# Rural Land Management Board - July 23, 2025 > Auto-transcribed civic record · Board · July 23, 2025 - **Permalink**: https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/meeting/6494 - **Source video**: https://lfucg.granicus.com/player/clip/6494?view_id=14&redirect=true - **Date**: 2025-07-23 - **Body**: Board - **Last revised**: March 1, 2026 - **Length**: 5,165 words > ⚠️ **Auto-generated content.** Audio from the official Granicus video was auto-transcribed by OpenAI Whisper-1, with speaker labels folded in from Granicus closed-captioning. Structured facts were extracted with GPT-4o; the narrative summary was written by Anthropic Claude Sonnet. Speaker labels and verbatim wording may contain errors. See [methodology](https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/about/methodology) or [report a correction](mailto:editor@lexingtonky.news). --- ## Meeting Overview The Board of Architectural Review convened at 3:00 PM via Zoom, with Gloria presiding over the session. The meeting covered two agenda items: the approval of the June 25th minutes and an informational discussion regarding a Military Road issue. Across the meeting, the Board took 4 votes and heard no public comments. ## Attendance **Present:** Margaret, Hannah, Robert, Phil Meyer, Jim Coleman, Stephen Howard, Phil Hager, Mary Quinn, Will Mayer, and Joanna. **Absent:** Christine Stanley, Tyler Morton, and Jonathan Disney. **Late:** Will Mayer arrived late to the meeting. ## Votes and Decisions The Board took four votes during the July 23, 2025 meeting, all of which passed unanimously. - **Approval of June 25th Minutes** [timestamp: 0:04:42]: Margaret motioned and Phil seconded a motion to approve the minutes from the June 25th meeting. The motion passed unanimously. - **Enter into Closed Session** [timestamp: 0:30:07]: Hannah motioned and Robert seconded a motion to enter into closed session. The motion passed unanimously. - **Authorize Appraisal of Farm 22024** [timestamp: 0:38:06]: Margaret motioned and Phil seconded a motion to authorize an appraisal of farm 22024. The motion passed unanimously. - **Authorize Appraisal of Farm 2024** [timestamp: 0:38:38]: Margaret motioned and Mary Quinn seconded a motion to authorize an appraisal of farm 2024. The motion passed unanimously. No roll call votes were recorded; all four motions were decided by unanimous consent. Individual vote counts were not recorded. ## Appointments The Board took action on several appointments during the July 23, 2025 meeting. - **Jonathan Disney** was appointed as the **Commerce Lexington representative**. - **Christine** was **reappointed** to the **Board**. - **Stephen Howard** was **reappointed** to the **Board**. ## Contested Items - **Military Road / Kentucky Department of Transportation Easement Dispute** The board addressed a conflict with the Kentucky Department of Transportation (KDOT) over a proposed action involving a federally protected farm. KDOT's plan would remove a portion of an easement on the property, which the board is opposing. The item was characterized by community opposition, with the board taking a stance against the state transportation agency's proposal. No additional parties, vote tallies, or resolution outcome were recorded in the available meeting data. ## Approval of June 25th minutes [timestamp: 04:12] The board took up the approval of the minutes from the June 25th meeting. Gloria, Margaret, and Phil were the key speakers during this portion of the meeting. No changes or additions to the minutes were suggested by any board members, and no concerns were raised regarding the accuracy or completeness of the record as written. The minutes were approved. ## Military Road Issue [timestamp: 16:58] The board discussed an ongoing dispute involving the Kentucky Department of Transportation (KDOT) and its proposal to remove a portion of an easement on a federally protected farm. **Key Speakers:** Gloria, Beth Gloria and Beth presented the issue to the board, outlining KDOT's intent to take out a portion of the easement on the federally protected farm property. The board expressed strong opposition to this proposal, with members making clear they intend to take a firm stand against the department's plans. The item was informational in nature, with no formal vote or resolution taken at this meeting. The discussion served to keep board members apprised of the situation as it develops. --- ## Decisions - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Approval of June 25th minutes - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Enter into closed session - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Authorize an appraisal of farm 22024 - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Authorize an appraisal of farm 2024 --- ## Full transcript Just for the record, let me see the time, is, I have three on the nose, Beth. Okay. I will call the meeting to order and tell you that it's three o'clock. Okay, you're live on the air. Thank you. You're welcome. And I can see folks, and I'll read those to you, Beth, just so you'll have them for the minutes. That's Margaret is here, and Hannah, and Robert, and Phil Meyer, and Jim Coleman, and Stephen Howard. And we have Councilmember Boone's legislative aide, and Lex TV, and Tracy, and Joanna, I see your symbol, but I don't see you. There she is. Are you able to see me now? Yes, and welcome back sometime. Thank you. A little more time, I want to hear about Australia. All right, will do. So, we do have a quorum, and we can start, and I do want to thank you all again for coming. It is really important always, as I've pointed out, that we have a quorum because we always have so much to vote on, and we didn't have enough last time, so that's put us a little behind on some things. We do have some new members. Jonathan Disney is not here today, but he was confirmed by the Council earlier in the month, and he will be at our August meeting, and he is our Commerce Lexington rep. And Beth just told me that Christine and Stephen, I saw his face, where is he, his spot over here, they have both been reappointed to this, so that's great. We have lots of good folks. Our absence today, Beth, I think you already have these, is Christine Stanley is excused. She won't be here today. And our Council member, Tyler Morton, is out of town, and he won't be here today. So, ordinarily, they are here. Also now on the screen, Beth, just for you, I see Phil Hager. Welcome, Phil. And Mary Quinn. So, we have a great crowd. Again, let me say how important it is that everybody, this is one of the reasons we've been doing this by Zoom, is because we have so many members, and it's a big board, and we have to have a quorum. And our ordinance requires a percentage of attendance for each member, and I want to keep all of you. So, please sort of always be aware of that, and make sure if you're not coming that you tell Beth or me, or as a matter of fact, just text or email Beth and or me, either, whether you are or are not coming, just so we'll know when we have that. We do have a couple of limitations today because Margaret is up there on my screen. I see her sunrise and sunset, and she knows that she has to be on screen when we vote, but she's in the car and not able to be here close today. And Joanna is going to be traveling, so she's kind of limited on what she can do as well. And Mary Quinn needs to leave early. So, we're going to Zoom through as much of this as we can and try to move the meeting on partially because the Board of Architectural Review overlaps with us, and we want to make sure they have plenty of time as well. So, I don't want to rush you all beyond our getting all the minutes and all of the meeting done that we need to do, but I do want to make sure that we speed along as quickly as we can. The first thing that needs to happen is approval of our June 25th minutes. And I know some of you all were not here, but I will entertain a motion to approve for those of you who have, hopefully, everybody's read them. So, even those of you who were not here have sort of caught up on what we did. Now, are there any changes or additions to that? Yes? No? If not, I will entertain a motion to approve the minutes as sent to you all. Don't move, Gloria. This is Margaret. I can see your mouth. I'll second. And Phil seconded it, as did Mary Quinn and some others. So, anybody? Nothing? All in favor then? Raise your hand if you approve. Okay. Beth? Aye. I think it looks like unanimous. Okay, yes. And Gloria, I will note that Will Mayer has joined us. Oh, yes, I just see him. Welcome, Will. He's waving. We have just some quick things to go through while everybody is here. We had just a little unfinished business, and that was the Board of Adjustment, the STR, as we reported last time, was 3-3. And as far as we know, you have a 30-day deadline, and that appeal has not been granted. So, I think that's completed there. Charlie Farmer has been delivering our signs as he makes those visits to the various farms. And if any of you know, I know he left some with Robert, and Robert's going to be getting those distributed in his area. And I've talked to Charlie, and he'll be giving me some. Charlie did say, and I guess Tracy will have to be the one to address this, that when he went to visit one of our farms and took one of the signs, the guy said he doesn't want to put up a sign. I was under the impression from years ago that if it's a federal match that the feds had requested or they had a policy that we do install a sign. So, it may not be an option with some of our farms as to whether or not they display them. So, Tracy, you probably will need to look into that and let us know next time where that stands. In case that is the case and it is the least bit controversial, we'll need to address that. Okay, we'll look into it. I don't, my recollection is we can't make them put it up, but we'll look at it. Yeah, I just remembered, and Margaret may remember too, that if it was a federally matched easement that they had requested or they had a policy. So, maybe we need to look into that to make sure we're doing everything we're supposed to. Oh, and Gloria, I can tell you, it was with the 2014 Farm Bill, we put language in the easement that says if a sign is provided to you, you're required to put it up. Okay. So, it started with that Farm Bill. Well, you might just send that to Charlie. Okay. And he can either forward that on to the person who said they didn't want one, didn't want to put it up, or we can send it to that person. That would be nice. I just want to make sure as our signage that we've done that we're where we're supposed to be with all that. Just for clarification, that was a federal mandate from the 2014 Farm Bill where we updated our template easement to include that language. Is that correct? It was actually the board decided to do it because it was not required by the feds. And it was a decision the board made because that's when they first started looking at doing new signs and they wanted to have more visibility and so decided that if we're investing in this farm, that people should know about it and be educated about it. And so they decided to make that a requirement. And so we continued in our 2018 template, our 2018 Farm Bill template. Well, that's our answer. Yeah, just ask Beth. And the only other thing I had that sort of unfinished business is the mayor's letter about the STR. As far as I know, we've not heard any more. And I don't think Beth has either. I haven't. And the military road Beth will go into when she does her staff report about the farm 52006 where the Kentucky Department of Transportation wants to take out a good bit of the easement. And I know Robert and some others attended that meeting. It was a very great neighborhood meeting. I'm sorry. I couldn't attend. I had planned on it and I did RSVP that I had a funeral that day and wouldn't attend. But Beth and Olivia did and they got, I will have to say, got kudos because the people out there said that Beth and Olivia were the stars. That was their quote. They said, you 2 were the stars of the meeting and did a really good job. So I wanted to pat you on the back, but Beth will go into more detail when we get to that. And I don't think there's any other business from before that I can think of that needs just a quick update. Anybody else. And before we go to closed session, just to make sure we have enough time while Olivia is here, because after closed session, she may not want to stay on Olivia as you all know, is council member Boone's legislative aid. And she has been working with Erica Rogers in the mayor's office and vice mayor Wu and council member Boone and they've been planning the annual council members ag day. And the, I think so far, what has been planned is great. They are concentrating and showing off some of our PDR farms and we are all invited and just mark your calendars for August the 20th. And it's not going to be a full day. Like, it's been in the past. It's going to be a half day. They're going to start at a seed place in town, go to 1 of our farms, unless this has changed Olivia. It's what you all told me. In the beginning, you're going to go to 1 of our farms that raises vegetables and provides farmers market restaurants and other places. And then you're going to end it at a winery tour, both of which have PDR. So, anything Olivia that you want to add before. I was just going to add, yes, those stops are still accurate. I think 1st, we're going to stop at hallway feed here in town since it's closest to the government center, then dream time. And then grimes mill winery is our last stop. And I will say the times right now are beginning at 9 am. So we'll be at hallway at 9 am. And then we should wrap up at 1. We're still kind of finalizing the details, but just wanted to make sure you all have that on your calendars. We're excited for you all to be a part of it. Well, it's great and we're tickled that and I've already told them when you all contacted us that we have some great maps and Beth has all kinds of great information. And I think you had asked that we do some kind of a program like they've had in the past, maybe over lunch when they're at the winery and Beth and I can discuss that when you get closer to time what you want. So, and thank you. I think that's a great thing. So I encourage you all, please, August the 20th to mark down 9 am and when Olivia and the council members have the details together before the 20th, they will be sending them to Beth and me and we can forward all that on to you. So, thank you all. Let's see. I don't think we can go on to closed session. Can't we? And you know what, Gloria, if you want to, since our closed session, and I'll tell the board, so our closed session is going to be much briefer than we thought. Our appraiser can only take, we have two new federally funded farms and our appraiser can only do those appraisals over the next month. And then he can do multiple small farm appraisals in September. So today in closed session, we are just going to review the two federally funded and then next month we will review the small farm final rankings. And since you all voted last month to require Ag Water Quality Plans instead of Conservation Plans, since NRCS does not have the staffing to provide those anymore, we are going to ask the applicants that made it to initial rankings to provide those before our August meeting. So we'll have all that and know their farming practice and know that that's on file before the final ranking. So, today's going to be very short and since it's just 315, Gloria, if you want to do those treasured shares report and board reports before we go into closed session, and then we can open and adjourn, then that will be fine. Okay, it's about the appraisers. I take it you're going to be sending another letter to those folks about their ag plan? Yes, I'll send an email. About their water quality, that they don't have to do the full ag plan anymore. And what you might do is we had some people that qualified except for getting their signatures from their mortgages or the loan or whomever had it. You might just send it to all of them so they could be prepared since you had told them they could be moved to the end of the line or reapply. So they know to be doing that. Okay. Because we didn't have but 37 and maybe we can send that many letters that's still on our budget team to mail that many more. Okay. Maybe just notify everybody and keep everybody updated as much as possible. I have had some calls about it and that might be the easiest way to handle that. And it might cut down on the calls even I get about it. Okay, great. I want to know what's next and when will we be and when will appraisers come and so maybe that'll answer the questions. Okay. I think rather than Mary Quinn, are you still? Okay. And Joanna, are you still? Okay. Okay. In that case, we can go on. We don't have a treasurer's report. I don't think you have anything. And I guess the only question about that is, have we heard any more from our conservation district invoice? Did they ever send 1 Beth? Yes, just in the last day or 2 they have and we're working with them on that and figuring out if they want us to pay for the past or for it to be for this fall. So, actually, some new emails just came through today. But, yes, so we have gotten that and working that out. So we'll be able to report back in August. Okay, and just if they do that, and just send it on to Phil, because we already voted and they don't have to vote again on doing that. Beth, if they didn't advertise us as supporting the program a couple of years ago, and we're getting an option to do it this fall, I'd much rather do it this fall and have them publicize it. Okay, I'll ask about that. Okay. Okay. And I'll just quickly say that. I think ag day is a great thing and I really do want to encourage you all to attend if at all possible, because you will get some 1st hand information about the farms and you will enjoy seeing the places we're going. They are they're fun and they're easy to get to. And besides that, you might get a glass of wine. And the military road, I think that everybody needs to understand on this board how important that issue is to us because this is precedent setting. This is a federal easement. We have told the state. No, Beth has written them a letter. You all had a meeting, which, as I said, I wanted to attend, but had a funeral to go to. Beth was there. Olivia was there. Robert was there. We did. It was a great turnout apparently. And just since you all had the meeting and have sent some formal letters back to the KDOT. And I don't know if you've gotten a copy of that letter yet or not, Beth, but they did this past week, send another 1 basically saying we're sending the appraisers and we're moving on. So, that that is something we definitely are going to have to make a firm stand on. And other than that, I have not done anything of any significance of great that you all need to know about. Beth has done a great job because she did go to Don Robinson's as did Olivia. And that was a very detailed meeting. I understand. And I have had calls about that. And as I've told you to get a great report about about you all being there. So, Beth, Olivia, thank you. Yes, glad to do it. And I think we've covered almost everything that I had in my report signs and. That farm and small farms, the only thing I will add since Alvina is here today, so she is Commissioner Horns administrative specialist. And since we implemented the small farm program, she has been drafting our minutes for me. So, I'll just give her a shout out of how wonderful she is why she's here today and introduce you all to her. So, thank you. Thank you from all of us. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That's great. And if, since you don't have anything else, Beth, I do want to say to let you all know that Beth has had a stressful last month and has kind of lost her mind. Yes. And if, since you don't have anything else, Beth, I do want to say to let you all know that Beth has had a stressful last month and has continued to do a good job and try to keep her head above water. Her dad has not been well and her parents have moved to Lexington. So, she's been taking care of family and sickness and PDR and all of the things that come up and helping pack boxes and unpack boxes of her parents. So, all of you all need to know that when you have not many people helping do this, that any and everything they do certainly should be appreciated. So, Beth, thank you. Thank you for me and I'm saying for the board and everybody appreciates. We all have issues and things that come up, but sometimes it's more than others. So, you've had a lot going on and feel free to call on us and let us know what needs to be done when we can help you do things. If letters that go out need to be done or people need to be contacted, please contact your board members. That's what we're here for. Thank you. Yes. Then I'm just going to go around with the faces. I see it on the screen. Hannah, do you have anything you want to add that you've done that we'd be interested in? No, ma'am. I'm just hanging in there. Thank you, Robert. No, really not much going on right now with the Farm Bureau. So, pretty slow in July. And have you distributed any of your funds? Up for from your auction. Oh, yes. Yes. So the scholarship committee met that was really very close to the auction. So, it would have been April and basically awarded. I mean, it was nigh on $50,000 this year in scholarships. So, to all to Fayette County seniors going to college really anywhere. So, they do a lot of good work in our education foundation. They do. That's wonderful. Phil Meyer. Nothing to report during vacation. I think the Farm Bureau gave away more than $50,000. I'm not sure the figure, but yeah, auction did well and the scholarship applicants did well and all is good in my little world right now. So, that's it. Good. Jim Coleman. Hello, Madam chair. I, it's been pretty busy here at cold request farm with our season, but I've been invited to be the guest speaker at the nursery and landscapers conference on August the 12th. So, I'm going to get a chance to brag about all the great things we're doing here in Fayette County to preserve our farmland. And I've also been invited by Ted Turner's estate of American farmland trust to go to a conference, made up of land barons at Ted Turner's estate in New Mexico, and it's going to take place on October the 22nd and University of Kentucky recommended for me to go and to also give an update also on land preservation and what we're doing here in Fayette County. So, everybody's going to be calling, you're going to have a lot of interest want to buy land and a PDR after October. Fantastic. We hope they'll put an easement on whatever they buy. Yes, absolutely. Great. Phil Hager. Nothing to report. Thank you, though. I see your, but I don't see you. Sorry, can you see me now? Yes, nothing to report. Okay, Mary Quinn. As you know, we are just in the thick of tourism season, and we've had lots of visitors in town. Of course, park has been super busy. We've also had great convention groups downtown and I'm just going to wet your appetite because we found out today about a very exciting award of distinction for 1 of our attraction partners. And it just so happens to be an attraction partner out in the rural area. So, stay tuned next week for an announcement from VisitLEX, but it's a huge honor and we're super duper excited. Good, fantastic. And I know that your restaurant week is going well. Absolutely, it is restaurant week. Thank you, Gloria. So, get out there and go to a place that you haven't been to in a minute or try a brand new spot. There's lots of good deals. We try to do that every year, and it's always encouraged my husband. I fear it's a way to get a good dinner date. Absolutely, and it means so much to our restaurants because, as you probably can imagine, this is the season where everybody's grilling out and doing stuff at the house. But these restaurants are really important to the fabric of our community. So, it's nice to show them some love. And so many of them now in our community are supporting our farmers with local produce on the menu. So, it's really, truly a win win. And I try to pick 3 every year. And so we've picked 3 and they are 3 people who are supporting our farmers and are buying local. So, good luck with that too. I didn't make it to hamburger week, but I am making it to dinner week. Good. Great. Stephen Howard, welcome back. Well, I really liked Mary Quinn's announcement, but I have one myself. I'm a first time grandpa. Oh, wow. Oh, my word. I'm going to show off my first grandbaby. So, that's what I've been doing for the past month. Congratulations. Well, you win, Stephen. You win. And who is this? This is Simone, and she's a month old as of Friday. Fantastic. So, that's all my news. I got the best news. That is very good news. Oh, beautiful. Sorry. I'm just a doting grandpa. I've got to show off my prize. And she's obviously good. She wasn't screaming and crying. Yes, my daughter is taking the bar next week. So, the baby has been here at the house quite a bit. So, it's been enjoyable. That's wonderful. Wow. Congrats to everybody. Thank you very much. Anything else? You did hear me announce at the beginning that you and Christine have both been reappointed. Yes. Okay. And you probably, hopefully, you already knew that. I think for the rest of my life is how it read. Whatever it is, I'm here. Well, we hope you have a very long life and that it's not the rest of your life. Okay. Well, Mayor. No report. Thank you. And Joanna. No report. Thank you. Well, you have some report because you had a great time in Australia. I had an educational time in Australia. I won't say it was great, but it was education. Well, I can't wait to hear about it. Okay. I do have one other announcement that I did not, that I forgot to bring up in our new business. We'll be talking about Ag Day. And that is, this came to me. I got one because I belong to the American Farmland Trust. And Beth got one to forward on to you all, but it went to her trash or somewhere. And she didn't see it till I reminded her that the American Farmland Trust is going to be honoring Libby Jones for all of her work toward preservation and saving the farmlands here in Kentucky. And this is going to be, and you're all invited. So Beth will be forwarding that invitation to you. It's going to be on August the 7th, and it's at the Thoroughbred Club of America. That's out on Rice Road. And this is going to be from 530 to 730. And it's a cocktail reception and an award ceremony for her. And she did a whole lot helping us at the state level as well, getting our initial funding, our PDR money and helping us with these ordinances. At the same time, she was helping the Woodford County Group and the American Farmland Trust as well as the state program for conservation. So, when you get that invitation forwarded to you, if you can do that, Beth, there's a little square on there about accepting the invitation. They're just trying to figure the number so they'll know about parking and about food. So, please, I would encourage you to respond. And I did forget that because Beth and I just talked about that this morning. Anybody else have anything? Have we been, did everybody get their two cents worth or a nickel or a quarter or whatever with prices going up? A dollar, did you get your dollars worth in? I guess we are ready, Mary Quinn. How are we doing on time? Oh, we're great. We're just now a little after 3.30. We can go into closed session if we've covered everything else. Everybody okay? All right. I will tell you that the time is 3.32, and I'll call for a motion to enter into closed session. Pursuant to KRS 61-810-1B, because we're going to discuss the potential acquisition of a real property interest, and public discussion would likely affect the value. Do I hear a motion? Hannah, is there a second? It's a second, and Robert. And Margaret, if you could get your face on screen so we could make sure and count your vote. All in favor of going into closed session? Raise your hand. Okay. That's unanimous. Beth. Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And I have that it's 338. Okay. So, um, the time is 3 38 and I'd like to call for a motion. To return to open session, Phil, and all in favor, signify by show of hands. Okay. And that's very, and that's Barbara saying, I'm semi see that I can't give you a hand Greg too. I want to have one on the steering wheel. So, having said that, we're back in open session, and I need a motion to authorize an appraisal of farm 22024, 2024. The 1st farm that we looked at on your screen. So, yeah, I want to do them 1 at a time. All right. And we have several moves. So, let's see. That was I heard Margaret who else 2 or 3 common. And is there a 2nd. All right, Phil and Hannah, both 2nd thing. All in favor, show of hands, please. All right. And now I need a 2nd motion and vote to authorize an appraisal of farm for 2024, which was the 2nd farm we viewed on screen. As we discussed in the closed session. Margaret is making that motion. Is there a 2nd? 2nd. 2nd. Mary Quinn and Phil. All in favor, show of hands, please. Okay. That's it. You're okay. Beth. All right. Great. So, now it's just adjournment. I want to remind everybody that when we discuss these things in closed session, whereas we know where these farms are and what's going on, it is to remain totally with us and off the record. Once these farms, the offer has been made and if and when they accept it, once we closed on those and they're filed in the courthouse, then you may discuss it because it's open knowledge and it's public information. Until then, please, for legal reasons, do not discuss these farms with anybody. Again, reminded you all that again. Thank you for coming. Please, again, always let Beth and or me know if you are or are not coming so that we know we do have a quorum. And I'll remind you that your next meeting is August the 27th and you have the 7th for the one for recognition for Libby and you have one on the 20th for our Ag Day. So mark your calendars now and thank you all again, August the 27th. And I'll ask you to say that, give me a motion to adjourn and you can call it a day for this part anyway. Do I have a motion to adjourn? I'll move. Okay, and Hannah, a second. Is there a second? Phil, all in favor signify by show of hands and thank you all again. Thank you. And I know it's an effort, but I really appreciate it. And I think we're doing some good work and we're headed toward our goal. So if you know of anybody else who wants to apply to the small farm or the regular PDR program, or wants to donate to us or to the Conservancy, please do not hesitate to contact Beth or Margaret or me and we'll hopefully make it happen.