# Urban County Council Meeting - January 13, 2009 > Auto-transcribed civic record · Council · January 13, 2009 - **Permalink**: https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/meeting/723 - **Source video**: https://lfucg.granicus.com/player/clip/723?view_id=14&redirect=true - **Date**: 2009-01-13 - **Body**: Council - **Last revised**: June 17, 2026 - **Length**: 22,834 words > ⚠️ **Auto-generated content.** Audio from the official Granicus video was auto-transcribed by OpenAI Whisper-1. Structured facts were extracted with GPT-4o; the narrative summary was written by Anthropic Claude Sonnet. Speaker labels and verbatim wording may contain errors. See [methodology](https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/about/methodology) or [report a correction](mailto:editor@lexingtonky.news). --- ## Meeting Overview The Lexington-Fayette Urban County Government Council convened on January 13, 2009, at 6:00 P.M. in Lexington, Kentucky, with Vice-Mayor Jim Gray presiding over the session. The meeting's agenda centered on a single item: an ordinance to change a property zone from B-1 to B-4, which was ultimately approved by the council. Over the course of the meeting, 2 votes were taken and 4 public comments were heard from members of the public. No presentations were recorded as part of the session's proceedings. ## Attendance The following members were present at the January 13, 2009 Council meeting: - Jim Gray - Blues - Crosbie - Ellinger - Feigel - James - Lawless - McChord - Stinnett - Beard The following members were absent: - Gorton - Henson - Lane - Myers No members were recorded as late. ## Votes and Decisions Two roll call votes were held during the January 13, 2009 Council meeting, both related to a rezoning matter involving a change from B-1 to B-4 zoning. - **Adopt the Planning Commission Findings (with Revisions):** Moved by Blues and seconded by Ellinger, the Council voted to adopt the findings of the Planning Commission with revised wording stating that the proposed B-4 zoning is appropriate. The motion passed unanimously, 10–0. [timestamp: 2:20:59] - **Voting in favor:** Blues, Crosbie, Ellinger, Feigel, Gray, James, Lawless, McChord, Stinnett, and Beard - **Voting against:** None - **Approve the Rezoning Ordinance (B-1 to B-4):** Also moved by Blues and seconded by Ellinger, the Council voted to approve the ordinance formally changing the zone from B-1 to B-4. The motion passed unanimously, 10–0. [timestamp: 2:24:51] - **Voting in favor:** Blues, Crosbie, Ellinger, Feigel, Gray, James, Lawless, McChord, Stinnett, and Beard - **Voting against:** None Both votes were unanimous, with all ten Council members present casting votes in favor and no abstentions recorded. ## Public Comment Four members of the public addressed the Council during the comment period, offering a mix of support and opposition related to a zone change application. **In Support of the Zone Change** - **Shirley Young**, President of the Meadowthorpe Neighborhood Association, testified that the association voted to approve the zone change application, though with conditional restrictions attached. [timestamp: 54:05] - **David Banks**, a member of the Meadowthorpe Development Review Committee, spoke in support as well, describing the committee's role in collaborating with developers to ensure that proposed developments are compatible with and conducive to the surrounding neighborhood. [timestamp: 56:25] **In Opposition to the Zone Change** - **Bob Layton**, speaking on behalf of objectors, argued that the proposed zone change is inappropriate for the area. He cited concerns about noise and stormwater runoff as primary reasons for his opposition. [timestamp: 58:09] - **Janey Jones**, manager of the local Goodwill store, raised concerns about flooding originating from Antique Drive and the impact that flooding has had on their business operations. [timestamp: 1:17:38] The public comments reflected a divided community response, with neighborhood association representatives expressing conditional support while other stakeholders raised environmental and operational concerns, particularly around water management and runoff. ## Contested Items - **Zone Change from B-1 to B-4:** A proposed zone change generated opposition from some community members, who raised concerns about noise and stormwater runoff associated with the rezoning. The item was not without support, however — the Meadowthorpe Neighborhood Association backed the proposal. The record reflects a split between neighborhood-level organizational support and individual community members who objected on environmental and quality-of-life grounds. ## Ordinance changing the zone from B-1 to B-4 [timestamp: 00:55] The Council took up an ordinance to rezone 2.8650 net acres located at 1447 Antique Drive from Neighborhood Business (B-1) to Wholesale and Warehouse Business (B-4). The proposed change included conditions governing permitted uses on the property as well as buffering requirements. Key speakers on this item included **Bill Sallee**, **Dick Murphy**, and **Bob Layton**, who participated in the presentation and discussion of the ordinance. The ordinance was ultimately **approved** by the Council. --- ## Decisions - **Motion** — passed (10-0): Adopt the findings of the Planning Commission with revisions - **Motion** — passed (10-0): Approve the ordinance changing the zone from B-1 to B-4 --- ## Full transcript Um. All right. Uh- We only have nine. ... it's Sunday morning. I want to acknowledge Inauguration Day. We only have nine. Is DC, no, not here. Is Kevin, is Council Member Stennit here? He's here. Jeff, you're supposed to be here. But he's here. He's present somewhere in the building? Knows how I feel. Texting. Do we do, have to do a roll call? Yeah. Yeah. We need, we need 10 though. We need all 10 of the council members. Here. Okay. Sounds like Council Member Stennit is arriving. Right here. Yes. We don't need to stand, do we? All right. Meeting will please come to order. This is a zone change hearing, um, for actually, Clerk, you can, Madam Clerk, you can give us- Let me take the role. Take the role first. All right. Y'all forgive me. I've done this about 10 times and I just have to confess to you that I never can remember. So y'all just have to bear with me as we go through this. I'll have to ask the clerk or other council members to help me. And fortunately, they're very kind and generous and they do. So Madam Clerk, would you call the roll please? Mr. Blues. Here. Miss Crosby. Here. Mr. Ellinger. Here. Miss Figel. Here. Miss Gordon. Mr. Gray. Here. Miss Henson. Miss James. Here. Mr. Lane. Miss Lawless. Here. Mr. McCord. Here. Mr. Meyers. Mr. Stennit. Yes, ma'am. Mr. Beard. Present. Thank you. Now, um, Madam Clerk, will you give a second reading to the zone change ordinance please? An ordinance changing the zone from a neighborhood business B1 zone to a wholesale and warehouse business B4 zone for 2.8650 net, 3.4609 gross acres for property located at 1447 Antique Drive, subject to certain use and buffering restrictions imposed as conditions of granting the zone change, Southern Industrial LLC. Thank you, Ma'am. Okay, the next thing on our, the, the, um, agenda is that everyone who plans to testify, I need to swear you in. So including the staff, so a-anyone who plans to testify tonight, if you'll please stand and hold up your right hand and respond after I ask you this question. Do you pla... What's do you plan to tell? Do you tell? It's only the truth. Yeah. Do you, do you solemnly swear to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I do. I guess so. All right. Thank you. Told you I forgot. All right. Now I'm gonna explain the, the rules, and I'll probably be corrected, as I said, by somebody. Susan or Bill, you've done this a whole lot more times than I have, so you can correct me, please. First thing that occurs in one of these hearings is that the council, the, uh, the city's staff presents on behalf of the city the summary, right, of the case, right? And that's gonna be Mr. Salih, right? Then next, after Mr. Salih presents, and you're gonna do that in about how many minutes, Bill, if things go well for us? 10 to 15 if- About 10 or 15 minutes. Just as so you all get a, a kind of an idea of how long we might be here. And, uh, we've got two new council members too, by the way, and this is their first experience for one of these. Next, the petitioner, and in this case, that is Southern Industrial, will present their case, and that's gonna be done by- Mr. Murphy. ... Mr. Murphy. Mr. Murphy, right. Thank you, sir. Then Mr. Mur, and in that, in that, Mr. Mur, in Mr. Murphy's presentation, he can be cross-examined by the objector. Is that right? Isn't that right? Okay. Then the opponent, those who oppose this have a few minutes to present their case. And typically we like to ask y'all to hold it to about 20 minutes. All right? Mr. Murphy, we had, had a little discussion about that a little bit before. You said that was gonna be tight for you. And, uh, we understand that, but it's, you're a very efficient fellow. We've seen it before and we know that you can do things very efficiently. Then after Mr., after the opponent presents the case, that'd be Mr. Layton. After Mr. Layton presents as the opponent, then there's cross examination opportunity there. Then the staff has the opportunity again to make any additional comments or make additional comments. Then the predict, petitioner has an opportunity for rebuttal evidence. Then the closing statements by the opponent or the objectors, and then the closing statements by the petitioner. After that, the council has a chance to ask questions of both. Okay. The staff of al-- ev-- of everybody, the staff, the petitioner, and the objector. Then after that, the hearing is closed, and the council votes to adopt the findings of fact. And when we get to that point, it'll have to be explained to us a couple of times, because it can be confusing. And that's what Rochelle will do, right? Our law department representative. Okay, now have I missed anything? Is that okay? All right, good. All right, then we're ready. Mr. Bill. Mr. Vice Mayor, thank you, Members of the Council, good evening. For our new council members, by way of introduction, my name is Bill Sallee. I'm with the Planning Services Section of our Division of Planning. And it's my honor to be here this evening to represent the division and also to present to you the recommendation from the Urban County Planning Commission on this proposed rezoning. As is required at the start of your public hearings, there are a number of items that we need to enter into the record this evening. The first is the legal notice placed in the local newspaper advertising tonight's public hearing. The second is an affidavit signed by myself regarding the notice letters that were mailed to property owners within 400 feet of this property that you'll be reviewing, and also to the nearest neighborhood association. Also need to enter into the record, the recommendation from the Urban County Planning Commission and then from their public hearing held, uh, last fall. Uh, there are copies of this that have been distributed to the council, and there are a few extra copies directly behind me on the counter for anyone in the audience interested. Need to enter into the record, copies of the current zoning ordinance and land subdivision regulations in effect for the urban county. Copy of the 2007 Comprehensive Plan for Lexington-Fayette Urban County. And then finally, a pink sheet of paper marked Staff Exhibit. Uh, this also was distributed to members of the council, and there are also copies of this available on the counter behind me. I'll be presenting this during the course of my comments in just a few minutes. To orient you to the location of the proposed rezoning that's before you this evening, I'd like to use, uh, Zoning Atlas Map Number 16 to show you that this property is in the Metathorpe area of the community, and it is, uh, on the north side of Main Street, which transitions to Leestown Road, very near the, uh, redone bridge overpass over the railroad line here. Uh, North Forbes Road is a signalized intersection at this location, uh, as is the intersection of Burke Road and Leestown Road at this location. Subject property is known as 1447 Antique Drive. Antique Drive is a local street that parallels Leestown Road and has very little visibility from Leestown Road. Antique Drive has a T at Burke Road and a T at North Forbes. It serves mainly the rear of the commercial properties that most folks are familiar with seeing along Leestown Road. The subject property is a triangular-shaped piece of land that is currently zoned B-1, and that is the zoning for almost all of the property directly surrounding the subject property, which is 2.8 acres that you're reviewing this evening. That's indicated by the red color on the zoning atlas. Only across Burke Road and Metathorpe Avenue do we find another zone that touches the subject property. That is R-1C. That is a single-family residential zone that only allows detached housing. All of the other property immediately adjacent to the subject property is B-1, neighborhood business. However, not all of the uses surrounding the subject property are commercial. To the immediate north of the subject property are a number of residential uses, both duplexes and multifamily structures. Immediately to the east, again, in a B-1 zone, we find professional office uses and also a childcare center, uh, in that location. Of course, we've mentioned the commercial uses along Leestown Road, which include stores, restaurants, uh, and shopping center types of uses. S- the single-family subdivision of Metathorpe is directly to the north, a short distance from the subject property. There's one more unique feature of the subject property worth mentioning. I mentioned it's triangular. It has, if you will, two wings associated to the property. It fronts along the entire portion of Antique Drive, and the wings I speak of are very narrow pieces of the lot that also front one on North Forbes and the other on Burke Road. Those are part of the zone change before you this evening. Uh, and in conclusion of my remarks, we will review the development plan, and those wings, if you will, uh, the use of those will become a little more apparent. I do have a few photographs that I'd like to show you of the subject property in the area, just again, to help orient you to the property that you're reviewing this evening. First, this is an aerial photograph of the subject property. This is Leestown Road. The signalized intersection with Burke Road is here. Signalized intersection with North Forbes is just off the map. Antique Drive is here, and the photo shows clearly it serves the, the rear of the commercial uses, uh, in the Metathorpe, uh, Shopping Center area. Okay. The subject property is shown, uh, in the bold line here, and it is entirely vacant with the exception of a very small area th- of it that is paved near North Forbes Road. ... on the southernmost portion of the property. This is an aerial photo looking from the east at the subject property, and we have Antique Drive here. This is North Forbes Road, Metthethorp Avenue, and Burke Road here. You can see the commercial uses, the professional office uses, and the residential uses that abut the subject property. Finally, this is looking at the subject property from the north, of Leestown Road, Burke Road, residential uses to the north, professional office uses to the east, and the commercial uses along the southwest of the subject property. As we do with all zone changes, we look for the guidance of the adopted comprehensive plan to evaluate the proposed rezoning, uh, both at the planning commission level and at the council when the council has public hearings. This is a portion of the 2007 comprehensive plan, and again, to orient you to the location of the property, here is the north-south railroad line, West Main Street as it transitions to Leestown Road, New Circle Road, the Metthethorp subdivision, and the Metthethorp commercial area is here. The subject property is directly behind those commercial properties here, and the land use, uh, recommendation for the subject property is for almost entirely retail, trade, and personal services use. That recognizes the existing B-1 zoning of the subject property. There is one slight exception to that recommendation. The wing of the property that I mentioned that's currently parking is shown here in a professional service land use. Again, the comprehensive plan identifies that property as part of the associated professional service uses immediately or nearby. There's a larger version of the comprehensive plan map posted, of course, uh, on the, uh, screen there, and we'll be able to use that should there be questions later in the evening. Once this application was filed with the Division of Planning, the planning staff initially recommended postponement of this rezoning request to the planning commission. There were two main concerns that the planning staff had in reviewing this proposal to rezone from B-1 to B-4, a wholesale and warehouse business zone. First, the staff did not feel that there were any, uh, significant landscaping buffers proposed between the subject property and the adjacent residential uses immediately to the north. Uh, and secondly, and from the initial filing, there was, uh, from the start, no, uh, proposal for stormwater improvements to the subject property. Uh, that was significant because the subject property is currently a temporary drainage easement. Uh, and we have one final photo to show you, uh, that illustrates this. This is looking almost due north at the subject property, and this is a pipe that is underground here at the subject property, and this one photo kind of illustrated the staff's initial concerns with this proposal. Uh, the property was designated a temporary drainage easement, and as you can see through to the residences to the north, the staff was concerned about how this use would be buffered from the existing residences to the north. Ordinarily, were those properties in a residential zone, the zoning ordinance would have automatic buffering requirements. Because it was in a B-1 zone and those uses are B-1, there is nothing inherent in that zoning ordinance to require buffering of those uses. The staff, uh, as time began to run out, if you will, on this proposal, uh, realized that the planning commission could no longer postpone this request as the, their hearing in October approached. And so the staff looked at the applicant's proposed restrictions on use for the subject property in light of those already permitted in the B-1 zone. And if I could refer you to the staff exhibit on the pink sheet, that shows the type of review that the staff gave the proposed rezoning and the existing allowable zoning of the property. Once the development plan was revised and stormwater basins were proposed as part of this proposal, the staff then evaluated what's allowed currently and what would be allowed if the rezoning were granted as it was requested by the petitioner. In short, the staff concluded that because of the restrictions that were being proposed with the B-4 zone, that that zoning, as shown on the bottom of the first page and the entirety of the second page of the pink sheet, would be more restricted adjacent to this residential subdivision. And for that reason, the staff could find that the restricted B-4 zone was more appropriate than the existing and unrestricted B-1 zone of the subject property. That led the staff to recommend approval of this rezoning at the planning commission hearing that was held, uh, in late October. On the 23rd of October, the s- planning commission heard not only from the staff, but also from the petitioner and from objectors at the public hearing, and at the conclusion of their hearing, they voted nine to zero to recommend, uh, conditional approval of this proposed rezoning to the council. Their findings were that the restricted B4 zone that was being requested, uh, is more appropriate than the existing and unrestricted B1 zone, which is no longer appropriate at this location. They had three findings to support that conclusion. The first, "The subject property is adjacent to a number of residential uses and is to be greatly restricted in its future use rather than unrestricted, uh, rather than the unrestricted business uses currently allowed there." Secondly, "Very little traffic impact was anticipated for, for the proposed machine shop and shops of special trade that are subject to this zone change." And thirdly, "The property's lack of visibility, its odd shape, uh, and the circuitous access for this property account for the fact that it has not developed, uh, for more than three decades, although being zoned B1." The Planning Commission's recommendation also proposes conditional zoning restrictions, both use restrictions that you can see on the bottom of the first page of their recommendation, which includes, uh, restrictions on ice plant, tire retreading and recapping, uh, establishments and display lots for vehicles, uh, service stations, circuses and carnivals, mining, kennels, animal hospitals, and automobile and truck repair, in addition to other uses. Also, the Planning Commission recommended four buffering restrictions for the subject property. Those appear on the top of the second page. A four-foot landscape easement, uh, no, uh, openings on buildings along the north property line unless required by codes, exterior lighting was not to be directed to properties to the north, uh, and there were to be no outdoor loud speakers on the subject property. These restrictions were found to be appropriate since they will help ensure that the proposed development will be more compatible with the existing residential uses immediately to the north of the site. The Planning Commission also reviewed the development plan that was submitted with this proposed rezoning. We have that on the board and it is angled to be oriented north to align with the other exhibits that we reviewed. Again, we have Antique Drive providing the property's frontage with North Forbes and Burke Road. The subject property has two buildings of 11,000 square feet proposed, both approximately 15 feet from the property line on either side. There are 42 off-street parking spaces proposed. One access, centrally located immediately opposite the access through the Leestown Road commercial area. Uh, in addition, as I mentioned earlier in my remarks, there are two stormwater basins now proposed along the wings of the subject property. The Planning Commission approved this development plan, subject to the council's decision this evening, uh, to approve the rezoning. That concludes my prepared remarks. I thank you very much for your attention. Of course, I will be available for questions later in the evening. Thank you. Tha- thank you, Bill. Okay, uh, Mr. Murphy, right? Gonna present- M- Mr. Murphy's gonna present for the petitioner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My name's Dick Murphy and I'm very pleased to be here tonight representing Southern Industrial LLC, which is the applicant in this application. With me tonight is Billy Newton. He's on the third row here. Billy and his son, Mark, are the owners of Southern Industrial, locally owned and operated company. Uh, also with me tonight is, um, Jim Black, who's right behind Billy. He's a engineer, he's a hydrological water engineer and a geologist. He's in private practice here in Lexington and he also teaches at the University of Kentucky. Uh, we asked him to look over our water issues on this. Also, with us tonight is Mike Robbins of Foster Roland who are our designer for this. Uh, Mike's in the back there, and Chas Height, who's a planner. Probably only one or two of us are gonna be speaking. We have other people available here to answer questions that may come up. Chas is gonna hand out my exhibits to you as I'm talking and e- I'm also giving the clerk the affidavit about the fact that we posted the notification sign on the property and it's been there for 14 consecutive days as required by statute. As we stand here toni- as I stand here tonight, we're very pleased to be here with the recommendation of approval from the Meadowthorpe Neighborhood Association. Uh, we've had six meetings with the association and the Meadowthorpe Development Review Committee and went through a process. Uh, later on, Shirley Young, the president of the association and, uh, David Banks, the former chairman of the Meadowthorpe Development Review Committee are here and I think want to make some brief remarks to you all. Um, and also, we're pleased tonight to have, as Bill Sallee mentioned, unanimous nine to nothing recommendation of approval from the Urban County Planning Commission. And there's a reason we got this and I'll discuss this in a minute. But just to give you background, we're requesting a zone change from B1, neighborhood business, unrestricted B1 to a restricted B4, restricted wholesale and warehouse business zone. Billy Newton and his son operate Southern Industrial and it is a company which installs machinery in factories. They install in Toyota and a number of other factories in Kentucky and Tennessee. Uh, they currently rent here in Lexington. They'd like to own their own business location and they'd like to keep that business here in Fayette County, keep the business here and keep the jobs here in Fayette County. Most of the work they do is off-site. The machinery is shipped directly to a factory. They go to the factory to install it. So what happens usually is workers come to the office in the morning, they load up the trucks, their pickup trucks with whatever they need, they go to the factory location, they work there, they come back in the evening, unload, and go home. Uh, during the day, there may be two or three office workers working in, in, in the, in the building. All materials are stored inside. Um, I initially thought this would befit in the B1 zone because it's more of an office type use, but we checked with building inspection, which everybody should do before they do anything, and, uh, building inspection informed us that we were classified as a shop of special trade, and a shop of special trade is a principal use in the B4 zone. So they said, "Well, if you want to do this on this property, you've got to get a zone ch- get a zone change to the B4 zone." Um, shop of special trade is like a carpenter's shop, plumber's shop. The closest thing to us is a heating and air conditioning shop, and that's because they go to the customer's location to install a furnace, for instance. They may do a little metal bending, duct bending at their office and bring it to the site. Now, in our business and Billy's business, what they do is they have to do a little bit of fabrication in the shop. Usually it's making railings and rails to put around the machinery so that workers don't actually back into machineries at factories. So they will do a little pipe bending to make rails. They will do a little bit of welding at this location. Most of their equipment is electronic. It's very low noise. I've been out to their shop a number of times, and, and they don't make a lot of noise even when they're working there. One time I was there, they, most of the crew was out to Nashville for two weeks, uh, staying down in Nashville, Tennessee to put in factory equipment there. Um, the, uh, as I said, this is low traffic. They don't have customers come in here. It's low noise, and we think it's a very good use for the building. The current status of this property is interesting. Uh, it's owned currently by Ted Osburn, or his company, which is Halifax Land Company, and Billy is purchasing it from Mr. Osburn. Um, if any of y'all been around a while, you know Ted Osburn was a major developer in this community in the '70s and '80s. Uh, he's reached the stage in the, he, he, he owns a lot of remnant parcels around town. Seems like every time I do a title search, you run into Ted Osburn's name. And, um, he is at the stage in life where he is getting rid of a lot of these properties. He didn't do anything with this for about 40 years, but he's decided to sell. That's what he wants to do. He's at that time of life where he wants to sell it. Uh, Billy is under contract to purchase it. So even though it's currently vacant, some use is gonna be made of this property because it is for sale by Mr. Osburn. It's zoned B1, and if you want to know what's allowed in B1, you can look at Medithorpe Shopping Center right next door, where they have, uh, in Medithorpe, there's a convenience store, there's a service station, liquor store, restaurants, Goodwill store, appliance store, an auction house, and that sort of thing. That's what's allowed in the current zone, B1 zone. Um, I put in my packet to you, I'm not gonna go over it since I'm trying to limit my time here, page two to six, just so you have it, is what, what's, what's allowed in B1 zone. I won't spend a lot of time going over that. Uh, the, uh, interesting thing about this case is that I'm pointing at the development plan here, or up at the zoning map, right behind us to the north is a row of duplexes and fourplexes. Now, to the east of us, on the other side, this is a triangular piece of land, to the east of us is a row of, they are B1, professional office buildings, mixture of type uses through there. Um, but both those stretches are zoned B1, neighborhood business, which means that this row of duplexes and fourplexes are non-conforming uses. They cannot be expanded because they're not allowed in B1. They're grandfathered in. They can stay there forever, but they cannot be expanded. Most of these houses are about a, they're very deep lots. They're over 100 feet from our property line. We're gonna be building 15 feet from our property line, so it's gonna be a good distance between there. In the B1 zone, which is existing, there's no side yards or yard requirements at all. Um, our property is limited with, by visibility and access. That's why we don't think B1 is appropriate. Um, if we could show the photographs on there, starting with photograph one, just give you a little tour of the area, the, um, first property... Well, that didn't come out very well in the... Oh, I think we can dim the lights here. It is actually better than, than reality here. Ah, you can see a little bit here. The, um, this is Antique Drive. We're looking back toward the... This is, the tree line separates us from the duplexes and fourplexes, which are just to the north of us along, uh, Medithorpe Avenue. If you go to the second line, this is a little better shot, second photograph showing that, again, that screening through there. Some reason this showed, showed up better at the planning commission than it does today. Going to the third shot there, the, um, this is, um, this is, this is farther back on our property. We're look- standing right here, looking about back. There is a stretch without one where we, where we don't have landscaping. We're gonna put landscaping in here. You can see there's an RV there, some outbuildings, and that sort of thing, properties along Medithorpe Avenue. We will be filling in the landscape area along this area here. Going to the next shot, shot four, we're looking over here at the back of the business properties now. ... none of... Our b- our property has no buildings on it. This is a building behind us. It's an old metal storage-type building on the property behind. If you go to the next photograph, um, this is the rear of the properties along North Forbes Road that we face up against. Go to the next photograph. Okay. This is what is directly across the street from... This is ou- out our front door, so to speak, along Antique Drive. And this is... Antique Drive is a public road, but essentially, it is the service road for MetaThorp Shopping Center. And every shopping center has its backside. I'm not criticizing MetaThorp Shopping Center. Ev- every shopping center has its backside. But this is why this property will never be used for residential purposes, and that is because if you open your front door, you have this right across the street from us. This is looking down toward North Forbes Road. The next shot shows the view toward, uh, Burke Road going the other way. This is our property on the right. This is the back of MetaThorp Shopping Center over on the left, and going to the next shot, this is the opening directly opposite us where Mr. Sally mentioned, our driveway comes out, and this is the opening between the buildings in MetaThorp Shopping Center. We're standing on our property, looking out toward Leestown Road. This is the Goodwill store on the left. This is the appliance store on the right. And it's a little deceptive because this property is aclo- across Leestown Road. There's no direct connection there. All you can do is you can turn left or right into the shopping center driveways. You can't get directly to Leestown Road off of this. So this is directly opposite our access point. Going onto the next photograph, there was discu- this is showing the earthen berm or, or the, the berm along going down toward, um, B- Burke Road here. The... this is a drainage facility, which is there now. It right through here is lower than Antique Drive and takes the water down down here. Our water does not cross Antique Drive to go to the shopping center. There was discussion about that at the planning commission, and we'll discuss that a little bit more in a minute. Going to the next photograph, this is showing the same berm going up toward North Forbes Road. This is the back of the property Antique Drive, and this is the berm going toward North Forbes, which is down this way on the development plan. Going to the next photograph, again, this is the rear of MetaThorp Shopping Center. Next photograph is just another shot of the rear of MetaThorp Shopping Center, which is opposite our property. Um, and going to the next photograph, these were two we took, uh, after the planning commission meeting. There was a statement made by an objector at the planning commission meeting that our property sloped 30 feet from the back down to the front, and our water crossed Antique Drive to go into the shopping center. Now, that is not the case. There is not a 30-foot slope here. That's toward the back of the property. You can see it gently rolls a couple feet down to this berm. Here's the berm that catches it and then goes down. And my last shot shows it even better. We're standing in the back of the property here, at th- at the tip of the property, looking toward Antique Drive. Now, if you look down here, you can see where, where the berm is right through here, and you can see that the, or the... uh, it's not exactly a ditch and it's an earthen berm, is lower than Antique Drive. Those cars are parked on the opposite side in the back of the shopping center there. So number one, there's no major slope on this property. As you all know, MetaThorp was the site of Lexington's first airport, and that's because it was relatively flat. There's a plaque in the neighborhood center talk- talking about the airport. But it's relatively flat, it does slope a li- gently down to this berm here, and then it, it goes to... or the swale, I should call it. I shouldn't be calling it a berm, it's a swale. A swale going down to the streets on either side, and, um, if there's water issues, and Mr. Black is here to discuss it, it's because in the MetaThorp Shopping Center, their gutters go down right opposite the building, and then the slope of their parking lot goes back into the building. So they're getting their own roof water off their own parking lot going back into their buildings there. They're not getting our water now, and they will not get our water if this zone change is granted, because we will design it to the standards of the urban county government, and, and that will not be done. So those are the photographs of the property, and, uh, the, um... we discussed with the association, one thing the association did not want this property to be used for is as a accessory parking lot for MetaThorp Shopping Center, and that would be possible in the B-1 zone. Parking lots are allowed. They didn't want it to be that way 'cause that might invite people to park there late at night and do things they shouldn't be doing. So we agreed to limit that and not allow that to be used as a standalone parking facility for MetaThorp Shopping Center. We are pleased to say we've been working with the MetaThorp Neighborhood Association on this one. Mr. Newton approached me, I recognized, we recognized the property is Zone B-1, and we talked to building inspection, we talked to planning, and we decided that if we could come up with a proposal for his business which was lower intensity, lower traffic, and lower noise than what was allowed in the current zone, B-1 zone, we would have the basis for talking to the MetaThorp Neighbor Association. Now, I'd worked on another case very closely with the MetaThorp Neighbor Association in the past, and I knew that they were very active and involved. So in March of 2008, we met with the MetaThorp Neighborhood Association to begin our discussions about this proposal. We didn't file our zone change till July, four year, four months after we s, made our first meeting with the Metathorpe Neighborhood Associations. So we engaged the association before we ever made this application, and that was a good process. What came out of it was a number of conditional zoning restrictions that are being proposed for this property. We have, I think there's a total of 22 uses allowed in B4. We've agreed to prohibit 13 out of them. Over half of the uses in the B4 zone, we've prohibited, plus we've put on four buffering restrictions on this property. Um, we learned about, a lot about the property in the process. We learned that there ha, the property's been used as living facilities for transients in the past. The neighborhood did not want that to continue. We learned it's been a cleanup problem in the past. Uh, we learned that they did not want that to continue as well. Um, and we found out the neighborhood did not want a high traffic generating or intense use on this property. So, um, here's what we've prohibited. If you could look at page 12 of my... Excuse me, if you could look at page, um, 10 of my handout, we have the list of uses that we have prohibited in this. There's 13 uses disallowed, which Bill has mentioned to you, including truck terminals, freight yards, auto service stations. Those are allowed now in B1. We prohibit them. They're allowed in B4 too. We prohibit them. Circuses and carnivals. It may not sound like a lot, but they create a lot of noise. Uh, kennels, animal hospitals, and truck and automobile repair, which creates some traffic and noise. Parking lots as principal uses. This is the one we talked about for no expansion of Meta Thorpe Shopping Center. And we had four buffering restrictions, which we put on there on page 10. A four-foot landscape easement around the sides, and the reason it's four feet, I'll discuss in a minute. No outside loudspeakers. No building openings on the back, except for stationary windows and doors, unless required for fire code purposes. In other words, no openings that would let sound out on this north wall of the building there. And exterior lighting would be designed so that the light source would not be visible to the properties behind it. And we... Some of them, we proposed. Some of these, the association proposed. Then we presented them to the planning staff. The planning staff then agreed with those, presented those to the planning commission, and the planning commission voted nine to nothing to approve our zone change request. Um, another way of looking at this is on page 12 of my handout on what we've taken out. And on page 12 you can see the yellow highlighting is what we have taken out, what we, we, we prohibited from using on this. The only thing that's left is what's in white, and I think you can see there that we've prohibited over half the uses allowed in the B4 zone. The ones that would be traffic generating, be big, intense uses, be noise generating, or that sort of thing. Um, the, uh... And a final way to look at it, I compared the B1 unrestricted zone with what we are proposing here on page 13 of my handout, and as you can see right now in B1 zone, which is its own, you can have service stations, liquor stores, restaurants, food markets, bakeries, parking lot as principal use, auto repair, arcades for electronic games or pinballs, pinball banquet facilities. All are principal uses. Nightclubs and cocktail lounges are conditional uses in B1. None of those are allowed in our B4 zone, as we have conditionally restricted it. Um, in B1, this is interesting. Would we have a landscape buffer in B1? No, and the reason is because there is... The property all around us is zone B1 as well, and we're not required to have any landscape buffer between B1 and B1. Uh, we do show a landscape buffer on our plan however, in the B4 restricted. But would B1 be required to limit the openings in the buildings back here? For instance, if they had a restaurant back, back there, serving alcohol, open till 2:00 AM, would they be allowed to have openings in that building? Yes, they would. Have we restricted those? Yes, we have. We cannot do that in our proposed zone change. Um, and here's an interesting one too. Would there be any planning commission review over what happens in the B1 zone? And th- the answer to that is no, because it's already zone B1, it's one lot, and all that's required is an application to the building inspector for a building permit to build on this property. Uh, obviously we do. We've submitted a preliminary development plan. If you are so kind as to approve this zone change for us, we will have to go back to the planning commission for a final development plan with all the review that that entails. Would there be storm water approval of this property? The answer is yes on both proposals, and the reason for that is that when Mr. Osborne was asked to dedicate the land for Antique Drive to the city 10 years ago or whatever, they did a plat, and they put a note on the plat saying that the rest of the property is a temporary drainage easement and before... Th- the drainage easement will be released by the Division of Engineering after they receive a comprehensive storm drainage plan for this entire property. So whatever zone it's in, B1 or B4, the Division of Engineering will have to approve a, uh, a comprehensive drainage plan. And last thing I'll put on there, will we be high traffic generator? B1, it can be a yes. Uh, our proposal, it is a no. We are not a high traffic generating use on this property. Um, I want you to remember, too, in B1, there's no setbacks for side yard, rear yard, no lot coverage, no floor area ratio. Um, there are not many of those in B4 as well. Although we are proposing those on our development plan here as well. The, uh, um, the comprehensive plan, um, as Mr. Salih mentioned, recommends retail trade, personal service on this property, has not been changed for many, many years on the property. We don't think it's appropriate for the reasons we advanced and the planning commission advanced to you. I do want to discuss though, that this is infill. This is a vacant lot which has not been developed and is... and I think the infill policies are very applicable to this property. Those are on page one. And since I don't want to take a lot of time, I'm not gonna read them all to you here on page one, but we do agree with those. We are... the first two deal with citizen participation and citizen organizations such as neighborhood associations. We have engaged them in a dialog which we think was very fruitful for this property. This does not result in change to the urban service boundary. We are establishing an employment area under Objective H at locations where public facilities are already adequate for it. We are encouraging, uh, we are utilizing infill and redevelopment in locations where services and infrastructure are already available. And last thing, on, on Objective C down on the bottom, I think this is very important, encourage retention and expansion of existing local industries and businesses. And as I mentioned to you, this is, we feel, an important local business in the community. The, um... I want to discuss four particular development issues. I'm going to go real fast, but I... water is going to be... I will... talked- touched on water a little bit on this property. There is an outlet on either side of this property and an in- inlet storm drainage facility on either side. Mr. Black has designed this and, and asked us to show retention in these wings, as Bill called them. He's not sure retention will be required, but when we do our final development plan, we have to do a detailed water study. We're reserving that space in case detention is needed, so we can provide it on site before it goes into the stormwater inlets. Um, the, uh... we do not have water going into the shopping center, as I mentioned. And as I mentioned, there's a note on the plat that created the street that we have to get approval of the Irvin County engineer before there can be further development on this property. So, we're regulated by the Irvin County government, and we do not have a big slope on this property, as I mentioned as well. We think water is not an issue, because it will be done properly and will be done with full approval of the Irvin County government and the way that they deem is appropriate and the way that our engineer deems is appropriate. I want to talk about noise, because that's an important issue too. A statement was made at the planning commission that we had refused to do anything that would deal with noise. Well, that's not the case. We were concerned about noise from day one and talked to the neighborhood association about it. We've agreed to restrict and prohibit a lot of noise-producing uses, such as truck terminals, automobile sales, which often have loudspeakers. We can't do that. No kennels. Um, and we also agreed to two specific issues regarding noise. One was no outside loudspeakers. Second is that one I mentioned to you about no openings in the building facing this direction, which would not be a requirement in the B-1 zone. And I'd ask you to compare this with what would be possibly going in there in B-1 with no restrictions on zone, whether it be a restaurant, whether it be a specialty, m- food market, whether it be a, a... even an office or liquor store, something like that. I think we will be quieter and have less noise than those uses. Now, what we could not agree to, what we were asked to agree to and could not agree to, is restrictions on hours of operation. We were asked to go seven to five, limit uses only seven to five, because Billy has said that's the normal hours of operation for this business. But we've always said, and he's always said, that there are times when they have to work later in the evening. If they have an emergency in the factory, they have to go to the office to load up and get out to the factory. If they're doing bookwork in the evening, they have to go there and work in, in the evening. We cannot agree to that for three reasons. One is, we do have to work there occasionally at night, just like anybody has to work at night. You're working at night right now. I worked at night getting ready for this hearing last night. People have to work at night at their offices. Number two, we don't think we can get a loan to buy this property with that kind of a restriction on there. It's hard to get a mortgage right now, and it's even harder if you go to the banker and say, "Well, you got this zone, but you can only be there from seven to five." What if you have the big contract with a big automobile producer and they tell you you got to get in there at 11 and you got to bring stuff with you, and you have to say, "Oh, I'm sorry, I can't get into my office after 5:00 at night." Would... if you were a banker, would you lo- loan money on that? I... maybe you would, maybe you wouldn't. A lot of bankers I don't think would. I consulted with Mr. Newton's real estate attorney this afternoon. He said, "You cannot agree to any restriction on hours of operation." Third reason is, Mr. Layton, who's the objector, is a very conscientious and vigorous person, and to be honest about it, if we have to work there... if we agree to restriction on ending at 6... at 5:00 at night, we don't want to have the police called if somebody is working in the building at 8:00 at night working on the books, on that. We don't think we can risk that. But we do think, very sincerely, we work with the association to restrict the number of noise-producing uses, and we ri- worked on restrictions that also cut down on the amount of noise from this building. And we have been very conscious about that. ... and we think it's a, it'll be a much quieter use than is allowed in B1. Lighting, this is one of the interesting things which we, we learned with the neighbors. When we met on, in July with, there were a number, a couple of homeowners along Meadowthorpe Avenue met with us. We decided that lighting is needed back there for security purposes, but they don't want lighting that you can see directly from the bulb to your eye. So we have agreed to shield lighting so it's going up against the back of the building with the light source shielded. That's one of the conditions we had. Uh, buffering, as I said, there's no buffering required in the B1 zone at all. Um, we agreed to a four-foot buffer, and it's interesting. The reason we agreed to a four-foot buffer, our building is 15 feet back from the property line. You might say, "Well, why don't you just plant the whole 15 feet?" And that's because something that came up in discussion with the association, there's been issues with transients out there. They didn't want an area grown up that might encourage transients to be there, and so we're just doing four foot along there. Can I have a minute? Just a housekeeping. Yes. You just give us an idea, Mr., uh, Mr. Murphy, Dick, I was gonna s- ... How much longer are we gonna be? Uh, I'll be no more than five minutes. Okay. Yeah. No more than five minutes. - All right, but then, and then you've got, and then Billy, so how many are gonna present on- Billy may speak- Yeah. ... if you want to, and then there's a couple of representatives of the neighborhood association. Don't wanna compromise your presentation. You got these- Okay. ... anxious council members up here. Okay. Okay? I wanna see Tennessee get beat also, so. Okay. The, um, traffic, we're gonna be a low traffic generator. I won't go into that anymore. Um, as I said, we regret that we have some objectors here. We had six meetings with the neighborhood association. I know Mr. Layton is here objecting. He came to the last meeting we had a week before the hearing at the planning commission out of the six, and had some other concerns. Those were thoroughly discussed by the neighborhood association. After, uh, that discussion, the neighborhood association voted 14 to three to approve our recommendation, and the Meadowthorpe Development Review Committee had had previous discussions and I won't go through all the items I have put in the last three pages of my handout. Those are some of the things that the Meadowthorpe Neighborhood Association put in the record at the hearing at the planning commission, but I would note that they delivered notice of the July meeting to everybody who lived in these residences behind us for the July meeting. That's where we had the discussion about lighting, about buffering, and that sort of thing, and, um, that was very helpful, and, um, anybody who had a, had a, could have come to that meeting or some of the other meetings to discuss this, I regret they didn't, and I regret truly that we can't agree to the last condition about hours of operation proposed by one of the objectors. We just can't do that. Um, but we, um, do want you to know that we are 15 feet off the line. These houses along Meadowthorpe are about 120, 100 feet off our property line. There's a distance there. But I'm gonna s- I'm gonna sum up my presentation here, and I thank you for listening to this. There's a lot of different issues and I'm sorry to take the time I did. I've been trying to talk fast tr- without losing my train of thought here, but we truly feel that what we presented to the association and the planning commission and to you is a lower intensity, lower noise generating, and better use that would go in, on this property than what is allowed in the unrestricted B1 zoning category, which is now on the property. This property is for sale. Mr. Osborne has decided to sell it. I don't know why. I'm not, he's not my client. I represent Mr. Newton who is the owner, but some, something is gonna happen on this property, and we think that this is the best possible proposal for, not only this property, but for his business and for Fayette County as well. Um, we app- and, and just in summing up, I wanna read, read to you what Mr. Frank Penn had said when he, I think, seconded the motion to approve this at the planning commission. This is in your packet of the planning commission report. He said ... I'm sorry, he didn't second it, but he discussed it. Said, "Mr. Penn stated that he would support Ms. Whitman's motion because he believes that a B1 use would be more intensive should the property develop as such. He said that he believes that the proposed B4 zone with those conditional zoning restrictions would be less intrusive and better for the Meadowthorpe neighborhood." And that pretty much sums up our case, and I think the Meadowthorpe Neighborhood Association agrees with that. We thank you very much for your time. I don't know if Billy Newton wants to speak right now or if you want to speak later. He said he doesn't want to. He's a very charming guy and I, I, he'd be interesting for you all to hear. Um, I know Shirley Young is here from the president of the associations, and she's not part of my presentation, but I did wanna note she's here and I think she does wanna speak. We have our engineer, planner, designer here. I'm not gonna ask them to speak, but I want 'em, you to know that they're here if you have any questions on any aspect of this proposed development. Thank you all very much. So Shirley, do you wanna speak? Welcome and I've, you're- Good evening ladies and gentlemen of the council. And- I'm Shirley Young. I live at 220 Bowling Springs Drive in Lexington, and I am the president of the Meadowthorpe Neighborhood Association. In your packet this evening, or I handed out to you a letter from me, signed by me. I'm simply here to testify that that is my signature, that the neighborhood association did vote to approve the zone change application with the conditional restrictions. I'm also here to tell you that the Meadowthorpe Development Review Committee has met for many, many months. Uh- Those folks are made up of a variety of people. They are well qualified to serve and make recommendations to the neighborhood association. Uh, they consist of, um, um, architects, people with group d- degrees in education, architectural degrees, architectural design, construction design, waste water management and a variety of engineering degrees. Um, I'm just simply here to testify that we do have a group of folks that have the best interests of the neighborhood at heart, are qualified to make recommendations to the neighborhood after meeting for many months with the developer and his, uh, attorneys. We've also met with counsel and, and so- sought their device, their advice on many occasions. Uh, David Banks will, who is a member of the MDRC committee and a former co-chair will address the council, um, a- as to any questions that you all might have. Thank you for having us and appreciate your cons- your support. Thank you, ma'am. Thank you, Ms. Young. So anybody else want to speak on behalf of the petitioner? Mr. Banks is. Okay, Mr. Banks. Good evening, I'm David Banks. I live at 300 Pelican Lane, it's in the Methothorp Neighborhood Association. Shirley asked I just make a brief comment. As she pointed out, I was the co-chair of the MDRC Committee during the time that this, um, development was under consideration. Just to be, brief background on the Methothorp Neighborhood Association, it's one of the oldest neighborhood associations in Lexington. The Methothorp Development Review Committee was established maybe six years ago or longer. I've been involved with it for about five years. The sole purpose of this committee was, uh, based upon the fact that the neighborhood association realized that Methothorp neighborhood was in a fairly interesting position in that it is primarily surrounded by industrial facilities. There , as land gets more and more scarce, there are more and more opportunities for this land to be converted to other uses, so the neighborhood a- association created this committee specifically for the purpose of working with developers to oversee and work with, uh, the developers to try and develop, uh, the land and redevelop the land in a manner that's conducive to our neighborhood. This is not our first rodeo, as they say. Uh, this is the third such major project that I've been involved with. There are several others of much larger nature that allowed us to cut our teeth on things like zone change and waste water treatments and, uh, lighting and conditional uses and noise, et cetera, et cetera. I won't bore you with all the details. As Shirley pointed out, we did have a number of meetings about this. We're, we're open to neighbors. We sent invitations specifically to neighbors of properties that abutted the property prior to a vote, uh, in full neighborhood association meeting that did approve this zone change request from a neighborhood standpoint. I don't really have any other comments. If there's questions, I'm happy to answer 'em. Okay. Thank you, David. Thanks. So next on, uh, the agenda is the presentation by the opponent, uh, Mr. Bob Leighton. I believe, Bob, you're representing the opposi- the objectio- objectors. Thank you. Yes, sir. I didn't bring one of these handy-dandy laser pointers. Well, Mr. Saleh has those in abundance, so... If you can figure out how they not, that they don't wiggle on you, though, that'd be... And it looks like if we're... I'll try to keep it to 40 minutes. That'll give us an even shake. But, uh, I, I want to say, first of all, council members and staff and my friends and neighbors of Methothorp on both sides of the aisle, I want to thank all of y'all for being here. It's a cold, snowy evening. The Cats are playing at 9:00. You all are here for the same reason I'm here, because you all think it's important to serve our community and have our community go in the right direction. Thank y'all very much. I really do appreciate that. Um, I have filed petitions authorizing me to object on behalf of 115 other residents in Methothorp and businesses who officially oppose this application. The very two same reasons that all of Methothorp is threatened by and opposes this application were first identified and well-defined by the Lexington Planning and Zoning Staff last summer. The staff recognized in their written reports then that having an industrial machinery shop immediately adjacent to and within a few feet of the property for an entire street of residential duplexes is not appropriate. In their written reports, the staff also recognized the dangers presented to motorists, pedestrians, Methothorp neighbors and two blocks of businesses immediately downstream and downhill from the water runoff that more than three acres of impervious surface would add to an already problematic location. First, there is a misstatement concerning the law. The statement and everything that you heard from Mr. Murphy, everything was a comparison. Well, B-4 is better than B-1 with these conditions. B-4 is better, more appropriate, that's the language that the Planning and Zoning Commission used, is more appropriate. The test in the zoning ordinance is not that. The test in the zoning ordinance is that the existing zoning classification was inappropriate and that the proposed zoning classification is appropriate. It's not a comparative test. It has to be appropriate. And even if it was a comparative test, a business use that does not include industrial machinery noise is, by definition, not going to be as invasive from a noise standpoint as a machine shop, which is part of this proposal. On appeal to courts, the circuit courts rightfully give broad latitude to administrative hearing decisions, but the law recognizes two exceptions, both of which would exist if the applicant's zoning request were approved. The courts cannot give any latitude when there are mistakes of law, such as a mistake of inserting the word more before the word appropriate. The zoning ordinance does not have the word more in its language. The other place that no difference can be given is when there are no facts to support the administrative decision. Concerning the facts, as you listen to the proof, I will ask you to keep in mind two points. And this is my opening statement, so forgive me a little bit. I will then move into testimony. First, the ordinance requires that the proposed zoning to be approved must meet the test of being appropriate, not just in some way more appropriate than the existing zoning. The question is then, can a machine shop a few feet away from a street full of residences be appropriate considering the existing residences and the need for those residence occupants to be able to sleep in them? What facts can be presented here tonight that will fundamentally change the inappropriate use of a machine shop immediately adjacent to an entire street of residential properties? Now, the other thing that the proof in the evidence will show tonight is that Mr. Murphy is flat wrong. Water is not caught by the berm. This water... Meadow Thorpe is not flat, and this water is not caught by a berm. This water flows across Antique Drive, into the existing businesses, into the parking lot, and right on out into West Main Street, right on out onto Leestown Road. This hearing, i-i-the property, the stormwater easement for this property that was referred to includes a quarter mile of downhill stormwater runoff that comes from th-the top of Forbes Road, down Pepper Road, hits into Meadow Thorpe Avenue, and then goes into a drainpipe which goes straight into this property. The very top part of this property has a drainpipe that's about this wide, foot and a half wide, that has water that is coming from the streets of Lexington being poured into it. That is water which is part of what is at issue tonight. I believe that this presents a question of whether we will have a fundamental respect for the property rights of the businesses in the shopping center and where we will meet a fundamental responsibility to protect the lives and well-being of Lexington's citizens. Lexington has committed so many resources to solving the stormwater runoff dangers. And yet this application brings a huge amount of new impervious service to an already threatened business area and neighborhood. One other point, there has never ever been any discussion, suggestion, or request that hours of operation be limited. Lexington's zoning uses do allow for conditional zoning that specify one of the first permitted specifications for restriction on zoning use is time and noise restrictions. That's not the same as operation restrictions. There has never been a discussion that in some way the property owner should be limited to certain hours to use their property. Simply that they agree not to have noise breaking the barrier of the property in the same way that the Shell station and the Sharkey property was similarly agreed to a restriction a few years ago. Can I please get the photos started in, on folder one? I would like to testify that these photographs are a true and accurate depiction... Oh, sorry. Are a true and accurate depiction of the area immediately downhill and downstream of the subject property that were taken on December 24th of 2008. There was a prolonged rain that day. There was no flood watches. There were no flood warnings. There were no weather advisories or special statements that would make this an extraordinary rain event. The depth of the water and the dan- This picture was taken at, uh, approximately 10:15 to 10:30 AM. You can see how the water is completely blocking the outbound lane. If you go out the front door here and turn left, this is W-M-West Main Street. This is Leestown Road directly in front of the shopping center. Um, and in fact, you can see right there a Lexington police officer's car, because he is out in the road to keep people from being injured when they strike this water. This water, I hit it. This water could crack your engine block. I mean, this is the kind of water that if you were going too fast, it's gonna either send you hydroplaning into another vehicle or off the road into a telephone pole, or it's gonna crack your engine block. He remained at that location for about 45 minutes till the water, for a moment, went down. Next picture, please. Um, keep going. These are just more photos showing the police officer. Keep going, please. Uh, this is across the street. That van right there is a good marker for you as we go through these photos. That van is parked directly in front of an alley, and the back end of that alley is downhill from this subject property. N-next picture, please. There is a car striking the water. Next picture, please. You can't tell it, but there is a car underneath all that water as it is trying to make its way out Leestown Road. Next picture, please. Another car trying to make it. Thank you. Next picture. This shows, look how close this water is to going over the edge of even the grass separating the parking lot from Main Street. I mean, this is not, this is not just a little water on the side. This is water which is ponding to the extent that it is, uh, uh, preparing to overflow the entire parking lot. Another car. Thank you. Next picture, please. Another car being, uh, uh, trying to deal with that water. Another car. Thank you. A truck. Thank you. Um, another photo of that. Keep going, please. Another car. The next. Thank you. Now, this shows the nature of the water flooding, which is currently existing right here, which is all downstream from the subject property. Next picture, please. Again, next picture, please. Now, this is Antique Drive. Thank you. Next picture. This is looking up Antique Drive from where I told you that van was and that alley was. If you look right there, that is where the water is running off of this property. I've saw it with my own eyes on this day. Next picture, please. Now, that van right there is the van that I said you could use as a marker. That van is the one out there where all that flooding is occurring. So, this is the alley, and if you see this alley, it's not an alley right now, so much as it is a river. A river runs through it. Next picture, please. This is the subject property. There's no berm there, is there? There is water coming off of that subject property, directly onto Antique Drive. Next picture, please. Coming downhill on Antique Drive. Next picture, please. Um, and arriving again, right by where the van is. This shows how close the parking lot is to actually becoming part of a lake that is also part of Main Street. Next picture, please. Next picture, please. Um, now, this shows Antique Drive right there. That street there is Meadow Thorpe Avenue going uphill. It's not at all flat. This is a downhill side. Where this picture was taken from is where all of the water for Burke, Meadow Thorpe, Antique Drive, the parking lot, all of it comes right down here, and then goes under Leestown Road and goes off over to Lisle Road, downhill that way. There is no magic berm. There is no parallel univor-verse that is going to somehow suck up all this water that's got to come downhill. Next picture, please. Um, again, this is from the liquor store's parking lot showing the park thing. Next picture, please. Uh, again, another one. Thank you. Another one. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. And th- these are photos that were taken later in the afternoon that show the extent of the water rising even higher than it was in the morning. Uh, more, please. I, I think you get the idea. Okay. Can we change to the other folder now? Um, excuse me. Again, uh, I, now, we're starting at the top of Forbes Road. If you've ever gone back North Forbes Road, I live on North Forbes Road, um, if you've ever gone back Forbes Road, this is the top of it, where at this point, if you're going back into the subdivision, it would veer to the left. Spalding's house is right behind me where I'm taking this picture. This is the corner of Leona and North Forbes. The interesting thing is, this is downhill. This photo shows the start of where the water goes in Meadow Thorpe. Right here, a quarter mile later, I'll show you where it winds up. Next picture, please. This is proceeding down Forbes to the intersection of Pepper. Pepper veers off downhill and to the right as you're going out of the subdivision down Forbes. Next picture, please. Again, this is the top of Pepper now. This is not flat. There are no storm drains to take any of the water off at any point from the top of Forbes to here. Keep going, please. Nor is there one here. Keep going, please. You go all the way down to the bottom of Pepper to Meadow Thorpe. Right there is what the first opportunity for that quarter mile of storm water runoff to hit, and it's right there. This is the drain, uh, between 1480 and 1484 Meadow Thorpe Avenue. All of the water hits here. Next picture, please. Another one. Next picture, please. This is the driveway, uh, between those two duplexes where that drain shows. Next picture, please. Now, here is a picture just showing the back line of the duplexes. These are residential backyards. These are not deep. Next picture, please. Um, this shows the side of the yard. Right there is where the drain that I just showed you on Meadow Thorpe Avenue, the other end of that drain is situated right there. You've got a quarter mile of storm water runoff that is situated and put right onto this property. Now, the other, before we leave this photo, can we go back to this one? Before we leave this photo, the other thing that this demonstrates and that is fundamental is there is no way that a machine shop resident, uh, uh, uh, machine shop use is appropriate. The question isn't whether the current zoning is inappropriate. No one contests that. Of course, it's inappropriate. The question is whether simply put, a machine shop is appropriate next to residences. It is not. There is no question of whether it would be comparatively less. It has to be appropriate. Next picture, please. Uh, these are two of the duplexes that exist there. Two of the older residents of Medithorp, Mr. Walter Tuttle lives there. Uh, these people are people who are the ones who are going to be... I'm not going to be bearing the brunt of this. Uh, the people who are going to be bearing the brunt of this, as far as the noise and the disruption, are these people here. Next picture, please. This is looking downhill from Medithorp Avenue to Burke, and right there is Antique Drive, which is the downhill bottom end of Antique Drive, which is where all the water is flowing to. Next picture, please. Uh, another photo. That shows the liquor store right there. Next photo, please. Now, this is that drainage pipe that I just mentioned, starts at the top of this property. Next picture, please. And proceeds on down the property here. Notice all these trees here. All these trees here, right now, tree roots soak up water. They're keeping this from being an even more catastrophic problem than it would otherwise be. Next picture, please. There is a stream, if you will, a ditch right there, with all this water going right through the middle of this property. Next picture, please. And down at the bottom end of that ditch, you have a daycare playground center. Th- that's on the, uh, forest side of this property. Next picture, please. And again, this is the same photo, uh, without the rain, flood waters coming across it. This is the subject property, uh, right there by the Goodwill store. Next picture, please. And this is, turning the other way from right there, is the Goodwill store. Next picture, please. Going down the hill, this is looking down Antique Drive. That is not flat. That is going downhill. Next picture, please. This is looking uphill from the bottom end of Antique Drive. Next picture, please. Again, next picture, please. Okay, right here is where the water comes through and marries up with the flooding problem that you've already observed. Next picture, please. Um, and this shows the downhill side of Antique. I think that's it. Is that it? Uh, this just shows the front end of it. Um, again, the, uh, excuse me. Sorry. Um, concerning the representation by the applicant about Medithorp approving, I was present at that meeting. There were 14 residents who voted in favor of it. There have been 115 who have expressed their opposition to it. Not a single resident voiced any personal approval for this project. All of them simply said, "It's better than what could be there now." As a matter of law, that is not the test. The test is whether or not an industrial B4 use is appropriate. Whether it is appropriate from a noise standpoint for the residences, whether it is appropriate from a storm water runoff. I submit that there has not been any proof submitted that the commission could rely on to grant the amendment, because everything that Mr. Murphy has talked about has been a comparison. The planning services staff in its original report said, of course they did later recommend approval, as, uh, Mr. Sally said, that the subject property is not currently proposed for any improvements and is technically undevelopable as, at the present time, as it, as it is entirely designated as a temporary drainage easement. This area's been subjected to repeated flooding, damages and risks, and if the subject property only adds a small percentage more storm water runoff, it will cause increased damages to the businesses, drivers and pedestrians in the downhill area, and will cause further storm water runoff from Lexington's public streets uphill of the property, to cause more flooding of the businesses and of West Main Street. I hope I didn't run through that too quick. I'm trying to, uh, get everybody home in time for the Cats game. Um, I appreciate your time. Does anyone have any questions? Um, Janey- Janey Jones would like to be heard from. She is one of the businesses who is facing a severe impact here. Sure. Thank you all. Miss Jones. Thanks, Bob. Miss Jones, you wanna speak now? And then Mr. Murphy, Mr. Murphy, if you wanna, any cross of these comments? Uh, none. All right. Hi, I'm Janey Jones. Good evening. Um, I don't know about the zonings or anything like that. I'm just a business person. Um, I managed Goodwill a little over nine years. Um, just a brief input, I don't know if everyone knows here what Goodwill does for the community. Um, we employ people with disabilities and disadvantages so they can maintain a better quality of life. So, I just wanted to go through and tell you, on 9/23/06, there was rain coming from Antique Drive, off the landing, which you see. I don't have a picture of it, but I do have pictures of my store. Um, rain did come through Antique Drive, came across. And if you wanna show the pictures of the... This actually is the dollar store. She could not be here tonight because she had a death in the family. Their water was two feet up in the dollar store, and they had significant damage. That's the only one I have, the dollar store. The rest are of, um, the Goodwill store. So... Basically, you just, you can see the glassiness. That is the water of our store, and you can see the water coming out our donation door there. And this is all coming from Antique Drive, of the slope that comes down. ... of the... There's no, like the sewer, there's nowhere for it to go, but in our business. Um, that day we lost approximately $8,200. That can't continue or we would not be able to stay in the shopping center and, you know, we do take care of the Meta Thorpe bus... you know, take care of the Meta Thorpe neighborhood by their donations and giving people jobs. Th- S- That's our ba- that's our bathroom. Really don't know what that one is. There is a... Can't really see. That's just the floor of the lighting, just the water. Okay. That's in our very back room. All the businesses on the right side, with the exception of Speedway, the Meta Thorpe Café and the barbershop did not get flooded, but the rest on our side did get flooded with substantial amount of, um, loss. And I believe we have one that shows you how much water we had, um, the one where the girl has on her jeans. If you can see, that's someone standing in the water, it's up to her calves. That is runoff from Antique Drive. So... And that's just basically of our store. We had to cut... We had... It was on a Saturday and I walked into that and there was no, nothing on the... Like he said, there was nothing on the we- different rain, the weather saying that it's gonna be a flood that day or anything. Um, we're just concerned that if that was to happen and it's gonna be f- a f- you know, if there're... Gonna be a rundown all the time. Anytime it rains, we have to put s- sheets up against our doors. We've added sub-pumps. I supply everybody in our strip there with sheets and blankets to put under your doors so we don't, you know, get flood, just by regular rain. And that's basically- Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Jones. Mr. Salid, is, next on our protocol is the, any additional comments by the staff. Are there any additional comments by the staff? After this, after what you've heard? There are. Bill, I see you're coming to the microphone. All right, sir. And then after that, the , after Mr. Salid's comments, petitioner's presentation of any further evidence be... All right? Go ahead. Thank you. I just had one comment. I wanted to, uh, inform you that the, uh, photo that you saw of the childcare center, uh, I failed to mention in my earlier remarks about half of their outdoor play area is located on the subject property. Uh, obviously there is room to relocate that, uh, between the professional office building on North Forbes and the subject property, but as it's currently configured, about half of that play area, uh, is on the subject property. Thank you. All right, thank you. Yeah. So we're now the... So, so Mr. Newton, you'd, you'll be presenting rebuttal evidence, is that what we're doing? Oh, yes. Okay. Yes. Billy Newton, my client, would like to pro- di- talk a little bit in rebuttal and I think Jim Black, our engineer, would like to discuss the storm drainage issues that were raised, just briefly. All right. Okay. Billy. We run a maintenance company and a, and a machine shop, you know, and, and all of our employees are from Lexington and that's been my home for 50 years, so that's why we're really trying to buy this. But if all that water's on our lot, I assure you I wouldn't want to... I don't have a use for that lot, you know, there, there's no water on our lot. There's a ditch that goes down there, but no water runs through it. I challenge you to go out there the next storm and look. You know, I've watched it now for a year, if it had water on it, I wouldn't have any use for the building because you can't build a building in a mud hole. But anyhow, that's, that's neither here or there, but it is... We run a, we run a good business, quiet business. We service all the plants from Toyota to Versailles and we load up in the mornings, we go and we come back and, and I know that's a good neighborhood and we've gave till we can't give anymore, you know? We've even let them pick out the type of material for the building. So we're trying to, trying to fit in for the neighborhood. I hope you all consider this. Thank you, Mr. Newton. Um, and h- who else is gonna speak? Mr.- Mr. Jim, James Black, our engineer. Oh, yeah, Mr. Black. Okay. Good evening, I'm Jim Black. I am licensed as a, uh, civil engineer, land surveyor and geologist in the state of Kentucky plus some other states. Uh, I'm gonna show some photographs also of, uh, the area. I don't have nearly as many. Um, I was out there during the rain. And if you would show, please, 1703. This is a storm, an existing storm drop inlet. In the, uh, in the rear of the businesses that are on South, uh, North Forbes, this was the day after the Planning Commission meeting. If you remember, we had a very dry, uh, fall, summer and fall, so there was not a whole lot of opportunities for me to observe water falling out there. It did rain the next day. This was, uh, late in the afternoon, which is one of the reasons why the pictures are kind of dark, but this, uh, it, it, it had been raining most all afternoon, kind of a general steady rain. And on this storm inlet, um, which drains the parking lots of the businesses on North Forbes, there was very little water coming into it. There was a tad, but very, very little. Okay, if we'll go now to 1704, please. This is looking from standing on top that drop inlet down, uh, Antique Drive, and you can see that it was most certainly raining. Now, I did not observe any water coming across Antique Drive. Now, if we get a significant rain, then I don't know that I can say that because I haven't seen, I haven't seen that kind of a rain yet. The, uh, tree area that was spoken of wh- is a, is kind of a low area. It's on this side, the right-hand side of the, uh, photograph. It is currently collecting a lot of water. I don't know if that's, uh, uh, is currently, uh, a closed depression, whether that's natural or whether it's man-made by the fact that this is the last lot to develop. Frequently, the last lot is the recipient of a lot of extra material from other developments. That's to be seen during the, uh, investigation. Uh, if you go to 1705, please, I did now turn around and look at the businesses, uh, the back of the businesses in MetaThorp Shopping Center, and we can most certainly see water pooling. This is Antique Drive in the lower part of the picture. Th- these are the buildings. We can see the water level. From this picture, you can kind of gauge the relative elevation of how high the, uh, blacktop is on Antique Drive versus the finished floor elevations and the doors of the MetaThorp, uh, Shopping Center buildings. So we can see this water coming up and, and nearing the edge of the, uh, pavement elevation, and we can also see the water on the other side starting to getting, getting closer to that door. And I want to point out that gutter on the roof and the downspout, and there's the termination of the downspout. No undergra- underground drains here. So now if we go to 1707, just simply walking down Antique Drive, we've got somewhat the same situation here, another, another low area. And what has actually happened here is that, um, it appears as though Antique Drive has been resurfaced. It was obviously a service drive for the shopping center originally, still is, but, uh, since that time, it has been resurfaced. Antique Drive is higher than, than the, uh, land that serves the rear of the, uh, uh, shopping center businesses, and their floor is not much higher. So effectively, we've got, we've got a low area, um, between Antique Drive and the businesses. And 1708, please. As we walk further down, we see another depression that is currently filling with water. If we have more water, it will eventually get up and, uh, uh, start getting on to this, uh, access way down to the main part of the shopping center. And, uh, 1709, please. Continuing to walk down, uh, toward Burke Road, this is Antique Drive. The asphalt is elevated. Here's the back of a building in, uh, MetaThorp Shopping Center. There's the water that's pooling. Notice the roof, uh, drains coming out and coming down a downspout, and notice the termination of the downspout, one there, one there. And then the next picture. A little dark, but here is the water elevation of the water. Its elevation hits this drive at about here. There's the downspout. There's the door into the building. And what is coming out of there, but too dark to see is all the roof water. It's coming out of that downspout. So here's the edge of the water. Here's the door. There couldn't be an inch and a half of difference there at the time this picture was taken, and the roof water from the building is exit- exiting out of that downspout. So what's happening is the water from the building themselves are, is pooling immediately in their backyard and running in the back door. Um, if we go to 1716, please. This is that same, uh, curb inlet, not quite as bright, but I'm on Meadowthorpe Avenue now. I'm in front of the duplexes, and there is the storm inlet that we saw before. Um, on this day, and it had been raining most of the afternoon, I could not see any water running into that inlet. Now, at this moment, I don't know where all this large drainage area was going, but there's the inlet. There's obviously a leaf cover. There had not been enough water generated in this curb alongside the road to even wash the leaves down into the pipe. Now, this water here, uh, will, uh, be directed toward this subject site, and it will have to be dealt with. And that's why I've been employed to, um, uh, determine the amount of water that's coming to this site, what's gonna fall on the site itself, and determine that it gets directed away from the, uh, businesses and, uh, Meadowthorpe Shopping Center. Any questions? Thank... Thank you, Mr. Black. We'll get to questions in just a minute. Thank you, sir. Okay. Are there any, um... Now we've come to, we're at the- He wants to finish, yeah. Pardon? Dick, do you have something else? I did want to sum up, but I think that's later on. Well, that's after the, after the opponent. Mr. Layton. Mr. Layton, you n- Bob, you wanna s- sum up your... It's now appropriate, the time for your summation. Thank you. Or clo- closing. And I would also like to make a motion to Madam Clerk... Oh, I'm sorry. I would also make a motion to Madam Clerk to please enter into evidence the digital photographs that I covered during my testimony if that would please be done. Um, and w- one other point on Sir Rebuttal. I am testifying under oath. I saw, directly behind the Goodwill store, I saw the water coming off of this property in that area that showed, right by the stop sign, in that digital photograph. You could see the water coming off of the subject property and crossing Antique Drive. I, I, I... Before we move to closing, I do want to make sure that that is unconditionally known. That is a fact. Uh, that was on December 24th of 2008. Setting aside the politics of the situation, and set aside the fact that in one day, 115 people signed on their opposition to this zoning application. Set aside the policy implications. Set aside the loss of use of residences, the loss of use of businesses to allow a single inappropriate use, and what do you have? You still have the law and the facts. And here the law is that the proposed zone change must be appropriate considering the adjacent properties. Appropriate does not mean that something may be perceived as a bit better than the current zoning under this law. It means simply what the word means, which is appropriate. Because of the noise disruption of the machinery shop to the residences, and because of the catastrophic additional storm water runoff, I believe no facts have been presented that would allow this proposed zone change to be considered appropriate, and I respectfully ask you to please reject the application. You have now seen what we in Meadowthorpe are facing. Not only are we facing machine shop industrial noise that will make residential use of the immediately adjacent property impossible, but we are facing a public safety and business threat from an already severe storm water runoff that starts with a quarter mile of Lexington Street water runoff, which the applicant will make catastrophic with three more acres of blacktop. You have heard how severe the damage has been from the existing level of storm water runoff, and how the anchor store for the shopping center may have to move if this is approved. Our city has struggled for years, spent millions, and even had citizens die as a result of its ongoing storm water runoff problems. It has committed so many resources to solving the storm water runoff dangers, and yet this application brings a huge amount of new impervious surface to an already threatened business area and neighborhood. On behalf of the residents of Meadowthorpe, the businesses of Meadowthorpe Shopping Center, and Lexington's drivers and pedestrians, I ask you for your protection of their wellbeing and safety tonight, and ask you to reject this application, and find that the applicant has not met his burden of proof for the zoning amendment. Thank you very much for your time. I really do appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Layton. Mr. Vice Mayor, just to- Whoops. Yeah. Excuse me. Go ahead, Mr. Murray. I believe it's my time to sum up, correct? Yep, your time to sum up. Um, thank you very much, and the, um, um, I guess what we have tonight, uh, first of all, a zone change is always a comparison. That's all... You have an existing zone and a proposed zone, and you all have to vote for the one that's better for the property and the community. It's always comparing what the existing zoning is with what is proposed by the applicant. That's what all zone change hearings are. Um, today, we have sort of three options, I guess, that have been raised by the neighbors. Number one, as it is today, an open field, or an open area through there, uh, which we are told has severe drainage problems. Now, we don't think there are, because we think a lot of the drainage problems are coming off the large impervious surfaces of Meadowthorpe Shopping Center itself, but let's assume that there are. That does not mean, that th- that is against the existing condition of the land. If we develop it, once it, it is developed, the city engineer has to improve an entire drainage plan for this property before anything can be started on the property. So we have leave it as it is, which the neighbors themselves through their photographs to you have said is not appropriate because it's causing flooding. We're not sure it is, but let's assume it is. Number two, development as B-1. Now even Mr. Layton got up here and said to you, "There's no question but that B-1 is not appropriate for this property." Why is that? I assume, excuse me, I guess I'm not gonna talk very much anymore here, but I guess I assume because the uses on the n- on propo- on B-1 without restrictions, as we discussed, be in restaurants, liquor stores, stores selling retail, whatever's there, auto service stations and that sort of thing, is not appropriate for this property. Leaving the third alternative, which is what we propose, which is development in restricted B-4, and I emphasize the word restricted because we've thrown out over half the uses in B-4. Thank you. Restricted B-4, which will be subject to a full drainage control plan by the engineer, su- the city engineer, our engineer who have... City engineer, of course, will be made aware of everything that's gone on today, and have to approve that before we can start development on this property. So if there's water coming off this property, we'll have to take care of it. We have engaged an engineer who teaches at UK and is a geologist and a hydrologist to take care of this issue. So I think there's no question that of the choices that we have, that the evidence makes it clear that the only one that's appropriate for this property is the one that we're proposing for you. And we have gone through a conscientious seven-month procedure with the Methot Thorpe Neighborhood Association, which voted in favor of this after six meetings we had with them, to approve this and we've done it in a responsible manner, and this property will be developed just as responsibly as we have been with our meetings with the neighborhood, Methot Thorpe Neighborhood Association. And we agreed at the planning commission to give them notice before, when we file our final development plan for this property. I know Mr. Layton has thrown around the number of about 115 people signed a petition, but that petition did not say that we, the applicant, had agreed to 13 conditional zoning restrictions, taking out a lot of these uses, and it did not say that we had agreed to four buffering restrictions, and it did not say that there is a note on the plat of this property saying that before any development can occur, the urban county engineer must approve a storm drainage control plan. That was what was not told to those 115 people who signed the petition. Now, the people who are in the Methot Thorpe Neighbor Association and the development committee did know that, and we made them cognizant of what we were doing in every step of the way of this process. We thank them for the process that we have gone through. The, if Mr. Layton argues that the word more should not be in the findings, I would advocate that on the report, that the, the findings that the planning commission sent to you, that you simply take out the word more and find that the ex- the proposed B-4 zoning is appropriate for the property. Because we believe it is appropriate for the property, we believe not only that, we think it's appropriate to meet infill guidelines. We, we did infill because we didn't want to develop horse farms, to develop all the overlooked lots in this community. Now, it happens that Mr. Osborne has decided to sell this property and it will be developed either in its existing B-1 zone or in the proposed restricted B-4 that we are proposing to you. And we feel, as we said to you, it is much more appropriate for this property, for the Methot Thorpe community and for Lexington as a whole to develop this property in a restricted and responsible B-4 fashion that we have proposed to you. Thank you very much for listening to all the presentations you heard tonight. Thank you. There were some other folks that signed up earlier. Does anyone, uh, else, uh, wish to speak on behalf of the petitioner or the objectors? If not, then what the next, the next on the procedure or our protocol is for questions, comments from the council members. All right? Okay. Floor's open for council member questions. Mr. James. Uh, okay. Good, it's working. Council Member James, then Council Member Blues. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Um, I have several questions and I have who I believe should answer those here, but if it should be another person, you can just, um, steer me in that direction. I'll start with Mr. Salie from planning. What constitutes a temporary drainage easement? What has to happen on a location in order for it to get classified as such? Usually, that is a requirement from the division of engineering about the time a final record plat is recorded, uh, in the county clerk's office. It usually is a condition of the engineering division reviewing the storm water, uh, situation on the property. It often, uh, also anticipates either some future improvement or future construction that may affect, uh, the drainage in a particular area. With this particular property, the temporary easement was created as part of the recording of the plat in the 1980s. Okay. And- ... is it typical that the zone change would occur first, and then engineering would look at, um, what's been called three different things, either a detail water study, a comprehensive drainage study, or comprehensive drainage plan, and then lastly, Mr. Murphy just called it a storm drainage control plan. So is it -- is this a normal ... Is this the way that it's supposed to happen? The zone change happens first, and then there's some kind of plan that's looked at in order for it to move forward? Yes, I believe so. I think the more- Ne- ... detailed engineering studies almost always follow, um, decisions on zoning. Okay. And if this were to be developed as a B-1, um, as Mr. Murphy just stated, the option is for them to either ask for the zone change for a B-4, um, and build it with the conditional uses, or to keep it as B-1 and do all the things that nobody wants to have done on B-1. Would they still have to go through a process of having the plan approved because of that temporary drainage easement? They would not have to have necessarily a development plan approved by the Planning Commission. Uh, that would be required if more than one building were proposed on this 2.8 acres. Okay. Then a development plan would be required to go to the Planning Commission and receive its approval. If instead only one building were proposed on this 2.8 acres, Mr. Murphy's correct, an applicant could go directly to the Division of Building Inspection and seek a building permit for one building on this property. Uh, either way, I believe the storm water would be reviewed, either as part of the development planning process or as part of the building permit process. Okay. And what's the correct- But- ... terminology for this drainage plan? Do you know what that- I do not- ... recording is? ... know the technical term. I'm sorry. Okay. All right. Um, and this may be for Jim Black, I'm not too for sure. This has to do with, um, you mentioned that water... you noticed that no water is going through the ditch that exists there now. Um, or maybe Mr. Murphy needs to answer, I'm not sure, but no water is going through the ditch right now, but you also said that there's no water crossing Antique as far as you know. But if there's no water going through the ditch that you saw or maybe it was, um, yes, property owner, uh, or would-be property owner, is the reason that no ... is it because the water's not going through the ditch potentially that could make it to why it's crossing Antique? Could there be something wrong with the, the way that that ditch or whatever you wanna call it, is built, constructed? Nope. I think what runs in the river- You'll have to come to the mic. ... runs in the river. Just the grass is absorbed, but it doesn't run through it. Yes, sir, but you need to use the microphone. Billy, would you come to the mic please? Thank you, sir. Sure. Sorry. Yup. So we got a- There's no water running through it. I've been out there several times and you know, I don't know if there's supposed to be water running through it. I'm sure in the past there have, but I think as they kept building all the houses and stuff, the water's diverted. It just don't come on the property. Okay. There is a ditch that runs there. How many of the trees will remain on the property? None of the trees are, are alive, you know. There's about probably 25, 30 in a huddle, you know, and all of 'em are damaged, all of 'em are falling down and if I could save one, I would save one, but there's just not one good one there. So Urban Forestry's been out and taken a look and said- And the building would- ... they all need to come down? And the building would cover part of 'em. Yeah. So Urban Forestry has, has come and looked at the trees and marked them as dead? No. No, I haven't had anybody. I just got an estimate of what it'd take to replo- to remove 'em, you know, 'cause they're, they're going everywhere. Okay. Um- A lot of 'em are falling down. ... and Mr. Murphy may want to answer this, but I thought read in something here that it would have to, that Urban Forestry would need to be, um, let's see. It was on, in our, in the recommendations in the Planning Commission packet, um, page nine, um, on number five of item B, it says that the Urban Forester's approval of a tree inventory map- That's true. ... would need to be a part of, um, if the plan should be approved. Are you familiar with the Urban Forester's role? Yes, that was a condition of the certification of the development plan and, uh, the development plan being certified means he has already approved the tree inventory map on the property. Okay. But- Is that, does the inventory... I guess you're saying the existing inventory is, if this is developed, is he, is the own- would-be owner been planning on just tearing down or cutting down all those trees? Uh, some of the trees would have to be removed for the construction. Now, the tree inventory map, you're required to show on these developments the existing tree inventory. That doesn't mean it has to stay there. I think they do that to compare the canopy before and the canopy after. Okay. What we, we agreed to do was to add to the buffer area landscaping along those portions of the north boundary line there where there is no, there is no buffering right now. Mm-hmm. We'll have to add some through there. I think we agreed to do some landscaping down here as well, but here, there's heavy, there's pretty good trees there. Not up there, we'll have to add there. There's some down there. Trees in the middle of the property would have to be removed and the, uh, that was a sign-off requirement, which means the forester has signed off on that. I might add on your question on drainage- Sure. ... the ditch goes parallel to- ... Antique Drive. Right. And which would lead a layperson to believe that if there's water flowing off the back to the front of the property, it would be intercepted by that ditch. It would have to go in the ditch at some point and then the swale is up against Antique Drive. There's two different things. There's a ditch coming through sort of the middle, and then there's a swale along Antique Drive. I think the points that's being made is that- Mm-hmm. ... when Mr. Newton's been out there, and he's been out there a lot of times in the rain. Mm-hmm. I've gone out there in the rain. We've been working on this thing for a year, so- Mm-hmm. ... when it rains, we run out there. Mm-hmm. And Mr. Black's been out there in the rain. We haven't seen water in that ditch for some reason. We don't know why. It's- it takes some of that water from Metathorpe coming down there. It should. Mm-hmm. Um, but the point we're making is that this- this property is not, we don't feel has been generating a lot of water. That may be a immaterial point, because we're going to have to take care of that water anyway. You know, assuming there is some, we'll have to take care of it, so we're not dumping water across Antique Drive- Mm-hmm. ... on the properties next to us. Mm-hmm. One reason we brought up this issue about water, and we had Mr. Black here, is bef- some- it's like, we- we want to point out before any development occurs, that there is an issue in Metathorpe Shopping Center- Mm-hmm. ... with roof drainage coming back in the- in the stores there. We don't know, I c- I'm not going to get up here and tell you there's no water coming off of this property. Right. Nobody can tell you that for sure. Maybe there is, okay? Right. But one thing we know for sure, and wanted to document at this point, that there is problems in Metathorpe Shopping Center with water coming off their own roofs, going down their own downspouts, which come out right next to the buildings and right next to the doors, and as Mr. Black mentioned to you, their elevations for their doors are right next to and below the elevations where the gutters come out. Mm-hmm. There's a lot of roofs out there. Yeah. There's a lot of water coming out there. Yeah. They're getting some of their own. Maybe they're getting some from us too. Yeah. And I don't, I don't, I hate to interrupt you, but I really just want to focus on this- Sorry. ... development site, and not necessarily the shopping center, but maybe the question is not whether this site is producing the water, but whether it's controlling some of the runoff that could occur if there's impervious pavement established on that site. And I think the- the bigger question, and that's why I asked the question about when- when does the drainage control plan need to happen? Because I think the bigger issue is what kind of detention or retention facilities can be constructed on this site that maybe will even improve- Mm-hmm. ... the surrounding drainage. So my question is, will this storm drainage control plan only deal with the existing potential runoff for the existing site in the way that it is now? Or does it actually deal with a- the site being developed and the amount of impervious pavement on the site and how that runoff can be controlled then? Do you, are you familiar with- Yes, ma'am. ... whether it's a before and after kind of thing? Mr. Black, Mr. Black can correct me if I'm wrong here. I want to make sure he's listening to what I say to you, but the- Sure. ... stormwater plan, which we will be required to present to the urban county engineer before we turn a spade of dirt on this property, will be dealing with the impact of our impervious services- Okay. Okay. ... and what that does to the runoff on here. The general legal requirement is that we cannot put any more water off this property than is happening now. Now, I happen to know that the urban county engineer will also require that we don't put water across the road on- onto other people's property as well without detaining it. Okay. We are required to- to plan for our impervious surface to make sure we are not worsening the situation. And Antique, if you look at Antique, it, you know, in- in some areas of my district that would be considered an alleyway almost. What's the property line? Does it go only up to the side of Antique or does it go to the middle of Antique that would be your, um, responsibility? The urban county government acquired all of Antique Drive and the right of way- Mm-hmm. ... in that plat that Mr. Sully mentioned about 10 years ago. Okay. They- they got it from Mr. Osborne. Okay. And so our property line goes up to the edge of right of way, and I'm not sure how many feet off the edge of pavement that is. Okay. There's a row of wooden posts in the ground along our property, if you've been out there. Okay. I presume it was there to stop people from parking on the grass. Okay. And that may be our property line. It's somewhere probably between those wooden posts and the edge of pavement. Okay. We do not own Antique Drive. Okay. What i- what do you plan to do at the edge there? Do you plan to do something that clearly defines, are you gonna do some curbing or something like that that clearly defines that that's your property? Or will you, will it be left as is? It will probably be left as is. Um, just as at my house, there's no delineation between where the right of way is. You just have to cut the grass up to the curb, whether- Mm-hmm. ... where- wherever the right of way starts, which they'll have to do. They'll have to maintain up- probably up to the pavement area on this property. Um, but we'll have to get their drainage plan approved, so we're dealing with that land through the engineer. Okay. And for the shop, for the machine shop and the activities that will go on there, what, you said that they, this company would create, um, the pro- the protectors or the railings for the machine? Is that, how does that go out? Does that go out by truck, by tractor trailer truck? Or how does the material get out of there? They'll put it on a pickup truck. I think Billy may have- A pickup truck? ... one truck larger than a pickup truck, I think. One tractor trailer and a couple of two-tons is what we have now. He says- How big's your tractor trailer? Okay. Is that -- no access issues there as far as you know? No, that road's not restricted right now, as far as I know. Is it one way in? Is it a one-way? No. Okay. Do you know whether the -- the businesses in the Meadow Thorpe use that as their access as well for loading and unloading? They do. Yes. Okay. Um, you don't see any problems or barriers there? Well, we've got, luckily we can go turn right or left out of this property. We have a choice. If somebody at the stores is blocked in one way, we can go the other way. Okay. Okay. Um, let me just make sure. Oh, when this will be built, um, maybe you don't know this, but will the building actually be at a higher elevation than the land right now? Will you build up, um, from the current, the way that it's, um, set right now? Billy says it's higher right now. I'm not sure. We haven't got to the detailed level where we can tell you exactly where elevations will be at that point. We, that's -- we've got to bring our final development plan back to the planning commission. Okay. Then we gotta do construction plans to be submitted to building inspection and the drainage plans of the division of engineering. Okay. Still, that's -- that's the next steps in the process. Okay. Um, and I think my last question, and it's probab- maybe for law, I just wanted to ask if, um, the existing noise ordinance, what are the hours, um, allowable, or does anybody know that, um, for a B-4? Would that help, would that restrict anything as well? Not restrict, but can they go all night working? Or is it 11 o'clock? I'm afraid I am not familiar with the noise ordinance. Um, Bill Salih said he thought the nighttime cutoff was like 11:00 PM. That sounds right. Maybe. Okay. Um, and I think that's all that I have, Vice Mayor, right now. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Councilmember James. Councilmember Blues. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Um, I'd like to -t-t-to start here with just a bit of a review of how the, how the, the, the development review committee and the neighborhood association works. And, and if one of the representatives of the neighborhood association can, can c-c-briefly, uh, uh, briefly summarize how residents are informed in the Meadow Thorpe neighborhood of meetings, and of, uh, uh, committee meetings, and of, and of general meetings. The Meadow Thorpe Neighborhood Association has a monthly newsletter that's delivered to over 600 residences in the neighborhood on a monthly basis. If there is a neighborhood association meeting, it is announced in the newsletter. MDRC meetings, or Meadow Thorpe Development Review meetings, are on an as needed basis. So it is difficult to notify 600 people that there is an MDRC meeting going to be held. However, those meetings are open to the public. They're, uh, not secretive. Anyone in the neighborhood can attend those meetings. Um, and that's basically how we notify our residents of meetings, is through our monthly newsletter that is delivered to over 600 homes. Anything else, Councilmember Blues? Um- Does that answer your question? Do you h- do you ever inform people of meetings by, by email as well as the, as the monthly newsletter? The, when the MDRC meetings are- And- ... going to be scheduled, you know, as I said, spontaneously scheduled, those members are notified, uh, of those meetings. But as far as, are you saying, do I, do we somehow notify the neighborhood association? Well, I just wondered wh- whether there are also, you know, email communications with an email list in the neighborhood. I- No. ... just trying to- No. ... to demonstrate for the- No. Okay. We don't, as far as the MDRC meetings, when they're spontaneously, no we don't send out any type of a communicat- communication asking residents to attend or inviting them to attend. In the case of this situation, we did hand deliver, uh, n- the, the bulletin, I think that's a part of that one handout flyer, inviting residents to come and express their concerns, um, or an- and answer any quest- or ask any questions that they chose to. But as a rule, no, we don't, 'cause normally they're very spontaneous and we meet as needed. Thank you. Appreciate that. Thank you. Mr. Salih, I've got a question for, for you with, with, uh, uh, with reference to the, uh, the requirements for the, the development plan. There's, uh, uh, with reference to number 17, which says, "Discuss the apparent drainage feature at the center of the property." That has been res- revised, as I understand it, uh, to read, resolve. That is correct. In the, in the wake of Mr. Penn's, um, question to that effect in, in, in the minute. So what we're reading here is not really just discuss, but also resolve. That's correct. The, uh, item you're looking at, at page nine of the Planning Commission's minutes, uh, that was a result of the committee reviews of the development plan, which is both the technical committee- ... and a sub-committee of the planning commission and upon the, uh, subdivision committee's review, they recommended that the entire commission, at their public hearing, discuss that particular issue. At the conclusion of the commission's hearing, they did decide to change that to an issue that would be resolved in the future. Yes, sir. Okay, so that becomes a condition that, that the petitioner would have to meet in the, in the making of the plan. Yes, sir. Mr. Murphy, I've, I've got a question for, to you, if you don't mind. W- when, will... Do you plan to consult at, at all with the neighborhood if, if this zone change is approved, do you plan to consult with the neighborhood on the development plan as it goes forward? Yes, sir. We, um, number one, we agreed to notify them when a final development plan is filed, but number two, we agreed to carry on a consultation going back and forth regarding, uh, building materials and things on the building. You're not... I didn't bring our rendering up 'cause you're not allowed to consider it under your rules . But we did, um, we did agree to continue to work with the neighborhood association on design of the building and other issues, so there will be a continuing dialogue between Mr. Newton and the neighborhood association. Okay, thank you very much. I I would add a comment here and that is with reference to, uh, some of the photographs that were, that were, that were shown and particularly with reference to Mr. Black's, uh, photographs of the rear of some of the, of the, of the businesses and as the, as the council member who represents the, um, the district, I have had calls from, from one of those businesses about the problem of the water ponding between Antique Drive and the, and the business. And have had, uh, our stormwater engineers visit, visit the site, and they came to , excuse me, the same conclusion as, as you did, that the, that the drive is higher than the, um, than a kind of recess between the, um, between the edge of the roadway and the, uh, and the rear of the building. And that, at least in that particular case, the, um, the build up of water is caused by the runoff from the roof. Um, I'd further add that we do see a lot of, uh, of water running down Forbes Road and down, down Burke toward, and, and, and into, uh, into Leestown. Um, I have, I have not myself seen any evidence that the, that the water that's, that's, that, in that one, uh, instance of, of the, the photographs that were taken some weeks ago, um, in that, in that heavy rain, that the water came from, in any substantial way, from the, uh, from the subject, from the subject property. I'd also note too that there is a, um, that the road, the, the, the Meadowtorp Avenue where the, where the, where the inlet is that both Mr. Layton's photographs and, and your photographs, Mr. Black, showed. Um, that road slopes down westward toward Burke Road. So it, it is likely that there would be a good deal of , of, of rainwater running down the road rather than into the inlet, although doubtless, um, both, uh, both do occur. And one final, one final question for Mr. Murphy, and that, w- Mr. Layton says that, that a, a, a, that you cannot have, if, if let's say, uh, uh, this issue went to court, that the court cannot give latitude when there is a mistake in law. And that the mistake in law is that you can't say that B-4 would be more appropriate, but that it m- must be appropriate. Could... As a, as an attorney, could you respond to that? Is... Well, then you might want to ask your own attorney that question as well. Yes, I will, yeah. State statute says that the, in this finding, we're going under, the finding is that the existing zoning is not appropriate and the proposed zoning is appropriate. In that regard, I think the safest route would be, would be not to use the word more appropriate, but just state, I think you should state that the proposed B-4 zoning is appropriate. I think it'd just be a couple of wording changes in the findings that the planning commission made. I would advocate that to be the safest route if a person, if you are, as we hope you are, going to approve this zone change to make sure it is not overturned on appeal on a technical reason from that. I know courts shy away from overturning year all's discretionary decisions, which this is, on a technical reason, but at the same time, I'd like not to, there not to be any technical reason even advanced for doing that, so I would ask you if you're gonna approve this just to say that the proposed B-4 zoning is appropriate for this property, because that's been our case to you, that it is appropriate for this property. Okay, thank you. Roche-- Rochelle, would you care to, to follow up on that too? Yeah. I concur. I mean, I think this is just, um, a wording issue that really the planning commission didn't realize that it raised an issue. I mean, I think based on their hearing, um, they recommended approval of this because they felt that the proposed zoning was appropriate. So, I think that if you choose to, um, grant the zone change and, um, um, agree with the planning commission's recommendation, we would propose just simply taking that, uh, reason number one and reword it slightly to say, "The restricted wholesale and warehouse business zone requested by the applicant is appropriate, and unrestricted neighborhood business B1 zone is no longer appropriate at this location for the following reasons." I mean, it already stated that the B1 that's there is not appropriate and I think when they said that the proposed zoning is more appropriate, I think they meant that it was appropriate, um, under the circumstances of this piece of property. I think the wording just could be more clear and, and to change that, if you choose to adopt these findings, we would recommend that change when you adopt them. Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Blues. Council Member Figel, then Council Member Stennet. No one else is, is, uh, queued up. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Um, I, I kinda see this as two different issues. Um, first of all, uh, it's ob- there's obviously a storm water issue here, which is of concern. Uh, and then I think there's an- another issue of the highest and best use of the property. Um, regarding the storm water, I'd like to ask Mr. Salih, um, to respond to this. If in fact this development goes forward, will there be enough, um, done on the property in terms of addressing the storm water there that will, could possibly improve the, uh, the storm water drainage for the entire area, that, that commercial area? That is a difficult question, only I think because Antique Drive has no curbing and no gutter. Um, it is, uh, basically asphalt, uh, in its entirety. I think some of the photos you've seen tonight, uh, it's hard to imagine how that water might go from the south side of Antique to the north side, where the two new basins are proposed on the subject property without going under the road. The feasibility of getting that water under the road, um, is certainly a question in my mind in responding to your, to your inquiry. But you are fairly certain then that the retention basins that, that you're proposing will handle all the runoff from this, this site, from the project site? From my experience, yes. I think the basins will need to be sized, uh, in order to account for the fact that the entire subject property is almost entirely impervi- uh, not impervious currently and will have an acre, acre and a half of new impervious surface. So yes, I think those basins will need to accommodate that. Okay. And the impervious surface now, I, I'm assuming this is asphalt, uh, is this actually going to cover the entire area except for the four-foot landscaped areas? No, and perhaps it might be best to answer your question referring to the development plan. Again, this is a preliminary development plan, but besides the two basins, there will be other open space areas under this plan along the frontage of Antique Drive here, and between the two buildings in what I'll call the corner of the subject property. So if this property is 2.8 acres, uh, approximately an acre and a half is proposed to have either building or parking lot associated with the development. Okay. Um, and one other question. If, uh, something unanticipated, say for instance the, after the storm water plan is completed and all the recommendations have been made, um, that the, uh, owner decides not to move forward with the project for some reason, the zoning is going to remain, the zoning change that we do tonight will remain with that property. Will all the restrictions remain with the property as well? If the council rezones, uh, the property this evening as recommended by the planning commission, yes, the conditions will run with the land and not with the owner. Uh, by the same token, the development plan will remain in effect if the rezoning is granted. So any future development of the property that may be different from this would be required to be reviewed by the planning commission in terms of a changed development plan. Okay. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Oh, I, excuse me, I had one other question. Um, in terms of the use of the property, um, I think you mentioned that there would be trucks, could possibly be trucks coming in there in the evening to load up supplies. Are we talking about just regular pickup trucks or are we talking about huge, oversized vehicles? Um, might ask the applicant to respond to that. I'm not familiar with the types of trucks that are expected. It said a 45-foot tractor trailer. It's mostly pickups and one-ton. Yet, we have a tractor and trailer that we haul our forklifts in and out. It may come in, like, once a day. Now it hasn't moved in two weeks. I wish it would move every day, but unfortunately for the workmen, it, it doesn't move very often though, but we do have to haul them in and out. Well, I'm just trying to, uh, anticipate what might, uh, be happening, you know, in the middle of the night if you have an emergency. It won't be a, it won't be a traffic jam, and even, even at night- ... if we work normal, there's not a couple of people there. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Stinnett. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Just a couple of quick, uh, wrap up questions. Uh, Bill, did your staff consult, um, anyone from stormwater and engineering, uh, on the stormwater issue on this property prior to your staff recommending approval? Yes. I'm pretty certain that our staff contacted, uh, and talked with the new development section of engineering in reviewing this plan. And when they contacted them, um, does a current stormwater issue exist whether this is a B-1 or B-4 zone regardless of what's placed there? In other words, regardless of the zone, we still have a stormwater issue there? I think that's true. Yes, sir. Okay. And then, uh, Rochelle, just, just to clarify for this body, I've sat through many, many, many of these zone changes and it seems like we always still allow the development plan to come into our decision-making. But from a legal perspective, is this body allowed to use a development plan, what's presented, um, by the petitioner in regards to that development plan to make our final decision, or are we only considering the zone and the uses of that zone with this decision tonight? Uh, in essence, the approval or disapproval of a development plan lies strictly within the purview of the planning commission. That is not something that under the statutes in Chapter 100 fall in any way under the authority of the council. So, you are correct that what you are looking at tonight is the appropriateness or inappropriateness of the proposed zone change. Because in essence ultimately the planning commission and, and which they have done so very often, changes a different type of use ultimately for the property, even after we rezone it. We see a nice colorful plan here, the property ends up totally different from what, what's presented at, uh, the hearing. So, you know, I still question, and I will every planning or every zone change, why we're still allowing, you know, the development plans to be shown to us. If we can't consider them, then, then they don't need to be in the room because honestly we're talking about a use. And, uh, nice business, seems like it, it, it could be a good fit possibly, but there's no say from this body that that business will go there. It could totally change a- a- after tonight, so... I, I think that's correct, and I think that in fact you may actually be getting to the crux of the matter of why urban county governments are the only form of local government that can impose conditional zoning. And I think that may be an attempt to grant the council, um, as well as the planning commission, the ability to impose restrictions that go with the zone change. And even if that development plan is changed subsequently by the, the planning commission upon, um, um, future applications, the fact is, the zoning restrictions that you impose under conditional zoning will remain to restrict what can be done on the property. And, and whether or not we z- we keep this B-1 or B-4 does not fix the current stormwater problem in the area, which is a whole nother issue outside of tonight's discussion. Th- but the last thing we want to do is change the zone that would allow more intensive use that would make the stormwater situation worse in that area. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Thank you, Mr. Stinnett. Uh, Mr. Blues, you're showing up next, but since you've already spoken, would you please let Mr. Beard speak? I'd be happy to defer to Council Member Beard. Oh, great. And then- Then you can come right back to- ... perhaps you could get back to me. Yes, sir. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Thank you, Council Member Blues. Uh, Mr. Murphy, for a second if you would. There are two documents here, one pink and one white. One shows all the principal uses and one shows a staff exhibit that carves that down to, uh, just a few principal uses there for this subject property. Um, the principal use of this property is gonna be for a machine shop. Is that the designation? The, the actual designation is not machine shop, it's shop of special trade, uh, but it's been, I know the opponents have referred to it as a machine shop as well. Well, I mean, my, my question is when you look at, at what was stricken, um, it, it looks to me like a machine shop is fairly benign compared to, uh, to some of the other, uh, uh, things that were, that were stricken. Pawn shops, for instance. They're very noisy. Um, and I guess the other question is if it's a category of machine shops, all machine shops are exactly the same amount of loudness for the same duration of time? Is that an assumption that- I would, I would have to say machine shops are different. Well, I would, I would think so. I just wanted to be, uh, be sure that everybody was on the same page about that. Um, and, uh, I guess that's all I need. Thank you very much. Mr. Blues. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Uh, for those of you who may not be entirely familiar with this process, uh, at the, at the, uh, at the end of a hearing, uh, w- w- we have to make two, two decisions. And the first decision is whether to accept the findings of, of the, of the planning commission or to replace them with, with other findings. And the second decision we have to make then is on the ordinance itself that the clerk read to, uh, to open this special meeting of the, uh, uh, of the council. That said, um, Vice Mayor, I move to accept the findings of the Planning Commission as stated on the, uh, on the report out document, uh, with- with- with the, uh, uh, revisions on number one, as- as suggested by, uh, uh, by Rochelle. I can't remember the exact wording, Rochelle, maybe you could refresh that, but that's how I would like to, uh, set the motion. Second. There's a motion and a second. Uh, do we need to clarify, Rochelle? I can read that for you again, if you would like. Um, the revised, um, uh, number one reason would read, "The restricted wholesale and warehouse business B-4 zone requested by the applicant is appropriate. An unrestricted neighborhood business B-1 zone is no longer appropriate at this location for the following reasons." And the balance would remain unchanged. All right. Is there any discussion on this? Um, I'm s- We have to do a roll call. Yes. Can she repeat that? I'm sorry, or can someone repeat it? Yeah. We're gonna try to put 'em on the overhead and see if it's, if you can read it. Okay. Thank you. However you wanna do it. I don't think... I don't know about anybody else, but I can't read. Okay. That, is that adequate? Council Member James? Um, yes, but I do have a question. If we're... If you're not using a comparison of more and things like that, why would you even have to put the whole reference of B-1 in there? If you're removing all of the comparative language, why would you have to keep the language to which you were originally comparing? We are not deleting all the comparative language. By statute, to authorize a zone change, which is not in agreement with the comp plan... And this one had originally contemplated B-1 under the comp plan. You have to be able to find that the current zoning is inappropriate and the proposed zoning is appropriate. Okay. Thank you. Okay. If there's any further discussion? Shall we do a roll call vote on this? All right. Do... Was this the... So we're adopting the findings of fact. The motion is to adopt the finding of facts, findings of fact of the Planning Commission. All right. So if we vote yes on this, help us- Are you voting? Help us, Susan. If we vote yes on this, then we are voting to adopt the findings of the Planning Commission. All right. With the adjustments that were just... All right. So are we ready for the vote? All right. Susan, will you call the roll, please? Mr. Blues. Yes. Ms. Crosby. Yes. Mr. Ellinger. Yes. Ms. Feigel. Yes. Mr. Gray. Yes. Ms. James. Yes. Ms. Lawless. Yes. Mr. McCord. Yes. Mr. Stennett. Yes. Mr. Beard. Ah. Thank you. Go ahead and, go ahead and eat it. Okay. Motion. So the motion carries. All right. Now we'd need to vote on the ordinance. Do you need to read it? Nope. All right. Just roll call. Are we ready for, uh, Council Member Blues? Susan, do you need a motion on that? Okay. I thought so. Thank you, sir. I move to adopt the motion as read by the clerk at the beginning of the meeting. So moved. There's a motion by Council Member Blues, second by, uh, Council Member Ellinger. Uh, is there any discussion? Hearing none. Take the roll. Clerk, please. Mr. Blues. Yes. Ms. Crosby. Yes. Mr. Ellinger. Yes. Ms. Feigal. Yes. Mr. Gray. Yes. Miss h- Oh, I'm sorry. Ms. James. Yes. Ms. Lawless. Yes. Mr. McCord. Yes. Mr. Stennett. Yes. And Mr. Beard. Ah. All right. The motion carries. Is there any further- Motion to adjourn. Uh, there's a motion to... Thank you all very much for being here tonight. Um, we have a motion to adjourn and a second. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. All opposed, no. We are adjourned. Thank you.