# Planning Commission Zoning Items - May 23, 2024 > Auto-transcribed civic record · May 23, 2024 - **Permalink**: https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/meeting/6119 - **Source video**: https://lfucg.granicus.com/player/clip/6119?view_id=14&redirect=true - **Date**: 2024-05-23 - **Last revised**: May 23, 2024 - **Length**: 11,633 words > ⚠️ **Auto-generated content.** Audio from the official Granicus video was auto-transcribed with OpenAI's open-source Whisper large-v3-turbo model, run locally by The Lexington Times. Structured facts were extracted with GPT-4o; the narrative summary was written by Anthropic Claude. Verbatim wording may contain errors. See [methodology](https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/about/methodology) or [report a correction](mailto:editor@lexingtonky.news). --- ## Meeting Overview The Urban County Planning Commission convened on May 23, 2024, at 1:30 PM in the Council Chamber on the 2nd Floor of the LFUCG Government Center at 200 East Main Street in Lexington, Kentucky, with Larry Forester presiding. The commission addressed four agenda items during the session, including the routine approval of minutes and three substantive policy matters related to zoning amendments and planning updates. Two motions were voted on during the meeting, while no public comments were received. The commission approved the meeting minutes but tabled two significant regulatory proposals - an amendment to Article 8-1 regarding outdoor recreation in the Agricultural Rural (A-R) Zone and new regulations for solar energy systems - indicating these items require further consideration before final action. Additionally, the commission received an informational presentation on the Urban Growth Master Plan Update, providing members with current planning developments without requiring immediate action. ## Attendance The following members were present at the meeting on May 23, 2024: • Larry Forester • Zach Davis • William Wilson • Janice Meyer • Ivy Barksdale • Robin Michler • Mike Owens • Graham Pohl Three members were absent: • Nicol • Worth • Johnathon Davis No members arrived late to the meeting. ## Votes and Decisions The meeting included two motions, both resulting in postponements by unanimous vote of the eight-member body. **PLN-ZOTA-23-00004 - Outdoor Recreation Amendment** [timestamp: 00:30] Mike Owens moved to postpone the amendment to Article 8-1 regarding outdoor recreation in the Agricultural Rural (A-R) Zone, with Graham Pohl providing the second. The motion passed unanimously 8-0, with all members voting in favor: Larry Forester, Zach Davis, William Wilson, Janice Meyer, Ivy Barksdale, Robin Michler, Mike Owens, and Graham Pohl. The postponement was indefinite, contingent on "more serious movement from the applicant." **PLN-ZOTA-24-00003 - Solar Energy Systems Regulation** [timestamp: 01:00] Graham Pohl moved to postpone the regulation of solar energy systems, seconded by Janice Meyer. This motion also passed unanimously 8-0, with the same eight members voting in favor: Larry Forester, Zach Davis, William Wilson, Janice Meyer, Ivy Barksdale, Robin Michler, Mike Owens, and Graham Pohl. Unlike the first item, this postponement has a specific timeline, with the matter scheduled to return at the June 27, 2024 meeting. Both votes demonstrated complete consensus among the planning body members, with no opposition or abstentions recorded for either motion. The postponements suggest the need for additional preparation or information before final consideration of these zoning matters. ## Approval of Minutes [timestamp: 00:10] The board considered approval of the minutes from the April 25, 2024 meeting. Janice Meyer and Ivy Barksdale participated in the discussion of this agenda item. The minutes from the previous meeting were presented for review and approval by the board members. Following their consideration of the document, the board voted to approve the minutes of the April 25, 2024 meeting. The approval was completed without any noted corrections or amendments to the original minutes. ## Amendment to Article 8-1, Outdoor Recreation in the Agricultural Rural (A-R) Zone [timestamp: 00:30] The commission considered agenda item PLN-ZOTA-23-00004, a text amendment to Article 8-1 regarding outdoor recreation uses in the Agricultural Rural (A-R) Zone. The proposed ordinance would reclassify baseball diamonds from an accessory use to a conditional use within this zoning district. Key speakers during the discussion included Mike Owens and Daniel Crum, who presented details about the proposed zoning text amendment and its implications for agricultural rural properties. The amendment represents a significant change in how baseball diamonds would be regulated in A-R zones. Currently classified as accessory uses, baseball diamonds can be established with minimal review processes. The proposed change to conditional use status would require property owners to go through a more comprehensive approval process, including public hearings and detailed site plan reviews before establishing baseball facilities on agricultural rural land. After discussion of the proposal, the commission decided to postpone the item indefinitely rather than move forward with approval or denial. This tabling action effectively removes the amendment from active consideration, though it could potentially be brought back for future review. The indefinite postponement suggests there may have been unresolved concerns about the proposed change, though the specific reasons for tabling the item were not detailed in the available information. The decision means that baseball diamonds will continue to be treated as accessory uses in the Agricultural Rural zone under current regulations. ## Regulation of Solar Energy Systems The Planning Commission considered agenda item PLN-ZOTA-24-00003, a proposed text amendment to facilitate the siting, development, construction, installation, and decommissioning of solar energy systems [timestamp: 01:00]. The ordinance was designed to streamline the regulatory process for solar energy installations within the jurisdiction. Key speakers during the discussion included Daniel Crum and Beth Overman, who presented details about the proposed amendments and their potential impacts on local development processes. The text amendment aimed to address various aspects of solar energy system implementation, from initial site selection and development phases through construction and installation, extending to eventual decommissioning requirements. The proposed changes would modify existing zoning and development regulations to better accommodate renewable energy infrastructure. Following discussion of the agenda item, the Planning Commission determined that additional time was needed to fully review the proposed amendments. Rather than proceeding with a vote, the commission decided to postpone consideration of PLN-ZOTA-24-00003 to allow for further analysis and potential revisions. The item was officially tabled and rescheduled for the Planning Commission's June 27, 2024 meeting. This postponement will provide commissioners and staff additional time to address any outstanding questions or concerns regarding the solar energy system regulations before making a final determination on the proposed text amendment. The delay suggests the commission recognized the importance of thoroughly vetting these regulatory changes given their potential impact on future renewable energy development in the area. ## Urban Growth Master Plan Update [timestamp: 02:00] Samantha Castro provided an informational presentation on the 2024 Urban Growth Master Plan update during the meeting. Castro discussed the current progress of the planning process and outlined the anticipated next steps for the comprehensive plan revision. The presentation served as a status update for the governing body, keeping members informed about the ongoing work on this significant planning document. As an informational item, no formal action was taken by the council or board during this discussion. The Urban Growth Master Plan represents a key planning tool for managing future development and growth within the jurisdiction. Castro's update ensured that elected officials remained current on the planning timeline and process as work continues on the 2024 version of this important document. --- ## Decisions - **PLN-ZOTA-23-00004** — postponed (8-0): Amendment to Article 8-1, Outdoor Recreation in the Agricultural Rural (A-R) Zone - **PLN-ZOTA-24-00003** — postponed (8-0): Regulation of Solar Energy Systems --- ## Full transcript The Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Now we got one person in the audience. How you doing, Mr. Murphy? Standing room only. Standing room only. Let's call this meeting to order. It's May 23rd, 2024. Welcome to the zoning items meeting, Mr. Murphy. And first on the agenda item, we have the approval of minutes. Floor is open for the approval of the April 25th minutes. Mr. Meyer. Mr. Chair, I move for approval of the April 25th, 2024 minutes. Thank you. Do we have a second? second by miss barstow please vote via granicus okay motion passes uh... postponements and withdrawals good afternoon mr chair we have two requests for uh... postponements this afternoon so on page two of your agenda Under Item C, Number 1, ZODA 2304, that's amendment to Article 8-1, Outdoor Recreation in the AR Zone. The applicant has requested a one-month postponement to the June 27th meeting. Okay. The floor is open for a motion. Yes, sir. A curious question. One, this has been going on for some time, continual postponements. I'm all game to move for an indefinite postponement until somebody gets serious about this. Any problem as far as staff? No. Mr. Chair, I'll move for an indefinite postponement plan Zota 23-4, the amendment to Article 8-1, Outdoor Recreational and Air Cultural Rural Zone. Thank you. Do we have that motion? Do we have a second? Second by Mr. Pol. Please vote via Granicus. Okay, that motion passes unanimously. The second item that is going to be postponed today is on that same page, item number two, ZODA 2403, Regulation of Solar Energy Systems. I would also like to note that in Granicus, we did receive a letter from Beth Overman with the Rural Land Management Board, just supporting staff's recommendation of a postponement at this time. But the applicant has talked with staff, and it will be requesting a one-month postponement to the June 27th meeting. Okay. Thank you. We have a recommendation for a one-month postponement for the June 27th meeting. The floor is open. Mr. Poe. Mr. Chair, I move to postpone Plan Zoda 24-3, Regulation of Solar Energy Systems to the June 27th meeting. Thank you. And we have a second by Ms. Meyer. Please vote via Granicus. Okay, the motion passes unanimously. Thank you. So that will put us on commission items. That will move us into our work session, which we will have Samantha Castro talking to us about the Urban Growth Master Plan. Good afternoon. Thank you, everyone. I really appreciate you accommodating me in your very busy zoning day. So I wanted to come in and give you all an update of sort of where we're at. I'm going to lower this so you can see my face. So super brief context. You guys don't need much of a reminder. But again, we're talking about the urban growth master plan and the five expansion areas, which are totaling a little over 2,800 acres. And the point where we are in the process, it's a one-year process that we're on, and we're right now dead in the middle of part two of building the concepts and the draft master plan. So this is the pretty picture part of what we're doing. And then as we sort of wrap these up, we're going to be overlapping and moving into, like I've talked about before, the carrots and the sticks. So what can we do in terms of our regulatory approach to ensure that the visions that you all are starting to see form here have enough teeth to kind of be sustainable over the next 20 to 50 years. And then also the carrot piece, which is how can we incentivize the infrastructure to ensure that the developers want to help us out and make sure that these areas look like we would like them to. And this is kind of a reminder that I like to set when we were talking about it over the two and a half day workshop that we had, was that this isn't a vision for the next year or two. This is a vision for the next 20 beyond years. So when we're showing these areas, they are very large areas. So that's, you know, what we have to remember, that this is all, this all falls under long-range planning. And again, you know, our project goals are always, we have to remember that they're always in alignment with the tenants from the comprehensive plan. So, you know, building successful neighborhoods, improving transportation, protecting the environment, you know, concerns about social and racial equity, and then, of course, thinking about jobs and prosperity. So, this is something that we showed when I presented the two times during the design workshop, was that we really are, the point of these master plans is to sort of lay out a rough master plan, but obviously the developers don't have to follow this exactly, but what it helps us do is ensure that we are starting to lay down a grid system, that we're starting to make sure that we protect the natural features that we want to protect and start to utilize those amenities as well. And that we are really thinking about forming neighborhoods instead of just sort of what we've seen in the past, which is just suburban sprawl. So how do we form neighborhoods instead of just more residential one after the other? So the design workshop. You know, what we were showing were these sort of initial concepts, which are kind of very broad-based. And right now we're working to refine those concepts down. This is an example from elsewhere that my firm TSW has done. And again, I didn't introduce myself. Samantha Castro from TSW. You guys all know me. So in terms of our process, what we tried to do pre-workshop, we went through a lot of these sort of existing conditions, the market, all the sort of big ideas, the surrounding context, engagement from citizens originally, and that was all the stuff that we did leading up to the workshop. At the workshop, we were really trying to get feedback from all manner of stakeholders. So whether that be property owners, developers, we tried to bring in several different departments and divisions within the city and elsewhere, Fayette County Public Schools, fire, police, to really just sort of start to vet out these concept plans that we had worked on. And let's see, does one of these have a, does it have a thing? Maybe, maybe. A pointer? Aha, there we go. So we're here in the refined concept plan phase at the moment, but I'm really going to talk to you all about what we've been doing prior to this. So for those of you that were able to make it, we had a two and a half day design workshop, what I would consider to be a very successful workshop. We presented twice. We had two public presentations. One was in the evening of that Monday evening, April 29th, and then we did the exact same presentation again on April 30th so that we could ensure at lunchtime so that we could ensure different groups of people could make it. The mayor was actually able to come and introduce us for that second presentation. Like I said, we had a lot of stakeholder meetings throughout and we also offered up open studio hours where members of the public and the community could just come and drop by and watch us like we were in a fishbowl happily drawing away. And so over the course of time we had about a little over 130 participants. So that's a good number to come down and talk with us. And then Civic Lex encouraged us to have what they were calling an urban growth fest. And I have to say I was a little bit, I wasn't sure what they meant by that. It just sounded like, you know, a bunch of words strung together. I wasn't sure how it was going to go. But we managed to pull it off, and it was a really popular and successful event. We did it at the Whitaker YMCA and they had done an email blast to all of their users as well. So we ended up having really great attendance. And it was really fun because it was a lot of people that we don't normally see at these events. I do have to say I think that a bounce house and a Kona ice truck and a fire truck helped that greatly. But we also had a lot of community partners there. Police was there, AARP, Lex Tran, we had Parks and Rec, we had just a whole bunch of kind of different community groups that all sort of work in the smart growth realm that were out there. And we had, you know, we presented the same concept plans out there in case anyone had questions and we also, you know, polled folks on some ideas and where they kind of saw the vision heading. So I want to give you all a sort of a little aside on our approach and how we've been thinking about working through these concept plans. So we like to think of these principles of good design and then also how they sort of align with those five tenets from the comprehensive plan, the five principles from the comprehensive plan that we think overlap. So thinking of, you know, what does a mix of use and diversity achieve when we're thinking about creating these concepts? And a lot of it has to do with, you know, having things to do, having that sense of place, that quality of life piece that everyone is after. You know, having walkability and shorter trips, you know, we're hearing that time and time again, all the way back from on the table, they want walkability. Mixed housing. I don't have to tell you all how critical and important we are seeing it that, you know, we mix our housing types that we're thinking about building in the future. that it not all be the same large lot single family that we provide, you know, a whole array of housing types, and whether that is for owners or renters, single people or families, it just helps, you know, we're trying to meet that need, that housing need for the city, but also, you know, make a more interesting community. Density, you know, we like to use the term gentle density. It's a little less scary, but I think it really gets back to the idea that you can fit in a decent amount of density without it feeling overwhelming. And you do that through a lot of the text amendments that planning has already pushed through, which is reducing or eliminating parking minimums, ensuring you have good open space but also ensuring that you can build up a little bit more and just get more buildings, more FAR where you need it to be. Connectivity, I think I mentioned in one of the last times I was up here presenting, one of the biggest lessons that we learned from the last expansion area master plan is that we can't do this again. We can't basically wall off our expansion areas from the idea of future growth. So by ensuring connectivity, you're helping to increase those options, the flexibility and the adaptability over time, which is really important. And it's also gonna be a key for ever getting transit in these places. We included this slide in here. It's kind of disgusting. We talked about this, I don't know, three, four, five years back when you all passed the Stub Street Zota. And it's just the discussion of the sort of conventional suburban network that we saw a lot of in the expansion areas, which includes a lot of cul-de-sac development. It might give the sort of perception of increased safety. You know, a lot of people think about it in terms of privacy, but really what it's doing is, you know, it's hurting you in terms of the amount that you can move around your neighborhood, the opportunities you have to move through your neighborhood. If there is a downed tree right here, then all these people can't get out of this neighborhood. So the idea of moving back towards a grid or what we are calling sort of a modified grid is really what we're after long term. Multimodal transportation. Again, this is kind of going to fall under that big complete streets. policy that we're moving towards. But, you know, it's also sort of shifting that transportation equity piece. And what I think is really important in these areas, you know, we've talked to Lex Tran a lot about how we can eventually get service to these areas. But in the interim, instead of thinking of these initially as transit-oriented development, we might want to think of them as trail-oriented development. So how we can start to use our multi-use trails to establish that initial network of how people can get in and around without having to use their single occupancy vehicle. So I want to give a little bit of sort of an anatomy of this is a little bit of an education piece to what makes up a good neighborhood in some of these cases. So this is Glenwood Park in Atlanta. It's sort of southeast of downtown. And this whole area was a complete brownfield site. There was not a tree to be had out there. You know, it was heavy industrial. And so they came in and they put in a whole neighborhood and they did it based around the central green is a stormwater detention site. and then they started to build their connectivity, so there's small blocks around that, and then included all variety of housing from townhouses, single-family residential, all the way up to apartments and condos. Norton Commons, which many of you are probably familiar with in Louisville, a similar idea. They're really working a lot with gentle density there, So if you've been there, you know, you kind of have a variety of, you're moving from houses to townhouses to apartments to a mix of use in their town center area, which has retail on the ground floor and then offices and housing above that. So you're sort of incorporating it all in one. So I want to, you know, when we're talking about these densities and we're throwing it, we're going to be throwing out some numbers that are, you know, kind of surprising or something we don't see very often here in Lexington. I wanted to give you a little bit of a preface of what these look like in terms of how you visualize what this density looks and feels like. So like we said, this is Norton Commons just outside of Louisville. And it's tracking at, you know, I would say six and a half, probably up to eight, maybe ten in some places, of dwelling units per acre. And they're getting that in terms of they've got single family there, townhouse, apartments, senior housing, even some affordable housing. Then we go to Glenwood Park, like I showed you, and that's at more of a 12 and a half units per acre. I would say they're probably getting that because they're really getting up to some fairly small lots because, you know, that's a little bit more of an urban context. This is another project that we had done in Atlanta called Manchester, and it's all the way up to 15.5 units per acre. It's still, you know, very walkable, but these are, these tend to be closer set townhouses, but the price point is still pretty high up there. The people pay a premium for this community. So let's talk about Lexington and what, you know, what we kind of see around here. So Beaumont Center, which is just adjacent to Area 1, is all the way down at around, you know, 3 to 4 units per acre. And that's really because of the large lot size that most of those houses sit on. Then the sort of Childsburg-Hays Boulevard area, we're starting to get up closer to that 7 units per acre. and that's really thanks to the fact that they've included a lot of multi-family more recently. You know, if it was just a single family, it wouldn't be nearly so high. This is Walnut Creek, which is also sort of in that neighborhood, and they're getting over eight units per acre, and that's because, you know, you can see they're still single-family detached houses, but they're, you know, they're on much smaller lots, and they're much closer together. And then we go to our traditional, to Kenwick. You know, these houses are probably a little bit smaller and closer together, but you see that block size is very walkable. But it doesn't feel, you know, when we're saying eight units per acre, that does not feel overwhelming when you're walking around Kenwick. It doesn't feel like, oh my gosh, I'm in this super dense neighborhood. It just feels like I'm in a nice, pleasant neighborhood. So, we like to, we're laying this out initially, not basing it on our existing zoning, but basing it more on the sort of rural to urban transect, which is what planners use sometimes to start to think about like, what is the feel of each of these places that we want to work with. So we're really trying to hit in that like T3, more like T4, T5 area that's in there, So that's kind of going from your suburban to a little bit more of an urban zone, but not all the way up to a downtown feel. So here's the good stuff, the initial concepts. So what you'll see in these is we're kind of starting to provide the general, the initial recommendations for some potential land uses and tying that to sort of the intended densities, really laying out this street network in terms of thinking about our, you know, we first set out with our non-buildable areas. So those are our sinkholes, floodplains, et cetera, and then how we move the street network in and around those and also use those as amenities, how we include open space around that and then from there how we build this sort of modified grid around that. So area one, as a reminder, this is Parker's Mill and Manowar. This is the smallest of the five areas. It totals around a little over 150, 160 acres. Right now it's being used as pasture land, horses mostly. The one challenge or one of the biggest challenges to this site is there's quite a lot of what we call karst features. You all see that on your development plans a lot. So it's the potential for sinkholes in this area that is more high than in some of the other areas. We also have some functional concerns along Parker's Mill. Like we said, the crash data showed kind of a surprising number of crashes along Parker's Mill, but if you've driven that section, you also know that it's narrow and windy and there's lots of stuff to look at and people don't drive the best out there. So, you know, that's a concern, but we know that there's also talk of improving that road in general just with the Cardinal Run North new park that's coming online. This is probably our best area to connect into a very functional trail system that already exists within that Beaumont neighborhood. So that's exciting. And the only place that's maybe a little bit tricky is we have right here is the Pine Needles entry into the Heritage Place HOA. And so, you know, needing to work with them in the future on how you get access points. Because we will be very limited through KYTC on how many access points and how many of those can be signalized basically coming up to this corner. Because we get very close to an already signalized corner. So we have to think about where we can get access. So when we look at these, the graphic came out a little bit funny, not sure why. So some of the things that are really important to us, there is one existing road connection right here that is stubbed out. So we're using that opportunity to connect into the neighborhood. but as a minor neighborhood road connection. The idea is not to push the sort of main boulevard entry in through an existing residential neighborhood, but just to provide an additional outlet. This area up here along Manowar, we felt like was a really good space visibility-wise as well for the first of what we're calling our neighborhood hubs or village centers, whatever town centers, whatever you would like to call them. And it's also the area that's sort of the least impacted by the karst features. We have a lot of opportunity here for including green space and amenitizing that because of those karst features. So it's really a matter of how we start to weave in these future neighborhoods and the residential around that. Moving on to Area 2, which is the Winchester Road, Hume Road area. This is the largest of our five areas. We have the existing single-family neighborhood along Hume Road. And that's really the only place where that happens, where we have sort of a whole neighborhood that is included in that future expansion. We also are challenged here by several streams and floodplains. So we have a bunch of streams that are crossing across this. Now that being said, this is also probably our most likely opportunity for transit in the near term. Because transit already serves the area along Sir Barton and, you know, we think that with the hospital coming online and all of the development there along Polo Club, that it's most likely that more transit will run along that area. Again, we have some concerns about how many and where our access points would be along Winchester Road. So those are, you know, things that we need to work through. One thing that we felt pretty strongly about was the idea of sort of trying to protect that Hume Road neighborhood that's there and the idea of doing that by pushing by pushing our sort of main boulevard out and around the that Hume Road neighborhood and that also will help to to sort of energize those back pieces of land that are sort of far off of Winchester Road. In this area we think that there's the opportunity for probably two or even three neighborhood hubs. One thing I didn't mention the first time around, but these numbers down here are tied to the sort of colors that you're seeing on the map. So the red is that, the red X is sort of that neighborhood hub, and we're looking at all the way up to 30 plus dwelling units per acre. So that's fairly dense, but that's more of putting apartments right up, you know, in with your neighborhood hub. And that goes all the way down to the lighter yellow, which is the lowest that we're showing really is eight to nine dwelling units per acre across the board. And we think that that is going to be important to get transit and also important to fulfill those housing needs that the city has and make these developments more walkable and have more gentle density than our traditional suburban developments that we've seen in the past. So even in this area alone, with those densities that we're showing here, that puts us anywhere from 9,000 to 14,000 new housing units, which, you know, if we take a step back and think about that, anywhere else in Kentucky, that is the size of not even just a small town, but an actual town. So these areas are huge when we look at them. We have to kind of keep that in mind. It's not just that we're continuing on neighborhoods. We're building whole new towns, essentially. Okay, area three, and this is 8th and Spoonsboro, otherwise known as the beak or the nose, is, you know, mostly at this point crop and farm uses. We have a little bit of land set aside here for Brenda Cowan and then the back of Edith Hayes Middle. For the most part, this area is pretty, you know, fairly flat. There's a little bit of topography as you get up close to I-75. We have a few streams, floodplains, and ponds out here to, I don't want to even say contend with, because it's more like to work around and to incorporate. Our biggest concern here is that there is not a single opportunity along this whole edge to break this line and get a street through at all. So that means that all of the connections and all of the roadways and all of the circulation have to move in and around the site, all going in and off of Athens-Spoonsboro. So that is a challenge. Again, we think that this area could maybe incorporate up to four possible neighborhood centers, which is a lot. again, another 7,000 to 11,000 household units. We have some sort of like long-term pie-in-the-sky visions of, you know, potentially connecting over or under I-75. You know, those are obviously very long-term, very expensive, but, you know, we felt like we needed to show them because of the sort of lack of connectivity that's happening to the West. The little bit of dashed lines that you're seeing that do connect into the Childsburg neighborhood, those are places where we think we could get maybe a trail easement. So one of the advantages that we have to this site is finally you could have kids being able to walk to Brenda Cowen where none of them can today. So that would be a unique and hopefully wonderful situation. Cane Break, this is, we're kind of turning ourselves to the side here. North is off to the left. So Cane Break is sort of this curvy road that's along the edge here and it dead ends into, you know, into some housing. And the reason that this piece, that you all brought this piece in when we initially talked about it was the potential to connect Todd's Road to Athens Boonesboro to have another relief valve in terms of connections so we're not putting all of that traffic onto Hays for people to be able to connect from one place to another. For the most part, the area along Todd's Road is mostly agricultural land and then the rest of the 10 acres, the rest of Canebrake are mostly these larger 10 acre lots currently. This area has a lot of steep slopes to work around, so there is sort of a limitation on how much we can develop along here. But we think that this is maybe the one area too where we have some potential to have blue sky adjacent uses. So again, this is, you know, we're showing these pie in the sky connections from area three to area four over and under the highway, which, you know, have some nice natural connectivity, especially when you think about, you know, how people are moving for transit or for schools or for jobs. We, and like I said, I think that there's maybe some opportunity up towards the end, towards blue sky to start thinking about, you know, maybe a tiny bit of light industrial use for this area. Last but not least, Area 5. And then this is the sort of total acres of about 514, and then that's like plus the additional seven. So remember we had talked about that little corner over here that kind of got left out by accident. So we're, you know, incorporating that into how we plan. And then the idea just that that blue sky industrial area is, will be looked at in a future small area plan. But obviously there are concerns about, you know, Athens Boonesboro, how we incorporate the R cuts that they're doing out there, and access along there. You know, there's a lot of, there's been a lot of development lately in terms of, you know, the area around the soccer club and even the area around the old hotel site over here. If you've been out there lately, I would say there's like 50 to 60 feet tall fill that they've been stockpiling out there. So, you know, there's very little undisturbed land in this section. Now this is the farthest that we get from really any sort of transit or trails. So this is, you know, this is going to be a challenge. But hopefully, you know, by making these things a place where people want to go, we can start to spur that on. Again, this is, this area is really pushing, we have the opportunity here to get quite a bit of density. And that's, you know, that's just because we've got the area around the soccer fields, which we think if we can encourage them to be able to include residential use now, which would only occur through the inclusion and the expansion area, that they would be amenable to that and to make that more of a district feel. So I kind of want to point you in the direction that we're moving in. This is just an example from work that we've done elsewhere. I think this is Tulsa. But I want to show you what these refined concepts will end up looking like. So it'll start to show you the street network, which we're hoping, you know, that it's the infrastructure pieces that we really want to be able to lay down so the developers can work with and around those a little bit more. But it also helps us get an idea of sort of what the infrastructure costs will be in how these expansion areas could get developed. We start to show maybe how some buildings and land uses could fit in there, but really the idea is that these blocks are fairly standardized in terms of their sizing. So the idea is you could fit townhouses to multifamily to retail, and they're sort of interchangeable, but we're just giving an example. More importantly, we'll be placing the open space and the vegetation, and a lot of that has to do, and the stormwater, a lot of that has to do with just natural features, like where our topography is, where our existing floodplains are, and those things are going to, they'll kind of stay where they're at. So developers in the future will need to mostly work around those. So this isn't colored up yet, but this kind of gives you an idea. This is the area right off of, let's see, this is Winchester Road, where Polo Club kind of dead ends into it, and the idea of a potential town center out there. And so we start to ensure that we can get things out there, like what's the standard size of a grocery store? Not saying that we'd put a grocery store out there, but like we want to make sure that that could be accommodated. What's the standard size of a fire station, of a school? Really just making sure that we put in that civic infrastructure piece of it so that we know that we can get it and these things actually become, you know, town centers unto themselves. And then, of course, laying out, you know, our big open space moves, our wetland area, or not wetland, our stormwater areas. The red dash line is a five-minute walk. So when you look at it, you can start to see, too, just how many houses and neighbors can access this town center within that five-minute walk. And that's why it's so important to get at this sort of density that we're looking at. So, this last little bit, I'll run through it pretty fast, is talking about the types of housing that we might see that might be appropriate for these expansion areas. Because I'm talking a lot about like, what does general density look like? So we're really pushing the idea of this single family small lot. So we have a ton of single family large lot, our one that's here in Lexington, but we're We're really seeing much more of a demand for these single family small lots. Townhouses, obviously. Garden style apartments, but really pushing for the idea of it to be more of a shared courtyard instead of the garden style I think that we've seen in the past, which is random building, random building, random building, but these to be more of an urban style garden apartment. Courts. This is a type of, you know, what we call missing middle. I'm sure Chris can fill you in on his love of cottage courts that he wants to push, but these are a great way for, especially for people to age in place or as starter homes, and we're using them pretty consistently throughout the southeast. Accessory dwelling units. I don't need to tell you all the importance of these and how they can really begin to up your density when And you incorporate them straight off the bat as you're building new houses. And then all the way up to duplexes, quads, multiplexes, etc. And these all sound a little bit scary, but then if we think about what we see in Ashland, we have all these out there. And again, these are just examples and visuals of what these things look like. You know, when we say a multiplex or a sixplex, it sounds very daunting until you see the example of what one could look like. All different kinds of single family. And, you know, what I find interesting here is we can get a lot. So everything to the left except for this far end example here are all served by an alley. We use alleys a lot in our designs just because it helps us to push that dental density and push that walkability. You're not using up as much of the width of your lot, so you can do more skinny lots and park from the rear. So you're not giving up the parking. And so that's why you can see how skinny each of those is until you get up to the typical Lexington lot. Townhouses, obviously all variety and manner of how you park under or park detached in townhouses. And then like we were talking about the missing middle. So, you know, I kind of want to, this is a really good picture, a really good example from Norton Commons where we're showing what a place that is using that gentle density and really thinking thoughtfully about how you lay out housing and lay out streets looks like and how much denser it can be than your very traditional suburban sprawling cul-de-sac development. So those are, you know, it's sort of a mind shift for us in how we're going to use this bit of land so that in theory we can, you know, put off the idea of, you know, of having to expand elsewhere if we use this smartly. So again, our project goals are really to protect the environment first and foremost, to really get back to a grid system, and then to start planning these neighborhoods and providing housing options that make them feel like a place instead of just more sprawl. So hopefully that was a good rundown of where we're sort of at at the moment, but I would love to take any questions. Thank you. Any questions? Thank you, Sam. That's great work. So environmentally, the greenest house or building is usually one that's already built. Will there be any consideration for maybe homes that are older or perhaps on the National Register to say, like, that's probably worthy of preservation within whatever may occur? Do you mean existing homes that are in the expansion areas? That are within the areas we're looking at, yes. Oh, yes. There, honestly, there are not a ton of them. No. They're mostly, you know, we've got some farmhouses and, you know, a few buildings like that. But, yeah, I think the idea that, you know, that you could incorporate existing houses out there is, you know, it's always something that we want to push for. It's sort of why that Hume Road, especially that neighborhood, the thought being, you know, to just kind of work around it as much as we can. Okay, thanks. Yeah. This might be a stupid question, but where there are problems with connectivity, but there are some really obvious places where it could happen were there not a single family residence in the way, which appears to be the case in several locations, particularly around the Hayes Boulevard area. Why couldn't the city have a program where they could offer to purchase first right of refusal on a property that could be demolished to make way for connection i'm gonna let jim and chris answer that one well mr poe we we do have that in fact we have it in that same neighborhood where there's some properties uh legacy properties before the expansion that are adjacent to jacobson park and the city has been given the option of purchasing those. And I think we've maybe bought one, but we've passed on others. So it kind of depends on the financial situation and the view at that moment that the city needs for connection into something like that. So that model does exist. But when you're talking about connecting from Charlesburg into the Nose, that's a different story altogether. That's very much a planned neighborhood with its systems in place, and I think that would be extraordinary to think that you could purchase a house on the top of a cul-de-sac with the expectation that there would be a vehicular connection into that neighborhood. Maybe some opportunities for bike and ped, of course, and we'll look at those, but vehicular connections are going to be a real challenge into Childsburg. Mr. Paul, I think there's one other factor. Sam, I don't know if you can go back to that slide for particularly the area around the nose. A lot of the street designs and street geometrics approved for the 96 expansion on the local streets were pretty narrow by design for walkability purposes and things like that. We were experimenting with some new street geometrics. And there's not collector streets around that perimeter. what we have there are very narrow local streets with limited with a what they're already restricted to parking on one side and there's nothing wrong with that but but that was what the plan called for and so any vehicular connection that even if we could punch through from a property acquisition standpoint we look at a situation where any any volume of traffic would be on some very narrow local streets until maybe two or three of them before we could even get back out to the boulevard and i just i we're pretty uncomfortable making that sort of a key recommendation for connectivity in this master plan if that were something that they were able to happen i think we'd be open to exploring it but any projection of of a significant volume of traffic on some of those near traditional street designs that we created back in 96 we think could could prove problematic for for a number of folks. But we have definitely explored it and discussed it. Thank you. I've got a couple questions. I'll start with the one that is on the map. I'm just not familiar with this. Does Fayette County currently have a vehicular connection between Edith Hayes and Brendan Cowan on their own property? No. No, when we talked to the Fay County Public Schools, they sort of that, this kind of triangle that's in the back here of Hayes Middle isn't even, it's just sort of left for future expansion. It's kind of a weird no man's land, I would say. And I guess the obvious question would be, I guess, is there a possibility of discussion with Fayette County Public Schools for either a land swap or some sort of agreement for a connection? We talked about it a little bit and we looked at it. And again, to Chris's point, our biggest challenge is that by providing just one connection It would dump a lot of traffic onto what is really a very small neighborhood road. So without much potential for sort of expanding that road enough to not really disrupt a whole neighborhood. I see what you're saying. We don't really have a street. At this scale, it's difficult to see. but where where that there was proposed actually goes into sort of a parking lot access even to area that the school has the could begin a connection their opening to a local street there is is very constrained so we we didn't with uh... dinner pickup part of school board as well as some of their staff you know entertain the idea of some sort of connections uh... to facilitate that including what you see is that main road thoroughfare sort of bisecting the two pieces to try to get some additional access there thank you in looking back at the expansion area master plan for the last expansion it had some drawings with some similarities for the community centers it proposed along with uh... community centers owning that came on board with the last master plan. In the areas where that zoning's been applied, those developments don't look like the concept phase of that plan either. Where are, where do you think some of the shortcomings were to that implementation and how do you think that your town center concept would get a, would result with better implementation than the community center concept? I think that's a great question. I think that, and Chris might have a follow-up opinion to this, what I'm most interested and or concerned moving into that sort of stick piece of this that's coming up is putting more teeth within our current zoning instead of, I think that there was, that maybe the idea of having those separate expansion area zones that are different from our regular zones didn't work as well as I think was expected. And so I think that we'll have, it'll be more powerful to be able to apply our current zoning to these areas, but then also with a bit of a design eye to it. And so we're still trying to figure out how that works out, but the idea being of what does the form look and feel like so that these areas remain neighborhood hubs instead of becoming Costco. But yes, I completely understand. And I can't speak to what sort of engagement was done in 96. I wasn't here, but I can tell you that the consultant team and staff are having a lot of meetings with the people who control these properties to talk about these concepts and these densities and these mixes. And we're trying to make the case for it from an economic standpoint. We're trying to, from doing the market analysis piece of this master plan, again, that was not a component of the 96 plan. There's a case to be made economically for these types of land uses that we're trying to bring them along with to get their opinions on they're giving us feedback on it i think it's very it would be foolish for us to develop this this plan these densities in these land uses without bringing the property owners along and they have been engaged including going to sites that the concerns about other cities uh... to see some of these types of products it's fair to say some of this makes them a little nervous because they haven't done it or done it here but they've been open to it and we've been getting really good feedback and dialogue with them on it So I think as much as we can continue to engage the likely developers and property owners of these properties, you may see some of these evolve over time as a reflection of some of that, but so far I would say we're looking to sort of build some early coalitions on these types of things instead of having what happened with the CC zone happen in the past. And then I think there's one other piece is that we may have not done a great job predicting what the market pressure for something like the Costco area would be around the interchange at Manowar and the interstate. And if you look at the areas on this plan, we're trying to be really cognizant of the fact that we know there's significant commercial demand right around the interstate and to not try to ignore that so that we don't end up in a situation where some of that market pressure can't be met for those types of uses, but then still have some of the things we need, like the housing and sort of a district of entertainment around the soccer stadium, if that makes sense. Well, I think all that does make sense. The only thought that comes to mind is when we've heard some of the things that I've been here for that we hear, particularly with commercial as opposed to residential, is that the end user, whether it's Costco or Wawa, or is driving a lot of the design of these commercial spaces that ended up in the CC zone. And so while I think getting the local landowners on board makes a lot of sense, I do wonder once it gets further down the road and they have that offer from a national commercial user with certain template they're looking to impose, that's where it seems like it's easy for our comprehensive plan intentions to get derailed. In terms of the comprehensive plan intentions, though, I want to just, I guess, ask, we heard a lot about residential density and we heard broadly about, you know, preserving the environment and sort of enhancing the non-buildable spaces. But in terms of green space inside the actual built-up areas, it seems like there's a little bit of an equation that we kind of saw in the aerial views of some of those neighborhoods that you chose in terms of when the, in those selections that you made, when the density increased, there ceased to be visible parking lots or ceased to be visible car storage. And so I know you said parking is something you're looking at in the next phase, but has, has been the discussions on density as it relates to the car storage or parking and things like that? Yeah, and we, you know, we're very cognizant of, you know, the sort of cost, you know, this is, this area three is a good example of, well, I'm, you know, always a big fan of structured parking, you know, there's a cost associated with that. So the idea being that in a lot of these designs you'll see, you know, the multi-family is a good example. What you see is sort of the block size of a multi-family that is either wrapped around surface parking or wrapped around structured parking. And it could go either way depending on what the market is saying at that moment, but it gives the flexibility. I think that there is, you know, it's really important to note that what we're not getting to, what you can't see on here yet is sort of our street hierarchies that we're putting throughout here. And I think pretty much across the board, all of our streets have on-street parking. So the idea of these walkable communities with more on-street parking rather than, you know, separate parking lots is also really important. We have our, the piece that you're not really seeing baked in fully to this yet. We have our sustainability consultant on board. They're from South Face Institute in Atlanta. And they're going to provide us with a whole lot of recommendations that I'm not sure we're fully prepared to, we developers and the community are fully prepared to implement yet, but that are really pushing the envelope on how we deal with storm water and storm water capture, you know, the use of green roofs and solar, small solar, all those things that are hopefully going to, I would say, up the green sustainability factor in each of these areas. But in terms of going back to the idea of parking, yes, the more walkable that we can make these neighborhoods and the more you know TOD whether it's trail oriented or transit oriented you know the less people need need their cars but obviously the idea being so you know Lexington is still a very car oriented city more than you know probably a place like I would say like Atlanta but Atlanta is still very car oriented so you know I think I think baked in there but you know we're not putting nearly as much of a emphasis on trying to maximize parking. You know we're taking the cue from from you all and your removal of parking minimums. And then the last question I have written down has to do with your all sort of concept of the the street network and obviously working with a very, in areas that have a lot of constraints. And in these examples that you show, you're creating these sort of interior neighborhood grids and then the collector streets. And then the other thing that is sort of visible in these sort of concept sketches is you're sort of showing these neighborhood streets bordering these greenways and things like that. Is there, as you move forward, are you envisioning, how are you envisioning sort of bringing those details out in the next phase? Are you envisioning sort of like a block length guideline or sort of like with the parks, a minimum street frontage along the greenways? I guess how are those sort of like concepts, how could you sort of progress those concepts? Yeah, and I think that that's sort of all where, you know, once we have these concept master plans laid out and we start to see, you know, what are our priorities in terms of what do we really want to figure out how to regulate? You know, for me it is sort of the block length idea and then you can kind of start to see it here along the edge. This is one of our floodplains and then this kind of wider street that we're showing here, it would be a boulevard that runs along the edge of it. So how, you know, single frontage along some of these green spaces to really amenitize them, keep eyes on them, you know, in terms of, we're also working with Division of Environmental services as they do their greenway management plan that they're working on. So working with that consultant on figuring out how to incorporate their greenway pieces into what we're doing. But I think that that is, you know, that's our next steps of what we're talking about, of how to continue to ensure these, like, good urban design principles get put down somehow in the regulations because they're not necessarily in our regulations today and maybe as strict a way as I think we'd like to see in these expansion areas. Thank you very much, Sam. Well, first of all, thank you for the report. I've enjoyed these updates as we go along. I think it's been very helpful. You mentioned the fact that there were lots of stakeholders contacted, and I was curious, did you get a stakeholder from the health department? Ooh, that's a good one. And the reason I'm asking that particular question is I am all for density and what have you. And the reason, well, up until when COVID hit, we found out the density then acted against us. And the question then becomes, is the health department be consulted with that? Maybe they had some ideas about where they could get a health center as a part of that, which leads to another question, but I'll let you go to that one first. Also, was the Lexington Public Libraries a part of the stakeholders? Yes. Yeah, they were, we consulted with them back when we were looking at the sort of cost burden analysis and seeing how they determine where, you know, where they put new libraries and where those would exist. And, you know, kind of similar to what we did with fire and police, you know, asking them, like, is this an area that you would potentially want to see, see some growth. So, yes, we have talked to the library as well. And again, no one, do you remember anyone from the health department? No, now that you've asked, that is, I think, one, that's a good idea of a group we can reach out to. The other question, just from my edification, when you identify these major stakeholders, and like you said, they come in with their analysis about what's what, But do we have priorities set aside in terms of how that land is to be? I mean, do they get a sort of a choice, first choice as to where they want to put a fire station or where they want to put a grocery store? Or is that? Well, it's a little bit, you know, I think that we are trying to do a sort of whole shift in how we are looking at these, how we're using the land in these areas, to use it smarter than maybe we've typically done it in the past. In the past, I would say that across the board, all of those organizations would say that they kind of get whatever's left over, whether that's in floodplains or the sort of pieces that are at the very edges of the properties. So in our case, we like to sort of push it in and bake it into the initial concept so that you start thinking, so once you start putting out there, it's like putting it out into the environment about just saying, well, we could really build this town center around a library or around a school, and people start seeing fire station or start seeing grocery or child care or whatever. The more you put it out there, the more it's a little bit self-fulfilling. And so we're trying to, in some ways, help out some of these civic groups to at least get them on the map ahead of time. But then, of course, still, this is all privately owned land. So it's a matter of working with the developers and then trying to help figure out the infrastructure and the incentive package to allow them to make that pencil, which is tricky obviously. Okay. Thank you. Well, this is not a question as much as a general comment because a lot of this stuff started as a result of what we call affordable housing. And I don't know where the discussions have gone. I see that you have housing options up there. And I understand that private land, that's something that has to be considered. But I know too that we've talked about incentives for developers and things like that. I'm still pushing to try to get that information out as quick as possible so that that can be a part of the so-called full comprehensive discussion because I'm seeing us build all kinds of things and no one is going toward that affordable housing in the sense that we're federally defined as affordable housing and such. But thank you again for your answers. i'm wondering if the urban county council determined that we have a goal of being net zero having net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050 and i'm wondering if anyone is assessing the implications of these developments with regard to greenhouse gas emissions and developing strategies to ensure that the effect of these developments is ultimately net zero? Yes, that is definitely what our sustainability consultant has been brought on board for. And he's met with our building code folks and I think a lot of environmental services and sustainability. And so I think a lot of what will come out of his report will be based on the fact that we really need to up a lot of our standards to be able to meet that in any sort of new development. But it will lay out the kind of steps that you would need to take to get there if we're really wanting to try to hit that mark. So the idea is we'll lay it out, but I think it'll be up to the city then to pick it up and continue on and ensure that that actually happens. Snicker, snicker. um i'd really like to see a very serious take on this and not snicker but i think that would require looking at the emissions issues of building roads of moving earth of paving areas that's that's an enormous uh issue entirely aside from the efficiency of buildings and i think that should be considered in whatever equation is looked at with regard to the effect of these new developments on greenhouse gas emissions i agree Samantha two three years ago when you were here do you remember short agendas long discussions on relatively short agenda items thanks for being here I've got two three questions and then a couple of comments I'll try and go in order as what I saw you mentioned two and a half-day work sessions, urban growth fest and so forth. I saw something last week, two weeks ago, or something that identified, I don't want to point to a council member, but it was like, come see and discuss and give us your thoughts as to what area one's gonna look like. Was that for all areas or was that individualized? We're working through the council aides their staff of the covers and their staff if they would like us to come out to district meetings and constituent meetings we've been setting those up we had one last week you know earlier this week you know for i think it was three council districts in one and so they were obviously focused more on one particular of the five areas but that's generally what we've been doing working with them and they identified groups that are interested neighborhoods that are interested we go out and meet with them obviously we're within a certain budget with the consultants for hours of public meetings so basically everything that's not contracted through the consultants planning staff is going you all that's correct and in this particular case this was all hal for a while for for three council districts worth of constituents yes so if they want to all five areas being included okay and we're also going out into the community we're basically taking any public event that's going on and taking our tent and our table and the plans and going and and talking about this at a number of places, so to mixed success, but we're doing it. Okay. Samantha, you mentioned Parkersville Road, widening, possible expansion and so forth. You know, what I call the outer part, the undeveloped part, should be fairly easy as you get the lanes in going towards Versailles Road. Is there any thoughts on how that's going to look? That's a little bit out of my scope. And actually the discussion of the improvements to Parker's Mill are even separate from the expansion area. This is being brought on by the new park. So we're just thinking about including it. Similar to the R cuts along Evans Boonsboro and Richmond Road, we're just figuring out how to incorporate those. I think that in terms of, you know, engineering and District 7, they're, you know, they won't actually start to really look at how they would, you know, make major improvements along here until we have, you know, development plans in hand, until things get a little more serious. So our discussions with them are more, a little more esoteric in terms of access points and, you know, where intersections could be and things like that. So, well, you know, obviously, and I can, I don't even know if that's just a county road or not, but, you know, you made reference a moment ago to one of the questions in, I'm going to say it another way. It seems like in the past, a lot of what we've seen come to us has been more reactive as opposed to being on the front end. I applaud you for trying to keep things on the front end as much as possible. And I'm sure that's not easy. Infrastructure, infrastructure costs. What's the thoughts on that? We, you all had had Partners for Economic Solutions present to you all, I don't know, a couple months ago. And so in the interim, they have been sort of creating a toolbox, I would say, to provide planning of some options for all these different mechanisms that you could use to pay for infrastructure. And now planning is sort of vetting that internally to see what we can actually do here in Lexington, also here in the state. Our hands are tied on a lot of opportunities that other states might use. So we're very much looking into that. But I think that the reality is probably that conversation will continue beyond, you know, when our contract is sort of up in October. The planning staff is spending a lot of time on that question right now. We're working on it. And we expect to have something to start that conversation with you all at a minimum by your work session in June. But like I said, we're getting some of the information from the subconsultant on this. Our staff is doing some of our own research, and we're starting to vet some of these options and things like that. And other components that will come will be estimates on some of the costs, again, for certain key pieces of infrastructure. So we're hopeful to start engaging with you all on that very shortly, but we've got to make sure we're prepared to do so very, very soon. I think probably most of my other ones are more comments than questions, but you were talking about open space, green space. You said something about single and loaded streets a moment ago, which I applaud very much. You had a picture of, I don't know where it is now, of a cottage court view that showed kind of like that, your green space in the middle of everything, you know, but almost a yard just for many houses. And I'll say it again, I've been in development outside of Nashville and Franklin, Tennessee, and they highlighted those areas. And if you do that, you give open green space to many houses and you can reduce the backyard. And really and truly, it seemed like the children loved communing and playing in those areas as opposed to being confined to their backyard to tell you the truth but uh you know i think those are good areas uh good good things to focus on um uh alleyway the alleys that you mentioned i'm glad you said alleys because i was trying to come up with a name for it uh that i think is a good idea as well the initial cost maybe more simply because you got another road but you know i really think it will pay for itself you know on down the road and in returns and so forth from what i've seen the only one i know of mr murphy would know about it would be townley center to tell you the truth that has some back alleys i shouldn't say back alleys because that's that's a negative common content to to me but i think i think it's a very good way to do it much by the same token front utilizing you can't do it but for utilizing front porches encouraging front porches and it you know i it just just a sense of place because people will start sitting out there people will start decorating them and and just just you know i think it increases the ability livability so much more but it's nice to see you and uh... appreciate this presentation i'm curious um... about the uh... your your workshops and i'm and i'm glad to hear that there's outreach to various councils on to various uh... you know neighborhoods with each of you know you know, each expansion area being talked about by the people who are, you know, gonna potentially be affected. And I'm wondering if you're prepping them or setting the stage for the density in these expansion areas that you're talking about. Because I think that the more they hear it and the more they hear the rationale for it, I'm hoping that in the long term it's going to be better received. Yeah, I completely agree and I think that's why it was important to sort of roll out the sort of amorphous frameworks before you start to get to this level of detail which might scare some people. We're trying to be very conscious of how we're interacting with adjacent neighbors of which there are kind of few other than an area one, other than, you know, some farms. Because most of the areas that were picked are a little bit locked in relative to big roads. You know, obviously Childsburg too is, you know, another big neighborhood. But yeah, I think the idea is that, you know, we need to, we're kind of moving quickly through this framework to concept stage also because, you know, people have seen the frameworks now and they're getting a little bit anxious and we want to be able to then come back with the concepts and allay some of those fears about, you know, what could a road potentially connecting into my neighborhood, like what sort of traffic does that look like? And I'm hoping that when they see that it's just a continuation of, you know, a small neighborhood road and it's not, you know, one of the larger boulevards that we're showing, that sort of helps to set the stage. And also, you know, in some ways, help people to start thinking about, oh, wait, could I actually start walking to a coffee shop or to the gym or to whatever that is in this neighborhood center that's now going to be walkable to my community? Like, that would be great because I don't have that in the place that I live. So, yeah, I think that those are all, that's all really important to us. And again, you know, I think Chris talked about it a lot, but we're here, you know, long range is here, planning's here to meet with anybody that is interested. We've got a lot, we've gotten a lot of traffic on the website, lots of hits, lots of comments. And so, you know, we're really just taking feedback and trying to answer people's questions. This process we wanted to be very transparent. That's super important to us that, you know, people understand how we got from A to Z. We're not trying to do this behind closed doors. Sam, this has been going up on the website internet. the information is still what you're showing today is up there i think it might be up there already close yeah okay what what is that website once again it's urban growth flex.com okay thank you matt thank you for again for your time and uh if we don't have any other questions i would just want to say you have a good weekend happy memorial day keep working thank you all thank you mr duncan thank you mr chair and thank you all for your flexibility in holding the work session today so that we could accommodate this in information but that doesn't get us off the hook for next week either even though it's not on your agenda we do have a scheduled planning commission work session on thursday may 30th at 1 30. we'll be in the phoenix building third floor so we hope you all can attend. Wish you all a good Memorial Day holiday. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Duncan. That being said this meeting is adjourned. . Empties, knocks me to my knees, cause I'm smoking baby, baby, the way you sweat, cause it really wrecks my nuts, and I'm so excited, Tom.