And I'll come on, Mooney Don't stop cooking as I feel alright now Hey Don't stop now Come on, Mooney Come on, yeah I'll say yeah Yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah God, you made me feel Like a boy So good Like a boy So good But I feel alright You say why? You say why? You say why? And I feel alright Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I love you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Waking, shaking, moaning, moaning Up and down, turn around, come on moaning Hey, she give me love and I feel alright now I said, don't stop now Come on, morning Come on, morning I said, yeah Yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah Yeah, cause you made me feel So good So good So good Feel alright So good So good Well, I feel alright, I said Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I wanna ride the pony, ride the pony, ride the pony Come on, come on Come on, come on, I feel alright Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah If I please make it feel Like a party, like a party, like a party Like a party, like a party Come on, like a party Yeah, alright Well, it feels so good I say yeah, yeah It's been so long Thank you. I want to say goodnight Send out my love Never leave me there Send out my love Close as never as they Send out my love Same hotel, same old room I'm on the road again She needed so much more than I could give We knew our love could not pretend Broken hearts keep on the legend there Send out my love Never be with me Send out my love Oh, the spell of me Send out my love Calling out her name, I'm dreaming It makes you love, I'm best I'm seeing It's the voice that keeps on falling Thank you. I was once out strolling one very hot summer's day When I thought I'd lay myself down to rest In a big field of tall grass I lay there in the sun and felt it caressing my face as I fell asleep and dreamed. I dreamed I was in a Hollywood movie and that I was the star of the movie. This really blew my mind The fact that me An overfed, long-haired, leaping gnome Should be the star of a Hollywood movie But there I was I was taken to a place The Hall of the Mountain King I stood high upon a mountain top Naked to the world In front of Every kind of girl There was long ones Tall ones Short ones Brown ones Black ones Round ones Big ones Crazy ones Out of the middle Came a lady She whispered in my ear Something crazy She said Do the wine and pick that girl Do the wine and pick that girl I could feel hot flames of fire roaring at my back As she disappeared But soon she returned In her hand was a bottle of wine In the other a glass She poured some of the wine from bottles to the glass And raised it to her lips And just before she drank it She said Take the wine, take that girl Take the wine, take that girl Spill the wine, take that girl Spill the wine, take that girl Take that girl, yeah It's all yours Oh, you gotta do it Spill that wine, spill that wine Let me feel Take three, two, five, yeah, yeah Oh, oh, oh Spill the wine, spill the wine, spill the wine You know what, you know what, you know what, you know what, they got one. Stay with me My love, I hope you'll always be Right here by my side If ever I'll be here Oh my love In your arms I feel so safe and so secure Every day is such a perfect day to spend Alone with you I will follow you Will you follow me? Love the days and nights that we know we'll be I will stay with you Will you stay with me? Just one single tear in each passing year With the dawn Oh, I see you so very clearly now All my fears are drifting by me so slowly now Fading away I can see Night is long But you are here Close a hand Oh, I'm better For the smile you give And while I'm here I will follow you You follow me All the days and nights That we know will be I will stay with you Will you stay with me Just one single tear In each passing year There will be I will follow you, will you follow me? No, that is nice that we know we'll be alone Stay with you, will you stay with me? Just one single tear in each blossom ear I will follow you, will you follow me All the days and nights that you know we'll be I will stay with you, will you stay with me Just one seed to reach you, awesome I will follow you, will you follow me Thank you. I'm out. Well, I'm giving up all of this time. Me and my friends, we'll do just fine. I've done everything for you. You've done nothing for me. I've done everything for you. You've done nothing for me. Yeah, someday I'd have a whole lot of money. I'd be a millionaire. But when that didn't happen overnight, I found out how much you really cared. But all you want is a whole lot of money. All the rest is just jiving, honey. I've done everything for you. You've done nothing for me. I've done everything for you. You've done nothing for me. When I first met you, you didn't know how to love a man. All those things about making love you didn't understand. But now you know about everything. I'm turning you in for memories. I've done everything for you. You've done nothing for me. I've done everything for you. You've done nothing for me. I've done everything for you You've done nothing for me I've done everything for you You've done nothing for me I'm going out on the town tonight Get as wild as I can be I'm going to find out what it's real I like to be loose, high and free I don't care what the people say I'm taking my mind, I'm changing the state I've done everything for you You've done nothing for me I've done everything for you You've got nothing for me You've got nothing for me You've got nothing You've got nothing You've got nothing for me Across the bay a lady waits to hold me tight And my boat and I are ready to set sail If the weather keeps on holding and the wind is right I'll be wrapped up in my sweet one's arms tonight And we will sail away On the wings of love into the night Cast out our fortunes on the sea Then we will go to sleep together With the rocking of the water Dream of how our life will someday be When she sailed away with me As I skip across the waves My sails are high and full My mind is on the one I wait to see And I dream about an alley Somewhere in my mind Where someday I will take her off with me And we will sail away On the wings of love into the night Cast out our fortune on the sea Then we will go to sleep together With the rocking of the water Dream of how our life will someday be When she sailed away with me I see a lady on the side But she will wait no more As I head for the shore Cause tonight I'm gonna take her for a ride And we will sail away On the wings of love into the night Cast out our fortunes on the sea Then we will go to sleep together With the rocking of the water Dream of our life will someday be When she sailed away, we'll sail away On the wings of love into the night Cast out our fortunes on the sea And then we will go to sleep together With the rocking of the water Dream of how our life will someday be When she sails away, we sail away On the wings of love and through the night The End Thank you. Thank you. I'm sorry. I would do anything for love. I'll never lie to you and that's a fact. But I'll never forget the way you feel right now. Oh no, no way. And I would do anything for love. But I won't do that. No, I won't do that. Anything for love. Oh, I would do anything for love. I would do anything for love. But I won't do that. No, I won't do that. Some days it don't come easy And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all And these are the days that never end And some nights you're breathing fire And some nights you're talking nice Some nights you're like nothing I've ever seen before Will again Maybe I'm crazy Oh, it's crazy and it's true I know you can save me No one else can save me now but you As long as the planets are turning As long as the stars are burning As long as your dreams are coming too You better believe it And I would do anything for love And I'll be there till the final act And I would do anything for love And I'll take the vow and seal a pact But I'll never forgive myself if we don't go away tonight And I would do anything for love Oh, I would do anything for love Oh, I would do anything for love But I won't do that No, I won't do that I wouldn't do anything for love Anything you've been dreaming of But I just won't do that I wouldn't do anything for love Anything you've been dreaming of But I just won't do that I wouldn't do anything for love Anything you've been dreaming of But I just want them down Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh I just pray to the god of sex and girls and rock and roll And some nights I lose the feeling And some nights I lose control Some nights I just lose it all And I'm watching the dance and the thunder rolls And maybe I'll be lonely It's all quite a bad to be There's just one and only One and only promise I can keep As long as the wheels are burning As long as the fires are burning As long as your dreams are coming true You'd better believe it Then I would do anything for love If you know it's true and that's a fact I would do anything for love It'll never mean I'm turning back But I'll never do it better than I do it with you So long, so long And I would do anything for love Oh, I would do anything for love I would do anything for love But I won't do that. No, no, no, I won't do that. I wouldn't do anything for love, anything you've been dreaming of, but I just won't do that. I wouldn't do anything for love, anything you've been dreaming of, but I just won't do that. Hi, I'm Amanda Mays Bledsoe, the council person for the 10th District, and today you'll find us out at Station 20. You know, fall is a wonderful time of the year. Kids are finally back in school. You feel some football and some fall festivals coming up. And it's one of the times we get to celebrate, really, the family and fall things. The weather is actually starting to change a little bit. You're having some outside barbecues, probably even some fire pits on the nights. I know that I certainly am. And one of the things that I love about fall is getting ready to celebrate the 150-year anniversary of the Lexington Fire Department. And today I'm joined with Chief Jason Wells. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. And we're out here at Station 20. It's one of the largest fire stations really in the city, and it's right here on Harrisburg Grove. It's pretty well known. In fact, many years ago, right after 9-11, the fire station men and women of this actual Station 20 decided to give back to the community. In fact, if you'll notice, after 9-11, many people brought treats, snacks, and gifts as thank yous, really, for what the fire department has done, certainly in New York, but certainly here as well. And the fire station said to give back. So many years ago, almost 20 now, they started putting up lights, holiday lights, as a way to give back to the community and say thank you. I know it's one of the things my kids love. I certainly, every time we drive by and see it, they come up here, they play some festival music, they get to celebrate and support the fire department, and they also bring toys and things that give back to the community. So this station is really integral, I think, to the south side and certainly to the city of Lexington. Absolutely. So, Jason, we're coming up on the 150th anniversary, And tell me just on a personal level, you're chief a little over a year and a half now. So what does it feel like and why is it important to you? Well, you know, it's such a momentous occasion for our city and our department. And to celebrate 150 years of serving this community is such a neat thing. And to think about the transition of the fire service and where we've come from. Actually, September 7th, 1871 is when the City of Lexington took the controlling interest of the fire department from the insurance companies who used to run the fire department. So for 150 years now, the City of Lexington has been served by the Lexington Fire Department. And we're excited to celebrate this great occasion, but we're also excited to kind of move forward into the future and look at that. Sure, I get it. So as we celebrate this fall, what are some things that the community can be involved in to celebrate with you? Well, we have a number of events that are going to be happening throughout the month of September. So our kind of unofficial kickoff is September 18th, we're going to be hosting our retiree dinner. And that's a way that we can get a lot of our retirees back. We give them a state of the department address. And we also have a last call to recognize the retirees who've passed away since the last event. So it's a great way to honor the folks who came before us. And then on September 19th, Sunday the 19th, we really kick off our 150th celebration. So we're going to start with what we call a muster. And a muster is a collection of vintage or antique fire apparatus. We've got apparatus coming from all across the country. And they'll be meeting at the Regal Hamburg parking lot. And we'll be having this event where they actually have little friendly competitions. And if we're lucky, we'll get to see some of those steam engines operate, which is going to be really, really cool. And then that evening at 6 p.m., we're going to have a parade through downtown Lexington, right down Main Street. So a lot of those same vintage apparatus will be in the parade. It's going to be a great, great event. We have somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 floats from various stations that celebrate our history and tradition. So that's very exciting as well. Oh, I love it. Everyone loves a good parade. I know when I was growing up, actually, we're hearing one right now. there's something special about seeing the history and how, you know, vehicles have changed, how the department has changed. And I hope you'll come down there on Sunday and just celebrate the rich history that Lexington has with that. You know, in just a few days, actually, the 9-11 stair climb is happening. And I have been fortunate enough to participate alongside a number of actually officers. And during that time, it's a really neat thing for the department to raise awareness and really to have gone or who's on or do. So will you talk a little bit about the stair climb for me? Sure. So this year is the 20th anniversary of the tragedy of September 11th. And this year, we, as previous years, will be hosting a stair climb to remember and recognize those brave firefighters that were working their way up the stairs of the Twin Towers. So the climb is the equivalent of 110 stories, which is the height of the Twin Towers. and we know 343 firefighters lost their lives that day and hundreds more since of 9-11 related illnesses. So this is a way where we can kind of come together as a community, recognize their sacrifice and also experience some of what they experienced. No kidding. One of the neatest things I thought most meaningful for me was carrying someone's name and having that name as you walked up the stairs and knowing that that individual gave their life that day and ringing the bell on their honor. Really makes it personal. It was really, it's really special. So if you can join us on that night, it's Thursday. We'll be at UK Stadium. And there's something really special, I think, really unique about watching everyone walk around that stadium in solidarity, really. And I carry a hazmat suit. I hope I'll do it again this year. It's something really special, and I hope you'll join us for that. You know, one of the things that we talk about is you're raising some awareness for the blood drive as well. So talk to me a little bit about why that's an important thing for the fire department to partner with the Kentucky Blood Center. Well, this was kind of a unique idea and it's something that we're very excited about. We, since we're celebrating our 150th anniversary, set a very lofty goal of collecting 150 pints of blood on this day. So we are partnering with the Kentucky Blood Center. We're excited that the blood is going to be staying local. So that's something that was meaningful to us and to really encourage the community come out. We're encouraging our members to come out and we really want to get to that 150 mark. And we think that'd be a great way to give back to the community. Oh, I totally agree. And as a regular blood donor, I think it's really important. So I'll be doing that today. And I just want to say if you have an opportunity to come out and support our fire department this month, please do so. The men and women of the fire department have done a phenomenal job in serving our community and do great work. Really, there's so much we could talk about. But I just want to say, come out and celebrate us. I want to thank you for being with us today. Absolutely. I hope you'll come out and support the men and women of Fire Station 20 this fall and certainly as we get ready for the holidays. We're going to go over to the Kentucky Blood Center and take a look. Welcome back to Top of the Ten. You'll find me here at the Kentucky Blood Center. And one of the things, I used to think I knew a lot about donating blood. In fact, for a number of years, I have. My father had terminal cancer. And so for a long time, he did take blood transfusions. and it felt really important to me to give back. Blood is one of the few things that we can't create anywhere else. We have to give it, and it's a life-saving gift. And then I joined the Kentucky Blood Center board a few years ago, and I realized there was a whole lot more I did not understand. So I'm so excited the Lexington Fire Department is partnering with the Kentucky Blood Center to try to get 150 gallons of blood for the use in Lexington. I'm joined here by Mandy, who's with the Kentucky Blood Center, so thanks for joining us. Thank you. Why don't you talk a little bit about what is the KBC's blood mission and kind of your reach? Yeah, so Kentucky Blood Center was started more than 50 years ago as a local organization to supply blood to the Lexington hospitals. Since that time, we've grown tremendously. We now supply blood to 70 hospitals throughout central eastern Kentucky and actually as far away as Paducah. So our reach continues to grow. We provide those blood products, and our goal really is to get local donors to give blood to local hospital patients that need it. So this might be things you think about a trauma patient. It could be a cancer patient who needs transfusions. A lot of people don't know how often cancer patients who are doing treatment need regular blood transfusions, platelet transfusions. So our goal is to help collect that blood locally, process it safely here in our state, and make sure it's available to those patients who need it. You're exactly right. And I had no idea how much it really matters to people here. You know, it's not shipped someplace else. The blood that's donated here really does stay here. Absolutely. And, you know, when you donate with us, we actually even have a cool new feature. when you donate blood and your blood, if you allow us to text you, so you have to opt into that texting feature. When your blood gets shipped to the hospital, you'll get a text message letting you know that your blood is shipped in which hospital it went to. So it really makes that local connection. When we first kind of started triggering that system, my blood went to the hospital in my hometown of Maysville, where I'm from. And I thought, man, it really could have gone to someone I know. And so you never know who that person could be that you passed in the mall or at the grocery store that needed the blood products that you gave. And so I love that feeling of knowing that I didn't just save someone. I saved someone who might be my neighbor. I think that's so fantastic. And one of the initiatives that started a little while back was trying to give one more time. And so I know that that's something that I gave regularly for the last number of years. But, you know, it's one of those things where you do, and then you think, I need to go do that. And so making that commitment to give one more time a year than you have been giving really doesn't make a big difference. Absolutely. If everybody gave one more time a year, we would have no blood shortages. And we tell people all the time, it's, you know, a lot of times you may only think of us at the holidays or at Memorial Day or when we're giving away a free car, things like that. But if you were just to make one more appointment on your calendar, give twice a year instead of once a year or three times a year instead of twice a year, it really would prevent blood shortages during all of those peak seasons. You're exactly right. And we're so excited to partner with the Lexington Fire Department. What does that mean for you all? Oh, it's so great for us. The fire department is obviously saving local lives as well. We kind of feel like our missions really align. And if they're treating people and taking people to the hospitals, those people are going to get blood from Kentucky Blood Center donors. And so it really makes sense for, you know, two groups of lifesavers to get together and try to, you know, hit this goal that they have and celebrate a wonderful organization. And it really, you know, it's a momentous anniversary they're having. Oh, it totally is. And 150, I'm contributing today towards that goal. So I hope you'll do the same. You know, one of the things we talk about is how do we get other people involved? So during COVID, people, I think, have been a little bit nervous about, is it safe to donate? What are the rules about donating? Can I be vaccinated? What if I'm not? Can you talk a little bit about what does that mean today to donate? Who can? Absolutely. We want people who are healthy and well to come and donate. And so we say that's always, whether there was COVID or not, you need to feel good on the day that you donate. You know, we're wearing masks in the donor centers. We're not because we're doing this interview and we want you to hear us. But we're wearing masks in our donor centers to keep people safe, socially distancing our beds. Our mobile crews are sanitizing and keeping people safe when they come out. You don't have to be vaccinated to donate blood, but certainly you can be. And you can actually get vaccinated and come donate the same day. There's no deferral period between those two things. So it's safe to donate. Absolutely, we encourage people. You know, we've had less mobiles during COVID because places of business have been remote. And so if we normally would go down to the central bank building, if all those offices are empty, there's no point in us going there. And so some of those things have started to come back. Now we're starting to see some things because of the variant start to close down again. So it is important if you can give to give. Our donor centers are a wonderful place. So, you know, we're in Beaumont and over on two different sides of town. Easy and safe to come donate. You're right. We're actually in the middle of the 10th district right here in Beaumont Center Drive, but there are several others around. And if you're a business and you want to be involved or have your team donate, who would they contact to do that? Yeah, they can visit our website, www.kybloodcenter.org, or call 800-775-225-22. Ask for a recruiter in your area. We can set something up with you. If your business isn't large enough to host a drive, What we'll do is oftentimes maybe encourage you to partner with other businesses in your area. So if three or four businesses are all together and all their employees want to donate, we can bring a blood mobile and park in a central location. So there's lots of ways we can be creative and help, or we can host you in center. We do a lot of business drives in center, especially during COVID. Lexmark employees were coming in. So lots of different folks were kind of just encouraging their people who were working remotely to head to our donor centers. That's a great idea. You know, it's so easy. Now the app really does help. I mean, you can do that quick like online, like I did this morning. walk right in, they scan it, and you really save a lot of time doing it. It doesn't take very long to donate. No, exactly. The quick pass is something you can do on the day, the actual date. So after midnight on the day, you're going to donate. You fill out all those health history questions, and that takes about 15 minutes to do it in a center. So that saves you 15 minutes of time in our donor center. So it's a great thing to do. And look, and she's already done donating. I'm already done. So in the few moments that we've been here talking, I was able to save three lives. And I really think it's a valuable thing. I mean, our bodies are such an amazing thing. and being able to do this really just takes personal sacrifice and making the time to do it and giving the life to somebody else who needs it, especially those here in Lexington, really makes a big difference. So I hope you will really consider joining and donating towards the 150 goal. And it's such an honor and privilege to be here. I love serving on the Kentucky Blood Center Board. And you can donate and sign up to make sure your donation goes towards the Lexington Fire Department's anniversary drive. Thanks for watching Talk of the Tenth, and we'll see you soon. Thank you. I want brick house. Even now, when there's someone else who cares When there's someone home who's waiting just for me Even now I think about you as I'm climbing up the stairs And I wonder what to do so she won't see That even now, when I know it wasn't right And I've found a better life than what we had Even now I wake up crying in the middle of the night And I can't believe it still could hurt so bad Even now that I have come so far I wonder where you are I wonder why it's still so hard without you Even now, when I come shining through I swear I think of you And how I wish you knew Even now Even now, when I never hear your name And the world has changed so much since you've been gone Even now, I still remember And the feeling's still the same And this pain inside of me goes on and on Even now Even now When I've come so far I wonder where you are I wonder why it's still so hard without you Even now When I come shining through I swear I think of you And God I wish to do Somehow Even now I'm sorry. My heart looks as though they're here to stay Oh, I believe in yesterday Suddenly I'm not half the man I used to be There's a shadow hanging over me Oh, yesterday came suddenly Why she had to go, I don't know, she wouldn't say I said something wrong, now I long for yesterday Yesterday, love was such an easy game to play I need a place to hide away Oh, I believe in yesterday Why she had to go I don't know, she wouldn't say I said something wrong Now I long for yesterday Yesterday Love was such an easy game to play And I need a place to hide away Oh, I believe in yesterday I'm out. I'm hanging out my box tonight I'm begging for a long, long, long chance Be good to yourself Nobody knows what's going on Be good to yourself You're walking out high I'm burning up my smile I'll be good to your side We can't give no more You want it all but you gotta say no I'm turning off the noise It makes me crazy Looking back with no regrets Too forgiving, too forgiving I want to live a piece of my own tongue too Be good to yourself Nobody else will Be good to yourself You won't go on your head You won't go on your head You won't go on your side Oh, we're good to yourself If you're good to yourself when nobody else can Yeah! We'll be right back. I'm out. So you're leaving in the morning on the early train Well I could say everything's alright And I could pretend and say goodbye Got your ticket, got your suitcase Got your leaving smile Well I could say that's the way it goes And I could pretend that you won't know That I was lying Cause I can't stop loving you No, I can't stop loving you No, I won't stop loving you Why should I? We took a taxi to the station, not a word to say. And I saw you walk across the road for maybe the last time I don't know. Feeling humble, couldn't be wrong, I'm the railway truck. And when I hear the whistle I'll walk away And you won't know That I'll be crying Cause I can't stop loving you No, I can't stop loving you No, I won't stop loving you Why should I? I'll always be here by your side Thank you. Good afternoon everyone. I'd like to call this meeting to order. It is now 1.31, September 9th, 2021. Welcome everyone to the Urban County Planning Commission subdivision and zoning items meeting. First on the agenda, the approval of minutes. These minutes will be just for the August 12th, 2021 minutes, not the July 8th, based on the agenda. So we need a motion for the approval of the August 12th minutes. Yes, Mr. Penn. I move for approval of the August 12th minute as presented by staff. We have a motion by Mr. Penn. Do we have a second? Second. Seconded by Mr. DeMovillen. Please vote via Granicus. Okay. Thank you. Motion passes. Next up, before we get to postponements and or withdrawals, We have letters of credits on my last agenda. Do we still have that in performance bonds? Performance bonds and letters of credit? Is that on my sheet? It wasn't on my sheet either. Okay, no, it was on my old one. So that's all. So we'll go to postponements and over draws. Good afternoon Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission, Bruce Simpson on behalf of Windale Development Item E on page 3. We're still working with the staff on some conditions, proposed conditions for this development plan and we'd like to ask for a postponement for 30 days to see if those could be resolved that the planning commission, the grant sent your request. Okay. Does any commission member have any questions or concern about this postponement for 30 days? Do we have any citizens that would like to speak as well? Not seeing any. Okay, the floor is open for a motion for a one-month postponement. To what? What's the next meeting date? Be the 14th? It will be the 14th for the October 14th meeting. Mr. DeMovlin? I'll move for a postponement of PLNNJDP 2139 Mill Creek Subdivision to October 14th. We have a motion and a seconded by Ms. Boxdale. Please vote via Granicus. Okay, motion passes. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, all right. Mr. Chairman, staff has another item to bring to the commission's attention. Okay. I would like to direct your attention to page two, item B. This is a major development plan, 19-61, the Stonewall Shopping Center. You all may recall you all had a discussion in the recent past about cross-access between some properties on the shopping center. This is the Shell Station development plan. They are still working with the adjoining property owner on some issues, and so they requested a one-month postponement. Okay, thank you Tom. So we have a request for a one month postponement for the October 14th meeting. Do we have a motion? Mr. Chairman. Yes, Mr. Penn. You won't ask me about the audience. Does anyone in the audience would like to be heard given this particular application and this postponement? All right, not seeing any. Mr. Penn. Mr. Chairman, I move for one month postponement to October the 14th for PLNMJDP 1961. Second. Thank you. Seconded by Mr. DeMovlin. Please vote via Granicus. There we go. Okay, motion passes. And I was correct. We do have performance bonds and letters of credit. It's on page four, item C. The floor is open for a motion of acceptance of the performance bonds and letter of credit. Mr. Chairman, I've moved to accept the performance bonds and letter of credit as presented by staff. Thank you, sir. We got a motion. Do we have a second? Second. Seconded by Ms. Meyer. Please vote via Granicus. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Do we have any more or postponements or withdrawals? I'm not seeing any staff on the consent agenda. Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman. We do have several plans that are eligible for your consent agenda today. We will present these to you and then ask if any member of the committee or audience member would like to have a plan withdrawn and be heard. The first item on your consent agenda today is on page one. It's item A. It is a final record plat that was recommended for approval by the subdivision committee. This is property at 851 Muir Station Road and 5222 Paris Pike. It is 21-36 Rosemont Farm, LLC. And again, your subdivision committee did recommend this for approval. And the second item on your consent agenda is on page 2. It is item A. This is a final development plan, 19-52 Kids House Child Care Center. It's located at 1449 and 1452 Bryan Avenue. This is a request for reapproval, and your subdivision committee has recommended that to you today. The third item on your consent agenda is on page 4, and this is item F. This is a major development plan, 21-041 Maple Leaf Subdivision, Unit 1, Lot 4, amended. This is property located at 3151 Maple Leaf Drive at Lexington, Kentucky. And I would just add that there is a typo on the agenda on the number of units in that particular development. They are actually proposing 10 additional units than what you see on your agenda, 240 instead of 220. Fred, I can't hear you. You're going to have to. Oh, I'm sorry. Ten more. 230. I said 40. Pardon me. That was my bad math. Yeah, 10 more, not 20. 230 units as opposed to 220. I would also add that it says 19 conditions because there's two number 19s. There's actually 20 conditions on that plan. But, again, these are the three items on your consent agenda as recommended by your subdivision committee. And we will now ask if there's anyone in the audience who would like to pull one of these plans. And apparently not. And is there anyone on the commission, of course, who would like to hear one of the plans on the consent agenda? Mr. Chairman, I leave it to you and the commission. Thank you, sir. The floor is open for a motion for the acceptance of the consent agenda as presented by staff. Mr. DeMovlin. Mr. Chair, I approve to make a motion that we approve the consent agenda as presented by staff. Thank you. We have a motion and a second by Mr. Bell. All in favor, please vote via Granicus. Okay, consent agenda passes as presented. So that should put us on page two with staff, PLN, MJDP, dash 20, dash 61. The Stonewall was postponed. Mr. Chairman, members of the Planning Commission, the first item to be heard on your agenda today is at the bottom of page two it is major development plan 20-61 the James R. Massengill property located at 701 and 705 East Loudon. Here we go now this is East Loudon at this location Here's Contact Street. This is a corner lot. There is a convenience store in this location. Sales gas in a convenience store, typical. It's been there for quite a few years. It's gone through several incarnations under various logos and brands. But they are proposing on this particular development plan to add a car sales area adjacent to this property in this location. Here are the gas canopies, by the way, that are on the property with access into the property from both contact and from Loudon. It is in this area that they're proposing. It's a very small area, some car sales. Now, this was previously approved by this body. During the sign-off process, as you all are aware, you all conditionally approve plans. and then the applicant has to meet conditions on the plans. They brought it back to you to ask you to help solve a condition that they've been unable to reach an agreement with an agency, traffic engineering specifically, on this particular issue. Now, staff has joined in, your planning staff, with the discussion on this property. and the major concern on these properties is that you have a car lot and you have another use and invariably i say invariably not in all cases but there are cases about town where the use particularly the car lot bleeds over into the adjoining property and creates issues because they are to be specifically separated. They're not physically separated, but the use needs to be separated. The car lot, you have space to put the cars for sale on that portion of the property. And so you can see we're talking about right through here. And again, it's a small piece of property. The concern, if cars are to start showing up over here that are for sale, they're going to block the parking, the required parking. They're going to block the pumps or create difficulty in people moving through this lot. It's very small. As you're all aware, there's a lot of these around our town. They've been here a long time. You hear these discussions frequently on access and maneuverability on these smaller lots, and that is the issue today that is before you. Now, staff has recommended, and we believe that traffic engineering and the applicant are agreeable, we can craft a note to go on this development plan that will address these uses and address them in such a way that should a problem arise, then your enforcement, your zoning enforcement people have that plan to guide them and can go out there and say to the owner, move your cars, okay, get them off this property, okay, and we believe that that can be done and the enforcement process can be followed. And we do believe we can craft that note. And the applicant has expressed some concerns about what happens if the convenience store goes away and the car lot is a legal business, it is, well, then that could be addressed. That can be addressed through the normal processes. Convenience store goes away, they want to sell cars and use that entire lot to sell cars, it's a legal use. we can certainly, we're confident, we can craft a note that will address that issue. But that's why you're here today. They brought it back to you. There's been some difficulties in communication, perhaps, and not through lack of trying, I don't believe. But again, the other issue that is of some concern, that again I believe that I think we can be resolved after you hear some more details about it today there's been some issues with the access into the site in the existing condition of the drive apron and the sidewalks and some ADA compliance and again there's been some communication back and forth traffic and traffic's here to elaborate on their concerns for you is about the appropriate materials and what's being done to address these conditions it is staff's understanding and their representatives here today that they've attempted to address some of these things so again with that I wanted to set the stage for the Planning Commission help you understand where we are today and why it's before you I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have for planning staff and again as I said traffic engineering is here today to kind of elaborate on some of their concerns and the applicant of course is here as well. If you have any questions for me I'll be happy to try to answer them. Any questions for Mr. Martin? Yes Mr. Pinn. Mr. Martin is the convenience store and the car lot owned by the same person? it is our understanding that yes they are so it's a it's a one deed property yes sir they are separate properties they are separate lots they they they've not been consolidated they actually are separate lots which is not an issue on on a development plan separate lots of separate plats well it's one development plan but separate when i say separate lots yes they're on separate plats Thank you. I believe one of these may never have actually been platted, but this is an older area, older than you might think in this particular part of our community. Thank you. Okay, thank you, Mr. Mark. Not seeing any. Thank you. Thank you. Traffic. I'm sorry. Either way. Either way. You make that call. I'll make it. Yes, we really had traffic up first. I'm Stephen Parker with traffic engineering. I believe Mr. Martin is covered in the topic pretty thoroughly. I'll be glad to answer any questions. Thank you, Steve. Okay, applicant. Good afternoon. Kevin Phillips with Interest Engineering. Here on behalf of Mr. Rayann. So it's actually owned by two different entities. They are family. So there's Jess Rayann, who owns this Rayann Auto Sales. And I think it's, I'm not certain, I think it's his Uncle Joe actually owns and runs the convenience store next door. Excuse me. So two different ownerships. Obviously, it's a small car lot that would be here. He owns a larger dealership kind of across from Green's Toyota on New Circle Road. So as I would imagine, they would probably cycle inventory from one site to the other just to gain a different audience or more audience, I suppose, as he would move vehicles from site to site. Because obviously there's only room for half a dozen or eight cars to be parked along the side here. So here I guess for three different points here today. One is an extension or a re-approval because this will expire in October, so it'll expire next month, so we want to go ahead and get that renewed. The second item is this. It was requested at some point here in the past couple of months that there be a restriction or note restricting the use of the convenience store lot on the face of this development plan. And it seemed like a use, it seemed like a restriction at the time, it seemed like a restriction that was nigh on a conditional zoning restriction. And I wasn't prepared to do that on behalf of the owner. because if the convenience store ceases to be, then certainly they want to reserve the right to expand their car lot into that property as that other convenience store use disappears. And I thought that note on the development plan and its initial thrust was it would not allow that without coming back before you. That didn't really seem like the best route to go because the normal case would be the store would go away. They would go to building inspection, apply for an occupancy as for that different use. And it wouldn't come back to the planning commission. That's a very, I think, normal set of things. When businesses go out, another business comes in, building inspection permits it, and it goes along in that way without having to come back before you. So I believe we can come up with some language, some different language, that restricts the use so long as the convenience store is operating such that the car sales would not extend over into that lot. But if that convenience store ceases to exist and the car lot wants to move over there and occupy that space as a different use, then it would be allowed to be permitted that way. So I think Tom is right. We can draft a note that will allow that to happen without causing a truly a conditional zoning sort of restriction to be placed on the property. And the third thing is it's been requested in one of the initial comment from TRC back in October of last year. There were a couple of items. One of them was that the pavement markings needed to be refreshed on the site. they have done that we submitted photographs of that of that restriping I'm happy to share those with you on the overhead if you want to see them those pictures have been submitted to planning and traffic engineering and didn't get any comment one way the other back about them but the striping has been redone the other item I was going to share with you some photos so the other other comment back in October was that the entrance off a contract street needed to be reconstructed and the sidewalks along the property need to be replaced along the I'm sorry the sidewalks along contract Street needed to be replaced so I was going to share some pictures with you and see if you are in agreement with that I don't physically see anything deficient about them they're not cracked I think there's one scene that has risen above the other that needs to be milled down, but there's a separation of maybe an inch and a half or two inches on just one instance. I can put these on the overhead and just let you look at them, and I'll sort of walk you through them. There's just a few, and we'll just look at a couple of them. I'm going to have to go old school on them. I didn't bring a PowerPoint, so they're trying to figure out how to use the overhead. So the plan has changed. While they're getting that set up, as it was approved last October, the plan included a garage on the backside of the retail building, and that has since been eliminated. So all we're asking for at this point is what's shown in that rendering, which is the existing convenience store and then the small retail office that's off to the left side there. So that is the current configuration. We have sort of an outstanding sort of a technical issue. We're waiting on traffic to comment on whether they wanted the handicap parking right up next to the retail building or if we can put it where it's shown on the rendering actually, which is further away from the retail building, of course, but is likely an easier traffic maneuver to get in and out of that handicap stall. But that's just going to be the preference of what traffic likes better. one or the other. It's not really an issue that we talk about. Thank you. So that is the entrance just beyond that gray truck is the entrance apron from Contract Street. I think the next picture is closer up. I kind of sort of got down on the ground to show you that the sidewalk, entrance apron is a common problem with entrance aprons historically has been that the sloping part coming off the street would extend all the way through the sidewalk and it would create a sidewalk that was sloped beyond the ada regulation so let's say it was a four percent slope or something instead of a you know a two percent slope so there's a maximum cross slope on the sidewalk of two percent i don't see anything there that that tells me that's more than two percent it looks as flat as the sidewalk uh there may be a little rise there that they can mill off almost cosmetic in nature, but if they needed to mill that off a little bit to make it a smoother transition. But it's not really even as bad as it looks maybe in that picture. But anyway, the notion is it's flat and it is not sloped like the true apron that's to the left there. So that was the apron issue, and then I just took a series of photos just looking down the sidewalk. And just kind of flip through those. It's going to go down Contract Street. But again, no cracks. I don't see anything that is abhorrent or out of tolerance in the sections of sidewalk. Yeah, so I think the scene that's kind of where the white ends about halfway up that photo, I think that's the scene that has that offset in it that needs to be milled down probably, but that's the only section of sidewalk I see that needed to be any remediation done on it. It's just continuing on down toward Loudoun Avenue. See, probably skip ahead, probably to the, there's nothing earth shattering about these, they're all the same. I expect that that was actually installed when they improved. Loudoun Avenue was installed or improved a few years ago. I'm of the age that things seem like they weren't that long ago, but it's probably been a half dozen or more years ago when they did it but they widened and improved Loudon Avenue I suspect that's when that was put in this is a sidewalk along Loudon Avenue and then I think the very last picture is that is the apron that the city put in during that widening so this is the entrance apron onto Loudon Avenue looking toward town I guess you'd say so yeah these are dark but the note So the city installed that one, or the city's contractor installed that one. To me, it doesn't look significantly different. Again, it has the compliant nature of an apron for the first few feet, and then it's flat for the back end of it so that the sidewalk continues on at the ADA-regulated slopes. But again, it doesn't look significantly different than the other apron. So we're asking, I guess, your opinion or to have Steve respond, have traffic engineering respond to exactly what the deficiencies are with those sidewalks and that entrance apron. And to, I guess, to verify that the markings have been refreshed as they were requested back in October. and again finally to ask for a re-approval of the plan so it doesn't expire on us next month. I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have. Does any commission members have any questions for the applicant at this time? Yeah, I do. Okay, Mr. Penn. Kevin, did you and the staff entertain the idea of just putting a number of cars that allowed to be there rather than try to interpret how many you can cram on that lot. You know, we've had a situation three years ago on Parris Pike where we had a small lot like this, and pretty soon it got the point to where, you know, it just couldn't function. There was too many cars. Right. So when you and the staff had your conversations, rather than did you all have a conversation about the number of cars that could be on that lot? Not the number. I mean, there's a space allocated to that, to the display area. I mean, I don't think display cars necessarily have to abide by the 9 foot by 18 foot. I mean, you could basically put them in there as close as you could get them. Nobody's accessing them in parking, but they are truly displays. But, you know, I have, I think the striping is not shown on the plan for the display cars, but I think there was room for six to eight, maybe even just six. I'm not talking about how close you put it together. I'm talking about how do we handle enforcement on this situation? And enforcement is going to be a note on the plan, but the other side of that coin is how many can you get in that lot and how do you enforce that because it's going to be an issue. It's just a question of when and how. right yeah I don't think we have any issues with with stating how many cars could be parked there I think traffic's concern is that the cars would not be parked on the ray and lot which is the skinny lot but they're concerned that the cars would be parked actually on the convenience store lot to me that's a I mean yes we can't really plan for that I mean that that would be essentially an illegal activity at that point because it's not permitted on that site as a a convenience store gas station. But we can't really design for what somebody might do illegally. We're not planning on it. And to some extent, it's a matter of economics. If they were to start jamming the car lot up or the convenience store up with a bunch of parked used cars for sale, then their customers can't get in. So that's sort of that trigger of, well, are we making more money selling cars? We're making more money at a convenience store. And that's when the decision comes to, oh, Well, it looks like we're making a heck of a lot more money in this market selling used cars, so we'll shut down the convenience store. But it seems like it would be self-regulating in that regard as far as cars being jammed up on the convenience store lot. But I don't have any issues with putting a number to how many cars can be parked on the Ray Ann lot. I guess that we hadn't really discussed the number of cars. I mean, I think we have thinking in the statistics. I guess we didn't even put in how many cars were in the statistics, but I want to say it's eight. It was just the area was just designated. Okay. Any more questions for the applicant? Thank you, Kevin. Do we have any citizens that would like to speak either for or against this particular agenda item? You can do so by stepping to the podium. I'm not seeing any. Okay. Staff, do you have anything you want to add, any additional items? You won't call Steve. Steve, okay, he's coming up. So, Mr. Penn, to address your question, traffic engineering asked for defined parking spaces in the display area for that very reason. We wanted to know how many cars were going to be on this lot for sale. We also noted an area behind the building that is not designated as a use, and it could be an area that could become blighted and we were concerned about that. So during TRC, the applicant's representative stated that the first lot was to be used for the car sales, the convenience store lot was not going to be used for the car sales. And what we asked for was a note that clarified that. We weren't trying to impose a restriction, we were trying to define what the applicants had stated and that's what we've asked for all along because if they were going to sell cars because it could still operate as a convenience store and car sales on that lot what traffic engineering wanted was a defined area on that lot as well for either car repairs, car sales, cars display, but what we didn't want was to create an unsafe condition on the lot as a result of the car sales next door and we wanted a clear definition based on what we were told at TRC and subdivision committee meeting and that's where we've kind of gotten to this point. To address the pavement markings that were done in 2019 traffic engineering came up with a parking lot guidelines for all developments to follow if you drive and we had been in contact by the police department and that precipitated that discussion what we came up with was a consistent pavement marking guidelines and standards that we have provided and Mr. Phillips has provided plans on other sites so he was familiar with that the pavement markings that went in are not to those standards Mr. Phillips will have to tell you whether he was aware of those payment markings and either design them or observe them being installed but they do not meet those standards so we have asked that those pavement markings be done to the standards that were in place for all other commercial centers that have come in whether it be refreshes or new developments we've got a standard and and we'll be glad to work with mr. Phillips but he would have to tell you I don't know that answer regarding the entrance on contract Street and the sidewalk the sidewalk we were asking to be replaced was any damaged portions. We noticed some cracks and some offsets. The slope, there's a hump basically and I just gave Tom a copy of and he can bring it up if he wants to, of the standard drawing that engineering has for commercial entrances and what we were asking for was that one to be reconstructed because it does not meet the standards although it looks like it's in it it's held up pretty well for its age but it needs some improvements and this it this detail is what commercial centers follow when they come in so I would like to have the loud and haven't even done but I didn't research to find out if if the city put those in or not. So I'm going to, Mr. Phillips stated that they were installed by us and I'm going to go with that. I'm not going to ask them to replace those if in fact we did put those in. I felt like that was a compromise. They're not really to current standards either, but I'm not going to ask that that be taken care of. The contract street was the only one that we were asking to be taken care of. Okay, any other questions? Steve, thank you. Clear, thank you. So we were not part of the freshening up of the striping. The owner did that. He simply re-striped what was already striped. To be honest, I don't know what doesn't meet the requirements at this point. They're not, unless they have, the only thing I can think is that the handicap striping needs to be thermoplastic? I mean, what's, what is it about the striping that you think is not? I'm sorry. So I would just have to ask the traffic engineer what doesn't meet. Again, the condition was that they needed to be refreshed, and I believe that's what's been done. There were no stop bars and no stop bars now. So if he's asking us to restripe to those, to add striping, I suppose, then that's a different condition than refreshing what's there. As far as the apron, again, I don't know. We can discuss that with him to figure out exactly what he feels is deficient about the aprons. Okay, thank you. Does any commission members have any further questions for staff or either the applicant? Mr. Chair, I have one question. You've been talking to staff about this. What are you all not in agreement on? Well, there has been a bit of a breakdown in communication. I've sent several emails over the last month to six weeks with no response at all, No update in comments on the Sela and no return emails from from my inquiries about even the simplest thing of do you want the handicap parking or to see feel like the handicap parking works better. You know, at the front of the retail building or off to the side. I don't understand that lack of communication, but that's that's where or that's why I'm here today, to be honest, because I just can't seem to communicate effectively through those methods. so I don't know I mean I he seems to think I'm not returning his calls but I haven't gotten any calls so I don't I just don't understand I even had another engineer in town call me the other day asking me to call him back and I said well I don't have any outstanding messages from him so I don't and again I prefer the email just because it's sort of like texting it's something I can review later I can contemplate so you know I've preferred and it's sort of of on the record, if you will, communicate through emails, but I'm not getting any response email wise from him. Okay. I'm not seeing any other hands. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. So we'll close this part of the session out, bring it back to the commission. Already asked. Yeah. I'll just bring it back to the commission for further questions amongst themselves. The floor is open for a motion. Mr. Chair, may I just ask a question before we quite get to that. So that's the engineer's response. Does Steve have a response to his suggestion so we can kind of get everybody together? and so we don't have a sound like it's a communication problem just steve do you have response to what he had to say i mean we you know we're trying to get this sorted out and maybe if we can get the two of you all together we'll get this sorted out i'm not sure what email i i was told that by email that he was not agreeable to a note and today right before this media at 1 o'clock I was I've had other meetings this morning but those photographs were sent at about 11 o'clock today I didn't get those until 1 o'clock because I was in a meeting so but the note was the main sticking point for traffic engineering because we wanted to find that car sales car repairs and storage of vehicles will not occur on the lot that has the convenience store on it and that seemed to be the major sticking point. The handicap stall parking is the issue. It's not to the standards. I'm not asking for thermoplastic. I'd ask for paint. So, but it just wasn't, that's where the breakdown occurred. I did explain that there were options to get car sales, but those weren't agreeable. Thank you. Mr. Chair, if we move for postponement, does that mean they have to bring this all back again? I was thinking that. It seems like, you know, Frank, what do we do here? I was hoping that if we did postpone it, then they can work out the differences. You know, it appears that's where we are. Yeah. But I can't make that motion as a chair. You got it. If I may, Mr. Chairman. Please, somebody. Members of the Planning Commission. I would just like to add that from the Planning Staff's perspective, both Steve and Kevin are very responsible and responsive professionals. We can't speak to sometimes a communication breakdown. staff is comfortable that we can craft a development plan note to address the uses and the number of cars on the property. That's something that we're very used to doing, crafting notes to address these types of issues. Secondly, based, I hope, on the conversation you heard today, there's just a technical issue now of materials and some of your sidewalk repairs, which are actually just basic maintenance that could come about through code enforcement in a normal situation. So I just wanted you to know that staff is comfortable with the reapproval of this plan with traffic is still a sign-off. They still have to be satisfied with what the applicant's doing. And your planning staff is certainly satisfied with the condition to resolve the use and number of vehicles on the lots. So I just wanted to inform you all of that. So, Mr. Martin, do you think we should have a postponement, or are you suggesting that we re-approve? Oh, we believe you could re-approve it, and this can be worked out. We do. Eadley, if I may respond. Thank you. If I may respond to your question, what we've actually done here today is get a lot on the record. And so this is not the way we want to do these things. We want it to be worked out, Kevin, and you know that. you've been forced for years and we really want these things to be worked at before we come we're not we're not design professionals you know we want to meet the code but what we've done today inadvertently we've got on the record of what we expect and so therefore he leave the re-approval i think would work because what we've said to the staff is this is what we need to have happen and let them figure it out so with that mr chair i'd like to move for re-approval of PLNMJDP 2061 James Massengale property with the 13 conditions as stated please. Okay so we got a motion for the re-approval of PLNMJDP-20-61. What about the resolve of the parking? Are we going to make that a second motion or is that part of the first motion? That's the new Mr. Bell. And move for resolving the parking as where with regard to as in where are you speaking of? Sorry. As it resolves the use of the number of parking of the vehicles per the staff. I presume from what Mr. Martin was saying that they would sort all that out. but I don't know exactly what we need. So we don't have to reference that in this motion. Well, you may add a condition if you like, and it would be to resolve the uses between the properties and the number of cars for sale that can be placed on the property. That would be great. So I would like to add the condition that we resolve the number of parking places that can be placed on the lot, please. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, that was a long motion, but we got it. We have a second by Mr. Davis. Any further discussion to that motion? Okay, please vote via Granicus, either for or against. Okay, motion passes unanimously. Thank you. Hold on one second. We're missing one. I'm on the wrong place. I'll just say yes. Can I just say yes? I can get you out of here. Thank you. correct? That's 32 and we do have revised recommendations on yellow sheet. Are we ready? Okay, good afternoon. We are at MJDP 21-32, Mickler, Jennings, and Shelton property amendment. This is located at 2891 Richmond Road. There we go. Sorry about that. this is Richmond Road this is actually the service road running parallel to Richmond Road this is the property of Mickler Jennings and Shelton this is an access easement that'll lead you back to the Lowe's in the rear we have Chili's over here they're coming in with the development to redevelop the property with a restaurant with drive-through and two other retail stores here the driveway access that's already existing they're going to lead that and create two lots this is one lot that they're developing and this is going to be the remaining portion of another lot which will be developed at another time they came in with a revised plan the reason when they first came in one of the items that was not submitted when they submitted their application. They did not put in a tree inventory map. So at the time we had postponed it at the beginning. They have come back in, and they did revise the plan, and they've done a lot of cleanup conditions, as you can see on the yellow sheet on the report. They still have a couple items that we need to review. view. We have all our standard conditions. We just need street cross sections. We like to see where the cross section is located for each road when on the site plan. addition of site statistics for the entire development this is an access easement that leads you back to the lows and this is all part of one development so we'd like to have this information also on the site statistics for that addition of a vehicular use screening at the rear of lot 1 this being lot 1 we need to see a vehicle use screening along the rear portion of the property even though this is vacant and be developed at another time, it still needs to be here. We had two discussion questions. One, discuss proposed front access adjacent to Lowe's property. They're showing an access point right here. They're showing it as right in, right out. This is an access easement that goes back to the Lowe's. There's a lot of traffic when people come off the Richmond Road, come down the service road to go back to Lowe's and then people coming out of Lowe's. Traffic engineering has been working with them and talking with us and we believe this is not appropriate because it's too close to the access to the service road. So we want to leave that as a discussion. And the other discussion question is, discuss tree species size, location, and proposed protection on the property per article 26-4 of the zoning ordinance. As I said, at the time of the plan submittal, they had not given us a tree inventory map, tree protection map. They did submit a tree inventory map. They do have a tree inventory map and we had some concerns with the development that they had proposed with the trees that are on the property. I'm going to allow Tal Martin to go a little more detail into this. Mr. Chairman, members of the Planning Commission, I'm going to see if I can do this right. I'm going to hop back just for one moment to elaborate on the access issue. this access as proposed this is a response in a revised plan to staff concerns however traffic engineering has expressed strong concerns that this is not functional okay that's so they're still it's not just the impact that these access points can have on what is right of way and the numerous conflicts that exist, it's that they don't believe. And they have looked at some alternatives, and they would like the opportunity to go over those alternatives with the applicant. And the reason I just wanted to bring that up again is because that also brings us back to the tree inventory and to the site. And Cheryl was correct. Initially, they did not submit the required tree inventory. Subsequently, they did, as you can see here. and you can see how it presents the canopy. It's a good inventory. We like those. They show a lot of trees, where they are. They identify them by species. You can see all through here. And you can see, it is a heavily treed site. You all are probably very familiar with the site. It's the site with the Sunshine Grow Shop in the front and the particular significant tree in question by size is this large pin oak that exists here. But this discussion centers on more than one tree. It's on several trees. It's on the site as a whole with the trees. And the applicant, by not submitting this particular information up front, is what's slowed the discussion down for staff to work with the applicant to try to reach a solution that meets their needs and also meets the ordinance as well. The Article 26 that governs your tree protection, and I've handed out something for you, and it's just a section of 26. Some of you have yellow ones, some of you have orange ones. It's the same thing. I just entertained myself by switching up the colors a little bit so you could see. Again, in describing the site, it is heavily treated with this. This is a 52-inch, although I believe the site was visited by an arborist that thinks it may be around 55 inches as opposed to 52 inches. It's a very significant pin oak tree. There are also, through this area, a large number of oaks. Down here, there's a walnut, a large walnut. That may be it right there. No, there it is. There's a large walnut. But again, there's a lot of trees. There's sweet gum. There's some cypress. There are trees here in the back that are obviously landscape trees. They're apple trees, red buds, things that got planted over the years as the site was developed or utilized. Some of them may be volunteers. I mean, we really don't know. Staff's not sure. But the significant thing, and what Article 26 does, it identifies not only the large trees, 36 inches in circumference, to be protected regardless of species. They also identify species. In this particular case, oak is that species. And it mentions a lot of different... So there's a lot of oaks on this site, all down through here. Now, again, this is a good map. It gives you a good indication of what they want to do on the site. And what you see in red, in essence, are trees that will be removed by their development. Now, there's a street view of the site and you can see the tree in question. You can see the large pin oak that is a very dominating feature on the site, very recognizable as well. The applicant has submitted, and you should have a copy, a letter to Tim Query, who is our urban forester. and this has been distributed to you as well, and they've outlined their position on how they believe they're meeting Article 26 and with their rationale for their proposal. They have, in essence, stated and cited, you can see when you look at that, they've cited Article 26, and they've added some emphasis. And they've stated that development can be allowed and demonstration of compliance of these standards are through the planting of new trees. This is accurate. And they go on to state, as necessary, the number of trees as is reasonable and practical. And certainly 26 says that. 26 also says, and it's in their statement as well, but they didn't highlight it, and that's why I handed this out to you. This is 26-4D, Review of Development Design. The basis for review of a tree protection plan shall be the design of a development so as to protect and preserve the greatest number of trees as is reasonable and practical. again and they feel like they've addressed that and they've highlighted that. Individual trees should be removed only as necessary to carry out permitted development under the approved zoning of the site and this use is permitted in this zone and or to achieve the objectives of the comprehensive plan such as to provide continuity in the design of collector streets, stormwater facilities, or familiar infrastructure elements, and provided that the design of the development has maximized the preservation of tree stands and significant trees. Now, they didn't highlight that in their statement to you when we talk about significant trees. And so we have, beyond doubt, under our ordinance, a significant tree by size and species, along with adjacent trees that you can see here that are oaks, the majority of them oaks, again, that are significant trees. Now, the applicant has stated that they feel like there aren't specific standards in 36. They're vague and they're broad. Well, Article 26 has to deal with all of our urban service area in many different sites, in many different circumstances, in many different trees and tree stands, existing trees. So... Again, yes, the standards may appear to be vague and broad. Staff does not believe they are. They believe they're necessary in order to allow your staff and your urban forester to address plans as they come in appropriately so that we can be practical and reasonable in addressing the conflicts. Now, there are no infrastructure issues here. there aren't staff would be the first to tell you sometimes trees got to go we're putting in a sewer line got to have public sewer we're putting in a road got to have public right away that's not the issue here the issue actually comes down to the use of the property and what's practical and what's reasonable the applicant has stated again in his letter for their justifications that, again, it is a B3 use. They believe they need to remove these trees. That's practical. They have a lease. They have a user. And they state that. They have an end user on this property. However, I would have to point out again that they did not submit this tree information up front as required under Article 21. So when we got this plan, it was this is our plan, this is what we need, and this is what we want. And staff said, well, you know you've got this big beautiful tree, and you've got other trees, and we need to talk about that. And they said, we understand. They came back with the tree inventory. They came back with what you saw before you. They gave the required information. and virtually the same plan with a tweak to the access point, stating once again, this is what we want. And so this is practical, and this is the design. Well, we can appreciate that they signed a lease. That, however, is not relevant to this discussion, actually, to your considerations. It's a private agreement. Had they followed Article 21, they would have submitted the information up front and we'd have been ahead of this game a little bit further because no doubt again we understand this there's there's timing issues that impact development impact these private agreements we also recommend we don't require an article 21 that you meet with staff before you file a development plan and try to identify issues Now staff is aware that we had a discussion about the B3 zoning from an applicant or an applicant's representative about what can we do here. That's typical we get those calls all the time. I had a discussion with the applicant on subdividing the property and they do have a plat that has been reviewed and approved by the technical committee that's going through the system to subdivide the property. But again, the tree issue and having an opportunity to sit down with them and look at a different design to try to save this tree, staff believes that that's important and we believe we still need to do that. Now they go on to talk about the pin oak and again pin oak is a common species. They're correct. It's not a recommended street tree. They're correct. You know why? The roots are shallow, they tear up sidewalks, they grow, they drop acorns. They do. And people don't like to walk on acorns and et cetera. And this is not a street tree, ladies and gentlemen. As you know, members of the commission, this is sitting right in the middle of that property. Big, beautiful pin oak. Now, there's different opinions how old it is. And I met with the tree board and they were of the opinion and there's various arborists, they're almost like lawyers, you get them together, well they're all going well we're not sure how old that tree is but it could be 50, it could be 70, it could be a hundred, it could be older. It's in an urban environment. Penn Oaks apparently are that way in this area so it's kind of hard, but it's easy to see that it's a significant tree, that it's large, and it's healthy. And its importance to the environment and its function as a large tree can't really be overstated at this point. It's hard to replace these, and you all hear it all the time, and we accept criticism, particularly from the public, about when we take out large trees, because sometimes you have to. Sometimes there is a practical and reasonable reason to take out a large tree, and that is why we also have canopy requirements. The fact that it has acorns and that sort of thing in this location shouldn't be an issue, obviously, in staff's opinion. As to it being a common tree, well, that's a good thing. Staff is of the opinion it's good to have them. If they're common, that means this is a good place for them and we need them. and this one has shown that it can obviously respond and do well in the bluegrass. So staff, I would add that they have expressed concern, and again, we understand this, about visibility. Well, businesses want to be visible. We did have some discussions with them about some possible design changes. Moving the building up, that will certainly grant you more visibility. That wasn't acceptable. There's circulation issues. and they want a drive-through. We understand the conflicts that have been created on the plan. So just again, the tree is somewhere in this location. Here's the line of oaks. So they do need, they're asking for and they need for this business to have two drive-throughs. And again, access, we can appreciate the functionality. but the simple fact is staff was presented with a plan they said this is it this is our plan and we said we would like to talk to you about an alternative design and we do have ideas about another design we've actually had one I'm not saying it's the absolutely one to go with but the fact is there are other ways to look at this site and try and try to incorporate this tree into the site. As for signage and visibility, there's nothing better in staff's opinion along this section of Richmond Road to advertise who you are or locate you than this tree. It's very visible for quite a distance and up and down Richmond Road as you're all aware. So staff is recommending again a postponement of this plan. We want to continue to talk to this applicant about this issue. The access issue plays into the tree issue. It plays into the redesign of this site and we we are actually our message to you today is we need more time to work with this applicant to see what we can work out and and and hopefully again achieve best results we can for them and their client as well as the community and and the trees oh with that I'll answer your questions you may have for staff any questions for staff yes mr. Nichol yes I do have a question for you and thank you for providing this 26-4 review of development design I just did some back of the napkin numbers here on this tree this proposed restaurant site is 4200 square 204 square feet and it looks like this tree is right in the middle of that correct sir okay so the tree is right in the middle of that we're looking at probably 25 bucks a square foot lease rate at a six cap we're looking at a 1.7 million dollar tree right here if you have the ability with with an alternative plan to achieve the same square footage for retail leasable space and parking and drive-through, I'd love to know if that's the case. Staff would agree, Mr. Nichols. Yes. So you can do it? We believe that that site could be redesigned. With the same square footage in parking? With the tree. Yes, sir. Thank you. Appreciate it. I didn't bring it with me. actually seen one done by staff but we don't tend to get that far into things yeah with you all when it comes but we thank you any further questions okay thank you Tom applicant mr. Groves good afternoon everybody I am unlike mr. Phillips earlier I usually would bring a PowerPoint but I wasn't 100% certain what staff would say so rather than have a PowerPoint with 50 different pictures I printed some off so I could show you guys everything we have had discussions I would like to just clarify for the record I don't like to get into he said she said with staff but I will like to clarify that myself and mr. Hill did meet with mr. Martin I believe via zoom we did specifically talk about the trees before we filed we have talked with miss Galt I believe several times before we filed our plan so it's it's it's a misremembering of facts to say that we didn't speak with the staff before the plan I will say since we had our technical review committee in our subdivision committees we have talked with the urban forester four or five times we've had several conversations with mr. Parker on the traffic issue issues, his concerns. We've had a conversation with Mr. Vaughn. I've reached out to Hillard Newman. So once again, to say that we haven't talked with staff, part of the problem is, and you probably will hear this a lot, is that sometimes we don't know as applicants who to talk to because we've got multiple agencies, multiple staff members. We're never really 100% certain who's taken the lead on which particular issue. So in this instance, we thought we were doing the appropriate item and having our discussions with the urban forester as to the pin oak and so if that if that was not the appropriate way to go about it we apologize but that's what we thought was the most productive was to talk to the particular expert as to this tree now it looks like there are a couple issues on this plan. I'm going to kind of break them down on the tree issue and then also we'll talk about the traffic on the access point issue. So I'm going to show you if I could I'm gonna give it here's the copy for record. We can put that on the overhead. I'll let you guys pass this around. Okay, thank you sir. Is there any better we could... Maybe we dim the lights a little bit. That's a little bit better. So it's hard to see, but what we try to do is we try to impose our development plan. So just so everyone knows, currently this is the two lots together are approximately two acres. The front lot will be one acre. the back lot will be a little bit over two only because what we've got here is we're designing it to where the new building which will hopefully be coming back to you in a few months to discuss the new building we're narrowing down our end user for this building is going to go here so we wanted to keep this drive aisle put the building here so that from Richmond Road and the service road you have visibility and everyone knows in retail visibility is the key you can't hide buildings which is kind of an example if you look at across the street the development behind the Chili's and that's reason it's completely vacant because I talk to brokers all the time because there's no visibility so they're having a hard time leasing that up and then here what we've got sorry I'll get closer and then we're then we were gonna put our building in this location which unfortunately is where that the tree is currently located and this is once again this is a one acre site as this Planning Commission is aware you're wary of speculative buildings and also in other things so in this instance it's not speculative we've got users we discussed with our users what their preferred layout was for them to be successful at this location it's going to be a high quality restaurant that's known to the community. We think they're gonna be very successful at this location and so are they. So do they. So that's kind of just the overview of the site. Now they did not show you, they did show you our tree inventory plan. They did not show you the plan where we show when we are preserving trees. So if I could put that up there. All right, from that one, I'll just, Hal, I'll let you know that way. Not that one. There we go. So if you see here, these trees here, we are preserving all of these trees. We are planting new trees here. We're planting new trees here, planting new trees here. Currently, that would work better. Currently, the tree canopy on the one-acre site is currently 29% is the tree canopy. Our plan is going to be a 30% tree canopy when we're done. So we're actually going to increase the tree canopy, even though the pin oak will not be present on the site. The tree canopy will increase. the city has set a goal of 30% for tree canopy across the county our particular zone only requires 20% so we're gonna meet the city's goal we're gonna have 20 10% more than we're required to have on our site so we are preserving a number of trees I'm a little surprised they didn't Tom didn't talk about this that we submitted to them as it shows you exactly what our plans are which trees are gonna be protected which ones are gonna be planted anew and gets us to above and beyond what we're required to do underneath this particular zone. I do want to address my letter. I think Tom had a very good staff spin on the law and the facts. I appreciate us being able to go back and forth on some of these issues. But I think at the end of the day, the only clear standard in Article 26 is... I need a microphone. I walk too much. The only clear standard in Article 26 is that a B3 zone needs 20% tree canopy. And other than that, it's pretty vague. It talks about significant trees. It specifically talks about certain varieties of trees are significant, burr oaks, chin oaks, other things of that nature, blue ash. This is not one of those. It just happens to be a big tree that's larger than 15-inch diameter, and it happens to be in the oak family. I think, I see the urban foresters here, I think he would confirm the pin oaks are not favored trees. They are not good trees. They are short-lived trees. Our arborist pins this tree at somewhere between 80, 100 years old. I think that, from what I can tell, 120 is a maximum one of these trees will live. I think Mr. Query says he thinks the tree may be 100 years old. So Mr. Martin is right. But at the end of the day, this tree is in its maturity cycle. So at this point, every day this tree is dying a natural death. And as it dies a natural death every day, it becomes more dangerous, more limbs fall. I personally have four pin oaks, the same size, in my neighbor's yard right next to me. I can tell you every time it storms, I've got limbs in my yard from these trees. They're very common. Woodbine, I live next to Lafayette High School. I'm a general. I've lived there most of my life. Woodbine probably has 50 of these trees of a similar size on Woodbine. So this isn't a bur oak. This isn't, it may be a tree everyone recognizes because it's out of place in its location, but it's not a special tree in any other means. It's not long-lived. It's not early in its years. It just, it also happens to be right smack in the middle of our development. If we were to preserve this tree as the staff would have us do, then essentially we would lose almost a third of our lot would be gone that we could not use for development. And unlike Mr. Martin's assertion that this pin oak is the best advertising ever, I'm pretty sure every retail in the world would say that's not true. Because if that was true, then the building we just bought wouldn't be half empty if it was that great of a site. so the standards are what's reasonable and practical we did look at some different things pushing the building up close to the street once again it's not going to really do anything because we can't have our drive lanes in because where the trees located if we were to flip the building along our current access road then it reduces visibility and once again the whole back lot is completely blocked, making the economic viability of that lot diminished. So that's kind of where I wanted to talk about the trees. I will have Justin Phelps, who is with the developer, speak on it. But at the end of the day, this site is a B3. The B3 is for the motoring traffic. It's for arterial roads. A lot of them are B3. And while I appreciate that a lot of people recognize and like this tree, for us to utilize our property for a highway service development, we cannot find a practical way for us to save that tree and make this development work. There are lots of ways to save the tree, but there aren't a lot of ways for us to be able to save the tree and make our development work. And that's the key here, is make our development work. So that's where, so at this point, Justin, do you have anything you want to add on the trees before, have you any questions? You come up here. Yeah. Introduce yourself from the record. Justin Phelps, Hogan Real Estate. Thank you all for your time this afternoon. I think the only thing that I would like to add, what we've looked at in our experience, we've been, we've developed sites over 35 years in 22 different states and we've done some in urban settings we've done some in suburban settings and really all across the board and when we get into preserving certain trees and we've preserved a lot of trees over the years the root system in trying to work around trees will deteriorate in time as brandon talked about a little bit you know these these trees do drop a lot in uh of whether it's acorns and so a lot of how we develop a site is user driven i mean we'll tell you that from the very front end um and if you told a national user and i think i heard the word fast food this isn't a fast food user it's a qsr i think that's the restaurant okay yeah okay sorry and so it's a qsr and and quick service restaurant sorry uh and a lot of these have adapted to go into these drive-throughs which were not the case pre-COVID. So this is a very high quality coffee user that we have, and we're going by the design that they're driving. And at the end of the day, you know, retail uses, in our experience, in our 35 years, we're going by them. But kind of going back to the tree, sorry I segwayed there, is you know just trying to preserve this tree moving you to even though there are utilities at the site we're still gonna have to trench a lot. You talk about a hundred year tree potentially think about the root system how far that's gonna go on an acre this is 0.97 tract one okay you're gonna get into that root system and it's already at the very end of its lifecycle according to an arborist if you get into that now it's safety hazard you've got tree limbs falling you could have big branches fall on the building you could have it fall on a pedestrian you could have it fall on cars so it becomes actually a bigger safety issue as a result of trying to work around it in our opinion that's all i got thank you sir um so at this point um i think i've uh hit most of the points um as to the tree i'm here that if you guys have any questions related to the tree and do we have any questions for the applicant and the commission members yes mr nickel yes it does make sense to me with a limited site you are going to have issues with this tree and the placement of the tree right in the middle of the building is obviously a problem economically if mike this question is for justin um what is your estimated rental rate per square foot and how many square feet can you get without the tree have you i mean you've done that analysis obviously didn't work but i'm curious we can put a number on this tree yeah and and i think your your analysis um early on was was correct i mean um you know you're probably in the mid-20s of what you can do here and then you're working around a tree that um you know quite frankly an end user is not going to be comfortable with having on the side again we talked about dropping acorns dropping branches you know you could maybe go to the uh the south of it just a little bit but your ingress egress when you get into the stacking of a drive-through and again this is something that all the restaurants are requiring now so this isn't a fast food restaurant um again it's a quick service restaurant very recognizable brand that will will be very good use on the site so it's just economically not feasible for us to do furthermore it would make track to really unmarketable and to Brandon's point earlier you've got a blighted building that we proposed on taking down it's was built and I don't know however long it's all stick structure it's now it's about 90% vacant okay now there's some homeless issues that we're having to work through okay that are there there so we're gonna propose to take that down as quickly as possible and to to clean up the site so okay just to make a comment as we're looking at 26 the review of development design practically you're saying practically it's not possible to develop around this tree that's correct that's correct and then we're also saying that you know a rough estimation of the trees you know if I came up with a six cap and it's 4,200 square feet to $25 square foot let's just say 1.7 million dollars divided by two I mean we're looking at a $850,000 tree I don't think that's reasonable so that's my comment. Appreciate it. Thank you Mr. Nickel and I'd like to state for the record just to calm anyone's suspicions this is not a Starbucks so we would not be increasing traffic like a Starbucks would just to clarify the record but I think Justin makes a good point that if we move the board to move the building back it then reduces the size of track two significantly which then makes track to even less marketable for us. So if there's nothing else on the trees, we can move on. Oh, Mr. Micklin. Yeah, I had a couple of aspects on the trees. So you talk about it being in the middle of this lot, but it's only in the middle of this lot because you're subdividing what was a lot into two. and it seems like back to mr martin's point and this is where i guess my question is coming from is you said mr phelps that the design that basically this is a this is a national chain and they came in with a design and you're trying to accommodate that and so in the process and i think this is where it went awry i mean i'm it seems like in the process there was no consideration of a tree inventory or a tree protection plan because we're working with a national chain here and it's not really a question of how many square feet you can fit on the margins it's a question of does a template from a national chain fit in on this site without taking down the tree and it seems like that's not what our design standards or review of development design is based around. And so it seems hard to catch up with, like, it seems hard to catch up with a tree that's 50 to 100 years old. I would disagree, Mr. Gross, with that someone or a tree that is old is dying. They're not the same thing. So did you all, and in regards, so coming back to that point did you so in regards to the dialogue and your sort of argument with staff there did you all submit these without a tree inventory or in without a tree protection plan yeah mr. Mickler I will say we did not initially file a tree protection inventory not because we are avoiding it but because but because you hadn't considered it no that's not no that's not always what happened is our engineers from Louisville and they did not realize they had to file the tree inventory plan. It's not that we didn't consider filing a tree inventory plan. It was that it was an oversight on their part. And then once we got caught of the oversight. But it obviously didn't influence how you all were trying to arrange the site if you didn't even have it in your own hands. Well, most developers don't go and do a tree inventory plan just to do one. They do one because the city requires it. My clients were out on the site, and they did look at the trees, and they knew they were there. But to say that this is not, quote, a national tenant design, this is a typical highway service business design. I will show you. We apologize for the lighting. And we can also put this one up in a second. We can fix light. You can see here, here's the building quite across the screen. This is the exact same design, pretty much. The buildings are about 20 feet away from the service road. And they're essentially kind of put in the middle. So what we're doing is not, we've been told to do upon high this is what we need to do to market this property as a highway service business this is what the public expects and what tenants expect it to look like some beautiful examples there but so we fit within our design fits within the purpose of this zone and the corridor of of Richmond Road. So I guess I just take umbrage with some of the characterizations. With the characterizations of it being a chain template that you're trying to conform into a site. Yes, I would not call it a chain template. It is. It's a national template and it's all over the city. So I guess half our city is a change, which is fine, but that's just, that's how the market works. Thank you, Mr. Gross. Thank you. I'm not seeing anything. Thank you, Mr. Gross. Oh, that's just part one. I know. Okay. Yeah. So I didn't know, I do, Mr. Query is here, and like I said, we talked extensively about this tree and he has agreed with our age estimates and the potential longevity of the tree. So we have had discussions with him. All right. So at this point, I guess if we could throw the color render development plan up on the screen. Oh, okay. Maybe. This one? No, this one. Oh, okay. Alright, perfect. Okay. So, to clarify, once again, we're here at a service road. This here is an access easement, which is essentially part of the Lowe's parking lot. This is an existing access easement that we plan to retain for the property. We have, at the request of staff originally, we have an existing access entrance here. At the request of traffic engineering, we have moved that down to here, so it will be site with the O'Chile's property. Sanitary sewer, I mean, not sanitation, was concerned about the dumpsters, So we have now added an entrance here so that they can access the dumpsters. We have included pedestrian safeties. You can't see it here. We've got a bike rack at this location. What I want to talk about here is the service road. Service roads are essentially roads that were built to relieve pressure off the arterials. That's why we built those. That is so businesses like this can have access to those arterials but not actually access to the service road and not actually on the arterials. And I will, if I could put this up. Thank you. And if you see here the definition of service roads, it talks generally in a given block one or no access points are provided directly to the higher classification, which would be Richmond Road. but multiple access points are provided onto the adjacent properties so the whole point of the service road is to give people access so we're not bogging down the major thoroughfares through our through our roads can we put back the plan there has been some discussion about currently this location here we We did talk with Mr. Parker. Like I said, we did incorporate some of his suggestions. The last item we discussed with him was we said, well, we want to keep this. It was full access. We'll go ahead and make it a right in, right out. We think that there is about 200 cars a day that travel this road right here. So it's not a traveled road. It's a driveway that accesses Lowe's and accesses the Chili's. So we're not talking about a local road. We're talking about a parking lot road like you'd see in any other parking lot in the city. So we said, well, how about this? One alternative would be let's do a ride in, ride out only. That way there's no traffic going left. Anything comes out, but people can come in this way and still come into the site. The other was let's do a full access here so we have two full accesses. and either one of those were acceptable to Mr. Parker. So we've come before you now with this plan here because this is our preferred plan, and given that we were not able to get an agreement otherwise, we brought this plan before you. Now there have been discussions related to our plan, and the plan we have with this entrance, it's not an uncommon plan. I'm going to have some photos here. The first one is probably the worst case scenario that the city has. This is the Chick-fil-A located. I don't want to ruin the suspense, but it's going to be the Chick-fil-A over on Nicholsville Road. Thank you. Okay. Once again, it's hard to see, but as you can see... Okay. You see, this is Nicholsville Road, major thoroughfare, very busy. You pull in to the Kmart, you pull immediately into the Nicholsville Road, Chick-fil-A. Here's the drive-through. I believe that an amendment to this site was approved within the last 12 months. And this is going to have substantially more traffic in a day than we'll have in a week on our site. This is a development that is more recent. Now this one's closer to my home turf. My brother actually used to work at the bar at the Spring Hill Hotel that was torn down. But this is the old Spring Hill site. Right here once again, Harrisburg Road, major thoroughfare. Come in, pull right into the developments. Down here there's a right in, right out, it's hard to see right here. right into McDonald's. Major thoroughfare, this was approved in the last 10 years. We are still on Harrisburg Road. Once again, major thoroughfare. Could we move it north? Nope, that would be south. There you go. Keep moving. There we go. Well, I thought you'd been here long enough, Halda. Yeah, I'll be able to orient it. So once again, Nicholsville Road. Everyone, the DV8 kitchen. If you've not been, I recommend it, even though I don't own an interest in it. Great pastries. once again major thoroughfare pull right in pull right in pull right in pull right in this development has been done in the last 10 years this one is the Dunkin Donuts on South Broadway This one may be my favorite because you got a South Broadway major thoroughfare. This one you go on a public street and you turn left into it. Once again, three access points. This is essentially a mirror image of our design. Access point in the back, access point, access point. The only difference being is our access points are on service roads or in parking lots, not on the major thoroughfares, not on the public streets. So what we're asking, while we understand traffic engineering's concerns, and we truly do, but we think in this instance, we are not going to generate a substantial amount of traffic on our site. The service road is a road. It's not a thoroughfare. It's not a local. It's for people to get on that road to travel to the businesses that it serves. I don't know anyone who's going to jump from to get to Mount Tabor where you can jump on Nixle Road and get there faster no one's going to take that service road all the way down Richmond Road there's just not a lot of traffic and then the Lowe's only produces about a couple hundred we think a couple hundred vehicles a day in traffic so while we understand the concerns and we were willing to make changes to a right in right out we don't think that the traffic safety is the concern that the staff has presented and with that i'll i'm here to answer any questions on that particular point any questions for the applicants and the commission members yes mr davis thank you mr gross um i'm having a very hard time with the examples that you provided with what with the examples you provided of other right in right out because i drive by this site every single morning to take my child to school and every single morning that is a very tense situation right there on that service road because of the starbucks that is next door to the point where the starbucks traffic spills onto the service road and people sit in line on the service road when i saw that for the first time and i saw the access on the easement going to the lows my stomach turned upside down so i i and then the examples that you cited i i i just don't see it it it it did not convince me it pushed me the other way so so convince me okay well as to the starbucks i cannot recall justin you remember where the starbucks is in relation to our property It's to the north, but is it on the other side? It's on the same block as ours? Yeah, close to the center. Okay, yeah. I can't speak to how people get into that Starbucks location, but that traffic is further down, closer to the intersection of a public road. Of Old Todd's? Yes. No, the traffic comes towards your site in the mornings. And then you're telling me you're going to put a coffee house on your site. I just think from 7 a.m. to 10 a.m., it's going to be a very dangerous situation with the plan as it's currently drawn. I'm just I'm very disappointed in the plan. So I guess I'm confused how how the I guess how would the right in right out make it more dangerous? Can staff pull that aerial up? Pull that back up? Because the right would be going into the Lowe's parking lot out, and then right would be coming in. So if you were to use that entrance to exit, you would be going back into the Lowe's parking lot to use the access easements to get out on a different road. We would not be putting any more traffic onto the service road, which is why we limited to a right in, right out there. I disagree because the service road, people are coming off of Richmond Road. Either way, they're going too fast. You have a Krispy Kreme there. So, again, adding to the confusion and the traffic from 7 to 10 a.m. The fact that it is so close to the corner is a deal killer for me because I can just see standing traffic there all the time because of that Starbucks. And there's nothing you can do about that. but that just where that right in right out is on that service road from a practical standpoint looking at this site every day I don't think it's a very good idea I think mr. Phelps would like to speak to that hello again I think your points very valid and that's something that we actually looked at early on and so if you notice again we say coffee house coffee house is an ancillary part of what they do okay it's not starbucks starbucks is a client of ours we've done their work for seven years uh in the state of kentucky so we're very familiar with their process uh number one they're they're a single stack okay this is a double stack drive-through okay they would have to do it would the volume that they would have to do to to stack up onto the richmond road service road with a double stack would have to be it'd be a top store in country for for the volume okay so and a big part of what this user has gone to is the pickup mobile ordering as well so the amount of volume that they'd have to do for that and we've and we've got we'll be happy to share it with you all on how many stacks of cars that would have to go in that lane um would have to just be the most tremendous morning of their their uh of their existence so i don't that is something we did look at and we don't foresee i mean they don't foresee that where that where you see that that double drive-through line they don't foresee that stacking really beyond that at all and that's why they've gone to double drive through for that very reason that you just brought up hopefully that helps a little bit thank you i appreciate the effort. Thank you. Yes, Mr. Nick. I do have another question. On the, so you have to meet specific drive-through requirements. Do you meet the stacking requirement or not with this development plan? We do. I think we substantially meet it. We meet it with one, and we get double stacks. Okay. I think that's Justin's point is, it's like we, our Our user will likely never fill this, more or less back it up onto. And that's their property as well. But we fully meet, we actually probably double almost the amount that we need. I can't recall exactly where our sign is, but we do meet the requirements of stacking. Okay. I've been looking through the conditions on here. Which condition are we talking about with the. I believe this was a new condition. I don't. Okay. I think it was a new. I don't have anything on the back of my yellow sheet. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. That's a confusion. So this was not. Hold on. Hold on one second. Hold on one second. Mr. Gross. Mr. Martin, staff, half of us don't have anything. on the back of our yellow sheets. Can everybody pass your blank sheets over to me? Just pass those over. Remember I wrote it down. I would have had less to argue about. So we should be able to pull him up on Granicus as well. We just don't have him on physical in front of us. Thank you. it better it's are we discuss i mean we are discussing proposed front access adjacent lowe's property that's what we're doing on that's what we're discussing right now yes sir but this was a new um item today okay well i guess i got questions for staff okay um afterwards so if i may ask mr gross before yes sir um so you have a right in right out and then it goes down towards Lowe's and does it U-turn or how does it get back? No, Lowe's has access drives that I am not from that side of town so I'm not the best but it could be Cottle and Todd's Road where there are other exits onto public right-of-ways. So the idea would be we'd have right traffic come into our site but to leave our site you couldn't take a left on that access road. If you decided to go that way, you would go right through the Lowe's access drives, or you would take a left and then go through the parking lot and be able to exit one of the other entrances. Essentially, our back access point will have the same. People use that can either go left or right, depending on which way they decide to go. And I apologize for not bringing a photo of the entire development plan. Actually, I think we have one. Can we throw up the old development plan? I think it's shown on the new one okay well I think I think that let's see here is that the right way no no yeah do we have the new one up on the screen though We don't have it. We filed it on Tuesday. But it shows the whole site. I'm familiar with this area because I go to that Lowe's all the time. The service road goes to Todd's Road. The access easement goes into the Lowe's. And that Lowe's does have access to Todd's Road and also out the back to Codel. So there are several other access points to Todd's and to Richmond. Thank you. Thank you. And I think that, Jess, did you say six? So our user has a six on average stacking, and we're showing ten. So we have plenty of stacking in our lanes. Okay. Yeah, which is almost double. Okay. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Before we get real deeper, I'd like to have, if there's any citizens that would like to speak either for or against this particular agenda item, you can do so by walking up to the podium giving your name and address hello i'm greg doyle i'm on the tree board um so do you give your address as well your address what did you say your address your home address yes sir 435 marquee avenue thank you 40502 all right the pinocchio in question was determined to be healthy by professional arborist Dave Leonard and it is not dying Dave measured the significant tree to be 55.5 inches in diameter and stand over 90 feet tall we ask for a postponement so that the architect can redesign the proposed development plan to incorporate and save more existing trees including this healthy significant pin oak the shade from the large spreading canopy of this pin oak can help offset any heat island effect from impervious surface that has been added this tree is the largest tree in this section of Richmond Road and stands prominently as you travel past it The beneficial effects from one large tree, a mature, healthy tree, cannot be equally replaced by many small trees. Thank you for hearing my concerns. Thank you. Okay. Mr. Nickel, did you get your question answered? Yes. Okay. I just want to double back. Okay, applicant, do you want to step up? Is this your vote? Yeah. Any further comments? I guess the only thing I have to add is that while I appreciate the citizens' comments, at this point the only evidence that's been put in the record is the evidence of our arborist that says that the tree is at the end of its life cycle. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Staff, any further comments on the rebuttal? Mr. Chairman, members of the committee. I've got several items that I'd like to address. I'll start off with saying yes, it's possible that things were misremembered. We deal with a lot of issues and a lot of meetings and that sort of thing. What we don't misremember is that the plan as originally filed did not meet the requirements of Article 21 or Article 26, which is required in our jurisdiction for all developments. And frankly, that's the professional's duty to know that and to meet our requirements on behalf of his client. Secondly, I would like to address Mr. Nichols. Economics always wins versus trees. Green economics still is about 20% of all the economists in this country because it's hard to measure. You just heard testimony as to the heat effect. Well, there's stormwater benefits to trees. There are aesthetics. There's clean air. There's carbon that can be held. These things are hard to measure. Economists don't like things they can't measure. You can measure rental rates. and because of that conflict is why we've evolved regulations. It's why we have an Article 26. That's why we address our trees in our article because they're going to lose in a simple dollar versus tree argument and they have. And that leads us to another point I'd like to make. pin oaks are significant trees they're listed as a significant tree by species not just size in article 26 we list species though they are significant and as you heard the size makes it significant as well and when we talk about development and people develop all over. They say they protect trees. They talk about trenching. Well, we have what's called best management practices. Those aren't always practical. You know why? We're back to that money argument and that economics. You bore under that root zone, you protect that root zone. It costs you more money. You trench through it, that's cheap and easy. Jump on a backhoe, back, and off you go. So, again, trees, and there's nothing new about this development, about best management practices. As a professional, I've been talking about them for 20-plus years, trying to protect trees and work with trees. So the economics, again, never favor our trees, but there is an economic value to our trees and to our community. The existing building on the site that's almost vacant is older. It's not your typical B3 development. There's a lot of professional offices in that old building or there were. They are proposing a B3 development, and they're proposing a drive-through. And I can tell you that if you did a traffic study, there's a number that's ascribed to drive-thrus, and it's higher than if there was no drive-through. There's going to be more traffic related to that drive-through. That's a given. Now, that takes us to those access examples. I liked every one of them because every one of them, this body, those of you that were members, know that every development that's come through that was used as an example, staff, your planning staff, your traffic engineering staff worked with that applicant to make the access better. Why? Because there were access problems in all those locations, in every one of them. And you know why? It was typical development. It was corporate, typical development. My neighborhood, it's the same. We're neighbors. that CVS and that Springs Motel do you know what CVS that corporate developer citizen providing the service to Lexington said we can't go there without full access in Harrisburg Road right there basically in the intersection we said oh no no you'll get it right in right out and they acquiesced and you've been there if you've seen the site you've seen the flag bollards and things on Rosemont Garden and he's saying, well, because that's my neighborhood and my CVS, I would go in there and talk to them. They got to know me, and they would tell me stories. You won't believe what people do. They turn left over and force their way into that right in, right out, and then come in and complain. It's because it's difficult design for human behavior. It is. We all acknowledge that. And that is one of the concerns that traffic has with that right in right out that they're proposing, people are going to do this. You see it all the time. It's a conflict point, by the way. That concern is why you see a revised plan. And the reason you see a new condition is because that new plan was submitted on September 7th. And so we've been reviewing and working with other agencies and coming up with the conditions that you give with you today. But it's just a restatement to discuss that proposal, their reaction to that concern on that access. So again, and I will say every one, every one of those examples that you saw today on access, I will reiterate. Staff worked with those applicants to make bad situations better. And they are changing the development here. yes it's a legal b3 development but that does not lessen the access concerns and the traffic concerns that go along with that type of development and again i will just uh i will go back to that tree and it is a significant tree it is a beautiful healthy tree and what we're asking for is a chance to continue to work with this applicant to try to come up with a better design that takes that tree into account and their needs into account as well. But that's not what was presented to staff. That's not what's been presented to you today. It's we got to have this. Do you have any questions for staff? I'll be happy to answer them. Thank you, Mr. Martin. Thank you, Mr. Nickel. Yes, Mr. Martin, I just want to clarify this. as we're looking at article 26 it says maximize the preservation of tree stands and significant individual trees i'm getting conflicting information is this pin oak referenced as a significant individual tree is so it's referenced in the documents it is in our it is by definition of our ordinance it is a significant tree and it says they've identified it and that they've identified it in their inventory as a tree. They haven't labeled it as significant. That's okay. We all know that it is. How do we know that it is? Because it meets the requirement. It meets the definition in our ordinance. And can you give me that definition? 36 inches in circumference and or species. And it is both. So the the pin oak species is a significant tree? Yes, it's part of the oak species, numerous species. The Schumard, the pin oak, the bur oak. Because we talk a lot about bur oaks. There is a bur oak there. Unfortunately, it's not healthy. Now, what's interesting there would be, of course, what could we do to perhaps help it and make it healthier? But again, that's, yeah. And it looks like the objective of this is to protect and preserve the greatest number of trees as well as maximize the preservation of tree stand and significant individual trees. it's good that we have a staff that's willing to work with the applicant to try to find better solutions but on my end I my opinion would be that it's not practical to keep but we'll talk about that later thank you thank you Mr. Nichols so in this portion I'm gonna close this part of the meeting out and bring it back to the commission for further questions or concerns yes mr. Penn this this whole process is a concern to me and the reason it's a concern to me is because a lot of what we've seen in the last hour could and should have been worked out at the subdivision committee. The applicant chose not to do that. It's their right not to do that. But from us to sit here and try to design this on the fly and try to do the economic impact of it is not really what we're supposed to be doing. We're supposed to be looking at the ordinance. We're supposed to be looking at the regulations, and we're supposed to be making a decision. Not a decision what your building is going to look like, and not a necessary decision of where your drive aisle is going to be or not going to be. Our decision has to be with what we see in regard to our regulations, and that's what my concern is about this whole process, is that if we're not careful, what happens is any time an applicant gets a decision from the subdivision committee or from the staff they don't like, just come on to the Planning Commission and we'll fix it. That's not what we're here to do. We're trying to get the best results for our community as we can get and not the design you're building on the fly. So I have a real problem with that and I just want to state that for the commission. Thank you, Mr. Penn. Mr. Davis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Penn and I are in complete agreement. I was very surprised to see this today. I was very disappointed in the presentation. I'm very upset that it came this far and it wasn't. These issues weren't resolved in subdivision committee. They weren't resolved with staff. Despite all the he said, he said, I'm just very disappointed in today and I feel like we've wasted an hour of the people's time. Thank you, Mr. Davis. Anyone else? You can speak on it or the floor is open as well for a motion at some point. Mr. Mickler. I was just going to sort of second that. it seems like if you know balls were dropped on preparation or having having details blaming it on an outside Louisville engineering firm doesn't really seem like a good enough reason for us not to take staff's recommendation for a motion for postponement thank you yes mr bill i'd like to make a motion if yes sir everybody's finished talking i move for postponement uh plnm mjdp 21 32 michler jennings shelton property i'll second Okay, we have a motion and a second by Mr. Davis. Any further discussion to that motion? Sir, do you have a specific date in mind for that postponement? For one month, you asking for the timeline? Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you. For one month, please. Okay. Thank you. October 14th meeting. Okay. Okay. And we have a second by Mr. Davis. All in favor, please vote via Granicus. Before we vote and choose a date, could we ask staff and the applicant if they think that they can work it out in a month? I think that's up to them, but I don't think they have a... You know, we're the meekness, talkiest bunch you ever saw. We are perfectly willing to sit down with them and talk to us through some more. yes whether we don't know till we do that what we'll accomplish or do you need longer okay i got a thumbs up miss meyer okay thank you no thank you okay she felt yeah okay motion passes for the postponement for one month all right thank you Thank you. Thank you. Okay, thank you. You're fine, you didn't tell me that. Okay, next up, we have zoning items. And I do have a correction, staff on page four, under the meeting members that attended that meeting. Bill Wilson is no longer here, so I'm assuming you want Robin Mickler to be Bill Wilson, Bill Wilson because his name is on here as he attended that meeting and he doesn't look like Bill. He don't look nothing like Bill. You want to borrow my class? I mean, Bill's got a tan, Robin doesn't. Put them in spimpy dressers. We will make sure that that is corrected going. I noticed that so I was going to point that out and let you know. So next up, PLNMAR-21-12. Where are we? Yes, sir. There we go. This is a slightly different case, and I'll be presenting this today. There is also a variance request associated with this application. With typical zone change applications, or as you see with the MAR, the map amendment request, it is typically seen during your zoning public hearing. As this is a request to modify a neighborhood design overlay zone or an ND1 overlay zone, it is on a slightly different trajectory. In this case, it is heard during this meeting. It has been publicized as a public hearing and has been notified as such. As I stated, there is a variance request associated with this, And that is largely because of the notification requirements and the applicant meeting them at that time. This applicant is seeking to modify the ND1 overlay zone for the Montclair neighborhood, neighborhood design character overlay, specifically associating with the rear yard setback. In this case, this neighborhood imposed a neighborhood overlay, which is a neighborhood-driven application process that applies certain design standards to modification of structures and future or new development. The applicant is under the single-family residential R1C zone with that neighborhood design overlay zone. That means that they are still required to meet the R1C zone requirements with the added restrictions of the specific character design overlays. In this case, the rear yard setback is set in a slightly different way in which they are measuring not from the rear yard forward, which you typically see within most of our zones, but from the front building plane back. That is a a different way of doing it to guarantee that the buildings are not intruding into specific lot size requirements and making sure that they're a little bit more compact in nature. However, with every ND1 overlay zone, we do have certain characteristics that we need to meet and review. Before we get into that, I'll just orient you into the site. uh this nd1 was established uh in i apologize uh this nd1 was established in 2011 it was first established in 2010 and then was amended one time in 2011. it includes various different properties along cooper drive scoville road montclair drive castle road summit drive eldemere uh road and then Tates Creek Road located here. As this area is so diverse, there are different characteristics based on the streets. And that is one of the elements of the ND1 overlay that the neighborhood called out in their establishment of the design criteria. Jumping into the specific zoning and location of the property. Yes, we are located off of Cooper Drive at the corner of Scoville Road and Montclair Drive, this white property right here. We do have the Arboretum down in this area and then the University property here. I'm jumping in closer to the property. You can see it is completely zoned R1C or single family detached residential. This is typically a medium-sized single family detached residential zone. It is surrounded by the agricultural urban and associated with the university at this location. Here we get a better idea of just the land use that has developed over time. The single family detached homes in the neighborhood as well as just the university. Here we have the sports complex, the rugby fields, a couple of other associated fields. do not park here during football games. You will be towed. Getting into the site specific, what we are seeing in this top photo is the property itself. Currently, the property faces Montclair Drive. It is address 633 Montclair Drive. It is a long structure that extends approximately 72 feet in length. It was originally constructed in 1947. At one point in time, this breezeway that connects the house to the garage was actually just a breezeway. It was enclosed as time went on and individuals modified this property. And that kind of constitutes this as one large single family structure. As we look down here, we're looking into the property from the corner of Scoville and Montclair. So seeing that this is not the frontage within this application, the applicant is seeking to reorient the structure from Montclair Drive to Scoville Road. That presents some other characteristics on the site that could be problematic for them. However, we then can look at the site or the structure next door to the subject property. that is a two-story structure, and then across the street, which is a newly constructed two, two and a half story structure. Getting a little bit more into the neighborhood itself, here we're looking down Scoville, yes, down Scoville Road towards Cooper Drive, the neighboring property, and then these are just some examples of the properties that are located along Scoville Road. You can see that the vast majority of properties along Scoville Road is a blend of one and a half to two-story structures. As you shift over to Montclair Drive, we actually see a lower built construction type, a blend of one and a half-story to one-story structures. This is looking down Montclair towards Tate's Creek with some examples of the neighboring structures. the Montclair neighborhood design standards included a total of 11 standards focused on building materials roof lines landscaping requirements window and door openings the window and door openings are typically a focus on fenestration front building features garages and accessory structures all of these elements the applicant is meeting within their request lot widths building heights and building setbacks as you can see within the building setbacks here the applicant is seeking to focus their development along Scoville Road which has a variable building setback from their frontage of 35 to 45 feet along this section there is a platted building line of 40 feet the applicant is meeting that in their their proposed development The one aspect that is a little more bolded and in blue in this location is that rear yard setback. It states that the building should have a maximum building dimension of the principal structure from the front building plane, which is 55 feet, and excludes projections, your back porches, front porches, things of that nature. So it allows for that building plane to be set and extended it back. The last is off-street parking. It does allow for what the APKIN is proposing at this location. Within their application, they are required to submit a site plan. All too often, when you hear me up here talking about map amendment requests, Mr. Martin would come up and then discuss a development plan. In this case, there is no development plan. It is a somewhat of a blend of the responsibilities in which we are largely just talking about what is happening on this individual property not in the zoned area which extends into the right of way so within there this is a updated development or site plan that shows what they are trying to build with the application, as you can see with the building setback, in reality, the biggest portion of our discussion item today is this section right here. The portion of the front property located right here, extending back that goes to approximately 52 feet. So that would be meeting the requirements of the ND1. The applicant is seeking to add this back portion for a bedroom at this location. I will be coming back to the discussion of the four foot side yard for this property as well. In review of any amendment to the requirements of an ND1, the applicant is, the findings that are required for this ND1 amendment are outlined within your staff report and are very similar to some of the findings that would be required for a variance request. This is similar yet different because it is specifically associated with the overlay zone. In those cases, the granting of the modification or the removal or amendment of the ND1 overlay restrictions must not adversely affect the public health, safety, or welfare, and will not alter the essential character of the overlay district, will not cause a hazard or a nuisance to the public, and will not allow for unreasonable circumvention of the requirements of the ND1 overlay restrictions in making the findings. This planning commission shall find that the requested modification, removal, or the amendment arises from special circumstances that do not generally apply to the land in the same ND1 overlay district. The strict application of the provisions of the restriction would not deprive the applicant of reasonable use of the land or would create an unnecessary hardship to the applicant and that the circumstances are the result of actions of that are taken by the applicant subsequent to the adoption of the ND1 restrictions from which relief is sought and then finally the general intent and preservation goals of the ND1 overlay district are being met in this case there are four general goals or the intent for this specific ND1 overlay districts. In most cases, or in all cases, these are differing kind of goals and intents. They're supposed to be neighborhood oriented. For the Montclair Neighborhood Association, they had four. Preserve the existing neighborhood land use, which is currently entirely single family residential. The applicant is not seeking to amend that. Encourage new construction and additions that are compatible with the predominant massing height and architectural character of the neighborhood, but recognize the differences along those individual streets. Utilize site planning standards reflective of existing patterns of yards, setbacks, and garages. This is particularly of importance for the conversation that we are having today. And then encourage community interaction and safety for pedestrian and bicyclists. I stated that the importance of the utilize the planning standards reflective of the existing patterns of yard setbacks and garages, largely because if we go back to the subject property's frontage photo, the current structure itself is not meeting the requirements of the ND1 overlay zone. It is 72 feet in length, which extends beyond what is currently allowed along the site. Furthermore, within the rear yard of this subject property it is non-conforming with the current zoning ordinance the current zoning ordinance for the r1c zone is 10 feet for a rear yard setback in this case the current rear yard setback is approximately eight feet in distance so with staff reviewing much of the requirements of this we did look at the the letter of justification submitted by the applicant and found that the applicant is seeking to meet many of the characteristics of the ND1 overlay zone with their proposed project, keeping the subject property to a acceptable height, and then matching some of the frontage spacing that is associated with the rest of the neighborhood. The applicant is proposing a frontage of 34.8 feet. The average within the area is generally between 35 and 40 feet, with some buildings exceeding that 40-foot front wall plain. The applicant is also seeking to make sure that they are meeting the height requirements, as well as some of the other requirements within the neighborhood area. The applicant is also seeking to provide a certain amount of development that is of matching of the character, not only of what is established, but what has been built relatively recently and are seeking to move forward with this project. In review of their application, staff did find that the requested modification of the ND1 overlay zone for design standard 10 would not adversely affect the public health, safety or welfare, nor will it alter the character of the neighborhood as the applicant is seeking to work within that established character. the proposed addition or modification is similar to the character height massing to the other principal structures along scoville road and the construction of the new structure at this location will allow for the continuity of appearance in the neighborhood and will not negatively affect the character of the neighborhood additionally the applicant discuss much of their special characteristics or circumstances that have resulted in this application this is really focused on the narrowing or the tapering of the lot itself and we can jump back to show you some of that narrowing or tapering in this view you can see that the lot starts at a larger distance the fact that the lot is pushed back off of scoville road at 40 feet is not abnormal what is abnormal at this location is the 15-foot corner lot setback which does restrict their ability to construct in this location it would constrict them to a very thin structure the applicant is seeking to maximize what they can build on this site and in many cases match what has been done elsewhere in the neighborhood. So jumping back forward, the applicant does cite those special circumstances, specifically the side street side yard along Montclair Drive, indicating that strict adherence to design standards would be an unfair burden and unnecessary hardship for the applicant. And then modifying the design standards by 14 feet will not prevent the successful achievement of the Montclair neighborhood's general intent and preservation goals as the applicant is seeking to match much of the style that is uh involved in this area as well as meeting the fact that it is remaining single family in nature and uh it is utilizing the site planning standards that are reflective of some of the setbacks that are currently established on that property uh and finally this does not impact or uh alter the interaction and safety for pedestrian and bicyclists uh staff does recognize that under the provisions of article 6-7 of the zoning ordinance the use restriction is proposed to be modified to the following language uh i will note that this was incorrect during the uh zoning uh committee hearing it is correct in what you're seeing here and in your staff reports um and staff found that the modification of the rear yard setback would be appropriate given the existing character of the immediate vicinity so regarding this portion of staff's presentation i'd be happy to answer any questions at this time any questions for staff Yeah, I have a few questions. Yes, sir. The first question is just like a technical question here. You said that one of your considerations for your recommendations was that the length of the current house, which included the garage that had later been connected, was 72 feet. but is that not the width of the current house since it faces Montclair? Yes, sir, it is. That is correct. So is the current house in compliance on the property lot with the ND1 standards? No, it is not. Is the width also limited? Oh, I'm sorry. Go right ahead. Is the width of the house limited? The width of the house is not limited on site. It was actually called out as being abnormal within the neighborhood review of the area. So it's an abnormal width, but in fact the depth is not 72 feet. Correct. The width of the property is 72 feet. The issue at hand with the zoning ordinance is that it does not meet the requirements of the R1C zone in the rear yard setback. So there is an issue there, yes. But when we're looking at built space on the ground, the staff viewed the application of the side yard or the rear yard which the current property is utilizing the side yard as their rear yard as being congruent with what the applicant is presenting. So does staff not consider that the appearance of a front of a house differs significantly from the side of a house in appearance to the neighborhood? Staff does I recognize that and in many ways that is why the fenestration and the door placement within the ND1 characteristics as outlined within their intent are quite important. And the applicant will be meeting the fenestration and door placements for both the front and the side of the structure facing Scoville or Montclair Drive. because i did take a walk on that street and look at some of the new constructions that have gone up and noticed a significant difference in fenestration on the front of the new structures versus the sides of the new structures yes sir and in this case the applicant has indicated that they would be meeting many of those required fenestration for this is staff asking that they meet the requirement of fenestration for the front of a structure along montclair since that's currently the front of a structure staff has not asked for that however the planning commission would be able to apply those those requirements and or apply a certain percentage of fenestration along the side street side yard should they approve this application okay and then um a did staff look at what a strict interpretation would mean as far as total square footage for a two-story house on this lot staff looked at the strict application and this does play into part of staff's review for the variance request um as in determining the appropriate minutes of a step down between the neighboring structure and the side street side yard however in this case the applicant with the variance request and the requirement or restriction that staff is proposing it does limit the applicant's ability to maximize their square footage on the second floor to maximize their square footage on the second floor yes sir um i didn't fully understand why so could you just maybe explain uh within uh if the applicant were to build a full two-story structure yeah they would be able to maximize that second story and i'm tipping my hand just a bit for our next section but staff is requiring with the request for the variance that the applicant go no higher than one and a half story which would limit the square footage that is allowable on that second floor reducing that not only to allow for some step down in intensity from Sroville Road which is a more intense constructed environment to Montclair which is a typically one to one and a half story i understand what you're saying now if the applicant asked for no variance did you all calculate what the square footage of the house would be if the applicant were to match both the first floor and the second floor without that rear portion of the property which was approximately approximately 15 feet by 15 feet or i'm sorry 17 feet by 15 feet there we go uh it would approximately be uh 3 600 square feet without the addition onto the back i got something closer to that um i when i took a walk i made note of some of the new construction in the area i noted that in the application that they submitted that we reviewed in committee they compared most of these figures to the house that they constructed across the street which is on a wider lot i noted also that there are a number of lots with tapering profiles in this neighborhood and so it seems like the justification of the tapering could be a concern to some neighborhood residents as far as setting precedents for other applications that would come before us um a lot of the construction recent construction seemed to be within the size that would be allowable on this lot and a lot of the house profiles seemed or are when i when i looked at the stats online around the 30 feet that the 29 feet would be allowed according to the application Some recent sales figures on Scoville included in 2017 two of these new construction houses, which were around 3,000 square feet. One sold for 935 and one sold for 690. A friend of mine also tore down their house, which they had similar justifications for on Castle, and they sold their house that they built. for 724 and that was a 2,542 square foot house. That was at 1227 Castle. The other two was at 1262 and 1242 Scoville. The current developer, I understand, is attempting to operate or is operating in a higher price point market. The house they built and sold across the street was for $1.4 million. did is staff i want to understand the figures that staff considered when agreeing that it was not economically viable or it would be too onerous economically to restrict the house size sir we do not look at the economic valuation of any house or uh structure nor do we tell an individual how they can sell a certain property at a certain price point or below that that i i'm maybe just out of line with what we review here so that's a learning so i'll just drop that question sorry about that um and uh the i did i did want to then ask in terms of the review it did ask it in your justification it does look at it would be um impractical i guess to receive good use out of it is that how you review it as opposed to in economic figures so the applicant indicated that the foundation of the subject property has shifted making it unhabitable we we go based off the applicant's information provided to us as well as their uh conversation points uh during some of our pre-application meetings. The applicant has indicated that the cost to rehab the foundation as well as the structure is not economically viable for them and it would be far more economically viable to tear down the structure no matter what is decided here today. From that standpoint staff looks at the application and how they are trying to do their development and tries to apply it to the best possible ability to meet the intent of the md1 overlay zone so we take the information that is provided to us rather than looking at what is the cost or what is the ability to do a foundation repair for a certain property does staff and this is this is actually just a question i'm not sure does staff consider so i i not so i mean when you look at the house currently the drainage and the gutters basically point straight into the foundation they do not drain away from the house so it's not a total surprise that they had issues with the foundation does staff i mean what responsibility is maintenance of the owner as far as regards to their application gutter systems are actually quite interesting they were not required in kentucky by code until approximately 20 years to cycle water away from foundations uh and this property being constructed in 1947 and all likelihood did not have gutters until a more recent construction phase uh so we don't quite know uh the the maintenance application on this site furthermore there would not be a requirement for them to update their gutter system unless there's a major repair being done and now they're needing to update to the code essentially staff agrees that because of the condition of the house and that a building that is 29 feet in width and approximately 3 000 plus square footage would be too small to be a good use of the house or no the staff takes the information that is given to staff from the applicant and reviews that information. Staff cannot make a determination as to whether a what is considered a tiny house of 700 square feet or a house that meets the requirements of this area of 3,000 to 4,000 feet is a more appropriate use at this location. Staff reviews the information that is provided by the applicant and makes a justification or a staff report based off of their justification in this case staff saw that the applicant's justification substantially meets the intent of the ND1 overlay zone with the portion that is extending in the rear being limited to one small portion of the site as well as the fact that the established width of the structure if they were to switch the entryway the length of the structure was currently larger than what is being proposed. Okay, then my last question here. What would the fenestration requirements normally be for like a front of the house versus side of the house? So I wish I had zoomed in on some of these for you. So minimum front window door openings, the minimum of 10 for the wall plane on each elevation of new construction shall be windows doors and or vented openings however no opening shall be required if building code requires fire ratings in this case the applicant is going to be precluded precluded from having windows along the northern structure wall because it is within that need for a fire rating wall um um well i think the the wall that i'm i mean the side that i'm concerned about is the current frontage on montclair and in this case it would be that 10 minimum now that does not mean you cannot increase that uh required fenestration with the uh with this application citing a specific finding or reasoning uh which i'm sure both uh miss jones as well as myself or other staff members would be able to help formulate that language. Thank you, Hal. All right, thank you. Any further questions? All right, applicant. Actually, we've got one more. Oh, we've got to do the variance. I'm sorry. Yes, sir. So previously, staff did present a postponement recommendation with regard to the variance request. In this case, the applicant has asked for a dimensional variance for the side yard setback from eight feet within the R1C zone to four feet within the single family R1C zone. And this specifically gets into this portion of the property located here. Within any side street side or side yard setback, the requirement at this location is able to be averaged. This was staff's major concern when looking at this property previously and how it might work on site. Staff sat down with the applicant and ran through the calculation for this property, specifically how much of this area plus how much of this area get into that side yard average when doing that average it essentially comes out to a six foot averaged area so typically uh you would maybe think that we would say oh the applicant is uh requesting a variance down to six feet however within uh the zoning ordinance as well as our historic process we always vary to the lowest common dimension which is at this corner located right here within a supplemental set of information which you should have both in in grant you should have in granicus uh the applicant discusses further uh the need for the variants and what they are trying to accomplish with the variants uh specifically uh they are trying to match some of the front building wall plane that is seen elsewhere within the area specifically scoville road uh staff did review and and this goes back to some of the questions about tapering on site. Staff did review some of the lot layouts and how things are oriented on site. As you can see many of the tapering sites that are on side street side yards are actually tapering wider towards the back across the street. Tapers wider to the back or those properties are fronting on a specific roadway in which they are tapering to the sides. We have a tapering to the side here, tapering to the back. This is relatively rectangular. Many of those smaller properties that are relatively rectangular don't currently meet the zoning ordinance for the lot size within the R1C. I will say that the R1C was established in 1969 after the overall comprehensive rezoning of the city and county. What we are talking about is this area right here the distance between the subject property and the neighbor's property staff was greatly concerned with some of the elements of this however noticing that the applicant was trying to do a better job about meeting some of the current design standards along Scoville Road or the currently established front building plane along Scoville Road staff is with the review of the applicant's justification as well as looking at how some of the Scoville Road properties are oriented the length of that front building wall plane which averages for Scoville Road between 35 and 40 feet staff is recommending approval of this variance uh suggesting indicating that the variance should not have a significant impact on the character of the vicinity and the tapering property and the larger setbacks along the two frontage is somewhat of a unique circumstance within this lot along the Montclair neighborhood overlay zone allowing the variance the side yard will allow for the construction of the single family residence that is similar to those established along Scoville Road and maintain the existing front and side street side yard setbacks preserving the character of the neighborhood and that the variance request does not represent an attempt to circumvent the provisions of the zoning ordinance additionally the proposed structure and review will eliminate a non-conformity or a non-conforming structure on the subject property now within this staff does recognize that there is a need for a lesser impact on the neighboring property as well as a step down within the character from Scoville Road to Montclair Road staff is recommending not only that the construction will be in accordance with the submitting application materials and site plan but that the proposed structure shall be limited to one and a half stories in height to reduce the impact on the neighboring structure and transition from the character of Scoville Road to the Montclair Drive now with a one and a half story structure the applicant did reach out to staff to ask exactly what that is typically a two-story structure you're able to either maximize or exceed the floor area that is on the first floor on the second floor in a one and a half story structure you're asking for the roof lines to come down the use of dormers or extensions can be done within a one and a half story structure that will allow for some more use of that space but it gets into some of the architectural standards that are associated with this and building inspection would review this at the time of any permit submission. Finally all necessary permits and approval and or approval shall be obtained from the division of building inspection again specifically focused on that restriction of one and a half stories or as well as meeting all of the fire rating walls and codes for that area. So on this I went fairly quickly because we did talk about some of the elements of this but staff is recommending approval on the variance request as well. Okay, any questions for staff? Mr. Michler. Was the applicant in agreement with the staff? I guess we'll hear from them on the... You can hear from them, but I did check with the applicant and they seem agreeable to this restriction. Okay, thank you. Not seeing anyone else. Applicant? I'll give my PowerPoint a second here to get pulled up. Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, Planning Commission members, members of the staff. Hal, thank you very much for explaining our situation here today. My name is John Strom and I represent the applicant Anderson Holmes for NLLC. is the applicant and the owner of the property located at 633 Montclair Drive with me today is Dennis Anderson of Anderson homes for rent Andrew Hopewell who is the contracted buyer for the home here and Joey Svek who is the principal of building the bluegrass who's planning to build the new home on the property for successful today there we go sorry about that we're here today to talk about this house this This is the house located at 633 Montclair Drive. It's a non-conforming, out-of-character home that stretches 72 feet along Montclair Drive and only has an 8-foot rear yard. It shares few, if any, architectural features with the surrounding neighborhood and it could not be built to this way under the current ND1 overlay for the Montclair neighborhood. It's actually an old Sears and Roebuck style house that was bought out of a catalog. Essentially this house doesn't fit. recently the home suffered some foundation damage causing us a dilemma. Should we repair this non-conforming structure or replace it with something better that fits the neighborhood? And what Hal said today was mostly right. The damage to the house would cause some pretty significant investment, but it can be repaired. It became immediately apparent to us though that there is a better option and that would be to sell this home to someone with experience building homes in the Montclair neighborhood. That's where Andrew Hopewell and Building the Bluegrass come in. Building the Bluegrass has built and remodeled several attractive homes in the Montclair neighborhood, and they are comfortable building homes that speak the same architectural vocabulary and add character to this neighborhood. The parties have reached an agreement under which Mr. Hopewell and Building the Bluegrass would buy the home, but it's contingent on the buyer receiving the necessary approvals to permit the construction of a comparable home at 633 Montclair Drive. So that brings us here today. As you've seen in the justifications and recommendations, and you've heard from Mr. Bailey, the lot at 633 has several unique features that make building a modern livable home challenging to say the least. First and foremost, we are faced with a lot that tapers as it runs away from Scoville Road. Scoville Road is the one running north-south there and Montclair is running east to west. I'm not sure if that's actually accurate, but we're going to call it north-south and east-west on this image. along Scoville Road the lot starts at 59 feet 3 inches wide but quickly tapers back all the way to 46 and a half feet to compare this with a lot across the street it starts at wider at 63 feet and expands all the way out to 77.5 square feet or feet in the back even a lot next door has a bigger usable area because it's squared off and more rectangular next this is a corner lot and and it features building setback lines on two sides, the 40-foot setback line along Scoville Road and the 15-foot side yard setback line if that home is flipped to Scoville Road along Montcare Drive. Finally, as we know, the neighborhood has enacted a set of ND1 overlay requirements that limit homes to only 55 feet deep from the front plane. With these unique challenges, the lot really doesn't leave much room for building a modern and livable home of a size and with features that correspond with the rest of the neighborhood. In a neighborhood like Montclair, as Mr. Bailey showed earlier, certain amenities and features are necessary to make the home livable and attractive. The pictures here are from houses that are close to 633 Montclair, including the White House located in the upper corner of that, which is directly across the street. 633 just doesn't fit with these houses. So as we looked at ways to try and find a better option for this lot, we looked at designing a long and narrow home in the lot, but that caused a lot of headaches for the architect as well. Trying to lay out standard size rooms and still provide something like a first floor master bedroom or primary bedroom while still incorporating comparable finishes and architectural details was a very big challenge. so now that we've discussed the unique challengers that hinder the building of a livable modern home on this lot i want to talk about the steps that the builder and the architect have taken since we've started this process and how this plan has changed a little bit it's a little hard to see i apologize for that but i believe you have this in your packets the builder and the architect have worked to stay as close to the guidelines as they possibly can while minimizing the impact of the new structure on the neighboring surrounding neighborhood if you'll notice the home is pivoted from facing montclair and presenting a lengthy front profile to facing scobo road and presenting an elevation that's much more in line with the surrounding neighborhood in the houses close by in fact if you take the 11 houses that are closest to this house and measure their front widths you find out they're averaging about just over 35 feet wide this plan calls for one that's only 34 feet eight inches wide some of those houses are actually pushing or exceeding 40 feet next the architect and the builder have oriented the homes that the longest edge is now away from the neighboring property owner i'm going to use this opportunity to talk about our variance application as well while the variance application asked for a four foot side yard on a 69 foot house it's a little more nuanced than that as hal noted in our justification when you use a side yard averaging you end up with about a six foot wide side yard instead of a four foot where the closest part of this house is four feet from the property boundary which is that front corner right there from that point it expands backwards as the lot runs backwards getting further away from the property line as you go until you go back to where the covered porch starts and you end up with a lot more space about almost 16 feet so the profile of the house from the neighbor's view is not 69 feet it's actually 52 feet or so before opening up into the porch and as we've mentioned earlier the variance is necessary because of the way this lot tapers it's almost made us build a tapering house and to do a tapering house and get still to get standard sized bedrooms standard sized amenities you have to play with some dimensions in that regard The parties started this design process by assuming they had to build a two-story house to maximize it. When they're looking at an odd shaped lot that requires you to build a long and skinny house, they thought they were going to need a two-story house in order to maximize their interior space, so they had the most flexibility. What they've discovered since then is that a one and a half story house is a better fit, both for the lot and the surrounding neighborhood. neighborhood please note this is still a work in progress plan but it does show the architectural features and designs they'd like to accomplish in building this home we greatly appreciate the assistance of Mr. Bailey and the planning staff throughout this entire process we've met on multiple occasions to work through design and restriction challenges and we agree that we'd agree with the recommendations of the planning staff and their assessment of our requests when to the nd1 overlay modification we believe this modification does not adversely affect health safety or welfare in the neighborhood it does not alter the character of the existing neighborhood but actually contributes by providing a house that better fits in the community itself this lot presents a unique and special circumstance that's not present elsewhere in this neighborhood and modifying this nd1 overlay for the lot will not hinder the neighborhood's intent or goals as they've stated them we also agree with the staff on the four foot side yard variance we agree that that the unique shape of the lot again creates a unique circumstance here and that the variance will allow the applicant to remove a non-conforming structure and construct a residential or a single single family residence that's similar to those that have been established along the scoville road streetscape we are also willing to agree to the condition that the home be limited to a story and a half in this case we basically have two options we can repair the existing non-conforming house and move residents back in or we can replace it with something better we can replace it with a home that speaks the same architectural vocabulary as its neighbors that is built using comparable materials as are allowed in the nd1 overlay and that blends into the streetscape along scoville road and we can replace it with a home that contributes to the unique character of the montclair neighborhood but to replace it with something better we need your help we need you to approve the applications request for the nd1 overlay modification of 14 feet and a side yard variance of four feet i'm available to answer any questions you may have as are mr speck mr hopewell and mr anderson thank you for your consideration this afternoon thank you as any commission members have any questions for the applicant mr nickel um currently is this a vacant house it is vacant at the moment yes and it's vacant because the foundation problems correct so this is a vacant an underutilized piece of property yes it is and you've got a buyer that wants to move in to a new house that's being built there is that correct that's correct okay i'm bringing that up just because we understand that affordability is a problem in our community and even though this house doesn't look affordable what happens in the macro side of things is when you increase supply or excuse me when you increase supply the price goes down so it adds to affordability which is a positive thing all right all right not seeing any oh oh sorry i'm sorry i was looking to my left mr mickler so one of my concerns that i was speaking with mr bailey about um you kind of address in this uh visual here and that's that montclair side that's now the front of the house um when i like i said when i was looking at some of the new constructions the side of the house had very few windows i was concerned with a long street frontage along a street that and with the initial diagrams you all had with restroom bedroom not many public spaces along that wall that there wouldn't be much fenestration this diagram indicates that you all are thinking otherwise i actually had to look up the word fenestration when you use it the first time i'll be honest that one that went through me for a bit i was just mimicking staff on that but yes we uh we do meet the 10 requirement if and that is the plan that they're working on right now along uh montclair there um i do believe they they like windows so and i can let the app or the builder speak to that if you'd like have any more direct questions for that um uh no that's not not No more direct questions to that right now. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Not seeing any other questions. Thank you, applicant. Thank you. All right, so at this time, I do know that we have some citizens that would like to speak on this particular application. You can do so by coming up to the podium, stating your name and address, and we would put a timer for each three minutes each. We have two people. You just out of here quickly. you been here for a while you have to no doubt Dean Baskin 1278 Scoville Road so I'm the house that's basically right directly behind that one and you know I get that they're trying to build a new house on there needs to be you know it needs to be redone I appreciate the fact that you came through the neighborhood and actually looked at this it's kind of my first experience doing any of this planning stuff so it's kind of interesting to have to have to walk through all this. But my biggest problem with it is, you know, when I look, go out my back door, there's, you know, you're taking a small one, one story house, you're going to make it a now a story and a half and you make it longer. And you're moving it from what was maybe 13 and a half feet away from my house down to now it's coming five and a half feet closer. So that's, you know, it's, I'm going to come back in my backyard and look over and there's just nothing but house over there and then we've got a garage at the end of that so there's garage gonna be at the end of that fence too so if you look at the diagram the only place it's not going to be covered with some sort of building is this small area where the driveway is so you know I'm not in favor of you know I'm objecting out I don't I don't think it's a good good use of that plan I mean I appreciate the everything that they've done on all that but you know just to me from my perspective I don't think that's going to be a good result for me I'm gonna look at my property and people can come back well what is that you know it's so a house I can reach over the fence and knock on the window or so you know I think along that same property line too there's you know five or six trees are all gonna have to come down so so right now I come out in the back and you know I've got a nice tree line fence but all those all those trees are gonna have to come out as well. I think maybe there's one that would be able to be able to say maybe that the driveway is coming through close to that, too. So that one's going to come out, too. So, you know, that's really my biggest concern with that. You know, and one of the questions I was having I was asking them is like, can't you guys just go move the house farther towards the street? And evidently there's a 15 foot variance that they would have to they would do have to get for that side. I'm like, well, why can't you get the variance on that side as opposed to my side. Just get the house a little bit more buffer and I suggest also just maybe taking a driveway and putting the driveway in between the two houses that would kind of meet with the specifications. The rest of the street, they all have driveways in between the two houses and so forth. So, you know, not a planning guy, never been involved with this kind of stuff. So I just want to, you know, voice my objections to it and I'd like to hear what you guys come up with here. Getting out of here early for you guys. Thank you. My name is Charles Yeomans. I live at 809 Cooper Drive. so so this house built in 1949 is a prefab house a Gunnison what have you it is incorrect to say that it is not it is sort of out of character for the neighborhood in fact there are several of those there have been more in the neighborhood you can find them all the way through Chevy Chase now there aren't as many as there used to be because well they're prefab houses they weren't intended to last forever but are there they've been there and and there's some general agreement among the neighborhood that um the presence of such houses is is you know contributes to the architectural character of the neighborhood now the this house has been owned uh in one empty for or another for the last 20 some years uh and i guess used as a rental property um it's been allowed to degenerate and now they want to, you know, tear it down and replace it with a new house that, you know, to make money, which I don't entirely object to. But to say that they emphasize that this house will be in keeping with the architectural vocabulary of the new houses that have been built, unfortunately those houses the new houses the two new houses aren't at all themselves in keeping with the architectural character of the existing neighborhood there's general agreement among the neighborhood association of which i'm on the board that that those houses you know totally stand out as as inappropriate or sort of you know four square imitations and as such i don't know constitute a sort of architectural blockbusting. And neither of those houses was ND1 compliant in the course of construction until the Neighborhood Association squawked. The one house was missing, failed to meet the fenestration requirement even, and had to be retrofitted. Another house didn't meet the driveway with requirements and they had to change that in the course of construction we assume that this house will similarly require constant attention to see that it conforms to the nd1 guidelines as it's built so yeah so i guess you know the staff recommends passing which is okay but i'm you know i sort of disagree with the staff's conclusions that you know what is it that that the existing house doesn't doesn't complement the surrounding area and that the um and a new house would speak the architectural language um of the existing neighborhood because uh because if it's going to match the the new construction then it won't and that's it thank you okay on on the rebuttal stage applicant do you have anything additional you want wanted to say not much mr chairman um i did want to note that we have uh that mr svek has met with mr baskin on the property we've listened to his concerns and again we are agreeing to limit the house to one and a half stories in an effort to try to limit the impact on his lot but again the way that lot tapers has really limited what we're able to do on it for mr charles again we understand the presence of other sears and roebuck houses maybe in that neighborhood but the montclair nd1 spends a lot of time talking about the individual individuality of certain streets and if you look at the photos that have been shown down scoville the house there just doesn't fit with what's over there so we'd like the opportunity to go ahead and put something better on that lot thank you uh staff do you have anything additional okay hal shaking his head no all right let me bring it back to the commission i think mr mickler has a hand raised i i did have one more question from the applicant and that was when i was looking through these documents on the revision from what we reviewed in the zoning commission the it looked like did the house get like a a couple feet wider from the original application so i'm gonna i'm gonna let mr speck talk about that because he's helped design this home okay hello joey savek with building the bluegrass so the initial application that we filed we were trying to taper uh do a step back on both sides of the house uh we did uh submit a new revised site plan that showed a consistent uh straight wall along mr baskin's property to help square up the rooms it was just too difficult so the original one was like 32 foot wide at front and then now it's it was just it was right at 33 feet 33 feet and we made it 34 feet 9 inches 34 feet 9 inches or 8 34 feet 8 inches yes and that was um that was because of some elimination of tapering or what because this is part i mean this was part of the neighbor's concern there is how close it was so that's why i'm asking about those one foot eight inches that sort of yeah grew since it was first applied so on the montclair side we have kept the tapering because the lot tapers very hard on mr baskin's side we were trying to taper as well the room size were getting funny we couldn't we were unable to average at the forefoot so the thing with averaging is you have an eight foot setback you're allowed to average up to 50 of that which means we can go up to four feet to the property line we were using those setbacks to average that and we just couldn't quite get there if we came to you and asked for a six foot setback we could still average 50 all the way up to three feet to the property line so to us we were able to square up the rooms make it a straight wall reduce it to a story and a half so we do have windows in a dormer so it's not just a big flat fire fire rated wall and by doing that we're able to help with architectural elements we're able to make the house more sellable and adaptable to to uses today So we thought it was a good trade-off versus building, getting a six-foot side yard and going all the way to three feet to his property line. Does that make sense? I mean, I get the 50% setback. So in terms of just the original width of the... The original width was 33 feet is what we submitted in our application. we had sent how another revised plan that shows the house at 34 feet 8 inches the revised plan is asking for a so the revised plan is that the house is a little bit wider at the on the scovilles at the 40 foot setback yes the house is a little bit wider than the initial application we were that that increased the first floor slightly in square footage but we have significantly you're trying to compensate from the one it's going to one and a half story or that's part of it but we also that's a very small part of it because we actually reduced the house by almost 600 square feet so in total we're making the house smaller the primary reason was to square up the rooms and make them more usable on the first floor uh we yeah and you met with mr baskin on site showed the site this this plan last night or yesterday correct we we reviewed the current plan that's before you we reviewed the current elevations that are before you okay thank you thank you all right thank you bring me back to the commission for further questions concerns or a motion i can figure out how to turn this on yeah i got it it's red now this question i guess is for mr charles you mentioned that you were a member of the neighborhood association and as i recall your neighborhood association was very active in the development of the nd1 overlay for your area have they taken a position on this request for for change Although, yeah, I don't, although, yeah, I'm not here to speak on behalf of the Neighborhood Association. That said, the Association Board decided basically not to take any particular, any real position on this application. Other than to, you know, ask for, ask for the documents for, you know, the application, that stuff. That's the first I've seen of any elevation. We had asked repeatedly for elevation drawings to see what we might be getting, and they were never forthcoming, maybe because they hadn't been done yet or because they were reacting to the staff's suggestion, which I like, of restricting it to a story and a half. I think that's actually a good idea, and I hadn't heard about that until I saw the notes today. One thing is I'm not really excited with not averaging the eight feet. I mean, yeah, averaging the eight feet. But one question for staff, and this is in regard to Mr. Baskin, who I think is probably impacted the most. He was talking about his visibility with regard to this house being built further back than his property. I'm assuming he would have equal right to develop his property further back along this adjoining property. Yeah, we would have to look at what his current depth of property is. He would still be held to the same ND1 restrictions. In terms of building closer to Montclair Drive, that is a platted building line. That platted building line actually gives a little bit more flexibility than what the zoning ordinance actually covers within the R1C zone. However, to modify that platted building line in any way, they would have to do a replatting of the subject property to change the location of that building line. And I believe that they would have a rough go at trying to justify that under the current land subdivision regulations, as well as within the zoning ordinance. Okay. Thank you. Okay, Mr. Penn. If you're all ready, I'm ready to make a motion, but I want to make sure we're ready. Okay, then I move for approval of PLN MAR 2112 as recommended by staff. Okay, we got a motion, got a second by Mr. Nickel. Any further discussion to that motion? Okay, please vote via Granicus. Okay, motion passes. I also move for approval of the variance request as presented by staff. Okay, we got a motion for the variance request. Do we have a second? Second. Seconded by Mr. Beall. Any further discussion to that motion? Okay, please vote via Granicus as well. Okay, motion passes. Thank you. Okay, commission items. Mr. Duncan, you're up and I'm going to pass the gavel over to Mr. Penn. Hold on, hold on. Where's the chairman going? He's leaving. I've got it. He's got another meeting. That's good. Mr. Penn? Yes, sir? We do have a commission item for you. It's an amendment to your adopted meeting and filing schedule. Staff is recommending that you cancel your November 18th, 2021 zoning items public hearing and convert the November 11th, 2021 subdivision and development items public meeting to a public hearing to include zoning items. To include zoning items? We are basically asking you to knock out your October zoning and then throw it in along with your November subdivision items. All right. That's what this says here, and that's what I'm reading. All right, sir. We hear that. Sir, if we could give you one second. Mr. Chair, the reason we're doing that is because we have an idea of what the agenda is going to be, and we believe we can manage both in one meeting. but also council has moved their work session for the week of November 15th to 1 o'clock on Thursday the 18th, followed by a committee of the whole at 430. So they're essentially knocking us out of meeting, certainly in this room and being on TV. So we just think if we can do everything two weeks earlier, we can accommodate everything we need. Okay, so to change the meeting, we need a motion. Chair, entertain a motion to change the median filing schedule. Mr. Mulvin? I'll make that motion to change based on staff's recommendation. Second. I need a second. Thank you. Okay, I didn't, wasn't looking. All right, all in favor, vote on the grant. Anything else, Mr. Duncan? Mr. Chair, while we're talking about the schedule, I want to remind you all that we have a work session next week, Thursday, September 16th, and we will be in the third floor, Phoenix building. And I believe the only item, but certainly the main item that you all will be interested in, is a presentation from the staff who has been leading the Sustainable Growth Task Force. that is not the planning staff, so there'll be different staff there for you that day, but we have been very much working with that, and so they are looking to make you all aware of what that task force has been doing over the past year. So that will be next Thursday, the 16th at 1.30 in the third floor of the Phoenix Building. And then speaking of the calendar, not on your next meeting dates, but on the official adopted schedule, we do have a second work session for the month of September because we have five Thursdays. So there will be a work session on Thursday, September 30th at 1.30, same place, where we'll pick up our ordinary internal business that we talk about at work sessions. Okay, sir. That's just informational items now, right? Yes, sir. No action required. Just wanted to make you all aware. Is that all the staff has for today? Yes, sir. We do have one staff item. No action required. We've neglected to list it for you, but we did distribute a 50% infrastructure report on the Denton Farms development. That's required so that Platts can go forward. And we give that to you for informational purposes. No action is ever required by this body. It's just so that you know that the infrastructure and those items that you approved through your preliminary subdivision and development plan process are being met. Okay. So that was, you should have that. It's very brief. Yeah, I read that. All right. There's no other items. We'll stand adjourned. Thank you. Thank you.