First thing they're going to do is check door handles. If the car is locked, the second thing they're going to do is look in the car. If there's nothing visible in the car, many times they're not going to take a chance on getting caught when they don't know what they may get. So whether it's a laptop, a purse, sunglasses, or even change in the console, we want to make sure that we don't leave anything visible in the cars. Those are some really good tips. So next I'd like to focus on your Neighborhood Watch program. Can you tell our viewers how Neighborhood Watch programs work and maybe what some of the benefits or misconceptions might be? Okay, yeah Neighborhood Watch is really about, I always say it's about two things. Number one is looking out for your neighbors, looking out for people on your street in your neighborhood, and number two is communication because a lot of times we either don't have good communication or we don't have good communication. So we try to come in and develop an email tree, a phone tree, a communication system. A lot of neighborhoods may already have that in place, but we help you form that communication tree where we can talk about what's going on. We can disseminate information, whether it's car break-ins, whether it's burglaries, things that are going on in your specific neighborhood. We also talk about what to look for. We try to tell the residents what they need to be looking for and how to report. Reporting is a big problem that we have. There's so many times that people will ask me at neighborhood meetings, we had two cars broken into, do you know anything about it? And when we ask them if they called the police, they say no. So knowing how to report and what to report is really important. And then we go steps beyond that in the fact that we talk about how to safeguard your home, how to make it less likely to be victimized by a burglary, whether it's landscaping, whether it's lighting. I mentioned earlier about garage doors. This time of year, there are people driving around neighborhoods every night looking for open garage doors. And it's an easy way for them to run in, grab a power tool, grab golf clubs, something along that line, run out. And many times you don't even know somebody's been in there. So a big part of the program also is tips. But we believe in those relationships. and by us coming in and helping create that neighborhood watch, it's a way the police department and the citizens can work together to try to prevent crime. And I know in the past that we've talked about some misconceptions that residents have about a neighborhood watch program. What are some of the main questions that you get asked as far as responsibilities that go into a neighborhood watch program? You know, a lot of people think that it involves patrols. and years ago we did have programs like that, but that's not the world we live in anymore. So we do not want you to be anything other than eyes and ears and report that information. So I think that's probably the main area of concern people have is that they're going to be expected to do something that we really don't want them to do. So really, again, it goes back to just being about communication. And it's not time intense. It's whether you have the block captains are going to be disseminating some of that information. It's not time intense at all. But it does truly make a difference in keeping your neighborhood safe. Yeah, I'm sure. So you spoke a little bit about safeguards that residents can take to prevent their homes from being burglarized. But if you are the unfortunate victim of a home burglary, is it important to maintain some type of inventory of your belongings around the house? You know, for years I have talked at neighborhood meetings about the importance of that. And whether it's videoing the inside of your house, which obviously would be beneficial in the event of a fire, not only a burglary if you had that. But many times people don't have identifiers for property. So whether it's a serial number on a television or whether it's a good description of that antique jewelry or something around your house, that's very important. So we can provide, and we do provide for the Neighborhood Watch Program, property identification sheets where people can go through and write those identifiers down. And many times we can solve a burglary off locating that serial number where otherwise somebody might not have had it. And it becomes an insurance document as a police report as opposed to an investigative tool. That's great information. Thank you. So the Lexington Police Department also offers a free Citizens Police Academy, correct? That is correct. Can you tell us a little bit more about that academy? The Citizens Police Academy, one of the absolute best Citizens Police Academies in the United States. It's a 10-week program where people can come in, they can join. It's one night a week. And they truly get to see the inside of the police department. And they get to see things otherwise they wouldn't have, which involves an understanding of policing. and the way we do things here in Lexington as well. Every area of the police department they're going to be exposed to, whether it's our traffic unit, our patrol unit, they'll actually get to do ride-alongs, various specialized units, investigative units. They get to see the inside and understand also how we train our officers too here in Lexington. That's great. I'm actually going to be joining the academy in the spring, so I'm really excited about that opportunity. And it is a great opportunity for our residents to learn more about the important work that our police do. And speaking of important work, we're always looking to encourage people that want to join the police department. So for someone who may have an interest in joining the police department but might not be old enough to apply at this time, could you please tell me a little bit about the Police Explorer Post program? Absolutely. The Police Explorer Program was founded in 1999, and it's open to young people ages 14 to 21, both boys and girls, that have an interest in law enforcement. It doesn't necessarily mean they have to go in law enforcement, but it's very similar to the academy. It's ongoing, so theoretically they could join at 14 and stay until they're 21. But they go through the same curriculum that our recruits go through in safe environments, obviously. They wear uniforms and it's a disciplined, structured setting for those young people. And it's a great opportunity to see the inside of law enforcement because unfortunately it's a career that. Yeah, because what I do with that business, what I started in after corporate, I have corporate experience with Steelcase, Hila Packard, Owens Corner and Fiberglass and did all the corporate stuff. As an artist, it was the best background because I had to have goals. I had to have timelines, everything else. There was no excuses like, oh, I just can't quite get to it today as an artist. Well, it sounds like it's in the blood. And obviously your past experience has really turned this place into a showcase. This is tell me this. So what can a child because it is for children? What can a child do when they visit lollipops and unicorns, unicorns and lollipops? I reversed. I guess I like the lollipops a little bit. OK, well, you saw the lollipops. I did. I did. So what kind of destination, what can somebody expect out here? I want to make sure that the city of Lexington has a magical place for all. Thank you. I do would like to introduce our new member, Mr. Robin Mischler. Everyone, we want to welcome Robin. He's new, he's got big shoes to fill from Ms. Plumlee. So I'm just gonna go ahead and let him know. We're definitely looking forward to having you here and ask as many questions as you can. But if you want to open the floor up if you want to make a statement. Thank you for the welcome and I look forward to participating and also learning a lot here on how things work. So I'm sure I'll have questions as we go. Good. And if you're in the market for some flowers, please give Robin a call. All right, our able leader or general, really, Robin, Frank Penn doesn't appear to be on today, but you'll enjoy getting to know him as well. He's somebody we all count on very much for all of his years of knowledge on this in this on on this commission. So we look forward to that. Thank you. Okay. We'll go down to the number two of the agenda item, approval of minutes. These are the minutes from the June 24, 2021 date. And the floor is open for a motion for the approval of those minutes. Yes, Jan? I'll make a motion to approve the June 24, 2021 minutes. Okay. We have a motion. Do we have a second to that motion? Second. Seconded by Mr. Pohl. Any further discussion? All in favor, please raise your hand. Motion passes unanimously. Robin, do you abstain from that one since she wasn't in the meeting? Okay. Thank you. Item three on the agenda, postponements and or withdrawal. Yes. Okay. Yes. We'll promote Mr. Carter now. Mr. Carter, you've been promoted to a panelist. Okay. Can you hear me now? Yes. All right. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, members of the commission, my name is Matt Carter. I'm with Vision Engineering. We have a zone change that was to be heard today and we wish to postpone it for 30 days to your August 26th Planning Commission. The zone change can be found on pages 2 and 3 of your agenda under PLNMAR 18-23, Lot.LC. And then the development plan associated with it is on page three. That's PLNMJDP 18-88, Brian Property Lot 2. We wish to postpone, just we need more time. We have an attorney involved in this now. and he's asked for more time. So we ask for an additional 30 days before it's heard. Okay. Thank you. Do we have any commission members who would like to have a further discussion about the request for postponement? Not seeing any. The floor is open for a motion for the one-month postponement. Mr. Pohl? I move to postpone for one month the Lada LLC zoning map amendment and development plan at PLNMAR 1823. That's for the August 22nd meeting. 26, excuse me. August 26. Okay. We have a motion for the one month to August 26th. Seconded by Mr. Bell. Any further discussion? All in favor, please raise your hand. Okay. Motion passes. And then we have an item on page for the agenda for ZODA 21-5, an amendment to Article 6 and Article 7 regarding notification for public hearing. That's an item that went to the zoning committee earlier this month, and the zoning committee requested that the staff take a bit more time to evaluate some concerns that were expressed during the meeting, and so the staff would request a one-month postponement of that item. Okay. The floor is open for a motion for a one-month postponement for PLN Zota 21-5. Yes, Mr. Moverley. Yeah, I'll move for a one-month postponement of PLN ZODA 21-5. Thank you. Motion. Second. Second by Mr. Cole. All in favor, please raise your hand. Motion passes unanimously. Thank you. Thank you. Do you have any other postponements or withdrawals? I'm not seeing any. So that will put us on page three of the agenda. PLN ZODA-21-4. Staff. Good afternoon. I'm Autumn Goddard. I'm a senior planner for the Board of Adjustment, and I have been the ZODA lead for the ZODA that I'm going to present to you all now. I will go ahead and share my screen, and we'll discuss this one. Alright, so this is PLN ZODA 21-4, an amendment to article 1-11 and 3-10 related to home-based businesses and home occupations. So this particular ZODA was initiated by the Comp Plan, particularly in response to Fiend C policy number six, which called for an increase in flexibility on the types of home occupations that are allowed. Currently the zoning ordinance has three tiers of home-based work in the zoning ordinances. We have home offices which are offices for record-keeping and administration of work. That's basically just someone who is working from home using their phone and their computer to do office type work. A home occupation is our next tier and this may involve producing a product like if you were to make a soap and sell it on Etsy or to take to a market or something like that, but you don't have any customers coming to your house and you're not using any sort of potentially disturbing materials. Then the final tier is a home-based business. Typically these will include customers coming to the house or they may also include the use of materials or equipment that are potentially disturbing to the surrounding properties. So this is going to be things like an individual Pilates instruction or a piano lesson, something like that where someone is coming to your house for an appointment and then leaving. So home offices and home occupations are regulated as accessory uses, accessory to the residential use of a property. Home-based businesses are regulated as conditional uses. So these are heard by the Board of Adjustment and can have conditions placed on them such as the number of clients that may come at a time or the hours of operation and things like that. In all of these instances there are no employees on the site. So the goals of this particular ZODA are to clean up the zoning ordinance with some state regulations that we have become aware of and that have come about in the past few years. We do anticipate that there will be a part two to this text amendment where we'll do a more comprehensive review of home-based businesses and home occupations. But this is part one is just sort of a cleanup. So there are sort of two categories here that we're looking at. The first is home-based businesses and home occupations that are related to firearms. So typically the way the zoning ordinance is currently written, firearms trigger a home-based business no matter whether or not there are any customers coming or any of the other standards that would normally cause a home business to be considered as a home-based business rather than a home occupation. So the Board of Adjustment has to hear those as conditional uses. We have become aware in the past couple of years that there are a couple of state regulations that prohibit local jurisdictions from regulating the sale, manufacture, purchase of firearms. So typically what we see when we see these as home-based businesses, they are gunsmiths, so folks who are working on repairing firearms. We also had an application for an individual who was appraising antique and rare firearms. So in these cases, there were not customers coming to the house for any extended period of time. Typically, there would be an exchange of the items, of course, and then they would be taken to the individual's home where they would be worked on or appraised. So this would not be something that would typically be a home-based business if they were doing it with, say, a pocket watch. So that is kind of the difference there. So these two state regulations that prohibit us locally from really being involved in the regulation of firearms are what we are trying to resolve with this text amendment. So basically, we are just eliminating our mentions of firearms so that we are not treating them any differently than any other type of item or product. The second part of this soda is related to home-based processing. Again, this was a more recent state law that was changed. So in 2003 the state created regulations for farm owners to produce value-added products on their property. That was things like jams where they were maybe growing the strawberries as part of their farm operation and then canning them into a jam and then they could sell those items. However, the zoning ordinance has historically prohibited catering and home cooking as home-based businesses for the because of the need for a commercial kitchen primarily. With these state laws that changed in 2019, these allow individuals who are not on a farm and who do not have a commercial kitchen to produce certain food items in their homes to sell. So we have found that there are a number of folks in Fayette County who have gotten the certification through the state, over 50, and they are currently prohibited to do that in their homes under our zoning ordinance based on that provision that does not allow for home cooking. So these are some of the items that are included in the home-based processing program. So these are things that are not too likely to have any sort of foodborne illness aspects and that can be produced safely in a non-commercial kitchen. Again this is just from the KRS regarding the microprocessing program. So there's home-based processing and then home-based microprocessing. The difference being that the microprocessing is more like your pickling. And there are a number of things that are prohibited. There's a pretty extensive list of the things that are allowed. So they are specific items that are allowed to be produced under this program and these are just a few examples of things that are not allowed to be produced under this program that would require a commercial kitchen. Again, there are a number of individuals operating these types of businesses in Fayette County already and we would be really happy to see these individuals come into compliance with our zoning ordinance. So here we have the proposed language. These are the changes to Article 1, removing firearms and removing home cooking and adding the commercial kitchen language here. We are including a provision that says that this that home occupation may include the pickup of pre-ordered items or drop off of items to be repaired. That does not count as someone visiting the house in order to trigger the home based business requirement because their individuals will not be spending any length of time at the house. So that basically this would be so that if I were to order my cookies from from the home based processor down the street I I could just go pick those up without requiring them to meet me somewhere else or something like that. And then again here we're looking at that firearms again that we did include a provision that firearms being modified or repaired on premises as part of a home occupation should be locked in a safe and should never be discharged on site. This is in line with the ATS regulation for federal firearms licensees. They do not require a safe typically, but they do require that folks be insured and that they always be able to account for any weapons that are in their home as part of their federal firearms license business. So this is just an added thing that is pretty much always happening anyway that we have these firearms related businesses, but we did include that one provision still related to firearms. So staff is recommending approval of the text amendment. The proposed text amendment supports and implements the 2018 comprehensive plan in the following ways. The amendment was developed in response to the implementation item calling for an increase in flexibility on home occupations allowed. The policy number six. The proposed changes will maximize context-sensitive employment opportunities within opportunity zone tracks, providing equitable community development and prioritizing local residents for advancement opportunities. That's theme C diversity policy number five. The amendment will encourage a diverse economic base to provide a variety of job opportunities including upward mobility for lower income residents of Fayette County, BMC policy number two. The amendment will enable existing and new neighborhoods to flourish through improved commitment to, or sorry, through improved regulation, expanded opportunities for neighborhood character preservation, and to commitment to expand options for mixed use and mixed type housing throughout Fayette County. And the amendment will strengthen efforts to develop a variety of job opportunities that lead to prosperity for all in that same seagull a1 and this amendment number two will modernize the zoning ordinance reconciling it with the state laws so that's the the primary reasons that we have written this ZODA and we're asking for your approval today and if you all have any questions I'm happy to answer them Thank You Autumn. Any Commission members have any questions for Autumn at this time? Mr. DeMolva. I got one. I might have missed it, but is there a limitation on the number of people who can work inside the home? So only individuals who reside in the home can work there. There are no employees coming in. So typically these are one individual working, but it could be, you know, it could be a husband and wife or multiple individuals that were living as a family unit in a residence. Okay. Thank you. I see any other hands. Are there any citizens that would like to speak on behalf of this text amendment, Zola 21-4? I see any. Okay. I'll bring it back to commission members for a great vote. The floor is open. Yes, Ms. Meyer. I move for approval of ZODA 21-4 amendment to Article 1-11 and 3-10 related to home-based businesses and home occupations. Thank you. We have a motion seconded by Mr. Pohl. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all in favor, please raise your hand. Motion passes unanimously. you all for your hard work hey Jim we'd like to see you in 10 minutes great mr. chair we are going to put autumn in charge of all of the staff presentations from now on if it means we all get out of here in 20 minutes. So that's great. To Mr. Robin Mickler, this is not ordinary. So this is a good inaugural meeting for you to attend, but there will be more robust meetings to come. And speaking of that, Mr. Chair, members, I want to remind you all that we will be having a fifth Thursday work session next Thursday, July 29th, and it will be our first in-person meeting. We will be meeting on the third floor of the Phoenix building, just as we did before the pandemic for all of our work sessions. So we look forward to seeing you all there. Also mindful that the situation may be fluid. So certainly if that information changes, we will let you know. But at this time, we are scheduled to meet on the third floor at 1.30 next Thursday for the July work session. Jim, a question on the subdivision committee meetings and things like that that are, you know, in August, are they going to be virtual or are they going to be in person? Mr. Bell, we are hoping to keep the committee meetings, which is the first Thursday of every month, by Zoom for as long as we can. And if for some reason we find that there's a legal hurdle to that, then we'll have to recalibrate. But at this time, that meeting, and we hope all future committee meetings are scheduled by Zoom, so you will not need to come into that meeting. But the next commission member will be in person after that, the week after that? Yes, the first planning commission meeting you all have is August the 12th. That will be the subdivision meeting, and that will be, that at this time, is scheduled to be in person in the council chambers. And just for your planning purposes, it's an all or nothing, so there's not really an option for you all to participate by video teleconference once we go back to in-person some meetings. So you'll either need to be in the council chambers or, or just you won't be able to participate if you're not. So that that's, that's where we stand now. And again, the, with mind, mindful that things could change, but at this time, that's, that's the way we have things planned. Well, it'd be wonderful from my standpoint, I guess others as well to travel, you know, it'd be great because I'll be traveling then. And I'd love to attend, you know, whenever I travel, whenever I can. So that precludes that under the circumstances. But it was great to be able to travel and participate in the past. I agree, Mr. Bell. That was a huge benefit. We saw great participation that way. Unfortunately, the statute does not allow us to do that. You got it. I just want to put in my two cents in favor in the event that. Thank you very much. Ms. Meyer? Jim, what about the work sessions? I'm particularly interested in the one in August. Is that going to be in person or could it be a hybrid of Zoom and in person? Yes, ma'am. We're going to schedule those for in person if we're able to. And those will be in the Phoenix building and they will not be televised. I guess there could be a question whether that could be a hybrid meeting since you all are not actually making decisions. So we will get an answer on that to see whether it's possible for you all to participate offsite when we have our in-person work session meetings. But I can tell you unequivocally for the subdivision meeting and for the zoning hearing, you must be present to participate. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Davis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Duncan, good to see you. You may have mentioned this earlier at a previous meeting and I missed it. But with us going back into chambers, what progress has the staff been able to make about public comment via telephone or Zoom? Mr. Davis, we will be back to pre-pandemic participation options. There is not another option for someone to participate live through video teleconference during the public hearing. They can certainly submit comments in advance, and you all can review those at the meeting. but they if they want to speak on the record then they will need to show up at the meeting to do so which disproportionately puts a large segment of our population at a tremendous disadvantage i have a hard i have an extremely hard time accepting that answer mr velka because when i was confirmed the council and the administration was adamant that every citizen who wants to make a comment be able to make a comment. And by having meetings on Thursday afternoons at 1.30 and telling our citizens, you just have to be here or you can write a letter, I can't accept that. I think I'm going to continue to push for some sort of alternative for people to call in or to Zoom in. Clearly, we've been doing it for a year. I just don't understand why we cannot seem to wrap our heads around a phone call a phone line, something. And again, this isn't just me. This is the peppering that I got last year during my confirmation hearing had a lot to do with accessibility. Our citizens meeting in the council chambers on Thursdays at 1 30, it's not accessible. Mr. Davis, this is not my decision. I'm passing the information to you. state statute does not give us that provision at this time. And certainly changes could be made to allow for that. In addition, our technology does not allow us to do that. It would have to be updates to technology. And of course, it's up to the planning commission if you want to change the time of your meeting and hold that at a different time. And we can work with the schedule to do that. But it is not the planning staff's decision to make this. This is a decision of the government, and we are not able to accommodate call-in participation at our public meetings at this time. So it's a state statute that prohibits that? The statute prohibits you all from participating in two different ways at one time. So the statute says you all have to all be in the room to participate. The way you've been able to participate via video teleconference for the past year is because the governor suspended that order and the legislature suspended that order. But without that emergency order, you all have to all be in the same room at the same time to participate. As far as calling in, I don't know if law has completely weighed in on whether that is acceptable under open meetings in Kentucky. But I do know that our technology does not allow us to do that at this time. to have a live meeting that is televised and stream live and then another, a separate feed that brings in public participation through video or phone line at a live meeting. We just don't have that capability. That's not to say that it couldn't be done and that if we determined that there was a legal path to do so, but there would be a budgetary implication and that would need to be something that was worked out through the department. Well, those are a lot of roadblocks, but I'm a small business owner and I handle roadblocks every day. And so if I'm alone on the commission with this thinking, I'll let it go. But I just know that it's important to me. I think it's important to people that have been able to access our meetings now in a new way. I just I can't accept that we give the public something and then we take it back. And to say that we don't have the technology or we can't do it. I just I can't accept that. And at Budgetary, I get that. If it's a violation of the state statute that we cannot have members of the public call in, okay, fine. Then, you know, I guess we need to get an attorney general opinion saying you can't do that. And I'll respect that. But it's just, I think it's too important. And I think the solutions are too easy to let that go. But again, if I'm alone, I'll drop it. I don't think you're alone, Zach. I agree as well as far as, you know, we've opened up a new chapter, you know, through this pandemic in business and in planning commission meetings. And it seems to me that to be able to bring somebody in by phone call is as simple as having a speakerphone. But, you know, I understand, you know, statutes can get in the way. However, I think, you know, we owe it to the public to try to help keep that participation going. So I agree with you, Zach. I'd like to add that I'm in agreement. And, you know, it's accessibility, it's transparency in government. And we all know we need that. And I'm wondering, has the governor rescinded the emergency order? Portions of it, as I understand, Ms. Meyer, have been rescinded. And part of it still remains in place, which has allowed us to continue to meet like this during this time. Well, I know everybody wants to get back into person, but is there any compelling reason for us to do that? If we can't have the public accessibility piece, what do we gain? we're losing something by going back to in person. We're not having the public accessibility. So I guess the question is which is more important? The public accessibility or us being in person and not having it. You wouldn't mind just putting it down and then I'm going to sign it. I think there We're going to be finishing up just in a few minutes. Okay, good. Good. Good. Hey, Jim. Yes. Jim, do you, I have Tracy Jones here with me. Yeah. Yes, Mr. Chair. I would like to address Ms. Meyer's question first. Certainly Tracy can weigh in from the legal standpoint. Ms. Meyer asked what is to be gained. And I will tell you, Ms. Meyer, I believe there are trade-offs. I certainly think for the benefit of the planning commission or the collegial activity of the planning commission it's good for you all to be in each other's presence i think it does affect the way you participate in meetings i don't mean you individually but just people when a decision-making body has to sit next to each other and they have to look at each other and they're able to be a part of that i think that heightens your your ability to participate to make decisions regarding governance of the community. And, of course, there are people who enjoy being seen in the audience by the decision makers. For good or for bad, if a group shows up wearing T-shirts and buttons, that has no impact on a video teleconference, but it has potential great impact when the meeting is in person. So I think there, and we've heard this from individual planning commission members and from other decision makers in the community, in the government, that that's one of the benefits for being back in person. Certainly, the opportunity for more people to participate or to participate remotely exists in this manner. and and I I do feel like that I'm I'm not doing a good job of communicating this because as I said I'm I'm repeating to you what the communication is to us however what you all don't know or some of you may not know is one of the implementation items out of the comprehensive plan and out of our public engagement process has been to try to do this and we've been working for two years for a a method to have audience participation outside of the chambers. And that's a separate process, and that's still ongoing with us. We haven't made much progress with that, so that's why there's not a whole lot to report. But I do think it's important that you all understand that this is not a decision being made by the staff. This is decisions that we are passing on to you all that are being made for us. Mr. Chair, if Ms. Jones has something to say, I think that might be helpful as well. No, I think you answered it clearly, Jim. I'll just be checking if you need the extra support there. So, Jim, when you say there hadn't been much progress made, is that political, basically? Or it just seems, you know, to Zach's point that, you know, while I understand that this is what's in place, it's been in place for some time. And now that we've had change, we've now been introduced to something that's very different and robust and been acceptable to a lot of people. And so now would seem to be the time to consider these different changes that we didn't even know existed prior to all this. And so I appreciate it can be, quote, swept under the rug. This is the way we used to do it. But I guess what Zach is saying, I think of the support of many people, is that we would just, on our behalf, staff, ask that y'all consider whatever it takes or inform us on what we need to do or whatever it is just to learn more about this. I think that's Zach's emphatic point. And so that's – and I support that consideration as well. but not knowing the other side of it as well because you think about the you know they're to your point and you know a lot more about it um so we just need to be better informed and it ought to be something we ought to consider and that's i think that's what zach's saying um i just want to chime in a little bit to make maybe a little more clarification to what jim is saying, this is in no way a decision that Jim and his staff have made. Obviously, when COVID went into place, initially, if you might recall, we didn't have any meetings. We shut down entirely. And there was a lot of scurrying and working with the state government and the governor's office with, you know, we don't know how long this is going to be. We don't know how long this is going to last. You know, under our current statutory authority, we can't meet. Deadlines are moving and we can't meet to accommodate those. And so the governor issued his emergency order. Senate Bill 150 got put into place. And what those things did was basically take away the application of those statutes, which required things like that, you know, everyone has to be in the same room when you have a public meeting, using the same medium for the meeting in order for a hearing to take place. The deadlines were told and suspended, which allowed us to not have those meetings for several months. And then you might recall our first couple of meetings on Zoom were somewhat lengthy because we were trying to go back and pick up things that had been basically in the works pending. Obviously, we're in a different place now. The emergency order is still in place, but parts of it are being, you know, sort of picked away a little bit, removed a little bit. As you know, some of it has been challenged in court. So far, the governor's authority to issue that order has been maintained. But in the meantime, we've been trying to operate in a position where we can get back into in-person type meetings. When you have a hearing, the state statute, both through the Open Meetings Act and through our requirements for hearings, have certain requirements that are meant to accommodate due process. And so that's why your hearing meetings are going to have to take place in person and you're going to have to have the public be in person with you at those meetings. Now, that being said, you know, to Jim's point, the planning division had approached the law department prior to COVID and we were discussing what we could do and how it might be possible to accommodate some of what you're talking about. As Jim said, by no fault of anyone's, that hasn't been moving forward very quickly because, and you know, I know COVID gets blamed for everything, but because largely all the attention was going towards an emergency situation and temporary measures for a period of time to accommodate that. So, but from the get-go, we recognize both in the Division of Planning and in the Law Department and in other parts of the government, you know, like Chris Edwards' shop, who's been so helpful at maintaining all these Zoom meetings and dealing with the technology, that there were some hurdles, some of which may be surmountable and some of which we don't know. And those things include, can we get around or get some different opinion or some change if necessary to the state statutes that require the type of meetings that we are trying to get back to differently so that we would be able to do that. Additionally, there are some significant concerns that we saw and experienced during COVID with meetings that are taking place in person and people who are just calling in and being able to control that flow of information, making sure that you're getting the information that is pertinent to the issue at hand and not just random calls that are coming in about whatever. So those things are certainly things that we didn't even know about. We're now aware of. So we're having to look at. But also, as Jim stated, there is a significant technology issue that we don't have when everybody's on Zoom. You know, when everyone and you let me promise you that you have the absolute wrong person explaining technology to you here. However, as I understand it from Mr. Edwards, who understands it way better than me, you know, when everyone's on Zoom, we're all using the same medium. And so they can feed that into our system. And this is my, you know, lawyer paraphrase of a technical issue. So take that for what it's worth. We're all feeding into the same medium. But if we have you all in person and you're in the council chambers and we're live streaming, which we do, you know, and recording it through our different systems and using our Granicus system, which counts votes and tracks the minutes for us. And then we have to bring in various different other mediums and plug them into that system to allow people to either do by phone, do by Zoom or whatever. And these are Chris's words that create somewhat of a technological nightmare for us right now. So to figure out how we could do that and what would be necessary is still in the works. And so I don't know that I would call it political in nature, but we know it's an issue that in addition to the legal side, it's a practical issue we have to address and it probably would cost money. And I don't even know if anybody knows how much. So that's kind of where we're coming from. So I understand to your point, it's really difficult to tell people. I mean, we're experiencing it. Well, we can't do it that way when we've been doing it that way because those nuances aren't clear to everyone. So we can continue to look at, and I see Chris on here as well, but, you know, we can continue to look at it, continue to explore it, both from the legal and other standpoint. But, you know, until we can get down that road a little further, we're going to have to follow this route. Thank you. Chris, do you want to make a statement, too, since you're the expert? Well, I'm just jumping in. I haven't heard anything. I just was one of my staff members to tell me you all were talking about coming back in person and the possibility of doing hybrid meetings. We welcome you to come back in person. We look forward to that, of course. But as far as doing a hybrid where some people are like in the chambers and some are remote, we've tried that. It really is not possible. We have to do one or the other. We have to either stay with Zoom or we have to go with in-person meetings. We tried it once and it's very much of a balancing act because you don't have to get too much on the technical side of it, but the audio is just circling through Zoom and through the council chambers and it creates a lot of feedback issues. And it's just not something that we're able to do. We've tried it. We've looked at it. We've studied it for months. And we're just not able to do a hybrid meeting. Okay. I thank you for your comments, Mr. Duncan and Ms. Jones and the commission members too for their concerns. That was a question that's been going around a lot. So nice to get it addressed. Mr. Davis? Yes, thank you, Mr. Duncan. Thank you, Ms. Jones, for your insight. And I guess I would at least like to leave it today if we could perhaps request an attorney general opinion about public comment. via telephone or other media source i know that if if we can call into an am radio station in the 70s surely we can call into a planning commission meeting in 2021 and do so in a way that yes sir mr edwards okay you remember when they would call into those radio stations and they'd say is your is your radio on in the background yes that's the problem okay all right so i think we're And you weren't alive in the 70s, so I don't know where that's coming from. Exactly. So I think at this point, you know, Mr. Davis, I would, you know, reach back, maybe reach back to Ms. Jones about that question. Honestly, this may not be the platform for that, but just in my opinion. So, but I think that question is definitely need to be addressed because we are working for the citizens. So I'm in agreement with you and Ms. Barstow and Mr. Bell and Ms. Myers and Mr. Polk. And Mr. Nickel. And Mr. Nickel. Everybody. Everybody. Totally. I'm on board 100%. No, it's, I mean, it's 2021, but there are things that we can and cannot do. And I understand Mr. Edwin's statement. So with that being said. I know I didn't know what the heck Zoom was prior to any of this. I don't think anybody did. So there you have it. Right. Right. So with Mr. Duncan, do you have anything else to share? Anything new? Oh, is that it? No, sir. Thank you, sir. With that being said, the meeting is adjourned. Hope everyone have a good weekend. Thank you again and look forward to seeing you next week in the work session. Thank you.