Music so I'm sorry. Good afternoon. I would like to recommend you to the July 17 meeting of the Board of Architectural Review. We appreciate those of you who are in attendance today. The board was established by zoning ordinance in 1958. Our first historic district was Grants Park. And we now have a total of 15, am I on? You are on. Sir, gentlemen. You can lean in. I can lean in. And we now have a total of 15 historic districts. Your attention is appreciated. The board, which is appointed by the mayor and confirmed by the Urban County Council, is a part of the Division of Historic Preservation. The Stark Preservation Office maintains a full-time staff to assist you with your project. The board encourages and recommends that applicants use them as a resource. The Stark Preservation Office is located at 101 East Vine Street, room 220. It is our procedure to consider each application in order in which they are listed on our agenda. In each case, we'll have a presentation by the staff and we'll hear any additional comments from the applicant. The board will then ask questions or make comments regarding the application, And then hear comments from any other interested parties. The chair will then ask the board members to enter a motion. If you wish to address the board, please come to the microphone and state your name and address for the record. We also let you write your name on the sign in sheet by the door so that the information can be recorded correctly. I would like to note the following staff approvals before we begin our review of the applications. There are certain items the staff can approve, eliminating necessity for all applicants to appear before the board. There are a total of 31 approved applications noted on today's agenda. They are as follows. In the Ashland Historic District, 317 Deshay Avenue, rebuild the rare deck. At 100 South Hanover Avenue, renovate the structure. At 293 South Ashland Avenue, renovate damaging holly tree. In the Ellsford Historic District, at 638 Central Avenue, renovate the structure. At 276 Clay Avenue, construct patio and basketball court. At 361 Linden Walk, remove dying and damaged trees. At 330 Park Avenue, refresh gravel in the driveway. At 335 Transylvania Park, renovate the structure. At 372 Transylvania Park, renovate the structure. At 208 in the Belcourt Historic District. At 208 East Belcourt, renovate the structure. At 211 East Belcourt, replace fencing. At 223 East Belcourt, remove dead pen oak tree. At 155 West Belcourt, renovate structure and site. At 531 Boonsboro Avenue, renovate the structure. At 605 Boonsboro Avenue, renovate the structure and renovate the front porch. At 152 Forest Avenue, replace the back door. At 631 East Main Street, change the proposed canopy. At 519 Russell Avenue, renew the COA to install fencing. In the Constitution Street Historic District, at 151 East 3rd Street, renovate the structure. At 159 East 3rd Street, renovate the structure. At 155 East 3rd Street, renovate the structure. In the Fayette Park Historic District, at 425 Fayette Park, Tuff Point, the structure. And at 432 Fayette Park, renovate the structure. In the north side historic district at 448 North Broadway, renovate the COA for the rebuilding of the structure. At 555 North Broadway, construct the radios. At 624 North Broadway, repave rear parking area. At 628 North Broadway, renovate the structure and repave the rear parking area. At 405 West 3rd Street, renovate the structure. In the Pensacola Historic District, at 126 Wabash, renovate the front porch. At the Seven Parks Historic District, at 133 Shawnee Place, renovate the structure. At 124 South Ashland Avenue, renovate the structure. In the South Hill Historic District, at 412 South Mill Street, replace the deteriorated and broken windows. In the Western Suburbs Historic District, at 400 West Short Street, replace the replacement windows. at 582 west short renovate the structure at 730 west short street renovate the structure and prepare for painting and finally in the woodford historic district at 348 merino street renovate the structure we will now take the applications pending before us the first one being at 463 east maxwell street the scope of work is reinstall the retain install vinyl railing system. We have a request to postpone that. The waiver has been signed. Do I have a motion to postpone this application to August 21st, 2024? So moved. Do I have a second? Second. Without objection, this matter is postponed until August 21st, 2024. Turning now to our next application. at 657 Ellesmere Park. Do we have the applicant here, please? Come on up. Yes. State your name for the record, please. My name is George Burke. Mr. Burke. The scope of work is to construct a covered screen porch and open porch with ramp. I believe the staff has recommended approval of your application. Yes, sir. Can you hear me all right? I can. Okay, all right. The sound system here is easy. Yes, the staff has recommended approval of your application. They have what we call the standard conditions. Let me read them to you. Once reviewed by the other city divisions, resubmit any changes to staff or board for review and approval prior to start of work or in agreement? Yes. The second one being, if any changes are made that alter the information that's submitted, resubmit the changes to staff for review and approval prior to start of work, or in agreement. Yes. All right, are there any questions or comments about this application from the board? Any questions or comments from the audience? Chair is ready for a motion. Chair, with regard to case number 06510657-M, at 657 Ellesmere Park, I move that the condition of appropriateness, certificate of appropriateness be approved as documented with the two standard provisions. All right, do I have a second? Second. Any discussion of the motion? There being none of the Chair calls for the question. All those in favor of the motion say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Motion passes and the COA is approved. Mr. Mayor, did you abstain? Okay, all right. Thank you. Thank you very much. Turning now to our fourth application at 438 West 2nd Street in the Northside Historic District. Scope of work is, am I on the right one? No, I'm jumped ahead of me. Turning now to 439 Fayette Park. Construct front steps, sidewalk, stairs, and knee walls. Install stone edging is the scope of work. Chair. Yes. Well, before I call the tape, I know that there's a staff disapproval. If you don't mind, I will move forward with the other applications and pick this one up for hearing at the end if that's all right with you all okay all right going to the next one at 438 West 2nd Street at the north side historic district scope of work is removed deck is the applicant here the applicant is not here but it's received a copy of her staff report. Okay, I'll note for the record that the staff has recommended approval of this application subject to the standard two conditions. I believe we can move forward on this one. I'll read them into the record. Once reviewed by the other city divisions, resubmit any changes to staff or board for review and approval prior to start of work. And secondly, if any changes are made that alter the information submitted, resubmit the changes of staff for review and approval prior to start of work is there any discussion on this application any comments from the board any comments from the audience if not we're ready for a motion Chair, per case 168-404-38-L at 438 West 2nd Street, I move that we approve the certificate of appropriateness with the standard two conditions. All right. Do I have a second? Second. Any discussion on the motion? Hearing none, the Chair will call the question. All those in favor of the motion say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed nay. Motion passes and the COA as conditioned with the standard conditions is approved. Turning now to our next case at 151 Pomocan Park. In the Pomocan Park district, scope of work is Bill Front Porch. Is the applicant here? State your names with record, please. Vincent, Cindy, vote 151 Penn, Moken Park. You're going to have to speak up just a hair. These are weird mics. If you don't speak directly into them, you can't be heard. Vincent, Cindy, vote 151 Penn, Moken Park. All right. The staff has recommended approval of the application. I would like to initially note my appreciation that you have worked so hard with the staff to come up with an acceptable application. There are a couple substantive conditions that I would like to note just for the record. Okay. And get your agreement. The first one being the porch foundation should have a pilaster look like pillars, piers under each set of columns with the pilaster being recessed at least four inches. The final details will be brought back to the staff or board for approval. Understand. You're in agreement? Right. The second one is the columns are to have a finished appearance by being wrapped and have a top and bottom base with final details to come back to the staff for review and approval. Approved. The other two are the standard two conditions, which I have previously recited into the record. And are you in agreement with those? Yes. All right. All right, do I have any questions or comments about this application from the board? Any questions or comments from the audience? Again, I would like to thank you. I know this has been a bit of a process, and so I think we have reached, I hope, a good solution for you. Thank you. All right, then I am ready for a motion. Chair, in regards to case number 14820151 at 155 Penn Mogan Park, I move that we approve the certificate of appropriateness with the standard two conditions. And the condition that the porch foundation should have a pilaster to look like piers under each set of columns with the pilaster being recessed at least four inches and final details brought back to the staff or board. two column have a finished appearance being wrapped and have a top and bottom base with final details to come back to the staff for a vote and the standard two conditions as well okay all right oh i think i said the wrong number it's 151 and moken i'm not sure what i said i just made something up did you read into the record and and the standard two conditions all right uh do i have a second second any discussion on the motion hearing none the chair will call All the questions, all those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed, nay. The motion passes and the COA as conditions approved. Thank you. Thank you and good luck with your project. All right, turning now to 119 Arcadia Park in the seven parks historic district. The scope of work is to construct a garage. Is the applicant here? State your name for the record please. Scott Book. Again please. Mr. Scott Book. Mr. Book, staff has recommended approval of your application subject to one substantive change, which would be to provide the final door and window details and specifications to staff for review and approval prior to the issuance of the COA. Yes sir. Are you in agreement with that? Yes sir. The other, or the standard two conditions, which I have recited several times, are in agreement with those? Yes sir. All right. Any questions or comments about this application? Any questions or comments from the audience? All right, hearing none, Chair is ready for a motion. Chair, with regard to case number 00510119F at 119 Arcadia Park, I move for approval of the certificate of appropriateness with the standard two conditions, plus the condition as read providing final door and window details and the details and specifications to staff for review and approval prior to the issuance of a COA. All right, do I have a second? Second. Any discussion on the motion? Hearing none, the Chair will call the question. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed, nay. The motion passed and the COA has conditions approved. Thank you very much. Good luck with your project. Thank you. Turning now to 200 West High Street in the South Hill Historic District. This is the first United Methodist Church. Scope of work is change rear openings, construct driveway and rework the parking lot. Is the applicant here? Good evening, my name is Jeff Fox. I'm the lay leader for the downtown community of the First United Methodist Church. okay uh the staff has recommended approval of your application they have made a one substantive uh change i believe and that is to create an extra allen around let me just check this yeah create an extra allen around the sycamore trees to protect the tree per the red note on the plan reading rent with that we understand and the other two are the standard two conditions that have been previously read into the record are you in agreement with that we are in agreement all right any questions or comments from the uh board members any questions or comments from the audience hearing none the chair is ready for a motion Chair, per case number 09300200-Z at 200 West High Street, I move that we approve the certificate of appropriateness with the standard two conditions plus the additional condition to create an extra island around the sycamore tree to protect the tree per the red note on the plan all right do i have a second second any discussion on the motion hearing none the chair will call the question all those in favor say aye aye opposed nay the motion is approved and the coa as condition is approved thank you thank you all right uh turning now to 124 south ashland avenue scope of work is to demolish a two-story porch brick room and enclosed porch in a constructed edition and is within the south ashland central avenue historic district is the applicant here good afternoon darren taylor 239 north mill street mr taylor station name oh you have stated you need sorry I'm staff has recommended approval of the applications but there are a couple of substantive conditions that they have added and I'd like to read those into the record please the first one is to provide the staff an opportunity to document the rear additions prior to the demolition the second one is to submit the final door and window details and specifications to staff for review and approval prior to the issues of the COA. The third one, which is a little bit more substantive, so it'll take me a moment to work through it. In order to protect the two mature trees adjacent to the addition, the following measure shall be undertaken but are not limited to protecting the roots within the drip line from compaction caused by any heavy equipment by hand digging during the construction of the foundation system and using air knives as needed. Any pruning should be done in accordance with the ISA Arbana standards and long-term maintenance and trimming also be done in accordance with the ISA Arbana standards. The last two, four and five, are the standard conditions. Sir. Are we in agreement with all of those? We are in agreement with all of them. Yes, thank you. All right. We have questions or comments from the board members. so my one question has to do with the trees the site plan and the first floor plan don't show any trees of any sort so i until i got to the recommendations had no idea that we were talking about trees sure um and so i don't quite fully understand exactly what their location is to the addition but um i do know that despite the intent of the written requirements it still can be difficult to protect the trees we we have on a um another project added some language that i want to run by the board and see if you're acceptable with them please um the architect and LFUCG departments are to make site visits and to report on the construction work to make sure that construction team performance is within expectations and to ensure that these trees remain unharmed by the construction process. Yes, that's agreeable. And I've also spoken to staff as well about having an arborist come out and do a report on each of those trees, which the owner has begun that process. So there'll be kind of a twofold approach to that. So for sure, yes, we're- Excellent. For sure. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Did we need to have the site plans redrawn to show the location of the trees? I think for the record that we need to get those trees in. For sure we will, yeah. Otherwise our comments don't make my decision. No, for sure, yeah. And we'll document exactly their location and proximity to the building. And then when we get that species report, we'll have exactly what those species are, drip line and so forth, much like we did at Dudley Square Project, really understanding the nature of that as it relates to what we're authoring. And to show the actual canopy and relationship dashed in so that it's not just the little trunk dot. Yeah, right. Yeah, for sure. So am I hearing that we're going to add that as a specific condition on the recommendations or not? I think we have enough record here to document it. Yeah, we can submit that to staff or however you want to do that as an addendum to this. as an additional number or as an additional number yeah that that works for me and miss hill this is going to be your motion to make i think but first of all do i have any comments or questions from the audience first of all i'd also like to note that there are several letters in our packet that indicate uh support for the application in end of this project i appreciate that i also want to go on record by saying that i very much appreciate the staff's care and analysis of what we're proposing in the nature of this project. And the thoughtfulness that they put into it is really exemplary. I just want to make that statement on the record. I just appreciate it and thank you. Thank you. This process works best when we have really good communication between staff and the application. Indeed. Any other questions or comments about this application? All right, then. And I think we're ready for a motion, then. So I'd like to just suggest that this additional recommendation be pretty straightforward to just to submit revised site plan and first floor plan to show tree locations plus canopy. In addition to the ones I've already read, which is far as the motion. That's correct. Yes. I'm now looking for a motion. All right. Chair, per case 00710124-J at 124 South Ashland Avenue, I move that we approve the certificate of appropriateness with the standard two conditions plus the following four conditions. Number one, provide staff the opportunity to document the rear additions prior to demolition. Number two, to submit final door and window details and specifications to staff for review and approval prior to the issuance of the COA. Number three, which I'm going to also modify, to protect the two mature trees adjacent to the addition. The following measures shall be undertaken but are not limited to protecting the roots within the drip line from compaction caused by heavy equipment, hand digging for the construction of the foundation system and using air knives as needed. Any pruning shall be done in accordance with the ISA arborist standards and long term maintenance and trimming also done in accordance with the ISA arborist standards. and to add to this the architect and lfucg departments are to make site visits and reports on the construction work to make sure the construction team performance is within expectations and to ensure that these trees remain unharmed by the construction process and number four which is new to submit the revised site plan and first floor plan to the staff to show tree locations and canopy drip line along with standard two along with the standard two conditions okay do i have a second second do i have any discussion on this motion i will know for the record I think this is one where we should probably try to memorialize we will memorialize this in our minutes but I would like to have a standard template for these kind of issues when we're dealing with protection of trees this is coming up as a more and more frequent issue and I just like to get some standard language into our recommendation so that we're not constantly trying to adjust it other than that is there other discussion on this motion All right, the Chair will then call the motion. All those in favor of the motion say aye. Aye. All those opposed, none. The motion is passed. The COA is conditioned as approved. Thank you very much. Thank you all, as always. Thank you. With your project. All right, we will now circle back. And we're now at 439 Fayette Park in the Fayette Park is our district. The scope of work is construct front steps, sidewalk, stairs, and knee walls, install stone edging. This is at 439 Fayette Park. Is the applicant here? Yes. Chair. Yes, ma'am. Given that this is my historic district and this is a neighbor's project, I'm going to recuse myself. And so I'll be leaving both the discussion and the vote. All right, thank you very much. So it'll just be the three of us. All right, so we need a present. The staff has recommended disapproval of the application. I'm assuming as a matter of record that you would like to be heard on this and like to have a hearing. To that end, our process is this. The staff member will make a presentation and will set out the findings and the reasons for why they have recommended disapproval. I will then give you an opportunity to respond to that and to submit your argument as to why it should be approved. At the end of each presentation, there may be questions by the board members. When we have finished the presentation and questions, then we can open up to the audience for additional comments. So, Ms. Armstrong? I got those pictures. And I'm sorry, I didn't get your name for the record, Mr. Cassidy. I'm sorry, Skip, right past, please state your name for the record please. David Cassidy. All right, thank you. We'll pull this up. So this is the property at 439 Fayette Park. And the house has recently been restained. It had a stain on there, so it was allowed to be stained a different color. And so as you can see, there's limestone edging around up the driveway and on the front. As we go around, and then there is now a brick stairs leading up to the front porch and on the walkway and then the intermediate steps and leaning down onto the steps leading up to the street sidewalk. and also these knee wall plinths with the limestone on top. I'll sort of give you a little bit more images here. This was a house taken from the real estate pictures that showed that this did actually have concrete steps leading up to the porch. The porch was redone about, I think, in 2012. Then had a concrete walkway with the steps and had limestone steps leading down to the sidewalk with the handrails. I'm just going to give you some more images of that. And then this is sort of walking around the park gives you a general idea that for the most part it's consistently that it all has concrete walks and driveways and also leaning out. There is one difference. I don't know if I saw that. It is at the end of the park that the house directly across from this did actually have a brick wall, low brick wall, that was installed without a certificate of appropriateness. And this is prior to more enforcement that was able to catch that in time. So this is directly across from 439, as you can see. And this is a hard picture to see, but it's right there. So to be clear, the house that we're looking at did not have a COA permit as well. That's correct. So, and also later on there would be a neighboring discussion that might come back because the neighbors also has done this as well. Guidelines are included for your reference. The staff finds a proposal for the introduction of a new element such as brick walkways and new walls into the Fayette Park Historic District that does not have elements such as new walls or edging associated with the pattern of development, does not meet the guidelines. guidelines three states at site and settings that in addition to buildings and elements, the rounding sites and setting contribute to the overall historic properties and elements, including both natural and man-made features, including trees, fields, gardens, fences, driveways, retaining walls, and boundary definers. Historic sites and elements to help define the properties, historic character and appearance, and historic sites and settings should be preserved and maintained. Guidelines 36A and 36B state, respectively, the land features and land formations that are significant should be preserved and maintained and that are not altered or introduced should be compatible in the site with the surrounding properties. And Guidelines 36F, vistas and approaches should be preserved and maintained. In Fayette Park, the front yards have rolled earth from the front yard and finished down to the level of the street and the sidewalk and drives and other surfaces. The introduction of a new boundary to fire elements such as edging walls and an introduction of brick sidewalks are not part of the fabric of Fayette Park. These elements change the historic fabric of Fayette Park and should not be introduced in the historic district. And staff recommends denial of that proposal. And so, of course, the applicants are present. Does anybody have any questions at this point? One other question. There are no brick sidewalks anywhere else in this area, is there? No. All right, thank you. Mr. Bracken? The house you were referring to with the brick wall in front of it, did we not recently hear a request for an alteration? No, sir. Was that on another side? Oh, it did. I mean, it's received permits before, just not for that wall. These property owners have requested other things. Correct, but I was trying to remember there was a similar circumstance where we heard a request for a revision to the wall that was there. Not this one, but I think there might have been one on North Limestone that may have been the one you were talking about. In a nearby neighborhood. That's right. And that had a presence of already having retaining walls in that area. I think that's the property you're talking about. A follow-up question, was a COA process used for painting the house? It's a stain, and they did receive permission to sort of prep for the stain and restaining the property. But they don't necessarily need a permit to restain, but they did receive a permit to prep for that work. And we reviewed the material that was used on the property. What year was the house constructed? I want to say it was what in the 1895. Is your mic on? Yes. Okay. Pardon me? 1895. 1895, and the original sidewalk was the concrete one pictured, or what would have been an original sidewalk? Well, we're only going by what's there, and consistently there is concrete there. The property owners might have some different insight on that, given their excavation that they did when they removed some work. So I'm going to let them respond to that. Just trying to determine if brick-laid sidewalks were used during the original building period. I think that's a good question. And, you know, one reason I put some images of Fayette Park in that area is that consistently they're all concrete now. So if they did start off something else, that's not their nature now. Thank you. Well, and more importantly, what was the status of these walkways at the time that the approval was given for this being a historic district? Well, it is consistent with what you see now. I can't guess. It's consistent with the concrete that's there now. So if there had been brick walled ways prior to that time, they were long since gone, correct? Right. Right. But given the nature of the concrete in this area, I doubt anything was poured that new. Because this became a historic district, I believe, in the early 80s. And to be more clear, there were no knee balls whatsoever in this neighborhood, correct? Correct. All right. Except, and that happened, I think, in the 90s, the one we see. So I'll let the applicant and the contractor come up. And state your name for record, please. I'm Kevin Egan. All right, Ms. Egan. And Mr. Cassidy. Yes, sir. Whichever one of you want to go first, go. Sure. I think we've heard a lot tonight about the consistency of Fayette Park as part of our excavation. We were sure to take photos to show you all that there actually was red brick as part of our excavation. and consistent with such and the views and vistas of the property, we actually reconstructed what is referred to as edging in limestone, and we went the extra step to make sure that the limestone edging was permeable, meaning that water could drain from it. And I think the greater reason that needs to be brought to the board's attention of us doing this is that we have a large sycamore, which, as Susan Hill has made very good reference, that we're trying to protect from erosion and root rot. Now, this board has previously declined a retaining wall on our portion of the property, which I'd like on the record, I think, is poor judgment in the fact that the sycamore tree is, in fact, not only reducing the soil and elevation of our front yard and therefore leading to water damage or water to the cellar, it's also causing erosion towards the sidewalk. had nothing been done we would have lost this tree I am curious as to what happened to the CoA application being filed before you commenced the work we did file a CoA application for refurbishment of our walkway sir you did not file an application with this work did you we filed an application to have our walkway refurbisher I think the staff had made a notation that there was on COA issue? I would respectfully ask the staff to check the records for our COA, sir. Is Ms. Armstrong here? Ms. Armstrong? Was there a COA filed before they began to work? I believe there is no application for brick to be put down as a sidewalk material. And I'll just I'm not quite sure. There were several COAs that were being requested at this time when they were doing work. Let's come back to the initial statement following right after you described the scope of work. The work has been completed without a COA permit. Right. There was no permit for the edging, and there was no permit for the replacement of the sidewalk with break. I think if you were saying there was a permit pulled. We discussed it as part of our, sir, we were trying to get projects done, which included tuck pointing, limestone cleaning, and the staining of our home all at the end of last year. Because as you well know, it's difficult to have exemplary contractors such as Dave Cassidy. We had the ability to line them all up while the weather was good in December, and therefore we did so. Well, I think the problem that we have here is we have an already constructed knee wall, correct, and brick wall, and I don't remember any CLA ever been having approved for that part of the project. Well, I clearly understand that, sir. The project does include... And so as far as I'm concerned, you're here without an application having been filed prior to you doing the work. Is that right? That's what this report says, sir. And do you have documentation to the? I'm happy to pull our COA, which clearly states that we're refurbishing the sidewalk, sir. Well, this may be part of the appeal. We'll see. Anything else that you want to add to your comments? No, but we're happy to supply the photos of the elevations for the brick that was found during excavation, sir. And we can add those into the record, yes. Yes. They should be added into the record. Please. All right, so before I turn to staff commentary, are there any questions or comments from the audience? Yes, ma'am. Hi, I'm Kathy Chopra, and I live at- Bring you down so we can hear you. Thank you. Hi, I'm Kathy Chopra, and I live at 444 Fayette Park, and my land is adjacent to Kevin's property at 439. And at this point, the work has been done. I will say, despite the COA not being done, which I hope you can forgive us for that because this also affects my yard as well. I will say one thing on a positive note, after the, what I call the plant apocalypse of March 2023, There was extremely a lot of damage in my backyard, especially with trees that were broken and fell down. There was a lot of repair work. Now we talk about the sycamore that sits on the property line. Adam and I share the maintenance and care of that plant. So again, for right now, asking forgiveness of what I've done as well, that the curbing, and I'll use the word curbing, was a positive on some levels because it also, with all the plant material I had to remove in the front, what was along my walkways, it caused even more soil erosion. And I did fill out my application recently and explained about soil erosion and the sycamore. And my backyard, my backyard is probably, I mean my front yard, my front yard is probably one of the highest in Fayette Park. I sit at a higher point. and with my rolling of the soil, it's only gotten worse with the years we've had the home. And so, again, putting this small stone curbing all the way around the front that meets with my concrete, what would you call it, steps, and I had those approved 15 years ago, it has helped for soil erosion. We did prune that lovely sycamore recently with care. So I think, again, all I can do is ask for forgiveness. I can't go back and change anything. But I can ask forgiveness for the curbing because it will affect, his curbing will affect mine as well. Because we meet so close together, it is like we have a shared front yard. Okay, well, at the present time, your application is out in front of us right now. No, but it is going to affect. I understand how they connect in, but we really can't address whether your application should or should not have been approved at this session. Correct, but because I know, Kevin, again, our yards are so close, I hope we can think a little more positive. And I'm sorry it happened in a way it wasn't as nice, but I hope you can forgive what's going on in our little corner of the world. The difficulty I'm seeing is I think you all decided some kind of retaining wall was needed. Some kind of retaining wall was needed to prevent any further erosion of that hill. Yes. Yes. Okay. Any other questions or comments from the board members? One additional comment. Sure. You did ask about any other brick sidewalks in Fayette Park, the home directly across from us that does have the knees wall. It has knee wall. Has a brick sidewalk. Has a brick sidewalk. And that was also done without a COA? It's been there probably as long as the wall's been there. Okay. All right. Any other questions or comments from the board members? Thank you so much, by the way. You're welcome. Thank you, ma'am. Ms. Curry, did you have a comment? Just a clarification in terms of the process relative to COAs and application for the same and so forth. The COA that was issued previously about staining the house, the house had a stain on it for many years, first of all. And that's what enabled, normally the process would not be, of course, to paint an unpainted brick house. But it had a red stain on it that a lot of people, over time, that stain faded and so forth and so on and kind of merged into the brick color. and I think people thought it was a natural brick finish, but it really had a stain on it. So I know we're not hearing that today, but this is tied to the COA that the gentleman has referenced. He said also address the stain and also other work. The thing to know in terms of the process is that none of what's before you today, by the nature of the scope of work, is anything the staff is empowered to handle. So it would not have been possible to include the scope of work of what's before you today in the permit about the stain because that was a staff issue permit. And the staff's not empowered to issue anything of all the list of today's. It has to come to the board. So this would have been before you as it is currently, but could not have been rolled into another issued by the staff permit. All right, thank you. Ms. Lemire? You've flashed up a photo of proving that there was brick here at one point. Can you tell me where that photo was taken? There's actually two locations. They're both taken in the areas for which there was that we did excavate where there would have at one time been steps including the front of the home and the I guess you would call it the steps to meet the sidewalk. We did not excavate the sidewalk itself because we were already below grade. We placed red brick on the sidewalk that existed in attempt to maintain or to bring our existing sidewalk to grade. So the photo is not under a sidewalk, you put the brick on top of the existing sidewalk, which is concrete. Yes, the photos are from where steps at one time would have been. So the steps may at one time have been brick, but we don't know about the sidewalk. No, because we did no demolition. Anything else? You mentioned that if you don't do this retaining wall, you're going to lose the sycamore. Did you speak to an arborist about this? How do you know that this is the case or had you considered there are other ways to retain and keep a rolled grass curve without actually putting in the pavers? There are other systems? We have consulted Towne Branch as well as Billy Davis, both of which are or have on staff arborists. And our issue, and it was noted again by even Towne Branch, it's the wash from the tree meaning where does water go from the sides of our homes they only have two directions to go as a part of this process we also had a drain put out to deliver water out to the rear of the property but fayette park's front yards are so short there's no there's no place but a wash we only have a wash and the only two places water travels are to our road or we route them to the backyard but our backyard isn't close enough to route water we routed water to 444 fayette park there was no french drain that you could put in to handle the water we did sir we put multiple french drains in as part of this project but we cannot put a french french drain in and dave can speak to this from where the downspout is to yours to our street okay May I make something just clear real quick? When we talk about drainage, one of the problems is my backyard goes in front of my house. There's 10 inches property line along the side of Kevin's house. So hence, there's no place for him to drain off his house. And I have a drain problem also in some of my sides of my house. So he had had to run the drains through my backyard. because the property lines are so close to each other on that one. Like I said, it actually is 10 inches if you come up to the house. And there's nowhere else to run a lot of this. If you run it in the front yard, which is, again, the obvious, we've already got that problem. Like I said, we're battling it still with that tree. The erosion was so bad that some of the roots were exposed toward the sidewalk. And so again, we were trying to be proactive adding more soil and trying to get the grass to hold it in. And that was a trial and error and we've learned from that experience. But again, we do have drainage problems no matter how we do it. Thank you. Okay, any other questions or comments from the board members? Brett. After reviewing this prior to the meeting, my first concern was your familiarity with the requirements of a historic district and the COA process. I no longer have that concern because you went through that process for the restating of the house. So lack of knowledge then appears not to be a factor here. I'm part of a neighborhood. where incidents of exterior changes are made in the absence of board approval. And that is very difficult to enforce both at the board level and at the neighbor level. One owner acting on their own, contrary to understood restrictions, is not an appropriate action. So I'm just trying to explain my vote here. You certainly have done a lot of work, and I think it is very unfortunate that you failed to abide by the governing rules of your neighborhood, regardless of what circumstances are with the oak or what else, what other rationale or reasons you had. And we are here to protect the entire neighborhood from individual owners who determine they want to do something on their own will. And not under the provisions of the historic district ordinances. So, for that reason, I will be voting to disapprove. Well, sir, I would not interrupt you, but I would note that there are no appeals to what we've done via the neighborhood. In fact, I think it's righteously supported. And we have, as you said, invested a considerable amount of money in these homes, and we should be within the fabric of our communities encouraging that. I firmly believe so. Well, it is. I appreciate that. It is not a matter of money, it's not a matter of time, it's not a matter of contractor schedules. It should be. It is a matter of whether or not you followed the ordinance. Well, sir, I followed the consistency of the existing home. There's red brick and there's limestone. The ordinances for which I have read and reviewed say that the Preservation and Historic Commission's goals include that in an abridged version of following the consistency of what existed for which we did. I didn't put a Ferris wheel out there, or I didn't attempt to make a dramatic change to the architecture, or for that matter, the taste of the neighborhood of the home. And I think that although I understand your vote in my respective, because we're all offered But I think that you should also at least acknowledge the fact that the investment was consistent in nature with the architecture and the premise of the home. I didn't put, for instance, a cobblestone walkway out there that is in no way consistent with the neighborhood. We didn't use like mixture models that are not consistent. We went the extra mile to invest in limestone. And we thoughtfully invested in a property that deserved thoughtful investment. And perhaps your investment would have been even stronger had you followed the process. All right, so anything else? I just have one more thing to say. Is I am mostly agreeing with Brock. I do care about saving the sycamore tree. And if it is a retaining wall that is specific to that retained sycamore tree that we need to figure out a solution to, That is something I'd be more willing to make sure that we save the tree. But I haven't seen the Arborist reports. I don't know exactly what their recommendation is for stopping the erosion around the tree. And if you had brought that to the staff and we were having that discussion, I would be more than happy to hear it. But in terms of doing the work, I have to agree that you did it without a COA. And I think the staff makes a good argument that in fact brick is not a part of the neighborhood fabric. And not to pile on, but I think earlier we had a conversation with an applicant over in the Pomocan Avenue, where initially they wanted to build a porch right across the front of the house, nice looking porch. And they vowed the application and we just approved it because it's going to be emitive. And so with a lot of working back and forth, we were able to find a compromise by which they have their front porch. That is not inconsistent with the neighborhood and it's actually complements the house that they have. In this case, you completely abdicated any opportunity for us to have a dialogue with you as to how we could work out a process to save the Sycamore, and yet at the same time preserve the existing fabric of that neighborhood. I drove over there just to give it a look, and I happened to go with the prior owners of that house years and years and years ago. It has nothing to do here. But when I came through the neighborhood and saw how visually dominant your all's changes were to the front of that house, I was going, that's why we have a restriction within the guidelines that you should blend, not stand out. And you all, if I can use the analogy of a choir, choirs are supposed to be all heard as a unit, not one individual voice. And your voice really, really is quite loud on that street. And that's the problem. Now, I think you thought you were doing a great thing. And frankly, it's handsome looking. But it doesn't blend with the rest of the neighborhood. It stands out. I had the exact same problem with my house. I have a nice curved sidewalk that was put in to enhance its visual appeal. It stands out. I don't I've never put it back maybe I should but nevertheless I can see how that sidewalk is not in conformity with the kind of sidewalks they traditionally see and this is even more amplified when you're in a closed neighborhood like Fayette Park or Transylvania Park Melrose or whatever they all have to speak in a uniform voice and that's all I'm gonna say at this point is there any further discussion on this motion all right I believe we're ready for a motion Chair, with regard to case number 069-00439-S at 439 Fayette Park, I move that the certificate of appropriateness be disapproved. Do I have a second? Second. Any discussion on the motion? Hearing none, the Chair will call the question. All those in favor of disapproving this application say aye. Aye. Aye. Approved. The application has been disapproved. You do have an opportunity to take this up on appeal, if you like, to the Planning Commission. And the staff can brief you on that. Thank you for your time. And at least you did comment that it looks nice. You can agree that it does look nice. I just wish we had started. Well, we're done. We're done. Okay. All right. So I believe I have some minutes pending before us for approval. Do I have a motion to approve your minutes? I believe there are a couple of minor changes that were made. We have the June minutes for your approval. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. The May minutes, we had some editing challenges that needed further work, so they'll be with you for the next round. So you're being asked to review and vote on the June 24 minutes, please. Yeah, that's the only one I said I had in front of me. Yes. Okay, do I have a motion to approve the June 12th? Chair, may I make one request? On page seven, third paragraph, the one, two, three, four, five, the sixth line, just to add a little more clarity there. Having a similar original yard layout, the word original being added. And then further noting that the raised row there, T-H-E-R-E, did not pose any maintenance challenges. Just those two words, original and there. Okay, and you can read a little bit as though I had also made the same changes, but I wanted that clarified. Thank you. Well, give the staff your suggested changes. Yes. I've made note, but we'd be appreciative to have your actual markup. Thank you. And I would note, Ms. Hill did make some comments about the minutes already that will be adjusted. Any other changes? He was just shutting the door. Ms. Hill has submitted by email some proposed changes as well. And we have a motion to approve the minutes as changed. So moved. Do I have a second? Second. without objection the the minutes as changed is approved is Susan waiting to come back in I honestly don't know sorry checking out the door her hat is still here so perhaps she will be returned well perhaps let me go invite her back okay I am sorry I mean I just moved right to the very end of the meeting so she may have gone home. No, her stuff is here. Her things are so good. I suspect her neighbors are defending her here. Well, if nothing else, to come back for her hat. Oh, yes, and maybe to save her from the camera. I didn't say that. But it is difficult to judge if you've stepped out to recuse to know when to come back in. Here she comes. Susan, my apologies. sometimes get this little bit with heavy the only thing you missed was they did approve the june minutes but we did note that you had sent some corrections and we have those and that you would be hosting a summer party for the board oh yes all right is there any other business pending before on the agenda if not i think are we ready for a motion to adjourn yes let me have a motion then we have one question okay um since i had to step out um On item under number nine was the Bell Court proposal for 509 East Main. Did you read into the record 9, 10, 11, and 12? Yes, I believe I did, but let me make sure we did. I'm sorry to have to ask. No, that's a good question. All of them, of course. All right, first of all, no, we have not. Let's go to Belcourt. Let it be noted for the record that that application has been withdrawn. And with respect to the South Hill, Histart District 10, 11, and 12, those are noted as incomplete. And we are not required to take any action on them at this time. Right. And would you just note the addresses associated with the numbers, please? The address is 509 East Main Street for the one that's been withdrawn. with respect to the south hill historic district 226 228 and 232 west maxwell street and the scope of work is a proposal to construct single family structures with detached garages they are designated as incomplete due to a zoning issue and so there's no action required by us at this time for the reason that we have no jurisdiction over it because the application is not yet completed due to a zoning issue thank you all right anything else we just tried to do needed to do a little housekeeping and i didn't have my usual continuity we have to be thorough and make sure all the dust bunnies are gathered up in the proper place and disposed of okay thank you so if i have a motion to adjourn please so moved you have a second second without objection we We stand adjourned. Thank you so much. I'm going to go to the next video.