Thank you. Thank you. 39 years. Honey, I can't remember. Well, all I got to say is, like, everything you do, if they do the point, you can fly. I'm glad they've seen it. That's exactly right. Happy birthday, Frank. Okay. Our first item on the agenda is the Blue Sky First Draft presentation. Hello, folks. I'm Sam Castro from Tenelle Spengler Walsh and Associates. A lot of this is going to be information that you all have seen before, but we have the full plan, the full document. I'm assuming it was sent out, or it will be sent out right after this. Yes? So this is just going to be kind of a real quick summary preview of the information that you'll find in there. Maybe? Yeah, just kidding. This is it. It's just the cover. Am I going to have to? I'll just talk you through it, Hal. You're just going to stand back there and press it for me. Rachel's going to do it. Okay. So just so we set the stage for this, the Blue Sky Small Area Plan is sort of in a, it comes at the tail end of the Urban Growth Master Plan, which we completed several years ago now. And so this all had to do with the 2840, I think it was total, that was brought in as part of that urban growth master plan. But we knew that we needed to look at Blue Sky separately because it was so very different from the, you know, from the greenfield developments that we were looking at in the rest of the UGMP. So the Blue Sky Small Area Plan is looking at 303-ish acres of an area that's really already developed all the way out. But it is aging infrastructure. It was developed mostly in the 70s and 80s. There's been very little new development since 2000 on, except for maybe some of the refurbishment that Elliott has done to a lot of their buildings. And then now, of course, they're building their new executive offices out there. And those are going up very quickly, we discovered when we were out there for our engagement about a month ago. It's anchored by several large companies. Um, as we can see, um, Odessa is right there in the middle. It's sort of Odessa Carvana is what they call themselves now. Um, and they are of course, uh, you know, um, they get cars in and cars out. They're moving cars kind of constantly there. Um, there's also Coparts, which is another, um, auto auction site, but they're more of like a, you know, strip and salvage, um, type place. And then there's the Elliott family of companies, which is everything from electrical to film space, et cetera. And then there's really a ton of shops of specialty trade back there. There's over 100 businesses in total in the Blue Sky area. And it's one of the kind of unique places in Lexington where we do get to see a lot of those smaller businesses doing the sort of light industrial work that we really want to promote because they're feeding into some of our bigger industrial and commercial needs for the city. Next one, Rachel. And, no, you're good, you're good. But the other thing, too, is that, you know, y'all are well aware that to just to the west of the site, we have the areas four and three, four and five, really, of the UGMP. So the idea is we'll see a lot of potential future growth in those areas. We're already seeing some development plans come in on those. So we know that the that the movement is there. And so this is really going to be a continuation of that energy. You also have Sayers Athletic Complex, which is, you know, kind of just catty corner up to the north part of the site. Really, you know, when you drive back there, and again, if you haven't been back there, I would encourage you all to go during the day, during the week, and see just how busy and well used it is. and also the fact that it's really well maintained for what it is, for the industrial uses that are out there. The businesses really care about the spaces that they're in. Next. Much of the vast majority of the zoning out there is zoned I-1, which is our light industrial zone. We have a teeny bit of B-3, which is the highway serving business, A lot of that is actually still either just parking lot or is just Greenfield at the moment. So that's one of the few areas where we still have yet to see some development. And then the P1 that is sort of right there at the first entry to Blue Sky is where the Teamsters sit. And then we really are also taking into account this pocket here of the B5P, which is sort of all that, your very traditional highway serving business, which from the UGMP we're really hoping will eventually turn over and become more of a gateway and less of a just highway exit type of deal. um the site is very hilly very topographically challenged we get about almost 130 feet of grade change from athenspoonsboro back to the creek that bisects the site and that really plays into a lot of the challenge that we talked about in terms of this becoming you know i think that And maybe some people were hoping that this would be a great place to do like a huge shovel-ready flat site for, you know, all of CommerceLex's needs. That is not this. It's very challenged. The only areas that's really kind of flat at the moment is the crosstalk location where the former UPS facility was. That area is pretty flat. But other than that, we've got a lot of grade change to take up with. So, we'll get you through a little bit of our public engagement. We've really made huge efforts, and by we, I want to say staff, especially Eve, has made just a huge amount of effort to reach everybody that we possibly could out in the site, including basically going door-to-door to every business that's out there and inviting them to the two barbecues that we had. And so we had really great turnout and really great input then from the folks that were out there. And I really feel like this is a plan that they have been able to have a lot of say in and get a lot of buy-in in. We heard a lot of things, but some of the big things that we heard that were really standing out are prioritizing the ability to walk, especially around the site. You know, gone are the days of, you know, people just staying in their office or just going out on their trucks and coming back. There are a lot of people that work out there all day to support the folks that go out and back, or there are just a lot of people that want to take a lunch break and get away from their desk or from, you know, the work that they're doing. So they are already walking around the site, but there's no sidewalks out there. And so it's very dangerous because there's, you know, concrete trucks, there's lift trucks, there's everything that's like zooming by out there. So a lot of the recommendations in here are really health safety and welfare recommendations, first and foremost, but then also, you know, health in terms of like passive recreation and things for people to do. We also heard a lot about the fact that there just isn't anywhere to eat out there, and there's not enough time for them to take a lunch break to go any place other than McDonald's or Merchie Max or the new Dairy Queen. So they're really just hoping for anything else out there. We even had them in this last round of engagement. We had them do sort of an implementation exercise where they could vote and put their money in their priorities, and food definitely came out top. And then next was really a reliable power network. Their power grid goes out quite a bit because they don't have a redundant system out there yet. They're looking into it, but that's very challenging. It'll go out on a nice day for a day or two, and that's a real killer for some small businesses out there. Next. Okay. So we ran through these framework concepts pretty well already. But like I said, first and foremost, we had to tie this into the plans from the UGMP. And so that has everything to do with continuing, thinking about connectivity and pushing connectivity as much as we can. and that's an especially interesting challenge on a site that's already built out. We're not just drawing empty lines into the distance. We're having to think about where those roads already exist, especially as we think about the western edge and Cane Break and what's happening over there. Thanks. So really the sort of big moves that you'll hear me talk about or you've already heard me talk about is this idea of this executive industrial campus, which is a little bit of the direction Elliot's already gone in and what we heard from strategic location advisors is becoming more common in industrial areas across the country, which is that the execs really want to be co-located with the areas that are doing their warehousing, their manufacturing. But in a lot of cases, our current regs, and Caleb will get into this, don't allow for that in the way that they want it to be in more of a campus setting. Like I said, desire for walkability, functional green space. So that is everything from, you know, providing more street trees. But also there are a few areas that are depressions that are natural stormwater elements that are out there. And so we just think there's a way that we can make those even more high functioning if you put a little effort into them. and really help capture a lot of that stormwater and that runoff that's naturally sheet flowing now off of all of that pavement into our creek. So really having that work for us. Improved safer access. So this has everything to do with how vehicles are getting around the site, moving around the site, slowing that traffic down while still acknowledging that freight does need to move in and around the site, but also trying to make it very obvious that beyond blue sky, you get into rural, you know, rural, a rural section very quickly. And those trucks don't need to be accidentally going towards Athens. They just need to stay and do their loop in blue sky and, and move along. And then, you know, again, we have, you know, we really need to protect where we have industrial still in the city. And so maintaining that industrial character is very important and not having that change and just become straight commercial. That's not the idea of this. The idea is that we need to acknowledge that the way industry works has changed slightly. And so some of those uses is really where we're going with this industrial ZODA. so um like we talked about before the initial phase is really the low-hanging fruit the things that we can accomplish in the next you know five to ten years if we could find the money and that has everything to do with the addition of sidewalks and side paths the you know doing some of those improvements along athens boonesboro so continuing the arc cuts and the improvements that they're doing out all the way up to basically the stadium now and thinking about continuing those as far as blue sky. And then really starting to think about that, the central pond, I'm using my hands, not using that thing, really starting to think about that back stormwater amenity area and the fact that the city owns that and that we could begin work on that, you know, as, as funds become available to make that an amenity. But again, like I said, a performative landscape that can help with, um, stormwater runoff. Um, one of the other big things that, um, that we're tackling. So like I said, it's, um, we think there's enough right of way out there for most, for the most part to be able to do a 10 foot side path on one side, on the outer side of Blue Sky, and then a five-foot sidewalk on the inner loop. Obviously, there will be some challenges with easements, especially on the eastern half, where Elliott really has a lot of their campus already today. But a lot of those buildings are just kind of parking in the front. So it's sort of like just one big continuous, just pull in and park in front of your building. So that's sort of an ongoing challenge, but one that I think is a good one to make. And then really the other big thing that we're looking at is the intersection of Cutters Hill and Blue Sky and making that a three-way stop right now, because what ends up happening is the concrete trucks come flying down the hill and they make that turn really fast into the two concrete factories that are there. And we've heard from many people, not just walkers, but people driving that they've almost been clipped by those by those concrete trucks. So it feels like just a matter of time before something bad happens out there. So we want to get ahead of that. Um, and then the same thing on Athens Boonesboro, um, there's the opportunity to do a side path on the Northern edge, which would really continue that side path that, um, that the city has been looking at anyway, that would get up to Brenda Cowan beyond eventually to cross over to the sporting club. And then this could continue on. The second phase, which is, again, very long, you know, we're thinking long-term. These are comp plan level, like 20 years out. But the idea is we think there's enough room to do a central roadway, which would really help divide the site from being this sort of mega block to being much more usable functional parcels. We're showing all kinds of cross-connectivity in these dashed white lines, but really those are just hints at the idea that we really need more of those cross-connections, just breaking up some of these really big spaces into areas that are more usable. This whole, the dark purple that's along the side becomes that sort of executive industrial campus feel. And then the rest of the area that's around the outside really maintains that workhorse industry that we've gotten used to thinking of out there. Continuing to encourage commercial along the edge here and that energy across the street and hoping that those businesses can both serve the folks in Blue Sky, but also, you know, serve all of that long-term energy and development in areas three, four, and five. Again, this would be a very similar section with a side path on one side, you know, street trees out there, but, you know, still maintaining the slightly wider vehicular lanes for, you know, for trucks. And then we would turn that, that Cutters Hill into a full four-way stop, um, when the time comes. So this is a look at that section. Um, this is that section, um, let's see, on Blue Sky Parkway. Uh, one thing that, that we're not showing, um, here, but that we thought of is, um, uh, running conduit as, as we redo these street sections so that in the future, we can go ahead and push everything from power to fiber optic, whatever, you know, so we can start working on those redundant systems and help that power infrastructure grid out there, get ahead of it, so we're not having to tear up the street later on when we come back to it. And then I know Gretchen talked to you all briefly about the I-75 interchange. Nothing on this has changed, but this is the idea of that diverging diamond interchange. And, you know, the idea being that we're really cutting down on the points of conflict. That's what the transportation folks like to say, the points of conflict between pedestrians and vehicles. and then also cutting down on the spaces where vehicles can get into direct T-bone crashes, which are the most dangerous, and instead the diverging diamonds end up having more of an angled crash, which has been proven to be less dangerous in the long run, less fatal. We'll go with less fatal, which sounds very morbid when I say it. Um, um, so that again would put, um, that, that 10 foot shared path, um, would really then end up in the middle of the, of the bridge and be sort of buffered. I think that there, of course, would need to be, um, more further study on, on what that would feel like, um, and how that would feel to use. But the, one of the biggest factors with this, um, with this decision was that it means we don't have to build a new bridge, which is really dollars to cents on these things. We have to be able to make the argument that we're not going to cost them that much, and by them I mean the state. Otherwise they won't do it. So it was working with what we had out there. So as part of this project, we were asked to look at several catalytic sites. So this is what that low stormwater depression looks like today. It's actually, you know, it's fairly thriving in this nice little serene space. You know, it kind of reminds me a little bit of McConnell Springs in that you're surrounded by all of this industrial, and then there's this, you know, nice little wet area, and there are birds and bunnies and deer running across your path, and it's a little bit of a good surprise. But we think there's opportunity to do a walking loop and, you know, places for seating and for resting so people can go there and have lunch. Maybe even a boardwalk so you can interact and see a little bit more of that performative landscape of the stormwater detention. And then even some parking space. We always thought of there being parking back there, but when we met with the employees, they said, well, could we do food trucks? We'd love food trucks before we even get actual brick-and-mortar spaces. So that's a really nice way to think of it, especially because a food truck would have a captive audience of several hundred, well, actually hundreds of employees that are out there during the day. Next. So these are just a few more views. and we really think that this could be a nice way for people to experience the site. I think it would need some kind of limbing up of the existing trees that are out there so that there's views in and out of the site as well because you want it to feel safe. Matt had spoken to you all the last time about sort of two opportunities to run a trail along the stream that's out there to get from that site all the way out to Cane Break. So we think there's a way to do that in the future. And that's just kind of an idea. You keep forgetting how steep it gets out there, but it's pretty steep. Yeah, very steep. And then we ourselves did, you know, We really like to do, we did it for UGMP and we did it for this one of these sort of proof of concepts. Like we get up here and we tell you, oh, you can build all these things in this framework that we've created, but they just look like lines on paper. So it's really important for us to actually put buildings and parking and show that there are footprints that would actually fit out there and make this work. And it also helps to provide that vision for property owners that might not be thinking about what their giant sea of parking for cars could be for them someday if the market turns. So this is the area along Athens Boonesboro. What we're showing here is this would be Athens Boonesboro coming in. and then Athens itself would be sort of off to the bottom right of the picture and then this new central roadway would be coming off of a roundabout to help slow traffic down again like we said and really make it very obvious where trucks are supposed to be going, how far they're supposed to be going and where they're not supposed to be headed. That also would be kind of the area that's right across from Ethan's Ballfields. And so when we talk to Monica Conrad, we think that there's a long-term vision, too, where they could see reimagining that park to better suit the needs of passive recreation from the folks out there at lunchtime, but also what if you all of a sudden have 6,000 households that are popping up in Area 3? You know, they need somewhere to go to. And so this all of a sudden now becomes a place that you could, in theory, walk and bike to without having to get in your car. We also think that there's a way to really have this be a very functioning mixed-use commercial site that is a space, too, where employees could get some of their sort of daily needs met. So everything from food, but also, you know, pharmacy uses, doctor's offices, dry cleaning, et cetera. again, this is just sort of an idea of like how different that, that Athens quarter or the Athens Spoonsboro quarter, which I showed you a few minutes ago or a few seconds ago could look like, you know, what, how could that all of a sudden become this, this gateway to a very different looking blue sky, this blue sky works area. And be more of a, you know, if you start thinking of it as having a whole bunch of executives out there that are co-located with industry, you start to imagine that the face of it wants to change some, too. And now I will have Caleb come up real quickly and wrap up with the real meat of it. Thank you, Sam, and good afternoon, Planning Commission members. Again, I'm Caleb Rosico with Tenelle Spanger Walsh and Associates. And what I wanted to do this afternoon was sort of continue our conversation that we had two weeks ago about a potential series of recommendation updates to the industrial zoning districts. So when you look at the document, you'll notice that we have made a couple of changes based on your feedback. The first thing I wanted to point out is that we have gone in and provided a lot more justification for many of the recommendations. The first one, obviously, was this idea of getting rid of what we call nested zoning, where I1 refers to B3 and then I2 refers to I1. So we've put in place a little bit more rationale as to why we're doing that and, of course, have continued forward with that particular recommendation. So nothing has changed with regard to that change. Let me try to advance. Here we go. Oh, it worked for me. Or did you do it? Okay, you did it. I'm sorry. Magic. The other change, well, the other thing that is not a change in there is we had talked last time about, with regard to what we're calling low-impact manufacturing and high-impact manufacturing, that that is, we believe, a better path forward for how you regulate different kinds of industrial uses. So it's based on the impact on the adjacent properties and not necessarily the type of product being produced. Now, again, when you look at that, we've given some additional recommendations as to why we think that is an appropriate recommendation. And then what we've also done in the ZODA that I'll talk about at the end is we've gone in and we've clarified with more specificity how things are interpreted. So things like how do we interpret outdoor storage? How do we interpret dust, noise, smoke, that sort of thing? So when you get the new ZODA eventually, we have taken out anything that is vague with regard to that particular provision. Next one. Additionally, we are continuing to recommend making sure that all of the uses that are in the industrial districts have a definition. And very importantly, a lot of that is about making Blue Sky more appropriate and user-friendly for potential businesses that come in. They can look at the zoning. They can be have a very good sense of whether they would be permitted or whether they would not be permitted And then of course we had a series of recommendations related to a use category that is not well defined today Which is the whole idea of data center So as a reminder what we're doing is we're defining data center as a permitted use we are defining two types Minor which is a smaller data center under 50,000 square feet that would be allowed in industrial districts industrial one districts by a special use permit And then the larger data centers would not be allowed anywhere in Lexington Fayette County as proposed. In addition, there are a bunch of use standards in there. And we did make the change recommended last time about having a separation requirement from AR agricultural lands. And again, I'll talk about that a little bit more in a moment. And then the final major change that we had talked about was this idea of making it easier for businesses like Elliott, who may own multiple parcels, to determine zoning compliance with regard to their office use based on the entire campus. and so that continues to be in the code. We think that that idea of being able to look at all your property as part of a development plan is going to make the zoning a little bit more flexible with regard to innovative business practices while not opening up industrial areas to true office parks. Next one. And then very related to that this idea of allowing eating and drinking producers to have accessory restaurants on properties in the same way that they might be able to, you know, sell some of the products that they've produced. Okay, so those are the recommendations, again, very similar to last time, but I did want to go and respond directly to some of the comments made by the Planning Commission that we have incorporated in the working ZODA that would be coming forth after this particular process. So the first thing that came up quite a bit at our last meeting was, how do we handle outdoor storage? So based on the recommendations, we have clarified that businesses in I-1 would in fact be able to have up to 30% of the lot area used for outdoor storage and related low impact outdoor processing. This is actually already in your code, but what we have done is we've clarified and been very direct that you can do up to 30% outdoor in the I-1 district. Now, there would be screening requirements. There would be sort of buffering requirements. But that is in the new code. And so I did want to let you know that that was one of the things that we directly heard. The graphic on the right generally, again, shows you the concept. It's a theoretical industrial law. The red is outdoor storage. And as long as that outdoor storage is located in the right location and has visibility screening as required by another part of your code, it would be permitted. So I wanted to let you know that that was in the new draft now because it is something that's very important to several of the commissioners. Additionally, what we have done is, related to that, we have updated, particularly in I-1, that that is also allowed there. So the first thing I talked about was processing and storage. That is part of what a low-impact industrial use is. The second category is specific to the I-1 zoning district. So again, that is already in the code. We have made sure that it is crystal clear and that anything beyond the 30% would be considered a storage primary use and would not be permitted. So again, 1 and 2 are really cleanups. Now, the other thing that we've done is based on your feedback, when the Zota comes out, you will see that we have taken every permitted use in the I-1 and the I-2 zoning district, And we have indicated whether they become a low-impact industrial use or whether they become a high-impact industrial use. So any of you who may have business interest in this area will be able to look, see what you are today, and see how you fall into the new categories. I think that'll be incredibly useful. And then as part of that process, we did notice that there were a couple of provisions in there that actually we can go we can go to the next one. We can go to the next one. We noticed that there were a couple of provisions that we had wrapped into this idea of low-impact industrial and high-impact industrial that probably need to be pulled out and treated their own way. There are currently what I would call utility uses. So for example a sewage treatment plant that would be better suited to eventually go into a utility category if that is part of the forthcoming UDO updates. So we've pulled that out we've not assigned that a low impact industrial use because it really is more of a public service service good. Additionally with regard to data centers as I mentioned we have put in a provision that would prohibit data centers within a thousand feet of any AR that is outside the urban service area. So what this means is if a property or an industrial area is within a thousand feet of the urban service area and wanted to do a data center, it would have to be outside of that thousand foot buffer. We think that is a wonderful comment by Councilwoman, Councilmember Worth at the last meeting because of the impacts that noise can have on the equestrians and so we did we did put that in the draft because it does make a lot of sense. And then finally as I mentioned there is that table that I already touched on before that would be at the end of the ZODA so that you can orient yourself what was it today and what would it be under the new draft. So that actually concludes my presentations. Again not a lot of huge number of changes but we've done a couple of things. We've clarified that outdoor storage and outdoor processing is allowed to a a limited extent under low impact industrial we have clarified that outdoor storage is allowed in the i1 district which is different from the low impact industrial and then we've made those other minor modifications based on your feedback so that concludes my presentation and i believe sam's presentation we would love to answer any questions that you may have thank you very much and thank you sam do we have any questions at this time yes sir mr sam i think this is for you the buy-at-your-own-risk car auction out there. How big of space is that? Do you know? I don't know off the top of my head. It feels like it's a pretty good-sized space. It is. I would say that between Edessa and the Co-Parks place, it's probably almost a third of that 300 acres, so it's probably almost 100 acres between the two. That's what I was thinking. Well, for somebody who has dealt with people who have bought vehicles out there, I can't see that staying in a long time. That's a snake pit if you've ever been to one. So if that should go out of the way, what do you envision that part of that 100-plus acres? How do you envision that? That's a great question. I think what we would hope to see is more of sort of what's similar, what's happening out there. We know that a lot of those businesses would love to be able to acquire more land to keep doing very similar types of work. For instance, what is it, Fayette Heating and Air, I think they had land out there, but they needed to expand, and so they actually had to go to Madison County. so the irony of that is funny but they would love to be back at Blue Sky so I think that the minute any land becomes available out there someone is going to be snatching it up for more of the same that we have out there I just can't see that continuing there's too many problems with it I have a question on the electrical insufficiencies would that be a Kentucky Utilities project? And I'm sure they're aware. Yeah, they are aware. And, again, the irony is that when we talk to Elliot, they're the ones that are always complaining about the electric being out to KU, and then eventually they would probably be the ones that would be doing that actual work. I was going to say they do the work for KU. But, yes, yeah, it would be, it's KU, And they're well aware of the issues. Mr. Owens? Thank you. This is all interesting. A couple of questions, clarifications, whatever you want to call it. One, I guess, Sam, you referred to the former UPS spot. Is it still vacant or has it been occupied or sold? um last we heard it was vacant but we heard that there may or may not be a sale going through okay but from what we heard it would be for a very similar use another cross-dock facility where they would just be transferring goods um you were mentioning phase one phase two um the new proposed spine road would that be phase two yes yeah and did I hear like 20 years down the road? I mean, that's, you know, we like to say for any of these long-range plans, you know, 15 to 20 years, just so we don't scare anybody and think that, you know, we did have Odessa reach out to us very early on, worrying that we were talking about eminent domain, and that's not at all what any of this is. We just want to give them another option for their property in the future. Yeah, and I just look at it as a key component for the whole plan, and I think it wouldn't be warranted very much. Caleb? Yes, sir? Data centers, in your first comments about that, I thought I heard that anything greater than 50,000 square feet would be prohibited, period? Yes, countywide. Countywide. As proposed. Okay. I just wanted to clarify. And may I add a follow-up point? There were some discussion at our last meeting about whether they should be allowed in I-1 and I-2. We talked about that with staff, and we've continued to recommend only allowing them by special use permit in I-1. There is very little I-2 in Fayette County that would actually meet the distance requirements from residential, and the lots tend to be smaller there, so we did determine that I-1 was a better location for them. Okay, thank you. One last thing. you were talking about I1 being the uses in I1 being low impact or high impact. Will low impact and high impact have different restrictions? Yes, sir. So generally speaking, low impact means that there is, and I'm paraphrasing now because we do have technical criteria, that there's little to no off-site impact in terms of dust, smoke, noise, vibration, or visual. So as long as that is contained to the property, it is considered a low-impact industrial use. And it would be allowed in the I-1 district. But the minute you have a type of industrial use that generates any of those conditions, so noise, dust, smoke, vibration, et cetera, off the premises, it immediately becomes high-impact, and it goes to I-2. So the idea is, and then anything in I1 is allowed in I2. So the idea is that if there's very little off-site impact, little to none, it is low impact and it is in I1. And if there is impact, it is in I2. And we've gone through a great deal of detail under the recent Kentucky law changes to give staff specificity to determine how exactly that would be. There's no more significant. That word is hard to enforce legally. So we've actually looked at best practices, and we put specific numbers into the code draft that we're working on. Okay. Thank you. Mr. McClure. And then Mr. Penn. Well, thank you for the clarifications on the outdoor storage and also just generally bringing this back with some clarifications. I did, by and large, what you're proposing makes a lot of sense. I did want to ask one thing. As it ties in with this plan overall, the Blue Sky area is really highlighting how small businesses are benefiting from a lot of these small lots. And even this plan, as it calls for that spine road to facilitate some of those larger lots that are now being used for the car areas to be made into smaller lots. with the idea of the impacts being restricted to the lot how does that play out when you have basically maybe somebody on a very small lot but in the middle of an industrial park do they still need all of the buffer requirements even though their neighbor is are all around I1? Yes, technically they would because it is measured at the property line. So wherever the property line is, you would have to go and make sure that there's no impact at the property line as drafted. But there are no, there are no buffer requirements between adjacent industrial zone properties. So you don't have to have, you know, a 20 foot, 30 foot, 40 for buffer between I1 and I1, but you would between I1 and AR or something like that. But the use itself would be based on the property. Correct. The use itself would be based on the property line. So even though there's not a buffer, if it was a use that was making noise, it would need to be an I2. It couldn't be in the middle of Blue Sky. Correct. If you had a use that was primarily indoors, but they had an outdoor area where they were doing drop hammers, when you get the draft and you read it, in order to be a low impact, you have to meet every criteria. And those are about minimizing impact. If you don't meet every criteria, you automatically are considered high impact. So in that example, a business that was entirely indoors but had an area outdoors where they did drop hammers that were very, very loud that you could hear from the adjacent property, that would kick them into the high-impact category. And again, the idea is not every business may want that, especially because we are allowing offices and we already allow offices in I-1. Caleb, in that situation, is that something that an applicant could request a waiver on? That one particular? I will defer to staff as to whether use criteria may be varied. Ms. Sweet is shaking her head no. I would definitely agree with that. I would agree with that, too, but I wanted to make sure. Thank you. Mr. Penn? First of all, I want to compliment our consultants for doing a really good job. I just want to know if any of them have taken the trip through Athens to Proud Mary's? Have you? That's good because you understand the culture of Athens if you've been to Proud Mary's. Thank you. Okay, Commissioner Molly Davis. Thank you. This question might be best for Sam. So you talked about how many of the employees there really feel the need for sidewalks, a safer way to get around street trees, things like that. Did you find that their employers also felt the same way? And if they did, what kind of mechanism would it take to start with a small project to eliminate the parking in front of the buildings? Would it require money from the state, from the city? How would that happen? That's a great question. Yes, it was both. employers and employees. What we actually found a lot of the times is it was a lot of the, I want to say like the more like executive office, you know, the folks that are sitting in the offices that are holding the purse strings too, that are really the ones that are there during the day and want to walk around. You know, some, like I believe on this newest building that Elliott is building. They're preemptively putting in sidewalks for that stretch, I think. But we did give information in the plan. We think that there are several different funding mechanisms and methods that they could go after, including standing up an industrial authority out there. That would require, of course, either buy-in or help from Commerce Lex, from the chamber, or sort of an impetus from the businesses out there themselves. We think Elliot might be the one that would maybe be interested in doing that. But it will take, you know, it is going to take some, it's a little bit of one of those like, you know, out of sight, out of mind very much for Blue Sky. Everything from, you know, we even heard that during ice storms, And so they don't get plowed, but that's a major employment generator. So that's really tricky. But I think it was also very helpful because we had two council members on our advisory committee. And so I think making them aware of the power that is held in just this very small area out there, we're hoping that this will shed some light on diverting some funds to that area. Great. Thank you so much. Sam, do you recall the council district? Is that 12 or 10? It's the 12th? Yeah. Okay. Commissioner Worth? I just want to say as well, second what other people have said, thank you all for listening to what we said and finding ways to incorporate that into this version. You're welcome. Mr. Chair, I just want to highlight just the process with this as we go forward. We initially were considering having this at next week's public hearing for your review and adoption. We want to give you a little bit more time to review the document and the proposed draft language. So we are going to be shifting this to the June 11th public meeting, having that at the end of your subdivision items meeting so that we can get you the document. You can review it, take a full look at the entire draft. We will also be posting that on our website so that the public can view all of the elements of this. when it comes to the red line text one of the things that we wanted to do with this plan and the other plans that we are currently working on is ensure that as soon as we finish the adoption of that plan it's the initiation of that text so while the draft text will be part of this plan it is not the adoption of it it will just move us on to the next stage which will include public input and the full ZODA review process. So that is more of a line out there for the public, for anybody who's watching. This is not going to be the adoption of new text, but the start of that next process. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Bailey. Do we have any final questions for our consultants? I will say that the Planning Commission, we receive a lot of reports and we work with other consultants and TSW always does excellent work and we very much appreciate it. Thank you. To Nossfinger Walsh and Associates. Thank you. Thank you. Excuse me. And Gresham Smith. Sorry. Thank you. All righty. Our next item on the agenda today is the downtown area master plan update. Good afternoon, everyone. I'm here to give you our final presentation of the outreach of the downtown area master plan. Next presentation will be by the consultants. I'm sure they'll do a way better job than me. They know more of these details than I do. And so one of the most interesting things that came out of this whole process was our outreach. and it's been pretty impressive, especially looking at the ways we did the outreach, the people we reached out to, the communities that are normally not involved in planning processes. We were out there. We talked to them. And so that has been pretty impressive, and that is coming from the consultants who've worked all over the nation. They said our outreach was extensive. The goal for our outreach was for broad participation. We wanted accessibility for everyone and community ownership to this plan. So that was how we started this, and that's hopefully where we stay, and that's what the future will be, keep the community involved throughout the process. So to start off with this, downtown impacts residents, businesses, visitors, students, institutions and neighboring neighbors differently. And so one thing that we did, we know we did not have a defined downtown area that everyone unanimously agreed to that was a downtown area. So one of the first things we did is have the infill and redevelopment maps, went out in the community, distributed them everywhere, UK, Transie, neighborhoods, and just had people sketch what feels like downtown to them. These are some of the sketches that we had, and out of all the sketches that we had, three different areas appeared. So that was one of the impacts of what we did with the community, where it was hands-on and the community decided on what they felt was downtown to them. Our outreach philosophy was pretty simple. We intentionally created multiple ways for people to engage. We had surveys. We had neighborhood meetings. We had events like the scavenger night, which last time I was here, I told you we had a call from California because someone was so interested in that being something different. And we also had one-on-one meetings with the neighborhoods. And some of these neighborhoods, we still go out there. In the past week or so, we were out in the Georgetown Street neighborhood talking to them about the plan. Then we also had several traditional methods that I mentioned. We had flyers going out. We had people tabling at different events. And then neighborhood stakeholder, which is kind of traditional. The reason I have East End included in this, East End and Belcote were the most active neighborhoods during this process. And by the end of this, Belcote was very happy. East End was also happy. And what made it very unique was the different neighborhoods. We had neighborhood association meetings. We had small group meetings. And I have to give a shout out to council member Tyler Morton for organizing some of these meetings with the community members. And he gave us his office space to meet with some of these community members who they gave us feedback. The very first picture, that was our first outreach, public outreach, which was not really part of the scheduled outreach. That was the 4th of July where we had, I think, our highest attendance so far, but it coincided with the Bluegrass 10K, so we're not sure if people are there for the 10K or for the downtown master plan, but we contacted enough of those people. And then we had three signature public events. The first one was downtown dreaming. Then we had downtown designing and then downtown destiny. What made these things unique was the venue where they were held, the number of participants that came for those events, and the hands-on activities that were there for all of them. The last one was at Phoenix Park, which this picture, I saw it for the first time. I've been gone for a while, that's why you've not seen me. When I came back and saw this picture, I was very, very impressed. Whoever took this picture, thank you for that picture. There was music, there was activities, there was a food truck, and people just walked around, gave their opinions, and reviewed some of the contents that the consultants had. And then we had interactive engagements, as you can see. This was at Grayline. We had one at Grayline. We had the Lyric Theater and, of course, the Phoenix Park. Some of the things we had were people actually telling us where they lived so that we could collect that data to know the demographics of who was attending that. We had the Build Your Own Streets. We also had a similar event as the Blue Sky Project, where we gave people money and asked them where they would spend that money. And then we also had people building their own streets and just small group discussions. On the bottom right, that was for the kids. So everyone in the community was involved, including little kids. kids could paint, color, make different crafts. And then when it comes to our participation metrics, one of the most impressive things here was the number of people who took the surveys. It's not just a large number of people who took the surveys. About 86% of those who took the surveys did not attend any of our signature events. So that means that the word was out there. Our website was active. We also had, I learned this recently too, about how different groups can collaborate on Instagram. So we would post something and they would collaborate with Civic Lex, they would collaborate with individuals, and that put the word out there. So we were able to contact that, connect that way. And I've been sending you emails about this event, so we are wrapping up on that public outreach, so there will be fewer emails from me. Sorry about all the emails you received. And then, so this is some of what we had. This is from the Gray Line, and you can see all the activities. This is from the activities that we had at the Gray Line. And how has that input influenced the plan? So we had eight project goals, and we've organized them into four categories. We have a growing downtown, we have a greener downtown, we have a welcoming downtown, and a multimodal downtown. So if you look at that table, let me see if I can use this. Oh, that's nice. We have the community input and the plan response. So most of this is what we had and how the plan is responding to that. Because as I keep on saying, this is a community-driven plan. And most of, not most, all the things we are proposing came from what the community wanted. And then the community action, one of the most important things on this is people are talking about being anti-displacement efforts. No one wanted to be displaced, and so when we're looking at our catalytic sites for this process, we looked at vacant land, underutilized land, and that's what would propose some of these catalytic sites. Then a lot of people wanted a greener downtown. So some of the existing facilities like the Triangle Park, the Courthouse Plaza, we looked at ways to improve that. People also wanted a welcoming downtown. They wanted a way that when you're coming to Lexington, when you arrive to the downtown area, something tells you you've arrived. So we have gateways, but very few things that tell you you are in the downtown area. So those are things that we looked at. Can I take you back and ask you a question? Yes, yes, yes. Would you go back to the anti-displacement catalytic sites and explain a little bit more about what you meant by that? Which one was that? The one you were just on. You said something about anti-displacement and I misunderstand catalytic sites. So, Miss Worth. Oh, go. So, when you're doing catalytic sites, it's a site that you want to improve and probably economically. And we already have, like, neighborhoods. So you don't want to take a neighborhood and say we can change this neighborhood into this. So to improve this, because we need a residential, more residential downtown. So to improve this residential, instead of saying we tear down a single family home and put in a multifamily home, we look at like vacant lots and what can be done with that. So basically infills. Good. And so let me take you one back. So if you look at this, I will show you some of the catalytic sites and what we propose, what we want them to look like in the future. As Sam mentioned, this is up to 20 years down the road, so this is not happening tomorrow. So on Short and Mill Street on the parking lot, this is one proposal where there will be offices, hotels, multi-use buildings, residential buildings, all that will be there. And that is what hopefully it looks like. and then when you go to Good Samaritan which is the parking lot you can't see it from here but it's right up there and this is what it might look like this is referred to as the student district this will be more geared towards student housing so that we have a place where student housing in Lexington goes instead of them popping up everywhere and I think that was also suggested by the community and looking at UK's master plan That was something they had. So the community and UK kind of agreed on that one. And then when you look at the Newton Pike, we had the land between the cemetery and Newton Pike and Main Street. That land is now industrial and a lot of it is vacant. And it was a really, really big property. So when we looked at it, one thing that FCPS is struggling with right now, they just put up a new school in the Masterstone Station area, and it already looks like it's up there when it comes to number of students. So having another school, especially in the downtown area where the neighborhood students could walk to instead of being dropped, we thought of that, and that actually did, a school did fit on that side. So we talked with FCPS, and they gave us their blessing on that to show that. hopefully they can continue with that and have the school there so there'll be multi-use buildings, mixed income housing, variety of housing, townhomes and also at the bottom right of that bottom left actually it's just the bottom there will be more of a gateway sign there and if we go to the next slide I will this is on the opposite end which is Vine Street and Main Street that's right now it's a gravel parking lot and there's some utility that goes through the site that has had a lot of developers kind of scared to develop there. But we took that and we said you can have a building there as well as a gateway which will directly impact the town branch trail. And so we have space for the town branch trail, we have bike parking, we have a shelter where people can hang out, and as well as the building that could fit in there. And the next step for this is on June 18th, we will bring you the draft. As I said, this might, hopefully this is my last presentation to you. The next one will be by the consultants. They'll do a way better job, a way detailed job than me. And then after that, July 23rd, hopefully they'll convince you to adopt this during the zone change, zone hearing. questions. Thank you, Boyd, and I would have to disagree just with the first presentation. This was very good work, and we appreciate it. Oh, thank you. Mr. Wilson. Yeah, first of all, this has been great. I mean, what you've done, I don't know how they would surpass the superb presentation you've made here. No, this is a good point, and engagement is always tough. When you all started off, did you all set any visionary types? In other words, I tried to add up very quickly how many people you had engaged, about 6,000 off that list. I remember when we first did our first comprehensive plan, we had 300 people. We were lucky we got 300 people to do it. And then we went to an organization called On the Table, and within a period, we doubled it to about 10,000. Have you talked to those people? So part of the team, Civic Lex is part of the team, and one of the things I will say these Civic Lex and EHI, let me not forget them, really, really put a lot of effort into this. We at Planning as staff, we, as you heard, Blue Sky Eve knocked on every door in the industrial area. Downtown, I went to every single restaurant and beverage place and retail in the downtown. Originally what was, I guess, within walking distance. Let me not say downtown, within walking distance, because I was walking and knocking on doors. it was hot, it was during the summer. And so I contacted all those people, collected email addresses, collected phone numbers for those who were willing to share, and I've been keeping in touch. I think that is one thing that the consultant said really stood out is keeping in touch with these people. We don't go to them once and then they come and we put it down that we have 10 people and we are happy with that. So we keep in touch and I still go out and still meet with them every now and then just to see how they are doing, update them on this, and that is important because this is not a plan that as soon as it's done is over. This is an outreach that will continue throughout, and hopefully we build that relationship with the community. Just as a follow-up, do you have an idea about how many people you think you might be or would like to touch base, not necessarily the number of organizations, but actual people that you'd like to have as a vision to say, we've got X number of people that we know that have been part of this engagement? So just before I came here, we got the numbers for Phoenix Park. Okay. And it brought it to about 500. And Phoenix Park is open, so the people who actually signed in were 125. Apart from that, people who just walked in and presented, I don't know how many it is, but we are well over 500 who came to the signature events. Then we've met with neighborhoods. We've tabled at different events. So the number is up there. And Mr. Wilson, there's no set number that we're trying to get to. We are trying to get to everybody where they will meet us. I will say that the numbers that Mr. Sewe has presented today are the minimums. The amount of work that has been done by not only the consultants, but by our planning staff, specifically Boyden to get out to the community has led this to be a pretty amazing event in trying to get as many people involved as possible. Can I say instead, Mr. Wilson, I think if they're working with Civic Lex, I think Civic Lex sponsored the On the Table last time around. Okay, do we have any other questions for Boyd on the downtown master plan update? Yes, sir. I want the process. So will this become part of our comp plan? Yes, once it's adopted, it will be part of the comp plan. Okay. Okay, now the vacant space downtown that we would like to see turned into these types of things, are you all in a position where somebody comes in and wants to use it for a different use, you're going to defend the comp plan or you're going to work on that plan to work for them? With all adoption or all small area plans, master plans of the comp plan, once we have something that is on record and we're pushing for certain things, as you know with our place builder conversations, we'll always push for the recommendations of the comprehensive plan. Well, that's what we want to hear because that's the only way you're going to get what you imagine is to try to make it happen. Absolutely. And with parking lots, you know, like that hotel that's going to go up there on Mill Street or right there close to that parking lot, you know, that might. It would be a different idea, but, you know, he who owns a lot has a lot to do with what goes on in that life. And, sir, one of the things that will come out of this, like the Blue Sky Small Area Plan, is a review of the existing zoning for the B2, B2A, and B2B zones so that we can get the things that we need out of this plan. And I just say we've said many times we need to know what UK is doing. So it's really encouraging to hear that you all have been in conversations with them and that we're getting on the same page. I would say UK, I don't think my first email to UK got a response and we met over and over with them. So they have been very open and very friendly throughout the whole process, which we really appreciate. Okay. Do we have any other questions for Boyd? Seeing none, thank you to Boyd and all the staff who worked on that. Thank you, everyone. Okay. Now our third item on the agenda is for me to attempt to give the Planning Commission an update on yesterday's meeting of the solar work group that we constituted a few weeks ago. So we had our first meeting yesterday in this room, and forgive me, I took notes, and that's what's guiding me. Present were council members Boone, Eblen, and Savigny, planning commissioners Owens, Penworth, and myself, and we did have two stakeholders present, Allison Davis, who is a Ph.D. at the University of Kentucky, and Brittany Rothmeier with the Fade Alliance. We initially had to discuss a future meeting date, which we went ahead and set. I hope my goal is that we can keep this work group to two meetings, if at all possible. And yesterday was actually so productive, I think that's not unrealistic. Our second meeting will be June 9th at 10 a.m. in council chambers. All work group meetings are open to the public and recorded by LexTV. to start the group heard the history of how we are where we are with this particular zota council members of igni noted that yes we did pass our recommendation in 2024 is that the first time around 23 24 and the council didn't make some changes to it at that time But there remains a desire that there be an avenue for industrial solar in the ag zone. And correct me if I'm wrong, Jim. You're my moral compass right now to make sure I accurately relay this. So Council Member Zvigny, he did note that there was still a desire to have that option within the Zoda. a council work group met. They did pass some language through the government and general planning committee through council and then subsequently to the planning commission. At that, following that, we heard from the Fayette Alliance and they presented a substantial amount of data and information on soil stability and quality and then items that they felt the council work group did not address. We then heard from Dr. Allison Davis, who offered comments and questions. She noted experiences with other communities that have dealt with industrial solar in agricultural or rural zones, particularly practical problems, namely contracts can be signed with landowners, years pass before anything is actually done, or it becomes a family dispute sometimes with the land and the contract. And she also noted that there was no mechanism regarding prime soils and how they should be treated within the draft ZODA. And she also questioned the Board of Adjustments capability to determine what is ag-specific, the way the ZODA is presently written. Council Member Savigny did disagree with the concept that a solar viewshed is a negative thing. He noted the council has attempted to consult with the appropriate stakeholders. He also stated that he did not want the government limiting uses for farm owners. Planning Commissioner Penn explained the overall economics of farming and farm ownership and stated that he believes this type of solar is an industrial and a commercial use in the rural area. There were questions about regional planning, and Dr. Davis did say that she understood Councilmember Savigny's objection to the negativity of a solar viewshed. She was worried that it would jeopardize the character of the central Kentucky landscape. Councilmember Savigny made the point that the way it is written, it is only one percent of the county's land and the council will stand behind that. He further disagreed that solar development in agricultural zones would change the character of Fayette County and he noted that our comprehensive plan calls for some solar energy. He did not believe the issue would subside within the council. Councilmember Evelyn, however, believed that the 1% cap is neither effective nor protective because solar companies can affiliate with public utilities to essentially bypass our comprehensive plan and zoning ordinance. He believes the conversation should be broader about sustainability. Council member Savigny did note that the PSC typically relies on local regulations, though they aren't required to do so. There were further questions about community engagement, namely with the first work group. Council member Savigny said that there was public comment during the previous SOTA process in 2024, but there has not been any specific engagement recently other than comments at council meetings. Owens asked about the stated number of jobs and highlighted that they are by their nature temporary. He struggled with the benefit for Lexington when considering the risks of industrial solar in the ag zone. The best land is desired by the solar installation companies because it does make installation so much easier. Council Member Boone, who of course represents the 12th district, shared that he was part of the council's solar work group, though he disagreed with the changes made. He was discouraged that there was no public input during the previous work group. Questions were again raised regarding decommissioning on prime soils and the fact that we have so little experience with that process. Councilmember Boone met with Jada Griggs of Solarized Lex, who stated that industrial solar is unnecessary to achieve the 2050 goals and is not part of the solar plan anyways. Mr. Boone also cautioned that the language in the ZODA, particularly for the conditional use permits for industrial is rather vague. There were conversations about solar installations in parking lots and larger roof areas. Councilmember Sevigny stated that rooftop solar is great, but it does not scale. Industrial does, which is why it is more appealing. He noted the 300 acres that has recently been approved at the former city landfill, and that that was a those were prime soils, and we approved that. council member boom countered that that was a brownfield site and is is considered such we discussed a point that frank made a few years ago about the urban service boundary and how it extends all the way to the jasmine county line and it was done so at that time because the city was looking at the soil quality and wanting to preserve the better soils which is why they expanded all the way to the jasmine county line there were discussions about putting solar on soil that is not prime in Fayette County. We're very fortunate to have excellent soil and most of it is either prime or farmland of statewide importance. The PDR scoring process was discussed and how it could possibly contribute something to this discussion. Ultimately, Councilmember Savigny said that the optimal place for this type of work is eastern Fayette County because of the transmission lines and the ease of installation. We had a lengthy conversation on the dual use of solar and agriculture for properties. Councilmember Boone challenged the concept that growing grass under the panels constitutes an agricultural use, and Dr. Davis noted that there was no specific ag requirement for solar within the ordinance as it was written. we are going to have a subsequent meeting we are going to request that a member of the NRCS soil science team come and present to us on Fayette County soils a list of Fayette County brownfield sites was requested along with some GIS maps layered Mr. Penn noted that the land requested for solar in the agricultural zones within this ordinance as written exceeds the size of Calumet Farm. Mr. Owens asked if Visit-Lex could share data from their site about tourism and the economic impact of that. Ms. Jones, Tracy Jones, confirmed that the Royal Land Management Board is working through the ZOTA as well and they are meeting later this month. And Mr. Savigny again reiterated that implementing these regulations will help with future PSC requests. I inquired about present cell phone tower restrictions. We're very limited. in our ability to say no, but we do have, according to Ms. Wade, parameters within our ordinance that can help tailor that a little bit. That's what I have written down, but the people who were here, please fill in the gaps, and any of the four of us can answer any questions. Mr. Chair, there were also questions from the Planning Commission about the schedule for this and why we have to be on the timeline. Oh, yes, sorry. Yes. The 60-day timeline wherein we are obligated to respond or send something back to the Urban County Council, they're actually going to be on recess at that time. And so a member asked, could we instead of 60 days have 90 days because it really wouldn't matter anyways. We consulted with law, and Ms. Jones said no. The statute says 60 days no matter what. So we are going to adhere to that schedule as well as we possibly can. This is just for those of you who don't know Dr. Davis, her specialty is ag economics. And so she's done research all over the United States about the impact of agriculture and economics and did a big study on Fayette counties, what, three or four years ago? Commissioner McDuff, Molly Davis. That's a great summary. I just had one question. How many acres does 1% of the county's land add up to? 1,800 roughly. Thanks. And I guess I would, to clarify, is it 1% of the county or 1% of our ARs? Yes, it's 1% of the entire county, which is about 180,000 acres. As written, it's 1% of the county. Is it 180,000? Approximately 180,000, yes. Acres. Oh, sorry. math my strong point Mr. Mickler just to clarify and help me understand one of those comments the industrial solar is effectively allowed now by the utilities they can come in and put in a solar field now what the Zota would impact is private companies that are coming in producing electricity that they then want to sell to the utilities. Is that correct? Mr. Chair, Mr. Mickler, it's not that it's allowed. It's that we can't regulate it. So the PSC-regulated utilities, that supersedes anything that we can do. So it's not that it's allowed. It's just that we cannot regulate PSC-regulated utilities. And do we have a pending litigation on the East Kentucky Power? Yes, we do. So that's the Winchester Road PSC approved that last year, I think. And so the city did file litigation to challenge it. But yes, no, they – And that's because they're not located here or – Well, Ms. Jones should respond to how – while we're challenging them. I'm not going to respond in a – not a closed session meeting about why we're doing what we're doing in a litigation matter that's pending. But just maybe to clarify a little bit more, what Mr. Duncan said is correct. We don't regulate the PSC because they're a public utility, like we don't regulate the school board and we don't regulate the University of Kentucky. But it's my understanding, and this is outside of, you know, sort of outside my wheelhouse because it's more of a policy-based thing, but that jurisdictions that do have ordinances that regulate solar or these types of things can contribute to the conversation at the PSC when they're looking at things like these. And that's, as I understand it, part of the reason why Fayette County felt like having a solar zoning ordinance would be important to give some guidance as to what our community wants. It doesn't mean they have to follow it, but it does, I guess, something's better than nothing. You know, I don't know. Just one other question. did you ask for mapped information or quantifiable information at brownfields to know how much acreage they constituted in the county and with the 300 acres it was just allowed in does that count towards the 1,800 total okay yes we did mr owens requested a list of all brownfield sites in fayette county and yes the 300 will contribute to the 1800 number in the way it written. And what we ask them to do is to stack the maps so that we have a soil quality map, we have a brownfields map, and we have a transmission line map, and then we have other public utilities so they're all visible at the same time. Well, if you've never seen one of these, you need to look at it. I mean, there's one in Clark The park has one in Harrison County, and so you need to look at it. We're going to try to get some pictures of it so you can see. But imagine flying into Bluegrass Field. The cave had 700 acres. This is 800 acres. And it's clear-cut. There's no trees. It's just clear-cut. Now, the council is going to ultimately have to make the decision. But we need all the impact we can get. And so far we've had good luck with people we've asked to come, with one exception. And that's Visit Lex. And they said that their board wouldn't let them come. So I don't know why that was true. I don't understand why they wouldn't be promoting Lexington. I don't think people are coming here to look at soil, but the point is they won't testify for us. So we're going to try to find out why between now and the next. So that's basically where we are. It's very important that NCRS tells us about soil quality and what happens when you take the soil off, pile it up, and in 30 years try to put it back. Those of us at farm know what happens, but the average people don't know. Topsoil is a living organism, and it doesn't do well stacked up for 30 years. So yesterday was... Could you explain that comment a little bit further, Mr. Penn? I wasn't realizing that they were talking about stripping topsoil to be able to get into areas where there's prime farming. Those of us that have lived here long enough and have seen some of our developments where the topsoil was taken out to Athens and piled up hundreds of feet, a hundred feet high in that gully, and then they built their houses and they bought railroad ties and they made raised beds and they went back out and bought the topsoil and went back just so they could raise a garden. That's basically what you're dealing with here. And it's not a pretty picture. It's not fair to the homeowners. You know, just because it's easier to build, you get rid of the topsoil. Well, yeah, the topsoil is not as stable as clay is under it. And depending on the depth, it varies from place to place. And it's just a whole lot easier to take a bulldozer and push it off. And that's why Crutcher out there on 8th and Spoonsboro Road wound up with that huge pile of dirt. And it was coming off of subdivision sites. We don't want to repeat that. You know, that proved to be wrong, so why repeat it? So that's what we're talking about. But we need a soil scientist. So yesterday was an hour and 45 minutes. It was very productive towards our stated goal of just attempting to collect as much evidence and intelligence on what we're dealing with so that the Planning Commission can make an educated recommendation back to the council on this particular Zota request. And understand where the council members are coming from and how we got to where we are. It was great, and the feedback that I received after the meeting, generally from people on any which side of the issue, was they appreciated the nature of the work group just sitting down in an environment where we can see each other and talk together and attempt to see what the other person is thinking. So it was very productive, and we will have that, hopefully, just one more meeting on the 9th, and we can answer any other questions if there are. Okay. Do we have any other business today? Okay. Oh, okay. All right, Mr. Duncan. Thank you, Mr. Chair. A reminder, the government is closed on Monday for Memorial Day. We'll see you all on Thursday, the 28th, back in chambers for the zoning hearing. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Duncan. And without objection, we are adjourned. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm not sure what you're doing. There comes a time when castles fall And all this legend is shifting in the sand You're out of time, you're out of place Look at your face, that's the measure of a man This coat that fits you like a glove These dirty streets you learn to love So welcome back my long lost friend We've been to hell and back again God alone knows how you brought that space Back on the beach, back to the start Trust in your heart, that's the measure of a man It's the fire in the eyes, the lights on the hand And the things you understand Herb of the ties From which you are stradd That's the measure of a man You come home, sir Or now you're home Without the gold Without the throne This is the way you've always been You had to lose so you could win Rise above your troubles while you came Now you can love, now you can lose Now you can choose Not the matter of a man It's the fire of the eyes The knife on the hand It's the faith you understand The earthly ties From which you are grand That's the measure of a man You come full circle, now you're home Without the gold, without the crown This is where you've always been You had to lose so you could win Rise above your troubles while you can Now you can love, now you can lose, now you can choose That's the matter of a man We'll be right back. Thank you. I shot six holes in my freezer. I think I got cabin fever. Somebody sound the alarm. I'd like to go where the pace of life's slow. Could you meet me somewhere, Mr. Scott? Any old place here on Earth could end space. You pick the century and I'll pick the spot. I should be leaving this planet I got a verse but can't rhyme it I gotta go where it's warm Oh, drink, drink, drink I need two more boat trains And I'm heading south for my train train I gotta go where it's warm I gotta go where it's warm I gotta go where it's warm I gotta go where there ain't any snow Where there ain't any blow Cause my bed's sick so low I gotta go where it's warm Ladies and gentlemen, this is Mambo No. 5 Thank you. And as I continue, you know they're getting sweeter. So what can I do? I really bag you, my lord. To me, flirting is just like a sport. Anything's fine. It's all good. Let me jump in. Please sing in the trumpet. A little bit of Monica in my life. A little bit of Erica by my side. A little bit of Rita's all I need. A little bit of Tina's what I see. A little bit of Sandra in the sun. A little bit of Mary all night long A little bit of Jessica, here I am A little bit of you makes me your man It's my mode number five Jump up and down and move it all around Shake your hand to the sound, put your hands on the ground Take one step left and one step right One to the front and one to the side Clap your hands once and clap your hands twice And if it looks like this, then you're doing it right A little bit of Monica in my life A little bit of Erica by my side A little bit of Rita's all I need A little bit of Tina's what I see A little bit of Sandra in the sun A little bit of Mary all night long A little bit of Jessica, here I am A little bit of you makes me your man The trumpet. The trumpet. Mambo number five. A little bit of Monica in my life. A little bit of Erica by my side. A little bit of Rita's all I need. A little bit of Tina's what I see. A little bit of Sandra in the sun. A little bit of Mary all night long. A little bit of Jessica, here I am A little bit of you makes me your man I do all to fall in love with a girl like you You can't run, you can't hide You and me gonna touch the sky Mambo number five So many times said it was forever Said our love will always be true Something in my heart always knew I'd be lying here beside you On my own On my own On my own So many promises Never should be spoken Now I know what loving you calls. Now we're up to talking to us. And we weren't even married. On my own. Once again. One more time by myself No one said it was easy, no But it was, was so easy Well, I believe in love Now here I stay I wonder why I'm on my own Why did it end this way? This wasn't how it was supposed to be I wish that we could do it all again So many times No one could have told you Losing you, it comes like a night Hey You walked down and down with my life I don't want to live without you Oh my, this wasn't how it was supposed to be Oh my, I wish that we could do it all again Oh my, I never dreamed I'd spend one night alone Oh my, oh my Oh, my God. My heart is saying that it's time again And I'm happy And I will shine again I'm happy Jeremiah was a bullfrog Was a good friend of mine I never understood a single word he said But I helped him a drink his wine And he always had somebody fine wine Singing joy to the world All the boys and girls now Joy to the fishes in the deep blue sea Joy to you and me If I were the king of the world I'd tell you what I'd do I'd throw away the cars and the bars and the wall Makes me love to you And I'm joy to the world All the boys and girls Joy to the fishes and the deep blue sea Joy to you and me You know I love the ladies, love to have my fun. I'm a high night flyer and a rainbow rider, a straight shooting son of a gun. I said a straight shooting son of a gun. Joy to the world, all the boys and girls. Joy to the fishes in the deep blue sea Joy to you and me Joy to the world All the boys and girls Joy to the world Joy to you and me Joy to the world All the boys and girls Jog to the fishes in the deep blue sea Jog to you and me Jog to the world Jog to you and me You know I'm in Jog Jog to the world You know I'm in Jog Oh, boys and girls Jog to the fishes in the deep blue sea Jog to you and me Joy to the world Joy to the world Joy to the fishes in the deep blue sea Joy to you and me Joy to the world Joy to the world No New Year's Day to celebrate No chocolate-covered candy hearts to give away No first of spring No song to sing In fact, here's just another ordinary day No April rain No flowers bloom No wedding Saturday within the month of June But what it is, is something true Made up of these three words that I must say to you I just called to say I love you I just called to say how much I care I just called to say I love you And I mean it from the bottom of my heart No summer's high No warm July No harvest moon to light One tender August night No autumn breeze No falling leaves Not even time For birds to fly To southern skies No Libra sun No Halloween No giving thanks To all the Christmas joy You bring But what it is, so awesome you To fill your heart like no three words could ever do I just called to say I love you I just call to say how much I care about you I just call to say I love you And I mean it from the bottom of my heart I just called to say I love you. I just called to say how much I care. I just called to say I love you. And I need it from the bottom of my heart Of my heart Of my heart Imagine me and you, I do I think about you day and night It's only right to think about the girl you love And hold her tight, so happy together If I should call you up, invest a dime And you say you belong to me It's my mind, imagine how the world could be So very fine, so happy together I can see me loving nobody but you For all my life When you're with me, baby The skies will be blue for all my life Me and you, and you and me No matter how they toss the dice, it had to be The only one for me is you, and you for me So happy together I can't see me loving nobody but you For all my life When you're with me, baby The skies will be blue For all my life Me and you, and you and me, no matter how they toss the dice, it had to be, the only one for me is you, and you for me, so happy together. We're going to be right back. We're happy together. Yeah! Mercy, look what just walked through that door Well, hello, T-R-O-U-P-L-E Tell me what in the world you're doing, A-L-O-N-E Yeah, say, hey, good L-O-O-K-I-N-G Well, I smell T-R-O-U-P-L-E I was a little gitty baby when my papa hit the skis Mama had a time, time to raise nine kids She told me not to stir cause it was important like She did the best she could to try to raise me right But Mama never told me about nothing like a Y-O-U But your Mama must have been another good-looking funny too Hey, hey, good L-O-O-K-I-M-G Well, I smell T-R-O-U-B-L-E Woo! Woo! Well, you're a sweet-talking, sexy-walking, honky-talking, baby The men are gonna love you and the women gonna hate you Remindin' them of everything they're never gonna be You may be the beginning of World War III Cause the world ain't ready for nothing like a wild old youth I bet your mama must have been another good-looking marbittoon Hey, say hey, good and I'm an old G-I-N-G Well, I smell T-R-O-U-B-L-E I say hey, I say hey I say hey, I say hey, I say hey Well, I smell T-R-O-U-B-L-E Woo! How can I believe that my heart would find Someone like you, you see The real me, no end between I had nowhere to hide You took away the world