Thank you. We are now ready to convene the, uh, work session that was, uh, scheduled for this afternoon as well. The first item on the work session agenda is public comment on issues that are on today's agenda. Does anyone wish to address the council? Seeing none, we'll move ahead to, um, the approval of the docket. Is there a motion? Second. We have a motion by Council Member James, second by Council Member Gordon to approve the docket. I, I am, uh, advised on, uh, a couple of issues. We need to determine whether we will be having a public hearing. Mayor. Council Member Stennet. Move to place on the docket number 32 without a public hearing. Second. Uh, Council Member... Mr. Mayor, I'm the attorney on that, and I would like to request a public hearing on behalf of the applicant. That was a split recommendation from the Planning Commission, and we would like to have a public hearing on that. Okay. The motion by Council Member Stennet is to conduct, uh, is, is to not conduct a public hearing on item number 32. That was seconded by Council Member Gordon. Is there any discussion? I see none. Those then in favor of amending the docket in order to place item number 32 on the docket without a public hearing, please indicate by saying aye. Those no? Now, let's see if sh- uh, let's vote. Those in favor, please indicate by voting aye electronically. Those opposed, vote nay electronically. The mo- the motion is to put item 32 on the docket without a public hearing. I know. If... Let's see. Council Members Lane and Martin. All right, that motion fails. I suppose, um, necessary to have a motion to put it on with a public hearing. Madam Clerk? Didn't hear what- Mayor, I'll make a motion to put it on with a, with a public hearing. Second. I have a motion by Council Member Ellinger and a second by Council Member Gordon to put item 32 on with a public hearing. Those in favor, please indicate... Pardon me? Mayor, I have checked on a date- Okay. ... and the only available date to meet the notice and the timing requirements is August 13th. This will be a brief hearing, uh, so I think we can do it at your regular business. I'd like to say for the record, I don't recall an instance when an applicant has ever come and asked for a public hearing when their application's been turned down, that this council has refused an applicant to have a public hearing. So, I appreciate the opportunity to speak. I think it's just a matter of fairness to let this applicant have a public hearing. I think that's where we're headed. It's just a question of scheduling now. And, um, I guess, um, the motion is to have a public hearing- Mayor, I'll, I'll amend my motion, or add to it, I guess, that we, we have a public hearing on the 13th of August at eight o'clock. All right. Um, Council Member Gordon, do you, uh- I will second, but I'm not able to stay that night. But I'll second it. All right. Since the mover and the seconder have both agreed, uh, we'll entertain that as a friendly amendment. The motion now is to have a public hearing on item number 32 at eight o'clock on April 13th. Any discussion? All in favor, please indicate by saying aye. Oppose, no. Motion carries. Okay. Thank you. All right. Um, Madam Clerk, I believe that's the only one. That is correct. The others- I, I move to place- Pardon me, Madam Clerk. The other is a text amendment, and it does not require a motion. Oh, okay. All right. Any other... Council Member Stennet. Hel- however, in reference to number 33, um, I, I think this body needs a, a presentation that was given at Planning Commission so all the public can see exactly what we're changing there. 'Cause there, there are some good things in there, and I think it, it would do us well to have a, before we have second reading on this ordinance, between now and the end of the year, or fiscal, or before we go on break to have a public, uh, presentation on number 33, Mayor. So, if we could schedule that. Mr. Green, if you'd make arrangements, um, for us to do that. I suppose either next Tuesday or the following Tuesday, those would be the last two work sessions- That'd be great. Thanks, Mayor. ... before the break. All right. The, the, um, motion on the floor is to prove the docket is now amended. Is there any discussion? Council Member Lane? Uh, would it be appropriate for me to add an item on the docket this time? It would. Okay. I move to place on the docket for Thursday, June 25th, 2009, a resolution authorizing and directing the mayor on behalf of the Irwin County Government to execute a partial release of easement, releasing a portion of a force main sewer easement on property located at Polo Club Center 6409 through 6413 Polo Club Lane and no cost to the Irwin County Government. So moved. Council Member Lane has moved that we add that docket to the item, to the, uh, that, that item to the docket. Council Member Crosby has seconded it. Any discussion? All in favor of adding that item to the docket, please indicate by saying aye. Aye. Oppose, no? Motion carries. Council Member - Thank you, Mayor. Um, I move to place on the docket for the Thursday, 20, uh, June 25th meeting, a resolution suspending the voting power of the Corridors Committee until such time as an ordinance has been passed by the Urban County Council establishing the Corridors Commission. Second. Second. Council Member Feigl has, uh, moved to add that item to the docket. Council Member Blues has seconded. Any discussion? All in favor of adding that item to the June 25th docket, please indicate by saying aye. Aye. Oppose, no? Motion carries. Any further discussion on the docket as now amended? Then those in favor of approving the docket as amended, please indicate by saying aye. Aye. Oppose, no? Motion carries. We have a summary to approve. Is there a motion? Move approval. Second. Council Member Crosby has moved to approve the summary of June 16th. Council Member Gordon has seconded that motion. Any discussion? All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Oppose, no? Motion carries. We're now down to budget amendments. Do I hear a motion? Move approval, Mayor. Council Member Beard has moved the approval of the budget amendments. Council Member Meyers has seconded that motion. Any discussion? All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Oppose, no? Motion carries. Uh, the new business items are next. Move approval. Second. Council Member Stennet has moved approval of the new business items. Council Member Hinson has seconded that motion. Any discussion? Council Member Stennet? Thank you. I have a question on A. I see, uh, Commissioner Cole in the building. Um, these were for properties that we purchased, um, a while back for the extension of Rose Street project. Just curious, with the Lyric Theatre Project being on our docket today, as well as the needs at the coroner's office, why aren't we holding onto this property for possible use of parking, surface parking, for the Lyric Theatre Project and/or moving the coroner's office to a better facility? I'm just curious about why we're going ahead and selling these lots in an area when we possibly could utilize some of that space. Council Members- Have we looked at... Yeah. ... Stennet, do you have a, a diagram that shows those lots? I do. It's in the packet. They're, they're, they're actually just small parcels of lots. They, um, would not be, be ver- very well suited for, um, much parking or, um, an- another building. It's just actually one small lot and a, a couple slivers of lots. Well, how many square feet total was that? Do you remember? How- How many square feet total? Let's see, I don't know. It's kind of a triangle or a, like, a boomerang shape. Yeah. It ju- There wasn't a square footage in there. I guess that's what I was curious about, how many, I mean, can we... R- Rick Caldwell's here. Have you- He may have that number. I don't have that in front of me, of the square footage. Here. Mayor, may I add something to this? Yes. Council Member James. Um, these properties are within the district that I represent, and I did do a walkthrough, um, with the folks from the city, and it, it's not any type of... It is not factored into... I'll put it this way. It is not anything that would be, um, a usable parking area for the, for the Lyric. Um, and the presentation that you'll see, um, on the 30th shows where the party, parking is that we've allocated for the Lyric. So we, we feel like that we have the, we have the adequacy for the parking needed, but this area is not... It's, one's a sliver, like a utility strip. Um, another is a, a little triangular piece. It's not anything- Right. ... that would be helpful. Okay. Because we'll try to go by there and get a, a sense of it. It's hard to, to look at these properties from- Yeah. It, it, there really, uh, there isn't a whole lot there. It's a total square footage of about, um, 3600. Okay, 3602. Yeah. Okay, very good. Thank you for that. I appreciate the explanation. And then on, let's see, on H, Mayor, um, I don't see, uh, Joe here on the bridge. The, uh, compliance for bridges, do we have a listing of all the bridges in Fayette County that we, that we have, and they're all up to compliance? I know last year with the Minnesota issue, um, uh, this, this was a hot topic. Just wanna make sure we have that on file and it's accessible to the public if anyone wants to access that manual to, to see those bridges. I'll ask Commissioner Webb if he's in a position to address that. I think there's some overlap with the, um, State Department of Highways, but, uh, I'll let Commissioner Webb speak to that issue. Uh, I don't know whether we have that complete list available, but I can check and bring it back and make you aware of it. I think it'd be good for citizens to be able to access that and, and, and for the council to see any bridges even in our district to make sure it is up to standards, and if it's not, what's being done to fix them. I'll get that listing for you. Very good. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you. Any further discussion on the new business items? Seeing none, we'll proceed to vote. Those in favor of approving the new business items, please indicate by saying aye. Aye. Oppose, no? The motion carries. We're now ready for the Water Resources Oversight Committee. I did not receive that packet in my materials. Um, if there is an extra. Thank you. Thanks. Council Member Blues, are you leading this discussion? Thank you, Mayor. Thanks. Um, I'm assuming that all council members have, uh, have received the, uh, the packet. If not, I have a few extras here and it includes the minutes of the four, uh, uh, four meetings that the Water Resources Oversight Committee has held since the beginning of the year, all handouts that have come to the committee, and a copy of the first, uh, consent decree quarterly report, uh, for the first quarter of, of '09. The... As you know, the, uh, the Water Resources Oversight, uh, Committee, also known as ROCK, uh, at its, uh, at its first meeting as a, as a merged, uh, committee of the former sanitary sewers and Stormwater Oversight Committees, uh, we, uh, uh, determined on a, uh, uh, on a mission statement for, for the, uh, for the committee, which is to conduct legislative review and provide guidance and legislative direction for all freshwater issues affecting the citizens of Fayette County, including implementation of Lexington's EPA consent decree and its status, status of compliance with the Clean Water Act. Uh, the voting members of the committee as it, uh, as it's now, uh, constituted are Vice Mayor Gray, Council Members Beard, Feigel, Gorton, Henson, Stinnett as the vice chair, and myself as, as the chair. The list of non-voting LFUC staff members, uh, of the committee is in the packet. Early on, we determined on a, a kind of standard agenda format, which includes a number of, of, uh, of items, uh, that would be reported to us in our monthly meetings. Uh, they include the budget and financial reports, construction project status, ongoing, upcoming, and, and, and future consent decree status, stormwater issues to include flooding, uh, the Division of Water Quality Director's Report and, uh, and public comment. The committee has met four times in February, March, May, and June. Uh, the minutes of those four meetings are in the packet. I should note that the May and June minutes have not yet been approved by the committee. At our most recent meeting, June 16th, a week ago, uh, Charlie Martin previewed and expanded upon that same day work session presentation on upcoming consent decree required ordinance revisions, which will soon be coming to the council. Director Martin also brought the committee up to date on our action item list, which also was included in the 6:16 minutes. Following all future, uh, ROCK meetings, I will report on important informational content and any actions recommended to our divisions and or to the council. Also in this packet, you will see, as I said, copies of all our handouts, uh, which include an omnibus list of active stormwater projects, consent decree deadlines to be met, consent decree deadlines that ha- that have been met, and water quality management fee draft implementation schedule. Uh, along with, as I mentioned earlier, the, uh, consent decree quarterly report for the first three months of, of this year. Uh, so I think we've provided... I know that council members, uh, in the upcoming recess will be casting about for material to read, and I think we've, we've provided you with, uh, uh, with an hour or two of, uh, of materials. Uh, and all council members, of course, are cordially invited and encouraged to attend our monthly meetings, especially if you have issues within your... w- w- within your districts that, uh, that you would like immediate updates on from members of the committee or from the, uh, the staff. Our next meeting, write this down, 11:30 AM Tuesday, August 25th. Thank you, Mayor. That's my report. Are there any questions? Any questions for Council Member Blues? Vice Mayor Gray? It's really not a question, just to acknowledge the hard work of Georgetta too, right? Because it was hard to get you to chair this- I should have mentioned that, that I did not- Mm-hmm. ... do this, uh- Right. Confessions, true confessions. ... all by myself and, and, uh, and, and- It was hard to get you to chair this, so we know her, her heavy lifting behind the curtains. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Thank you very much. I think we're now ready for the, uh, planning committee report. Council Member Gorton. Thank you, Mayor. Yes, uh, Council Member Blues, you and your aide, ROCK. Uh, the planning committee met on June the 16th, and the first item of business was a report on the Loudoun Avenue widening project, and that project is almost finished. They're... They still have the punch list and one, um- ... item to, uh, clear up having to do with the, uh, entrance wall or, uh, gate. Eh, the second item was the Downtown Master Plan, and we had a lengthy discussion. It was very healthy discussion, I thought. Um, we looked at, um, as you all know, the Downtown Master Plan has 16 recommendations in it , and, um, uh, there was a good bit of discussion about, um, what to do with the Downtown Master Plan. It was accepted and, um, approved by the Planning Commission in 2007 and, uh, was originally brought forward by the Downtown Development Authority. Um, our packet included the 16 recommendations and the discussion centered around, uh, whether to adopt the Downtown Master Plan or not. And some of the points that were mentioned were that, uh, it is a visionary concept and not an action plan. Um, Council Member James brought forward copies of Article 40, which actually, uh, creates the Downtown Development Authority, and we looked at that in relation to what the Downtown Development Authority's, um, actual authority , uh, is. And in there, it talked about the Downtown Development Authority, um, using urban county government plans and, uh, small area plans and such t- to do their work. Um, Council Member Blues mentioned that adoption of the Downtown Master Plan would provide the council with goals and directions without mandating that the council adopt each individual recommendation. Um, and, uh, so the ultimate, uh, upshot of this discussion was that the motion was made by Council Member Lawless to move forward to the full council a request to adopt the Downtown Master Plan, and this is coming to the council as a motion, um, not to adopt the 16 recommendations, but to adopt the master plan as a concept. So moved. I have a motion by Council Member Borton and a second by Council Member Blues to adopt the, uh, master plan. Um, I s- I suppose procedurally, we would need to place on the docket a resolution adopting the master plan, correct? So we'll form the motion in that fashion. Any discussion? Council Member, uh, James? Thank you, Mayor. Just, um, I think this is related to the motion, but the discussion that Council Member Gordon talked about with the DDA and their authority, it is now an inter-governmental, and will be discussed on, um, the 30th, on June 30th. Thank you. Uh, Council Member Lane. If, if I understand the motion correctly, we want to adopt the Downtown Master Plan, is that correct? Uh, yes, as a conceptual plan and then each individual recommendation would come forward, just like, for instance, the parking, creating the parking authority- Right. ... is one of the recommendations and it came forward to the council to create that. And so each one would come forward for discussion and vote and- Right. ... all of that. Well, I was just gonna suggest, y- you know, I may be a little bit up on the curve on the master plan, but many of the people in our community are not, that perhaps, uh, at the time we take this under consideration, maybe we should have a overview of the plan submitted so it could go on to GTV3 and people could see it- Mm. ... in the community, um, if that wouldn't be too much of trouble. I think that's a great idea. Okay. Thank you. So if I'm, uh... to follow up on, on that idea for just a moment, our motion, if approved, would wind up having a resolution on the docket for the 25th for first Reading, which means we'd have second reading on July 2nd. And that being the case, we'd need to work in a presentation next week, right? At the, uh, at the work session. Mm-hmm. So, Mr. Green- Yes sir. ... if you would try to, uh, get the Downtown Master Plan presentation lined up for us for next, next Tuesday, please. Vice Mayor Gray. Yeah, I- This, uh, my comment relates to that, um. Council Member Beard, in the committee meeting, suggested we, uh, a workshop for the council to reacquaint us with the plan as well and to, um, to look forward, um, terms of when a review, for example, would be appropriate. So we, we also discussed setting a time for a workshop- For the council. ... for the council, right? Right. We did, I think Council Member Lane was addressing something that could be on TV that- Right. ... the public could see. Different, yeah. Little bit, yeah. Thank you, Mayor. Council Member Lawless. Um, yes, I made that motion in the planning, uh- ... um, committee meeting that the Downtown Master Plan will be a- a hopefully a living, breathing document that is updated as we go forward, but conceptually gives us guidance as to how we want to- our downtown to look in the future and for decades to come. Thank you. Thank you. Council Member Beard. I passed out to some of you, and, um, I'll read this for the rest of you all's, um, benefit, and I'll have copies available to those who didn't reach a- receive one. Uh, this comes from the New Urban News newsletter. It's a lot of newses in there, but anyway. Um, after five years, Dheeru Thadhani, I believe, thank you Harold, disbanded the Washington DC Town Planning Studio of Ayers Saint Gross, who was the company that, uh, was engaged to do our Downtown Master Plan, explaining that the firm no longer supports his approach to traditional town planning. The studio won four CNU Charter Awards and three AIA Chapter Awards. "Everyone has left except for two from my studio who have been absorbed into other studios," Thadhani said. Thadhani said he will continue to consult on national and international planning and architectural projects. Um, I think we need to find out something about what's behind all of this and why Ayers Saint Gross, um, feels, uh, that they no longer support his concepts before we jump in and adopt his concepts. Thank you. Would you like for that to be a part of the presentation next week? Uh, I- I think so, if we can find- if we can get- get a hold of- uh, of the right people to find out the answers to that. All right. Um, Mr. Green, if you'll add that to the list of things to be discussed during the presentation next week, I'd appreciate it. Thank you, Mayor. All right. Anything further? Then the motion that's currently on the floor is that we place on the docket for the June 25th council meeting, a resolution adopting the Downtown Master Plan as a conceptual plan. Those in favor of that motion, please indicate by saying, "Aye." Aye. Opposed, "No." Motion- motion carries. Um, and why don't we go ahead and vote electronically so that we'll have a record of that for the, uh, clerk? Thank you. The motion carries by a vote of 11 to 4. Uh, Council Member Gordon. Thank you, Mayor. Um, two more things. The committee removed the extended stay zoning ordinance text amendment from, uh, the issues in committee at the, uh, with the approval of Council Member Lane, who put it into committee. And then, we also announced that the Joint Planning Commission Planning Committee workshop will be June 30th at 9:00 AM at the library. And the two items that will be discussed at our workshop are, first of all, uh, Bob Wiseman from UK will be coming and we will having- we will be having a discussion of the, uh, s- part of the Limestone Corridor in conjunction with UK and what some of its plans and visions are. And then secondly, we're going to have a presentation, uh, by our planning folks on form-based zoning, which, uh, is one of the master plan recommendations. So I would recommend that all council members who are interested in that specific recommendation, if you could find the time on June 30th to join us, we would welcome you. Thank you, Mayor. That concludes my report. Thank you. Any questions for Council Member Gordon? Seeing none, we'll... Yeah. Oh, Council Member Gor- Martin. Thank you, Mayor. Would, uh, Council Member Gordon give us the- the time again and the place? Uh, it's June 30th from 9:00 to 11:00 on the fourth floor of Central Library. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, we'll now move on to the presentation on the Downtown Lexington Building Inventory. And I'd like for Betty Kerr, who is our Director of Historic Preservation to step to the podium. Good afternoon. As many of you know, uh, Mayor Newberry had requested that the Division of Historic Preservation, uh, research and prepare an inventory of buildings in our downtown core area. Um, and we did that, including all the parcels, actually, in the downtown area. And if I can go forward there, uh, the study area that we agreed upon, um, we started with a broader area and then reduced down to make this the focus area, uh, was High Street on the south and 2nd Street on the north, which, of course, part of it becomes Constitution Street. And then, um, on the East Elm Tree Lane, and then on the West, um, Newtown, excuse me, Jefferson Street. Within this, there are about 34 blocks. And in terms of an inventory process, we used criteria... ... that's, um, predicated on what are the federal standards in measuring, um, historic buildings and, uh, eligibility for National Register, and survey processes, and so forth. These are standards, uh, the philosophies of which have been in place, um, for many years, uh, and used throughout the, communities throughout the country. Um, the, th- three of the five categories are specific to, um, historic structures. The fourth category, the non-contributing also may con- include an historic structure along the way, uh, but tends to be ones that have been dramatically altered. But to give you just a quick overview, I thought I'd, uh, go quickly through these standards for you, starting with the highest ranking and working our way, uh, down. The, uh, outstanding ones as you see, and, and I'm assuming, I'm hoping that you all, you all received a copy of the full study in your, um, boxes at the council office, uh, back, uh, around May 12th or 13th. Re- probably the 13th. And I'm hoping you've had an opportunity to look at those. Um, but in that, the outstanding ones, they are, uh, buildings that are architecturally and historically important that are particularly intact architecturally, that they have not had, uh, any substantive or alteration. They may have some very minor alteration, but they are, uh, particularly noticeable for how intact they are architecturally. Significant buildings also are of importance, uh, architecturally and historically. Um, they retain their most important design features, they contribute to the immediate area and to the downtown as a whole. Um, they may have some alterations, particularly this is not uncommon on storefronts in our downtown core, um, but overall, they still retain their integrity, uh, architecturally, and have their histo- historic significance as well. Um, contributing buildings are ones that may have had some substantive alteration, much of which is often reversible. One of the kind of measures you look at in terms of standards and weighing historic properties is, have they been altered beyond, uh, retrieval, so to speak, in terms of what was their architectural s- uh, intended design and what has happened to it over the years. I would note that all historic buildings just about have certainly had some ch- amount of change over the years, uh, some of which those changes in their own right are very significant as well. Additions, um, enlargements, where over time, uh, these two or three perhaps, uh, eras of change have all come together to still be a very significant historic building. Sometimes, however, historic buildings have change made that maybe a rear addition or something that is not so significant and, um, maybe where there's room for, uh, removal of that and construction of something new. Uh, certainly what's built in those places of those pieces and so forth, it's very important how they're handled, uh, design, mass and scale and so forth, but, um, there's probably, well, there might be some building or, in the nation that hasn't had some alteration, but that would be very unusual. So, uh, buildings are a living breathing thing tied to people's needs and, and, uh, community's needs and lifestyles. And so they reflect that and often are significant for having reflected that, uh, and sometimes have had kind of a, a poor treatment. Um, so, eh, with your contributing level, these are buildings that still in their mass and form are, uh, representative of their era and their time and play a role in, in the block that they're in or the area that they're in, but they may not be particularly intact in terms of their architectural elements, their window openings, their doors, that kind of thing. Then non-contributing, these are buildings which have been either very dramatically altered and hence have lost their integrity, um, or, uh, by the nature of their design approach in the first place, uh, were not significant to start. And then post-1965, these are buildings that, just as it says, uh, were constructed after 1965. The federal standards for the National Register of Historic Places, buildings have to be 50 years old or older, and while the 1965 date is not literal to the 50-year window, it's quite close and it seemed to be a good spot to, to round off for that. Um, very rarely, there are situations that a building less than 50 years old can be eligible for and listed on the National Register, but, um, something like NASA in Florida, part of their property has been put on the National Register, uh, where particularly historic events have happened, sometimes less than 50 years are put on the National Register. But for the most part, um, it is the rule of thumb to not have for eligibility standards less than 50-year-old buildings. Having said that, I thought I'd give you just a, a brief overview. And, and you'll see the samples I've brought, they're very randomly chosen, there's no magic to why, um, the blocks that I've brought to highlight are, are illustrated today and are not. Um, but just wanted to give you some feel for how the inventory works. Uh, it's done and keyed by blocks and, uh, you'll see that, uh, each block obviously is given a number, and then, uh, within that, the property address serves as the, um, the, uh, orientation of what property is being discussed. We did include in this, in the inventory, um, parking lots. We accounted for every parcel so you will find that, um, in addition to structures, we did account for the fact things are parking lots or vacant lots, if that's the case. Um, for example, the Short, 2nd, Sonja and Bruce- This block, uh, and we didn't include all the buildings in it for our random sample this afternoon, but this block is, includes, uh, buildings, St. Paul's Church, which you're all familiar with, I'm sure. One of the tallest buildings in the city, uh, for many, many, many years. Um, we've put the circa construction date right under the historic name and then the category. We considered this an outstanding building per the criteria, noted that it contributes to the character of the block and to the character of the downtown. And then we've put with each one, uh, one sentence kind of overview. Um, if the architect was known, we've told you that. Um, there's more could be done with, with that in terms of the architects. We have a lot of survey information about these that for, um, what is meant to be a baseline inventory, really we didn't, we tried to be very simple and have it very clear without tons of documentation information. But there is more on a number of these buildings, needless to say. We've tried to give a bit of an architectural description, three-bay, uh, brick, high Victorian style, tall church, uh, tower and steeple. I mean, a church, this is pretty self-explanatory when you look at its physical character. But, um, we tried on each property to give you some sense of what it consists of, and, um, then whether or not it's, um, within a historic district and National Register and that sort of thing. And we'll go into that in just a second. This is a residential building within the study area. This is 420 West 2nd Street, built by a gentleman named McMullen, and it's, uh, circa 19, excuse me, 1871. Als- it's a significant, uh, building in its categorization, also contributing to the character of the block and to the downtown. And then the same kind of rhythm, tell you who the architect is, what the architectural features are of the building, and that it is part of the North Side National Register District, as well as being, um, part of the local historic district of the North Side as well. Uh, Bruce Street is within this same block that we're talking about. Uh, obviously, it is what it is. It's a surface parking lot, and it would be considered non-contributing. But we wanted this inventory to be something that you could, uh, go to to say, "What's the identity of the things within this vicinity?" And with a very quick look, um, have information available to you. Uh, we're going to map this information, by the way, as well, a color-coded map that will be available as part of the finished document. Um, another block, this one Short, Broadway, Church, and Mill. Uh, West Short Street, a downtown commercial building, obviously, uh, in terms of its architectural character, built about 1895. Again, we've given historic name and level of, uh, per the criteria, a significant building, again, if, about contributors and, um, a bit about its architectural description. This is a building that also significant on, uh, the old Masonic Temple on North Broadway, and, uh, it is a significant building. You might have termed it an outstanding building except for its storefront alterations on the first floor. And it's not to say that those alterations aren't compatible. They're, it's a contemporary treatment. It had had several alterations over the years, which is, becomes evident through historic photographs. And so, um, there isn't, there is, uh, legitimacy in what's been done with this alteration, but it is not intact from as it was built. And so it would not be outstanding, but does meet the level relative to significant. And partly too because of the community nature of it being the Masonic Temple. It's part of the Broadway West Short Street, uh, National Register Historic District. Then another parking lot in that vicinity. Short, Corral, and, um, Martin Luther King area. This includes the Central Christian Church. We've put its initial construction era, and then it had a substantial remodeling after 1930, uh, about 1935. And it is, uh, architecturally and historically, an outstanding building. It's very, um, intact despite its having had the fire and alterations, interior more so than exterior. And, uh, tells you again it's designed by the Smith Brothers. Uh, something about the stone work, which is such a significant, um, uh, signature of its architectural elements. And, uh, the sanctuary and the chapel, uh, of all, they own other properties all under the umbrella of Central Christian, but the sanctuary and chapel are individually listed on the National Register. On Dewey Street, a residential building, the Cleburne Howard House, built about 1873. Dewey Street, we're all aware, a very significant, uh, street in the African American, uh, piece of the community and the community history at large, both in a residential sense and also becoming a hub of business sense too, depending on the era in which you're, um, focusing on with its history. It's a vernacular style residence, and one that is, um, uh, brick obviously, with having, uh, decorative shingle work and recessed doorway and so forth. It's a rather unusual house architecturally, and, um, so it is both, it is significant for both its architecture and for its history. And then a post-1965 building is part of this block, built in the 1980s. Everybody's familiar with it. Um, it is residential, uh, sort of a mid-rise, if you will, six-story building. There was no intent to evaluate those post-1965 structures in terms of levels of significance and so forth, partly tied to the 50-year, uh, old criteria that we've discussed. Um, and if there comes a time there's an interest in doing evaluation and furthering information, uh, relative to the more modern structures, certainly that can be done. But for this, uh, inventory's purpose, we decided to, um, just hold the line with noting its era and what it c- it is architecturally, uh, consists of. Main and Short Street area just west of Broadway. This includes residential and, uh, new builds in this particular block. The Robert King double house, a quite unusual house also in our downtown core. Um, it's a Greek revival in style and built in about 1836. ... tells you a bit about its, um, relationship in a building sense and its history sense with the other half of itself, if you will, the DoubleHouse. It's part of the Western Suburb Local Historic and National Register District. The Willcoxon Building, this is an apartment building built about 1925. Quite a nice example of its type and era, and, um, it's- is also, as was the previous building, in the two designated districts. Then new construction has been, um, uh, very appropriately happening in that vicinity. This is in circa 2007. We all know that, in that we all know of it being built. Um, but, uh, a piece that, uh... Part of this, the back piece of this project, was within one of the local overlays for design review and the Main Street front, shown here, uh, was not within the design review district, so an interesting split in that situation. Main Short, Mill, and Upper. This is, um, uh... Hmm, I'm a little bit off. The Cheapside is not within Main... Well, yes it would be. Main Short, Mill, and Upper. I'm forgetting. We're counting Cheapside... I had a little trouble with this when we were doing the study. Um, we decided to make Cheapside an inner street of that bigger block. Um, this Fayette Safety Vault Trust Company building is a magnificent building. I know everybody admires it. It's sort of a backdrop for Thursday Night Live and all the great things that happen down on Cheapside. Um, built about 1890, very intact. Its storefront has been altered. However, its alterations are quite appropriate. It's been altered several times over the years, and that's apparent from historic photographs. Again, giving you the architect. It's both within the, uh, downtown overlay design zone and the National Register District of the downtown, as is this building on Cheapside, 1950, Second National Bank. Um, people are a little surprised sometimes, if they're not particularly into architecture. They go, "That's a 1950 building?" It's, uh, very appropriately massed and scaled for the neighbors in which it was built between, and, um, so it really carries the rhythm of that whole stretch, even though most of its neighbors are considerably older than that. Then there's a post-1965 building that is, uh, at the corner of Main and Mill in this block. Same kind of information, obviously. And then, uh, Main Short, Lime, and Martin Luther King, uh, includes this wonderful, uh, again, an outstanding, as would be no surprise, uh, art deco style, the old Leisson Laundry building. Um, this is part of, uh, where the, uh, performance arts, uh, theater and so forth complex is, as you know, and- Ms. Kerr? Yes? The 15-minute time- Okay. ... period has expired. If you could wrap it up for us here pretty quickly- I can wrap it up in about one minute. ... we'll go to questions. Thank you. Um, I would just... the... I think obviously you get a feel for it. I'm, I'm down to the tail end, and, um, we had a public meeting on May the 12th where the mayor came and spoke and, um, people got to ask questions and so forth. We did a similar thing to what we've just done, and had comment forms available for people at that time. We also... it went on the web around May 19th, and, um, people have been able to send in comments since that time. So, if you have questions, I'd be delighted to answer. Thank you. Um, Council Member Gordon? Thank you, Mayor. Betty, thank you very much. Uh, this is an awesome document, and I wanna thank you and your folks for doing this. And I was, um, pleasantly surprised, as I looked through here, to see how many buildings we do have, um, in the outstanding, the significant, and the contributing categories, um, and how many of our, um, our 19th century buildings are in those categories, and in this, what I, what I see is a fairly small area, but I, I don't have, um, too much context for it. So, my question was, h- how does this... I know every city is different, and, uh, some cities don't have a, um, historic preservation within government, and, um, cities have a variety of ways of looking at this. So, is there any way to see how we compare with other cities our age in terms of historic buildings that we have? Yes. The amount of historic fabric that is intact within a certain area? Well, that's a good way to put it. Um, and by intact, in that sense, I would use standing- Mm-Hmm. ... versus l- you know, levels of integrity. Mm-hmm. It- it obviously, as you would know to know, varies very widely. And somewhere like Charlotte, North Carolina has not very much of its historic fabric, but has some, a lot of exciting new-build kind of things in the more recent past. Um, and then there are some areas that have hardly lost any of what is their downtown core historic, um, and so they literally run the gambit of, uh, you know, retaining a great deal to not retaining very much, and, um... You know, Lexington, when you look at the historic photographs, and, uh, I've looked at historic photographs of our community for a many times doing research and so forth. Um, we have lost a great deal, there's no question about that. But we retain a great deal of important material as well. And so, um, I- it's a little bit of a, do you look at the glass as half full or half empty? Well, I thi- I think one of the reasons that we have managed to keep a lot of it is because the local government felt it was important enough to have that, part of that function res- reside within government. Yes. And I think that's a pretty big statement. I know a lot of cities don't have that, so- No, and it, it's meant that, um... ... uh, it's, the division has been part of the government since 1987, and Article 13, uh, actually goes further back than that. And the design review process goes back 50 years now- Mm-hmm. ... and was part of the Division of Planning way back. But, um, overall, and more successfully in more recent times, it means that a lot of the information can be going to different pieces of the government, um, as things are being considered. Mm-hmm. And I think that's an awfully important part of what all communities' efforts are about, and, and, uh, would certainly encourage that to continue and grow as possible. Well, thank you very much. I think this is going to be a document that we, we do use, and, um, it's very helpful, so thank you for all your hard work. You're very welcome. Thank you. Council Member McCord. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Betty, for bringing this forward. And I think it's kind of, uh, long overdue that we have a, a starting document like this, and I appreciate all the work that's gone into it. And the, I guess, my, my question is, going forward now, um, one of the things that, uh, I guess keeps coming up, and it certainly cropped up around the CenterPoint debate and so forth, is what is... what are our priorities for saving? You know, the... that this entire document, you, you, we can't... can we save it all? Do we need to save it all? Where, where do we spend our time? Uh, what resources do we allocate towards saving? How do we, how do we do that? What do you see as a logical next step for this body to consider as far as taking this document and drilling down further? Because as I say, I think this is a, a fantastic first step, but I think that there's... the, the next step is even more important, and, and probably will draw, uh, a lot of peoples' emotions out saying that this is worth saving and, and there's a priority, uh, on this. I mean, I know we've, we've labeled certain things, but even within that significant category, there may be a, a, a spectrum there. What, what do you see as a next step going forward? Well, I think that hopefully this will become, as you're saying, a, a baseline tool that is available, um, for all the different pieces to, uh, use as a start point. And then, um, I think the next thing would be to... for the community to see what kinda tools do they want to put in place to steer the future of the downtown. And they can be overlay districts, and, you know, we already have the courthouse overlay district in existence in the downtown core. We have National Register district in existence in the downtown core. Are there other areas that should be looking at having overlays, um, being placed on them? And, and if so, what is, uh, intended to be accomplished with such an overlay? What's the nature of that overlay? Uh, you know, where is it possible for, um, many of these properties, there are tax credit possibilities in terms of renovation and other, uh, funding, uh, assistance in the sense of mostly credits and so forth? Um, you know, what are the mechanisms necessary to put in place to make them eligible to participate in those programs? And so hopefully this is just a start point. I, I agree 100%, and I think that anything that your office can do, and, and the, the... uh, our planning staff to move this council into a better place, where, uh, we recognize that, that here are best practices from other cities. Uh, here's how we can do that. And, uh, you know, and, and what I would look for, just personally, this council member, is, uh, what are those creative, um, uh, tools that other communities use, uh, that are not a neither/or proposition? Like we get into sometimes with his... H-1 overlays and things like that. What are some of the other ways that we can save buildings, or save facades, or save the character of, of that, but also not have to necessarily, um, use that circa 1800 window and so forth? Um, and the other piece of the, of the pie that I think would be very important to, uh, for you to help us with is, with this new move towards, um, uh, energy efficiency and the environment and so forth, how do we, uh, take an older building like this and make sure that we can incorporate solar panels and wind and other things like that? Uh, and, and all of the best practices that are, are coming down the line, so that it doesn't ruin the character, yet at the same time, uh, we are, are very, um, competitive and cutting edge with, with that historical inventory. I, I'll, I'll just look forward to that from you as, as we go forward. Thank you for your work. Thank you. Council Member Beard. Thank you, Mayor. Um, Betty, this is, uh... again, as, uh, Council Member Gordon said, it's, uh, it's an awesome document, and, uh, very interesting. I was curious about a couple of things. One is, uh... and you have the Fayette Cigar Store up, uh, slide up there right now. Mm-hmm. Uh, the second and third floors of some of these buildings, are they utilized presently? Are they modernized from a wiring, plumbing point of view? Uh, what, what happens with those? Uh... Right. Um, from the inventory perspective, we did not in- get to do the interiors. We did not go in the buildings and go up in the floors and that kinda thing. However, I think it's pretty apparent, particularly at nighttime when you're coming and going, you know, where there is occupancy or utilization on second and third floors and so forth. This particular example, I think it's used for storage. Uh, one of the things that, that, uh, a number of communities and here in Kentucky and elsewhere have been working with successfully is working with your codes and your zoning and all the things that need to come into play to make things possible to get so that you could have residential on the second and third floors. And the tax credits can facilitate what it would cost in order to make that possible and so forth. And, you know, then new addition, new construction can happen in conjunction with that. Um, so there's no question that getting these upper spaces, uh, rehabbed and/or, uh, new construction to happen in conjunction with or whatever to get a lot more, um, occupancy and activity would be a very positive thing. Uh, I, I know for instance, I believe it's Bellini's has a, a ballroom over the top of, uh, of it. Uh, there's some interesting- Yeah, it is space. ... gems in all probability if we could get, uh, get behind those windows sometime and take, and take a look. And I think the owners, and not to speak on their behalf, but they have in casual discussion with us, talked some. They're very interested in making that usable space that they could have for, um, events and parties and that sort of thing. And it's a terrific spot. Yeah. One other question, and that involves significant structures that are outside of the study area. Uh, are we gonna make any attempt of, of identifying, not, not necessarily that are on a, a, a, an historic register of any kind, but o- ones that have some significance, uh, otherwise that, uh, we, we might wanna have on our, uh, next level list? Yes. Um, we, we this program, the Division of Historic Preservation and the Historic Preservation Commission, have, uh, since the, around 1980, been doing architectural survey and inventory work, um, not focused just on a particular pocket and so forth. Having said that, and it's, and it's, uh, in your downtown core, it's in your old neighborhoods around it, ring the downtown and it's out in the countryside. A lot of the push with it was on rural, uh, properties in the early 1980s. So there's a lot of information that's what's referred to as the Kentucky Historic Resources Inventory Form, a copy of which is here in Lexington with us, this office having generated it, and then, uh, it's also on record in Frankfort. Um, I would be the first to say, it is, um, not all-encompassing. And that's where something like this inventory becomes very important, because this does account for every parcel in the area that was studied. And I think that's very important when you're talking about what can be done to have, um, good productive progress. Um, so those other, uh, information that we have, uh, if we have information on it, we'd certainly make that known if anybody, uh, inquires about it, and, um, unfortunately we don't have staff-wise, uh, and, and, uh, funds at the moment, and haven't had for a long time to be progressing that survey process out further. But, um, you know, could on a limited basis target certain other areas that this might be particularly known to be helpful at this time for. So, I, I think it's an important base to s- to try to make happen if we need it. Well, I know the buildings, for instance, that are facing, um, High Street and Maxwell Street where they come together near Woodland Park between Kentucky and Wo- and Woodland, uh, Avenue- Right. ... um, are very similar buildings to the Will Dunn Drug Store building that was at the corner of, uh, Maxwell and, and Limestone. Right. And, uh, probably were built at the same time, and there was a lot of weeping and gnashing of teeth about losing the Will Dunn Drug. So, uh- And, and information certainly, we had compiled research on that Will Dunn Drug Store building, um, long before it, it did meet its demise, but, um, and so you know as a, a base level of information, think it's very important to have that kind of information available, and then other things have to factor in obviously as decisions are made. Well, it's nice to have this on the front end as opposed to have to dig it out when the, uh, wrecking ball is already there. Thank you. Thank you. Council member Martin. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Betty, for your work on this. Um, it's, i- it sort of sad- saddens me to watch this, because we've lost a lot of the art of architecture in Lexington, and I hope that we're able to get some of that back. Um, I know that folks work really hard on this, the Bluegrass Trust and other groups to, to identify and preserve and, uh, some of our, our, our great historic properties. Um, w- what can we do to, to... What do you need? I mean, what, what can we do to, to, to move this forward? I mean, is there... Have you explored sort of tax mechanisms or tax cr- you make available tax credits and you serve as a clearing house for folks or? We already actually do serve as that. Um, Lexington's program is part of the Certified Local Government Program that is statewide for Kentucky and other states around the nation. And so our preservation program, um, is sort of the state's arm, if you will, for Lexington/Fayette County. So for things like interpreting the tax credits and advising people about eligibility for the National Register if something's already on the register. The National Register designation and listing is key to being able to participate in the federal and state tax credits. And so if a property is not already r- listed on the National Register, part of what's important to accomplish if it is eligible for such a designation is to get that accomplished. And then, uh, it positions it to be able to utilize the tax credits, which are, are attractive amounts of money. Uh, it's a 20% tax credit. I won't go into my technical spiel, but if you want to know more about that, I'd be happy to talk to you about it. Um, and then there is a state tax credit that is, uh, actually for owner occupants, which is an unusual kinda thing. Not all, um... That has not been the case in the past. You had to be an investment property, and it's a 30% tax credit. So, um, all these mechanisms, uh, we certainly are glad to be a clearing house and would love to, uh, further that role, uh, as the opportunity would arise. Well, I, I would encourage you to come back and talk with us from time to time diff- uh, about things that we might be able to do to, to help with this and to, uh, um, you know, to, to move this toward Frankfort if needed, uh, but, but in ways that w- we can, uh, sort of take care of our historic properties. 'Cause they, they don't build 'em like they used to, that's for sure. No, that's certainly true. And, you know, I think there may be areas if the community wants to pursue, uh, additional National Register districts and so forth and so on, and I think that'd be a, a very good dialogue. Thank you, Mayor. Council member Blues. Thank you, Mayor, um, and Betty, I just wanted to thank you and, and your staff for carrying out this, uh, uh, this survey and, and, and this inventory. And I wanna thank you, Mayor, for, for, for initiating it. And I, I think that, that, wh- what this really does reaffirm for us, uh, in a, in a pretty concrete w- way is that our downtown is, is a community asset. And , and all components of the community have a significant interest and investment in it. Uh, and, and th- this sets as a kind of, uh, uh, important, uh, uh, prelude, I think, to our consideration of the, of the downtown master plan. Uh, and, and reminds us that as we, uh, that as we develop and as we, w- really do extend our downtown in certain ways, as, as we go west with the, with the distillery district in the future, and we're gonna see soon a, a presentation that will move our downtown southward, uh, along the, along the South Broadway, uh, uh, corridor, that as we, uh, as we bring in the new, we, uh, we, we, we become conscious of how much we owe to what is, what is older. And our, and our trick is gonna be to, uh, to integrate it all. So I really do, uh, I do think this is a, an ex- an extremely important baseline document. And as I said, I wanna, you know, thank you and the mayor for, uh, for really m- making it possible. Thanks again. Thank you for your kind words. Uh, Council Member Feigl. Thank you, Mayor. And, uh, thank you, Ms. Kerr, so much for this document. It's very impressive. Um, and so impressive that I would really, uh, like to do something to ensure that it doesn't just get placed on a shelf. And I realize that many times people say that if you put something in committee, it's gonna die, but, uh, I think the planning committee would, would do, uh, would be a good vehicle to take this document and actually talk about how we might incorporate it into some of our ordinances or, or create ordinances to incorporate this, and just discuss what possibilities are there for using this in future development. So, uh, with that thought, I would like to move that we place this into the planning committee. Second. Uh, I have a motion to refer the, um, downtown historic building inventory to, uh, the planning committee. That was made by Council Member Feigl, seconded by Council Member James. Um, I think it might be h- helpful, Ms. Kerr, if you could sorta summarize where you anticipate the Historic Preservation Commission will go with this, just so everybody will have some sense of that as well. Yes, at the current time, um, we're still accepting public comment through it being on the web and people, the form being there and they can email and so forth. And, um, probably will do that for another two or three weeks, and then, um, make some tweakings as needed, uh, to the inventory. And then we're also working with Downtown Development Authority, who's working with us to map this information, um, in a, as I mentioned, color-coded way. And then the intent is for it to go to the Historic Preservation Commission, uh, at their September 16th meeting, um, for their discussion and review and action. And so, kind of in a timing sense, that's where we are. And I thought it might be helpful in terms of whatever action the planning committee might wanna take, you'd at least be aware of what their timetable is. So, uh, any further discussion on the motion to refer to committee? All right. Let's vote on that and then we'll continue with our discussion. Those in favor of referring the inventory to the planning committee, please indicate by saying aye. Aye. Oppose, no. Motion carries. Anything further, Council Member Feigl? Thank you, Mayor. No. Vice Mayor Gray. Uh, thank you, Mayor. I, uh, I was one of several... How many council... I was one of the council members who attended the, uh, public hearing that, uh, Betty was referring to, and, um, I've, I think that night shared, as, as the meeting began, uh, shared many of the observations that some of you all have shared today in terms of thanks for the st- to the staff, and thanks to the mayor for initiating this. And then about halfway through the meeting or a little bit further, someone in the meeting held up their hand and they said, "Well, this was done in 1994, 1995, a very similar study, similar scope." And on the Rosenberg Block, there were 14 buildings identified as either outstanding, significant, or contributing. Isn't that right, Betty? Uh, yes. At the time, I didn't h- go back and study those, but they would have all been the, probably a third, a third, and a third in terms of category. Okay. And what I think is relevant to this discussion is what Sheryl was just, uh, uh, Council Member Feigl just said, what we've just ill- what we've just seen, uh, occur is that, uh, the study was done and the study was ignored. And as a result, we have a deceased block in terms of many of the attributes that you're describing are valuable. And I think that , that, the significance of that is that this time around, 15 years later, that we're doing the deja vu all over again. ... and really after a failure of preservation and after a failure of planning. And within the context of not a bunch of blue hairs talking about preserving old buildings, but within the context of economic development and economic prosperity. It shouldn't be lost on us that 70 miles down the road, John, in your town now, in Louisville, the Idea Festival that was created here in Lexington migrated to Louisville and it is being centered around, events are being centered around a place called 21C Museum and Hotel. A project that carefully restored for Main Street, turn of the 19th... turn of the 20th century warehouses that were falling apart by most standards. The foundations were crumbling, the buildings were crumbling, and it today stands as an icon of economic development for that city. Just out of respect for the deceased and for the record, I feel like we should say that. And I do hope that as we discuss this project in committee that we will examine the history of neglecting the projects just like this that have already been done and that was not revealed except through the audience members, the public who were there that night. Thank you, Mayor. Council Member Lawless. Um, I too was there and thank you very much. I know you all have a lot of work to do and this entailed a lot of, a lot more work. Um, I think, just to piggyback on what Vice Mayor Gray said, um, until we do something as a community about demolition by neglect, then it really won't matter how much inventory we have or how outstanding or excellent it is. And so, um, that's just my two cents worth. It's really, um, tragic what has happened to many of our buildings in our neighborhoods and our downtown by allowing them to be neglected. Thank you. Ms. Kerr, um, I believe the night we had the hearing, we talked about the fact that code enforcement was going to be going through the downtown area, um, to address some of those issues that Council Member Lawless just mentioned. Have you had any conversations with them lately about the status of that effort? Uh, no, we have not. I know that, um, they're working with that and, but I don't have an update on where they are with it. And the report that Vice Mayor Gray referred to a few moments ago, was it ever adopted by the preservation committee or- That was... No. That was, um, a study done as part of a larger downtown plan committee that was appointed by the mayor at the time, Mayor Miller. And, uh, the, uh, base material that was compiled for that and so forth, the material was included with a report that had a lot of recommendations for the downtown. One of which just comes to mind was to create an overlay district, um, a design review district, which was done. That's the Courthouse Overlay District. Um, and a lot of other, uh, recommendations and findings. And that report never came out of committee in toto. So it was never adopted by the council or anybody else? No. All right. Any other questions for Council Member Lawless? Um, Council Member Lane. Um, I own one of the... a building over in Louisville 15 years ago on Main Street, and most of the buildings there have very large, uh, floor plates, so they're sort of adaptable for renovation. Out of the inventory that you've looked at here, are there any specific buildings that you've noticed that, other than as their current use, that would be ideal for renovation for adaptive use? Ton- tons of them. Seriously. There's har- I, and I can't think of one we saw that, well, unless it had structural issues that we're unaware of that would preclude its being able to be renovated, there's just tons of potential and, uh, many tools available to help make that happen. Well, I was referring to, you know, like, building a hotel or, um, you know, converting a warehouse into a major office building or something. You know, what, what properties do we have that you could put your finger on? I mean, I- Well, you can accomplish, if you need larger numbers of square footage than is in any one building- Right. ... uh, you can certainly, uh, punch through on an interior sense if you have a contiguous row of buildings and put several different scaled and diverse buildings into use for one use internally. Something like the Victorian Square Project or- Something of that order. ... pat for a- Uh, it doesn't have to be that big. It could only include three or four buildings, or, uh, it can include new construction. It could have a tower built adjacent to it. Um, it's important to have design review not only about what's done with the historic buildings, but what's done in the new construction mode so that the two are successfully compatible. Um, the sky's the limit, and I don't mean just physically uh- We, we know what might be helpful- ... in terms of possibilities. ... is maybe just one, a report you could do would be to perhaps list some of the buildings that you feel that would be adaptable for, you know, reno- you know, uh, re-adaptive uses. And we might submit that over to the Lexington Downtown Development Authority, and they might take a look at those too and see if there's some way we could, you know, have a higher and better use that generates more revenue so that the economic incentive would be there to renovate and retain these buildings. Well, and one of the hopes is, with this data available online, it's been purposefully brief. As I say, we have a lot more information about a lot of these buildings, but, uh, is that people can, if they're thinking about a project, uh, look quickly at a particular series of addresses or whatever, and say, "Hey, that interests us." And then we would very much welcome working with those people and the Downtown Development Authority and all the different players, building inspection, code enforcement, all the folks, to come together to help make those things happen. In your, uh, survey, did you find any buildings that you thought were in deplorable or poor condition that needed immediate attention? Well, it's not a condition survey. It's not an evaluation of the physical repair needs of buildings. It was an architectural and history and, uh, role in the community sort of survey. So, any of these buildings, um, I would say broadly, we didn't see anything that I thought was, from the exterior, which is all we were privy to, uh, certainly didn't see anything I thought was imminently in risk of collapse or anything like that, 'cause certainly we would've spoken up to the appropriate parties, had we. Um, I think through the, uh, code enforcement, uh, approach that's being done, uh, now, focusing on this area, that some of that information will come to be known more closely, and the two can go hand in glove. The, what is this building historically and architecturally, what are its physical needs, what kinda uses are possible, we can just ex- spread the, uh, we can spread the envelope from there to explore very positive possibilities. M- maybe I can throw one more question at you, is- Certainly. ... in your career, uh, here, which has been long and distinguished, could you maybe mention a couple of the historic buildings that have been, have re- ad- readapted uses to them that you felt like were very successful for our community? Well, you know, I think two things come to mind quickly. One is not any particular building, but our community has some very incredible, uh, residential neighborhoods that, in toto, have a, a huge impact on our community. And there're tons of success stories street by street in those neighborhoods. In the downtown core, uh, you have, uh, I mean, churches that have done incredible renovations to keep their sanctuaries vibrant and historically intact and active to their current day needs and daycare centers and so forth in downtown. You've had apartment buildings redone, uh, with new construction included. Um, buildings such as along Limestone Street, across from Sayre School. You know, Sayre School is an example of having rehabbed that fantastic historic house that's the core of its campus. They've, in more recent times, built some very successful contemporary buildings to serve their needs and, uh, combine the old and the new. Um, I don't know that you have enough time to hear my list of success stories. And I don't say that, you know, facetiously. Uh, there really are a wonderful array of good projects, but there also are many more buildings waiting to have good projects happen to them. And I'm hoping that this study will help that happen. Thank you. Just to piggyback on that. Uh, Vice Mayor Craighead. I think I just want to piggyback. That's a great question that Council Member Lane asked, because I think, you know, often we, our, um, lack of understanding, awareness of the successes lead us to patterns that we might otherwise avoid. And, uh, just knowing, for example, I mean, I confess, you know, I'm in, I'm in the, I'm in the business, so I'm more aware of it. Right. And Ed, you are too, in a sense, being in the real estate. But the, uh, absence of that awareness, which is what we've, there's been lots of discussion within the preservation community that that represents failure on our part, not to be aware, adequately aware of these successes. Sayre School is an extraordinary example. You used important words, Betty, massing and scale. That architect, the architect for that project was extraordinarily skillful in translating those elements into that place and bringing contemporary architecture into a traditional climate, environment, and character, and pulling it off in a really inspired way, which has led to , the people at Sayre will tell you, has led to more enrollment, higher visibility, and even, to some extent, increasing their, um, their fundraising. So, lots of inspiration came out of the preservation of these projects, and that leads to this economic vitality that- Right. ... completes the circle. So I think what you're saying is a great ide- that the committee would actually examine the success stories is what, and, and it helps us inform, it helps us to be informed on the opportunities. Thank you, Mayor. Council Member Lane? Yeah, I just wanted to, uh, follow up and say that I, I thought that one of the best, uh, readapted uses was your gray, uh, office building in downtown, where the Wolf-Wall Building was renovated, and you maintained the front exterior on Main, put a contemporary entrance on the back and, you know, moved your offices in there. I thought that was a... And that was a significant property. It's probably about 70 or 80,000 square feet. And if I could just say, uh, a- and it wouldn't have ha- You were the realtor for the project. But, you know, literally it's a, it's a really good... Uh, th- We, we were so close, as you know... ... to not doing that project and leaving that building. I mean, we weren't even, wasn't even on the radar screen. We'd already broken ground out on Harrodsburg Road for a new building. And Mr. Weill, bless his heart, called my mother up and said, "Lois, I'm gonna reduce the price." And Ed Lane brought us that reduced price. But it was that close to not occurring. And we love being in this building today. It's extraordinary. And being downtown. Well, and we use it locally and statewide and at national conferences as an excellent example of some of the things happening in our town. It utilized the tax credits. The Grays got it listed on the National Register. So, you know, it's a microcosm example, even though it's a big project, of the kinda things we're talking about that could happen in a lot of good spots. Council Member James. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Betty. Um, I just wondered about the boundaries of the inventory. How were those determined? In discussion with the mayor, uh, just wanted to, uh, have something manageable to start as a core. Uh, it has, as we said, the 34 blocks in it. Uh, and I'm glad you asked that because particularly would note, there is nothing, um, uh, if you were to approach creating a National Register district or a local historic district or any other kinda thing, you would not, um, uh, draw the line on one side of a street only, for example. So wherever you draw that outside line, it's not to suggest that what's directly across the street and in that block adjacent and, you know, the blocks as they ripple on out, uh, doesn't have the same kinds of possibilities and significances and so forth and so on. But it really is more of a, a practical start point boundary than anything reflecting any kinda criteria. Okay. Thank you. Thanks, Mayor. Anything further for Ms. Kerr? All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. Appreciate your time. Mr. Kelly. Thank you. Good afternoon. Um, we wanted to, uh, visit with you for a few minutes this afternoon about a, a exciting potential new project, uh, in, in our community. Uh, Mr. George Krikorian, uh, is, uh, is the developer. He has, uh, a long history of residential, commercial, uh, kinds of development. Uh, had his beginning as an, as an educator, I believe, and, uh, still, uh, is involved in, uh, in, uh, education at Boston University. Is that correct, you're still doing that? Been awhile? Okay. But nevertheless, uh, a project that's going to, uh, uh, hopefully be located over on Angliana, off of South, uh, Broadway. And Mr. Krikorian is going to, uh, uh, give you, uh, background and, uh, and a brief, uh, synopsis of the, of the project. And then Chris Westover will give you some of the scheduling and details about, uh, the projects, uh, um, moving forward. Thank you. Good afternoon, I'm Chris Westover, and I'm excited to bring George Krikorian here. He's the president of Krikorian Premier Cinema, and, uh, he's going to talk to you about his proven track record of other developments in Southern California. And when he's done, I'm going to just take a moment to talk to you about the specific issues related to the site, uh, on Angliana Avenue. But before we get started, we'd like to show you a very brief video. Thank you. Mayor. Mayor. Can I ask a question? Yes, ma'am. I'm just ... I'm not sure, um, where the presentation is going, but I'm wondering if it's related to a TIF. Should this be an appropriate presentation for the TIF work group, as opposed to the Council as a whole? And I could be totally off. I don't, I'm not sure where this is going and what we can do today. All right. Mr. Kelly. This is to provide the Council as a whole with, uh, some background about the project. And you're correct. They will have to do their economic analysis and, and, uh, um, will make an application for a TIF that would come to the work group, the Council work group, eh, who would investigate and, and review the project and then bring a recommendation to the full council. So this is the, this is the, uh, starting point for the process, just to give the entire Council an opportunity to, um, get a sense of what the project, uh, will be, and then if it evolves to the TIF process, it would, it would go through that, uh, that committee or group, working group. Okay. Just, uh, just a brief concern that we, uh, we went through this with the two previous TIFS. We didn't really have a set way that we were gonna do things, and we kind of, um, randomly did things, and we didn't have a procedure. So if it is related to a TIF, I just would re- make sure that we have a structure and a process that we're following, because now we're putting it out there to the public and now we need to know what our steps are next. So that's just a concern. I'd be willing to have that discussion about what the steps could be, but I'm, I'm just uncomfortable with the direction that it's going right now. I'm not sure if other council members have comment or not. Thanks, Mayor. Well, if the council doesn't wanna hear about the project, that's, I mean, uh, up, up to the council as a whole. The general idea here is to give you some idea of what is proposed, uh, in the way of a development along Angliana Avenue. And if you prefer to just wait until it's all said and done with and a definitive TIF application is presented, that's perfectly all right. That's up to the council. I, I don't necessarily have an objection, I just have dis- discomfort in wondering how do we proceed from today? That's all. We usually, if we have presentation, we, you know, we refer it to a committee or something. If that's the angle, then maybe that's where we're going, but I'm just a little uncomfortable right now. I would anticipate that, um, at some point the details of a proposed TIF district will become definitive enough to where we'd wanna reconvene the, uh, TIF delegation work group, whatever we called it last summer, and, uh, have them evaluate it and make a proposal at some later time, probably, almost certainly after the break. I can speak just very quickly. The reason we're here now is we, uh, intend to file the development plan with the planning commission when you're on break. And we just wanted, as a courtesy to let you know that this would be coming eventually to you in that regard, so that you didn't read about it first in the newspaper. So th- that's our only purpose with, with doing this today. And we're not gonna get into any specifics. It's just an introduction of, uh, uh, what Kricorian Premier Theaters has done in other areas. A- and that's the only purpose that we're requesting your time today. Council member Lane. All right. Uh, thank you, Mayor. I would just like to say that, uh, for myself, I appreciate your coming to the meeting today. And we, uh, are very interested in economic development in our community. And the fact that you would like to come and give us some information about your proposals to develop here, uh, from my point of view, is very warmly received. And so I want you to know that, um, you know, we are open for development. We appreciate your being here today. Thank you. Council member Crosby. I would, uh, pr- Council member Lane pretty much just summed up what I was- All right. ... going to say. Thank you. Fair well. All right. I guess, we're ready to roll on. Go ahead, *********. All right. Good afternoon, Mayor, uh, council members. My name is George Kricorian, President of Kricorian Theaters. And we are primarily a Southern California, uh, based, um, theater developer and operator. And actually this next week is our 25th, uh, anniversary, uh, in this, in this business. And, uh, what brought me to, um, Lexington, in- initially is my, uh, passion for thoroughbred horses. And, uh, and spending a lot of time here several times, uh, each year, I got to looking around the, uh, downtown area and I noticed that there was no significant multiplex theater in the downtown. So it's just my nature to start looking at the, uh, demographics and so forth, and we came to the conclusion that a, um, a, a multiplex theater in the downtown would make a lot of economic sense. So, um, I began my search for a site, and, uh, we found the an- the site at Angliana in South Broadway. Uh, we think that it's a perfect site for the development that we're going to be proposing. Uh, our company has significant experience in developing, uh, downtown redevelopment projects, uh, like the Angliana site is. And, um, we're also very sensitive and respectful of the community, uh, its needs, and its wishes for this type of a project. And our objective is to develop a, uh, project that respects the architecture and the infrastructure preferred by the city and its neighbors. And I'd like to now just show you, if I may, a couple of examples of the projects that we have built in the past few years. Uh, the first one here is , it's in the city of, uh, Monrovia, which is a suburb of, uh, Los Angeles. Their main street was ve- virtually 80% vacant with shops. We came in and we, uh, took out a, um, we took out a, uh, a major shop in the middle of, uh, Main Street, and behind that, um, shop is a, uh, parking lot. And we purchased that parking lot from the city, and we built a, um, 12 screen, 12 screen, uh, multiplex theater. And if you look on the right side, you'll see that the architecture and character of this project, uh, respects the, what was the flavor and architecture in existence. And on the interior, we went with a very contemporary, uh, motif. The project, uh, increased substantially after the project was opened. The, uh, retailers, uh, flourished. A whole b- bunch of new restaurants were opened. And the project, uh, ultimately won, you know, an award, uh, fo- from the California Redevelopment Association as the best redevelopment project of the year. Uh, another project we did was in the City of Downey, which is also a suburb of Los Angeles. And they, they had a, uh, courthouse, an old courthouse that had been, um, um, shut down, 'cause it wasn't safe. And it was in the core block of the city. We came in- ... uh, remove the, uh, courthouse structure and built a, um, 10-screen movie theater. Again, the architecture and the character reflected what the community, uh, was looking for. And, um, the interior has a grand balcony and we've ... All the, all of our lobbies have real first-class amenities and each one is different. Um, this is a project here in Redlands, which is in San Bernardino County, California. And what's interesting is it's also adjacent to a railroad track and a, um, a train station that we, uh, we also purchased and, and, uh, operate. The, uh, project, again, was designed with a large, uh, uh, classic Spanish tower with, uh, all tile and gold tiled, uh, roof dome and, uh, that was done, uh, to reflect the character of a library that had been buil- built 150 years earlier in the downtown. And, uh, I'll show you now the picture. This is what the theater turned out to look like, and again, it has a grand balcony inside, uh, the lobby. We try to create a very exciting experience for moviegoers that starts out at the sidewalk as opposed to when a movie starts on the screen. Uh, this project, uh, also, uh, we were awarded the, uh, Key to the City. It's the first and only business, uh, that the city has ever awarded a Key to the City, uh, for pro- for a project like this . Uh, this project here, uh, is in Pico Rivera. We built this last year. It sat on 12 acres of, uh, abandoned buildings that you're looking at the photograph of here. There was also an old, uh, mobile home park. Uh, there was a series of, uh, toxic industrial buildings. There was a, um, reclamation center there. And, uh, anyway, we tore it all down. Uh, we had to do some soils work on it because it was contaminated and we'll now show you what the, what it turned out to be. It's what you see here. It's a 15-screen movie theater, uh, re- re- retail around it, and a drug store on the corner. It's a significant change in what was there. It's also a redevelopment project . And this is, uh, another theater in, uh, Buena Park. We opened, uh, about three years ago. It was an old mall that had been, uh ... wasn't doing very well. Most of the stores were vacant. There was an old JC Penney's store that had closed. We tore down the JC Penney store, uh, and built a theater and they built a main street with it, with the retailers , and this is what it looks like today . Uh, and this last one here is in, uh, Vista, which is in San Diego, California. City had about eight-block area that was, uh, totally rundown. Uh, came in and built the theater you see here, and they built a main street, uh, with retail shops and so forth and it's opened about two years ago. It's, it's doing ... and it's doing very well . Um, now I'd like to just ve- very briefly show you the site that we're proposing to build what we call a Metroplex Entertainment Center off of Angliana and South Broadway. It's com- approximately 15 acres of land. It would include a approximately 16 screen state-of-the-art multiplex cinema with approximately 3,400, uh, seats. There'd be a 24-lane, uh, bowling alley with a sports bar, plus children's party hall where you can have, uh, private, uh, birthday rooms and parties for children. Uh, there'd be a, an additional approximate 130,000 square feet of, uh, retail mixed-use, um, space available and we hope that we can attract tenants such as gourmet supermarket, substantial bookstore, uh, sit-down restaurants, and convenience, uh, retailers such as- Mr. Krikourian. ... like cleaners, hair salons- Mr. Krikourian. ... possibly a bank. Let me interrupt you for just a second. A little bit of the difficulty we've got is the fact that this, um, discussion is similar to the discussion you'll be having with the planning commission at some point in the not-too-distant future, and this group sits as a, um, kind of a, an appellate entity, uh, for decisions by the planning commission. Uh, I guess to the extent that you could tell us, uh, a little bit more about your company, that would be appropriate, but to the extent we're talking about getting into the details of the site plan, I've got- Okay. ... some reservations about that. Yeah, of course. Okay. Just, uh, just, just to clarify, this is not a zone change, so it will never come to the council. This is gonna be filed under your newly enacted adaptive reuse text amendment that, for example, allowed the Distillery District to go forward. So this is not a zone change and, and, uh, the commission will review the development plan, but the council has no authority, review authority, over, over that. All right. Just a moment . Are we there? Nice. Over here. They're just asking what, uh- Oh, okay. Excuse me. Sure. Mayor, excuse me just a second. Uh, it's my understanding that there's nothing that is going to be discussed, other than the TIF, the proposed TIF application, which the council would ultimately have to approve. But as far as the site plan goes and, and the items that this gentleman's discussing, it's my understanding that the council at no time would have to vote on it. So, I don't see there being a- an issue. Right. There's ... You won't ever get it. It's my understanding this is for informational purposes. Right. All right. In that case, we apologize for the interruption and sorry about that. We're just trying to hopefully- I apologize too because it's certainly not my intent to be controversial at all. ... just to come by and say hello and- But, uh, I'll- I'll keep my last comments very brief, uh, brief. Uh, one of the last things I, I just wanted to point out is that we're going, I'm gonna propose a iconic tower to be built, uh, on that Grassy Knoll area on South Broadway. Uh, if you see, and it'd be about approximately 60 or 80 feet tall and sort of be a icon out there with, uh, it would have on the ground floor, it would have a series of, um, a resta- uh, not restaurants, but, uh, like a food court. And then the upper level would be a restaurant with a, uh, with a, with a bar, with a 360 d- degree view of the city sitting up there. And that would also mark a place where people would know that the, the, the, the project exists. So, that's kind of what we're looking at and, uh, and hope, and I'm hoping that it's something that, uh, the city looks fondly a- at and that we, uh, uh, we get to celebrate a grand opening someday. So, yeah. Thank you. Ms. Westover? Uh, just very briefly, we just wanted to inform you all, uh, before you go on break that the commission will be getting this sometime this summer when, when you're gone. And you will have no review authority over this at all. This is strictly a final development plan matter. Uh, this is not a zone change. Uh, we appreciate your, uh, e- enactment of the adaptive reuse text amendment though, that allows the better reuse and adaptation of these industrial areas. Uh, and when you come back from your break, uh, we hope to, uh, discuss the TIF with you. We, we just wanted to be sure that you knew about this firsthand, and that's our only purpose in being here today. And to introduce you to Mr. Krikorian. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Wayne. Thanks - Could, could I do is just a couple follow-up questions. Uh- Uh-huh. Approximately, what would be the value of your economic development? What would be the value? Uh, at this point, we don't, we, we don't have a number. It's sort of a moving target, but it would probably be in excess of $70 million. Okay. Thank you. Appreciate that. Council member Martin. Thank you, Mayor. Uh, thank you very much for coming and sharing this with us. It looks like just a very cool project and some, some really neat things that you've done before. And it would be, uh, just a, a very nice addition to, to, to Lexington. And, um, I think the, uh, the TIF aspect of it is we would be ... I'm sorry. The TIF ac- aspect of it would be that we would be able to, to use some, uh, some of the, the tax funds that come off this new project for, for some things. And so, uh, it's a, uh, a, uh, it is exactly the kind of thing that TIF projects are for. And, uh, it just looks very exciting. I just wanna thank you for coming. Council member Feigl. Thank you, Mayor. Well, thank you so much, Mr. Krikorian. This is, uh, a really neat looking plan. Uh, my only question is, can we expect to see some palm trees in here? Vice Mayor Gray. I was just gonna in- inquire about, looking at the plan, it looks like this is, uh, uh ... I expect that some of us may have been in maybe one of the, one of your, um, uh, developments, or at least I, I believe I have in Southern California someplace. I was just gonna, as we're looking at the plan, it's an outdoor- ... uh, sort of a new, a new urbanist theme to it, where the parking is not right in front of the theater, but you can walk from one store to the next, sort of like in the outside. It's, it's an urban village concept, so it's ... Right. ... ... always good to come to the mic. Right. Er, yeah, yeah, George, could you come to the mic? Thank you, sir. The urban village concept, so that, oh, the idea is to walk around. There's also, uh, outside proposal, there'll be waterfalls, there'll be an amphitheater out by the, uh, uh, by the tower, so they can have community events or entertainment out there. And a real, a strong, organic, uh, landscaping of a l- parallel with the, with the railroad track, so that it really, uh, kind of hides all that from the project. And you're, you're ... One of the interesting things, George, that, that if looking at, just looking at the plan on it is , which is a, is, is, we, you've, if you've been here you've hea- heard our conversation about our downtown master plan. One of the themes of the master plan is the streetscape and the presence of buildings on the street. And looking at this plan, you have done that. You've maintained the buildings at street, right at the sidewalk, and you put parking behind them. And that was done deliberately and intentionally, right? It wa- it was, and it was s- it was suggested that we do that be, uh, we have, uh, assembled a team here and they've been inquiring as to, you know, what, what can we do that reflects what the community would like? And one of the things that we were told is that they'd like to see, see retail on, on the street, activate Angleanne Avenue, as well as activate the, uh, walkway between the, between the buildings that are going to be, uh, proposed, leading, uh, to the, the plaza at the theater. So you've got retail facing both Angleanne Avenue, storefronts, as well as into the project, uh, itself. Well, there's some , just wanna say in closing, some, uh, some attractive themes that you're presenting here. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Council member James. Thank you, Mayor. Um, Mr. Krikorian and, and Ms. Westover, uh, please don't take this, uh, my attempts to make sure we were following the right pro- procedure, anti your project. It just, we've gotta make sure that we do things that don't jeopardize your projects in the future, so that's what I was, that's what I was thinking, and I clarified through planning staff. So I was thinking on your best interests and, um, as many others have said, I'm pro-economic development. Um, I'm also pro-adaptive reuse, and I love the fact that you do have some buildings that you're attempting to reuse in, in your development. I think that's great. Um, I like mixed use. I like the intent of that. And it's, it's a beautiful drawing, and I do hope that you're able to fulfill this. So I just wanted to put out there, I'm not anti anybody coming forward to council. I wish our council chambers were filled with people coming with ideas, um, every time we met here, and that we could be here for hours talking about ideas 'cause they're out there. Um, I just wanna make sure that you, um, know that we do have a, a, a procedure. Just wanna make sure that's clear. We're, we didn't do so well procedurally with the first two TIFS, and I just wanna make sure that we have that, um, down pat, and that we are doing that as, uh, for our citizens, um, as well as for you as developers too. So please, um, thank you for your patience. Well, thank you, and it's no, no offense taken at all. I understand. Council member Blues. Thank you, Mayor. Uh, I wanted to, uh, uh, add to what Council member James just said about, uh, uh, uh, including, uh, a, a present warehouse on this, on this, on this site and, and in this dynamic project. And also, uh, I think it's impressive that, uh, that on the, uh, on the site of, uh, of an historic, uh, railroad station that we, uh, you know, several years ago, uh, uh, ha- had in mind trying to save, and that, that, that didn't work, it was ultimately destroyed by fire. Uh, and it, and it does seem that, that, on that space, uh, you're gonna have, uh, giving us something to be excited about again. So it, it, uh, uh, really is something for us to, to look forward to, and, and we'll wanna hear more about this, and about the TIF. So thanks for being here, and thank you for your presentation. Thank you very much. Council member McCord. Thank you, Mayor. Very briefly, I, I too wanna thank you for, uh, for bringing this forward to us. And I'm gonna reiterate once again that, uh, all of this Center Point and Distillery District, uh, has done is helped educate this body so that, uh, when we see these types of things, we understand what questions to ask, what procedures need to be in place, um, that it's all very, it's been a very positive thing, and, uh, this, this whole discussion. But I would also point out that I have said this over and over and over. In the worst economy in our, in our lifetime, we still have people from the outside looking to Lexington to invest and improve our area. You're to be applauded and commended, and we should recognize that this is something, uh, that other places don't have, would kill for, and, uh, and we need to recognize that we need to do everything in our power to, uh, help, uh, help folks like this, recognize that Lexington is a good place to put our, put their money, and invest their time and energy and resources and talents. Thank you very much, I appreciate it. Well, thank you. I appreciate you saying that, and you should know that, uh, in spite of the ec- economy right now, which is a concern to a lot of people, our business has been up this year about 20% over last year, so people are still going to movies. So tha- that combined with the fact that you have no theaters here, we feel very comfortable that if we would open a movie theater and bowling alley today, they would both do very well economically. That's why we're, we're, we're here. Council member Lawless. Um, I too wanna thank you and thank you for taking the community's needs and concerns into, um, consideration, um- ... very excited about this and also appreciate that you're willing to invest in the greatest city west of the Mississippi, or is it east? East. Yeah. That. I'm not all that good at direction. Anybody will tell you I get lost with GPS. It usually just says, "Reroute." But, um, anyway, it's fabulous and, um, thank you very much. Thank you. Council member Beare. Well, I didn't wanna get left in the... Left behind. It seemed like everybody else had something to say and as former Economic Development Director for the city, uh, of course, my mouth waters when I see something like this. I'm sure that, uh, the Cinemark people are probably finding tall buildings to jump off of, uh, a- at this point. But, uh, th- this is wonderful and, um, I had made a comment some years ago that, that South Broadway was gonna be our second Main Street and, uh, it looks like this is coming to, uh, fruition. And, uh, as, uh, Council Member McCord said, we are quite pleased to have someone in this climate that we all, uh, live in, um, come and be aggressive about doing something within our community. And, uh, it's something that we're proud of and, um, we're proud to have you involved in it. Thank you very much. Tha- thank you. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you. Any further questions for Mr. Krikorian? Thanks so much for being here. Yeah. We appreciate you taking the time to visit with us today. Sorry you had to wait as long as you did, Ms. Westover. It's a pleasure to have you back. Thank you very much for your time. Uh, Council Member Lawless. I just wanna make a point that we could also be the best city west of the Mississippi also. I guess that's one of those- ... you have to think about it deals. Thank you. All right, uh, let's move on with the, uh, council reports. Council Member Stennet. Thank you, Mayor. I move approval of the NDF list that, uh, was circulated earlier this week with the addition of the Sixth District funds. So moved. Second. Second. I have a motion by Council Member Stennet, second by Council Member McCord to approve the NDF. Any discussion? Council Member Martin. Thank you, Mayor. I move to amend the NDF report to remove the $250 of improvements and signage for the community gardens, uh, for the Beaumont Presbyterian Church. Uh, there was an accounting error and we have, uh, we- we're out of NDF funds to, to handle this, so we're gonna do it in July or August. So, so moved. I have a motion and second to remove... Was it Beaumont Presbyterian? $250 for Beaumont Presbyterian Community Garden. Uh, any discussion? All in favor of the amendment, please indicate by saying, "Aye." Aye. All opposed, "No." Motion carries. Prepared to vote on the NDF as amended. Any discussion? All in favor of approving it, please indicate by saying, "Aye." Aye. Opposed, "No." Motion carries. Thank you, Mayor. And then also, I move to place on the docket for Thursday, June the 25th, council meeting resolution amending council rules section 4.106 in regards to public meeting time to three minutes. That was circulated last week during council work session. So moved. Second. I have a motion by Council Member Stennet and a second by Council Member Lane to, uh, place that item on the docket. Any discussion? Any... If there's not, we'll proceed to vote. Those in favor of adding that item to the June 25th docket, please indicate by saying, "Aye." Aye. Opposed, "No." Motion carries. Uh, Council Member James votes no. Thank you, Mayor. And also, uh, about four, four work sessions ago, we tabled a budget amendment in regards to the MERF recycling facility. And today, a new business, we placed on the docket to proceed with that, uh, change in the facility out, out of the MERF Recycling Center to a streamlined system. So I... Therefore, I move to untable the budget journal number 32635 in the amount of $1,483,300 and place on the docket for June 25th council meeting. So moved. Second. I have a motion to take that item from the table and place it on the June 25th docket. Council Member Stennet, help me to recall. Was that ready for second reading at the time, or first reading? No, it was on the work session agenda. It had... It did not- All right. ... make it to the docket. All right. Very well. Um, motion to take from the table is non-debatable. Those in favor of taking it from the table, please indicate by saying, "Aye." Aye. Opposed, "No." Motion carries. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you. Council Member Myers. Thank you, Mayor. Um, I just wanna announce that the library board, when they were in here a couple weeks ago, they talked about a partnership that they have with the Eighth District over in the Gainesway building. And we were able to meet with the board members and the, um, director of the library and wanted to announce that we have worked... Reached a, a new agreement, where they are going to hire a part-time programming person for the building, which will be able to bring in volunteers and add a whole lot of things to our community. So, um, I just wanna let this council know and the law department know that they're going to be... They need an agreement that needs to be executed before they can advertise the position. They're supposed to get us some language and then I'd like to get with you, uh, Commissioner, and with Rama and see if we can't put something together, uh, post haste, and we'd like to get that approved, uh, before we go on break. So we wanna put the council on notice that that's gonna be happening. And then, um, as you all know, the engineering audit was, uh, just completed by the internal auditor. And I spoke with the mayor kind of briefly offline this, this afternoon about whether or not we would have that presented at a work session. He thought maybe that's not the best way to do that. Um, so I kind of want to just put it out there, whether we should put that into next week's work session for a presentation by Bruce Salley or whether we would put that into one of the committees, standing committee. And I really don't necessarily have a preference. So- ... I mean, I guess we could do it in gov or we could do it... Uh, if we put it in the committee, it's gonna take longer for it to... Mo- I'm sorry. Go ahead. Uh, thank you, Mayor. Most of our internal audit reports go to budget and finance. So, it seems to me that might, even though they don't necessarily have a budget impact, that's where we've been putting them. Would that work? I guess I wanna check with the chair to see about timeline, 'cause I know we canceled this month's meeting. I'm not sure what you got on the agenda for next month. Yeah. We could definitely handle it on the July 7th meeting if you wanna do it. That's our last meeting before break. Okay. And we moved it then so we could hear the ye- uh, year-end numbers or, or get an estimate of our year-end revenues. I, I think that'd be great. And then, um, maybe have a closed session after that's over. So I just wanna kind of put the council on those lap- for that as well. So, um, I guess do I need a move to put that into the committee? You want a motion on that? Okay, I move that we put, um, this most recent engineering audit that was completed by Bruce Alley and the auditing department into, uh, budget and finance to be heard at their next meeting. So moved. Second. Have a motion by Councilmember Meyers and second by Councilmember James to place the audit report on engineering into the budget and finance committee. Any discussion? All in favor, please say, "Aye." Aye. Opposed, no? Motion carries. Thank you. And I think the mayor's gonna make some announcements in his, uh, mayor's report today. And I may have a comment about that too. All right. Thank you, Mayor. Councilmember Blues. Thank you, Mayor. Uh, it's gonna be a busy day in the Second District, uh, this coming Saturday, June 27th. Several events going on. The Georgetown Street Neighborhood Association will, uh, will start things off at, uh, 8:00 AM with, uh, with, with its Great American Cleanup Day. And neighbors, volunteers, uh, can come out to, uh, to the Oyer Center in Douglas Park, uh, where the, uh, where, where people will meet and get their, get their assignments and move out into, into the neighborhood. Uh, later, later in the morning, 11 o'clock, the Oakwood Neighborhood Association will begin its neighborhood picnic day in the, in the Oakwood Park. That'll go from about 11 o'clock until 4:00 PM. Uh, there's gonna be games, entertainment, food, uh, and we're hoping for a big turnout, uh, and should be a lot of fun. And then at two o'clock that afternoon, the Brookfield Chase Neighborhood Association will meet in the North Side Library. That's two o'clock on, on Saturday. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you. Councilmember Beard. Uh, thank you, Mayor. Um, over the past six and a half years, two and a half up back here and four years up in the balcony, I've sat here and, and seen, uh, various and sundry sports teams, uh, either brought in here or mentioned for o- one reason or another. I remember Bill Farmer, for instance, uh, with his, uh, son. I happen to have, in case anybody didn't notice, a state championship trophy. This is an individual trophy. The big trophy is big and, um, it is for the under 10-year-old, um, female soccer players, um, state champions. The name of the team are the Cheetahs. A cheetah, uh, for those who don't know, is a spotted Harley-Davidson, uh, type of, uh, animal. And, uh, interestingly enough, this specific, uh, trophy, uh, was presented to Julia, no N on the end of it, Beard, my granddaughter. Thank you, Mayor. Congratulations to Julia. Councilmember Crosby. Thank you, Mayor. Um, I have a few announcements. First, I just wanted to remind everybody that right now we have a Friday night fun flicks going on at Jacobson Park, and those are free. And it's a great night to bring the family out to Jacobson Park. So I just wanted to make sure everybody was aware that those have started. Um, also, I wanted to thank, um, some of our people from the fire department. I think I got a little hoodwinked. I forgot to mention this last week. I thought... They had their state fire school in town, I guess a week ago, and there were firemen from all over the state. It was a really big event. And I thought they had invited all the councilmembers to come participate and go through their, um, state physical fitness test that they all have to take by 2013 so that we could empathize with what the firefighters are gonna have to go through. They're smiling in the back. Um, when I showed up, I found out that I was the one that they had invited to go through the test to see how difficult it is. And I think they were trying to get a perspective of a female for some of the female firefighters to see if they could pass it. And, um, I will say to some of my male colleagues, just hope that this place doesn't catch on fire and you go down because I evidently cannot drag 160-pound male. So anyway, uh, thank you so much. And next time, um, I'm gonna bring someone else with me. Thank you. Thank you. Councilmember Henson. Thank you, Mayor. I've just got a couple of meeting announcements. Um, next Monday, June 29th, there will be a public meeting regarding the Sugar Mill Stormwater Project, uh, seven o'clock at the Revival Tabernacle Church on Frizzell Road. And then on Tuesday, June 30th at seven o'clock, there will be a public meeting. Uh- ... regarding the Red Mile, um, proposed Red Mile development and that will take place at the clubhouse of the Red Mile. Thank you, Mayor. Thanks. Council Member Martin. Thank you, Mayor. Uh, tonight, the Southland Jamboree, uh, is gonna be held again at 7:00 PM at the, uh, Collins Bowling Center, home of the big bowling ball in the sky on Southland Drive. Uh, the Bluegrass Journeymen will be playing traditional bluegrass and gospel music. This is fantastic. That is really fun over there and they have a great time. And a lot of times folks will get together with their guitars and banjos and standup bass and just keep playing through the night af- after the, after the, the main show is over. Uh, I also wanna remind folks that the, uh, Farmers Market in Southland is gonna be, again, each Sunday, but this Sunday and every Sunday, 11:00 AM to 3:00 PM, uh, on Southland Drive and in front of Sloan's Market there. Um, on a personal note, I'm going to, uh, North Carolina to pick up my son on Friday that I haven't seen in three weeks. So he's nine years old and he's been three weeks at camp. So thank you, Mayor. Thanks. Council Member James. Thanks, Mayor. I just have one update. Um, council members, you've probably been receiving emails regarding the WILLS Transportation paratransit and, um, since we started talking about that and, um, as part of the Disabilities Commission, Council Member Hinson and I have decided to bring forward to the Disabilities Commission an opportunity for, um, a public meeting, a public conversation to talk about what are the issues, how can we make the system better, um, how can we get in clear communication from WILLS, um, as well as LexTran about what the problems are, the solutions and such. The Disabilities Commission meets tomorrow, um, at nine o'clock. This has not passed through. This will be a proposal that we'll be submitting to the commission and asking for their support. Um, but I do invite you or your legislative aides to attend the meeting if you have information you'd like to submit, um, regarding any of the concerns that you've had from your constituents and constituents as well. This is a public meeting. It happens, um, every month and the meeting is held at nine o'clock at the Central Library on Main Street. It's nine o'clock on the fourth floor. Is that right, Peggy? It's the fourth floor? I think so. Fourth floor, nine o'clock. Usually it lasts a couple of hours, hour and a half or so, but please know that w- this is an issue that we want to take on. Um, Council Member Hinson and I at least have spoken some to some of the commission members and they are in support of this and basically it would just be a conversation about what are the concerns, how can we get those answered and putting some kind of procedure in place to make sure that we're doing what we're supposed to be doing as far as our paratransit. So open o- um, invitation to you. Thank you. Thank you. Does any other council member wish to report? All right, I just have a couple of things. First of all, um, I have, uh, asked the folks in the administration to start the process of filling the vacancies that were, uh, funded in the budget. So if you all, uh, are aware of folks who may be interested in seeking employment with LFUCG that may be appropriate for one or more of those positions that were funded, but have heretofore been vacant, um, tell them to be watching the postings on the website and as we can, as soon as we can work through those, those will be popping up and we'll welcome qualified applicants. Also, Council Member Wallace asked about the status of library audit last, um, work session and I wanted to let everybody know, uh, uh, I asked, uh, Mr. Kelly who's on the audit board to check and it is their policy not to comment on the status of audits until they are released. So I don't have any information for you about, uh, when it might be completed, but I did wanna let you know they continue to forge ahead. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. You're welcome. All right. Um, any comment on issues not on the agenda? Mr. Cobb, do you wish to speak today? Thank you. Thank you, Mayor. First, giving honor to the Most High. I'm a movement by myself, but I'm a force when we're together. Grateful for another opportunity to speak. I'm wondering i- if you even watched my movie, Mayor, that I asked you to watch. Do you know the name of it, my movie? Does anybody on the council know the name of my movie? Thank you. You Can't Stop the Shine, and that's not my personal shine, that's everybody's shine. Um, when the people come from the world to see Lexington, I'm gonna be shining. It may not look like it now, but I'm gonna be shining. What are they gonna find in Lexington when they come here? They gonna find a city full of other fagotry, other homosexuality downtown, Mayor, but I'm gonna be shining. We got a moral decision to make today. Do we wanna live or do we wanna die? The choice is ours. I wanna live. I wanna please the Most High. We gotta make a decision today to put our personal agendas aside. I could have every woman in the city, but I wanna please the Most High, so I'm waiting on Him. Th- things are gonna start happening around us and we're not gonna believe it. You're not fighting against me, you're fighting against a moral, righteous holy father. And Lexington is not one of the best cities. Lexington is a city based on racism. Surviving off of that, and we're gonna have to change it 'cause it's gonna be destroyed. I'm not your enemy. I'm just a voice crying in the wilderness. We're gonna have to change. He's not gonna let us men hold hands on the streets, in front of kids, across from a fountain. He's not gonna let that keep going on. We might be doing it for a while, but there's a day we're gonna have to answer for our actions. I ask everybody on the council to support my cause. We all got shoes. I got people waiting to shine. We do shirts. We wash cars. We clean out Herbie Curby's. We do it all. I need everybody's help. 'Cause I'm gonna be shining when the world comes here. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Mr. Cobb. Does anybody else wish to address the council? That will close the public comment section. Council Member Lawless? May I make a comment? Um, I'm sorry, and, um, I certainly respect Mr. Cobb's point of view, but there's no other group that, that kind of, um, derogatory hate speak would be allowed in these chambers. And... And, I would appreciate that that not be allowed anymore. Um, Council Member Lawless, I would, uh, suggest that it might be appropriate for us to, um, discuss that in some length. It is very difficult to figure out how to, um, how to, um, in effect censor what people are gonna say when they comment on issues that are not on the agenda. I don't particularly care for a lot of what I have heard, um, in this particular segment of the, of the agenda. But, um, as long as it's not defamatory or, um, uh, injurious to public safety, I suspect there's a right of folks to say what's on their mind, unfortunately, in some instances. So, um, if, if anybody can figure out some guidelines for, um, improving the situation, I'll welcome them. But there, it's a very, very difficult, uh, line to strike. I need to speak out on it too. Um, before Council Member Lawless was, uh, elected to the council, of course, I got the, I received the same comments regularly. And, um, and, um, listened and accepted it, as many who are gay do accept and listen to that sort of talk without, um, speaking out. Um, and in re- in looking back at it, that was a mistake, um, on my part. So I thank you for speaking out. Um, it was, uh, Martin Luther King who said a long time ago that, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." And so we need to be mindful of it on this council as well, even as we are patient with all points of view. Thank you, Mayor. Council Member Lane. Uh, I thank you, Mayor. I think that the council's been very tolerant of, uh, the comments that Mr. Cobb has made in the past. And frankly, my patience has worn out and I'd like to make a motion that we bar Mr. Cobb from speaking before council. So move. Do I hear a second? Motion will die for lack of second. Um, Council Member Crosby? Yeah, I just have a question, um, regarding comments made by individuals in the audience. At what point is it appropriate? Because as you mentioned today, Mayor, it wasn't necessarily directed, you know, it was more of a global type, um, comments, um, as, uh, terrible as they were. But we have sat in here before and we have heard, you know, um, council members who are no longer even on council get personally attacked by members of the audience that, you know, nobody stopped them. And so at what point, you know, do we step in or can we stop somebody? And I think that's where we need to maybe define what is appropriate and not appropriate. Um, I agree with you that there is a fine line between letting the public comment on items not on the agenda. I don't agree with them in a lot of cases, and I would share everybody's, everybody's point of view with my tolerance with one person in particular. However, um, you know, w- on many occasions when it's taken a personal tone, I've heard, even not directed at myself, I have more than once gone to try and hit my microphone to chime in. And, you know, when do, whose responsibility is that to interrupt and say that's not appropriate? Or, or how can we define that something's not appropriate? And maybe our law department can help us with this because... Mayor. Um, let's, let's hear from, um, Mr. Askew, and then we'll figure out where we go from there. I think it's a matter of council rule. Uh, there is not a requirement that you have public comment. Uh, if you choose to have it, the way it, the council rules are presently established, it is pretty general. ... and what Councilman Stennet offered today because, you know, we've had this issue about the five minute versus the three minute, but the terms of what people can discuss is not a part of the council rule. But I think that you can, um, you know, if you wanna try to define that a little bit more about what is appropriate and what's not, uh, we can attempt to do that. I'm not sure about the line drawing and how we get to that. But again, you're not required to have the comment, so... But by council rule, you have it. Okay, wait a minute, I'm a little confused. We're not required to do this, but... It's a part of your council rule. The agenda is set in your council rules for- But we can define... Yes. So, we could possibly put into committee how we wanna define public comment? If you want to amend that rule, that's probably the appropriate pra- place for it to be. Is to make an amendment? Uh, defer, the parliamentarian may have some thoughts on that. The only issue that we have dealt with is the five-minute versus the three-minute, and also some of the matters that Councilman Member James is working on. Yeah. I, I mean, I guess the question comes into, um, people and their First Amendment rights and their, you know, I mean, that's really what it boils down to, is... Well, if you're going to have public comment and you start drawing the lines, that's where you might run into a problem. And I can't sit here today and tell you what you can and can't do, but I can tell you that you don't have to have the public comment section. But it would be appropriate to perhaps put that in committee because you do have a number of folks that will come up here, and there have been comments that have... Uh, I understand what everybody's saying 'cause I've heard them too. Mr. Parliamentarian, did you have something- Well, I was just gonna add, um, we do have a rules in place that can address this issue without us having to identify and define what comments can or cannot be said. One would be the du- not to put pressure on the mayor, but the duty of any chair of any meeting to stop the comment and/or a council member can make a motion to also censor the comments being made or call to order. And, and then, if we upheld that motion, we can move on or limit the time at any time. So, we can change the time. There's a number of things we can do through Robert's Rules that can accomplish the same thing for decorum. We just need to start enacting them. And, uh, I know we've done it once or twice in the past on council comments that become personal attacks, uh, against council members. I've heard racial comments before up here. I mean, we've heard a lot in the last six years since I've been on council, and we have stopped it on two occasions. This occasion, we did not, but, uh, it would have been appropriate to call, call to order and ask the chair to, to, to stop the comments. And we can. We can do that. I think if we get into a process of trying to define in our rules, it's gonna become very subjective quickly about- Agreed. But you, let me, let me, if I might echo that, if what... Council Member Stennet, yes, if somebody wanted to interrupt somebody here or wanted to interrupt a council member, and I'm wanting to familiar with some of those comments you're talking about, the council could then vote to terminate that person's comments at that time. A- and I suppose the process would be somebody would raise a point of order, this comment is inappropriate, the chair would conclude either it is or it isn't, then the group could appeal that decision if they were offended by it. Or somebody could move to stop it. We could look into that a little bit more with Council Member Stennet and bring something forward if you'd like. I think that would probably be a good idea. I mean, I wouldn't wanna limit people or, or try to define what's appropriate or not appropriate because what may be inappropriate to me may p- be perfectly appropriate to Council Member Lane. So, I mean, I think that would be s- e- extremely difficult to define. It would be. However, uh, it, it, it sounds like we already have rules in place, and we do it to each other all the time, point of order, m- when it seems to be going off track that that might be the more appropriate way. And maybe if we could just have, uh, Kevin bring something forward or, and give us all some tools that we can utilize. You know, and I think sometimes too, we all wanna be so polite to people and give them their fair time that we forget that we do have that right to be able to... Well, and I'm satisfied Lexington's not the only place this has happened, so I'm sure there's, we can look and see how other folks deal with it as well. Thank you. I'm done, Mayor. Thank you. And Mayor, if I can add in there to what Council Member Crosby said. In the rules I passed out last week, you know, it specifically says every council member, this is just referring to shall confine him or herself to the questions, shall not use unbecoming or abusive language, and shall avoid dealing in personalities. Now, there are times when, when that's not adhered to, I mean, amongst this body, but you shouldn't deal in personalities and use th- and that, that could fall under public comment. We can add that language probably to public comment very easily. Council Member Martin. Thank you, Mayor. I, I have no idea what Councilman Stennet is referring to, but, uh, we, we are nothing but- I think you got an email and a memo last week regarding CRP, the Council Rules and Procedures. Mayor, we've been fortunate that these types of, of comments have been rare in this room, and probably particularly since I have been on the council. Um, free speech is a bedrock of our country, but, but defamatory and derogatory language of these types crosses the line. And I agree with an effort to give the council some ability to censor individuals for defamatory or d- derogatory language, uh, particularly for a limited period of time. I think, uh, the, the reason I didn't support Council Member Lane's motion is 'cause I, I didn't wanna deprive this individual of, on a permanent basis of his ability to make comments to the council, but I cer- certainly think it would be inappropriate to, to do so for a limited period of time as a, as a way to, uh, um, um, to, to remind folks of, uh, that, that this is a, uh, um- ... a, a body in which, uh, the council members are entitled to respect in which we re- expect, uh, folks to, uh, uh, to not u- use this type of language. So I guess I would support a, um, a, I guess, a request for the law department to, uh, look at, at what type of amendment to the council rules we could do to, uh, we could make to, uh, to g- give the council a sort of explicit right to, to censor individuals, uh, even on a temporary basis for a defamatory or derogative language of this type. So thank you, Mayor. Council member Gorton. Thank you, Mayor. Uh, Council member Lawless, thank you for bringing this up. Um, just to put it in perspective, um, a little bit of perspective, um, when I first came on the council, um, last century - ... um , we did not have two opportunities for public comment. The council changed its own rules along the way. And, um, when I think about I'm, I'm certainly a strong proponent of free speech and the right of people to come down here and speak. Um, but in times past, we have asked that people who speak, speak on the issues that we're dealing with. We're here for a council work session, and so perhaps one of the things we ought to do along with looking at any kind of rules, uh, Council member Martin mentio- mentioned, um, uh, I've forgotten the term you used, not centering, but, uh, uh, just some kind of, um, l- looking at that, I think we should also consider whether we actually need two public comment times, because we are a very open government. People have an opportunity to email us, to phone call us, to appear on our doorstep at 7:00AM if they choose, which has happened to me. Um, they can catch us at meetings. There are lots of opportunities, so I would hope we would also look at whether the appropriate public comment at work sessions is on the agenda items. Um, and also in the past, I know that, um, all mayors, and I believe including our current mayor, have taken the opportunity during the meeting to say to the person speaking, "This is out of order," and that stops it. So I think there are lots of options. Council member Blues. Thank you, Mayor. I, uh, I, I do think that, that if we, um, you know, if we allow as we do, uh, a- an open mic so that the public can come forward and speak on, on, on any subject. And as we know, we get lectured on a number of them, and I think this is the first time we've, we've, we've, we've heard such contemptible nonsense, uh, uh, as, as we've heard today in quite some time. Well, ... some time. Well, in a, uh, in any event, uh, and I think that, that today's response, uh, to it on part of the council has been, has been appropriate. We should rebuke and re- repudiate, uh, uh, such, such talk when we hear it. But I would agree also with, uh, with Council member Gordon, that we may want to review the question of, of whether we do want to provide an open mic for any topic, uh, any subject at the, whether at the beginning or the end of, of council, of council work sessions. And, uh, and, and, uh, and as you say, the- uh, there are many, many opportunities for the public to express his views with reference to, uh, uh, to what we should or shouldn't be, shouldn't be doing. Thank you, Mayor. Council member Baird. I guess my problem with, uh, this whole situation is, is that, uh, it doesn't look like the gentleman is going to change any time in the near future. Um, I don't know whether it would be appropriate or not to try to send him a message continually by doing 180 in our chairs and, and just turning our backs on him and see if, um, that works. Uh, he, he may explode, but at the same time, I don't care to sta- sit here and listen to that type of, uh, of, of, of conversation from him. Um, you know, and he always k- kind of tags it with a religious connotation also, which, um, makes the- maybe makes things a little more problematic as far as censoring him is concerned. Um, I don't know, uh, Logan, whether, uh, the ACLU is going to be saddling up their horses and ready to ready to come down and see what we're gonna do or not, but, um, you know, that's always a possibility. Um, not that I fear the ACLU by any means, but, um, it , a- again, we have to get a message across to him, in my opinion, that, uh, that we just aren't gonna put up with it. And just saying it doesn't necessarily do it. It needs to be something more dramatic, I think. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you. Council member Lawless. Um, I've heard comments at the podium that were, um, personal opinions on homosexuality, and I never brought that up. Today's was, I felt- ... inflammatory in a community sense, rather than a personal attack, and I do not want to, um, turn my back on Mr. Cobb or keep him from speaking. But I do want to... uh, I would hope that when anybody speaks with what I cons- what I consider inflammatory comments about anybody, that the chair will interrupt that if, if that's legal. Now, if they wanna talk about what they believe in, hey, believe away. But when they're calling for action against any group of people and using derogatory terms, in my opinion, that is inflammatory and not something we as a community, um, should l- allow. I don't know. You know, there have been rulings on whether or not the Ku Klux Klan can march in parades, and so maybe I'm out of line. But I at least would like the opportunity when I hear something like that to be able to say, "You know, that's not okay." Thank you. Councilmember Crosby. Um, I would just like to say too that I, I would strongly, um, be an advo- advocate for keeping public comment. I know that there are a lot of other ways for, uh, the public to be able to communicate with us. I know we've heard email and, um, they can call us and things like that. But oftentimes, I know that, uh, it's invaluable for people who come down here to be able to get all of us at one time and to have that face-to-face interaction. And oftentimes, we can control if they try to call our office whether or not we'll meet with them or we'll even hear what kind of issue they might have. And so, that is their one opportunity in front of us. Um, so I w- I would strongly encourage that we don't do away with the public comment. I think it's important to us as a body a- and also to our community to be able to come down here and be heard in some fashion. And I just wanted to make that point. Thank you. Councilmember James. Thanks, Mayor. I agree with Councilmember Crosby. We, we should not look at eliminating public comment. I mean, that's... The citizens are why we're here. We can look at maybe defining, um, the structure of that. Um, and so at this point, I, I, I'm gonna plug again the work that Councilmember Meyers, um, and my staff did, related to the Tuesday work session. Um, again, opportunity to revisit that again. We've gotta look at that structure, look at what we're trying to accomplish. The work session is not by charter. It is an addition. Is it even useful? And, uh, that's why it's not working. That's why we're having flaws, because it's not even s- practical for our legislative process. So that's why we have difficulty with dealing with it. So, no elimination. If every opportunity we get to sit around here, uh, this is not a social club. We are here representing our citizens, and they should have the opportunity to speak. If we need to look at a structure to make sure that it's headed towards something, let's look at that. And we've got some documents I can share with you. Again, the work session and changing that to a Committee of the Whole so that we make it more effective if that's, if that's something you wanna look at again. But we're always gonna have problems until we fix it. Thanks. Councilmember Feigl. Thank you, Mayor. Um, I too would not support giving up the, um, public comments on the agenda because I, I think that there are fewer people who come in and abuse it than those who truly come in to talk to this council about issues that the city, uh, involving the city that they are not happy about. And I wouldn't wanna take that away from them. Um, my experience has been, unfortunately, that, um, the, the presiding, um, uh, officer, um, is actually the one who is charged with making those calls. And sometimes it's very difficult to make those calls. It's hard to anticipate what's gonna come out of somebody's mouth. But when you know, um, when you hear something that you know is going in the wrong direction, I think it's appropriate to gavel that person, give them a warning. And if they continue at that, to that point, then they can be escorted out. Uh, but I think before we have public comment, it's always helpful to give the audience some guidelines on how they are to, um, comport themselves at the podium. And I think that would eliminate a lot of the problems. So, um, I would not be supportive of taking away the, um, the, um, public comments on the agenda. I, I do think it can be handled in a different way now that we know that this is a problem. B- because before today even, there have been other issues that have been mentioned at that podium that I was a little troubled about and nobody said anything about them. N- none of the other councilmembers object- objected, and I didn't object either. But, uh, I, there have been other occasions where other issues were brought up that were philosophical kinds of issues. And, um, I just feel like that we need to make that very clear from the, from the get-go when, when people, um, rise up to, to speak to items not on the agenda. They need to have some guidelines, and we need to follow through with, uh, having them stick to those guidelines. Thank you. Councilmember McCord. Thank you, Mayor. You know, uh, I think that, um, as we've talked around this, there's... We, we kind of recognize, as Councilmember Stennet pointed out, we don't necessarily need to change rules or divine, define what people can and can't say, that we have the ability to call a point of order that it's not necessarily the chair's responsibility, it's all of our responsibility. And years, two years ago, uh, some comments were made directed, uh, directly at the vice mayor. And, and, uh, you know, I sat here extremely uncomfortable. And, and, uh, you know, Vice Mayor, you said, you know, you probably made a mistake by not saying something. And I say that I made a mistake by not saying something that night, and all, all of us did. Um, because w- Y- you know what's right and wrong. I mean, we all do. And we know when the line's being crossed and, and when we get past a public comment that's issues related and, and so forth. And it's troubling because, you know, we're public figures and people can say whatever they want to about us, and we don't have any recourse to that. And that's what we sign up for, but, uh, at the end of the day, I think, um, uh, you know, a respectful tone towards, uh, towards the people at that mic, as well as people sitting behind this dais is, is really what, uh, what's needed. And, um, you know, I would certainly be, uh, the first now to, when that line is crossed, to call point of order. And I think that's, uh, that's really what's being do- being said here. It's, it's one of those things where, um, you know, it, it, it's about being respectful and, and, um, uh, you know, it's about us dropping the ball, uh, ev- every one of us for not, not speaking up. W- we may not have known that we had the ability to do that, but now we know, and, uh, and I think this body can be empowered by that. And we don't have to infringe upon anybody's First Amendment rights or have to really change too much to our procedures in that. Well, based upon the conversation I've heard, until there's some change in the rules, I'm going to assume that the same rules apply to the audience that apply to us, which is there's not to be the personal attacks. There's not to be the ... I don't remember the exact language, but, uh, uh, obscene language or whatever, unbecoming language. And, um, I don't particularly relish the thought of trying to enforce that standard. I will tell you, I am going to defer broadly to what people wanna say when they stand there. But if, to the extent, um, some member of the council believes what's being said is unbecoming or, uh, in the nature of a personal attack that's inappropriate, then raise a point of order, and we'll deal with it as a group. Is that satisfactory for the time being? All right. We'll proceed on that basis. I think there's a motion now, Council Member Henson. I mo- uh, I move pursuant to KRS61.8101C to go into closed session for the purpose of discussing litigation involving the Irwin County government and KRS61.8101B for the purpose of discussing a real property acquisition. A closed session is necessary on the real property matter, because publicity at this stage would be likely to affect the value of the property in question. We have a motion by Council Member Henson and a second by Council Member Crosby that would go into closed session for the reasons specified. Any discussion? All in favor, please say aye. Aye. All opposed, no. Motion carries.