# Police & Fire Pension Meeting - March 12, 2025 > Auto-transcribed civic record · March 12, 2025 - **Permalink**: https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/meeting/6380 - **Source video**: https://lfucg.granicus.com/player/clip/6380?view_id=14&redirect=true - **Date**: 2025-03-12 - **Last revised**: March 28, 2026 - **Length**: 2,553 words > ⚠️ **Auto-generated content.** Audio from the official Granicus video was auto-transcribed by OpenAI Whisper-1. Structured facts were extracted with GPT-4o; the narrative summary was written by Anthropic Claude Sonnet. Speaker labels and verbatim wording may contain errors. See [methodology](https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/about/methodology) or [report a correction](mailto:editor@lexingtonky.news). --- ## Meeting Overview The Lexington-Fayette Urban County Government Police and Fire Retirement Fund Board met on March 12, 2025, beginning at 9:00 a.m., with the Mayor presiding. The board worked through five agenda items during the session, taking a total of 10 votes across the meeting. Four of the five agenda items resulted in formal approvals, covering a widow's annuity for LaVonda Grogan, an asset liability study and international structure, disbursements for March, and disability applications. The fifth agenda item, tributes, was informational in nature. No public comments were heard during the meeting. ## Attendance The following individuals were recorded at the March 12, 2025 meeting: **Present:** - Chad - Tommy - Director George - Susan - Trey - Evan - Erin - Elizabeth - Glenda - Chief - Commissioner - Rock - Chief Wells - Chief Weathers **Absent:** - Trey **Late arrivals:** None Note: Trey appears in both the present and absent lists as recorded in the meeting data. ## Votes and Decisions The following motions were considered and voted on during the March 12, 2025 meeting. All votes were conducted by voice. - **Accept the Treasurer's Report and approve the transfer letter** — Motioned by Tommy, seconded by Director George. Passed by voice vote. [timestamp: 0:07:33] - **Approve minutes for February** — Passed by voice vote. [timestamp: 0:08:04] - **Approve widow's annuity for LaVonda Grogan** — Passed by voice vote. [timestamp: 0:08:34] - **Revisit the asset liability study and discuss international structure** — Seconded by Rock. Passed by voice vote. The matter was moved to the organizational subcommittee. [timestamp: 0:09:39] - **Approve disbursements for March** — Motioned by Chief, seconded by Commissioner. Passed by voice vote. [timestamp: 0:11:11] - **Send Jacob Evans' application for total and permanent occupational disability to appropriate doctors** — Passed by voice vote. The application was sent back for clarification. [timestamp: 0:12:13] - **Place issue of application acceptance policy in subcommittee** — Passed by voice vote. The matter was moved to the organizational subcommittee. [timestamp: 0:15:51] - **Send James Cropper's application to convert existing service retirement to total and permanent occupational disability to appropriate doctors** — Passed by voice vote. [timestamp: 0:16:53] - **Send Patrick McMullen's application to convert existing service retirement to total and permanent occupational disability to appropriate doctors** — Passed by voice vote. [timestamp: 0:17:23] - **Approve Christopher Oakley's medical reports and set the appropriate rate** — Passed by voice vote with one nay vote recorded. A condition was noted requiring clarification on the whole body impairment percentage. [timestamp: 0:19:00] ## Contested Items Two items generated procedural disputes during the March 12, 2025 meeting, both requiring follow-up action rather than immediate resolution. - **Jacob Evans' Disability Application:** A dispute arose regarding the accuracy of the application form completed by the attending physician. The specific concern centered on whether the form had been filled out correctly, prompting discussion among those present about how to proceed. Rather than accepting the application as submitted, the meeting resulted in a decision to send the form back for clarification. No final determination on the application was made pending the corrected documentation. - **Christopher Oakley's Whole Body Impairment Percentage:** A discrepancy was identified in the whole body impairment percentage as reported by Dr. Burke. The inconsistency in the reported figure raised questions that could not be resolved during the meeting itself. As with the Evans matter, the outcome was a need for clarification before the item could move forward. No revised figure or final determination was recorded at this time. In both cases, the disputes were procedural in nature — concerning the accuracy and completeness of submitted documentation rather than substantive disagreements over eligibility or medical findings. Both items were left open pending further information. ## Widow's annuity for LaVonda Grogan [timestamp: 08:34] The board took up Resolution Item 1 concerning the widow's annuity for LaVonda Grogan. Susan presented the item to the board for consideration. - **Outcome:** The board approved the widow's annuity for LaVonda Grogan. No concerns or debate were noted in the available record for this agenda item. The matter was presented and approved by the board. ## Asset liability study and international structure [timestamp: 09:08] The board took up Agenda Item 2, a discussion of the asset liability study and international structure. Susan led the presentation, revisiting the asset liability study that had originally been brought before the board in August. The discussion centered on the international structure component of the study, with the board examining the findings and implications raised in the earlier analysis. Following deliberation on the item, the board determined that the matter was best suited for further review at the committee level rather than being resolved in full at the current meeting. As a result, the board approved moving the issue to the organizational subcommittee for additional consideration. The item was approved. ## Disbursements for March [timestamp: 11:11] The board reviewed the disbursements for March as listed on the agenda. Susan presented this item to the board for consideration. No significant debate or concerns are reflected in the available record for this agenda item. The board approved the March disbursements. ## Disability applications [timestamp: 11:42] The board discussed disability applications for four individuals: Jacob Evans, James Cropper, Patrick McMullen, and Christopher Oakley. Susan was the key speaker presenting and leading the discussion on these applications. The board reviewed each application and made decisions on how to proceed with each case. All disability applications were approved. *Note: The available meeting data does not include the specific details of each individual application, the nature of the disabilities presented, or the particular terms and conditions attached to each approval.* ## Tributes [timestamp: 19:30] The board paid tribute to two individuals who passed away in February 2025: Gilbert Grogan and Wayne Hughes. Remarks were delivered by Chief Wells, Rock, and Chief Weathers, who honored the memory of the two individuals. No debate or deliberation took place, as this item was informational in nature. --- ## Decisions - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Accept the Treasurer's Report and approve the transfer letter - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Approve minutes for February - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Approve widow's annuity for LaVonda Grogan - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Revisit the asset liability study and discuss international structure - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Approve disbursements for March - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Send Jacob Evans' application for total and permanent occupational disability to appropriate doctors - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Place issue of application acceptance policy in subcommittee - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Send James Cropper's application to convert existing service retirement to total and permanent occupational disability to appropriate doctors - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Send Patrick McMullen's application to convert existing service retirement to total and permanent occupational disability to appropriate doctors - **Motion** — passed (0-1): Approve Christopher Oakley's medical reports and set the appropriate rate --- ## Full transcript Девочка-пай Девочка-пай Девочка-пай Девочка-пай Девочка-пай Девочка-пай Девочка-пай Девочка-пай Девочка-пай Девочка-пай Девочка-пай Девочка-пай Девочка-пай It's 9 o'clock, and I'll call to order the Lexington-Fayette-Urban County Government Police and Fire Retirement Fund Board Meeting. And today's March 12th, 2025, and the first item of business for us is our Treasurer's Report and our Transfer Letter. Welcome, Chad. Good morning. You should have in your packet the various financial reports comparing fiduciary net assets from December and January, as well as a letter of transmittal and a bank statement. The value of the plan as of yesterday morning was $979,068,266.81, which compares to the last month of $1,890,625.23. You don't like that. No. But I'll ask if there is a motion, and then we'll discuss it. Motion to accept the report and approve the transfer letter. Thank you. Second. Thank you. You have to say it. Tommy was giving me the Director George. Now, questions, comments, anything to the motion? No. All right. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Is anyone opposed? All right. Thank you very much. That passes. And we have minutes for February, so I'll entertain a motion to approve. Motion to approve. Thank you. Second. All right. Any questions or corrections, additions? All right. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Is anyone opposed? All right. That motion passes. And we have new business. Susan, I'll ask you to run us through there. Yes, Mayor. Item number one is widow's annuity for LaVonda Grogan. I need a motion to approve. So moved, Mayor. Second. All right. We have a motion and a second. Any questions? All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Is anyone opposed? All right. That motion passes. Item number two is to revisit the asset liability study from August and discuss international structure. This was revisited last month with Callen that we need to go ahead and put this back on the board's agenda. I think the best thing for this is to put it into one of the subcommittees and work as a small group. But it's the board's discretion. Mayor? Yes. I move to put this in the organizational subcommittee. That's what we've done in the past. It's quite lengthy. And for saving people time, four or five of us can look at it and then come back to the board. All right. Is there a second? Second. I'm sorry. Okay. Rock seconded. Any discussion? All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Is anyone opposed? Now, remind me, Trey isn't here, but remind me who's on the organizational subcommittee. Who all? That would be Trey, Evan, Lord have mercy. I know. I'm sorry. It's not Monday. I know. It's that spring forward thing. Erin is on there. Elizabeth. Oh, my gosh. And Glenda. Glenda is also on the subcommittee. Okay. The mayor put you on all of the subcommittees. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Did I not tell you that? Well, your expertise is very important. I think she was added last year when she first came on the board. She was added to all of them. Sorry. And I remember who did that. It was Elizabeth. Oh, my goodness. Okie dokie. So that issue is now in the legislative subcommittee. I mean the organizational subcommittee. Yes, ma'am. We did vote on that, didn't we? Yes, we did. Kind of got off by asking the members. All righty. Very good. Thank you. Item number three is disbursements for March. They're listed on your agenda and need a motion to approve. Is there a motion? So moved. Thank you, chief. Thank you, commissioner. Any questions about that? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Is anyone opposed? That motion passes. Next on the agenda are disabilities. We have Jacob Evans, division of police, application for total and permanent occupational disability. I need a motion to send to appropriate doctors. Is there a motion? So moved. Thank you. Second? Second. All right. I'm sorry. This is a weird meeting. It's just weird. All right. Are there any questions to the motion? Yes, ma'am. Going through the application, it appears that officer Jake, I'm sorry, officer Evans has been seen by several doctors. However, on the job responsibilities form, able to perform the duties was checked in every box. While at the bottom there were some, I guess, comments by whoever filled out the form with some restrictions. So I'm curious what the board would like to do about getting clarification on whether officer Jacobs is actually able to perform the job or not. It appears that he is injured. It may just be a clerical error on whoever filled out the form. In this case, do we, oh, did you have something? Yeah, I will speak on this. This actually has been an issue. The board has talked about it the last few months. This was brought up to officer Evans when he submitted his application. Obviously, it's not up to us on whether or not the board approves, you know, wants to accept this application or not. He was made aware that this could be an issue. So we will leave it up to the board's discretion on if we move forward on this. Additionally, because it has become an issue, we think it should be moved to subcommittee to discuss on how we accept these in the office. Like, what's the expectations of the board? Yes. Any other comments? Do you know if the doctor filled this form out, presumably, or did he? It is my understanding that he did. The doctor? Yes. I think the doctor was reluctant to fill it out. And so I think sometimes doctors don't read it. I don't know that they, we don't know. I mean, these are just guesses from the office. So I don't, I mean, I don't know. It's tricky for us to know. And we're getting more and more of those. Yeah, it's happening more often. Chief. So are you asking for, I mean, we've got one issue of whether or not to approve this as is and send it on, and then is there a second issue to put it in subcommittee to see what we do for future, future? Yes. Okay. So would it have to be two separate motions? Yes. So the motion on the, well, the motion on the floor is to approve this. That is correct. This first one with Officer Evans. Let me get it clarified. I want it clarified. And so is there more discussion about that motion? All right. Can I recommend to amend the motion? Sure can. To send it back to, for corrections or for review and bring it back, to send it back to Officer Jacob. Okay. And Commissioner Armstrong seconded that. Is there any discussion of the amendment? All right. All those in favor of the amendment to send it back for clarification, say aye. Aye. Is there anyone opposed? All right. That motion passes. So the motion on the floor becomes to send this application back for clarification to the physician. Yes. Is there any further discussion? All right. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? All right. That motion passes. Thank you. Can we also have the second motion? Does someone want to put it in committee? The issue? I move to place this issue in subcommittee. I guess organizational? Yes. Or review. He's not here. Or review on the application acceptance policy. Yes. Is there a second? All right. We have a second. Don't miss a meeting. Especially if you chair a subcommittee. Is there a discussion on the motion? All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Is there anyone opposed? All right. Thank you. That passes. Okay. Next on the agenda is James Cropper, division of fire, application to convert an existing service retirement total and permanent occupational disability. I need a motion to send to appropriate doctors. So moved. Second. Thank you. Is there any discussion? All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Is anyone opposed? All right. That motion passes. Next is Patrick McMullen, division of police, application to convert an existing service retirement to total and permanent occupational disability. I need a motion to send to appropriate doctors. Do I hear a motion? Motion to send to appropriate doctors. Thank you. Is there a second? Second. All right. Any discussion? All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Is anyone opposed? All right. That motion passes. Next on the agenda is Christopher Oakley, division of fire. Medical reports are completed and distributed. I need a motion, please. I make a motion to approve and set the appropriate rate. Second. Thank you. Any questions? Yes. All right. Dr. Burke, in his response, said that the whole body impairment was 39%, and then on the form that we sent him, he put 35. I just, you know, because of the high rate, it does make a difference. So, you know. Hold on. It's the last page. The physician. In the middle. This value is combined and results in a 39% total whole body. But when? I can call and get a clarification. Yeah, that's all right. I know that he added, Mr. Oakley tried to add a body part, and we caught that. So, it had to be reduced because he can't add a body part while he's at the doctor's office since he didn't apply for it. So, that may be the difference. But, yes, I will call and clarify. Do you want me to bring this before the board, or you want to approve it based on what Dr. Burke comes back with? So, you're, well. I think our official approval needs to include whatever that percentage is. Well, they always approve it at the appropriate rate. So, you would clarify with physician what that is? Correct. Okay. Yes, Mayor. Does that suit everybody? Does that suit? And I can bring it back just for informational purposes only, just to list it on the agenda. I think that would be. But we'll move forward with the disability. Okay. Very good. Any other questions to the motion? All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Is anyone opposed? Aye. All right. That motion passes. Thank you. Next on the agenda are tributes. Gilbert Grogan, Division of Fire. Passed away on February 13, 2025. Wayne Hughes, Division of Fire. Passed away on February 14, 2025. All right. Let's pause a moment and I'll ask for any comments. Chief Wells. Thank you very much, Mayor. Certainly want to extend our condolences to both the Grogan and the Hughes family. Gilbert Gibby Grogan was employed with the Division of Fire from 1973 until January of 1996 and retired as District Major 201. And he was certainly a regular figure around a lot of our events, even though he lived in Bowling Green, I believe. And then Wayne Hughes served from January of 1959 to January of 1982 and was a lieutenant, I believe, when he retired. Also has a family history of service. His grandson, Tyler, is on the fire department, and Tyler's wife is a Lexington police officer. So we appreciate their legacy of service. Extend our condolences. Thank you, Mayor. Yes, thank you. Anyone else? Chief Weathers. Oh, Rock. Thank you, Mayor. I had the pleasure of working with Gibby Grogan for a number of years. He and I were both in the EMS section of the Division of Fire. As a matter of fact, he was the shift supervisor for one period of time and had to supervise me. So I'd like to express our condolences to the Grogan family as well as the Hughes family. Thank you. Chief Weathers. And I just want to express my condolences to our fire department family. Just my sincere condolences on your losses. Thank you. Anyone else? I will add my voice to those of the folks who've spoken. It's always sad to lose those who have served or their spouses and family members, but we certainly offer my condolences to those families, the Hughes and the Grogan families, thanking them for their service. And that takes us to Mr. Puckett, First Subcommittee. Mr. Dean, we can continue with the meeting at 10 o'clock to go over the jobs. I thought I had it on. Okay. We're going to have a review of what the jobs are of the people on disability. The legislative subcommittee is going to meet at 930, and we're going to set an agenda. That's it. All right. Very good. You were very optimistic on those times, weren't you? That's great. Thank you. She did it. Good. Thank you. Does anyone from the organizational subcommittee have any report? We know they'll be working hard. I'm sure Susan will get a hold of Trey, and he's the chairperson. I will send him a lovely text. He will love that. Is there anything else for the good of the board? Yes. Thank you, Mayor. As I've spoken on earlier, the Social Security Fairness Bill not only was passed, but Social Security Administration has done a tremendous job getting the benefits out to quite a few of the retirees already. At our fire retirees lunch the other day, quite a few of them talked about getting the back pay and the increase of their monthly Social Security check. And Tommy Puckett got his, too. So, anyway, Rock has not. But, you know, supposedly by the end of March, all of the Social Security back pay will be paid. Last month I spoke on and made a motion on House Bill 146, which excludes pensioners, their pension from 31 to 41. And I appreciate those of you on the board who approved that. And we did send a letter to the House Appropriations Committee. However, my information is that bill is sitting on the desk and going nowhere in that committee. So our retirees are likely not to get any benefit out of that this session. End of my report. Okay. I think the, let's see, this week is the last week. Next week is the veto week. Is that correct? And then they'll come back for three days. Mostly to override vetoes. So, all right. Is there anything else? Yes. I have one thing real quick. We did our tributes to those individuals that are part of the pension fund that have passed away in service. And I know this is a little bit out of the norm, but I just want to take a moment and recognize the late Isabel Yates, Vice Mayor here. She was always a huge supporter of public safety. This city is large. And she, unfortunately, passed away not too long ago at the age of 100 years old. And her leadership was very important in the formation of this city. And I just want to thank her for all the support she gave to public safety over the years that she was here. Very good. Anything else? I think you're going to make that 930 meeting. All right. Thank you. Is there a motion to adjourn? So moved. Thank you. All those in favor say aye. Aye. All right. We are adjourned. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.