# Urban Growth Management Master Plan - Advisory Committee - August 8, 2023 > Auto-transcribed civic record · August 8, 2023 - **Permalink**: https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/meeting/5878 - **Source video**: https://lfucg.granicus.com/player/clip/5878?view_id=14&redirect=true - **Date**: 2023-08-08 - **Last revised**: August 8, 2023 - **Length**: 11,046 words > ⚠️ **Auto-generated content.** Audio from the official Granicus video was auto-transcribed with OpenAI's open-source Whisper large-v3-turbo model, run locally by The Lexington Times. Structured facts were extracted with GPT-4o; the narrative summary was written by Anthropic Claude. Verbatim wording may contain errors. See [methodology](https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/about/methodology) or [report a correction](mailto:editor@lexingtonky.news). --- ## Meeting Overview The Urban Growth Management Master Plan Advisory Committee met on August 8, 2023, at 10:00 A.M. at Forcht Bank, located at 2414 Sir Barton Way, Second Floor. Larry Forester presided over the meeting. The committee addressed three agenda items during the session: an introduction and charge of the advisory committee, a discussion on the decision-making process, and the adoption of a timeline and schedule. The committee took three votes during the meeting and heard no public comments. Two of the three agenda items—the discussion on decision-making process and the adoption of timeline and schedule—resulted in approved outcomes, while the introductory item was informational in nature. ## Attendance **Present:** Larry Forester, Todd Clark, Andi Johnson, Todd Johnson, PG Peeples, John Phillips, Bill Wilson, Zach Worsham, Judy Worth, and Dan Wu. **Absent:** James Brown, Alison Davis, Chuck Ellinger, and Kathy Plomin. **Late:** None reported. ## Votes and Decisions Three motions were voted on during the meeting, all of which passed unanimously. **Decision making process by vote** Motion by Bill Wilson, seconded by Todd Clark. The motion passed unanimously with 10 ayes, 0 nays, and 0 abstentions. All ten members voted in favor: Larry Forester, Todd Clark, Andi Johnson, Todd Johnson, PG Peeples, John Phillips, Bill Wilson, Zach Worsham, Judy Worth, and Dan Wu. **Adopt a tie vote as a defeat of a motion** Motion by Dan Wu, seconded by Zach Worsham. The motion passed unanimously with 10 ayes, 0 nays, and 0 abstentions. All ten members voted in favor: Larry Forester, Todd Clark, Andi Johnson, Todd Johnson, PG Peeples, John Phillips, Bill Wilson, Zach Worsham, Judy Worth, and Dan Wu. **Adopt the proposed timeline schedules with flexibility** Motion by Bill Wilson, seconded by Todd Clark. The motion passed unanimously with 10 ayes, 0 nays, and 0 abstentions. All ten members voted in favor: Larry Forester, Todd Clark, Andi Johnson, Todd Johnson, PG Peeples, John Phillips, Bill Wilson, Zach Worsham, Judy Worth, and Dan Wu. ## Introduction and Charge of the Advisory Committee Chair Larry Forester opened the meeting by introducing himself and the committee members, emphasizing the critical importance of unbiased decision-making as the committee undertakes its work on behalf of Lexington's future. Director Jim Duncan then presented the tasks and goals established for the committee. The primary charge includes expanding the Urban Service Area by 2,700 to 5,000 acres. This expansion represents a significant undertaking that will guide future development and planning decisions for the region. The presentation was informational in nature, establishing the committee's mandate and scope of work without debate or formal action items at this stage. ## Discussion on Decision Making Process The committee held a discussion on establishing a decision-making process for the body. Key participants in this discussion included Judy Worth, Bill Wilson, and Dan Wu. The committee considered how to structure their voting and decision-making procedures. After deliberation, the committee approved a decision-making process modeled after existing procedures used by the Planning Commission and Council. Under this approved process, a tie vote results in the defeat of the measure being voted upon. The outcome of this discussion was approved. ## Adoption of Timeline and Schedule The committee reviewed and adopted a proposed timeline and schedule for future meetings. Bill Wilson and Dan Wu led the discussion on this agenda item. The committee approved the timeline and schedule, with the understanding that flexibility would be maintained for adjustments as needed. No specific concerns or objections were raised during the discussion. --- ## Decisions - **Motion** — passed (10-0): Decision making process by vote - **Motion** — passed (10-0): Adopt a tie vote as a defeat of a motion - **Motion** — passed (10-0): Adopt the proposed timeline schedules with flexibility --- ## Full transcript Good morning everyone. I want to make sure everybody's here. You're well fed, I hope. If you're not, we have refreshments on this side of the table and some donuts and some fruit from Chick-fil-A. This is on behalf of myself. The city is not paying for that, so please eat it. but also at Fort Bank as well but honestly thanks everybody for coming this morning this is the first meeting that we have right now for the urban growth management plan my name is Larry Forster I'm the chair for the planning commission and my day job I'm here at Fort Bank so please we want to welcome you say thank you but just a few housekeeping notes the bathrooms are out the double doors to your right and hanging left, male is first, female the second. If you need any other refreshments, coffee, we have a kitchen right behind us so you can go through this double door here or you can come through this double door as well. So just giving the idea there. I think everybody found their parking pretty easily, I hope. Got access up here, so trying to get this started. So I want to welcome you again. This is going to be a historic deal. I think it's been since 1996 since this decision has came up. So we're trying to work through that, do it in the best ability that we can, per the charge of the Urban County Council. Some of you may not know about the Urban Service Boundary Line, where it's at. There's a lot of questions about that. The planning staff has some good information. They're going to get us acquainted when we go through this process. This process is going to be extensive. We want to make sure everyone is highly educated and knowledgeable so that you can make the best decision, not for yourselves, but for Lexington as a whole. We want to take an unbiased approach to this as much as possible because I think that's key when we're looking at the growth of Lexington, Kentucky. It's not about me. It's not about you. It's about our future of Lexington, which I look at it as the younger group, the kids that are here and the kids that are not here yet, and what we want to see Lexington to be for them. So just try to keep that in mind. And I had a few quotes here, just two of them, and I'm a sports guy. The first one was, winners never quit and quitters never win. So just understand that part. And the next one is from Thomas Edison. Opportunity is missed by people mostly because it's dressing overalls and looks like work. So we're going to work today. We're going to work going forward. So just understand that it's going to be tough, but I do appreciate it. So with that being said, I would like to do an introduction to the current members that are here. We have a few members that's on this committee that could not make it today, but the ones that are here want to give you a chance to make a quick bio of yourself, who you are, kind of, I guess, what makes Lexington good for you and where you would like to see Lexington go. So we'll start here. Mr. Clark. Thank you. Todd Clark. First generation farmer here in Fayette County. My wife, I probably should mention that pretty quickly so it doesn't get back to her that I didn't mention her. But my wife, Kristen, and I, we have three sons. Aaron, the oldest, farms full-time with me. Nick just graduated from the University of Kentucky and is down in Dallas working for AT&T. And the youngest, Rudy, is just starting school at Western Kentucky University. so glad to be here Mr. Johnson Todd Johnson, I'm with the Building Industry Association here in Lexington been here, raised my family here about 20 years in the community have a son, work for Kentucky Farm Bureau in Bowling Green a son, luckily stayed here with the grandkids, works for R.J. Corman my wife is a professor Lexington has been a great place for us and our family to raise our kids here and enjoy growing my career here and look forward to the opportunities that this brings to help our city grow, grow our economic base and still remain the community that we are, that we all love and want to see flourish. Thank you. Mr. Wilson. Well, my name is Bill Wilson. I'm representing the Planning Commission today. I'm a long-term resident of Fayette County in Lexington. In fact, I've been here all my life, except a 10-year stint in New York. I'm married. I have a wife who is much smarter than I am, and I admit that openly. She has three degrees from the University of Kentucky. I have one. We met at the University of Kentucky. I have a long interest and involvement in planning. My sister-in-law has served on the Louisville Planning Board for something like four generations. for decades. And she's been both on the staff side as well as on the part of the planning commission side. So when I get real stuck, I call her and ask her what's going on in that area. And we're able to compare notes. But I've enjoyed Lexington. It's been a beautiful area. And it's an area that I've really enjoyed raising my son in and hoping to do what I can on this committee to continue to move Lexington forward. Ms. Worth. I'm Judy Worth. I'm also a member of the Planning Commission. And if I tell you how long I've been here, you'll have some sense of how old I am. I moved here in 1971 to go to graduate school. Intended to stay a year or two, and here I still am. One of the reasons I stayed is because, frankly, I grew up in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. And although all my family is down there and I'm a Texan, I think it's really important that we do a good job of managing how we grow. and avoid a lot of the mistakes that are happening in other places. I am retired these days. I used to do consulting work, a lot of it for nonprofits, and I'm very interested to see how this evolves. I guess I should confess that I was on the Goal 4 Work Group, so I've been somewhat familiar with, I presume, a lot of the material we're going to be looking at. So thank you for the opportunity. Now, Julie, you told me you were 35. A few years ago. Ms. Johnson. Yes, I'm Andy Johnson. I'm the Chief Policy Officer for Commerce Lexington. I am from South Central Kentucky, the Bowling Green area, but college brought me to the Lexington area. I went to Georgetown College for my undergrad. I went to UK for graduate school. And so really the last 20 years, on and off, Lexington has been my home. And I love Lexington very much. And at the Chamber, our focus is on really making Lexington the best place for talent and job creation. And I've been there 10 years now. And our focus of this process is just trying to see opportunities where we can grow in the right way, but also really preserve what makes Lexington unique and special going forward. So I really appreciate the opportunity to represent the Chamber and the business community in these conversations. Thank you. Council Member Woot. Good morning. Dan Boo. I'm your vice mayor. Happy to be part of this committee and this work. I grew up in Lexington. I've lived most of my life here in Lexington. I've lived in some big cities and I'm very happy to be back home here. There are three words for me that inform everything that I want to do as Vice Mayor, and those are equity, sustainability, and beauty. Equity because we don't want to leave people behind. Sustainability because we want to leave something for our children. And beauty because life's not really worth living if your life isn't fun and beautiful and lovely. And I think when we think about planning the future of what Lexington looks like, those are three things that we should keep in mind. And I'm here to help do that. Thank you all. Peebles. Peebles. I work with the Urban League. I've been with the Urban League. You said it tells age. Yes, it does. I've been with the Urban League 54 years here. The signature activity that we're involved in is affordable housing. The opposite for it, they've been affordable. We've been doing housing since 1985. Started in the urban core and we're still focusing a lot on the urban core. done over, started out building houses for sale. There's about 165 of those and at the same time we trained ex-inmates coming out of prison and helping them get a job. Ms. Johnson, you understand that work, helping these guys transition. And there was a time that there was a dip in the economy, so we had to back away from doing this for building houses for sale and start doing rentals. And we now have over 200 rental properties here in this city. That's it. Affordable housing is who we are, who we started out being and that's who we will be. Let me tell you, if you don't want to hear that from me, tell me to leave right now. Because you're going to hear it forever. That's who we are. That's what's important to us. There's nothing that pleases me more than to see a family who never dreamed that they would own a house and to see them the day that they take ownership. One of the things that I remember the most was an elderly lady who had worked as a maid here for some people all her life when she finally got to the point where she could buy a house. And all of us in here remember that when we bought our house we went to the table and pulled out the checkbook. Some of you may remember what your grandmothers did when you reached in and pulled out that handkerchief and rolled out the down payment. That was so emotional. So these are the kind of people, Larry, that we want to see be able to own houses and be able to rent safe, sanitary, affordable houses. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Peterson. Mr. Worsham. I'm Zach Worsham. I'm with Winterwood Incorporated. We're a 40-year-old real estate firm based here in Lexington that has a focus on affordable housing. Personally, my wife and I are lifelong residents of Lexington and we just welcomed a new baby boy in the world and I'm honored to be part of this opportunity to shape the future of Lexington. Thanks. Welcome to the boy club. Thank you. My name is John Phelps and I was born and raised in Columbus, Ohio and I selected Lexington. I selected Lexington because it is the best place in the world to raise a horse. Whether you believe that or not, I can assure you that it is for a number of reasons. So I came here because of the land, quite frankly. But I also have a philosophy that a thriving urban area is maybe the best way to preserve what is a unique and limited theological asset known as the inner bluegrass. I'm very committed to things like affordable housing. and I'm really glad to hear that emphasis. And the quality of life that Lexington has, it has been a sensational, ideal, wonderful place to raise a family. And I can't think of any place I'd rather be than Lexington, Kentucky. I'm honored to be on this committee, although it's going to be challenging. Thank you, Mr. Phillips. We do have four members that are not here. Council Member Brown, Council Member Ellinger, and Council Member Plumman. And then also Allison Davis. She's coming to the shaman. I thought she was coming. She's coming, okay. Just making sure everyone is aware of that. But with that being said, I will pass it over to Mr. Duncan for the presentation. Larry, thank you. Thank you for getting us started. And especially thank you to Fort Bank for hosting this meeting. It's a great way to kick off a meeting, a work like this. And I'm just going to warn you, this is the only time we're going to do a meeting in this level of style. From now on, we'll be back at the government. No donuts, no tablecloths, no anything fancy. But we're grateful for Fort Bank hosting this, Larry, and for you hosting this today with us. I have a few more introductions that I'm going to make. And then I want to lay some background because I believe every one of you knows at least a piece, if not the fullness of what lays ahead for us. And I want to give us some background to make sure that we're oriented as we do this task. As John said, it's not going to be easy. And we are proposing an aggressive schedule to do this. We'll talk about all of this over the next little bit. You may think I'm talking longer than I should, so I do apologize in advance. And we'll take a break, and Larry's going to do something formal with us. But it is important that we sort of set the table and know where we're going on this. First of all, joining us, we've got a number of staff, council staff and from other parts of government with us today, and our guests who are not associated with the government, so we're glad that you all are here. This is an open meeting for government purposes, so anybody can come to the meeting, and we are broadcasting it. Tim and Haley from our government communications have set up, it's not a live feed, I don't believe, is it, This will be broadcast later on YouTube. So this will be available if you want to review it later or tell someone who wasn't here. And I understand these microphones that are strategically placed are on at all times. So if you need to say something you don't want to be picked up, please back away from the microphone. Thank you all for being here and for part of this public process of this meeting. In addition, we have some planning staff here and some other support staff for planning. But we'll start with our Commissioner of Planning, Keith Horn, in this position here. He's the Commissioner for the Department of Planning, so he's the liaison with the administration. And the Department of Planning includes not only Division of Planning, but Historic Preservation and Purchase of Development Rights, a number of issues that will be important for this. We also are joined by the Division of Planning staff, Chris Taylor, who is the Principal Planner for Long Range Planning, and acting manager for the Long Range section. Senior planners Hal Bailey, Boyd Saway, and Valerie Friedman from Long Range Planning. And then on the back table we have S.B. Stowe, who is our digital content administrator, and Rachel Lay, who is our administrative specialist. And you all have received emails from Rachel and will continue to receive correspondence from her. Also, there are a number of our friends in the audience, but I'm just going to highlight a couple more that will be working with this group. We've got Chris Storch back here with his laptop, and he will be integral as we start working on the mapping exercises in a few weeks. And then we also have Beth Overman on the sofa back here. She is the director of the PDR program and will be important to help us know how our land has been formally preserved in the rural area and how we want to interact with that. And then from the law department, we have Brittany Smith, and we have Tracy Jones who advised the Planning Commission and the planning staff in all their work. And at this time, I would like to ask Tracy if she will come give us some words. Well, good morning, and I'm glad you all are all here to join us in this adventure. I'll just be here to help along the way. I'll be at your meetings and answer questions, and if there's any legal inquiries, We'll take a look at those as they come up. Jim also asked me to just let you guys know, some of you, probably most of you are familiar, that after the goals and objectives were adopted by the Urban County Council, that there was a lawsuit filed, and it is pending. We have, the law department is not specifically handling that. We have contracted with a law firm outside of the government that does a lot of work for us, and they're handling that. we've talked with them and we wanted to let you guys know that they feel very comfortable that you guys should forge ahead with this work and take it on and do whatever you need to do if anything changes with that we'll let you know but Jim wanted me to let you know that this morning because we were concerned that question might be out there so that's really all I have to tell you right now probably better to hear it from you less so I just wanted to fill you in and let you know, I would be here if those things come up legally and we'll try to address them. Okay. So this is where we started. We started covering our agenda. And by the way, you all have this in your package. You've got these notebooks that Rachel's put together. The agenda's in there and some other information that we'll be referring to throughout the morning. Let me give you a little bit of background about planning. And for those of you for whom you've heard this, I apologize, but we do want to get everybody kind of on the same page here. we're going to talk about two different things this morning. The urban service area and the comprehensive plan. And it's the comprehensive plan and more specifically the goals and objectives adopted by the Urban County Council that have you all in this room today. But the urban service area is the topic of discussion. So this is something that was created in 1958 by the then Joint Planning Commission of the Fiscal Court and the City of Lexington. And this was done at a critical time for Lexington, and any of you who know the history. A lot was happening at that time. IBM was coming to town. New Circle Road was being built. We were becoming a modern city. So a lot of things were happening. And in part, the Planning Commission at that time, and I'm sure with input from the fiscal court and the city of Lexington in particular, was concerned about the provision of public services to the citizenry, in particular sanitary sewer. And so the Planning Commission in 1958 created the first urban service boundary in the country in order to manage the construction and extension of sanitary sewer into areas that weren't previously developed. And it was really meant as a way to manage the coffers of the government to ensure that sanitary sewer service was being provided, because there was kind of switches during that time as well to those sorts of processes. And it started working well. It helped define Lexington as more of an urban area, and development was then taking place under those parameters. The urban service boundary was expanded and contracted throughout the 1960s and early 70s. And yet, all along, it kept its same principle as being something that was meant to manage public infrastructure. But along the way, the urban service boundary became so much more. And it remains, of course, a way to manage our resources. And as you see, most urban development is inside the urban service area. In fact, private development that's outside the urban area existed before 1958, and so it was able to continue. But what it became was also a way to recognize and manage our rural assets as well. As John said, we are in a unique place in the country for the soil and the quality of agriculture that we have here in this area. and Fayette County is the epicenter of that. And we realized that by not only protecting the rural area from urban sprawl, of course we were making urban development more efficient, but we were protecting then the rural asset for a future use. And so, 40 years later, after the establishment of the urban service boundary, the Urban County Council took even more aggressive steps to help the rural area as well. And at that time they limited the subdivision of property in the rural area to no less than 40 acres with a lot of input from the farming industry and the farming community on what it takes to have a viable farm and 40 acres was the number they settled on. At the same time realizing that that would have an impact on farmers who perhaps had other plans for their land, they instituted the Purchase of Development Rights Program. Now that does really two things. It certainly preserves the rural land from future development, from future subdivision, but it also provides an opportunity for the farm owner to receive investment from the government to do more with their property and to be more a partner in that. There are other ways to participate in the PDR program as well. You can voluntarily donate your land. And then there are other conservation programs in Fayette County. But the bottom line is because the urban service area enabled the rural area to be protected, then this community has been able to take those next steps to ensure that not only is it protected, it is protected for life. And that is really what the PDR program does. So this map now, it's a contemporary map. It shows the urban service area in the orange line. And just to give you a little context, about 54,000 acres of the urban service area, that's what that is, about 30% of the county. The total county is about 182,000 acres, and then that leaves the rural area about 128,000 acres. So 70%, 30% divide between urban and rule according to the line right now. And then in addition, of course, you see all these little white hatch marks on the map. And by the way, this map is in your packet as well as a standalone map. Those represent the preserved farms. And it's about 30,000 acres of rural land that's preserved. Most of it in the PDR program, but also some of the other preserved options that we have. And fortunately, this has done what the Rural Preservation and the Council was hoping that it would do and starting to create clusters of preserved land in the rural area so that those farms, not only based on their size and certainly their natural features are viable, but then also there's a synergy with other farms doing the same type thing and there's less concern about what's happening next door. The goal of the PDR program was 50,000 acres preserved and they're still marching towards that. But this map indicates there's been a lot of interest in the program all around, all around the county. And as a result, it has been a successful program. So the urban service boundary, about 54,000 acres, urban service area, I should say, the urban service area, about 54,000 acres, where most of our urban development is the rural service area where most of, where all, practically all of our rural development is, and where we also have rural preservation as well. Other assets in the rural area, we can certainly talk about that, but did want you to know that the main thing that this is showing to you is the preserved land through the PDR and other preservation programs. Looking at this map, we've said before, this orange outline around the urban service area, if you ever forget what that is and stumble upon it, it is the profile of Scooby-Doo. So we are about to change that. And so let's just jump right ahead. We'll dwell on this at this moment. We'll come back to it. But you are going to be making a new, recommending a new map to the Planning Commission, a map that will look different than this. We'll talk more about that in just a moment. So that's the urban service area and how it defines urban development, rural preservation, and the task that's before you now. Let's talk about the comprehensive plan, which is the mechanism that brings us to this room. So the comprehensive plan is the planning document that guides growth and development in the community for the foreseeable future. It is a best practice for any community across the country that regulates its land to have a plan, to have a roadmap for the future. In Kentucky, we are also compelled to do it. State statute requires that any community that regulates its land through zoning must have a current comprehensive plan. And statute requires that it be reviewed every five years. So there's no way that you can't at least acknowledge that you have looked at the plan. The statute does not require that the plan be rewritten every five years, and some communities don't. They look and they say nothing has changed significantly since the past plan. We reaffirm this plan and keep moving forward perfectly fine. I can tell you that I'm working now on my fourth comprehensive plan for Lexington, and we have never just affirmed the previous plan. In almost every case, we start over again and certainly give it the full measure of what has happened over the past and what do we want to see going forward. Comprehensive plan does a number of things. Not only does it, of course, give us a roadmap, but it is also the document that anybody who wants to change the zoning in their community must first go to. They look at that and say, how does what I want to do with my land agree with the comprehensive plan? And if it doesn't, then we've got to figure out how to get there. So also in our office, in addition to the long-range planning staff, we have two other sections, the transportation planning staff and the planning services staff, so a total of 30 of us in the office. And they are charged with, in some respects, certainly planning services is charged with implementing the comprehensive plan. because the plan does provide the roadmap for the future. And our transportation planning section, similar to long-range, looks at the future for just transportation issues. All of that works together to inform the comprehensive plan. So you can see these are the various elements that we've identified in our plan, everything from land use and neighborhoods and housing to job development to infrastructure and community facilities and transportation. All of that is part of our plan. And the plan itself is, we encourage you to review that if you haven't. It is online. But we are in the midst of updating the 2023 plan right now. It's called the 20 Lexington, Imagine Lexington 2045, because we want to remind people that we're looking out into the future. But in five years from now, we will be updating this plan once again. So it is a constant iteration of updates. But before we can get to the elements of the plan, which is adopted by the Planning Commission, we have to get direction. And that's through the goals and objectives. Again, required by statute. And the goals and objectives are approved by the Urban County Council. And we're starting to get close here to where we are with you all. So in your packet, I believe, Rachel, under tab 2, is the complete list of goals and objectives adopted by the Urban County Council. About eight pages. Now, there are some remarkable changes in this set of goals and objectives from the previous 2018 version, and this council is to be credited with that. We're still, of course, pursuing housing and neighborhood development. That's been important for our comprehensive planning for a long time. But as you look through these goals and objectives, you will also see that we can front head on some of the problems of the past related to segregation by race and socioeconomic status. And we're certainly looking at trying to help solve a problem of the future, and that is getting to net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. Just a few years ago, it would have been unheard of to have this kind of specific direct language in our comprehensive plan. This urban county council had no trouble doing that, and we are grateful to be marching along with them and their goals of solving these problems. Also in this plan, you'll see that, again, regarding equity, we're looking at our transportation system, and that this plan should be people first. And that is so important to remember, that we are planning for the people. As Larry said, the little ones and the little ones still to come. That's what we're thinking about. So I encourage you to read through the adopted goals and objectives. There will be other inputs in here that will inform your decision-making. But if you will turn to the next tab, and I believe the way Rachel has this, the third tab, It may look like there's a blank page, but if you'll turn that, you'll see there's two pages facing each other. I believe this will be helpful to you. First of all, the first page, it says Theme E. That is the extracted goal, word for word, from the goals and objectives that has brought you all to the table today. This is the one that talks about the balance between urban uses and rural land. And then when you start getting down into objective A, B, and C, it talks about expanding that urban area. So side by side with that is an outline. This is extracted directly from the narrative goals so that you can sort of put them together and run your finger down the outline and see the tasks that are before you on this work. And so I'll just say, to start with, again, you all are going to be making a new map. And according to the council direction, you'll be making a map that adds no less than 2,700 acres and no more than 5,000 acres to the urban service area. The council also provides guidance on how to do that, about where the land should be and its relationship to the transportation system. And then once the land is identified, the council wants that land to be master planned to address housing, market rate housing, housing for low-income people, housing for middle-income people, infrastructure, land uses, land uses for residential uses, land uses for job uses. All of that is listed in this goal and these objectives and listed on your outline. But the first task, and the one that we're asking you all to do, is to create the map. And if you don't mind me being direct, there is no negotiation on that at this point. The Urban County Council has said the Planning Commission shall identify. Now, bearing in mind what Tracy Jones said, something else could change on that. but right now this is our task. 2,700 acres, no more than 5,000. And we have the tools to help you all do that. We're not going to do any of that today, but we're going to get into that in the next little bit. So, Mr. Forrester, before I say any more and talk about the little bits that this committee will be getting into, I believe you want to say something about the charge of the advisory committee. Yes, before I say that again, there's food over here. We can't eat that here. So hopefully, either eat it now or take it with you, one way or the other. But please take it. But yes, as Mr. Duncan said, thank you for your presentation. This is the charge of the advisory committee. So the Advisory Committee for the Urban Growth Management Master Plan is charged to providing guidance to the Urban County Planning Commission to aid in the Commission's task of fulfilling Theme E, Goal 3 of the 2045 Comprehensive Plan Goals and Objectives. Working with staff of the Urban County Government, an advisory committee will identify land that can be added to the urban county service area following the guidance from Goal 3 by a date no later than September 26, 2023. 3. After that land is identified, the recommendation of the advisory committee shall be forwarded to the Planning Commission to guide the work of professional consultants to fulfill the remaining tasks of Goal 3 by date no later than October 15, 2024. So as Mr. Duncan just mentioned, we are going to be busy between now and September 26 of 2023. I'll let Mr. Duncan come back up and fill us in on our visit. All right, so goal three, what we're doing, this is sort of the first part with the land identification. And then this will come later through the master planning process. Mr. Forrester's just ready to do the charge. Now, let's talk about what you've agreed to get into here. And all of this is in your packet, by the way, including the charge that Mr. Forrester read you. It's behind the map in your packet, as well as the schedule. So we propose an aggressive schedule because we have no choice. Vice Mayor, you all gave us a deadline that I've never seen the likes of before, but we are going to do our best to meet that. So we have scheduled every Tuesday between now and the end of September to work on this task. As I said earlier, we will be not in these digs, but we'll be more in a roll-up-your-shirt-sleeves environment back downtown starting next week. So just to give you a preview, on August 15th, next Tuesday, we've invited our director of the Division of Water Quality, Charlie Martin, who is responsible for the sanitary sewer program in Lexington. And he has also been overseeing an update to the sewer ability study that council asked for last year to determine what it would take, what is feasible, what is cost effective, what is possible for extending sanitary sewer service outside the existing urban service area. That study is still in draft form and being developed, but we can't wait for the ink to dry. So we're going to go ahead and get started on that, and Charlie will tell us all about that next week. We will not be making a map next week either. It's going to be background from Charlie. I'd also like to get a report from the PVA and just have a conversation about what it means from valuation purposes for having land inside versus outside, from having land that is zoned agriculture versus land that is used for something besides agriculture. So if we can get David O'Neill or some of his representatives, we'll try to get them in. But for sure, we will have the sewer ability report next week. And then we will also be bringing in different inputs. So as I said, we want to hear from Beth Overman. We want to make sure that we understand better when we're looking more at detailed maps, where PDR is and how it interacts with our task. But over the three weeks following the August 15th meeting, 22nd, 29th, and September 5th, we will be putting together the map. And that's where Chris Dorge, with his laptop in the back of the room, comes in. He has got a fully detailed GIS system that has all the layers that I think we can possibly need for this task. Parcel data, topography, PDR location, certainly the roads, all the boundaries, and it's all done by parcel. So we can, environmental areas, floodplain, that sort of thing. So all of that is available to us. And when we do start working on the map, then Chris will have that displayed for us and can address the questions that you have and show what happens when we start tentatively clicking parcels and building that new map. We are scheduling a public input meeting for that map. So on September 12th, we will invite the public to comment on the draft work that you have done because we want to make sure that we're capturing what is of interest to the public as well. And then following that, back to work on September 19th and 26th, we will finish the map. I do believe it's possible that on September 19th you could actually finish that work, depending on how the public reacts to the draft that you have posted. But we built in an extra day just in case. and then along the way we'll be giving updates to the Planning Commission so that they will know where this stands. Following the September 26th date, then at some point very soon, we will present that recommendation from you to the Planning Commission. Now, this is important to note. The Planning Commission needs to set a map for purposes of master planning. They need to be able to give the consultants a new map to say, this is where the new urban land is going to be. So therefore, this is how we need to guide you in the land uses and the infrastructure recommendations and all that you'll be doing. In so doing, and we're working with our law department to make sure we craft that acceptance just right, the urban service area will not expand on September 26th. It will not expand when the Planning Commission says, yes, this is a working draft for purposes of the master plan. Nothing changes. If it's zoned agricultural, it will remain agricultural and will not be eligible from a comprehensive plan standpoint for a zone change. If it's not in the urban service area now, it will not be on September 26th. That map is very much draft. It will very much be a working document. until such time that the Planning Commission, more than a year from now, holds a public hearing to amend the comprehensive plan and adopt a new urban service area map and master plan for that new land. That will all take place sometime in October or November of 2024, a full year plus from now. And then, once the new urban service area and the master plan and the comprehensive plan are all properly in place, then we proceed with that land being available for future development. But your work right now, through September, and even up until the public hearing, does not change the land or the nature of the land or the eligibility of the land for anything other than what it is currently. And if we need to reiterate that, we can do so along the way. I should ask, I'm not giving you much of a choice, but is there any reason that we cannot continue to meet at this time downtown on Tuesday at 10 o'clock and do this work over the next six weeks? You will come and go, of course, and we understand that. and just like some are not here, we'll get them caught up and we'll get you caught up when you come back. But if you are able to commit to most of this, this would be of most importance to the Planning Commission to get this done as quickly and thoroughly as possible. Jim, I was only going to ask about what do we do in case of conflict. Fortunately, I only have one conflict with the dates that you put at this time during the day. How do we deal with those conflicts that I can't miss what I've got? I understand. And, of course, we sprung this on you. Things are moving fast, and to expect that you all would be available all those times is asking a lot. Todd, I would say that the chair may have a different idea, but because you're absent one meeting doesn't disqualify you from participating in subsequent meetings. So I would just encourage you to watch the video, to get the materials, and come back prepared to make whatever statement you need to the next time. Professor Duncan, with the September 12th public input session, I'm guessing and or hoping that that's at a different time so more people from the public can access that meeting. Vice Mayor, we were thinking about that as well and thinking that even though we would use the same day to sort of keep continuity, we would look for a more evening time. I think that's been the council's experience if you want to have good participation. And so we will be looking to hold a meeting elsewhere, but probably one of the government sites, but perhaps in the late afternoon or early evening. And that one, on the 12th, there is a council work session 3 to 5 as well. Also, just for the benefit of the folks in the audience, the folks who will be watching, and for your constituents that you're helping to represent, again, these meetings are open. They are open to the public. The public is invited to attend. The public is invited to reach out to us, to contact us at our website, at our email site. and Rachel checks that all throughout the day. And so any emails that we get that way or through our other planning channels that are related to this, if you send this to the planning mailbox where people ordinarily send zoning items, but it's clear that it's directed to this committee, it will get to this committee. So we will package those up maybe once a week. Chris Taylor, is that what we thought about? And send those out to you all as well as post them so that people can see where the comments that are being made and you all can see them as well. And I'd also believe, as the Vice Mayor was saying, that the public input opportunity will be good to bring people in, perhaps who couldn't necessarily come at this time, but to participate as well and let their feelings be known. We will also have a website, imaginelexington.com, UGM, Urban Growth Management, that will probably be posting these meeting items, the packets, the information, the comments, so all of that is available as well. And I invite you to call Rachel, to call Rachel, you have her email, to call me. Feel free to email me or call me if you've got any questions, and we'll do our best to get you the information you need. I want to reiterate, this is not going to be easy. Even though we have been directed to do this, even though we have specific guidance, even though we have the tools, we have what we need to do this, it's still not going to be easy because this is an emotional issue. This is the most consequential planning project that we have done since 1996, the last time the urban service area was expanded and master planned. They had three years to do it. We had less than a year and a half. So we need to be focused. We need to be listening to each other. We need to be talking with each other, and we certainly need to ensure that we're going to take this work to its conclusion, as the Council has directed us to do. I can tell you that the Planning Commission, of course, will take your recommendation, and that's what it will be. The Planning Commission takes our recommendations on a lot of things, too. But the stronger the recommendation, the more likely the Planning Commission is going to be comfortable with it and not feel like that they have to make their own stamp on it. So that's why we have Planning Commission representation here. We want to do all we can to give the best report to the Planning Commission so that they can keep this project moving and so that we can have a purposeful planning project out of this expansion project. Mr. Chair, I'll be happy to address any questions from you or from the committee. Director Duncan, with the rest of our meeting schedule, are we blocking out two-hour blocks? Yes, sir. 10 to 12. That's a good point, Vice Mayor. I believe 10 to 12 will be enough for us. That's similar to what we did, Judy, with the Goal 4 workgroup. And sometimes that 12 turned into 1220. But I think if we're moving purposefully, people will be all right with that. But, yes, ordinarily 10 to 12 should be what we should do. I'm not sure whether this is the time to bring it up or whether we should wait until next week, but one of the things that we looked at early on in Gulf War was our decision rules. And council and planning commission make decisions by vote. Gulf War work group chose consensus. I've worked with groups that made decisions by consensus minus one, two, or three. Do we have a proposal for how this group will come to decisions? What's a little different, Judy, about that, of course, is we were making multiple decisions about multiple items, about a process, about a map, about a number of things within that process. Here it is the map. And I would absolutely encourage the group to come to an agreement on how they want to do that. Just I will say that whatever map Chris Dorch saves at the end of a workday is not the final map. It gets picked back up the next time we're working, and we erase or we add to it from there. I think that's something to talk about, and perhaps we could finalize at our meeting next week on how we actually reach conclusions on things. I hope we get the decision made rather than get in the middle of this and figure out we haven't decided how we're going to make our decision. Jim, do you want to formally adopt your calendar of meetings? Yes, yes. if you all are comfortable with that. Take a motion. Vote on that. We can't vote on it because we don't have the consensus. Could we do that by consensus, you think? Would that be, or do we need to do a Do you think you won't have a majority? We've got a majority present right now. I think we could go ahead and Now I'll open it up for a motion to accept the meeting dates as proposed subject to looking at the September 12th meeting time. Yes. Changing that based on Vice Chair Wu's statements. Which means meeting on Tuesdays at 10 a.m. in the third floor conference room of the Phoenix building. That's right. Is that with the potential exception of the public input session? Yes. We will look for an appropriate place to hold that public and we will make that announcement once we've identified that, whether it's the council chambers or someplace else that evening. You can always change the time or place if you need to have any of the meetings, but this at least gives you your formal calendar at least through September 26th. Chair, could I suggest that we take up Judy's suggestion first before we do anything else for consistency's sake in terms of how we make decisions as a body? Yes, that's fine. My opinion is we keep it like we do planning and then the council by vote, not by consensus. We're part of an extension of planning and council. Do we have any concern that the committee has an even number of members? We've got, unfortunately, one person dropped off but I won't get into that. Okay so we have 13 then? If what if everyone was here today we have 14. We have 14 now this was big four. So 14 is the head count? So do we have any I mean it may not come up but do we have any contingencies for tie votes? That would be part of the process that we you want to do now. I'm always allowing my legal team over here. Council member Woo, Ms. Jones said we would need a motion on how we would like to do it. So you got any thoughts? What I was advising, it might be best to first discuss whether or not you all want your decisions to be made by vote or by consensus. Consensus is a little more squishy, for a great legal term for you, but, you know, a vote will record every person's vote and how they voted and what, you know, how you got to that. It's a little more firm. And then if you want to discuss how to deal with the tie vote situation, traditionally a tie vote is a failed vote. But you all could set that differently if you'd like since you have even numbers. just would need to discuss it and decide so I guess your first question is you know do you want to make your decisions by vote or by consensus this consensus means just the majority agrees or how does that work exactly the consensus generally doesn't it doesn't have everybody vote so it's just kind of a is everybody okay with this is there's and if nobody speaks up loudly and says no, and I'm looking at Mr. Wilson because he's been our parliamentarian multiple times on the planning committee. But a vote actually, you know, every single person voting yay or nay on one way. There's another modification, it's called concordance. What that means is that you take a vote, if some people disagree, you go back to those individuals again and ask again what is your statement, what is your unreadiness. In other words, you work toward a consensus, but the reality is in a group this size with as much interest, to get everybody to agree on everything is going to be tough, I would say offhand. So I would say offhand that you can do that, but to make sure that people, consensus assumes that if you don't say anything that you agree. That's not the case. Concordance allows people who vote and who do not say anything an opportunity to voice their concerns related to that. So as long as you get the people input, I think you're in good shape to do it either way you want to. And I don't intend to speak at all of your meetings, but I guess I would suggest that for the cleanest record you have, it would be by vote. It makes clear what your committee is doing by numbers. So my recommendation would be you do it the same way you do as a planning commission. I would concur with that. I agree because frankly there might be some split votes and people here although not technically representing constituencies it's community effort but I think some people might like to go on the record as having a dissenting vote or a favorable vote so I would concur with that I always like a less squishy option So we need the floors open then. Somebody will make a motion. Mr. Wilson. Mr. Chairman, I move that we adopt the dates that have been identified here with flexibility. I think he's asking for the motion for how you all want to make your decisions by vote or by consensus. Then I move that we do it by vote. Second. We got a motion in a second. I'm going to do the hand raising deal. All in favor, please raise your right hand. Okay. Motion passes unanimously. All right. That's one step out of the way. So, now in the planning commission, yeah, we do do a tie vote. It's a fail vote. So, I'm not pushing that on anybody, but seeing that we're going down that road, I think we can keep it consistent if it hasn't been any issues. Mr. Wilson, I'm a parliamentarian guru. You know, this has to do more with, for example, you can get a vote and you can come out with a majority. But I'm saying offhand that if we came out with like an eight to six vote, I'd stay here all night to try to get some additional votes. Because the one thing I don't think we want to do is go to the public with a split vote, because that does not lend itself to what I call, and this has nothing to do with parliamentary procedure, it has to do with public relations. So if I see that we're going to have a tie or some kind of that nature, I said bring your blankets and let's bring some pizzas. Let's stay down here until we can iron this out and come out of here with a fairly decent consensus. And I say consensus, a good positive vote. I would add to that in the world I worked in a lot of times we define consensus, to your question, is agree to support. support I may not agree with every element of it but I can agree to support agree to proceed and agree to support right I'm wondering like this might get into nuts and bolts of how we're doing this but are we going to be voting like parcel by parcel or are we going to take one big final vote of a finished draft map, right? Vice mayor that may need to be seen how we actually do our work because that it's possible to do parcel by parcel but also if there is agreement among the group that you're ready to proceed with a collection of parcels, then that may work as well. Bill, that speaks to your point. I'm with you on that public perception and consensus piece, but also given our seven-week timeline, and if we're going to be voting parcel by parcel, it's going to be a slog. If we're unsatisfied with a simple majority vote, And we're trying to get to 14 on every chunk. That might get real messy and long-winded, right? You can set the majority greater than a majority. In other words, you know, there are boards and commissions within the government that have, I realize you all aren't, but you can do this, that have a supermajority on certain votes. In other words, you know, if we're going to acquire this piece of property to preserve it or whatever, out of our numbers, we have to have the majority plus one, or we have to have, you know, you can do that. I'm not suggesting that you do, but that might address, you know, it's going to be a balancing act on this for you guys because of the time frame. You know, that type of situation sometimes leads you to come back and rediscuss. you all may not have as much time to do that in this situation but or you can just leave it as is and see how it goes you know in terms of because you you are gonna have to in order to meet the council's deadline this group and the planning commissioner to be able to make decisions and move forward Are there any concerns about the tie vote being a no? I don't see no heads. I mean, to me, this seems to make sense. We can get down into the weeds of it, but if we get too much in the weeds, we won't get out. We're going to have a lot of time for council. Thank you, Vice Mary Wooden. That's what we're respecting. It's just my opinion. If it's a tie, then it fails in planning. Mr. Chairman, it's 7-7-14. The person that dropped out, have you given any consideration to replacing that individual? Actually, I did my numbers. We did replace them. Oh, you did? we do have 14 mr. Wilson yes oh 14 is the final 14 was fun yeah yes oh okay I appreciate consistency in terms of planning commission and council and kind of how we do our roles to me there's no reason to not be consistent with those rules I think we have consensus. Hey, we've got to take a vote now. Half of you can't leave. I have a question. If we're ready to move on from this topic. Do we need a motion? Do we need a motion? I need to get a motion to accept the tie vote. Oh. Yeah. I move that we adopt a tie vote being defeat. the feet of the motion. Second. Seconded by Mr. Worsham. Any further discussion? Mr. Bill, you have anything? No, I think this. Okay. All in favor, please raise your right hand. Okay. Motion passes unanimously. Thank you, Mr. Johnson. You had something? So in keeping with the discussion, the Vice Mayor, we brought up on the timeline and getting voting parcel by parcel. will we have a starting point? And in my mind, I came in assuming that the starting point in developing the map will be within what the goal for preservation map showed. That work was done. I'm assuming that that might be the starting point, that we will be within that kind of guideline, as a guideline. Some of that, Mr. Johnson, some of that may work, but some of it may not because the council gave, as you see in the goal, they gave guidance as well. Sure. And so that's really what we're going to be starting with, is looking at the road system. That's the biggest guidance that council gave us, was the corridor system and adjacency and contiguity and ownership. So really, the maps may look similar, but we're going to follow the guidance of the council. And I think that's a great, great answer to that question. And so will you all bring to the first meeting, or maybe in advance of the first meeting where we're going to have that discussion, kind of an outline of those roads for everybody to look at and consider and maybe even have that overlaid on that goal 4 map that we can kind of take a look at? And just I don't mean to beat a bird with a chain, Todd, but we are not referring to that goal 4 map. That was – we're starting over again. Fine. So can we get a map in advance of the roads that fit the description outlined in the goals and objectives? Yes, I think we can. We won't do that for next week because we're going to get the sewerability presentation. And then I think once we have that, we can help you define what the roads are that meet the council's criteria. I think that would be very helpful in saving us time to get started on the conversation. Jim cannot just say just just legally I know there's a lot of information out there that was done before the council adopted the goals and objectives but those goals and objectives are the direction here and in fact the goal for report was never adopted by anyone so while there may be information that can feed into some of that from that and from the sustainable growth task force those aren't really the directives because they are what they are their information but they're not they weren't formally adopted but the goals and objectives were so that's kind of the roadmap so to the degree that those other things might provide it inform that they can but they're not adopted documents like the goals and objectives if that makes sense there's some there's been a lot of questions about that and so I just want us to stay track in terms of the comprehensive plan and the goals and objectives that the urban County Council formally adopted as the direction here and to the degree other things are out there that can provide information and inform you all that they can be utilized but they're not directives that were adopted if that makes sense before we move on we need to still got a third item we now take the motion to accept the advisory committee's timeline and schedule now that we have a voting process in place and I hope we don't get a tie vote except it. Open the floor up for a motion to accept the advisory committee proposal and also based on Vice Mayor's Wu's statements on the September 12th meeting we're going to have a different location for the public meetings. So that will be added to the different time and potentially location. And it will not be at 10 a.m. on September 12th. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. All right. Mr. Chairman, I move that we adopt the proposed timeline schedules with flexibility. Okay. Second. I'm going to walk in a second by Mr. Clark. All in favor, please raise your right hand. Okay, motion passes. All right, Mr. Duncan. Okay, you all have been good sports today, and we're looking forward to working with you on this. Rachel will be sending you more information to confirm our meeting location. If you've not been to the third floor of Phoenix building, do prepare for when you come in. You will need to register with the security desk, and he will give you a badge, and we'll get you more information about all of that. Mr. Chair, I'll be glad to take any more questions if we have. Otherwise, I'm certainly happy to turn it back over to you all. Director Duncan, do we have a location firmed up? Yes, the third floor of Phoenix Building. Third, okay. Third floor. It's a big training room that we've got, and Chris Dorage can set up his GIS in there. just are you the one to contact for further information obviously the sewer ability study is one of the principal issues that any expansion faces but there's also things like transportation school considerations EMS fire those kinds of things I don't know how far in the weeds we're going to get but I am I'm assuming that those kinds of questions beyond sewer ability would be presented to you or your staff? John, that's a good point, particularly when you talk about schools, because schools is very interested in this outcome. And so they want to be a part of this. A lot of that will come more in the master planning process than the land identification. That's not to say that they're not important inputs, and if they have something to say, we'll be glad to take it. But I believe that within our own GIS, we have the information you need to make these early decisions. But if there's something that you're feeling you're lacking, please, yes, let me know, and we'll do our best to get it. And would some of that include economic analysis of the cost of those services and the like? Certainly the sanitary sewer service. We will know what the economics of those are. Okay. Well, then I'll probably be bugging you. Okay. Certainly. Now Jim does everybody have your email? If they don't we'll make sure you do. Make sure you get it. Jim, on that point with the transportation cabinet and what they're doing on road improvements, is that high enough level given the parameters that we've been given that that might need to be part of that initial update that's coming? Andy, I think that's a good point. Particularly on some of our corridors there are even widening projects. projects. So it would be good to know what some of those are and we can absolutely get that information to you as part of you're making these decisions. Yes. Turn it back to you, Mr. Chair. Well, we might be the fastest meeting we're going to have. I'm pretty sure. But again, I want to thank everybody for coming. again Mr. Duncan and your staff appreciate everything that you've done up to this point and we're definitely going to rely on you going forward and also the members each of you were basically chosen based on your expertise and your knowledge and your footprint here in Lexington so I'm looking forward to hearing from you looking forward to learning from you but also collectively looking to come together and seeing what we can do and do the right thing And that's the key, right? You try to do the right thing. So when we get out of here, we're feeling okay. That's the best advice that I can give you. But I won't hold you up now. And I'll thank you. And, again, we'll see you next week. Appreciate you coming. Thank you. Thank you. All right.