# Board of Adjustment Meeting - June 27, 2008 > Auto-transcribed civic record · June 27, 2008 - **Permalink**: https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/meeting/892 - **Source video**: https://lfucg.granicus.com/player/clip/892?view_id=14&redirect=true - **Date**: 2008-06-27 - **Last revised**: July 17, 2026 - **Length**: 7,672 words > ⚠️ **Auto-generated content.** Audio from the official Granicus video was auto-transcribed with OpenAI's open-source Whisper large-v3-turbo model, run locally by The Lexington Times. Structured facts were extracted with GPT-4o; the narrative summary was written by Anthropic Claude. Verbatim wording may contain errors. See [methodology](https://meetings.lexingtonky.news/about/methodology) or [report a correction](mailto:editor@lexingtonky.news). --- ## Meeting Overview The Board of Adjustment met on June 27, 2008, at 1:00 p.m. in the Council Chambers at 200 East Main Street in Lexington, Kentucky. Chairman Mike Owens presided over the meeting, which addressed 12 agenda items involving variances and conditional use permits for various properties throughout the city. The board took 13 votes during the session and heard 2 public comments. Of the 12 cases presented, the board approved 6 requests, postponed 4 cases, and withdrew 1 case. Approved items included a variance for Lucas Hill and Frances Ann Thomas to reduce side yard setback from 10 feet to 5 feet on Wilderness Road; a conditional use permit for Ronald F. Adams to operate a gunsmith home occupation on Severn Way; a conditional use permit for American Avenue Baptist Church to expand parking on Todds Road; a conditional use permit for Brian Yon to construct an open-sided pavilion on Bracel Road; a conditional use permit for First Federal Bank to operate a drive-through facility on Lee's Town Center Way; a conditional use permit for Palumbo Properties to operate a self-service car wash on Lane Allen Road; and a conditional use permit for Keeneland Association to amend a parking plan on Rice Road. Cases that were postponed included requests from William T. Burke for a front yard setback variance on Providence Lane, Kentucky Easter Seal Society for a hospital addition and parking garage on Versailles Road, CarMax Auto Superstores for interior landscaping variance on Richmond Road, and Worldwide Church of God for increased sanctuary seating on Regency Road. The Pull-A-Part conditional use permit application for an auto salvage yard on Old Frankfort Pike was withdrawn. ## Attendance **Present:** Mike Owens, Carolyn Edwards, Barry Stumbo, Louis Stout, James Griggs, Joanne Bell, Jim Hume, Barry Brock, Jim Gallimore, Rochelle Boland, Jim Marx, Bill Sallee, Barbara Rackers, Wanda Howard, Richard Murphy, Nathan Billings, Bruce Simpson, Rena Wiseman, Jihad Hallany, Tom Blues, Ronald F. Adams, Kevin Warner, Jason Banks, Danny Harp, and Mr. Pike. **Absent:** Kathryn Moore. ## Votes and Decisions **Approval of Minutes** [timestamp: 00:09:54] Motion by Barry Stumbo, seconded by Joanne Bell. The minutes from August 31, 2007 and October 26, 2007 were approved unanimously with all six members voting in favor: Mike Owens, Carolyn Edwards, Barry Stumbo, Louis Stout, James Griggs, and Joanne Bell. **V-2008-66: William T. Burke Variance Appeal** [timestamp: 00:11:08] Motion by Carolyn Edwards, seconded by Louis Stout. Postponement of William T. Burke's variance appeal to reduce front yard setback from 30' to 15' on Providence Lane was approved unanimously. **CV-2008-51: Kentucky Easter Seal Society Appeals** [timestamp: 00:12:13] Motion by James Griggs, seconded by Barry Stumbo. Postponement of Kentucky Easter Seal Society's conditional use and variance appeals for hospital addition and parking garage on Versailles Road was approved unanimously. **V-2008-67: CarMax Auto Superstores Variance** [timestamp: 00:13:14] Motion by Louis Stout, seconded by Joanne Bell. Postponement of CarMax Auto Superstores' variance appeal to reduce interior landscaping from 4,905 sq ft to 1,860 sq ft on Richmond Road was approved unanimously. **C-2008-33: Pull-A-Part Withdrawal** [timestamp: 00:23:08] Motion by Louis Stout, seconded by Carolyn Edwards. Acceptance of Pull-A-Part's withdrawal of conditional use permit appeal for auto salvage yard on Old Frankfort Pike was approved unanimously. **V-2008-65: Lucas Hill and Frances Ann Thomas Variance** [timestamp: 00:27:27] Motion by Joanne Bell, seconded by Barry Stumbo. Approval of variance to reduce side yard from 10' to 5' on Wilderness Road was approved unanimously. Conditions include completion in accordance with submitted plans for single family residential use only, and obtaining all necessary permits from the Division of Building Inspection prior to construction. **C-2008-57: Worldwide Church of God Appeal** [timestamp: 00:28:32] Motion by Carolyn Edwards, seconded by James Griggs. Postponement of Worldwide Church of God's conditional use appeal to increase sanctuary seating in R-4 zone on Regency Road was approved unanimously. **C-2008-58: Ronald F. Adams Gunsmith Home Occupation** [timestamp: 00:38:03] Motion by Louis Stout, seconded by Barry Stumbo. Approval of conditional use permit for gunsmith home occupation on Severn Way was approved unanimously with multiple conditions including firearm storage requirements, no advertising, no testing or sales on-site, and a maximum of 10 non-owned firearms stored at any time. **C-2008-60: American Avenue Baptist Church Parking Expansion** [timestamp: 00:40:40] Motion by Barry Stumbo, seconded by Carolyn Edwards. Approval of conditional use permit to expand parking lot on Todds Road was approved unanimously with conditions including compliance with Division of Traffic Engineering and Division of Engineering requirements, and implementation of a storm water management plan. **C-2008-61: Brian Yon Pavilion** [timestamp: 00:42:50] Motion by Barry Stumbo, seconded by James Griggs. Approval of conditional use permit to construct a 36x60 open-sided pavilion on Bracel Road was approved unanimously with conditions including obtaining necessary permits and limiting pavilion square footage to allowable expansion not exceeding 5,600 sq ft. **C-2008-62: First Federal Bank Drive-Through** [timestamp: 00:45:00] Motion by Barry Stumbo, seconded by James Griggs. Approval of conditional use permit for drive-through facility on Lee's Town Center Way was approved unanimously with conditions including compliance with Division of Engineering review and approval. **C-2008-63: Palumbo Properties Self-Service Car Wash** [timestamp: 00:58:08] Motion by Barry Stumbo, seconded by James Griggs. Approval of conditional use permit for self-service car wash on Lane Allen Road was approved unanimously with conditions including water recycling requirements, prohibition of commercial vehicles, and environmental compliance. **C-2008-64: Keeneland Association Parking Plan Amendment** [timestamp: 01:00:54] Motion by Louis Stout, seconded by Carolyn Edwards. Approval of conditional use permit to amend previously approved parking plan on Rice Road passed with 4 votes in favor (Carolyn Edwards, Barry Stumbo, Louis Stout, James Griggs) and 2 abstentions (Mike Owens, Joanne Bell). ## Public Comment Two public comments were made during the meeting. **Continuing Education and Legal Updates** [timestamp: 01:04:45] Mike Owens suggested that the board review the 2008 Law Review, specifically recommending attention to the case *Nassar Jewelers, Inc. v. City of Concord, New Hampshire*. He indicated that this case may be relevant to future billboard cases and zoning trends. **Recognition of Service** [timestamp: 01:05:49] Mike Owens expressed gratitude for Joanne Bell's eight years of service on the Board. He highlighted her contributions to stormwater management and noted her role in improving community understanding of related issues. ## Contested Items The June 27, 2008 meeting included two items where the Board engaged in substantive debate before reaching resolution. **Legal Standing of Pull-A-Part's Application** The Board debated a procedural question regarding Pull-A-Part's application: whether to accept a withdrawal or deny the application based on the applicant's lack of legal right to the property following lease termination. This dispute centered on the proper course of action when an applicant's legal standing to proceed became questionable. The applicant ultimately withdrew the application, resolving the procedural dispute without requiring the Board to rule on the standing question itself. **Firearm Storage Conditions for Home Occupation** The Board experienced a split vote regarding conditions for a home occupation involving firearm storage. The central disagreement concerned whether a proposed 10-firearm limit would apply to the applicant's personal collection or only to firearms not owned by the applicant. After debate, the Board adopted a revised condition that limited only non-owned firearms, thereby excluding the applicant's personal collection from the numerical restriction. This compromise resolution addressed the Board's concerns about firearm storage while clarifying the scope of the limitation. ## William T. Burke - Variance to reduce front yard setback from 30' to 15' on Providence Lane **Case Number:** V-2008-66 **Overview** This agenda item concerned a variance request by William T. Burke to reduce the front yard setback requirement from 30 feet to 15 feet on a property on Providence Lane. [timestamp: 00:11:08] **Discussion and Action** Richard Murphy, representing the applicant, requested a one-month postponement of the variance hearing. The postponement was requested due to the client's recent surgery. No opposition to the postponement was raised during the meeting. **Outcome** The Board unanimously voted to postpone the appeal. The variance request has been rescheduled for consideration at the July 25 meeting. ## Kentucky Easter Seal Society - Conditional use and variance for hospital addition and parking garage on Versailles Road [timestamp: 00:12:13] The Board considered agenda item CV-2008-51 regarding a conditional use and variance request from the Kentucky Easter Seal Society for a hospital addition and parking garage on Versailles Road. Nathan Billings presented on behalf of the applicant and requested a 30-day postponement of the matter. The postponement was sought to allow additional time to address site plan and access issues related to the proposed project. No opposition to the postponement request was raised during the meeting. The Board voted unanimously to grant the postponement. The appeal was rescheduled for consideration at the July 25 meeting, providing the applicant with the requested time to resolve the outstanding site plan and access concerns. ## CarMax Auto Superstores - Variance to reduce interior landscaping on Richmond Road **Identifier:** V-2008-67 [timestamp: 00:13:14] The Board considered a variance request from CarMax Auto Superstores to reduce interior landscaping requirements on Richmond Road. Rena Wiseman presented the matter on behalf of the applicant. The applicant requested a one-month postponement of the variance consideration. No opposition to the postponement was raised by the Board or public. The Board unanimously voted to postpone the appeal to the July 25 meeting. ## Pull-A-Part - Conditional use permit for auto salvage yard on Old Frankfort Pike **Case Number:** C-2008-33 **Overview** The Board considered a conditional use permit application for an auto salvage yard on Old Frankfort Pike. [timestamp: 00:13:45] **Key Participants** The discussion involved Jihad Hallany, Richard Murphy, and Tom Blues. **Proceedings** The applicant requested indefinite postponement of the matter. During the Board's review, a question of legal standing arose related to a lease termination. Following discussion of this issue, the applicant withdrew the appeal. **Outcome** The Board accepted the applicant's withdrawal of the appeal. The conditional use permit application was not approved. ## Lucas Hill and Frances Ann Thomas - Variance to reduce side yard from 10' to 5' **Case Number:** V-2008-65 **Location:** Wilderness Road **Overview:** The Board considered a variance request from Lucas Hill and Frances Ann Thomas to reduce the required side yard setback from 10 feet to 5 feet on their property on Wilderness Road. [timestamp: 00:26:18] **Presentation and Discussion:** Frances Ann Thomas presented the variance request to the Board. Staff recommended approval of the variance, citing the small size of the proposed addition and special foundation circumstances affecting the property as justification for the reduced setback requirement. **Outcome:** The Board unanimously approved the variance request. The approval included two conditions imposed by the Board. ## Worldwide Church of God - Conditional use to increase sanctuary seating on Regency Road [timestamp: 00:27:59] The Board considered a conditional use request from Worldwide Church of God to increase sanctuary seating on Regency Road. Staff recommended postponement of the item due to several unresolved concerns. **Key Issues Identified** Staff raised three primary concerns with the proposal: - Off-site parking distance and adequacy - Pedestrian access to the facility - Occupancy load considerations **Outcome** The Board unanimously voted to postpone the item to July 25, 2008, allowing additional time to address the identified concerns before proceeding with the conditional use review. ## Ronald F. Adams - Conditional use for gunsmith home occupation on Severn Way **Case Number:** C-2008-58 **Outcome:** Approved with conditions Staff recommended approval of a conditional use permit for Ronald F. Adams to operate a gunsmith home occupation on Severn Way, subject to 12 conditions. [timestamp: 00:29:06] The applicant owns over 25 firearms as part of his gunsmith business operations. During the Board's review, discussion focused on security and storage requirements for firearms maintained at the residence. **Key Participants:** - Ronald F. Adams (applicant) - Jim Marx - Rochelle Boland - Carolyn Edwards - Louis Stout - Jim Hume Following discussion of security and storage protocols, the Board approved the conditional use permit with a modification to the staff-recommended conditions. The Board revised one condition to limit the number of non-owned firearms stored at the residence to a maximum of 10, addressing concerns about firearm inventory and security at the home occupation site. ## American Avenue Baptist Church - Conditional use to expand parking lot on Todds Road **Case Number:** C-2008-60 **Presentation and Recommendation** Staff presented a conditional use request for American Avenue Baptist Church to expand its parking lot on Todds Road. Kevin Warner addressed the Board regarding this proposal [timestamp: 00:39:37]. Staff recommended approval of the conditional use with five conditions attached to the project. **Board Action** No objections were raised during the discussion. The Board unanimously approved the conditional use request. **Conditions of Approval** The approval included five conditions related to: - Design requirements - Permit obligations - Stormwater management ## Brian Yon - Conditional use to construct open-sided pavilion on Bracel Road [timestamp: 00:41:10] **Agenda Item:** C-2008-61 **Presentation and Recommendation** Staff presented a conditional use application for Brian Young to construct an open-sided pavilion on Bracel Road. The staff recommendation was for approval, subject to three conditions. **Applicant Response** The applicant, Brian Young, confirmed his compliance with the conditions imposed by staff. **Board Action** The Board unanimously approved the conditional use permit for the construction of the open-sided pavilion on Bracel Road. ## First Federal Bank - Conditional use for drive-through facility on Lee's Town Center Way [timestamp: 00:43:51] **Presentation and Recommendation** Staff presented a conditional use application for First Federal Bank to operate a drive-through facility on Lee's Town Center Way. The staff recommendation was for approval, contingent upon three conditions. **Applicant Response** Jason Banks, representing the applicant, confirmed that First Federal Bank would comply with all three conditions imposed by staff. **Board Action** The Board unanimously approved the conditional use permit for the drive-through facility. ## Palumbo Properties - Conditional use for self-service car wash on Lane Allen Road [timestamp: 00:45:41] The Board considered a conditional use application from Palumbo Properties for a self-service car wash facility on Lane Allen Road. **Staff Recommendation and Conditions** Staff recommended approval of the conditional use with revised conditions addressing water recycling and vehicle size requirements. The applicant agreed to the revised conditions presented by staff. **Key Participants** Dick Murphy and Danny Harp were the primary speakers during discussion of this agenda item. **Board Action** The Board unanimously approved the conditional use application for Palumbo Properties' self-service car wash on Lane Allen Road. ## Keeneland Association - Conditional use to amend parking plan on Rice Road **Case Number:** C-2008-64 **Overview** The Board considered a conditional use request from Keeneland Association to amend a parking plan on Rice Road. [timestamp: 00:59:50] **Staff Recommendation and Applicant Position** Staff recommended approval of the conditional use with five conditions. The applicant agreed to the conditions presented by staff. **Board Action** The Board approved the conditional use request with a vote of 4-0, with two abstentions. **Key Speakers** - Ms. Wiseman --- ## Decisions - **Motion** — passed: Approval of minutes from August 31, 2007 and October 26, 2007 - **V-2008-66** — postponed: Postponement of William T. Burke's variance appeal to reduce front yard setback from 30’ to 15’ on Providence Lane - **CV-2008-51** — postponed: Postponement of Kentucky Easter Seal Society's conditional use and variance appeals for hospital addition and parking garage on Versailles Road - **V-2008-67** — postponed: Postponement of CarMax Auto Superstores' variance appeal to reduce interior landscaping from 4,905 sq ft to 1,860 sq ft on Richmond Road - **C-2008-33** — withdrawn: Acceptance of Pull-A-Part's withdrawal of conditional use permit appeal for auto salvage yard on Old Frankfort Pike - **V-2008-65** — passed: Approval of Lucas Hill and Frances Ann Thomas' variance to reduce side yard from 10’ to 5’ on Wilderness Road - **C-2008-57** — postponed: Postponement of Worldwide Church of God's conditional use appeal to increase sanctuary seating in R-4 zone on Regency Road - **C-2008-58** — passed: Approval of Ronald F. Adams' conditional use permit for gunsmith home occupation on Severn Way with revised condition on firearm storage - **C-2008-60** — passed: Approval of American Avenue Baptist Church's conditional use permit to expand parking lot on Todds Road - **C-2008-61** — passed: Approval of Brian Yon's conditional use permit to construct a 36x60 open-sided pavilion on Bracel Road - **C-2008-62** — passed: Approval of First Federal Bank's conditional use permit for drive-through facility on Lee's Town Center Way - **C-2008-63** — passed: Approval of Palumbo Properties' conditional use permit for self-service car wash on Lane Allen Road with revised conditions on water recycling and vehicle size - **C-2008-64** — passed (4-0): Approval of Keeneland Association's conditional use permit to amend previously approved parking plan on Rice Road --- ## Full transcript Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. guitar solo guitar solo Thank you. guitar solo guitar solo I'm going to go ahead and put it in the middle of the middle. I'm going to go ahead and put it in the middle. I'm going to go ahead and put it in the middle. Thank you. Thank you. I'm sorry. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We're just going for June 27th, 2008 to order and we'll get started here. First item of business, we do have some minutes that I believe everyone has received that we need approval on. So I'll entertain motions if you all are ready. Mr. Chairman, I move that we approve the minutes of October 26, 2007. And August 31, 2007. Okay. Motion has been made and seconded for approval of the minutes from August 31, 2007 and October 26, 2007. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. Next, we will sound the agenda and start with asking for any postponements or withdrawals from today's agenda. Yes, sir. Mr. Chairman, I'm Dick Murphy on page 2, item 2, V-2008-66, William T. Burke. I'm requesting a one-month postponement. My client had surgery this week and is unable to be here. I've talked to the neighbors on that who are aware of my request. Okay, good. You're shaking your head. Anyone else here that is in regards to this case that may oppose a postponement for 30 days? No. Okay. If not, I'll entertain a motion for postponement. Move to postpone. Motion has been made and seconded for postponement of V2008-66, Mr. William T. Burke. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. Thank you. I'm sorry, that would be until July 25, 2008. Okay. Any other postponements? Good afternoon. Case number 2008-51. My name is Nathan Billings. I'm here for Bruce Simpson on behalf of the applicant. We did ask for a one-month postponement. I think we've talked to the Hodges who and their counsel here today. They're in agreement for the one-month postponement. Okay. And I'm sorry, what is your name, sir? Nathan Billings. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Billings. Anyone else present today in regards to this that may object to a 30-day postponement? No. If not, I'll entertain a motion for postponement until July 25, 2008. Mr. Chair, I move we postpone 2008-51 to July 25. Second. Thank you. Motion has been made and seconded for postponement of CV 2008-51. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Thank you. Motion passes. Thank you, sir. Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman of the Board. I'm Rena Wiseman. I have an item on page two, number three, CarMax Auto Superstores. We would request a one-month postponement until July 25th. CarMax. Bottom of page, excuse me, bottom of page two, item three. One second, Ms. Wiseman. Okay. Anyone else present today that would be in objection to a 30-day postponement? No. If not, I'll entertain a motion. Motion has been made and seconded for postponement of V2008-67 until July 25, 2008. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. Thank you, Ms. Wiseman. Thank you. Any other requests for postponement or withdrawals? Hello. Yes, sir. Mr. Chairman, my name is Jihad Hallani. On page 4, item number 2, 2008-33, pull apart, we would like to request indefinite postponement on this project. Okay. Anyone present that would be in objection to that? Yes, sir, Mr. Murphy. Mr. Chairman, I represent the Townley Park Neighborhood Association, and this was postponed from April meeting. And we've been discussing this with the city in the past. City tells us that the lease has been terminated and the applicant no longer has the right to possession. And therefore, as you know, to apply, you have to have owner's permission to apply. no longer have the owner's permission and therefore we think there's no longer a valid application to be pending before the board. I do have a copy of the letter from the Commissioner of Law which was sent to them where he says that the lease is terminated and MMA management, which is the pull-apart company, is no longer entitled to possession of the premises. So I guess we'd request that the item simply be removed because there's no longer a valid application for you all to consider. And maybe I need to pass out copies of this letter here. In response to that, Mr. Chairman, I think Mr. Murphy is correct about that. And my client still think he may be able to inquire some lease with the city. And this is why we are requesting an indefinite postponement on this matter. When we started the process over here, we were under a lease with the city and we met with different agencies. Actually, we met with the state, solid waste at the state. We met with the traffic. We met with different agencies at the city level here. And to try to work out the problem with the access to the property as well as the neighbors. And my client was very surprised to see this letter. and he thinks he may be able to work it out still with the city. So we believe that this is why we're requesting an indefinite postponement, trying to see if we can resolve these issues so we can come back or to then at that time we request to be withdrawn totally if we think it's not going to be feasible to have a lease with the city at that time. Can I ask a legal question? Yes. Yes. Is it necessary for us to grant the postponement since they do not have any ownership or legal rights to this particular property at this time? I think because this is a pending application, the Board will have to take some action. They will have to either postpone it, hear it, or I think there could be a motion to deny the application based strictly on a finding that the property owner has withdrawn authorization for this applicant to act on behalf of this property. What's that mean? Does that mean that they can also reapply for the same? Well, I think that if your grounds for denial are the fact that the lease is no longer in effect and he has no legal right to the property, I think that if he were subsequently to renegotiate a lease and have authority of the owner, I think he could come in and ask this board for an early rehearing, and this board could determine there had been a sufficient change in circumstances to allow an early rehearing. Alternatively, if the board did not make the determination on the early rehearing, then he would be subject to that delay period. It's either six months or a year upon denial. And you're asking for what, sir? Indefinite postponement. What would be the downside to an indefinite postponement while they resolve their issues with the city? I don't think anything. I think the problem I have is that that sets a situation where someone can come in without any authority to act on behalf of a property owner, make an application, and then indefinitely postpone it while he tried to work on getting the right to do something with that property. I mean, I just don't think that we can hear an application from someone who simply has no legal right whatsoever to use that property. And at this point, that's the situation. Well, I might have misunderstood. I thought they had a lease with this property, and the lease has been withdrawn by the city, but they're disputing the withdrawing of it? No, I think they're trying to renegotiate a new lease. So do they not dispute that the old lease is gone? Well, not that I've heard. And even if that were the case, again, I think that if they were successful in showing that the lease should not have been terminated, that could be a change of circumstance that would allow them to come back in. Well, that would be okay then. I just wouldn't want to see them penalized for something that they hadn't had control of and might not be in their favor illegally. Right. And I think that all of these things can be factors in your determination to accept a new application and allow an early reapplication. But I just don't think that we can be put in the position of trying to interpret legal rights, and right now as things stand, there just simply is no legal right of access to the property. Ms. Bowlin, would a withdrawal at this time be appropriate from the applicant? I believe with the withdrawal there's still a delay time, but it's probably a shorter, I think there's a shorter delay time when there's a withdrawal than when there's an actual denial. That's right. It's six months. An actual denial would create a one-year delay. Okay. So, you know, I mean, with only six months, if they do six months from now, seven months from now, manage to renegotiate a lease, they wouldn't even need the Board's permission for an early application because within six months they would be able to apply again if they withdraw. I think, Mr. Chairman, if the Board is more comfortable with withdrawing this project for six months, I think my client will be more favorable for withdrawals and everybody will feel much better ground on it. Mr. Chairman, I would move that we grant that. My understanding is that I thought they are disputing this matter, so that's why I said they are disputing. This is the information that get to me. But if the board feel much better to withdraw the project, I mean, that's fine too. grant that we grant them the withdrawal. Okay. Not yet. Mr. Murphy? Mr. Murphy, yes, sir. Well, we understand there's no negotiations going on, and there's no issue with the city at this point. Mr. Tom Blues, the second district councilman, is here who could answer any questions you all might have about that. I think we're okay with a withdrawal, too. I mean, that has the same effect of what I was requesting. There's no active application pending. Okay. I think that's the direction we're leaning. Mr. Councilman, please, would you like to add anything? Thank you. I have nothing to, you know, I'd be happy to answer your questions, but I do know that the lease was terminated, that the applicant from the date of the termination letter had 30 days to cure the default, and of course that deadline has long passed, that the administration, our commissioner of environmental quality, has no interest in reopening these discussions about putting this operation on a very vulnerable piece of land, which is the old landfill with a very sensitive cap. So from the city's point of view, I can speak with authority. This relationship with pull apart in regard to this particular piece of property has ended. There might be other locations at some other time, but as far as the city is concerned, this is not an open question anymore. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for coming today. So are you, yes sir, are you still in the leaning towards a withdrawal at this point? Yes sir. May be best. Okay. Any questions from the board in regards to this? No? If not, I'll entertain a motion. Mr. Chairman, I move that the case be withdrawn indefinitely. As suggested by the appeal. Ms. Bowen? I think if you wouldn't mind if we could just word it that the board moves to accept the applicant's withdrawal. I'll change my motion to that effect, please. Okay. Second. Motion has been made and seconded. If there's no further questions, all those in favor of withdrawal of C 2008-33 pull apart, please say aye. Any opposed? Motion is withdrawn then. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Any other postponements or withdrawals? If not, we'll continue through the agenda. At this time, take a quick look at all those that are recommended for approval to see if there's anyone present to object to those cases. The first one would be V2008-65, Lucas Hill and Frances Ann Thomas. Begin with this applicant here. Yes, okay, thank you. Is anyone here to object to this? No, okay, thank you. The next case is C2008-, well, that's scheduled for disapproval. Let's move on. C2008-58 Ron Adams is applicant here? Yes. Thank you. Anyone here to object to this case? No? Okay. Thank you. The next is C2008-60 American Avenue Baptist Church applicant here. Okay. Thank you. Anyone to object to this case? No. Next is C2008-61 Brian Yon applicant, yes. Anyone to object to this case? No. C 2008-62 First Federal Bank, applicant. Anyone to object? No. C 2008-63 Palumbo Properties Incorporated, applicant here. Okay. Anyone to object to this case? And C 2008-64 Keeneland Association Incorporated, applicant here. Anyone to object to this? No. Okay. Thank you. Prior to hearing our first case, I would ask that anyone wishing to speak or provide testimony today to be sworn in. Therefore, I would ask you to stand and raise your right hand. Do you swear the information you're about to give today shall be the truth? Okay, thank you. Anyone wishing to have a transcript of today's hearings may have one prepared at their expense if you see the staff on that. First case would be V2008-65. Lucas Hill and Frances Ann Thomas appeals for variance to reduce the required side yard from 10 feet to 5 feet in order to expand a residence in a single-family residential R1B zone on property located at 5 feet. 73 Wilderness Road, Council District 6. Applicant here? Yes. Please come forward. State your name. Frances Ann Thomas. Thank you for being here. The staff has recommended approval of this request subject to two conditions. Have you read the conditions? Yes. Understand and agree with them? Yes. Okay, thank you. Any questions from the board on this? If not, I'll entertain a motion. Second. Thank you. Motion has been made and seconded for approval of V2008-65. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. Thank you. Thank you. Good luck. the next on the agenda is C2008-57 Worldwide Church of God is the applicant here? no Mr. Marks this is recommended for postponement have you been in touch with the applicant? about a week ago and they understood the reasons and were working on how to address the concerns And at this time, I take it we're looking at a 30-day postponement? Okay. That would be until July 25, 2008. So if unless there's any questions from the board, I'll entertain a motion for postponement. Mr. Chair, I recommend that C2008-57 be postponed until July 25 meeting. I'll second. Thank you. The motion has been made and seconded for postponement of C2008-57. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. The next is C2008-58. Ron F. Adams appeals for a conditional use permit to establish a home occupation, a gunsmith shop, in a single-family residential R1C zone on property located at 429 Severin Way, Council District 10. Yes, sir. Your name, sir? Ronald F. Adams. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Adams. The staff has recommended approval on this subject to 12 conditions. have you read and agree with the conditions yes sir i have and i agree with them okay thank you hold on one second we've got some information being passed about neighbors yeah Mr. Chair, I have a question on one of these. Yes, sir. Number 10, it says no more than 10 firearms may be stored on the property at any one time. Does that include any firearms the owner may own personally? Are you saying not including any personal firearms? Yes. Okay. Mr. Marks, do you have an answer for that? That condition was consistent with a prior gunsmith application. That got a lot of attention. My understanding is the 10 is a total. So I guess we need to ask the applicant if that's acceptable, understanding that that 10 is the total. Okay. Mr. Adams. As far as the number of guns that you might keep on the premises at any one time? I have more than that of my own. Okay. Roughly total. I've got roughly 11 handguns and maybe 14 long guns. Okay. Purpose of this request would be what? Are we talking about repair or what? Repair and cleaning only. There will be no sale of firearms. Okay. Mr. Adams, how do you provide security for these arms? I have a safe. It's a large safe that all the firearms are contained within. You're only asking for to have handguns or rifles for hunting or anything like that. I'm sorry? You're only asking for people to have this business in your home to repair handguns. You're not going to have rifles or semi-automatic things weapons and so forth, just handguns? It would be all weapons, long guns and handguns. I'm retired law enforcement. I've got 35 years law enforcement. I'm retired. And I have quite a few friends in law enforcement that I do work for and as well as sportsmen with their long guns. I'm not concerned about your friends, Mr. Adams, coming into your home and taking your guns. I'm concerned about people who might be interested in a weapon breaking into your home and having access to handguns because you want an industry, a business in a community, in a neighborhood. So your people will be coming into your neighborhood to bring their guns and pick up their guns, I'm assuming, to some extent. And it could well become known that there is a business there which might attract someone to come and want to break in. So I'm interested in how secure the guns are, both handguns and rifles, whatever you're repairing or cleaning, are secure in your home. They are contained in a safe. Could you describe the safe, please? Oh, Sugarfoot. The front door to the safe is about as wide as this podium and stands maybe this high. And it contains all the weapons. Ms. Bell, I have one of those safes. Matter of fact, I have four of them. You can't get in them and you can't haul them out. Okay. They're very, very heavy, and in many cases they're bolted to the floor. Are yours bolted to the floor? No, ma'am, it's not, but it's in an area where it's been built around where it cannot be moved. That's fine, but, you know, this is a neighborhood, and you have to be concerned about the safety. That is one of the areas that this board must consider. Yes, ma'am. Ms. Bell, if it's any consolation to you, those few cases we've had in the same stream as this have had no problems over the years. Thank you. Thank you very much. Mr. Adams, I might note that part of the zoning ordinance does stipulate that there's no outside signage? Correct. Or advertisements? Okay. outside signage, no advertising, traffic is extremely limited. There will be no excess traffic in the area. I plan to pick up and deliver the firearms at an offsite. As far as testing of the firearms, that would be done at an offsite. Okay. I think I should note we do have some letters apparently from neighbors, and if I remember right, there was two in objection and two in favor or, yeah, in agreement of what you were attempting to do. So any other questions from the board on this? Ms. Bell? No. Good, okay. If there's no other discussion needed, I'll entertain a motion. Mr. Hume? Before you do that, I never did get an answer to my question about condition number 10. Is he going to be limited to, do you want it to say 10 firearms to be worked on? Because if he has a good collection of guns, he's going to have, he'll never be able to meet this criteria based on the way it's read. Thank you, Mr. Hume. Thank you. As far as repair, how many at one time do you think you might have? As many as one, two, maybe three at a time. So no more than 10 at any one time? No, sir. No, sir. Okay. So should this read no more than 10 firearms? To be repaired and stored at the property at any given time? I think you should be stored at any one time. He can repair one in an hour sometimes. I think the point is that it's been excluding his own. Well, I said repair for the main reason. Obviously, these are not intended to be his own weapons. So these are ten weapons above and beyond his collection. I think if we just add no more than ten firearms not owned by applicant may be stored at the property, I think that will cover it. That's true. Okay, so condition ten would read no more than ten firearms not owned by applicant may be stored at the property at any given time. I will. Everyone in, Mr. Adams, you're in agreement with that? Yes, sir. Okay. Any other questions? Thank you, Mr. Hume. Any other questions? If not, I'll entertain a motion. Mr. Chairman, I move that C-2008-58 Ronald F. Adams' appeal for conditional use permit to establish a home occupation. Gunsmith and a single family residence R1C zone on property located at 429-7-Way Council District 10 be approved as recommended by the staff and subject to the 10 conditions with number 10 being modified that no more than 10 firearms not owned by the owner may be stored on the property at any given time. Second. Thank you. Motion has been made and seconded for approval of C2008-58. Any other questions? Yes, Mr. Griggs. I think there were 12 conditions and it was a slip that we just said 10. It would be 12 conditions. I stand corrected. With the 10 being modified to read as I read, please. Thank you, Mr. Griggs. Motion has been made for approval of 2008 and seconded. Did we receive a second? I'm sorry. Second. Second. Yes. Thank you. Motion has been made and seconded for approval of 2008-58, Mr. Ron F. Adams, subject to the 12 conditions. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Thank you, Mr. Adams. Motion passes. Mr. Adams, I need your card. He's got his address. Next case would be C2008-60, American Avenue Baptist Church, who appeals for a conditional use permit to expand the church parking lot in an agricultural rural AR zone on property located at 4137 Todd's Road, Council District 12. applicant here. Your name sir? Kevin Warner with Carmen representing American Avenue Baptist Church. I'm sorry Mr. Warner who are you with? Carmen. Carmen. The staff recommends approval of this subject to five conditions. Have you and applicant read these conditions and would be in agreement with them? We have and we do. Thank you. Any questions from the board in regards to this? Comments from the staff? If not, I'll entertain a motion. Mr. Chair, I move that C-2008-60 American Avenue Baptist Church appeal for a conditional use permit to expand the church parking lot and agricultural rural zone on property located at 4137 Todd's Road be approved with the conditions as set forth by the staff. Thank you. Motion has been made and seconded for approval of C2008-60. No further discussion. I'll ask for a vote. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Warner. Next case would be C2008-61 Brian Yon who appeals for a conditional use permit to construct a 36 by 60 open-sided pavilion accessory to an existing church in an agricultural rural AR zone on property located 3500 Bracel Road, Council District 12. Yes, sir. Your name, sir? My name is Brian Young. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Young. The staff has recommended approval of this subject to three conditions. Have you read an agreement with those conditions? Yes, Mr. Chairman. Okay. Thank you. Any questions from the board or comments from the staff on this? Mr. Marks, one question. With this, the pavilion that they are asking for, the square footage, would be part of what's still allowed of 5,600 square feet? That's still allowed as far as expansion? The square footage of the pavilion would be part of that. So after that's accounted for for the future, they'd still be, I don't know exactly the number, but a couple thousand or so square feet. Deducting that square footage. I'm sorry, I didn't word that very well. Okay. You understand that, Mr. Young? Yes. All right then. Any other questions from the board? If not, I'll entertain a motion. Mr. Chair, I recommend that C2008-61 Brian Yon appeals for conditional use permit to construct a 36 by 60 open-sided pavilion accessory to an existing church in the agricultural area AR zone on property located at 3500 Versailles Road in Council District 12 be approved with the three conditions are set forth by staff. Second. Thank you. Motion has been made and seconded for approval of C2008-61. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. Thank you, Mr. Young. Thank you. Next case is C2008-62, First Federal Bank, who appeals for a conditional use permit to construct a drive-through facility accessory to the bank in a professional office P1 zone on property located at 101 Leastown Center Way, Council District 12. Your name, sir? I'm Jason Banks with Eagle Engineering. I'm here on behalf of First Federal Bank. We have read staff's conditions of approval and are in agreement with them. Okay, thank you. One second. We've got one letter in support. So just wanted to pass that by. I have a question. Yes. I was just curious as to when you're going to start construction on the bank? They're wanting to start soon, very soon. Wanting to start soon and how long before completion of the project? I don't know about completion because that will be up to the actual contractor who builds it but we currently have a development plan that was approved through the planning commission last month, so we're in good ways there. Mr. Banks, is this the corner lot as you come in? Yes, sir. First one on the left? Yes, sir. All right. Any other questions from the board? If not, I'll entertain a motion. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to move that C-2008-62 First Federal Bank Appeals for a Conditional Use Permit to construct a drive-through facility accessory to the bank and professional offices on property located at 101 Lee's Town Center Way be approved with the conditions as set forth by staff. Thank you. Is there a second? Second. Motion has been made and seconded for approval of C2008-62. There's no further questions. I'll call for a vote. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. Thank you. Next case is C2008-63, Palumbo Properties Incorporated, appeals for a conditional use permit to construct a self-serve car wash in a neighborhood business B1 zone on property located at 820 Lane Allen Road, Council District 10. Mr. Murphy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm Dick Murphy, and Danny Harp is with me, who's actually going to be building the car wash. He's a Lexington resident. I represent Palumbo Properties and Mr. Harp, and we do agree with the staff conditions. We have talked. There's a modification, I think, which the staff may be, I don't know if they've given to you or not. Yes, sir. This does recycle water, but no car wash recycles 100% of its water. And we talked to the staff and to the Division of Water Quality, Division of Engineering this week on that. and I proposed some conditions, but the staff came up with some other ones which we agreed to where we will design it subject to review of Division of Engineering and Division of Water Quality, and also we're going to do a sanitary sewer study to be accepted by the Division of Engineering and or Division of Water Quality. I understand that's similar to a note you all placed on a case last month where the issue came up about the consent decree and that sort of thing. So they're going to do a study and assure that there is capacity for whatever water this does put off. So with those modifications, we do agree to the staff recommendation and the revised conditions for approval. Thank you, Mr. Murphy. One second. We do have a letter which is in disagreement of. Pretty much with a concern as far as traffic. I think I saw that. I just would point out that there is this shopping center has not maximized the space it has to build. I mean it could be building a building in this location which would also generate additional traffic. Hopefully this car wash will be serving some of the people who are already there, but it will generate additional traffic, but a new building would generate additional traffic as well. Mr. Chairman, I've just got a curious question, Mr. Murphy. I assume, Mr. Harp, obviously you all do market studies on this sort of thing and traffic patterns and so forth. I know that right up the road from you at the corner of Alexandria and Versailles, there was a very nice car wash that did not make it. And I don't know in looking at your diagram how large yours is as compared to them, but I just was curious from a business point of view how... From a business point of view, I think it really didn't make it because of the land cost. They had to pay like $5.75 for the land cost, and we're not incurring any land cost. You know, we are currently on the property. So, you know, I think land cost is a big, significant cost in these type projects, and we're not incurring that. So big difference. Big difference not having a mortgage payment like that. Thank you, sir. Big difference. And between me and you, they made money by selling. They made a profit when they sold the property. Thank you. Mr. Murphy or Mr. Harp, I believe there had been one, I'm not sure if it's in this letter, there had been one concern as far as residents coming from the apartment tower down into the area? We have a picture and he'll show you where ours is going to stop and where the it's a long ways away. We wouldn't impede that at all. We have a sort of we've pieced together a panoramic shot of this and my panoramic shot is too big to okay there we go. This is the right and there's one behind you too to look at. This is the landscape line. The stairway is right back here and there was a fence post which we can hardly see. Is that about where it is? We're not going to be coming back past that fence post right there. And I would point out that entrance right now is in a driving lane that goes behind the shopping center. center and this would probably serve to slow down traffic going down that driving lane there. Thank you, Mr. Murphy. Any other questions? Yes, please. Yes. I noticed the condition refers to cars, number three. Will you not be doing vans and trucks and so forth? No, no trucks would be. No trucks, no vans? A normal pickup truck would be done but I mean just just you know people who own their normal vehicles would be done it'd be no commercial products I would feel comfortable if it no commercial would be written into the number three not a problem secondly I'm interested in asking engineering within what percentage of the water used would Would you think that it's reasonable for them not to recycle? I don't know the answer to that. There are various types of systems that they could use that recycle various amounts of water. However, it's been our experience over the last several years that any car wash that comes in is going to recycle the most amount of water they possibly can simply because of the business applications. And, Ms. Vail, 90% of all the chemicals have gone green. So, you know, even the water that goes through the system, the chemicals aren't going to hurt, you know, any person or animal or, you know, anything like that. Well, isn't there a history to water in the golf course that at one time the golf course chemicals and also had sufficient water from its wells to water the golf course? And within the last few years, that water seems to have evaporated someplace. and they think it's coming well it's obviously going someplace but a little different chemical situation where will your water go in other words which storm system will your water going the most of the water coming off of cars I mean you get the drip onto the parking lot which enters into the storm sewer system which serves the existing shopping center bearing in mind this This is already a paved surface, and it's already going into the storm sewer system. The sanitary sewer goes, I understand, into the same line that the Turflin Mall eventually goes into over toward the Harrodsburg Road on that. So I don't think we're entering the groundwater system here. I don't think that would be an issue, as Mr. Harp mentioned, with the chemicals, but I don't think it will be impacting that. But we we are subject to the division of water quality and division of engineering approval on this and I might add to we're Also in the process of getting our final development plan through the Planning Commission So they're dealing with those same issues as part of their review also And it's like they stated we want to try to recycle all the water we can because it cost You know it benefits us because we don't have to use as much water Thank you I guess as a follow-up, Mr. Harp, in regards to commercial vehicles being prohibited, how would you police that? How would you be able to stop that? Well, you'd have a height. You'd have a pole that would only limit certain height-type product in there. Okay. Okay. And they all have that now, typically, except for your interstate industrial-type areas. Okay. You know, the higher and the bigger the product that gets in there, the more dirt we incur and the more problems we incur. So we do limit it to a certain high type product. Okay. Thank you. So the recommendation, I think, Mr. Murphy is to, for number three to change completely as far as what you had here. the facility shall be designed subject to review and approval by the division of engineering and or division water quality to ensure the water use to wash cars is recycled at this location yes those two conditions three and seven were written by the staff but we do agree they were written by the staff okay okay um i think this is misleading miss bolon any suggestion as far as commercial vehicles. I think that, I mean, I think what you're trying to aim for is not having the large commercial vehicles. I think it's really a size restriction as opposed to, you know, business that may own a standard size pickup truck or something. So I think that when he says he's going to put a height restriction bar across there, I think that that's going to satisfy your concerns. And frankly, when I see car washes that can do those big commercial vehicles, they usually have to have a special lane with a special height to take them. So he's going to want to. There'll be no way to get in and out of this type of product. Right. I mean, he's going to. Okay. Thank you. So this is subject to approval, once again, as recommended by the staff, subject to now seven conditions, which I believe everybody has. Any further questions from the board? I have one. To reopen the water question just briefly. Condition three says that you'll be satisfying the division of water quality, which makes it sound like the portion of your non-recycled water that's let loose will go into the storm sewers. But then condition number seven makes it sound like you're going to have to be allowed to connect to the sanitary sewers, I guess for quantity so the water that doesn't evaporate off the parking lot and is not recycled into which system is it going? I believe most of that would go into the sanitary sewer the division of water quality is in charge of sanitary it's the old division of sewers and and I guess it is in charge of both sanitary and storm sewers at this point so your unrecycled water goes into the sewer system the sanitary sewer system correct okay correct Mr. Brock? Storm water runoff from the area surrounding the building would go into the storm sewer, and any water that was used inside the facility to wash vehicles would be recycled or drained into the sanitary sewer system. Typically, that is the way those are designed. Thank you. Could you explain why it's done that way? because typically the water that is used to wash vehicles, drinking water, whatever you would look at from that perspective is chlorinated, and we don't want that going into the storm sewer system. Okay. Any other questions? If not, I'll entertain a motion. So we can get our cars washed, I will vote on this. C. Mr. Chairman, I move to C-2008-63 Palumbo Properties, Inc. Appeals for a conditional use permit to construct a self-service car wash in a neighborhood business B1 zone on property located at 820 Lane Outland Road Council District 10 be approved as recommended by the staff and subject to the eight conditions, seven conditions. Second. Motion has been made and seconded for approval of C2008-63. No further discussion. With the revised, does that include the revised? That's C-dash that you just read to him. That includes those revised two, doesn't it? Yes. The seven conditions for the revision of number three. No further questions. Motion has been made and seconded for approval. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. Thank you, Mr. Harp. Thank you, Mr. Murphy. Thank you. The next case is C2008-64, Keeneland Association Incorporated appeals for a conditional use permit to amend a previously approved plan for parking and related improvement for a private club in an agricultural rural AR zone on property located at 3555 Rice Road Council District 12 and I will disqualify myself on this and at this time turn this over to Mr. Stout, the Vice Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The staff has recommended approval with five conditions. Ms. Wiseman, are you happy with those conditions? Yes, sir. We've reviewed those and we agree to those conditions. Thank you. Is there any questions from the board relative to this case? Ms. Weisman, this is going to go on the side next to the terrace that they're building, right? Yes, on the west side. And having been out there on the property, too, they're coming right along with their remodeling and renovation. Right. The kitchen that you approved last year. Yes. Right. I remember doing that. So any idea when they're going to be completing that project? September. Thank you. Any other questions? Any board member, any other questions? If we don't have any questions, I will accept the motion, please. Mr. Chairman, I move that C-2008-64, Canaan Association, appeals for a conditional use permit to amend a previously approved plan for parking and related improvements for a private club and agriculture rural zone on property located at 3555 Rice Road be approved with the conditions as set forth by the staff. We have a motion on the floor. Do I hear a second? And we have a second. All in favor, please signify by saying aye. Aye. All opposed? I abstain. One, two. No, I have to abstain. I'm a member. We had the chairman stepped out because he was associated, and we have one other abstention. So the motion carries with 4-0. Thank you very much. The abstention actually goes with the prevailing side and counts for the quorum. Is that it? I believe that's it. Thank you, Mr. Stout. I believe that covers the agenda today. I'll first ask from the board, are there any matters from the board that you'd like to bring up? Yes, sir. Yes. I attended another one of these wonderful sessions yesterday. Law Review for 2008 and I would tell you there are some things in there the if those that did not get to attend it probably needs to read this because there are some things in there that probably and especially at the end of this will probably affect us somewhere down the road this was a pretty interesting session I don't particularly like going to them but it was interesting and I think it's a lot of good information in there and I have to admit I did enjoy their presentation. Thank you. Mr. Stout, you didn't get a ticket, did you? No, I didn't get a ticket. Of course, when you live a clean life, people take care of you. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to ask because some of us I know still need some continuing education. Do we know Mr. Marks, where Barbara wins the next continuing education program is coming up? The next one of the APA audio conferences won't be until October, but I don't know if there are any other opportunities. We can probably do some stuff here for you if you're in need of credit hours. Okay. We can set up something here, but the next formal thing as far as the APA audio conferences won't be until September or October. Would it be okay if we could get a list at our next meeting or in the next packet as to what our status is in regard to our hours and so forth? Yeah, we can do that for you. Thank you. Also, I did read on Mr. Pike's website that he is offering another seminar-type situation here, and I believe it's in October, too. And I didn't know if it was going to be applicable to us or not. Generally, any of the things that Mr. Pike does, anything with the Kentucky Association of Counties or the Kentucky League of Cities or any of those seminars that he or anybody else does in association with those will count for the training, yeah. I have a suggestion that it might be worthwhile for the staff to get this information and have it on record in case it ever comes before us for a case that has been tried regarding billboards. Nassar Jewelers, Inc. versus the City of Concord, New Hampshire. I think it's something, a very interesting case. And we've had some cases here before us that I think some of these questions might address relative to the size of Lexington versus Concord, which is about relatively the same size. And also the trends in the area concerning digital science. I think it's something that would be worthwhile for you to have in a file Also, in case we needed information on it, it would come before us that we could research. See how I paid attention yesterday? Paid attention. Thank you, Mr. South. Any other items from the board? If not, I would like to recognize one item. would be that Mrs. Joanne Bell has very dutifully served, I believe, eight years. Just that in itself should be recognized very heartily. I know serving two years with her, she has provided a lot of guidance and thoughtfully looked at a lot of situations, needless to say stormwater, which needs attention in each and every case. but I myself would like to thank her not only for the eight years but especially on my part for the two years in which I've been able to serve with her. I believe we will be making a presentation to her at some point. Maybe did I hear in August if that works? And would just simply like to say thank you once again for serving. and I do have your phone number and I'm sure I'll be calling from time to time. Well, I've had a wonderful experience and enjoyed much of it, but I've learned so much about this community. It's an opportunity for any citizen, but the differences in the neighborhoods, and this is a wonderful, wonderful city of the county, and that's a sense that you get from being on the board. And what we have, we're, I think, extremely fortunate to have an outstanding staff to help and give guidance, and not all boards have that. And so we're extremely fortunate. You better be careful. They allow them to ask if you come back. No, I wouldn't. Better on that. Once again, thank you. Anything else from the board? Staff items. Anything from the staff? If not, the next meeting will be July 25, 2008. There's no further business. This meeting is adjourned. See you. Thank you. Thank you.