["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] ["We Wish You a Merry Christmas"] So really, it's about this sort of sense of arrival and how that sculpture is positioned on the site. So this is as you're coming up North Limestone, heading towards Noli. And the idea is that Lewis and Harriet Hayden have their hands pushing out towards due north. So Lexington is on a bit of a cant. So this really worked very well for us. So they can be positioned facing north, so you're getting a side-on view as you're coming up North Lime. But North Limestone Street was one of the original underground railroad routes. You would take it all the way, it becomes Maysville Road, and it takes you all the way up to the Ohio border. I didn't know that before we started this project, so this is a very interesting piece of history for me, and we're hoping to provide that on the site so that everyone else can understand how important this route was. So as you can see, this is sort of this view that you get, and the idea then is that you're supposed to walk around the Haydens and kind of view them from all angles. And as you can see, from every position on the intersection, it still holds a place of prominence. They're set 30 inches. The base of the statue is set 30 inches sort of above ground level, so they're kind of floating above you in a place of prominence. You're always looking up at them. The other thing that I think is really interesting that we've added in here is this timeline feature, this sort of bronze zigzag that's going through here. And so the idea is that in this inset material, we'll be allowed to put a timeline of both their life and of the history of Lexington somewhat. So we'll talk about early Lexington, then we'll talk about their birth, their death, what they did in their abolitionist life, and then sort of posthumous recognition of how important both of them were to the Underground Railroad movement. The other piece that we have in there is the story wall. This will probably appear in a slightly different form. What's important to note is on the corner here will be the Frank X. Walker poem that he wrote specifically about Lewis Hayden. So that will be there engraved on this stone. And then on the back side of this stone, we'll also have opportunities for plaques for additional informational signage. Another piece that's really exciting for us, it's a little hard to see here, you'll see it in a minute, but inset into the ground will be small LED lights that at night are illuminated to represent the Big and Little Dipper. Because during escape through the Underground Railroad, oftentimes they navigated via the North Star and via the Big and Little Dipper. So we thought that that would be a nice way to highlight the site both during the day and at night. The other thing that's available, obviously this gets paid for somehow, and so we want to highlight everyone that will make this site and this memorial possible. So that's done through a few different ways. There's a series of bricks that lead out to the sidewalk, and those will be sort of our donor pavers, and those can be put in and engraved at various phases of the project, but that's for the smaller donations. And then there's a donor stone, which is much more significant, and that will have sort of the large thank you laid out there. The sculptural base and all of those big pieces that you see are, of course, going to be out of limestone, out of native material, so we've looked into some local quarries to source that stone. I think that's where we ended this. So let me go back in case there are any questions. So like I said, that is sort of where we are at. The other thing that I wanted to show you all, so the plantings here and along the back edge are going to be inkberry and azalea, so they're a very low maintenance and will kind of fill in to create almost a low maintenance carpet that's evergreen out there. So we're very much thinking about the operations and maintenance of this site. We are also thinking about the fact that we've got this, what we're calling the learning lawn back here, and that is sort of a connection to both LTMS, assuming that the students can come out here and have some classrooms, but also that this will be a stop on an underground railroad tour throughout Kentucky and throughout the region. So we need sort of a spot for people to mingle and gather. That is where we are at at the moment. Impactful and beautiful. Well done. Forever how far along you are, it looks great. Right now we are working with a geotechnical engineer to do some soil testing where we finally position the statue, hopefully on Saturday, so that we can be sure of the appropriate base that we'll need to place the statue. Great stability for a long time. Very good. Comments, questions, anyone? Beautiful presentation. I just want to thank you so much for this. As a former educator, I just appreciate all the educational opportunities that it allows for kids. There are so many schools that are walkable to this site, as well as our whole community. I'm a little curious about why you were thinking about positioning it closer to the intersection. That was actually a request by the artist. He's asking if we can move it closer to have even more of a place of prominence, especially as you're coming across on 4th Street. He doesn't want it to get missed by the users of the Legacy Trail. So we're trying to strike the right balance of bringing it closer, but also not getting it so close that if we've seen, especially on Town Branch Trail out there, that if you have a driver they will drive off the road at some point. Thank you. Others? I have a question. Yes, please. I am curious about that. If you move it, does that mess it up being in that little timeline area that it's supposed to be in? So we think that there is a way to slide it along the edge of the timeline and to adjust the timeline around it. So that's why I'm saying that the pieces and parts will all be out there. They just might need some tweaking. I just want to echo what George has said. This is a really exciting and beautiful context for the statue. We're really excited both for the project itself that we supported, but then also this overall plan. I think it's going to be really wonderful. And as someone that drives past this or bikes past this or walks past this every day, I'm particularly excited about it. So thank you. Just a couple of questions. So the information that is in the sidewalk, is it etched in? Is it dug in kind of? Yes. It will be etched in. And then in the learning lawn, what is the structure that's kind of in the trees back there? So there's actually an existing retention basin that's back there, or detention basin, I should say. Yes, ma'am. So we're working with Fay County Public Schools to see. We're trying not to encroach on that too much, but I think that there is a way to naturalize that a bit more. I think that's good work. That's all good work. Excellent. We don't need to sanction anything today other than tell them to get it done. Well, we do for them to be able to get their payment. So I think this is really beautiful, and I really appreciate and thank you for all the thought put into this whole site plan. I have one weird question that just had occurred to me, and I never had asked. Who maintains that lawn right now? Does Fayette County Schools mow it? Okay. I wasn't sure where Fayette County ends and, like, the city begins on that. Yeah, and I'm not sure currently now that Parks and Recreation actually controls that corner, but I think at the moment there's a bit of an agreement between them. There's the same people that mow the whole thing, because I just live across the street. I'm sorry? It's the same people that mow the whole area, because I just live across the street. The whole school area? Yeah. Okay. We have a meeting set with Parks and Recreation on Friday to discuss with them, you know, how this works. You know, we think that it would be appropriate for the committee to start thinking about raising money for a foundation just for some slight operations and maintenance costs over time, similar to what they've done on Town Branch Commons. Just it's a little extra to pay for, you know, that extra bit of maintenance that Parks and Rec is not standard in what they do. Well, what is required, you already are aware that there is money that has to go into a maintenance fund. And so I guess, you know, so our role as a commission, and I'm sure you know from being within the city, there are no maintenance people specified for handling art. And so that maintenance fund is what is going to help the commission determine and have the funding for when we need to contract out for someone to come in and maintain it. And so that's really the reason we asked you all to come back, was because there were questions regarding the actual determination of a 12,000 pound sculpture, and do we have the appropriate knowledge for knowing that it's not going to start sinking in the ground, and listing, and then the city is sort of trying to figure out how to deal with this some years after the fact. And so, you know, we've seen a number of pieces created, and then they're just left to be dealt with later, and it's very, very hard if that wasn't done on the front end, those plans. So I think those were some of the questions, and this is so beautiful, but I'm not sure we have those answers in this very beautiful plan. Well, and I think that that's part of the reason I wanted to come, is to provide reassurance that we are licensed landscape architects, and this is just the conceptual design phase. And so, you know, we're getting the soils testing. The next phase for us is the actual construction document phase, which is what we bring to the city to pull permits and everything. That is the standard course of how you design any site or monument. So, you know, based on whatever we get back from the soils, that is what we will use as the base footing for the sculpture. So I want to reassure you all that that's the intention, that's the goal behind it, that, you know, we pick the appropriate footing so that the sculpture stays there. You know, we have done a large number of monument projects. We're doing one right now in Mobile that is very similar. It's a memorial to all of the black and African-American baseball players that played in Alabama. And so we're putting in a whole series of bronze sculptures around the park. So I want to reassure you all that this is part of our due diligence, but, you know, we're here to assure you so that they can release the funds so that Basil can get the sculpture poured and keep moving on the process. But I'm happy to come back as many times as we need to talk to you all in the process. Then what sort of a motion do you have in mind, or do you have one? Well, I don't know. Does anyone else have any questions? Yeah, I have a question. Andrew? Is there a civil engineer involved? At this point, we're using the geotech, and then when we go into construction documents, we will pull in a civil for them. Okay. Oh, sorry. Didn't mean to interrupt. Basil has submitted a stamped civil engineering drawing for the foundation. This is beyond the scope of what public art commission has funded. Public art commission funding is going just to the sculpture itself. So that's really what we need to have moving forward so that we can release funds and keep the project going. But this plan shows where the sculpture is placed. There's two different discrepancies. On the overall site plan, you're showing it behind the property line. On that plan, it's within the property. It's on the right-of-way side, so it's in front of the property line. So I'm just trying to figure out which plan is correct because I'm seeing two different versions. I mean, these are beautiful renderings, but this isn't a site plan that gives me the information to assess the site, where the sculpture is being placed, what kind of impacts do we have to the right-of-way, what impacts do we have to that detention basin. It looks nice, but it's hard to determine where it's actually being placed. Sure. So that's just a discrepancy in the rendering. There's really two property lines because the property line that's shown on the plan view is the property line of the entire school property. The property line that's shown here is the 20-foot setback of the little piece at the corner that was given over by Fayette County Public Schools to Parks and Rec. So there's really two property lines that are here, and the sculpture sits right square in the middle of the- So that's a setback line. No, that is the property line that is shown- Is it within easement? Here is the property line. There's a parcel here that you're kind of not seeing. There's a very thin square parcel that is the parcel that we were given to design on. Right. So that was my question. Where is it actually located? Yeah, so the sculpture is placed within the easement that was given from the school district to the city to manage for this project. So it is within that parcel of land. Now, exactly where it gets placed along there is being determined on Friday when Basel is here because this is the initial placement that the landscape designers had suggested, and Basel is asking if we can move it a little closer to the intersection. So that will be determined on Friday. Once that exact location is determined, then the soil samples will be taken in that location. So that will provide us information about what's exactly underneath that spot, and it will be at that point that any adjustments will be made by the civil engineer on the design base. The shape of the base also, you'll notice in this rendering, is a little more angular, whereas the first base was oval. So the landscape designers liked the angular shape because it played off of some of the lines that they're using in that timeline. So that is a slight adjustment that we're going to go back and have addressed. But following this meeting and the soil samples, those final documents will come to public art commission for final approval, and it's my understanding that we can review those over e-mail and have that proceed forward at a faster clip. Does that answer your question? Yeah. I'm just curious because I saw a couple different things that were confusing. I do worry about sight lines, so if we do want to push it closer to the intersection, you have to worry about vehicles' visions looking past the sculpture. There's also a lot of utility coordination. We have overhead electric running along 4th Street. We have communication lines on Limestone. Also, Limestone's been resurfaced a ton, so you can see that the curb height is not exactly 6 inches. So I'm a little concerned about the drainage in that intersection. There's a lot of sight issues, is what I'm saying. We just want to be clear that I'd like to review something closer once we have a more finalized design. I know someone whose cars have been smashed at that intersection twice. I was astounded after Town Branch Commons was finished, the number of cars that run off into the. . . I really would take that very much into consideration when you're placing it, and I understand the artist wanting it. We all want it to have the best view possible, but that really is a real concern. I think that we wouldn't want it in a place where cars were going to constantly be hitting it. And that is a real problem. Honestly, I'm just astounded at what happens on Town Branch Commons, how many times they've already had to replace signs 20 feet off the road. Anyway. Just to add to that, I have a good friend that lives a block up from there, and has had two cars totaled in front of his house. Like the same person. Yes. Two different cars totaled. Well, that's right. You live right there. That's right. But on the other side of the street, I've never seen an accident on the other side of the street. Good. Yeah. Right. Yes, sir. Right. So I know I was making a joke about cars, but my real question is a little bit more for us. You said that we would approve $100,000 once we receive the site plans, which these are not quite site plans. But we feel like when we get the site plans after Friday or whenever that happens, that that would be the sort of time in which we would release funding if those site plans met the commission's approval. Yeah. And that's what we could e-mail out and people could review is what we had said last time, if that still makes sense. And I don't know, Andrew, I mean, do you want to list specifically the documents that we need to be able to share? Yeah. I mean, just survey is important. So I think you guys sent us a survey that was reported. And then the site plan over top of that where you're showing the easements, the setbacks, where you're placing the monument, that level of coordination, where we're seeing existing utilities. I mean, as we get further construction documents, you'd like to see a drainage report for that pond, make sure we're not impacting what's already designed, looking at what flooding could possibly impact the area as well, that sort of thing. Just a site where I'm looking at like a site plan where I'm looking at a plan view of the location of the monument would be helpful. Sure. Yes. And so that was part of our intention here was to bring you the elements so you would know when we resubmit, hopefully between this meeting and your next meeting, we're hoping to get something to you via e-mail that you would know what the elements were that you'd have seen them described. And so, yes, we can provide the site plan showing the easements, the setbacks, and the utilities. And then, of course, grading and drainage and more detailed construction documents follow in the next phase. So just on our end of things, so are we wanting all of those documents before we release the $100,000? Or are we okay with the survey setbacks and all of that? Because you said that there would be the full construction documents. If we have to wait for full construction documents, this won't go in the ground by Juneteenth. I think it's important to realize that this is happening in two phases. The sculpture is going in by Juneteenth. This larger landscape design plan, the design has been graciously donated, but we still have to fundraise and build that. So that's happening at a whole separate phase. And so I don't want the landscape design and that engineering and things to hold up the sculpture itself. So those are really two related but separate phase of the project. That's helpful, Nathan. Thank you. Okay. Well, the sculpture itself then, that is what we're funding. And so somehow we need to see the answers to those questions related to just the sculpture. We have the location finalized. If we could just see that on a site plan and make sure everybody's good with it, the city signed off on it, we're good. Does that make sense to everyone? And to be clear, we can do that via e-mail. We don't have to wait until the next public art commission meeting to release the funds. Yeah, if that's okay with you all. I think that would be great. I will say when I sent out a last thing, I only had one or maybe two people respond. So this will be very important if I do e-mail these documents out that you all actually look at them and respond to me because otherwise we can't move forward. At $100,000, I'll respond. Okay. Put a little alarm emoji. Alarm emoji. Okay. So we're comfortable with this. I'm comfortable with this. It's in the minutes that way. Yes, sir, Mr. Trush. I had a quick comment. I commend you on the design. It looks like it could really transform that intersection. Very exciting. This is a simple thing, but I'm looking at that and thinking of the number of people that could be hanging out there, gathered there. So maybe have them think about, you know, the trash cans, the things like that. Because, you know, you don't want them just rolled up next to this thing, Herbie Kirby's, you know. But have that in mind where if you have a lot of people hanging out there, the ease of being able to. I agree with you completely. We have trash cans. We just didn't put them on the pretty fundraising. Not the most exciting part. But you always hate to see those as an afterthought. And then they kind of come right into this beautiful, you know, layout. So just be thinking about that now. Okay. So everybody understand their next steps? We look forward to some e-mails. And if you'll just send those to me, then I'll get them out to everybody ASAP. Yes. Thank you all. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you for your time and your presentation. Oh, sure. Yes, please, sir. Come back to the microphone if you would. Will you come up to the mic, please? Please, thank you. Just a quick pick-up from my last time here. Yes, sir. The artist, Basil Watson, will be here from Atlanta this weekend. He's coming particularly to see Everett McCorvey's Sanctuary Road at the Opera House Friday night. You're all still welcome. There's still tickets available on Ticketmaster. And we're having a reception from the Underground Railroad, to join forces with Everett and Sanctuary Road and Valerie Steele and all those folks, and the TSW lead people as well as Samantha. And Basil will be there at the reception. If you'd like to talk to him, meet him, understand him, you're all welcome. Thank you. Thank you for that update. Very much appreciate it. Great. Thank you all. And Heather, are there other updates you want to make here? I was just going to mention that, because I couldn't really remember if I'd mentioned this before where we were before, but we had attempted a couple of times to have sort of a ribbon-cutting at the Birth of Hope and then had horrible weather. And so we've decided now that since we were getting close to spring, that we're going to let the lighting be finished, let the plantings come in so that when we do the actual ribbon-cutting, it will be completed. And so I'm hoping, I heard that the lighting was worked on last week. I think it was last week. And so I'm hoping that maybe they'll be able to start with the plantings like at the end of March, and so hopefully maybe toward the end of April we can plan on the ribbon-cutting for that. All right. It's hard to try to do something like that outside in the winter. Let the plantings grow in, yes. And then the I Was Here project. Yes, ma'am. That contract has gone to them. They have returned it with some revisions, and I've sent that to law, and so our law department is reviewing that. Very good. Excellent. And then as noted in the minutes, we asked for some changes to the score sheet, which I think that's just this one pager, isn't it? Yeah, it's front and back, yeah. And I can kind of, I'll let you know sort of where I made changes. Sure. In the copy you have received, in our original one, there had been an item 1, there had been an item that mentioned conservation and maintenance plans. I actually took that out of number 1, and it's now at the bottom. Okay. In number 2, B, I just combined a couple of other items into one item that now mentions artists, demonstrates capacity for working in the proposed media, and with concepts that are appropriate to the project goals in sight. Those have been kind of split up into two separate ones. Number 3, or I'm sorry, C, now, I'm sorry, I just read the wrong one. B is artist demonstrates professional capacity in successfully completing works of similar scope, sale, budget, and complexity. That is what had been combined into two others. I mean, had been separate in two others. Gosh, I'm sorry. C is new, a new item. The proposed artwork is site-specific, designed for and relevant to the proposed location. The next one, D, is new. The project uses public art to activate and define spaces. Those are from our public art master plan, but just hadn't been in the score sheet. And then E, the artwork presents a concept approach and quality desired for inclusion in Lexington's public art collection. That is new. Sorry, that is not new. That was in the old one. I'm sorry. Then if you turn the page over, number 5, the new item in number 5 is artwork as an original creation and has not been previously duplicated, nor will it be duplicated in the future. And then in number 6, A is combined from what had been two separate items. It is located in a place of high visibility and has broad public access. Those had been separated. And then down at the bottom, these were items that had been sort of to score on a sliding scale, but I moved them because they're really sort of yes or no questions. And so the project has addressed appropriate safety and permitting issues, yes or no. And it includes conservation and maintenance plans and funds for the artwork, yes or no. So, any- I just have a couple of tidying up things. I don't see 3 and 4. Oh, did I mess up the numbering? Yeah. Oh, you know what? That was messed up on the original one, too. So, sorry. I was waiting for it to do okay. I'll notice that. I'm sorry? Collaborate? I spelled something wrong? Okay. And then also on number 1, it goes from B to D. Okay. All right. Yep. Okay. These are things I can fix. Yeah, it's all good. I really like the 12 and 13 doing just yes or no. Yeah. Yeah, it was confusing to try to- Yeah. They either did it or they didn't do it. Yeah. Well, we have some more. Needs what? Oh, you're right. Okay. I will look at all the numbering and lettering and fix that. I clearly screwed that up. Yes, ma'am. Is there a reason why it's like the potential points are 0 to 6 and then it changes 0 to 4? Yeah. Is there any way just to keep it always 0 to 5 just for the brain ease? No, because I think there are things that are more important than others. Okay. Yeah, that should be more important. Okay. Could I ask a bit of a process question? Sure. So I know when we receive these Phase 2 applications in meetings, we score them live in the meeting, and then we hand them to you, and then you, like, average them on the back of, like, a napkin or, you know, a calculator or something. And so I wonder if, like, to me, I feel, like, both as a commissioner, it feels a little weird to be, like, rating, like scoring these with the people standing there and, like, watching us. I agree. It's also, like, kind of awkward for you to, like, hand them to you and then you have to kind of be like, well, you didn't do that well, or, well, you did okay. Right. And so I just wonder if there is a different process that we can explore. I mean, I think still using the sheet, but either scoring in between meetings or scoring at the end. I'm not sure. I just want to open up that conversation while we're talking about the scoring process. Yeah, I agree. It is awkward. And I guess I had thought because these meetings are public and televised that maybe that part of it needed to be also, so it didn't really matter if they left the room. We're still televised. And it was sort of expediency, you know, so that they knew something when they left the room rather than having to follow up with them later. But I agree it is awkward. How does Water Quality do its grants? Does anyone know? Because they also have, like, a pretty public grant-making process. Yeah, well, their meetings, I used to apply to those many years. They have a time where you can come in and present, but you don't hear then, and their meetings are not televised. But basically they've made their decisions before you ever show up at the meeting where they tell you if you've gotten it or not. That's a different process. But it's also, you know, they've got a stack of them like this that they're reviewing. Planning Commission also reviews on the spot. So we come and speak, and they'll give us their feedback directly, and either yay or nay. Yeah. I think for the applicant, they do like knowing when they leave what it is. Oh, sure. You know, maybe there would just be a way. Maybe we convene back there and collect the score sheets and I don't know. Yeah. I mean, do other people think that the process feels a little, that that scoring process feels a little awkward? It feels fine when it's positive outcomes. Yeah, that's true. When it's easy, it's easy. Yeah. One of the things I was going to suggest, too, is, I mean, I think one of the recommendations I was going to make, and I didn't actually get it written out, is that we need to specify that scoring break. That's what we need to address here. Yeah, and what it is and then stick to it. And I think, you know, we need to be sure that we're only moving forward with projects that have met that bar. Were you using 80 or something? 80 had been what had been decided. It just wasn't written down. And so I think it needs to be written down, whatever that line is, and then it's not a moment of debate or decision making or feeling bad. Yeah. Is it appropriate if we just ask the people that were here to step out this door while we score and then come back in? I mean, does that help the awkwardness or that doesn't help? I mean, I think it's really, to me, the awkward part isn't like saying, I mean, there's some awkwardness in telling them, sorry, you didn't make the cut. I mean, and then I think tightening that up would make that less awkward because it's sort of a binary decision. It's the like, okay, everyone score and then like hand them in and then you average the scores and then, I don't know, it's like that part that feels a little bit. I've got a quick question. Even if we're deliberating, is this still public? Yeah. So does it matter whether we send them out the door or not? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they could just turn it on GTV and watch what we're doing. I think it's just a process. Well, I mean, it can be a little more, I don't know. I don't know what it could be. I don't know if we are scoring live. I'm not sure how more elegant I can be about collecting the sheets or trying to implement the scores. I don't mean this as a criticism of that. No, I know. I mean, it feels clunky to me as well. But I'm not sure what, how differently. I mean, this is what we're doing. Is there a way we can digitize this and we're voting very quickly digitally and you're getting it in real time? And then, I mean, can we streamline it to that degree that we're not doing all this ruffling of paper and collecting? Unless it were an app or something that we were scoring from. I don't know. I mean, you could do it with, like, a form. A form. Yeah, like a job form or something, just fill out, like, rate it and then press send and then an average score would be automatically calculated. It calculates for you and then Heather just sees the final. Well, then I'm pulling them up on my phone. Is this an actual working computer? Is that what this is? You can access something there. Could I sign into this? Is this a computer I could sign into? No. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I think me pulling them up on my phone would be actually slower and I have to download all those job forms individually. No, you would be able to access, like, the back end of a job form and it would automatically, or any form software, it would automatically average them for you. Oh. Well, I have two other things that come to me in job forms and I just get them as PDFs that I have to download. You can print out an Excel document. Well, that, no. There you go. Now we're back where we started. Okay, think 1980 and that's what I've got access to. Maybe, Heather, I'd be happy to work with you to just, like, experiment and see if that's something that could work and then between meetings and then maybe we could talk about it in the next Public Art Commission meeting or some sort of, like, digital version if people are interested in that. Okay. I just, you know, I also wonder, like, you know, what happens if there's, like, a mistake in the calculator that, you know, that you're using to average. You check it several times. I know, but, you know, we all have human mistakes. Well, it has occurred to me, too, it would be nice if someone other than myself, if there were at least two of us doing it so that we were coming up with the same number so, you know, it doesn't look like I'm doing something. And then what happens if we have, like, three or four to score? I mean, the scoring process itself also takes, like, ten minutes. And we have busy meetings sometimes. So, anyways, I just am not very helpful to raise points. I do feel like, you know, their presentations add a lot to the application, so, you know, we kind of need to see that. Otherwise, like some of the other planning or I'm not sure about planning commission, but at least social services, you know, grants, you have panelists that score in advance and then they meet to determine. But I think in this case we do need to hear from them because they're telling their story and answering questions. And a lot of these projects, you know, are by the time they get to the phase two, they're kind of usually wanting to move forward as quickly as possible. So, you know, at least it's working. It seems to be working, and we're able to. But maybe an electronic version would be good. But I feel like that their presentation and then our feedback to them as quickly as possible is good to move the projects forward. I'm curious about, like, when I look at my screen right now, it says Public Arts Commission, and it gives a little roster of voting members that's not filled out. It's like somebody's already laid a template out for us. Yeah, and that's the vote cast system itself. It says Public Arts Commission. Can we not use this? Well, you can use it, but you have to make a motion and a second, and you're debating one item and not an entire group of things, which is what we're talking about. I mean, I think we need the overall. I need for documentation purposes all of your scores, you know, I think. So if there was a way to use this, we could theoretically, like. Never mind. That's a terrible idea. It would be a little cumbersome, but I think there probably is a way to do it, but we'd have to decide what gets us there. I mean, your yay vote could be if your score is over 80. That's true. And your nay vote. So now you've done your own work. But then I don't have any documentation. Well, I think we would score it, and then we would hand this to you. You would still do it. But then we would just. You would just put your final in there. Yeah. Okay, this is for that, yes. Okay. Because now we have our names, and we go yay, and it comes up here, yay, nay, nay, whatever. Okay. It makes sense. I don't know. Now you've begun to use the tool. Who would be in charge of this? Well, generally the chair runs it. You key your name in. I mean, like what office would I talk to about possibly utilizing their scoring platform for our meeting? I'll try the council office. Council office. All right. Thank you. You're most welcome. I'm glad to help you with that. Please do. It would be a nice effort. I'm happy to work. I'll try. Sure. If it's a fruitful discussion, that would be super. A fruitful discussion. Definitely. Okay. Talk to council office. We can get a way. We can decide individually on ours, and ours becomes the vote, and the vote becomes the cast, and you're out. Okay. So instead of an average, it would be like if a majority or some whatever founder we set, people had scores over 80. And then it would just show up. Then it would just show up. And then we would see your score. I think you would see whether it's over 80 or under. Then it would be. Who knows what's possible, but maybe that would show up. For certain, a yes or a no would show up in terms of moving forward or not. All right. What we put in here would not be a number, our individual number. It might be, but it hasn't been done that way before. Maybe it can be. Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. All right. I like it. Okay. I will find that out. And it would be a lot more dignified for everybody. But you still have to fill this out. We would still do this. It would still be a paper trail. No, it's all good. We would vote on here and we would give you these as the backup. Yeah, that would be great. Like when she's scoring, all I hear is Jeopardy music, but that's just me. Can we put some on? Wouldn't that be hilarious? It might ease the stress. Okay. Now we're going too far. Do they have the option to come back multiple times? Yeah. I mean, we made recommendations, and they could come back with a new revised plan, sure. All right. Do you have enough input for the sheet itself? No. Well, I would like us to decide what is that bottom bar, and then I am going to add that to the guidelines and the master plan. So to receive funding, you need to score 80 or better? I mean, that's what I think it needs, I think a minimum. You know, I think it's really important that we are only putting forward new, innovative, exciting work, thinking about it again as curating a collection, and that I think 80 would be the very minimum of what we would want to be dedicating, especially if we're dedicating funds toward it. Right. Are we amending the master plan to have that? No, it's just simply not stated. We had decided verbally. We'll be going forward. Will we amend the master plan to have some language about that? Yes. Yes. And I'd put it in the guidelines, too, where we mention about how it's scored, the process. I would go ahead and put it in there so that people are aware. So this minimum of 80 would be documented in that? I mean, if you all agree, 80 is where we should be. I think it's been accepted. I've not heard any debate about it, but I think it was something that needed to be. Do we know where the projects that we've scored to date have come in? Most of them have been well. The ones that we funded, except for one, were well above that. Okay. I think if you don't get perfect on each of these, that's seven points off pretty easily. I think we would have to figure out what, I think just have some sort of consensus that we're all, because some people, when they're grading, they just won't give anything a perfect unless it's extremely perfect. That's the only thing I worry about. Well, that's always the case. I mean, it's always the case. Some people score really hard. Some people give everything a nine. So hopefully with this number of people voting, it evens out. And people need to really think very critically and to consider us as being the caretakers of the money and of dealing with the artwork after the fact. My only other thing, I think, would be that I would be interested in number 12 and 13 being worth more points than three. Yeah. And maybe taking all the other ones down, like one potential one, and then allocating those points to those. Because, I mean, if something doesn't have a conservation and maintenance plan, I mean, that's a pretty- But it is something easy to fix. We just tell them you have to have one. Yeah. But, I mean, theoretically, a project could hit perfect in all of these other categories and then not have a- And it's a zero. They don't have one. And it's a zero. They don't have one. And they score a 97. Well, we could make those make or breaks. This is absolutely required. And it's not a scorable thing. It is a checkmark. You have it or you don't. And if there's no checkmark, you don't move forward. I do think that for the safety portion, you know, the engineering piece is a lot of times going to happen like we give our conditional approval. Because they need to know that they're able to move forward, whether they've got funding or not, because that's a pretty big expense item that, you know, that safety has to be addressed by an engineer. And so that caveat is you want to see it move forward, but they're going to get an engineering stamp at that point. And we see a lot of projects that that's the case, that they need the initial okay for them to invest in that piece. And I am curious about this soil study. We should probably set a threshold of if a piece is over X amount of weight that we're going to require that. Because there's a number of projects that have moved forward without having to have that. The negotiated rate that we were able to get for a freedom train was $3,500. The initial quote was $10,000. So, you know, that's a big expense. And so we really need to determine, okay, if it's over X amount of weight that we're going to require that and just, you know, stick to that moving forward. But, again, that's only going to happen once the project is approved with conditions. I think, well, there haven't been any other projects of this weight. The only other sculpture we've supported is Birth of Hope, and it's nowhere near this weight. But that's what we knew that, though, at the very beginning, with getting the studies of the finding out what had already been done about that land and what it could support. So that needs to happen on the front end as opposed to at the back end. And then you know what you're moving forward with. So I think we do, there is a place where I think we do have to, you know, the stamped construction drawings are supposed to be given to us on the front end so that then we're making a decision based on that work having been done. And the viability of that work going forward has to already be, some of that has to be determined before we should even be looking at it. Right. So, you know, we can't say 5,000 pounds or more because it depends on what you're putting it on. You know, 5,000 pounds in one place may be no big deal. 5,000 pounds in another place is a huge deal. And you can speak to that much more specifically. Yeah, just for clarity of that. So when we get stamped approved construction documents for structural, the structural engineer is designing the foundation for the sculpture, for whatever it is, the structure that should support that sculpture. They are not thinking where is this place. They are designing construction documents for the foundation to support the structure or the sculpture. And that's what we got. So they could stamp those without, like, that's what they're designing to be built for that sculpture, regardless of where it's placed. Then you get into the site, the geotech, the survey. That's the other piece of this where, okay, do we need to establish on the front end? Like, do you need to have your survey done, your geotech done, your site located? I mean, that's the responsibility of the civil engineer. That's what was my question. Is there a civil involved that's looking into all of that stuff? Because those are the issues we ran into on the birth of hope is that we had the sculpture design, and a structural engineer approved that sculpture, but that structural engineer doesn't have any say in where it's put. And so that's when the geotech and the civil and those aspects come into play is when we have it located. So the structural is from the base up, and you need the civil to be from the base down. I mean, that's civil. I'm sorry, the other engineer is from the base down, and that sometimes is being ignored in this. Yes. So civil engineering is about taking something and putting it into reality, putting it into where it's going to be. So we kind of manage everybody else, structural designing, the structural foundation. We pull in geotech to analyze the soils of where it's going to be placed. That's kind of the culmination of all of that coming together. Whereas, like, we can get approved stamped structural drawings, but that doesn't tell me that it can actually work where it's going to be placed. And I guess that's the question, because we've always done stamped structural drawings, but we haven't required the placement, the site analysis. We haven't had any. There haven't been other projects that have come before us like that. Did the Birth of Hope do the same thing? Yeah. So they did the core samples. It already existed. We had it from another source. We had to find it. And it didn't weigh, I mean, I think total it's like maybe 2,000 pounds. It's got to be more than that with the base. Yeah. Do we need to address this going forward in some way through the scoring or in the master plan? That this is almost like a whole new strata of what we need to determine before we say yes. I feel like this falls under number 12, the project's addressed appropriate safety and permitting issues. I mean, I think we can decide that this, if we decide that we want this to be part of it, I think it's already. There's space for it in there. And I think, Heather, to your point earlier about these two items, I think it does make sense to make these pass-fails. Yes, agreed. I mean, I think we've put a really big emphasis as a commission on maintenance. I mean, the safety one, absolutely. Like if we can't put up a project, you know, again, a project could score a 97 and be wildly unsafe, but across all the other categories it makes sense. So I think making that a pass-fail makes sense. And then we've really prioritized conservation and maintenance, and I think we should make that a non-negotiable. Obviously, we have to have that weird workaround where we give them money to then give money somewhere else to do the maintenance. But I think those two should be not point-based. Not scored. Yes, no's. Yeah, yes and no. I really feel I like that. There's no score. It's a pass or fail. Okay. I mean, does everybody agree on that? I agree. Well, then that will give me six points to allocate to some other areas too. I'm still just unclear. I'm still just unclear. So we're going to require every sculpture to have core samples done site survey. Is that what we're saying? No. That's not what I was saying, no. I was saying that make number 12 and 13 pass-fail. Okay. But I'm just trying to get. It depends on the site. It depends on the piece and the site. Yeah. So are we determining? So we're not determining a threshold, though, is that? I'm just still confused as to. I think it will just be individual. I think each piece will be looked at. And if it is, like, within a. . . I don't know. I mean, maybe there is a threshold that we need to address, but I would just think each piece will be do you have the proper permitting? And then we would have people on this say this would require this. But I think, Andrew, what you were saying is every single piece, to a certain extent, would require that. Yeah. So they would have to verify that, hey, we have all this that we're going to prepare. We're going to take these steps to present plans to you like we just did. Like, at a further date, we can improve the sculpture. We just need to know where it's going to be. And then they can figure out how it works there later on. And we can finalize all of that when we get to construction documents. But, like, freedom training and conceptual design phase, we just need to know where it's going to be located. And that was my only question there is there was a lot of talk about can we move the sculpture. I was like, we need to know where the sculpture is going to be so we can give you the funding for the sculpture. Because that's the information that we need to know. But we still need to know those details, though. I mean, I ran into this at the Living Arts and Science Center. They started digging for our addition. What did we find? Big, giant holes full of construction debris. Well, that totally changed what had to happen there. They had to dig all that out, fill it back with other good soil before they could start building. That, I am told, happens all the time. All the time. So there's also all kinds of stormwater issues in this town. There are stormwater pipes. There's all kinds of stuff that we can't be in the position of approving something to be set in place and to find it starts sinking two years later. We can't do that. We can't move forward with that. So this kind of investigation has to happen on the front end or we can't release money. I just think that's absolutely critical. That's part of the due diligence of doing a project, and every project is different. I mean, I had an engineer talking to me about how the Birth of Hope, because it has three legs and it's spread out this way, it's very different than this that is a concentrated chunk of weight in one spot. They're all different, and I cannot describe to you how and why, just that I know we have to have that information on the front end. Before Phase 2. Before Phase 2. Yes. Well, we can't approve it. Quick question. Andrew, what would it take to do just some exploratory drilling? You know, I'd have heard something like $10,000. I mean, I've dealt with this a little bit, not nearly as much as you, but what can you go if you know, because these sculptures are pretty contained in site, you know, if you're doing a big building, I mean, you have to take a chance and you do them every once in a while, but what would it take a company to come and just do some preliminary kind of course, just to make sure you're not running into some big issue like that? Do you have any idea what kind of an expense range for that would be, just for four holes or something like that? I mean, it all depends on the scope. It all depends on the site. If we're looking at something very small, then that's limiting the cost. It won't be as expensive looking at a larger area, of course. You'd only need one or two borings. But what we're talking about is everything that we do in due diligence and preliminary design where we have to get a surveyor on board, we have to provide geotech, we have to do soil analysis. That's everything that we do for every job on the front end. That's their responsibility. We can't lobby all that for them and make those decisions on their behalf. I think all we could do is just determine do they have the preparation, do they have the plan that they're going to get all this figured out. And there will be roadblocks. They'll have to go through engineering. They're going to have to present a land disturbance permit. They're going to have to get sign off from all the appropriate city departments to get their final approvals to pull their permit. That's all taken care of outside of our commission. So I think all we can do is just prepare them. You're going to need to check all of this. You're going to need to make sure all of this is complete to finally build and establish wherever you're going to put your sculpture or whatever the piece is. In phase one? You mean this should be a conversation in phase one? Yeah. I just signed a contract for that work to be done at the Freedom Train site, and it was revised. The initial quote was $10,000, and it got revised down to just for the sculpture, it was $3,500. I think we need to kind of focus up a little bit. It's a good discussion, but we're over time at this point, and I think we want to give her some direction on changes to the phase two score sheet, which I would just suggest you add on there. Minimum score for funding is 80, and we can review the whole document next time because there's been a lot of additions and corrections made during this conversation. And then I don't know of any old or new business, and I don't really know about the review of additions to the public art master plan, but we may need to just take it up next time. Yeah, because I really didn't get that ready. I was going to have official language about the scoring, but I didn't get it ready. So if we can kind of encompass parts of this discussion into the changes you're going to make to the sheet, we kind of can pick up this discussion at our next meeting if that's all right with you all. Is that good? Mm-hmm. All right, then. Now I will ask for a motion to adjourn. We have a motion from Stenkel, second, Mr. Dameron. All those in favor? All those like signed, we're adjourned. Well done. Thank you. Thank you.