Music Thank you. Thank you. Woo! Thank you. so Good afternoon at this point. We'll call the August 22, 2008 Board of Adjustment hearing to order. I think on first order of business, I do not remember seeing any minutes to be approved. First order of business would be asking for any postponements or withdrawals. If anyone. Yes, please come forward. Hi, my name is Laura Zanatos and we are requesting a postponement for the CarMax Auto SuperSource Incorporated for one month. Okay, thank you. One second. Is there anyone here that would be in opposition to this postponement? If not, any questions from the board? I'm sorry, I didn't hear which case you're referring to. I'm sorry, the CarMax Auto Superstores? Oh, thank you. Okay. Any questions from the board? If not, I'll entertain a motion. Motion's been made. Is there a second? Second. Motion's been made and seconded for postponement. I'm sorry, I would presume this is 30 days until the September 26th meeting. Yes, okay. Motion's been made and seconded for postponement of V2008-67 CarMax Auto Superstores Incorporated until the September 26, 2008 meeting. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. Thank you. Any other requests for postponements or withdrawals? Yes, ma'am. Hi, I'm Evelyn Johnson, acting for a postponement for a month for the Precious Jules School of Excellence. Okay, that would be C2008-74, Evelyn A. Johnson, regarding property located at 549 Parkside Drive. Anyone present that would speak in opposition to this request for postponement? Questions from the board? If not, I'll entertain a motion. Move for postponement. Is there a second? Motion has been made and seconded for requests from postponement. And I'm sorry, once again, this would be until September 26th. Okay. Of C2008-74, Evelyn A. Johnson. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Thank you. Thank you. Any other requests for postponements or withdrawals? If not, we'll continue to sound the agenda. We'll go through the agenda asking for anyone, I guess also make sure the applicant is here, but also if anyone is in opposition to any of the cases, please let us just raise your hand if nothing else. First one would be Fee 2008-40, Reverend and Mrs. George Nays. applicant here yes thank thank you anyone in opposition to this no thank you second one would be v2008-77 ben and kim zimmerman applicant here yes anyone in opposition to this no thank you V 2008-78, Carol E. Jordan, applicant here. Yes, okay, thank you. Anyone in opposition to this? Okay. CV 2008-24, Panania Pontevisilea, Greek Orthodox Church, is applicant here. Mr. Marks? I've spoken with them recently and they just didn't have everything ready. They might have to ask for a variance due to the redesign and they have to re-notice based on the pretty significant design changes. So didn't get anything writing from them, but verbally they indicated they would have to postpone. Okay. Mr. Marks, did they ask how long they needed postponement? It would be next month, the 26th. Mr. Chair, I move that we postpone ICB 2008, 24 for 30 days, until our next meeting. Thank you, Mr. Stumbo. Is there anyone present that was here to speak in regards to this in opposition of? No? Any questions otherwise from the board? No? Okay. made for postponement until the September 26 2008 I do need a second second motion has been made in second and for postponement of CV 2008-24 all those in favor please say aye aye any opposed motion passes next case is CB 2008-51 Kentucky Easter Seals Society Incorporated is applicant here thank you sir anyone in opposition to this no okay thank you the next case C 2008-57 the worldwide Church of God is absent here mr. marks we have a withdrawal letter from them sorry so that has been withdrawn now yes it has miss Bowlin we need no action on that thank you next is C 2008-73 W.D. Thomas Newvine Baptist Church is after here yes thank you anyone in opposition to this okay sir are you applicant? Yes I am. Okay okay then we'll we'll we'll come we'll get to you in just a moment. I'm just checking to make sure everyone's here and if we've got any opposition. The next case is C 2008-75 Tara Richards is applicant here. Okay thank you. Anyone in opposition to this? Yes okay and then the last one is C 2008-76 Russell School Community Service Center applicant here yes thank you anyone in opposition to this okay thank you I would ask that if possible anyone that is here in opposition or has at least expressed opposition to any of these cases if you have opportunity you might speak with the applicant in a lot of situations it may be just lack of proper knowledge as to what is taking place instead of a real opposition to the request so if you have an opportunity to do give with the applicant prior to at this point I would ask for everyone who to be sworn in anyone that does plan to provide any testimony today to stand and raise your right hand. Acknowledge and affirmative. Do you swear the information you're about to give shall be the truth? Thank you. Yes, sir. Okay, I believe our first case, what we will do is take the ones that are scheduled for approval and have no opposition. First, the first case would be V2008-40, the Reverend and Mrs. George Nays, who appeals for variants to reduce the required rear yard from 10 feet to 5.5 feet. and then two, the request for the reduce the side yard from five feet to zero feet to allow a sunroom and deck to remain as built in a planned neighborhood R3 zone on property located at 319 Retrack Road, Council District 12. Yes, sir. Thank you, Chairman. Board members, first off, I'd like to thank you all for your indulgence and patience on this particular case because it has been postponed, I think, three times before. The reason... I'm sorry, if you would, state your name. I'm sorry, Phil Maloney representing Reverend George and Grace Nays. But the reason for asking for those continuance was the first time we were still trying to get the utilities out there to look at the property for purposes of getting encroachment agreements. And all utilities, including the Lexington-Fade Urban County government, have granted encroachment agreements. and then the other two times were to get the building inspector office out there and then a member of the staff out there to take a look at it so we could hopefully reach some sort of understanding of what could be done. We think that we have done that subject to your all's approval, but originally this side deck, which ran for about 31 feet from the side of the house to the back of the house, there was a zero setback. and we have found out during the course of this proceeding that it was originally thought that there needed to be a five-foot setback but really all is required is a three-foot yard setback and we are willing to comply with that so we have agreed that we will take off three feet from the side porch on this particular property. So really what is left at this point in time is a sunroom which was built on the back of the house without obtaining a building permit. And to give you a little explanation of what was going on there, Reverend and Mrs. Mays, Reverend Mays was the minister at Meadowthorpe Presbyterian Church. For the past ten and a half years, he's been provided a man's housing as part of his duties as the minister for the church. They bought this particular garden townhome in contemplation of his retirement back in August of 2006. They started moving into it in November of 2006. At about that particular point in time, they back up to Shillitoe Park. Shillitoe Park expanded their parking lot, which means what was essentially a field behind their property was turned into a parking lot, and because there was noise and activities going on until late at night and lights and doors slamming and cars starting up, They took what was originally an open deck and they worked with a contractor about enclosing that. And they asked them essentially, do we need any building permits or anything like that? And he said, well, for what I'm doing, you don't need to get any building permits. It turned out, obviously, they needed to get a building permit. But by that time, about 85% of the sun porch or sunroom had been built on, including the deck. that is when they receive notice from the building inspector's office and that's how we're before you. But the long and the short of it is that that sunroom is essentially built on the same footprint as what was an open deck and all of the homes along there have open decks. Some actually project out further than what theirs projected. Some are in but that really is the crux of the issue before you. that particular deck as you'll note and I presume everybody has gotten the revised plat that we submitted it extends 10.5 feet into a 15 foot setback it's I think seven and a half feet wide so it's about 137 square feet I think everybody agrees or at least the discussions with the staff is that if you if you cut that back any appreciable amount it essentially renders useless it for a sun porch. I guess it could be a nice pantry or closet or something, but we are asking for a variance for that particular reason. The considerations are is that it doesn't affect the safety, health, or welfare of anybody. There are some special circumstances, i.e. the construction or expansion of the parking lot, which took what was going to be kind of a private deck to where it isn't private, and the reason why they wanted to enclose it. There are no objections to the sun porch. There was one objection by the owner of the property, who I think he was here several meetings back, but his objection was that the steps from the deck on the side essentially crossed over his property line. That won't be a factor with our agreement with the staff on removing the deck on the side yard. So for those reasons, we would ask that you all favorably look at a variance for the sun porch, and we have agreed that we will take steps within the next 90 days to take care of the encroachment on the side yard. Plus, we will reapply or we will apply, excuse me, for a building permit, and there will need to be code compliance with regard to both the Florida room and the deck, which we will certainly adhere to, knowing that the building inspector's office is familiar with the situation and we've been in discussions with them. Thank you, Mr. Maloney. Mr. Marks, do you have anything to add or planning is in agreement? You know, we went through several options that they had proposed to revise both the deck and the sunroom and finally came to the conclusion, you know, what's most important to accomplish here. And we concluded that maintaining an open side yard area was the most important for access of emergency folks, property maintenance, in terms of the character of the neighborhood. You really don't see that kind of improvement in the side yard areas. we were comfortable with leaving the sunroom and is mainly because of the adjoining park and as mr. Maloney explained there were some circumstances there with regard the timing of them purchasing their property and that parking lot getting expanded that we thought probably would have been relevant if they'd gone through the normal process of you know going through all this before it actually got built so we have overheads showing that parking lot if you're interested in looking it thank you mr. Heem do you have anything to add no we're fine with the agreements mr. Merloni yes sir bars you know understand the sunroom as far as There's the side porches. I think, if I've seen it right, there's an open porch and there's a screened-in porch. What's going to be removed? Well, we're essentially, that side porch runs 31 feet or thereabouts, all the way from about maybe two-thirds, or excuse me, one-third from the street all the way to the back of the sunroom. So we're essentially going to take off, if I remember correctly, it's three feet of that porch. And we're going to have to do some reconstruction, I guess, to put, to re-screen the section that's screened about, I'd say about a quarter of that porch, maybe a third of that porch is screened and the rest of it is open. So we're essentially going to shear off three feet, 31 feet back. How wide is the porch right now? I think we can tell that by that plat. but it's my understanding it's about I thought it had it. I'm going to say it's about 12 to 13 feet. Okay. And you're going to remove enough to 3 feet so it's going to be 9 to 10 feet wide. Steps won't be an issue then? Steps won't be an issue. We'll either do something in the backyard or we'll cut in, you know, we'll build the steps into the porch. Any other questions from the board? I have one. Is there any dispute about where the property line is? Has there been a recent survey? Yes. And there'll be nothing built above ground level for the first three feet and maintaining that three-foot side yard. Is that correct? That's correct. That's correct. Including steps? Including steps. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? Yeah, I just have one question. There's this letter from Sandra Wirtz, and she said that she now would like to build a sunroom or patio on her house. Will we then be facing a similar, do you know, this is a 315 retract road, and she says she wants to build a patio sunroom on her house that will face the corner of the park. Is there likely then to be another request here for a variance? I can speak to it but she is a tenant as far as I know she doesn't even have an offer or contract to purchase that property she's been supportive of our request and I'm perfectly honest with you I wasn't familiar with with with that letter but she doesn't own the property is it but if this to the extent that she wanted to or the owner did would it be result in a similar request for a variance do you know I mean as far as the location of 315 I can't say with any certainty but I think they've already get don't isn't there a porch she's gonna she's actually got a kind of a concrete patio porch on on the side of her property but but her I remember correctly there's kind of an indentation into the side of her house and there's a side entrance. I guess I'm just wondering how special the circumstances are if we grant this request how many similar could could we expect? Somewhat unusual to have but I wouldn't say copycat variances filed. What we don't know on this other property is how far the house is already set back from the rear yard and whether that would be a reasonable amount to get a sunroom in without a variance. I think at a minimum it looks like from the easement there would be a need for similar encroachments because the easement is 15 feet which is far more than the rear yard requirement. So I think that is much more likely for any additions along these houses backing up to the park. How many houses are there by this parking lot? We'll put the photo up it It looks like about a dozen. Where were the second house from the tip of that pin? I count 14. Personally speaking, I don't have a problem with what they're requesting or anyone else requested because of where the parking lot is. It seems to me like there should have been some consideration taken to the people that live there when they put the parking lot back there. Mr. Marks, I believe we're – is the staff looking at the fact that timing-wise as to the parking lot being built and when the applicant was buying the property was being considered as a special or unusual circumstance in this situation? Yes, we do, and we did acknowledge that it would have some applicability perhaps to those other residents along there, but at least that applicability is confined to that immediate vicinity, so we were comfortable with it in that respect. Okay. Thank you. I'll use Mr. Stout's statement at various times. I don't think we set precedence here. Any other questions? If not, I'll entertain a motion. Mr. Chairman, I'll move that V-2008-40, Reverend and Mrs. Nays, appeal for aberrance to, one, reduce the required rear yard from 10 feet to 5.5 feet, and two, reduce the side yard from 5 feet to 0 feet. Allow sunroom and a deck to remain as built in the planned neighborhood, residential hard tree zone on property located at 319 Retrack Road Council District 9 be approved as recommended by the staff and subject to the five conditions. Second. Mr. Chairman, I apologize, but I forgot to mention that the staff had also recommended that the side yard variance be withdrawn. So if you could modify the motion, I think Mr. Maloney's prepared to do that. Yeah, the that's what reads is that number two as far as side yard variance it is withdrawn So we only have one thing to consider here Motion still stands with the exception of number two. Okay, thank you motion has been made a second I'll second that mr. Chairman. I would like to ask the question though and mr. Hume. I assume Mr. Malone you said that the that the the steps and so forth would be removed within 90 days as building inspection do you normally make will you go out there within 90 days to make sure that that is there's been completed yes sir I'm assuming they're going to apply for a permit today well not today but we will be applying here soon building permit yes sir yes sir how soon would be soon next week we need we're we're we're coordinating things with the builders so Yes, sir. Hopefully next week. Yeah, we don't have a problem with it because once we get the permit, we'll hold the certificate of occupancy up on it until such time. But, yeah, I would prefer it to be less than 90 days. It seems like we're getting ready to go into the non-buildable season. Well, if I'm the adjoining property owner, I'd probably prefer less than 90 days as well. We'll take the steps off just as soon as we can. In terms of doing all of the construction, though, it may take a little time because I'm not sure what our builder schedule is. but we can satisfy that step requirement. Can you have your demolition done in 30 days? Sure. How about that? Very good. That's good. Thank you, Mr. Hume. Mr. Mormon. Okay. So, motion has been made and seconded for approval of V2008-40, Reverend and Mrs. George Nays. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. Thank you, Mr. Mormon. Thank you all very much. Thank you, Jim. Before we go on, I would like to note that we did have a want to recognize Mrs. Joanne Bell for eight years of service. I don't believe she's here yet. Hopefully she will be here at some point in time. Our next case is V2008-77 Ben and Kim Zimmerman appeals for variance to reduce the required front yard from 50 feet to 44 feet in order to construct a room addition in an agricultural rural AR zone on property located at 291 Carter Brook Lane, Council District 12. Your name, sir? Ben Zimmerman. Thank you, Mr. Zimmerman, for being here. The staff has recommended approval of this subject to two conditions. Have you read those conditions? Yes, I have. And agree with those? I do. Does the staff have any questions? No? If not, I'll entertain a motion. Mr. Chairman, I'll move that item V-2008-77, Ben and Kim Zimmerman, appeal for variance to reduce the required front yard from 50 feet to 44 feet in order to construct a room addition and agricultural rural zone on property located at 291 Carter Brook Lane be approved subject to the two recommendations by staff. Second. Motion has been made and seconded for approval of V2008-78 Mr. Kerr whoops I'm sorry I've already turned the page I'm ahead of myself. I'm sorry. Motion has been made and seconded for approval of V2008-77, Mr. Ben and Kim Zimmerman. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. Thank you. Now, next case would be V2008-78. Carol E. Jordan appeals for a variance to reduce the required side yard from 6 feet to 0 feet in order to construct a room addition in a two-family residential historic district overlay R2-slash-H1 zone on property located at 515 South Mill Street, Council District 3. The applicant here? Yes, sir. Mr. Chairman and members of the board, my name is Brian Hill with CMW Architects Engineers. We're the firm that has designed this addition for Ms. Jordan. She would be here today, but she thinks she broke her foot Tuesday night, and she's home in bed. So she sends her apologies. I'm happy to answer any questions, but it looks, you know, like the staff has recommended approval. So we support that and would ask for approval. Do you agree with the three conditions? Yes. One second. There's a couple of letters here. In favor of the motion support. I would note just for your all's interest sake, this home was built back 1838, and at one point in time there was actually a portion of the home that was positioned we were asking to do the expansion. I think it looks good. Any other questions? Just waiting for the letters to get circulated. If there's no other questions, I'll entertain a motion. Mr. Chairman, I move that V-2008-78 Carol E. Jordan appeal for variance to reduce the required side yard from 6 feet to 0 feet in order to construct a room addition in a two-family residential historic district overlay R2-H1 zone on property located at 515 South Mill Street, Council District 3, be approved for the reasons suggested by the staff and subject to the staff's three conditions. Second. Thank you. Motion has been made and seconded for approval of the V2008-78 Carol E. Jordan. No other questions. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. Thank you. Thank you. Next case is CV2008-50, Kentucky Easter Seals Society Incorporated, appeals for a conditional use permit to construct a hospital addition in an agricultural urban zone and to construct a parking lot on a separate lot in a professional office P1 zone. Variances are also requested to reduce the required side yard from 25 feet to 1.5 feet in the AU portion of the property for construction of the hospital addition. also to reduce the required side yard from 12 feet to 1.5 feet in the P1 portion of the property for the hospital addition and to reduce the required side yard from 12 feet to 5 feet in the P1 portion of the property for construction of the parking garage on properties located at 1826, 1832, and 2050 for Sales Road, Council District 11. Yes, sir. Afternoon Mr. Chairman, members of the board, I'm Bruce Simpson on behalf of Cardinal Hill Hospital in connection with this application. First, a technical matter. We have earlier today filed a withdrawal of an application for the conditional use permit and an associated variance request for the property located at 1826 Versailles Road. We filed an amended development plan, site plan if you will. a week ago that's been reviewed by the staff and obviously Mr. Marks. We don't need those conditional uses because we relocated the parking on site where the existing hospital facility is. It's now an accessory use and doesn't require conditional use for that and the variance goes away as well. Secondly, this matter, this application has been postponed a couple of times in connection with working out a resolution with an adjoining property owner, Mr. and Ms. Hodge, who has property east of the existing Cardinal Hill campus. We're still in the process of resolving those issues. We made significant headway. We're not there yet. However, we've been advised by their council that they're not going to oppose our application. We're going to go proceed in good faith and resolve the issues that remain with the Hodges, and they're not down here to object to our application. Of course, this is one of those cases where, because it does have a development plan, we'll have to go to the Planning Commission for approval of that development plan, and that will be held next month. And so that's kind of the background of where we've been. We have had some postponements. We're here today for conditional use application and a variance for the main Cardinal Hill campus. The staff has recommended approval subject to the conditions. We're in agreement with those conditions. We have done engineering studies on the property with respect to sewer capacity and stormwater issues. We've submitted those to the Division of Engineering. Mr. Brock has reviewed those. John Carman is here from Carman & Associations. His firm did those studies. And I'm representing to you that at this point in time, to the extent that we can, we've satisfied the Division of Engineering that there is existing capacity and that our proposed stormwater retention system will, in fact, reduce the flow of rate from what it is right now. In other words, the post-development runoff rate will be less than what the runoff rate is right now on the Cardinal Hill property. We have studies we've submitted to the Division of Engineering. I have studies and a number of other handouts that I can present to the board and go over in detail if you wish. But we believe that we are in compliance with what the staff has recommended, what the request was three months ago from Ms. Bell inquiring about stormwater and sanitary sewer issues. Those are obviously technical matters, and we have spent considerable time with the Division of Engineering to satisfy them at this point in time. that we've demonstrated enough homework to go forward. So we're here to seek approval based on the conditions. We're obviously here to expand if necessary on our presentation. Thank you Mr. Simpson. Questions? I have one question to the staff. My question is to the staff based upon the fact that they were including the addresses located at 1826. Were any of the recommendations of the conditions here enforced due to 1826 or will these conditions remain as they are? Well, for condition number one, it's an easy fix. We can take off the reference to the understanding that the width of the parking garage will be reduced so that a 25-foot setback from the floodplain will be maintained. So we can strike that out as it's shown on this overhead screen. We also like to add a condition number seven regarding the sanitary sewer study. You want to put that up there on the screen? And we'll put that one up as well. So it will be as written there. We're going to need to add the word sanitary before sewer. Just to clarify, we're talking about sanitary sewers, not stormwater. A sanitary sewer capacity study shall be conducted in accordance with the requirements of the Division of Water Quality and accepted prior to issuance of any building permits. Are you in agreement with that? We are, yes. We were mindful that that was likely going to be a condition. In fact, I brought that language myself if we got into further discussion. But we've already done a capacity study at this point in time and we'll certainly comply with that condition. The only other thing might be to clarify, if someone makes a motion, that paragraph that describes everything we can put that up on the screen too to show what needs to be stricken if you want so we stopped we stopped number one at Planning Commission don't we or did you add something else to that yeah for that condition one we didn't add anything we just took out Simply put, number three is not needed now, Mr. Simpson. That's correct. We've withdrawn that. One more quick change to that opening description. Thank you. Before we get too far away from him, Mr. Brock, related to what Mr. Simpson has indicated that he or his applicant has been working with you or your department, everything is to this date satisfactory with you? They have submitted the preliminary information regarding the sanitary sewer capacity and the storm sewer design. They have not submitted a final design yet, but based on the preliminary information they have presented, we are okay with the concepts that they have shown and the information that they have given us so far. but as I say, they haven't given us the final study yet. Okay. Other questions? If not, I'll entertain a motion. Mr. Chairman, I'll move that item CV-2008-51, Kentucky Easter Seal Society, Inc. appeal for a conditional use permit to construct a hospital addition in an agriculture urban zone. variances are also requested to reduce the required side yard from 25 feet to 1.5 feet in the AU portion of the property for construction of the hospital addition number two reduce the required side yard from 12 feet to 1.5 feet in the P1 portion of the property for the hospital addition and three reduce the required side yard from 12 feet to 5 feet and the P1 portion of the property for construction of the parking garage on properties located 1826 1832 and 2050 for sales road be approved with the conditions and set forth by the staff adding that item number seven regarding the sanitary sewer that was removed a twin twice and the I will am in that that final variance you mentioned has been withdrawn so well let's withdraw the last portion of that motion be approved. I'll second. Motion has been made and seconded for approval of CV 2008-51, Kentucky Easter Seals Society Incorporated. And at this point, I will ask, is everyone understanding where we are with the various removals and changes? If so, I'll ask for a Motion. I'm sorry. Motion has been made in second and I'll call for a vote of CV 2008-51. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Thank you all. Our next case will be C2008-76 Russell School Community Services Center. It deals for a conditional use permit to establish a community center and a child development Center in a planned neighborhood residential R3 in a neighborhood business B1 zone on property located at 201 Westfield Street, Council District 1. Yes, sir. Mr. Chairman, I'm Dick Murphy. I'm representing the Russell School Community Service Center, Incorporated, and that is a nonprofit corporation which is formed by two local agencies, the Community Action Council and the Urban League. And with me today is Jack Birch on the fourth row, who's, as you know, Executive Director of Community Action Council. Ty Sturtevant, who is the Supervisor of Community Centers for the Community Action Council. And Bob Birch is our designer from Snap and Associates here locally. And we're very pleased to be able to preserve the school. It's a community landmark and also preserve the fact that it will be used for community meetings, as it has in the past, and to educate our children as it has in the past. We do agree with all the staff conditions. I have one proposed addition and just one clarification. On condition one, where we, of course, have to comply with the site plan, states with the understanding the play area will be expanded as necessary to provide at least 25 square feet of play area per child. We will be providing more than 25 square feet per child, and I talked to Mr. Hume and the staff, and they agree we can have the play area larger than it is shown without needing to come back and amend our site plan before you all. So it will be larger than we're showing on the property. And last, I've asked for additional condition eight, which says the applicant is granted three years to exercise the conditional use permit. This will be done in phases. The first phase is the housing, which is the front part of the building. Second phase is the child development center and community center, which is in the left rear wing of the property, which already exists, will be remodeled for the Head Start Center and the Community Action Council Community Center. And the right rear portion, which you can see on the site plan, is labeled as proposed community space. That may take a little longer to do, and we would request three years to exercise our permit for that. As you all know, law requires that conditional use permits be exercised within one year unless you all grant more time. And you all have in the past granted additional time for churches and other groups that takes a little longer to get funding lined up on those. So we'd ask three years to exercise this conditional use permit. And we'd be happy to answer any questions you all might have. Thank you. Questions? I have a question for the staff. Do you have any reason to object to three years? No, we don't. Mr. Murphy. Mr. Hume? Yes. Is this a child development center? Is it a daycare kind of atmosphere? It's a head start center which has academic component. an academic program designed to get children ready to succeed in elementary school when they go to elementary school. So there's no reason to limit the number of children like we would at daycare or anything like that? It's an educational facility. It's an educational facility, right. Thank you. Mr. Chairman? Yes? Just a reminder on condition 7 to like we just did for the other case, add the word Sanitary before sewer. Okay. Yeah, I just didn't add sanitary in front of sewer. It reads asanitary sewer capacity study. So we've got, in essence, one, number eight, which is, as far as condition number eight, which is shown above, and then on number seven, change of wording simply to read a sanitary sewer capacity study. Mr. Murphy, the track, what's the purpose of the track? Well, the track is there now, and it's interesting because, as you know, right north of us is the Dunbar Center, which is the headquarters of Parks and Recreation. That actually, some people thought that was part of the Dunbar Center, but it was actually sold to my client the russell school community service center incorporated by the school board so it's on our property here and as you can show see on the plan we're showing the track remaining we will have to cross it at one point for to get into the new parking area which is going to be there but we do show the track to be remaining on this plan not not to speak for Mr. Stout or Mr. Stumbo, but both of them have just commented that this is a great addition to the area and applaud everyone very much for doing so. I know they've worked real hard and on behalf of community action, they have had community meetings for at least four years leading up to this and this is a community driven program. They ask for input from the community to decide what's going to go into this. Thank you. Any other questions? If not, I'll entertain a motion. Mr. Chair, I recommend that C2008-76 Russell School Community Service Center appeals for a conditional use permit to establish a community center and a child development center in a planned neighborhood residential R3 and a neighborhood business B1 zone on property located at 201 West 5th Street Council District 1 be approved with the eight conditions as amended thank you is there a second second motion has been made and seconded for approval of C 2008 76 Russell School Community Service Center all those in favor please say aye Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Thank you, Mr. Murphy. Thank you very much. We'll back up a little bit now to – where's it back up one? I'll go with one at this moment. C, 2008-75, Tara Richards, who appeals for a conditional use permit to provide family child care for up to 12 children in a single family residential R1D zone property located at 604 Tundra Court Council District 7. Yes, ma'am. My name is Sarah Richard. Thank you, Ms. Richards. I'm here to ask for approval to use my home as a daycare for up to 12 children. I'm currently using the home for daycare, for child care up to six children, and I'm asking for the capacity to increase. Okay. You're asking to go up to 12. Well, yeah, the 12. And changing the hours? Well, the hours right now is a 24-hour daycare, but I currently do not have any children overnight. I did at one time, so I can't. I mean in the as a recommendation you guys have said that I could have six overnight and I would do the 12 until 6 o'clock So I would take that Okay, so you have read conditions and Agree with them. Yes. Okay. All right, then Yes, we do we do have a couple Three or four letters here, I guess Give us a moment to just take a look at those. I'd like to ask the staff a question before. You go right ahead, Mr. Stout. And seeing so many of these come before us, isn't, and you all have made the recommendation for approval, 12 is the limit in this particular situation? She can't go beyond that? That's correct. And that 12 would only be during Monday through Friday, 7 a.m. to 6 p.m.? Yeah, the additional six would be subject to the normal hours that you mentioned yet. Okay. Okay. Mr. Chairman. Ms. Richard, I'd like to ask a question. Do you own the property? Currently, my fiancée owns the property. Your fiancée owns the property? And you currently have six children, correct? Not at any given time, no. I mean, enrolled right now, no. How many do you have? It depends on the shift. In the morning, I have three, excluding my own two, so that's five. But under six years old, you're required to have six. Above six years old, I can have eight because I have two of my own children, and they're under two. So they'll let me have eight in the afternoon hours because I have five additional children right now that I take care of in the afternoon. So I'm allowed to have eight in the afternoon shift. I have right now seven. And in the daytime shift, I have five, including my two. Thank you. Ms. Fritcher, do you or do you plan to have any employees? I have two employees, excluding myself. You have two employees. Where do they do, I presume they drive to work? Well, no, one of them doesn't. She ticks the bus. She works with me during the daytime, and she rides the bus. One does drive and one rides the bus. Right. And I presume you have vehicles? Well, I have a vehicle, but the one employee that I have is my fiancé. He does the weekends for me because I have to have someone to provide me with respites in some 24 hours. So I use her, the one employee that I have during the daytime. and then he does the weekends providing me provides me respite over the weekends so he uses my car so it's the same vehicle okay okay and she doesn't have a vehicle so okay I think I follow all that any other questions we're still passing give us just a moment I have a question go ahead mr. Griggs Without this additional, without this permission for six additional children, you would be able to keep children 24 hours a day. Is that right? Yes. That's just what's allowed. Yes. If we increase that number to 12, you still would be allowed to keep children overnight, but not over six. In other words, this doesn't curtail your rights with the first six. Is that right? No. I mean, you're not approving me for 12 overnight, but the state would. So I guess assuming that it would be even hard for you to put up 12 overnight, you would be able to have 12 during the day and still have 6 overnight. Right. But did I hear you correctly that you don't have children staying? Right now I do not, no. Would you be willing to give up the opportunity to have children overnight if you get this increase to 12? If I was allowed to keep 12 until, I mean, the afternoon as well, then I wouldn't have to keep. I would be willing to give up the overnight. But I don't think, I think the 12 was until 6 p.m. How long is your afternoon shift? When's the latest that they would leave? I have a group of children that leave at 11 o'clock on Fridays, but every other day they leave between 9 and 10 o'clock. But on Fridays they leave at around 11 o'clock. Well, I haven't seen these opposition letters, but I was anticipating that they might be worried about overnight stays, and maybe that would be a solution. Okay. You are licensed, aren't you? Yes. Mr. Griggs, also to answer your question, the zoning ordinance does allow family child care for up to six children, accessory, and then over six under our zoning ordinance does, of course, require the board's approval of a conditional use. The state licensing numbers might be slightly different than our zoning requirements. Any other questions for Ms. Richards at the moment? Tell you what, Ms. Richards, I believe we do have someone in opposition, so let us hear from them, and we'll come back to you. Thank you. I'm sorry, Mr. Hume. I would like to say our office has never received a complaint about the existing six children that have been there. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Hume. Thank you, Ms. Richards. Yes, ma'am, please come forward. State your name. I'm Bonnie Burton. Thank you. Where do you live, Ms. Burton? 2820 Winter Garden Drive. Our property adjoins her property on the back side. On the back side? On the back side. Okay. Thank you. Yes, ma'am, go ahead. One of the things we had a problem with is she is not the owner of the property, so she She doesn't have a vested interest in this property and trying to make a conditional change in use of the property. It affects our property because we live there, we own it, we live there and she doesn't have a vested interest whether she keeps one to six now as she says she does. There are children there, I haven't ever seen six there, but there are children there. So in here, I was noticing that you said you recommended that the parking spots outside the gate of her house, of her yard, would be left for two cars of people coming in. Parking has been a big concern of mine because you're unloading and loading children on a cul-de-sac, so it's very limited. You also said that she would park her car in the back, on the back driveway. that is in the middle of the proposed playground for these children. Another thing, you asked if she was licensed, and that's the first time I knew anything. I don't know her. I've never met her. They've only lived there. They've only owned the property since 2007. We've lived there. My husband's been there 12 years. But we've never met them. She may be a very nice lady, but there's a lot of concern when you take a residential area and you're wanting to make it into a more commercial-type zone. I don't feel like this is fair to us because we bought in a residential area. We didn't buy next to a commercial property, and now that's trying to change it. Since she doesn't have vested interest, if for some reason her business fails, does she have a business plan? has she proposed all this out to be able to cash flow for two years. They say anywhere from one to two years. I work for a bank, and I work with commercial loans all the time, so I see this, I see what has to be in place. You have to have a business plan. You have to be able to support yourself for the first two years of a new business going into operation and not depend on the cash flow from income of it to be able to support it. You've got to have that cash flow there. If for some reason her business fails, which 90% of the small businesses do fail, according to Dun & Bradstreet, in the first year, especially in this economy, if her should fail, you've got a zoning there in the middle of a residential neighborhood that has changed the whole area. Ma'am, can I ask you a question, please? I'm sorry. May I ask you a question? You sure can. I'm nervous as everything, but you sure can. Have you been around Lexington how many years? I've been in Lexington almost 16 years. My husband grew up here. Have you noticed that throughout this entire community, just about, that there are these type of businesses within neighborhoods? The growth of Lexington has really changed even in the 16 years I've been here. Have you noticed that? Yes, I have. In some neighborhoods, yes. This board, for the past several years that I've served on it, and it's been many, has granted these type of conditional uses. With the understanding that we know we're going to have people to come before us to complain about neighborhood businesses. And I don't think it's the concern of the neighbors as to how she runs her business or how long the business lasts or what kind of finances she has to maintain the business. It's whether she meets the requirements that the board, I mean that the city, government, and the staff has stipulated for her. Now, if there is a problem with this property where she cannot manage without creating a problem, quote, unquote, for the neighbors, then she has that right. And she is doing it with six students right now, six youngsters right now. Did you know she had six over there now? I knew there were some. I didn't know how many were there. Was it disturbing you? Yes. when they throw their balls over my yard, sponges, all those type things, when I have to clean it up, when I get ready to mow my yard. Did you complain to anyone here? No, I've tried to be a nice neighbor, but I guess it's done me no good. Did you complain to her? No, I don't know her. I've never met her. I've never even seen her out in the yard with the children. They're in the last part of our concern and part of the problem, I think, personally. Thank you. I'd like to say also that I don't believe there's a big financial outlay. She's stable in the house right now, and to add additional children wouldn't put her at risk financially. And if her business fails, laying off that one employee and scaling back to a stable level is not going to turn the neighborhood upside down. It's there's not any of this business plan that you've talked about that seems logical to me as a disruptive force. Given this type of business, it would be easy to ramp up and easy to ramp back down if it's not as lucrative as she expects it to be. And it does solve a solution in the community that child care is a huge necessity. and to spread it around these neighborhoods in groups of 6 and 12 is convenient and it's healthy. So unless there's a horribly disruptive issue, which would be out of the norm, or if there's a safety issue, I tend to think these should be approved and work themselves out. And good communication between neighbors is the most important thing. If you have a particular problem with her, it likely could be solved across the fence. Another thing I've noticed just since I've been here is a question came up on previous things about the sanitary sewer system being checked. Is it enough for this many people? She has two employees. She has 12 children. If she has 12 children, is it enough? You're in a cul-de-sac and overloading. I just don't understand why, with the parking situation being it as is, because it's very limited, and with the sewer system being as it is, I mean, it can only do so much. Well, this is not a leach field. It's part of our city sanitary system. Those people would be using it in one location or another. It's not going to overload the sewer system. Parking is addressed by traffic engineering and they seem satisfied. And she's to park her car in the middle of the playground? It's a parking, it's her loop around driveway. It seems pretty safe to me. Okay. We may address different issues in a different court. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. I would have a question for Ms. Bowlin. As far as the ownership, property of the ownership, does that come into play? I didn't have a copy of the application. She would have to have the authorization of the property owner to apply for the conditional use permit. And a follow-up to that, if she doesn't do it anymore, it's personal to her, the conditional use permit, is that correct? Or would a subsequent owner be able to use it for daycare as well? If there is not a condition placed on it that it will become null and void should she cease operating this business, then a conditional use permit is interpreted as running with the land. But that condition can certainly be put on it. Would you object, Ms. Richard, would you object to having a condition that the conditional use permit be limited to you? And if you stop running a business there and subsequently your fiancee sells the property that it not run with the land. No, I wouldn't object to that. Would that leave some of your concerns? I've got one other concern. My name is Leslie Burton. I'm coming forward, sir. I bought the house. I'm sorry, if you would repeat your name for. Leslie Burton. Thank you. I bought the house about 12 years ago and it's just been a residential house for me. But I have two small dogs, and if kids aggravate them, you know, they might bite them through the fence. And it worries me that, you know, they're just little dogs, you know, they're little chihuahuas. And they're really not ferocious dogs, but if you aggravate them, they could bite one. And that worries me. And if she wants to run a daycare, that's fine. I mean, I think that she needs to put a privacy fence up where they can't get to them. Can't aggravate the dogs to where they'll bite them. I'd hate to see kids get bit, you know. Well, I think anyone would. And that's my only concern. Okay. All right. Thank you, Mr. Burton. There is a fence there, though, correct? I do have a chain-link fence, yes. Okay. Ms. Richards, is that chain-link fence secure as far as anywhere the children are going to be? The fence is on the base of the yard. I mean, they play on the entire yard. there are they do have I know they have the dogs there because they come in between the trees that are standing up on the fence. Is there any way that you could get the fence covering to go on the inside of that fence? Sure. Would you object to that being a condition? Not at all. Mr. Stout, is there any particular kind of barrier you want to know? Is that the owner's fence or is that whose fence does it belong to? Fence on the line. I don't know whose fence it is. Okay. So you would have the option to do it on your side as well as she does on their side, correct? Yes, but I shouldn't be out of any expense for her business. Oh, we understand that. Say that. We understand that. Say that. Okay. Which property are we talking about here so we can pinpoint the section of the fence? We're talking about 604 Tundra. Which adjoining property? Presume the back. Back. It's the straight back. Your address is 2820 Winter Garden. Mr. Stout, what kind of barrier are you recommending? They have a plastic barrier that you can put on the inside, for instance, where you may see through, or you can't see through, and it will go all the way around and prevent juncture from going up and sticking your fingers through. All right. I would hope that she would seek some assistance from somebody in the building that might be able to suggest something to her that can help alleviate this problem. Mr. Chairman, we're going to try and put these two additional conditions up on the board. I was going to ask. I'd lost number six. I'll read them. Six, this conditional use permit shall be null and void if the appellant no longer resides at this location. Number seven, the bottom portion of the fence shall be covered next to 2820 Winter Garden Drive. Any other questions? No. I want to make a comment to the young lady is that the best way to create and develop a business that's in the neighborhood is to make sure that everybody surrounded by your business understands what you're doing and that you have no responsibility for their property nor do they have for yours, but you must maintain that property in order where there are no complaints. and I know how difficult it is at times for people who are going to live around you, but beware they're going to be watching you. Yes, sir. That's all I tell you. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? If not, I'll entertain a motion. Chairman, I move that C-2008-75 to our Richards appeals for conditional use permit to provide a family child care for up to 12 children in a single-family residential R1D zone on property located at 604 Tundra Court, Council 604 Tundra Court, Council District 7, be approved as recommended by the staff and subject to the seven conditions. Second. Do you understand all the conditions? Yes, sir. Motion has been made. Is there a second? I'll second it. Motion has been made and seconded for approval of C2008-75 Tara Richards, subject to seven conditions. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. and Mrs. Burton. for the next case backing up to C2008-73 W.D. Thomas New Vine Baptist Church appeals for a conditional use permit to expand the church's already constructed parking lot in a single family residential R1D zone on property located at 4339 4349 and 4351 Nevine Lane and 5067 Ode Vercels Road Council District 12. Yes, sir. Your name, sir? Yes, my name is W.D. Thomas, Jr. W.D. Thomas. Thank you for being here, Mr. Thomas. The staff has recommended approval of this. Have you read the conditions and agree with them? Yes. Okay. Is there any questions right now from the board on this? Well, I do have a question. I know it takes lead time to be included in these meetings, and I'm wondering, since you see all of these requirements, engineering, stormwater, remeasuring the spaces, there's a lot of housekeeping issues here and during the past month while you're waiting to come here what have you done towards getting these resolved have you hired an engineer to work on this on the stormwater i am an engineer sir oh well excuse me that's all right what i was hoping to see is more um accurate information about a plan to satisfy these problems well i I measured it and I went out and I walked it with the gentleman that I have here to come to me and I drew up the plan and I consulted with engineers from the Department of Highway. They gave me some of the drawings to go by, and I looked at my specifications and did the best I could as an engineer to put down on paper the accurate condition of what was there. Went there and looked at it, and I felt that what I put down there accurately displays what's there. Have you done anything since it's been brought to your attention that you have shortcomings? sir I if you mean the one objection that I discussed before this meeting with the gentleman I have no objection to what he is proposing which is to extend the curb a little bit farther to ensure that no water will go on his property. Well, I'm not sure that that would solve the entire problem. They're talking about some type of stormwater study that would look at your entire property and everyone downstream from you. I don't think that the staff is recommending a definitive length of curbing to solve all of that. Well, I was under the impression that the situation we were asked to address was as is shown on the drawing. And the other part of the property that has been there and draining as it has been draining for over 20, 30, or 40, or 50 years was okay. Now, there may be more requirements about what goes on on the other side, but I didn't think we were asked to do what is on the other side of that drawing that I show there with the errors coming this way. I could be wrong. Well, I think that the question that I was, maybe the subtlety of my question was, have Have you worked hard in the last month on the problems about the size of the spaces, the maneuvering areas that are required, and all the water issues? And this recommendation for approval seems to be with the idea that we would give you this approval today and you would work on it to work to solve these problems in the near future. But the fact that you haven't worked on them in this period of time leading up to this hearing makes me think that there could be a lot of confusion over what might be required by you and the expense may be high and this could drag on forever and that's why i'm sort of worried about giving approval today well i don't know how to exactly answer your question but i was under under the impression when I went there and took my time as requested by these gentlemen and the church to look at the problem and hear what the complaints were about this drainage, I felt that what I did would solve that drainage problem. And with my background in that, I see no reason why I shouldn't. And I would be glad to have someone give me some more guidance, instruction, and information along that line, and I will gladly take that and I will gladly try to comply. May I ask the question of water and building, please? How much have you all been involved in this project, if any? I guess it was probably around mid to late July when I met these gentlemen on site to look at the situation. And we discussed several various methods that could be used to mitigate some of the stormwater problems. I haven't seen a final design or anything of that nature as far as what they have ultimately proposed. but the curve that he's showing on the drawing was one of the things that we discussed and then a small retention basin below the parking where the grass area is were some of the things that we discussed and as I just from our initial discussions that sounded as if that would be acceptable to engineering but we haven't seen any final plan yet but the concept seems like it would be reasonable. May I add something, please, sir? May I add something? Yes, go ahead. If you look on the drawing, you'll see the curve that that gentleman spoke about that we discussed. And right in the bottom part where it says existing trees and grass area, you'll see some errors. we intended to have that be the area of the kind of a holding area for that water. And, of course, there's a steep hillside there, so we intend to just make that small diversion-type structure go across the bottom of that property. And in stretching totally across the bottom of it, It will give the water a chance to soak in and go down into the ground like it has since time began on that little hillside. I understand what you're telling me. I think the rest of this board understands that. But what about you? Are you involved in this, any? I think our office has been involved for three or four months just attempting to get them in here to the board. I think a first contact was probably made back as far as May. I was actually asked by one of the inspectors today if they were on the docket because it had been three months since they'd made contact. Depending what the opposition has to say in here, in your opinion, are they ready to move with this, or is there things that they need to do before they come before this board to get approval relative to because I understand what you're saying relative to your the trees and things of this nature but from an architectural standpoint it doesn't seem to me like this is going to satisfy the individuals that are going to complain and I'd much rather you be in complete alliance with what you're trying to do from these two individuals standpoint rather than to put this board in a position where we're going to give you approval of something that has not been completed. What is your feeling about that? I believe this board should look at it as though it were nonexistent and just a proposal because at this point they can't use it and get approved until they have to meet all the requirements of engineering and the landscape and all this other stuff. So they still have to go through the hoops. it's just a comfort factor of whether or not you feel they need the parking lot okay thank you mr. Hume mr. Thomas let me or let us have a chance to hear from the opposition at this point and we'll get you back and continue continue on yes please come forward my name is gay Granville Hoffman I live at 5014 Old Versailles Road and I own the property at 4331 New Vine Lane and the property at on Stone Tavern I don't believe from looking at the proposal that we've got here that the a six inch curb will eliminate the problem as it is now the water just rushes down stone tavern hits old Versailles Road runs down Pinkert Pike runs down Pinkert Pike runs down old Versailles Road it's like a river it's also running onto mr. Beatty's property and and corroding his foundation of his new house I if you look at the parking lot itself it's probably I don't know 10 or 15,000 square feet it's slanted at an angle and then slanted again at an angle so it's always going downhill I believe that if we have a good rain it's going to rain hard hit that six inch curb and keep going right over the top of it I don't think that'll stop it if you build a higher curb I'm afraid that it's going to channel all of that water down and if you have a retention basin maybe that will eliminate the problem but it will push the water right down onto the old versailles road and it'll come and the older sales road slants down so it's going to be the same problem where i'm going to have all of the debris and the rock and the erosion in my yard too so i i think that there need to be a few more things done before the parking lot doesn't dump so much water. There was, I've got pictures of what it used to look like and what it looks like now that I got off of Google Space and there was a house there with a good sizable amount of ground. It's I think three different residential areas. That was all just grass and trees and the water absorbed that so we didn't have this issue now it's just flat surface that's just I mean it's like you know a river so I I just think that there need to be other things done so that it will stop the erosion and and the flow of water thank you miss Hoffman could you show us where do you live in relation I live on old Versailles Road let me see if I can the church miss Hoffman yes sir if you could turn around and point to the one but directly behind you here. This is Toronto's house. There's an old stone house right here. I live across the street from the old stone house. I also own this house that goes clear back in here. And I own this piece of property right here. Okay. Thank you. And it's affecting the properties. The properties, it is not affecting the property at 4331, which is in front of the dining area, the little house, or the little, it used to be an old school house. The old parking lot is not an issue at all. But they did expand the area between the dining area and the church and made it a little wider so more cars could get through. So then that means that if you're going to put a curb, you're going to have to go the whole amount of space that the railing is. So they are using the parking lot right now, aren't they? Yes, sir. And they can continue to use the parking lot right now, can't they? Sure. And so I guess what I'm getting to is to try to help them to get this solved by getting to the right people, give them some direction that's where they need to go. I'm not trying to have a fight with New Vine Baptist Church. I certainly want to be a good neighbor. I certainly do. But the amount of water that's coming off that hill is a lot. It's a lot. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Hello. I'm Timothy Webb Beatty. I live at 5041 Old Versales Road, the house that you can see to the right of the parking lot. I've talked with Mr. Thomas prior to this, and my main question has been addressed, and that was extending the curb. I thought the main problem area was, for me, the foreseen problem area was right in front of the church, and there is a large amount of water that comes down, and the neighbors come to me because I bought the property and since made improvements. So I kind of feel like they were blaming me for making the improvements on the property. So where I see the most problem is in front of the church and Mr. Thomas said that they would indeed extend the curb area to that. I don't know if the 6 inch curb is going to meet the requirements. It may or may not. My point is, I'm sorry. Mr. Brady, when you say in front of the church, were you talking about looking at that picture most of that parking lot? Okay, this is my house here. And my property comes up to here and comes back down and makes a pie shape. Now in this area right here this is the new addition of the parking lot and this is the old, but they did widen this a little bit here. It just just creates a funnel right down through here and it comes across this way and then comes out onto the road. There is water coming down through here I don't see any damage from it as of yet but you know maybe in the years as of right now I don't see any damage but I think what Gay was saying was she was a little worried about here the water building up with this curb and then rushing down this hill and coming down the road and creating a bigger problem I can't answer that but just what I see as of now the issue is here I have graded my yard several different times trying to get to grass to grow and after the rain it just washes it out now maybe if I can ever get grass to hold you know it would probably slow it down somewhat but I can't I can't get that to go yeah yes sir mr. Beatty you're saying you're seeing some water come off that hillside now towards your house no effects but other than grass is is that runoff off of the parking lot or is it just rainwater that's hitting the hillside behind your house there's not much hillside behind my house maybe from my property to theirs it's probably maybe three or four feet okay and then it does slope down into my yard but for the amount of water that comes through you're not going to get that much from that small amount the the if i if i remember right you're sitting below the parking lot yes okay i have all right no that's okay i'm just just trying to get a handle on everything Okay, any other questions? No, if not, thank you. Okay, thanks. Mr. Thomas? Yes, sir. Any questions for Mr. Thomas at the moment? No, I have one. The picture that's shown right there, are they curbing there now? I did not remember any I don't think there is a curbing there now Am I right gentlemen? There is no curbing there now Your plans are to put curbing there between the parking lot and Mr. Beatty's house? Yes, sir Okay How far is it going to come down on this end on the running parallel to the New Vine? Is it Old Vine? New Vine Lane We were planning to come down to and as I told Mr. Beatty before the meeting here, we'll come down the necessary distance to stop that water from coming in his yard. And on my drawing, it has a knot to scale. And I did that purposely so we could run that curbing on far enough to degrade all water away. And of course, in dealing with drainage, you deal with drainage with the thought in mind that you deal with a certain reasonable storm. You can get enough rain at any given time to flood the whole world like once happened. But we usually as engineers design for something like a 10, 25, or in doing dams like I do for the federal government, we may go up to a 50 or 100 year storm. But for generally speaking in situations like this, the 10 to 25 year storm is what we design for. And that's what I try to do. But we will certainly build that curb there. And if the folks think that a six inch is not available or not big enough for the job, I can certainly direct the contractors to build it higher for us. And we can have a drawing that show that instead of six inches, we can put it higher eight inches or 10 inches or whatever, such that people will be comfortable with. We don't want to do anything to cause anybody downstream to feel badly or to have water in the yard. We know that. And we will try to do what we can to make sure people are comfortable with our parking area. Excuse me just a minute. Yes, sir. I'd just like to mention to the applicant that additional curbing may also be required by the Division of Traffic Engineering for safety purposes. That would be fine. So before any type of work is done, I think we're going to need a drawing that shows the landscaping, the circulation aisles, the engineering concerns, everything together. Make sure that you don't do one thing that doesn't satisfy the other government entities because all of that will be required before you'll be able to get a building permit. We will certainly do that. I have no problem with that. You gentlemen tell me exactly what you want, and we will put it down. And we will let a contract to show those things and make sure that it is done just as you all requires to do. Thank you, Mr. Gallimore. Thank you, Mr. Thomas. I was just going to point out, I think, you know, we've been talking about water and water runoff. I think there are other issues here as far as striping on the parking lot and landscaping and also some sort of car stops, wheel stops, or curbing of some sort. Yes, sir? Yeah, my thought would be to ask for continuance on this to allow Mr. Thomas to work with Mr. Brock, Mr. Gallimore, and Mr. Hume if needed and come back to us with a plan as to exactly what's going to take place. Is the applicant agreeable to continuing this while a plan is put together? Yes, sir. Then if the chair would allow, I'd like to make a motion. Mr. Marks, just a second. Mr. Marks, you? You know, we wrestled with this. You know, we decided, you know, what's the best way we can get this fixed as fast as possible, and we didn't want to get hung up in a postponement mode. But I mean this is fine a continuance, but we recommend it be done three months from today So if things gets continued another month before you all decide that's going to get reduced to two months In my mind, so I just want to make that clear to these folks so they know they're really under the gun to get this done fast right but fast Because the rainy season is coming In October November, so I mean in the alternative If could we approve it but subject to a condition of being reviewed in three months and if in three months the problems aren't resolved, come back and consider withdrawing or, you know, terminating the conditional use as another one and then telling them if they don't resolve things. Yeah, it's just a matter of getting these folks motivated to get it fixed fast. I agree with the motivation aspect of it, but my purpose is to making sure that they it right the first time where they don't have to come back before us for questions down the road. And I think they understand what we're trying to say here. And I think as long as they're able to use the parking lot right now, it's the things that are surrounding the parking lot that seems to be the issue. And I think the continuance is merited. And I think these – water and engineering is more willing to help you to get this solved where it may not take three months. It may take less than that. But I just think that to give you an approval on a six-month basis and you come back and you haven't done anything with it, it just means that you're not going to be approved and then you'll have to reapply, and then that's going to be a little tough to get done. And as much as I think what you're trying to do is worthy, I just think there needs to be some more thought put to it for you so that you don't have the complaints that we have from your neighbors right now. I think my main point was if it does get continued, then if, for example, you all approve it next month because they have sufficient detail on their plan, then I would recommend that condition about when they have to be totally done with the redoing things be two months, not three months. I don't have a problem with that. I don't think this board knows. And there's nothing wrong with them lining up subcontractors while they're working on the plan. This needs to be done before winter. I would agree. So, is there a motion? So I'd like to make a motion. Go right ahead, Mr. Briggs. I'd like to move that we continue C-2008-73, the New Vine Baptist Church, continue this hearing to next month, September 26th, allow the applicant time to prepare and to present to the board details of a parking lot configuration satisfactory to traffic engineering and to present a final drainage plan with details of the stormwater management and the facilities to satisfy the division of engineering all right sir Jim don't forget the landscape problems too part of the parking lot configuration would require landscaping requirements now may i ask a question please sir sure tell me exactly what you mean by landscaping requirements for the parking lot or is it the parking lot area adjacent be a little bit more explanative sir please there are requirements for landscaping around a parking lot where it's adjacent to residential zone yes and when you work out the details of your parking configuration with traffic engineering they can help you to understand the landscaping requirements all right sir I'll second motion has been made and seconded for continuance at this point for 30 days until September 26th of C2008-73 W.D. Thomas and Newfoundland Baptist Church. There was a second. If there's no further questions, all those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Mr. Thomas, I would suggest that you talk with these gentlemen today or first thing Monday so that you all can get this thing put in order, okay? Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Stout. I was going to suggest you set up camp in one of their offices. I believe that takes care of everything as far as what was on the agenda for today. Mrs. Bell never did not arrive. I would specifically like to take this opportunity to thank her for her eight years of service. She was very diligent and very thoughtful each and every time and looked at each case that she heard in a very sincere manner, even to the point of not just going by but going by late at night if it warranted it to see exactly the environment and the atmosphere that was going on. time, especially eight years, should be commended. I'm not sure what will take place at this point if we'll hold this for another month to try and give it to her at that time. I'm sure we'll try and contact her and see if she can attend a future meeting of the board. Okay. All right. Thank you. Does the staff or board have anything else that needs to be brought up mr. chair I just like to know that I will be missing in September 26 meeting I will be out of state on business okay so noted any building mr. Hume mr. Brock mr. Gallimore anything no We're good. Thanks for your service. Thank you. If there's no other items for discussion, I'll adjourn this meeting. Good job. Thank you.