# Council Planning Committee - November 18, 2008 > Auto-transcribed civic record · Council · November 18, 2008 - **Permalink**: https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/meeting/656 - **Source video**: https://lfucg.granicus.com/player/clip/656?view_id=14&redirect=true - **Date**: 2008-11-18 - **Body**: Council - **Last revised**: July 16, 2026 - **Length**: 3,339 words > ⚠️ **Auto-generated content.** Audio from the official Granicus video was auto-transcribed by OpenAI Whisper-1. Structured facts were extracted with GPT-4o; the narrative summary was written by Anthropic Claude Sonnet. Speaker labels and verbatim wording may contain errors. See [methodology](https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/about/methodology) or [report a correction](mailto:editor@lexingtonky.news). --- ## Meeting Overview The Urban County Council Planning Committee met on November 18, 2008, at 1:00 PM, with CM Gorton presiding. The committee addressed eight agenda items during the session, with six presented as informational updates and one item postponed for further consideration. The committee took one motion and vote during the meeting. No public comments were heard during this session. The agenda covered a range of planning and development matters, including Development Plan Adherence, the Land Bank program, Special Districts, and Zoning Violation Fines. The committee also reviewed the Electrical Inspector's Fee Schedule and received information on a Day Treatment Facility proposal. One significant item, the Newtown Pike Design Ordinance, was postponed rather than acted upon at this time. The committee also reviewed Items In Committee to track ongoing business. ## Attendance The following council members were present at the November 18, 2008 meeting: * Gorton * Blues * Gray * Ellinger * James * Beard * Stevens * Stinnett * Crosbie * McChord * Myers No council members were absent or late. ## Votes and Decisions The Council voted on recommendations for the H-1 Overlay process. The motion was made by CM Gorton and seconded by CM Ellinger. The motion passed unanimously. ## Development Plan Adherence Chris King, Director of the Department of Planning, provided an update on development plan adherence during this agenda item [timestamp: 00:03:01]. The discussion focused on the process and enforcement of development plans. **Key Participants** The following council members and officials participated in the discussion: - Chris King, Director of Department of Planning - Joe Kelly - Dewey Crowe - Bill Sallee - Marwan Rayan **Presentation and Discussion** Chris King presented information regarding how development plans are monitored and enforced. The discussion covered the processes in place to ensure that development projects adhere to approved plans. **Outcome** This agenda item was informational in nature, with no formal action taken. The council received an update on the current state of development plan adherence and enforcement procedures. ## Land Bank Harold Tate from the Lexington Downtown Development Authority provided an update on the Land Bank during this agenda item. The discussion was informational in nature, with no formal action taken. Tate indicated that he would return to provide further updates on the Land Bank in January 2009, suggesting that the initiative was ongoing and would require continued Council attention in the coming months. ## Special Districts During this agenda item, the Council discussed the H-1 Overlay process. Council Member Myers raised concerns about the current procedures, stating that the process needs to be streamlined. Myers also emphasized the importance of providing timely notifications to relevant parties. This item was presented as informational in nature, with no formal action taken. The discussion focused on identifying areas for improvement in how the H-1 Overlay process operates to ensure it functions more efficiently and keeps stakeholders appropriately informed. ## Zoning Violation Fines Chris King and Dewey Crowe provided an update on zoning violation fines during this agenda item. The discussion was informational in nature, with both speakers addressing the council on this matter. A key point emphasized during the discussion was that the state legislature sets the laws governing zoning violation fines. This clarification established the framework within which local zoning enforcement operates and the limitations on local authority to modify fine structures. The outcome of this agenda item was informational, meaning no formal action or decision was taken by the council at this time. ## Newtown Pike Design Ordinance This agenda item was postponed until the January 2009 meeting. No discussion or presentation details are available from this meeting. ## Electrical Inspector's Fee Schedule Mike Webb, Interim Commissioner, provided an update on the Electrical Inspector's Fee Schedule during this agenda item. Webb indicated that he would return to the Council in January 2009 with comparative information regarding the fee schedule. No specific details about the current fees, proposed changes, or the nature of the comparative analysis were discussed at this meeting. The item was treated as informational in nature, with no formal action taken at this time. The outcome indicates that further discussion and presentation of comparative data will occur at a future Council meeting. ## Day Treatment Facility Commissioner Helm and Lisa Berman provided an update on the Day Treatment Facility during this agenda item. The discussion was informational in nature, with no formal action taken. The specific details of the update, including any new developments, operational status, or proposals related to the facility, were not included in the available meeting materials. ## Items In Committee This agenda item was presented for informational purposes. No motions were brought forward during the discussion of items in committee. --- ## Decisions - **Motion** — passed (0-0): Recommendations for the H-1 Overlay process --- ## Full transcript November the 18th, and we'll go ahead and convene the planning committee. It looks as if we have a quorum here. So, um, our first item of business is the development plan adherence, which Council Member Meyers had moved into committee. Um, we've already had a brief look at this once before, and Mr. Chris King, chair of the Division of Planning, had sent me a memo after we discussed this in planning committee. And so starting on page one in your packet is the memo. And so, Chris, you're already at the podium. I'll let you take it away. Thank you, Ms. Thornton. This is a continuation of discussion that you had back at your September council planning committee. At that time, you requested that the staff look at what might be possible for the council to consider in the way of dealing with plan amendments. So we prepared this memorandum and thought it would be good for you to get a, an inkling of the, the scale of what we're talking about. And, uh, we did a little bit of research and since January of 2004, we found that we had processed over 2,200 subdivision and development plans within the division of planning, and over a thousand of those, roughly 45%, are amended plans. So I think that gives you some idea of the, uh, the scope and scale of the activity that we're looking at. And when you think about the issue, as we note in the memo, there are probably very few of those amendments that create any concern or caused any heartburn on anyone's part. And there are a lot of reasons why you need to do plan amendments and, and why they are an important part of the process. Well, again, the real point of the memo, and we've summarized those here on the handout directly from the memo, was to look at things that the council might consider, uh, in the changes of rules and regulations to deal with amendments. And we've kind of grouped these possibilities from most impact or most restrictive to the least impact, basically running from prohibiting amendments altogether, which again, we don't think is feasible, to making no change in what we do now, um, would certainly have the least impact on systems. But, um, uh, the types of things that we have put out for your consideration, um, would be if you were interested to seek statutory amendments that would give you, as a legislative body, some control over development and/or subdivision plats, which is not the case under current statutes. You could abolish certain types of minor, uh, amended plans and put them under... ... full planning commission review rather than under staff authority, although, that tends to run counter with a lot of other recommendations of the management audit and other folks who have recommended more staff discretion on, uh, a lot of those items. Um, the next one that I think is really somewhat of a recap of the, um, first one about changing some statutory amendments to put certain types of plans perhaps under your legislative control, not all. Um, and then you get into the types of things that, um, really don't affect the process other than to perhaps increase transparency, which would be to require zone change type notice for all or certain types of plan amendments and to refresh your memory, zone change notice involves a sign on the property sending letters to property owners within 400 feet, um, and, uh, is a, a feature of zone change amendments, but not a feature of subdivision and development plan actions. Uh, one thing that we thought may be, uh, a sort of a low impact but very practical would be to require a posting of the sign on a property when amended plan is sought. This is required currently in the expansion area. When we, um, did the expansion area special ordinances back in 1996, uh, it was decided that, um, when we discussed this idea of amendments of plans, uh, and, and even first approval of plans out, in, in that area, uh, a requirement was placed on those that a sign of a certain size and type be posted on the property so that those in the vicinity could be aware that a plan was pending. Um, another type of notice that, uh, could be required is newspaper notice. Uh, again, um, that is a typical standard requirement of zone changes and, and things of that nature. We would kinda offer that it's probably not as effective as other types of notice, in that you have to know what day you're looking for. You have to kinda know you're looking in the legal ads and also there is a cost associated with those, um, posting those ads. So those were some of the ideas we came up with in response to your request and, uh, are ready and glad to discuss these with you, uh, or answer any questions about them. Council members, if you will log in electronically if you have questions, and while we're seeing if anyone has questions, Chris, um, one... I think when this issue first was put in committee, part of it was not about, um, the, the process of changing, of amending a development plan. Part of it, I believe, and Council Member Myers isn't here right now, but... Oh, he is here but he's not at a microphone . Um, I believe part of it had to do with a plan that was on the record but wasn't being followed. That was a piece of it. And if Council Member Myers wouldn't mind to speak to whether that was part of the intent. U- Do you see what I'm... Do you see the difference? So you're talking then enforcement action? Enf- Yes. P- Part of it is this. Right. Um, but part of it, I believe, was the issue of once a development plan is on the books and has been amended or whatever, and it's official, then how do we be sure that it's followed? So- I think that was a part of your discussion in September as well. Yes, yes. But that was, that was not the part we were requesting to follow up on though. Right, right. So I might ask Council Member Myers if I'm reflecting part of what he wanted or not. Yes, Madam Chair. Yes, that is actually correct. Um, originally when I put this in, a lot of times when we have zone change hearings, a lot of the consternation between the neighborhoods, we'll say, and the developer or the builder is that, once a development plan comes through and is approved, if the developer changes that to any big degree, the residents don't have a way to go back and change that, and they're just stuck with whatever happened because the zone allows it. And, um, Councilman Blues had an issue in his district, we don't wanna mention names or anything, but pretty recently that this exact situation occurred on, and during the zone change, we heard a lot of, "This is probably what's gonna happen," and we had a lot of discussion about what can we do to hold their feet to the fire so it doesn't happen, but then again it did. So that's really the, the crux of what I wanna address is, I, you know, I don't wanna be overbearing with regulation, but at the same time, there have to be some safeguards for the fam- for the, the families and the, and the, um, neighborhoods when we pass a zone change based on information that we have, but then the developer or builder doesn't adhere to that. Sure. So it's both a, a question of enforcement, which of course is primarily handled by building inspection for most uses and on some other, uh, types of physical things, sometimes engineering. Um, or, uh, a case of how do you get someone when they make a representation to you in a zone change area that they're really going to follow through on that. And I think as you know, uh, the only tool that you c- have really to do that is through conditional zoning. And you know that, uh, urban county governments are the only type of political entity in Kentucky that enjoy that right, and also that there's pretty severe limitations on what you can do. So again, um, um, part of that comes down to, in your decision-making processes, looking for what kind of safeguards you can place knowing that you can't safeguard everything, unfortunately, under... ... under the laws that, that we have in the, in the state of Kentucky. But, um- Well, if you could take a look at that and maybe come back with some type of, not necessarily recommendation if you don't feel comfortable going that far, but, uh, something that would advise us in there. Because the other way that we can do that then, as a council, is go through a zone change, not allow any information, and basically look at what the legal limits are to that zoning and consider the worst, and then base our decision based on that. Base on the worst, I know. Which I think is gonna be a negative, serve a real negative consequence to everybody involved in Lexington, Fayette County, so we definitely don't wanna take that option. I understand that. Yeah. I think some of the risk, uh, that comes with having a, a system like we do have that's proactive and allows the, not looking at always the worst case scenario, uh, which is our, way our system has evolved lately, um, will still- Well, yeah. ... involve some element of trust. Of course, the, the part that you can get beyond trust and put into restrictions and conditional zoning elements and things like that, again, are limited. And, and the law department can, can, can better advise what the ground rules are and what the, uh, the full extent of the, of, of what powers you have in, in that arena are. What are your thoughts on, in, in your history with LFECG in, in this division of, of planning and your position there, going back over time, has there been situations in the past where the development community and the building community have come together with c- with neighborhoods and, say, the planning staff and the council to look at ways that we could come up with some language that were sorta guidelines that weren't necessarily set in stone and as an ordinance, but would also sort of instruct neighborhoods on how to negotiate those things out? Sometimes we have those negotiated during the za- zone, zone change. Sure. Um, but how do we bring the development community around the table so that e- everybody's involved in the conversation? I mean, they may have some solutions in their shoes, from where they, their perspective, um, "If we were able to do these things, or if we provided you this information, would this help alleviate some of this problem?" So do you have any thoughts on how to bring the development community into the conversation? Well, certainly. I'm, I'm sure, um, they would be glad to, to engage in that conversation. Um, um, I'm not sure if you're suggesting some type of mandatory interaction between a developer and a neighborhood as a prerequisite to a zone change. Um, I'm, I'm trying to get a feel. I, I know you're trying to get to a more collaborative rather than a confrontational model. Right. Right. Right. And, and one in which the guidelines are set up by all parties at the same time. I mean, if we could do this in the off season when it's not a particular zone change at hand that we're looking at and there's motions on both sides, if we could come together and just look at this issue, maybe in a subcommittee or, you know, here we go again with subcommittees and task forces, but if we could bring the group together that needs to be together to come up with some guidelines that would help this process so that when we do get in the middle of a zone change, we're not working on the emotions of the day, but we have this sort of a structured guideline that we, we operate off of. Uh, uh, we would be more than glad to sponsor getting some folks around the table to have that kinda conversation. So, at this point would I make a motion to put together... Do you think it- I'd actually suggest a committee member would make the motion. I'm so sorry. You're right, 'cause I'm not- You're not on the planning committee. I appreciate that you attend regularly, so maybe you need to request it next time. Maybe one of my colleagues would press it. And I don't know- But if one of our colleagues has a motion that- ... what the proper avenue, if it's a task force or a work group or a sub-committee either, depending on the makeup of who we want on there. But if one of my colleagues... Maybe Councilman Blue, since he had this issue- We, we have- ... happen, this issue recently. And we have a couple people who have questions also. So, um, what did you- What- Okay. So Councilmember James has some questions and we'll get back to that. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, thank you, Chris, for being here. I, I think when I saw, when I saw development plan adherence, I think I was thinking, um, not the process either, but thinking what, what do we need to do as an urban county government if, um, the plan is not, does not get developed as, um, some have seen it, whoever it is that's seen it. And I think you led a little bit to that, to say that Building Inspection, it would kinda be up to Building Inspection to go out and take a look at the property as it's developed. Is that- Typically, yes. They are- Can you- ... an enforcement agency. There is no enforcement arm of the Division of Planning. And- So that's, that's through Building Inspection. So they would go to a site and be the enforcement for everything. So if it was trees that were on a development plan that were supposed to be put in, if it was a detention basin, all of that, Building Inspection is then responsible for looking at that? Not all of it. Again, the, what I call the infrastructure side, particularly the public infrastructure side of storm drainage, um, sanitary sewers, public streets or private streets is, uh, through the engineering division. Okay. So it's some Building Inspection and some engineering. And is there, like, a final check-off or something that goes in a file somewhere that says, "Check, they've done everything they're supposed to on the development plan"? Yes, there are. And who keeps those? For the -- each agency keeps them for themselves. For instance, building inspection, usually the culmination of their, their work is an occupancy permit. Okay. And with engineering, I know the engineering manuals process has an elaborate process of, of following through and inspection of infrastructure and statements of compliance and things of that nature. Okay. But one doesn't play off the other, and there's not, like, some, um, completion conversation that happens interdepartmental that says, "We're good to go on all aspects." Yeah, I'm, I'm the wrong guy to have up here to answer that question. Okay. But I'm not aware of any, but I would defer to Marwan, and, uh, Rayon, and, and, and Dewey Crow. And actually, excuse me for interrupting, but Mr. Crow, you're here. I don't see Marwan, but would you want to respond? Is Marwan back there? Nobody hides here. Well, and as Dewey's coming forward, I, I just wanna say that I think for, I, I do think it's important for the neighbors around wherever the development is to, to be informed. But I think bigger than that, I think I was thinking, what are the, what are the negative effects of a development plan not being followed? So what happens, not just, you know, are we communicating about the change, but, you know, is there a street put in in an area where there wasn't supposed to be put a street, and that affects some water runoff or something, and affects a neig- a neighborhood, um, in some type of manner? And I don't know how, how those things are dealt with necessarily, and maybe you can shed some light on your process for the development plan adherence. Well, Chris is correct in stating that there are various parts of any particular development that gets handled by different divisions within government. Typically, you're gonna get the infrastructure items being done by engineering. They're going to verify that those have been done as part of their process. Uh, traffic engineering is gonna look at such stuff as access ways, traffic flow, uh, parking layouts and arrangements as part of a development. They're gonna look at those issues and approve those as being done. We kinda come in, at the end of that, we're gonna look at the building construction. We're gonna see that that's obviously in compliance with the building code, in compliance with the development plan as to where that building should have been placed, and verify the uses that go into that building, that they're in compliance with the zoning, uh, requirements and/or any restrictions on the development plan. Landscaping issues is gonna, we were gonna verify that those get done, follow that through. All those things are checkoff items for us. Although we don't necessarily, uh, follow the checkoff process for each one of the divisions, we do verify that they have approved what needed to be done before we can issue an occupancy permit for the building or portions of the building. Typical, as you'll see in lots of the commercial developments, you will have a large master development plan for, say, a large shopping complex, strip mall, or that, uh, something of that nature. You will, uh, that obviously gets done in a phased-in kind of process. In other words, you will get the infrastructure items being done, access, traffic, may be completed on portions of it. The buildings then may get built and occupied, and we're turning those loose and allowing them to be occupied as that, as that, uh, development wave moves on through that whole, through that development. So you're gonna have at times, portions of the development complete for occupancy, everything satisfied. Other ends of the project will not be done because they'll be in process. So it all comes, you know, kind of piecemeal at times, but it follows through as, so what parts the developer is wanting to get done at any particular time. To answer your basic question, I don't know that anybody keeps a ma- one huge checkoff list from each division that has a part of this. They, each division keeps their own. We verify, again, that all those things for a particular building have been done and are in place before we issue an occupancy permit. Okay. So for, going back to something you said about the landscaping. So if the tree canopy that's required for that particular development, um, you would go out and you would determine whether all the trees have been planted that are necessary? That's correct. Okay. We follow up on the required landscaping. Um, sometimes you won't see it put in. If they're required to do landscaping, this time of year, you're, we're probably outside of, getting outside of the planting, typical planting, uh, area. We would bond, uh, typically, uh, take bond money on that landscap-