♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ I mentioned this morning to Commissioner Lantern, it's unfortunate with the way due process sometimes gets in the way, but we are winning 1,000 cuts at a time on these folks, these large corporations that are plundering our housing stock. But this will enhance that ability for me to go ahead and look beyond before it gets to that level. That's what I know about it so far. I'll bring more to you any time you want, you can contact me any time and I'll break it down for you as much as I know today. I'm learning as we go on that. No, that's great. I love when we can improve our processes with a data-driven approach and I really take to heart what you're talking about with some of the bad actors, our slumlords basically, and I feel like there are really two paths for them to go and this is where we come in. We either make them improve and do better and improve the conditions of their tenants or we drive them out of business. But those are really my two favorite options and I think that's what we're going towards. I believe Councilman Reynolds may be asking this question, but I'll go ahead and think this is a good segue into that. We're constantly looking at a way to make the bad actors understand the seriousness of what we're here to do. And right now we've just, within last week and this week, started looking at the first time ever this code enforcement division will actually implement a daily fine instead of going through our normal procedures. This daily fine, we can either do the system we have in place escalates each fine so it maxes out at $2,500 or we may come up with just what is a daily fine number, whether that be $250 a day or whether we let it reach $2,500 and then go that per day. Right now it's a few weeks away from the order codes being built and what we have to address next is how would that work on the appellate side when the appeal comes in. If we issue daily on Monday and Tuesday and the mail hits and they appeal Monday, does it bucket in the whole week or is it just for Monday's fine? Those are the questions law is trying to help us with. Once we get that worked out, that will be a good tool in our box to work with. Yeah, looking forward to it. Thank you, Director. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Council Member Beasley. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Director. And thanks for always answering my questions. I think you and housing are the two people I call the most, so I appreciate you. I do just have just a quick couple questions for you. One, I was talking about you at a meeting today and I'm just making sure that what I told them was true. So if you fine me for my sidewalk and you send me a citation or whatever in the mail, does it include the information about the match program for the sidewalks? All of the information comes on the original notice of violation. It's six, seven pages. When we send out a citation, that citation is limited down to just one page, two pages at best if we run over for signatures. The citation will not—we will have limited information compared to the original notice. So we give them that—like the code enforcement gives them the information about the match program when you cite them, right? And actually, we got a question from that internally today from another one of our sister divisions about some wording. And we're still trying to hone in what works to the public because we find a lot of people don't even access the cost share program because they feel it's income-based. And we talk about that on page five. If you're an owner-occupied homeowner, you qualify for the 50 percent reimbursement. And on page six, we discuss if you're income-based, look at this income model and see where you fit and call the number and then we'll do an intake. Believe it or not, a lot of folks don't get past page two. They just—they see what it is and that's it. And that's what I find. And I don't know how to achieve better success at that, but we're working on trying to get the language in the first paragraph or so that's so emboldened that you do not have—it's not income-based to get the cost share. It only is to access the 100 percent. But if needed, on the citations, we'll start adding more language to it if needed. I have always—when I go back and look into Salesforce or something, I've always said to myself the citation is just a brief of what the notice of violation was. So if they've already lost account of that, they don't really know where they're at. But the ones that do call in, we don't require them to do an open records request. If somebody calls in and says I've lost their notice, we get an email and we send it right to them anytime. I don't know if that answers— It does. It does. My other question was, do we not have—so if I were to own a rental property like I was to own a row of duplexes or townhouses or whatever, do we not have a cost share program for that as well? It has to be owner-occupied. Yeah. Currently, we do not provide any assistance for commercial property. We consider anything for profit as a business is not qualified. That would be any commercial businesses at all, commercial rental property, et cetera. Okay. And then my last question for you is, have you ever thought about doing any of those new homeowner classes not with Habitat? I would be glad to. I don't—just—you're talking about an inception of a new program just to do new homeowner's classes? Maybe. Yeah. Well, we should talk about it and see what comes of it. I don't know— Okay. —how that would work, but— All right. I'll email you. I have to see where our customer base would come from. I mean, just—you're talking about just, like, kind of a right to know to the public on how to maintain your property and things, et cetera. Mm-hmm. Like, whatever you're doing with the Habitat new homeowner. I actually got quite a bit of literature in my office I can send you, and you'll look at some of the things I've done. Okay. It's like—one of my favorite ones is how to winterize your house for the fall, in the fall. Oh. It tells you everything you should do around the house before winter comes, to keep from having line breaks and gutters falling off from too many leaves in them, getting frozen water. So— Yes. If you'll send me that, that'd be good just for even our senior citizen community, knowing, like, how to unplug your hose and put one of those things over your faucet outside. Yeah. Exactly. All right. Thank you. You're welcome. You're welcome. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Councilmember Beasley. Thank you. Councilmember Hale. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Director, for the presentation. I just got a quick—just a quick question. I'm just curious to see that you are utilizing the facilities at CTE in the back. I'm very familiar with that college over there. I used to—I was an instructor over there, and I just want to ask—I heard you say you all do some recruiting from UK, and that's—and then you all go—y'all go there on, like, every other Friday to go back there and kind of, like, look at the—they call it the stick house back there. I may have misspoke about recruiting from UK. We're seeing more architecture students out of UK apply for jobs at our office, and their architecture certificate from University of Kentucky puts—blankets them right into the certified building program without—there's no question. They get into the program, so we kind of look at—and most of these folks, we just recently our youngest employee ever, 24 years old, has come from that, and that's what I meant when I—we're just seeing more people apply. We're not actually recruiting from UK. But to your question, I think if that's where you're going, we—I put some business cards up just this past Friday. I see CTE as a great place to recruit from. Yeah. Amazing. They have all the trades and knowledge right there. If we can compete with what a HVAC or a plumber or an electrician would make, then we might grab somebody. We typically get them on the back end, Councilman Morrell, is after they've worked 35, 40 years doing that, they're ready to come do our job with the knowledge they have. We would love to see it on the—go the other way. Yeah. And we try to—so I will try to do recruitment there for sure. All right. Awesome. All right. Thank you. Thanks, sir. Thank you. Well, I want to chime in on a few things, but first of all, thank you once again for all your hard work and for being so available to do outreach for all of our meetings and with our constituents and being so responsive. I've seen a lot of changes over the past few years, and I really appreciate them. A few years ago, we talked about improving the conditions in neighborhoods that have a lot of poorly maintained housing. And you mentioned that with Cardinal Valley, and I really appreciate the work that you've done there and working, you know, with us on that. How do you foresee in the future how you might be able to expand that to, you know, other parts of town that have similar needs? Well, I definitely am going to use this opportunity with the data enforcement, showing me where to move staff. And we're more than willing to move territories and pull them down and work. In your case, in Cardinal Valley, they're at about year two, and it's taken that—we've had so much happen over there, how could it even scratch the surface? But what we're noticing is, after year two of putting somebody in a small area and having them focus heavy on the multi-housing, we're seeing movement of actually corporations selling and moving out. And we have a lot of tools in our box to help—condemnation, obviously, is a dirty word, a lot of people hate to hear it, but unfortunately, our fines have not worked in the corporation model. They can sustain it way longer than a local landlord. So condemnation has been a necessity to maintain. That takes away their ability to rent. And that is where the real leverage comes from when you're trying to improve a way of life for someone to live in, the living conditions. When you take away the ability for them to earn income on it, it makes a total difference. So that is one of the things I found out through this process working in your district, was we weren't getting very far with the fine structure we had. I don't think the fine structure needed to be increased. It was just that we're dealing with a different animal when you're dealing with an out-of-state conglomerate that owns millions and millions of dollars in our city. They just don't see the same level of impact that a local landlord would see. We get far more compliance out of local landlords than we do out-of-state. I will say that I want to do other programs. I already have some districts picked out to where I feel like it would be warranted. And we'll see where this data-driven enforcement stuff goes. And if not, we'll get with Commissioner Lantern and see about maybe continuing that pilot program in some other districts. Well, thank you. We have so many wonderful landlords in Lexington. Unfortunately, sometimes we have ones that aren't so great. And we have folks living in difficult conditions. So once again, I appreciate you addressing that. And then with the data-driven enforcement, we have a lot of that data. It's just how it is, how it looks, and how accessible it is. Is that correct? That's correct. Okay, so this is more kind of rearranging it in a way that's more user-friendly. But it's something that we have and that someone could get with an open records request. Right now, we're just trying to arrange it to where staff can learn how to mine it first and get it and use it. And then once we go that far, of course, it would be open to the public. But everything pretty much that we do is open as public records. So I think that's right now is they have to build what we need. We have to learn how to use it, and then we can push it out and share it. Okay, thank you. And I know we'll be following up with that and are very interested in that. Another thing you mentioned was the vacant land. Vacant properties, what type of actual properties are there? I think when we looked at that, there actually weren't very many. So are there any- I mean, the VPRC, when in its inception, I was the first field operative for that venture. And there was a little bit over 600 cases that I worked throughout that first year or two. They're below 70 or 80 right now in this next meeting. I'm well below 100. I'm not going to put a number on it, but I do believe it's below 80 after nearly eight plus years of running that. What we find is in a true abandon is a single family. We're not finding many multi-housing, duplex, fourplex, something like that. Not finding apartment buildings very often that are abandoned that would be in VPRC. Truly, the VPRC right now, in my opinion, all it needs is, if we want to keep it and make it useful, is to enact a part of it that actually has an arm that pushes it forward. So currently, you get the 1% ad valorem tax indefinitely, and that's all that happens. In the community that built this, Paducah, Kentucky, there is a trigger at some point when it reaches a certain amount of money. The city there steps in and tries to take it through them in a domain. They actually rehab it there, which is a business I don't want to be in. They rehab the property fully, because they don't want to turn over another dilapidated property on somebody in hopes they can get loans to do it. They rehab it fully, and then they sell it on the market. Or they may use it in affordable housing programs. I haven't discussed that with anybody in Paducah in nearly ten years, since we came up with the blighted, abandoned, dilapidated property is where the foreclosure program came for in our office. It sisters up with the VPRC. But that's all that commission really needs, is if you want to make it really useful, is to have an arm that triggers what's next, and not the indefinite tax. because at the levels of 1%, it rarely reaches the levels that what I'm hearing are, and this is second hand knowledge, that the courts here in Lexington, they don't want these small cases coming in of 5,000 or less dollars and asking for a foreclosure action. They want it to be something substantial. So there are ways to make the VPRC bear more on the community, but we need to enact it if we want to keep it. Thank you for that information. Yeah, I think that's what we were seeing, was it just seemed like there wasn't a next step. There wasn't something to happen, and so then they just kind of stay in this limbo for a long time. So, thank you again for your presentation. We appreciate you. Thank you. Any other questions? We're good. Thank you. Finally, we have an update on eviction, diversion, and right to counsel. And Vice Mayor Wu, as a sponsor of this item, I will turn it over to you for background and opening remarks. Thank you, Chair. I don't have too big of an introduction. Some of my colleagues will remember this item started in early 2023 when the Kentucky tenants came to us with the Tenants Bill of Rights, which we kind of broken up into different pieces and different council members were working on elements of it. So this is an update on the eviction, diversion, and right to counsel program, which has been running for the last several years. So I'll turn it over to Commissioner Lanter. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Just real quick before I get started, just two seconds of personal privilege. I just want to say how much I appreciate Lee and what a great job he does. And I push really hard on Lee and he never says no. And he always looks for a way to get things done. So I really appreciate that. But to talk about the Housing Stability Services Program, just quick refresher. This is the program that we started with the ERAP money, the Federal Emergency Rental Assistance Program money that we got from ARPA. And originally some of the COVID response funds, we received over $50 million in rental assistance. And as that program started to wrap up, the federal government allowed you to use it for more programmatic things. And so we looked into what are we going to need once this is gone? What are we going to need once all of this millions and millions of dollars of rental assistance is gone? Because if we learned anything from $50 plus million of rental assistance, it's that rental assistance doesn't solve the problem. Because we still had people getting evicted, we still had lots of turnover, and many of the people we paid rental assistance for were still turning up in eviction court once that assistance ran out. So we built the Housing Stability Services Program, which has been through multiple iterations and evolutions over the past couple of years, driven largely by the funds that are available and the partners that are available. So where we are at now is Legal Aid of the Bluegrass is our primary partner. They are operating the program to provide eviction prevention and diversion assistance in Fayette District Court. Forcible Detainer Court is held, for those who aren't familiar with it, in Fayette District Court five days a week, Monday through Friday. That's a lot of eviction cases. So the common refrain is to call it the rocket docket because we move them through fast and lots of folks are getting put out. So that's what this program is seeking to prevent. They, in addition to having a help desk that's available to answer questions outside of eviction court, they are able to provide direct actual legal assistance to a certain number of folks, as well as we do a mediation program as part of this with the Lexington Housing Authority. And I can tell you that since this program was initiated, there have been essentially no evictions from the Housing Authority for non-payment of funds. That does not mean there have been no evictions. There have been some cases where there are non-payment issues that come into play, or cases where it maybe wasn't best to resolve it that way. But for the most part, that's been the fact. So really productive. Our partners in this are, as I said, Legal Aid of the Bluegrass. There's a mediation component, and we use a third party mediator for that. So the Center for Conflict Resolution and Leadership handles that piece. The Lexington Housing Authority, as I said, is our mediation target. We are working to prevent folks from getting evicted from housing authority properties, because that is the housing of last resort. And if you are evicted from a housing authority property, you are going to end up in Jeff Heron's office, because there are very few options available for you now for rental. The district court, all of the judges are very active in this program and very appreciative of this program. And then obviously, the landlords sometimes do, sometimes don't participate. But they are a party to this project. We began in 23 using a portion of the federal grant funds. As those were exhausted in 24, we were fortunate to get some funds from the fund balance to keep it going in 24. And then we needed a little extra in 25, again, from the fund balance to keep things going. Council Member Lynch, the first time, Council Member Brown came through on those. And the mayor has proposed $400,000 in her budget to continue the program. And we believe that will continue us in through the rest of the FY 27 fiscal year. Just a little bit on the results. This program's a moving target, and it depends on what you're doing, who you're doing it for, when you're doing it, and all those things as to what it accomplishes. But in general, there are a few data points that you want to look at. The first is how do we focus on keeping people housed, and that is through the actual legal intervention. This program actually has attorneys that work with people and take them on as clients through legal aid to provide that direct assistance. The other number that's much bigger is the more significant reach, the 7,225, that's where the touch is. That's how many times we're touching people. I mentioned the help desk out front, it's the ability to answer questions, to give advice. It's not necessarily a full legal representation, but it's still a way of assisting indirectly to make sure folks have the information they need to move forward. And they're able to prevent displacement 70 to 90% of the time. Does that mean the person always keeps their unit? Absolutely not, it does not. Many of the times they're working in a case where the person is so far behind that it's actually not going to be salvageable. What we're trying to do in that case is we're trying to prevent the eviction from being put on the person's record. So sometimes you can come to an agreement, you've got an attorney there, you can say, look, if my client's out in three days, can you just dismiss the case, no harm, no foul to anyone? A lot of times landlords will do that, it saves them money, it saves them trouble and time as well. It's a win for everyone. That's one of our outcomes. Obviously our ideal outcome is the rent gets paid and the person stays in there and it's an active lease. But that is not always possible in every case that we're working on. But the important thing to remember, this is essentially a homelessness prevention program. We don't run it through the Office of Homelessness, we run it out of the Commissioner's office. Because it touches so many different parts of what we do. But if someone were to be evicted and run into our homeless shelter system, they are going to run you $10,000 to $20,000 a year in taxpayer expenses. So for $800 to $2,000, you can prevent that from ever happening. And if that person becomes chronically homeless and ends up homeless for 20 years, you might have just saved yourself $1 to $5 million in taxpayer expenses. So the return on investment for this can be really significant. You may have seen some bus ads that Legal Aid's running to get the word out. One of the challenges you run into with this is a sense of inevitability. Tenants get that notice, they know they owe money, they know they don't have money, so they just move out. And the problem with that is if the landlord doesn't dismiss the eviction, even though you've really done what they wanted, eviction still goes on your record and you will not be able to rent an apartment when they see that on your record. So we really want to get this out to people and make sure that they know this is available so that we can try to prevent those things from happening. We've got some great ads on the buses, we've got some billboards, and we've been really happy with those. And then finally, just a few things about what we can look at for the future in managing this. We do need to look at how we're going to stabilize the funding for this program. It's been piecemealed. We originally funded it out of a grant, and the grant ended, we've kind of used fund balance, now we're putting it into the budget. I've looked at some of the HUD funding programs we have in grants about maybe could we use some of that funding? That's one possibility. But really, we need to make sure that we cannot worry from year to year if we're going to be able to continue doing this, because it's really become an important part of our system. We have an opportunity to align this more with our Office of Homelessness Prevention Intervention. Everyone knows we have our Mayor's Task Force on Homelessness is working right now, and one of the things they've been looking at is prevention. And how our system doesn't really spend a lot of time and resource on prevention. It's very reactive, and we feel like coupling this with what they're doing might be a way to expand that and do more prevention through the OP side of the operation. Data tracking and reporting consistency, this can be a difficult program to get data on. And one of the things that I really want to get into as we do this for more years is, what are the long term outcomes? So for the people we were able to project and protect, how many of those were able to maintain their housing? How many of them were able to maintain stability? Or if all we were able to do was prevent the eviction from going on your record, how did that impact your ability to get additional housing down the road? If it worked, great. If not, then that means we've been celebrating something that didn't work. So that's that issue of having to track someone down a year after you've helped them to see where they stand. And then finally, we have a lot of different rental assistance programs throughout the community. Many of them operate at LFUCG, some not. But I think our ability to connect all of those things together, and this has been sort of the bane of everyone's existence in the social services world for decades, is how do we get all those services to work together and collaborate and coordinate to make sure that someone's not over here getting evicted while someone's over here with money that could have helped them? That's pretty rare, to be honest with you. No one's just sitting on assistance that they're not spending. But sometimes just making that connection is all you need. So we've been really pleased with how that's gone. And I really would wrap things up just by thanking the folks from Legal Aid of the Bluegrass. They have been really great to work with. Their executive director, Robert Johns, is here, as well as Karen Hoskins, and Jesse Agra, who's the attorney in the program. So if you all have questions that I can't answer, I will turn to one of them. But they have been a phenomenal partner, and we're glad to have them here. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner. You had five minutes to spare. I donated those to Lee. All right, colleagues, does anybody have anything that they would like to ask? All right, Vice Mayor. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Commissioner, for your work. I'm a big fan of a good return on investment, and I appreciate you pointing that out, that this costs less than one month's worth of sheltering somebody. And beyond that, obviously, it's a much better outcome for that person that we're talking about, for the residents, so I appreciate that. Going back to some of those numbers where we're kind of gauging our success, I noticed the estimated percentage preventing displacement. I'm guessing that's a really hard number to nail down. How do you all calculate that percentage? Well, sometimes we don't know whether we prevented displacement, and we think we did, and so that's one part of that. I report on this data from Legal Aid, so wouldn't you all want to come up, maybe, and talk about the data collection process and how you're reporting it? Good afternoon. Every case that we handle, we've got a electronic case management system that we track the cases. And our attorneys put information into that system. And when we close the case, we have what we call a main benefit that we track. Or main benefits, actually, because it can be more than one benefit that we're able to achieve. So one of the benefits is stopping an eviction. Another benefit is delaying an eviction for an opportunity for the move out, as Commissioner Lanter mentioned, without an eviction on the record. So we've got a system where we're able to track the cases that are handled and the outcomes, and then we're able to provide that information to Commissioner Lanter. So does that answer your question? Yeah, it does, and it kind of leads me to another sort of thought. Do we do any follow up with the folks that have come through these cases in this system? I'm thinking about it kind of in the context of our paramedicine program, where we're kind of trying to identify some of our quote frequent flyers, folks who are kind of in the system and out of the system a lot. And I would imagine in this process, we're going to see some of those same folks as well. And the idea of kind of the regular check-in and to see what other underlying issues are kind of informing them coming into the system. Do we have any thoughts around that sort of follow through? Well, it's an issue that I've been in legal aid over 30 years. It's something we really want to be able to do to check the short, medium, long term impact of the services we provide. The real challenge for us, though, is the resources to do that. Right now, we simply don't have the people power or other resources necessary to be able to do that, but it's something that we think about. We've thought about trying to get maybe volunteers at times, that hasn't panned out. But it's certainly something that's on our mind that we would like to do, but currently don't have the ability to do. Yeah, that'd be something I'd be interested in kind of exploring, too, because I think so much of social services like this is kind of slapping Band-Aids on. And Band-Aids are very, very necessary to staunch the bleeding, but for us to kind of make an investment at looking at underlying issues and how we can prevent those wounds from happening in the first place. Commissioner Lanter, looking at, I think it was one of your last slides, you mentioned the idea of having more stable funding. In your perfect world, what does that funding structure look like? It's hard to say. In my perfect world, I think the state would pay for this through the administrative office of the courts, because it's a function of the court system, but that's not going to happen. So I think, ideally, what I would like to do is find a balance of funding through what we've got access to through HUD, because I think HUD would have a lot of interest in funding this kind of thing in alliance with their work. Coupled with, to the extent necessary, general funds, but I think we can get there. I think what I'm more concerned about is the number. I think 400,000 is kind of there, and we'll see in the next year what that looks like. But we've done this with a couple of different numbers. We started at like 750, then we kind of squeezed in and did it for a little bit of like 300. It's sort of scalable, I mean, you can kind of do it as big or as small as you want. And so, I think what we want to do is kind of, let's run it for a year on this 400 and see where we stand and kind of go from there. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Council Member Beasley. Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Commissioner, for that presentation. I just do have just a couple questions, just because I don't know. So, what can I be evicted from the Lexington Housing Authority for that would end me up in Jeff's office? That's not financial? Is that? So is that the biggest one is like not paying rent? Most evictions are financial. Most evictions are for non-payment. I think, I don't want to put a number on it, but I mean, you're talking like in the 90s. But if your question is what are some examples of things that are non-financial that could get you, one of the most common we see is hoarding. Hoarding can be a really significant issue, particularly with housing authority residents, because we see a lot of seniors. That's an example, the legal term is material breach of lease. So, things that not maintaining the property correctly or too many police calls, there's any number of things and every lease is different. It's not a common reason for evictions, but it is something we deal with. If they're being evicted because of non-payment of rent, does the housing authority usually work with us in this program pretty well to let us catch, and by us, I mean your office, catch their rent up and let them stay if it's not like a hoarding or non-financial? Yeah, yeah, if it's just a financial issue, yes, absolutely, this program works well for that. The only cases where we run into trouble is where there's a financial issue and there's a non-financial issue. So then you're trying to work through, well, if we take it to the financial, sometimes they still want to push, pursue the eviction because of the non-financial issue. And that's where having a legal representative in the room can help the tenant have a little more slay in that argument and maybe be able to make it and stay in the unit. And then, I guess this is kind of like a housing paramedicine program we need to start. If they get evicted for non-financial, like hoarding or whatever, do we try to get them some mental health for that? Or what does that look like after the eviction, or do we even know? There's, it's going to be case by case. But if, and I can tell you there's not a good solution right now for hoarding, and it's something that we run into a lot with our housing advocates. We are finding resources that are sort of psychological folks you can refer to that work with hoarding. But it is a really uphill battle getting folks who struggle with that to agree to help. And so that's really the bigger challenge is, and who's responsible for making that connection? Is it the person putting them out? Is it us? Is it the family? And I think one of the problems you run into is everyone's doing this. Everyone thinks it's someone else's responsibility to make that connection. Often it ends up being our office, either through the housing advocates or through OB or someone else. Just because otherwise that connection doesn't get made. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chair. Thank you. Council Member Martin. Thank you. I just had just one quick question, just for, so I know that we're mentioning Lexington Housing Authority, but any tenant in Lexington can access this resource? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, we just only do the mediation at the Housing Authority. Okay, cool, cool, cool. And then I'll just show, I think that this program is critical, and I think it's a smart investment. And I think you emphasized it earlier, that prevention and intervention piece. When we're just spending less dollars here, knowing that on the back half, we're going to spend much more. And then even more so, just that humane, just more humane to address it from this side, rather than trying to address the challenge after someone has already been evicted and pathway in that way. So I think this program is a great investment and a strong program that can help our tenants. So I appreciate the work that you're doing within it. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, I don't see anyone else signed up. So I want to thank you, Commissioner. Thank you for the update, and we'll be looking for ways to fund this. Thanks everyone so much, and I appreciate your support for this program. Thank you. Our last agenda item is a list of committee items. I think most of you are scheduled for your items, but does anyone have any update, or would anyone like to remove anything from committee? I don't see anybody signed in. Okay, then if there's no further ado, we have reached the end of our agenda, and we are adjourned. Thank you.