# Urban County Council Work Session - September 23, 2008 > Auto-transcribed civic record · Council · September 23, 2008 - **Permalink**: https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/meeting/602 - **Source video**: https://lfucg.granicus.com/player/clip/602?view_id=14&redirect=true - **Date**: 2008-09-23 - **Body**: Council - **Last revised**: June 17, 2026 - **Length**: 18,115 words > ⚠️ **Auto-generated content.** Audio from the official Granicus video was auto-transcribed by OpenAI Whisper-1. Structured facts were extracted with GPT-4o; the narrative summary was written by Anthropic Claude Sonnet. Speaker labels and verbatim wording may contain errors. See [methodology](https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/about/methodology) or [report a correction](mailto:editor@lexingtonky.news). --- ## Meeting Overview The Lexington-Fayette Urban County Council met at 3:01 PM on September 23, 2008, with Mayor Newberry presiding. The meeting covered 3 agenda items, all informational in nature, including a proclamation recognizing Down Syndrome Awareness and Buddy Walk Day, a presentation on a Downtown Survey, and a report from the Intergovernmental Committee. Over the course of the meeting, the Council took 6 votes and heard 1 public comment. No agenda items resulted in legislative or policy outcomes beyond the informational presentations and report. ## Attendance All members of the Council were present at the January 23, 2024 meeting. The following individuals were in attendance: - Mayor Newberry - Council Member Gorton - Council Member Stinnett - Council Member DeCamp - Council Member Ellinger - Council Member James - Council Member Stevens - Council Member Beard - Council Member McChord - Council Member Lane - Council Member Blues - Council Member Myers - Council Member Blevins - Council Member Gordon - Council Member Crosby No members were absent or late. ## Votes and Decisions All votes during this work session were conducted by voice vote. No roll call votes were recorded, and no individual vote counts were captured. All motions passed. - **Approval of the September 16, 2008 Work Session Summary** [timestamp: 0:02:41]: Moved by Council Member Gorton, seconded by Council Member Stinnett. The motion passed by voice vote. - **Approval of New Business Items** [timestamp: 0:03:16]: Moved by Council Member DeCamp, seconded by Council Member Gorton. The motion passed by voice vote. - **Building Inspection List for Temporary Structure Proposal** [timestamp: 0:13:32]: Moved by Council Member James, seconded by Council Member Stinnett. The motion directed building inspection to provide a list of businesses affected by the temporary structure proposal. The motion passed by voice vote. - **Approval of the NDF List Dated September 23, 2008** [timestamp: 1:27:46]: Moved by Council Member Myers, seconded by Council Member Gorton. The motion passed by voice vote. - **Direction to TIF Delegation** [timestamp: 1:30:33]: Moved by Council Member McCord, seconded by Council Member Lane. The motion directed the TIF Delegation to create a project summary and list of standards. The motion passed by voice vote. - **Adjournment of the Work Session** [timestamp: 1:45:53]: Moved by Council Member Meyers, seconded by Council Member Gordon. The motion passed by voice vote. ## Budget and Financial Actions The Council addressed four financial items at the January 23, 2024 meeting, covering federal grant acceptances and contractual agreements. **Federal Grants** - **Resolution 503-08**: The Council accepted a $22,000 award of federal funds designated for a disaster preparedness plan related to the 2010 World Equestrian Games. The funds are directed to the Division of Environmental Management / 911. - **Resolution 510-08**: The Council accepted a $49,126 award of federal funds for the continuation of the Healthy Tomorrows Project, with the Department of Social Services Family Care Center identified as the recipient. **Contracts and Agreements** - **Resolution 508-08**: The Council approved a Facility Use Agreement with the Fayette County Board of Education in the amount of $263.38, covering the use of Bryan Station High School for a public meeting. - **Resolution 509-08**: The Council approved an Engineering Services Agreement with CDP Engineers, Inc. in the amount of $33,500 for work on the South Elkhorn Trail. In total, the financial actions approved at this meeting account for approximately $105,889 in expenditures and grant receipts, ranging from a modest facility rental to a federally funded continuation of a community health program. ## Public Comment One member of the public addressed the Council during the public comment period at the January 23, 2024 meeting. - **Louis A. Gil Cobb** spoke on social issues and community unity in Lexington. [timestamp: 1:44:38] Mr. Cobb emphasized the need to address racism and moral issues within the community, calling for greater community unity and moral integrity. ## Contested Items - **TIF Delegation Process:** A procedural dispute arose during the meeting regarding how Tax Increment Financing (TIF) projects should be reviewed and managed. The disagreement centered on whether a dedicated TIF delegation or a council committee should be responsible for handling TIF projects, with differing opinions expressed on the appropriate structure for that process. The discussion reflected broader questions about standardizing the workflow for TIF-related matters. The available data does not indicate a definitive outcome or resolution reached during this meeting. ## Down Syndrome Awareness and Buddy Walk Day Proclamation [timestamp: 03:49] Mayor Newberry presented a proclamation declaring September 27, 2008, as Down Syndrome Awareness and Buddy Walk Day. The proclamation recognized the efforts of the Down Syndrome Association of Central Kentucky in raising awareness about Down syndrome in the community. Key speakers during this portion of the meeting included Mayor Newberry, who delivered the proclamation, and Michael Gilliland, who was also present for the item. The proclamation was informational in nature, with no debate or opposing concerns raised. No vote was required. ## Downtown Survey Presentation [timestamp: 21:21] Renee Jackson and Phil Osborne presented the results of a survey focused on downtown Lexington, covering public perceptions of the area and potential improvements. The presentation was informational in nature. No vote or formal action was taken as a result of this agenda item. *Note: Additional details from the presentation — including specific survey findings, data points, concerns raised, and any Council discussion — are not available in the source material for this summary.* ## Intergovernmental Committee Report [timestamp: 08:32] Council Member James delivered an update on recent discussions held by the Intergovernmental Committee, touching on several topics under the committee's purview. The report covered three primary areas of committee discussion: - **Temporary structures** — The committee addressed matters related to temporary structures, though specific details or policy decisions from those discussions were not elaborated upon in the available record. - **Grievances** — The committee reviewed grievance-related matters, indicating ongoing attention to dispute or complaint processes within the intergovernmental context. - **Employee compensation** — Compensation issues affecting employees were also a subject of committee discussion, reflecting continued engagement with workforce-related concerns. The report was informational in nature, with Council Member James serving as the sole presenter. No vote or formal action was taken as a result of this agenda item. --- ## Decisions - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Approval of the September 16, 2008 work session summary - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Approval of new business items - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Motion for building inspection to provide a list of businesses affected by the temporary structure proposal - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Approval of the NDF list dated September 23, 2008 - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Motion to direct the TIF Delegation to create a project summary and list of standards - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Motion to adjourn the work session --- ## Full transcript Order if we could please. The, uh, first item on the agenda is public comment on any issue that's on the agenda today. Does anyone wish to address the council? All right, seeing none, we'll move along. We do not have, uh, a docket approval today, but we do have a summary to approve. Is there a motion? Move approval, Mayor. Second. I have a motion by Council Member Gordon, a second by Council Member Stennet to approve the docket. Any discussion? Those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed, no? Motion carries. We have no budget amendments. We do have a few items of new business for consideration. Move for approval. Second. Council Member DeCamp's moved approval of those items and new business. Council Member Gordon has seconded. Is there any discussion? Lo- Council Member Ellinger? Yeah, the item on the living wage, does that makes, take care of all of the employees then? It'd be number- I'll let Mr. Allen address that. ... number G. It seems like we Yes, Council Member, there were 17 identified and that takes care of them all the way back retro. Thank you. Anything further? Then those in favor of approving the items and new business, please indicate by saying aye. Aye. Those opposed, no? Motion carries. Well- A secret. ... it is now my pleasure to, uh, make a brief presentation, and I'll ask Michael Gilliland if he'll join me at the podium. We have, uh, today some very special families representing a very special organization today. And they have an event coming up that I'm gonna let Michael Gilliland tell you just a little bit more about, but, uh, let me read a proclamation that I have, uh, prepared to share with him, and then I'll turn the podium over to Michael. Whereas Down Syndrome occurs in one out of every 733 births, and is a chromosomal abnormality, and whereas the Down Syndrome Association of Central Kentucky, a volunteer organization formed over 12 years ago, is comprised of healthcare professionals, parents, and siblings of individuals with Down Syndrome and others with an interest in addressing the needs of individuals with Down Syndrome, and whereas the Association was organized to enhance the lives of individuals with Down Syndrome by providing support, information and education to families, professionals, and communities in Central Kentucky. And whereas the Buddy Walk was established by the National Down Syndrome Society in 1995 to promote awareness and inclusion of individuals with Down Syndrome, and whereas the Sixth Annual Buddy Walk hosted by the local association will be at Keeneland Race Course to promote awareness of Down Syndrome and celebrate the capabilities of those born with Down Syndrome. Now, therefore, I, Jim Newberry, Mayor of the Lexington-Fayette Urban County Government do hereby proclaim Saturday, September 27th, 2008 as Down Syndrome Awareness and Buddy Walk Day, and urge all citizens and community agencies, the faith community, medical, medical facilities, and businesses to sponsor a team or volunteer to assist with the walk. Michael, best wishes. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Mayor. Just wanted to thank the mayor and the council members. Um, our children are beautiful, loved, and capable, and we appreciate all your support. Thank you. Thank you. I have a T-shirt, which I will, uh, wear when I'm out running, and I might see you on the 27th. Is that the right date? The 27th? Could you give us the time and the place? I know, but I just want- Keeneland and... Yes, I'm sorry. Keeneland on Saturday morning. Um, we... This Saturday coming up, we, uh, hope to have... There'll be a lot of fun activities out there. There'll be a lot of people out there, and the more the merrier, so bring them on out. We enjoy, we enjoy... We'd, uh, like for everyone to come. Uh, we'll try to bring them into our family. What time does it start? Uh, we start at 8:00. How about 9:30? The... 9:30 is the walk. You can show up as early as 8:00. And registration, yes. Thank you. Just you in the middle will be fine. Just a little bit apart. Thank you. Thank you very much, um, Michael, and the rest of the folks with, with the association, um, do great work here in our community. We are fortunate to be blessed with a lot of, uh, private organizations that do wonderful work in our community. And to the extent you can help them out on Saturday, I hope you will do so. Um, we have the Intergovernmental Committee Report. Councilmember James. Thank you, Mayor. The Intergovernmental Committee met on September the 16th. Um, we had a great meeting, and had three items, um, on our agenda for discussion. The first being temporary structures, the second being grievances, the grievance process, and the third being the employee compensation plan. Um, the discussion of the temporary structures, um, was based around a proposed draft amendment, um, to the zoning ordinance, um, that dealt specifically with temporary structures. Bill Sallee, um, from the Division of Planning talked to us about that, the fact that, um, currently we have nothing locally, um, that talks specifically about zoning ordinances of temporary structures in historic districts. Um, there had been a particular concern in a previous zone change that had brought this to the forefront. Um, so we felt as if our... Division of Planning brought forward a draft amendment which included, um, the language that would, um, help with all zoning in Lexington. Um, Bill Sallee stated that the pro- proposed draft would not affect the alter- um, alteration to current practice for temporary structure. Um, that is up to less than a couple of months. He stated that he felt, um, that if should be desired for, for that temporary structure to be up for longer than two months, but probably up to six month, that building code would then allow, um, would then, uh, would allow then that would probably rise to the level of where the Board of Adjustments would need to kick in and review the situation. Um, this had been something... There was a, uh, a point of clarification needed that when the init- when the issue came forward initially, it was, um, discussing an historic zone. Um, however, um, planning felt like it was important to deal with this issue on all zoning levels, um, because the all zoning levels are the underlying zones within historic divisions, within historic zonings. Um, so that was a, a question that one of the committee members had that we needed to address, and still need to address that. Um, we had a lot of committee questions that dealt with certificate of occupancy, um, building permits, um, or not... Certificate of, of occupancy, permits, and specifically H-1 overlay zones. Betty Kerr was there to speak on behalf of Historic Preservation. Um, she, uh, stated that... Um, she stated with that in mind, um, the thought of putting 60-day limit on calendar year for temporary structures, if something meets that definition for no more than 60 days total through the year, then it would not be reviewed by the Board of A- Architectural Review. If it goes to the Board of Adjustment for a longer peri- for a longer period, the public would have the opportunity to have their thoughts and comments known. Miss Kerr also stated that another aspect of the problem coming to the design review process of the H-1 overlay is that the guidelines, um, there are mechanisms that all applications are reviewed by, and based on things being appropriately scaled, appropriately placed on site, and being of compatible with the nature of... Being compatible materials of the character of the area. Um, so she was a little bit hesitant of including this in on the H-1 process as a standard, but thought that it would best fit under the Planning Department, and not specifically H-1. Um, Mr. Crow was also there from building inspection. Um, he talked that the -- currently the local ordinances don't address temporary structures. Mr. Crow stated that the building Kentucky code, um, states that temporary structure can be placed up to 180 days at a time, and that's what building inspection utilizes, um, for their enforcement. Um, Rochelle Bowen, um, spoke on behalf of the law department, um, and answered questions that council, the committee members had. Um, there were some good questions that came up that dealt with, um, whether an emergency temporary structure would be considered under this, um, whether some of our larger, um, parks, um, sports arenas and parks would play into this as well. So based on the questions that came out, there were, there was no action taken except for the motion that I will bring forward which a motion, was a motion by Council Member Crosby for building inspection to provide a list of businesses affected by this change, and also notify businesses that have received a temporary structure occupancy use permit within the last three years for public input at the November inter-governmental committee that was seconded by Council Member Stennett, and passed through the committee. And I bring that forward to you as a motion. I was listening, but I'm not sure I can repeat exactly what the essence of it was, so it might be helpful, Council Member James, if you could- The motion is to, for building inspection to provide a list of businesses affected by the proposed change and notify businesses that have received a temporary structure occupancy use permit within the last three years for public input at the November inter-governmental committee. Period. Okay. You've heard the motion now. Council Member Ellinger has second the motion. Is there any discussion? All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed, no? Motion carries. Thank you, Mayor. The second item was the grievance process. The committee members were given, um, a draft survey prepared by Leslie Jarvis of Human Resources. Um, this is, the draft is to, the survey is to address the grievance procedure and how employees, directors, um, and all of government, um, thinks, um, what they think of the grievance process, how to improve it, if they utilize it, um, things of that sort. Committee members had questions. Um, Leslie Jarvis was great to answer those questions for us. Um, those, um, surveys will go out in paychecks, um, once it is complete, once it's finalized. I have not received anything from Human Resources yet, um, by way of a, uh, final draft of that survey. But once I do have that survey, I'll bring that forward to the full council for review and approval. The third item we dealt with was just an update on the employee compensation plan. Wally Barker was great to give us an update of the employee compensation plan. Um, the council member, or committee members had questions regarding, um, when things will, if the reorg will happen at the same time as, um, pay for performance, that sort of thing. Wally Barker answered all of those questions for us. Um, he will continue to bring us updates as this project moves forward and stressed that it's going to be important that, um, this be a coordinated effort between, um, all divisions of all aspects of human resources, and he will start working with different divisions of government to get this employee compensation plan, um, brought forward and have it happening. He did state that, um, the co- he was asked when paid for performance, when we would see that, and responded that, um, fiscal year 2010 would be when we would see that pay for performance go into effect as well as all the other, all the other, um, suggestions for compensation plan changes. And we ended at three o'clock, and that's it. Oh, I do want to add under the, um, employee compensation plan that there was a question about why we can't do bonuses for performances, and Commissioner Koh said that they would have law department look into that, so we'll look forward to their, their response on that. Thank you, Mayor. Mr. Mayor, I had a question. Council Member Stevens. Uh, Councilwoman James, under, on your report on page three through, uh, six is a copy of the, uh, changes to the ordinances that the, that staff brought forward from the various divisions that would address the use of temporary structures. Uh, do you plan on having that on your docket for the next meeting? I'm sorry, I don't, I don't know where, where you're referring. On your report on page, attached to- Oh. On page three. Um, no, I wasn't expecting to bring that as part of it, but, um, would you like to have someone come and speak on that at this time? No, I said were you going to bring it forth on your docket for your next committee meeting? I'm sorry, I'm really confused right now. Can you- Yes, you, when this, when your committee meets next, will you have that on the agenda? Um, I don't know. Well, I would request that you do so because I think this ordinance would resolve the problems that we have and needs to be discussed and considered by the council. And you can make that recommendation if you so choose. That's fine, if you'd like to bring that forward. Well, I move that, uh, this ordinance be placed, uh, on the docket for consideration by the council. I'm confused also because I'm not sure what, uh, I want the chairman to tell me what she would like to do with this. Um, I'm sorry. I'm not prepared to answer that right now. I'm sorry. I don't- Okay. I don't know. Do you care to deal with the ordinance in the committee, is, I think is the question, right? I think that's fine. And the motions, yeah, the motions come forward, so I guess that's... Were you waiting? Do I need to make that motion or can someone else make that? No, I'll make it. Okay. But that over, but I don't want to do it if you object to it. I... You can make the motion, that's fine. Okay. I move that the ordinances outlined in the Intergovernmental Committee Report, pages three through six, be placed on the docket for consideration and voted by the council. Do I hear a second? Council Member Blevins has seconded Dr. Stevens' motion to add that ordinance to the docket of the Intergovernmental Committee. Correct? Uh, no. Council? I'm sorry. All right. Well, we will add that to... The proposal then is to add it to the next work session docket? Yes. All right, got it. Thank you. I'm sorry for the confusion. I was lost there for a moment. Thank you. All right. Um, any discussion on that issue? All right. Those... Pardon me, Council Member Myers. Thank you, Mayor. Is the committee done with its work? The committee is not done with its work, um, because we're waiting to hear back. Um, as far as I know, we were waiting to get the, to make sure that we had the list of businesses and we were gonna be discussing this on November, in the November Intergovernmental Committee. I, uh, I would be happy to withdraw my motion if, if there's no objection, if, if the committee is going to continue considering this. Okay. I just don't want it to die. And, and that adds, I think, I'm sorry, Mayor, but that adds to, that's why I was kind of confused because I had stated that the motion, um, was to come back in November at the Intergovernmental Committee, so... But I was willing to let your motion go forward if you wanted to bring it. All right, Council Member- Thank you. Blevins has, I think, agreed to the withdrawal of that motion. So, um, unless there are further questions, we'll move on with the next presentation. Anything further? All right. I believe we now have a presentation scheduled on the leaf vacuuming. Is this Mr. Drakeford that's going to, uh, share with us today? Thank you. Mayor, I hope I have this information right, but I believe that's been postponed until next Tuesday. All right. I didn't get the message, but- Oh, okay. -appreciate you bringing me up to speed. Okay. Then we'll move on with the downtown, um, um, survey presentation, Ms. Jackson. Mayor and council, um, earlier this summer, we received $950 through a neighborhood development fund allocation from the Urban County Council to help with this survey. So we wanted to bring the results to you today so that you could, um, share in those. And if anybody needs a copy of the executive summary or any more details, they'll be happy to provide that. And I will let Phil Osborne with Preston Osborne explain the methodology and all the results. Thanks. Uh, this was a random telephone survey conducted, uh, as Renee said earlier this summer. Random selection process, we completed 400 interviews countywide. We tried to segregate inside and outside New Circle Road with a fairly even balance, and then weighed accordingly. The results you'll see are based on that 400 samples, so the margin of error is plus or minus 4.9, if anybody's keeping score on it. Um, without exception, all of these percentages are expressed as that, as percentages. In some cases, they won't equal 100 because of rounding or when multiple answers were allowed. And basically, the purpose of the survey was to get a sense for what people think about downtown. Rene's group is responsible for increasing the vibrancy and vitality of downtown. I'm sorry, Mr. Blevins, you had a question? Thank you. I would just... Uh, I was gonna ask, at some point whether downtown was defined. No, sir. And that's part of the problem. Downtown has no definition at this point. Okay. We'll get to a slide on that in a minute that shows you just how diverse downtown is considered for landmarks that are relatively the same distance from the center of town. Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt. No, that's fine. Um, where do I point this back here? Oh, sorry. First of all, we tried to quantify what kind of relationship the respondents had with the downtown community. The colors are kind of fuzzy there to see, but the big slice of the pie there, 82% neither live nor work in the downtown area. Yeah, okay. This is the frequency with which they go to the downtown community. And again, downtown is self-defined right now by the respondent. Uh, again, the big chunk there is once or twice a year or less. So downtown is not this attraction for many people in the community. The activities that bring people downtown, dining is number one, business or work number two, that includes business conducted with government, uh, businesses down there separately with 26%. But you can see there's no big hue and cry about what brings people into the downtown community. Going on to the next chart, 3% of the population that we surveyed never comes downtown. You know, with the ease of transi- transacting business with government, for example, by mail, in some cases, there's no purpose to come downtown at all anymore. One of the things that we have as a challenge, or I like to look at it as opportunity, is how do we position downtown to be that attraction and to draw people not only from Fayette County, but from other communities in central Kentucky to enjoy the downtown environment. Now, this is what I was referencing earlier about the landmarks. If you look at Transy and UK, they're about equal distant from the center of town. And yet 82% believe Transy's downtown, but UK's not. Same is true with Lexington Cemetery and Henry Clay's Estate, about the same distance from the center of town, 51% think the cemetery's downtown, but only 33% that Ashl- think that Ashland is downtown. So part of what we're talking about, uh, and you've heard the presentation before on the streetscape issue, is start to define districts within the downtown community. You know, they've referred to the Transylvania Corridor till UK as the Collegetown District, Cheapside Entertainment District, the Triangle District, and start to create this sense that there are all these things downtown, and we can then start to self-define it. Uh, we've had the discussion about Applebee's. You know, Applebee's is fairly well out Broadway, still inside New Circle, but right on the border of the Northside Neighborhood Association. So is Applebee's Park Downtown? It is if we start to define it that way. So that's part of what we're gonna be working with Renee over the next few months is how to develop the message to define exactly what is the downtown community and what those downtown districts are and should be. Now, let me explain this... I'm sorry, Mr. Beard. That's okay, Phil. I just, just for clarification before you mo- went moved there. Okay. Chevy Chase, I assume you're referencing the Chevy Chase shopping area. No, sir. Actually, the Chevy Chase neighborhood area. The neighborhood? Yes, sir. Okay. And Ashland is- That's Henry Clay's Estate. ...Henry Clay's Estate. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Let me explain the scale on this next one. Um, we've come to adapt a seven-point scale on basic measures that we do in terms of patient satisfaction, customer satisfaction. In this case, we define seven as being excellent and one as being poor. And we asked the respondents to rate attributes associated with any downtown community, this specific to Lexington. Now, over the course of the years, what we've come to do is accept sixes and sevens as positive. Anything less than six is compromised a little bit. And obviously, the closer you get to one, the poorer things are. This also presents a tremendous opportunity for us because there's a lot of apparent misperception about downtown. Especially with the streetscape project and what's going to be done in preparation for the games, these numbers should be huge by the time we get into 2010. I was joking with one of our staff members, if I were outside this community looking at moving into Lexington and I saw these numbers, I'd never consider it. You know, it's getting scary when you get down to 18% think nightlife options are good in this community, 7% think parking is good. I didn't have any problem with parking when I came here today. I parked on Esplanade and walked a block and a half. Just hope I get back before the two-hour meter expires. But those are issues that Renee's organization will be trying to develop message around in order to overcome some of these misperceptions. This looks at the same set of attributes based on where people, what, what kind of relationship they have downtown. The lighter bar represents those people who either live and or work in the downtown community. And again, downtown is self-defined. And the khaki color is those who don't have anything to do with downtown in terms of their, their residence or their work environment. And you can see there's some pretty drastic differences. On dining, for example, almost four in ten who are exposed to downtown think we have good town di- I mean, good downtown dining options. One of the open-ended comments, I remember, was we need a good French restaurant downtown. Well, there are good French restaurants downtown. They obviously haven't come down to find them. Uh, but you do see some subtle differences in some of them, pretty stark on the dining option as an example. Again, the nightlife entertainment as being good or excellent. Those who are exposed to downtown on a more frequent basis give it a higher rating than those who are not. This segregates it by inside/outside New Circle Road, as, in terms of where they live. And again, you can see some differences there back especially on dining. And to a lesser extent on the nightlife option here. So it, it's pervasive. Frankly, it's countywide, with the exception of the entertainment and dining interests were pretty much lockstep with each other regardless of what kind of relationship we have with downtown or where we live. So again, we look at it as challenge, yes, but opportunity, especially with all the excitement that's going to be generated over the next few years, use that excitement as a catalyst and leverage to make people more aware of what happens downtown, provide them with more options, give them a better experience when they come here. This is excuse me, this is segregated by how often they visit the downtown community. The dark bar, those that are less often than once a month, and the lighter bar, at least monthly. And you can see even more dramatic differences here. Safety during the evening is not a concern so much to people who frequent downtown, but it is to people who don't. That's a misperception. The dining options, arts and cultural activities, big gap there between those who experience downtown and those who don't. Again, the nightlife/entertainment option, pretty dramatic difference there. The one issue that keeps showing up and the one issue somebody predicted before we ever went in the field with a survey, the biggest problem in Lexington is going to be parking and shopping in downtown. Again, it's a perception issue, not a real issue. And what we have to do is move to overcome perceptions. Uh, I had an intern visit with the city planning office this morning, just to give you an example, and I didn't have time to put it down in the presentation, but just to give you an example, we took the footprint of Fayette Mall. ... and had them measure the distance from the furthest parking lot away from Dillard's to Dillard's. And it's a distance of about one-third of a mile. Then they overlaid it with the downtown, using the financial center as the center, and went one-third of a mile in each direction. This is the list of the restaurants, shops, entertainment options, cultural activities, or attractions you can walk to from the financial center, just as you would walk from the parking lot to Dillard's during Christmas when you can only find one spot out there near Nicholasville Road. So, it's the perceptual issue that we have to help people understand. Way, somebody explained it to me recently, if you're at the mall or you're at Hamburg, you can see your destination. If I'm standing in front of the government center, I can't see over on Vine Street, so it's a long way away for me to walk. So again, it's a matter of getting people comfortable with their environment and getting them on their feet. We asked people about the convenience of parking, knowing parking's going to be an issue. If you add those first three col- first three columns together, 56% of people we surveyed think that walking any further than one block to get to their destination is inconvenient. Now, again, they'll walk from the parking lot of Fayette Mall from one end to the other, but they won't walk more than one block to get to a downtown destination. That's an issue we have to overcome with the people themselves. When they do come downtown, most of them stay less than an hour. Or, I'm sorry, the plurality, 41% between one and two hours. I think now that most of the parking meters are being converted to two-hour meters, that's going to be even more pronounced as we go on, because people will start to discover downtown opportunities to work, shop, play. And this is a concept we put on there for the, um, Parking Authority as to how likely people would be to use credit cards or debit cards to pay for parking, either on street level parking with meters or on the, or surface lots. And you can see the numbers are fairly significant in support of that, ah, parking by credit card or debit card. So, the big snapshot is we've got a lot of misperceptions out there that have to be corrected. We have a lot of work to educate people about the opportunities that are downtown for them to enjoy. Um, you know, Renee's group is working very closely with the Parking Authority on how to promote the parking that is available downtown and overcome that misperceptual issue. And, um, take advantage, as I said, of all the exciting things that are going to be gearing up and ramping up in the next two years as we get ready for the games, to use that as a catalyst to get more people engaged in what's happening downtown, what's growing in downtown, the shopping that can come in, the restaurants that can come in, the attractions, the nightlife, et cetera, and more or less reinvent what people think of Downtown Lexington, so that if we replicate this survey three years, four years, five years from now, the highest attribute we have will still be something greater than 40%, not less than 40% as it is this year. So with that, I'd be happy to entertain any other questions you may have. Thank you very much. Ah, I have Council Member James on the list. Thank you, Mayor. Um, thank you for the presentation. On the slide where you, um, where it showed, um, Herald-Leader is identified as being downtown and then Transylvania second, um, were the respondents given, um, choices? Was it multiple choice? Um, or did they just chime in with whatever place they thought was downtown? No, we read the name of the, the attraction and they just said yes or no, it is downtown. And how were- So, the bar that you saw up there were the actual yes responses. And how were those... How or why were those names chosen, and those specific destinations chosen? We worked with Renee on defining them. So basically, we've got a UK and Transy as the north and south pole, and then throw in the Red Mile and Applebee's for a little bit different perspective, and then the cemetery and Ashland as the east-west. Um, you know, you've heard the streetscape presentation where the, the first priority on streetscape is Vine to... Vine to Lime and Broadway to... is it Esplanade or Elm Tree? I can't remember now. And then north and south from 3rd to Euclid. Okay. So that's how KKG is defining downtown, at least for the initial streetscape. What this does now is give us, okay, we can expand to Transy, we can expand to UK, go out to Ashland, go out to the cemetery and call that downtown, and basically create those districts within that downtown piece of the county. Okay. And with that slide, do you have a similar slide as you do with the others that show the relationship of the respondent? No, but I'd be happy to get that to you. Okay. I would love that. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor. Council Member Beard. Thank you. Uh, Phil, a little bit about your, y- y- your technique. You said you had 200 people from outside of New Circle Road and 200... Roughly 200 each, yes. Um, are those two discrete universes or did you pull them together to ask these other questions? They were all asked the same questions. What you're looking at today are the weighted averages of all respondents. It's only when we separated it by inside/outside on those comparison... well, that comparison bar, we segregated it, but otherwise they're all blended together. Is there any value, or would it be interesting to know, or maybe you've already done this, uh, i- if you were to make them two discrete universes and apply those other questions to them, how, if any other, uh, information is uncovered by doing that? We will do that. That's one of the crosstabs that we're sharing with, with Renee now. Ah, we're still going through some of the analysis to, to see exactly how we do this, but I suspect... ... uh, the question Ms. James asked is correct, that we're gonna see some big differences on some of what is a downtown landmark. Yeah. Some of this information's quite valuable also in some of our discussions concerning government center and, um, how our citizens perceive downtown and, and where we put the government center and, and what amenities we add to it or, or not. Um, this is very interesting. I'd be happy to share a set of crosstabs that looks at that specifically. Um, can, are we gonna have hard copy of that at some point, or can we have hard, hard copy of- We have hard copy of the report. You can have hard copy of the crosstabs. Oh, okay. Okay. Thank you. I can give you a CD with everything on it that you can just print off- No, I, I must have it. I did ... it ... it's somewhere. It just hadn't gotten into my folder. Okay. Thank you. Council member McCord. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Phil for all the work so far o- on this. Would you, uh, go back to the very first slide that showed that 82% and just, I want you to camp out on that number one more time and, and just kinda stress what that, what that pie chart shows. The, uh ... But again, the green is a little difficult for me to see. The, the little piece of pie there, that's the 3%, those are people who both live and work downtown. The 11% work downtown, but don't live here. The 5%, uh, live downtown but work elsewhere. And then the 82% neither live nor work downtown. Okay. And, and I think that's, that, that was the slide that really jumped out at me, is, is, eh, so many folks in Lexington don't have that tie to what really is our common space. Uh, you know, I, I joke all the time with Council Member Stennet that folks from the ninth district don't generally go out to Hamburg and folks from Hamburg don't come over to Fayette Mall as frequently, but the one thing that we do have in common is, is downtown and, uh, Congressman Chandler said, you know, the, the key to his district, the key to his congressional district is Downtown Lexington. So I think it's really important that that 82% start to really become educated as to what is in downtown, but also that as we keep talking about, uh, what we're doing, uh, as it relates to, uh, Center Point and to, uh, Distillery District and to other things up and down the line, um, that is why it's so absolutely critical what CLEET is doing, uh, this master planning of downtown, because we have this great shot at redoing it and redoing it the right way and building in, uh, the right types of amenities and infrastructure, uh, and, and street patterns and so forth, and that this council and this administration has the opportunity to do that, so again, I just wanna point out that, uh, as you said, and I appreciate the way you said it, that it presents a challenge, but you'd rather look at this immense opportunity, uh, which is how I, I look at this as well, that we have a, a great opportunity to educate folks on what is here, but what is coming here. And I think folks can get excited when they see, uh, see that pattern, and, and we need to do everything in our power to help educate that 82%. Thank you. You're welcome. Council Member Gordon. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you very much- You're welcome. ... Phil. Um, could we go back to the slide, uh, percentage of respondents who consider certain landmarks to be part of downtown, and would you tell me again what you said about ... Um, did, did you have secondary numbers about government center? Was government center included as one of the- No, it was not. It was not included. No, it's not. So we don't know ... Do we have any information from the survey about whether people perceive the government center as a downtown entity in this survey? No, we didn't include anything ab- I don't recall ... We didn't include anything about the government center. Okay. Um, then my other question goes back to what Council Member McCord just said. Um, if you think of Hamburg, the area of Hamburg and people who live right there, um, and I don't live near there, so I don't go there very much, um, but there really is everything there that a person could need, it's my perception, uh, from banking to, uh, restaurants to shopping to, you know, w- whatever people need. So for me, the question would be, what's different downtown that you can't get in your neighborhood area? And I guess I'm wondering if you've got any sense of that sort of information. Does this, does what I'm saying make sense? It does. 'Cause I think most people, average American, it's my perception the average American will do things close to where they live, and, you know, on weekends, run errands and go eat and do things close to where they live. That's kind of an, uh, my view of average American. I think a lot of people here in this council chamber may not necessarily do that. But I guess for me, the question becomes then, what do we do to entice people downtown for something different that they don't have in Hamburg or near Fayette Mall or near- Well, there are a couple, couple different approaches to that, and that's one of the things that we'll be working with Renee on. Part of it will be what is unique to downtown, and part of it will be the level of service a downtown merchant can afford a customer versus a franchised operation in, I'm not picking on Hamburg, but you raised Hamburg. Most of the stores in Hamburg, including the restaurants, are franchised operations that are, you know- ... multi-state, multinational in some cases, as opposed to the unique qualities you see in some of the downtown dining options, some of the downtown shopping options, even some of the downtown banking options. Mm-hmm. I'm getting ready to open a new account for a new business, and I called a banker friend of mine who just happens to be the CEO. He's gonna personally walk my wife to see the new business startup manager. Mm-hmm. And I don't know that I'd get that same kinda response if I just dropped in on somebody at Hamburg. Mm-hmm. So i- i- it's making what is uniquely Lexington uniquely downtown. And, you know, with all due respect, if you go to th- I can't even remember the name of it, the big mall out on, um, east end of Louisville, it's just, pick up Hamburg and drop it down in Jefferson County. It's not unique to Jefferson County, just as Hamburg is not uniquely Lexington. Now, I think that's what we have to take advantage of in defining what is and describing what is downtown. So your whole, your survey then presupposes that, ef- if, you tell me if this is correct or not, presupposes that anyone, any Lexingtonian or Fayette Countian would come downtown if the right things were there to entice people. If there were more compelling options and opportunities for them, then yes, I would agree that anybody in Fayette County becomes our target audience, regardless of whether they live south end, north end, way out Winchester Road, they become part of our target audience. The same is true of neighboring communities, because, you know, there are few facilities in a Georgetown or a Winchester or a Richmond that are unique to those locations. But, you know, showing my age here, I grew up in Winchester, and a big weekend for us was to come to downtown Lexington to shop and dine. Mm-hmm. And sometimes my parents just put me on the train to get rid of me for the weekend. And, uh, but, you know, it was unique to, to downtown Lexington. There were shops, there were restaurants, there were stores that we couldn't find in Winchester. They didn't have 'em in Georgetown. They didn't have 'em in Versailles. So it's, again, creating unique opportunities for people to enjoy that downtown experience, either through shopping, through sporting events, cultural arts events, uh, restaurants and other nightlife entertainment options. We have to create the reason to come downtown, and then it's not one of those, if you build it, they will come, but if you build it, they will be more likely to come, in my estimation. Mm-hmm. Well, I'm a great proponent of downtown, and my family and I come here a lot downtown 'cause I think there are a lot of good things down here. And I, I, I want to get to where you're going, that everybody has a reason to come down. And so, um, I guess with these results, I'm wondering what you see as how this will be used, or where, where will we go with this, or is there a follow-up survey, or... We're gonna start working on these. Again, as a resident of the community and somebody who's lived in central Kentucky almost my entire life, for the highest rated attribute of the downtown Lexington community to be less than 40% is embarrassing. Mm-hmm. Now, I don't know if that's a function of what's happened in downtown in the past few years or people have just written it off, but we have to change that opinion, because it should be way higher than 38%. Overall appearance, 30%. Safety during the evening, 28%. That is pure misperception or misconception. You know, those are the things that we have to start fixing, and it'll cost a lot in terms of bricks and mortar when you're trying to overcome perceptual issues. You know, a- and if we get people feeling more comfortable in it, we'll find that they will come down for the dining opportunities, because people who are exposed to it, as you saw in those comparison bars, people who have a downtown relationship know that we have superior dining options to some of the franchise operations. So w- we will be attacking the, the misunderstanding or the misperceptions about it, and to your all's credit, you're taking on the real issues about the bricks and mortar and the streets and the, um, tr- uh, stoplights, street lamps, I couldn't think of the word, the street lamps, and all those issues rolled up into that downtown master plan. So you're building the infrastructure. It's gonna be our responsibility to build the anticipation and the desire, and then hopefully the two collide and we have great experiences to offer people when they come downtown. Thank you. Council Member Lane. Thank you, Mayor. Uh, I think it would be appropriate just to say that Preston Osborn is one of the top research companies in, uh, Kentucky, and we're very fortunate to have 'em here in Lexington. So, uh, thank you for being here, Phil. I, I had, uh, just a couple of quick questions. Uh, you, you based your survey on a residential household telephone survey. Correct. And w- with technology changes where a lot of people now have cell phones, and in many cases, younger people versus older, uh, did you do something to adjust your study by age or anything, or did you just- We weight by age to try and balance it out, because typically, we do find many of the younger folks do not have landlines. That's a problem for us in the research business that's getting bigger and bigger every day. All right. Uh, Congress, in its infinite wisdom, passed some kind of legislation that prohibits us from calling a cell phone unsolicited from a list. Um, so y- it does make it challenging, but we to- do try to weight it to pick up that younger end of the demographic scale. And then the other question I had is you were weighing the, the central business district versus the suburban areas. Could there be a major income differential there, or maybe the suburban area still has a higher household income, and therefore, their spending patterns might be different, or is that a factor in your study? Well, we'd have to go back and look at it by ZIP code, which is the best way Census Bureau has to sort it, but y- Yeah, I think you'll find it fairly balanced. We'll go back and look at it and you'll have a set of the crosstabs that we'll send, send down to the council office. But, you know, when you look at the top 10 per capita income zip codes in the state, uh, I think number two is the 40513, which is out Harrisburg Road and beyond, and then number five is the 40502, which is Chevy Chase. So there's inside, outside, new circle, but it's still kind of balanced in terms of buying power. Okay. Uh, the other question I had, y- you're familiar with the streetscape, uh, plan for downtown, and I think one of the proposals was to create a major, uh, entrance on the east and west side of town so that when people come into downtown, they'll know they're in downtown. Um, based on your survey, have you got any comment on that proposal, whether that would be a good idea from your perspective? I think to the extent you can define the downtown area by districts, as Cleve's talked about on a number of occasions, that's what works. Um, you know, if you've ever spent any time in the Portland, Oregon area, for example, they define their, their downtown communities by numerous different districts, the Pearl District and the shopping district or something else. It's been a while since I've been out there. But, you know, if you put an entrance at Newtown and you put an entrance at Midland on the main street, basically you've defined downtown then for people. And my, my last question is, we are changing our parking policy in downtown. I'm, I'm not sure what the current policy is for in the evening, but generally there's been no charge for using meter parking spaces in the evenings. And then during the day, we are strictly enforcing a limitation on the meters so that we didn't have employees just staying in one meter all day long. And I've noticed since I work downtown, there's a lot more parking downtown. Do you feel that that's something we need to promote to maybe help overcome a negative of not having that enou- enough available parking downtown? I think it's certainly something that should be promoted and something I think the parking authority's already considering doing. Um, there again, when you go back and look at that one stat that 56% of people says it's inconvenient to walk more than a block, that's a problem. You know, hot day like today, okay. That's why I didn't put the jacket on until late, but, you know, Esplanade is not that far from here. I had no problem finding a parking spot and getting here in time for the meeting. Um, two years ago, I might have had a problem. So i- it's another educational issue that we have to make people aware that there are those spaces downtown, that the parking authority is strictly enforcing the two-hour limit or the one-hour limit where that still exists. And, um, even some of the commercial parking garages are open for free on nights and weekends. I don't think a lot of people know that. I went to a weekend event couple years ago and didn't realize the Chase parking garage was open and drove around the block for 30 minutes trying to find something. I don't notice the gate up. I, I do have one, uh, last question is, in your survey, did you have a, a question that asked what people would like to have downtown? Yes. Um, did I miss that in there? No, it's, it was an open-ended response and it's page after page after page of recommendations, uh, a lot of which was more parking and the one I referenced earlier, a good French restaurant. Uh, but th- that'll be included in the, in the CD that we send over, will be all those open-ended responses. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. Appreciate it, Phil. Council Member Crosby. Thank you, Mayor. Um, I'd like to say that I'm a little surprised by the 82% of, of your survey that neither live or work downtown or the fact that 41% come downtown u- uh, two times a year or less, but, um, just to illustrate this fact, I was driving on a field trip a few weeks ago and had a car full of kids in my car and we were driving through downtown and we went by Triangle Park and they were all just shocked when they saw the fountains and I was amazed as a parent that these, half these kids in the car had never seen the fountains. I, I literally had to slow down and stop so that they could see those fountains and that was a very telltale sign to me that if these kids haven't been down there, their parents probably are not coming down here with them. So clearly the families out, or some of the families out in my district are not coming downtown for entertainment purposes or any purpose maybe. But, um, as far as the survey goes, um, I've, I've, uh, sat in on lots of different discussions with different groups who've conducted surveys. Um, one that comes to mind is the Downtown Entertainment Task Force. Um, I know we've heard lots of different things from our streetscape plans, from Cleve, um, World Equestrian Games. I mean, it's, we've had survey after survey after survey. How are these groups, how are you all working together? W- who is this survey being distributed to within these groups and how are you all working together? And maybe Renee might be ... She, I see her coming up to the mic. Um, to, to see that something actually comes out of this because I hear all these different things and they all, and they all pretty much say the same thing really, but it seems like we're, all these different groups are all kind of doing the same types of surveys. Well, I think I can safely say that, especially the one that the Downtown Entertainment Task Force did, that was done by students and they didn't do something that was statistically valid. I mean, they did surveys, but, you know, it wasn't- I'm just saying surveys in general as they- Right. ... relate to downtown, and I guess, l- let me clarify my question. H- how are you distributing this within those different groups? Do you all share, cross-pollinate your, your- Yes. I've done it- ... information so that whether there's a statistically significant or not, I'm sure it still has value to what we're trying to do downtown? Yes. This came up. I, I told the Downtown Entertainment Task Force that we were gonna do this. They've asked that Phil come and present to them so that they can hear these findings and I sit in on many of those same committees and I've... ... want to assure you that we want to take this and share it with anybody who would want the information. I think Jamie, Jamie Millard at that task force meeting said, "We should do a survey." And I said, "Wait, we've already done it. Let's not spend that money." We did this not for the DLC, but for all of downtown and we asked Charlie Boland for his information that he got from the 2040 study because downtown scored very highly on that. And I've given that information over to Phil, so that as we go forward, we can kind of look. And anybody who's done research, I believe there was some research done by the Streetscape that was mentioned, um, here a few weeks ago. So we'd like to get all of that and, and use it and then move forward with the plan to actually get people to come downtown. Since, um, as you can imagine, where we get bombarded with so many, so much different information from different groups, it's nice sometimes when you all can pull it together or at least come together as a united front because what maybe one group might have as their information, another group may have it as their information, trying to see how it all fits together. Um, as I explained to, to one task force I met with, um, you know, h- how does it all fit together when we are seeing different groups coming to us with, with some of the same information, but relatively different information and it doesn't appear that you all seem to be... You all want to do the same thing, but it doesn't always appear that everybody's working. Yeah. I absolutely agree, and I, I do see that overlap and because I sit on so many different committees, boards and task forces. And I definitely want it to be shared and we will be putting it up for anybody to use, but hopefully also pulling all that other information to try to come up with a plan that we can move forward with. And then I would also like to ask if we could get a copy of not just the crosstabs, but also the open-ended question, um, of what Council Member Lane also asked about. Sure. Thank you. Okay. Council Member Blues. Thank you, Mayor. I, I just have a short question and that is, you, y- you said earlier that you could provide us with discs. Yes, sir, we can burn all this to a CD. That'd be great 'cause we could see the charts in color and, and, and so on. So if we- What I'll do when I get back to the office is get a master disc burned that has all the crosstabs, the open-ended responses, the PowerPoint presentation, and the executive summary of the, um, the report itself. And I'll just have it burned and send it to the council office and they can have it distributed to the members. Great. Really appreciate that. Okay. I think this is very helpful. Council Member Beard. I'm sitting over here still digest- digesting, Phil. And not just Phil, I'd like to, my colleagues to study on this a little bit. 82% neither work nor live downtown. Uh, with a 400 sampling, that's 72 people who do and 328 who don't. And I guess my observation is if that's the case, uh, there are a huge silent majority that we did not hear or did not weigh in on the historical issues that we've been going through or the center point issues because they just don't care. They're totally divorced from what's going on down here and they just don't care. They do pay taxes however, and there's a whole lot of folks, but they just don't happen to care. Uh, the reason why you're able to find a parking place as opposed to two years ago is there are 800 Chase employees that aren't there anymore over the parking garage and they were the meter feeders that used to inundate this end of town with running down and, and feeding the meters all day because they couldn't afford, uh, they were lower level employees and couldn't afford to, uh, to park in a parking garage. So that, um, in, in proximity to the Chase Bank is, um, pro- probably why that was, uh, Escalade was easy for you uh, today. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor. Council Member Stevens. Uh, I just wanted to, uh, speak to, uh, Council Member Gordon's observation and what I kind of have a take on it. And I think the thing that makes downtowns different from Hamburg or, or, uh, other malls is the streetscape. And that's what draws people downtown and keeps them there. You know, humans are kind of like monkeys. We like to congregate in crowds and, uh, uh, and if there are people there, uh, I think that will draw other people downtown. And I don't go down... I don't necessarily think one destination does it. I think when you get there, the feeling of the right streetscape really will attract people. And I can remember when I was a kid, I didn't catch the train from Winchester, but I did catch a streetcar from South Global down to 4th Street. And it took all our money to get down there and back, but we'd just go downtown so we could congregate on the street and the crowds and, and see what was there. And, and I went to medical school about a half a block off Michigan Avenue in downtown Chicago and, and that street is still very vibrant and it's not just, uh, the attractions or the destinations. I think people in that, that city like to go down there just to be in the crowd and congregate. So I think our streetscape may be one of the keys to this and it's what we need to do, as well as residential density. I think European cities, you go on one of the main streets in any of those towns and it's crowded. There's a lot of people live there and of course they like to take a stroll. That's good. Thanks. Vice Mayor Gray. Thank you, Mayor. Um, actually, Phil, I wanted to ask a question about the, um, just a... you as an authority in this field. Um- And let me put it into context of my own experience of just looking at, at polls and so forth and data over time. Um, one of the problems that I have with, or challenges that I have when making many conclusions from one poll is what is that, how is that relative to other periods in time, for example, or other benchmarks? And what this drove me to asking, I don't know whether this is something that might be done or not, but in cities that are comparable to what we think Lexington might become in terms of demographically, uh, in terms of population numbers and so forth, where the, uh, where some sense of transformation has occurred and there is greater vitality and energy in the downtown and hence there's been greater economic activity, for example, would we be able to take these same questions and maybe get some, if we did a poll, for example, in Green, in Greenville or in, um, in Austin perhaps? You know, what, what would that tell us? If you use straight up apples and apples comparisons, it tells where we rated relative to the opinions of the Austin residents or the Greenville residents. Um, if, if it's a community that has undergone the transformation you alluded to, I would suspect we'd see numbers a lot higher than the ones we're demonstrating here in Lexington. So that's our charge and purpose is to do the necessary things both on the infrastructure side, which is your all's responsibility, and on the, the message and imaging side, which is Renee's, to make the two work together so that, again, we come back and do this same survey five years from now, we see numbers in the 50s or 60s as opposed to the 30s. But it would be possible to go into an Austin, a Madison, and, um, Greenville, or Asheville, and, and get comparable numbers just to have a basis of comparison. They may have some that would- That already exist that would- ... that already exist that would be good benchmarks. Yeah. Thank you. Eight students, 113 students. Phil, I just had one question. Uh, excuse me, Council Member James. Yes, Mayor, thank you. I just had one other, um, observation is a lot of my district is, um, in what subjectively my residents call downtown. I call where I live downtown, um, but it's not really within any of the areas that are defined there. Maybe close to Transy, but I wouldn't say that I live in, in Transy District or anything like that. Um, but I think it's important as we take stats like this where 82% of the folks don't live or work downtown, that any way that you move forward from here that you don't discount the needs and the desires of the residents that, um, um, s- that live near that area who weren't, if out of the 3% that live and work downtown or whatever the percentage was that live downtown, that you really have to take, um, you really have to consider strongly what they say. Because I am fearful if we take a lot of information, I know it's important to get information Lexington-wide, but we don't want, I don't want downtown to be a place that's nice to visit but I don't want to live there kind of concept. Um, because you get into, um, what I've seen in some northern cities, I used to live up north, um, where there's a hot spot and then there's dilapidation and, um, underutilized housing stock and not money put into surrounding areas, but, um, infiltrated or injected into areas where people we think will come, um, to visit and to play and to enjoy entertainment. But you can't forget that core area folks that live and who support the infrastructure needs in that surrounding area through which people drive to get to that location and destination. So, um, where I'd be really interested in the zip code, um, zip codes that responded similar to the streetscape, that was one of my concerns is with the two-way streets versus one-ways, how many of those folks actually lived on one-way streets versus two-ways. And I'm very interested in looking at that surrounding community data as well in response to this survey. I'm 99% sure we included a zip code sort on the questionnaire. Uh, if we did, I'll have our research office segregate by zip code, so you can look, look at the results of that by zip as well. And if I didn't, I apologize. Okay. Thank you. We didn't do. Okay. Thanks. Phil. Back. Go ahead, Renee. Council Member Crosby, uh, one of my colleagues just reminded me that as part of the Downtown Entertainment Task Force when they did that RHI study, they actually looked at areas of overlap and they created a matrix, which I haven't seen, but it looked it overlapped, so I would be happy to get a copy of that and get that to you. Well, that would be my point that maybe when we do all these surveys that all these different groups need to see them and be included and, um- Well, and again, they didn't do the same kind of survey, but they are looking at the same issues and I will point out, which I've discussed with Phil, one issue that this council could take on right now that would help with a lot of these, um, things is the sign ordinance. I mean, change the sign ordinance and let people know where the parking garages are. When you drive over to Louisville, there's big signs that say Park and there, you can stand at the corner of Main Street and Limestone and look north and not know that there are eight restaurants that you could go into. So, I mean, that's the kinda thing that we hope to bring out of this, but, I mean- That should ... ... we ... The sign ordinance is one area that almost everything has identified. So, we are definitely hoping to change that. And, and those would be recommendations based, I think, on all those different ... I mean, I think if you put together all these groups and looked at all the different studies and all the different surveys and all the different things you've brought before us, that you all could probably come together with some pretty decent recommendations as a united group, versus us getting different recommendations from all over the board, from all these different, um, different groups and, and come together as one, so we have an overall united plan for what we see happening downtown, versus one group thinking this might be the best thing and another group ... And I know you're in agreeance with this, but, uh, you just, you just gave- I would be happy ... ... you just gave us a perfect example of, "I didn't see this study," and I think that, that your- Well- ... your suggestion with this ... with the sign ordinance, I mean those are things that you should be bringing forward to us, maybe out of all these recommendations. Thank you. Okay. I had, uh, just a couple of questions, Phil. When was this survey done? What time period? Get a report. It's in the report. It was this summer. Excuse me just one second, Mr. Mayor. Data collection took place between July 30th and August 13th. Between July 30th and August 13th? Yes, sir. And, have the same, uh, have the same questions been asked in any prior surveys or is there any plan to ask these same questions in subsequent surveys? I, I think the long-term plan for the DLC would be to come back after a sufficient amount of time has elapsed to effect some change and do it again to see if change has indeed taken place. Now, anecdotally, we've asked similar questions on previous surveys that we've conducted for other organizations. Um, you, you can't do apples and apples comparisons, but typically, some of the same problems show up in terms of downtown. It's parking, shopping and nightlife. Anything further? Thank you. Very much- Thank you. Appreciate the information. I think that gets us now to the point where we're ready for council reports. Um, and the first one I have on my list is Council Member McCord. Thank you, Mayor. Just a couple of announcements. One, uh, tonight at 6:30 at Southland Christian Church is the Metropolitan Planning Organization's, uh, two county, Fayette and Jessamine County, uh, planning meeting, and it is open to the public. It's for public comment, uh, with regard to the, uh, the transportation plan, uh, for those two counties. Uh, also wanna say thank you to, uh, the police last night and Chief Bastin for a, a great evening at the Police Awards Banquet, and, uh, again, congratulations to all those who were honored last night, uh, both inside and outside the police. Uh, lastly, I wanna just, um, bring to you an announcement about something special that, uh, we've had the opportunity to be working on for the last couple of months, and you're gonna see more of this over the next couple weeks, but an event called Second Sunday. Uh, Second Sunday is the second Sunday of October this year, October 12th. Uh, it is a, uh, an opportunity for Kentucky to separate itself, uh, to make national news by doing something that's never been done before, and that is a coordinated effort, uh, done through the UK College of Ag Extension, uh, to close streets from 2:00 to 6:00 in communities all across Kentucky for people to come out and blade, bike, walk, push a stroller, and exercise. Uh, and what this has done, uh, it's kind of interesting is, is that, uh, it started from a, uh, from Bogota, Colombia. In Bogota, uh, a number of years ago, they started doing this because they didn't have a lot of money for parks and rec, and they just invited folks to come out and, and exercise in what they did have, which was the streets, and they removed the cars, and they would have 400,000 people show up. And, uh, you have to consider what it would cost to build infrastructure to get 400,000 people to exercise and, and what they found was by just getting the cars off the road, they could do this. Uh, back in August, Mayor Bloomberg in New York made national news, uh, by closing, uh, seven miles of, of Park Avenue for three weeks on three Saturdays, uh, and again, he was on all the talk shows and so forth as, as being heralded as this, uh, this is a great idea. Well, what's interesting is, is, uh, we have, have started, I guess, casting that vision across the state since June, and, uh, we are at 60-plus counties. Around 65 counties across the state are participating in this by nothing but word of mouth. Um, truly a David and Goliath type thing, where there's not been a, a title sponsor or anything like that, some very nominal money and some very pioneering spirits, and, um, we will, we will make national news on October 12th. But for the Lexington community, uh, Mayor Newberry and his staff and, and a number of folks inside and outside of government have organized our Second Sunday, which will, uh, be from 2:00 to 6:00, and we will be closing, uh, South Lyme, just from, uh, Avenue of Champions, uh, down to 4th Street. Uh, the Courthouse Square becomes, uh, the, the center of, of activity, but folks can come down and have that timeframe to, to be with their families and to walk and to, uh, to be counted. And, and what, what happens at the end of the day, it's not about, um, just getting out and walking or just another event, although it's funny that we're, we're talking about what brings people downtown, our events. Uh, it, it's not just that. Uh, Second Sunday becomes something that might have a life of its own for Kentucky year after year after year, uh, that we can be known for. Uh, in fact, I, I firmly believe that this is something that a decade from now is a national holiday. I've already had two separate states contact me saying, "When you're ready to come outside of Kentucky, we're ready to, to start looking at this for our state." Um, here's an opportunity for the poorest health state in adult obesity to step up and do something that's never been done before. ... and we have a chance to make, uh, a- a tremendous splash if th- I mean, let's face it, if this was Colorado, nobody'd care 'cause folks are healthy. Um, but because of who we are and where we rank, uh, we have a tremendous opportunity. So I wanna invite everybody in the City of Lexington, inside this government, outside this government, to come down that day because, uh, what is really gonna make the splash, what's really gonna make the news is how many bodies came out, how many live bodies across the state. What's really interesting to me is that UK has the capacity to measure that down to the caloric burn of that day. Uh, and so come and be a part of history. Uh, come and be a part of something very, very special, not just in Lexington, uh, but statewide. And ask yourself, how many times do we do anything that is truly for the commonwealth, uh, for the common good? Um, I can't think of very many things we actually do in Kentucky together. Uh, we do many, many things across our counties and in our cities, uh, and this is a chance for Lexington to put a unique stamp on our own, uh, Second Sunday, but also to, uh, to really lead in something that's tremendous. And I, I want to thank you, Mayor, for, uh, for a year of kinda talking through this and planning and dreaming and scheming for, for Lexington. Uh, but it is a reality and I was thrilled to hear that we are at 60 plus counties by nothing but word of mouth. And what that tells me is there is a pent-up demand across this state, uh, to do something and to, to shake off the apathy that, that we currently have. So Mayor, thank you. You're more than welcome and, um, I would just hasten to add that to the degree we have Lexingtonians who have friends and relatives from other counties or places, they're more than welcome to come and, um, if they're not going to their own hometown to participate, we'll be glad to have our friends and neighbors. Mayor. Council Member Stennet. Mayor. I'm sorry. Council Member James. I just wanted to ask a question of Council Member,, um, McCord. Um, I do, uh, the First District runs from, uh, s- about 2nd Street to 4th and Pleasant Stone to 4th. Businesses along that route that may be affected on that day, should they contact you, um, to find out more information or who do they need to talk to? I, I would, I would, uh, point them to the mayor's office to Shay Rabold, who has been, been taking care of, of that. There you go, Shay. Uh, but, but to that point, one of the interesting things that I, I, I see across the state as I talk to folks, uh, and, and we've been talking with various communities, and people in Lexington need to think about the timeframe of when this is gonna take place. It's 2:00 to, to 6:00 on a Sunday. And what I think is probably the most exciting thing is the amount of, uh, the volume of business that could be brought to that community on a day that they probably don't get a lot of business. And what I have, uh, talked with Renee Jackson about as well is, uh, for those businesses along that corridor to look at what opportunities this provides for them economically. But certainly from a logistics standpoint, uh, if we can coordinate that through her and through my office, um, that would be the best. Thank you very much. Mm-hmm. Council Member Stennet. Thank you, Mayor. Just a couple of announcements. First off, won the Eastland Parkway Neighborhood Association will be meeting tonight at 6:30 at Christ Center Church there off of Eastland Parkway. And then also on Thursday night, as we had a new business item today on, uh, the Hisle property will be once again discussion, which is out on, uh, Briar Hill Road. We'll be having that public meeting this Thursday night, the 25th of September, uh, from 6:00 to 9:30 PM in the auditorium at Bryan-Station High School. Yeah, 6:00 it'll begin, uh, to 9:30. They have the auditorium there at Bryan-Station High School and again, it's the Hisle property and its master plan, which is located off of Briar Hill Road in North Lexington. Uh, a couple other items. One, I had the opportunity to, to visit with our County Attorney Larry Roberts and see his new office and some of the things and visit, uh, about some of the things going on in his office and some of his new initiatives. As we heard earlier today, we have some building inspection items that, uh, he has also taken on to help us including the sign ordinance and things like that, but there's also some other things there that, that could be of, of great value to this council, uh, that we haven't taken advantage of. We give him, you know, several thousand dollars a year for- to run his office. Uh, we increased that this year, um, a little bit. So I think it would be a great opportunity for anybody else who would like to go down there and meet with him and his staff and kind of see their new operation, uh, at their new location because, uh, they did move from the old First National Bank building to, uh, the corner of Vine and, and li- or High Street or Limestone, I believe it is. And, uh, it, it's a great new location, but you really need to see, uh, firsthand what's going on there. They help a lot with their truancy programs. Um, of course, um, the child support operation, it is huge. There are three floors, uh, of employees working on that issue. Um, but he's busy working on our noise ordinance and helping us enforce some of those things, which haven't been previously enforced, uh, through previous administrations. Uh, I know he's also working, as I said, with the signs as well as the barking dog issue. So, uh, we're gonna try to coordinate a, uh, group effort to go down there for those of you that would like to go, uh, on a Wednesday morning around 10:00. Uh, so we'll send something out to everyone, all the council members, if you'd like to go down there and, and pay a visit down there. Again, it's one of our agencies we give a lot of money to, uh, and it just helps to, to spread the knowledge. I know Council Member James had had the opportunity to, uh, previously just spend a half day down there and I know, uh, I think you too had found it of great value and benefit. Do you want to say anything? Eh... I was just amazed at, um, the, the broad, um, variety of things that they deal with on a daily. It was amazing to, I mean, I think they're on five or six floors. I don't know. They, they encompass a lot of floors, a lot of staff, um, and very much in tune with what, um, the others do when, um, I saw their office, if you've seen the, um, um, there's some, um, Buckle Up messages that are coming on commercials that are on TV that came out of his office. Um, one with, um, uh, or I think Ramel Bradley is his name and another as well. Um, they're doing some really good work and, and it definitely was valuable to me to go and visit their office and see, um, what they're able to do, um, for us citizens, um, and also found some ways to connect to where our offices could work together. So it was re- a good visit. Thank you for that input. And a- also to add to the videos, you'll also be seeing some on, uh, running school bus stop signs. It's become a major issue in Fayette County with people disregarding those stop signs on school buses. Uh, you'll be seeing a commercial too on that if you haven't already seen that. So, uh, again they're working on some great videos and things and, and public, uh, getting some public awareness things going, and, uh, I hope everyone will be able to attend when we coordinate that, that meeting. Uh, also, l- last Thursday night, we had a, uh, our second TIFF project walked onto the docket, and I, I guess I got, I got a question maybe for the Mayor or Vice-Mayor. I'm not sure who's chairing the TIFF, uh, delegation task force, however we're calling it today. Uh, but where are we at in that process? Are, are, is one of the outcomes of this TIFF delegation to create a process so that we bring TIFF projects forward and bring them forward in such that we're asking the same questions of each person who would like to do a TIFF with this government? Because I think it's evident at this point that these are being treated very differently, uh, between the two TIFF projects that have currently been presented, and, and yet they're two very different projects, but I think the same questions, the same standards in terms of the process, uh, where are we at in getting there? Th- because the projects are different, the processes that have been employed are different, and Jim Parsons has suggested that going forward, we oughta anticipate that's gonna continue to be the case because the circumstances are, are always different from one proposal to the next. In terms of where we stand, uh, there is a meeting scheduled for tomorrow, uh, excuse me, October 1st, a week from tomorrow. Um, at that time, we will evaluate the, um, uh, proposed financial information and, uh, we'll review a draft of the development plan. That development plan I think is scheduled to be filed within a week or 10 days after that. And then the public hearing is scheduled for the 21st. As best I'm aware, that's the only remaining meeting of the TIFF delegation right now. Well, I guess I was looking at more along the lines of, you know, we're about to have a public meeting and yet there's, there's a lot of public, and I assume you're talking about the Distillery District going forward, because there, there's still a lot of the public that don't know about, that doesn't know all the information about that project, and what I was looking for were more of a, a list of standards such as the developer's background. We need to know what that is. Their financing, whether it be private, public, we just need to know that going into these public hearings. Again, getting the most information out to the people so when they come to the hearings, they know what they're talking about, they know what to comment on. Again, the differences in the two TIFF, because one's a signature TIFF project, one's not. One's gonna require public money to actually get it done, the other one not. So, again, some way to be able to point these differences out and be able just to, to outline 'em to the general public. The development plans for both projects will have to be filed a week prior to their respective hearing dates, and the hearing is actually on the development plan document itself. Um, so the CenterPoint Development Plan will be filed on or before the 7th. The Distillery District development plan will be filed on or before the 14th. And then the hearings will be for the CenterPoint on the 14th at 6:00, and for the Distillery District, um, on the 21st. And I know the, the, our local media, print media will be able to cover some of this, but will you be putting this on GTV3 too so people know when the hearings are? Is that something we can also do, Mayor? I'm, I'm sure we can, um, Mr. Kelley, if you would, uh, communicate with, with folks there, I'd appreciate it. Again, some of those standards I'd like to see created. You know, we all go back to the Shoreborn Plaza, um, that we were all presented, we all voted in favor of doing, and yet that developer didn't have his finance and it fell through. You know, again, having as much information on the front end about who we're dealing with, where they're getting their financing, wh- what's, what, what their method of getting the project underway and their timeframe is very helpful. And again, treating all TIFF projects the same, not necessarily in terms of the type of TIFF and how we proceed with it, but a, the standards in terms of information, Mayor, would be very helpful, so I don't know if we could put it into maybe a council committee if the task force does not gonna take that up, but it does feel like after walking something on last Thursday night, these are being treated very differently by th- by this body, and we really need to hammer that process down so we all have the same information going forward. Thank you, Mayor. Council Member Lane. Uh, thank you, Mayor. The Horse Park is located in my district, and as the Council member out there, one of the questions I get the most is about the World Equestrian Games. The specific question I hear most often is about traffic congestion and parking for the World Games. So I, uh, was over at the Ryder Cup, uh, over the weekend, and they had between 40 and 50,000 people per day coming to the Ryder Cup out of Valhalla, which is approximately the number of people on a daily basis that would be visiting the Horse Park, and I, I just wanted to report to the community that the event was well ran and it was almost flawless. They, there were a number of remote parking lots throughout the Louisville area and there were frequent shuttle buses from those parking lots to the event, so getting in and getting out, there was almost no traffic and no delay. And I, it sorta made me feel good because, uh, the, the state is of course involved, uh, with our city here and the World Games Foundation, and they were involved in the operations over in, with the City of Louisville and the PGA. Anyway, I feel, uh, very optimistic that we will have the same smooth operating event when the World Games comes here. So I just wanted to share that with everybody 'cause it, it really encouraged me and it's a question I get asked all the time. Thank you. Council Member Blues. Thank you, Mayor. Uh, I'd just like to underscore Council Member Stennet's, uh, announcement of the, of the Hisle, Hisle Park Master Plan public meeting. ... at Bryan Station High on Thursday night, six o'clock. This is a very important m- meeting for the public, especially those who have a real interest in Masterson Station Park for one, and other of our regional parks, because what happens at, at Hisle will have impact in, uh, in some of our other parks. So I encourage, um, I, I encourage everybody to come out to that, to that meeting, hear what the, uh, consultants have to say, and, and, and make, uh, make their comments. We have some neighborhood meetings coming up. The first one, uh, on my list is tonight, the Spicewood Homeowners Association Neighborhood Watch Meeting, uh, is at 7:00 PM, Masterson Clubhouse. There have been some vandalism issues in, in the neighborhood. The neighborhood's working to get, uh, extra, uh, police patrols and observation. The neighborhood watch is, is, is in progress of being created. Neighbors have to, have to be out there, uh, be informed, work together, and, uh, and, and get this thing going, address this, uh, this problem. Then, tomorrow night, Wednesday, September 24th, St. Martin Village Neighborhood Association meets at 6:00 PM. That's at the community center in Whitney Young Park. On Monday, September 29th, the Belmont Farm Homeowners Association will meet. That's at 6:00 PM, and it's in the Coldstream Campus Facilities meeting room. For directions to that facility, call Homeowners Association President Andrew Smith at 583-4142. That's Andrew Smith, 583-4142. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you. Council Member Meyers. Thank you, Mayor. First thing I wanna do is move approval of the NDF for September 23rd. Second. We have a motion by Council Member Meyers and a second by Council Member Blevins to approve the NDF. Any discussion? All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed, no. Motion carries. Thank you, Mayor. Secondly, um, my office met with, uh, Larry O- Larry Roberts a couple of weeks ago, and some other folks in the law department, um, with respect to the sign ordinance. We were looking at right of way signs and wanting to move forward on some things with that, but I would like to move that we place the entire sign ordinance into Services Committee. Second. I think that's already been done. It's already been done? It wa- I, I put it in last meeting. Last meeting? Yeah. Okay. Then I guess I would ask the chair if we could move that to the agenda for the next meeting if it's not? . Smoking it... Okay. Council Member Camp, di- when you put the ordinance in, did you just put the whole ordinance in, or did you, b- were you specific as to certain- Put the whole ordinance in. Okay. Thank you. That concludes my report. Thank you very much. And Council Member McCord? Th- Thank you, Mayor. Just real quickly, uh, to Council Member Stennit's, uh, point about TIFFs and one of the things being in the, uh, part of the delegation that I've learned, uh, Jim Parsons has said over and over and over, and I think this body and this community needs to understand is, every project is different, and every TIFF is dis- i- is different. And one of the pieces of advice that he had given from the outset was, y- whatever process you develop needs to be very, very flexible, because they come in in a lot of different forms and fashions, and, and each one is very unique, uh, and, uh, to have a very rigid, rigid standard, um, doesn't necessarily do you as much good as having, uh, some standards with some flexibility. So, what I'd like to do, i- I wanna make a motion, and, and I, I can make this in a couple ways, but I think what I'd like to do is point this to the TIFF delegation, uh, for, for our next meeting. Um, but what I'd like to do is for the TIFF delegation, at our next meeting, to, uh, create a project summary, uh, which is basically a list of standards, uh, that would be presented prior to, uh, any public hearing. And what I believe those standards, loose standards are, are really, they boil down to four things. One is a timeframe and a total cost of the project, um, a general statement of financing, hey, th- do you see this as public-private, a split? Um, if, in the case of Center Point where there's a letter of confidentiality, uh, you know that upfront that, that that is a, a ci- circumstance of that particular si- situation. Um, number three would be how much, uh, public money is needed upfront to make the project go, uh, and is there any public money needed upfront? And then number four is the track record of the developer. What have you done in the past? What's your l- level of success? But I, I believe, Mayor, if, what I'll do is just make a motion that, for the TIFF delegation, uh, to create a, uh, a project summary, a list of standards that would be presented prior to any public hearing, uh, and for us to discuss that matter as an agenda item, uh, and come outta there with that, with th- those four suggestions. I have a motion by Council Member McCord and a second by Council Member Lane. Any discussion? Those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed... Uh, uh, but- Mm-hmm. ... is that for, is this for the motion, or just for the discussion? 'Cause I'd, I'd like to discuss the, the motion. N- now that would be an order. Okay. I think w- w- we got, several weeks ago when Laura Daugherty spoke before the council, she presented at least one, I think two cities. One of 'em was City of Madison. And I had a chance to take a look at it between the time that she was here and today, and it, these guy- they worked on theirs between November of 2004 and April of 2005. And if you look at it pretty closely, it's pretty comprehensive and it does have the process illustrated. And perhaps it would be better for the TIFF delegation to really carefully evaluate this, and then determine what the attributes, or what we should examine would be. I think that'd be great. And like I say, the, uh, at the end of the day, uh, the motion is, is for the TIF delegation to make this an agenda item to decide what, what that project summary or that process really is, recognizing, uh, that, uh, the advice of our council has been that we need to make sure that we build in some sort of flexibility, uh, to that process. But anything is, is, uh, is valuable input, so I would agree with you 100%. All right, Council Member Blevins. I just wanna tag onto this. I agree that we need to be flexible. There's no question that each project's unique. But right now, we have no process. So I think somewhere between zero and flexible is where we need to end up. Uh, zero meaning... In fact, I wanna make this point as well. When we created the TIF delegation some months ago, it was my understanding it was for the one project and one project alone. Now, perhaps I misunderstood that night, but I'm, I'm getting more and more uncomfortable that a delegation that we appointed what, what, for what I thought was one thing is becoming a, a very broad-based group. I'm glad to let that continue for the, the two projects because I don't wanna do damage to the two TIF applications we do have, but beyond those two, I think we need to have a more formal process and this would be a great way to take a step in that direction. So I'm in agreement with Council Member Stennet. We need a basic list of things we oughta get. It oughta be flexible and I guess I'm content to let this TEF, TIF delegation, since they're already sitting and, and ready to go, to take this matter up and I'll, I'll be in support of your motion. Any further discussion? Council Member James. Um, Mayor, I'd actually, um, I agree somewhat with Council Member Blevins. However, I think this is, um, not just a decision, and the summary or whatever you wanna call it, um, should just come from the TIF delegation because I had the same impression that this was a one-timer, um, deal for the one particular project that was submitted initially. Um, I actually think that a council committee, um, would be best to deal with the issue of, um, the, what needs to come forward as far as what the TIF delegation needs to, um, be expecting, and if this summary of the project or whatever needs to be presented, I think it should come from council committee and not a delegation. And I would suggest that, um, I would suggest that, um, Council Member McCord suggests an amendment to that saying that a committee should take care of that. Council Member McCord. I guess, I guess my question is, it, it was my recollection that when the delegation was formed, uh, there was some language in there that it was formed to meet with, uh, the developers of the Center Point proj, project and to, uh, to look at and, and formulate a process. And I may be completely off-base, uh, from that recollection, but at the end of the day, um, what we have are, are two very different projects and they're, they're handled, they're being handled very differently. The interesting thing, to Council Member Blevin's point is we don't have a process, and what I find interesting is, is, uh, in the, in the case of the first situation, um, how we have screamed, "Process, process, process," um, in, in that situation, and yet, uh, we, we don't have any, seemingly any problem with, uh, that same process not being followed or not really having one for the second. And so again, I, I think that, um, taking this up in the TIF delegation, bringing forward a recommendation to the full council, uh, is, is what I would recommend by my motion, or the intent of my motion. Council Member Blues and Council Member Stevens. Thank you, Mayor. Um, I think there were probably more similarities between the two processes within the, uh, within the delegation than, um, it might seem a-, seem apparent. Um, in both cases, the, the, the, the TIF proposals were taken up. A, uh, TIF boundaries were created with projects within them, and in both cases, the delegations voted to send the, uh, to send those, those, those, uh, those proposals forward in, in the, in the form of, uh, of resolutions for the entire council to, uh, you know, to, to address. S-, uh, I would say, as, as well, that one difference was that the, uh, the second TIF, uh, proposal drew some, some hard, aggressive questioning and some, some, some serious extended dialogue between members of the, uh, of the delegation and the, uh, uh, and the developer of the, of the project. So I don't think that we're, we're at opposite ends of some kind of, of spectrum here. I do certainly agree that we do, do need a process that, that we can, we can, uh, uh, establish and, and refine and, and, and follow, assuming that there will be other, uh, TIF proposals, uh, coming our way. And, and we have sought for advice from, m- m- m-, you know, from various, various sources on that. Uh, Vice Mayor mentioned, uh, uh, mentioned one. Uh, I forget who asked Mr. Ferris, uh, the TIF consultant who's been present in the delegation meetings, uh, if he could provide us with a, uh, with a kind of template. And he, and as I recall, he said that he, he, he would do that. So I would, I would hope with, that we would take this information and, and, and indeed try to work out a, a process for, for the TIF delegation. ... uh, try to work out a process. I'm, I'm hoping that we don't have to do this in, you know, a week, two weeks. Y- you're not setting a, a, a deadline on this? No, I just thought that the, the TIF delegation meets next week or whenever their next meeting is, that'd be the best time to go ahead and take that up. I, I think we can take it up and, and I'll support the motion, just so long as we don't have to take it up, get it done, and, and bring it to the council right away. Thank you. Council Member Stevens and Council Member Beard. Uh, thank you. Uh, when I made the motion to, to create this, uh, task force or whatever you wanna call it, to go meet with the developers about the first TIF, it was my intention that it would be for that one project. But it was amended during the, that meeting to include future projects so that this, uh, delegation does have that responsibility. But I agree with, uh, the motion that's made and I also agree with the, Dr. Blue's comments that maybe at this time, we can stand back and take a look at it and, and come up with a more, uh, effective way to meet with the developers. One of the things I thought was important in the first, um, uh, motion was that it include the mayor as well as members of the council, so it would be representing the whole government, not just the council as we work through this. And that's the way it's worked and I think it has been effective, though I'm not sure the membership would apply to all future TIFs as, as it might exclude the district council person who happens to have it in his or her district. So I think there's some things that can be done and I look, I think that's, we'll have a chance because I don't see any other TIF on the horizon right, right now. Council Member Beard. Thank you, Mayor. I just wanted to, um, remind everybody of the timelines we were on. We had our first TIF taskforce meeting on, uh, Thursday the 17th of July. And of course, at that point, the only thing we were considering was the Center Point project and the TIF that surrounded that. We didn't have our first Distillery District, uh, meeting until the 27th of August. The pressures on the Distillery project to play catch-up and get things done in Frankfurt in a timely manner before, um, the, the legislature gets into action and maybe cuts the legs out from under TIF, uh, is why there was a walk on. It was our, uh, uh, desire to expedite so that they could get on c- closer to a, a, a even footing with Ce- Center Point as far as the timeline's concerned and we were able to pull it up to within seven days, I believe. Is that cor- cor- correct, Mayor? So, I mean, that was the reason. Um, as far as the process is concerned, about 80% of the process is, um, dictated by Frankfurt. It isn't dictated by us in the, in the, in the rules. Uh, how we ha- handle the other 20%, of course, is our business and some of the ideas are, are valid and doesn't matter, I have no problem with them. But, uh, uh, really the, um, uh, the, the folks in Frankfurt are the ones that, uh, are s- setting all the other timelines and requirements and, um, uh, as, as we will find out as we get further into this. So, uh, I just wanted to make everybody aware so that everybody's on the same page as to, uh, as to what the history is of all this. Thank you. Any further discussion? I think the question on the table then is Council Member McCord's motion to add the, um, TIF process to the agenda for the next TIF delegation meeting on October 1st. Any discussion further? All right, those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Those opposed, no. And Ms. Langston, if you would follow up with Mr. Schoeninger and add that to our agenda, I would appreciate it very much. Um, anything further in council reports? All right. Is this... I, I thought this list was stale but, uh, Council Member Gordon. So sorry. Uh, thank you, Mayor. I just had one item, um, to let the public know that the parks, uh, Division of Parks is soliciting public comment and ideas about, um, future and current programs and events within our parks system. And so there's an online survey ongoing right now. It will be, um, ending September 30th and so if you want to give input to the Division of Parks about our programs and activities and services, I would encourage you to go to www.lfucg.com/parks and fill out the survey. Thank you. Any other council member wish to report? All right. I don't have a, uh, formal mayor's report, but I've got just two or three things, uh, uh, real quickly. First of all, on Thursday, we will mark the, uh, two-year, um, date, advance date for the World Equestrian Games. And, um, I call that to your attention primarily because I know it has been the te- object of a lot of discussion in the community. There will be an event at the Horse Park, um, which they are calling Halfway There, halfway between Okan and, and the events at the Horse Park. So, um, if you care to join us at the Horse Park Thursday afternoon at 1:30, I'm sure everybody would be glad to have you attend. Uh, second, I think Council Member James and Council Member Blues are having a get-together with some of their neighborhood association leadership on Saturday morning and I am, uh, planning on joining them for a part of that meeting. And, um, so- We hope to replicate that by scheduling some, um, opportunities for me to sit down with neighborhood association presidents over the course of the next month or so, and, um, in about a half dozen or so meetings in anticipation of the neighborhood assu- Neighborhood Summit that's coming up on October 25th. So, I'll, um, be in touch with you as we -- as we schedule meetings in your area. But, uh, please encourage your neighborhood associations to mark their calendars for October 25th. We'll be doing second annual Neighborhood Summit here in the government center. That's all I've got. Uh, does anyone wish to address the council? Mr. Cobb, if you'll step to the podium, give us your full name and address. You'll have three minutes. Louis A. Gil Cobb. My address is 413 Scottsdale Circle, Obama. Peace and love to the council. Uh, we as citizens of Lexington, we gotta decide whether we gonna continue to live under the direction of millionaires who have millions of dollars in accounts, but are spiritually and morally bankrupt. No lie can live forever. I'm asking everybody again to take a second to look at what's happening. Look what's happening around us. People are breaking in people's houses. We got home invasions, we got drugs, we got a climate that's changing. And no matter whether we build a building or not, we ain't addressing the real issue. The real issue is racism, tokenism. We've been living a lie in Lexington thinking that we can forget about certain people and put per- certain people in leadership roles and that's gonna fix the problem. The problem is the underlying misunderstanding of the different and the differences that we have created. We supposed to be different. One of the things that I like to do is to be a difference. I'm gonna let my light shine before men, that they gonna see my good works, that my father in heaven will be glorified. I'm being harassed by the police. I'm being locked up for no reason, but it still don't matter. I'm still gonna come out shining. We gotta address the real issue in Lexington. You never have really sat down and said, "Once we got rid of micro city government, what can we put in replace of that? Once we knock down all of that, what can we put in, in replace of that?" It's not no black-white issue. It's a moral issue. Do we got the guts to look inside of ourself and see how ugly we really are? One of the things that Solomon and Gomorrah was destroyed about, they had the audacity to think that they could continue to live immorally. It got so bad that it stunk up to heaven. Racism stinks. Hatred stinks. And if you think God can't smell it, ask them people down in the Gulf region. Them winds is representatives of his anger. We got to find a way to work together. We can't just keep locking people up. The police force is like a pack of pit bulls, all over the city they trying to get everybody. It's cool if the people are, are, are illegally, doing something wrong, but you don't just profile the people. I'm asking God to ask me to change me, 'cause it's gonna take a more stronger determination on my part to love Lexington when Lexington has an opportunity to show me that it loves me. We got a great opportunity in Lexington, but it can't go as it is. No lie can live forever. And if you believe that white supremacy is gonna stand, it's a lie. God's going to destroy it. Thank you, Mr. Cobb. Does anyone else wish to address the council? If not, a motion to adjourn would be in order. So moved. Second. I have a motion by Council Member Meyers and second by Council Member Gordon. All in favor of adjourning, please say aye. Aye. Opposed, no. Motion carries. Thanks.