# Budget and Finance and Economic Development Committee on 2024-08-27 1:00 PM - August 27, 2024 > Auto-transcribed civic record · August 27, 2024 - **Permalink**: https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/meeting/6196 - **Source video**: https://lfucg.granicus.com/player/clip/6196?view_id=14&redirect=true - **Date**: 2024-08-27 - **Last revised**: August 27, 2024 - **Length**: 12,420 words - **Speakers**: Chair, Clerk > ⚠️ **Auto-generated content.** Audio from the official Granicus video was auto-transcribed with OpenAI's open-source Whisper large-v3-turbo model, run locally by The Lexington Times. Structured facts were extracted with GPT-4o; the narrative summary was written by Anthropic Claude. Verbatim wording may contain errors. See [methodology](https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/about/methodology) or [report a correction](mailto:editor@lexingtonky.news). --- ## Meeting Overview The Budget, Finance & Economic Development Committee convened on August 27, 2024, at 1:00 PM with J. Brown presiding as the meeting officer. The committee addressed five agenda items during the session, focusing primarily on financial updates and informational presentations. The committee took three votes during the meeting, with one item receiving formal approval - the June 25, 2024, Committee Summary. Four additional items were presented for informational purposes, including the Monthly Financial Update for August 2024, a Change Orders Update, discussion of the RH Williams Cultural Center, and a presentation on Undue Medical Debt. No public comments were heard during this meeting. ## Attendance The following members were present at the meeting on August 27, 2024: • J. Brown • C. Ellinger • D. Wu • H. LeGris • L. Sheehan • P. Worley • F. Brown • J. Reynolds • K. Plomin • T. Fogle • S. Lynch • D. Sevigny **Absent:** • W. Baxter No members arrived late to the meeting. A total of 12 members were present with 1 member absent. ## Votes and Decisions The committee took three votes during the August 27, 2024 meeting, all of which passed unanimously. **Approval of March 19, 2024 Committee Summary** [timestamp: 00:00] L. Sheehan motioned to approve the March 19, 2024 Committee Summary, with H. LeGris providing the second. The motion passed unanimously. **Ordinance 50-2016 Amendment** [timestamp: 02:00] K. Plomin motioned to amend Ordinance 50-2016 pertaining to the contingency designation fund policy, seconded by L. Sheehan. The ordinance amendment passed unanimously. **Adjournment** [timestamp: 02:46] H. LeGris motioned to adjourn the meeting, with D. Wu seconding the motion. The adjournment motion passed unanimously. All votes were conducted as voice votes with unanimous consent, and no roll call votes were taken during this meeting. ## Approval of June 25, 2024, Committee Summary [timestamp: 00:00] The committee considered approval of the summary from their June 25, 2024 meeting. The agenda item was presented as a routine procedural matter requiring committee action. The committee approved the June 25, 2024 meeting summary without recorded discussion or debate. No specific concerns were raised regarding the accuracy or completeness of the summary document during the proceedings. The approval was completed successfully, allowing the committee to proceed with the remainder of their agenda items for the August 27, 2024 meeting. ## Monthly Financial Update – August 2024 [timestamp: 00:30] Commissioner Hensley presented the monthly financial update for August 2024, supported by Lueker and Holbrook during the presentation. The agenda item served as an informational briefing to update attendees on the current financial status and performance metrics for the month. The presentation was delivered as a collaborative effort among the three speakers, with Commissioner Hensley taking the lead role in presenting the financial data and analysis. Lueker and Holbrook provided additional context and supporting information throughout the discussion. This monthly financial review represents a regular reporting mechanism to keep stakeholders informed about budgetary performance, revenue collections, expenditure patterns, and other key financial indicators relevant to the organization's operations during August 2024. The session was structured as an informational presentation rather than a decision-making item, allowing the presenters to share financial data and trends without requiring formal action from the meeting participants. This format enables regular monitoring of financial performance and provides transparency in fiscal management practices. No specific concerns or issues were noted in the available information, suggesting the financial update proceeded as a routine briefing on the organization's August 2024 financial position and performance metrics. ## Change Orders Update [timestamp: 01:00] Plomin and Slatin provided an informational presentation on change orders during the August 27, 2024 meeting. The presentation focused on updating the board on the criteria and process for administrative approval of change orders. The speakers discussed the established procedures that govern when change orders can be approved administratively versus when they require full board consideration. They outlined the specific criteria used to determine the appropriate approval pathway for different types and scales of change orders. The presentation covered the administrative process currently in place for handling change orders that meet certain predetermined thresholds and conditions. Plomin and Slatin explained how this streamlined approach allows for more efficient project management while maintaining appropriate oversight. This was an informational update with no action items or decisions required from the board. The presentation served to keep board members informed about ongoing change order procedures and ensure transparency in the administrative approval process. ## RH Williams Cultural Center [timestamp: 01:30] J. Brown, Fogle, and Carter presented information about the RH Williams Cultural Center during this agenda item. The discussion focused on the facility's historical background and its current infrastructure needs. The speakers outlined the center's history and highlighted critical infrastructure updates that require attention. The presentation was informational in nature, providing attendees with an overview of the cultural center's current operational status and maintenance requirements. The agenda item served as an informational briefing rather than a decision-making discussion, with the three speakers sharing their assessment of the facility's needs with the meeting participants. ## Undue Medical Debt [timestamp: 02:00] Wu and Stahl delivered a presentation addressing the issue of undue medical debt and exploring potential community-based relief solutions. The presentation served as an informational session to educate attendees about the scope and impact of medical debt burdens facing residents. The speakers outlined the challenges posed by undue medical debt within the community and discussed various approaches that could provide relief to affected individuals and families. The presentation examined potential strategies and solutions that could be implemented to address this financial burden. This agenda item was structured as an informational presentation, with Wu and Stahl serving as the primary speakers. The session focused on raising awareness about medical debt issues and presenting possible pathways for community intervention and support. The presentation concluded without any formal action items or decisions, as it was designed to inform rather than prompt immediate policy changes or votes. The information shared during this session may serve as groundwork for future discussions or initiatives related to medical debt relief in the community. --- ## Decisions - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Approval of March 19, 2024 Committee Summary - **Ordinance 50-2016** — passed (0-0): Amend ordinance pertaining to the contingency designation fund policy - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Adjournment --- ## Full transcript Now you can choose, that's the matter of a man I'm sittin' in the railway station Got a ticket for my destination On a tour of one night stands My suitcase and guitar in hand And every stop is neatly planned For a poet and a one-man band Homeward bound I wish I was Homeward bound Home where my thoughts escape in home When my music's playing home When my love lies waiting silently for me Every day is an endless stream Of cigarettes and magazines And each town looks the same to me The movies and the factories And every stranger's face I see Reminds me that I long to be Homeward bound I wish I was Homeward bound Home Where my thoughts are escaping Home Where my music's playing Home Where my love lies waiting silently for me Tonight I'll sing my songs again I'll play the game and pretend But all my words come back to me In shades of mediocrity Like emptiness and harmony I need someone to comfort me Homeward bound I wish I was homeward bound Home where my thoughts are escaping Home where my music's playing Oh, my love lies Wait a silently for me Silently for me We're back up in the country, back in the hills Down in the hollers where the folks are real Living with the crazies and the old wildcats Sought off shotguns and crew skin caps That's where I'm from and I'm proud to say I'm from the country and I like it that way Everybody knows everybody Everybody calls you friends You don't need an invitation Kick off your shoes, come on in Yeah, we know how to work and we know how to play We're from the country and we like it that way All day long we work in the fields And bring it on home to a home-took meal We love you like Sunday, treat you like Saturday night And when the beds get full We can sleep in the hay Hey, we're from the country And we like it that way Everybody knows everybody Everybody calls you free You don't need an invitation Get off your shoes, come on in Yeah, we know how to work And we know how to play We're from the country And we like it that way Everybody knows everybody Everybody calls you friends You don't need an invitation Kick off your shoes, come on in Yeah, we know how to work and we know how to play We're from the country We're from the country We're from the country and we like it that way Thank you. and get this meeting started I'd like to call the order of the June 25th the June 25th, 2024 Budget Finance and Economic Development Committee meeting to start on time today at 1 o'clock. We'll go straight to our agenda. And the first item on the agenda is the approval of the June. The first item on the agenda is the approval of the June 25th, 2024 committee summary. That's included in your packet. So there was a motion to approve and second it. Are there any questions or corrections? Hearing a see of none, all those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Are there any that oppose? Hearing none, that motion passes. The next item on our agenda is the monthly financial update. We have Commissioner Hensley, Director Holbrook and Luker. And I'll welcome you to the podium. The mic is yours. Good afternoon, everyone. We're going to have a really quick review today. We only have one month to report on. Welcome to the new fiscal year. So we're reviewing financials for the month of July. So we're just looking at the month of July. We're actually just going to take a real quick bow. This is the closest we've ever been and probably ever will be. We are within $25,000 actuals to budget on revenue. So, Wes, congratulations. This is outstanding. So we just are excited about this. Insurance is the main story. Unfortunately, this is probably due to timing difference. As we kind of lose this excitement in August, things kind of level out a little bit. One of the benefits of seeing our financials on a monthly basis is a lot of our month-end fluctuations will appear in our financial statements, and you can really see it more in the year over year. You can really see that timing difference in when we collected it this year versus when we collected it last year. But that does kind of smooth out as we go through the year. we do have revenue higher this year than we did last year but we were right on budget for the year and then as we go into our expenses we are a little bit under budget we are reflecting some savings and personnel that is primarily due to our overtime as we see those budgets starting to come on we see some of our activity picking up in our overtime budgets primarily in our police budgets those pick up a little bit when UK moves on to campus we start seeing a little bit of the activity picking up with those activities for fall when our football seasons pick up so we'll start seeing more utilization come on online there as we get into the fall activities that are happening around town and our festivals and those kind of things that are happening and then we We have some operating variances that we're seeing already. We have had some conversation in the past about our budget spread. As you all will recall, we don't just take our whole 12-month budget and divide it. We try and anticipate when we're going to see those expenses. And so our divisions put on the budget when we think we're going to see things, and then our expenses come in when we actually realize those. And so we'll see some difference as to when they expect to see something versus when they actually see it. So the primary drivers of our operating, there's actually 1.7, we got really loud real quick, sorry. $1.7 million of our operating variance is reflected just from police, E911, computer services, social services, and parks and recreation. So without those operating variances that we know what those are attributable to, we would actually be showing an operating variance of only about 11%. So just knowing where the budget is versus when the expense hit and being able to kind of account for those items, we're actually showing a much more reasonable variance for the month of about 11% in operating. Other than that, it's just a really quick report. We only have the one month to report on. Did anybody have any questions? All righty. Committee members, any questions? All right, Commissioner, it looks like you're off the hook. Easy today. All right, thank you. Thank you for that financial update. The next item on our agenda is the change orders update. And Director Slayton, I apologize for us running out of time last meeting, but we promise we'll get you on today. First up. That's all right. It hasn't changed a whole lot over the summer, actually. So the change order report is, this is related to Resolation 630-220. and it was approved by council in December of 2020. It's reflected in a CAO policy 15, and this is really designed to reduce the timeline of the change order process. It doesn't require any legislative action, which means law doesn't have to get involved. We don't have timing issues with council schedule, and this allows us to divert minor change orders to an administrative approval process as opposed to a council approval process. The criteria for what can actually go through this alternate process is the change order has to be less than 10% of the original contract award, and if there are multiple change orders on a project, the cumulative total has to be less than 10%. If it's a change order of 5% or less, then it's approved by the division director. If the change order is between 5 and 10, then it gets approved by me, the commissioner, and the director of the division. And then, of course, anything that's over 10% or more than a million dollars gets approved by council and would require a resolution and two readings. Since we started doing this in December of 2020, it started off a little slow because it kind of takes people time to get used to this new process. We've done 45 change orders through this alternate process. The average allocation of the original project allocation is $2.1 million. The average change order is $41,000. The highest percentage is 9%, and that's a cumulative total. And the lowest percentage change was a negative 34%, which was a project that we had closed short. But the average percent change is 1.19%. uh you can kind of see the uh the trend we did eight the first year 13 the next year 15 in 2023 we've done nine this year we'll probably be in the 15 to 20 range by the end of the year i would say and this is the 2024 change orders that have gone through this alternate process so far and you can see it's a lot of different things you know there's uh construction projects um there's parks projects elevator repairs park design services and so far this year it's the average percent change is 2.78 percent and that's pretty much it oh and councilmember Brown I know we had I think we had discussed earlier we can report this out via a different method and I talked to you the commissioner a we could actually do this as just an email to council annually as opposed to doing a presentation. So this could have been an email instead of a presentation. Okay, yeah, some of us appreciate emails. Appreciate the email. So, yeah, so we'll take into consideration and we'll talk to Kelly and Council Member Plumman about how to communicate that going forward. Okay. So committee members, any questions? First is Council Member Ellen. Thank you, Chair. And thank you for giving us this information. Is there a limit on how many times they say they just keep wanting to come back for five change and five again, so they just keep coming back to the director? No, it's a cumulative total of 10% would be the max. So you could have five or six change orders, but if you never get to that 10% amount. But once you get that 10 is when it kicks in, right? That's when it would come to council for a formal decision. And it looks like we've actually, you have some that are negative changes in, too? And that's usually, that's typically like at the end of a project, you know, we've maybe had some cost savings along the line. And so the last change order is a closeout change order that, you know, reduces the amount of the total project. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Ellen Good. Next is Council Member Plowman. Thank you, Council Member Brown, Chair. I was just going to make a comment that you see this started back in 2020, which is a long time ago. But this was just the first step in the evolution of looking how we can make our time more productive and not repeat and having it be more efficient. And so since then, if you know, we've done price contracts, donations, and sole source providers. And you see those each time we get our dockets. You know, we're picking up things to make us more effective and efficient. So thank you, Todd. You've done a great job on this, helping us. I think we started working on that way before 2020, though. Are there any other questions about this item? Todd? All right, not seeing any. Thank you. Thank you. All right, y'all, going back to our agenda, the next item on today's agenda is the R.H. Williams Cultural Center. I think we have the board here, the board chair, and several members of the board. But before you present, I'll turn it over to Council Member Fogle, who put this item in committee during last year's fund balance discussion to give an introduction. Thank you, Chair. And it is my pleasure. Last October, I was fresh, new, and nervous when I asked my colleagues to consider a renovation at the Robert H. Williams Culture Center. So it is my honor being a community person all my life. I'm 64, and I remember when this building was an orphan home for young folks. And so I knew that the building was standing. I knew that colleagues, the building needed renovation. They needed a roof, which we now have. And they have changed direction and leadership, and we have these five people before us. And we have heard this presentation, but I can't wait for you all to hear it and see the photos about how rich the ancestry and community and how deep-rooted the community is with this facility and just activities that will go on inside of this facility. So it is my honor right now to introduce Tora, and I hope I pronounced your name right, because I've gone all my life being Tana, Tana, Tanya, whatever. But she created this presentation to help us understand the history and the importance of this very space. She herself holds values as a mother, a wife. She is the marketing director and I'm just giving you a little plug because you are an amazing woman to me, holding all of these positions in community. And you show great leadership. So without further ado, I give you to her. Thank you so much. That was really kind of you. But community is very important to me and I am honored to be able to be one of the members that serve on this board with my colleagues here beside me. So I am the marketing director at a local real estate company, Guide Realty, which is now the largest African American real estate company in Kentucky. And I'm very proud of that. We worked really hard to get to that point. And I am starting my 20th season at Transy as the head dance coach. So community and I'm from Lexington. So to be a part of this is really exciting for me. So today I want to share with you about the Robert H. Williams Culture Center, which has become a passion project of mine. There's not one person in my board members know, if I talk to them, this is coming up in conversation because it's so important to not just me, but our community and the city in which we belong. So if we can start with the presentation, if you have ever drove down Georgetown Street, I wonder if you've ever paid attention to the big, beautiful building that sits right on Georgetown Street. I mean, we are probably less than two miles from it right now. It is 16,000 square feet and sits under three acres of land. And this building has served a rich culture of history right here for our city. So if you've not ever been in this building, I tell people all the time, once you see it, I'm not sure why it's showing up a little strange on the show. Okay. No problem. But once you see it, once you walk in it, you can feel the history, and you yourself always ask the question, how can I get involved? Well, it's going to take the community. It took the community before when it started, and it's going to take the community now to continue that. So I would like to introduce our board members. There are some that are here with us currently. Ms. Teresa Searcy is with us. Mr. Vincent Green. Ms. Cleo Jones and we have a few that aren't here. Ms. Delphine Ridgeway, Mr. Phillip Bibbs and we have two new board members since the printing of this. Rachel Crabtree and I am missing one other name. Yes, Chantella Whitfield. So we're really excited to have two new fresh board members with us as well. as well. So and as you see in this picture, I am newer to the board so and I come with lots of energy and excitement and want to do all the things and thankfully the board just says okay we could try that and they are down for it. So last October we hosted our first ever homecoming. It was just an event to bring the community back to the center. Post-COVID as you all know, I was hard on a lot of people and it was no different for our center. Our center took a huge hit during that time. So we are trying to restore it back to its beauty physically and with all the programming that we're going to bring. So in October last year, we had the pleasure of having Mayor Linda Gordon come out. It was a wonderful event, well attended, lots of community partners, the community came out and we are looking forward to having that event again. So in October, you are all welcome to join us right there on Georgetown Street for our 2024 homecoming. Now, I'm not going to read our mission and vision because you could probably get the sense because I'm so passionate about this project. Our mission and vision, it's really simple. We want to continue to provide programming and resources to the community in which we sit in. So we sit, like we said, right on Georgetown Street in an area that has been disenfranchised for many, many years. But with this center, and we'll get into the history of it, which is the most profound thing about this project, but it has served the community since 1892. And with 20 women that started it in 1892, we look forward to being a group that continues that service for our community. and for the citizens in Lexington. So a little bit about our history. So Robert H. Williams Culture Center was not always that. In 1892, a group of about 20 women came together to form the colored orphan industrial home. At the time, no one was caring for the unhoused African-American children. And as you all know, a lot was happening in 1892, right? Coming fresh out of 1865, these women came together and formed a center for the unhoused black children. And that stayed for over 100 years. In that space, on Georgetown Street, these women cared for the children. Up until, not these Pacific women, because time goes on, but up until about 1988, that wasn't that long ago 1988 children still lived in that house and those children were taken care of by the community by many generous people in lexington that cared for them so since 1988 when the children left a generous donation came and the the orphan turned into a community center So from 1988 until present times, we've been able to run programming. And the programming is quite extensive, what we've done since 1988, as you can imagine. But where we want to go moving forward, it's going to take some big vision and some big help. And that's why we are here today. But I do want to read this quote that is on the screen. And this is from Mrs. E. Bell Mitchell Jackson. She's one of the original founders of this center. We did not have a dollar to start with, but through the mercy of our Heavenly Father and the kind generosity of friends, we have succeeded admirably. Now, if they were able to do that in 1892, I think we can do that in 2024 as well. All right, so I spoke briefly about some of our programming. So last year I mentioned we did have the homecoming of 2023. Great success, and we're looking forward to having that again this year. We currently do have some programming. Our center, and we're going to get into why we're here today, but because of the needs of our center, what we can provide for the community is very limited. But because we are constrained by our building in the state that it's currently in, we still want to be able to offer assistance and resources to our community. So we have started. I'm really excited about it. My passion is with children and teaching. So we are starting the Lex Read and Play Library. We have converted two spaces in our building, and it is open the last Saturday of each month for two hours. Just a safe space for kids to come and play. We have received so many donations of books and toys. It's just an opportunity for the community to come in. We offer our facility and grounds for rentals. We actually have a great partner. We have an event in the next week coming up. And then other things that we're going to be doing, obviously we are starting a campaign fundraiser, a brick by brick, 100 hearts to give $100 each. That's what we're starting with. So we're looking for 100 friends to help us kick off our brick by brick fundraiser. We're going to start some Sunday strolls through history and tours of the building. Like I said, it takes you to come into the building to feel that energy and passion. So, and then again, we'll have our homecoming again this year. Very briefly on our community partners. We have so many community partners. We have partnered with the Black Children's Book Week, Black Soil. We continue to partner with them, Guide Realty, Elaine Allen, fraternities, local sports organizations. This list goes on and on and on, and we want to continue those partnerships because we have this space and resource to do so. All right, now let's get to why we are here today, right? So the building, as you all know, it's a over 100-year-old building. The original building that stood in 1892 burned in a fire. So in 1912, there was a fire that consumed the building. Well, in 1912, those same women came together, garnered the support of a community, and they raised the funds to build what is now sitting on Georgetown Street. So that building of 16,000 square feet, three acres, that's been there since 1912. So as you can imagine, it is firmly built, but does need a little love and attention right now. So three of our main points and our critical needs for our building, roofing, HVAC, and guttering. We are so pleased to announce that through generous partnerships from our community, the Lexington Leadership Foundation and Craftsman Contractors, they donated a roof. And if you all know, roofs are expensive, and with their kind generosity, that project has been complete. So we now have a sound roof on the building. It is beautiful. It has already made the building stand out even grander than it set as it was. So we are very excited about that. But now we're ready to move into the next phases of some of those critical needs. Because without those critical needs being met, we cannot provide the resources and the programming that we want to for the community and for Lexington. So the building has, if you can remember, 1892, there were no central air and heating and all those good things. So there is an old boiler that does not work. Maybe one day we'll encase it and it's a historic point that people can see on a tour. but we really need a central HVAC system so that we can contain or maintain a steady climate throughout the year. So in the hot summer months, we don't have to sweat inside or freeze when it gets cold. As we're in Lexington, the weather varies quite a bit, and we would like to be consistent in our community in that building. Can't do it without the HVAC. And then the roofing does need some additional guttering needs. We have worked with some companies on some quotes and information so can provide more details on that as needed. So we have three big asks today, right? And I brought my board members because they know a lot more about the history because we have some that have been on this board for over 40 years. So that information and wealth of knowledge is amazing. But we want to renew our partnership with the city. There has, in previous years, there was a great partnership relationship, but we haven't had one in recent years. So we would love the opportunity to renew those relationships with you all. And then as I mentioned in detail, addressing the critical needs of the building, just so that we can be functional. So we can do the things that will provide service and help to those in Lexington. And then the third ask is to fund the new redevelopment feasibility study. It is our goal to do a full renovation of this building. Construction prices continue to rise. We all know that is really expensive and with a board that is working really hard and has done a lot of work for this center, we are asking for your help and partnership in funding that study. So with a full redevelopment feasibility study, it will let us know exactly what we need to make this happen with our plans and goals of redesigning the center. And it is to be noted that previously, the council did contribute to the past study and repairs that were done in the 1990s. So the building did go under a phase one reconstruction, first floor in around 2000. So some work was done in the building, the second floor untouched since the children left and the attic space is an unfinished attic. It is beautiful, y'all have to come and see it. Yeah, so, and I'll just go ahead and note The things that we really want to do with this building and we're going to need the help to do, we've kind of broken into four different places. So to create an event space for the center, professional office space rentals for non-profit and for-profit organizations, of course, additional programming for the Robert H. Williams Culture Center, and creating a professional kitchen and marketplace for the community. So I thank you for your time and attention to the Robert H. Williams Culture Center. I could talk all day about this. Some of you all know. They know. But that concludes my presentation. If you have questions or. But thank you for your time. Thank you, Dora, for the presentation. And thank you, board members, for being here. And, you know, I think, council members, if you have any questions, please log in. First up is Council Member Lynch. Thank you, Chair, for recognition since I do not serve on this committee. Thank you, Tora, for a great presentation. And my only questions are, what are the dates for your homecoming? Because I want to make sure to support and attend you all. This building is right next door to my district, the second district, literally across the street. So I would love to attend your homecoming. So do you have dates and times for the homecoming? Tentative date, last year it was the third Saturday in October. So I will confirm that with you. but it is towards the end of October. And we are always looking for great partners. We had vendors. I taught a free dance class to the kids. We had someone come out and teach a class to the adults. We had a phone machine. It was just a good time, a good time in the neighborhood. Oh, oh, how can I forget? We had a car show. Our car show was a huge hit. Old school cars parked on the front lawn, and it was just a good time for everybody. Please do, and if you all have a flyer for your event, I would love to share that on my council social media as well as my newsletter to help spread the word too. Done. And then what are the hours on your read and play that you have? Yeah, so the last Saturday of each month, it is 12 to 2. It's an open hour, and we have snacks and drinks for the kids, but it's an opportunity for them to come in the space. It's the cutest little room. It's two rooms and we have gotten so many donations from the community. People come into my job and drop me boxes of books. So anything that we can do for the kids, it's been great. Awesome. Thank you for all that you're doing and the board. For what you're doing, I know that my district and my neighbors will definitely benefit from it as well. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Thank you, Council Member Lynch. Next is Council Member Reynolds. Thank you, Chair. And I just want to say thank you for coming before us, Tora, and presenting this, and thank you, Council Member Fogel, for bringing this before us. I think it's a wonderful project and that you're working so hard to preserve an important part of history. Could you expound a little bit on exactly how the space is being used right now? I see the programming, but is there programming there every day? How much of the space is being used? Yeah, so right now we're really limited. As you all know, it's 100 plus degrees outside. So guess how hot it is inside our building. It is really hot. So we don't have anything that can control the temperature in there. But however, we are getting creative with how we're using this space. So like I said, we do have a group that is going to be renting the grounds in the next couple weeks. They're hosting, I think it's a health fair. It's a community health fair that's going to be having, they were scheduled to have it this coming Saturday, but with pending weather, they moved it back a week. And then with the Reading Play Library, just to have something in the building, we can control temperature for a short period of time. So which is why it's so critical for us to get that need met, because we have at least 6,000 square feet that we can currently operate in. But without control of heat, it would make it uncomfortable and maybe unsafe for some of the people that would visit. Thank you so much for explaining that in more detail so I get a better picture of it. Thank you. But we're getting creative. We're still doing things there as much as we absolutely can. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Council Member Reynolds. Next is Council Member Gray. Unless. No, go ahead. Sorry. Thank you, Chair. unless I was going to say unless someone else that's on the committee has a question oh he has jokes today everybody thank you chair for allowing me to speak I appreciate you now on here Tora Carter thank you for your presentation and thank you to the members of the board who are present and even those who are not here thank you for the work that you're doing and especially to you, Ms. Teresa Cerce, who is a resident, a proud resident of the 6th District. Thank you for your service. I do appreciate you. So you spoke about several items requiring funds, such as do you have a cost for how much the HVAC system and the other necessary items cost? Well, and Mr. Rinson may be able to help me on this one, But the issue that we found when asking for quotes on the HVAC, because there is a boiler, everyone's like, we don't do that. We don't do that. So we're being met with a lot of opposition and just getting the information to get a quote. Because the building is so old, it's going to require a specialized company to come in and do it. I think the company that Ms. Renson had spoke to previously, they're not even in Lexington. So not many Lexington companies even wanted to help us with getting quotes. Is that accurate? Yes. Yeah. So you all have, let me understand, a boiler, which is outdated and nonfunctional, and we're not finding anyone in our vicinity in this area that is able to do so. That's correct. Okay. Yeah. What were your other needs? I know originally it was the roof, but that is taken care of. Thank God. We're just so excited. Christian Postel from the Lexington Leadership Foundation and his partner at Craftsman Contractors worked with a national organization to donate materials, and Craftsman Contractors came in locally and did the work. It was a sight to see. We have great footage and photos of that as well. But it was just so great to have those local entities come in and help us on that. So the roof is done. We had a hole in the roof. There was, you know, critters come in, the weather was taking a hit on the building. And this building has to be preserved. It is full of history. And I cannot wait to even give you even more information on the history and what we want to do to preserve the history of the city. And you mentioned earlier when we were speaking about a feasibility study. Absolutely. So with that study, we really want to know exactly how much it's going to cost, what needs to happen for the building. We want to do it the best way possible. And with the help of the city, with getting funding to do this study, we will know exactly what's it going to cost, what's it going to take, what is the best way that this building can continue to serve the city. And do you know how much this feasibility study costs? i i'm under the impression we're probably about 300 000 for a full study 300 okay okay thank you thank you thank you so much thank you council member gray next we have a council member dave savigny thank you chair even though i'm not on this committee i appreciate you recognizing me How do you all manage ADA compliance? Can people get into the building and out? We can. So in 2000, there was a ramp that was put onto the back of the building. Was that? That's accurate. So there's a ramp in the back of the building. We only currently use the first floor. So the ramp is accessible to first floor. We don't allow anyone up to the second floor. And the basement, we don't do any programming out of the basement currently. So for ADA compliance currently, we do have a ramp full accessible for anyone. But that is to be addressed as we move forward with this building. It will need full ADA compliance. Yeah. And how many square feet on each floor? We're looking at about 16,000 square feet for the entire building. and it's about 4,000 each floor. So we have a basement, the first floor we currently operate out of, the second floor that's been untouched since the children left in 88, and the unfinished beautiful attic space. I can't wait for y'all to see it. Y'all have to come and see it. Field trip. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Council Member. Anybody else? Before I turn it back over to you, Council Member Fogle, I just want to thank Tor again And Ms. Searcy, the board chair, and other board members for being here and all their work in this space into this building. I think I grew up off of Georgetown Street, and this building has always been a part of my life. I remember playing basketball, the basketball courts behind it, back when safe places were a thing. I remember the safe place sign being in that building. I think it's still there, and I've always considered that a safe place. And I found out when we were doing Douglas Park Centennial, the folks that advocated for Douglas Park to be a park for Lexington's African American community were also the same players that organized to make this building come to fruition. So this is a part of Lexington's history. And when we talk about gentrification and displacement, and a lot of the displacement that we talk about is the displacement of history. And if we can do something or do all we can to make sure that this history doesn't get erased or displaced, I think that's one way that we can help address gentrification and displacement of communities and their history. The other thing I'll point out is just the partnership that you're here to ask for. I know there's been several organizations that have done good work throughout this community that have been stationed at that building at some point or another that impacted a lot of children. One that was on the slide that you didn't mention was Central Music Academy. They were there. That's a diverse constituency group. The Urban League was in that building at some point. So I think if we can work with you all and renew that partnership and make it a space that other partners can come and be in and be right in the middle of the community, I think we need to. And then also the previous funding. So there is a history of the city partnering and spending funds on that building. and one for the plan and then for other critical needs like sprinkler system, I think, was one of the things mentioned, and then also remediating environmental hazards. So, council members, I don't think there's going to be an ask today, but I think there's going to be some consideration during the fund balance discussion in the months to come. So with that, I'll turn it over to Council Member Fogel. Thank you, Chair. It has been my pleasure. Before we move on, I see Commissioner is in the room. He has a lot of history connecting to, and if you would like to say a few words, I'd like to just recognize you being here because I know we've had conversation. And as Commissioner Ford, who is here, would you like to say a few words? Good afternoon, Councilor. Thank you, Councilmember Fogel. all i will say is i'm just delighted just as the council and our administration are to hear the good works of the robert h williams senatora mr in the board of doing invaluable work and we just appreciate uh... take the time to share that with us and look forward to what the future may bring for the west and for all of lexington thank you and uh... uh... chairperson brown thank you for talking about the gentrification of history. As we African Americans in Lexington have witnessed, there's a lot of our history that has been erased and some over in the south side of town in like Davis Bottom and now Prawl Town is on the table and the history behind Douglas and up in the east end of town Esmodale and the projects over so there's a lot of history including the Palmer the first farmers and on Georgetown Street and just like Councilmember Lynch said it kisses the second district and we have the Black Williams Center there but the performing arts you know we have the lyric on the east end but on the west end and if anybody knows anything about territory in Lexington, sometimes the West End people did not travel to the East End and they did not travel to the West End. It's something about that territorial. But for the people and the children over in the West End of town, which would be open to everyone in Lexington, but there is a richness that's missing because this building has been setting and whatever has taken place that could take place in that building. And plus, you guys, the green space, there is so much green space for planting and growing. And we have black soil who's interested. We can have gardens and flowers and just the beautification of the West End part of town. So we know we've got that swimming pool coming. And so after they jump out of that swimming pool, they can go and do some ballerina dancing down at the Robert H. Williams Culture Center. But this is a serious issue, and I hope that you all will support the funding or whatever the council can do to move this project forward. And it would be remiss of me not to say thank you, Council Member Worley, because, like I said, I was new and nervous when I brought this. And Councilmember Rorley helped me put these into committee and helped me use the language that was needed so that we could get to this point. So I want to just recognize you and say thank you for that. And then Councilmember Brown and Commissioner has guided me along the way. So I look forward to the reopening, the grand opening, and the homecoming of the Robert H. William Culture Center. So thank you for your presentation. Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Fogel, for your comments and thank you for your work on this item. And thank you, Tor, for your presentation. All right. Thank you all so much for your time. We really appreciate it. Thank you. All right, committee members, going back to our agenda, the next item on today's agenda is undue medical debt. And I'll turn it over to Vice Mayor Wu to give an introduction. Thank you, Chair. I'm very excited about this presentation. It's been about a year in the making now, and it's also a little bit different of a presentation than we normally have. As you can see, it's over teams, so I'll first encourage council members when it's time for questions and comments to speak very clearly and loudly into your mics so that folks on remote can hear us. So I appreciate the opportunity in this committee to give this presentation. I want to thank Councilmember Shayla Lynch along with a lot of city staff that came to an info session earlier this summer. We had about 35 people participate all across the medical field, nonprofit field here in Lexington. So undue medical debt, formerly known as RIP Medical Debt, is a national 501c3 that works to erase medical debt in this country. And I don't think I have to tell most of us why that's an important issue, especially in Kentucky as we are one of the poorest and one of the sickest states in the country. So this project, this idea, and this potential partnership with undue medical debt is going to work to not only relieve medical debt here in Fayette County, but also to keep people out of medical debt in the future. And I think it's a potentially transformative project. So without further ado, I'm going to hand it over to Eva Marie Stahl, who is the Vice President of Public Policy and Program Management at Undue Medical Debt. Welcome, Eva. Thank you so much for having me. And I'm going to also speak clearly and loudly, so hopefully everybody can hear me, but certainly let me know if you cannot. I'm privileged to be here. Thank you for having me. And I'm going to share my screen and just walk you through what we do, right, to give you a better sense of our model, how we have worked with government in the past, and then create some space for you to ask questions. Okay. So as I mentioned, we are undue medical debt. We are 501c3. That means that we are a national nonprofit. We work in states across the country and in local jurisdictions. We're funded by faith-based groups, by individuals, by foundations, another corporations, as well as most recently working in partnership with government. We were founded about 10 years ago by actually two debt collectors who wanted to flip the script on debt collection and purchase debt not to collect, but purchase debt to abolish and erase. In 2020, we received a sizable grant from Mackenzie Scott. This helped us build our infrastructure, what we call our data engine, that allows us to move this medical debt data through our system and identify people eligible for our program and let them know that they are no longer responsible for their medical debts. So let's just talk a moment about why medical debt is a problem. Many of you probably know, read about this, maybe even talk about it with your family, with a neighbor, because it does affect everyone. It's a different kind of debt, right? Medical debt is not a debt of choice. It's a debt of necessity, right? And it's well known that most households just don't have the savings to manage a surprise bill of $500 or more. We also know that medical debt disproportionately affects people of color. It creates a lot of stress for people. It's a leading cause of bankruptcy. It's identified as what we call a social determinant of health. And many patients with this debt delay care that they need so they don't go back to the doctor, right? And these problems exist even when providers stop doing their billing because it sits in the mind and in the drawers and dresser drawers the bills do for people that keep them from seeking the care that they need. It also has real economic impacts for communities, right? So when we talk to our constituents and in PETA surveys throughout the country, we hear about households that are making choices across food and housing and medical care, right? Or they're using up all of their savings. So they're diverting their energy both economically and mentally toward these medical debts. So by disrupting this cycle, we actually can be helpful to the economic health of the community as well as that of the individual. So medical debt currently does live on people's credit reports. This is data from the Urban Institute that tracks medical debt in collections. So people are being pursued for these debts. And it's only a small snapshot. And that's because many providers actually don't report medical debt to credit reports, but many do. And so this is what it looks like for your community. It gives you a little bit of sense of where you sit relative to the state of Kentucky and to the nation itself. But medical debt is clearly a challenge in Kentucky, particularly for households of color, and still is a significant number of people that are affected by it. So how do we work? So we have two criteria. We keep it very simple. We help people that live at 400 percent of the federal poverty level or below, or if their medical bills are more than five percent of their household income. So we work with low-income populations. We are able to identify when we bring down the files, we're able to identify what their income level is, and that allows us to determine whether or not they qualify for our program. When we work with government partners, we also have a residency requirement so that government funds are only paying off the debts of residents of their own community. And then we send out letters to those individuals to let them know they're free and clear of the medical debt. So for every dollar that's appropriated, it abolishes about $100 worth of medical debt. So what's appealing and attractive about this type of program is that medical debt is cheap, right? There's a good return on investment. And what we do is we contract usually with a jurisdiction or a government agency, and then we go about the process of recruiting hospitals, physicians, practices, and others to sell us their medical debt at market price. We request these data files from them. We run an algorithm and do data analysis to determine whether they meet our criteria. And then once we acquire the medical debt, we can send out letters notifying all of the recipients whether or not which of their files have been abolished, provided by the hospital or the physician group. And then we invoice the government for those costs. And then we also, through that process of notification, can share resources with individuals in the community, letting them know about additional resources where they might enroll in coverage, where they might be connected to social supports, and other programs that would mitigate future harm of medical debt. Here's an example of these medical debt relief initiatives that are in process or already established across the country. We actually just signed a contract in St. Paul, Minnesota, and we are going through the final stages with St. Louis, Missouri. And then we do a number in several states statewide across the country. But this gives you a little bit of a flavor of the different jurisdictions that we're working with. Cook County, Illinois, was the first jurisdiction that approached us about using government funds to abolish medical debt. And we're just about to enter into a third year in contract with them. So it's really a unique win-win-win solution is the way that we think about it, because the patient benefits, because they no longer owe those medical debts, and they can return without fear to see their physician or get the care that they need. They also can access maybe resources that they didn't know existed to help them find supports that they might need to manage either economic, financial situations in their households and find programming, or to find medical care through a community health center, or enrolling coverage that they didn't know was an option. It also helps address the social determinative health, so the community benefits writ large. It can help the local economy by freeing up dollars that people are devoting toward unpaid medical bills that they can't afford and redirect them toward economic revitalization or investment. And it also just helps the hospital and the provider system by taking this medical debt off their books. So once a bill goes through the debt cycle, so if an unpaid bill goes unpaid for a certain period of time, and a hospital or a physician's group has made a reasonable effort to collect on those unpaid bills, and they no longer are getting any response from the patient, those bills will actually just sit on their books as bad debt. So those are the files that we purchase and review. So it also can really be a boost for a hospital and the provider workforce, knowing that their institution made an effort to invest in their community. And here's just an example just to give you a flavor of how this impacts individuals themselves. So these are patients that receive medical debt abolishment. And you can just see from their stories that sometimes these things happen to people and they never expect them. They're not prepared. It creates a tremendous amount of stress and burden for people. So it's a huge lift to have this abolishment happen for them. So it's just it gives you a little bit of flavor. And one of the nice things out of this process, too, is that it does, we do receive a lot of stories from individuals in your community. So it's also an opportunity to learn more from your community members about what they're struggling with. That data can be really important, sort of informing new initiatives, but also connecting government to residents and in terms of, you know, we're doing this as a part of our community efforts because we care about you. Providers, too, have good things to say and are pleased with the process. So this is about sort of, you know, helping them sort of clear their books, but also, I think, reengaging them in understanding what even unpaid bills, when they're not being pursued, how that affects their patients and opens up doors for them to return for care. So let me stop sharing because I know that's a lot and I wanted to create space because it can be a complicated thing sometimes to understand to answer questions that you might have. All right. Thank you for the presentation. Committee members, do you have any questions? And I'll just remind you to speak up and speak clearly due to the team's meeting. First, it looks like we have Council Member Ellinger. Thank you, Chair, and thank you for presenting this information to us. Can you go through the process of how they go to the hospitals and how they do, do they negotiate then with the, because they prefer to be paid than if somebody files for bankruptcy. So I assume that it would be to their benefit to try to negotiate these, and how do you go about doing that? Sure. So maybe the best way to start would—oh, can you hear me okay? Yes. So why don't I start from the beginning? So when somebody goes to the hospital and they receive a service and then, say, for example, their insurance kicks in and they have a balance and they can't afford that balance, The hospital will bill the patient maybe three times and try to engage them, perhaps in a payment plan to see what's affordable or see if they're eligible for their financial assistance program. However, many patients don't respond, so they might fall through the cracks. So once they fall through the cracks, then a hospital would then pivot and use a collection agency, which might be contracted with them. So the hospital still owns the debt, and their collection agency on their behalf tries to collect on those bills. They might do that for a certain period of time, maybe six to eight, ten months. But for those bills that they can't collect on because people can't afford them, right, those actually still are owned by the hospital. But the hospital then has made a reasonable effort to collect on those bills, and they cannot collect on them. So those bills actually then move into what they refer to as bad debt. And so that debt sits on their accounting books. So at that juncture, a hospital has a choice. They could sell that medical debt to a debt buyer, or they could sell that medical debt to us, which we will pay market price, commensurate with a debt buyer, which is pennies on the dollar, or they can just let it sit on their books and hold on to it. So our proposal when we go to hospitals is sell the debt to us, a charity. let us take the debt off your books, and we're going to run criteria to make sure that we're only helping those that are most in need. And then once we identify those individuals, we only purchase that portfolio of debt from the hospital. We transfer the files after a purchase agreement, and then we send out letters to patients to notify them of their debt relief. Thank you. That was very informative. And I guess that's where on page 35, where it talked about what you contract with the government agency, then you recruit the hospitals, and then that's when you go through the data files, and then you find the ones that fall within the parameters that you all have required. That's exactly right. Thank you. That explains it well. Thank you. Thank you, Council Member. Any other Council Members have questions? Council Member Baxter. Thank you, Chair. I just want to ask a clarifying follow-up. So if we were thinking about how much medical debt is in Fayette County itself, the process that you just explained would be what we would go through at each individual medical facility to find out how much debt is in our community. Is that correct? So it's somewhat correct. So the way that we usually work is that we can do a broad assessment using sort of estimations of how much debt is in your community. It is not guaranteed that we can access all of that debt because providers have to work with us willingly in partnership. So when we approach a hospital and they decide to partner with us, which obviously many do, then they will let us know how much bad debt is on their books that they are willing to share with us. And at that point, then we would go through the process of seeing how many people qualify and then what the price of that debt would be. And then the invoice would come at the end to invoice the government to pay pennies on the dollar for that debt. It is an inexact science to be able to figure out how much medical debt is out there, and that's because it lives in many places and the data is very poor. So as you probably have had this experience, many people will just pull out their credit card, right, and swipe it for a copay. But that's debt that is now financial debt. It's no longer medical debt. So the only debt that's accessible in this particular context would be going to a hospital and asking them, what are your unpaid medical bills that are now siphoned off to bad debt that we could access? The second option is to look at the secondary debt market. And those are debt buyers that have purchased debt. That debt is older. We prefer to work with hospitals and physician groups because it's younger debt, and we want to be closer to that point of care for the patient so they're worrying and stressing for less time. But those are the two options you have to access medical debt. But it's somewhat imperfect, but you can get a general sense from the amount that's in collections, which you can see that data is available, and looking sort of through the cost reporting of hospital systems, et cetera, to get a general idea of how much debt is out there. And then your success is really about the willingness of the partners you engage with. Thank you. That really helps a lot. And then can you also – well, I had the question, and there it went. I can't remember what I was going to say, so I'm so sorry. If I think of it, I will come back. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Council Member. Next, we have Council Member Plowman. Thank you, Chair. So the whole process is really hospital-driven with a contract between you all and the hospital. And they control what the patients or the families that are in need. That's what they give you. Does an individual ever get involved with their own situation, like working with the hospital to be part of what they acquire? So not as a part of our process. I would say more broadly, the answer is yes. Many individuals will advocate for themselves to either address these debts one by one. The beauty of our process is it does not require any individual action. We purchase this debt in bulk. And yes, we do strive to focus on hospital systems. But also keep in mind that when you get a hospital bill, you also may get a physician bill. So we try to get not just the hospital debt, but also the physician debt, as well as in New Orleans, for example, we just did ambulance debt. So there are multiple places where we could access medical debt. And we like to work in partnership with jurisdictional leaders that have access to those connections and networks to bring on those partners for us. So really the individuals or the families do not have the knowledge that they're being looked at for relief? So, they are, so individuals live in these bad debt files, right, with unpaid medical bills. And so, those are purchased. It's a standard form of practice to third-party contracts. I get it. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Council. Thank you, Council Member. Next, we have Council Member Savigny. Thank you, Chair. Thank you so much for the presentation. I've got a quick few questions. generally though at the point where you may be purchasing the debt you mentioned like to be honest with you in a lot of cases it's already been reported to a credit agency I would believe so it's already kind of done its damage so to speak on someone's credit and how do you mitigate the damage that has been done or do you not do that and it's just you're strictly trying to clean the debt? Sure. So I would say two things about that. The first is that we actually work with many hospitals, particularly our safety net hospitals that do not report medical debt to credit reports. So that's a non-issue for them. But for those who do. One of the requirements of our agreement is that those medical debt marks are removed. So it does depend provider to provider of whether or not they engage in that practice. We do hear from our constituents that having the medical debt removed from their credit score, even though, as you noted, the damage has been done, really can change their credit score and open up access to new economic opportunity, whether that's access to a loan for a car or renting a home. Those are the types of stories and feedback that we get. And then I would also just say that in terms of mitigating future harm, I think that that's done in partnership with the jurisdiction to think about what are the resources and supports that the community provides that people may not have access to or know about, that we can be a vehicle through which you can elevate those. Thank you. And then my next question is, what's your cost structure? I mean, basically, how much actually goes towards what percentage of what you collect from jurisdictions goes towards paying debt and what goes to supporting your organization? Sure. So, as I mentioned, our return on investment is $1 for $100 of medical debt. And our administrative overhead or administrative costs are with government jurisdictions are around 10 percent. Okay. And are you – is there – do you have competitors in this area, or is there only one entity that can physically do this? Currently, we are the only nonprofit that does this work. Thank you. That's all I have, Chair. Thank you, Council Member. Thank you, Chair. Told you it would come back to me. Curious, after the debt is identified, what is the time frame? From the time that you contract with a jurisdiction, what does that look like from start to end? Sure, that's a great question. So that also can depend on the willingness of the provider partners to come to the table. But it can range from anywhere from four to eight months, depending on how quickly we can move into those partnerships. Of note, when you work with a hospital or a physician's system, and I'm sure this makes sense to all of you, we also need to make sure that we're protecting patient privacy. So we do go through a business associates agreement and a nondisclosure act so that we can make sure that hospitals feel confident working with us and that patient data is protected. We also have worked very hard over the past several years and invested in very robust cybersecurity for that reason. So that can take a little bit of time to get through that. But once we access the data and we've run the criteria and take on and own that data through a purchase agreement, those letters can move within several weeks. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Ellinger. Thank you, Chair. You say pennies on the dollar. What's the average that usually that you pay of the debt? Did you say one for 100? That's correct, one for 100. And can you limit the fields that would just be for county residents if we did this through the government? So only people who are. Yes, sir. Okay. And the patient doesn't find out until after the debt's been paid off. Is that correct? That's correct. when they receive a letter in the mail, which is also why we work with local partners to make sure that we're elevating the program so people know to take the letter seriously and open them. And then finally, what is the, usually how much is the government usually providing that you've worked with? I know different governments are different in size, but percentage on, say, there's 100,000 in the community, what percentage, because Chicago's obviously going to be bigger than Lexington. Do you have it? Correct. So I'd have to get back to you on the percentages of how that works. But, you know, the examples can run the gamut, right? I mean, we work with some jurisdictions that work with maybe $100,000 to some that go up to several million. So Cook County, for example, is $12 million over three years. The state of Arizona is $20 million over three years. But there are much smaller jurisdictions and counties that, you know, we work with a small county in Ohio that's 30 in Oberlin, Ohio, that's $30,000. So it really runs the gamut. And we work closely with you to look at what we call the pipeline, to look at the provider landscape together to see kind of what where we can access the debt. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councilmember. Next, we have Councilmember Lagree. Thank you, Chair. this is a bit of a follow-up on some of these comparative cities and the previous question that was just asked with some of the municipalities that you all have worked with in the past has this been like a one-time initiative or have you worked with cities where they make perhaps like one large investment and then they allocate additional funding in subsequent years? That's also a great question. And I would say that the work is so new that we haven't reached that juncture yet. But I think the one to watch will be Cook County, because that's our longest standing jurisdiction that we've worked with. And that ends in a year or so. So we're doing some evaluative work with them right now for them to think about, you know, does this make sense for them to do more than once? I would say for many jurisdictions, though, this is a one-time investment that's used as a launchpad to have much broader conversations around how to shift policy upstream because we're not a policy solution, right? We're disrupting a really negative cycle for people, but it opens up opportunity to think and hear from people about their challenges to try and find policy solutions that make sense. Absolutely. Thank you so much. That makes a lot of sense. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councilmember. Next, we have Vice Mayor Wools. Thank you, Eva, for the presentation. I'm glad my colleagues got to hear in depth of how you all do this. And I wanted to ask two sort of follow-ups to clarify. When I first started talking to Undo Medical Debt about a year ago, over a year ago, you all had a ballpark estimate for Fayette County that was $1.6 million. Is that still correct? So, yeah, that's an estimate of the date, all the debt in your county. Okay. And then just to clarify, $1.6 million is what we would need to provide to relieve that debt. The actual debt being held is somewhere around 100 times that, around $160 million or more. I think that that is, like anything, an estimate, and that we will do a provider sweep again, as we do multiple times throughout the year to see which systems are open to working with us. But yeah, it does take a dent in your medical debt landscape. Thank you for that. And you touched on a point that I wanted to talk about was kind of what happens after the relief of the debt. As you said, your partnerships with a lot of cities and municipalities and states are fairly new, you would say about you've been working with folks a couple of years probably, not that long. So we're all kind of really new in this process. And one of the things that we've thought a lot about is what happens after this relief, right? What happens after people get a letter in the mail that says this X amount of money that you owe to Central Baptist or to St. Joe or whoever is relieved, now what, right? These are communities that are very susceptible to fall right back into medical debt for various reasons. And you've talked a little bit about, as you all have grown your programming, to start really thinking about that and really thinking about that with cities and municipalities. Can you speak on that a little bit? Sure. So some of the ways that we are partnering with cities is to connect people, for example, with financial counselors, some of the programs that they have in the city. So other supports would include connecting people, for example, in states if they don't have access to Medicaid or to other enrollment options, so navigators and enrollers. Other ways we've supported people is connecting them to community health centers that maybe have more affordable care so that they know that they have other options, perhaps, than what they've pursued in the past. That's just on the sort of testing different tactics and strategies with cities on the service side. I would also say that what is unique about our work is that we provide data back to the hospital system itself. So the hospital can actually review the debt files that we have purchased and understand where the income brackets like what is who are the people in our files. Right. What are what are their income levels? We also share data with government partners around zip code, race, ethnicity, age, gender. So it also gives you a flavor of where is the debt concentrated and are there maybe areas in your community that need more support that you didn't know about. So those are just some of the ways that we're kind of testing different ways we can support and mitigate harm upstream. Yeah, and thank you for that. And during our info session a few months ago, we had a whole bunch of local partners in the room to kind of establish these relationships and kind of talk about, like, what does post-relief look like? Undue medical debt can take care of the actual relief part with all these negotiations with the hospital systems. But then the rest of it is mostly up to us as a community between local government and various partnerships, including the hospital systems, but also nonprofits and other organizations. So I hope, colleagues, you will support me in this project. This is going to come in the form of an ask during fund balance in a couple of months. And between now and then, I've spoken to a lot of you already, and I'll certainly speak to everybody about this project. So thank you again, Eva, for the presentation, and we look forward to working with you. Thanks so much for the opportunity. it looks like council member ellinger you have a question about this i do i'm sorry um no you're fine i'm asking for the third time which is against council rule so i pardon i hope you all it'll be quick but it was brought up you said 1.6 million how many residents of fayette county will that um be take it in that in that then so i'll have to go back and pull those numbers for you because I don't have them in front of me, but I'll definitely do that and share that with Vice Mayor Wu. Thank you. Okay. All right, any other questions? Seeing none, thank you, Vice Mayor Wu, for that presentation. And we'll go back to our agenda, and the next item is items referred to committee. So I would entertain any actions on those items. Council Member Savigny? I don't actually, I hit this for the other item in a different spot. Thank you, Chair. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Council Member Reynolds? I would like to remove the Agriculture Director update from committee. All right. A motion was made to remove item number 15, the Agriculture Director update. are there any questions to that motion seeing none all those in favor please say aye any opposed none that item that motion passes any other items on the items referred list that need to be addressed not seeing any so with that it brings us to the end of our agenda I'll entertain a motion to adjourn All right, a motion was made to adjourn and second it. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Seeing none, that motion passes. We're adjourned. Thank you. I will go through all this pain Take a bullet straight through my brain Yes, I will die for you, baby But you won't do the same