We live on their shadows, searching in the night Streetlights, people, living just to find a place I'm hiding somewhere in the night Don't stop believing Hold on to that feeling Streetlight deeper Don't stop believing I'm on the streetlights people Don't stop believing I'm on the streetlights people Streetlight River My old man's backhand used to land hard on the side of my head. I just learned to stay out of his way. There have been street fights, blue lights, long nights with the world sitting on my chest. It just showed me how much I could take. Hard times, bad luck Sometimes life sucks That's alright, I'm okay It ain't nothing but another day But only God knows where I'd be If you ever stop loving me The bank man, the boss man, the law man All trying to get their hands on me And I ain't even done a damn thing wrong. I've been waylaid, freight train, short-chained by bigger and fatter men. And all I got to say is bring it on. Hard rain, rough roads, so my life goes. That's all right, I'm okay. It ain't nothing but another day. And only God knows where I be. If you ever stop loving me I need you Gotta have you Thank you. The End Thank you. The End Thank you. Thank you. ¶¶ How's that? That's good. Welcome everybody to the November Board of Adjustment meeting this afternoon. A couple of announcements. I see you've already been told, unless you're speaking today in the audience, please keep your mask on. They've asked us to do that. We are maintaining social distance up here. we're not wearing masks all the time up here because we ask questions we have to speak we do certain things up here so we're not wearing masks we're not discriminating against you in the audience it's just that we have more to do throughout the hearings than than you do so thank you for wearing your mask the second announcement is i shot a 74 yesterday and feel pretty good about it. Please, please. I think it matched my lowest score for the year, so I'm pretty happy about it. On a more serious note, this week is, Thursday of this week is Veterans Day. Veterans Day celebrates the end of World War I. The armistice was signed on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, ending that particular Holocaust back in the early part of the last century, about 100 years ago. So we celebrate Veterans Day by acknowledging the veterans who served, all veterans who served in all wars. You might be interested to know that in World War I, U.S. casualties were about 117,000, 118,000. And for a population of about 100 million, you can do the math. People ask me, what do you say when people thank you for your service? And I do what my mother told me to do when I was very young. I say thank you. So to all the veterans, thank you for your service. Now, let's get busy. We've got an agenda that we're going to go through in summary fashion. I'll call the agenda first to make sure that all the applicants are present, and we'll find out if there is any opposition to the application. If there is, we'll hear you at the end of the docket. If there's no opposition, we'll go through a second time and we'll hear your case in a summary fashion. Are you going to approve the minutes first? Are you going to approve the minutes first? Yes, I'm sorry. Thank you for reminding me. We do have some minutes to approve. from last month. Did everybody on the board receive the minutes? I did. And if so, I'll entertain a motion to approve. Mr. Chair, I recommend approval. Thank you, Mr. Clark. Do we have a second? Mr. Needham seconds. All in favor, please indicate your vote electronically. Okay. Minutes are approved unanimously. Thank you for your vote. Okay. Now I'm going to sound the agenda. We'll go through the cases one by one, find out if everybody's here that wants to be here, and we'll take those cases in a summary fashion for which there's no opposition. The first case has been withdrawn. That's Hill's Properties. Is that correct? The first case on the agenda, Hill's Properties has withdrawn their application. Thank you. Withdrawn their application. The next matter is PLNBOA 21-60. New Lexington Clinic PSC, is the applicant present? Yes. Okay. Is there anybody in opposition? I'm sorry, this one was recommended for disapproval by the staff, and so we will hear you at the end because there is opposition to it. The next is PLNBOA 21-64, LFUC Housing Authority, is the applicant present? I am. I'd like to request a postponement if I could. A postponement. Is there anybody in opposition to this application, PLNBOA 21-64, Housing Authority? Anyone in the audience in opposition? Two of you in opposition. So, you are requesting a postponement because of what? We are- You can take your mask off when you're at the podium so we can see your face. Thank you. It's me. It's me. I'm Tony Barrett. Please identify yourself further. Yes, with Barrett Partners on behalf of the Housing Authority. Congratulations on your golf score. Are you a veteran? Thank you for your service. But we're continuing to work with staff on resolving their concerns that they pointed out in their staff report and also working some other changes on the plan. So we're a little green right now to be moving forward. We've got some more work to do. Okay. I saw some hands in the audience who are objecting to the application. Do you object to the postponement, or are you in agreement? Okay, postponement. It's fine. We just want to be notified before you guys begin. I presume that if we postpone it, it will be on the docket for next month. yes that's yes okay so we will we will uh uh i'll take a motion from the board chair i move to uh postpone uh plnboa 21-64 to next month's thank you mr needham is there a second thank you miss carter motion made and seconded please electronically register your vote Motion carries. Matter is postponed until the December meeting, which is December 13th. Thank you. Okay, see you then. Please note that I abstained. I did not notice that. Thank you. Ms. Whitman abstains. They got it electronically. Thank you. Thank you. is the applicant present i notice an applicant is present is there anybody in opposition to this application i do see a hand up we'll hear you at the end of the docket the next item is pln boa 21 day 61 board of trustees of first united methodist church is the applicant present i see a couple of hands is there anybody in opposition to the application of the board of trustees of first united methodist church application for conditional use i see no hands so we will hear you in summary fashion the next matter is pln boa 21-62 mom mom's lavender is the applicant present you're present and is anybody in opposition to the application of mom mom's lavender i see one hand in opposition. So we will hear you at the end of the summary docket. The last matter is PLNBOA 21-63 Chennault Interest Limited. Good afternoon Mr. Glover. Good morning Mr. Rose. Dan Rose on behalf of Chennault Interest and actually the applicant includes Foosbox Development which is my client, which is a developer of has the area development rise for Popeye's restaurants. We're requesting postponement. We've been in touch with the staff about making some changes that they've suggested to get their approval for the plan, and we're in the process of doing that. We'd like to postpone until next month. Is there anybody in the audience in opposition to the application of Chenault Interests Limited? I see several hands in the audience. Are you requesting a 30-day postponement? Yes, sir. you all in the audience object to a 30-day postponement of this matter. The explanation, Mr. Rose, was you're trying to work out some details with staff? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Some redesign elements on the plan. Okay. I see a couple of hands up. Are you in opposition to the postponement? Come up to the podium, if you would, and tell us why you're in opposition to the postponement. I see two people with hands up, so each of you come up. And tell us who you are, please. John Blahar, live at 2121 Nicholasville Road, Unit 709. I would be opposed to the postponement because the conditional use by its very nature, someone way back when decided, well, fast food restaurants should be a conditional use. So there must be something that is inherently wrong or undesirable with the conditional use. So as such, we'd like it to be, rather than postponed, just denied at this time so that we won't have to continue coming back. That's my opinion. Thank you. And there was another hand that was in opposition to the postponement. Come up and tell us why you're opposed to the postponement. Hello, I'm D.G. Linton Gridley, and I live at 2121 Nicholasville Road, adjacent to the property in question. And to have a Popeye's there or any drive-thru restaurant would diminish our quality of life in general, but in particular, the traffic problem that it would create would just be unsustainable. I mean, the whole traffic pattern there would have to be reconfigured. It's already a problem, Zandale, and that access road, people would be cutting through our parking lot. And I just can't imagine the traffic that would occur if that restaurant went in there, if any restaurant went in there. Thank you. Both of you have given reasons for objecting to the substance of the matter, but not necessarily for the postponement of the matter to be heard next month. Anybody on the board wish to make a statement or express their concerns or ask any questions of anybody before we take a vote? I would just say normally if staff has recommended postponement, Typically, we go with a postponement for a month, but that's just what we normally do, kind of to get them better prepared and come up with something that's more workable with staff. It's just my comments. And it may be that the postponement will allow the matter to be adjusted so that some or most of the opposition could be resolved. And I understand that one of you, or maybe both of you, stated that you just don't want this drive-through restaurant in the neighborhood. That's a substantive matter that we can hear, but as far as a postponement is concerned, I think Mr. Needham is correct that we generally go with the staff's recommendation. The staff has recommended a postponement because they see the need for working out some of the details on the design as well. So I'm inclined to agree with the postponement, but we will entertain a motion. Mr. Chair, I agree that we need to give the applicant and the staff an opportunity to work out details, and then we can look at the entire application in its revised state. And so I move to grant the postponement until next month. Thank you, Mr. Clark. Anybody like to second that motion? I'll second. Thank you, Ms. Carter. Motion has been made and seconded to postpone until next month's meeting. All in favor register your vote electronically. Motion carries. Matter is postponed until December 13th. Thank you very much. All right, that means the first matter on our summary docket is our summary agenda is 21. I'm sorry, BLNBOA 21-61 Board of Trustees of the First United Methodist Church. we'll allow the room to clear and then we'll ask you to come up to the podium. Give us a minute. Okay, tell us your name, please. Chad Foster. I'm the campus pastor for Andover Campus, First and the Methodist Church. Thank you very much. The staff has recommended approval of this application. Does anybody on the board have questions? Mr. of Pastor Musserman. And I have no questions. I'll entertain a motion. I move for approval of PLN BOA 21-61 Board of Trustees of First United Methodist Church's request for a conditional use to expand the existing place of religious assembly in order to construct an open-air pavilion in an AR zone on property located at 3801 Polo Club Boulevard based on the staff's recommendations and subject to the it's two listed conditions. Thank you, Ms. Carter. Is there a second? I second the motion. Thank you, Ms. Whitman. Motion has been made and seconded. All in favor, please register your vote. Motion carries unanimously. Good luck with your project. Thank you. Thus endeth this summary docket. The first matter, substantive matter, is New Lexington Clinic applicant present. Please come up. And tell us your name, please. Jordan West on behalf of the client. I have one question. Why do you want to raise the height another eight inches? Well, they wanted the sign to be as large as possible and to be similar in design to the competitor Baptist Health right across the street there, a little bit farther down the road, though. It seems to me that instead of asking for a variance, you could raise the grade of this sign, eight inches, and that would take care of the problem. Did anybody think about that? No. Okay. If that's a possibility, we can look at that. Is this a custom-made sign? Yes. Who makes it? We do. Instant signs. Okay. Anybody have any questions for Mr. Weck? But are you saying the sign's already made? No. Oh, okay. The footer is in place, the concrete footer. so in terms of raising the grade, that would change some things in terms of the design in our masonry. It seems like to me, Mr. West, that just to raise the name a little bit, say five inches, and then reduce the size of the logo by three inches. You'd have your eight inches right there, and I can't see. It would be a major difference in the sign. By the way, I like the sign, so it's like the logo. But I think those minor changes would not affect your visibility at all. If I can increase the design more, what would be allowed, in terms of the board, what would pass if we go up and enlarge the sign more if the eight inches is not significant? Well, we typically don't grant variances unless there's a reason why. And so it's not so much a matter of degree, it's a matter of yes or no, up or down. And the ordinances are there for a reason, to guarantee uniformity and not allow creeping violations to subsume the rule. And so we tend to enforce the ordinances strictly unless there's a good reason. and I haven't heard a good reason yet. It seems like there are other things that you could do, and we're not in the design business up here. We're just in the business of hearing and allowing it. So I don't know how much the visibility would be decreased by keeping the size of the design within the ordinance requirements. And so my inclination is to go along with staff and not approve this. but anybody else have any questions? So you're saying it would not get approved either if we make the sign larger to guarantee the visibility to be seen from the road? That's something you'd have to take up with staff. Okay. I would suggest that if you are inclined to change the design, then what you might do is ask that we postpone this matter until you can come up with a different or better solution rather than having us just deny your application on its face. And is there a limit to raising the grade? Staff, tell us what you think about that. I don't think that there's any limit other than just the practical limit of raising the grade. As far as changing your variance request, I don't know that staff would support a greater variance without further justification. But we could certainly review that. But you're also getting close to maxing out on the area allowable for the size of the sign. So I would keep that in mind. But I don't know if that, did that answer all the questions? Well, and procedurally, did you have a question? Oh, yeah, for the applicant. So when you say make a bigger sign, I guess I'm lost on the train of thought. So you mean, I mean, 10 foot is your limit there. Right, for the sign itself, yes. So when you say make a bigger sign, are you talking about wider? It would be taller. Well, we're limited to the square footage, so it would be taller in terms of the masonry. We'd probably increase it there if we can. Oh, so you're saying make the base smaller but the sign larger? The base larger and keep the sign the same because we're limited to the square footage as well. So we would enlarge the base and keep the sign the same. If that's... Right. If we were to apply for another variance. Could we? A larger variance? That's the part I think the board is not. Right. I think. Have to argue, have more justification. Right. I think if you wanted a greater variance, that would be a greater departure from what's allowed. You would have to certainly have a stronger justification than you had this time. And additionally, requesting a larger variance, even if we continued the hearing from today, you would have to re-notify. So you'd have to go through that process of sending out letters again. Okay. Yep. Understood. So, yeah, so we can go ahead and hear the application today, and if it's approved, it's approved. If it's denied, then they would have to submit a different application for a different signed configuration, and that would not, the denial today would not prohibit them from doing that, or would it? It depends on the design that you, it depends on what you come up with next time. Right, it would depend on whether or not it was for a different, they couldn't ask for the exact same variance, but I suppose if it were for a different variance, they could ask for that. Yeah. Yeah. So my inclination is to allow the board to tell you on this application what they think and take a vote on it today. And if it passes, good for you. If it doesn't, you've got other options. Okay. Any other questions for the applicant? Any other questions, I'll entertain a motion. I move for disapproval of PLNBOA 21-60 New Lexington Clinic PLC's request for a variance to increase the allowable height of a freestanding sign from 10 foot to 10 foot 8 inches in a professional office zone on property located at 1221 South Broadway, based on the staff's recommendations. Thank you, Ms. Carter. Is there a second? A second. Thank you, Mr. Clark. Motion is made and seconded. Indicate your vote electronically. Motion is carried. The matter is disapproved. Disapproved. So if you come up with something else, talk to staff about it. All right. Thank you. All right. Thank you. The next matter is PLN BOA 21-59, the church in Lexington. Mr. Musselman. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Come forward and tell us your name, please. I got my notes wrong. My name is Doug Johnson. Johnson? Johnson, yeah. Mr. Johnson, welcome. Tell us about this. Tell us about your application. Well, we'd like to. We have about four to five acres, and we'd like to build a property beginning with about 60 by 60 to move our congregation in there and have a kind of home for the congregation. Right now we're meeting in homes. And so that would be, you can't really tell in the drawing, but there's a hill would be at the top of the hill toward the Manowar side, away from Higbee Mill side. Then eventually we'd like to look at building a larger building to allow the congregation to grow and have rooms for children's services and various different things, youth groups. That would be about, I can't remember the size I put on there. 60 times 60. I can't remember the size. I have it right here. I'm drawing a blank. So we're asking for two buildings. The one would be 6,000 square feet. and we would of course put in the proper parking and so on. Okay. And again, as you can't see here, the property below is in a flood zone where the stream is, but then there's quite an uphill, and we're looking to build up at the top out of that zone. is the top is that the uh 1220 both of them actually are up and if you look at the drawing there's a house on there that is also i would you know i'm guessing up at least 20 40 feet from higby mill level maybe 20 feet so that house we would even be going up a little higher than where the house is marked in the garage about where the garage level is. It's a little rectangle with a diamond in it or a triangle. So that's where the building would be. It's at man-of-war level pretty much. So it slopes away from man-of-war? Yes. Yeah, it goes down. Mr. Johnson, have a seat. We have somebody in opposition. for your application and we'll hear from them and then we'll hear back again from you. Please come up and thank you. And tell us your name please. Yes, I'm Michelle Haar. I'm on Higby Woods Court and I'm the president of the Higby Mill Neighborhood Association. Our main concern with any additional construction, especially of a large building and parking lot is flooding. Higbee Mill floods regularly in front of this property. The people who live across the street and the people who live on the same side of the street experience much more frequent and severe flooding than has been true in years past. So any parking lot runoff, any building runoff is going to severely affect the creek. This is the South Elkhorn Creek. and the bridges that are currently on this property to go over Higby Mill are also sometimes covered by water when the creek floods. So it's not clear to us how you can have a property that's a commercial property or a church type of property when you've got a bridge that's flooded into your area. The second question we have is about the construction of a new bridge. It's my understanding that one of the conditions from staff is something to do with building a new bridge that is commercial grade. and maybe I misunderstand but if that's the case then when that happens the bridge would have to the culverts under the bridge in other words the structure of the bridge would have to be big enough for the amount of water that flows through there we've already this area has already been burned once by a church that promised to build a structure that was compatible with the brick structure of the original church, they built a fellowship hall. And it turned out to be a metal barn. And so we're a little bit leery of churches coming in and saying, we're going to build something that the neighborhood will be very proud of, and then it turns out to be this metal thing that doesn't match anything. And there are houses across the street, a house almost directly across the street just sold for, I believe, $550,000, $575,000. you're going to put what across the street from that? So that's a concern as well. So mainly though, we are worried about flooding and it's being worse with a parking lot here instead of just the ground that's there now. Do you know, Ms. Hart, if any part of this property is in the flood plain? Yes, there's a significant part of it, the part that he alluded to being down at the front of the property on Higby Mill. Yes, it's in the floodplain. But they don't propose to build in that area? No, they're proposing to build a parking lot that will come downhill into that area. Yeah, okay. And the church itself will come, you know, all of that water is going to run right down into the creek. Okay, any questions from the board to Ms. Hart? We'll have a seat, Ms. Hart, and we'll hear from somebody else that wishes to speak about this matter. Hello, I'm Greg Mason, and I'm with the St. Andrew Orthodox Church. So welcome to the neighborhood. We're right next door. And as you've talked about the elevation changes and all that, there's a lot of stipulations in the recommendation. And as long as those get adhered to, there was nothing in the drawing that we got that mentioned there's going to be a new bridge put in. But obviously, if it's going to be a box color, it's not going to be a bridge. But there was also some other questions we had. On that chart that you all sent in the mail, We got a chart mailed where the buildings are going to be, the proposals. And so in one corner, it says it's going to be an 80 by 100 building. And then in the drawing, it says it's going to be 6,400 square feet. And then I think I just heard 6,000. So that's going to change your retention requirements tremendously. And also probably the number of parking spaces, which is also going to change retention. And we have had three. Our church was built in 87. So we've been through the Board of Adjustment. And we've had three 100-year floods down there where you can't possibly get through the road. So that's certainly a valid, there has to be adequate retention, no question about it. So getting more clarification on the current building, that's going to be the one that's 3,600 feet. That's what you're going to be building like soon or when you can. That's what this application is for. Is it just for the one? Is it both? Okay. But their phase is to build the 3,600-square-foot building first. Am I reading that correctly? Okay. So the second building, the larger one, if you're going to approve it, as far as setbacks, right now there's a lot of screening, live vegetation between our properties, and so we would like to see that maintained if it has to come out for construction or something to be replaced. So we would like to have something, some assurances that we would have good screening because we have it now. And we just don't want to see a takeaway. I understand. Any questions for Mr. Mason while he's up here? Thank you, sir. Mr. Johnson, come back up and would you like to respond to any of those comments, questions? Yeah, I'm not a FEMA or flooding expert, but I know that we would be limited to their requirements. So whatever we would do would have to meet the FEMA requirements federally and then locally, whatever requirements would be needed there we'd also plan to meet those that's part of our you know going forward where we plan to build is above the flood zone and we would definitely so greg i think keep that tree line there that's part of our desire too it offers you privacy it would also offer us the privacy that we desire and there's plenty of room there for this building to be offset leaving the tree line both along man of war and along between our two properties so your intent is to leave that tree line there definitely yeah there's actually a protected tree along here i don't know the name of it but it's got branches that stretch out 50 feet and they kind of wave along the ground like this so that's that's in the lower part of the property but we definitely want to do that maintain that it's kind of a natural wall okay I'm not an expert on the water moving down but whatever engineers would recommend we do to you know take care of the flooding that would be our plan also we're aware that that we would need to build a bridge even to get the trucks over to begin to build. There's a need for a new bridge. The bridge that's there is sturdy, but I don't know if a large truck would want to go over it. I can't think of, I didn't take all the notes, but is there? Yes, I apologize for that. I had sent a few emails back and forth, and maybe the numbers got, and Autumn was awesome. I don't know if she's here, but thank you so much. She was helping me get stuff updated, and the 6,000 feet is really what we're going for. We had a last-minute change. We were going to build a bigger one first, and we realized that's not the smartest way to go. Go small, meet our needs now, and as we grow down the road, we would look at doing something larger. So we wanted to add that in here at this point. Again, there's enough room for parking. We're right now a congregation of 50. That's with children, maybe 50 to 60. We have about 30 of those are children. Well, children, maybe about 70. So we're not large. And we just want something right now to house our meetings, to come together. Do you have a, has the, have either of the buildings been designed yet? No, we, we, this is our first step. We, we are looking at possible, what do you call it, Greg? The prefab, huh? kind of prefab building where they come in big sections, the wall comes in, you know, they go up quicker, they're a little more cost effective. That's as far as we've got. We realize that probably at this point we want to take this step before we even begin to invest in architects and engineers and this kind of thing. There was some concern expressed in the speakers in opposition about whether the design of your church will fit within the character of the neighborhood. Is that a concern for you also? No, we have no intention to build aluminum, you know, a metal structure. It would have a, I believe it's more of the Southwest, kind of like the St. Andrews. again stucco kind of look or brick but we have not got that ironed out you know that that's kind of down the road getting the architects involved we haven't done that part yet but we again i mean if you see the property we're on man the building is would be 60 70 feet from man of war and 300 feet from higby mill and there's a tree line blocking the view you can barely see the house that's there now only when the leaves are have fallen you can see it so that the trees there now are also a wall along the stream that would block the view of whatever building we put up okay thank you any questions for mr johnson Let me let the board ask questions and we'll get to you later. I don't have a question for Mr. Johnson, but I would like to ask the staff, the concerns about flooding and the bridge, would that be taken care of in condition number six? that would be part of condition number two most likely all permits and approvals from the divisions of planning building inspection and engineering as well as necessary state and federal agencies and then also condition number five related to stormwater management so essentially as as the church went through the permitting process they would be required to to meet the standards of FEMA and of all the city agencies involved to ensure that the access was appropriate and that storm water was managed. I meant number five, not six. Sorry. Any other questions from the board? A quick question, and just as a clarification, this is not going to be used as a residence in any capacity that was living on site? No. Okay. Thanks. Okay. Okay. Any other questions from the board? We had some questions, Mr. Johnson, from somebody else who spoke. Come up and go to the microphone, ask your question, and we'll see if we can answer it. Just stand by, Mr. Johnson. Thank you. And then my question was, the reason I asked about the bridge and the expansion of the bridge was because in the picture that we were sent, it says the proposed traffic flow is in and out, and it says the existing driveway is to be expanded for two-way traffic. So if that's the case, is the existing bridge adequate? and again as a box culvert would it be adequate to again prevent the additional flooding that may happen. I appreciate your concerns about water and flooding in the area and I think the board does too. The requirement of the application is that they present a stormwater management plan uh that management plan has to be approved by the the appropriate authorities that govern that and and we don't get into we as a board don't get into the details of that that's something that other people who have a greater expertise than we do as a board get into that but there is a provision for a storm water management plan and that uh and that requirement is that they meet all of the requirements and conditions that are that are required of to protect the uh the property and and property downstream to the extent that they're required to do so if that includes building a bridge with a large enough culvert for 100 year storm 500 year storm i'm not sure what the requirements are but that's not up to us as a board to do that that's the details we don't we we don't particularly get into. But there is a provision in there, and there's not a provision in every application for a new construction of a church. There's not necessarily a provision for stormwater management plan in every application. So if there is an acknowledgement, well, the fact that there is a stormwater management plan requirement in this application means that there are concerns about controlling the water on the property. So I think that should give you some comfort in knowing that that's a requirement on this particular piece of property. Okay, thank you. Okay, thank you. And thank you, Autumn. Any further questions before we vote on this application? Anybody from the board? If not, I'll entertain a motion from the board. Mr. Chair, I move to approve PLN BOA 21-59, the church in Lexington's request for a conditional use for a place of religious assembly in order to construct a church in an agricultural urban single family residential zone on property located at 1220 and 1250 Higby Mill Road, Hill Road based on the staff's recommendations and subject to their six conditions. Thank you, Mr. Needham. Is there a second? I second the motion. Thank you, Ms. Whitman. Motion has been made and seconded. Please register your vote electronically. Motion carries. Good luck with your project. The next matter is PLNBOA 21-62, Mom Mom's Lavender, application for conditional use. Please come up and tell us your name. Here is PLNBOA 21-62, Mom Mom's Lavender Application for Conditional Use. Please come up and tell us your name. Excuse me. Yes, my name is Philip Santiago. And let's see, where do I start? My wife passed away on August 23rd. She always wanted a lavender farm, and I live in Maryland. My son lives in Kentucky, and I'm now selling my house and moving to Kentucky. We're going to buy a property. Matter of fact, we've already bought the property, and we're going to put a lavender farm on it. And the property is zoned, is it AR1? Which means that it's suitable for a farm, and it's suitable to have a building on it. And I'm putting a large pole barn up. It's going to be 40 by 80. because I need it to put the equipment in and dry the lavender and all the stuff you've got to do in a lavender farm. The interesting thing about lavender is the plants take two to three years to mature. So my lavender farm is going to make no money the first year and pretty much none the second. I need a stream of income. And the store, even if it's just a small thing and we're doing business just on the weekend, we'll provide that. So as I understand it, the only thing that I'm doing that's not in the zone already is the store and that's what the conditional use is for. So, any questions? Any questions for Mr. Santiago? I have a comment or an observation, maybe a question as well. I think the issue or one of the issues that may come up is that a strict reading of the ordinance would require you to have an active farm before you have a gift shop on that farm. I'll have the plants in in May. You what? I'll have the plants in in May. The store won't open until after the plants are in. Okay. Well, that answers my question or my observation or comment, because that's the way I'm reading the ordinance, is that you can't have a farm gift shop without a farm. I seriously doubt I can get the inside of the building built out that fast anyway. It just takes time. Understood. I think maybe the comment I would have, too, It seems like we had something similar about a winery that wanted to have a shop or a venue that was built first and then the vines would come second. I'm not sure. Do you remember that on maybe Paris? I do remember that. I think most of the opposition to that application came from the neighbors, and I'm not sure. I think the opposition was they didn't want a commercial operation only. And so I think that addresses my concern as well. Yeah, and I remember that when there were a couple issues specifically about the Paris Pike that they had that small area development plan specifically for Paris Pike. But the other thing was a lot of their wine was produced elsewhere. So they were kind of bringing it in there and we weren't clear if that was really the primary cause, the primary use or not. Yeah, I agree. I think they were calling it a winery when in fact they were importing all their wine. Right, yeah. So we have to just, so our difference here is what? He's planting plants. He's growing lavender. Yeah, you've got to line the ground because it likes a very alkaline soil. So there will be lime. Understood. And I think that's the difference between this application and the one that we heard some time ago. And that's a difference. And that's a difference with a distinction, I think, or a distinctive difference. How do you say that? But I think it separates this application from the one we heard before, and it resolves my issue with this application. If you have an active farm, then you can have a farm gift shop. And planting or preparing the soil and things like that are part of running an application. We'll start preparing soil way before May. Understood. That's all part of farm operations. The difference would be if you simply wanted to open a gift shop with a promise of a farm later. That's different from your application in this case as I see it. Whether you've given me approval or not, the lavender goes in, the building goes up. We're going to do all that. Sure. Yeah, I think that was our concern before. We were promised that, and we were trying to determine if that was actually going to happen. And where it was a little premature, we thought. It's like, okay, I think how we finished that was that you plant the vines and you grow the grapes, and then you apply for this type of conditional use. And then that's where I remember it. I think you're right, yeah. I don't remember, because if he had had the vines planted and the grapes, I think we would have approved that. But it was, I don't know what happened in that presentation, but we got the feeling as though there wasn't going to be the grapes and the vines coming. And that's not to say we don't believe you, it's just that those are. I can show you the bill for the plants. As it goes, typically if you've got the farm, then you apply for the conditional use. So this is just a little bit the cart before the horse. It seems like from at least how we've been consistently voting here. Well, like I said, the building's going to go up. I'm going to be finishing it out. I can always come back if that's what you want. Because as I understand it, once I have the plants in and I've got a farm, I can come back. So I could open up the store in June instead of May, and that's fine. Chad, on that wine scenario, it was a long-term, I mean, they didn't have any plans to plant. I mean, they didn't have any short-term plans to produce the wine there. I think that was a long game. I don't know how long lavender takes or doesn't take. How long does lavender take to mature? I mean, you planted and now you farm. The first year you get a little bush, and if you get any flowers, you've got to cut them off because you want the plant to grow. The second year you get a bigger bush with some flowers, but not enough to really generate a lot of revenue. The third year you get this big bush and a whole lot of flowers, and from there on out. And the plants last about 10 to 20 years. I'm familiar with it. We're planting 1,000 plants every year for the next four years. Maybe more, but it all depends on the soil. Yeah, I'm familiar with growing asparagus, and it's the same kind of process. It takes several years before it. Yeah, I've grown asparagus before. They're really good, though, when you can go out and pick them right away. You're talking about two years already, and I'm making a property. You're farming already. Yeah, yeah. So what have you done so far? You've bought the property. Bought the property. I've got the building into the engineer right now to get stamped so that we can put the building up. I've already got the contract with Jane Kaye Builders. It's a pole barn builder in Richmond and Lexington. He tells me he can get the building up by the first of the year, but that's just a shell. Then I got to finish off the front end where I wanted to put the offices and things for the, where the store would be. And that's going to take, I don't have an estimate. I was hoping I'd be done by May, but that's probably very aggressive. I would feel more comfortable about this application if you had some tangible farming activities ongoing on the property. now before before we but before you make this application for a gift a gift shop that would be that would be more appropriate i think under the re under the strict reading of the zoning ordinance okay and so what i'm what i'm suggesting and what i'm hearing from from the board we're trying to to we're trying to make a distinction between your application and one that we denied in the past. Right. I'm not sure I've heard anything yet that persuades me that there's a big difference between this one and one we denied in the past. So perhaps the best recommendation for you, rather than taking a vote on this application today, where you stand the risk of being denied, and therefore being denied to submit a similar application for a year, Right. It may be more prudent for you to request a continuance of this application for some period of time until you have farming activities in progress on the site. And then that would be more persuasive to us as a board to grant your application. Okay. And so my question is. I would support a postponement, but I think you were kind of taking a poll, and I would also support it as is. I don't think that you have to have already completed the farming process to be farming. You just have to start the farming process. I wouldn't wait until the crops are in and complete before I had determined that that was. I agree with that, but I would like to hear some testimony about the farming process. I mean, the farming process, I'm not sure the farming process means staking out a design for a future building. Sure. I'd like to hear more. It means figuring out where I'm going to put the fields, taking a soil sample down to the university. Having them tell me what I've got to add to the soil and then going out and getting it. And horse manure is good for lavender. So I figured this might be a good spot for that. Sure. Well, do you have the receipts for the lavender plants that you've bought? Yes. Do you have them with you? I might on my phone, yeah. Okay. I didn't think I needed to bring that, but I might have something. I've got to turn my phone back on, too. Mr. Chair, let me also mention that in the scenario with the wine situation, that application actually had another winery in another place, in another county. And they were bringing that wine to this location. So I think that makes it really different than this application. I tell you what, Mr. Santiago, while you're looking for that, let's hear from the opposition. Yes, sir. So come up if you would please. Tell us your name. Angela Stivers. And welcome Mr. Santiago. Thank you. We will be neighbors. We are neighbors. I'm good. My house is right here. This is the proposed. This was my Aunt Jean's property, Basler, and my Uncle Fred. Basler for many, many years, and I live here for 38 years now. So I felt like today was a chance for me to speak out. Like I said, I hadn't met you before, but welcome. And I certainly want to be a good neighbor because to me, a good neighbor is invaluable, especially where I live. This has been my home and my husband's home before that. He retired here at this fire station right next door. He was a captain. He's been gone six years and five months. This house dwelling here was his grandmother's. I'll get on to perhaps my concerns right off. There's a sharp curve. There's a curve here coming up. This is the beginning of the old Richmond Road here. My observations from living there for many, many years, they will hit the gas very quickly here. They come speeding up this way. I'm not sure that there might not be problems with an entrance for a business with people coming in, going out. So that's one concern because I've seen how they drive out there on that road. And I suppose another concern would be what kind of an advertisement sign would be right at the road's entrance where the business would be. From my front view, this is my view looking down this valley here. And from a personal aspect, I like it the way it is. I can't deny saying that. So perhaps that might not be a substantial reason, but it's a very great one for me. Let me see what else. What are my thoughts here? So I'm thinking this is the dwelling. Mr. Santiago, that's the dwelling? Yes. That's the house? And I'm asking, will you live there? Yes. Will you be dwelling there? Yes. In the home. And so this is the building you propose here? Yes. Okay. Okay. Except that they tell me I've got to put it back through. I have yet to see the property. My son has been there. I'm leaving here to go see it the first time. Okay. But I bought it. She did. Perhaps a good question I thought would be, what if their business fails and you sold it, would another business be allowed to come in there, and how does that process work? Well, this is a request for conditional use. Typically, a conditional use does not survive a sale of property if we put that as a condition. I'm not sure Autumn perhaps you can tell us As our recommendation is currently written if Mr. Santiago were to sell the property to another person who were to continue it as a lavender farm they could continue with the lavender farm gift shop but if they were to make any sort of substantial changes and no longer meet the application materials as presented or the conditions they would have to reapply but we also could add a sunset condition that we did not include one here, but we could that says that if the property transfers to other ownership or is no longer operated by Mom Mom's Lavender, that the conditional use would be null and void. That's something that the board could add. Well, and understand this. The application before us is not for the Lavender Farm. It's for the farm gift shop. Store gift shop. So if he no longer wants to grow lavender and wants to grow grapes instead or asparagus or whatever, then that's not part of this application. This is only an application for the gift shop itself. So we can't answer your question about what happens if the lavender enterprise fails, because we don't that's not an issue that's before us well I certainly don't have any can do objections to a farm that that whole community is farming still has been behind my house grow my cousin Freddie grows corn field corn Before that it was tobacco. So it is a leased out. Pardon? Was it leased out? The farm? Yeah, the property I got. No. It looked like someone was farming. Your property? No. Leanne was there with her two small children and she just mowed that big field with her lawnmower. Okay. It had cattle on it when the Levy's owned it. It was one large farm from there all the way to Athens. Ms. Divers, can I ask you a question? Certainly. How does the, I noticed here, the wineries affect traffic in your area? Because there's a few wineries on that road, is that correct? The winery is on Old Richmond Road, the winery of, there's a winery on the corner of Grimes Mill as well, Grimes Mill, which is down this way. Not on South. Cleveland. There is not a winery that I know of on South. Okay. The other the winery over here is you cross the bridge of the interstate on the other side. They have a restaurant. Every farm that I've been on has a certain odor, and I can't imagine a better odor for a farm than the smell of lavender. So I'd like to find a way to grant this application if we can. Any other questions for Ms. Sauber while she's up there? Tracy, did you have a question? And take your mask off so we can see your face. Yes, I would just offer that Mr. Santiago, when he filled out his application, does not plan to operate the gift shop until May 1st. So he's offering to restrict his gift shop to just three to four months out of the year already. So I think the staff would encourage the board to factor that in. He wouldn't be opening the gift shop this year at all, obviously, and not until next May. So obviously there's a lot of agricultural activities that can happen between now and May 1st. Sure. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Wade. Any other questions for Ms. Seiber while she's up here at the podium? Any other questions? Thank you very much. I appreciate your time. Thank you. Okay, thank you. It took me forever to get to this email because I don't do this email on this phone. But now I've got to find it in the folders. I apologize for not. Well, I was going to bring my computer and I could get to my computer real quick. I'm not real good on the phones. You know, one of the things I didn't do before this, before we started today was to swear all the witnesses. and so I'd like to swear you in right now if I could because I'm going to ask you a question that requires a sworn answer. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth? I do. Thank you. So, Mr. Santiago, have you begun farming activities on this property? No. Okay. Do you expect to begin farming activities on the property before you open the farm gift shop? Definitely. Okay. Do you have a schedule or a plan? You mentioned May when the plants go in. May 10th, I've got to pick up the plants, and it's 1,120 plants. That means I've got to have seven beds, 175 foot long, already tilled, made into beds, with the lime, with the fertilizer, with the horse manure. and you put this black cloth down. It's a special cloth that lets water go through and keeps the weeds out. All that has to be done before May 10th. If I don't make it, I'm going to have a whole bunch of plants sitting around that cost me $6,000 that are kind of at risk of dying. So, yeah, I've got a schedule. And it's kind of a tight one. And I do have the receipt. I just can't. I'm sorry. It's all right. It's in here somewhere. But your testimony is you've already bought the plants. Pardon me? Your testimony is that you have already purchased the plants. Yes, I have. Okay. They just haven't been delivered yet. Right. Well, they start, lavender is like any other small plant. In order to get the exact same thing, you have to propagate off the plant. You can't go from seeds. So all these plants, someone at another nursery has gone around and cut all these shoots off, and they're propagating them right now. And between now and May, they're going to go from that status to small pots to a bigger pot to a four-inch pot. I get them at the four-inch pot, and then I plant them, and I get a big plant. Gotcha. So, yeah, all that's happening right now. Okay. I've heard enough, and the staff has recommended approval. Any other questions for Mr. Santiago? Okay. We ready to vote. No, I mean, I think the lavender is a great idea for a farm. I've actually been to one and they're fantastic. So I think my only concern still, and this is just, is normally I feel as though if the farming has begun and you were coming to us, it would be much easier for me to say yes. I'm obviously in favor of Lavender Farm because it's a place you kind of want to go and visit and see, and the colors are amazing. I'm sure the smells are as well. So that's probably why I would not. But it's just not that you're not going to get there. It's just it's a little bit soon, if you ask me. And you haven't even seen the property. So not that that means anything, but that's probably where I sit. But you get the plants in, I'm all for it. Okay. So why did you file the application to be heard today if you're not planning to? I just believe in moving ahead on everything as fast as I can. That's all. It's not critical to me, like I said. If the postponement's a good idea, a continuance, that's fine. April will be great. In April, I'll be farming like crazy. So you won't have time in April. What are you talking about? Yeah, you'll be busy with farming activities. You don't want to come back before us. Okay, I don't have any other questions. Anybody else have any? Joan, you have questions? Yeah, I have a question for staff. We seem to be hung up on whether or not he's going to farm. So this is a conditional use permit. If he doesn't farm, this permit can be yanked from him. Is that correct? That is correct. So typically conditional uses are inspected once a year. Additionally, if we were to receive a complaint from a neighbor or something like that, that he's not farming but he's got all these people coming in and out of this gift shop, then our zoning enforcement staff would investigate that, and we would go from there to try to either get him into compliance or cease the use of the gift shop. Thank you. Yes, that's what I thought, and I thought we were spending a lot of time trying to figure out what his plan is. He's told us, but it may not work exactly that way. We know about rain and some other things. But, yes, I did think that was true with the conditional. Thank you. That's helpful to me, too, believe it or not. I appreciate that. you want a motion i'd like to entertain a motion yeah bring forth a motion yeah okay i'm ready i'm ready for a motion go ahead okay i move for approval for pln boa 21-6062 my mom's lavender request for a conditional use for agritourism activities in order to establish a farm gift shop in agricultural rural zone on property located at 1061 south cleveland road based on the staff's recommendations and subject to the five listed conditions i second the motion thank you miss carter thank you miss whitman please indicate your vote electronically let me get it up there four okay we've got four four yeas and two nays the motion carries and we wish you the best of luck with your project and come out to the farm because i got eight different kinds of lavender going in, and each one smells different. You won't believe it. You might be the first lavender farm here in central Kentucky. I don't know who else grows lavender. There is one. I don't know if it's central Kentucky. It's more northeast. And then there's one out. All right. Well, good luck to you. I do have one final question, Mr. Santiago, and I'm almost afraid to ask the question. Why did you name it Mom Mom's Lavender? because my wife was my mom to the kids. I thought as much. And remember I said she passed away. And her mother was my mom, and my daughter-in-law, who I'm in partners with, is my mom to her. So that's why. Okay. Thank you very much. Good luck with your project. Thank you. Okay. Okay, we have other business to conduct, so you all are welcome to continue your conversation out in the hall. Thank you. Thank you. We have the final matter on the board's agenda is to consider the meeting and filing schedule for next year. Everybody got a copy of that by email? And have you looked at it and checked your calendars? If so, we can entertain a motion, and if you have any comments or concerns, we can address them after the motion is made. Anybody wish to make a motion? I'll make a motion. I'll recognize Mr. Clark. Ms. Whitman, do you want a second? I'll second it. Ms. Whitman seconds a motion. Any discussion about the meeting and filing schedule for next year? Hearing none, we'll entertain. We can vote electronically, either yay or nay. I'm going to vote in favor. It looks like it's unanimous. That's the last item on our agenda. Any further matters? Any staff items? Mr. Chair, I had one question. Any board items for Mr. Needham? Mr. Needham, you have a question? And this maybe we can talk off the record, but I wanted to discuss the recent ADU, I guess, approval, and what our role is in that. Maybe staff could talk about that. Sure. So a zoning ordinance text amendment was recently approved by council regarding accessory dwelling units. As far as what that means for this board, short-term rentals of accessory dwelling units will be a conditional use. So if someone wants to convert their basement or space above their garage into an accessory dwelling unit and then do it on Airbnb or something to that effect, they would have to apply with the conditional use application and you all would hear those. So we would probably be looking at whether that would be appropriate in that particular location like we do with all conditional uses and perhaps whether or not there are a number of those popping up in a certain area or something like that. So, yes. How do current, I mean, I don't know if they're officially considered apartments, but there's a lot of garage apartments in Lexington. How do those get handled? Would they have to apply for an ADU for a conditional use? Those that exist currently would just continue, I believe, as they've been a non-conforming use, so they would now be conforming unless they didn't meet some of the new requirements for new ADUs, like the square footage limitation or something like that. Then they would be non-conforming in whatever regard, but they would be essentially grandfathered in. But someone could ask for a conditional use to operate one of those as a short-term rental. And then it seems like the big issue is obviously what came up were just parking and obviously all the NIMBY stuff. I guess we'll just have to hear each one case by case. Right, yeah, it's a little hard to predict. I know I heard in one of our staff meetings today that we're about to have had three pre-applications for accessory dwelling units, so that's where it is so far that we're starting to see them filter in. But I've not heard anyone say anything about wanting to use any as a short-term rental. So whenever that happens, that will come to you all. I would say that we're going to have quite a few, and I think it's going to increase our workload considerably, and I think our pay probably ought to increase as well. You want to make a motion for that, Mr. Clark? Double our salary? He'll double our salary. What distinguishes an ADU? Is it the kitchen? Is that the distinguishing characteristic? That is correct. You all have seen some administrative appeals and things in the past to allow second kitchens. That is typically sort of what triggers a second dwelling unit. So previously accessory living quarters were allowed as long as they were not rented and did not contain kitchen facilities. So accessory dwelling units will be able to have those kitchen facilities. And there were a number of other provisions, like I mentioned before, a square footage limitation and things like that to ADUs. Okay. We will take them as they come. Any other matters before the board, before we adjourn? Hearing none, this board is adjourned. Thank you.