Music Thank you. Thank you. The Thank you. Thank you. Everybody. Welcome. Thank you for joining us today. I will now call to order the April 9th, 2024 meeting of the Social Services and Public Safety Committee. I want to thank everyone who's joining us for various reasons today. The first thing on our agenda is the approval of the March 5th, 2024 committee summary. You all are fast. Thank you. All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? And that motion passes. The next thing that we're going to discuss is the Lexington Humane Pet Sales Ordinance. And we have kind of a unique agenda today. So I came up with a hashtag. And it says, put down the guns and pick up the puppies. So if you remember anything from today, just remember that. All right. So the first presentation we have is the Lexington Humane Pet Sales Ordinance, like I just mentioned. And we have Todd Blevins with us, who is the Kentucky State Director of the Humane Society of the United States. And he's going to present today's presentation. Thank you, thank you Chairwoman. Can you all hear me okay? All right, as Chairwoman Reynolds said, my name is Todd Blevins. I'm the Kentucky State Director for the Humane Society of the United States. I live in Richmond myself, but am no stranger to Lexington. I've spent a lot of time in Lexington all my life and have a lot of friends and family that still live here. So it's both a personal and professional honor to be before you today to talk about the Humane Pet Sales Ordinance. I am certainly not alone in speaking on behalf of this ordinance. You will hear from someone who has even more direct experience than I do once I am finished and we have some members in support from the rescue community and shelter community today. So without further ado, I will go ahead and get underway. So let's talk about the issue, I guess, before we talk about the ordinance. So in Lexington, you all have 15 pet shops. Of those 15 pet shops, two of them engage in the retail sale of dogs and cats. The other 13 engage in one of, or multiple of the following. They either partner with a local shelter or rescue to promote adoptable animals. And so for instance, the PetSmart in Hamburg has an entire wing dedicated to the Lexington Humane Society Adoption Center. And so a lot of stores will do that sort of partnership. They will either sell small mammals, birds, fish, things of that nature, or they will just directly deal with supplies. So again, only two shops are doing the direct selling of dogs and cats. So then the question is, that's the landscape, so why is this ordinance coming before you and why is this an important ordinance to come before you? So you'll hear me talk about some of the myriad problems with the puppy mill pet store trade, but the first one I want to talk about is the connection between puppy and kitten mills and pet shops. So public records, inspection reports from the USDA, other documents show us clearly that pet shops that participate in the retail sale of dogs and cats in pet shops are by and large sourcing them from puppy and kitten mills. Which I think most of you probably know what I mean when I use that term, but it's a general term for an entity that prioritizes profit and maximum production of animals over their own well-being. So that's what I mean by puppy or kitten mill. And then as it stands, there is very little industry oversight of how this trade operates. So the USDA inspects and licenses breeders that sell through pet shops, which may sound nice on paper and may sound nice on its own, but the problem comes with enforcement. So USDA does not have, never has really had a proper enforcement mechanism, has never had the proper manpower, funding, et cetera. So you may have an inspector go to one of these large scale breeders once a year. When that is just a snapshot in time, right? When you want to try to prioritize the well being of the animals all year long. At the state level we have nothing. No real sort of regulations on this industry. So then the question becomes locally and that is what brings me before you today. So moving on to the next slide, let's talk about the problem and the ordinance in Lexington and what this would do for Lexington. So we've got it divided up into four benefits here. So one, you protect puppies and kittens, we should have added, from this pipeline of puppy and kitten mills to the pet shops. And I think this is arguably even more important because this has a direct effect on Lexingtonians themselves. you're protecting them from a wide range of problems that are associated with this industry, including some of the predatory financing schemes that I'm happy to talk about in more detail. Or, which this happens quite regularly, consumers will go home with an animal that they've just purchased from one of these pet shops. And unfortunately, within a matter of days, it is chronically ill. And so in addition to the thousands of dollars that the consumer has spent on the pet, they are left holding the bag on the thousands of dollars that vet bills that often follow. So I know that a couple of local families have spoken out about this and their experience themselves. They purchased from one of the two pet shops that do engage in this practice. One purchased a kitten, one purchased a puppy. And unfortunately, within days, each of those animals died. And so what could be worse than bringing a new family pet home and it dies within days after purchase? Moreover, my understanding is that each of those families has reached out to the store for some sort of recourse and none has been forthcoming. So as I said, they're left holding the bag. But then moving on past consumer protections, as I said, we have some members of the rescue community here. And you'll hear me talk a little bit more about the Lexington Humane Society, but this ordinance is designed to help alleviate their burden of overcrowding. So you may know that a lot of shelters and rescues, both in Lexington and nationwide, are at what we call code red, which is maximum capacity, struggling to find space for dogs, having more dogs taken in than they were able to get out. And so this ordinance is designed in part to help with that, to help alleviate that burden, too. And then finally, just the simple message to puppy and kitten millers out there that Lexington is not going to be a hospitable place for them to peddle in the practice. So I think it's equally important to talk about what this ordinance would not do. It would not prohibit the acquisition of dogs from shelters and rescues. In fact, that's what we're trying to encourage. But then moreover, it would not prohibit the acquisition of dogs from what I'll call responsible breeders. That is breeders that sell directly to the public. So most good breeders out there are going to have a vested interest in having a consumer come visit their facility, whether it's their home or something else, because they have as much interest in ensuring that the dog goes to a good home as the consumer has and ensuring that they're getting a good family pet that's not sick. And if they're interested in genetics, ensuring that the genetic line is maintained and things of that nature. So the final bullet point on here is that Lexington is far from the only community that has considered this or is considering this. We have on here 488 communities nationwide have done this. It's actually a little bit old since we uploaded this deck into your packet. That number is now 492. So four more ordinances have passed in recent days, which I think is a testament to this growing movement. But then more importantly, here in Kentucky, it's a growing movement. So E-Town passed such an ordinance a couple years ago, Radcliffe followed suit, and then in last fall, Louisville passed one of these ordinances themselves. So I think this is one of the most important slides I've got in the deck. And it's the question of, well, how do we know this works? How do we know that this ordinance does crack down on puppy and kitten males? So if you look at the graph on your right, you will see that in 2012, the average number of dogs at a USDA licensed puppy mill was 87. I know that's a lot of dogs, but if you look at 2022, that number had dropped to 57. Again, this is all based on USDA data. And so that's 30 fewer dogs per facility and 32,000 fewer dogs that are caged in puppy mills. And so you might ask, well, what led to that? What is attributable to the 32,000 fewer dogs? And so the data suggests that it's these kinds of ordinances. So in 2012, as you see on the slide, only 27 of these kinds of ordinances were on the books nationwide. And by the end of last year, that number was 487. And now, as I said, it's 492. And seven states have enacted such a law statewide to try to crack down on this practice across the state. So, a couple of questions you may have burning in your head, and I'll be happy to answer more questions when I'm finished. But, top of mind, does this mean the stores would have to close? No. This does not force any store to close. Stores would still be able to sell products, services, other animals, as I mentioned, and continuing if they choose to partner with shelters and rescues to promote their adoptable animals. I will say that there is no financial gain for a store to do that. It is a true community partnership for a store to partner with a shelter or rescue to do that, in case you had that question in your mind. Question number two there is, well, how long would they have to come into compliance with this ordinance? They would have a month to finish selling their stock, if you will, the remaining dogs and cats that they have on hand. And then what happens if they violate it, it's a $500 fine for every offense. And then maybe the most important question on the slide, can a Lexingtonian still get a purebred dog? This question comes up all the time, any time that an ordinance like this comes up, and the answer is yes. Shelters and rescues, oftentimes will have plenty of purebred dogs themselves. But if you're looking for a purebred dog that is not at a shelter or rescue, you would still have that option here in Lexington. So, for instance, if you go to the AKC marketplace, you'll find that there are tons of local breeders that are willing to sell directly to the public, as I mentioned earlier, that are going to have the purebred dog that you may be interested in. So, another one of the most important slides I think we've got in the deck here. As I said, I live in Richmond, and I like to consider myself a local guy, but I do not live in Lexington. And so I think it's most important to hear what do Lexingtonians and Lexington groups that serve animals think about this. So first I'll quote LHS because they are the municipal shelter here in Lexington. And so I'll quote what they had said in a December Herald-Leader article about the ordinance. It says, quote, So the best humane society is a humane community, a community that values and respects animals, prioritizes the care and treatment of animals, and refuses to support the puppies for profit trade, which inhumanely exploits dogs and cats. This ordinance is a step in the right direction. And moreover, we promote adoption as the best option when selecting a pet. This means selecting a pet from a 501c3 animal welfare organization, not a commercial breeder, backyard breeder, online broker, auction, pet store, or flea market. Where there is demand for specific dog and cat breeds, only responsible breeders should be considered. That is breeders who adhere to careful purposeful breeding and placement practices. Again, that's directly from LHS. I should have mentioned at the top that the quote reminds me that this ordinance also addresses the sale of dogs and cats in places like flea markets and parking lots, which have almost no oversight. There is no USDA licensure or anything like that. But they are also a part of the overpopulation problem, also a part of consumers winding up with sick dogs and cats. And so Chairwoman Reynolds, as we have crafted this ordinance, felt that that was an important piece to include. So I mentioned LHS. We have our local rescue community here in support, including a member from Saved by Fate, who has partnered with Civic Lex on some civic engagement projects. Local animal advocates, we have representation from them today too. Local vets, other pet stores actually have testified in support of this kind of ordinance in Kentucky. So I have Pet Supplies Plus on the slide, who testified in support of the E-Town ordinance, and has two locations in Lexington. I think the next bullet point is, again, one of the most important constituent groups here. That is those who have been directly impacted by this. I'm guessing you all may have heard from some of these folks who have purchased a sick animal themselves and again have been left holding the bag. They have the most direct stake in all of this because they are the ones who have had to take home the animal and are left with the vet bills and so on. And then finally, groups like mine, as represented by the letter of support that you all received in your packets. That has my group, other state groups, but then most importantly, a lot of Lexington groups, a lot of Lexington Shelters and Rescues and Advocates. So then finally, why now? Why are we bringing this to you now? One is it's clear that it's a live problem in Lexington. I mentioned the families that have purchased sick animals that have either been deceased or remain sick and they've had to pay the veterinary expenses. But I think this slide and particularly this map is pretty illustrative. So if you look at the map, the states in blue are what we refer to as major puppy mill states. That is according to USDA records again, those that have the highest number of puppy and kitten mills. Missouri, Iowa, Indiana, Ohio. And then if you look at the slide, it's a little hard to see, but you can see some of the localities with the do not sign next to them that have passed a similar ordinance in their community. So there are the larger cities like Nashville and Indianapolis and Pittsburgh and so on, but there are some also peer cities for Lexington. So Bloomington, for instance. Bloomington, Indiana has passed one of these ordinances. Columbus, Indiana, Franklin, Tennessee, and so on. So as I said, this is, Lexington is certainly not on an island here, and that is why we wanted to come before you to talk about this issue today. And we hope that the committee will consider moving it out beginning today. So I see my time is running short here, so I would next like to introduce someone who has had some direct experience with this. danny helsdotter health daughter so i will turn it over to danny hey good afternoon everyone can you guys hear me okay okay can you hear me now cool all right well my name is danielle house daughter as todd introduced me and i've been a lexingtonian for about five years now and I'm a former employee of Petland. I'm gonna I'm gonna give you three more minutes. Okay. Because the time is up. Thank you. Okay yeah no you're fine sorry. When you look at a pet store and the cute puppies that they sell you think all is good and well. The puppies are happy and seemingly healthy and the stores are just impeccably clean. As someone who worked inside one of those types of stores, I can attest that looks are incredibly deceiving. The reality is most of the puppies on display come from a puppy mill, one of the most depressing and disgusting places on earth. While they may appear healthy, many times these puppies will have diseases such as Giardia, upper respiratory infections, and in severe cases parvovirus, a highly infectious disease that can kill within days if left untreated. They are often underweight and underage, and sometimes can develop neurological scars that come from being separated too soon from their mothers and littermates. What's more is these innocent creatures will come into the store and be subjected to a vet exam that lasts all of 30 seconds, not near enough time to properly notice if something is wrong. They then go into display cages, sick and clearly suffering, where they are sold to unsuspecting customers. The sad truth about these puppies going to their new homes is that most are purchased on impulse, In central Kentucky alone, Lexington Humane Society paused for a cause and many others are either full or dangerously close to being full. And when the appeal of a new puppy wears off, they likely end up in one of these overcrowded shelters. Or in extreme cases, they become sick and leave their owners strapped with thousands of dollars in vet bills alone, especially if the pet store in question does not act on any policies that say they should cover the bills as they knowingly sold a sick animal. I would like to leave you all with one simple question. In a city that prides itself on our diversity and our compassion for all, it's allowing pet stores to sell puppy mill puppies worth compromising the values that Lexington was built upon. We have no way of knowing how many dogs and cats have lost their lives in pet stores. But the numbers don't matter. What matters is this, not one more. Dogs and cats bring unconditional love and joy into our lives and depend on us to protect them. On behalf of the animals that cannot speak for themselves, I urge you to ban the sale of puppies and pet stores so no more suffer needlessly. Thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah. So I think with that, I am happy to answer any questions. I suspect Danny would be happy to answer any questions as well. I did just want to say briefly, I know that I and my colleague, Lena Muldoon, have had a chance to talk with many of you individually about this. I wanted to thank you all for your time for that in advance. We wanted to make sure that you had plenty of opportunity to have your concerns or your thoughts heard before we came formally today. So with that, I will allow some questions, I guess. Thank you. I'll open it to my colleagues for questions. Council Member Gray. Thank you, Chair, and thank you for your time. It was a pleasure to meet with you, and I think there was someone else. Yeah, Lena, my associate. Yeah, in our meeting. I just need some clarification. So there's only two pet stores in Lexington? Two that engage in selling dogs and cats, 15 total. Okay, 15 total in Lexington? And it's documented? Yes, ma'am. Okay. So I know that, or I was just made aware that we know that the state government has a bill. What's the process? Do you know what the status of that bill is? Yes, ma'am. So there were two separate bills filed on this issue in Frankfort. One, it was an attempt to pass a statewide law like we're considering today. But then the other is the direct opposite of that. It is a preemptive bill that would prevent Lexington from being able to do this and other localities in addition to erasing the three ordinances that I mentioned in Kentucky, Radcliffe, E-Town, and Louisville. The status of those both appear to have stalled this session. So that's the lay of the land in Frankfort. They have two more days to consider it, but at this moment in time, we feel that both have stalled out this session. Okay, thank you. Sure. Thank you, Councilmember Fogel. Thank you, Chair, and thank you for your presentation. Just a couple of questions. Who decides what a reasonable breeder? Who decides that? How do you get, is there a card that you carry saying I'm a reasonable breeder? No, it's a good question. Who decides that? It's a good question, Councilwoman. So the term responsible breeder is not a industry term or anything like that. It's just a general term to refer to somebody who allows an individual who is interested in buying the dog to see where that dog was raised. And not only that, but where the parents were raised as well. One of the things about this practice, and this goes for both the pet shops and flea markets and so on, is that a customer never has a chance to see where the puppy came from. So it's a sort of middle man in between. And so that's where a lot of these problems come from, right? is I think if an individual was able to see where the mother dog, for instance, came from, and in a lot of cases this is going to be in a large-scale puppy mill in Missouri or Indiana or wherever, I think the customer would take a second thought before deciding, well, this is the puppy that I want. So that's kind of, responsible breeder is a more general term rather than a defined industry term. Okay, and thank you for that answer. Sure. The next question that I have is, how many occurrences would these puppy mills get? I see there's a $500 fine. Can they continue to get $500 fines? And how many can they get before we say, it's over? Well, I think as written, Councilwoman, it is indefinite, if you will. I would like to think that a business, I mean, a lot of these businesses will go through multiple puppies a day. So it just doesn't seem to make good business sense to rack up multiple thousand dollars of fines in a day or a week. I suppose that a business could take that chance and just say that it's the cost of doing business. But we have found that in other localities where this has been adopted, that is very rare. It's very rare that a business is like, I'm going to fly in the face of the law. Most of this is based on if they get caught. Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. So Lexington Fayette Animal Care and Control would be the ones to enforce this ordinance. And we've talked to them about the enforcement, how much of an enforcement burden this would be. They are already obligated to do an inspection of a pet shop if they receive a complaint. That's under current code. So this would not be much of an added burden for them. Okay, thank you so much for your answers. Thank you, Vice Chair Elliott Baxter. chair thank you for the presentation um i'm going to kind of build on council member fogel's questions about enforcement um i i can understand that the pet stores would be complaint driven for the most part i suppose my concern is the sale in public places so you know i can foresee someone calls says hey somebody's selling puppies in a parking lot and by the time law enforcement gets there they're gone so have other communities put any other like restrictions or guidelines in place on how to enforce that side of things yeah it's a good question councilwoman so as i mentioned during the presentation that is the lesser of the two practices that goes on the flea markets aren't an every weekend kind of thing but again lfacc has said that they go on you know occasionally so I take your question in stride that what if you show up and they've already packed up and left but I think that the volume from those kinds of outfits from my understanding is not nearly comparable to what's going on in the in the stores that's not to say that it's a you know total dismissal but I know that that Lexington Fayette Animal Care Control has officers on dispatch full time so I would think that whether it goes on a Saturday morning or Sunday evening or a tuesday they would have someone available to go out there in a reasonable time more often as in they would catch them more often than not so um let's just say i go into a pet store and i see puppies being sold and i call animal control and report it and they come out they issue the citation is there any um is there any amount of shutdown that then occurs or it's just simply they get a citation for the $500 but they can still continue to sell the puppies that are in the store. Yeah so as written it is as as uh Constable and Vogel had asked it it's just $500 per animal that is sold per dog or cat that is sold. So if a business sells six puppies on a given day you're looking at $3,000 in fines. Okay so it's not per occurrence it's per animal that's correct. Yes ma'am. Okay. Yeah it's not per time that somebody is called out it's per animal sold. Okay, that's helpful, thank you. Thank you, Councilmember Lynch. Thank you, Chair, for recognition since I do not serve on this committee. Thank you for your presentation, I just have a few questions. Tell me about the predatory financing that you said happens to consumers frequently or during this process. Yeah, sure thing. So there's a case study that I think is particularly helpful. So one of the two pet store chains in question here is a national chain. And at another of their locations, this was in Iowa City, the Iowa Attorney General actually cracked down on them because they were in violation of the state consumer protection interest caps, like loan interest caps. And specifically, they were selling dogs under a financing scheme with 189% interest rate. Wow. So these are not small numbers. And we know that that goes on with a lot of regularity because if you walk into one of these stores, you'll see dogs for sale for as high as $9,000. And so not many folks have $9,000 cash on hand, so most of the time you're going to finance. And the question is, how much of an interest rate are you taking on? And more often than not, it's at least double digits, in many cases significantly more. Thank you, I didn't know that, I wasn't aware of that. My next question is in regards to the fines. And so based on what you said to Council Member Fogle, $500, you feel like is a high enough deterrent for violators of this potential ordinance? I think that's for council's discretion. But that is the general, that is what has been adopted elsewhere. And I think it has played out with success, as in the business has not, as I said to Councilmember Fogel, has not just run afoul of the law and said we're going to continue selling. So that's how that number was arrived at. It's significant enough that we feel it's a proper deterrent, but not so small that it's the cost of doing business. Thank you, and my last question is, since it's your take that the Senate bill has stalled out, do you foresee it coming back next legislative session? It's hard to say, Councilwoman, I would not be surprised. But I am a big advocate that there's, what, nine months until the next legislative session. So I think it would be a long time for council to wait to see what happens there. And I suspect that if it has stalled out this session, I would think that the opposition will be just as vociferous next session. Because, I mean, as my friends in the shelter and rescue community can attest here, a lot of folks have been up in arms about that bill. Because it masks or raids as an attempt to try to regulate pet shops, but in reality it is simply a preemptive measure that keeps you from doing what's being considered today. Thank you, and thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councilmember Savigny. Thank you, Chair, thanks so much for the presentation. I just have a few different questions. Is there another way that any government entity is already trying to accomplish this? For instance, is there a way to basically say you're responsible when you sell pets for 90 days' guarantee, 90 days' worth of medical? I would think that there's another way to accomplish it, and I don't know if any other jurisdictions have looked at that. Yeah, that's a good question, Councilman. So some communities have tried what I'll call the regulatory route, which I think is what you're getting at. Like rather than imposing a prohibition, let's require X, Y, and Z. The problem is that those communities have ultimately gone with a prohibition because unlike, As I'd mentioned to Councilmember Fogle about flying in the face of a prohibition, a lot of these shops have just skirted around that. So for instance, in Boone County, Kentucky, they adopted regulations. And one of the pet shops in question has a location up there too. And I know from speaking with the animal control director in that locality that it's more headache than it's worth. So that's, regulations have been tried, regulations have been failed, and so they've ultimately moved to adopt what's being considered here. Okay, and then the other thing is I would think with jurisdiction wise, we are bordered by so many counties. What are pets sold in any of the surrounding counties through pet stores? In any of the surrounding counties to Fayette, no, I do not believe so. I believe that so there are other pet stores in surrounding counties, but to my knowledge none of those pet stores sell dogs and cats. It's strictly within this area, the two that we're talking about here. And actually, if I may, Councilman, just one more thought on your regulatory question. Yeah, yeah. One of the themes we've talked about today is enforcement. I think a regulatory route would require a much higher degree of enforcement. So if you have the 90 days for instance, then you would have to have an officer document when the puppy was sold, when that 90 days was up, have a continued correspondence with the individual. Did they do this? Did they do that? So it seems like that would be a much higher burden on your animal control. Okay, and then my next question kind of. may not be to you, but I believe we have an ordinance that or something that basically says for whatever we find, we can't basically, we can't, our enforcement, it's got to be towards enforcement costs. Isn't that right, fellow council members? Or law? If someone's here, maybe they're not. I can, okay. Could you rephrase what you said? So what I'm interested in is if we charge, and then let's say we did it as $500 a pet that you're offering for sale versus sold. So if we find a pet store $3,000, do we have to use that $3,000 to enforce the ordinance? So with your question, if we collect a fine, do we have to use that fine to further enforcement? Yeah. Not unless you expressly say that. Okay. And even then, we would have, there's always a concern about dedicating revenue in whatever form it arrives, arrives which would include fines to specific purposes so we would have to think about that i think before it may be that if we charge fees i guess revenue fees i think that's what we have to use for enforcement um and then yeah um have and has anyone else done per per animal offered for sale like as any other jurisdiction because it would be a lot easier i think to go in and look at You got 14 cats for sale and three dogs for sale in your store today and here's your fine. Super easy. So, Councilman, I actually do not have a copy of the ordinance in front of me. I don't know if, I'll have to check the verbiage that's in the current draft. It says both. Yeah, that's, I was, thank you. Got it. And my time's up, but that's fine. I just was just curious if people do that. Thank you. Vice Mayor Will. Thank you, Chair, for recognizing me, though I don't serve on this committee. Thank you for your presentation. As the parent of three rescue cats, this really speaks to me, and I am in support of this proposed ordinance. I have a few questions for you, though. So in terms of kind of the practical effect of this sort of ban, do you feel like it's more a deterrent, as in it stops those stores who would be doing this from doing it at all, or is it more that some of them are willing to kind of take on these fines? Do you have numbers, let's say, from E-Town or Radcliffe or Louisville in terms of how many penalties were actually incurred over let's say the first several months versus down the road? Did people completely stop? Sure, so I think generally the answer, Vice Mayor, is that it is more of a deterrent. For the Kentucky communities, actually Elizabethtown and Radcliffe passed their ordinances after a puppy shop had left town. It was a preventative measure to happen again. Louisville's ordinance has not gone into effect yet, so I can't speak to the Kentucky ordinances. But generally we find that, as I had mentioned to Councilwoman Lynch, it is truly a deterrent and the businesses do comply with the law. I mean, there have been instances, one off instances where, for instance, a pet shop in Houston said, no, we're not doing this anymore. And they actually issued an arrest warrant for the individual, the shop owner. I like to think that it would not come to that in Lexington. And I strongly suspect that it wouldn't. Thank you for that. The way this ordinance is written, it talks a lot about outdoor spaces as a prohibited space for sale. So obviously, folks, if I'm just a private breeder of cats and dogs, you wanted to buy one of my cats, you would come to my house, I would come to your house, whatever. Those are all still okay under this ordinance, right? Yes sir, it's the direct sale, that's the key. So if you bring your litter to the flea market and the individual buys at the flea market, that would be unlawful. But if the same breeder has the individual come to the direct sale, like where the puppies are, that would be totally fine. And again, most breed, I'll use the term responsible breeder again. The responsible breeder is certainly going to encourage the latter of those two. Because as I said, they want to know that the puppies that they've raised are going to a good home, rather than not knowing what happens, not knowing where they're going to go. Thank you. And I can't speak actually, Vice Mayor, I'm sorry. For Elizabethtown and Radcliffe, they have had instances already of the outdoor sales, where they've had to step in. I would say those are probably approaching double digits. maybe more, but that's in two years of enactment. So as I said, as I mentioned to Council Member Baxter, the flea markets is not every weekend, we're going to be policing this, it's not that frequent. But the ordinance still, I would argue, should include that for the instances that it does occur. Thank you. And then lastly, when thinking about the separate offenses. So let's say somebody reports that a store is still selling dogs. The animal control folks walk in there, find proof that they've sold, let's say one dog, and then they've got three dogs behind the glass that are presented for sale. That's four violations. Yeah, so just to circle back on Councilmember Savigny's question, to quote from the ordinance, If the retail sale sells or offers for sale a dog or cat in violation of subsection B shall upon conviction be subject to a fine of $500. Each sale or offers for sale shall be a violation. So you're correct in that example that would be four. And in this case there's no cease and desist. It's just that the regulatory agent could come back tomorrow, look and see that you still have three dogs behind glass for sale and issue you another three fines. Yes sir, unless there is some, and that may be a law question, if there is elsewhere in Lexington's animal control ordinance, something that would supersede that. I'm not aware of something like that, but if they, maybe there is something and I'm not aware of it. But I can tell you from what I understand that no, there's no escalating cease and desist, something like that. Great, thank you so much. Sure. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. I'm going to recognize Council Member Menares because she serves on this committee and has not spoken yet. Thank you, Chair. I just wanted to make a motion. I make a motion to adopt the ordinance as presented, prohibiting the sale of dogs and cats by retail stores. So moved. Second. There was a motion and a second to move the ordinance forward. Is there any discussion? I'm getting ready to ask for discussion. Is there any discussion on the motion? Please sign in. Are those names, is that still good? Yeah. Okay. Okay, Councilmember Fogel. So this is not a discussion on the motion, it's just a statement because I work on a state level with my full time job. Please do not take the state legislators and don't assume because on the 15th, They will gavel in, they will not gavel out until midnight. Please be on the watch because they're really good at- Point and order, Council member, I'm sorry, we're only allowed to speak about the motion. Okay, well, she made the motion before we could make her comments, so I guess I don't have anything on the motion. Sorry, do you have anything on the motion? No, I have nothing on the motion. I just had another comment that was waiting to be had, so I'll wait. Okay, any comments on the motion? Okay, all those in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay, that motion passes. Madam Chair, if I may, before I go, I'm happy to answer follow up questions, members, individually. Just wanted to say for the record. Thank you all for your time. Thank you very much. Well, so usually how it works, that's the way that our, no, anybody can do that at any time. You can make a motion straight off or you can make a motion anytime. So that's just kind of the way that our. So I would like to make a motion. Can I make a motion that I can ask my question? I mean, it's not, we're not, we've finished. But you're welcome to. Chair, may I make a comment? Yes, of course, vice chair. If there's something else that you would like to say, you're free to do that in council comments or when this is presented during work session. So I'm just going to say something about the way that our process works. So when we're doing legislation, we have time for comments and we have time for questions. And then anybody can make a motion at any time. And once that motion has been made, we can only make comments on that motion. An amendment can be made and then we can make comments on the amendment. But it's just the way the process is. Okay, thank you. Okay, well, hopefully, I don't think anybody did anything maliciously, but we're going to continue and hopefully between now and next month you can get your questions answered. Okay. Thank you so much, Todd, for being here. Danny, I really appreciate both of your presentation and being willing to answer questions. Okay, now we are going on to the gun violence task force report out. So, I'm going to take this opportunity. to say several things. One being that the Gun Violence Task Force, while I was the chair, the comments that you're going to hear are not from me. They're from a whole task force group. And I'm going to turn the chair over to Council Member Baxter because I'll be making the presentation. So would you take the chair? Yes, ma'am. I will recognize Council Member Reynolds for introduction of this item. Thank you. I want to start off by thanking the amazing people who gave of their time and expertise and contributed a lot, a lot, a lot to this task force. You'll see their names in a moment. Several of these people are here today. If you served on the task force and attended meetings, could you please raise your hand highly, everybody out there. I see some folks, yeah, thank you. We have public safety, we have One Lexington, we have community partners, and I'm just really grateful for them. I also want to I want to give a huge thanks to my legislative aide, Sarah Morales. She and Kendra Thompson from our core staff worked many hours and attended meetings at night and put notes and packets together. So I could not have done this without them. Also a huge thanks to Councilwoman Fogel for her invaluable help in bringing our amazing community partners to the table. She played a huge role in making this task force happen and I could not have done it without her help. I also want to thank Councilmember Lynch for serving on the task force and attending lots of meetings. I want to shout out to the Lexington Public Library for allowing us to meet late at the Central Library and for Sheriff Witt who allowed us to use space at the District Courthouse. So this task force was something that I established with the former vice mayor at the end of 2022. And we wanted to kind of get our bearings and we started meeting officially in August of 2023. It was formed because I had heard out in the community and from a lot of constituents, their desire to hear more about what the city was doing around gun violence. And so we wanted to provide recommendations to the council and the administration on ways to prevent, mitigate, and address gun violence in Lexington. We were, I feel like we were asked by the public to explain this more wholly. We realize that some of the stats on gun violence have gone way down from what they were a few years ago, but we want to keep the numbers as low as possible moving forward, and one shooting is too many. So we want to put tools in place to prevent them from rising again. And something that I heard a lot was we want the city to address gun violence head on. we don't want them to shy away from that work we want them to address it um and and confront it so uh then i have a list there's a um we have some members here today but here um you're going to see a list of the participants um and there's two separate slides there were people that came maybe one time, but that weren't officially on the task force or didn't come more than once. And so their names are not up there. There were a lot of people that participated over the time that we met, but the ones that officially participated are on your screen. And so we started meeting in two separate groups once a month from August 2023 to March 2024. And we decided to do this in two separate groups because it was going to be a really big group and we felt like it would be helpful to get down to answering the questions more easily. So the first was the community pillars group and it was compromised of community partners. And then the city leaders group was comprised of government officials and public safety. So the community pillars group sought to answer from a constituent's perspective, what else could the local government do to address gun violence? And the city leaders group sought to say how, as a local government, can we further intervene and prevent gun violence in Lexington? And the groups, like I said, met separately with their different angles and then for four months and then they came together after that and met together for three months. So I feel that we had a lot of really productive conversations. Sometimes they were intense, sometimes they were very sensitive because we were talking about emotional topics that are really close to a lot of people. But I do feel like we have productive conversations that led to these recommendations. And I believe that, like I said previously, what the community wants is us to not shy away from addressing gun violence. So I don't think that this group entered into these recommendations lightly, nor do I think that this group sought out to have specific things in mind. I feel like this is what we came up with with the work that we did in the months that we did. And that if we continued meeting, we could come up with more recommendations and maybe have additional perspectives. But this is the list that we agreed upon. So from the community pillars recommendations, the first one is to recommend the LFUCG define gun violence as a public health crisis. So this means elevating it. The emphasis would include but not be limited to funding, marketing research, implementation, data collection to support programs, identify risk factors, use evaluation to help frame policies for LFUCG and LFUCG will ensure that these policies take place. So the idea is to elevate it to the status of opioid crisis or it's time campaign that would activate social services in our community. So that is something that oftentimes our partners in the community feel like they're not supported. And so this would kind of make them feel supported and raise awareness to the issue. This could be commercials, it could be PR, it could be having a consistent group meeting with community members informing the city on issues related to gun violence. The next recommendation is the LFUCG and the community would support a three month long violence awareness movement with events and services to provide support and acknowledge affected families. Starting with the annual Antonio Franklin Jr. VIP Peace Walk in April, which is coming up this weekend, through the end of June, National Gun Violence Awareness Month. Additionally, locally recognize the month of June as Gun Violence Awareness Month. So this is just kind of saying we would like to officially dedicate time to bring awareness to gun violence. And this recommendation was from the group of how they wanted to do that. Next, let's see. We have a recommendation for the expansion of access and services at all community centers in the city. So this is something that would allow flexible evening and weekend access to community organizations to offer programming that could prevent violence in the surrounding communities. So the list would include Dunbar, Castlewood, Tates Creek, Kenwick, and then also William Wells Brown, Charles Young, and Black and Williams. I spoke with Commissioner Ford about this, and he was open to the idea. This is something that we've talked about on and off for many years, just the need for more space, really for youth to use it in our community and after school, in the evenings and on weekends. And so this is a recommendation coming out of this task force, but it's something that I've been hearing myself for several years about the need of it in the community. So, and we realize that this could possibly have a budget impact to be able to allow those buildings to be available, but we think that it is important for the city to invest in the community in this way. So we made some recommendations and then we also had suggestions. And really the suggestions are honestly just conversations that we had that did not make it into a recommendation. But things that we thought were important. So if you look down on the community pillar suggestion, I'm not going to go ahead. I'm not going to read all of this because there's a longer list for coming up. But I want you all to just like read over that and know kind of what we were talking about as a group, things that we cared about. So that should be in your packet. So city leader recommendations. The first one was to recommend that One Lexington provide a flow chart to how council can get involved and share information with their constituents about gun violence. One Lexington will inform the council of their neighborhood engagement events. And this really came out of a conversation of oftentimes we get police reports and we see gun violence events that happen in our district and we don't know what to do. And sometimes one likes is responding to those and sometimes they're doing peace walks and sometimes they're passing out groceries and this was just kind of them giving us a way of how we might be able to be helpful. And they would give us guidance on that so that this is not us taking charge and doing anything. It's just if there's a way we can be involved in the community how to do that. The next one is recommend that council provide continued support for co-response teams and mobile crisis teams to allow for rapid response to acute behavioral health emergencies in the city. This could reduce gun violence. So it would be providing support for additional behavior health specialists to assist public safety like the paramedicine program. I think this council is super supportive of those initiatives already, But this is saying we think this can really help impact gun violence and we want to continue to support them and expand and that this could help reduce gun violence. So that was that recommendation. The next one is recommend the establishment of grant for victim services for the needs of families impacted by gun violence through social services. So this is something that both city leaders and community partners identified as a need. Some felt this should be under one Lexington and some felt that it should be in social services. So there was kind of a disagreement about where that fund should go. but it was agreed that there should be one. So I just wanted to briefly state that. And then the next one says that we recommend that LFUCG expand their scope to address gun violence for all ages, not just 13 to 29. So we know that it's good to be focused on certain target demographics in order to accomplish goals. So nobody is saying that. They're just saying that this task board is recommending that the city focus on all ages and that that could look differently. It could come out of the mayor's office or it could come out of social services or somewhere else. But that there are a lot of events that happen that are not in that age group, and that the city should look at all age groups when they're talking about gun violence. Next is the recommendation to support funding for extensive counseling for youth and families impacted by gun violence. So it's the next few are saying like we want to, we would like support in those items and we think that they are crucial for addressing gun violence. So for that one, it's support for counseling. And then the next one is the recommendation to support funding in the budget for youth group trauma informed care sessions for youth impacted by gun violence, which shows to really impact people that have been affected by gun violence, the trauma-informed care. So that's what that is about. And then the next one is just kind of a general thing that LFUCG communicate more fully with the community about their work and services dealing with gun violence and have transparency and accountability in their budget. It's just kind of we would like to know a little bit more what's happening. There's a lot. Our public safety and one-likes are doing amazing things. And then we have also community partners doing amazing things and just finding a way that we can work together and communicate well. And then those are some city leaders' suggestions. Council Member Reynolds? Yes. Are you going to need a few more minutes or can you wrap up? I am almost done, thank you. So those are kind of our main, I guess, our main recommendations. So today we just want to just move these recommendations forward. And that is all I have at the moment. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for the presentation and Thank you to everybody who invested their time and energy in this task force. Shoot. I'm sorry. Yes, ma'am. I'm sorry. I made a really big mistake, and I had asked for an extra. May I have an extra five minutes? Yes, ma'am. I am so sorry. I did not see her over here. We have Ms. Tana Lindsay here, and she is going to give a very brief testimony about how gun violence has impacted her. And so if she could come to the podium to do that, that would be great. And I apologize, I meant to ask that from the beginning. And then, so Miss Lindsey served on the task force and does a lot of work with folks in the community around gun violence and has a nonprofit. So I just asked her, we could give you many, many, many testimonies of people who live in our community and been affected by gun violence, but just wanted to give you one today. So thank you. Thank you. And thank you for your time. As she said before, my name is Tanya Lindsay. I'm the mother of Izabian Lindsay, who fell short to gun violence at the age of 16 at the hand of his half-brother. When I started this trauma, when this trauma impacted me, there was no services. There was no resources. So I started my own non-profit, and it's called Sisters and Supporters, Working Against Gun Violence. And we aim to serve victims and support them by providing them free resources. We also aim to bring awareness and education and prevention to the community. I like to consider myself a survivor and a victim. During the course of my journey, because that's what I call it, it's not a story, it's a journey. A story has a beginning and an end. A journey is lifetime. I've dealt with trauma, mental health. I've dealt with families and friends being impacted by gun violence. I have a bitter story that I have to tell today. I have a son that was the age five at the time of this incident. Today, he celebrates his 16th birthday. His remark to me this morning was, I wish I didn't have to have a 16th birthday. We are here a decade later, and we have been triggered 10 years later because of the number 16. I lost one son at the age of 16, and today I have another one turning 16. Over the years, I've had to deal with family members, best friends, have attempted suicide, Last week, he lost a childhood friend that OD'd and died due to the trauma and the impact of the violence, the gun violence, that they have endured over the years that no one has never addressed. There are so many families that look like mine even if they don't speak up or they don't make it known. As a victim or survivor, I stand here today asking that we keep in mind that this is a lifetime journey with many curves and waves. You may have triggers at a mark of five months, a trigger at a mark of five years, and even maybe 20 or 30 years later. And because of that, grief, trauma, and mental health, it looks so different for everybody. but one thing we know that is in common is lifetime. That's why I feel like we are in need for long-term, sustainable access to mental health, victim services, prevention and intervention programs. And in my closing, I would like for gun violence and families and communities that have been impacted to stay in the forefront by providing sustainable accessible long-term services and resources that is definitely needed for families and communities that have been impacted by gun violence in order to heal and move forward to look for a better tomorrow thank you for sharing your story and for all the work you do in the community thank you thank you okay we can open it to questions all right so i will open the floor for questions and council member subigni thank you um i just have a and thank you so much for sharing it does uh it does help and it really helps humanize it so i i appreciate that and i'm sorry that you've gone through that um my question uh for you council member rentals is i think you're the chair of this group so um how does it how do we typically decide what the next steps are like does each one of those get submitted as an action item i'm just kind of curious i'm just kind of curious where we go from here there's different ways so it's a it's a task force report out so what i'm asking today is to just move all of it to the full council as a group of report out recommendations okay so then does the task force dissolve Or do we end up taking, if I am interested in item A, I focus on that? I just don't know exactly how that works. So actually, thank you for bringing that up because I was going to mention that at the end. This task force said that they wanted to continue meeting in some form or another. And we haven't decided exactly what that is yet, but they will want to continue their work. But probably it would be, if we move this forward and we forward it to the council, it would then be up to us and the administration on implementing everything. Yeah, and that's kind of what I, I was trying to figure out exactly what we do with this report out at this point. And it makes some sense, so I appreciate it. And I think the topic is not going away. And I was surprised that it was interesting how the community pillars people talked a lot. It seemed like a lot more about gun control, which I think there's obviously some needs for that. But the city leader group didn't do that as much. And I think it's probably because of the way that we have laws written in our state and federally that make it very difficult. So I appreciate that and the attention to that, especially from the community builders. Thank you. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Council Member Fred Brown. Thank you, Chair. And thanks to the committee and all the work that everyone participated in that, because obviously gun violence is a major topic, not only in Lexington, it's in the state and all over the nation. Looking at all these city leaders' suggestions that you have here, it's pretty comprehensive. And, you know, next step forward, I think, probably need to be, those items need to be broken down a little bit. I'm interested in what you all discussed as far as the funding of all this because obviously it's going to take some budget dollars. And I don't know what's in, if you looked at where you could get the money or if it was already in the budget somewhere or if this was one of the items. That's a question to you as a chair, I guess. We are we talked about adding budget items to each thing and if we should or shouldn't and decided right now to say that we would like these things included in the future but we did not put a particular number on them yet. You'd certainly have to have some money in there for parks and recreation, which takes care of the centers. And then you'd have to have some money involved in social services and probably the police department and one Lexington. So, you know, where do we look at how much money we put into this? And not only what we've already put in the budget, but what going forward. So I think that's an item that should be looked at as you further, you know, discuss this issue. Also, personnel. I'm not sure where we're at in the personnel area, but obviously it would take some more people in the particular divisions to do some things of this nature. And, you know, I think we're doing a good job, but I don't think it's the best. I think marketing is still an important part of one lexington and the whole situation of gun violence. And I'm not sure if the task force reached out to what other communities are doing, but I'm sure there's some models out there of task force and gun violence that maybe we could use. I don't know that it would be in ordinance form, maybe more of a resolution form or something to combat that. And I'm interested in us at least getting the police involved as much as we can because that's certainly an area. The police were involved in the task force. Yeah, I understand that. But, I mean, there's still a paramount part of this equation, certainly. And then I noticed there that you had, there was a mention of the public schools. And I think Fayette County public schools have got to be a big part of what we address and how we can handle gun violence. Because, you know, across the nation, you always hear the schools are the ones that are getting, having so many problems. So I commend you on what you've done there. I think it's a step forward, but I would like to see it broken down into some segments and continue in committee, I guess, as we go along. So that would be my suggestion. Thank you. Thank you. Council Member Plowman. Thank you, Chair. Looking down that list of folks that you've had working, I mean, it's like the who's who, And I think everybody that worked on it had a voice and obviously contributed to the results and a lot of good recommendations. Again, like Council Member said, what are the real next steps on that? I'd be curious to know, did you talk about accessibility of guns? Because it surprises me every time I read something, these young people have gotten guns. And I think that's a big part of this. We have a gun show that advertises twice a year on billboards and on television. What are the restrictions on that? We've got pawn shops that have a lot of guns for sale. And so the whole accessibility is something I'd be really interested in seeing it all look at. Okay. Did you specifically talk about the gun shows? Yeah, we did, and I looked into the law. And unfortunately, that's not something that we can intervene on. We were hoping maybe there was something there that we could intervene on with gun shows, but we cannot. Is that state? Yeah. Okay. All right. Still accessibility is a big deal. And we did talk about accessibility, how people get into cars and don't lock their guns up in their house. And we talked about all of that in different ways. Thank you. Thank you. Councilwoman Gray? you council member vice chair question for council member Reynolds as chair of of this task force have you spoken with social services to see their capacity and and taking in because i heard that social services mentioned a lot so yeah so we haven't sat down with social services at length to talk about to talk about that um i did talk like i said with commissioner ford about the community center side of it but we haven't sat down at length to talk about the you know what would it look like because these were kind of slightly more on the vague side and not as specific and if we were to get into the specifics obviously that would be 100% necessary. Yeah. And before I go any further, just I would like to say thank you to everyone that participated, especially those from the community who have been personally affected by gun violence. I have attended one of your sessions, Ms. Tanya, Lindsay, that you had at the Dunbar Community Center earlier last year sometime. Because I, too, have personally been affected by gun violence. As I've had two of my cousins who have been murdered. I had one cousin where a gentleman mistakenly killed him, thought he was his neighbor. But then went back the very next, I guess, the next hours later when he figured out he killed the wrong person and killed the neighbor. And it happened in the 6th District. So, gun violence, it's real. as a reformed educator with Fayette County Public Schools, having students who have picked up guns, who are carrying weapons to school for safety, I know how real this issue is. I know personally how real it is. I know from my students, like I said, just speaking with someone today at MLK, where last week, or may have been within 24 hours, it was a shooting of a juvenile, right? students are carrying these weapons and I'm thankful for the suggestions that were made it threw me off with the suggestions with dare being recommended that threw me way off as someone that was a Darrell model I can tell you how effective that is but I would like for to see the committee to go deeper I need some data I need I need some more help because these I just need things that are just more concrete and I'm thankful that you did mention the financial aspect because we do need to think deeper and because if we want to make gun violence a true issue for the city of Lexington we have to put our money where we say that we care. And I'm hoping that going forward that this committee, is it still ongoing? Chair? We want to continue meeting, but we haven't decided how we're doing that yet. Okay. Whatever the next steps are, I'm hoping that we get some concrete, real solutions instead of, I just need some real, because we have young people, and even adults, but more importantly, we have young people who are facing gun violence every day. And it seems a little fairy tale. Some of the suggestions seem very fairy tale to what our kids and what the families are facing in our community. So I'm hoping for some more realness. I would like to see Fayette County Public Schools to be involved. I was hoping for at least one social worker or for someone from Fayette County Public Schools that's highly invested in what our young people are dealing with, with the accessibility of the guns and the weapons and the mental health issues that are real, extremely real. More real than people outside the Fayette County Public Schools and if you don't have children. No, it's some real stuff. It's some scary stuff. So great start, but I need to see some realness. I need to see more people who are actually in the profession of mental health, those who are actually on the ground dealing with our young people and even our adults. We just need, I would like to see more. But I'm so thankful for you all taking your time and letting us know what you want to see happen in our city. So thank you. And I pray for all of us who have experienced gun violence because it never ends. Every single day I wake up and I think about my cousins. And I know you think about your son. I know you think about your son and your daughter. So this is real, real. And I just want us to go a little bit deeper and get to the real. Thank you. Council Member James Brown. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Council Member Reynolds, for your work on this and taking on such a monumental task. I know gun violence is a huge subject, and there's a lot involved in it. And also to the other Council Members involved, Council Member Fogel Councilmember Lynch and all the community partners, agencies, and folks impacted by gun violence. Thank you for your work and your commitment to this effort. My first question is in regards to the Community Pillars recommendation in regards to making gun violence a public health crisis. What is involved in doing that? I mean is there a metric, is there a survey that goes out for it to actually be deemed by the health department or someone for it to be gun violence to be deemed a public health crisis, which would open it up to funding and all kind of other resources. I think recently I spoke with a director of a local health department, not here in Lexington, but here in Kentucky, who was talking about actually the importance of making gun violence a public health crisis and that you can partner with the health department and you can do PSAs and things like that. I think it depends on how you want to do it. Do you want to bring in the health department? Do you want to make it bigger? Or do you want to do it just locally and put resources around it saying that this is something that, you know, we're going to elevate and we're going to talk about? So I think there's different ways. And I think that if we wanted to make it bigger, we would probably need to do some more research. But I think if you're just talking about elevating it here locally, it just means kind of saying this is an issue that we are talking about. Yeah, and I appreciate that. My first thought would be I would want to make it something official. I would want to get the health department involved and make it a local official stat or emphasis or point of emphasis. Just because I think, you know, when we're having conversations about funding, when grants at the federal level and the state level become available, if it is deemed and we went through the steps to make it a local public health emergency or crisis, then that opens the door to resources. So I think whatever we need to do to elevate that conversation, and I think it starts with the local health department and statistics. The other question I have, so I think that needs to be a priority or a next step, and whether that needs to be a committee item, I will let you decide. The other question is the city leader's recommendation number three in regards to the grant for victim services. Is anybody here from social services? Is Commissioner Allen Bryant here? My question is, is with the recent change to the ESR grants in making mental health a priority, does gun violence and addressing victims of gun violence, is that going to be something that we're going to try to fund agencies that provide those services? Oh, sure. So there are, again, there's four priority areas for ESR. There's community wellness and safety. That's one area where we get some gun violence related grants. There's child and youth development. You can get some grants that are gun violence related to youth. There's food insecurity, which unless it has something to do with providing food for those who are victims of gun violence, probably is not going to be applicable. And then mental health would be looking at some of those underlying issues that lead to gun violence or the effects of people experiencing gun violence and the sequela of those. So, yeah, I mean, there's definitely, and we do get some grants that are related to either directly or indirectly related to gun violence. Okay. So I think we just need to do our best, and maybe you're already doing it. is communicating to agencies that provide that service that mental health is a focus in this current ESR grant allocation and get the word out to folks so they can submit grants that really focus on this in regards to gun violence. And you know we did the press release of course and we've got, you know we advertise through our media that we use. I will also say that in the RFPs there are detailed lists of possible proposals and people will see the gun violets in there as well. Thank you for that, Commissioner. I have another question related to that, but I'll just circle. I'll sign back in. Related to ESR? Yeah. No, no, not ESR. Thank you. Councilmember Legree? Thank you, Chair. I appreciate the opportunity to speak, especially because I'm not on this committee. Councilmember Reynolds, first, I appreciate this report out and all of the months of work that it's taken for everybody involved to get us to this point. Thank you for your knowledge and for all of your labor and your input and these extensive recommendations from both pillars. You know, I was thinking a little bit about some of the questions that were asked previously. Councilmember Fred Brown and Councilmember James Brown asked questions about the how, like the breakdown for each one of these recommendations because I think that there are different and robust ways that we could go about pursuing something like extensive counseling funding for youth and families impacted by gun violence. Or, for example, the recommendation that was just discussed when we're talking about the declaration of a public health crisis. And then some of these have budgetary processes that might be involved. So when I was thinking about that, I was wondering, Council Member Reynolds, with your report out, are you thinking that you'll report out the broad recommendations as stated here in addition to the community pillar recommendations and then go deeper down into the constituent steps from there? Or how can we help support making these items actionable, I think is my main question. Thank you for that question. I appreciate it. So I think that the idea behind what our work was was to say these are things that we think are important that have to do with gun violence, and we're making these recommendations to the council and to the administration. so we could go back and spend another year and maybe we need to do that on breaking each thing down more. The idea I think out of our group was we're saying these things are important and we're saying now the council and the administration can figure out what the best way to implement them is Okay. And so I think that, and I understand the questions about, you know, we didn't give specific budgetary numbers or they were too vague or we didn't do this or that. So, and that's all very fair and we could go back and we could continue to work and try to do that. But I think our idea was to say, we can make it something super specific and hand it to the council administration, or we can say these are things that are important to us. some of them are a little more specific than others and and we want to give it to you to say now what do you think the best way to do it is so reporting it out we could keep it in committee and break it down more if we wanted to or we could report it out and say we're gonna you know break these down and work on them differently throughout the government okay I think that's really that's really helpful to me to understand your process and then you know some of the various ways forward because there might be some items that are, as mentioned in here, already in or request for the mayor's proposed budget for the cycle, for example. So I appreciate that. It's helpful. I did have a specific question about item number four with the city leader recommendations, which was about expanding the scope to address gun violence for all ages, not just ages 13 through 29 and I know that community centers could be involved in different organizations within the community. I was curious about Partners for Youth and their work in this space and if they have any kind of collaboration that they're doing right now with One Lexington or with other community organizations that might help meet some of those needs. Well, they work with youth and so this is expanding it beyond youth. Oh, so I was looking at, this is 13 through 29, so I was thinking about even younger children. Oh, I think we were mostly thinking of older, but that was, I think, the desire of the task force was talking about older than 29. And I think OneLex is doing some work to try to expand things younger. All right. I just was interested, especially when it comes to community center work. I think those are my main questions. Thank you all again to all of the individuals who collaborated on this, and thank you, Council Member, for this initial report out. I appreciate it. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Council Member Lynch. Thank you, Chair. I just wanted to chime in and thank Council Member Reynolds, Council Member Fogle, for convening our task force around a very, very tough and hard issue for us to talk about. We had a lot of diverse voices at the table, folks that brought diverse experiences, which I think helped the conversation immensely. And I'm thankful for everyone that gave up their time, especially our community members that volunteered their personal time to come out and to tackle this very hard issue. I just want to say that the recommendations that we were able to find consistency on, I think are good. And some are going to be more labor intensive than others, and some are going to be more monetarily heavy than others. But this work gave me hope and I was glad to be a part of this work. And so I think that the recommendations that we've come up with as a task force are going to completely complement what One Lexington is already doing and has been doing. And I'm super appreciative of the work they're doing in the community. So I think that these building blocks of recommendations that we've come up with will work excellently alongside the work that One Lexington is doing so that we can work collaboratively to take on this huge issue. Because it's going to take not just our police department, not just one Lexington, but really all of us digging in and wrapping our arms around this issue that is systemic here in our community. So thank you again, Councilmember Reynolds, Councilmember Fogle, and our community pillars, and the community for giving up your time, your energy, your labor. And I'm sure these conversations were not easy, and some of them were probably very triggering. So thank you for coming alongside us, and I look forward to continuing this work however we see that evolve. Thank you. Thank you. Council Member Fogel. Thank you, Chair. Plus one to everything Council Member Lynch said. Council at Large Brown is certainly a health issue, and we are in crisis. I, too, like Council Member Gray, my son was shot six times. He did make it through it. But I watch Ms. Lindsey, Ms. Birch, and other mothers in the community. And I don't know exactly what they're going through, but I know that we are in a crisis. I thank One Lexington for the prevention work that they do. However, when we look at the headlines and when the police are called, it's not the people in elementary that's shooting. It's that 16 to 29 year old. It's the trauma that these parents are going through. And that triggering effect, I mean, I can hear a song, the same song that was playing when I got the call that my son was fighting for his life with six bullets in him. And then my niece in just recent days was shot by an adult where there was a fight that broke out on, I think in the eighth district and it continued over in the first district. And so she's still fighting for her life. She made it through surgery, but she was 14. So we're saying that that emotional, spiritual, and physical toll that it takes on a person in the families is definitely a health crisis. And so I don't know the monies that we need to put into mental health services. I hope that when we talk about counselors, we talk about counselors in local. That's what I would recommend, that it would be people from Lexington or surrounding because the impact will have an effect on people who are providing those services, rather than someone that's abroad that we may bring in. Fayette County Schools is definitely, I don't ever read where there's intense mental health services going into those schools after a shooting has occurred with those students. I don't know if that's happening or not, I just know I haven't seen it in the headlines. But I hope that it's happening. Thank you, I had an amazing time. Pillars, you volunteered your time, you came out, you shared your emotions and your stories with us. We are so, so proud of you. And then when we mixed with the administration, and the administration was able to hear your stories. The police department does a job that they have to do, the paramedicine steps up. And all of those entities and one legs and their program. But you all brought that human side and things that we miss, that intimate conversation. This April, who's not here today, she told us in that last meeting that after so many years she still looked out her window. She has complications getting into her house, in the wheelchair that she is in for the rest of her life. And so we got to hear those stories. I just want to say, and I'm so excited about moving forward with you all in other meetings, until we convened back together because it doesn't stop. And so Mr. Marguer, I don't know if he's here or not, but and Whit Whitaker, I don't want to start calling out names, but all of you all, Miss Frida, every one of you brought something different. And so Councilmember Lynch, thank you for joining us. There was a mention of something legal and Councilmember Lynch jumped in and gave us some advice. And so we were excited about that, everybody that was at the table. And Councilmember Reynolds, thank you. I was a freshman coming in the door when you knocked on my door and said, would you please consider being a part of this team? And so I thank you for that opportunity. Thank you, Council. I know we're going to do the right thing by our citizens, and that's all. I didn't even have a question. Thank you for your boldness and your vulnerability today, letting us know what you still suffer through. So I hope we do address those family issues and the trauma that a person goes through each day because we don't know what that trauma is and how deep it goes. Thank you, Chair. Thank you so much. Thank you. Councilwoman Gray? Well, thank you there, Vice Chair. um was nami and uh a question for uh council member reynolds um was nami involved with any because i saw it was mentioned um for regarding the mental health aspect have they been reached i think they were invited Okay, I thought you had more. Just going forward, sorry about that. Just as you go forward, my hope is that you, that the community pillars and the community leaders will meet as one, because this is, I feel this is an issue that we, being separate is not going to get us to where we are what we need is to be working together the police along with the community one Lexington along with the community and with the leaders everyone together in one room working on everything I just wanted to say that before we closed out because I saw that we had two separate groups that were meeting at two separate times that's not going to get us to where we need to get okay thank you thank you once again I just want to thank council member Reynolds and vocal and Lynch for your work on this very important issue in the time that you and the community is invested council Reynolds did you have anything else at this time yes I just wanted to move to or to keep this in committee and do some more work it sounds like the council would rather have a more specific list than move this current list forward so I I will keep it in committee as my item under gun violence and do some more work on the specific items to come back with a more definitive list. Okay, thank you. I will hand the chair back over. Thank you. Well, I want to thank everyone for their patience in being here today for these two very different items. I just wanted I think we will not worry about the list of the items referred to committee unless somebody has something in particular that they would like to bring up from that list yes I just wanted to mention that I believe we're doing the recruitment retention thing on July the second so you can put that on the calendar. I think you already said we were doing it then. Yes, it's already on the calendar. Yep, thank you. Okay, is there anything else that anybody has? Any items referred to committee that you want to go over? All right, well then this committee meeting is adjourned and thank you to everyone for being here today. Thank you.