Music Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. ¶¶ ¶¶ ¶¶ Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, good afternoon everyone. Good evening. It's 6 o'clock. And I'd like to call this meeting to order. We're in our public meeting on the Urban Growth Master Plan. This is September 12, 2023. Just a few housekeeping notes. If you are standing up, you must be seated. If not, you need to move in the direction of the mezzanine area. We cannot do the fire issues. We need everyone to step outside in the mezzanine area if you are standing. If you are sitting down, you are okay. Okay, thank you. This meeting is for the public to speak. There would not be any questions from the committee as a whole. We are here to listen and hear concerns or voice no concerns, but we're here to listen today only. Also, we do have a timer. We have the timer here. It would be three minutes per person. And on top of that, I'm going to make sure we covered everything here. I think so. and as you step up to the podium just please state your name you don't have to state your address if you choose not to that's your choice but just please state your name and we do have folks out in the mezzanine area that would like to speak they will have an opportunity to speak as well we will start marching them up and they will go one by one in order to the podium so with that being said Mr. Duncan, staff Thank you, Mr. Chair, and welcome to the committee. Tonight we're going to be taking public comment on the work of the advisory committee over the past several weeks. We do have some background to provide to help us understand why we're here tonight and the purpose of this meeting. First of all, tonight is not the only opportunity to express concerns to the committee. Our visitors, we encourage them to continue to follow us on our Imagine Lexington website, to visit the QR code, and to submit an email if you want to at imagine at lexingtonky.gov. You can also submit your emails to the traditional planning email of planningmailbox at lexingtonky.gov. We will make sure that any comments received in writing are transmitted to the committee. So the reason that we're here tonight is in response to the work of the Urban County Council earlier this summer. As part of their statutory requirement to adopt the goals and objectives for the comprehensive plan, the Urban County Council established a specific goal and objective related to expansion of the urban service boundary, Particularly in theme E of the comprehensive plan, which talks about the balance between urban development and rural development, the urban county council made some directions to the planning commission regarding expansion. Goal 3 itself, the Council identified a critical need for more land for housing and jobs. And in four objectives, the Council described or directed that the Planning Commission identify no less than 2,700 acres and no more than 5,000 acres to add to the urban service area to address the needs identified in the goal. In Objective B, the Council said that the land should be capable of meeting the infrastructure requirements while ensuring that Lexington remains the horse capital of the world. In Objective C, the Council said this should be done as part of a master planning process to ensure that the land is properly planned and that the expansion and the master plan shall be completed by December 1st of 2024. And then the final objective in that goal states that once the land has been expanded and once the master plan has been adopted as an amendment to the comprehensive plan, then a new process to address how land in the future should be brought into the urban service area will be completed. So to help the Planning Commission with this work, Planning Commission Chair Forrester formed an advisory committee representing the professional interests affected by the Council's direction, including affordable housing, economic development, building construction, horse farms, agriculture, academics, and four members of the Urban County Council and three members of the Planning Commission. The committee began their work in early August and has held five meetings every Tuesday to consider the Council's charge and how they can best advise the Planning Commission. They took a number of inputs from the council, but then also from the staff, including a report from the Division of Water Quality on the updated sanitary sewer study on the left that indicates where sanitary sewer service can be more efficiently provided in expansion areas, and also estimates the cost for those services. In addition, the committee took input from the Purchase of Development Rights Program, which talked about the PDR program, but also other conserved lands, and the purpose of the PDR program, as well as what having a PDR farm means for future development. With the Sewerability Study and the PDR inputs, the committee also considered the other guidance from the Urban County Council to make their recommendations. So over several meetings and looking at several opportunities, the committee has settled on five areas of consideration, while prioritizing one area as the primary area of focus. There are two areas on the western side of the urban service area, two areas on the eastern side, and then a larger area on the east-central part of the urban service area. In particular, Area A on the west side at Manowar Boulevard, Parker's Mill, Bowman Mill, following along property lines and coming in around Dunbar High School, Area A is 515 acres. Area B in the same vicinity on the north side of the inside of Manowar, bisected by Parker's Mill Road, following property lines around the Wellesley neighborhood and the city's Cardinal Run North Park, and then following the urban service area in the back of the Beaumont area. Area B is 393 acres. Area C, the prioritized area on the east-central portion of town. At the southern split, following Interstate 64, and then picking up Royster Road, down to Winchester Road, jogging over to North Cleveland Road, following property lines until it intersects with the urban service area in the vicinity of the Greenbrier neighborhood. following around on Winchester Road, back up around Hume Road and meeting with Interstate 75, and back up to Interstate 64. Area C includes the rural settlements of Uttinger Town and Columbus and is 3,041 acres. Area D on the eastern side of town, following Athens Boonesboro and Interstate 75. This is the Childsburg neighborhood on the edge of the urban service area and the Brenda Cowan Elementary School, which is not in the urban service area. Area D is 641 acres. And then the final area in the same vicinity on the other side of Interstate 75, on the east side of Interstate 75 at Cane Break Drive, just north of the Blue Sky Rural Activity Center, following along Cane Break with properties between Cane Break and Interstate 75, and then two properties that are adjacent to and just south of Todd's Road, adjacent to the urban service area in the vicinity of Polo Club Boulevard. Area E is 497 acres. So following tonight's public input, the committee will consider what they hear tonight, what they receive in writing, and other inputs that they have received over the course of this work to address the final maps over the next two meetings, September 19th and September 26th. Both of those are Tuesdays. Those meetings will be at 10 o'clock, and just like all of the other meetings, these will be open to the public. The difference is the September 19th and 26th meetings will be held in the council chambers rather than in the Phoenix building, but at 10 o'clock and they will be open to the public. The Planning Commission will then consider the committee's recommendation over meetings in October in order to inform their next action. And that will be then to start on the master planning process for the new land. So once the new land is identified, the Planning Commission will bring in a consultant, and they will begin working together over the next year to create the master plan for the land in order to meet the Council's deadline of December 1, 2024. It's important to note that the actions of this committee in recommending new land for the urban service area will not change the boundary of the urban service area. The actions of the Urban County Council to turn that land over to the consultants for consideration will not change the urban service area. So nothing about the urban service area changes until the Planning Commission adopts the completed master plan and the final boundary as an amendment to the 2023 comprehensive plan. And that is scheduled to take place late in 2024. So, Mr. Chair, members of the committee, that is a quick rundown on what the work you all have been doing for the past month, leaving 5,087 acres identified for consideration for expansion of the urban service area with Area C in the central portion as the priority area. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Duncan, thank you for your presentation. This is time for public input. You can do so by stepping up to the podium one at a time if you so choose. Mr. Chairman, I'm Dick Murphy. I had some discussions before. I have three separate sets of clients and asked for some additional time to represent each one of those. I'm here tonight to talk about three particular pieces of property. They're all in areas D and E under your new numbering system. First one, they are all compact and contiguous, and they will not cost the government money to develop. The first one is the property at 5085 Athens Boonesboro Road, which is in area D, Athens Boonesboro, I-75. It has 232 acres. I represent Encore Properties, the owner. They've owned it about 13, 14 years out here. Our property meets all the criteria to come in the urban service boundary. Our property is at the corner here. The guest property is next to us as well on this property. Basically, two owners have this property. The 2023 sewerability study confirmed that this property would be sewerable, that there's sufficient capacity in the system to handle it. Our property and the guest property are adjacent to the urban service boundary. The roads already exist out here. If you took the bus tour, you know from living in Lexington, Athens-Boonesboro Road is a four- or five-lane divided highway with turn lanes. The road is there, which has the frontage of these properties. The property is ready to be developed by the owners and we're the Encore property is is we'll work with the guest property to make sure that access points are coordinated that sewers are coordinated as well. We're ready to go now. As I said my clients have owned this for about 13 or 14 properties. They know there's a sewer on the property. They've had preliminary discussions with design teams from across the United States that have done large mixed-use acclaimed developments for urban development. Those consultants are very eager to work on this property. They've told us that this would be ideal for a planned unit mixed-use development. They feel that they can do this with a walkable, bikeable community. They feel that this can be a lasting sense of community. Last is the cost of sewers. Our cost of sewers will be zero here. The sewer is in the ground now, a 10-inch sewer line, the one that took off the Blue Sky development, that is built. The private property owners will be responsible for all other sewers coming in here. Similarly, the private property owners will be responsible for all the roads that are built in this area as well. There will be no cost to the taxpayers. on this property. It is there, it is sewerable, we will cooperate with our neighbors in developing this. There will be no cost for roads. We will build the roads, we will build the sewers. This is ideally suited and it's available now. It can serve the gap for new properties coming in. I'll go to my next property. I note that in D and E, I got a flyer today from Fayette Alliance as I came in, giving the development costs to this property. D and E together were one quarter of the cost of the other development, one thirtieth the cost of Area C, according to Fayette Alliance. But Fayette Alliance is wrong. We'll be zero here as well. In D and E, I'm representing the Germond family. Doug Germond is with me, who has owned this property for 100 years, right next to the three-story apartment complex you probably visited in the bus today. We are adjacent to the Garden Estates apartment complex right here. There was some discussion last week about not wanting to bring the urban service boundary outside I-75. It's been outside I-75 in this location for over 25 years. We're adjacent to it here, and we're adjacent to apartment complex. There's single-family townhomes, Polo Club Boulevard, as well as Todd's Road, give us good circulation on the property. Again, the Germans will work with their neighbors to develop this property. There will be no cost to the city because this area did not need to be in the serability study, and that's because this is one of those areas Mr. Martin has talked to you about, that this is achieved by putting a more efficient location for the pump station on the property. Development of this property here will result in a new pump station to be built by private developers. It will take offline one or two pump stations upstream from it. So it will be more efficient, be a new pump station paid for by private developers. All the rest of the sewers on the property will be paid for by private developers. Again, if there's any improvements needed for Todd's Road, they'll be paid by the private developers, and they'll pay for all the sewers and the connections to those properties. I'm going to go on to my last property here, which is the property next to the Germond property, the Clark property, which is located at 4582 Todd's Road. Again, the same points about the Germond property. These will be served by one sanitary sewer pump station, which will be paid for by private builders, which will also take offline one or two existing pump stations upstream. So it will be a benefit to the city, no additional cost. Mr. Martin was asked about this two weeks ago. Charlie Martin was asked about it. He said, I think I can quote, there will be no burden to us, the urban county government, no burden to us. We're trading pump stations. As he said, we're trading one pump for another. We may actually be taking two off, not one off here on the property. Again, my clients will pay for it, my clients. The Clark family, I'm just starting my third three minutes. I'll go one more minute, if that's okay, Mr. Chairman. Go to the next one. Okay, this is the last one. This is the third one, the last one. My clients will pay for the pump station here. Again, they are experienced developers. Marion Clark and her sister have developed the home place subdivision here in Lexington, which is off Deerhaven Lane where the St. Jude house has been built the last four years. They developed it themselves. They've provided houses for 1,200 dwelling units over the last four years. They're experienced developers. They want to develop. They're willing to develop. They work with the German family to coordinate all connections and all new sewers on this. Again, these properties in D&E will not have to wait for development or infrastructure to be built by the city. It will be built by the private developers and can be built now. We thank you very much for your attention to this. Thank you. Okay, thank you, Mr. Murphy. Before we get up, the fire marshal just let me know that everyone that's standing up, this is crazy, You either can go outside or sit back in your seats and then come up one by one. So it's kind of like it's your option. But the standing is an issue. Yeah. Could you just write down people's names? Yeah. Yes. We're going to get the names. Go ahead and get the names up front. Yeah, he's coming. Thank you. Okay. Okay. All righty. So hopefully we got that housekeeping taken care of. packed house. Just one other thing I want to mention. Mr. Murphy was representing three clients and he had asked earlier for those three minutes per the clients that he was representing in case anyone was asking the question about that. So yes sir. Hi my name is Doug Germond and my family and I own 125 acres off of Todd's Road which is in section E on the map. Like I said, it's been in my family for over 100 years, and over time my family's kind of got dispersed across the country, and we were very interested in trying to move forward with that property, especially since it is contiguous with the existing urban county services. In fact, as Dick had even mentioned, there's been a three-story apartment complex built literally within 50 feet of the property. One thing that family and I have talked about is if we do move forward, or if it is accepted into the Urban County Services is that we will make sure there would be no cost to the city for any type of improvements, whether it's sewer or roads or anything that would come up. That would be part of the stipulation of moving the property forward. So I just wanted to spend a few minutes to kind of share kind of what that particular property is. And it's been a lot to us and our family, but it's come to the point now that we are ready to move forward. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Hold up. Hold up. Hold up. Good evening. My name is Zach Cato. I'm an attorney at Billings Law Firm. I'm here tonight representing the owner of Del Ridge Farm, which is located in the prioritized area within the southeast boundary. Delridge Farm supports its location within the prioritized area, requests that it stays in, it wants to be brought into the urban service boundary there in Area C, and that's 4092 and 4200 Winchester Road. So that's all I have to say for Delridge Farm. Thank you for the opportunity to speak and for your service on this committee. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Dean. My name is Dean Pulsifer. I live near Area B, so most of my comments are on Area B. My biggest concern there is Parker's Mill. It really needs to be expanded. Put some bike lanes in and worry about the pinch point where it goes under New Circle Road because if you put Grove B, that place will get a lot of traffic. The other question we had is Roswell Drive today goes through the back of Beaumont and just ends. Would the plan be to continue that? So that's something else that needs to be considered for Area B as it's on the backside of Beaumont. and it's probably too early to discuss this now, but a concern is what types of zones would you put there? Would there be any professional zones? Would it be all residential? I don't know if that's considered at this time, but that's something that is considered later in the process. Overall, I think the expansion is okay. I mean, Lexington is a growing place. As long as you consider the impacts to the areas around it and make sure you plan for effective growth. Right. So that's it. Thank you. Greg Elam. Thank you for the opportunity. I'm near Delridge Farm. Our address is 3740 Winchester Road. I'm Greg Elam. I've been there 68 years. My sister, Diane Holleran, and her husband, Bill Holleran, is here. They've been there, Diane's been there 71 years. The farm was purchased in 1950 by her parents, and if y'all, I understand y'all took a tour today. The majority of the people that's been around Lexington know where Elam Village is. My dad had a vision years ago about affordable housing, and that's how Elam Village came about. and the way that happened was in 56 he built the first house built it for a tenant farmer and everybody that worked at the army depot was stopping wanting to rent it so he said wait a minute i'm gonna start building some more houses there wasn't any zoning laws he was a home builder so uh he just kept right on going we have five on winchester road and the other 10 back off of Winchester Road on private drive. So the he kind of it's always been affordable and it's still affordable out of all those houses. The original 90 acres we have 19 single family homes now. We planted that Elam Village in 1984. And went through all the hoops and put them all on acre to acre and a half lots. We had 67 acres left of the farm with the original home place on it, and we put that into 10 acre lots in 97 before the 40 acre deal. We're not an operating farm, so to speak. Got a nephew that raises pumpkins. A lot of people know about the pumpkin patch out there. everything like that but we are for this expansion and uh the there's too many obvious things going on with the improvement of winchester road going to four lane they're taking one of our elam village homes to realign elam village and to have a u-turn area So, you know, I know people's against it. I was a home builder 40 years, spent 20 years with Lexington Fire Department. You know, everything's in place. You've got hospital, you've got schools under construction. In that area of sea, not that many farms are going to be put out. You all drove around, you saw. There's not that many horse farms going to be put out. And most of them, I think, are for it. Thank you for letting me speak. Thank you. Lori Williams. Hi, I'm Lori Williams. I'm a notary public. I drive all over Kentucky. I talk to people in million-dollar homes and homes that cost less than $100,000. People in Lexington that I talk to, they offer this up to me. They don't want to see a lot of development anymore in Lexington. They like Lexington. I came from Annapolis, Maryland, that was going through what Lexington is going through now. Build, build, build. Their water system failed. Their sewage system failed. Their electrical system was on the verge of failing. I'm concerned about the water sources for Lexington. I'm concerned about the sewage systems for Lexington with all this planned growth. Kentucky has the highest child abuse in the nation and for Fayette County the lowest performing schools. Half the schools in Fayette County fail just standardized testing and we want to bring more people in. We need to warn them. The school system fails and I'm tired of having my taxes increased every year when every year I don't see any improvements in the school system. Building new schools are great, but we also have a teacher shortage going on. Where are these teachers going to come from? I don't understand. If you're going to allow the growth to happen, fix the building codes. Everyone talks about climate change, and your codes aren't raised up to increase insulation and stuff like that. your roads in Annapolis. The developers built, the roads stayed the same, and you had continuing traffic problems. You try and drive on New Circle and some of the side roads, you can't get around now. What is Lexington going to do to make sure that there is logical traffic flow? It's great Winchester's going to go to a four-lane highway, but Polo Club is four-lane now. You've got two hospitals planned in that area and a middle school and man of war is still one lane and if you go there on the weekends all you see is traffic backup the low income houses is a great idea i went you guys have this thing where you could go and see the plan for lexington more walking to stores and everything i don't see site c is a good place for that there's not a kroger out there the nearest shopping center is Hamburg, and these people, if they're low income, they're not going to be able to drive to Hamburg to go shopping if they're built over on C. B and D, I see it. A and B, I see it. But property C, I don't see it with what you guys say you want to put in there. Thank you. Thank you. Steven Webb. Hello, I'm Stephen Webb, and I live on Parker's Mill Road. But first of all, I live in Lexington. And I guess part of my concern about the city is I'm all about growth. You know, every city has to grow. But watching the urban growth over the years, if you fly into Lexington, it's really shocking if you look down and look at the urban sprawl. In my family, we developed, we had farmland, we developed commercial development. So I'm familiar with the fact that everyone wants to do the math on the urban sprawl. I've got this many acres. I can build this many lots. This is the math. This is how much I'm going to make. But I think we need to build up and not out. And I had a residence in San Diego, for example, and I watched that city over several years and the things that they initiated. it and they did mixed use affordable housing and they built some beautiful buildings inside the city that had different types of economic income people living there. So you had artists who didn't have a lot of money and I think people think oftentimes low income means bad people and that's not true. So I think we need to really consider how we expand the urban service area in Lexington and try to focus on how do we improve what we currently have in the downtown Lexington area. And so related to B and A, living on Parker's Mill, Parker's Mill Road is a two-lane road. Part of that is residential. It's like the Indianapolis Speedway. There's hardly no policing on that road. Speed limit's 35. People drive 90 miles an hour. I live there. Walk to the mailbox. You feel like you're going to get run over. We've got Cardinal Run Park South. Now we have Cardinal Run Park North coming. I talked to them about the egress on Parker's Mill. They said, well, with Cardinal Run Park North, we couldn't do anything with our sales roads, so all that traffic has to come on Parker's Mill. You have Lexington School, you're going to have two parks, and you have all the development that's already existing in Jessamine County, Harrodsburg Road. So if you've driven down Parker's Mill, two-lane road, you know what the traffic is like. And even if you develop B&A and say, well, all that traffic can egress on Man of War, you're still going to have it. You're still going to add to the traffic problem in Parker's Mill. And I'll echo what the previous lady mentioned, that the traffic is so bad in Lexington, I can get around easier in San Diego than I can in Lexington, Kentucky. So hopefully that can be addressed at some point in the future. But thank you for your time and appreciate your opportunity to make comments. Thanks. Thank you. We have Don Pratt and after Don is Bob Crutcher. Excuse me. It must be said the reality is we all have blinders on. The goal of this body and what you are called to do is a set of blinders. We all see the reality of the world, which is far more important than your set of blinders. Our nation, our state, our world sees an ongoing damage called global warming or climate change. As a kid, my dad told me that if the Chinese adults and individual adults got up and started their car every morning, all humans would be extinct shortly. That's true today. And yet we go on as human beings thinking that we can keep and work with vehicles that are expanding much more pollution, either through what they cover on the land or their emissions, especially diesels. politicians are pushing automobile expansion and creation even unrealistic as feel good notions of their new electric cars it's not a solution it's blinders with fine highways and houses we covered the land was the words that were sung in my young days of folk music Well, I was in my teens and 20s. Some here have bonders on regarding property and their land. Another understandable concern as it is their investment. Builders and contractors, banks, corporations, many have self-centered investments. But for the future, this has to stop. We cannot keep wearing blinders, an example that should not be for our state, for our nation, and for our world. Take the blinders off to stop more destruction. We have to save our earth and its resources. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Bob. Nicole Hudson is next. My name's Bub Crutcher. I've been in this area in business for over 42 years. I own a piece of property on Athens Boonesboro Road that was originally a big valley that was a purely useless piece of property. The contours were so rough that, but because of the location very close to I-75, it only made sense if it was leveled up, it could be used for something other than nothing. And with 25 years of work, I've personally bulldozed and pushed every load of dirt and have made that piece of property look, to me, really great. I've got three entrances that are already paved, state approved, off the highway there, 2418. And that property is surrounded by commercial uses. Right next to the old Waffle House, the motels, and the ballpark, it's lit up like daylight. This morning I glanced down there at 6.30 in the morning, the lights was on. You couldn't even see the cars coming for not figuring out what light you were looking at. It's surrounded by commercial uses, and it's a natural place to be developed. And it is sewerable just the way it is. It has a sewer on the agricultural property that serves five businesses. and that thing, I go up there every day of the week and check it to see if it's working. It shouldn't be my responsibility. I've talked to Charlie Martin. We've had meetings with him probably six or eight times. And if I don't wake up some morning, I don't know who's going to take care of it. And I've proven on paper, because it used to be a big valley, now it's all built up nice it can be gravity flow not one piece not one electric meter or nothing it'll run day and night without an electric motor or nothing and I've offered pay for part of that and it's feasible and it's on paper I have copies of letters I've given before and I would like to hand them out again. I'm a little short on them, but I realize y'all aren't looking at that property, but we're just talking about approximately 50 acres that's useless right now. Not good for anything except for travelers passing by wondering why something's not there. I appreciate it. Thank you. Nicole Hudson and Catherine Hudson. My name is Nicole Hudson and I'm here from Brookfield Farm where we live and my husband works as the farm manager. Where development goes, farming dies. Whether we admit it to ourselves or not, it is the way it has played out in communities across this country since the beginning and remains true to this day. There is so much more at stake here than just pretty landscapes, which are both beautiful and economically important, but it has to be said again and again. Once this precious land is spent, there is no coming back from it and there is no more to be had. When you develop an area, you do a lot more than just throw up some buildings or move in a few more people and the impact is far more detrimental to agriculture and the surrounding environment than developers would want you to realize. The increases in both people and traffic create more pollution, which then causes lasting damage to the soil and creeks we rely on to feed our herd and grow our crops. And we're not the only ones who use these vital resources. Just on Brookfield and the surrounding area, the land teems with wildlife like wild turkey, deer, bald eagles, black bears, blue herons, bobcats, and more. Overdevelopment and urbanization of the land directly adjacent to environmentally sensitive areas like farms and the Boone Creek National Historic District, which Brookfield contributes to with over 950 acres under conservation easement, will cause major damage to crop yields, livestock health, and the ability for our wildlife to thrive in ways that are, all too often, not able to be effectively mitigated as time goes on and the damage surpasses what all the developer-paid-for reports said it would be. Yet, despite strong public comment opposed to expansion and in defiance of data that shows thousands of acres still available for development inside the city and already set up with necessary infrastructure that will cost the city and taxpayers millions to set up in rural areas, Council has made the rash decision to completely turn the incredibly successful urban services boundary concept on its ear. While that cannot be undone, you have the opportunity to minimize the damage created by their choices. We, as farmers and residents of these beautiful and historic rural areas under threat, hope the Planning Commission will take a data-driven, measured approach to this expansion and not immediately junk to bring every available acre into the USB for no other reason than you can and developers want you to. Please consider not only the areas being brought into the USB, but what they're adjacent to and the damage you will cause by proxy in those areas. Property should only be considered that is not in direct proximity to environmentally sensitive areas like working farms, conservation areas, and or historic districts like Boone Creek. What you do today will echo for generations, so please take a moment to really think about the long-term effects and do what is truly right for all of Fayette County now and in the future. Thank you. Thank you. Catherine. And Bob Quick is next. My name is Kat Hudson, and I'm a junior at Henry Clay and Locust Trace. Being that I go to school in the city but live in the country, I have a unique opinion on this topic. That opinion being that urbanization is good for a season. The world's population is at 8 billion, and that number will only continue to grow, and we need a place to house all these people. That's where cities come in. Build buildings high in the sky and stack people on top of each other. Or build neighborhoods where the houses are only a couple inches apart. Make it so people can walk to the grocery store from their house. Build businesses that will employ thousands and recreational events for family fun. Build cities that expand and expand and expand to no end. And at the end of the day, go home and sit down for a nice home-cooked meal. Except, what if there was no food on your plate? What would you do? Would you go to the grocery store, go get takeout? What if nowhere has food? That's what happens when we take away farmland. Food doesn't just appear. It's the product of hard work done by few on many acres. Protecting farmland doesn't just protect a few people who still enjoy that way of life. It protects the entire world, because the entire world eats as well as enjoys so many other benefits from the agriculture industry. The USB has been expanded, but it's not like the world is going to run out of food tomorrow or anywhere close. However, if you slow down and take the time to carefully consider where you expand into, you can protect farms that have been around for generations, in turn protecting many generations to come. I know you can't take any less than 2,700 acres, and at least from my understanding, areas A, B, D, and E don't meet that qualification. But I hope you can find a way to have more options than harming farmland. Thank you, and y'all have a blessed night. Thank you. Thank you. Carla Blanton is next after Bob Quick. My name is Bob Quick. I'm the president and CEO of Commerce Lexington. Let me first thank the committee for the time you are investing in a thoughtful review of expansion land to recommend to the Planning Commission. You are tasked with recommending land that can be efficiently developed and makes economic sense for the community. If we have an opportunity to add land to help with jobs, housing, and address infrastructure system improvements like the consent decree, please don't arbitrarily set a minimum number of 2,700 acres when in actuality you need 4,000, 4,500, or that 5,000, which is required. There are economic advantages to growth along the interstate corridors. We've been talking about the I-75 and I-64 corridors for decades. The limited areas identified on the maps along Winchester Road and Athens-Boonesboro Road are sewerable, have adequate infrastructure, and are in areas with limited impact on the PDR farms. Both are in the strategic location best suited for housing and jobs. Schools are already in both areas. Two major hospitals are adding hundreds of jobs in this area near the Winchester Road corridor. There are also willing sellers in both corridors to ensure the land does not sit idle. Commerce Lexington represents 2,000 business members. The top concerns that we hear from local employers about being here in Lexington are finding workers, finding land for their business to grow, and housing availability for their workforce. Through this process, this committee has taken the next step in helping our community address all three of those challenges and affordable housing as well. Let me be clear, no one in the business community wants to destroy what makes Lexington special. Our iconic horse industry is important and we support efforts to protect this land and we always have. We will also support infill and redevelopment policies to create housing and jobs. However, there is less than 4% of vacant land, developable land, inside the urban service area. The pressure is real. The pressure is growing. Lexington has lost eight business projects to the region in recent years. We almost lost them from the region as well. But the eight business projects to the region in recent years, because we didn't have the sites or the buildings, our minimum home prices have skyrocketed 100% in the last decade. On behalf of Commerce Lexington, I urge you to look at all the land that can be efficiently developed and makes economic sense for the community. Please don't let an arbitrary minimum number of 2,700 stop you if more acres are required to address housing, jobs, and sewer ability infrastructure issues. Thank you. Thank you. Carla Blanton and Jim Coleman is next after Carla Blanton. Good evening. I'm Carla Blanton. I'm a board member with Lexington for Everyone. We're here today because of the Council's overwhelming 13 to 2 vote that Lexington must bring more land into the urban service area for it to be a thriving community. Lexington for Everyone urges the work group not to fall short of that goal by simply doing the minimum. All land identified as appropriate by the planning staff deserves your full consideration, especially the land that the majority of this work group initially voted to include. It's It's interesting to hear and read comments that are critical of both the pace and the process. It's interesting because it's almost 30 years in the making. It's interesting because it is being informed by studies regarding our sewers, infrastructure, and housing needs, and many other data points. Headlines are filled with statistics of people being priced out of the market. We want them to work here, save lives here, care for our vulnerable family members, teach the next generation. but we don't have room for them to live here. When I was working on these remarks last week, I had written down that the median home price in Lexington was $322,000. That's already out of date. It's now $344,000. That puts home buying, which is the best way to build generational wealth, out of reach for a majority of Lexingtonians. More than 67,000 households in Fayette County earn the median income, which means they are able to afford a maximum home price of $240,000. In July, there were fewer than 50 homes listed for sale in the entire county at that amount. This shouldn't be surprising because we consistently have been building about one-third of the housing that a 2017 study recommended Lexington needed to meet demand. But these aren't just headlines. they're the lived experiences of people who want to call Lexington home but can't afford it. We want good paying jobs but we have very little land to recruit and retain those jobs. That reality, along with the fact that Lexington has actually lost population, lost population, puts in jeopardy the services and amenities that make our community so special. Thank you for your willingness to volunteer for this task. You were selected because each of you represents an important segment of our community that makes us better. But I also hope that as you put that input, as you provide that input based on your perspective, you will also consider the experiences of all segments of Lexington. We can only move forward as a community if we move forward together. Thank you. Thank you. Jim Coleman. And before Jim, there's Price Healy and Price Bell. Are you one of the same? Okay, that's fine. So Price Healy is after Jim Coleman. Thank you. Vice Chair, Mayor Wu, and to all of our council members and all of our committee members, it is a pleasure to be here this evening. My name is Jim Coleman. I'm the owner of Coleman Crest Farm. It's a 135-year-old farm out in Uttinger Town off of Roister Road. My great-grandfather purchased the farm on March 27, 1888. Before he purchased the farm, he had been a slave on this farm. And then he served in the Union Army to get his freedom, and then he came back home as a sharecropper. And then after that, in 1888, he got a loan from the Union Benevolent Society of $1,200 to be able to buy this beautiful farm. Over the last 135 years, over 300 of his descendants, including myself, were able to go to college as a result of this farm. Jane's and Lucy Coleman are buried on this farm, my grandparents are buried on this farm, and I want to let you know tonight that this farm would never be for sale because I would never sell it. So therefore it's not a piece of land that would be open for developing. Coleman Crest Farm today is a certified organic farm that adheres to all natural, non-chemical production processes to produce the best produce we believe in the market. My neighbors up and down the road in Roster Road, they have the same perspective that I have. And they believe that it's a very historic, beautiful road. We love our farms out there. And along with 72% of the residents of Fayette County, they also agree that expanding the zone is not going to be the best choice for us to move forward. Therefore, the inflated projection of 2,798 acres of developable land that you've stated in your study in study area C is inaccurate. The Urban Growth Management Plan Advisory Committee's proposal to expand Fayette County's urban service boundaries is an example of urban sprawl, which is the wrong strategy for the expanding and existing availability of housing for our future residents and our existing residents. Urban sprawl is an outdated failed urban planning model of the past that takes place over a large rural area and creates low-density environments with the high segregation between residential and commercial areas. Urban sprawl will create a wide array of serious problems for Fiat County. Number one, the increased need for costly new sewers. Some folks have already said, well, the developer's going to pay for it. I just built a new house on my farm and I had to bring in about five new truckloads of fresh soil to make sure that the septic tanks would be appropriate. So I know it has a cost. The increased strain on our existing transportation infrastructure caused an increased traffic and congestion. It will also generate a vast disruption to our environment due to the potential contamination of our soil and groundwater. I just put in a brand new well on the farm. It's 160 feet deep, and it could be contaminated with the wrong types of development that would be going on. So as you can tell, I have a certain opinion that would say I want to protect Uttinger Town, and I'm not for the expansion of the zone. Thank you, Mr. Coleman. Good time. Thank you. Price Healy, then Price Bell. Good evening. I'm Price Healy. I'm here with my brothers Ward Healy and Hal Healy. We have a farm out on 2850 Parker's Mill. It's been in our family for over a century. It's split by Manowar. Manowar bisects our farm there off of Parker's Mill. So it actually shows up on what are now areas A and B on our property split, bisected by that. We Headley brothers are here tonight so that the committee knows that we'd like to be included in the urban service area. and we would commit to developing it in a timely manner, not sit on it as others have for so long. The problem is that this property is actually now urban in character. It is increasingly difficult to farm it in a responsible manner. And here's just a few things you probably noticed on your bus tour today. Our farm is directly adjacent to a senior living complex in Pine Needles, also adjacent to Beaumont neighborhood, also adjacent to the Cardinal Run City Park and across the street from the future Cardinal Run North Park. Now I point out the parks because we've seen the city talk a lot recently about wanting to ensure that everyone in Lexington can live within just a short walk to park areas. Well you can't get much closer than if you allow residences literally right next door to what would be one of the city's largest and most active park complexes. So we're about About 600 feet outside of New Circle Road in Manowar actually bisects our farm. Beaumont already has a local street stubbed in that was stubbed in when it came online over 20 years ago as an example. It's connected right next to the Urban Service area on a couple of sides there. Not surprisingly, Area B on this map ranked as the number one area to consider in the committee's scoring matrix. Our property in particular would be one of the easiest to develop without impacting the taxpayers or other farmland. We truly are the last wedge of pie that is surrounded by development and roads on literally all sides. We have had lots of conversations with the Bells about ways that we could also best and most efficiently provide necessary sewer infrastructure for our combined properties to be developed. And when you consider ours and the Bell Properties together, we actually make up 98% of Area A. So, you know, we personally think this is a dream scenario for city officials to be able to master plan when you're only dealing with two families rather than dozens of families in some other areas. The reality is that traffic's already urban levels today on Manowar and Parker's Mill, as was referenced earlier. This will increase with the new park. We think allowing this expansion in this area allows for Parker's Mill to be improved, which it desperately needs now, not just will need even more in the future. We've already had four cars plow through our fences already this year alone. If you sit on our property, you'd hear more kids laughing and screaming than you'd hear a horse's neighing. You'd see more baseball field lights and car lights than you'd see crops. So we think our property provides an excellent opportunity for the city to expand without controversy and are more than willing to work with city planners to build uses in for Lexington's comprehensive plan and future master plan expansion area. Thank you so much. Thank you. John Larson, Seth and Price Bell. Thank you, committee. My name is Price Bell. I live at 211 Chenault Road in Lexington. I'm here to represent and speak on behalf of my family's Millridge Farm. farmed started by my grandmother on land we have worked for generations. On this map, we own the vast majority of Area A, nearly 350 acres. I'm here to state publicly that we support and encourage the inclusion of Area A in the urban service area and are prepared to actively work with our community to create a place we are proud to call Lexington. Of this acreage, we currently farm about half of it. We are in the city. We surround Dunbar High School and count Palomar's subdivision of Manowar Boulevard as our neighbors. We are within a mile of multiple grocery stores, including the first publics under construction, parks, both current and planned, elementary and high schools. When the city's bike ped master plan is completed, we will have dedicated bike ped connectivity via man-of-war in the city. I can clearly see the big blue building from the land. When examined from an objective data-driven analysis, Area A scored the second-highest points on the committee scoring system. The scoring system was developed to differentiate land based on the stated priorities of the committee, not on circumstance. This data-driven scoring system serves as the foundation for informing the decision-making. We surround the Mint Lane pump station, one of two pump stations that must be improved for the EPA consent decree, and it cannot be done inside the existing boundary, according to Mr. Martin. As suggested by the Sewer Ability Study, the investment in abandoning the Mint Lane pump station and creating a new Bowman Mills station will not only create infrastructure in the expansion area, but also improve the existing infrastructure in our urban service area. As Mr. Martin has shared, the South Elkhorn Pump Station is under significant pressure during wet weather events. With nowhere to expand the South Elkhorn Station, the new Bowman Mill Station is a significant opportunity to invest in our city's infrastructure. The committee should also understand that our family would be great partners. We believe in density and neighborhood development called for in our comprehensive plan. Additionally, I'm not only a farmer. I've been involved in city development throughout my career. The development company I co-founded recently won the highest award in residential design by the American Association of Landscape Architects for a project completed on the 900 block of North Limestone. I'm also the co-owner of a long-time affordable housing complex. Our family also believes in the balance of neighborhood development and environmental sensitivities to our unique soils and history. To that point, we've been working with the state of Kentucky on a wetlands restoration project that would permanently protect the unique wetland environment identified as the floodplain on this map. Importantly, we are able to work with the city efficiently. In Area A, there are only nine parcels. We own seven of them. Our cousins, as you just heard, own the 10th, and we speak as a consolidated voice. Master planning is only the first step, and it is important to have landowners that are enthusiastic about working with the city going forward. We are here to publicly state that we will continue the process of incrementally, intentionally, and thoughtfully incorporating the appropriate land into our community. The land is objectively a prime location for growth. infrastructure developments like the pump station will improve existing communities and we can quickly and enthusiastically work with the city to ensure this area prospers for generations to come. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Rob Shear is next. No this is John Larson. Hello John Larson. I believe most of you know me. I've been a lawyer here for 50 years, don't do any property law, my property is not specially affected by this, I've been an elected official, but I'm here because I love this community. Do you remember those buttons? I love Lexington. I love Lexington and Fayette County. Twice I ran for council on the issue of regional planning. This was my graduate thesis. It's future, futurism. We got to think in that way, and there are three issues that I'm here to talk about. First, save the horse farms. People don't come to see downtown Lexington. We're not competitive. What we do have is a beautiful park surrounding our community. Visitors come to see that. And how do we do that? We can't do it with Fayette County alone. We can't do it with, we've got to work with the surrounding counties. And we should have a plan that incorporates the region of county plans in each of these counties, in particular Clark County. Now, I'm going to suggest to you, because I go to the council debates, one of these regions has been vetted, and that's C. A, B, E, and D have not been vetted. I've been hearing about it. In fact, I suggested that because of the reason for our businesses to have an interest, it should be along the Interstate corridor. And C is where it should be. C has been vetted by council arguments, mayoral debates. You can almost bet that A, B, and E, and D are going to be the first ones developed because C hasn't been sewered. You know somebody's got an interest in those properties, but C is the one that we've already discussed as the way we should go. Now there's something else. Is anybody interested in affordable housing? Well, I am. And the reason, I want to tell you something, that I've got an idea that might help you in affordable housing. I called up a councilman yesterday to see if it had ever been discussed. Back in 1995, before we came up with the expansion area plan, I was on the Green Space Commission, and we had an exaction fee, or an impact fee the developers had to pay. Now they should pay for affordable housing. There's no reason why we can't incorporate that. We can give them some rebate. We can make them pay for affordable housing. And that should be done. Thank you very much. Thank you. Rob, John Woodall is next after Rob's here. Hi, I'm Rob Shear. I'm the general manager of SRC. We're an employee-owned manufacturer here in Lexington and I want to emphasize how important it is to have land for for jobs for employment. My company has 180 people working in Fayette County today and we want to stay here. It's a great place to live, great place to work, and it's a good central location for our employees. We're planning to grow significantly over the next few years, so we're going to need a new building or land to build a new building. And we're employee owned, so if we were a big public company, I guarantee we'd have no issue with moving 30 miles outside of Lexington and not really thinking as much about our employees as we do. So, you know, we don't want to move to another county to get additional space. We want to retain people, so we're committed to staying in Fayette County. So there's a large industrial building over 100,000 square feet that's going to come on the market soon. and I've been working with somebody found out who the who is responsible for doing that the consultant I gave him a call and they're talking about doing a sealed bid process to market that building so there may not be a price and he said the reason for that is because industrial property is such a premium that they think they can get the best price by having everybody just submit a bid and you know I mean we're an end user we're not a developer we'd probably be good for this building but we may get crowded out because of that situation so we know we'll pay likely pay a premium to stay here in Fayette County but we're committed to Fayette County and Lexington so we're willing to do that other companies have left and I think that more companies may leave because of the cost and lack of availability of buildings and land. So I would ask you guys to just consider that when you're making your recommendation. Thanks. Thank you. Mr. Woodall and Sam Dunn is next after Mr. Woodall. Ladies and gentlemen of the committee, thank you very much for your service and thank you for your time here tonight. Stood in this same spot almost 30 years ago during the 1996 process having just graduated from law school. Same emotion, same issues. I expect they'll be the same 30 years from now. It's what makes us a great community. I'm here tonight to speak just about two properties and I'll probably not take all of my time. I have the honor and the privilege of representing Stone Creek Farm Limited which owns approximately, I was just shy of, 900 acre farm on Winchester Road in Area C. My client is a long-standing member of this community and recognizes that this is a pivotal time in our community. My client has no intentions of developing its property in the near future. And based upon that and the fact that the family that lives on that farm, they don't want to be considered for inclusion in the urban services boundary at this time. There will probably come a time when that farm along that corridor is developed just based upon how Lexington has grown and is growing, but now is not the time. So they've asked to be removed from consideration. On the contrary, I also have the honor and the privilege of representing the Green family and they own several properties along Old Richmond Road but specifically they have a property that's bounded by Athens Boonesboro Road, Aphids Road and Old Richmond. It's approximately a 20 acre property and about 13 acres of that property is already in the Urban services boundary within the area. I don't know why it was not entirely brought in during the last process, but it wasn't. But that property is natural for inclusion, as are other properties along the Richmond Road corridor, as Mr. Murphy has aptly pointed out. This community has grown, It's going to grow. And the truth of the matter is the reason why everybody's here, doesn't matter what side you're on, everybody here, whether you're on this committee or sitting in this audience, cares about this community. And I think the community's done a fabulous job protecting vital farmland. I think that will continue to happen. I know that folks that do what we do, we don't want to see all of our farmland gobbled up. That's just not good business at all for anybody. And so I would just implore you to continue to do what you're doing. You've got a big decision to make here, and I appreciate your time. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Dunn, and next is Joe Palumbo. Mr. Dunn. Good evening. I'm Sam Dunn. My wife and I have lived in Palomar Hills for 23 years. I'm a board member of the Palomar Hills Community Association. And if there's any heliers here tonight, if I get my facts incorrect, I want to apologize. Palomar Hills began in 1986. There were 663 homes and townhomes located on 200-plus acres. We're a planned community on the west and we're bordered on the west by the historic Mill Ridge Farm. We strive to maintain the beauty and unique bluegrass identity of our neighborhood. We take active interest in the compatibility of development that occurs around us. I was aware of your committee, but it wasn't until Beth Musgrave's article in the paper that I realized how far along you were. When I studied the recommendations for Area A, I was astounded. Smack in the middle of Area A was a large swath of our neighbor's historic Millridge Farm. This causes us grave concern. This operational horse farm is all the remains of the famous 4,000-acre Beaumont Farm that once dominated Lexington's West End. Beaumont Farm was owned by the legendary Hal Price Headley, whose relatives are here tonight, one of the founders of Keeneland. Upon his death in 1962, he bequeathed to his daughter Alice Headley 286 acres that became Mill Ridge Farm. Mill Ridge's history and prestige is known worldwide. Even Queen Elizabeth II entrusted her mayors with, she visited Mill Ridge and entrusted her mayors with Miss Alice and her team. Alice Healy Chandler died in 2021, and two generations of her family continued to manage and operate the farm. And I must add, they are wonderful neighbors. How and why would make this list to be bulldozed is a mystery and a potential tragedy. As a Palomar resident, we are concerned on the impact the future development of Area A, as proposed, will have on our neighborhood. Thank you for your time and your consideration. Thank you. Mr. Palombo and Brittany Rothenmeier. After Mr. Palombo. Good evening. I'm Joe Palumbo and my family owns property at 2675 and 2741 Winchester Road, just under 300 acres. It's a short way down from the end of Polo Club and borders the urban service boundary directly across the street in Area C. We would like to be brought into the urban service boundary. This area makes sense to include for a lot of reasons. We're on a major corridor. Close by our property, Central Baptist is continuing their work to have a hospital that will employ hundreds of folks and will care for thousands of Kentuckians every day. Fayette County Public Schools is opening a new school nearby on Polo Club as well. Also, the University of Kentucky is investing in the area, making it a big part of their health care future. The Department of Transportation also recognizes the viability of this area and is widening Winchester Road to four lanes out to Haley Pike. Your committee was presented with a sewer study. That study showed that in our area, which was Area 6, is one of the highest graded areas for sewer ability. We see a clear path towards developing this area, which happens to be an industry that my family's been in for over 70 years. Also here tonight is the family with Mount Zion Farm. Their property borders ours, and it also borders I-64. They would also like to be brought into the urban service area. Thank you for your consideration and commitment to this process in our city. Thank you. Mr. Rothenmayer. And next after Ms. Rothenmeier is Lynn Phillips. Good evening, everyone. Brittany Rothenmeier. I'm the director of Fate Alliance. First, thank you all for your service on this committee. You've dedicated significant time and energy to this probably very thankless and difficult task. So we really appreciate all your efforts. Before the size of the 96 expansion of the USB, which we've heard about already tonight, was recommended, a committee somewhat like this was formed to evaluate where and how much land should be included. They considered the following over the course of multiple years. Population projections, housing, employment, and economic projections, development trends and locations, land requirements for housing growth, fiscal impacts of capital facilities and annual revenue and expenses. They looked at costs for arterial roads, schools, parkland, fire stations, storm sewers. It's been a thrill to read through, I can assure you. This was all before Alexane was put under a consent decree, for which we've paid into about $600 million and are still paying. You all have been given information on where we can build sewer infrastructure, what properties have road frontage, how big different parcels are, and whether they're near PDR farms. That's a pretty stark difference in information. Despite a current sewer study, the committee hasn't discussed the cost of each area or the capacity or what's going to be required in order to accommodate it. If there are confusion in the audience about costs of each area, that should be clarified by the city and not any of our development community. You all have been given quite a task. Using very limited data, identify where and how the USB should expand in less than six weeks. You're asked to address an affordable housing problem without the information, tools, or authority to require affordable housing. Plus, you've got a minimum for which no justification has been given to do so. Instead of understanding the need and identifying areas to meet it, you're required to solve a math problem to meet a random number. Based on this, we urge you to recommend no more than the minimum acreage for expansion at this time so that the Lexington community may put a data-driven process in place and let that guide future discussion about expansion. All the information missing from this conversation should alarm everyone in this room. Unfortunately, many in the community don't even know about it. No one has told us what this is going to cost or how we're going to pay for it. While this isn't your charge, it should give you pause that we don't know. The cost of trash, EMS, schools, street cleaning, and more. The most recent cost of community services studies done by UK found that for every dollar of revenue residential development creates, it costs the city $1.69. It doesn't pay for itself. We need housing, but we also need transparency about costs and who's going to pay. As you make these impossible decisions, we hope you'll consider the following as you also consider limiting the acreage. Minimize impacts to prime soils, existing ag and equine operations. this land has taken thousands of years to form and when it's gone it's gone. Utilize easy to understand boundaries. I do have one. I just need 25 more seconds chair if that's okay. Utilize easy to understand boundaries like interstate 75, major corridors and topography like creeks and ridgelines to limit expansion and buffer impacts. Minimize future expenses and costs of services. Fix water quality issues efficiently but without mandating expansion to do so. Recommending more than the minimum of 2,700 acres is like doing surgery without first doing an MRI. As a community, we can't solve a problem when we don't really know the details of the problem or the impacts of the solutions. Our community deserves the data to figure any more than that out and a good process for doing so. Thank you. Thank you. Lynn Phillips. And after Lynn, there's Karen Terrell. Hi, thank you all for your service on this committee. I'm faculty at the University of Kentucky. I'm in the geography department and sprawl is my area of scholarship. So I have so much that I want to say about this, but the words that come to mind are wrong-minded. This is not the way to go about an expansion to an urban services boundary. Lexington is the first community in our country to have an urban services boundary. 2,700 acres is the minimum that politics have dictated that you all adopt. I don't know where that number came from, but it is wrong-minded. This is not the right way to go about an expansion to our urban services boundary. And I also keep thinking of the saying, if you keep on doing what you've always done, you'll keep on getting what you've always got. And here we are again 30 years later, however many hundreds of millions of dollars for consent decree, because we developed in ways without the appropriate information to inform those decisions. I was on the Sustainable Growth Task Force. We spent two years coming forward with an incredibly detailed, data-rich, albeit very complicated mode of determining triggers to bring in land into the urban services boundary. I apologize that was too messy for politics, but that's the kind of data that we need before deciding whether to take in Area C, D, E, A, or B. I have a couple of other points that I wanted to address. First off, I agree with one of the speakers earlier who said that Lexington's identity is our horse industry. And anything that we do that compromises the integrity of the horse industry, and that is bringing in a particular farm which then creates vulnerabilities to the farm behind it. And data show that, research shows that there's disinvestment on that property that is being encroached upon, if that makes sense. You're kind of pushing that threat further out. We need to do what we can to maintain our identity. There are going to be changes in how we live. We've seen how COVID has changed how we work, where we work. And I think that it's really too soon for us to make these kinds of decisions about how housing should look in these areas. And finally, with respect to Area C, there are a couple of historic black enclaves in there. And sitting back, thinking about Lexington's attempts at racial reckoning, would adopting Area C be another way of white power structure within Lexington mowing down the desires of the people of color? And I really, that may sound very dramatic, but from my heart, I feel like this is just another attempt at the urban renewal we experienced in the 1950s, 60s, and Jim Crow redlining. I could go on and on. Thank you for your time and attention. Thank you. Karen. And after Karen is Jason Wittes. Hello, I'm Karen Terrell, just a private citizen living in a single-family home that was built in 1986, way before some of the most recent discussions, but in Ms. Plowman's district. I was motivated to come here tonight. I was really motivated because I had to deal with Tates Creek traffic, 5 o'clock coming downtown, and I saw a city bus ahead of me which will need transportation in any of the areas chosen at some point. And I had to decide if I was going to follow the city bus. I veered off through UK at 5 o'clock in the afternoon and got behind a Prius that had a Colorado plate that said, my other ride is a horse. And I thought, here I am on the way to talk about my feelings for this wonderful city and follow that car. And then with changes in parking down here, I got to pay for parking down here, but that's minor detail. I've volunteered for many organizations to deliver usually food to needy people in many areas of the city. And in driving around, we need to keep in mind whatever areas are chosen. And I've listened to people wanting to include certain areas and not wanting to include others. I just want us to keep in mind that we need to be careful. We need to have the data driven from the last speaker. And my opinion is we need to keep to the minimum however that number was arrived. Thank you all for your time. Your work is cut out for you. Thank you. Thank you. After Jason, is Patty Drouse? Good evening. My name is Jason Wynes. I'm the president of Fayette County Farm Bureau. We are a voluntary organization of farm families and community allies working together to support farmers and contributing to the social fabric of the community. We appreciate your time and commitment to serve on this working group and are happy that you're accepting public comment on this important expansion issue for Lexington. Farm Bureau is not an anti-growth organization but rather an advocate for a careful, thought-out, data-driven process for smart growth. We would like to encourage this community to proceed cautiously and and conservatively in its mission. Proceeding along the lower end of the council's mandate of 2,700 acres will allow some land to be annexed now, while future expansions can be conducted through a data-driven process developed from timely research and studies that evaluate cost, impacts, and needs. The initial 2,700 acres expansion will allow for roughly 12,500 housing units to be built, creating enough inventory for 10 to 15 years of growth supported by past growth history. Utilizing this conservative amount of acres for development and the considerable amount of land that has not been developed in the current urban service boundary could push the needs for additional acres for another 20 to 30 years. We would like to point out that keeping the boundaries of roadways and especially interstates is a better solution than spot developing properties. We concur with the mayor that keeping development concentrated is a cost-saving measure for city services, infrastructure, and Lexington taxpayers. Lastly, we feel that all farms should be buffered from development in a manner that protects the character of the rural community as well as their viewsheds. The use of interstates, existing roadways, and waterways are buffers that are well-defined and add little to no cost to expansion efforts. Crossing these established buffers at great expense, boring under interstates and building bridges over waterways and roadways, we ask that a careful design is developed with the input for all parties to ensure the safety of the landowners, livestock, and crops. When you fly into Lexington, you fly over some of the most beautiful and productive agricultural land in the world. When you fly into Louisville or Cincinnati or other major cities, all you see are concrete and buildings. We live in a truly unique place, and it's up to us today to preserve it for future generations to come. We just ask for your thoughtful consideration on these growth decisions that will impact our community well beyond our lifetime. Thank you. Thank you. After Patty is Tom Pushkin. Good evening. My name is Patty Drouse. I live in Joyland. Remember the bumper sticker, growth destroys bluegrass forever. Well, that still applies here. I do not support opening the urban service... Wait a minute. Hey, Chris, we need to start that over, man. That's a fast three minutes. I do not support opening the urban service boundary without a specific data-driven set of criteria to tell us how much land is needed. I agree with Fayette Alliance. But 2,700 acres is a reasonable compromise until we have criteria established, but no more than that. But if there is already 2,500 acres within the boundary approved in 1996 that has not been developed, what is the rush to add more acreage? What is the matter with these 2,500 acres of undeveloped land already in the boundary? The public has heard nothing about why this land hasn't been developed, and this makes it very hard for us to understand why we need to open the boundary. Please look into this first. Should we remove this acreage if it doesn't really exist? Please recommend to the Planning Commission to hold to this number of 2,700 acres until we have data-driven criteria established for any future expansion of the urban service boundary. Please recommend placing a requirement for a certain minimum percentage of the land to be dedicated to low-income housing, as we all know how this sector of housing will be completely ignored and forgotten, no matter what they say, once the dollar signs flash before the developer's eyes. Lastly, how firm will this committee's recommendation be? Will the Planning Commission follow it? Are they required to? Will the Urban County Council follow the Planning Commission's recommendation? You all are putting in a lot of time and energy into your decision, and it seems that your recommendations should hold a lot of weight. Thank you for allowing us this opportunity to speak. I have 59 left for the next person. Thank you. Thank you. We've got time to see. Stepping up to the point. Okay, here we go. and Walt Gatfield is next. Sorry, you right there. All right, am I on the clock? Thank you, everyone. Thank you for all the work that you have done and the work you have yet to do. My name is Tom Poskin. I live at 172 Louisiana Avenue. I am here today because this means a lot to me. What I will tell you is I grew up on a farm in Illinois. I grew up in an area of Illinois that is now commonly referred to as Chicagoland. I inherited the family farm, so I know what sprawl is because I have watched it through my entire life growing up in Illinois. As Chicago moved out and it caused all of the problems in the state of Illinois that I think we're all fairly familiar with. And we can create affordable housing in Lexington simply by allowing sprawl and declining to take care of our inner city neighborhoods. And Chicago suffers that wrath today. So I would caution this group that if we always think about expanding a bounty as the easy way to improve our city, it will not. It does not. It simply expands the city and I do not intend to live in a big city that's not why I moved here I don't tend to live in a better city and I would counsel you to do that the decision should be to have a better city not a bigger one and I have lived that experience so I would tell you that I would also tell you sidebar note I know Bob quick longer than anybody else in this room because I was a high school ag teacher and Bob came to my class and spoke. He was a state FFA president. I would also tell you that Bob and I probably do agree on a lot of things and one of those is is I know that the boundary will need to be expanded but I'm not here to talk to you like a parent talking to a pregnant daughter about birth control. I know we need to expand it I just don't want to have a big baby, okay? So I would ask that we keep this a bit smaller. I would also ask you this, is how many people in here took a soil class in college? I did. I took soils. I can tell you one thing. I will tell you one thing very clearly here. We are talking about one of the rarest soil types in the world when you talk about taking an acre out of Fayette County. It is rare, a 1% soil type in the world and in an arable area where we can farm it because it's naturally fertilizing because the three nutrients when you buy back fertilizer, N, P, and K, we make phosphate in our soil as our rock, which I brought to a planning commission meeting once. I should have brought it. As it decomposes, it takes about 500 years to make an inch of topsoil. It takes a bulldozer about five minutes. I hope I get that 59 seconds. It takes a bulldozer about five minutes to destroy it. And once you destroy that soil, it will never improve. And you know that because that's how they find old artifacts from thousands of years ago under soil because it's disturbed and they can see it for thousands of years. Once you lose that capillary action, the soil is destroyed. The last point that I will say is, is that once you've destroyed it, it'll never return to the natural what it was before. Anybody that owns a house in Lexington that tries to grow grass and hot water, you kind of know that because the capillary action's gone. You wonder why the farms out of town still have grass. Yours is dead. And I would also tell you that kind of the last thing that goes with that, with the fertile soils and everything else here is that we just need to make a tough decision very hard, a capricious decision to just pick 5,000. That's like the silliest number in the world. That's got three zeros. That tells you they just made it up. What I will tell you is we don't need that many acres. Do less, please. Tom, you didn't tell us that Bob quick past your class or not? Walt and Paul. I don't know Bob Quick that well, but I hope I get a little extra time as well. Let's see. I'm Walt Gaffield. I'd say development should be contiguous and should minimize cost to Lexington, both in terms of budget, but also in terms of our agricultural areas, which is signature to Lexington. I think it's important that the consent decree under the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency be codified once the consent decree is put away so Lexington doesn't get covered with sewage and flood water again. I think that's really important. I think the committee needs to look at the cost of schools, particularly in areas A and B on the west side. There hasn't been a new elementary school built in the last 25 years, and it's important not to displace neighborhoods that are already in the local elementary school. And the Fayette County schools can work around that, and we'll probably have to try to place people as they live in that new area, should you choose it, into surrounding schools. But it's important not to displace neighborhoods. If not already done, an assessment needs to occur to determine why half of the land from the 1996 expansion hasn't been used yet because you really don't want to make the same mistake that was made in the past. Why did that not happen? And you need to try to avoid it. That's important. The expansion area should include different housing types and public resources and incentives. Probably are going to be necessary to get affordable housing. Affordable housing is just not going to come by magic by expanding the boundary. That would be naive. A recent proposal suggests that affordable housing should be inside the urban services boundary on public land. If you want to look at that, the group that said that needs to tell you what that public land is, what it's used for, and then let the public decide whether that's a good idea or not. Any expansion of the boundary should require newer planning concepts. like open roads, open spaces, and multimodal transportation. There's a way to conserve land and be more efficient with it and possibly build less expensive housing. I've seen in the West Coast small lots with HOA public land interspersed with it, and that's a more efficient use of land. Housing is really more affordable, and I think that's something Lexington developers should look at. Infrastructure, things like roads, schools, utilities, green space, and neighborhood focal points should occur at the same time as residential development, not afterwards. The infrastructure is really important. It's a real mess if it's developed later. PDR properties and the environment should be protected. Development should not occur in floodplains, environmentally sensitive areas, or in areas without adequate sanitary sewer capacity. Agricultural soil should be part of the determination in prioritizing development. Thank you, Mr. Gatfield. I am just about done. You're done. I'm done. You've done that to me before. I know you've been through the routine. Thank you. Paul and Zach is next. Hi, my name is Paul Natoff. I live in the 12th District. I agree with many people who have spoken before me that the amount of expansion should be limited to the minimum 2,700 acres. This is a number that could be increased in the future if necessary, but it can never be reduced. In determining where to expand, this committee is guided by Theme E, Goal 3 of the Goals and Objectives of the Comprehensive Plan, where it states that the area to be considered for expansion is limited with the recognition of the community's desire to ensure Lexington remains the horse capital of the world. There's been some discussion in recent meetings that the horse capital of the world, in spirit, refers to the agricultural connection to the land. I respectfully disagree that you should be looking at the spirit that may or may not be meant by this language. The words of the objective that were carefully crafted by the urban county council are quite clear. The language explicitly refers to the community's desire. There's nothing to decipher as the words tell you on their face what the community wants. That is, as clearly stated in Theme E, Goal 3, Objective B, which is your guide to expansion, the community's desire is to ensure Lexington remains the horse capital of the world. Through robust public engagement, the council heard from the community, and we want horses. Even the Commerce Lexington guys agrees that we should protect our horse farms. Just because there may be owners of horse farms who are willing to sell, that does not mean it's best for Lexington. I understand that what's a cattle farm today may be a horse farm tomorrow, and what's a horse farm today, maybe a tobacco or hemp farm tomorrow, but you should consider and protect the type of land that is most suitable for horse farms. Is it the soil, which we just heard about? The topography? The proximity to or distance from the airport, Keeneland, or major interstates? Or perhaps it's the undulating terrain and presence of sinkholes that makes development of the land prohibitively expensive. I don't know these answers, but surely existing horse farms are on land that's suitable for horse farms. The inclusion of existing horse farms in any expansion incentivizes development of those horse farms, thereby nearly guaranteeing that Lexington will not remain the horse capital of the world. Please ensure the community's desire is achieved by protecting horse farms from expansion. At the very least, please add the inclusion of horse farms into the scoring metric. And while PDR is an incredible program, please consider removing it as its own criteria. PDR is already included in the percentage of developable acreage, and it is also responsible for a six-point swing in evaluating suitable land for expansion, regardless of the size of the PDR parcel within a given area. And finally, in my last 10 seconds, to help ensure transparency at your meetings, if you can make the voting records public, that would be appreciated. Thank you. Thank you. Zach. And after Zach, this is Bruce Simpson. My name is Zach Skubitz. I live in the Turkey Foot neighborhood out by Tate's Creek and Alumni. The best thing this committee could do is go back in time and convince the city council to vote against expansion. Tragically, we don't have that technology today, so we must work with what we are given. I believe strongly in high density. Some of you here know that I bike to work every day. Larry knows that I bike to his work some days. I want to see more people biking through town. The expansion makes every part of that harder. I think that the city has dramatically underestimated the land the city locks up with poor zoning decisions, but that's not the purview of this committee. This committee is looking at where to expand and with that goal in mind I believe the best choice is the smallest allowable area of land within a combination of A and B. They are already close to the downtown core of Lexington and are connected to the outer wheel of Lexington's hub-and-spoke model. I believe that it will have the least overall impact in the city and limit the limit acreage of expansion. I also believe this is the most natural expansion of Lexington if it must expand. I believe this is also the easiest to integrate into Lexington's slowly expanding network of bike paths. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Simpson and after Mr. Simpson, Don Todd. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the study committee. I'm Bruce Simpson. I'm here to try to make your job easier. You've heard a lot of information tonight. I respect your ability to decipher it and categorize it and translate it into meaningful decisions. It's a tough job. We started at 6 o'clock. It's now 744. I've heard mention made of job creation, affordable housing, and preserving our precious brand of Lexington being the horse capital of the world. I support all those endeavors. However, I haven't heard anything specific in terms of something that's actually coming in a real-time event. I'm here to represent that I have two clients that are going to provide meaningful jobs if the property is included in the urban services area, which is directly across from Blue Sky. guy. It was originally in Area 14, we'll put that up on the screen, south of Athens Boonesboro, east of I-75. Mr. Crutcher spoke earlier. He and his family have been putting that property together for the better part of 25 years. It will never be a horse farm, it will never be affordable housing, it's too close to the interstate, The noise generated is prohibited from houses in residential areas being that close. It is suited for light industrial uses and some mixed uses of interstate nature. These are jobs. I've been to all the comp plan updates since 1996. You know, one person I've never seen come to the podium and say something that they need or would like this body to do is someone looking for a job that doesn't require college education. I've never seen anybody come to the podium and say that. And yet I know, from representing a wide variety of people in 40 years as an attorney, there are a lot of people who aren't college educated, aren't college material, don't want to go to college, but are interested in the trades and skilled workforce and can make, with the jobs that one of my clients, electrical workers union, Those jobs will start at $75,000 to $125,000 a year. They're ready to start today if you bring this property south of I-75 and add just 14 acres to it to start today in job training. That's a commitment today. The other folks I represent are the Potter family who bought the Crutcher property, paid almost $7 million for this property in July of this year. $7 million. The property is unzoned. It is contiguous to the rural activity center. It's contiguous to sewers. It is contiguous to the interstate. It's contiguous to Athens-Boonesboro. It is direct access to a prime interstate highway for light industrial use. We need this property inside the urban service area. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Simpson. After Don Todd, it's Tumba Kool. I've been doing this so long, I got Bruce Simpson involved in this process 38 years ago. I've sat on two or three comprehensive plan update committees in the council, and I've heard these zone change hearings, and I've been practicing law for 52 years. So I've heard it all. It's about the money. I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, but it's really about the money. The folks that are arguing for the farms, you can't blame them. They're protecting their family's interests. The developers, they've got a job, they've got to work. The horse farmers, they're trying to protect their deal. So the point is, don't worry about hurting anyone's feelings. It's about the money. And if we're talking about money, let's talk about what the horse industry does, okay? To this community, the horse industry has brought in millions, billions of dollars. Churchill Downs just published a recent report that said 34,000 direct employees work in this industry, in the racetrack part of it. $1.9 billion in income and $115 million in tax revenue. Keeneland posted gross sales receipts last year, $699,645,500. The year before that, $621,880,600. There was a joint study in 1990 by the Chamber and others. The whole horse industry to Central Kentucky is a $3.4 billion industry with 80,000 direct employees. There are more than 1,100 equine operations in Fayette County alone. So what does all this mean? Well, if you turn around and you look at the USA and you look outside, that's a factory. That is a factory. And that factory produces a product which yields all the gross income we've talked about, the employees, the profits, and the taxes. And so what we're doing here, each time we expand this, we're eating into our factory floor. We're eating our seed corn. You've got to be careful. You're going to start to push this thing out and out, and you can't go too far out. If you draw a circle outside of Fayette County, if you look at Clark County, Bourbon, and the surrounding areas, the land goes hilly. You get rock formations. It's not good quality soil. I've not seen anyone discuss the soil. And I've been to all your meetings. I traveled today with you on the bus. Where's the McAfee soil? Where's the Huntington silt? No. Do you even know what that is? Where's the karst topography? Huh? Those are all the first issues you should look at because unlike other factories, this factory's floor is its soil. That's where its structure is. And that's the important point that people seem to miss. So I'm asking you to think about this as an industry that really impacts our community, and you're taking the factory floor away each time you expand. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Kuhl. And after Mr. Kuhl, it's Cabby Boone. Good evening, everyone. My name is Tumblebee Kuhl. I'm a father, husband, CEO of Cambridge Networks, and I recently become a horseman. I grew up in New Jersey, and every summer I came to visit my family in Udingertown, right on Royster Road. I loved coming to here, to this Lexington rural area, because my aunt said, go outside and pick your dinner. Go outside and pick your lunch. And we ate organic food. We were healthy. And then I went back to New Jersey, where I grew up in the urban setting, where we were overpopulated. Everybody seemed stressed out. And I just wanted to share with you my experience of why I came here, is to bring my children to an area that had community. Everybody's lawns get mowed in Udinger Town. Who does it? Who knows? Who cares? I get vegetables from all my neighbors. I brought my children here to have a wonderful experience in regards to being able to raise animals. My wife is from Harlem, New York. I'm only saying this because I know what it means to be in an area that has urban development or affordable housing, as we call it. And I know it's important as a businessman myself to make sure that you're profitable. but before we develop the properties, I would like for us to do more to develop the people. In Udinger Town, there's a specific mindset of hard work. We don't complain. We don't talk about all the rough times we had in the past. We're a collective, a group of people that work together, and I think that we can focus on that mindset before we just throw a group of people into a neighborhood. I think that will be beneficial for myself and my children and experience that we came here to have. As a horseman, you know, it's very stressful. I have eight children, a beautiful young wife, and I found therapy through horses. And I'm starting to open a training center right on Winchester Road, just acquired a property, 15 acres, where I'm going to be bringing young people to learn about fiber optic construction alongside a horse farm that disrupts all of my business plans if this neighborhood is developed in that capacity. I love going into the downtown area and interacting with young men. Sometimes I have gentlemen that look at me and say, something different about you, you're not frowning at me. And I say, I don't understand what you're talking about. You must not be from here. And I say, well, I'm from Udingertown. You know, come on, I'll show you some goats, some chickens, a whole other world. So I love the idea of people coming into the neighborhood of Udingertown. I just think that the mindset has to be focused before we focus on developing the properties. Thank you for your time, everybody. Thank you. I'm Cappy Boone. I do not need a lot of time. I just have a couple of things. I was in your meetings this whole month of August, and I know one meeting that stuck out to me was, do we want to develop, is it net or gross properties? And I feel like the goalpost keeps moving. Why do we want to say we have the opportunity to pick 5,000 acres when really only maybe not even 2,700? I would love that. It's good enough. Don't pick the large amount. Pick what's going to work the best for the city. We're not foolish enough to think that we're not going to grow any, but let's be smart about it. And let's really think about all the things that come to play in here. Smart growth, the right decision, not just because we have the opportunity to do more. So I would propose less, make it better. And also, I just got off an airplane, and it was so funny because this is always on my mind. When you get off the Bluegrass Airport, what do you see? Transylvania University advertised, Keeneland advertised, pictures of horse farms advertised, and yes there's the industry, Linkfield I believe has one. I'm probably missed one, but the main thing people see and anybody that comes to Lexington, Kentucky that looks at you and says I want to go see a horse farm, that's the first thing 90% of people are going to say. I understand growth, we need jobs, we need affordable housing, but let's let's really make the decisions a smart way and and quit moving the goalpost. That's all I have to say. Thank you. Is there anyone else that would like to speak? Yes, sir. My name is Bernard McCarthy. I live at 515 Harry Street here in Lexington. And I want to say that we definitely have a problem with real estate prices. In the recent years, I've seen profit-making developers snapping up inner-city vacant lots that they would not have touched with a 10-foot pole when I was young. And in doing so, they are squeezing the non-profits and the do-it-yourselfers, and it is the non-profits that build the cheapest housing for the poor. And I've donated a whole lot of my vacation time and a lot of my Saturdays to one of those non-profits and even some of my money over the years. I would like them to be able to get empty lots to build on in the future. and in the argument over how many acres to take in, do you have to do it all in one hunk or can you write an ordinance that sets different effective dates for each of those five lettered parcels to come into the boundary? Because I'm thinking instead of smacking real estate prices down once and then letting them creep back up, if you took it in on an installment plan, you could apply more gentle downward pressure on land prices and give the people who are holding on to land that's already inside the boundary some warning that competition is coming their way. So maybe instead of trying to hold out in the hope of land getting scarcer in the future and them getting more money, maybe they ought to go ahead and turn loose of what's close in first. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else that would like to speak? Mr. Bailey, do we have anyone outside in the mezzanine area? Yes, ma'am. You can step up. Hello. My name is Ansel Elkins, and I live at 1227 Scoville Road. I'm a little bit late to this conversation, but I teach poetry at Berea College, and every day that I drive down Athens-Boonesboro Road, it is one of the things that I truly love. I slow down after I pass Jacobson Park. I take in this beautiful, you know, the fields there, the wildflowers, and every September I see so many butterflies crossing that road. And I think what a special place this is. So I just want to say that we can't forget that development also means destruction of that land. And once those fields are gone that I pass by on Athens-Boonesboro Road, that that is lost forever. And I just hope that you'll remember we can't destroy what we love about this place. And I love the country. So thank you so much. Thank you. Anyone else? Yes, ma'am. My name is Denise Finley. I live at 1451 Pine Needles Lane, but I'm not here to talk about the maps. I have been a teacher since 1980. I have taught in Title I schools all my life. I taught at Johnson Elementary on 6th Street when we had our housing downtown where William Wells Brown is. Then I moved to Tates Creek Elementary, which is in that campus, when they moved the housing, the affordable housing up there. My concern about these maps is supporting the families that need the services to let them live. Since that time, I've been retired since 2017 and I've been substituting. So I've been teaching nonstop since 1980. I'm also involved in canvassing doors for different candidates since 2018. Mr. Wu, I've canvassed more than you have. I am seeing investment that we need in the affordable housing where we are. You ran on that platform and I believed it. I, through the years that I've canvassed and knocked on the families, I'm knocking on my students' doors that have children. And the conditions that they're living in, I just came from the Tate's Creek, Mill Creek area. Those were the families that we work with. I'm very concerned about the conditions of those homes of the affordable housing. So I'm not here to make money as a farmer, as a person that has land to lease. I'm not a realtor. I'm nothing. I'm looking at you as the lens of children. I try to bring up children. I was a special ed teacher, regular ed teacher, and I became an interventionist. My data was incredible. I read data constantly. I looked at the weak areas of the students, and I brought them up. I had exemplary evaluations for what I did with these kids. I am not happy with this map. If the purpose is for affordable housing, I want the supports in place for them. And I just, their parents work downtown. They need bus routes. It's all about things that I don't comprehend because that's not my world. And I just feel like I wasn't going to speak. I didn't sign up to speak. I didn't know all this was going on until a couple weeks ago, but I'm talking to you as the lens of a person that teaches these families. And I'm very concerned about the direction that we're going. If we're really, truly going to be helping them grow up with the supports that they need, what their parents, these are, a lot of our families are working families. And they need to be closer to the center and investments in those areas. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. Thank you so much. Mr. Chair, group, I'm Gloria Martin. I live on Grimes Mill Road. And I just wanted to urge you all while you make this decision, because I realize that there is pressure inside the urban service boundary and there's pressure outside the urban service boundary. So there's pressure everywhere, not just because of this. I want you all, I want to urge you to, you can do this online, look at the 125 pages of the Rural Land Management Plan, which has a lot of pertinent information to what you're doing. It's big print, it's easy to read, a lot of colored pictures, you can do it in your bed online. About that 70% and that 30% that everybody keeps talking about, that we have 120, 130,000 acres out there. It's not really an accurate portrayal of what's there, because in those acres there is a variety of existing land uses already in place. I want to give you just a partial list, and the reason I'm bringing this up is because planning, as we've heard, is a finite resource inside and outside. and we have a very limited amount of land, period. In what's in the Rural Land Management Plan that GIS has prepared for us that I would like for you all to look at, I'm going to give you just a partial list. There are 45 subdivisions of those 10-acre lots. That's 5,000 acres. There are 500 parcels in those rural settlements. Half of those are already zoned R1D. There are 500 acres in the historic hamlets that I really want to save and those crossroad historic communities that I really want to save. We need buffers. There are 800 acres in those small lot residentials not associated with the hamlets or the crossroad communities. And 514 of those are under two acres. You've already heard about Elam Village. There are a lot of others just like that. just in the two quarries, and that's just some of the residential, which is why the Rural Land Management Board wanted the Planning Commission and the Council to look at ADUs, which they did not consider. There are 255 acres in two quarries, 355 parcels of active B1, B3 zoned business operations already in the rural area. 96 of those are zoned and unused. There are 85 active church lots with camps, athletic fields, and large cemeteries attached to some. There are 17 cell towers, 150 acres in schools, 600 acres in the landfill and our composting operation, 48 acres in the police firing age. The point being, there's a lot out there, and the rural service area is under pressure too, so be careful. They've talked about the prime soils and the fact that it is your golden goose. And you do want to keep your tourism trade and this economic development that is already there that is so important to our local industry. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. All right. Got you good. Okay. I'm not seeing anyone else. So this meeting is adjourned. Thank you.