Music Thank you. Thank you. I'm the Chair of the BOAR. I'd like to welcome you to the June 17 meeting of the Board of Architectural Review. We appreciate those of you who are in attendance today. The board was established by a zoning ordinance in 1958. Our first historic district was Grants Park, and we now have a total of 15 historic districts. The board, which is appointed by the mayor and confirmed by the Urban County Council, is a part of the Division of Historic Preservation. The Historic Preservation Office maintains a full-time staff to assist you with your projects. The Board encourages and recommends that applicants use them as a resource. The HPO office is located at 101 East Vine Street, Room 220. It is our procedure to consider the applications in the order in which they're listed on our agenda, unless I adjust it. In each case, we'll have a presentation by the staff and we'll hear any additional comments from the applicant. The Board will then ask questions or make comments regarding the application and then hear comments from any other interested parties. The Chair will then ask the Board members to enter a motion. If you wish to address the Board, please come to the microphone and state your name and address for the public record. We ask that you write your name on the sign-in sheet by the door so that the information can be recorded correctly. I would like to note the following 35 staff approvals before we begin our application. There are certain items that the staff can approve, thereby eliminating the necessity for all applicants to appear before the board. The approved applicants are as follows. In the Ashland Park Historic District at 101 South Hanover Avenue, renovate the carport. At 141 South Hanover, renovate wall. At 269 South Hanover Avenue, renovate structure. In the Ellsford Historic District at 554 Central Avenue, replace the roof. At 710 Central Avenue, renovate the structure. At 456 East Maxwell Street, renovate the structure. At 9 Preston Court, remove dying spruce. At 162 Ransom Avenue, replace deteriorated concrete front steps. In the Transylvania Park median, install marker. And at 365 Woodland Avenue, renovate structure. In the Bell Court historic district, at 603 East Main Street, renovate the structure. At 612 Ellsmore Park, reissue the COA. In the Mulberry Hill Historic District at 343 North Limestone, replace the fencing. At 353 North Limestone, replace the fencing. In the Northside Historic District at 423 West 6th Street, renovate structure. Also reissue the COA. At 453 West 6th Street, renovate the site and structure. And at 452 West 3rd Street, renovate site and structure. Into Pensacola Park, Hissar District, at 117 Lackawanna Road, renovate structure. At 1859 Nicholasville Road, refurbish the windows. At 174 Penn Moken Park, refurbish the windows. At 148 Rosemont Garden, replace damaged door and storm door. At 162 Wabash Drive, renovate the structure. At 164 Wabash Drive, replace the driveway. and at 164 Wabash, renovate concrete porch and sidewalk. In the seven parks that start district, at 517 Arcadia Park, renovate the site from fire damage. At 527 through 529 Arcadia Park, replace the roof. At 207 through 209 Barbary Lane, renovate the structure. At 109 Schwanny Place, install fencing and remove the deteriorated tree. In the South Ashland and Central Avenue Historic District at 285 South Ashland Avenue, renovate the front porch. In the South Hill Historic District at 339 South Mill Street, renovate the structure. In the Woodward Heights Historic District at 336 Madison Place, renovate the structure. At 341 Moreno Street, remove the damaged tree. At 852 West High Street, remove deteriorated trees. And finally, in the western suburbs historic district at 563 West Short Street, renovate the structure. We will now open. No, you won't, actually. Can I go home? Mr. Chair, we have just a very brief interruption for your agenda. And for those of you in the audience, it will take about five to eight minutes. So sit tight. Let's get you on the microphone. I've heard of that. Yes, Mr. Chair and members of the board. We want to take this opportunity to thank those of you that are retiring from the board. And that would be both our chair, Jim Dickinson, and our vice chair, Susan Hill. And we thank you both so very much for your service. Mr. Dickinson has had an amazing array of time with us, 20 and a little more years, but not all concurrently. He's been sort of back and forth of the time frames, but served a total of 12 years concurrently most recently. And we just very much appreciate not only your time, but your leadership and your counsel of things to do with architecture and other things as well. and we will miss you. So thank you very much for your service. And Susan, you have been not quite as long a time as Mr. Dickinson, but you're two wonderful terms with us for a total of eight years. You have brought an impact onto the board that is very rare and in a very positive way. We really appreciate your service and your love for our neighborhoods and our community, which, of course, is also shared by Mr. Dickinson. So we have a little gift that has been Easter bunied to you at the moment. And so take that home and get a beverage of your favorite libation, a glass of your favorite libation, and open your gift. And know we gift those to you with warm thanks and appreciation. Mr. Marquette, I'm going to mention because he is being bold enough to put himself forward for another term. And that we will know all the results of late this week. And Sarah, of course, Lemire, who's a wonderful board member, who boldly is sticking with her term she's in currently. And we thank you for that. We will have three new members coming on to the board. And they will start with the July meeting, and they'll become known to us again by the council's action late this week. So in your different roles, but each of you collectively and individually, thank you so very much for all your service. Both those of you departing from our program at the moment, those of you staying with the program at the moment, you're much appreciated. Thank you. Thank you. And if I may add a comment or two, a lawyer can never know when to shut up on time, but I want to just acknowledge the fact it's been a pleasure. I looked back on the career I've been doing with the BOAR, both as a member and a chair, and I did not realize it had been 20 years. and I realize where in the world did all that time go and I don't know, but I do know that the service has been worthwhile to me and I hope worthwhile to the community. One of the things that has made my life pleasurable is working with other board members that are seated with us today. It requires a lot of hard work. I think a lot of you don't realize that when we go through the packets we have to review those packets and understand them. most of us will at least go out and look at the site. We can't go on the property, but we do like to look at the property and just get a better perspective than any photograph can show us. And so I just want to close my remarks with it's been, especially with Susan, a pleasure working with her. She and I were just commenting, we have somehow tracked each other on different boards for almost 20 years. So, Susan, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. And Brack and Sarah, good luck to you all. May you both be chair at one time. It's fun. Okay. Want me to comment? I'll take a moment just to make a couple comments. My thanks to the staff and my fellow board members. One of the great pleasures for me has been involvement both in board review, in historic projects as an architect in Fayette County, and historic projects outside of Kentucky, and learning different ways that communities value the fabric of their historic buildings and the fabric of their neighborhoods. And community is deeply important to what historic preservation needs and does reinforce. So I look forward to watching that continued action. Thank you so much. And I'll just add one last comment. It has been a wonderful learning experience. I have learned more about architecture from an attorney perspective. and also just historic preservation in general. All right, it's time now to move on to our meeting. Let me call the first case at 1370 Lafayette Avenue. Scope of work is Constructor Garage. Is the applicant here? Mr. Book? Yes, sir. If you state your name for the record, please. Yes, sir. Scott Book, 1320 Bryan Avenue, Economy Home Improvement. Okay, Mr. Book, the staff has recommended approval of the application. subject to what I call one major condition, and that would be you submit the final door and window details and specifications prior to the issuance of the COA. Are you agreeing with that? Yes, sir. The other two conditions are, and I sort of invented this, are what we always call the standard conditions. They're always in the part of the recommendations. Let me read those to you. The first one is once reviewed by the other city divisions, resubmitting changes to staff for review and approval, prior to the start and issuance of COA. Are you in agreement? Yes, sir. And number two, if any changes are made, then altered information submitted, resubmit the changes to staff for review and approval prior to the start of work. Yes, sir. Okay. Do I have any questions or comments from the board members? Any questions or comments from the staff? Chair is ready for a motion. Chair, per case 321-901-37-10, H at 337 Old Lafayette Avenue. I move that we approve the certificate of appropriateness with the one issue of condition of substance that has been read into the record and then the two standard conditions. Do I have a second? Second. Any comment or any discussion on the motion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. Aye. Opposed nay. The motion is passed and the COA as condition is approved. Thank you, Mr. Book. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. And good luck with your project. Yes, sir. Thank you. All right. Turning now to 452 West 3rd Street in the north side historic district. Scope of work is constructed addition and demolition of a raised wood patio. Is the applicant here? Hello, good afternoon. This is Vince Thompson with Gibson Taylor Thompson. Okay, Mr. Thompson. Staff recommended approval, but they had a couple conditions they wanted to add in, in addition to the standard conditions. Let me review them with you and see if you want to be heard on them. The first one is retain the stone wall. Are we in agreement with that? I would like that to be heard. Would you like it to be heard? Yes, sir. All right, the second one is the final materials, prepare final materials of the replacement of the rear deck. I think they want to have the final materials submitted to you before you construct the rear deck. Yes, sir, and that's totally fine. All specs of the windows and doors need to be resubmitted prior to the issuance of the COA? Yes. Okay, and the other two are the standard conditions. Yes, sir. All right, so the only thing that we need to have a hearing on then is the retaining of the stone wall, correct? Yes. And it's a portion of the existing stone wall. We'll let you explain exactly what you want to, but what we normally do is we'll allow the staff to make its presentation, then you can make your comments, and then we'll have questions. We'll have some public comments if need be, and then we'll vote on it. Okay? Yes. But, yeah, let's go ahead and do this. Amelia, this is only on the retainer wall. Right, right. So I'm going to walk you down the street. So here you can see that this stone wall is here, and this portion that we see in front of us, where we have the little window, that will be retained. And the part that staff is concerned with is the stair step system that steps down to the other stone wall. The proposal calls to sort of remove this section and then rebuild this section a little bit. But this part, for the most part, will be retained. The only question is this section here. two part and I guess that's first of all it's part of the historic character of the structure that's been here for a while and then secondly the concern also is whether this could be removed because it is sort of attached to this other system here. There's no seam and this is a continuous system. So to be clear, the staircase part of the retaining wall is not in question. That's the only part that's in question. That they want to remove? They want to remove that because the proposal calls to infill this section, which is really only a six-foot section, and you can sort of see the interior section of this wall system. All right, thank you. Here. I'm going to walk over to plans. And so here's the existing obviously we just saw. And the proposal would be to install the, to take that stair step system out, leave the low wall system and put in this new brick knee wall that would be, they want to leave this in place that would abut this system, the wall itself, and be inset in the stone wall on the side. And there will be continuous steps leading out from that entrance, which is hard to see, but you do have those in your plans at your desk. And then, of course, the guidelines are included as reference. and then the overall proposal to construct the first floor addition is within the guidelines design principles for room and wing addition states in planning additions the best approach is in the place additions where they have the least impact of the buildings over a form in mass the same proposal finds that the full light doors and windows help make very light and open and makes them compatible with the upstairs sleeping porch yet it has its own elephant without replicating history. And the construction of the new addition is within the guidelines. The mass-informed do not overwhelm the site and compatible with existing structures and district design principle for buildings. As stated, new primary structures should be designed to be compatible with adjacent historic buildings and those along the block. And the compatibility demonstrates by having similar orientation, reforms, materials, windows, door sizes, as placement, porch sizes, locations, foundation heights, and adjacent buildings. The proposal to remove the stair-step wall and reduce it to a smaller wall should have more consideration as this wall seems to be having the same stone that seems to have been here for about 90 years. Staff finds consideration should be given to all of this wall, including with guidelines, walls of stone should be preserved and maintained. And of course, and then we talked about the removal of the deck with that. And so the applicant will come back with the material that will fill in that deck at a later time. And this patio is not original and the removal is within the guidelines. Then the replacement of the stone material is within the guidelines. 2A3B, the state's compatible with the principal structure, architectural style, and that not of an earlier architectural period. And then the recommendations should retain the stair-step stone wall as needed. Final materials of the replacement of the rear deck, all specs of the windows and doors need to be submitted prior to the issuance of the COA and the standard two conditions of any changes needed made after work started that alter the information submitted, resubmit the changes to staff for review and approval prior to the start of effective work. and then to check with all LFUC divisions to resubmit any changes for that staff or approval prior to the start of the work. Of course, the applicant is present. Do you have questions? Yes, sir. I was looking to see if there was anything in the documentation. So the entirety of the stone structure on the side is original to the house? Not original to the house, but original to this section of the house, which is probably about 1934. When the other addition was added? Correct. Once the stair-stepped stonework is removed from the other matching stonework, will the face of that straight cut be exposed or will it be covered by these windows on the side? It will be inset, so they'll probably treat that stone differently. And the new addition will sit inside of that stone that's existing on the side. So where the little window is, that will not change. They're just going to cut that staircase system out and alter that section. But to understand correctly that the stair step part will physically be sliced from. Correct. Where it's all now inter... Correct. Dispersed with different sized stones. Right. And that straight cut then would be faced separately from... Should I wait and ask that question later? I think that Mr. Thompson will be able to answer that question. I'll wait and ask that later. Okay. Thank you. Thanks. Any other questions? All right, Mr. Thompson. Yeah, that will be good. Thank you. If they want to see it, I'll put it up. Mr. Thompson, I'll give you a few minutes to make your presentations and I think you may be getting some questions. Yes, sir. All right, thank you. Yep, thank you, Amelia. Like I said, we're on board with all the other conditions. Our biggest concern is the step on, yeah, the stepping part of the stone. So the addition that we're proposing to construct is 12 feet in its entirety going from, you know, the underside of the sleeping porch. So it's coming out six feet to the underside of the sleeping porch and then extends out another six feet, which is more or less the extent of where, you know, I'd say this line is more or less where the new addition would be, you know, constructed. Our biggest concern with keeping that portion of the wall is a constructability issue and a waterproofing issue, as well as a functional anesthetic issue. I think keeping that just creates all sorts of flashing problems. The plan for construction is to fur off of our existing wall, keep everything intact, infill this window with glass, and like you said, Mr. Marquette, kind of slice this down and infill with either the stone that we're removing removing or some other material that the board would approve um you know to make that happen from our perspective and as amelia stated that stone albeit old is not original to that you can see in this photo um the fact the original stone foundation it is different um i'm not certain when it was added on sometime in the early 20th century, could be the 1940s, 50s, I'm not sure. But the fact that it's not original stone and the constructability issues, we don't see that it's architecturally significant. I do think it's a very valid concern about structure and making sure that, because the The intent is to make sure we're preserving the overall look. However I have contacted a structural engineer. They would love to conduct a site visit. We didn't have enough time to prepare a presentation on that today, but after their initial review of the photos and the plans, they don't see that that piece of the wall is supporting in any way the sleeping porch up above. Again, I have that in an email. There's no official site visit. I'd be happy to get the engineer to provide information as it relates to the structure of that wall and how it would impact the addition. But basically, if we were to keep that wall, one, the symmetry of the glass, kind of separating from the sleeping porch and just the views out, it really creates an awkward, unappealing condition. And from our perspective, with it not being original to the House, it just doesn't seem that that should be considered something that should remain. All right. Board, Ms. Hill? So I have an observation. it's not really a question but an observation that the stepped triangular piece appears to me to be really acting as a structural element to that freestanding piece that is the big window opening with the curved top. And once you put this addition on then that structural issue goes away. that the functional part of that angle triangular piece is really to support the taller piece with the big opening and then the low wall. So I do understand its history, and perhaps there's a way to think about using that stone in a respectful way. but in terms of the actual function of what it's accomplishing right now, that disappears with the addition. And I can maybe go back to our rendering and kind of show you. It's a little small on the screen, but, you know, what did I do? So basically what would happen if we kept that stone, you know, as it's coming down from that window, this window has to come up, this water table has to change and come up, and then you have a water table brick wall, everything kind of converging into one spot. That is going to be just water damage, you know, very quickly. I haven't fully gotten into the weeds with the construction plans on this particular project, but I've been racking my head on how to treat that condition. And with the owner who's present does want to maintain the majority of this stone. And I think that it's what I would say a small modification. I would feel a little differently if we were maybe trying to reduce or take all of this stone out and do something different but all of this is going to be remaining it's really just that stair step that I know will cause problems in the future and it also with only coming out six feet beyond the existing sleeping porch it's kind of a question for him of is this even worth doing the project because it's kind of out of the six windows, you know, one of them is getting, you know, it breaks the symmetry completely. I do have a version of what that looks like. If anyone cares to see it, I've got a printout here, and I'm happy to give it to, you know, the administration to pull up if you'd like to review it. But that's our opinion. Any other questions? Go ahead. So I was not understanding correctly. Given this photograph, all of the long section of the stone wall will be retained. Yes. You're just taking out. Yeah, literally just the triangular shape of the. So. Second question. Underneath the awning, will there be any change to the structure behind the new addition? A window, a door. Are you opening all of that up? The plan is to make that open. To the interior of the house? To the interior. So right now the kitchen, the kitchen isn't where my cursor is. This is where the kitchen lives. and the plan is to kind of rework that kitchen and extend out and this would be a sitting room. Currently that door is off of a long central hallway. I can go to the floor plan. Mr. Marquette, right now there's a single window in the back of the structure. Correct. So when they put, the proposal is to include this addition. So once it's enclosed, staff or process can't review if they take out that interior wall or not. I'm sorry. So if they enclose it first, they can take out the interior wall without any approval. Correct. So that's not actually been reviewed because that's part of the addition. Okay, because I was interested why it wasn't in the packet. That's right. Okay. Thank you. And that wasn't a huge consideration given the fact that there has been changes to this back already. And this is a later addition. Mr. Mayor? All right. So I guess I have questions about the details. And I think Susan and I probably look at this a little bit different. because I am concerned that if you take that out, that arch is going to bow out and it will not be fully supported by what you're doing with the new addition. So I would have questions on what you're doing to then give that lateral bracing back to the arch so that it doesn't just completely bow out and collapse. And maybe it is not actually working in that way, but it kind of looks like they started to build it and they started to be like, oh, hey, maybe we should do this. I also, and I think the addition you've done is really attractive, and I totally understand. Like, how are you going to flash that step and make that work? I know that is a challenge, but I can't help but to think there's a lot of history there that is really interesting and is going to give you a more interesting addition than just taking it down so that you don't have to deal with a difficult condition. That is very much a difficult condition, and I can understand. flashing behind it and the water issues and needing to figure out how to do that. So I'm not saying that isn't a challenge, but I think that leaving that wall gives you a more unique situation than just taking it down so that you can do that. I'm not sure I'm opposed necessarily to taking it down, but I am really concerned with the details of how you're going to take that down, how you're going to make sure that arch doesn't collapse, how you're going to then infill with cut stone so that it has a consistent look on that face. And then you still have the flashing issues where you're trying to put the wall right next to that existing wall and how that's going to, I mean, that's still a flashing issue. You're still going to have water behind it. So just by taking down that triangle, you're not alleviating those other issues. You're still going to have to deal with in some way. Right. That wasn't really a question, but I guess maybe do you have a plan for what happens if you start taking that wall down and that arch isn't supported? We do not, and we are totally open to, as I mentioned, we had our engineer look at this on Senate to him Monday, and I got some correspondence back today. I'm fairly confident, or he was fairly confident that he would be able to determine it was not load-bearing. And I guess if it was, we could come up with a plan to present or give to staff that would be for your discussion. I'd be more than happy to pursue that, and we would get our engineer out to conduct a site visit, take any measurements he needs, and provide a formal report. And if any shoring needs to take place, that we could put in a shoring plan. He seemed fairly confident that it was doable. And with the kind of short window time I had to discuss, that's kind of all I have to offer today. And you're going to have that same issue all around that arch window because you're basically building a wall behind this. Yeah. So, you know, I think you might have a better scenario where you let that wall exist how it is, build your new building behind it, and then try to think about how you're going to deal with water draining out between the two, the existing wall and the new wall, and how you get that water out and keep it clean and ventilated and all of that, rather than just, you know, because you have that situation all over this. Yeah, and that was sort of the plan with this window, whether it is, you know, aluminum clad, you know, however we, you know, whatever material window that would meet the standard conditions, it would be infilled and, you know, then it's that detail, you know, where does it exactly does that sit? Our thought would be it would sit as close to the inside face as possible, and then the connection and sealing of everything off and furring out, that's the tricky part. But we're also doing that in an effort to keep what's here, and you're right, we're going to have that issue whether that wall is there or not. It just makes it way more feasible from our standpoint and from a constructability standpoint, From what I've seen, if we're able to maybe simplify what we're doing, but that was the idea. And like I said, aesthetically, it was just we liked a lot better having matching windows, full glass, instead of kind of an awkward window, awkward water table. it just felt like it fit the house much better. So that was our thought. Sometimes you have to take the house as you find it. And in my view, my initial instinct was that is such an unusual feature. I've not seen that kind of retaining wall or that kind of a hold back. on any other house in that neighborhood, I would hate for you to lose it. Now, I understand all the architectural issues involved, but I feel like we've just had a very good, helpful, conceptual review. And I'm wondering if you could take your expertise and work with your other partners and see if you can't come up with a better plan that would retain all the elements of that retaining wall and not lose the staircase and at the same time achieve what your client needs to achieve, which is additional room for their house. Are you meniable to perhaps going back to the drawing board and taking another look at it and bringing it to us again? Of course, I won't be here, but, you know. Yeah, I, you know, I do know that time is very important to our client. he's here and he could speak to you about that and he already has a COA for probably 20 other things that he's planning on doing at the residence that he's recently purchased. I could speak to him about that. Well, if you do, we could postpone it to the next meeting but probably you need a full 60 days and we're going to get it done properly and we'll need a waiver in that case. and I'm not sure if you're authorized to give that kind of insurance at this point or not. Would it be possible for us to have approval of the removal of the wall pending a structural report from somebody? It doesn't work that way. Okay. Okay. Could I have a moment? What we're going to do is we've given our approval, you've done work, and you get a bad structural report. I mean, where do we go from there? I guess I would say conditional approval. But can I maybe speak to my client for a moment? Sure, absolutely. Are they here? Okay. Okay. May I? I do want to offer. I know it's not the same. I know it's not the same, but it would immediate somewhat of what I'm hearing. My name is Michael Dunn. Yes, sir. I own the property at 452 West 3rd. Obviously, we've bought this house, and the structure is quite important to us. We've tried to keep aspects of things that are important and have character to the house. But, you know, in order for the addition to work and for it to look aesthetically pleasing, it looks bad and he's happy to show you what it looks like with the jagged wall coming down the side. You know, I don't think the project's feasible at all, to be honest with you. You know, we're spending quite a bit of money to upgrade a house that needs a lot of love and attention. and Vince has put together, I understand your concerns, but I think a lot of those concerns can be addressed via structural engineer and addressing other issues that the staff might have with the project. As I said, I think Vince did a nice job designing it. I think it looks really good. We've tried to incorporate as much of that stone wall, whatever it may be, whether it's load bearing or not load bearing into the plan. And as I said, again, I think it's a nice project. I think it improves the property. But obviously that's not for me to decide on, so. Okay, well the discussion basically, if you're willing to give an extension to give your architect a little bit more time to figure out a better plan. Because I think at this juncture, if we disapprove or if we decide to keep the retaining wall, then I think that's going to prohibit you from coming back with any proposal to take it out for a year. We can extend this another 30 days. May I make a suggestion? Go ahead. We'll give them a moment of finish. We have a chance maybe in the next time we can come back with the structural report and convey more connection. I don't know. I think it's a function of the conditions. I think taking the triangle out. Okay, guys. We'll have to figure that out. I guess we can live in upstairs. I'm all right with it, so. A big issue. It's one of those wondering, what if they just infill and reuse that stone? And kind of reuse that stone wall. Gentlemen. I do think, you know, we don't want to give up on this, so we'd be willing to, you know, and come to the next July hearing for that first. Okay, I think we're moving in that direction, but I think Ms. Hill has a couple of comments that she thinks might be useful to you for any revision that you may come up with. And it may or may not be because it is changing that triangular infill. But part of the issue has been both the support on the remaining stone, but it's also losing that stone. If, in fact, rather than just eliminating and just keeping the portion, the tall portion that the window's in, if instead that triangular piece were reworked so that just the side where the low stone wall is, that the triangular piece is reworked to create a stepping stone that then faces the addition. So it looks like it kind of would go right under the windowsills of the new addition and then step down to the lower wall as it currently exists. So that's a way to reuse the stone, not lose the stone, but modify the triangular piece to make it work with the larger window. Okay. I'm comfortable with that approach. Sure. Okay. All right, so I think we're hearing, or at least I hope we're having a consensus, and it's not postponed, it'll be a continuation of the hearing. Okay. And do you want 60 days? I'd prefer... Let me give you up to 60. You can come back sooner than that. Okay. Yeah, I think we'd like to come as soon as we possibly can. We will need for you or your client to sign a waiver of the deadline, which is July 20 in this case. Okay. All right. Do I have a motion to postpone this or to continue this hearing 60 days? So moved. And we'll find a date when you submit your plan. And I can come in 30 days if? Yeah, we can do it within 30 days. If you can get it done, I mean, there are time constraints that Ms. Kirk can remind you of. We have to have plans in so it can be properly advertised. Okay. All right, so do I have a second to the motion? Second. All right, all those in favor of continuing this hearing 60 days, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Motion passes and we're continued to a date to be set by the staff. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you. Okay. And Mr. Chair, if I might, I'll just note that for anything such that there is a continuation for this and any other matters, that we're going to have any new board members who were not in the room for this one view the archived record on video. So they'll not only hear the content, but they'll be able to see all the things. They'll be given the staff report so that as much as is realistic, we'll bring them on board with the details of this application. All right. And any others that are continued. Thank you. All right. Thank you. And we have signed the waiver. Okay. No, you can't have it there. All right. To the third applicant, I apologize. I didn't realize it was going to take quite so long to get to the next one. Let me call to order. Let me get my notes straightened out. Oops, where am I? 563 West Short Street. Global work has changed the windows. And I'm sorry, I have lost my packet. Thank you. All right. This is construct ports, change openings in north and west elevations. Applicant here? Yes. State your name, please. Aaron Lambert. All right. And I apologize. We should have gone to you first. But the staff has recommended approval of your application subject to what we call the standard two conditions. Do I need to read them to you? No, thank you. Are you in agreement with them? Yes. Let me read them to you. First one is, once reviewed by the other city divisions, any changes come back to staff or board for review and approval prior to start of work? Are there any agreement? Yes. Number two, if any changes are made that alter the information submitted, resubmit the changes to staff for review and approval prior to start of work? Yes, I agree with those. Any questions or comments about this application? Any questions or comments from the audience? Hearing none, the chair will call the motion. All those in favor of the motion say uh-huh. I have not had a motion yet. Sorry, I'm getting ahead of myself. This is why I'm tottering off. Chair, in regards to case number 17170563-D at 563 West Short Street, I move that we approve the certificate of appropriateness with the standard two conditions. And do I have a second? Second. Any discussion on the motion? Hearing none, the chair will call the question. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed, nay. Motion passes. Your COA is as conditioned as approved. Good luck with your project. Thank you. Thank you. All right, this closes out the application review portion of our meeting. We will now go into what is a less formal part of our presentation, which is the conceptual reviews. The first conceptual review being at 242 South Hanover Avenue. Is the applicant here? And shall we have a review by the staff as well? Baron Gibson, Gibson Taylor Thompson, Architecture. All right. Mr. Berry, if you'll give a review of this conceptual. I shall do that. Thank you. Well, as you know, it's a conceptual review to construct a rear addition to a primary residence and an addition to the garage. There is no deadline for board action currently. The applicant is requesting a conceptual review for the following work. Construct a two-story addition to the primary historic structure. The addition is proposed to be two stories, approximately 17 feet by 29 feet, with a gable roof with composite shingles. Materials are proposed to be painted brick at the first floor with wood shingles at the second floor. And then they're proposing to construct an outdoor living space on the garage. The addition is proposed to be approximately 26 feet by 21 feet 6 inches with an exposed wood roof structure supported by wood posts on brick piers. And the rest of the foundation is brick as well. The guidelines are included. and since this is a conceptual review for our findings, staff has no recommendations at this time, but the following are some questions that the board may want to consider. Is it appropriate to construct an addition? Is it appropriate to construct a two-story addition? Does the addition create too much mass? Does the addition and outdoor space overwhelm the site? Does the addition cover too much of the yard? And does the addition and outdoor living space reduce the green space to an unacceptable amount? Or does it meet the guidelines? So this actually sits on a corner. Did you say it sat on the corner? Yes, yes. Which makes the lot fairly tight. This is where the entertainment space would be located. As you can see here, this location is the addition and it has this connector that connects to the historic structure. This is the street view of the garage at that location. Here's a view from the opposite side showing the outdoor entertaining space, how it's attached to the garage. continuing with the questions is the hyphen appropriate for the connector between the existing and proposed addition is the fenestration appropriate for the addition and compatible with the existing structure does the architectural details and articulation of the proposed addition relate in scale rhythm and height to the historic structure? Does the complexity of the building form and shape of the new addition relate to the adjacent building? Do the proportion, directional emphasis, and rhythm of the new proposal reflect the predominant proportion, emphasis, and rhythm of the adjacent and surrounding buildings? And again, as this is a conceptual review, we have no recommendations at this time. Mary? Applicant? August through your plan. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. So I've got a presentation I'll pull up just to kind of walk you through and give you a lay of the land. okay so my clients brian and kathy may are here with me today and i've been working with them for several months now to develop a strategy to add on to this house they have a large family that they're accommodating kids that come home from school. They have, and they're trying to create an addition that accommodates for that. They've owned the property since 2012. And I just, since they've purchased it, they've been great stewards of this property and care very much about it and doing things in the appropriate way. This photo is from 2007. And as you can see, this prior to them purchasing the property the house is completely overgrown and neglected when brian and kathy bought the property um i'm trying to turn to the next slide but it won't want me okay here we go um this is uh 2012 when they purchased the property and I'm trying to go to the next slide and this is after they did some remodeling and renovations in 2015. They did everything they could at the time and did a wonderful job of restoring the property and giving the house new life. I think all the neighbors were extremely happy that they moved to this lot and took over. and this is 2026. This is a photograph, Google Earth, from Slashes. So Hanover, I'm not sure why it's doing that. Hanover would be this road here, and Slashes is where we're standing. So we're actually looking at the side profile of the house. This is actually where you would see the proposed addition that I'll walk you through that we're proposing probably most prominently. From every other angle, you really can't see what we're doing because I think our entire intent is to keep the proposed addition behind the existing volume of the main house. So the existing structure is a historic craftsman-style house. I believe it was built sometime after the turn of the century at some point. And we've tried to strike a new line with our addition, which I'm going to go to here. Okay, here we go. Yeah, that's perfect. so just to orient you with the sheets that you're seeing this is actually the front door so this is Hanover and this is the Slash's facade that we're seeing here this addition entry vestibule was added on when Brian and Kathy shortly after they bought the house is that correct and it's it's a modest addition that served its purpose at the time when they were cleaning up the property but that is proposed to be removed and we are proposing to add on to this section of the rear of the house between the house and the existing garage so on the on the first floor i do want to point out we have a kitchen in the back we have a living room and a dining room. The spaces are quirky, as most kind of craftsmen houses are, to navigate through. I think a lot of what we're doing is expanding this program to try to clean up this space a little bit more. The bedrooms, while functional, are tight, and we're trying to create a more proper master bedroom that they can grow and live in in this house more permanently. These are the front elevations. So we're looking at the rear here. There's that little bump out addition. And this is the side elevation from slashes that we were looking at the picture of. and then here's our front front facade so our proposed addition is to expound the first floor is to we're proposing a new kitchen volume we're attaching to the house by insetting and preserving that corner our entire intent and one thing that's driving us is this facade we are not crossing this facade is we're staying within the plane of the side wall of the house. That's been a driving point as stated in the guidelines that additions need to be within the volume of the house. But to distinguish, further distinguish new from old, we have our existing volume and you pass through this glass seam connector to get to the new proposed construction. The existing garage, it's faint on the screen for some reason, but the existing garage lives here. And the idea is that you would park in the garage and then you would enter into the house, enter into a mudroom, and then into the kitchen. And this is a pantry off of the kitchen. You'd have an open dining room off of that kitchen that then opens into a more conducive space to entertain for family and friends. There is a proposed outdoor living space. I want to mention it is actually not attached to the garage. It's freestanding. That's one of the other goals of this project is to have a place that they don't have to have more of an outdoor living type space. So it's a freestanding volume. As you can see, this kind of placeholder table gives you a sense of scale. One thing to note, there is a hackberry tree that we've had an arborist look at. Hackberry is not a very good tree, according to our arborist and anybody who knows too much about hackberries. In order to do this freestanding structure, that hackberry needs to come down. The arborist has also talked about the longevity of the hackberry. It is a full-grown hackberry. The lifespan, they couldn't quite determine, but it was very mature. Hackberries live maybe 50 to 75 years. it very well could be towards the end of its lifespan. But it is shedding a lot of bark and debris, and it has a serious lean that I have in the picture that is leaning directly towards the house. So our arborist felt like it was something that could be removed or should be removed. Is it diseased or does he know yet? He didn't say anything about it being diseased, But just the serious lean that it has towards the house, he said it didn't look good. And just given that hackberries are basically, in his words, overgrown weeds, he didn't feel like it was something that we should care too much about preserving. So on the second floor, that glass seam registers again. That's where we're connecting back to the existing house. The stairs come up and they enter into a master bedroom suite. So this entire second floor is all a part of the master bedroom suite. I think these craftsmen houses have closets that are tucked in tight spaces. They're very tidy and efficient, but this addition allows our clients to stay in place and grow with the house and have a more expansive living condition. we have windows in the bathroom that face the this is facing slashes and these are the windows facing the rear of the property in terms of preserving yard this entire side yard is what we would be preserving is that line of the side yard of the house again would be preserved and And you can see that in the addition that we're showing. You've seen these elevations. I'm going to go to the perspectives because I think they tell a little bit more of a thorough story about what we're proposing. We have a vernacular structure, but we are separating ourselves with a glass seam connection. We're using different materials than the existing house. We're using an extrapolated window. The windows that are in the house are all either double-hung windows that have typical craftsman buttons on the top sash and an open sash on the bottom. We just have two over two grills that are casement, either fixed or operable casement windows. and we have a brick base that gives nod to the materials on the existing house that would be painted. And then we are proposing cedar shakes as the top half material. Cedar shakes would be a new material introduced to the project. It's not on the existing house. the windows would have a paneling system where there's not glass so in between where the floor system exists and below the cell height of the window that would be a paneled siding application the exact brand of the material we don't know yet but it could be a hardy or a composite type product as far as roofline the way it connects is this is a flat roof that connects to that rear wall. So it gives us a clean connection without interfering with any of the roof lines that are on the rear of the house. So that'd be an EPDM or TPO membrane roof. You can see our freestanding pavilion, we'll call it. We've got brick columns and exposed rafters to make a simple structure that matches the pitch of the existing garage but allows functional outdoor living space for our clients to enjoy this back corner of the garage. The back corner of the garage or behind the garage is it's unused space. And I think that this, putting this free staining structure here gives life to a part of the yard that really doesn't have any right now. It allows our clients to use this space and really enjoy the backyard and have a sense of privacy. That's the challenge with corner lots is if, one, we don't want to go outside of the envelope or the side walls of the house with any addition that we're proposing. But in order, the only place to have an outdoor covered space is this back corner. And it tucks it away and creates a sense of privacy for the clients. I think that is all that I have in terms of just a quick overview. All right. Are there any questions? Questions? Let's start down at Sarah's. Sarah, do you have any questions? Or comments? I have questions and comments. I guess I'll start with the roof lines because you're saying that you're tucking underneath all of those roof lines. But if you look at the image that was just up, it really looks like those eaves are slicing into that TPO or roof that you're talking about doing right here. So I'm not really clear how that new transition is really tucking underneath those because the image kind of doesn't really show that. unless those are like stopping short like six inches and maybe it's just a matter of how that is modeled. So this rafter would continue down uninterrupted, and I know my cursor is hard to point to something. This is zoomed out. But this flat roof tucks right behind that soffit of that rafter that's coming down. So on the inside, but on the exterior facade it does, but what's it doing kind of in the middle? Well, in the middle, we do have to terminate that rafter. At the end of the day, that is getting covered. So you're not really below it, then you are actually getting into the roof line? In the center of the house, that's correct. But at the exterior facades where you would see it, it's still exposed. Whatever addition we did here, unless it was single story, would hide this center section of the house regardless. Well, and then, you know, you're taking up the whole site. I mean, this is a huge addition. If I just do a quick measurement, you know, the footprint that you are adding is nearly the size of the footprint of the existing house. So, and then adding another mass that is this covered exterior way, I think you're just taking up entirely too much of the site with this addition. And I think it could get a little bit smaller. It could shrink in a little bit and come down a little bit as well because that eave height is, you know, it's the same as the existing house. And, in fact, because the grade slopes down, it almost looks taller than the original house because of that change in grade. And I really think it's kind of overwhelming. I was concerned about some of the details, but I think when you explain that it is different materials on the house, which wasn't really clear, and just looking at the massing, I wasn't really sure what some of this was. I think that will help. Though I do think, you know, when you're really trying to match that facade, and maybe it is a little bit too imitative. It copies that facade a little bit too much, in my opinion, But maybe that is when the materials are more clear, maybe that won't feel like that as much to me. Sure. So I'm not sure about that until I see more details. But overall, I really do think it's just too massive for the existing house. And it really needs to come down in scale, give it some separation. Like it almost feels a little too awkward next to that garage. there's just not enough space between the garage and the new house. And then again, when you add and cover, like I love the idea of that outside patio space. I know people want to be able to use that, but that's just another big mass on the site that's, I think, overwhelming. Sure. Thank you. Mr. Marquette? No, I'm fine. Ms. Hill? So what is the age of the garage? The garage is a newer structure. 2012 is 13, that ballpark. I think for me it's about roof lines because there is something that's happening between the original house and the new edition that seems like it's trying to step away from an opportunity in the original house. And I know it's going to make it a more complicated roof on the addition, but I think it has the potential to break up the mass a little so it doesn't feel that long roof of the addition, which has separated itself by the window piece. and I really do like that separation between the historic house and the new house. For me, that's very successful. But there's something about the dormers and the roof lines of the historic house that seem like they might present an opportunity to be a little more creative with the roof line of the addition. Sure. That might help with this massing that I think we're all reacting to. And it is true that the scale of the garage tends to exacerbate that. But I think the roofline itself, it does feel to me more imitative than it needs to be. I think there's an opportunity for something there that reflects some of what's going on in the historic house, but in a 21st century way. And I don't know what that is, but I think that's the design opportunity that so far has not been picked up on. Sure. Okay, I want to take an opportunity to thank you and your clients for availing yourself of the conceptual review. I think it helps your client to understand where we're coming from, and so that your architect doesn't have to translate what he thinks we're thinking, will tell you what we're thinking. I think the consensus you're first going to hear is it's just too large a structure. this is a lay perspective but I've been looking at designs for a while now it looked like you were putting two houses together and then separating it with a hyphen that's the way it reads like two houses and I think that's your first problem Ms. Hill was saying it more articulately than I that I think there's a different design that you make far more creative than just two vernacular structures that look similar and yet are trying to be different through materials and the like. So there's got to be a way that you can get the space that you need without it looking as large as it is. And right now, as a perception, it just looks huge. You don't have that big a lot to begin with. You have a garage on it already. So you might want to play around with the garage a bit and see what you can do with it instead. Sure. I'm not going to be here after this week, so these are just my comments. But whatever space is always important, and if you have a large family, I can understand that. But you have to also respect the – one of the reasons why we have the design overlays is to save neighborhoods from too big a house. And that's what we're primarily here for. So just keep in mind the size of the house and make it look more like an addition and not a separate house. Yes, Ms. Hill. Thank you. So just one more thought. For me, looking at what the peculiarities of any site offer that just a flat site don't give you, is that you do have that grade change that happens. And that's part of what happens with the garage is because it sits on the low piece, so it exaggerates its shortness. But there is an opportunity to think about how you might have that addition respond to that and celebrate that and be able to help with some of that massing that's occurring on the addition that uses that change in elevation. And let me make one final comment as well. The hackberry. Yes, no one loves a hackberry, but the way our guidelines read right now, if it's a certain age and a certain caliber, it becomes difficult to say you can take it out unless there are two criteria. it's either diseased or the tree would present an active danger to your new construction or to the existing structure. Those are the two criteria, so keep that in mind. Anything else from the other board members? I'll get more feedback on that. All right. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, you need to do a really good assessment other than the fact that your arborist hates hackberries. That will not get you anywhere. Right. I understand. I don't like them either. But part of the problem is I think, in my personal opinion, I think the guideline is overly rigid. But I didn't draft it. All right. So go ahead. This is more of a question of staff. So in an area like South Hanover, is there any available, already done, completed or provided, set of data that compares acreage to square footage and volume? or would that have to be calculated for each property? Would that there were? No. Okay. No, there's not. And it's, I think this proposal really brings home, because it is a small lot, and I know this parcel reasonably well, not because I've been on the property, but just knowing the neighborhood pretty well. My client wanted to remind me and mention that I think the total square footage of the house is like 3,100 square feet. And so our proposal, in terms of what we're adding, in terms of square footage, and I know we're talking about sheer mass and not necessarily square footage, is what? I think it was 2,300 square feet. Maybe right now we're adding, what, 1,000? Yeah, we're 2,300 now. Sorry, the house is 2,300 now, and we're adding 1,000 square feet. So in terms of square footage, it's not a huge add. And I know the volume may look different than that because the site falls off. And what I'm hearing from you all is our challenge will be to address that and work with the site to make a volume that doesn't necessarily overwhelm the existing house. Is that? We're also not taking up. Sir, you're welcome to make comments if you like. Come on up. I'm just saying, we're really not taking up any yard in there. Everything we're taking up is actually carport. So that back area where the additions, where the outdoor area is, is currently just a concrete slab. For the most part, there's a little bit of grass in between that concrete slab and the house. And then the other part on the side where the house is going to go is another concrete slab. So we're leaving 90% of the yard untouched. So there's not very much yard we're taking off. And that part in the back is really kind of a hidden part that nobody uses at all because it is a... That's a good point. And what were the functions of those in the past? I think it was a basketball court at one point. I was, yes, assuming that. Yeah, but it's not anything right now. And it's really not usable because that hackberry throws off so much mold. It coats everything and branches that continually fall. I think that tree is pretty healthy or relatively healthy. There are some dead branches, but it has a lean. We took three of those out back in there about seven years ago. That was the only one that was still healthy. So I think we're going to have to take that one out in the next five, ten years probably. One more question is how close is the neighbor on the other side of the fence from you? Because you are basically putting a huge addition in that is also going to block their sky and their view from their backyard. We are, yeah, I have to look at the. Yeah, so where you're putting that addition, like where. Yeah, there's a garage between our house and their house, a little garage. And then they put an outdoor area that's over from where. it's on the other side of their house versus ours. I don't know if you can pull that up and if you have that. I think we need to move on if we can. All right. Thank you so very much. Thank you, Mrs. Hill and Mr. Dickinson, for your time served on the board. It's been a pleasure. Thank you very much. Thank you. Let's turn to our second conceptual review, which is at 533 East Main Street, otherwise known as the Good Shepherd Episcopal Church. And Ms. Armstrong? So as Mr. Dickinson said, this is 530 East Main Street, and this is sort of the Episcopal Church campus that we're looking at. The images are brought up here in a second. Oh, that's not it. So hold on one second. But as he goes through, so the church has been thinking about how to expand for probably a couple of decades. And the last time any proposal came back before the board was probably about 20 years ago. And they have done a couple of additions. It will look here. And of course, here's the church. Proper, this church came to be about, in this location, about 1925, with the main sanctuary and the parish house. And then there's been some additions to expand to. There are three structures on Sayers. as we walk around the campus that in the one on the corner, there's an addition that sort of reaches between the parish house and the, which is the Episcopal, the Good Shepherd School. And as we walk along the street here, we'll see that there is, there was a fourplex that was beside the structure at one time. And you can see sort of in the history that the architects put together the same board maps. So staff didn't have to do that, actually, because they had done that for us. And then you can see this is the location of the proposed new building that they're proposing, the new parish hall. And this has a retention basin. They're going to work through, and I'll let them discuss how that's going to be, because you can sort of see that indentation, which is sort of a retentimation for some of the other additions. And this image is very important because this part is where the parish hall will be. It will cover up this west side of the main sanctuary. You can see that there is already this arched arcade addition that was put on probably about 20 odd years ago. or more, that is pretty much now sort of a hallway. And you can see behind, I don't have images straight on because there were children playing. I didn't want to invade upon their space. But there is a playground for the Good Shepherd Church School on the other side of this chain-leaf fence. You'll see, and there is an addition that this arched piece goes into. I've just walked through here. This is a tree line. As you can see, this addition gets pretty close to this tree line. It also sort of blocks and sort of creates almost a courtyard where the playground area would be. But it does block a huge amount of the church on that west side and sort of walk around to show you the campus. This is the one building that was once a, is now the church school, the Good Shepherd School. And then you can sort of see behind there, there's an image in your packet that shows sort of an addition, the addition back there. And then this is the plans they put forward. Show the images. And of course, here's the Sanborns that shows what structure was there and how now this is the whole campus area. And this part is sort of this playground area, and this is a parking area, and this area has all been filled in. And then they've also given you a little history of everything. They can go through that a little bit more. and this sort of gives you sort of more of a map indicating all the structures and talks about the stormwater detention area and what each piece of this campus is located and what it does. In their proposal to install the parish hall along this side with a connector And the connector actually will be a new, and we'll look at some images here in a second, a new walkway leading into a new entrance between the sanctuary and this proposed parish hall. And along with the slow connector that takes the elevator shaft, and they'll give you some schematics about how they're trying to use this new connector in a different manner. These are accessibility routes because that was part of what they're proposing. I'll let the architects speak to this a bit more. Again, the same. I'll let them talk about this a bit more. but I think this particular floor plan shows the connector that blocks the view and also of that or shows that it will be off the western side and covering that side of the building. And I would propose that all that arcade that you saw earlier that's behind this that connects to this particular the area was built probably in the late 90s, early 2000s. Here's the proposal. This is looking at the proposed parish hall from East Main Street. A couple of other schematics. These images show much better on the site plans you have in front of you. And this sort of shows the inside of that arcade that was a later addition. And here's the schematic of their proposal that also works as a handicap accessibility area. And it shows the playground back there. And you can see that all of this white here is all a new portion that already has been put in. And so, and this is, of course, the playground. There are no trees noted on the plans to be removed yet. So that would probably need to come forth with their proposal. As the guidelines are included for your reference, they're included there. And so, this is a conceptual review. We have no findings at this time, but questions to ask. Does the addition obscure and block the historic west side of the church? Could the addition be shifted away from the west side of the church not to obscure the west elevation? Could the proposed elevation be connected to the previous addition? Could the proposed addition change orientation? Are significant green space or trees lost due to the proposed addition? Does the proposed addition mimic history or create an imitation sense of history versus contemporary design compatible with adjacent surrounding structures? Does the proposed addition perfectly reflect the proportion, directional emphasis, and rhythm of the predominant portion, emphasis and rhythm of the structure as well as adjacent surrounding structures? Are the proposed additions roof shape, pitch material consistent with roofs of the existing building? Are the proposed door and windows openings compatible in design, scale, size, proportion to establish the patterns of openings in adjacent surrounding buildings? Are new landscapes features within the historic structure and the last two are proposed materials trim in keeping with the design style materials of existing structure? and will the new addition require some new type of detention basin? And the applicant is present. Any questions for Ms. Armstrong? Come on. I do have one question. All right. The existing playground or the playground that's shown here, is that all new playground or is there an existing playground in place? No, this is the existing playground that's been in place. Thank you. actual plans in front of them. Thank you so much. Good afternoon. My name is Jackson Cain. I'm an architect with Lord X Sargent. We've been working with Good Shepherd since 2024. They actually first engaged us to do a full campus master plan to look at all those buildings on the campus in part because they knew they needed a parish hall. The churches wanted one for most of its existence and almost built one back in the early 2000s and didn't. And part of it was just to validate, hey, is this the right place to be? So it's been a long walk with the church to first try to site it and then to kind of walk through what the conceptual design might look like. So I'll sort of walk back through those slides. I think this one, if I can back up, this first slide is informative because you can see the structure that was originally next to the church. So when it was built, it was built in the context of the neighborhood. And you can see the house next door obscures the facade in question. So that's sort of its original condition. if we look at it in plan so this does show the original Sanborn map and the church sitting at the corner of Main and Bell and you can tell the insert there we had the original drawings which are always, I mean, they're just lovely they're just beautiful, but you can tell that intention with that tower element that it's really addressing the corner and so the church has a primary facade to Main and a secondary facade to Bell because those are the two we just talked a few minutes ago about the difficulty of addressing a corner and I think they address that corner really beautifully And so we go through sort of the history of how this evolves. So the sort of order of things, the oldest one is that, number one, is that house that they call the bishop's house. They still use as a kind of for some support functions. The church was then built around 1925 there at the corner. They acquired the house that's on Sayre, which is now the entrance to the Good Shepherd Day School. they acquired the house in between and also the property next door to kind of consolidate the lot and then it was alluded to in the early 2000s that addition that yellow bar was built to connect the day school building back to the church and we've got some drawings to show what else that did but it was really about creating an accessible entryway and connecting their buildings and somewhere we don't have the exact date that the building number four came down they acquired in the 90s, they were thinking about putting up a parish hall back then. So I think it's somewhere in the 90s, early 2000s, that that number four building came down. So this shows the whole site and plan. And so you see the original houses on Sayre at the top of the image there. There's very limited parking on the site, which is challenging. One of the things that's interesting about churches, workplaces get people between the ages of 25 and 65, and churches have people from zero to 100. So you have a lot of folks who kind of would like to be parking closer and getting in more easily, but that's what they've got. And then in orange there you can see the area of the existing playground, and we've outlined the large specimen trees, and they really wanted to protect both the playground and the trees as we were looking at kind of how we might site a parish hall. And then as we alluded to earlier, in the front of the site where the house used to be is a ditch, basically. It's a stormwater detention area. It's just a low area where the water collects currently. And in the proposed condition, we would be adding the parish hall on the former side of the house and then creating a new entryway with a connector piece between the two. And I'll get into that a little bit more on a more detailed slide. But it lets the church, one, have a front entrance on. Right now, the front entrance is really on the side during the week. You come in on Bell Court. And so it creates a Main Street-facing entrance that's accessible. So you have a universally accessible entryway to the church from Main Street. and then the front yard will remain a yard and the detention would become a detention vault that would be subsurface rather than being just sort of out there as a kind of low wet spot. So as we were going through looking at design guidelines and sort of some of the things that we want, we want to make sure we were working within those. And so the first speaks to setbacks in the distances from the street and that we should be consistent with that at the adjacent district. And so the next slide was just to show the original setback line running along Main Street there and how the parish hall sits back there. We were really trying to, you know, had the guidelines not existed, we would have still proposed that. We didn't obviously want to get proud of the church. And we're sitting basically in the same depth that the original house was. And we're also about the same height as that original house. So this parish hall will do what that house did in terms of the view of the western facade of the church. um decks and patios should be uh at the rear side elevation um it's interesting we actually during the planning phase for this at one point we talked about potentially trying to do a terrace out in front of the church which would have been challenging i mean that's that would be not consistent with that guidance but there's also concern from the church that children could run on the terrace and from the terrace out to the street and so uh so they were their preference as well was to put it on the on the rear and so you see that green zone just behind the parish hall is a terrace zone so that you can have a terrace that sort of spills out from the parish hall. And part of the thought is you can sort of throw the doors open and kids can run around like maniacs and be in the playground and not out in the street and you know they're safe, but they can kind of be free-range kids on the campus. So that terrace sits beyond there. And again, the trees stay there as a kind of to offer shade to the playground. In terms of accessibility, it should be at the primary public entrance, which is not currently true. I mean, effectively, it's now the entrance because it is the accessible one. And then also, if you're going to do an addition, there should be a small connector. And these two ideas were linked for us in terms of the strategy. And that was that we really, this connector was, the idea was to extend that loggia that you saw the photographs of that runs along the western side of the church to bring it all the way up just shy of the front of the church and let that connector be an entry point for the campus. It let it mediate between the parish hall and the church, both physically so people can move from church to parish hall, but also architecturally to be a kind of spacer between those two buildings. And then it also gives us connectivity to the basement, which I'll show you more about in a minute, too. So that little connector is doing a lot of work, but architecturally, it's letting the original building read as the original building and the new building read as the new building with a very obviously kind of contemporary spacer in between the two. In terms of the accessibility portion, the image on the left is how you currently enter at ground level. So you come in on Belcourt. There's a ramp on that side. You come in, you're actually still several steps down, so you have to go up an elevator, a kind of half stop to get up to the main level, except it's actually higher than where you are on the left there. So you have to come down some ramps. You come around the side and come in the sanctuary. That's the only accessible way to get into it, just because it was built in 1925 and stairs were cool. You know, we didn't think about people with mobility impairment in that way. And so the new solution would allow you to come in from Main, come up the proposed ramp, and enter into that connector and get directly into the sanctuary through the one entrance there on the side, that ambulatory entrance that's the only accessible way into the church. You still retain the former pathways. Those are still there. And then the other piece is that elevator to the left of that path gets us a direct connection down to the lower level, which is important because right now you've got to come in that elevator that's marked in red and come all the way down this hallway, all the way down this other hallway to get into the undercroft, which is the other kind of major gathering space that was originally served kind of, it's the largest space to gather on campus other than in the worship space. With the addition and the elevator, you can now come in and immediately get down to the Undercroft. So it's allowing us to connect the parish hall, the sanctuary, and the Undercroft, which are the three principal spaces in close proximity to one another. This is a basement plan, and so the only addition there, and this will show up better on your copies, the existing is sort of grayed out and you can see it's just a small area there to the left where we're extending the basement to create a place for a stair to come down from the upper level to create again more kind of easy connection between the church and the undercroft and the elevator comes down there as well and then on the main level you can see how the existing loge pulls forward to shy of where the church is but kind of create a way to communicate between these things and it's a game of inches if you look closely So on the one hand, we've got the existing ambulatory from the original building where that little bump out is. So that's one limiting factor in that direction. Coming forward, we didn't want to hit a buttress. We didn't want to have a stained glass window. So that line is very precisely located where those doors are. And then it gives you room. There's just enough space on either side of that stair to be able to kind of come out of the church and not sort of be too bunched up. And same as you're coming in the building. and are able to move between the parish hall and the sanctuary, either come down the stair or the escalator to the undercroft or go back up the loggia to connect to the rest of the campus. So a lot going on in that small space. At the upper level, we decided under the gables of the roof just to capture that space. So a lot of that's just mechanical, so we can get our mechanical equipment there and not have that be obtrusive, which is another note in the guidelines in terms of trying to hide those things. and the balance of it is really storage for tables and chairs. They can set the parish all different ways as well as dishes and all the things that you put out for different kinds of functions. Those will all be up there in the attic story. So in elevation, again, this is where this really washes out. So if you look at your drawings, you can see the existing church next to it. And we spent a lot of time really trying to look at the existing datum lines from the church. And this is the whole kind of question of how contemporary and how traditional and how much are you repeating the rhythm, which is one thing, and they want to draw a distinction. And so where we've been squirreng that circle is trying to, again, defer to the church in terms of where datum lines are to set the size of the parish hall. We are looking at kind of window forms that are kind of speaking back to the church, which I think is consistent with the guidelines. The windows themselves will be contemporary. And so in the same way that when we're trying to preserve a building, windows are character-defining features. That'll be one of the ways. And again, the materiality of the building, we haven't gotten there yet. We're just through schematic design, and that's a design development level kind of exploration. But I think it's going to be in that material articulation where the kind of contemporary read comes in. But the form of it is not – you don't want to sort of be contrasting. You want to be compatible. And so that's how we're trying to draw that – or square that circle. And then the connector piece is just as minimal as we can make it. It's just this little glass connector with as thin a kind of roof profile as we can get. And you'll see in a section in a minute how that works. This is looking at the elevation from the playground side. It's the top image there. So you can see the doors that would open out onto the playground. And then the bottom elevation is just from the, if you were standing in the setback between the parish hall and the property adjacent, the small kitchen volume that's tucked there on the side to serve the parish hall. in this section you can read how the parish hall is set level with the church for accessibility the elevator gets us down into the undercroft level and also takes us up to the attic so you can if the altar guild needs to get up there or the flower guild or any of those folks if someone has a building but it also makes it easier to move tables and chairs up and down in that case and then along the lower one that sort of section is cutting through the connector and the two photographs or the interior of that existing loggia. And the idea is to do the same thing. So you leave, when you're inside that space, you're leaving the stone wall of the church exposed. Those lower stained glass windows are exposed inside that space. And then the upper stained glass windows are above that space. And so we're taking that same strategy. And that roof profile is just as thin as we can make it so that you're not obscuring the existing roof coming up above there, along kind of on the side, ambulatories. and then you're also letting the windows above breathe up top and then exposing them. So you can really kind of engage that wall close up as you're moving through that connector space. This was a kind of massing model to show how these things fit together. And so you can see the orientation of the parish hall facing the street. You've got the windows are actually still, because of the side connector, we're off from the facade. So the windows are still going to get light. They're still visible depending on your perspective as you're moving up and down the street. We're not sort of jammed right up against them there, but really trying to get lots of windows on the street. Because one of the – it was a great article years ago about churches and about doors like their door. And at the time, there were lots of window – there were lots of storefront churches that were popping up. And the nice thing is you can window shop, and there's something about the accessibility of that. It's a little bit foreboding to walk through a big, heavy door if you've never been there before. And so having a facade that feels a little more opening and welcoming there was important to the church. And we thought it would also kind of help activate the street as people went by. On this elevation, you can see how we were laid back to the courtyard. Here we have doors. We talked about doors on the front. And there was, again, this idea of wanting to keep the front of the building physically secure to just have the one entry point. And that was largely coming from children's ministries. They just didn't want toddlers running out in the main street. And so there is a kind of cloistered condition where it's very deliberately enclosed in the courtyard. A couple of other things that are nice about the orientation is you get to have windows on both sides of space, a lot of nice natural light in the parish hall. It also puts them oriented north and south as opposed to east and west. You're getting the right kind of solar orientation to not get a lot of solar heat gain and glare. So for us, it felt like it was a way to – there were a lot of variables to sort of get it cited. and we're tight. It was a very tight game to try to get the number, the size parish hall we needed for the number of seats they would need for events. Still accommodates small kitchens. So it's definitely a very tight fit, but we felt like it really brought those things together to meet the church's need well, but also was working consistently with the design guidelines. I think that's our last image. All right. Yes. Let's start with Ms. Hill. What a fun project. Yes. Thank you. You're right. What a fun project. And just so many very kind of random things that do and don't fit together. The rendering with the white certainly makes sense in terms of clearly identifying. but it also is kind of a white elephant in a way that it accentuates the things that might not have been quite as visible if, say, it were as grayed out as a holding place. Which is what it was supposed to be. So you're saying if it was gray, it would have looked more like a holding place and less like an answer. So I think for me it's probably the first thing is about scale. And when I look at the floor plan, and I'd done some measuring when I was reviewing this at home and driving by and hearing you talk about it, is that it basically looks like the parish hall, even though it's rotated, is basically the same size as the sanctuary. It is. You're absolutely right. Okay. Just rotated. Correct. By 90 degrees. And so I think that that orientation along that street is probably facing kind of southwest, which both is wonderful and awful for solar orientation. And so scale is a huge piece of, because of orienting it the way you are as opposed to rotating it 90 degrees, is that the windows kind of obscure the church in some ways. because what you're seeing are all this pattern of very large windows, even though they're a form that's reflective of the church. The church elevation, entrance, facade is not where the windows are. So the scale of those windows in the proposed parish hall become really important, and for me they seem overwhelming. The second piece is just the scale of the roof. And I like the forms, but particularly knowing that it's not an occupied space, it gives you, as a designer, a lot of flexibility about tweaking that a little bit so that you're not competing in any way. I think that's your biggest challenge with this orientation is not to compete with the front elevation. Even if it's in the same plane, that doesn't really matter. The prominence of that glassed, large roof, long elevation gives it a prominence that is really going to be the challenge for you. So I don't know whether you have also looked at rotating, and I realize that the scale difference of the sanctuary as a rectangle, the scale is not like it's a long, thin sanctuary, but rotating it just to see what opportunities versus challenges. Absolutely, and I think there are multiple. And it's interesting. It's, I guess, a... The microphone system in this wonderful building is weird. You're going to have to really raise up that microphone. All right, sorry, let me do that. So, no, as we were looking at it, one of our thoughts was that actually rotating it was a way of deferring because you're getting the tall gable facade of the church, and you're getting the low facade of the side of the parish hall. The parish hall turns and faces the street. Its tall facade is now facing, and I've got two buildings that are facing saying, look at me. And we felt like rotating that way was sort of the line of the building was saying, don't look at me, look at that building next door. And so we actually thought that was more deferential to face the building towards the church instead of towards the street. And then our other concern, if we rotate the other way, you saw how tight the space was. You start to, if you don't get proud of the church, then you start to encroach on the playground and the specimen trees. And so it led us, that rotation kind of did several things at the same time that we thought were stronger. I worry if you rotate it, now I've got windows that look at the side of a building with a little alley in between and the apartment building next door with a little alley in between as opposed to kind of sort of graciously being able to address the street and also address the playground. Well, for me, the roof of the proposed addition is monstrously. It's large. It's a very, it's not the window piece. It's the roof piece is very prominent. And I'm sure I'm being distracted by the white. And also, even though the windows are referential to the historic church, they are larger and taking up, they have a lot more scale. So maybe it's partly about scale. And I hear what you're saying about being able to have the view out onto the street and into that space. Light is going to be a real challenge. It's a great passive sewer opportunity, but there's nothing on there that suggests passive sewer. Oh, no, and you're right. And actually, this is maybe a bad editorial choice by me. We had a version that looked sort of rendered, and we said, okay, but we don't want to imply that we've made material decisions that we haven't made. Let's just white box it. And that may have backfired on me. Yeah, it's a little brutal. We can clean that up. Yes, but so it may be that some of those details that acknowledge both the light and the history of the forms and the orientation with light, but also what we now understand more about. Otherwise, that light will just bake the inside of that space during certain times of the year, such as what we're in right now. Thank you. Mr. Marquette? Thank you. the box storage area on the boundary with the apartment buildings. Yes. What's its purpose? That's actually a kitchen. So the kitchen that supports the parish hall is in that space. So the tall volume is the part that people are in, And then the kitchen is where they would, it's a catering kitchen, so if they're having an event, they could serve food. So that kitchen would have to be a commercial kitchen. It will be, yes, sir. And we have an issue nearby where a home was turned into a restaurant facility. And the venting for that kitchen continues to be an issue. So I'm not sure that there is a way to do a commercial kitchen without some pretty extraordinary exterior venting. So that would be one area that I think the ongoing board members would be sensitive to, given the past, recent past, that we're still dealing with on this other structure. I agree with the scale of the roof issue. And I'm also wondering, just in terms of it not looking like a shed, if the building was extended to include the kitchen in the whole scheme of things, to soften the impact of this addition on the side. We could look at that. We deliberately were sort of stepped... Or do something architecturally to it that makes it look, at least from the front, more a part of everything else that's going on. We can certainly look at that. the height of the attic space, how much square footage for storage do you have up there and how much of it is eight feet? I could not give you that number off the top of my head. Because it's not all you, if I go to that drawing, you can see what we have. Let me get to that plan. That stepping down. So the zone, if you look at how it's sort of almost telescopes, I think the narrowest zone is eight feet, and the other one is like seven feet, and the other one is – in other words, because what we were planning – we had built-ins. And so we said, well, eight feet is where it's just – it's all eight feet in that smallest, in that kind of last space, that secondary space. We said if they put built-ins in that go up to seven, no one really reaches higher than seven feet to get to cabinets anyway. And then the last one went down to five feet, which is code minimum, because we thought, well, they could park tables and chairs in the low part of the roof and kind of not lose that. That's not really useful space. And then the balance of it was set up to be sort of the far, that first third is where all the mechanical equipment would go so you wouldn't see it on Main Street. It would be tucked up under the roof. And then the spaces along the side is where we could run duct work so we could condition the space below and not see air conditioning ducts down in the parish hall. So from the floor of the attic area to the spine of the roof is how tall. That I don't. We might have it, but I would... Just roughly. I mean... Let me go back. Let me take a look. Because I'm trying to address the pitch of the roof... Sure. ...issue to preserve your space. The pitch is 8 and 12. Okay. And we are... Let me think about how wide we are. 56-ish? So we do a quick math. That's 7 times 12. No, that can't be right. I did that math backwards. 7 times 12 is 84. That can't be right. I bet only 7 feet, and it's taller than that, so that didn't work. Well, you can address that later. I'm just saying that if the amount of roof exposure from the exterior is part of the scale problem, then are you going to be able to address that and still have enough storage space? Because I understand why you need that space. I have a lot of big event history, so I'm intrigued that you're doing it that way and using the elevator, and that's just too cool. The three variables there are wanting to get the ceiling in the space to be a decent height when you're in it because it's a big volume. We didn't want a shallow pitched roof because that didn't feel right. We couldn't go as steep as the church, I think, as 11-12, and this one's 8-12. So we're trying to get enough steep pitch to kind of reference the church, but we weren't going to try and match it. But when we had a shallower one, it started to look a little more shed-like and a little less ecclesiastical. So that's been the game we've been kind of struggling with is how to get enough steep pitch, but not too much, but also not compress the space. you have the sort of flat sort of ceiling when you're in the room keeping it up at a higher level just because it's a big floor plant to have a low ceiling. So that's been the tension that we've been looking at. But we can try to explore some options there. How much of a retention pond would be required on this particular property? Instead of a pond, we're going to replace the pond with a vault. So you'll have a vault to catch that? We will. We will. All the water kind of trains towards Maine. That's where I was going. Yes, we'll have a vault buried in the front yard. Okay. That's all for right now. Okay, Ms. Lemire. Where did I put my notes? So my immediate, I have a lot of miscellaneous things. Overall, I really like your solution. So then it comes into those details. And the number one thing was the windows just seem overwhelming in size to the original structure. And maybe that's a perspective thing, given it is this big white box. And maybe they're not twice the size as the windows of the sanctuary. But here they kind of look like it. And it feels like it does kind of overwhelm the church, the actual sanctuary. So I think maybe there's some scale stuff and same comments with the roof. Like it seems like it seems like a lot of roof there. But I agree with you that like if you start lessening that. The you know steepness of that roof it would lose that character that you don't want to lose either. So I think there's just some balancing that you need to do there. One thing that hasn't been mentioned already because I agree with what my board members have said. if you go to the rendering that is kind of from the street. This one? Yes, that one. When I first looked at it, my first thought was move it back so you can kind of see the side of the church. And then I looked at where that house was and the lines. And then even to the left of this, there's, you know, those newer buildings that come much closer to the house. So I was like, well, I kind of don't mind where that is laying in relation to the church. But what happens is you are pulling those stairs out and that ramp out so much that they are almost interfering more with the face in the front of that church than the building is. And so it bothered me a little that those steps seemed so prominent, kind of going up to your connector piece, which I think works really well, compared to what the actual steps are into the church itself. And it just felt too big and too bulky. And if you move that whole volume back, you could hide those stairs, but I don't think it's right to move the whole volume back. So I'm just wondering if there's another solution to those stairs and that ramp that feel a little softer in that area. No, I hear what you're saying. And one thing we could look at is if, you know, if the ramp, part of the driver is here right now. If you look at the church side, you go up this little half flight of steps and another half flight of steps. So you're covering the same distance, but you don't proceed. When you see there's one run of steps, it feels like a lot. Maybe dividing it, stepping it back, and figuring out how to ease that transition a little bit. Right, but that would also mean we've got to get the front of the ramp's got to be proud of the steps. So it means the ramp would come forward. So it just means that the lower run of the ramp would come towards Main Street closer, if that's okay. And we could bring a first run of stairs closer to Main Street, have a landing in between, and then get up from there. So there's a way to negotiate that. If everything comes forward a little bit, it lets us break those steps down into two tiers. It just means the ramp's got to come up also to make sure that we've got an accessible entry from Maine. I don't know exactly what that's, but I think that's like, of all the things that haven't yet been mentioned, that's the... Sure, no, we can totally look at that. On that same issue, I think the ramp, how the ramp works, May, because it's so long, if in fact the stairs steps come forward even in two portion and it may allow you to make it more alongside and parallel to the steps as opposed to perpendicular to the steps. I know ramps take up a lot of space, but I think that's part of what's making the front yard. I wonder too, because it is hard to get one perpendicular and it's also a little worrisome. You don't really want someone rolling down a ramp and then if all of a sudden the brake goes out on your wheelchair. But I think one thing that can be massaged is how to let that ramp read like a series of terraces with low... I think it's a way to make it feel more landscape-y than it's showing right there. So that's something we can work on for next time. Well, since we're talking about the ramp, let's talk about that for a moment since I'm getting older. Yes, sir. I don't have the mobility issue. I have mobility issues that she doesn't have. With the stairs themselves, you're going to need some kind of a banister. Oh, yes, sir. Yes, sir. It's not a detail enough right here. And also, anyone with a walker is going to hate your ramp. Because it's going to be so long to traverse. I mean, that's quite a bit of a hike. If you've got one of those little walker things or push things, that's going to be a bit of an issue for them. Now, that's ADA issues as well. But you just need to be sensitive to your older. Sorry. I apologize. No, that's fine. To your older congregants that are going to be feeling that he's turning into a challenge to get into the church itself. Now, to come to the building itself, maybe I'm just saying this all wrong. To me, it's too imitative of the sanctuary. You may be trying to respect the classical aspects of it. To me, it reads too much like a mini church, especially the buttresses. They're too tall. And it may be, again, the whitewashing. It's just too prominent in comparison to the main building, and it just sticks out. I mean, it catches my eye. That's the first thing that really caught my eye. And also, I really don't like the storefront approach of your windows. What would you do instead? I don't know. It just looks odd. It makes it look like a commercial building, and it's not a commercial. It's meant to be. Well, they certainly aren't resolved. I mean, so there is, part of what we have to do is kind of, is resolve what those are. When you said storefront, in my mind, that's the, it means it's kind of clear glass with a thin mullion. And so, so I thought you were saying not clear glass. And so, but I think that we're, like, we haven't gotten into detailed sort of studies on the elevation to say, are the buttresses there? You know, what's the thickness of the mullion? What's the mullion pattern? That's all sort of the next level of iteration for us. But the thought was that if you keep the form, by keeping the sort of form of the arch, you're sort of making a reference back. But if the window feels like a contemporary window, then you're also saying, okay, but this is a contemporary building. So you're trying to do a both-and, not an either-or. We're not building a glass box next door. We're also not building the exact same building next door. We're trying to sort of mediate between those two things. Well, that's your other problem. Giving it southern exposure. You're going to bake people. I mean, your air conditioner would just go nuts with the southern exposure that you've got on that building. And you might want to explore solar panels. I mean, you've got a great exposure that you could probably pay for the electricity of that building for a solar panel array, which oddly would cut down on how massive that roof looks. It's just a thought. No, it's a good thought. And, you know, again, I'm the layperson. I'm not the architect. I'm usually here to keep these cats in control. That's about it. But my first three thought was, it's not too emitive. I was wondering how it would work if the two buildings ran in parallel with each other as opposed to having it be perpendicular, because it just seems so large in comparison to the sanctuary itself. and I've been in good shape. It's a beautiful, beautiful building. It is. It is. All right. That's all I have to say. Ms. Hill? I'm. Anything else? I'm. Okay. Go ahead, Mark. Make one comparison. So on the front page, this side building here, the height of that compared to the height of the church windows, is considerably shorter than the height of the new proposal, which goes almost to the same height of the roof. So when we're talking about scale, that old section doesn't dominate quite like the new one does. And, you know, is that ratio more appealing to the board, the ratio of the height here versus the height there? I'm just pointing that out, that that ratio seems very complementary, not overwhelming. No, and I think part of it was the challenge, and you can see in that picture right there, you can see, one, it's a narrower volume, so you can get a lower ridge with a steep pitch. And then it also is sort of a one-story with just a sort of little, you can see the little kind of dormer windows there. And so you can sort of, there are a couple of rooms that are sort of tucked in there. So that's the challenge from a, because the building has, the volume of the parish hall needs to be able to accommodate so many chairs, tables and chairs. And so that gets us to a width that then, and you're right that it actually worked out. We didn't plan it that way initially, but we realized, wait a minute. And then we deliberately kind of keyed off of the column grid. And we said, well, as long as we're doing this, let's do this. But that sort of gets the width of it. So I think the thing we've got to look at is how to, I hear what you're saying, but that was a challenge. We drew a lot of different versions of that roof to try to get enough volume under it for the parish hall and then still have it be steep enough. And so we'll have to see if we can find a more new, there may be some nuance in there that we need to go back and take another look at to see if we can figure out how to bring that down some. Well, and also I'll just point out, staff asks these questions for a reason. I have a feeling the staff is thinking too much of the western wall is being lost. You've already lost a portion of it with the addition that's already there. And I think they're concerned with the orientation of this building, you're losing the rest of your western wall. Here's what I don't understand, though. That one I find challenging. If we go to that cover image, where is it? Our cover image? Borderback. It's the next. The sepia tone picture. That one. Yeah. So that house was there before this church was built. It was there into the 1990s. It is every bit as tall as the parish hall we're proposing. And I realized there was a brief window in time when you could see that facade, but that's not the majority of the church's history. So I don't know why we privileged 1996 to 2026 over all the years that came before. So we felt like that's when we really struggled with. We felt like you've never been able to see that facade. And the church was designed for you to see. There's a reason the photographer stood and took that picture and not the other picture. And so that's the one where it feels like that one's a little hard for us to kind of get our heads around. But the addition isn't covering. The house didn't abut the structure. You could still read the side of the structure with the proposed sanctuary. The parish hall covers that whole. Well, I would challenge that a little bit. I'd say the parish hall sits next door like that building does. And then the connector abuts it. But the guidelines say that's how you should treat an addition when it's abutting a historic building. So I feel like we're following what the guidelines telling us to do. So I don't, I mean, do I need to break the guideline to satisfy the board? That part's challenging for me, to be honest. Well, guidelines can be bent, but I think there you hear it from the staff. Their principal concern is about losing your Western exposure. Now, it could be the whitewashing has just made it look so prominent, but with that old picture, to me, that's the way proportionately it should read, and that's not the way this parish hall is reading to me at all. I think the other thing I would just want to add is that that original loggia that came down that doesn't come all the way forward and would extend in this scheme is what allows them to access those buildings and not go outside it allows you to have wheelchair accessibility and staying conditioned space and it just feels odd to make someone go outside because it just feels like it's asking the church to make a pretty rough sacrifice on the idea that this part of the wall should be outside instead of inside. That part just is a hard one. Well, it's just a concern. I mean, this is what conceptual reviews are about. So I think this picture is interesting because you say that that house that used to be there is as tall as what you're proposing. But the angle you've shown us, your addition, makes it look much taller than what that house is. Because that house is almost in proportion with what Brock was just talking about there. So I think maybe a sense of, you know. I need to get that proportion image for next time. You know, it's always a matter of angles and how you look at stuff. But I am shocked that you're saying that what you're proposing is not taller than that house. I mean, if you read, as I'm looking at it, I'm seeing there's two stories of house plus a pitch on top of it with an attic story. and if I sort of draw the ridge line over to the buttress, I think we're about the same height. I'll go look and see if they're literally the same, but they're very comparable at that point. And so, you know, because the houses are effectively three stories. They're two plus, you know, a steep pitch roof. And so I think it's about the same volume. But we'll look at that. We'll look at the one we have, and I'll try and get that image too next time so we can compare them. Okay. Anything else? Mr. Chair, I'd like to comment a couple of things real quick if I could. Sure, go ahead. I agree with Amelia. Amelia and I went on site and met with some of the architectural staff on this. And I don't think it's within the guidelines to do as much coverage, thrust all that way forward of that wall as it is. I hear you about asking people to go out in the weather and that kind of thing. So if at the end of the day the need to not go out in the weather prevails, which there's a lot of reasons to think about that, then I think it needs to be way more transparent a wall system so that you can still visually interpret the actual west wall of the facility. If you're driving down the street, not just from inside the building, but passing by, I need to be able to read that. Correct. And also, the house next door, while it may have blocked at certain angles considerable vista, Amelia has raised the point that you still had total exposure of that. You can walk down between the house and the sanctuary back in the day and experience spatially the west wall of the church, not only just view it, but you could experience it as an object because that house wasn't that close. So protecting the integrity of that west wall of the house, you've already, in the addition that's been built that comes there currently, lost a great deal of that West Elevation being experienced already. So I'm just cautioning that I think that within our guidelines is a very important topic. The facade treatments on the proposed fellowship hall, I think it's inappropriate, just flat wrong, for them to be having a reference to Gothic shapes. I think they should be rectilinear. It's a fellowship hall. It's not a sanctuary. And it's too mimicking of the sanctuary, and it distracts from what are those incredible windows and their articulation of their surrounds. I think their articulation of their surrounds are as important as the stained glass sitting in them as far as your architectural experience of the outside envelope. So I think there needs to be more of a sought-out architectural change in definition between the fellowship hall that you're proposing and the sanctuary relative to the intent of our guidelines. Well, we will certainly look at the facade. And I would say that the notion that a church is Gothic and a fellowship hall is not. Well, I didn't say that exactly. Okay, you said it's the parish hall, not the church, so it shouldn't be Gothic. I was reacting to that. Well, I was reflecting to the stereotypic image, particularly by lay people, is that arched, quote, church windows are Gothic. Sure. No, it's a Gothic. Not necessarily churches. No, no, no. I agree. I'm just saying that you see them in colleges, you see them in dining halls. They get used lots of places. There's collegiate Gothic all over the country. Correct. That's my point. That's all I'm saying. And elsewhere. But I'm saying because of your on this specific site conditions and the very wonderful buildings that you've got, you've got these jewels of that that don't need to have anything trying to become a reference to it. And so if the church wants to make a reference, I need to tell them that they can't. So we'll tell them that they can't. Well, Amelia and I talked a bit in some detail to that length while we were on the site. And we're okay. I mean, I don't have a strong preference personally, but when we were, so we can probably change that. I don't think that's going to be a deal breaker. I think, but that was. I just think it's important in your considerations to put those sorts of things in the hopper. There's still the opportunity to have lots of light and all those sorts of things, but it's not a change enough. It just looks like you've kind of done a stripped down reference. Right now it is. You're absolutely right. But at schematic, you're totally, I don't disagree with you. At schematic, we're trying to master. So you're right. There's a lot of development needs to be done in the articulation of that. So we're not, and that's not where we are yet in the process. So you're right. Anyway, those were some of the substantial, Carrie, takeaways that I left your sight with back before hearing what has today been a really helpful presentation. I do want to come back on this one because this is the one I still struggle with is that we're sitting where we're told to sit. relative right we're sitting at the setback that we're told to sit and we're told that if we want to attach we need to attach a certain way but we're being told good shepherd's being told but you can't attach your wall is so important because once upon a time i could walk past there and we're telling them they can't do this because we want to see their wall which feels a little over the top whoa whoa whoa hey folks let's have a conversation one at a time The attachment happens further back, usually. There's the opportunity. You've got, most often, I guess I'd say, the rectilinear footprint is running perpendicular to the streetscape in the new proposal versus parallel. And so many times the attachments are accomplished on the further away from the main facades and get your attachment further back, which is what you've got currently. You've got that, your attachments happening. Right. It just gets them around. You're totally right. It just gets them around. It was just a way to get them into the church. And so it didn't come forward. the challenge for me and we'll have to talk it over to the church is that we've explained for all the reason that happens and we have to say even though this does all these things that you need and that meet the guidelines the exposure of that wall is so important that it trumps every other consideration and that feels like it's putting too much priority on that consideration it's a substantial thing to consider it doesn't trump anything okay that's helpful I appreciate that that's helpful thank you Mr. Kane, the question also I think, you know, talking about this is typically the guidelines also talk about retaining the corners of structures a lot, you know, and find them very important. And I think, of course, obviously the recessed entrance does that, but I think you're still perhaps could consider about maybe shifting that structure back a little bit to show at least more of at least a front window. So you're not covering so much. So people have some reference of what that structure looked like at one time. because I think you could probably think about accomplishing that because that part of the loja is not as usable. So pushing back into that, but still be able to retain that structure and pushing that back as maybe Sarah mentioned as far as the staircase system, that kind of thing, because that was her first thing. Yeah, it's tight, but there could be a little room to maneuver. I think the guidelines typically talk about connectors, but typically we're always talking about additions on the back of structures, not inside of structures. And I think this is a bigger deal. This is not one of those things you can sort of sum up so easily. Oh, no, there are a ton of variables in that equation. And this is your challenge and your difficulty. That building is such an iconic building. I mean, it's a prominent building on Main Street that, you know, to hide it, and I know it's not sacrosanct, but I think Ms. Armstrong may be on the right point, push it back a little bit so a little bit more of that Western Wall can be exposed. Any other comments? I would just make one other observation. if it were me at the church I would say where do people have to park and then in relation to the new hall are they going to be closer or the farthest away from that when they're parking closer Yeah. But they don't park on Main Street. They park across the street from Main Street. They park some on Bell Court, and there's about 16 spaces on the property, and then the lowest folks park across the way and come across Main Street. They, yeah, they do. Okay, well, and I've been to the church for functions, and I was always sort of on the Bell Court side. So, um... Are you all gonna lose... But then they would have to cross the street where there's no crossing. That's what they have to do now. Yeah, well, I know the police come and help on Sundays and such, which is great. With the new development proposed at Main and Kentucky Avenue, across the street, are you all going to lose some of your parking privileges? I don't know the answer to that question. Thank you. Not that I'm aware. be a good question to maybe ask around because they're planning to put a parking thing that's going to serve them. That's good to know. Thank you. I sat through that meeting and thought of Good Shepherd. Thank you for thinking of us. Let's talk about that. Thank you. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Appreciate the time. We appreciate your time. This is the process. We have minutes to approve. Is it which months? March, April, and May. This would be March, April, and May. May. Thank you. And then I have made note about the comments for the May meeting about the motion for that one particular property regarding the Portico share. And I've changed those. Are you all comfortable with us approving the minutes almost unless there are changes? I'm sorry, I didn't hit the front. Do we have a motion to approve all three minutes, sets of minutes? Yes. Okay. I have a motion that we approve the March, April, and May minutes. Do I have a second? Second. There have been changes already made that will be reflected as noted. Yeah, and we'll note that in the minutes so that there is record that you took care of it in your motion. Okay. Hearing no objection, the motion stands, and the minutes are approved. Anything else? No. On that sad note, we're done. And done very well for many, many, many sessions, so thank you so much. Thank you so much. All right. Thank you, Chair. All right, we're done. I think the scale is a little longer. Candy, are we trying to do that? Thank you. Thank you. Maybe I didn't treat you quite as good as I should have. Maybe I didn't love you quite as often as I could have. Little things I should have said and done I just never took the time You were always on my mind You were always on my mind Maybe I didn't hold you All those lonely, lonely times And I guess I never told you I'm so happy that you're mine If I made you feel second best Girl, I'm so sorry I was blind You were always on my mind You were always on my mind Tell me Tell me that your sweet love hasn't died Give me Give me one more chance To keep you satisfied, satisfied Little things I should have said and done I just never took the time You were always on my mind You were always on my mind You were always on my mind Maybe I didn't treat you Quite as good as I should have Maybe I didn't love you Quite as often as I could have Maybe I didn't hold you All those lonely, lonely times And I guess I never told you I'm so happy that you're mine Maybe I didn't treat you What is good? We'll see you next time. I run, my, my, I do run, run, run, I do run, run. Yeah, she caught my eye. Yeah, my, my. And when I walked her home, I do run, run, run, I do run, run. I do run, run, run, run. Do run, run, run, do run, run. Thank you. Thank you. guitar solo We'll be right back. The Fast Lane Outrageous parties, they've been heavily built. There were lines on the mirror, lines on her face. She pretended not to notice, she was caught up in the race. Out every evening, until it was light. He was too tired to make it, she was too tired to fight her fight. Life in the fast lane, surely make you lose your mind. Life in the fast lane. Life in the Fast Lane Everything all the time Life in the Fast Lane We'll be right back. We'll be right back. All the time. I've been the fast lane. I've been the fast lane. I've been the fast lane. Thank you. We'll be right back. across the street. He's got a need, he just can't beat. Out on the floor, he shuffles his feet away. He'll get the girl cause he looks so fine. He's gonna win her every time. He knows he will. He's dressed to kill, he's a night owl. Move on. There's a heart of the night I'm calling To belong She's crying in the night Be strong Find the heart of the night I'm calling Stay up to God Until the night is gone What will become of the restless kind? Where do they go when they've done their time? Wearing their hearts out on the line for all to see. Must be the gypsy in their soul. They have a need to rock and roll. They always will. They're out there still, there's a night out Move on There's the heart of the night I'm calling To be long She's crying in the night Be strong Find the heart of the night I'm calling Stay up to the dark Till the night is gone We'll be right back. We'll be right back. Till dawn, till the night has gone Thank you. Thank you. The End Johnny B. Goode. Who never ever learned to read or write so well, but he could play a guitar just like a ring and a bell. Go, go. Go, Johnny, go, go. Go, Johnny, go, go. Go, Johnny, go, go. Go, Johnny, go, go. Johnny B. Goode. He used to carry his guitar and a gun in his sack. Go sit beneath a tree by the railroad track. The ball engine, everything flippin' in the shade Strummin' with the rhythm that the drivers made When people passin' by, they were stoppin' to say Oh my, what's that little country boy could play Go, go, go, Johnny, go, go Go, Johnny, go, go Go, Johnny, go, go Go, Johnny, go, go Johnny, be good Thank you. His mother told him someday you will be a man And you will be the leader of a big old band Many people coming from miles around To hear you play your music when the sun go down Maybe someday your name will be in life Saying Johnny be good tonight Go, go, go Johnny go Go, go, go Johnny go Go, go, go Johnny go Go, go, go, Johnny, go Go Johnny, go Thank you. Thank you. And my sight grew dim I had to stop for the night There she stood in the doorway I heard the mission bell And I was thinking to myself This could be heaven and this could be hell Then she lit up her candle And she showed me the way There were voices down the corridor I thought I heard them say Welcome to the Hotel California Such a lovely place Such a lovely place Such a lovely face Ready a room at the Hotel California Any time of year Any time of year You can find it here Amanda's Tiffany Twisted She got the Mercedes Benz She got a lot of pretty, pretty boys She calls fans How they dance in the courtyard Sweet summer sweat Some dance to remember Some dance to forget So I call every captain Please bring me my wine He said we haven't had that spirit here since 1969 And still those voices are calling from far away Wake you up in the middle of the night Just to hear them say Welcome to the Hotel California Such a lovely place, such a lovely place Such a lovely place They're living it up at the Hotel California What a nice surprise What a nice surprise With your alibis Mirrors on the ceiling They picked champagne on ice And she said, we are all just prisoners here of our own device. In the master's chambers, they're gathered for the feast. They stab it with their stealing eyes, but they just can't kill the beast. Last thing I remember, I was running for the door. I had to find a passage back to the place I was before Relax at the night, man We are programmed to receive You can check out any time you like But you can never leave Thank you. Music Thank you. Thank you. I love you Is not the words I want to hear from you It's not that I want to Not to say but if you only knew How easy it would be to show me How you feel More than words is all you have to do to make it real. Then you wouldn't have to say that you love me. Cause I'd already know. What would you do if my heart was torn in two? More than words to show you feel that your love for me is real. What would you say If I took those words away Then you couldn't make things new Just by saying I love you Mother Mother Thank you. Hey y'all, it's your Vice Mayor Dan Wu. And I'm Dave Sevigny, the Council Member for the 10th District, and we are here in the music capital of Lexington. Well Dave, that's a pretty big claim. Can you back that up? I sure can. We are here at the Moon Dance Amphitheater in Beaumont, home to a whole slew of musical activities, including Big Band and Jazz on Tuesday nights through June 30th. We've got Southland Jamboree on Thursday nights through September 3rd. And we've got Summer Nights in Suburbia every other Friday through September 18th. All of these events are free and open to the public. Wow, that's a lot of events in one place. But wait, Dan, there's more. We even have Tall Sound, which is a music festival that takes place behind Olika Shrine. Shrine on Southland Drive and it's generally on the fourth Sunday of the month. I think you almost convinced me. There's even more Dan. We actually have Woodsong's Old Time Radio Hour which takes place on Rosemont Garden at the Old Scottish Wright Building on most Mondays. Okay that settles it. The 10th district is definitely Lexington's music capital. Thank you. So we are out at Cooliff and Park, but we're in the Smithtown neighborhood looking to hear from the neighbors of Smithtown, both those that currently live here, that used to live here in the past, but then those that are connected to Smithtown. And our main goal today is to take steps towards preserving the history and the culture of Smithtown through many different efforts. One, through policy. Two, through making sure that we can try to bring some type of capital investment that actually preserves the history and culture of Smithtown. But then three, I'm trying to make sure that we get input towards what resources needed so that folks can live comfortably in the homes and in the places that they live here in Smithtown. So multi multi function solutions we're looking to do here at Smithtown. But at the end of the day, we're looking to preserve the history and culture of Smithtown. And the first step, what we want to do is listen to neighbors here in Smithtown and those that have been connected to Smithtown. So this all started first, you know, actually in February 2025, where I initiated the legislative item anti-displacement and vulnerable neighborhood preservation. And that item was initiated because we've seen a lot of our vulnerable neighborhoods here in the city of Lexington are facing pressures of growth. So we wanted to dive into the issue of how we can preserve the history and culture of some of our neighborhoods, but then also how we can make sure that we can address that challenge of displacement, making sure that folks have resources to live comfortably where they are. So in that process, my office worked with Council Member James Brown's office in the Office of Planning, and we dived into the challenge. And we realized that a lot of the tools in the toolbox to combat gentrification, to combat displacement, and just to combat trying to preserve, you know, different neighborhoods just don't work for some of our undervalued neighborhoods. So we wanted to come up with a solution. So we started at square one, and that's listening to the community, listening to the neighbors, listening to what do you want to preserve? What is important? What is historic about this neighborhood? all the great things and then trying to get that input and then putting that into action, whether that be through capital investments, whether that be through expanding resources, or whether that be through creating policies so that we know in the future if growth comes, when growth comes, those developers have access to community input, have access to information and context of how this neighborhood, how these neighbors want to grow in the future. So, yeah, today we're having a community event here in the Smithtown neighborhood, and it's part of the Neighborhood Voices Project that the Division of Planning, alongside the offices of Councilmembers Morton and Brown, are working on to basically uplift the history of neighborhoods and do a little bit of proactive community engagement in neighborhoods, especially those that are experiencing development pressure. So the Outreach and Strategic Planning section of the Division of Planning is the newest section and so we've only been around for a little over a year and this is exactly the type of work that we want to be doing is like meeting people where they're at out in the community talking to people trying to get as many people as possible engaged in the planning process because we really believe that you know the planning process works best when you know folks have a voice and you know just really trying to engage as many people as possible. So that's why we're out here in Smithtown today. I think today's event is kind of follow through on the work that we did with neighborhoods and transition, the mayor's commission on racial justice and equality, the subcommittee on housing and gentrification. When you're talking about neighborhoods that are vulnerable and are seeing a lot of change, it's good to hear from the folks that have historically lived in the neighborhood, have a tie to the neighborhood and have grown up in the neighborhood to tell us what what the neighborhood used to be, the history, it shares some of that insight, but then also talk about what the neighborhood could be going forward for the future and how it can adjust and absorb some of the change that's happening. So I can see this being a model that's going to go throughout the city and being something that we can do in other neighborhoods to empower the neighborhood to tell the city, developers, or whoever else coming into the neighborhood on what their neighborhood used to be, what it is, the history, and what it could be for the future. I'll just give a shout out to Councilmember Morton on the back for this initiative. And then also the planning department. Our planning department came to the table with him and myself and actually brainstormed and worked together to create this initiative. So I just want to give him some credit for this and give our planning department a lot of credit for this. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. Why don't you tell your dreams to me? Fantasy will set you free Close your eyes, girl Look inside, girl Let the sound take you away Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We'll be right back. Bye. So I'm back to the velvet, but underground, back to the cold, that I love, to a room with some lace and paper flowers. Back to the gypsy, that I was To the gypsy, that I was And it all comes down to you Well, you know that it does With lightning's fine Maybe once, maybe twice Oh, and it lights up tonight And you see your gypsy You see your gypsy Do the gypsy that remains Faces freedom with a little fear I have no fear And I know they love And if I was a child And the child was enough Enough for me to love Enough to love She is dancing away from you now She was just a place She was just a place And her memory is all that is left for you now You see you're a gypsy Oh You see you're a gypsy Ooh Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh It all comes down to me I still see your eyes It all comes down to me Thank you. Yeah. Come on. I had a friend who was a big baseball player Back in high school He could throw that speed for fire Make you love like a fool boy Saw him the other night at this roadside bar I was walking in, he was walking out We went back inside, sat down Had a few drinks But all we kept talking about Glory days Where the blood pass you by Glory days In the wake of the young girl's eye Glory days Well, we did Well, there's a girl That lives up the block Back at school She could turn all the boys' heads Sometimes on a Friday I'll stop by and have a few drinks Empty she put her kids to bed Her and her husband Bobby Well, they split up I guess it's two years gone by now. We just sit around, talk about the old times. She says when she feels like crying, she starts laughing. She's banging about glory days. Yeah, passing by glory days. And the wind in the end goes high. Glory days. Glory days. We're going to rock the wood. Rock it now. I'm going down to the well tonight and I'm going to drink till I get my fill. And I hope when I get old I don't sit around thinking about it. But I probably will. Yeah, just sitting back, trying to recapture a little of the glory of Well, the time slips away and leaves you with nothing, mister, but boring stories of Glory days, yeah, I'll pass you by, glory days In the wind of the young girl's eye, glory days Glory days Yeah, the world passing by Lory days And the way to the young girls Are Lory days Lory days Lory days All right Oh yeah All right Come on now All right Oh yeah All right, boys, keep it rockin' now. Keep on going. We're gonna go home now. We're gonna go home. Yeah. As the son of a son of a sailor, I went out on the sea for adventure, Expanding the view of the captain and crew Like a man just released from indenture As a dreamer of dreams and a traveling man I have chalked up plenty of miles Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks And I learned much from both of their styles Son of a son, son of a son, son of a son of a sailor Son of a God, no the last time, one step ahead of the jailer Now way in the near future, southeast of disorder You can shake the hand of the mango man As he greets you at the border And the lady she hails from Trinidad Holla for the spices Salt for your meat and scent of the sweet And the rum is for all your goodbyes Haul the sheet in as we ride on the wind That our foremothers' heart is before us Hear the bells ring as the tide rigging sings It's the son of a gun of a chorus Where it all ends I can't fathom my friends if i knew i might toss out my anchor so i cruise along always searching for songs not a lawyer a thief or a banker but a son of a son son of a son of a son of a sailor son of a gun the last time one step ahead of the jailer i'm just the son of a son Son of a son, son of a son of a sailor Seizing my veins, my tradition remains I'm just glad I don't live in a trailer Come on. Ooh, baby, I don't know why But somehow I always seem to get tangled up in my pride Ooh, baby, we're not that blind Deep down inside you know this love's worth one more try Don't push it all aside Cause I wanna be good for you I didn't mean to be bad But darling I'm still the best That you ever had Just give me a chance To let me show you how much I wanna give you my love touch I wanna give you my love touch Why can't I climb your walls and find somewhere to hide? Can I knock down your door and drag myself inside? I like your hamerson, baby, and maybe I like your life. I want to feel the breathless end that you come to every night. This ever-changing love is pushing me too far I feel the need to reach you right now wherever you are These empty arms are getting stronger every day Believe me, baby, they won't let you get away No, they won't let you get away If you want to be good for you, I didn't mean to be bad But darling, I'm still the best that you ever had Just give me a chance And let me show you how much I want to give you my love to me I want to give you my love to me Come on, baby, try it now Oh, you're gonna get a big love shot Oh, you're gonna get a big love shot Oh, baby, baby Let me see you What I need Give me a chance To let me show you how much I wanna give you my love touch You know it don't matter Who's right or who's wrong I guess I'm gonna find out That this love is strong Just give me a chance To win back your trust I wanna give you my love touch I want to give you my love touch I've got to give you my love touch My love touch, love touch, love touch Baby, baby, baby, I need your love touch I need some love touch Give me your, give me your, give me your love touch Thank you. We'll be right back. I don't want to wait till tomorrow Why put it on another day One by one little problem Build up and stand in our way One step ahead, one step behind it Now you gotta run to get even Make future plans, I dream about yesterday Hey, come on, turn Turn this thing around Right now Hey, so tomorrow Right now Come on, it's everything right now Catch your magic moment, do it right here and now You need everything, you listen to me You lose rhythm, and nothing falls in the place now Only missed by a fraction Set the little On your face The long Things you get The more you want Just trade it One for the other Work is so hard To make it easy Walk at the start Come on Turn this ring around Right now Hey, it's your tomorrow Right now Come on, it's everything Right now Catch that magic moment Do it right here and now It means everything Still like me What are you waiting for? Oh Yeah Right now Right now Hey It's your tomorrow Right now Come on It's everything Right now Can't set me The moment is doing right Right now Oh, right now Is what's happening Right here now Right now Right now Oh What are you waiting for? Whether I'm right or whether I'm wrong, whether I find a place in this world or never belong, I gotta be me I gotta be me What else can I be but what I am I want to live Not merely survive And I won't give up this dream of life That keeps me alive I gotta be me I gotta be me The dream that I see Makes me what I am That far away prize A world of success Is waiting for me If I heed the call, I won't settle down, won't settle for less. As long as there's a chance that I can have it all. I'll go it alone. That's how it must be. I can't be right for somebody else If I'm not right for me I've gotta be free I've gotta be free Daring to try to do it or die I've gotta be me I'll go it alone That's how it must be I can't be right for somebody else If I'm not right for me I gotta be free I just gotta be free Daring to try to do it or die I gotta leave me Thank you. If only just tonight, girl Let me hear you lie just a little Tell me I'm the only man That you ever really love Honey, take me back in my memory First when it was all very right So very nice So very nice Here, darling Stands another bandit Morning you Isn't that your life? They come and they go away Days and nights like a wheel But friends Brand another secret Thank you. But we say hello right now For just one real love Real love Real love Hey baby Real love I need to believe that Real love Real love baby Real love Real love darling Real love Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh We're running wild through a poacher Chalking up the hurt Living with her But we both live long enough to know That we're turning on right now With just one minute of real love now Real love Real love, real love, real love Real love, oh, oh, real love I need to believe that real love Real love, darling, real love Oh, just for real love, baby Real love, baby Just for real love, baby If you change your mind I'm the first in line Honey, I'm still free Take a chance on me If you need me, let me know, gonna be around If you got no place to go, will you feel it down? If you're all alone, when the pretty birds have flown Honey, I'm still free, take a chance on me Want to do my very best, but it ain't no lie If you put me to the test, let me let me try Take a chance on me That's all I ask for, honey Take a chance on me We can go dancing We can go walking Sometimes we're together I think it's a music Maybe just talking To know that you're up Cause you know I've done So much that I wanna do When I dream I'm alone with you It's me You want me to leave it there Afraid of a love affair But I think you know That I can't let go If you change your mind I'm the first in line Probably I'm still free Take a chance on me If you need me Let me know I'm going to be around If you've got no place to go When you're feeling down If you're all alone When the pretty birds have flown Honey, I'm still free Take a chance on me Honey, I'll do my very best And it ain't no lie If you put me to the test If you let me try Take a chance on me Take a chance on me Oh, you can take your time, baby I'm in no hurry No one gonna get you You don't wanna hurt me Baby, don't worry I ain't gonna let you Let me tell you now My love is strong enough To last when things are up It's magic. You say that I waste my time, but I can't get you off my mind. Oh, I can't let go. Because I love you so. If you change your mind, I'm a nursing life. Honey, I'm still free. Take a chance on me. If you need me, let me know that you're around. If you got your place to go, you're feeling down If you're all alone, when the pretty birds have come Honey, I'm still free, take a chance on me I'm gonna do my very best, baby, can't you see Gotta put me to the test, take a chance on me Take a chance, take a chance on me B-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b Honey, I'm still free Take a chance on me Gotta do my very best Baby, can't you see? Gotta put me to the test Take a chance on me Take a chance, take a chance on me Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba Honey, I'm still free Make a chance on me When I do my very best You can't do it Baby, let me be You love me tell you better Pull a chain around my neck And lead me anywhere Let me reap Oh, let him reap Oh, teddy bear I don't wanna be a tiger Cause tigers play too rough I don't wanna be a lion Cause lions ain't the kind you love enough Oh, teddy bear Put a chain on my neck And leave me anywhere Oh, let me be Oh, let him be Oh, baby Oh, baby, let me be Around you every night Run your fingers through my hand And cuddle me real tight Oh, let me be Oh, let him be Oh, baby, let me be I don't want to be a tiger Cause tigers play too rough I don't want to be a lion Cause lions ain't the kind you love enough You don't love me You're a teddy bear Put a chain around my neck And leave me anywhere Let me be your teddy bear Oh, let him be, oh, let him be your teddy bear. I just want to be your teddy bear. They read you, Cinderella You hoped it would come true That one day your Prince Charming would come rescue you You like romantic movies, you never will forget The way you felt when Romeo kissed Juliet All this time that you've been waiting You don't have to wait no more I can love you like that I would make you my world Move heaven and earth If you were my girl I will give you my heart Be all that you need Show you your everything that's precious to me If you give me a chance I can love you like that I'd never make a promise I don't intend to keep So when I say forever, forever's what I mean I'm no cast no more, but I swear this much is true And I'll be holding nothing back when it comes to you You dream of love is everlasting Well, baby, open up your eyes I can love you like that I would make you my world Move heaven and earth If you were my girl I will give you my heart Be all that you need Show you your everything That's precious to me If you give me a chance I can love you like that You want a tender name I've got tender names And I seek you To the heart of you If you want a man Who understands You don't have to look very far I can love you I can, I can love you like that I will make you my world Through heaven and earth If you were my girl I will give you my heart Be all that you need Show you your everything that's precious to me I could love you like that I would make you my world With heaven and earth If you were my girl I would give you my heart Be all that you need Show you your everything that's precious to me I could love you like that I will make you my world In heaven and earth If you were my world Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh It's her best. She said, hello, may I help you please? I told her something must be wrong with my phone. Cause my baby wouldn't hang up on me. Mr. Telephone Man, there's something wrong with my life. When I dial my baby's number, I can't click every time. Mr. Telephone Man, there's something wrong in my life. When I doubt my baby's number, I can't click every time. She let the phone ring twenty times before she answered. Let me tell you what happened then. A minute later, I got the operator saying, please hang up and please show the call again. Mr. Telephone Man, there's something wrong with my line When I dial my baby's number, I get a click every time Mr. Telephone Man, there's something wrong with my line I dial my baby's number, but I get a click every time Some strange man is on the telephone She keeps telling me my baby ain't had she She ain't got nobody like The situation's blowing my mind I just can't take this anymore Please, I'll leave it alone See what you can do I dialed the right number But I still couldn't get through Why don't you just check the line Just one more time if you can. I'm pretty sure my phone number is about a man. Mr. Telephone Man There's something wrong with my life When I dial my baby's number I get a click every time Mr. Telephone Man There's something wrong with my life I try to dial my number Baby's number I get a click every time Must be a bad connection, I give them one love and affection I just can't take this no more This into winter blew my mind I can't get my baby off the line I tried that information I can't get no cooperation Mr. Telephone Man Thank you. This town don't look good in snow. You don't care, I know. Venture a highway in the sunshine. Where the days are longer, the nights are stronger than moonshine. You're gonna go, I know Cause the free wind is blowing through your hair And the days surround your daylight there Seasons crying, no despair Alligator lizards in the air In the air Wishing on a falling star Waiting for the early train Sorry boy but I've been hit by a purple rain Oh, come on, Joe. You can always change your name. Thanks a lot, son. Just the same. Venture a highway in the sunshine. Where the days are longer, the nights are stronger than moonshine. You're gonna go I know Cause a free wind is flowing through your hair And the days surround your daylight there Season's crying, no despair Alligator lizards in the air In the air Thank you. driving trees went back me and Del were singing a little runaway I was blind yeah running down a dream that never would come to me working on a mystery going wherever it leads running down a dream I felt so good Like anything was possible Hit cruise control And rubbed my eyes The last three days And the rain was unstoppable There was always cold No sunshine You're running down a drink You never would come to me Working on the mystery Going wherever you need Running down a dream I rolled up, the sky grew dark. I put the pedal down to make some time. There's something good waiting down this road. I'm picking up whatever is mine. I'm running down a dream It never would come to me Working on a mystery Going wherever it leads Running down a dream Yeah, I'm running down a dream It never would come to me Working on a mystery I'm going wherever it leads I'm running down the drain Thank you. On this edition of Lexington Now, Juneteenth, stormwater grants and composting tips. I'm Neil Noah and welcome to Lexington Now for the week of June 15, 2026. Juneteenth is this week and Lexington has a schedule of events celebrating the occasion. This year marks the sixth year that Juneteenth is officially recognized as a national holiday and actually quite honestly it is the seventh year that Lexington has celebrated it officially. So, yes, we're on the cutting edge. So, Juneteenth flags will adorn Main Street beginning on June 15th. There will also be commemorative banners along the Legacy Trail from Isaac Murphy Memorial Art Garden to the North Lexington YMCA. And this year, we have eight different Juneteenth events beginning on Sunday, June 14th, and continuing through Sunday, June 21st. So first, on June 14th at 3 o'clock p.m., we have... The first...