# Environmental Quality and Public Works Committee - April 18, 2023 > Auto-transcribed civic record · April 18, 2023 - **Permalink**: https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/meeting/5797 - **Source video**: https://lfucg.granicus.com/player/clip/5797?view_id=14&redirect=true - **Date**: 2023-04-18 - **Last revised**: April 18, 2023 - **Length**: 8,476 words - **Speakers**: Chair > ⚠️ **Auto-generated content.** Audio from the official Granicus video was auto-transcribed with OpenAI's open-source Whisper large-v3-turbo model, run locally by The Lexington Times. Structured facts were extracted with GPT-4o; the narrative summary was written by Anthropic Claude. Verbatim wording may contain errors. See [methodology](https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/about/methodology) or [report a correction](mailto:editor@lexingtonky.news). --- ## Meeting Overview The Environmental Quality & Public Works Committee convened on April 18, 2023, at 1:00 PM with L. Sheehan presiding as the committee chair. The committee addressed four agenda items during the session, focusing on administrative approvals and key infrastructure planning initiatives. All four items brought before the committee were approved, including the approval of the February 7, 2023 committee summary, a Capacity Assurance Program (CAP) ordinance change, the FY24 Pavement Management Plan, and items referred to the committee. The committee conducted four votes during the meeting and heard no public comments on the matters under consideration. ## Attendance All members were present for the meeting on April 18, 2023. **Present:** • L. Sheehan • H. LeGris • D. Wu • T. Fogle • S. Lynch • B. Monarrez • D. Gray • P. Worley • F. Brown • D. Sevigny **Absent:** None **Late:** None ## Votes and Decisions The meeting included four unanimous votes, with all 10 members present voting in favor of each item. **Approval of Minutes** [timestamp: 00:30] D. Gray motioned to approve the minutes, seconded by D. Wu. The motion passed unanimously by voice vote (10-0). All members voted in favor: L. Sheehan, H. LeGris, D. Wu, T. Fogle, S. Lynch, B. Monarrez, D. Gray, P. Worley, F. Brown, and D. Sevigny. **Ordinance 0130-26** [timestamp: 02:00] D. Sevigny motioned to approve an amendment to change the audit frequency of the Capacity Assurance Program, seconded by D. Gray. The ordinance passed unanimously by voice vote (10-0). All members voted in favor: L. Sheehan, H. LeGris, D. Wu, T. Fogle, S. Lynch, B. Monarrez, D. Gray, P. Worley, F. Brown, and D. Sevigny. **Budget Resolution for Pavement Management** [timestamp: 45:00] F. Brown motioned to approve a resolution to include $15 million in the budget for the pavement management plan annually, seconded by D. Gray. The resolution passed unanimously by voice vote (10-0). All members voted in favor: L. Sheehan, H. LeGris, D. Wu, T. Fogle, S. Lynch, B. Monarrez, D. Gray, P. Worley, F. Brown, and D. Sevigny. **Acceptance of Pavement Management Plan** [timestamp: 47:00] F. Brown motioned to accept the Pavement Management Plan, seconded by S. Lynch. The motion passed unanimously by voice vote (10-0). All members voted in favor: L. Sheehan, H. LeGris, D. Wu, T. Fogle, S. Lynch, B. Monarrez, D. Gray, P. Worley, F. Brown, and D. Sevigny. All votes were conducted by voice vote with no recorded opposition or abstentions from any members. ## Approval of the February 7, 2023 Committee Summary [timestamp: 00:30] The committee reviewed the minutes from their February 7, 2023 meeting for approval. L. Sheehan led the discussion of this agenda item. The committee examined the summary of their previous meeting proceedings without any recorded concerns or amendments being raised during the review process. Following the review, the committee voted to approve the February 7, 2023 Committee Summary as presented. ## Capacity Assurance Program (CAP) Ordinance Change [timestamp: 02:00] The committee considered an ordinance amendment to modify the audit frequency requirements for the Capacity Assurance Program (CAP). The proposed change would extend the mandatory audit interval from every two years to every five years. Graying Luback served as the key speaker presenting this agenda item to the committee. The discussion focused on adjusting the regulatory oversight schedule for the program while maintaining appropriate monitoring standards. The committee approved the ordinance change, formally adopting the new five-year audit cycle for the Capacity Assurance Program. This modification represents a significant shift in the program's oversight structure, reducing the frequency of required audits by more than half compared to the previous two-year requirement. The approved ordinance will implement this new audit schedule going forward, affecting how the Capacity Assurance Program operates and is monitored by regulatory authorities. ## FY24 Pavement Management Plan [timestamp: 10:00] The committee reviewed the updated Pavement Management Plan for fiscal year 2024 during agenda item III. F. Brown presented the plan, which incorporated changes recommended by the subcommittee. The presentation outlined the plan's budget allocations and project selection processes for the upcoming fiscal year. Brown detailed how the subcommittee's recommendations had been integrated into the updated version of the pavement management strategy. Commissioner Albright participated in the discussion following the presentation. The agenda item was structured as a presentation to inform committee members about the revised plan and its key components. The committee approved the FY24 Pavement Management Plan following the presentation and discussion. The approval allows the plan to move forward with its proposed budget allocations and project selection methodology for the next fiscal year. ## Items Referred to Committee [timestamp: 50:00] The committee reviewed the list of items that had been referred to various committees for further consideration. F. Brown led the discussion on this agenda item. During the review process, the committee made several modifications to the existing list of committee referral items. Most notably, they removed the Paving Management Plan Subcommittee from the list of active committee referrals. The committee also removed several other unspecified items from the committee referral list, though the specific details of these additional removals were not elaborated upon during the discussion. The committee approved the updated list of items referred to committee following these modifications. --- ## Decisions - **Motion** — passed (10-0): Approval of the minutes - **Ordinance 0130-26** — passed (10-0): Amendment to change the audit frequency of the Capacity Assurance Program - **Motion** — passed (10-0): Resolution to include $15 million in the budget for the pavement management plan annually - **Motion** — passed (10-0): Acceptance of the Pavement Management Plan --- ## Full transcript Music Thank you. Thank you. I apologize for the delay, but we wanted to have a moment of honor and respect for the school crossing guard, James Holland, that recently passed away. So thank you for allowing us to be present for the motorcade outside so we could pay our respects. I will call our meeting to order for April 18, 2023. This is the meeting of our Environmental Quality and Public Works Committee. The first item on our agenda is approval of the February 7, 2023 committee summary. Are there any additions or corrections that anyone would like to offer? Okay. Seeing none, is there a motion to approve? So moved. Second. Motion by Council Member Gray, seconded by Vice Mayor Wu. Any discussion on the motion? Okay. Hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay, that motion passes. Moving along to our next item on the agenda, we have an update on the capacity assurance plan. This was presented at our February meeting, and we ask for this to return to the committee with a draft ordinance amending the frequency of the audit from every two years to every five years. As you can see in the packet, the amended ordinance is there. We have Greg Lubeck, the Deputy Director in our Division of Water Quality here to answer any questions. I can take any questions now before I ask for a motion. Please sign in if you have any. Okay. Can I have a motion to approve this ordinance? And a second? Second. Okay. Council Member Savigny gave the motion. Council Member Gray seconded. Any discussion on the motion? Hearing none. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? That motion passes. Thank you all for considering that request. and passing that. Okay, moving along pretty quickly. Next we have on our agenda the fiscal year 24 pavement management plan, which includes an updated pavement management plan that came out of the pavement management subcommittee. The items are in your packet along with the presentation. Council member Fred Brown, would you like to offer any remarks to introduce this item since you served on that subcommittee yes thank you chair yeah this uh i guess even the new council members know that this has been something that's that i've had a lot of information and a lot of input into since uh 2015 really when i came back on the council 2015 this was one of the things that but I felt like it needed to be cleaned up, and I'm always recognizing that we need plans and we need some resolutions and ordinances in place to make government more efficient. Well, one of the areas was this pavement, come up with a pavement management plan, and the commissioner, the predecessor, there, the one commissioner before, Commissioner Albright, we worked on this with several of the director, I think, Rob, the director Rob and others. And gee, I guess we worked on this thing nine months or whatever, just trying to get everything together to see what we could do and how efficient we could be. So, and as we have progressed each year, We've kind of, the commissioner has come forward and tweaked some things and gotten some things that make it more efficient, make it easier for each council member to address their local streets. And I think this is important. And then the administration also looks at this. And we finally got the administration in line with us pretty much in getting the budgeted dollars in there. So we're able to spend that. And I'm looking forward to making sure our streets and roads are in proper order. So I would like to introduce our Commissioner Albright. We've worked together pretty close. We did have a subcommittee that was formed last fall, and that was Council Member Legree and Council Member McCurron and myself, and went over some things just to tweak the management plan again, the pavement management plan. So there were some things that we put in and gave to the administration. So they have incorporated what they needed to do into this particular management plan. So I would like for the commissioner to bring everybody up to date, and we'll have a little bit of history in this, too. So I think it's very interesting. It is for me, anyway. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you all both very much for that introduction. And while we do tend to always have a smile when Council Member Fred Brown talks about paving, it is very much appreciated. His interest and enthusiasm in bringing our pavement management plan into modern terms and continuing to lead that effort is very much appreciated. I will move right into the presentation. This agenda, there's a lot of bullet points on it. I know we have plenty of time, but I will still try to move a little quickly through a lot of this. Council Member Brown was kind enough to walk through some of it. I'll go into a little more detail on some of the history. Again, to get you from kind of where we started before the first pavement management plan to what we're presenting today with the work of the subcommittee. prior to the first as Council Member Brown alluded to prior to the first pavement management plan as you can see in that first bullet point a lot of it was handled by visual inspections and while that's very good and we still do visual inspections that did introduce a certain amount of subjectivity into those into our needs and so the interest back in 2015 was can we develop a more data driven process And so that's where we've landed and evolved to over the last seven or eight years now is to get to this data-driven at least assessment of our pavements. Still a little bit of a work in progress even these years later, but we've made a lot of strides in this area. The pavement management plan that was passed in 2016, along with the resolution adopting a dollar amount, it was considered a five-year plan at that time. So in 2021, we started talking about the need to revisit the plan. And then in 2022, we actively started working with the subcommittee on making the changes. And of course, everything kind of slowed down, as we all know, in 20 and 21. but it was nice to get this to completion last year. And this is just showing you briefly the resolutions that were passed at that time. They tended to remain in the packet. There are revised resolutions at the end of the presentation. And again, that history is important because one of the things that was really fundamental in increasing our annual paving allotment up to the dollar amounts you see in front of you on the graph. We didn't always quite hit the $15 million mark, but that's been our goal ever since the adoption of the plan has been within the confines of our budget, how do we get to that target amount. So one thing I want to point out on this slide is just that the red and the blue bars don't always align very well. In fact, hardly ever. But that, I'll explain that a little more in the next slide. And then some of you may remember that in 2021, calendar year 21, we pre-funded some large paving projects right at the end of the fiscal year so that we could go on and allow ATS, our contractor, to start working on those. So that's why the red bar is so much higher in 21 and then lower in 22. And this speaks to the discrepancy maybe between the red and the blue bars on the graph. While it's intuitive to a certain extent, just to point out, the paving season and the fiscal year don't line up very well. In fact, they're kind of exactly opposite each other. We pave from, as the slide indicates, from early April, as early as the temperatures allow, into almost Christmas if they can get there now. So we used to think of November as being a typical shutdown time, but honestly, if the calendar and the temperature allow, they will continue paving as long as they can. But again, this follows kind of a calendar and a season instead of the fiscal year. So that's kind of what makes it a little hairy. And then despite our best efforts, sometimes predicting the beginning and ending of the paving season can vary by a week or two. Not to mention the last at least two summers, I think we've had some crazy months in June and July where we have had more rain than dry days. So that can obviously slow down progress as well. And this just gets to speak to the, there's a lot of terms and there's a little bit of overlap. so I wanted to just highlight a couple of those for a second and make sure that we don't get too confused, I guess, because I get confused myself on this a little bit. In Fayette County, we have what we consider four types of roads, and of course the ones we take care of, that first bullet, are the roads that LFUCG owns, the city system. And we'll dive into that a little more in those road classes, But that's the first swipe that we kind of look at up there. And then we have the county system, which is the historic county system that is maintained by funds from the fiscal court. You will see a resolution later this summer adopting those funds and the roads that those will address. So we don't worry about the county network with these funds, with the paving funds that we're talking about today. And then, of course, we have the state roads. And while we do a lot of cooperation with the state, they pave the state roads. So unfortunately, or fortunately, you'll hear us all say from time to time that's a state road, and that's sort of the blanket nod and disappointment about it'll get paved when it gets paved on their schedule. And then that last bullet down there, private roads, you all may obviously all understand already, but we don't pave private roads. And there are more sometimes than people realize, I guess, that have opted, a subdivision has opted to remain private rather than, you know, be a part of the city network. And so those are also exempt from this budget process. So within, primarily within that first bullet on road type, we break that down into the four road classes to talk about the paving program. And again, that first one is our largest chunk of roads that is well over 50%, I believe, of the local roads, the ones that we're going to talk with you all about one-on-one as we move through the decision-making process of what gets paved. The service and industrial roads, that's a newer, it's not a new category, but it's new that we've called it out. And this was due with the cooperation and support of the subcommittee. They recognize that these are the roads, if you think about behind Eastland Shopping Center, in front of Richmond Road, they're owned by us most of the time. That's a little bit of a patchwork quilt sometimes as far as sometimes they're private. Sometimes they're still owned by the state because they've never transferred them to us. But there is a group of them that we own that don't have residential properties on them. And so they don't have a neighborhood association or anybody that really sometimes advocates for them, and they can tend to fall into disrepair before it's on anybody's radar. And because that has tended to happen a lot over the last two to three years, where it's been a real question of how is this road going to rise up on the list of needs? In talking with the subcommittee this year, it was determined that we would set aside a small amount of money to start addressing those. We've done it the previous two years. It's just like a set aside. But this year we're going to, the proposal is to kind of bring it in and talk about it along with some of the pots of money. And you'll see that in the next couple of slides. And then, of course, the collectors of the neighborhood streets. Those are things like Garden Springs Drive, Lansdowne Drive. And then our major and minor arterials are things like Euclid, Shinoah. The ones that I probably do want to highlight here are Tates Creek is one that we recently adopted from the state. It's a major road that we maintain. And Manowar is a major piece of our network that we maintain that is, for all intents and purposes, a major arterial. So as we discuss that moving forward. so the plan divides the allocation that we get in the budget every year based on those road classes so moving to that and again these are the things that as we talk about these are the first one the adding the service industrial road as a category was something that was determined by the subcommittee that was a good progress to make. The second bullet there is a pretty big deal too because that's something we've recently moved to and we're going to continue to really encourage and work with council members on is developing that 200% list, kind of a rolling 200% list so that we're never looking you know there's always been this history of coming back and saying hey you've got 20,000 more dollars, hey you've got 15,000 more dollars and that created a lot of stops and starts in a council district or it created a lot of pauses. So always having a list that is much larger than any annual budget will help us always make sure that work is continuing in an efficient manner. And then it also will allow us to, if we have to remove a list from consideration because a utility is working there, we're going to put that road on pause and we're going to go down to the next one on a council members list. And so that actually also will help us again in that manner of trying to be efficient with our paving dollars. There also was a little bit of a concern from previous council members that didn't finish spending their money. Were they actually unintentionally getting a larger proportion of the budget the following year because their roads had gotten worse? So this is also one of our safeguards about this way we always have active work going and everybody's local road networks should be going in the same direction, hopefully at about the same pace. And then the last two bullets on there, the emphasis on efficiency. We are moving to, and I hope some of you all have gotten to see it already, the map-based kind of outline of your road conditions so that it's a little easier to look for logical segments and look for how conditions may wander over the course of a street. And then the recalibrating the road class percentages is something that actively worked on by the subcommittee this year. So again, these are a little different. The old one, not that it was hard and fast rule, but we aimed for anywhere from 10% some years to 30% other years on the arterials. So this year we've locked in at 25%, and then we're going to use some of that funding for the industrial and service roads as well. Those aren't necessarily always big ticket items, but again, just making sure they're called out somewhere, and that they will be reviewed at the administration level as based on need. And then the collectors, again, that's always something that seems to be looking for money. And the local roads also, that's somewhat hopefully indicating that they're a large percentage of our network, and that's why they need to be a large percentage of our budget as an item. And the preventive maintenance, previously that was always kind of a takedown within each line item, and it was 25%. But over the last two or three years, we've realized that that was too high once we started increasing our budget amount. So we reduced that percentage down to 10% with the understanding of now that we're budgeting an eight-figure number instead of a seven-figure number, we probably don't need quite that much set aside for preventive maintenance anymore. And just to go quickly through how the projects are selected, Again, the neighborhood roads, the local roads, we will provide each council member a list of roads that meet the basic criteria as needed for eligible for paving. And then we will work with you on helping make those decisions as much as you need or want us to. And then we will get the list back from you all and vet that with all of our utilities and other potential engineering projects and things. And then we will move that towards construction. The collectors, arterials, and service roads are reviewed more on a citywide level, and that's why the administration takes the lead on those, but then they'll share that and work with council on, again, the feedback. We know the feedback you all are getting every year is going to have a lot of things we won't necessarily hear, and so we value that conversation about if you are hearing something, we definitely need to go look at it. This is hopefully something that's not necessarily new. There is a caveat in there, the third bullet that I'll walk through. Again, this timeline is really geared around the paving season more than the fiscal year. And so what we do is we'll start after the approved budget getting that interpreted into allocations for each council district and then eligible roads based on that money, and then we'll work with you all over the summer and into the fall about getting a list ready, and then it will be ready for spring when the new paving season starts. However, if we have that 200% list, we will keep that list moving as much as we can in any one paving season. And because the 200% list is still a little bit new, So that's why we want to make sure that it's stated up there that this optional deadline of July 15th, I apologize, is out there for anyone who wants to. You want to work with us over the summer, we want to work with you too about getting a list ready for this year, for this fall. Commissioner, I'm just going to say, I know you're speaking about some of the subcommittee and the paving management process, so I would just like to allow you some more time. How much time do you think you might need? Three or four minutes. Okay, I'm going to make the motion that you have five more minutes. Can I have a second? All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Okay, go ahead. Thank you, ma'am. And again, I don't want to jump the gun on the three o'clock presentation, but what's been requested in this year's budget is $14 million. dollars. And this is how that would shake out with the new pavement management plan guidelines. And again, I just want to highlight that the arterial service road piece, that it would include Manowar at the pace, the way things look right now, that would be a part of that arterial piece. We have, sometimes in the past, we've set aside a million dollars separately for Manowar. And for any of you who haven't already heard me say this, I tend to compare of Manowar to the Golden Gate Bridge in that you get to the end and you just start over at the beginning. So we always have a section of Manowar that we're working on. And then this is, again, using the $14 million as our starting point and then using the qualifier of OCI, the condition index being below 60, which is what in the pavement management plan starts to qualify for consideration for resurfacing. This is the number of lane miles that is in each council district below that, and that's how we start to determine how we're going to divvy up the 5.6 million. And then at the very bottom, I just wanted to point out why some of these numbers look big. It costs almost $90,000 a lane mile. So it does not go nearly as far as we all wish it did anymore. And then one note, just we looked at the past. I want to end with looking at the future. A couple of items. Nathan Dickerson in our office has been fantastic about wanting to move this more and more into tools that are easier to analyze, condition, and use. So making sure that the quality, we just had the network rerun in 21. Okay, a couple of nods that make me feel better. And that took a lot longer, unfortunately, to go through a quality analysis process. But that was time very well spent. It kind of highlighted some issues and errors that we'd been carrying that we didn't realize. So continuing to work on improving the data quality and the tools, again, the mapping system of where, based on the complaints that we may be getting, what does the software say the road is after the van is driven over it and looked at the number of cracks per lane mile. And then, again, we still like eyes on, so we'll always, if as much as possible, send one of our inspectors out to go review in the field as well. Just again, part of looking forward would also be we've been on a three-year cycle of doing that data collection out in the field. And so our next time to do that would be fall of 24. So fiscal year 25 budget will include a request to do a new data survey. And one of the items that we've expanded on, and I wanted to be sure to at least highlight, is that we have been reviewing. We've long used a percentage of recycled asphalt. Some of you have hopefully heard the word milling before or you've seen the lovely corduroy look that the pavement gets there for a while. That material is reused as much as possible. So we put about 20% of that back into the pavement when it goes back down. We've been working with our contractor and an outside independent consultant to review that and see if there's opportunities to increase that percentage. So for the last couple of years, we've done some trial runs of just a few roads every year that would increase up to 40% or 45%. So that allows us to actually use more of that right back in. And then the last thing I want to highlight is the map that we have, so hopefully some of you all have had a chance to review the construction project information map that includes water quality projects, engineering projects. We have another layer that lets you look at right-of-way permits so you can see who may be in the street somewhere. There is also going to include now, it does include our early, what I'm calling right now, our early 2023 paving list. So that will continue to be updated as roads are approved and vetted and handed over to our contractor. Once they're ready to roll forward, it will end up on our map as well. So I appreciate the allowance of additional time. The two resolutions, I think, are right behind the pavement management plan. And with that, I think I'm done. Thank you, Commissioner. Colleagues, I'll open it up for any comments and questions that you may have. Council Member Savigny. Yeah, thank you very much, Chair. Yeah, I've got three different questions. The first one is I think in 2018 we approved that the resolution was $15 million. It sounds like we didn't do any sort of cost of living changes with that. And COLAs were about 20% over that time. And our budget increased actually 42% if you look at this coming year from 2018. And I just didn't know if that was discussed, if that was discussed or is paving getting that much cheaper that we're just, it's great. It would be lovely if that were true. It is not. Frequently construction indexes go up faster than cost of living or any other index. We did not adjust it because it's been a hard number to sustain in its current form. And we did talk about it's still a lot of that is still buried in the quality of our estimates and moving to a system where we can say that this was the foundation of the 2016 plan was we have this much need. It will take us this long to get there. And so we need to budget $15 million to hopefully get to a sustainable program. That is somewhat old data, but the quality of our estimates is what probably has gotten the most better to where we can say we actually probably were being a little conservative in our estimates. And then on the collector piece, so collectors, like it looks like the council has a decision on collectors, but I don't, since I don't know how that works. Sure. Is that something that you make recommendations and we generally approve those recommendations or, you know, how does that work? Because a lot of collectors will also cross districts. Correct. And I don't know exactly how that works. It's more of a conversation, probably. We'll tend to try to look at the citywide need and ensure that we are putting our money where it's most needed. But again, if you hear something from a neighborhood or you go and look at something and you go, oh, my gosh, this is horrible, then we definitely want that feedback. Because what we're looking at may not include all the facts. But we're going to try and spend that money at a citywide level. So that kind of tends to be where it will stop. Okay. And then my last question is, in a conversation I had with Director Burton, he mentioned that there are some streets in older neighborhoods that when you mill two inches, you're at dirt. So there's obviously streets that actually aren't like at any sort of not how we would build today. And I don't know, do we have a methodology to support rebuilding of streets in older neighborhoods to support a longer life? So far, my answer would be no. So I know in the four years I've been here, we have uncovered railroad ties, bricks, lumber, concrete. I think before my tenure, they uncovered part of a basement. So it's a kind of a discovery method still more than I think some of us wish it were. When we get to, so the piece of Lansdowne Drive that we're doing this year is sort of the last piece of one that we know was built at a time when standards were very different, and we have invested some energy into picking that road up to current standards. But it would probably go back through an engineering process and project to get on a rebuild. Okay. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Very informative. Thank you, Chair. Vice Mayor Wu. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Commissioner, for your presentation. I've got a couple of questions. So, given the realities of climate change and given the, you know, the tendency in Kentucky and in Lexington for that freeze-thaw, freeze-thaw cycle that's just wrecking, you know, our roads, are you, when you project out and look out 5, 10, 15 years, are we looking at any particular either cost increases or increases in number of projects or frequency in which we have to like patch and pave kind of related to that as opposed to 20 years ago? I do feel like the thing that I'm hearing the most is the frequency, that the pavements don't last nearly as long as they used to. You used to be able to do a 15 or longer year cycle, and now we're really at the edge of a 10 to 12 year cycle for the most part. So there's been a lot of conversation around the cause and the solution at a state and national level. Still working on the best solutions to help stretch that life cycle. Prevent and maintenance was one of our primary tools. Yeah, so my second question kind of taps into that exactly. Are there any sort of technologies, innovations that are happening either on the national, state level, or in other countries, or best practices in terms of either frequency or how we go about this process, kind of looking for, are there some forward thinking sort of ideas that we're working on that we're not always just trying to play catch up with nature? Expanding our tools and our preventive maintenance would be the one I would highlight the most. As we continue, our group goes to a lot of state conferences and national conferences to look for up-and-coming technology, and we do still talk to a lot of vendors. Sometimes the question is trying to figure out if it's a proven or if we're an experiment and trying to find the balance of those two. But, yes, we do look at expanding our tools. We have two primary tools we use right now for preventive maintenance and always trying to see if there's another one we should consider. Thank you, Commissioner. You're welcome. Thank you. Council Member Worley. Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Commissioner. And I think a lot of you all know that I probably second only to Council Member Fred Brown and my enthusiasm for paving and funding the pavement management budget. And to Council Member Savigny's question about some sort of price index, cost of living increase, well, I think that would be wonderful. I think if you look since 2018, we've only fully funded the $15 million one time, and that was last year. So what we say we need to keep up, we've not even funded that as a practice. And so I think it's something that we need to always keep in mind, that if we're going to say that this is the minimum that we think we need to keep up, then we need to fund that, and then we need to think about in the future if that is enough to cover it. But I don't really have a question other than that comment just to say thank you to you and your team. Director, you're back there. Nathan, you're there. The work that you all have done these past couple years have stretched every dollar, even now this $15 million so much further. The work that you've done with our pavement contractor, who I believe is a great partner to this city, of working through efficiencies. What are things that help them help us, and how can we do that? I think you all have improved so much. And I think one thing that I would like to hear even more about, which you've highlighted here, and to Vice Mayor Wu's question, this could be a whole presentation in and of itself of the innovative, cost-saving, and environmentally sustainable practices that you all are trying to start implementing along with our contracting partner, ATS. I know of things like moving away on really heavily trafficked roads like Manowar, moving away from the older technologies with polymers and things like that and moving towards fiber technology and that are meant to make these roads last longer using recycled asphalt materials. So I think that the public would really like to know the good work you're doing in not only being environmentally sustainable but helping this government save money and get more out of its paving dollars. So while this is not the appropriate place to make a motion, I would just as chair, would you, and I'll be happy to shepherd that, would you place that sort of presentation into the committee at your convenience? Because I think that the public would like to hear more about all the work that you all are doing to make our roads better, cheaper, and more environmentally sustainable. So thank you. I would be happy to do that, and thank you for that suggestion. Councilmember Legree. Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Commissioner, for this presentation, and to Councilmember Brown for helping bring our subcommittee together. I really enjoyed learning about the past and the future of our pavement management plan as part of that committee with Councilmember Ellinger Brown and former Councilmember McCurn. And I've also really appreciated sitting down with Nathan and tracking kind of the pavement process and all the technologies that you all are using. And I know that I've asked lots of questions by way of my constituents sometimes about what's the best way to find out about what's on the administration's list, what's being paved in relation to utility work, the progress of council requested projects. And so as I'm thinking about the best way to direct my constituents, do you think that that map that you all have created is a good resource for them to check out so that they understand what's going on? Or what should I tell them when they want to know, is Kramer being paved or is Rose or what's happening? with Woodland Avenue, for example. Sure. And I do think that is the most solid information as far as being easy to consume. And it's been approved and looked at by everybody, and we know we're moving forward with that. Short of that, it is still a little bit of a, you know, I just went through one before lunch today about a local road that Kentucky American hasn't finished their work yet on. So still trying to figure out the balance of when that road will be repaved. So unfortunately, I'm sure there'll still be plenty of questions that don't get answered by that map, but hopefully there'll be a few that will. Well, thank you for that. And yeah, I'm just so impressed with your team. And as Council Member Worley mentioned, just the way in which you all are always reconsidering your processes and being innovative and thoughtful with us. And, you know, akin to the question about milling, I often get questions, and I know you'll be able to answer this, about curbs. So people will wonder if my road is being paved, and it's been paved many times, do I get a new curb? Is there anything you would want to share about the relationship of paving to curbs, especially in our older neighborhoods? That is a great question, and it is one that we continue to wrestle with, I think, as an administration and as a city about the importance of being a long-time maintenance and paving person myself. the value of the curb to managing the water is critical, and yet we do not have a good tool as a city to make sure that they are always in a state of good repair. And so those do tend to follow sidewalks in our interpretation of responsibility, and so those are the responsibility of the homeowner still. Okay, interesting. Well, thank you for sharing about that. I'm going to think a little bit more about curbs. I'm not sure if I'm going to enter them into committee, but we can talk more about that in the future. Thank you, Chair. That's it. Thank you, Commissioner. Councilmember Focal. Thank you, Chair. And thank you for your hard work, Commissioner, and your team. My question is, I heard you talked about the reused pavement. Do you have a list of the streets that get the reused pavements? and can that be provided to my office just so that I can see how the reused pavement is, I'm hoping, spread out across Lexington. And that because I know the roads in First District looks like you guys could show up like every week to repave them. So I'm really concerned. I've got limestone from third all the way down to New Circle. And if anybody's been on limestone lately, I'm pretty sure you've lost an axle. And that's really my question. And that's really my only question. Thank you for the awesome work that you all are doing. Thank you for that. We actually all of the roads get the 20% recycled content. So the list for the 20% list would be everything. The list for the 40% or 45%, I would be happy to share. It has typically been actually more on roads that we are either collectors or above. We've not used it that I recall as much in the local neighborhoods so much. It's been things like Mercer Road, Manowar. I'm trying to remember where else we've used it. And so they've usually used it on things where we're employing a lot of tons at one time. Okay. Because when I was listening to you, I was always thinking about, like, south of the city. So I was waiting for something like Winchester Road, something in the north side when you were speaking. And then thank you for the question about the curb. What I have not been able to understand, so the property goes all the way out to the curb for the responsibility of the homeowner? I may look back to our lawyers at some point here quickly so that I don't get too off track. But there's a gray area between the sidewalk and the pavement. So that would be the part where the curbs, if I remember right, there's no ordinance that speaks to the responsibility of the curb, but there is for the sidewalk. And so the curbs follow the sidewalk. They're not cringing, so hopefully I didn't mess that up too badly. So thank you so much. You're welcome. Council Member Brown. If you could, I'd like to go last, and I'll sum it up and maybe make a motion on the two new resolutions. Thank you. Council Member Gray. Thank you, Chair, Madam Commissioner. First and foremost, I want to say thank you to you and your team, specifically Nathan Dickerson, for being a great help for me and my district. My very first thing on my list was dealing with the paving in the 6th District. I know I've been probably a nuisance, maybe. Oh, I'm getting head shakes of being no. But I'm curious of the, on one particular road, there's a lot of sealant that is being used. Is that normal for the ceiling? I think it's the black. The crack ceiling? Yes. Not normally, so if there's a road you want to let us know about, we'll go back and take a look at it. There was an older practice. Are you saying current or older? It's actually a newer neighborhood. I'll just say the street, Kavanaugh. Okay, we'll go back and take a look at it. Which we've spoken about. Yes. Also, I'm curious of, could you give me examples of the preventative measures or maintenance methods that's used by your department? Sure. The two we use most often are the crack sealing, although over the years we have tried to evolve that away from doing every little bitty crack all over the place when we visit a road to mainly the joints. And then we do that much sooner. We do that within three years of resurfacing. and we try to make sure that that road has had all the joints sealed to help keep the water out. Again, one of my early presentations in front of this body was water is the enemy of the pavement, so we try to do whatever we can to keep the water away. So the crack sealing comes very quickly. And then another one that we will use is called rejuvenation, where we inject another round of oil into the pavement. It's sometimes a petroleum product. It's sometimes a plant-based product. It can kind of depend on the needs of that area. But both of those are kind of, again, the glue or the viscosity that that oil brings helps extend the life of that pavement. Thank you. Also, what about potholes? Is the feeling for the potholes the same material used for paving? In the summer, yes. In the summer, it is a hot mix surface mix. In the winter, we use cold patch. Sometimes we can heat it up, but frequently it's just a product that will not perform. It's not designed to perform as well, unfortunately. So it's usually a short-term solution. Sometimes you'll get one that will stay for a long time, but normally, unfortunately, they are short-term. Oh, I have time. So typically, do we go back and refill those, the ones that we fill, the potholes that we fill in the winter? We will wait to see if that comes back first. So if it comes back and we get a new report, we will go back and fix it. And we do prefer to fill with hot mix. Well, thank you, Commissioner, for your time. And back to you, Chair. Thank you. Before I offer Council Member Brown the opportunity to make our motions for the resolutions in our packet, I just want to remind the public that the full paving management plan is in our packet for this committee today, and that is posted publicly, but then also every year after the paving management is approved, the full plan is posted on the government website as well. And I also want to extend my thanks to you, Commissioner Albright, and your team for all of your work. Council Member Brown, I would like to turn it to you to make a motion for our resolutions that we have in our packet today. Okay, thank you, Chair. Before I do that, I'd like to just comment on a couple of things, sum up. ATS has been a major contractor, paving contractor, and they've built a company up that has the equipment and the manpower, and they do a lot of state work and a lot of work. And arriving at the $15 million, we had to rely on what they could actually do. So that number that we talk about in the budget really maxes them out. In other words, they can basically, under contract, support a number like that for paving. And that's why that's the other angle coming into that money. Just throwing more money at it probably wouldn't help at this point in time because they would have to upgrade and update their facilities. And then when you're looking from the business side, when you've got a major contractor with using that much dollars, you can't just pull the rug out from under them and say, okay, we're only going to do $5 million next year, and then we'll jump to $10 million or whatever. And in the past, we've had that problem. So we need to be more consistent on that. And then I think you didn't mention too much about the OCI, which is the overall condition index. And this was done by a consultant back in 16. We didn't just pull these things out of the air. This was a consulting group that looked at all of our roads. They actually went out to every street, I think, in Fayette County, or the ones that are local. And at that, we've been building on that, and I think the last time they come in about every three years and revisit that, and they get that overall condition in tech. So what we had done as a committee said, okay, let's pick a number that we want to look at, and 60 was the number that we kind of looked at and could actually get out. You could tell your constituents or anybody that's interested, well, we've got a paving rating system, and you just don't fall in that lower part yet, but we are monitoring that yearly. So when you look at your listing that you would get, you'll want to look at those streets that are below 60. And then the thing about collectors, we did, we resolved that, But at one time when we first started out, we talked about putting collectors under the jurisdiction of council members. Then that got resolved, and we actually said we hope council members will get involved in collectors and locals since they're entwined together. And the reason I say that is if you're doing a group of local streets, you're going to maximize your dollars if you do a group together. And if you have a collector in that group, you even maximize your dollars even further. So when you're looking at that as each council member, because this is where we get down to the nitty gritty in helping in our paving in our districts. and so I just wanted to sum that up to the rating system is what you can always fall back on if you want to tell somebody well this is a rating of that street if we need to go out and get it re-rated we can anyway based on that we've got a couple of resolutions I think there that we need to or I want to bring forth a motion and it's a resolution on be it resolved by the Council of the Lexifed Urban County Government, Section 1, that the administration include $15 million in the budget for the pavement management plan annually beginning in physical year 2024. Section 2, that this resolution shall become effective on the date of its passage. Resolution can be reviewed every year or whatever, but this right here brings us up to date on a new resolution. So moved. Second. We have a motion from Council Member Brown, a second from Council Member Gray. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Okay, that passes. And the second resolution would be resolved by the Council of Elections for Urban County Government. Section 1, that the pavement management plan, which is attached here to and incorporated herein by reference, being hereby as accepted, that this resolution shall become effective on the date of its passage. And I note that although the commissioner didn't go over that attached to our packet was the actual pavement management plan as updated. So I would move that we accept that and move it on to full council. We have a motion by Council Member Brown, second by Council Member Lynch. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay, that passes. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Okay, last on our agenda are any items referred to committee that needed to be updated or removed. One of the items, Council Member Brown, is the paving subcommittee. Do you want to remove that at this point? Yes, and that should be an annual pavement management. I don't see it here, I don't think. But there should be an annual, under the annual system of an update. There is a paving management plan that's item 11, but item 16 is the paving management plan. I move to take 16 off. You need a second? Second. So motion by Council Member Brown, seconded by Council Member Lynch. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay, that passes. Any other items or amendments to items? I would like for, I make the motion to remove number three, solid waste trash compactors. Okay, we need a second. Second. Motion by Council Member Gray, seconded by Vice Mayor Wu. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay, that passes. Any other items or motions at this time? Okay. Just quickly, at the end of our last committee meeting, I didn't comment on public comment, so I would like to just take a quick moment to address the issue of public comment for this committee meeting. At this time, council is working to revamp the public comment process, and as that work continues, in order to maintain consistency in all of our standing committees, the chairs are working under our current council rules, in which committee meetings are working meetings for council and do not have public comment on the agenda. We will proceed that way until a new process is recommended by the public input subcommittee and pass through our council rules. Please know that you have the opportunity to speak at a work session or a council meeting, and I would encourage you to email or call us at any time with any comments or questions related to items from this committee or other issues of concern. But since this is the first day that I am making this announcement, I do want to offer anybody that is here today that wanted to give public comment that opportunity for this meeting only. Is there anyone that would like to do that? Okay. Seeing none, I will move on. I just want to give everyone a little bit of a preview of our next meeting. Sometimes our agendas change, but currently for our May 23rd meeting, we have on the agenda an update from our composting program, an update from Jada Griggs on our sustainability plan, the Empower Lexington plan updates, and the Solarize Lexington. And then I have also asked KU to do a presentation for us, particularly when storms arise. We get lots of questions from constituents about the process for burying our power lines. And KU has offered to give us a presentation about how we can talk with our constituents about that and what the processes are like. So that is currently on our agenda. there are no other items on our agenda for today so i would take a motion to adjourn council member focal moves council member civigny is our second all in favor any opposed okay we stand adjourned Bye.