of this finally drains away and is conducted out into the storm system. Now imagine about a year from now when I plan to put my home on the market and someone shows up to look at my home and sees this inundation of water. Well there goes that possible sale. And of course I'm experiencing soil erosion and damage to the fence. I have purchased and installed myself sort of like garden border materials from garden shops on both sides of the fence to attempt to at least slow the water down. And it just seems that we have been left to our own devices. We are told by the church representatives that this is just normal and that that is what we have to live with. So I'm appealing to you today to find out what the city can do to remedy this situation. Thank you for your time. Thank you Ms. Hendricks. We can't resolve problems of this nature if we can't meet and discuss them. And we can't continue to ignore neighbors' complaints while we wait for EPA-induced code modifications. Indeed, development is not waiting. In the interim, until new code requirements are put into effect, I recommend that the Services Committee of the Council review the facts related to this case and the injury it has caused to adjoining property owners with the intention of developing a mechanism for addressing neighbors' concerns with stormwater issues in the future. Thank you. Council Member Myers, there are a couple of questions. Okay. Council Member Gordon, do you want to go first? Yes, please. All right. Okay. I want to thank the two citizens for coming in. And I'm sorry that you had to come in and address this body in order to hopefully get some relief from what's going on. We've been trying to address this issue for a little more than a year now. I've spoken with the mayor on two occasions, the chief of staff on two occasions, Don Kelly on a couple of occasions, Joe Kelly on one occasion to get this rectified. It seems that when the church was given its development, when the church designed its development plan to expand, there was, and I don't know what it's called, but there was an apparatus that was supposed to be put in place to rectify the situation. At some point, somebody in this government told them they didn't have to do that as part of their development plan. We haven't really been able to ascertain who it was that told them they didn't have to do it. But we see it's in the plan, and we see that it didn't happen. And so I don't know what the remedy is to the situation. I know that I've been out there on numerous occasions in ankle-deep water. The land has eroded. You can look at the fence line on one of the properties and see how far underneath the fence the land has eroded. So I'm not sure what the answer is on how we fix this. I'm not sure if it's we go back and have the engineering apparatus installed. But I do think that maybe this is the best thing to do is to put it in the committee and we can investigate and find out why that didn't happen and what we need to do moving forward. Thank you. There are a couple of Councilmembers, Gordon and James, and Stennett. I wanted to, Commissioner Kelly, I wanted to ask you a couple of questions, please. I think you now have planning, is that correct? Okay. And Councilmembers, I apologize. You have heard me talk about this before, but I'm going to talk about it again. Here's the situation as I see it on the surface. This is another situation where this property owner had to come to the government for either a final development plan or the Board of Adjustment. I don't know if they had to go to the Board of Adjustment since they would be a conditional use to get approval for this expansion. And there's a little checkoff list, remember? Sanitary sewers, stormwater, all of those technical checkoffs. And they are not, I'm very convinced that stormwater has not been given due diligence. We've had this issue before. So I appeal to you, this is not the first time this has happened when a development is approved and the stormwater is checked off. And the question I asked in stormwater oversight more than a year ago was, when the checkoff is made on stormwater, does that mean we have a pipe or does that mean we can handle the amount of stormwater that's planned to come through there? It means we have a pipe. And I'm very concerned, and I'm going to just appeal to you, we're in this EPA consent decree and this kind of problem can impact the sanitary sewers. And when can we fix this little technical checkoff that I don't believe is working properly as it should? And I ask you, can planning look into that? Can they make a recommendation? We've got to fix this. Well, I think we can work with environmental quality to figure out how to correct it. I think that's the issue. It overlaps more than that. I am, unfortunately, very familiar with this situation and I could talk longer than they've talked. But, you know, it is an interesting, there was a lot of work done to take care of the water, to handle the surface water. But we've had some very severe storms in the last three years, which you very well know. So, you know, I'm not sure that we would have done anything differently if we hadn't had that little checkoff. What we need to do is resolve the issue, I think is the main thing. Well, you're familiar with the zone change we had within the past month or two where the council disapproved a zone change because of the sanitary sewer issues in the surrounding neighborhoods. And the question came up then as to how do we ensure that the neighborhoods surrounding the new development won't be impacted. And somehow we've got to get to that or we will continue to have these kinds of problems. And I don't know if we need to increase our, if we only plan for a 25-year flood or storm and then we get 400 years in four years or what needs to be considered. But I would hope that this sort of situation doesn't occur in the future. I know it's important to you because we've talked about it. But this shouldn't be happening. And so I think council members want to figure out how to fix it before it happens. It doesn't help you right now, what I'm saying, but if we can fix it so that future people don't have to deal with this, we will have gone a long way to solve some of the stormwater issues. So I appreciate that you're looking into it and I'll look forward to that recommendation. Councilmember Blevins, then Councilmember Layne, and then back to Councilmember Myers. Oh, that's right, I did ask. No, she's council report. You're, did, did you want, yeah, you had first, right? Sorry about that. Thank you, Vice Mayor. You know, if I had a list of all the situations like this in my district, I'd hand it out to everybody. You know I've preached about this exact problem and I know I have worked with the administration to try to rectify some of these. And time and time again we're told that it's a situation between private property owners and that they need to hire their own attorney and go to court. And you know, getting back to Councilmember Gordon's point, yeah, if we can catch on the front end, great. But let's try to work to do that. But now we have situations where we're already in it. I mean, we've got to help the people that live around these properties that have already been developed. And you know, I can't emphasize enough the frustration that the property owners go through trying to get an answer from LFUCG, yet they need to go out, they're recommended to go out and hire their own attorney, and it's a civil matter between two property owners. And I would hope that, I know Logan Askew is here, our Commissioner of Law, that there's something we can come up with better than to tell people that. I mean, I've dealt with this for two years in my district on several occasions. And yeah, sometimes there isn't a good answer, but we need to find everything we can do. Surely there's a better answer, I guess is what I'm trying to say, to help these people in this situation, as well as the ones in everybody's district. We have $130 million of stormwater projects on the list for a reason. We know there's issues out there. I'm not sure this is the best venue to vent this today, but it's probably an issue instead of going to the Services Committee, it really needs to go to the Stormwater Oversight Committee to help work on that, because we've dealt with a lot of stormwater issues, and Councilmember Gordon chairs that, and I would think she would accept that into our committee. Versus Service, I'm not sure if it belongs in Services, but I would support definitely going into the Stormwater Oversight. Okay. Councilmember Blevins, you want to speak on this subject, right? And Councilmember Lane, you do as well, right? You want to speak on this subject, right? Okay. Councilmember Blevins. Thank you, Vice Mayor. I was going to answer Councilmember Gordon's question. What happened was back in about 2001, we changed our policies in this government to go from reviewing development plans to not reviewing development plans. We review zero development plans with engineering studies, zero. We accept them is all we do, with the belief that the engineering license from the engineer who did the work in this particular example, having done his job credibly, and if he has not, then his engineering license is subject to change in status, let's say it that way. One of two things has clearly happened here, either an engineer has made a poor design of the stormwater runoff and detention capabilities of this property, or he did a proper design and it wasn't built correctly, because clearly the water is there. There's no doubt about that. So now we've got to decide, is it a design issue or is it an implementation issue? What I want to draw our attention back to is, during the budget, we talked once again about having our engineering department step back up and provide some protection to our citizens, which we have not done in this case. The engineering thing that needs to occur is review of at least some development plans at some level. We've already discussed that it's impossible to review all of them in depth, because it would require a staff the size of a small nation. On the other hand, I believe it is possible to do cursory reviews of nearly everyone and some in-depth reviews of a few that make sense. Had that been done in this case, we might have been able to catch it before it occurred. As a part of the budget process, I'll remind Council that we've allocated $25,000 to the Commissioner's Office over engineering. As a part of the ongoing management audit study of the planning permit process, Mr. Joe Kelly has told us that those two combinations should allow them to come up with a way that we can reliably and responsibly and efficiently review development plans from here on. That's the key change that needs to occur here. We need to have engineering capability to catch this on the front end. On the back end, it still counts, too. I would encourage Councilmember Myers that you look at the planning process and possibly there's got to be a conditional use permit here, and it's clearly not being lived up to. That's the avenue that we could also take. The final one is legal action, and that sometimes is what needs to occur. That's all I have. Mr. Lane? I had a question for Commissioner Kelly, please. My number one concern is that we haven't been able to fix the problem, so it's just continuing onward and I guess still flooding the neighbor's property. The reason nothing has been done is we have no way to do it legally, or we have no mechanism to do it, and it's going to be a litigation issue, or is there something we can do to get this resolved? We can attempt to work with them to get them to do more than what has been done. One of the problems the lady mentioned, the drain in her backyard, that was there before the church was done. I mean, that was built as part of the subdivision development. Drain from the new construction there, other than what was already on the existing, and it's without a pointer, I can't point it out, but was drained into a retention basin on the other side of the church. Off that parking lot, off the soccer field, the soccer field is about as flat as this surface here, is where the runoff occurs that's in question, and like I said, we've had three really, really major rains in the last year and a half that have contributed greatly to this runoff. Well, I noticed the aerial photo was dated 2004. Does that accurately reflect the improvements now, or is that an old photo? Some of that was under construction at that time, yes. Do you have somebody on your staff that could go out and interface with the parties and make a personal appeal to resolve this problem? Because I find it's very frustrating that our people have property and they've got flooding coming on. They've got, for example, out at Saron Drive, it's been very frustrating. It's taken forever to get the landscaping done out there. We need to get more proactive in fixing problems and respond to them on a more timely basis. It just makes me upset that we have problems like this and we can't get them fixed, and it wastes a lot of time because here we're spending time with the council, and frankly, referring it into the committee, I think it might be good for policy purposes, but the committee only meets once a month, and so this could take a year to go through the committee if we had hearings and got information on it. So I think being proactive at your level is the best approach. That's all I've got. Thank you for your comment. If I could add something to this discussion. I think in the interest of full disclosure, I think it's only fair to disclose that Commissioner Kelly is a member of this church, and I believe that we were told in the beginning that he has a role on some committee or something there over facilities, and part of the problem here is not that we've had three or four big rains in the last year and a half, because I've been out there when we don't have a big rain event and we still have the same problem, and part of the problem is when you look up in the left-hand corner there where you see that parking lot that comes off, the water's coming off the backside of that parking lot, so the berm that they built, which actually is the dark area there in the grass, the water's already on the opposite side of the berm when it starts to run, so it's water runoff from the parking lot that's the issue, but the reason that I wanted to put it in the committee is because when you look at their development plan, there was a stormwater mitigation apparatus that was supposed to be installed in this project, and at some point engineering went back and said they did not have to do it, so it's not a matter of reviewing the development plan after it's done, it's a matter of somebody in engineering said they do not have to do the stormwater mitigation apparatus, I don't know what it's called, and I'm not an engineer, so I don't know for a fact that that's why this is happening, but the reason I wanted to go into committee is because I want to find out why that was put in the plan in the beginning and then at some point taken out of the plan, and then we see the result of it not having a stormwater plan is why we're here today. So those are the concerns for me, I've been trying to get this issue looked at, I met with Commissioner Kelly when he first came on board, we talked about this, and I'll be honest with you, what he told me was that those are just two disgruntled residents, and that I think is part of the reason why we are where we are today in this particular project or problem, and so I want it resolved, I want it resolved quickly, but I don't know the answers, so that's why we're here today, and that's also why I asked the citizens advocate to look into this, because this is one of the reasons why that office is here, is when people don't get out of government what they're supposed to get, and council members can't get things done through the administration, then that role can do that, and so that's why we're here. Mr. Lane, Mr. Kelly, would you like to respond? Yeah, I have a follow-up question for Commissioner Kelly, see, currently, I believe our policy is that a site and development plan is made by an engineer, and part of that would be storm drainage, storm flow, you know, retention of the flow that's coming out, and that the engineer that draws that plan certifies it, and I was under the impression they were legally responsible for the design, since the Irvin County government relies on their expertise. What would be the possibility of bringing in, I don't know who the engineer is, but holding some accountability to the engineer that designed this plan, and perhaps we should start more aggressively enforcing the requirement if they design it, they're responsible for it. I'll just make one comment. This structure right here is an education, or a gymnasium, recreation center, was originally scheduled to be built down in this flat area. That was the reason that this detention structure that they were talking about was scheduled to be built. When it was decided to be built up here, all the water from one side of that drains over into this retention basin, but a little bit from this other side drains down into here, and so the engineer at that time said that the structure was not needed, and that's the reason for it, and I concurred with that at the time. I mean, I was not in this position. I am a former member of that church, Mr. Myers, by the way. So are you saying you feel that the engineering information was accurate? At the time, I agree, yes, sir. Okay. Well, even if it was wrong, isn't it still a responsibility of the engineer that prepared the data to be responsible for it? I would recommend that there are some engineers in the church who are very competent. I would recommend that we work with them to try to get this resolved. Okay. Well, I would encourage the church. I mean, you know, they're a part of the neighborhood. You know, I would be heartbroken if I had water running in my backyard every time there was some major rain, and that concerns me. I understand. Thank you again. Mr. Stemmett. To follow up on Councilmember Lane's point and Councilmember Myers, you know, we're actually agreeing to meet hopefully this week on this very issue in my district on a property that was just built that's flooding the neighborhood now. My question is to Mr. Kelly and to maybe Marwan, you can answer this. How many outside engineers have we held accountable since the law changed in 2001? Have we held anyone accountable to stick by their developing plan? I asked this six months ago in our stormwater meeting, and the answer was told no. Have we not even tried to hold people accountable for their plans they're submitting to us? As far as I know, we haven't. But I can go back only three years since I've been back here, three years. Before that, I'm not aware of. So can we? We can. Definitely we can. Yes. We can hold engineers accountable. I'm going to bring you one this afternoon that I'm ready to go with. Let's go. If there is an error in design or there's an omission in design, we can hold them accountable for that. And how would you determine an error? I mean, will you go out and do the calculations for this property and other ones? If there is a problem similar to this, where we discover that the report that was submitted, there's a drainage report that is submitted with every project. If we discover that there is a problem with that, okay, after construction, we can go back to the report, study the report, and see if there is any problem with that report. If there is, then we can go back to the engineer. Now, if there is an intentional omission or problem there We're not saying there's an intention, but obviously there's something wrong. It doesn't have to be intentional. But if there is a problem with it, we can go to the Board of Registration in Frankfort. Well, we need to start doing that. I mean, obviously we have clear-cut issues in our community with new development that is flooding existing residents. And if we're not going to start holding people accountable, then I agree with Councilman Gordon, we need to change our whole process and start looking at plans and doing it ourselves. We've got to do one or the other because the current process is not working. I know you inherited it as well as I did. But hopefully we're working towards changing that in your area and other areas of government. Yes, we are. There's another issue involved when there's a problem like this, and it could be, as Commissioner Blevins said, the construction part of it could have been done wrong. So it's not only the engineer, but the contractor could be held accountable too. Well, I don't care who we hold accountable, as long as it's somebody. Yes, what I'm trying to say is it's not only the engineers, but the contractors can also be held accountable. Sure. I'm sure we have a list we can create of accountability. Right. But as long as we're going to start working towards that, I think it's time we start putting some teeth behind some of our ordinances and do that. Thank you. I appreciate that. And, you know, I share Councilman Meyers' frustration. It is hard to try to find the answers, especially when we're told that these systems are designed for what I believe, I think, is a 25- or 50-year reign, but it seems like we're having those every week now. Right. Two weeks ago, we had one, and on a Tuesday morning before a Council meeting, and, you know, it's hard to keep telling people, oh, these are unordinary reigns, but, you know, hold on. We'll fix it. You know, so I thank you for bringing this up, Councilman Meyers. It's definitely a tough issue to deal with, but, you know, from my end, the Administration has worked good with my office in trying to get a resolution to a lot of these matters. I don't know what your experience has been, Ms. Beck, but I haven't had the same adversarial comments from the Administration as you report here, but I do know we've got to find a solution. Having said that, I'll rest. Thank you. Councilmember Lane, then Councilmember Beard. Yes, sir. Marwan, I have a follow-up question for you, please, sir. If a decision were to be made to hold an engineer responsible for the design of the storm drainage and detention area, who makes that decision? Whether to take him to or her to? Yes, sir. I guess I would have to make that decision. Okay. Well, then. And then, of course, I would consult with Commissioner Kelly. Right. All right. Well, all I'm saying is then, obviously, if you haven't made the decision, we have a call in by a responsible. I mean, in your earlier question, you said you didn't know that we'd ever done it or not. Do you have a call in the shot when you know whether you did it or not? I mean, I just was curious. What I'm saying is I know for sure in the last three years we have not done it. Okay. Okay. Before that, I'm not sure if it was done or not. Okay. I like that answer a lot better. Thank you. I'm sorry. But just one follow-up to Mr. Stennett's remarks about rain in the last few months. We prepared this for another issue, but it would be interesting to note here. From October 1st of 2007 until May 31st of 2008, we had 102 rain days, a total of 42.98 inches. The normal for that period of time is 29.64 inches. We've had a lot of rain in the last several months. Well, it sounds like we need to change our policy then. I mean, we're not going backwards in rain. It sounds like we're increasing, so we need to change our manuals and design for 100-year rain then. Well, our design is based on certain historical facts, you know. Well, history has changed, obviously. I understand that, and we may need to do that. You're right. Mr. Beard. Mr. Marwong, if you don't mind, and I'm not sure you're the person to answer this, but the engineering, the engineers and or engineering companies, are they bonded, like a contractor might be bonded? We do not require a bond for the engineers. I don't think we do. No, I don't think we do. Is that out of the question? Has anybody heard of that being done anywhere? We bond contractors. I know contractors get bonded. Why not engineers? If an engineer makes a mistake, it's like a malpractice type of situation, and how do we know he can have the wherewithal to fix his mistake? Holding somebody accountable, you're shaking their finger at them, doesn't really get the job done. They are required to have professional liability insurance. They are? Yes. Which would be the same thing. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Ms. Beck. Thank you, Mr. Gray. I don't know if you realize it, but this has been an aha moment today, and I thank you so much for the opportunity in this forum to bring the issue forward. I still strongly urge you to move this. Your oversight is great, and perhaps we can set up a structure through which complaints like this could be handled in the future so that they don't have to come before you at a work session. And so, again, I would ask for a motion to study this issue and to perhaps lead to the development of procedures to address stormwater management complaints from adjoining property owners. Mr. Myers. Thank you, Ms. Beck. And I move to go ahead and put this issue into the Stormwater Oversight Committee, if the Chair will have it, with the expectation that we not only find a solution for this problem but also come up with a set of policy recommendations to help us move forward. So moved. There's a motion and a second. Is there discussion? Councilmember Gordon. I just wanted to let Councilmembers know the next Stormwater Oversight Committee is August 26th. So we could start our work then. Any further discussion? All in favor of the motion, please say aye. Aye. All opposed, no. Motion carries. I would like to bring one other matter to your attention, another matter which I have not been able to resolve. For several weeks, indeed a few months, I've been investigating two serious complaints involving waste management. If true, the allegations are clear violations of policies contained in the employee handbook and possibly more than that. The policies in question are Disciplinary Actions 2 and 10A of the Uniform Disciplinary Code, and the conduct alleged is conversion of public property for private use and damage or destruction of public property. Despite repeated requests for information from management, I have not received any. In the absence of any substantive response, I can only make my conclusions based on the information that I have at hand. I do not intend to disclose any further information in this regard in open session because I believe it would be more appropriately handled in a closed session. But I do instead recommend that the Intergovernmental Committee of the Council examine the facts related to these waste management allegations and determine whether disciplinary action or supervisory action is in order. I've brought these two cases to you today to illustrate the lack of cooperation that we are experiencing in my office. I sincerely hope that we can have a clear and frank discussion on the purpose and function of the Citizens Advocate Office shortly into the new fiscal year, so that we can equip the advocate, whether it's me or someone else, with the tools necessary to do the job. Currently, the authority and credibility of this office has been undermined to the extent that the Administration overlooks or ignores this office. Our efforts at resolution are met with a defensive or even adversarial posture, when in fact our mission is to promote fairness and efficiency throughout this public Administration. We are, in extension, a vital arm of you, the Council. We are oftentimes your eyes and ears. But only with your support can we do the job that's set forth by the Charter in the way it was intended. With this in mind, I look forward to our conversations with you to determine whether I have your confidence and whether this office has the tools and credibility it needs to achieve its mission. I would again urge you to move to the Intergovernmental Committee the question of these waste management allegations and I thank you very much for your attention today. Thank you, Ms. Beck. Mr. Lane. Thanks, sir. Ms. Beck, I have a question for you. I think the two thoughts that I had, one is that this looks like it could be an HR program and one it looks like it could be a criminal issue. Have you referred this to anyone else in government? Yes, sir. So you're saying that nobody has responded at all? That's what I'm saying. Can you say what departments you've submitted that to? I would be happy to. I am not certain that that would be in the best interest of the government to do that in open session. Okay. Well, all right. Thank you. Is there any, Mr. Stennett? Ms. Beck, I'm not sure I follow you, your last statement. Why would you bring this before us but yet we can't discuss it? I mean, I think that's a legitimate question. I mean, we'd like to know what departments. Well. I mean, otherwise, you know, we should have handled this a little bit differently in a different environment if we don't want to do it in open session. If you would like me to proceed, I can certainly tell you that I have attempted to bring this to the attention of the Commissioner of Environmental Quality. I made that invitation on two separate occasions. After the second invitation, I was referred to the Department of Law. I've had the discussion with Commissioner Askew, and that was two weeks ago. Very good. Thank you. All right. Is there being no further discussion on this matter? Do you feel it would be appropriate to have Commissioner Askew have a comment? You know, I was going to ask him. He's not here. Oh. Mr. Askew. Right. I didn't see you in the back, so ... Were you following this? Yes. Would you be willing to share with us ... Would you be able to share with us any recommendation regarding protocol at this time on this issue? I think that would be up to the Council, but I would encourage you not to get into a discussion of this in open session here today. I think it's a management issue that may get resolved. There seems to be a disagreement about what information has been provided and what information hasn't, what's been done, what hasn't been done, and that kind of thing. And I'm afraid I don't think ... As it relates to the specific issue, as it relates to perhaps a policy issue that's presented, the Council could look into ... Sure. ... as an authority, of course, to look into that. Absolutely. So we've only got two issues here. Yes. Right. He would care to do that. All right. Okay. Is there Mr. Blevins? Commissioner Cope, are you aware of the issue, the circumstances we're talking about in particular? No. Do you happen to know whether this has been referred to HR by any chance? Ms. Beck, have you referred ... Commissioner Blevins, Council Member Blevins. This appears to be an HR issue. I'm asking the Commissioner that's over at HR. Okay. Got you. Ms. Beck, have you referred this issue to HR in any way? I did not refer it to HR. I referred it to the Commissioner, who is responsible for the department, including the management. Okay. In situations in private practice where this type of thing occurs, it's my experience that most companies have what's called an open door policy or some form of escalation policy. I would suggest that we take this to HR as a arbitrator in this case, and let's let it work through that process properly. I don't think that the Council is the right place for a management type of thing to occur, unless it becomes a policy type issue. For a specific instance, I think it needs to work through the process until it's either gone to its complete conclusion or reached impasse. Then we might get involved. If you're saying we're at the point of impasse, fine. I'm glad to handle it, but I don't think we are, because HR, that's the role they play. So let's let HR take this and see what happens. That's my recommendation. Is there any ... All right. Hearing no further discussion, no indication of further interest in this, we can move on then. I'm showing the next Council report as Council Member Lane. Thank you, Vice Mayor. I'd like to make a motion to place on the docket for the first reading at the Tuesday, June 24, 2008 Council meeting, item number B, an ordinance amending Sections 13-5 and 13-9 of the Code of Ordinances to establish an annual minimum license fee of $100 for each business activity. So moved. Second. There's a motion and a second. Is there discussion? Council Member Crosby. No. No discussion? Yeah, I have a question, actually, I do. Okay. Council Member Crosby. How much does the state charge for new business licensing fees? Anybody? I don't believe the state requires you to have a business license. You don't believe? Well, I'm a small business, so we don't pay a lot. I think there are some, I think for, like, LL, I think for, like. You have to be registered to do business in the state. You have a license, not a license, but a corporate document you have to amend every year. Can somebody please check? Well, I don't know that we're going to be able to get that answer right now, are we? So, but we can refer that. Okay. Is there any other discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, please say aye. Aye. All opposed, no. Motion carried. Oh, okay. So, let's vote electronically. Motion does carry. Okay. Are you finished, Council Member Lane? All right. Council Member James. Thank you, Vice Mayor. First of all, with regard to the, do I have to bring a motion, make a motion to bring off the table item O of new business? Okay. I make a motion to bring off the table item O of new business, which was tabled earlier this meeting. Second. Thank you. Motion and a second to restore item O. Is there any discussion? All in favor, please say aye. Aye. All opposed, no. Motion carries. Thank you, Council Member James. Okay. So, with regard to item O, I've received some new information, which some clarification from our law department that has resolved my confusion. If you all would like me to elaborate, I will. Okay. The question had to do with, my question had to do with charitable gaming license and what that allowed. But for this particular purpose, Commissioner Askew has contacted the state. And for this particular license, it will say for raffle only. This gaming license would normally allow for bingo, raffle, and other types of fundraising. And that was some of my, some of the clarification that I needed. But for this particular purpose, within the contract, it will say for, or within the licensing from the state, it will say for raffle only. If you need clarification, Commissioner would be happy to answer questions. Let me also add that the PSC, the PSA amendment is going to say raffle. And we pulled the file and the application of the state says raffle. And we have confirmed with the state that that, because that's what's on the application if approved, that's what the license would allow would be a raffle, not any other kind of charitable gaming. Council Member Myers. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Commissioner, is there a sunset on that? Let me back up one question first. Do you know, and I'm not sure if you would know this answer, but is this intended to be one raffle for one entity and then move on? Or are they intending to have numerous raffles and ongoing raffles from as long as the license is in effect? What we have is some information from Renee Jackson at the Downtown Lexington Corporation. And she indicates that this is a fundraiser. As I look through here, I didn't see where it said it was a one-time only. But I think the idea is they were hoping to raise, I think it's $2,500 or $3,500. There will be some local merchants that will donate some goods. They did say something about sometime down the road trying to have another raffle with maybe a bigger prize. But I don't know that it's that specific. I was telling Council Member James the purchase of service agreement would permit the raffle. And typically we renew these on an annual basis. So, you know, we would have some control that way. And we could always go in and change the agreement if we chose to do so. If we felt like they were doing more than the Council was comfortable with. Could you, or would the administration consider putting some stipulations in the purchase of service agreement that would limit the number that they could have in a year? And if they wanted to do more, they could come back and talk to us about that? Absolutely. We were just, they made this request. What happened to Council Member Myers is they made a request directly to the state. And they were told that since they didn't own the building, they had to show the assent of the property owner. And so that's why it came back to us at all. So we can certainly do that. Whatever you would like to say. If you want to say one a year, one raffle a year, something like that. We could certainly put that language in. Whatever you want to do. I would make that motion. If you want to make it two. Because they already said they might come back and do another one. I would make the motion that we would add language to that PSA that would allow for two raffles in a year. Second. So moved. There's a motion and a second. Discussion? Any discussion? When will we see that PSA come through Council? Well, it was on to be docketed for next week. So if we can have the amendment ready to go and have it back for work session next week if you'd like to take another look at it, we can modify it. Okay. Thank you. Any further discussion on the motion? Hearing none, all in favor please say aye. Aye. All opposed, no. The motion carries. Vice Mayor. Yes, sir. Give me one second. Did you say two in a one year period? Council Member James. So I need to make a motion. Can I approve the new business item O at this point? Do I need to do that at this point? We restored it. Do we still need a motion? Okay. I make a motion to accept new business item O. Second. There's a motion and a second. Is there any discussion? As amended. All in favor please say aye. Aye. I have two other announcements as part of my council report. This Saturday is June the 21st. All over America usually on June the 19th Emancipation Day, Freedom Day or Juneteenth is celebrated in at least 26 states I believe and it's actually an actual holiday in several states 12 to 14 states where they actually get the day off work to celebrate Juneteenth which blacks see as Freedom Day or Emancipation Day in response to the Emancipation Proclamation. Well here in Lexington it will be celebrated on June the 21st and this is an event for everyone not just blacks but anybody that cares about freedom. On Saturday, June the 21st there will be a Juneteenth celebration. There will be a breakfast which will be held at the Phyllis Wheatley Center also known as Brenda Cowan Center on Chestnut Street. Breakfast is at 8 a.m. Following breakfast there will be a processional to the African American Cemetery number 2 where we'll have a program with some really exciting things going on at the cemetery and a walk around the cemetery and a historical site there and you'll see some headstones from so many years ago and some really cool kind of quirky things they're doing some youth activities surrounding around the arts so they're implementing a lot of exciting things and events for all on June the 21st beginning at the Phyllis Wheatley and ending up at the African American Cemetery number 2 so please come join all of us celebrating freedom on that day. I wanted to remind council members that on June the 26th I will host a tree workshop where we can talk with our urban foresters and our tree board related to our street trees and other things these are our green citations which some of you may remember I believe one council member has already dropped a few in their district but you need to come out and attend and learn about how these citations work talk with our urban foresters and one of the things that you will hear from our urban forestry department is our division is what is it that we need to do to support our urban forestry program as we talk about street trees when we heard the streetscape presentation earlier today but we need to learn how we can support our urban forestry and how we support our trees in the city to help us all and that's all that I have thank you vice mayor thank you council member james council member blues and council member henson thank you vice mayor I have three meeting announcements on Thursday June 19 7pm Spiegel Heights neighborhood association will meet at Antioch church on Ferguson street and that's in the basement meeting room there will be some important issues discussed including the relocation of the new playground so I hope the neighborhood comes out and engages in that discussion again that's 7pm Thursday June 19 Antioch church next Monday two neighborhood association meetings both of those at 7pm Oakwood neighborhood association will meet in the community center in Oakwood park and Radcliffe Marlboro neighborhood association will meet in their community center in Marlboro park just off Benton road thank you vice mayor council member Henson thank you vice mayor I just wanted to thank the division of streets roads and forestry for the work they've done along Mason Healy road clearing a lot of trees and shrubs and bushes you can now see the golf course as you drive by and there's a nice fence there that kind of gives it a farm appearance I would like the fence is not in really good shape so I want to work on that but I just thought that was a wonderful sight to drive down through there and be able to see the golf course I like to see the green and I wouldn't ask commissioner Cole to come down but I will get with you later to find out maybe get some details on the fence and what might be done with that but thank you thank you my council report basically just as I'd like to comment ending up duties as committee of the whole chairman of the budget I'd like to acknowledge all the work of all the council members going back to the links and the chairs and the effort that was put into it when you've got a tight budget and often contentious issues it really challenges us often challenges our patience and our irritation levels but somehow we managed to get through it so far and that's a credit to the entire council and the administration as well and the work that everyone has put into an effort like this the mayor's report there is no mayor's report so we can move on then to public comment and yes sir did I miss somebody oh ok council member Crosby excuse me that's ok I just wanted to comment just going back to the fee list I was able to find to get it off the secretary of state's website and I'll just provide council members with a copy of that in their boxes thank you thank you council member Crosby ok those who have signed up for the public comment section I'm with Mr. Glisson did I pronounce that correct Mr. Glisson thank you sir Mr. Glisson is here representing Independence Place Mr. Glisson while you're preparing thank you for joining us and our procedure is ask you if you'd please give us your full name and your address and then our protocol is that those offering public comment have three minutes for the public comment and I have the unwelcome duty of being timekeeper but we thank you for being here thank you sir John Glisson my address is 3390 Malavista Road Lexington, Kentucky will you help people with severe disabilities maximize our strengths and productivity I'm the Newsline and Peer Services consultant to Independence Place which is a Kentucky resource center for independent living a center that's been here since 1995 and approximately 3 million dollars to your community Pamela Roark Glisson, current director has applied three times for assistance to no avail I am privileged and I thank you for the opportunity to stand before you Vice Mayor and esteemed council members I'm reminded of a biblical account of a man who played lame and crippled for 38 years beside the pool of Bethesda I had the waters stirred as the angels could create healing the man could not get in there and no one would help him Jesus healed him yet I often still wonder why others wouldn't help him I've spent 37 years as a totally blinded veteran and in my recruiting people to help others with severe disabilities in our scenario the mad rush seems to go to those able bodies the people are quick to help with funding however Independence Place is unique in leadership and services we are people with severe disabilities serving individuals with severe disabilities in your communities we have conducted up to 3,000 services per year in the last 5 years I'm from Western Kentucky originally and have freely given my Masters in Education and Human Services and Counseling to people in Lexington and surrounding counties I encourage you to join in that effort no one of you that I know of has investigated Independence Place and what we are and what we do in an article in the Herald-Leader in April 25, Mayor Newberry was quoting and saying that he was prepared to be judged by the way that he treats the least of his citizens and you guys have denied services to Independence Place for 3 years that I know about and I can attest for the most part for the entire 13 years of inception here in Lexington please join Mayor Newberry and stand with us as we provide Independent Living Services which was also mentioned by Commissioner Helm in the article as being new as something that Independence Place has been doing and the neighborhood place was also mentioned as something being new and of course it is very new excuse me sir but your time has expired if you're nearing the completion thank you sir I say go ahead and finish okay thank you sir thanks very much did you have something yes I did my name is Theresa Bates I work for Independence Place I live at 373 Glen Arvin Avenue I am an Independent Living Coordinator at Independence Place I started there 3 years ago I was a cook for 25 years and I became disabled and unable to work I went through vocational rehab they sent me through the SEEK program the SEEK program sent me to the Independence Place and the Independence Place took time to train me to work computers and do the things that I needed to do to help other citizens and now my job now is the Independent Living Coordinator to help people with disabilities to get housing food, funding, furniture education work incentive programs and a lot of different things that I don't I can't think right off the top of my head but I also with the couple of minutes that I got left I'd like to pass out our proposal and other letters from other citizens who wrote in to the councilman and that's about it okay thank you yes sir Mr. Blevins while they're handing out the information I'd like to request Mr. Glisson or this young lady could you all hang out for a second let me get you some information we'd like to Councilmember James and I were having a sidebar we'd like to invite you to the Commission for Citizens with Disabilities to describe the program in a little more detail to them so if you will hang on for one second I'll give you some contact information we'll arrange that Councilmember Blevins you mean right now? okay great I didn't know what you meant after the council meeting or not okay it's my understanding I've been told by Mr. Green that Debbie you'll speak on behalf of several is that correct? I'm going to speak on my own and then I'm going to give the rest of my time to Rochelle if it's possible okay my name is Debbie Taster and I just wanted to Debbie there you go I just wanted to thank the council for all the hard work they did in the Committee of the Whole I know it was a really hard job and you all put a lot of long hours in some employees will not be happy with what raise they get but hopefully they will understand that a larger raise might get people laid off and I'd rather have a smaller raise myself and let people have their jobs also this tight budget is going to push the non-collective bargaining employees to become equal to the collective bargaining probably hopefully within this year thank you very much thank you Ms. Taster Ms. Clay everyone else I believe that signed up after me is yielding their time to me I'm sorry Rochelle could you say that again I believe that everyone else that signed up after me is yielding their time to me and I will not use the whole half an hour that I think we have did you all understand that I think what Rochelle is saying is that others on the agenda on the sign in sheet have yielded their time to Rochelle but she says she doesn't expect to use that much time yes as you all know I'm Rochelle Clay and I'm here on behalf of myself as a citizen and employee and the CSEA president and behalf of several urban county government employees I am today the mouthpiece of the majority I will say personally I have witnessed and been involved in several council work sessions and meetings recently I attended budgetary meetings and witnessed the passion of the LFUCG council the council members were adamant about providing the employees with compensation while trying to balance an unsteady budget persistence was shown by voting to forego the council's pay increases and while the employees appreciate the sympathetic gesture it is understood by some that many of the council members hold employment in other outside organizations questions concerns facts and statistics were deliberated on for hours and days many of our council members were unaware of the fact that the pay rate in section 2129D changed in 2007 to word notwithstanding anything to the contrary in this section all employees except seasonal employees in payroll account 332 who receive a satisfactory score on their performance evaluation shall receive a 3.9% increase in pay not to exceed the maximum amount funds to provide this increase excuse me all employees shall receive an increase equal to the structure percentage change in the world at work index provided however that if sufficient funds are not available for this increase the urban county council shall by ordinance establish a substitute percentage increase it is the intent of this section that employee salaries shall have first priority in the budget process except for any debt obligations all LFUCG workers in the past marched on main together to request better benefits, increases, working conditions etc. former mayors, council members, and administrators were faced with disgruntled employees yearly frustrated fire and police personnel received recognition in frankfurt and are now able to negotiate pay, benefits, etc. community corrections officers soon followed suit however this year the sworn personnel armed with collective bargaining agreements are untrusted even with an evergreen clause that promises raises increased benefit pool monies tuition reimbursements, etc. year after year this non-collective bargaining excuse me the non-collective bargaining employees are continuously disheartened having marched, timelessly spoken and labored with endless anguish the collective bargaining employees will receive sizable increases in comparison to the 2.3% structure move and raise approved by council for non-collective bargaining employees while the proposed increase effective at the beginning of the fiscal year is better than the 2% increase effective in January proposed by the mayor, it pales in comparison to our collective bargaining co-workers while past council members were attempting to relieve the strain the current council is enduring in this year's budget by including section 2129D it was established to ensure the non-collective bargaining employees receive yearly compensation without a collective bargaining agreement if followed accordingly once the debts were paid, the employees' compensation was next and funding would be available unfortunately, the unawareness of the existence of 2129D of the ordinance and unwillingness to revisit previously allocated funds has once again placed the employees at the end of the budget this alone violates the ordinance which clearly states it is the intent of this section that employees' salaries have first priority in the budget process except for any debt obligations LFUCG raises have not been this low since FY2004 when we collectively received 1% we received 3.7 in FY05 5% in FY06 3.8 in FY07 and 3.9 in FY08 the structure move has not been this low since the collective FY04 1% once again council has provided funds to various outside organizations which will use those funds to provide increases for their employees in contrast, LFUCG has informed several employees in certain positions have not been funded in the FY09 budget career employees are potentially faced with the loss of their livelihood ironically, social services has been supplied funds for the day treatment center and PDR has received additional funds and each department has civil service employees whose jobs are not being funded. Also, administration announced a hiring freeze and yet weekly more positions are being advertised. 10 jobs were posted via email yesterday an additional source of funding for increased raises might have been found if looked in given, I'm sorry, if another look is given to the management partners recommendations to combine the divisions of building maintenance and construction with fleet services this merger will create another level of management and an additional annual cost of $467,000 many of the recommendations such as moving like positions from fire and parks to building maintenance and fleet services could and should be accomplished without adding nearly half a million dollars to a budget already bursting at its seams LFUCG employees recognize the council's charge and responsibility of ensuring the needs of the community are served by an efficient and physically responsible government. Many of us are also citizens and have a vested interest in the growth of our city we attend neighborhood meetings, chair committees, organized events, attend PTAs and volunteer in various projects and events. We are proud employees who execute the government's charge on a daily basis we do not take it lightly that the council and citizens of Lexington depend on us. We are Lexington's backbone and ensure the city's 911 calls are answered, trash is collected sewer streets, traffic lights revenues and parks are maintained phones are answered around the clock, services are provided citywide and we all do it with a sense of pride and accomplishment. However the many changes and proposals the employees have endured in the last 18 months have seemingly laid a pattern of rule. Unfortunately this pattern has woven a string of discontent throughout the city and the morale of the employees is unstably low. Continued underappreciation and discontent is the overall blanket feeling. If you don't wear a gun or swing a hose then please don't impose. This is what's thrown over the non-collective bargaining employees daily. The non-collective bargaining employees are not beneath our collective bargaining personnel. Collective bargaining employees function because the non-collective bargaining employees have answered the phones, routed the calls, paved the streets, collected the trash, ensured the traffic lights are functioning, completed the paperwork upon a return from a call, completed the payroll process, etc. Collective bargaining and non-collective bargaining were one unit in the past and must again become one unit. Appreciation for all is again requested. Cordial requests should not become unpleasant demands. Disputes and heated negotiations are not necessary. Harmony must be accomplished. It is the responsibility of the LFUCG Council to ensure the city of Lexington is functioning properly. However, the broken backbone of any entity will tear it down if it does not do it properly. The non-collective bargaining employees are now fractures and herniated discs. It is the responsibility of the Council to mend the backbone. It is the functioning of the backbone to ensure the city runs smoothly. We ask that you please mend the backbone. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Next on the signing sheet is Mr. Cobb. I think that's all that we have tonight, right? No. Okay. There is one more. Louis Cobb, VIP Shoe Shine, 321 Ross, number 4. Good afternoon. Peace and love. Last time I spoke, I spoke about urgency, and some people came up to me and told me to be more clear in what I mean. Because it's amazing how two people can see the same thing and come out with different perspectives. Urgency in Lexington is a prevalent example. The mayor was running for the seat that he presently holds. I shined his shoes at will. Took his sticker, put it on my bed, walked around the city. Several of my girlfriends campaigned for me. One of the things I remember him saying, friends, it's time for a change. Okay, now that he's in office, ain't nothing changed. Walks right by me. My girlfriend that campaigned for him, he don't even recognize her. It is time for a new change. Met Vice Mayor Gray at LaDeville, one of the most arrogant places in the city. I was shining shoes with dignity. I seen him out there doing his thing, looking for another man. He looked in my eyes and he had to stop, because when I'm on duty, I'm on duty. I came up to him. He came up to me, asked me, do you think I should go to the public about my sexuality? I said, be a man. Tell them the truth. I ain't got nothing to hide. I gave you a cross. You start crying. Then you're going to try to give me some money. I said, man, I accept you for who you are. I don't want your money. I accepted you as who you are. I didn't care what your sexuality was. I like women. Lo and behold, I approached Mike Scanlon. He said, sure, come in your building. In my building, shine shoes. You might want to go across the street and ask them, because I see the good job you do. Never have your lover let me come in your building and shine shoes, but you won't give me money. I don't want your money. I don't want nothing from you. Urgency in Lexington. Things are going to change around here quickly. We've got to love everybody in wheelchairs, whether they're blind. I'm going to volunteer for the organization that the dude up here was talking about. It's a new day in Lexington. People are dying. All this homosexuality all on the street. God's going to take care of that. It's got to change. Thank you, Mr. Cobb. My name's Eric. If you'll just name and address. Eric Patrick Marr. I spoke a couple weeks ago, and I'm back to say hi to my council members. I just want to talk. If I notice a trend today, and I just wanted to maybe a little bit off the cuff, a little bit unconventional, but just again reiterate the point that I talk to people about around town. Lexington's vibe, Lexington's economy, the feel, the whole entire aspect of togetherness, the connection that I deal with. I had an interesting conversation with Holly Weideman today, president of AU Associates, one of probably the most intelligent person I've ever heard speak actually. I was astounded by her intelligence. I listen to her. I listen to people here today. I listen to people all over town. I even talked today to Marcus McClinton, the defensive star for the University of Kentucky football team, and he told me some of the same things going on inside UK football. Just this. I'm not talking about government. I totally think you guys are really great people. I'm just going to talk about society and the economy in general. If we create more of this, togetherness, at the UK football they taught me last week, a lady in there spoke to me, that connection breeds innovation. If we can have more of this in Lexington, just more of a oneness, a family atmosphere that Jim Collins talked about, a team versus a bunch of individuals, if we can have a lady who has flooding in her house or her backyard, if she can have a team to rely upon, then things can be a lot more efficient and a lot more profitable for us as a city, even down to the financial dollars and cents. I want to make the connection between our inability to connect as a city. You guys are great people. It's not about you people. It's just something. There's some elephant somewhere. We don't have this. And it's so expensive for so many people on so many different levels, whether it's stormwater or whether it's jobs or whether it's handicapped people having their issues. It's so expensive for so many people not to have this, not to have the pulse, the vibe of energy flowing throughout all the different parts of our collective city, our body. I don't know what we can do. I don't know how to answer. I don't even know who to talk to. But everybody says the same thing. You talk to people, they go to other cities, they talk about how things get done quick and things get done as a team and as a unit and there are no big heads. Everybody is working together. Lexington doesn't have that. If somebody somewhere, somewhere, I don't know who to talk to, can fix that. If we can do it as a people, then I would love to know the answers. If the council can talk to somebody or do something somewhere, that would be great too. I appreciate your time so much. Thank you. David Sams. David Sams. My name is David Sams. I live at 2853 Winter Garden. David, you know I know you are aware of our three-minute rule. Thank you, sir. I am glad to see that we are getting a portion of the raise. I hope that you look at the charter. You have to understand how important this charter is in its bounds. Debts and services come first. People who give services to your citizens, that is a debt. Consider to look at the charter before you make any decisions or make any new ordinances. Always refer to I would like to refer to a constitution. It is a local constitution. It gives it more teeth, more bite, and more understanding also to our citizens. The charter is very important that we always continue to look back at it, even back in the past, because people that have held these offices have often tried to change it, and they always changed it in the wrong manner, unlawful. You know, look at your charter as it was developed, not as it is right now. Have we made changes that have violated the citizens' law? And, as I read it, we have. I'm not a lawyer, but if I can see it with a 10th grade education, it would be a whole lot I would say the citizens would look upon this council in a different light if they would also take the time to look at this document, because it is our local constitution. It is our law. It's what puts us in charge. We set guidelines for y'all to run our business, and that's why y'all are here. Most of you have done, you know, a great job. In the past, some have not. I'm not here pointing fingers, calling names. It's a time for a change, and I think it's time for a change that we look at our constitution and actually implement it as it was intended. The intent of the charter has never been followed as I read it. Maybe a legal opinion on the outside of the government gets you a legal opinion of it, not the administration's, because y'all are two different entities. One is administration, and the other one sets policies, and when you ask for legal opinions, you get administration's opinions. It might even be time to hire your own legal staff, or at least one, you know, for your own legal opinions, and please pay attention to our charter. Thanks, Mr. Sams. Okay, before we adjourn, I just want to mention that we do the fifth floor is where the Economic Development Task Force will convene, and Dr. Karpf is there, and I think our other guests will be there tonight. So, is there anything else that needs to come before the council? Motion to adjourn. All in favor, please say aye. Opposed, no. We are adjourned. Thank you.